Dude. You just posted a 2663 word response in a BLOG.
(yes I actually checked it)
If you wanna spout your life story, start your own fucking roll.
Oh I usually post them to get feedback about what I could have done better, and the feedback I’ve gotten here has really helped me. But yeah, is there a policy or preference against posting FR’s here?
Truth can eat my shit. Keep posting. You’re one of the only guys in this comment section with the balls to go out and improve your life instead of circle-jerking keyboard theory and whining about immigrants and lefties. Mad respect for ya on my end and you have solid writing skills so they’re good reads!
“and…well….in the moment, I thought this set wasn’t going that well (I know, I know).”
I’m swamped with work this week but I’ll be back as soon as I figure out how to bitchslap you through the Internet for this part lol good stuff dude. I’ll do up your last FR too and link it all.
And happy belated bday!
FR — >
Had two options, go to big event at a nightclub or hang with some friends. Had a big red pill moment. I foolishly chose to hang out with these friends. I figure, ya, cool man…they’re naturals/good with girls/blah blah blah. So, my friend AFCRog gets in the car and then we go to their house to ‘plan’ the night. AFCRog is in an annoyed mood, and I’m like ‘what’s wrong?’ He shakes his head ‘this is going to just suck. we’re going to end up doing something lame with their dates.’
His prophecy came true. These guys took us to play bingo. Now, remember when I said I get ‘pushback’ from this group. That’s definitely true. Like, these natural guys hold themselves out as being dominant, awesome, etc. But idk, this forever changed my view of them. One of them, probably the ‘best,’ natural is with HB6Asian…but only because he couldn’t keep another girl, HB8.5. And it hits me…I’ve seen this over and over with him. While it’s true he may hook up with the occassional HB7+, those are always short-term. What he can keep around are always HB5-6′s (full disclosure, a lot of people disagree with me about HB6Asian being a 6…but meh, idk…I think she’s a 6…others think lower).
And I take a good honest look at them. Like, the AryanTall is a really tall, pretty good looking guy. His girlfriend — while really feminine and nice — is, y’know…kinda chunky…maybe like a 5.5. I look at the other one, and his girl — while really feminine as well — is just…well, he doesn’t like her very much and just can’t leave her.
And here we all are, playing bingo. So….my other friend that I’m doing this project with — Nightly (previously FatBoy lol) keeps txting me like ‘wtf are you doing, wtf is wrong with you, CLUB CLUB CLUB!’ I know he’s right. So, after wasting an hour of Friday night….I just announce at the end of the game that I’m outtie. They pull a bunch of the usual stuff against me — first they try to shame me, then the try to ignore me. But more and more my inner emotion is becoming ‘lol.’ Me and AFCRog bounce (they stayed to play more bingo…lol).
AFCRog has a near red pill moment. He says he wants to bang some girl within our social circle who’s probably a 4.5, and I respond by saying that ‘ya might be tough, she has high standards.’ And he’s like ‘what HOW DO YOU KNOW?’ And I was like ‘just hearing how she talks about guys in general, she’s pretty harsh…I mean, I dunno.’
Then he goes on this rant: “Fucking girls are such a stupid race of people! How inflated can your self-worth get? These bitches need someone to tell them that their life is shit, and I’m gonna be that guy.”
For a second I ponder letting him in on the project, but then he goes on to say that he thinks gender roles are stupid and societally defined or whatever. So then I just inwardly lol and keep my mouth shut. I tell him that he should come to the club instead….then he goes on some sort of ‘what’s the point’ spiel.
I’m done with it. I drop him off and head to the club to salvage what of the night I can.
I get to the club…say hi to the people I know. One of the girls in my social circle — a really nice, feminine, but chunky 4.5 — that I just do the whole ‘flirt mercillessly’ thing with is there. But hurro, she brought her HB6Lovely friend. And the first thing 4.5 does is just like……..hug me, play with my hair, talk about how she loves me, which kind of immediately sets the frame for HB6Lovely to just be like ‘ya do mind if we just gangbang you right here.’ It was kind of a whirlwind few seconds, because HB6Lovely also starts touching me — while 4.5 seems drunk, HB6Lovely seems to have had a drink or two — and suggesting getting a picture kissing me. Then after that, they girlcode and decide they’re gonna go to another club. They invite me, but I decline. It’s not like I’m not going to see HB6Lovely again. I’ve got cold approachin’ to do.
Nightly is at the club…however, Nightly is drunk. Great. Nightly is also hanging out with another dude who seems solid, but probably anti-game. So, Nightly opens a girl, and Anti-Game starts talking to the girl. I lol to myself and quickly distract Anti-Game while Nightly does his thing. As soon as I get Anti-Game away from Nightly’s set, I use the 3 second rule. I’ve decided to change it up…
Now, I’m viewing the entire first few seconds as actually establishing rapport. Not necessarily deep rapport, but definitely ‘shoot the shit with this guy’ rapport, which is why breaking it later has an effect. That’s the theory, anyway, and why I’m starting to get why multiple threads/stacking is important.
3 second rule followed, first set nothing special, two 5.5′s past their prime:
Me: Hey, I can only stay a second but can I get your opinion on something…
Them (now they routinely turn toward me and want to hear)
Me: (acting surprised) Wow I can tell you guys care about one another, you all turned at the exact same time….
Them (they look at one another and chuckle)
Me: Yeah, friends usually have similar body language, and you guys are mirroring one another.
Them: yeah, we’re friends, blah blah blah
Me: Well since I’ve been here, two girls have asked me for weed…
Me: YEAH, Weed! So I mean, do I look like a drug dealer?
Them: Well, hm, I don’t….no…
Left 5.5 — Well, turn around…turn around…
Me (don’t know how to disobey the command verbally and in a cool way, so instead, I just…eh…’flamboyantly’ turn)
Left 5.5 – Yeah, NO — cause a drug dealer wouldn’t turn around like a ballerina! (right 5.5 laughs)
Me: (laughs) Is that fucking right? (turn to right 5.5) Blah blah blah hairdresser…
Right 5.5: No…
Me: Oh yeah…friend…blah blah blah…are you crazy? she’s crazy….
Right 5.5: (chuckles) No…
I take a step back, then wag my finger at the Left 5.5.
Me: No, SHE’S the really crazy one out of the two of you…I can tell. Like, if we were in a relationship and I inevitably cheated on you, you’d probably stab me, whereas you (indicating Right 5.5) would just yell at me or something.
Left 5.5: Psh. I would cut your dick off.
(This time I’m better prepared)
Me: Well, would you like just put it in the garbage or in the blender and make it into a dickshake you would drink so that NO ONE COULD EVER HAVE MY DICK AGAIN?!?!?!?!
Left 5.5: (kind of recoils with smirk) Uh, I would put it in the blender but I wouldn’t…
Me (makes gurgly nomnomonom slurp slurp noises) mwahahahahaha I drank the last of his dick forevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar.
Right 5.5 laughs and shakes her head.
Left 5.5 suddenly goes to the bar to get a drink, leaving me and Right 5.5.
Me: Now it’s just me and you…
Right 5.5: Well she’s going to be right back
Me: ME AND YOU FOREVER. ALWAYS…
Right 5.5 (obviously I didn’t smile big enough because she kind of lets out a nervous laugh….so instead, I just turn and look over at her)
Me: Hey, I’m gonna be you right now. This is you. This is how you look.
(I just kinda stand there holding my drink…she likes that)
Me (realizing I don’t have much else to say…I just shift down into smaller talk…goddammit Scray)
Blah blah blah….soon enough she goes to join her friend at the bar. I make a mental note that the only way I’m going to be able to get them to stick around and not leave is if I build some type of attraction.
Nightly opens a set…some late 30′s woman with two other friends. I immediately move in to distract the obstacles. We kinda keep anti-game out of the equation. I’m doing my thing, distracting her friends, when he’s like ‘oh is this guy bothering you? he’s drunk, he’s drunk!’ At first I’m like lol am I getting Amogged off these ugly cougars. Then he whispers ‘….and they’re ugly, I made a big mistake, eject, eject!’ So I’m out.
Next set, 7.5 with wedding veil, 7 just standing there, leaning against a couch, buzzed 5.5, and some fat guy in the circle with them. Here we go.
I do the opener….my approach has me standing a little close to the 7, but whatever. I go through the material….do the girl coding thing. Somewhere during the middle of this interaction, I introduce Nightly — ‘this is my best friend, he saved my life once, smartest guy I know…’ and he occupies wedding girl and fat guy
7: (flat) yeah we’re good friends, it’s her wedding.
Me: (to the bride to be or whatever) NICE! Congrats, enjoy that white dress while you can!
7 seems put off by me lol.
Me: (to the 7, indicating the 5), she’s the crazy one of the group eh?
7: I don’t know.
Me: (If I shall be blown out, I will go out guns a blazing) Hey, are you fucking crazy?
Me: You seem fucking insane!
5.5 (laughing) Noooooo, nooo way!
I actually forget this part of the interaction, but somehow, someway I was saying something and
5.5: ….blah blah…but I have asthma!
Me: (laughing) No shit, my ex-girlfriend had asthma! YOU CAN’T RUN FOR SHIT, BITCH!
7 makes an almost disgusted face, me and the 5.5 laugh and high five
7:…no, she ran a 10K last year, okay, she’s actually really good at –
Me: YOU RAN A 10K? HOLY SHIT YOU’RE SOME SORTA CYBORG! I RAN A 3K! FOR REAL! THAT’S SOOOO COOOL!
5.5 (laughing hard, high fives me again) You ran a 3K?! Nice! You’ll be running half marathons soon, that’s awesome
7 turns to me, bats eyes
7: Oh, you ran a 3k…that’s pretty cool…so you’re into running?
Me: Of course…I gotta outrun my exes, DUH
Set is now invaded by some other woman who pulls the girl in the wedding veil, who had been occupied by Nightly. The woman grabs wedding veil, who directs everyone else out of the set. They’re gone. I didn’t even get a name. Fuck. AGAIN.
That’s it for Friday.
We’re hanging out for a friend’s 29th birthday who can get us into some clubs for free. Sweet. Me and Nightly go up to the club.
Here’s what I’m starting to notice about the club scene —- truly hot girls are fairly rare. I mean, they’re in the club, but it seems like they’re almost always on the dancefloor. But I’d say at least 70% of the girls in the club are like…fat/chunky/unattractive. Whatever…
Me and Nightly quickly notice that friend’s entourage (we know a few of them) are just…well, AFC’s. They don’t talk to girls, they stand in a circle with their drinks held up to their waists. Whatever.
Nightly opens a two-set…I wait a few minutes, and then I come in stupid…addressing him instead of the set, which gives them a chance to just scurry away. So…probably too early and doing nothing to help him.
My turn — we’re in an outside area, it’s cold — I open a group of 4 girls. Target is a 6.5. I run through the stack, nothing seems to stick…one of the little girls keeps pushing me back toward the opener. When I get to the ‘ur crazy, if we were in a relationship you would…’ thing, this fat uggo tools me and says ‘wait, do u have weed?’
Me: All the world’s weed
Me: Okay, I don’t even know what that is.
Her: WELL THEN GET THE FUCK OUT!
