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A Fool And His Money

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darkhorse
on December 13, 2013 at 9:53 am
Original Link

@yareally

Curious how you would handle this situation. Went out last night, hung out with a group at a high end nightclub. Girls at the table are very pretty, hard 8s, five of them. Guys in the group are kind of weak. Notice very pretty blonde (taller, thinner Bree Olson) in our group get man handled by very aggressive guy early in the night. Early 20s, hard 8. Her resistance level was enough low to trigger my taking a mental note of the situation. She shakes him off. Very late in the night introduce myself, we start talking, topic is how guys at a high end places like this are looking to fuck and women are really looking for validation. She agrees, and five minutes into the conversation tells me she’s been married for two years and has secretly fucked 15 guys in the timespan. My vibe is that’s cool, I’m not going to really judge you for that. She says she a bad girl and knows her marriage is going to end, and she’s ok with fucking guys once and that’s that. She says she screens our clingy guys, so it never gets to the point where it’s a problem. Thinking to myself, ok, well she’s DTF. After about 15 minutes invested in the conversation, I tell her let’s leave together now, she says she can’t because her husband is coming back within 24 hours, and she doesn’t entertain logistics like that. I get her number and bounce immediately. She’s hot, wouldn’t mind banging her. Haven’t texted her yet, thinking about holding off until Monday, since weekend is likely husband time, and maybe too early to text. Interesting experience.


  • YaReally
    on December 13, 2013 at 11:10 am
    Original Link

    @darkhorse

    Solid. Don’t txt till next weekend, but don’t delete her number (lol, don’t toss away the secret line of communication she extended to you so that you can arrange a tryst without any of your friends knowing you’re even communicating, wtf lol).

    She viewed you as Secret Society, that’s why she opened up to you, which is great ’cause it means you’re putting out “sex-worthy man” non-judgemental sexual vibes. She wouldn’t be having that convo with a guy who seemed like he’d judge her or who didn’t have a sexual vibe like he’d be a fun romp and understand her situation.

    Usually in those situs in the initial convo I drop in a lot of comfort building stuff about how people in society are too repressed and ashamed about sex and that I don’t really believe in monogamy etc. so she knows I’m on the same page as her and won’t give her drama.

    The funny part to me is her mentioning that she screens clingy guys…’cause from quizzing the taken girls I’ve hooked up with, the hardest part for them isn’t finding guys who’ll fuck them knowing she has a BF/husband, it’s finding guys who will fuck them knowing that AND not fall in love and get all clingy and annoying and txt her too much and risk getting her caught or try to steal her from her husband etc. lol Like that’s an actual huge problem for them, the same way a chick you cheated with showing up banging on your apartment door drunk when your GF is there with you would be a problem.

    Anyway, this is a standard by-the-books thing. You shouldn’t have any problem banging her out…just respect that she has a hubby and has to be secret-secret and can’t have long txt convos and doesn’t WANT frequent txts from you, and probably can’t meet up more than once every 2 weeks or once a month because she has to be a ninja and needs you to understand that she’s not going to be as available as a normal chick.

    She knows who you are, she’ll remember you, she doesn’t pour that conversation out to every random, and she warned you her hubby will be home within 24hrs. Don’t txt her till like Friday before noon (around 10-11am), where you know she’ll be at work and not around her hubby and you can possibly have a txt convo over her lunch hour, or Friday evening where she can pretend it’s one of her girlfriends txting.

    I would txt her “hey it’s darkhorse. Save me as “Anna” lol” as my first txt. It’s not asking any response from her, it’s not being too eager, it’s not trying to arrange a meet-up, but it’s letting her know “I understand your situ and I’m cool with it” and putting the ball in her court for her to say “lol how are you?” and for you to proceed from there. If she doesn’t respond for like 2 weeks, then she’s not interested, but give her a couple weeks to reply (odds are she’ll reply at noon if you txt her in the morning, or that night sometime when she has some privacy).

    When she replies, that means she’s got a window of opportunity to have a private txt convo (she won’t reply unless she has a solid few minutes that she can have a quick chat) so don’t play the “take 24hrs to respond” game with this one…whenever she txts you, reply IMMEDIATELY, because she has logistical shit going on that she’s working around.

