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Confronting Vs Ignoring A Manipulative Girlfriend

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via Heartiste

on December 17, 2012 at 7:02 am
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Checking in…huge step backwards. I’m noticing more and more that state control is probably my biggest problem. It’s weird, I’m starting to view social interactions the same way I view poker hands…just trying to find, then fix leaks and maximize EV, lol.

Anyway, had a party for a friend of my social group’s over the weekend, and — now that I’m aware of the manosphere — I kinda realize that this friend of ours, in the way she acts toward me, doesn’t respect me as a man. I never really noticed before, but now that I’m paying attention, it’s very strange. I mean, this was just a friendly interaction, so I’m not trying to ‘game’ hardcore or anything, but I am trying to at least present more of a confident persona.

So we’re at this bar, sitting at two tables, and I’m having a long, fun chat with these three girls who are also in the social circle, but more distant from the core group. But almost every damned time I make a successful joke or get the attention of everyone in a positive way, frenemy is sure to talk shit. Like, without fail. And then, I notice that the stuff she’s saying sort of mirrors the one-off critiques I got the other night — it always boils down to something like ‘you’re gay’ ‘your outfit sucks,’ and then something along the lines of being a snob — which flat-out isn’t true, everyone I know says I’m one of the most down-to-earth people they’ve met. She teases all the guys in the group, but from her to me it’s way different. I attempt to use the whole ‘two second alpha stare’ on her remarks….which PISSES her off even more! Eventually, she actively starts trying to get the other girls around her in on the shit talking.

At this point, I kinda break and start reacting way more. Not in an angry way, but you know…like…in that way where I’m somehow justifying myself. I count the experience as a good thing though, because slowly I’m starting to see that these skills apply to most every area of life. So much of how you’re treated seems to boil down to how people perceive your SMV to be.

Office Holiday Party at the Club

Setting is simple — we get a booth at a pretty nice club. When we get there my plan is to just hang out with the work group for like half an hour to hour before peeling off to hit on EVERY hot girl in the club. I know it’s going to be an uphill battle because the club is a country-ish club (line dancing on the floor, but lots of normal club music mixed in with the country music), and I ain’t a cowboy. So….at the dinner beforehand I had two budlights. At the club, while hanging out with the office, I had a like one and a half vodka orangejuices. I dunno what happened, but I felt like I got hit by a tranq dart. Not drunk, not buzzed, just tranquilized.

But, I managed to stick to the plan — somewhat — and make two approaches. The first approach was at the bar and consisted of ‘hey!’ (energy level way too high), and hb 8 nodding with an ‘wwwtttfff’ smile ‘uhhh hey!’ My mind was foggy so I said something stupid about seeing some lady trip in the middle of the line dancing. And she was like ‘what?! No way…’ And then I nodded (way too fast, so eager to get approval!) ‘Yeah, I helped her up…’ Now she turns toward me ‘wow that was really nice of you.’ Before I can think of anything to say….this big guy comes to the bar and puts his arm around her. Inward wince, I give it up almost immediately.

I see a legit hb 9 with two lady friends — probably a 5 and 4 respectively — just standing near the dancefloor, watching, and I walk up to them and say ‘hey, how are you guys doing?’ I was feeling kinda shitty over the last set and pretty much made the approach a cheesy pickup line. One of the friends looked — the 4 — and said, ‘we’re fine.’ But she said it dismissively. And at that point, I just gave it up for the night.

So…..I think really, I just need to nail down this ‘irrational self-confidence at all times’ thing.

  • YaReally
    on December 17, 2012 at 8:00 am
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    I dropped a massive response to your other Field Report as a Reply to:

    Should show up today sometime when WordPress decides it loves me again and finally shows it lol

    I got work to do right now but I’ll give this one a breakdown too. An off night sucks, but don’t worry, nothing you’ve written in this Field Report or the last is unfixable, even though it usually feels pretty demoralizing/hopeless when you’re playing the night back in your head without a clear idea of what’s happening or how to fix it.

    This is why on PUA boards we write Field Reports, they’re not about bragging (well, some guys’ are lol), they’re so other PUAs can chime in with fresh unemotional 3rd-person perspectives and go “here’s where you went wrong, man! (explain explain explain) Get it? Next time try Such and Such!” and help get the guy heading down a path to fixing his sticking points.

    A large combination of men passionately working together toward a single goal is pretty fucking powerful. I think that’s part of what freaks the blue pill crowd out about pickup, like “o shit the menz are pulling down the curtain and we can’t stop it!! quick, demonize them in the MSM so no one pays attention!!” Like Leiningen watching the ants sacrifice their bodies as bridges in the water ditch so the other ants can crawl over them…”o shit, they’re organized now” lol

    • Scray
      on December 17, 2012 at 7:23 pm
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      Lol. Yeah, I mean…I can tell that I have a long way to go. But, another thing I’ve gained is mad respect for a few of my friends. I think I’m lucky to be in a social circle of well-connected, cool guys that make a point of randomly approaching women.