They laugh. Inwardly I just have to roll with the punch. I eject soon enough.
We go inside…Nightly opens a two-set. I go in to distract the obstacle immediately because he got them while they were walking. I notice that the obstacle is pretty cute…like a 6.5. She’s from Norway. HB6.5 Norway (she’d be an easy 7 is she lost like 10 pounds — why is everyone so fat lol).
I run the stack on her, it seems to go well, she laughs, she leans in to hear what I’m saying. She wants to find someplace to sit, so I just have her sit on this counter with bars (the booths cost money).
After awhile, I start to just think she’s polite, which is why she laughs and leans in and blah blah blah. Because I’m just not getting very far with it.
I run out of my stack when we’re sitting there, so I just attempt to riff.
‘So tell me your life story in five words or less.’
Her: (laughing) No, this is impossible..no…
‘Just do it you wuss…’
Her: No, No, I cannot.
I just fall silent then….she resumes conversation
Her: Why don’t you do this?
Me: My life story in five words?
Me: Awesome, Fun, Party, Boning, Blowjobs.
Me: All right, your turn.
Her: No, I still don’t think I can do this.
I fall silent again. She thinks…finally she says stuff. I don’t remember…
Her: Something, something, love, no regrets.
At around this time, where I’m struggling to get her attracted or put my best foot forward, or whatever, a few of our buddies show up. To our horror, they are the most anti-gamers who ever anti-gamed. One charges through to Nightly’s target
‘WHAT’S YOUR OCCUPATION?!’ said like a maximum chode.
Our other friend comes over to me and HB6.5Norway and I introduce him, accomplishment style. He stands there and starts to dance. I say he won a regional dance competition, and HB6.5Norway seems interested. So, I figure…hey, if this girl isn’t into me, maybe she’ll be into him.
He immediately contradicts the story, then refuses to dance, despite our urgings. Norway says she likes Interpol, to which I say I hate her and tell her to go away (the whole roleplay thing got laughs from her but like…when she went away, I was actually worried she wouldn’t come back, and she only slowly came back)
My friend on the other hand gets in her face like ‘hey, how could he hate you, you’re so beautiful.’ She recoils….I start to think their presence could be a huge DLV for both me and Nightly.
Norway keeps asking for somewhere to sit…she asks if outside has somewhere to sit. Friend says ‘yeah maybe’ and then she leaves. Of course when she goes outside, Nightly’s target follows. Then, they both come back cause it’s cold out there, then they talk to these guys who paid probably 1000 dollars to sit in a booth, and they let them sit with them.
Phuck. Set busted.
next club has more talent.
I follow 3 second rule and open a girl…she’s older, probably early mid 30′s and probably like a 6. She’s unfortunately on her phone. I say what I say, she doesn’t respond. Time to get blown out. I wave my hand over her phone and she looks up, agitated. I try to smile and say ‘hey can I get your opinion on something?’ She just flatly says ‘no.’ Lol. Moving on.
Next set is the first hawt girl I’ve seen all night. Like 7.5-8. I go over there. There’s a guy and a girl in a wedding veil there. So I open all of them. It goes fine. Then, she says she’s from the country and that she hunts.
Me: I hunt with a bow and arrow only.
Wedding girl: I’m calling bullllshiiiiiit
Guy: Gotta agree
Wedding girl: What do you do when you kill your prey?
Me: I fucking leave it there.
Wedding girl: YOU’RE NOT A HUNTER AT ALL!
Me: I HUNT TO INSPIRE TERROR IN MY ENEMIES AND LOYALTY IN MY FOLLOWERS!
They laugh at that
Me: Watch out guys, apparently I just ran into the night club’s game warden. No one cap a deer and leave a carcass on her watch.
Wedding girl laughs….I start talking to Hawt girl….I do the whole ‘you’re a hairdresser, you’re crazy’ and she seems -laughingly- shocked at being called crazy, at stabbing me, etc. But then she’s like ‘yeah i’m from the country so yeah….’
Some guy comes and does the -right- thing and sits next to her on the couch. Fuck. Good move, rival to the game. I wonder where Nightly is to wing my set. He’s behind me, talking to one of our friends. I’m wondering…wtf.
Hawt girl asks if I’m from the city, and I say yeah. She says she’s going to school here to be a nurse. I tell her about my program, and she’s impressed. I also say that an ex was a nurse blah blah blah, we can’t get along. She laughs.
She lets slip that she has a fiance and shows off the ring. Fuck. I could eject, but I dunno. I think she’s kind of into me. I mean, I dunno. I stick it out. The guy next to her actually chimes in, tells her he’s in the army.
Get this, hawt girl uses my exact line on HIM! Like, ‘oh we can’t be friends because my fiance is in the army.’
An awkward minute passes as I figure out how to change this situation.
Then finally I say to the guy ‘hey, now none of us can be friends you asshole, goddammit!’
This pulls her attention back to me. I notice that whenever I break rapport with her, she’s quick to seek it out with any of the other — now it’s three/four — guys around her. FUCK. Where is my wingman?!?!!?!? it’s not like she knew any of those guys. Anyway, soon enough, a friend of hers comes and takes her away. And I’m left in the cold again.
I turn to Nightly…and he’s like ‘dude, trust me…anti-game here was going to be a horrible obstacle, he kept saying that he wanted to talk to the girl you were talking to and help out. trust me.’
Whatevs….just move on.
Nightly has been fixated on this woman and has called her ‘hot’ all night. She’s okay…like a 6, but she’s clearly past her prime. So my job is to distract her fat mohawk friend…and let me just say…yck.
So here we go. I do that. It’s terrible. I try to engage her in conversation and stuff, but she’s one of these fatties who has high self-worth. What can you do with that? lol. I just sort of try to be her friend, but she’s real stand-offish about it. Anyway, I just have to distract until her bf arrives.
Then, later Nightly goes outside with this woman. I have to distract a chode who comes out there to talk with them. Easy enough. Long story short, Nightly wants to stay there and pursue this woman at like 4 in the morning. Reality check: she has a 20 year old kid. She’s divorced. She’s not worth it. He goes over there and tries to talk with her one last time, then just comes back — I don’t know what happened. We leave.
One of our anti-game friends got real cozy with a 4 ‘cougar.’ He seemed to be really proud of that. He showed off a txt she sent him about her making him wet. Me and Nightly looked between one another and were like ‘that’s awesome dude, get it wet.’ As soon as we dropped them off though, I’m like ‘dude………..we have no choice. we HAVE to try this….or that’s our lives. right there.’
I guess I’m just gonna have to stack more routines, maybe work on body language shit I’m missing. I dunno.
Amazing progress Scray. I’ve noticed you don’t comment on your physical aspect of the interactions. Is this part of your interactions yet or are you slowly adding that part in?
It’s hard for me to keep total track of my body language throughout the set. In general, I tend to stay facing away from the group for a little too long I think…even after people face me. As far as Kino goes….there isn’t much of it from me yet. I mean, I’m trying to add the ‘hand on shoulder when you laugh’ stuff when they laugh, but not much beyond that.
“I tend to stay facing away from the group for a little too long I think…even after people face me.”
Face them when they earn it. So if a girl says something funny (like the 3K girl high-fiving you) or complies with a hoop you want them to jump through, reward her with turning toward her and giving her your full attention and eye-contact etc. It’s weird how much of a difference this makes, but it does make a big one.
The problem is most guys go in facing the girl head on right away and she hasn’t done shit to earn it yet so he comes off as needy. She wants that challenge of like “okay here’s my 5 words to describe myself! Yay!! He turned to me, I won his approval!!”
“As far as Kino goes….there isn’t much of it from me yet.”
Don’t stress it too much yet, but try to work on it a bit. Right now there are like 50 different little categories of things you can work on, and if you go out trying to get better at all 50 things at once, you’re going to get overwhelmed and fuck up a bunch. But if each night out you take 1-3 things and just be like “okay, tonight I’m going to work on leading and cutting into her space” and that’s your main focus for each set for the night, you’ll slowly build each of these things up.
Baby steps. But watch that video for some SUPER useful advice/tips.
“go to big event at a nightclub or hang with some friends.”
Always go to the nightclub. I learned it the hard way with my own bingo-night equivalents myself lol I’m happy to hang out with a couple beers and pizza and play X-Box with my buddies…on a Tuesday night. On a Fri/Sat night? Fuck that. There’s gorgeous chicks and fun adventures out there.
My main Natural buddy and I have rules like we NEVER bring chicks out with us, even if it’s some chick we’re trying to bang. Don’t bring bread to the bakery. Hook up with her at 2am if nothing pans out, or hang out with her on a Tuesday. Or get it done BEFORE the bar and send her home early enough to go out and find new girls lol
“These guys took us to play bingo.”
lol’ed so hard when I read that. Like I say, I’ve been in similar situations. I’ve had points where I’ve literally left halfway through whatever gayness and been like “lol this was fun and I love you guys but I’m young and single and there are titties out there that need motorboating, so I gotta’ jet. You all have fun, peace!”
It’s part of why I hate house parties lol They’re always a few average girls with 5 orbiters each begging for her attention all night while everyone gets shitfaced and I’m like “man, I would rather be sober and at a club right now, this is retarded”.
Like I say, on a Tuesday night or some shit, cool…but on a Fri/Sat? I’ll choose “being surrounded by a bunch of chicks”, thanks.
“Like, these natural guys hold themselves out as being dominant, awesome, etc. But idk, this forever changed my view of them.”
lol and the myth of the Natural starts crashing down for you. This is good. The more of these guys you meet and hang around with, the more you’ll realize that they really aren’t these amazing badasses that you and everyone around you hyped them up to be. Hell, often they do some pretty lame shit. But they just happen to have better game than most guys and, in very specific scenarios (where they have situational confidence like being in their favorite bar or being in the social circle they’re the leader of, where the girl is already giving them eye contact so it’s a warm approach, etc.), they have a really solid set of skills they apply.
But they’re nowhere near as amazing as people think. They don’t shoot lightning out their butt.
“While it’s true he may hook up with the occassional HB7+, those are always short-term. What he can keep around are always HB5-6′s”
Yup. Thing is, a lot of them don’t MIND that…like, the Naturals with really high sex-drives are just as happy with a 5 as they are with a 9, as long as they’re getting their dick wet consistently.
You’re a “Thrill of the Hunt” guy rather than a “Pleasure of Sex” guy. I’m the same way. I just can’t get into hooking up with a <7. It's gross and embarrassing to me.
"keeps txting me like ‘wtf are you doing, wtf is wrong with you, CLUB CLUB CLUB!’ I know he’s right."
lol. Good on you.
Also something to consider is that that's one more reference experience you earned of "doing what I want to do, despite the social pressure to not rock the boat or look like a jerk". In the past, you might've just stayed at Bingo because you didn't want anyone to be mad at you or to look selfish etc. It's good to develop that "You know what? I want to go do this, so I'm going to go do it. Sorry if you have a problem with that, but I won't apologize for living the life I want to live."
"Then he goes on this rant: “Fucking girls are such a stupid race of people! How inflated can your self-worth get? These bitches need someone to tell them that their life is shit, and I’m gonna be that guy.”"
lol see this is the way a lot of guys go when they take the red pill. Just rage and anger and hatred for women and they end up approaching them from a place of just shitty negative bitterness. It's terrible and I don't like hanging out with guys like that.