    Anyway, so when she replies, skip all the small-talk (that part of Tilikum’s post I agree with) and just get right to the point of asking if she’s free this weekend. Don’t mention her hubby, ’cause that just re-enforces that she’s cheating in her mind, treat her like a single girl who just has a really busy work schedule. If she’s not, handle it like it’s totally cool to you, don’t react butt-hurt at all, and she’ll probably offer up when she IS free. If she IS free, clear out your schedule and make sure you’re available to hook up with her ’cause she probably only gets the chance now and then and she wants someone reliable when she needs her fun.

    You can probably skip a day 2 with her, every night out with a guy having drinks is another chance of getting caught being out with another man by one of her husband’s friends. These chicks are usually cool with, when they have a free night, you pitching to just come over for a drink…you still probably can’t say “want to come over and fuck?” because believe it or not even a girl like this could have some ASD trigger lol, she still wants to feel like a special flower.

    But the catch is that suggesting anything “date” like will make her worry that you’re going to be a clinger trying to date her…so don’t offer to cook her dinner or watch a DVD or anything. Just go with inviting her over for a drink or for lunch (I had one girl who’d come over on her lunch hours to bang ’cause it was convenient for her). She knows what it means.

    Same time tho, if she gets flirty via txt, go flirty too and instead invite her over “to have some fun…see if you can sneak out in that dress from last week, I’ve been thinking about it all week”, ’cause that’s her signal that it’s okay to say that kind of thing (like she’s communicating “look I just want to fuck, are we on the same page?”).

    On the flip side, if she seems totally 100% non-flirty, don’t take that as an indicator of disinterest…her not txting you at ALL is disinterest. Her txting you very clinical and non-flirty is her covering her ass incase her hubby spies on her txt convos one day, so in that situ just keep going but avoid being flirty and just trust that she’s txting you because she wants to bang.

    Anyway, hope that helps lol Fuck her good and she’ll come back to you…15 guys tells me she either has a high sex drive or she hasn’t been fucked the way she wants to yet.

    Usually with married chicks they’re bored of the gay romantic half-dead vanilla sex they’ve been having for 2 years, and the other 15 guys were probably one-timers because they weren’t great lays, so I would test quick for if she’s into rough sex…my usual M.O. is as soon as she shows up at the door, pin her against the wall (remember to put your hand behind her head so you don’t bonk it lol done that a few times lol) and makeout and pull a fistful of her hair as you kiss her neck (no leaving marks remember, especially there) and see how she responds…if she’s into it, then slip your other hand up to her throat (don’t choke hard, and make sure you google how to safely choke obviously), but what I like to do is just hold my hand there in a claw shape loose so it’s holding her there but I’m not actually gripping her neck…it’s a close enough effect for the first time for her to know that if she wants it rough you’re not afraid to go rough, so if she responds well to that, then from there be super dominant with her…don’t leave ANY marks, but defile her lol I like to throat-fuck them (start slow and test for how rough she wants it) ’cause it doesn’t leave any marks but she gets to feel dominated and cry as she gags and all that which is probably something she’s not doing with her husband.

    You can take it from there lol

    Good luck, for what it’s worth: to me from my experience with these situs, you have a 100% green light on this and it’s a super routine operation that should be easy as fuck to pull off. Have fun!

    And for the love of god, whatever you do, do NOT drunk txt her this weekend. Write her # down on a piece of paper and hide it and delete her # from your phone, or download a drunk dialing app that blocks numbers on your phone so you can’t drunk dial them.

    Also if you can avoid it, don’t fuck her at her place. That’s playing too risky a game, ’cause you never know what buddy will do if he comes home from his business trip early to surprise her or some shit.

    Also don’t tell her any details about yourself beyond what she knows now. If she asks you shit just be like “let’s keep things mysterious, it’s more fun that way”. Also see if you can figure out who her husband is with some Googling/Facebook stalking, etc. and try to find pics of him and/or what he does for work and where etc. The more info you know about him the better, in terms of safety. Is he a nerdy beta schlub, or is he a gun collector, ya know? lol


    • darkhorse
      on December 13, 2013 at 12:38 pm
      Original Link

      great points. was conceptualizing she viewed me as secret society too. wanted to make sure my follow up communication was congruent with her expectations. thx for the technical breakdown on how to progress. very helpful. new territory for me and view it as unlocking a new level.