      But these posts you leave, like I said, are awesome! Blending this with poker again, I had a moment where I was frustrated with having analyzed a hand wrong. Just, really annoyed. And, as I was talking about it….I just ignored the impulse to quiet my emotions and how I felt. Instead, I was just like ‘well, I guess I’m fucking wrong here man…I just really hate being wrong when I analyze shit, it pisses me right the fuck off.” While it’s just an outburst I allowed myself to have, and yeah, it’s revealing vulnerability to a friend…I feel like that’s a good thing. And I feel like this ‘game’ stuff is pushing me in that direction.

  • YaReally
    on December 17, 2012 at 4:06 pm
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    My posts still haven’t shown up yet (sigh), so check the last couple articles in a day or two for a shitload of knowledge bombs being dropped in your face lol. Anyway, now on to this one, which will probably make more sense after you read the one that hasn’t shown up yet…if this one shows up, fuck it, who knows what you’ll get to read and when! lol

    “I’m noticing more and more that state control is probably my biggest problem.”

    That’ll stick around for a while. I recommend working on one or two things at a time, and state control is a pretty big one to tackle and the easiest time TO tackle it is when you have a solid foundation going. ie – if being internally validated involves having a “delusional sense of coolness” and fully believing you’re awesome, it’s a lot easier to do that when you’ve picked a few girls up or really nailed your body language down or achieved your workout goals etc. and have something you can logically base that on. This all depends on the type of learning method you resonate with and how hardcase a newbie you are and what your goals are, etc.

    Viewing it like you view maximizing poker hands means you’re probably a pretty rational/analytical guy and you’ll probably do well with the analytical/strategic approach to this (VS the drill sergeant style “Man up and get in there you pussy!!” stuff that’s popular in the community these days). It honestly might not be the fastest route for getting quick results, but a slower learning strategy that you feel comfortable and in control with is a lot better than a faster learning strategy that feels like you’re just riding a roller-coaster hoping something useful sticks in your brain.

    “I kinda realize that this friend of ours, in the way she acts toward me, doesn’t respect me as a man.”

    Welcome to seeing The Matrix around you. :) You’re going to notice a lot of stuff like this where you’re like “wow, how did I not notice this before? It’s so obvious now!!” I see a lot of stuff in people’s personalities/actions that my normal non-gamer friends are completely oblivious to, and it’s like a flashing neon sign to me. It can give you a minor feeling of omnipotence at times, which feels pretty good…like when you know you have the nuts in poker and that the other guy has no idea he can’t possibly have the hand he’s trying to bluff lol

    “But almost every damned time I make a successful joke or get the attention of everyone in a positive way, frenemy is sure to talk shit. Like, without fail.”

    Okay so here’s an unfortunate reality that trying to learn game will shove in your face: The people around you (even your BEST friends and family) don’t necessarily want you to become better (or more accurately they don’t want you to “change”). There are a few reasons for it and they’re not necessarily malicious, they’re just like, human nature basically:

    1) “Crabs in a bucket” syndrome, where if you have a bunch of crabs in a bucket and one starts crawling out, the others will pull him back down so they’re all stuck there together. This is like when one guy in a group of burnout pot-head buddies cuts out the pot so he can go to law school, and his buddies are all “you’ve changed man, why are you selling out like this, you used to be cool”.

    Part of the reason people do this is that you’re fucking with their life (ie – someone they relied/counted on to play a certain role in their life is leaving that role and they feel a lack of control because of it which is scary), part of it is jealousy (ie – how come HE gets to succeed, he’s supposed to be our group loser, or he’s supposed to be like me and I’m not going to succeed so it’s not fair that he gets to succeed and I don’t and since I’m not going to put in the effort to come up to his level, I need to bring him back down to my level), part of it is that you working on yourself and getting success forces them to look at their own lack of success (ie – two fat friends, one works out constantly and gets in shape and the other one actively resents them for it because seeing them working out is a reminder that they don’t have the motivation/discipline to work out and change themselves too, so the in-shape guy’s success rubs the fat guy’s failure in their face), and part of it is that people don’t like having to re-label something (ie – you’re the shy quiet nerdy one, that they can count on to be shy quiet and nerdy…then you start being out-going loud and dressing cool. Well we can’t have THAT, or I’ll have to re-evaluate who you are as a person and re-label you, and I’ve already handled labelling you 10 years ago when we met and I’m used to that label, I don’t want to have to look at you different, I have other shit to do and that takes mental effort…”this isn’t YOU man, what are you doing? that’s not YOU dude, why are you being weird? Why are you wearing that? That’s not YOU.”).