I love women, I think they're awesome. They're flawed, but I understand their flaws so that's okay. They're just trying to get by like anyone else in this big crazy world of ours. Life is too short for all that anger.
"For a second I ponder letting him in on the project"
Be careful about who you let in. First thing any of us wants when we find out about game, is to let all our buddies in on it and encourage them to approach with us and stuff because we're like "man I found a way to do better with girls, of course I want my buddies to all know about it!" But the resistance/push-back you'll get on it, from guys who would benefit from it the MOST ironically, is huge and frustrating.
A guy has to hit rock-bottom before he's ready to do what you're doing.
"I just do the whole ‘flirt mercillessly’ thing with is there."
Good, you don't have to fuck her but there's nothing wrong with flirting. Even a 4 is social proof to a 10, as weird as that works. Like you'd think to a 10 only a 9+ would be social proof but no, for whatever reason, even having ugly girls wanting you makes other girls want you. It's pretty awesome when you realize that lol
"And the first thing 4.5 does is just like……..hug me, play with my hair, talk about how she loves me"
And your first instinct was probably "oh shit, get off me!! I don't want HB6Lovely to think I'm into you or that we're together ahhh fuck off you're going to ruin my chances with–"
"which kind of immediately sets the frame for HB6Lovely to just be like 'ya do mind if we just gangbang you right here.' It was kind of a whirlwind few seconds, because HB6Lovely also starts touching me"
huh. Lookit that lol
Also when the frame is set (ideally by you) that it's okay to talk about sex and flirt and hug and touch eachother etc., girls will fall into that frame and open right up. I grabbed a # from a chick in my social circle this weekend who my buddies (AFCs) think is a totally innocent nice Good Girl. She has that look and isn't sexual and doesn't dress slutty and wouldn't be into a guy like me or up for casual sex, etc. Has a total virgin vibe. But we have good chemistry and I can tell she'd be hot if she DID do herself up.
So anyway, I grab her number and within a couple small txt convos I have her agreeing to come over in lingerie under a trenchcoat literally just to bang.
Meanwhile if those guys got her number, they'd be taking her out on a date where she'd be wearing a turtleneck sweater and shit and they'd talk about puppydogs and ice cream.
But why is my "version" of her that I get to experience so different than theirs would be? Because I set a very sexual non-judgemental frame from the beginning and I make sure to qualify her so she feels special and she's able to loosen up with me and get into the roleplay of being a little sex-pot sex object for me. It's win/win for both of us, because we'd both rather get laid and have fun than go to some boring dinner…she just needs me to create a situation where that can happen in a way that she won't feel guilty about it and instead will feel empowered and happy about it.
"They invite me, but I decline."
Good. Don't chase pussy. They want you Orbiting them allllll fucking night because it's a huge validation high for them. It just makes you look like a chump and frustrates you because you have to watch all the other dudes Orbiting them. Notice that often when they want to leave to another bar it's because they aren't getting enough attention from enough men in THAT bar lol
If you decline, you can stay and do your thing, and they have no idea if maybe you're hooking up with another chick. You can always txt them near 2am and be like "Denny's at 2. You guys in?"
If I want a # I'll usually go "No, I'm staying here. But gimme your # incase this place sucks and we'll hang out later." I don't really care if we hang out later, they'll probably be drunk/annoying by then, but now I have the # and the next day I can txt a "how's the hangover lol" and work some txt game from there.
"It’s not like I’m not going to see HB6Lovely again."
Excellent attitude. It'd be different if she wasn't someone in your social circle, then it might be alright to chase. But not if you're going to see her again at some point, eff it, meet new girls.
"Nightly opens a girl, and Anti-Game starts talking to the girl."
lol. This kind of stuff is why when you FIND a good wingman, he is worth 1000000 women. Like, never choose a chick over your wingman or fight with him over a girl because he is so fucking valuable. Two guys with solid game and solid wingmanship skills and a solid friendship (which often you can develop just through gaming girls together, like if you meet a dude at the bar randomly and click as wingmen)…they can do a LOT of damage together.
Imagine having to hang out with Anti-Game here as your only wingman ever. Fucking painful lol
"I use the 3 second rule."
Excellent! Keep that up. I still have to remind myself to use it.
"That’s the theory, anyway, and why I’m starting to get why multiple threads/stacking is important."
A solid way to run it. You'll find a lot of laid back (Owen Wilson type) Naturals do this…they naturally expect everyone to be friendly to them, so they just roll up and shoot the shit with no outcome in mind and build some comfort/rapport right away and work from there.
VS the flashy guy who goes up and spikes her temp right off the start and all that.
The problem to watch out for is that you'll get categorized as asexual right away…both because you're short and because you're approaching with a "shoot the shit" vibe. So you'll have to consciously shift into actual gaming once you snag an ioi or two, or you're just going to end up having a ton of "pleasant conversations", but no Attraction.
Like this method you're thinking of will make opening easier/smoother, but it'll make transitioning into a sexual vibe harder because you're almost purposely putting yourself in an asexual role you'll have to dig out of.
If you want to try it out for a bit, try doing it for the first few sets of the night and then make a conscious effort to start going a little more direct with your next sets (not full out direct, but just get right into spiking Buying Temperatures and teasing and emotional rollrecoaster stuff).
Just remember: If you're doing this method and you find you're not getting any Attraction, just "pleasant interactions", that's a direct result of this method and if that frustrates you, you'll have to switch back to something more direct/aggressive that sparks sexual Attraction.
"Me (don’t know how to disobey the command verbally and in a cool way, so instead, I just…eh…’flamboyantly’ turn)"
lol. Shit, it's better than nothing! I would've done something like "Turn around? You're just trying to check out my butt. Pervert. You're trouble, aren't you. (to her friend) Is she the crazy one?" etc.
"Me: (laughs) Is that fucking right? (turn to right 5.5) Blah blah blah hairdresser…"
Note that, like right here, there doesn't have to be any logical transition from your weed opener to your hairdresser routine. Like, a lot of guys think "oh it'd be weird if I just started saying this, I need to make it smooth and make sense" but girls don't work that way. You just interrupt yourself or them with whatever new thing you want to say…if your frame is strong, they'll just fall into it and roll with the new conversation thread.
"Me: No, SHE’S the really crazy one out of the two of you…I can tell."
Good, switch up your target if the one you're talking to isn't playing along. This is Group Theory. If you can get the friend to play along and love you, the one that was being a bummer will chill out and join in the fun. Often you'll find the hotter girl is kind of stoic/lame, and the uglier girl is more fun/energetic, so you'll have to bail on the hotter girl to joke around with the uglier girl and even make fun of the hotter girl together, and once the uglier girl loves you, the hotter girl's jealousy kicks in and she loosens up and you can go back to her but with her more receptive.
(and of course you can use that incident later to qualify her like "ya, at first I thought you were kind of a bitch because you were being boring lol and I was like aww man another girl who's hot as fuck but has no personality…I'm glad you loosened up, you're actually a cool chick, I shouldn't have judged you so fast. I bet a lot of guys judge you by your looks hey?" (etc. etc.))
"Like, if we were in a relationship and I inevitably cheated on you, you’d probably stab me, whereas you (indicating Right 5.5) would just yell at me or something."
I would change this up. Your examples in it right now give the girls bad emotions and set up an aggressive frame. If they've been cheated on before (which they probably have), you're bringing up those feelings they had and assosciating them with YOU.
And becuase you're talking about "stabbing", you're getting this response:
"Left 5.5: Psh. I would cut your dick off."
It's because you're already going into a roleplay involving knives and pain and stabbing and cutting and blood and shit. So they're just escalating the frame you set. If you said something super gay like "you would hit me with a flower" there's no way she'd respond "I would cut your dick off" because that's just a fucking crazy response that escalated too huge a leap lol
So off the top of my head here, I would go with something like: "Like if you and I were dating, and I was like "sorry babe, not tonight, I have a headache", you'd pin me down, bust fuzzy handcuffs out of nowhere and feed me viagra till the sun came up. Whereas she (indicating her friend) would be like "oh that's okay honey" and then quietly cry herself to sleep wondering why I don't love her anymore. "
Like, something where you're setting a sexual frame, but in a FUN-crazy kind of way, VS a "dick-in-a-blender"-crazy kind of way lol
'cause as funny as this is (I lol'ed out loud reading it and picturing how that looked in the bar):
"Me (makes gurgly nomnomonom slurp slurp noises) mwahahahahaha I drank the last of his dick forevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar."
…it's not a super conducive path toward turning her on sexually. And you're ending up down this road because you're using the cheating/stabbing examples in your routine. Try switching it up to the one I wrote next time, or come up with something similar that's congruent for you.
"Me: ME AND YOU FOREVER. ALWAYS…"
lol you're fun/entertaining to them, but not Attractive. There's no sexual tension/chemistry right now. Not a big deal, your conversation threads just haven't gone down a route where you're getting into "man to woman" communication. You're in "friend to friend" right here.
"I make a mental note that the only way I’m going to be able to get them to stick around and not leave is if I build some type of attraction."
Yup. If they're social circle and you'll see them a ton, you can just "be a cool fun guy" and at some drunken house party you can escalate to hooking up. But with cold-approach, if you don't build sexual Attraction in the first 5 min, they're going to move on…why? BECAUSE THEY WANT A COCK IN THEM. lol Girls are as horny as we are! They just need guys to step up and spike their emotions and then make them feel non-judged and comfortable for letting their sexual side out while the guy handles all the logistics back to a place they can fuck.
"when he’s like ‘oh is this guy bothering you? he’s drunk, he’s drunk!’"
"I introduce Nightly"
Good intro. A lot of Naturals get tunnel vision around girls and forget to introduce their buddy and then their buddy is stuck unable to help because he looks like he isn't important enough for his own buddy to acknowledge him. It's super gay. Always make sure your wing has an intro if he's trying to get into the set.
"7.5 with wedding veil"
ALWAYS approach and congratulate and flirt with these girls. ALWAYS. Birthday Girls with tiaras and shit too. That's why they have that stuff on, because they want attention, so they're going to be 100% receptive all the time to anyone who approaches, let alone anyone who flirts with them.
This is good for your state because you get a ton of attention/interaction with girls at once (sometimes they'll all fight over your attention if you come off as a fun flirty guy that the bride or mother hen approves of), PLUS to everyone else in the club you're the guy that rolled up and opened like a 4-10 set of women fearlessly and got them loving you.
These girls literally exist for you to pump your own state with, so allllllways approach them. Plus you make their night awesome too 'cause they want attention from cool fun guys. Win/win, giving value.
"7: (flat) yeah we’re good friends, it’s her wedding."
"7 seems put off by me lol."
"7: I don’t know."
"7 makes an almost disgusted face, me and the 5.5 laugh and high five"
"7:…no, she ran a 10K last year, okay, she’s actually really good at –"
This is what's known as a boring girl with full bitch-shields up. lol Usually this kind of chick is hot, but just not socially competant or fun…she doesn't get sarcasm or flirting and assumes the worst of you and is just kind of lame…and it's tragic because usually she's decent looking so you know she's just been getting by on her looks and hasn't had to develop a personality.