      • YaReally
        on December 13, 2013 at 12:59 pm
        Original Link

        No prob, it’s very familiar territory to me lol It’ll work out fine, just don’t get your ass kicked by hubby and understand that she’ll throw you under the bus to avoid getting in trouble. Play smart lol


        • YaReally
          on December 13, 2013 at 1:05 pm
          Original Link

          Also it would surprise most people how many taken chicks are as casual about banging dudes on the side as this girl when they believe you won’t judge them…like, seemingly quality women they would never expect who seem like perfect angels in relationships that seem perfect and are full of Facebook Likes and “omg u guys are soooo cute together!!” well-wishes from friends and family.

          But they only unlock that level and reveal that shit to Secret Society guys. The rest of the normals have no idea that level even exists, let alone how to get access to it, and will vehemently deny it extends beyond drunk bar sluts because it would fuck with their reality too much…if they accept that most girls love cock, how will they ever find that Madonna unicorn they’ve banked their entire future on? It’s a lot easier to just guffaw and chalk stories like this up to slutty bar skanks being whores…that way they never have to worry, ’cause when they find their unicorn she’ll be different. …just like every guy with one-itis thinks his girl is lol


          • Scray
            on December 13, 2013 at 5:11 pm
            Original Link

            Ya this is the part that I think is beginning to fuck with my head. Hard pill to swallow. First….the M/W complex is way more common than I thought and from all information and belief results in most dudes being pretty terribad in bed. Second of all….chix lie a lot, but that’s because lol….if they tell you the truth — they trust you and everything — but holy shit man. The stuff I’ve shared with these chix and the sides they show and the way things have changed….most guys are better off just being lied to. How the fuck would they handle it? Srs. Rough times rite atm….



A Fool And His Money

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darkhorse
on December 13, 2013 at 9:53 am
Original Link

@yareally

Curious how you would handle this situation. Went out last night, hung out with a group at a high end nightclub. Girls at the table are very pretty, hard 8s, five of them. Guys in the group are kind of weak. Notice very pretty blonde (taller, thinner Bree Olson) in our group get man handled by very aggressive guy early in the night. Early 20s, hard 8. Her resistance level was enough low to trigger my taking a mental note of the situation. She shakes him off. Very late in the night introduce myself, we start talking, topic is how guys at a high end places like this are looking to fuck and women are really looking for validation. She agrees, and five minutes into the conversation tells me she’s been married for two years and has secretly fucked 15 guys in the timespan. My vibe is that’s cool, I’m not going to really judge you for that. She says she a bad girl and knows her marriage is going to end, and she’s ok with fucking guys once and that’s that. She says she screens our clingy guys, so it never gets to the point where it’s a problem. Thinking to myself, ok, well she’s DTF. After about 15 minutes invested in the conversation, I tell her let’s leave together now, she says she can’t because her husband is coming back within 24 hours, and she doesn’t entertain logistics like that. I get her number and bounce immediately. She’s hot, wouldn’t mind banging her. Haven’t texted her yet, thinking about holding off until Monday, since weekend is likely husband time, and maybe too early to text. Interesting experience.


  • YaReally
    on December 13, 2013 at 11:10 am
    Original Link

    @darkhorse

    Solid. Don’t txt till next weekend, but don’t delete her number (lol, don’t toss away the secret line of communication she extended to you so that you can arrange a tryst without any of your friends knowing you’re even communicating, wtf lol).

    She viewed you as Secret Society, that’s why she opened up to you, which is great ’cause it means you’re putting out “sex-worthy man” non-judgemental sexual vibes. She wouldn’t be having that convo with a guy who seemed like he’d judge her or who didn’t have a sexual vibe like he’d be a fun romp and understand her situation.

    Usually in those situs in the initial convo I drop in a lot of comfort building stuff about how people in society are too repressed and ashamed about sex and that I don’t really believe in monogamy etc. so she knows I’m on the same page as her and won’t give her drama.

    The funny part to me is her mentioning that she screens clingy guys…’cause from quizzing the taken girls I’ve hooked up with, the hardest part for them isn’t finding guys who’ll fuck them knowing she has a BF/husband, it’s finding guys who will fuck them knowing that AND not fall in love and get all clingy and annoying and txt her too much and risk getting her caught or try to steal her from her husband etc. lol Like that’s an actual huge problem for them, the same way a chick you cheated with showing up banging on your apartment door drunk when your GF is there with you would be a problem.

