As a comment on the OP — yeah, this is the attitude I see most women between 18-30 having. It’s like this unearned ‘everything I do is awesome and I you will never hold me accountable for anything bad I do.’ So this woman’s post is just the next step — ‘we probably can look like shit and still be great!’ Nonsense.
So, I had two cool experiences, and I will break them down. None count as cold approaches, though, which really sucks. Before I get to them, just general info: I’m still doing this whole identity thing. The weirdest part about it is that -so many- things make me angry/annoy me. I never focused on it before, but it’s true. And, you know, I guess I’m acting out now…trying to acknowledge my emotions instead of just ignoring them altogether. Resulted in a funny scene the other day at a game where I ended up sitting on the outside of the group — and you know how that is, can’t hear shit. It just pissed me right off, to the point where I was just like ‘this is fucking stupid, speak up goddammit, no one can hear you over here.’ So…just think a lot of little moments like that spread over this past week or two. To my surprise, the reaction of my friends has been more surprise and ‘hey, you okay man?’ type of stuff. I get the feeling that expressing my emotions in a ‘cool’ way will take a lot of time, but whatever, it feels WAY better just being like ‘fuck it this is how I feel right now.’
At a kickback (classic sitch of a get together being advertised as a party and ending up with only like eleven people ), this one girl we all know came, and she’s pretty cool, I kind of like her. She brings three friends — one of them is a clear dyke, the other is questionable, and the other is straight (seems pretty straight, anyway) and a HB 7. So, after everyone says hi to her, I say hi, and we chat for a few seconds. Nothing important here, I’m just being social rather than trying to game.
Then….here it comes…she makes a joke:
“What was your name again?”
BOOM. Laughter all around. She knew my name, and it was a joke. But man….it instantly pissed me off. And yeah, I could have attempted to ignore it, but the first step is just dwelling in the emotion…the second step is learning to properly deal with it. So, before, I would have gone along with it. Instead, I just kind of……well…..
“…man, that really hurts. I really like you. You know who I am.”
“Aw, come on, I’m just kidding.”
“NO. I’M IN LOVE WITH YOU GODDAMMIT! WE ARE…UN-SIMPATICO!”
…then I just rise up from my chair, shake my head, and just walk away. She laughs, they carry on. So, I’m thinking, ‘whatever…’ I told the truth in a sort of jokey way. Check this out…later on, they’re standing away from the main group talking, and I go over there under the guise of pouring wine for someone else (that someone was so drunk they wouldn’t know the difference anyway). So anyway, the girl I’m kind of crushing on is like
“Hey, you know I’m just messing with you, right?”
“My heart was broken then…but that’s all behind me now. I’ve moved on with my life.”
“(nods with a laugh) Okay, good to hear it.”
“YEAH. IT’S REAL FUCKING GOOD.”
At this time, cross-talk happens and the HB 7 comments on the entire party behind us. She says something loud like “they’re all talking in alphabetical order!” Her dyke friend immediately moves to make fun of her, by turning to me and repeating what she said. And I blink…and just nod like ‘YEAH THEY ARE.’ And the dyke is like ‘noooo, she just said it in such a dramatic way.’ And I just put my hand in front of her face and looked at the HB 7.
“They were fucking talking in alphabetical order, for sure, and your friend is a huge fucking hater. Deal with it.”
The HB 7′s mouth drops, and the dyke starts to tag-team me with the other ‘questionable’ girl. In that moment, I felt something I’d never felt in a social interaction — domination. They were insulting me, but there was something different in it — they were supplicating. Trying to prove to me and justify to me that what they did was correct, and that the HB 7 did, in fact, use an overly dramatic tone. My response was almost instinctive, I just pretended not to hear them and danced a little in place, swirling around my cup of wine. HB 7 and my original ‘don’t know your name’ friend start laughing. Then, the HB 7 suddenly steps closer and is like ‘can I have your number?’ No bullshit here, and I saw — I felt! — the attraction radiating from her toward me. I blinked, and before I could say even one word, my original friend pushes her more toward me and is like ‘yeah, get each other’s info…get married…go for it.’ I managed to get her number, but got almost no interaction with her after that…her friends like, swooped in on her, surrounding her like a cockblocking wall. They left 10 minutes later to find a better party. (I wish that the party would have been larger!)
So yeah…what do we make of that? I’m unsure. I’m pretty sure I did like most everything wrong and caught a spot of luck, but I gotta say, it just feels good trying to channel how I feel into something verbal.
At another party — thankfully, this one is a real damned party. So, friend’s girlfriend is an HB 6. I swipe this expensive three-button long-sleeved shirt from one of my friends, pop the collar, and just kind of cruise the party. I wander outside where friend and his gf are there with two other people, including the friend who I jacked the shirt from, and I’m like ‘who the FUCK is out here?’ -Everyone- but her seems unmoved by my entrance, but she laughs. My friend is like ‘hey that’s a nice sweater, you look really good in it.’ I’m like ‘ah, this old thing, you know…I have good taste.’ At this point the HB 6 starts telling me to model the shirt, and you know, I’m like ‘yeah, I guess I can just be a dancing monkey here, screw it.’ So I do it — and I notice that she’s touching me a lot, but I’m just like…’whatever, her bf’s right here, obviously she’s just touchy.’ So, after her finally asking me to turn around to see if I have the right butt to model the shirt (she approves), and I think that’s the end of it.
Later, her bf is nowhere around, but she’s there, and she’s like ‘still popping that collar eh?’ And I’m like, ‘fucking right, you pop the collar when you’re bringing the funk.’ She responds ‘…it’s a real short funk, eh?’
And at this point, I just do the same thing I’ve been doing — and the cool thing is that, what’s going to happen, someone yell at me for saying something offensive? Who gives a shit. So I just stop and look straight at her
‘I will FUCK the shit out of you.’
Her eyes widen and she just laughs it off, then I start dancing — she starts dancing with me. FYI — totally not the kind of dancing bf’s are okay with. In fact, her boyfriend walked in when me and her were near the end of the song. And you know, he laughs — she backs off and is like ‘oooooh, it’s just the shirt, can’t resist it. It’s a great shirt.’ I just sort of nod. Now I’m starting to think something is happening…
More of the night passes, and we end up going to a bar. So our friends are all kind of spread out, and somehow, it ends up that everyone else is either playing pool, ordering drinks, or in the restroom — including her boyfriend — and it’s just me and her. So she looks over at me and is like
“So where’s your girlfriend?”