BUT, you handled it perfectly by shitting on her to spike the more fun 5.5's Buying Temperature.
"Me: (laughing) No shit, my ex-girlfriend had asthma! YOU CAN’T RUN FOR SHIT, BITCH!"
"7 makes an almost disgusted face, me and the 5.5 laugh and high five"
"7:…no, she ran a 10K last year, okay, she’s actually really good at –"
"Me: YOU RAN A 10K? HOLY SHIT YOU’RE SOME SORTA CYBORG! I RAN A 3K! FOR REAL! THAT’S SOOOO COOOL!"
"5.5 (laughing hard, high fives me again) You ran a 3K?! Nice! You’ll be running half marathons soon, that’s awesome"
This whole part right here was flawless. Well done. You didn't fall into the 7's frame, or get suckered into qualifying/apologizing with her shit-tests, and you basically just cut her off and ignored her boring shit to focus on creating good emotions in the 5.5 who clearly GOT your humor and was having fun.
End result? Just like the 4-set from a little while back with the bitchy uggos, once you turn enough of the group around and put the social pressure on the party-pooper, they fall into your frame and realize they were being gay and come around to join the fun.
"7 turns to me, bats eyes
7: Oh, you ran a 3k…that’s pretty cool…so you’re into running?"
Boom. ioi. This is how I know she was just boring/lame and not a bitch and who would never fuck you. Because she's TRYING to get rapport here, she just doesn't know how to because she's used to guys doing the work for her lol
You might be thinking "I dunno maybe she was just being polite." Ask yourself this: If you were a stinky disgusting smelly homeless man with beer breath, and you said you ran 3K, do you think she would say "that's pretty cool…so you're into running?" NO. She'd be like "OMG PLEASE DON'T TALK TO US ANYMORE" and be looking for a chance to run away.
So believe it or not, you sparked attraction with her. And you did it through shitting on her frame and flirting with her 5.5 friend and winning the friend's love/Attraction, which triggers a jealousy thing which triggers her ioi'ing you about your running.
"Me: Of course…I gotta outrun my exes, DUH
Ahhh, see NOW she's all loosened up. You just had to plow through that initial awkwardness till she caught up.
"The woman grabs wedding veil, who directs everyone else out of the set."
I actually hate wedding/b'day parties for this reason. It's VERY VERY hard to peel these girls off their group. That's why I say, go up and approach them, use them for a state boost, but don't stress trying to land any of them because a lot of them don't go out to the bar much and are scared of going home with a guy and they have like half the group acting as mother hens and the wedding/b'day girl will be barfing and need babysitting later because they'll drink too much etc. etc.
At BEST with these ones, I maybe grab a phone number from one of the chicks if we have a bit of a connection, but even then I don't put much stock in it. I just use them to get myself feeling energetic and in state.
"Here’s what I’m starting to notice about the club scene —- truly hot girls are fairly rare."
True! This is part of why when guys are like "oh I'm banging 9s and 10s off OKCupid and day-game" it's like no, you're not lol, because even at a nightclub where the girls dress the hottest in their life next to their wedding day, in most cities there's only like 2 10s, 3-5 9s, a handful of 8s and a bunch of 7 and belows. There are some hotties who don't go out to the bar, but you have to put in a shitload of hunting time to find them. Like a dude in college is surrounded by some hot girls…but they're not 9s and 10s. They can be hot, especially for that environment, but put any of them in a Vegas nightclub or the Playboy mansion in the clothes they wear around campus, and no one would even notice them.
Like there are hot girls out there in the day and everything, but it completely depends on the city. Like Vegas or NYC, sure, there are 10s running around during the day. But in Podunk, Alabama, you're not surrounded by phenomenal hotties during the day…you're walking around a bunch of uglies and average girls, looking for the hotties for half an hour before you find one, and even when you find them they're dressed in plain clothes.
This is part of why I like to go to random new venues all the time. You never know where you're going to find a regular stream of hotties. Like going out on Thursday is inconvenient for me…but if I stumble across a bar that has a solid Ladies Night on Thursdays and the talent there is above average, I'd rather go out for a couple hours on Thursday to that place, than spend 6 hours in a shittier club on a Saturday where the girls are all mediocre/average.
It also depends on your city/culture in general…like a college town will tend to have a lot of fatties because the girls put on the Freshman 15, away from home and drinking cheap beer and eating fast-food all the time and shit. Whereas an older crowd at happy hour will tend to have hotter women because they're a bit older but they do pilates and have the $ to take care of their appearance etc. Or like, a country bar will have a bunch of uggos because the culture in that enviro is just "let's all just get shit-faced and sloppy on cheap beer". Gotta' find the places and nights that have the type of girls you're into.
You'll find the smokin' hot girls at the clubs:
1) Don't drink much if at all. They don't want to cause a bad scene and embarrass themselves and ruin their reputation because they know everyone is watching them.
2) Leave before midnight. They're just there "doing the rounds" making an appearance because they're getting themselves into high-value social circles where they'll get access to guys who own the nightclub and celebrities that pass through town and shit, not trying to get Bob from Accounting's dick in a drunken stupor at 2am.
3) Hang out with a crowd, usually of dudes who are jacked, rich, good-looking, social, etc.
4) If they're just out with a girlfriend, they'll just do a few laps of the bar, dance together and get some validation, but shoot guys down and then leave before midnight.
You generally won't find a 10 making out with a random dude at 2am while he fingers her on the dance floor lol. It can happen, but it's reaaaaally fucking rare.
"They don’t talk to girls, they stand in a circle with their drinks held up to their waists."
Yep. Even good looking dudes and normally alpha dudes who are just feeling intimidated by the club environment will do this. You're the exception, you're the guy with the balls to go approach. Even if they talk smack they WISH they could do what you're doing.
"So…probably too early and doing nothing to help him."
You entered before he hit the hook point, so they run away right away. If he had hit the hook point, they'd stand there and wait and try to get in your conversation. No biggie, just a timing issue! Entering at the right time in the right way is the trickiest part of wingmanning. Once you're in it's fine, but before you're in you have to read the body language and just kind of estimate when the best time to enter is…sometimes you don't need to enter at ALL, if your buddy is good and like, he enters a 3-set and the other 2 girls keep eachother busy and don't seem to be cockblocking.
"this fat uggo tools me and says ‘wait, do u have weed?’"
lol. So annoying.
"I run the stack on her, it seems to go well, she laughs, she leans in to hear what I’m saying."
She's into you. But she's 1) shy/nervous, and 2) pre-occupied with finding a place to sit…maybe she's wearing heels and her feet hurt like crazy, maybe she was doing squats before the bar and she's exhausted, who knows, but it's something that logistically is fucking you over because you can't solve her need to sit. Not much you can do about it…if there was ANY chair in the room you could grab it and drag it over for her and you'd be set and might get her, but sometimes the enviro just doesn't work with ya lol
"I start to just think she’s polite"
Quit thinking that lol There's no "polite", there's only "she hates me" or "she wants my cock".
"‘So tell me your life story in five words or less.’"
This is good, I like this one. And here you're putting the onus on her to contribute to the conversation. Making her invest.
"Her: (laughing) No, this is impossible..no…"
She resists a lot but it's not because she hates you, it's because she's on the spot and hasn't had to do anything like that before so she's panicking. It'd be like someone saying "tell me a joke" and you're like uhhhh shit I can't think of one!
"I just fall silent then…"
Good. Don't harp on it too much, but don't reward her for not playing along.
"she resumes conversation"
Because she's into you. Resuming the conversation when you let it go silent is a standard ioi. Again, would she resume the convo if you were a stinky gross toothless homeless man? No. It really is this simple/binary.
"Her: Why don’t you do this?"
Not a shit-test…she's trying to build comfort/rapport with you because she was having fun and then the fun stopped when she couldn't keep up so now she's trying to get you to do it so you can keep having fun.
"Me: Awesome, Fun, Party, Boning, Blowjobs."
lol awesome. Sexual stuff in there is good stuff.
"Her: No, I still don’t think I can do this."
Again she's just embarrassed/nervous and resisting.
"I fall silent again. She thinks…finally she says stuff."
And again you don't reward her not playing along, so she racks her brain to come up with something. This is GOOD. This is her investing, wanting to build rapport, wanting to qualify herself to you, etc.
This is similar to when I'm like "hmmm, really? That's boring. Come back when you have a better answer. (backturn)" and the girl runs off to poll her friends for advice etc. so she can come back and try to impress me with a better answer.
You just did a much subtler/rapport/comfort type version of it, which was good with this girl.
And the end result is:
"Her: Something, something, love, no regrets."
She's investing. This is Attraction lol She would have left or changed topics or something if you were an ugly hideous gross homeless bum.
Attraction isn't like, "Hey, here's my vagina in your face blalahglaghhlaghlhagh". It's these subtle little things that all add up.
"‘WHAT’S YOUR OCCUPATION?!’ said like a maximum chode."
"(the whole roleplay thing got laughs from her but like…when she went away, I was actually worried she wouldn’t come back, and she only slowly came back)"
Doesn't matter how or when she came back. What matters is she came back. Binary, that's it. If you were a homeless stinky old creeper, she would never come back. The fact that she does means there's SOMETHING you can work with. It might not be much, but it's there.
"My friend on the other hand gets in her face like ‘hey, how could he hate you, you’re so beautiful.’ She recoils…"
lol but women love compliments!! I read it on Jezebel!!
"I start to think their presence could be a huge DLV for both me and Nightly."
Yep. A girl judges you by your friends. Often when I'm stuck with lame guys (because they're lame with girls but they're still my buddies and I like them as friends), I'll just pace the girl's reality and let her know that I'm fully aware my friends aren't super cool. Like "lol sorry about that, I've been trying to teach him how to talk to girls but he gets pretty in-your-face and scares a lot of girls off. He's a great guy, but I dunno, I think girls like a guy they can just relax and be chill with, you know?" (etc. etc. build comfort/rapport).
"then they talk to these guys who paid probably 1000 dollars to sit in a booth, and they let them sit with them."
lol it's like 99.99999% for sure that those guys didn't bang her. But they did pay $1000 to let a 6.5 sit with them, way to go guys you're ballin' it up lol
Again you basically just got fucked over by the layout of the bar and her need to sit. For all you know she rolled her ankle outside the bar or something.
But, what I would've done here, is grabbed her # before they went outside. Just something casual like "Cool, we're probably gonna head downstairs. You're fun though, I thought you were boring at first 'cause you were so shy but I'm glad you loosened up lol (qualifying her) Gimme your # incase we lose eachother and I'll txt you when we go for food later." Anything to just snag her #. Maybe it'd flake on you, or maybe she wouldn't give it to you, but, well, you don't have it NOW so what would be the difference? lol
Basically you're still talking yourself out of iois and signs and convincing yourself that girls are just being polite/friendly to you. Sometimes they ARE, but you're lumping the ones that are legit a little Attracted in with those polite ones. The trick is in spotting the iois, like asking about your running or coming up with 5 words to describe her life, etc. Those aren't throwaway comments, those are relevant and should ping like big neon signs in your mind. The girls who are just being polite don't do stuff like that.