    Anyway, this is a standard by-the-books thing. You shouldn’t have any problem banging her out…just respect that she has a hubby and has to be secret-secret and can’t have long txt convos and doesn’t WANT frequent txts from you, and probably can’t meet up more than once every 2 weeks or once a month because she has to be a ninja and needs you to understand that she’s not going to be as available as a normal chick.

    She knows who you are, she’ll remember you, she doesn’t pour that conversation out to every random, and she warned you her hubby will be home within 24hrs. Don’t txt her till like Friday before noon (around 10-11am), where you know she’ll be at work and not around her hubby and you can possibly have a txt convo over her lunch hour, or Friday evening where she can pretend it’s one of her girlfriends txting.

    I would txt her “hey it’s darkhorse. Save me as “Anna” lol” as my first txt. It’s not asking any response from her, it’s not being too eager, it’s not trying to arrange a meet-up, but it’s letting her know “I understand your situ and I’m cool with it” and putting the ball in her court for her to say “lol how are you?” and for you to proceed from there. If she doesn’t respond for like 2 weeks, then she’s not interested, but give her a couple weeks to reply (odds are she’ll reply at noon if you txt her in the morning, or that night sometime when she has some privacy).

    When she replies, that means she’s got a window of opportunity to have a private txt convo (she won’t reply unless she has a solid few minutes that she can have a quick chat) so don’t play the “take 24hrs to respond” game with this one…whenever she txts you, reply IMMEDIATELY, because she has logistical shit going on that she’s working around.

    Anyway, so when she replies, skip all the small-talk (that part of Tilikum’s post I agree with) and just get right to the point of asking if she’s free this weekend. Don’t mention her hubby, ’cause that just re-enforces that she’s cheating in her mind, treat her like a single girl who just has a really busy work schedule. If she’s not, handle it like it’s totally cool to you, don’t react butt-hurt at all, and she’ll probably offer up when she IS free. If she IS free, clear out your schedule and make sure you’re available to hook up with her ’cause she probably only gets the chance now and then and she wants someone reliable when she needs her fun.

    You can probably skip a day 2 with her, every night out with a guy having drinks is another chance of getting caught being out with another man by one of her husband’s friends. These chicks are usually cool with, when they have a free night, you pitching to just come over for a drink…you still probably can’t say “want to come over and fuck?” because believe it or not even a girl like this could have some ASD trigger lol, she still wants to feel like a special flower.

    But the catch is that suggesting anything “date” like will make her worry that you’re going to be a clinger trying to date her…so don’t offer to cook her dinner or watch a DVD or anything. Just go with inviting her over for a drink or for lunch (I had one girl who’d come over on her lunch hours to bang ’cause it was convenient for her). She knows what it means.

    Same time tho, if she gets flirty via txt, go flirty too and instead invite her over “to have some fun…see if you can sneak out in that dress from last week, I’ve been thinking about it all week”, ’cause that’s her signal that it’s okay to say that kind of thing (like she’s communicating “look I just want to fuck, are we on the same page?”).

    On the flip side, if she seems totally 100% non-flirty, don’t take that as an indicator of disinterest…her not txting you at ALL is disinterest. Her txting you very clinical and non-flirty is her covering her ass incase her hubby spies on her txt convos one day, so in that situ just keep going but avoid being flirty and just trust that she’s txting you because she wants to bang.

    Anyway, hope that helps lol Fuck her good and she’ll come back to you…15 guys tells me she either has a high sex drive or she hasn’t been fucked the way she wants to yet.

    Usually with married chicks they’re bored of the gay romantic half-dead vanilla sex they’ve been having for 2 years, and the other 15 guys were probably one-timers because they weren’t great lays, so I would test quick for if she’s into rough sex…my usual M.O. is as soon as she shows up at the door, pin her against the wall (remember to put your hand behind her head so you don’t bonk it lol done that a few times lol) and makeout and pull a fistful of her hair as you kiss her neck (no leaving marks remember, especially there) and see how she responds…if she’s into it, then slip your other hand up to her throat (don’t choke hard, and make sure you google how to safely choke obviously), but what I like to do is just hold my hand there in a claw shape loose so it’s holding her there but I’m not actually gripping her neck…it’s a close enough effect for the first time for her to know that if she wants it rough you’re not afraid to go rough, so if she responds well to that, then from there be super dominant with her…don’t leave ANY marks, but defile her lol I like to throat-fuck them (start slow and test for how rough she wants it) ’cause it doesn’t leave any marks but she gets to feel dominated and cry as she gags and all that which is probably something she’s not doing with her husband.