“Don’t have one.”
“Oh yeah, you’re a pretty hot guy….are you gay?”
See, in my mind I’m like ‘why the FUCK are people saying I’m gay?! Goddammit!’ But I have enough sense to try and process the whole message.
“Are you interested?” is the first thing I can think of. Meh.
She laughs, but I just stare at her. Like….just hardcore stare. She looks away.
“If I didn’t have a boyfriend, yeah probably…”
Then, I just sense that the moment is right and the frame has shifted. So I grin at her and I’m like…
“…hey, it’s okay…I’m gay, remember.”
Instant laugh and her. hand. goes on my thigh (!!!!?!?!?!!!) along with
“…you’re a problem.”
Her hand leaves my thigh, I just shrug with a smile, and then her bf comes back. They leave shortly thereafter.
So….you know….these weren’t cold approaches, but I feel like some dots are accidentally being connected sometimes in some ways
Ready? ’cause I’m about to blow your fucking mind here lol You can tell that some kind of dots are somehow accidentally being connected but can’t quite place your finger on how, why, or what the dots are…I’m about to draw you a big ol’ word diagram explaining all those dots and their connections so you can consciously and competantly see the shit you can feel is there.
“None count as cold approaches, though, which really sucks.”
It’s all good. You have plenty of time to get into cold approaching down the road. Celebrate all your victories.
“The weirdest part about it is that -so many- things make me angry/annoy me. I never focused on it before, but it’s true. And, you know, I guess I’m acting out now…trying to acknowledge my emotions instead of just ignoring them altogether.”
So before when you’d approach a girl or she’d test you or anything, you probably didn’t even realize you were angry/annoyed but likely you were sub-communicating this frustration and, since girls learn to subconsciously read those sub-communications from the time they grow tits, they were probably picking up on this weird “No I’m fine (internally: “AHHH FUCK THIS IS STUPID”)” incongruence lol
Thing is, you can be an angry guy, and get attraction…because the congruence is more attractive than the behavior itself. ie – when a nice but suspicious person approaches you on the street at night, you’re on your guard and wary. But the fucking crazy drunk loon rolling around on the ground shouting about aliens, well, you know exactly what that guy’s about and you know there are no surprises in interacting with him…in a way you TRUST him more than you trust the nice but suspicious person who seems to have some kind of ulterior motive.
This is why a lot of assholes get girls…because they’re genuinely assholes and up front about that and not hiding who they are or what they think/believe/feel. On the flip side, some genuinely nice guys get girls, like a lot of high-value cool guys who are just chill and friendly with everyone and compliment women etc…those guys succeed because they’re legitimately expressing themselves.
The disconnect for most AFC guys is that they THINK they’re that second guy I described, and are like “wtf I’m a Nice Guy, why can’t I get a girl??” and they don’t realize that that’s exactly the same vibe you’re just realizing you’ve had where you’re not REALLY being honest about what you think/feel…and that’s not even your fault, society conditions us not to really self-analyze and to just plod along thinking we’re special snowflakes. But it’s a consistent thing. That’s why the Red Pill is hard to swallow for a lot of Nice Guys, because they have to accept “shit, all this time I’ve thought I was like this, but in reality I’m ACTUALLY like THIS, and THIS isn’t really that good a person…wow…I have some work to do ”
“It just pissed me right off, to the point where I was just like ‘this is fucking stupid, speak up goddammit, no one can hear you over here.’”
lol You’re on the right path now. You’ll find that a lot of pickup is based in being so frustrated by something that you finally take action to change it. Like a guy coming up to steal your girl and you’re just like “No fuck this!! Not again!!!” and pick her up over your shoulder and carry her away from the guy mid-conversation and then she fucking loves you lol
A common one that I run into is say there’s 2 girls and my buddy and I start talking to them. His girl is into him and my girl is into me (like she’s giving me EC and trying to hear what I say) but because she’s across from me and my buddy’s girl is across from him, we’re all intersecting awkwardly trying to have two separate conversations through eachother.
So I’ll just go “This is stupid, come here.” and put my hand out and pull her awkwardly through my buddy and his girl’s conversation over to me and now her and I can have a conversation while my buddy can work his girl. The moment is awkward, but the reality is that the frustration is forcing me to express what I really want and take action, so the end result is attraction instead of “wow that was really awkward”.
“the reaction of my friends has been more surprise and ‘hey, you okay man?’ type of stuff.”
lol ya, this is part of why we recommend going out solo, making new friends, and practicing on strangers. Changing your behavior will weird some of your friends out, and there are times where they’ll actively try to force you back into the role they’re used to you playing. “Dude, are you okay man? You seem stressed, you’re never like this…dude, chill out man, you’re creeping those girls out, why are you saying that stuff? Why are you being an asshole to her man? You used to be a nice guy, what’s up man, are you stressed or something? That’s not cool dude, you shouldn’t talk like that…”
If their pressure is too hard to deal with, you may have to stop hanging out with them. That part sucks. A lot, actually. You sometimes find out that you really only had 1 or 2 REAL friends in a group who want you to work on yourself and improve your life, and all the other friends that you thought were really close buddies will actually just try to keep you down and stifle your self-development.
Sometimes they’re right, that you’re doing weird/creepy shit. You’re going to be crossing a lot of boundaries to learn where those boundaries ARE, so you WILL do some legit awkward stuff…but if you can calmly explain “Sorry man, it’s just that this has always kind of bugged me and I’ve just never said anything, you know? I’m not trying to be a dick, I’ve just been watching this Tony Robbins shit and he talks about how you should express your feelings and right now I’m feeling like this kind of blows lol”, or something along those lines that fits your personality, and they don’t support you, well, they might not have your best interests at heart and it could be time to find new friends.