"She’s unfortunately on her phone."
lol sure it went shitty, but look at it this way: You gained reference experiences for 1) following your 3 second rule, so you're building up that habit, and 2) opening a girl on her phone…sure it didn't go well but the world didn't END, it was just a funny little moment of awkwardness and a funny story…most of the horror stories that guys stress will happen are all in their imagination.
"Me: I HUNT TO INSPIRE TERROR IN MY ENEMIES AND LOYALTY IN MY FOLLOWERS!"
lol awesome. You come up with great improvised shit on the fly once you're in state and into the girl.
"Me: Watch out guys, apparently I just ran into the night club’s game warden."
Good, good, working group theory, play off the group, neg the girl shit-testing you, etc. Good stuff.
"Some guy comes and does the -right- thing and sits next to her on the couch."
No, whatever, fuck that guy, he doesn't exist. lol If you can captivate her emotions enough, she'll literally ignore her friends dragging her by the hand away from you, to keep talking to you. …but he probably knows her, so it's good to make him like you…just be a little bit cooler than him. Hypergamy.
"(Hawt girl) she’s like ‘yeah i’m from the country so yeah….’" – qualifying herself
"Hawt girl asks if I’m from the city" – ioi (A2, Female-To-Male interest)
"She says she’s going to school here to be a nurse." – qualifying herself and seeking rapport
"I tell her about my program, and she’s impressed." – DHV'ed and subsequent ioi/Attraction
"I also say that an ex was a nurse blah blah blah, we can’t get along." – solid, use this a lot lol…it says you have an ex so girls have liked you, and it sets that "we won't get along" routine up
"She laughs." – iois all around, she's Attracted legit.
"She lets slip that she has a fiance and shows off the ring." – She's letting you know this because she's feeling guilty about being Attracted to you and she wants to make sure you know what her deal is so that she can alleviate her guilt…that way if things continue further, hey, she warned you, so it's all YOUR fault and it "just happened" and she can suck your cock guilt free lol
It's a long ways from that end result, but this is the initial spark of it.
"Fuck. I could eject, but I dunno. I think she’s kind of into me."
You DO know, you've just seen yourself as a guy that girls wouldn't be into or would only be polite to for SO many years that your brain won't let you accept that these girls are into you for real.
"The guy next to her actually chimes in, tells her he’s in the army."
He sees she's attracted to you, so he's trying to qualify himself to her to get some of that lovin'.
"Get this, hawt girl uses my exact line on HIM! Like, ‘oh we can’t be friends because my fiance is in the army.'"
lol So she shoots him down and disqualifies him…with the line YOU gave her. She's into you.
"An awkward minute passes as I figure out how to change this situation."
You would have to get her isolated from her group to do anything, unfortunately. Like take her to get a drink or to dance or wait for her group to be leaving and then grab her, etc. but you'd get cockblocked and trigger her ASD because her showing you her ring is already her ASD being triggered, so it probably wouldn't have worked out…but again, for that moment, with that girl, you had real legit Attraction.
"Then finally I say to the guy ‘hey, now none of us can be friends you asshole, goddammit!’"
lol, good stuff. What's he supposed to respond to that? He doesn't fucking know lol
"This pulls her attention back to me."
You're more interesting/alpha/attractive than that dude to her.
"I notice that whenever I break rapport with her, she’s quick to seek it out with any of the other — now it’s three/four — guys around her."
Ya, because you take her validation away, and she knows they'll all provide it like cheap emotional hookers, so she fishes through them for it. This is the same thing that girl did to you in your other FR where she rallied up the guys across from you and the HB8Waitress to gang up against you because you weren't seeking her approval and chasing her and falling into her frame enough.
Girls KNOW that all the guys around them are easy-ass chumps who just need a batted eyelash to jump to attention and do whatever they want. But they won't fuck those guys…they WANT the guy who won't cave to all that, they just have to test it first.
This is another reason you want to isolate girls from their group. One on one, it's harder for them to rally up the people around you and your stronger frame will win out.
"it’s not like she knew any of those guys."
Shit, really?? If she doesn't know them you can just grab her by the hand and go "let's go find your friends." and walk her away from them. lol
"and he’s like ‘dude, trust me…anti-game here was going to be a horrible obstacle, he kept saying that he wanted to talk to the girl you were talking to and help out. trust me.’"
haha I believe him. The only thing worse than a guy with anti-game is a guy with anti-game who THINKS he has game and is super eager to "help out". 'cause you don't want to shit on him because he's TRYING to help and has the best of intentions, he's just, not good at it. lol
"Anyway, I just have to distract until her bf arrives."
Ya just stick to casual conversation in those situs. You're just keeping them busy till your buddy can make his moves.
"Reality check: she has a 20 year old kid. She’s divorced. She’s not worth it."
lol true, but if your wing is into her, help him out. 'cause down the road you'll be into a girl that he doesn't approve of but he'll help you out. It also creates drama and kind of a downer vibe if you guys get into a shitting match of like "dude that girl you hit on was soooo ugly" etc. and it starts making you guys worried about approaching in front of eachother because you don't know if your buddy thinks the girl is hot enough and then next thing you know you guys are standing in a circle with your drinks up at your chest scared to talk to any girls and you're toast for months from there.
"Me and Nightly looked between one another and were like ‘that’s awesome dude, get it wet.’"
lol exactly. It's different if like, Nightly was like "dude don't let me pick up any cougars ugh" at the start of the night and then he ends up hitting on one…but if he's just going with the flow and into her for whatever reason, awesome dude, get it wet! and find some girls and say "My friend is going home with an ugly girl. You two are my new friends. Hey are you a hairdresser?"
"As soon as we dropped them off though, I’m like ‘dude………..we have no choice. we HAVE to try this….or that’s our lives. right there.’"
Yep lol It's like Julien says in one of his videos: Let's say looks DO matter. Let's say only 6'4" guys can get laid. Now what? Are you going to just go "oh…okay " and settle for some chubby divorced 4 with 3 kids? No, fuck that. What kind of life is that? So fuck whether looks matter, look your best and then sharpen your game until you're landing the girls you want. It's that or join anti-game with his bottom of the barrel scraps, or your Natural buddies playing Bingo with a 6.
"I guess I’m just gonna have to stack more routines, maybe work on body language shit I’m missing. I dunno."
You're getting Attraction, you're just not taking it anywhere. Your whole front-end is getting much more solid. The girls are paying attention to what you say and you're approaching/opening solid, and you're dipping into Attraction, comfort/rapport, etc. here and there. This is progress, even if it doesn't feel like it's fast enough.
Try isolating next time. The next girl you get laughing, where she's got that vibe of the 5.5 that was high-fiving you earlier, literally just say "HEY. Come with me." and grab her by her wrist (lightly, no death grip shit lol) and turn and start walking away pulling her.
Don't tell her where you're going, it doesn't matter where you go even. Just walk her 20 steps in a direction and then stop and keep chatting. Hell, just walk her 20 steps and then ditch her, it doesn't matter. The main thing is, on a Buying Temperature spike, grab her and drag her away from her group.
If they go "omg where are we going?" just go "Adventure!" or "Shush!" and hold your frame like you just expect her to come with you. When you get to wherever, just stop and say like "Okay now I can hear you, it was too loud over there." and resume like nothing unusual happened lol
Try walking her around the ENTIRE CLUB if you can. Without saying anything, just dragging her as if you have some specific destination in mind.
This is just to try out leading and kino and shit. If the girl DOESN'T go with you, like she resists, just tease her a bit more and get her laughing, cold-read her and drop the crazy stuff in there or whatever, and as soon as she laughs again go "Okay, now come with me." and pull her again.
You'll be surprised at how soon you can do this and it might help your brain understand when a girl is into you, because she won't come with you if she isn't into you, and if she DOES come with you, that's HUGE in terms of determining her attraction level for you.
And to address your bit down below:
"I’m just gonna add this question about persistence —- I mean, do you not ‘plow forward’ unless you get some sort of instant attraction?"
You assume attraction and plow regardless. Don't wait for permission to plow. Oddly enough, plowing is actually part of what BUILDS attraction.
Like I just mentioned next time you're out, take the girl by the forearm/wrist and drag her away as soon as you get a laugh or ioi out of her. She might only be a 2/10 attracted to you at that point, but the very act of pulling her and confidently assuming she'll go with you and dominating/leading her physically like that will spike her to a 5/10, you know? If you didn't capitalize on that and lead the interaction forward, she'd still be at a 2/10 or a 3/10, but the fact that you're confident enough to plow forward with only minor minor indications that it'll go well, that's part of what spikes her.
Then if you can smoothly ignore resistance, like if she goes "no, no, I can't lol!!" and you just joke around and tease her and then try again, now she's going to be at a 7/10 because you're so confident and unphased by her rejection etc. VS the guy who hasn't tried to lead her away from her group at all, who's still at a 3/10. It's why I'll go for the makeout 5 times and get the cheek 5 times, but on the 6th we make out…even in those 5 rejections, each one that I handled smoothly and unphased and kept trying again, built a little more attraction and demonstrated some high-value properties.
In the future I'll make you do this same exercise, but with trying to make-out with her. Baby steps though for now lol Start with leading her away from her group and we'll build from there.
lol, dude when I read your FR’s sometimes it’s like….coming out of the Matrix — AGAIN! Like, how subtle these IOI’s are. I mean….it’s just weird, because society seems to tell us that ‘unless she’s licking her lips and hugging you you can’t escalate/be forward without being a creep.’ But I guess it’s way more subtle than that.
I’m totally gonna rework that ‘cheating’ routine. Probably just gonna steal what you wrote and use it in field this week. I’ll see how it goes!
And the breakdown of country girl blew my mind. Like, I thought her using my line on another guy was her indicating interest in the other guy. But what you said makes way more sense. lol.
That video on getting physical was awesome! I was always told that you get physical to ‘establish a sexual vibe,’ but this guy says you do it to lead and demonstrate leadership. That just seems to take a lot of the pressure off of me. This week I’ll try getting a girl in a set to come with me somewhere.
But yeah, I just want to say I really appreciate your feedback. It really helps. I always find several things you’ve said in the previous FR to try out — in some way — the next time I go out.
“society seems to tell us that ‘unless she’s licking her lips and hugging you you can’t escalate/be forward without being a creep.’”
lol ya, society’s “10 Funky Tips on How To Know She’s Into You” bullshit makes guys think that 1) she’s going to beat you over the head with the clue-hammer when she likes you (strong independent women go for what they want, don’t they feminists? oh no wait, they do the same bullshit subtle “stand near him. that’s my ioi. be in the same room as him. how come he doesn’t know I’m into him???” hints that women have always done), and 2) you’re a rapist if you DARE escalate without a signed and written contract of her accepting your escalation in advance.
Reality is the iois can be massively subtle and as simple as “she’s still there in front of you”. Like that, to me, is a green light. If she ASKS me something?? About my RUNNING?? Like, holy shit lady, just take off your pants already and let’s do this thing. lol
“I’m totally gonna rework that ‘cheating’ routine. Probably just gonna steal what you wrote and use it in field this week. I’ll see how it goes!”