    You can take it from there lol

    Good luck, for what it’s worth: to me from my experience with these situs, you have a 100% green light on this and it’s a super routine operation that should be easy as fuck to pull off. Have fun!

    And for the love of god, whatever you do, do NOT drunk txt her this weekend. Write her # down on a piece of paper and hide it and delete her # from your phone, or download a drunk dialing app that blocks numbers on your phone so you can’t drunk dial them.

    Also if you can avoid it, don’t fuck her at her place. That’s playing too risky a game, ’cause you never know what buddy will do if he comes home from his business trip early to surprise her or some shit.

    Also don’t tell her any details about yourself beyond what she knows now. If she asks you shit just be like “let’s keep things mysterious, it’s more fun that way”. Also see if you can figure out who her husband is with some Googling/Facebook stalking, etc. and try to find pics of him and/or what he does for work and where etc. The more info you know about him the better, in terms of safety. Is he a nerdy beta schlub, or is he a gun collector, ya know? lol


    • Scray
      on December 13, 2013 at 5:11 pm
      Original Link

      Ya this is the part that I think is beginning to fuck with my head. Hard pill to swallow. First….the M/W complex is way more common than I thought and from all information and belief results in most dudes being pretty terribad in bed. Second of all….chix lie a lot, but that’s because lol….if they tell you the truth — they trust you and everything — but holy shit man. The stuff I’ve shared with these chix and the sides they show and the way things have changed….most guys are better off just being lied to. How the fuck would they handle it? Srs. Rough times rite atm….



George Zimmerman, Beta Before And Alpha After Photos

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Rollo Tomassi
on December 12, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Original Link

But, but,..wait, I thought,..

Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks was a myth?

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/12/09/hookinguprealities/crackpot-misogyny/


  • Scray
    on December 12, 2013 at 5:15 pm
    Original Link

    What she wrote makes sense to me lol

    Or at least it fits in to what I’ve seen in the real world. Generally, red pill and ‘game’ will help you land the kind of girls who hang out in bars, clubs, etc. BUT…it’s rocket fuel for attracting the rest of girls who are maybe less extroverted (most).

    It’s actually the opposite of what some anti-game people on here seem to believe, IMHO. Girls who are out to party and tend to “follow the tingle” are the most hypergamous and difficult to tame. (Ya but wat, they’re “low-quality” they’re just “hot and dumb,” etc….they tend to be pretty smart tbh lol). A good majority of other girls HAVE NOT encountered this type of thing. They are with their s/o’s b/c of looks or whatever other nonsense.

    It’s almost to the point where I honestly do believe women need to be protected lol. Maybe 10-20% of women are the type who just ride that carousel and deal with it — with some tears of course. But the other girls seem to be more fragile. Maybe it’s because they actually probably….aren’t doing the ABBB, thing? Unsure, but it does seem that way.


    • YaReally
      on December 13, 2013 at 9:40 am
      Original Link

      “Generally, red pill and ‘game’ will help you land the kind of girls who hang out in bars, clubs, etc. BUT…it’s rocket fuel for attracting the rest of girls who are maybe less extroverted (most).”

      Yep. This is why I laugh when anti-game guys talk smack like game only works in the bar on bar sluts, as if it doesn’t absolutely blow the minds of normal girls in the day-time in non-bar environments where 90% of the obstacles (loud music, chaotic enviro, cockblocks, AMOGs, etc.) are removed.

      That’s like saying boxing only works in the ring but wouldn’t work in a REAL fight on the street against a normal person. like, okay there lol

      The only reason we push for guys to go to clubs is that 1) the girls in a nightclub are dolled up the hottest they’ll ever look in their life aside from their wedding day, and 2) there are a fuckton of them packed into a small area so you can rack up a ton of reference experiences quickly VS walking around downtown for 30 min looking for a decent looking girl to approach…plus 3) it toughens you up so that when you decide to do day-game it’s a cakewalk.