    You may have noticed a running theme here…those reasons are all selfish as FUCK, and don’t involve having your best interests (the betterment of your life in general) at heart. Along the way you’ll actually learn who your legit REAL friends are, because those are the friends who are going to be going “awesome work buddy, glad you’re coming out of your shell now!” and “that new outfit looks great, you’ll lookin’ stylin’ these days!” and “hey man I’m passing by the gym, do you need a ride?” etc.

    The sad part is that often you’ll find that your legit friends are a lot fewer than you thought…often it’ll only be like 1-5 people in your social circle that really support you as you work on yourself. You’ll run into a lot of situations where you’re like “wow, I really thought this person was my friend but they’re trying to keep me down… :(” And, even more sad, you may have to cut some of these people out of your life, either for a while (till you’ve solidified your new Identity enough that they finally accept it), or forever if they’re really detrimental to your mental state…or at least keep them at arm’s length and avoid hanging out with them unless you have to.

    The good news is that down the road you won’t regret cutting any of them out of your life because you’ll be fully aware of how poisonous they really were and you’ll feel more bad for them than for you, because you’ll think “man, I really wish this person had been more supportive instead of being such a negative person, I really valued their friendship and they’re really missing out by not getting to be a part of my life.”

    The other good news is that ultimately “the strongest frame wins”. If you take on a new Identity, and you solidify that identity over time with all your reference experiences, and you really become that new Identity and all your behaviors, thoughts, actions, etc. align with it congruently, for a long enough period of time, a lot of those people who had trouble with you changing will come to accept the “new” you and end up back in your life but this time accepting you for who you’ve become instead of trying to get you to stay in the label they had you in. It’s like your reality wins over theirs so they just cave and accept it, which is something common in pickup in general.

    “And then, I notice that the stuff she’s saying sort of mirrors the one-off critiques I got the other night”

    The rejection of your changing can manifest itself in pretty cruel ways depending on the type of person you’re dealing with. Some people will just be like “dude, that’s not you man, are you okay? Why are you acting like this now? You’ve changed man…” and some will be hostile dickheads like this chick.

    “it always boils down to something like ‘you’re gay’ ‘your outfit sucks,’”

    As you’ve noticed, this is the same type of shit you were getting from the girls in your last Field Report. Girls aren’t super clever, especially when they think the guy’s frame is incongruent/weak. Like you wouldn’t bother taking a huge wind-up swing to punch through a thin piece of balsa wood because you’d figure you can just break it with a couple fingers squeezing it.

    When I get shit-tested these days, I get shit-tested HARD…girls try to bring out their A-Game with testing me because they know stuff like “your outfit is gay” won’t phase me at all. They know if they’re going to test me, they need to do it with something brutal to have a shot at shaking my frame. Their shit still usually isn’t funny though lol

    And again, they’re just doing this because you’re acting different than how they think you “should” act, and they sense they can get away with it, like a cheetah tackling the injured gazelle of the group, it’s almost instinct to pounce on a weakness.

    Tyler puts it good in a video where he says that “the field” will take your sticking points, incongruencies, and any weak parts of your game and just shove them right in your face, harshly and brutally, until you fix those things. So in a way it’s a good thing, because when you approach 10 girls and they all go “eww don’t touch me you creep”, you learn “okay there’s a problem with how I’m doing my kino, time to zoom-in on my kino and figure out where I’m going wrong here”.

    The thing about their one-off insults is that they’re not real consistent or specific, so you can ignore them. If you got 20 insults and 15 of them were that your shirt is ugly, then your shirt is probably ugly lol But if you get 20 insults and they’re all over the map and vague like “you’re gay” “your haircut’s stupid” “you’re weird”, it’s just the girls shooting a shot-gun blast spread of insults hoping SOMETHING gets through a crack and hits you and makes you react. So you can just laugh that shit off because when you see them doing it, in your head it should translate to them saying to you “I have NO ammo at all, I’m just desperately flinging shit at you and crossing my fingers here”.