“I get the feeling that expressing my emotions in a ‘cool’ way will take a lot of time”
Yup, you’ll learn to do it. It’s like before you were way into the Nice Guy zone, and now you’re going to swing way into the Asshole zone because being abrasive/etc. will get you some results even if it alienates some people and that’s addicting so you’ll take it and run with it…but down the road you’ll swing back a bit into the middle and find what fits you best. We all go through it as we learn about ourselves, a lot of the stuff I did when I started out I don’t do anymore because I’ve figured out my Identity.
“it feels WAY better just being like ‘fuck it this is how I feel right now.’”
You’re finally being honest, both with other people around you and with yourself. Understand that you were never a bad person, or a liar or anything, you were just socially conditioned like 99% of the world and you’re finally waking up to that and breaking out of it…it’s like taking weights off your limbs and being able to finally move again…that feeling of freedom is a big part of why PUA sucks people in.
On a deep note, I feel like I live an extremely honest, congruent life, compared to pretty much everyone else I know. I know who I am, what I want, what I approve and don’t approve of, what I expect from the people around me and my relationships, and I’m very up-front about all that and don’t apologize for it. People might not like my views, but they respect that I’m honest. Where on the flip side I know guys cheating on their GFs, or girls lying about how they feel because they’re scared to rock the boat in their relationships with their family, or people who cut loose and act completely different when they’re drunk and all the repressed shit comes out, etc. etc. and to me it’s just a bunch of people who are often genuinely good people, but they’re trapped in this suffocating web where they can’t express or go for what they really want (or even admit it to themselves). In a way it’s sad to me, because being my friends, I wish they could break free and live honestly and lead happier lives. (some of them actually thrive off the drama though lol)
“Then….here it comes…she makes a joke:”
Her teasing you is an Indicator of Interest, though she might not even realize it. Would you tease a 400lb fat girl to her face? Probably not. But you might call the hottie you’re into a nerd for wearing a Transformers shirt.
On the flip side, would she say that to you if you were some gross homeless bum off the street? No, she’d want to end the convo as quick as possible and stay off your radar.
“But man….it instantly pissed me off.”
In time, you’ll legitimately laugh it off in your head. Like your internal dialogue will change completely from how it is now. So don’t worry that you got pissed, you’re still at the “fake it till you make it” stage.
“And yeah, I could have attempted to ignore it”
A lot of guys here will recommend that you be all James Bond style and just raise an eyebrow. And that’s cool, but step back and look at this emotionlessly from a logical Game perspective:
1) She shit-tested you.
2) Shit-testing you is actually an Indicator of Interest.
3) Passing a shit-test demonstrates congruency and increases her attraction for you.
Add that all up and you basically have a PERFECT opportunity to increase her attraction, by demonstrating your personality. Raising an eyebrow James Bond style doesn’t demonstrate much. But doing something like you do here, where you roleplay that your heart is broken, that you’re in love, making her feel drama like maybe you’re really hurt by her or pissed at her so she’s thinking about your interaction after you’ve left, etc…how much BETTER is that in terms of building an emotional reaction in her to you?
So you handled this perfectly. Breakdown:
“So, before, I would have gone along with it.”
And you would have been lying/dishonest/incongruent and not expressing yourself and your personality (aka your Identity). And a little notch of frustration would be added to all that pent up “I get really pissed off at stuff around me that I didn’t realize actually bugs me!” energy you’ve had for probably years.
“What was your name again?”
Here she tries to take/set the frame: aka tell me your name, do what I want/expect because I’m a girl and men do what I want.
“…man, that really hurts. I really like you. You know who I am.”
Here you avoid her frame and keep/set yours: you’re not answering her question, you’re scolding her, and you’re fucking with her emotions a bit proclaiming your really liking her (she thinks “?? is he serious? is he a creeper? does he like me? wtf?” and it’s not an attracted reaction, but it’s ANY kind of reaction, and that’s better than NO reaction…you’re appearing on her radar. You can make a bad first impression or a good first impression, it really doesn’t matter (as long as you know how to recover from the bad one), as long as you make SOME impression you’re polarizing yourself and standing out from the crowd of Nice Guys she runs into)
“Aw, come on, I’m just kidding.”
Here she tries to take the frame: implies you’re over-reacting and really the response she’s expecting here is a butt-hurt “oh okay, sorry I over-reacted…” But what do YOU do? lol:
“NO. I’M IN LOVE WITH YOU GODDAMMIT! WE ARE…UN-SIMPATICO!”
lol awesome. Here you’re shitting all over her frame: you’re not backing down from what you said, you’re not doing what she wants, and in fact you’re exaggerating way over the top the very thing she told you to basically tone down. This is the classic way of passing shit-tests. Like “How many girls have you slept with?” “Just one.” “No way, tell me the truth!!” “Okay, one billion.” (no apology, not doing what she wants, exaggerating, basically showing her that you aren’t so captivated with her for having tits that you won’t fuck around and amuse yourself in the interaction).
You probably didn’t do it on purpose, but you actually handled this in an optimal manner.
“So, I’m thinking, ‘whatever…’ I told the truth in a sort of jokey way.”
Yep. As you go, you’ll learn to express the truth but with a self-amused grin internally and externally, instead of being pissed on the inside and having to consciously filter it through a “how to present this in a non-butt-hurt way”. Like it legitimately won’t bother you and you’ll see it for what it is (a chance to demonstrate your personality and build attraction) and you’ll be HAPPY when she does shit like that because you’ll know she’s helping you lead things to sex.
“So anyway, the girl I’m kind of crushing on is like”
As expected. You’re on her radar and you left her thinking about the interaction and you and not knowing what the deal is exactly…are you mad at her? Do you love her? Why did you react like that? Who ARE you? What’s your deal?? And you allowed her the opportunity to re-open you easily. She doesn’t necessarily want to fuck you or is super attracted or anything, but your last interaction basically left her with an itch that she needs to scratch.
Try walking away from a girl who’s talking to you mid-sentence sometime. lol Like don’t say anything or pretend to see a friend across the room or anything, just literally go from staring at her making eye-contact while she talks, to just walking away and getting a drink or whatever and standing elsewhere or making small-talk with someone else. It’s almost guaranteed that she’ll approach you again or be relieved when you come back to her…again it’s not necessarily attraction, but it’s an itch she needs to scratch and makes her wonder wtf just happened there, which means she’s thinking about YOU and not some other dude…this is basically getting her to react emotionally to you.