George Zimmerman, Beta Before And Alpha After Photos

Original Link

via Heartiste

Rollo Tomassi
on December 12, 2013 at 4:14 pm
Original Link

But, but,..wait, I thought,..

Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks was a myth?

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/12/09/hookinguprealities/crackpot-misogyny/


  • Scray
    on December 12, 2013 at 5:15 pm
    Original Link

    What she wrote makes sense to me lol

    Or at least it fits in to what I’ve seen in the real world. Generally, red pill and ‘game’ will help you land the kind of girls who hang out in bars, clubs, etc. BUT…it’s rocket fuel for attracting the rest of girls who are maybe less extroverted (most).

    It’s actually the opposite of what some anti-game people on here seem to believe, IMHO. Girls who are out to party and tend to “follow the tingle” are the most hypergamous and difficult to tame. (Ya but wat, they’re “low-quality” they’re just “hot and dumb,” etc….they tend to be pretty smart tbh lol). A good majority of other girls HAVE NOT encountered this type of thing. They are with their s/o’s b/c of looks or whatever other nonsense.

    It’s almost to the point where I honestly do believe women need to be protected lol. Maybe 10-20% of women are the type who just ride that carousel and deal with it — with some tears of course. But the other girls seem to be more fragile. Maybe it’s because they actually probably….aren’t doing the ABBB, thing? Unsure, but it does seem that way.


    • YaReally
      on December 13, 2013 at 9:40 am
      Original Link

      “Generally, red pill and ‘game’ will help you land the kind of girls who hang out in bars, clubs, etc. BUT…it’s rocket fuel for attracting the rest of girls who are maybe less extroverted (most).”

      Yep. This is why I laugh when anti-game guys talk smack like game only works in the bar on bar sluts, as if it doesn’t absolutely blow the minds of normal girls in the day-time in non-bar environments where 90% of the obstacles (loud music, chaotic enviro, cockblocks, AMOGs, etc.) are removed.

      That’s like saying boxing only works in the ring but wouldn’t work in a REAL fight on the street against a normal person. like, okay there lol

      The only reason we push for guys to go to clubs is that 1) the girls in a nightclub are dolled up the hottest they’ll ever look in their life aside from their wedding day, and 2) there are a fuckton of them packed into a small area so you can rack up a ton of reference experiences quickly VS walking around downtown for 30 min looking for a decent looking girl to approach…plus 3) it toughens you up so that when you decide to do day-game it’s a cakewalk.



Reader Mailbag: The Fire Was Never There

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immoralgables
on December 9, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Original Link

I am the one who submitted the last section of this post but it legit was for a friend. Plenty of times I’ve submitted my shitty exchanges for the world to bear so no reason to hide behind “the friend” excuse.

As a follow up, nothing materialized further and my buddy was confused as during the PU, the girl was the sweetest, nicest thing ever.

Thanks Heartiste for the write up and analysis, all of it is spot on and none of us had anything close to those kind of responses you mentioned during our initial brainstorming. Us meaning me, my friend and some other buddies I consulted with regarding this situ.

Agree and amplify was the best we came up with but even then, it did feel a bit off. Thanks for clarifying why. This helped me out a lot as well as I’m prone to overgame.

If my friend somehow magically got this girl to come out and meet, I will keep the readership posted but odds are that the lead died a brutal death.

Thanks again.

-IG


  • CH
    on December 9, 2013 at 12:21 pm
    Original Link

    i should also point out that some of your friend’s agree & amplify replies would work better face-to-face rather than through the textual ether. facial expression and vocal tone go a long way to modulating intent.


    • immoralgables
      on December 9, 2013 at 12:28 pm
      Original Link

      Ok makes sense and I will send him an email linking him to this post. Thanks Heartiste.

      In regards to the exchange, it gets hella frustrating when the interaction turns adversarial as it did above and also on my exchange that I posted in your “Comment of the Week: Getting to the Id of it” article.

      Seems like a common trap and curious as to how you would suggest leading an interaction so you and the girl are on the same team. I find that a lot of the “up the alpha” mentality leads one to the path where you and the girl are constantly fighting for who has the stronger frame.

      Is there a general rule of thumb on how to sidestep this or is it better to adhere to “he who has the strongest frame wins?” I’d like to move things away from the adversarial stance if it means getting the lay easier and getting the girl to comply more efficiently.