    “and then something along the lines of being a snob — which flat-out isn’t true”

    Ya, see? It’s like she can’t get a reaction out of you so now she’s even just making shit UP hoping you’ll fall into her frame, and defend yourself (against shit you know isn’t even TRUE) and qualify yourself to her, which is beta’ing yourself to her, and then she can feel like she “won” the little frame battle exchange she instigated because she’s insecure and needed to re-enforce to herself that she’s better than you. It’s really silly and petty lol

    So she might try like “you’re stupid” and you go “lol whatever” and she goes “grrr…you’re ugly!!” and you go “lol whatever” and she goes “grrr…you have a tiny dick!” and it’s not even something she could KNOW, and you happen to be sensitive/insecure about your wang so you go “what?? no I don’t!” and she goes “aha!! GOTCHA!!” and turns to the girls beside her and goes “right girls? this guy totally has a tiny dick! What a loser, I bet it’s the size of my pinky lol!!” and now she’s poking a sore-spot issue with you AND rallying up the people around her to pile on, and she’ll do it until you finally cave to the social pressure and she breaks your frame.

    Pretty fucked up hey? lol But again, she’s not always necessarily an evil horrible bitch even though it’s bullying behavior…she’s just testing you and trying to keep her world in the order it’s supposed to be in. And in fact, a lot of times these girls will be the sweetest girls in the world to you once they’re 100% sure that you’re congruent to who you’re portraying yourself as. It’s hard not to want to muff-punch her though, I know, lol

    Anyway, so that’s the general psychology behind this. The girls from your last Field Report did it too, where they test you for a sore spot and then try to gang up on you to put social pressure on you to cave. AMOGs will sometimes do this kind of thing too. It can be frustrating, especially when they actually DO strike a nerve, and you’ll react a bunch of times where as soon as you react you’ll go “ah shit I shouldn’t have done that”.

    But that’s okay, because it’s a learning process. Over time you’ll learn that a lot of the things they say really AREN’T things that SHOULD affect you. Like a girl making fun of your haircut, who the fuck cares, why would that affect your state or self-worth in any way, who the fuck is SHE? lol At the same time, you’ll also learn what things really DO affect you and where your boundaries are. I’ll let a girl SLAP me, I don’t give a fuck at all…I say a lot of offensive stuff and sometimes girls will react by slapping me because it was over the top and I’ll just grin and keep going like it was nothing. That’s not a boundary that really bothers me. But then on the flip side, a girl who’s being a dick to one of my Nice Guy friends will get a full verbal-bitch-slap reaming-out from me until she feels like a piece of shit and like I’m the meanest person in the world. I learned where my boundaries are, from being tested a bunch over the years.

    I like this Joe Rogan clip as an example of boundaries. He really isn’t affected by this girl, because he knows she’s irrellevant in the long-run, she doesn’t affect his self-worth at all, but at the same time he’s basically unapologetically saying “you are crossing my boundaries and if you keep it up I’m going to keep laying into you”:

    The crowd goes wild over the stuff he’s saying, and a lot of that is because they know they’re watching a man express himself from the core and not holding back. He’s not being PC, he’s not trying to appease anyone, he’s not holding back his opinion, he’s not embarrassed by his boundaries, he’s being completely honest and congruent and expressing himself. There’s NOTHING that chick can say that will phase him or get through any cracks, his Identity is rock solid even if it’s abrasive to the Politically Correct crowd.

    At 2:20-ish he threatens her with his dick and says “I’m a short guy but I’ve got a big dick” lol So now picture way back to your earlier post where you said the dance floor uggo sneered at you for trying to dance with her, or think back to the girl who made fun of your height…how would Joe Rogan have handled that? Well he might not have handled it in the best way and he might not handle it in a way that you’ll end up handling it when you get your Identity down (being a cool chill Owen Wilson type guy is as much of an Identity as being a loud asshole), but he sure as shit would have a way to handle it that’s congruent, you know? :)

    That’s part of why I asked you earlier if you had any boundaries, or knew what they were, or when you last made other people aware of your boundaries when they crossed them or if you just bottled it up inside, etc. At this stage you probably don’t know what your boundaries are yet. Like ya, the calling you gay or a snob is annoying, but it doesn’t REALLY piss you off…so you’ll probably be able to handle that stuff and laugh it off and down the road it’ll be completely insignificant to you. Whereas if a girl called you fat, since you’re working on your weight, that might actually sting you right now. These are things you’ll learn about yourself as you go.

    “She teases all the guys in the group, but from her to me it’s way different.”

    I actually think you could fuck her lol

    “I attempt to use the whole ‘two second alpha stare’ on her remarks….which PISSES her off even more!”

    lol you did good, regardless of her reaction. Her getting pissed off is because she’s frustrated that nothing is getting to you. Probably in the past before you found the Manosphere you’d qualify/react more often to this shit she’s throwing at you, but now you’re not anymore, so it’s that frustration of “keep being who you’re SUPPOSED to be, grrr, why isn’t this working anymore??” And because you’re not reacting and you’re staying cool, she just starts looking more and more irrational and petty and she can sense that, so she has to keep trying to up the ante to get you to react…thus:

    “Eventually, she actively starts trying to get the other girls around her in on the shit talking.”