“Hey, you know I’m just messing with you, right?”
Same exact frame-grab attempt as she did before, except worded differently. She implies you’re over-reacting and really the response she’s expecting here is a butt-hurt “oh okay, sorry I over-reacted…” But again what do you do?:
“My heart was broken then…but that’s all behind me now. I’ve moved on with my life.”
No apologies for your actions, not doing what she wants, and exaggerating the stuff she wanted you to tone down. But now you’ve added to the role-play and are amusing yourself and this is the point where she goes from “not sure what this guy’s deal is” to “ohhhhh he’s just fucking with me!! lol what a fucker!!!”
THIS is the point where Attraction is sparked. Essentially what you’ve done is filled her with a bunch of anxious emotions (“omg is he mad at me, did I say something wrong, who is he, does he think I’m an asshole”) and let her stew on it for a bit, then pulled the cork and swooooosh all that anxiety rushes out like air out of a balloon and she’s relieved and can relax.
It’s the same feeling of relief as when you gotta’ run home to take a shit and just barely make it to the can in time. You’re never more appreciative of that toilet than that moment lol because you had so much anxiety leading up to it.
Now she knows you’re a guy that does whatever he wants and just fucks around with girls who look like her, and that you’re not intimidated and won’t fall into her frame and you’re smart enough to fool her and she feels silly for falling for it. How many guys do you think do all that to her the first time they meet her?
“(nods with a laugh) Okay, good to hear it.”
She’s legit attracted and curious here, but as a girl she doesn’t really have any game lol So she doesn’t know what to follow up with. This is why PUAs stress Leading, because this is where it’s like the reins are on the ground and the horse wants to go somewhere, but it needs you to pick up those reins and go “Let’s go get a drink.” etc.
“YEAH. IT’S REAL FUCKING GOOD.”
lol not the optimal way of responding (neither of you is taking the reins here and leading things forward), but not terrible or anything. It’s just one of those “you won $50 but you could’ve won $500″ moments that you’ll learn to spot in the future as your game becomes more streamlined and efficient.
“She says something loud like “they’re all talking in alphabetical order!” Her dyke friend immediately moves to make fun of her, by turning to me and repeating what she said.”
Understand that at this point THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT YOU lol Like when you were off talking to whoever about whatever after you told her you love her and walked off, guaranteed the convo involved the HB7 going “Who was THAT??” and the girls gossipping about you and your relationship with CrushGirl etc. (just as a heads-up, Field Reports are why we give girls names like HBCrush and ChubbyDyke etc., so it’s easier to keep track of who’s who in the report, so I’m calling your crush CrushGirl from here)
Also, girls speak loudly when they WANT you to hear what they’re saying and they want SOMEONE to react. My Natural buddy does it too, as a girl’s passing he’ll say something a little extra loud, often something offensive (lol), to make them react to him and then he can bring them into the conversation.
Dyke isn’t necessarily cock-blocking, but she is technically an obstacle. Fortunately you again handle this flawlessly for a guy who’s new to game:
“And I blink…and just nod like ‘YEAH THEY ARE.’”
lol. She tried to set the frame of “we’re making fun of HB7, back me up!!” and you shit on her frame and said “no, HB7′s frame is correct.” So of course she has to fight that and try to get you to cave:
“And the dyke is like ‘noooo, she just said it in such a dramatic way.’”
She’s probably pretty aggressive personality-wise and used to people caving to her frame. So she’s like “c’mon, agree with me damn you!! you’re supposed to agree with me I’m the queen of the universe and you’re just some boy!!”
“And I just put my hand in front of her face”
Fucking LOL. I bet if you could have seen her face behind your hand it would’ve been the funniest thing in the world.
“and looked at the HB 7.”
Solid. You’re good at this “showing intent” thing, where you cut from joking around (spiking their Buying Temperature) to “here’s a moment of realness. I want you.” etc. This kind of thing will often freeze girls in their tracks like a deer in headlights.
“They were fucking talking in alphabetical order, for sure, and your friend is a huge fucking hater. Deal with it.”
Like a BOSS. Understand that this Dyke chick probably has these girls and random guys all cave to her frame all the time, and you just stomped on her frame and laid out how shit is gonna’ work. You are the dominant authority figure of this interaction. That shit is SUPER Attractive.
Bringing it back to your height, remember how I said that being tall is just a quick indicator of “this guy is probably dominant and authoritative and can protect me and handle his shit”…it’s not that the height itself is attractive, it’s what that height represents to her, the same way we don’t find a tight dress itself attractive if it’s just laying on the floor, it’s when it’s on her body and showing off “this is a sexually attractive woman” that we’re attracted. Put that same dress on a fatty uggo and we’re not attracted so the dress itself has no magic powers.
So what you just did here, was demonstrate the same things that they expect tall guys to demonstrate. You dominated, were authoritative, held your frame, and showed the HB7 who was about to be made fun of by her friend that you can protect her and handle any shit the world throws at her. All the same things she expects a tall guy to be able to do based on his height…you’ve demonstrated through your personality.
“The HB 7′s mouth drops”
She was probably staring at you with giant wide anime-eyes as it dropped lol We call this the “Doggy dinner-bowl look” (DDB), like a dog looking up at it’s owner as it brings food to pour into it’s bowl, like it’s owner is the most special wonderful amazing magnificent thing its ever seen in it’s LIFE lol This means you have massive Attraction, and usually happens after you “fry her circuits” by spiking her Buying Temperature way up which is what you did here by obliterating the Dyke’s tests lol
Of course, that comes with reprocussions
“and the dyke starts to tag-team me with the other ‘questionable’ girl.”
lol often the dynamic at this point is like, you can be staring your HB7 down hardcore looking into her DDB eyes and for her the entire world fades into the background and the Dyke and her friend are just yip-yapping at you, trying to get your attention back like a child tugging at your pant-leg and if you just keep staring at your HB7 unphased by the Dyke and friend, it just builds massive Attraction.