      • Scray
        on December 9, 2013 at 3:09 pm
        Original Link

        Is there a general rule of thumb on how to sidestep this or is it better to adhere to “he who has the strongest frame wins?”

        The strongest frame wins, but the strongest frame never wins by arguing. Whenever she resists, you need to plow without her knowing you’re plowing. Be like water. She shuts you down when you’re funny but you get on her good side by being a little vulnerable, and when she catches on to that, surprise surprise, who’s pre-selected, and so on and so on until her panties accidentally fell off.

        So if she tries to slow you up or pick you apart or be difficult — never fall into the frame of “you are equal to me and therefore I will engage you like I would engage an equal.” Nah, you aren’t going to argue with her. You’ll just talk about something different, because who gives a shit.

        And do it all with a smile. The sub-communication that turns chix on is ‘ya….I know how to handle you.’ I’d suggest just treating them like children that you absolutely adore.

        I mean, I have so many failed txt exchanges so similar to the one above lol. It was only when I started doing the stuff I’m telling you about that shit became way way easier.


        • YaReally
          on December 9, 2013 at 7:31 pm
          Original Link

          “The strongest frame wins, but the strongest frame never wins by arguing.”

          Well put.


  • YaReally
    on December 9, 2013 at 7:51 pm
    Original Link

    Agree & Amplify was the way to go. Or at least acknowledging she’s called you out accurately VS playing dumb. If she was nice during the initial sarge then probably she told a friend who’s been burned by a PUA about him or googled him or something and pieced together that he’s running game and views game in a negative light (possibly he used a routine that she then found online which destroyed the specialness of how she viewed the “chance” meeting, but even just knowing that he’s running game in general can cause that feeling of having been duped).

    At that point pretending not to know what she’s talking about is like pretending not to have eaten the cookies when the jar is empty beside you and you have cookie crumbs around your lips. It’s insulting to her that you would think she’s too dumb to have caught you, and makes you look ashamed and sneaky because you’re still trying to hide.

    So acknowledge she’s correct, but just make it fun and playful and treat it like it’s no big deal. Strongest frame wins and she might have too much of a hate-on for game for personal reasons to turn things around, but it’s the highest % play.

    Something like “lol no, negs are for super bitchy girls and you were all smiles when we met.” or “no fuzzy hats, don’t worry lol” or “I was going to go with getting drunk and barfing on your shoe, but what you suggested sounds way better.” etc

    The idea is that you’re acknowledging that yes, of course you’re running game, that’s why you had the balls to approach her in the first place, but that 1) you don’t take it or yourself seriously, and 2) it’s not a big deal like she probably thinks it is. Her txt sounds like she views it as manipulative and her finding out ruined her feeling of being “special” because clearly he just runs the same shit on every girl playing the numbers game and doesn’t really like her for HER.

    Something like “lol no fuzzy hats. But I will definitely push you to meet up for dinner, I don’t run into many girls who (something personal about her)”. Like, make her feel special again like oh ya I used game to say hi but then you turned out to be different from other girls.

    Your buddy’s calibration is shit and his txts sound like generic cut n pastes instead of like he’s building any kind of rapport/comfort with the chick, or qualifying her at all. It SOUNDS like he’s just playing a generic numbers game.

    Pickup instructors get called out all the time but girls will still fuck them, because they don’t get fazed and just play it off like it’s not a big deal and make the girl still feel like she’s different from those other girls etc. Hell if your game is right and your frame is solid and you handle the rest of the shit (making her feel special) proper, often she’ll find it hot.

    Tell your buddy to use this as a wake-up call to personalize his interactions more. Less generic numbers game routines and more “getting to know her” stuff…find out her hopes and dreams, let her know you want to meet up because she’s said or done something that you appreciate/like, instead of “wink at mehhhhhh” lol


    • Scray
      on December 9, 2013 at 8:25 pm
      Original Link

      ‘ Like, make her feel special again like oh ya I used game to say hi but then you turned out to be different from other girls.

      Your buddy’s calibration is shit and his txts sound like generic cut n pastes instead of like he’s building any kind of rapport/comfort with the chick, or qualifying her at all. It SOUNDS like he’s just playing a generic numbers game.’