    Maybe SHE can’t pressure you into reacting, but maybe the combined social pressure of her and the 3 girls you’re talking to can get you to cave. I actually use this tactic on AMOGs lol, if I’m worried the guy’s going to hit me I’ll use the girls in the group and/or the other guys and/or passers-by and try to turn the group against him to get him to feel the social pressure and force him to calm down out of fear of everyone judging him as irrational and angry.

    “At this point, I kinda break and start reacting way more.”

    lol it’s all good. This chick is pro, she knows exactly what she’s doing and she’s probably been doing it a lot longer to everyone in her life than some silly 18yo at the bar who’s still learning the ropes of how to use the power she has over men. You stepped into the ring with Tyson and didn’t come out completely mangled, that’s pretty decent all things considered. :) It’ll get easier over time, and you’ll get more competent at it and eventually you’ll be 10 steps ahead of her and know what she’s thinking better than she does.

    “Not in an angry way, but you know…like…in that way where I’m somehow justifying myself.”

    Right, this is what we call “qualifying yourself”. It feels stupid, right? Like you’re DOING it, but you know you SHOULDN’T be doing it, but you can’t help it because you just need to do it like scratching an itch. Down the road you’ll start using this on girls and getting them to qualify themselves to you and they’ll react the same way you did, where they just NEED to qualify and feel like they have to justify themselves. It’s pretty powerful stuff when you use it consciously. The old-school PUA examples are (once you pass the hook point and you know you have some kind of value to the girl) the classic “Can you cook? I can’t date a girl who can’t cook.” or “Are you adventurous?” etc. where when she qualifies herself to you, you reward her, which sets up a frame where she wants more rewards so she keeps qualifying herself, creating a loop where she keeps investing more in the interaction and chasing your validation.

    “I’m starting to see that these skills apply to most every area of life. So much of how you’re treated seems to boil down to how people perceive your SMV to be.”

    Yup. Welcome to the Matrix. :) If two people were applying for a job and one guy was a shy nervous guy who spent all his time studying and he had amazing qualifications but was socially awkward, and the other guy applying had half or even no qualifications, but was extremely charistmatic and had an obviously high SMV and could build a connection with people quickly and get the interviewer talking about how much they both love golf etc., my money would be on the 2nd guy getting the job. It’s kind of a mind-fuck to realize how much societal conditioning brainwashed us all to believe that working hard will result in the universe rewarding us fairly…when the reality is a lot of people who have good jobs, financial success, great opportunities, etc. really just got those things by knowing the right people and being “liked”.

    “When we get there my plan is to just hang out with the work group for like half an hour to hour before peeling off to hit on EVERY hot girl in the club.”

    lol excellent plan. A booth is fun if you’re just fucking around with your boys and don’t care about getting laid, but the reality is that most bar/club booths are really awkward logistically for talking to girls. Your friends won’t care because they can’t approach girls anyway so they’re happy drinking in the booth, but you have to be like “I have to go to the bathroom” and then go do some approaches. Most of my friends know that I’ll occasionally vanish here and there through the night instead of holding their hands and cuddling around the bar all night.

    The expensive VIP booths are often even worse…they’re a good place to bring girls back to, and you’re socially proofed if everyone can see you in your important rich-people booth…but unless you’re in a Vegas style club where promoters bring golddiggers over to your table, you’re segregated from the general population in the club behind a velvet rope or up on a stage etc. and you don’t get to interact with them unless you leave the very expensive VIP booth you paid for lol

    “But, I managed to stick to the plan — somewhat — and make two approaches.”

    Good on ya. It’s all reference experiences that add up over time.

    “Now she turns toward me ‘wow that was really nice of you.’”

    Shit, not bad for winging it. You basically DHV’ed a bit and you probably could’ve taken this somewhere…till the big guy showed up lol Nothing you can do about that right now. Hell, I don’t even bother with those sets these days, where the guy is clearly over-protective…it’s just not worth the hassle, even if I can tool him he might just end up punching me out because for all I know she’s his girlfriend of 10 years lol

    “I was feeling kinda shitty over the last set and pretty much made the approach a cheesy pickup line.”

    lol one of the ways Tyler recommends getting into state is to purposely do shit like approach as a cheesy pickup line guy, or to purposely approach like a total AFC asking interview questions, or purposely approach trying to get shot down or get her to slap you, or approaching using a made up foreign language, etc. Basically doing stuff that you KNOW probably won’t work and is retarded, but is funny to you and makes you laugh at how dumb what you’re trying is. It helps get you outside of your head and away from outcome dependance and dying for approval because you’re shooting yourself in the foot on purpose from the start. Once you get back into state, your sets usually go a lot better because your sub-communications are fun instead of needy.