If you started responding to the Dyke and friend and falling into their frame explaining yourself like they were like “fuck you, you’re short you can’t put your hand in my face like that!!” and you got all “whatever fuck you I’m short but you’re ugly, I’ll do what I want” “you’re an asshole” “well fuck you!”, you would have completely lost all the attraction the HB7 had at this point for you because that would have been incongruent with the badass Boss display you just put on. But instead:
“My response was almost instinctive, I just pretended not to hear them and danced a little in place, swirling around my cup of wine.”
You did great here.
Like I say, staring her down would be flawless, but this was solid, and waaaay better than engaging the Dyke and falling into her frame.
“I felt something I’d never felt in a social interaction — domination. They were insulting me, but there was something different in it — they were supplicating.”
Pretty different feeling than when that girl on the dance floor sneered at you hey? Imagine how this moment looked to anyone in the room watching (and people do watch lol especially girls)…you’ve got 2 girls begging for your approval, and 2 girls laughing and eye-fucking you and probably girl-coding eachother (ie – looking into eachother’s eyes subtly communicating to eachother, learn to watch for this and read it lol) about how awesome you are, and the whole time you’re just standing there like a boss dominating them all, ignoring the supplicating girls and defending your HB7 from them.
Like, what a fucking scene lol You’re now the guy who’s making girls react to him, instead of the guy reacting to the girls around him. It’s a difficult nuance to explain, but that feeling you felt is the result of it and you can probably FEEL how Attractive that must be to a woman who wants a dominant alpha male.
Okay a lot of little things are about to happen in this last bit of the interaction and I’ll break them down bit by bit…you’ll find it’s kind of like a fight where it all happens quick and you look back on it and you’re like “wow that escalated fast” when you take it apart. As you gain competance, like becoming a good fighter, time starts to slow down in the moment and you can see the guy’s punch coming in slow motion…it’s the same thing with social dynamics, you feel 10 steps ahead of everyone when you’re good.
“HB 7 and my original ‘don’t know your name’ friend start laughing.”
They both want to fuck you btw lol CrushGirl wasn’t super attracted before, but you pinged on her radar, and rocked all of this, and now she can tell HB7 is into you because girls can sense other girls’ Buying Temperature so now you’ve got social proof, after doing all that boss shit, and now she’s attracted to you too.
“Then, the HB 7 suddenly steps closer and is like ‘can I have your number?’”
Have you grown 2 feet taller since that HB6 on the dance floor a few weeks back sneered at you? OR, have you started learning to express yourself and socially dominate your interactions with women?
“No bullshit here, and I saw — I felt! — the attraction radiating from her toward me.”
lol You weren’t imagining it. Logically based on the stuff you’ve described, it makes perfect consistent sense in terms of PUA principles.
“I blinked, and before I could say even one word,”
lol this’ll happen a lot. You’ll hit some kind of unexpected success that’ll blind-side you and you’ll often lose the girl because you freeze in a moment of “holy shit did that just happen?? what do I–oops moment is over” It’s that same feeling as if you were trapped in a dark cave and then crawled through a dark little doorway in it and bam, there’s this huge beautiful sunny beach on the other side and you’re just like “…woah…”
As you experience more and more of these situations, you’ll get used to them and expect them and be ready to pounce. It’s why really pro guys can escalate so fast, they’re used to it…but even then, a really pro guy who’s banged a thousand girls in bed will probably still be mind-blown by his first bathroom blowjob or threesome etc. There’s always new experiences out there.
“my original friend pushes her more toward me and is like ‘yeah, get each other’s info…get married…go for it.’ ”
lol because she’s jealous now. She’s trying to AMOG you a little bit and fuck it up with the “get married, go for it!” bit. Like with a dude and a girl I’ll tell him “oh ya, this guy’s perfect for you, you guys should fuck right now there’s a bathroom over there, you guys are perfect together” etc. and it’s a way of sabotaging things by escalating them too fast lol
It’s basically a big shit-test and you just ignore it and focus on your goal, getting your girl’s number.
“I managed to get her number”
Props! Not sure if it’ll flake. It’s hard to tell in these situations because for all you know her Dyke friend and your CrushGirl sabotaged you once they all left the party…like if Dyke was pissed or CrushGirl was jealous enough she could just talk smack about you until HB7 would feel too socially judged by her peer group if she dared fuck you.
“but got almost no interaction with her after that…her friends like, swooped in on her, surrounding her like a cockblocking wall. They left 10 minutes later to find a better party.”
lol ya, this is why we try to isolate the girl (usually at that DDB stage). If you can get her alone, you can escalate it and probably fuck her that night, but when there’s all these other obstacles around you can lose a perfectly “on” lay and it’s pretty frustrating.
“So yeah…what do we make of that?”
You did a lot better than you realize lol. Again I don’t know if she’ll flake or not, you left an amazing impression on her but a lot can happen between getting the number and meeting up again. This is why we like to go for the lay and consider the phone number a fallback plan “if we HAVE to”…but even then we try to use getting the number to set up a Time Bridge (Mystery Method stuff here) where instead of “give me your number” it’s “give me your number and I’ll take you to that place with the thing we talked about”.
“I’m pretty sure I did like most everything wrong and caught a spot of luck”
lol you did great.
I would txt her and try to set up an isolated Day 2, VS “my buddies and I will be at Club Blah on Friday, you should come out” because her friends and your friends will all cockblock you guys. So shoot for like, drinks and throwing darts at a quiet pub somewhere, or inviting her along to some kind of hobby you have, etc. You don’t have to be totally alone, you can be in a crowded environment, but just make sure that IN that environment, you and her don’t know anyone (or at least SHE doesn’t know anyone and you only know people who will make you look good and give you props and help you, not AMOG/cockblock you). Then you can build comfort/rapport since you’ve already got Attraction and escalate to the lay.
You might still fuck it up, remember we’re setting the frame that you don’t fully expect to get laid till spring or summer here, you’re still learning. So don’t beat yourself if you do fuck it up…but you should absolutely definitely txt her and TRY to push for a Day 2.
Immoralgables compiled some texting stuff here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ou36b9mx5d44h31 – Give that a read if you have time, but the jist of what you want to do is spike her Buying Temperature through flirting/teasing via txt, then when you know she’s in a good mood from that, push for the Day 2 and get her to agree to it solidly (if she’s wishy-washy, pull the offer away or flake on her and try again next week).