Ya man, steal the shit out of it, it’s actually pretty decent. I could probably come up with something better, but try it out and you’ll end up tweaking it yourself I’m sure. It should keep you from getting into conversations where you two are talking about chopping your dick off and drinking it out of a blender.
“Like, I thought her using my line on another guy was her indicating interest in the other guy.”
What? Fuck no lol I can’t even imagine how that would be an indicator of that. She disqualified him AND used YOUR line (aka she’s listening and thinks your shit is funny) AND instantly turned back to you after you tooled him. Combine that with all those other iois and that’s all Scray-times lol
You know how you’re always like “oh she was just being polite?” She was just being polite to him.
“This week I’ll try getting a girl in a set to come with me somewhere.”
Good stuff. We’ll push your comfort zone a bit at a time, that’s the process. It’s slow but steady toward improvement. A year from now you’ll look back on this post and laugh that someone had to tell you “it’s okay to lead her around the bar when she’s smiling and laughing at what you say”.
“I just want to say I really appreciate your feedback.”
No prob, glad to help! I’m just paying it forward from all the guys that helped me when I was starting out. And part of why I do these breakdowns for you is that I can tell you’re actually trying to apply stuff from them in the field, VS this all just falling on deaf ears and you reverting back to “it just seems too impossible, I just can’t do this, maybe some guys just aren’t meant to be good with girls poor me I’m short waaaahhh”.
Not usually a night to go out, but it’s someone’s birthday. Let’s do eeet. I get there. Lots of people in social circle are there. There are three girls of interest here. One of them, HB6Asian — has on/off drama with a natural buddy of mine. The other two — HB6LittleBlondie and HB6Chunky (she’s pretty hot, but it’s only a matter of time before she crosses that ‘gain’ line….it’d be nice to get it in before she becomes a fatass lol), are ones I’m interested in.
I get there a little late, and both of them are already drunk. HB6LittleBlondie and HB6Chunky compliment me on my haircut. No big deal, whatevs. Time goes on in the night. HB6LittleBlondie gets pretty touchy with me at one point, like, in my face, touching my face, holding my hand (it’s all really brief, I don’t really react). But you know, she’s drunk so who cares? I mean, after she was me, she was on another guy for awhile, then her and HB6Chunky got really really sloppy with one another. So ya…drunk as phuuuuck.
In other news — I realized that I need to develop a bigger presence somehow. It’s more than just standing with open posture and being loud, I think. At least for me it will be. But hey, with time….hopefully.
I see HB6LittleBlondie and HB6Asian, and I talk to them about hangovers/whatever. Here’s what I notice…HB6LittleBlondie seems to look at me differently now. Like, up until today/yesterday, she was fairly nonchalant (I don’t want to say cold but yeah….). Just a different vibe…she hugs me when she goes. Little shit — I don’t think much of it. Maybe we’re becoming friends or something (much to my chagrin). Then I see HB6Chunky….she’s always been sort of standoffish, but I don’t care. She tries to give me a high 5 and I say ‘we hug around here.’ She’s like ‘I’m not really a hug person, but I’ll give you a one arm blah blah blah…’ Hahahaha total creeper moment. Oh well…
Get invited to go to a bar and just chill. I go. I end up sitting by HB6littleBlondie by chance. She asks how I’m doing. We talk a little bit…I can’t really pick up how the vibe’s changed.
So HB8Waitress (from last FR) is the table’s waitress. She comes by and I’m like ‘well I haven’t decided yet…’ and she’s like ‘yeah, you want that salad, the steak salad right?” I look up at her ‘No. I don’t want that.’ “that’s the last thing you got here.’ ‘I don’t need no salad…’ She laughs and leaves. I’m wondering if Ya is right that now she remembers me because of that whole frame battle thing…..or she could just be a really good waitress.
So then, she comes back and I’m like ‘yeah, I’m gonna get the steak…with a salad on the side.’ I smirk, and she laughs. “ooooh, well…try not to spill anything this time.’
Last time I accidentally knocked over a glass of water on the table.
Me: ‘nah that never happened’
Her: ‘we have security cameras!’
Me: ‘…and who they captured wasn’t me. Cool.’
She laughs again. At around this time, HBLittleBlondie is like ‘oh, I think she likes you.’ I don’t say anything about it or respond, but I kind of notice this little demure head tilt from her. So regardless of whether HB8Waitress likes me or whatever….I’m pretttttty convinced that a hot chick showing ANY POSSIBLE SIGN of interest is a huuuuuge DHV. I mean, not rocket science, but like…..the group responded to me in a completely different way as well.
Later, we play shuffleboard…me and natural buddy v. HBlittleblondie and HBChunky. I make a little joke about how I play ‘street shuffleboard’ and that I may shoulder check HBLittleBlondie, she says that she may shoulder check me back. I say ‘oh yeah? Why don’t you practice your shoulder check on me now…let’s see what you got.’ She’s like ‘you’ll see when it happens.’ So…I mean, she didn’t do it.
Anyway, we owned them at shuffleboard because lol they’re girls and they left, and she hugged me again. I’m having trouble describing this ‘vibe shift’ I’m feeling. But reading all of this over, maybe I’m just reading too much into it. Maybe she’s just becoming ‘cool’ with me. She has a boyfriend, too…soooo yaaaaaaa.
Earlier in the day I see Jessica aka HB6.5Rodrigo. I remember Ya’s advice. So, I just say hey what’s up, and initiate a bunch of conversation. She says something about wanting to be a partner one day and I’m like ‘oh ya, how many cats you planning on buying? Let me guess…10?’
She’s like ‘nah, that’s too many.’
‘I don’t know, still too many.’
And I’m like….welllllllllll….I think I should just flirt/creepout/whatever with any girl in my life because I mean….the alternative is LJBF listen to me talk about guys I’m attracted to land.
So…..I make sure to just add
‘Okay, well you can’t have any more than 5 cats at the wedding.’
She laughs and rolls her eyes. It’s quite possible that she’s so socially savvy that she can hide her discomfort this well. Coolies.
‘But they all have to be thundercats….if they aren’t thundercats, then fuck off with the cats.’
‘Well, I don’t even think that’s possible…’
‘Wow you’re such a bitch, I just want some fucking thundercats for the reception!’
‘Well I mean…I don’t know…they don’t exist.’
I just shake my head, then I just don’t say anything for a few seconds. Then she just says she has to go home to do blah blah blah.
Mark — FatBoy from now on — apparently met some girl at a bar that he’s gonna stay and talk to, which means he’s out of the project for the night. I call up Ted — CrazyMex from now on. CrazyMex has to work.
I always knew this day would come. I’ve never sarged completely alone before, but the choice remains — stay at home or go out alone. I suit up and decide to hit a club. The goal is simple — 5 sets for the night and I can go home. Easy, breezy.
I’m nervous going there. I’m nervous walking to the club. I’m nervous standing in line at the club. I can’t follow the 3 second rule for shit. I get to the club at around 11. I see a few people around me in line — some older women with their herbsbands. You know what would be a good idea? Talking to them, getting into a social mood. Nah, I pass and just stand there.
Soon enough I get let into the club. So, it’s set up weird…like a faux dancefloor/restaurant on the bottom floor, club on the top floor. Easy. I get into the bottom floor and I completely chode out. I immediately see a mixed set directly in my line of vision. Opened? Nah. I walk toward the bar, and I see another set of serious HB’s. Do I open? Of course not, I -reason- with myself that just walking over there by the wall would be ridiculous if I was asking for an opinion and was ‘just passing through.’ Hasn’t been 5 minutes and my night’s already in trouble.
I circle around and go to the bathroom. I wash my face. I lower my goal of 5 sets to 3. 3 seems like something I can do with all of this inner nervousness. I head out of the bathroom and walk upstairs to the club. The club’s layout is weird. It’s a long strip with a bar at both ends, steps up to a dancefloor in the middle, a more intimate dancefloor + a bar at the other end, tucked away, and tables/booths on either side of the strip. It’s loud as all hell. I walk through — surprisingly enough, I have a hard time finding a set to open. I don’t feel confident enough to open sets where two girls are there with two guys and oldies (surprisingly a lot of them out in force as I’ll get to later).
Finally, I find three girls…6, 7, 6.5. I stop, and I deliver the drug dealer opener. I mean, I say it as loud as I can. All three of them look at one another, the 6 leans in. They don’t know what I’m saying. I don’t lean forward, I stay where I am, and I repeat it louder. The 6 still can’t hear what I’m saying, the other girls look at the 6, the 6 sort of shrugs, and the group splinters. The 7 turns around from being dragged away and asks what I’m saying one last time. I stay where I am, but I repeat at the same volume. She seems confused…then her friend, the 6 says something, shaking her head, then they leave. Phuck. One set down.
Set two, I turn away from the last set and walk into that little tucked away dancefloor + bar. Three girls at the bar. 4, 5, 6.5. Deliver the opener. They all turn toward me — good sign. The 6.5 can’t hear what I’m saying (fucking again, these goddamned clubs!), she turns to her friends — they have no idea what I’m saying. Shit. She leans in closer — I’m not leaning in, fuck it, I don’t have to hear shit. I notice that she has a bit of an accent. I do the hairdresser thing, she says no, but then she says that she does her own hair but she’s not a hairdresser. She’s standing a little closer to me. I say that my friend’s a hairdresser. She laughs, but it’s not because of anything I said…she’s just like ‘I’m sorry, I cannot hear anything and my english is also not so good.’
I roll with it and say ‘all right, I’m gonna guess where you’re from…’
She’s like ‘okay, you get three guesses….’
Is this a shit test already? I have no clue, but I just don’t respond and I say
She shakes her head ‘nope.’ Now, this isn’t flat or anything, we’re having a conversation.
She seems shocked by that one, and I smirk.
‘Okay, you didn’t it in three guesses!’
I feel like this is some sort of frame battle…
‘Well what stupid unguessable country are you from?’
‘I’m from Switzerland!’
‘Hahaha no wonder I didn’t notice.’
See, I think that’s a funny line. Problem is I’m pretty sure she didn’t even hear it. For fuck’s sake.
I keep plowing.
‘That’s interesting…..a girl I went out with a few years ago was Swiss.’
‘Yeah, she was fucking crazy.’
‘Yeah, all swiss are crazy…for sure.’
I notice now that the 5 has left and the 4 is just standing there. So I try to get the uggo involved like, you know ‘who are you…blah blah blah.’ Naturally, no one can hear shit. And that’s when I’m like ‘well, this set is fucked if I don’t get them somewhere to talk and I’m not there, so I should just leave…but not without trying first.’
‘You’re right, I can’t hear anything, we should go over there and talk.’
‘Oh I don’t know, I think I’m going to stay over here with my friends.’
Her and uggo join her friends — there’s more than just three — on the little dancefloor. She turns
‘but maybe we’ll run into you later.’
I nod. Hey, at least she was polite. Two sets down.
I walk all the way to the other end of that strip. I’m wary now, because I realize that several sets of 3 girls, really are likely sets of like 9 girls, and so I try to make sure that I don’t re-approach a set that has people I’ve already opened in it.
So near the bar, I see these three chicks who LOOK LIKE a 6, 7, 8…young, college age. Sweet. Of course, I don’t follow the three second rule. I sit at the bar, nursing my water like a chode champion for like two or three minutes (thankfully some fatter chode obscures their view of me). Then, I charge in. But then they turn around….house of horrors…subtract two points, they’re all older than I’d like. Fat and age have dragged the 6 down to like a 4. Fuck it, I’m here now.