    “I think really, I just need to nail down this ‘irrational self-confidence at all times’ thing.”

    Like I say, it helps to have the reference experiences for it so it’ll come with time.

    But in the meantime, try some Affirmations:

    Saying Affirmations to yourself feels pretty cheesy if you’ve never done it, and while I don’t really do them now (because my brain is basically telling me how awesome I am 24/7 lol), I found they helped a lot when I was starting out. I combined a few of them into one long one and I’d recite it while showering, while doing my hair etc., into a mirror before leaving my apartment for the bar, etc.

    Some people respond well to them, some people don’t, try doing some Affirmations daily for a couple weeks and see what it does for your mood. I thought they were completely retarded at first, but I’m always up for at least giving new stuff a fair try, and it turned out they helped get me jump-started on building that irrational self-confidence thing.

    Good luck!

    • Scray
      on December 17, 2012 at 7:02 pm
      Original Link

      Man, every time I read one of your posts, I just want to go back out and do it all over again. Fills me with hope. Really appreciate the effort. I’ll try to work on this stuff, man.

Double-Dipping Alimony Whores

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via Heartiste

on December 14, 2012 at 2:28 pm
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Had a pretty good night last night! Opened two girls before I just opened and engaged this group for a pretty long time. Got a few numbers, but I feel like they’re more ‘friends’ numbers. And I feel like I could have gotten more, but I was too much of a pussy. I also started to get nervous after several minutes of solid interaction, which is funny. In retrospect it’s funny at least. So, personal standpoint, I took the advice I got on here and paid close attention to everything about myself. I tried doggedly to, whenever standing in a group, to maintain the open contrapposto alpha pose. I was surprised at how often I just kept wanting to fall out of it. Whenever I was sitting, I also tried my hardest to lean back, but it’s so hard to hear that I found myself leaning in more than I’d like just to hear what was going on. I also noticed that I lose state pretty quickly. I don’t know what it is about my approach, but I really tried damned hard to just follow the identity building advice. What resulted was a ton of shit-talking from the women. The guys I actually seemed to get along great with, though.

Line check (approaches HB 8 at bar, leans on counter putting profile to woman):
Me: Hey…you see that weird fight outside?
Her: ….what? There was a fight outside?
Me: It was this little midget lady and her tall boyfriend….you didn’t see it?
Her: ….no (seeming disinterested)
Me: Oh….well, I knew the boyfriend would win out, but she put up a fight.
Her: Wow…you must be psychic (flat)
Me: (not going well, may as well just say the dumbest shit I can think of and get the fuck outta here; straightens posture) Actually….I’m from the future.
Her: (laughter)….ohhhh really?
Me: (inner surprise; I can’t think of anything cool to say so I shrug my shoulders like it ain’t no thang)
Her: Well I thought that they’d be taller in the future?
Me: I’m not short, I’m just really far away from you.
Her: Uh-huh, hoooookay….

(fast forward, I said I was waiting for my friends, we eventually moved over to another table where the rest of her group joined us — two guys and another girl. The other girl is a 5-6, made up out of her mind. I ignore them for a minute or two to talk to the guys. When I switch back to the girls, I just notice this intense spike of ‘talk shit.’ e.g.,)

Her: (blah blah blah)….I really like that shit.
Me: (Trying for misheard innuendo) …you really like dick?
Her Friend: (Gut check mode) Uhhhhhhhhhh noooo….and if there were a dick around, I’m sure you’d be all on that shit anyway.
Me: (Can’t think of anything cool to say, so I just give her a raised eyebrow and a smirk)
Her: ……you know, I could see that.
Me: (Takes a risk) you liking dick?
Her: No, you being gay.
Me: Does gay me wear sunglasses?
Her: (laughs)
Her friend: No, he just has sex with a lot of men. (they both laugh…feel like I’m crashing and burning)
Male friend: That’s not really such a bad thing. Gay men dress really well.
Her: (takes a look at my clothes, makes an ‘they’re okay/standard’ gesture with her hand, then laughs and shakes her head) Yeah, then I guess he’s not gay.
Me: (figure I’ve totally just blown this exchange, so I just shrug and try to power through) ….am I getting some fucking sunglasses or what?
(Gets solid laughter)

Me (just generally addressing the group): So, is it scrunchie or ‘scoonchie,’ for the company?
Her friend: What, what do you mean?
Me: I just know I’ve seen labels with the hair tie with this weird ‘u’ with two dots over it.
Her: Where would you have even seen that?
(Her and her friend proceed to lose their shit over this — I don’t really get it, but I figure I’ve made a huge tactical error here)
Her friend: You’re so dumb! (to be fair, said in a playful way) It’s scrunchie!
Me: Ooooooh….so that weird ‘u’ means nothing then?
Her: Nope…you’re wrong on this one.