I like to get them to a quiet pub near my place early, like 6 or 7, where I know we won’t run into anyone we know, and pitch it like “then if you turn out to be crazy, it’s early enough that I can sneak out the pub’s bathroom window and meet up with my friends while you ask the waiter to check on me lol” (as if you’re still qualifying her and not sure about her). Then when you guys meet up, flirt and tease, build comfort/rapport, escalate, and take her back to your place (“As much as I like paying $10 for a rye and coke, I have a bottle of wine at my place just up the street. Let’s go there and drink instead.”) and stay in and fuck all night.
This one will be fun. lol
“and I’m like ‘who the FUCK is out here?’”
lol nothing wrong with making an entrance. Especially if you’re feeling good and dominant and like you own the party. Stiffler’s introductions in the American Pie movies are great examples of this, where the camera follows him just dominating the room. Some people think he’s awesome, some think he’s an asshole, but everyone is reacting to him and every girl watching the movie thinks “I would so fuck that guy”.
“-Everyone- but her seems unmoved by my entrance, but she laughs.”
lol this is fine. She’s a girl, she recognizes unstifled behavior which signifies confidence etc. so you stand out on her radar. When Mystery walks into the room every guy thinks “what a tool” and ignores him, and even a lot of average girls think that he’s just some weirdo, but the hot peacocked girls go “hey THIS is a guy who has confidence!” and smile.
Your girl is only an HB6 and all that, but remember that there’s your rating of her, other guy’s rating of her, her OWN rating of her, and her rating in that moment in that environment. So a cocky bitchy Vegas 6 in some podunk small town pub things she’s an HB10 and you have to treat her as such and Neg the fuck out of her. But an innocent humble shy small-town 10 in a high-end Vegas nightclub surrounded by Playboy looking chicks might feel like she’s an HB6 compared to them, so you’d have to treat her as such and not be Negging her. This is calibration that you’ll learn as you meet more and more women in different environments with different personality types.
“My friend is like ‘hey that’s a nice sweater, you look really good in it.’”
Nice! That’s a good friend. An alpha AMOG type might try to tool you in front of girls and those are the guys you’ll often have to start hanging out with less. You should only be surrounded by people who support you and make you feel good about yourself.
“At this point the HB 6 starts telling me to model the shirt”
lol it sounds like you’re a decent looking dude like the working out is going good for you and stuff. And you don’t handle this badly here because she gets a chance to cop a feel (lol), but it’s another case of “$50 vs $500″ like earlier.
Check out John Mayer at 20 seconds into this clip when she asks about his tattoos:
He instinctively knows this girl thinks he’s attractive, and starts teasing her about it. The “spin me around, you want to spin me around?” thing fries her circuits. Of course once you start spiking her BT, her boyfriend might get jealous lol
“and you know, I’m like ‘yeah, I guess I can just be a dancing monkey here, screw it.’ So I do it”
Ya, you always fall into bragging/qualifying your muscles (“traps are too big to be drawn” AMOG comment from before, etc.). In THIS case it’s okay because she’s already attracted to you off your entrance and your friend giving you props on the shirt and whatever else she knows about you, but keep an eye on this in the future because a lot of times hotter girls will dangle an easy hoop/reward in front of you (spin around for me so I can feel you up!) but in jumping through that hoop you’ll lose her attraction.
Mystery calls this Hoop Theory, where if she sets up a hoop (“model for me!”), you can DO what she wants, BUT you should set your own hoop up for her to jump through first…it can be ANYTHING, something minor like “hold my drink for me.” or something major like “you first, that’s a sexy dress. ” If she doesn’t jump through your hoop, you don’t jump through her hoop.
It’s a way of supplicating for a mutually benefitial reward (she wants to feel you up and you want her to feel you up so it’s win/win) without doing it from a supplicating frame where you can lose attraction. Again in this situ you were okay, but with like an HB9 you can fuck yourself over…I’m just pointing it out because it might be a pattern for you, especially as you continue working out and liking your body more and more.
“and I notice that she’s touching me a lot,”
’cause she wants to booooone you. lol
“whatever, her bf’s right here, obviously she’s just touchy.”
You’ll be surprised at 1) how blatantly girls will flirt with you in front of their BFs, and 2) how OBLIVIOUS those BFs will often be TO her flirting.
I’ve had a LOT of awkward situations in my social circles where my buddy’s GFs/wives will flirt with me hardcore because I’m doing my thing on other girls in the group or bar and they see it and are attracted, and to ME it’s like this blatant flashing neon sign above their head but I look at my buddy and he’s just completely unaware of all the sub-communications going on, and I have to remove myself from the interaction ASAP for the sake of not creating drama in my social circle.
Make no mistake though, she wants to fuck you. Don’t do it if her BF is your friend though, there are other girls out there. Tons of em.
“asking me to turn around to see if I have the right butt to model the shirt”
lol because that makes logical sense. This is blatant flirting on her part. I would have a field-day with this if she weren’t my friend’s girlfriend lol
Of course she does. Because she wants to boooooone youuuuu
“and she’s like ‘still popping that collar eh?’”
Shit-test. Trying to get you to apologize for who you are or be embarrassed and qualify yourself to her etc.
“And I’m like, ‘fucking right, you pop the collar when you’re bringing the funk.’”
Handled like a boss lol Objectively someone might read this and be like “bringing the funk?? who the fuck says that, bro that’s lame don’t say that girls will think you’re lame” but the reality is that you can say whatever you want when you’re feeling in state and confident, even if it doesn’t make sense or is dorky, and the girl, because she’s attracted, will think it’s awesome.
It’s that saying of “I don’t do it because it’s cool, it’s cool because I do it.”
“She responds ‘…it’s a real short funk, eh?’”
Shit-test lol She’s trying to throw herself out of state because she’s attracted to you and sub-consciously knows she wants to fuck you and her Anti-Slut Defense is fucking with her because your friend is her boyfriend so she’s not SUPPOSED to be attracted.
So a shit-test is to make sure you’re congruent, but the reason they want to find out if you’re congruent is because they want to fuck you…so they’re like a car rolling down a hill toward a wall, they start pumping the brakes trying to stop the car. If you fail the shit-test they go “whew!! I knew it, he’s not that confident/cool/etc., now I can be unattracted ahhhh” which is why if you fail a shit-test, the attraction dies FAST as fuck usually and ONE failed shit-test can bomb an entire sarge even at the last second in the bedroom with the really hot girls.