The 4, however, becomes sort of an anchor. I talk to her about stuff. Like, I do the hairdresser thing — she’s not a hairdresser. She divulges that all of them are nurses. She does stuff, like she leans in close, she touches me sometimes. She talks about how her and the group got trashed last night (I don’t give a shit btw). I try to anchor myself to how I feel talking to them, because I need to transfer it. I mean, I talk about a lot of sex-related stuff. I weaved together a story (I’m not sure if it’s DHV yet….) from various other stories…it involves getting a blowjob from a friend in a car, then twenty minutes later — post blowjay — crashing said car as a way to avoid being in a relationship with her because she was so crazy. I’m not sure what to make of the reaction to the story…on the one hand, she was like geez, and sort of admonished me about ‘drunk driving.’ On the other hand….I kinda think the reaction wasn’t bad. I’m not sure. So then, I notice that their group has swelled to like 7 or 8 people.
A 4.5 is on the outskirts, so I think to myself — well, maybe what I need to learn how to do is to get all of these people on my side and talking to me. So I walk up to her and I’m like ‘hey, I’m gonna be like you. I’m just gonna chill here. I’m gonna stand with my drink.’
She kinda laughs at it.
Then I’m like ‘so what do you do in this group?’
‘Like…who are you to them?’
‘I don’t know what you mean…’
‘Like…what fucking value do you throw out there, what do you bring to the table? Are you the goth chick, the crazy chick — is that you?’
She says no, and then I ask who the crazy one is. She talks about some woman with blonde hair who isn’t there atm. Whatevz. She says she’s the mother hen, then I ask one of her friends — 6 (she was an 8 10-11 years ago I’m sure). Blah blah blah. Blondie shows up. Blondie is like a 5.5-6. I talk to blondie for awhile. She’s cool. They all mention that they have husbands and kids. I don’t really care…for some reason I doubt that would stop them from cheating on them. She talks about a plane ride or something and how you have to have alcohol on planes. As someone who’s deathly afraid of flying, I just say that Ativan + Ondansetron + Clonidine is the only cocktail for flight. She laughs. I tell the same car blowjob story to Blondie and she laughs, and is like ‘wow…no, I’ve never done anything like that.’ Blondie is leaning in close, laughing at my jokes, but after awhile I’m like ‘I didn’t come out here to try and fuck some old ladies. I could already do that. Whatever group theory lesson I’ve learned here, I’ve already learned.’ I eject. 4 gives me a hug. Yck.
3 sets, yay!
Nah, I’m not done yet.
The club’s logistics are piss poor, so I go downstairs. Immediately, I see three HB’s…7, 7, 8 at the end of the bar. Here we go. 10 feet away, the bartender gets their attention and starts talking. Bad time…I make a stealth circuit to the bathroom, take care of business, and decide to reapproach. That smooth motherfucker is still talking to them. I’m not confident enough to come into this kind of situation, so I just start walking out.
Then, I notice a few girls sitting in a round seat. Here goes nothing. I turn, 45 degree, body language solid (or it feels that way). Then, I realize that the set is 9 girls…cougar/puma mix, it’s a 6-8 spread. I get their attention with the opener, then I single one of them out for the hairdresser comment. She says ‘no,’ and then I say the typical ‘oh my friend blah blah blah…’ Then, I add ‘yeah….she’s crazy though….you seem crazy too.’ She leans forward (unsure if she’s tooling or joking or whatever) ‘ooooh yeaaah, I’m crazy…’ (makes the loco gesture) ‘…for real.’
And then….idkwtf, I just laugh and eject.
Well hey, 4 sets, right?
Nah. FUCK THAT. Can’t leave on a bitch out note.
I go to another venue.
I finally follow the 3 second rule and just open the first few bitches I see. Nothing special here, a 5, and a 5.5. They actually take time to consider the opener, and before I can do anything else, two previously unseen girls swoop in and off they walk. The 5.5 lingered for a second.
I leave that place and just walk down the street to another place. I walk throughout the place — downstairs is fairly empty, close-knit social gatherings of like 9-10 people, so I just go upstairs. Same thing, but I notice a single set, and I make brief eye contact with a girl in the set. And I….just keep walking. I start descending the stairs, and I think ‘for fuck’s sake. Okay, I’m going to go to the restroom, splash my face, come back and open that set.’ I do this, however, by the time I go back…those two girls are walking down the stairs.
Fuck it, this set is impossible but time to try.
I do the opener, and sure enough EYE CONTACT GIRL LINGERS FOR A SECOND….maybe it’s a coincidence, she seemed like she just wanted to know what I was saying. Her friend pulled her away, and then some guy coming up the stairs behind me is like ‘what, what’s up man?’ I just kinda give him the opinion opener. The good thing about it is that the whole ‘two girls asked me for weed..’ makes it seem honest.
Now, I go BACK to the other venue. I see a two set. Here we go. Two set, one girl is a 7 and the other girl is a 6.5. Opinion opener. Now I’m starting to notice that — when people can fucking hear the opener — I’m getting this sort of ‘you have our attention’ vibe. I launch into the hairdresser thing to the 7. She’s not a hairdresser, but I just launch into the ‘crazy’ routine. Then she’s like ‘oh yeah I’m crazy!’
And then I’m like ‘really? see I thought she (indicating 6.5) would be the crazy one.’ They both laugh.
7: ‘what you’re like the first person to think that she would even be crazy!’
6.5: ‘yeah I’m like the little quiet one and -she’s- the crazy one!’
Me: Exactly, I mean…the quiet ones are always truly the craziest. Like…I feel like if I was in a relationship with 6.5, she’d just fucking stab me or something when she inevitably found my mistresses’s texts….whereas you, 7 would you know…yell at me or something.
7: Psh….I would fucking cut your dick off.
….Scraybrain short-circuit, has no idea what to say.
They laugh. Mentally wish I would have done something cooler — was that a shit test? I don’t fucken know man, but I hella reacted lol.
Me: how do you know one another?
Me: Oh yeah…so you probably are a ….
7: SHE’S a hairdresser
Me: Oh hahahahahaah, yeah that makes sense. I see it now!
Then, their friend who apparently left them to talk to the group to our left, shouts something at them.
7: She left us to talk to them!
(6.5 scoots away to talk to the other friend)
7: Now I’m all alone!
I’m still standing there — been rock solid in my body language, and I consider saying something like ‘oh well you have me’ or some shit like that. But I pass. I still think I’m building attraction A2 style.
Me: Man, that sucks. Your life is just dogshit right now.
The 7 laughs.
Then their friend comes in — their friend is obviously the crazy one. But she’s also not so hot…maybe a 5-5.5 (she has braces lol). They stand up and ready to leave. For fuck’s sake, this again? Now I’m convinced I did something wrong.
But I just accept defeat.
‘Yeah, hey nice meeting you guys.’
7: Yeah, it was definitely cool meeting you.
No names, no nothing. Ugh. Oh well, that makes 7 sets. I’m two past my goal. I call it a night.
I’m getting like 0 results lol.
I mean, I’m trying to learn, and occasionally I think some stuff comes to me. Like, this A1 — social hook point — A2. I really think that your transition material gets you to the social hook point. I kinda think that the whole ‘cold read’ is for when you’re close or at the social hook point. So I’m going to try and get a routine for after the opener but before I just bust out the hairdresser thing. I think that will work well. I just can’t think of the right type of social canopener for that phase in the interaction.
Scray! Beggining to look forward to reading your daily week recaps and reading Ya’s and Imm’s inputs. Interesting stuff and the growth is becoming more evident.
I think it’s easier for us (and anyone reading in general) to see Scray’s progress than it is for him, being in the eye of the tornado and all that. The guy’s first FR was about trying to dance up to a 6 and getting sneered at and being the asexual little sidekick of his social circle with no identity. Now he’s approaching 3-sets and holding their attention, and girls in his social circle are treating him like he’s not an insignificant wallflower, he’s teasing HB8Waitresses, etc.
It’s not raining pussy from the sky onto his dick or anything yet, but this is a slow process and there are little improvements going on that will build up over time into something more solid. Building a foundation of social skills as his identity starts to take shape and solidify itself. It will all pay off down the road. I know because I started off worse off than him lol
lol it’s just a shit-test to see if he’s insecure about it or not. It’s probably not even a conscious one, most of the time it isn’t (ie – they aren’t aware that their shit-testing means there’s some tiny bit of attraction to build on).
Here’s some Tyler stuff. There’s an important point in it:
“he suddenly looked at me while I was in the front seat and said, “YOU HAVE GREEN HAIR.” I stared at him blankly. He mentioned that I could stare at him blankly because I know my hair isn’t green, then asked me about an insecurity I have. I said that I haven’t been laid yet at World Summit. He then proceeded for a few minutes to stare at me while saying stuff like, “ARE YOU SERIOUS. YOU ARE IN LAS VEGAS, WHERE GIRLS GO TO GET LAID AND YOU CAN’T EVEN GET FUCKING LAID? YOU AT A PICKUP SEMINAR IN VEEEGAS AND YOU CAN’T GET LAID? DUDES ARE GETTING LAID LEFT AND RIGHT AND YOU CAN’T EVEN GET FUCKING LAID, WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU? YOU LITTLE BITCH? ALL THOSE GIRLS AT THE CLUB DANCING WHILE THEY ARE DRUNK OFF THEIR ASSES AND YOU CAN’T EVEN PICK ONE OF THEM AND TAKE THEM HOME? THAT MEANS YOU AREN’T ATTRACTIVE.”"
“He did the “green hair” thing because THATS YOUR BASELINE… you get that, right? Like he yells at you in front of a crowd of people like, “YOU HAVE GREEN HAIR” and you’re just like, “Uhh…u just think no… wtf lol” and maybe you kinda laugh but really, you’re just like.. wtf are you talkin bout man… Becuase, as he said… YOU DONT HAVE GREEN HAIR… and it’s like really really really really really fucking obvious… because well, you either have green hair or you fucking don’t lmao.
But THEN… he calls you out for something that YOUR NOT CERTAIN ABOUT… he yells at you in front of everyone JUST LIKE BEFORE… the ONLY DIFFERENCE…. is that this time it’s about something you’re insecure about holmes. This time, it’s about something that isn’t, in your eyes, as black and white as “green hair or no green hair”…
In your mind and heart you KNOW FOR A FACT that you don’t have green hair, so like it doens’t fucking matter what he says.
THe point is- whether or not you got laid at world summit doesn’t fuckin matter… You either KNOW that you are attractive or you don’t … and if you KNOW that you are attractive… then the whole thing with Tyler yelling at you in front of everyone wouldn’t effect you…. it would have the SAME effect on you as him telling you that you have green hair.”
And from Tyler: “Lastly as Bhuddagames said, the point of the exercise was to show you exactly the difference between a shit test where you feel secure with yourself, and a shit test where your sense of certainty isn’t as strong. It wasn’t a random barrating!! The girls will fuck with you faaaaaar worse, as I personally have girls saying all sorts of super mean things to me before fucking me on a weekly basis.