I gotta say…I mean, the way they say it and the way it feels, the teasing just doesn’t come off as overtly flirty to me. It just seems like they’re ripping on me. Probably have to recheck my body language and tone. Some other highlights of the night — pretty sure I got AMOG’ed a few times and had no comebacks. Here’s an example that at least felt like an amog:

Guy: (after a group laugh over something I said) Man….can we just like, we should just like make a cartoon out of you.
Me: I dunno man, I’m pretty sure my lats are too huge to be drawn (stupid line, they can’t all be winners I guess….)
Guy: No I’m serious, you could have your own little animated series or something.

So…this sort of lets me know I’m being more of an entertainer, and I have no idea how to work out of that zone. I mean, all in all a far better night than most I’ve had at least.

  • YaReally
    on December 14, 2012 at 10:34 pm
    Original Link

    They’re all picking up on incongruency and reacting to it. This’ll happen for a while lol it’s a good thing, it means you’re trying new shit out and it just doesn’t fit proper. A night of getting shit thrown at you and learning is better than a mundane night going through the same ol’ motions playing to “not lose” instead of playing to “win”.

    On my way out to the bar but I’ll write some more in-depth shit here tomorrow for ya.

    • Scray
      on December 16, 2012 at 12:25 am
      Original Link

      Ha. Look forward to the read.

Fat Women And Fat Men Aren’t Equally Repulsive

Original Link

via Heartiste

on December 10, 2012 at 2:51 pm
Original Link

True–overweight guys just aren’t fighting the same uphill battle in the marketplace that overweight women are. The caveat is that he has to be fat in a masculine way. Big belly, fine. The teddy-bear look actually works very well for a lot of men.

On the other hand…big FUPA or pear-shaped in that weirdly feminine way? Kind of hard to look at.

  • Scray
    on December 10, 2012 at 3:08 pm
    Original Link

    I think being fat in a ‘manly’ way only works when the guy is tall. Like, Vince Vaughn allowed himself to get pretty fat, but I doubt it really affected his attractiveness to women that much.

    Me, on the other hand — I’m short, so…my high (but dropping steadily) BMI works against me hardcore I bet. I carry my fat almost exclusively in my stomach and in my face. So…it’s the dreaded skinny fat.

    Basically, I’d say short men = fat women in SMV.

    • YaReally
      on December 10, 2012 at 4:28 pm
      Original Link

      Go out more. Meet more people.

      I have a handful of super short friends (5’0″-5’3″). 2 of them get hotter women than most of the guys commenting here and one of those two is skinny/frail, Asian, with blatantly fucked up teeth. His bread ‘n butter is banging waitresses & beer tub girls.

      Some of the other guys are better looking (the good facial features and in-shape body type, wearing suits all the time etc) but have less confidence than those two (the frail one peacocks heavily, the other wears skater clothes and has shaggy unkempt hair and basically looks like a bum lol).

      Their confidence is thru the roof and the frail one studies/applies game.

      They run their game a little differently from tall good-looking guys, a lot more behind the scenes shit and a heavier focus on using social circles to demonstrate value and create opportunities to isolate, but they’re guys you’d look at and go “no WAY that dude can get laid” until the hottie you were hitting on starts ignoring you to talk to them because they have better game and more charisma than you.

      In conclusion like I said before: go out more, meet more people.

on December 10, 2012 at 2:56 pm
Original Link

Biracial manlet checking in — still failing at this whole thing by the way. At least now I’m getting numb to it. Although, I had a particularly bad episode at the club a few nights ago. I started dancing with a girl, and she was somewhere between a 4 and a 6. She made a face, then expected me to notice she made a face. I was focused on other things besides her face at the time, so she informed me that when she made that face, it meant that she was ‘creeped out’ and didn’t desire my company.

Now, I know that we’re all supposed to remain nonreactive, but this broke the dam that holds back my primal anger. Sorry — we’re scaling new heights of betatude now. I just shrugged, stepped further into her space, snapped my fingers, and danced more. This woman lost her mind and literally -pushed- me away from her.