BUT…if you PASS the shit-tests, then the girl realizes as she jams on the brakes that the brake-lines have been cut and oh shit she can’t stop the car and her emotions spike through the roof. She jams the brakes again, over and over, sometimes just a few times, sometimes all the way till your dick is in her, but she keeps trying to throw herself out of state to not fuck you and it doesn’t work lol
You passed her collar shit-test, so now she tries a height shit-test. You’ll notice that a lot of girls won’t shit-test you on your height right away, they’ll try shit-testing you on looking gay or popping your collar or whatever, and it’s when you don’t react to THAT that they step it up and start targeting your height because they think “shit, I can’t get to him…but he’s short, and short guys are always insecure, so I’m gonna’ drop the big nuke and shit-test him about his height! HAH!!”
You’ll also notice that the more they think a shit-test SHOULD get you to react, and you pass it smoothly, the MORE their attraction will spike, because you’re handling a tougher shit-test.
…and if you happen to handle it like THIS:
“So I just stop and look straight at her ‘I will FUCK the shit out of you.’”
lololololol I literally snorted my drink out my nose reading that. That was so unexpected, but absolutely perfect.
Again, I don’t think you consciously knew what you were doing but basically you demonstrated the behavior of a guy who saw “this girl wants me, she’s trying to tease me but I can tell she wants to fuck me, because all girls want to fuck me, and I’m going to escalate on her now” which is what a Natural high-value player type does…he senses when she’s attracted and considers all her tests as just flirting and confidently plows through and escalates and assumes attraction.
Now as a short guy especially, this is great, because some girls will label you as asexual the way they do with asians etc. where it’s like, they just don’t see you as someone they could fuck. So what you’re doing here is smashing her in the face with “I’m a sexual guy, sure I’m short but I fuck like a goddamn lion” and you get the DDB wide eyed look as she creams herself because you’ve taken yourself out of the asexual non-threat category/label and put yourself into the “if you’re around me, I’m going to fuck the shit out of you” category that’s attractive.
The irony is probably now in the future a chick will say “you’re short” and you’ll go “I’ll fuck the shit out of you” hoping to get the same reaction and it’ll bomb completely because you’ll be doing it with outcome dependance instead of this “what’s going to happen, someone yell at me for saying something offensive? Who gives a shit.” vibe you had here lol This happens to us all, but you’re game will evolve and you’ll come up with new ways to destroy this shit-test that get the same result, no worries.
“Her eyes widen”
“and she just laughs it off”
You’ve fried her circuits here, she doesn’t know what to do…deer in the head-lights style. If you walked away right now or someone else came over or a friend took her to the bathroom, her BT would settle down and she might even give you the cold shoulder later or feel like you think she’s a slut or something and start drama.
Or if you got into a rational discussion with her about how she wants to fuck you, that could fuck it up too because then you’re forcing her to acknowledge that she’s a slut which triggers her ASD etc.
“then I start dancing — she starts dancing with me. FYI — totally not the kind of dancing bf’s are okay with.”
But because you just drop the subject and let it hang in the air and just start dancing, she stops talking too, and from here it’s all physical.
You could take her into the bathroom right now and fuck her. Like, this is that moment. All you’d have to do is say “come with me.” take her by the hand and lead her to the bathroom (ie – isolate her), pin her against the wall and make out, and put her hand on your cock over your pants and it’d snowball from there.
Keep in mind that that was just in that moment. If you run into her today, you’ll be starting over back at square one, with at best a little attraction but often no attraction or even ANTI-attraction because she feels slutty for the thoughts she was thinking while you danced (or her BF chewed her out at home after etc.) lol So you can’t just run into her on the street and pull her into a bathroom…this was an eclipse of the moon lined up perfectly for a moment, an open window that’s shut now.
At the same time, the next time she gets drunk and you’re around and you do some alpha badass shit around her and she falls back into this feeling again, and you guys have isolation, she’ll probably get flirty again and you could probably escalate it to fuck her if you played it right.
THAT SAID…I don’t think you should try to fuck her, since she’s your buddy’s GF and all and it will fuck your social circle up hardcore drama-wise and right now you need good friends and party invites and all that shit more than you need one lay followed by a bunch of drama, fighting, and being ostracized from your social circles.
But it’s important that you know that that moment was there 100%. Again you didn’t grow 2 feet taller, you just presented yourself better and demonstrated some alpha shit.
“And you know, he laughs — she backs off and is like ‘oooooh, it’s just the shirt, can’t resist it. It’s a great shirt.’”
this is Hypergamy, rationalization hamster, avoiding responsibility for her actions, etc. in action.
Now I’m starting to think something is happening…”
For the record, I’d have called her wanting to fuck you back at modelling your ass in the shirt…possibly even before that at the modelling it in general. Like, that’s where guys like myself and my Natural buddies would place the “she wants to fuck” flag in this interaction and where a light would flick on in our heads and put her on our radar of wanting to fuck us. This comes in time with reference experiences.
“So she looks over at me and is like”
This is the same as CrushGirl re-opening you. You’re on her radar, intrigued her, and she wants to interact more and scratch that itch.
“So where’s your girlfriend?”
Huuuuuuuuuuuge ioi. This is how girls test the water to see if you’re taken or not when they want to fuck you. They’ll say “my friend wants to know if you’re single” or “where’s your girlfriend” or “your girlfriend is a lucky girl” etc. where they give you the chance to say “oh I don’t have one.”
There’s a lot you can respond here depending on your personality and what you want out of the interaction. Like if I want her to set me up with her friend I’ll say “oh we broke up recently, I’m pretty out of it now…your friend is super cute though, but I think I should just take a break from dating, you know?” and she’ll insist on introducing me to her. Or if I want to fuck her and know she has a BF I’ll say “Don’t have one, I don’t do the relationship thing…it makes me feel trapped, like sometimes you meet someone and you just want to see where it goes but most people will judge you for it because you’re dating someone. Personally I think people are too hung up about sex, sometimes it’s just fun to fuck around with no strings attached…” and set the framework where she can start rationalizing to herself that it’s okay for us to fuck, and then we can bang later behind her BFs back.