I’m often hard on students because THE GIRLS will be harder.
Personally girls have been really fucken cruel with me over the years — like many girls I sleep with say the cruelest shit to me beforehand.
I had one girl recently push me into the couch and say over and over that she only fucks tall guys and that I’m a “miniature man” and too small to fuck. The girl is very very hot so you know it’s likely true she’s only fucked tall guys before me, etc.
Other girls will call me out on losing hair, being pale, etc. The shit is absolutely absurd — it’s only because my reaction is the same as if they yelled “GREEN HAIR!” (ie: totally indifferent) that I wind up getting laid and even having the same girls getting all needy after.
The bottom line though is WORDS ARE JUST WORDS. It’s a bunch of noises coming from a person’s throat. “Like chirping” as Julien would say. Irrelevent.”
Her telling him he’s too short should register as significant as her telling him “you’re perfect except for your green hair wahhhh”. The only reason this story hits guys on an emotional level is because most guys are insecure about their height or have friends who are, etc so it’s a sore spot. And her subconscious knows that. Does her hypergamy want a pussy who lets things a SILLY INTERNET GIRL says emotionally devastate him to his core? How is he supposed to handle the shit the world will throw at them as a couple if some text sent by a silly Internet girl he doesn’t even know rocks him?
Her hypergamy wants the guy that knows that any shit she gives him, or anyone else gives him, is just irrelevant chirping and won’t deter him from his goals.
It’s Friday. Go out tonight and hit on a tall girl lol
FR -> Thurs:
So, go to school event at a bar. Jennifer is there. I don’t have much interaction history with her, which is kinda cool cause I haven’t fucked up enough to LJBF outright yet. Jennifer is like…a 6-6.5. She’s the friend from the last field report that I said I was going to make up this rumor, blah blah blah (that’s probably my only real interaction with her).
I sit next to her at the table with everyone, and I kind of open with small talk. But within about thirty seconds, I’m asking whether her friend asked her about the rumor and told her about me loving her. She blinks and is like ‘no she didn’t tell me about the second thing.’
I just repeat it ‘oh yeah, I’m in love with you,’ and lean back with a shrug and smile. She nods and laughs. I just sit there looking at her for a moment.
Me: Look, don’t make it weird. You’re making it weird.
Her: Nooo, I don’t think I’d make it weird. You’re the one who brought it being weird up.
Me: …listen you’re just going to have to deal with the fact that we’re soulmates and we’re probably gonna bone like 6 times a week.
Her: (laughs) Okay, well I don’t think you’re in love with me.
Me: ARE YOU SAYING I’M A LIAR AND THAT YOU HATE AMERICA? That’s disgusting. If I didn’t love you so god. damned. much………
She laughs, shaking her head. I’m actually unsure if it means anything though, because I mean…unlike most girls, she actually seems pretty socially savvy, so I discount chuckles/laughs as IOIs. But whatever, fuck it, I’m kind of having a good time anyway.
Me: It’s kind of a big deal. So……we should probably hang out.
Her: We’re not hanging out, all of us now?
In the past, I would have just given up — even, especially, in the context of a social circle. But I’m just like….fuck it, man. What other choice do I have?
Me: Nah, I meant like just us hanging out.
I said it strongly, I remember that. She nods.
Her: Okay, sure.
In the middle of the conversation I just get her number — it feels much more natural to ask for someone’s number in the context of a social circle. And then…I just kinda, lose courage.
Me: Yeah, I mean while I’m IN love with you…I just want to be friends though.
Mentally I roll my eyes at myself like wtf you piece of shit. She slowly nods, ‘oooh ok, well I don’t think you’re actually in love with me.’
Her: Wait, do you think that love is objective?
Inner debate, do I answer honestly, is she giving me some sort of ninja shit test, wtfidk. For now, I just answer honestly….it’s just this spiel about ‘believing in belief for its own sake and how that’s important to the human experience.’ This sparks a big conversation, and I kind of regret what I’ve done. Because previously, the two chodes sitting across from us didn’t exist. But now, she asks them the question — they jump in, agreeing with what she says = that it isn’t. She asks the waitress, who by the damned way is a freaking 8 — I’ll probably go back there just to try and game her soon. The waitress agrees. It’s everyone vs. me. I just kind of shrug and say ‘ah well, I think believing in something higher than yourself, just for its own sake — regardless of whether it’s true — is a powerful motivating force in life.’
She sits back and says ‘oh don’t get me wrong, I’m a hopeless romantic.’
Me: So then what are we arguing about?
Her: blah blah blah blah I’m smart.
I kinda just sit back, because I think arguing logically with a girl is pointless. At this point, I just kind of downshift, figuring I royally fucked up and misread everything. By now there’s like four other guys surrounding this girl with me because most of the other people have left. Her and two other guys go outside to smoke, she invites me to come along…
Her: You can come with us if you want.
I have always hated when people have put any invitation to anything like this. And I always have a similar — maybe dickish — response to it.
Me: Yaaaa, it’s a free country after all comrade.
Her: Well…I was just saying, you can come if you like.
Me: Maybe…it’s cold out there.
For awhile I just sit and talk to the other dudes, but eventually we all go out there to part ways. But you know how that goes…takes like half an hour, mainly because all the guys stand around the girl…it’s like some sort of stupid fucking mexican standoff. However, two of the guys did get into a discussion about something or another that was really boring and technical, which left me and her free to talk about stupid shit like the best weapons to use in a zombie apocalypse. After awhile, I just say I’m leaving, get hugs from her and handshakes from everyone else, and go.
Not really a cold set, but ehhhh……this shit just comes out in everything I do now, so whatever.
So, I text her today: hey this is scray, i live in your phone now.
Her: Hey Scray, a phone is a weird abode.
Me: Ur a weird abode.
Her: Am not
Me: Rodrigo says yes (fake fiance I made up)
Her: Rodrigo lies
So, up until this point the texts aren’t exactly lightning speed back and forth…each takes like, an hour between responses. She’s taking awhile to respond. She could be at work, but idk…I just take it to mean she’s not too into it.
Me: u raging this weekend or what
Her: Not really, except for Sunday obviously…what about you?
Me: Nm just planning our ice-breaking first date.
I sent the last one about five hours later, near midnight…so no response as of yet. But, regardless of if there ever is a response…everything I did feels wrong, and I feel like I need to read about text game, which I would have if I wasn’t so busy Friday with other shit. I feel glad that I was able to communicate -some- sort of direct interest. How fucking gay is that. Lots of self-discovery
Friday night sucked dick. Went and hung out at this packed bar. Couldn’t hear shit. The group of people there that I knew are mostly lukewarm to me, save one or two. And ‘shut the fuck up’ girl from weeks ago made an appearance lol. I didn’t open any sets there…just felt so out of my element and I didn’t want to drink. I brought a friend with me there to hang, but neither of us had much fun. I did one thing that was fun.
Chode: hey bro, I don’t mean to bother you here at the bar, but could you take a picture? (points to his group)
Me: Sure brah!
(Takes phone, turns phone around, gets good angle, then just steps in front of group takes picture of self. Group laughs, Scray walks up to group leader and hands him the phone)
Chode: hahahah, now take a real one.
Me: (deadpan) No.
My beliefs about my height are starting to change. I mean, short and fat — rapidly slimming down now though — me has zero-game options. Now, I don’t like those options so much, sure. I mean, I remember a Heartiste post ‘I didn’t need game to land my wife.’ Sure enough, the first and second pics are EXACTLY the types that, without doing anything, will take to me. I just can’t bring myself to do anything with less than like a 5.
The social circle stuff is new to me. I definitely feel like it’s going to be important, because I already can feel the pushback against me rising up in the group. The main thing about social circle to me, seems to be about state. And my state is still pretty weak. Working out helps a little but, ehhh….I really just think I’m gonna need to build up a ton of social experience — cold approaching maybe — and at least SOME success before I have a steadier state.
I think with some of your texting its like your asking too much out of the woman right away. With her I would stop texting her till next weekend, then send her a whats up, and work on double entendres and plausible deniability… It probably wont lead anywhere, but you are already in LJBF territory. Talking about sex in a fun and interesting way is entertaining to women and gets them going, then you work on figuring out a way to get over to her place. Whether it is for drinks a movie or cuddling. Just remember though, don’t waste too much time over at her place if you know nothing is gonna happen. If nothing happens after a half hour I usually go in for a slow seductive kiss and try to escalate, and if you get any resistance make up an excuse and leave. Also, don’t ever take advice from women about women, even if their advice is well intentioned it cant even be wrong. Meaning, success is determined by either succeeding or failing, the worst thing is to leave someone in limbo between not knowing if they are succeeding or failing which is what women are doing when they give advice.
Oh for sure I know I completely fucked up this interaction, although I’m still unsure where I went wrong. I can’t really find much about social circle text game (if there’s even a difference). But again, you’re totally right…her reply is a total LJBF hint:
‘Rodrigo says I shouldn’t date, but he’s ok with me hanging out with friends.’
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh fawwwwwwk. My plan now is just non-respond/bail.
I’m definitely itching to see what Yareally has to say about these last two FR’s though.
No more txts to that one, she’s friend zoned ya. Or rather, you friend zoned yourself. There was a point where you were good and probably could’ve pulled it off but your brain shit a brick and you pulled back and that incongruency pretty much doomed ya lol
It’s okay, practicing game is like chasing someone riding away on a bicycle. Down the road you’ll be able to catch them a lot of the time but at the start you’ll chase them and get a little closer than last time and then gas out and watch them speed off.
No more txting her. Txt her back flirt (hold your frame) if she txts you (my mentality is “I am a flirt. If you contact me, I will flirt with you, that’s how it goes. If you don’t want to flirt with me, stop txting me, because I am incorrigible and 100% believe that I will eventually get you.” If she keeps txting me ill usually win her over (strongest frame wins))…but don’t txt her first.
She probably won’t txt or will out of politeness to invite you to some group event. If that happens that’s cool, the way to recover and get her is to basically demonstrate a shit-ton of value (be awesome around her and in your group and hit on other girls around her etc) until her hypergamy forces her to chase you…but 1) this can take a long time lol and 2) you can’t demonstrate the amount of value you now need via txt, only in person, so txting her has ZERO benefit for you from a logical % play-the-odds standpoint.
So if she txts you, flirt as if you assume it’s on, if she invites you out, own her group and mack on other girls in front of her, otherwise no txting her.
FR analysiseseses are comin, it was a busy weekend for me sorry lol. I’ll link em for everyone when they’re up
lol seriously, when gables said I get a ton of IOI’s I was like ‘wtf.’ I mean, I guess I can’t convey how girls say things to me — esp cold approach — because a lot of the time it’s just said flatly. idk, the goal is to get to 1000 approaches and see how I feel about game then. What’s funny is that I haven’t even made it to 30 sets yet lol….
What’s interesting to note though is that when I started undergrad I didn’t know anyone, and I had no idea about the PUA community. My natural instinct was just to cold approach people — mostly girls. I cold approached one girl, completely fucked up the interaction by getting into a long-winded debate about Kerry v. Bush. Cold approached another girl and she became my gf for years.
What would my life be like now if I had just kept cold approaching back then?