I blinked and held up my hands. Guess what happened? No less than 6 white knights arrived and told me how uncool I was being. Granted, I guess that was kind of a dick move — or hey, maybe certain people need to lighten the fuck up. So uh…yeah…..literally shoved away on the dancefloor. I’m starting to think that club dancefloors are -horrible- for me :D

  • YaReally
    on December 10, 2012 at 4:57 pm
    Original Link

    You don’t have an identity yet, which is fine because you’re still learning and observing other guys and adapting bits and pieces here and there to figure out your identity.

    The biggest thing about my short buddies who get laid is they have VERY clear-cut identities. They know exactly who they are and what behavior they do and don’t tolerate from people around them, and have developed extremely strong mental frames for how they view the world around them.

    Basically you’re still wishy-washy as a man. That’ll fix itself over time. It could take years, but it comes down to how much you want to get it handled. You are entirely capable of surpassing your buddies, you just don’t really believe that yet. Again this is stuff that you’ll fix over time, gaining little reference experiences that slowly add up. This isn’t something you’ll fix in a year.

    One of my close wings these days is a 6’4″ super good looking MMA Natural WITH solid game. It took me months to get out of his shadow and quit letting the logic of “there’s no way I can compete with him, he’s better looking than me” fuck with me and just trust Game and not subconsciously hold back. If I don’t do anything, he gets all the girls. But if I step up and fully execute and express myself thru my Game, I take the girls from him.

    You can also change your strategy up. If I’m out with a bunch of tall good-looking alpha jock types, I won’t open around them, I’ll venture off on my own or just with one of them, and work my shit. By the time those guys come over, the girls have experienced my awesomeness and even if my buddies are better looking they have an uphill battle because I’ve already got the girls feeling various emotions. If the other guy just relies on his looks and has no game, he’s practically invisible to the girls.

    My short buddies tend to work social circle game more than direct physical game. So they’re the leader of a group and inviting girls to parties or night out at other places, where they isolate the girl and escalate behind the scenes vs trying to be the make-out guy in the middle of the bar.

    One of my short buddies dances and girls love it and come over to dance with him because he’s just doing his own thing (dancing for his own amusement vs trying to dance over to a group of girls). But if he doesn’t do anything, the song ends and she leaves. So as the song winds down he grabs her hand and says “let’s go get a drink” and drags her over to get water at the bar. Except he’s actually dragging her specifically out of view of her friends so he can work his verbal game and DHV a bunch and escalate etc with no interference and if its a club enviro he collects her # and txts her thru the night while they’re still at the club to keep her mind on him, and meets her again “for food” closer to 2am or sets up a Day 2 for during the week. If its a lounge/pub enviro, once he’s hooked her after isolating he’ll lock her arm in his and introduce her to his friends and he’ll go back to the girl’s group and hang with them and work the group to get their approval and go home with her later with everyone’s blessing.

    The bad news is: you might not be running the type of game that really resonates with your personality/attributes/environment and that will take a while to figure out since you don’t have a strong identity yet.

    The good news is the Game has plenty of nuances to it that you get to experiment with and the cost of playing the game is just going out for a few hours and having fun…so it’s a long journey but ultimately a fun one. Hang in there lol

    • Scray
      on December 11, 2012 at 4:04 pm
      Original Link

      Thanks a lot man. I’ll definitely try to build an identity for myself — that sort of makes sense. I mean, I have a lot of friends, but I’m not really -known- for anything. I mean, I know this is bad thinking, but I feel like…when I finally get the body I want, and the facial fat leaves my cheeks/neck, I’ll be able to run better game because I’ll just feel so much better about myself.

on December 10, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Original Link

Awesome, the Simple Pickup guys made it onto Jezebel. I haven’t even read the article yet but I’m sure it’s full of implications that they’re evil rapists lol

I wonder how it’ll go over considering the Simple Pickup guys are pretty much the nicest friendliest funniest PUA types around the net these days…it’s easy to make fun of creepy Mystery and Tyler, but even to the mainstream public the SP guys are generally just goofing around. Plus they have an Asian and Indian guys of average height/looks who do well with chicks, so they’re underdogs busting stereotypes left and right really. I imagine the general reaction to this article will be a lot more “jesus lighten up” lol

  • immoralgables
    on December 10, 2012 at 7:10 pm
    Original Link

    Don’t let Scray hear how these average looking guys are doing well with women and busting stereotypes. We might have to hear another woe is more tale about the ONE girl that shut him down when he did a tucked up approach.

    • Scray
      on December 10, 2012 at 11:35 pm
      Original Link

      Yeah man I hear you. I just think it’s a noteworthy failure of mine. I mean, most of my original post is about the -merits- of just approaching. I mean, win or lose, I realize that it makes you more of a man anyway. But yeah…hey, I’m out there. I feel fortunate to be in a group of people that thinks just going out and getting strange ass is important — most guys seem to just stand around and do nothing.