      Totally. I think this is what I’m trying to articulate — which is silly, because we’ve been over it. But I guess it’s only recently (around the time the success started) been internalized. That’s probably the function of switching it up, it sub-communicates the ‘i’m different/you’re different’ message.



Reader Mailbag: The Fire Was Never There

Original Link

via Heartiste

immoralgables
on December 9, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Original Link

I am the one who submitted the last section of this post but it legit was for a friend. Plenty of times I’ve submitted my shitty exchanges for the world to bear so no reason to hide behind “the friend” excuse.

As a follow up, nothing materialized further and my buddy was confused as during the PU, the girl was the sweetest, nicest thing ever.

Thanks Heartiste for the write up and analysis, all of it is spot on and none of us had anything close to those kind of responses you mentioned during our initial brainstorming. Us meaning me, my friend and some other buddies I consulted with regarding this situ.

Agree and amplify was the best we came up with but even then, it did feel a bit off. Thanks for clarifying why. This helped me out a lot as well as I’m prone to overgame.

If my friend somehow magically got this girl to come out and meet, I will keep the readership posted but odds are that the lead died a brutal death.

Thanks again.

-IG


  • YaReally
    on December 9, 2013 at 7:51 pm
    Original Link

    Agree & Amplify was the way to go. Or at least acknowledging she’s called you out accurately VS playing dumb. If she was nice during the initial sarge then probably she told a friend who’s been burned by a PUA about him or googled him or something and pieced together that he’s running game and views game in a negative light (possibly he used a routine that she then found online which destroyed the specialness of how she viewed the “chance” meeting, but even just knowing that he’s running game in general can cause that feeling of having been duped).

    At that point pretending not to know what she’s talking about is like pretending not to have eaten the cookies when the jar is empty beside you and you have cookie crumbs around your lips. It’s insulting to her that you would think she’s too dumb to have caught you, and makes you look ashamed and sneaky because you’re still trying to hide.

    So acknowledge she’s correct, but just make it fun and playful and treat it like it’s no big deal. Strongest frame wins and she might have too much of a hate-on for game for personal reasons to turn things around, but it’s the highest % play.

    Something like “lol no, negs are for super bitchy girls and you were all smiles when we met.” or “no fuzzy hats, don’t worry lol” or “I was going to go with getting drunk and barfing on your shoe, but what you suggested sounds way better.” etc

    The idea is that you’re acknowledging that yes, of course you’re running game, that’s why you had the balls to approach her in the first place, but that 1) you don’t take it or yourself seriously, and 2) it’s not a big deal like she probably thinks it is. Her txt sounds like she views it as manipulative and her finding out ruined her feeling of being “special” because clearly he just runs the same shit on every girl playing the numbers game and doesn’t really like her for HER.

    Something like “lol no fuzzy hats. But I will definitely push you to meet up for dinner, I don’t run into many girls who (something personal about her)”. Like, make her feel special again like oh ya I used game to say hi but then you turned out to be different from other girls.

    Your buddy’s calibration is shit and his txts sound like generic cut n pastes instead of like he’s building any kind of rapport/comfort with the chick, or qualifying her at all. It SOUNDS like he’s just playing a generic numbers game.

    Pickup instructors get called out all the time but girls will still fuck them, because they don’t get fazed and just play it off like it’s not a big deal and make the girl still feel like she’s different from those other girls etc. Hell if your game is right and your frame is solid and you handle the rest of the shit (making her feel special) proper, often she’ll find it hot.

    Tell your buddy to use this as a wake-up call to personalize his interactions more. Less generic numbers game routines and more “getting to know her” stuff…find out her hopes and dreams, let her know you want to meet up because she’s said or done something that you appreciate/like, instead of “wink at mehhhhhh” lol


    • Scray
      on December 9, 2013 at 8:25 pm
      Original Link

      ‘ Like, make her feel special again like oh ya I used game to say hi but then you turned out to be different from other girls.

      Your buddy’s calibration is shit and his txts sound like generic cut n pastes instead of like he’s building any kind of rapport/comfort with the chick, or qualifying her at all. It SOUNDS like he’s just playing a generic numbers game.’

      Totally. I think this is what I’m trying to articulate — which is silly, because we’ve been over it. But I guess it’s only recently (around the time the success started) been internalized. That’s probably the function of switching it up, it sub-communicates the ‘i’m different/you’re different’ message.