Again I don’t recommend that for you lol I wouldn’t do it at your stage where you need social circles, but even now I wouldn’t do it if I knew the BF let alone if I was friends with him. Personal code and all, but decide for yourself what’s important to you since that’s the whole theme of all this.
“Don’t have one.”
Nice and simple. You can say pretty much anything here, it’s again the “$50 vs $500″ thing where if you WANTED to, you could use this as a foothold to escalate the interaction toward a specific goal, but this is a solid neutral “let’s just see where this chick takes this because I’m intrigued by all this shit tonight” response where no one could be like “dude quit flirting with my girl!”
“Oh yeah, you’re a pretty hot guy…”
Indicator of Interest, obviously.
“are you gay?”
This could be a shit-test, BUT possibly not. You’d have to figure it out from reading her vibe and calibrating which it is.
1) Again, she’s attracted, she knows it, she knows she’s making a fool of herself and her ASD is shouting at her “keep it in your pants woman!!! we can’t fuck this guy!!! even tho omg we want to!!!” So she’s trying to throw herself out of state by shit-testing you hoping you’ll fail. This is usually early in the interaction or from dudes or from girls being bitchy (Dyke from before).
or 2) Later in the sarge, like this, when Attraction is already built up, it’s an actual question on her part. Like she thinks you’re so magnificent that she’s like “…how is he single?? How has no girl swept him up??”
I would suspect it’s actually number 2, not 1, because you two are past the “teasing game” stage and now she’s just got attraction and horniness swirling aroud in her mind…but again, you’d have to judge based on whether you feel she was asking sincerely/wonderously or like she was teasing you.
“See, in my mind I’m like ‘why the FUCK are people saying I’m gay?! Goddammit!’”
“But I have enough sense to try and process the whole message.”
Good. This’ll get easier in time.
“”Are you interested?” is the first thing I can think of. Meh.”
This is actually really solid. You’re doing the same thing as before with the “fuck the shit out of you” line where you’re just assuming attraction. That’s the behavior of a guy who’s used to women wanting to fuck him, it implies that you have reason to expect girls to want to fuck you, etc.
You’re not answering her question, you’re not doing what she wants, and you’re escalating through that window of attraction.
“She laughs, but I just stare at her. Like….just hardcore stare. She looks away.”
Perfect. You’re not backing down or laughing it off. What you’ve done is sort of a Statement of Intent. Like you’ve let her know “I’m serious. I’m thinking about fucking you, we’re past joking around here.” just by staring her down.
“If I didn’t have a boyfriend, yeah probably…”
And there’s your reward for pushing things like you did. You’ve just collected a reference experience where a girl with a BF who’s your friend will admit to you that she’d fuck you if he wasn’t in the picture. Again you didn’t grow 2 feet taller, you’ve just run really solid game.
Also note that her ASD kicked in here. She still wanted to fuck you, but her ASD went “BOYYYFRIEEEENDDDD!!! Don’t be a sluuuuutttt!!!!” and forced her to snuff her feelings out under the boyfriend comment.
In these situations we like to handle this stuff ahead of time, like my response above where I talk about sex not being a big deal and relationships being stifling etc. where it plants in her head that I’m not a guy who will judge her for fucking around on her boyfriend…as a result, I tend not to get this kind of ASD or it’s really minimal and I can easily plow through it for the lay.
Again it’s good that you didn’t, because the guy is your friend and it’ll bite you in the ass later. But it’s important that you know this was all happening.
“Then, I just sense that the moment is right and the frame has shifted.”
Yup. Now she’s feeling kind of dirty/slutty/ashamed of her feelings and she isn’t sure what you think about her and is probably worried that you might think she’s a slut and all these negative thoughts are looping through her head…remember the balloon expelling all it’s anxiety air?
“So I grin at her and I’m like… “…hey, it’s okay…I’m gay, remember.”
Perfect. phwooooosh goes the air out of the anxiety balloon as relief washes over her. This was actually a really socially calibrated move on your part. It’s good that you can “sense the vibe”, that’ll help you a lot in pickup.
“Instant laugh and her. hand. goes on my thigh (!!!!?!?!?!!!)”
lol Same relief as the girl from before felt where her attraction spikes a bit. With the CrushGirl it was early in the interaction so it wasn’t as massive as with this girl because this girl and you have been through a whole night of sexual tension and adventure together.
You’ve also demonstrated that understand her feelings, but that you won’t judge her or tell on her. If you had said like “ya, he’s a good guy”, she’d've felt worse. If you said “whatever, I’m hotter than him” you’d've looked like a jerk. But you basically said “hey, it’s cool to feel how you feel, I won’t judge you for feeling attracted to me ” This is the same kind of thing I get with girls with BFs that I hook up with when I disable their ASD about it.
“along with “…you’re a problem.””
lol She’d actually still be up for a fuck if you partied together, demonstrated some value, got her alone, and isolated yourselves. Again I don’t think you should do it, but it’s there. This is her saying “god, you turn me on and you’re not doing anything to dry my pussy up…if I hang around you, I’m in serious danger of getting the shit fucked out of me, and I know I SHOULD feel bad about wanting that but fuck, I don’t! You are a problem lol”
“and then her bf comes back. They leave shortly thereafter.”
I bet she fucked the shit out of him that night, while thinking of you lol
And there you go. Good stuff man. Hope this helps connect a bunch of dots for you and you start noticing the consistent patterns (why girls shit-test, how to pass them, why they boost attraction, how social proof and social dominance builds attraction, how girls will try to get you to jump through hoops, etc.).
You’re doing great, keep it up!
Checking in…huge step backwards. I’m noticing more and more that state control is probably my biggest problem. It’s weird, I’m starting to view social interactions the same way I view poker hands…just trying to find, then fix leaks and maximize EV, lol.
Anyway, had a party for a friend of my social group’s over the weekend, and — now that I’m aware of the manosphere — I kinda realize that this friend of ours, in the way she acts toward me, doesn’t respect me as a man. I never really noticed before, but now that I’m paying attention, it’s very strange. I mean, this was just a friendly interaction, so I’m not trying to ‘game’ hardcore or anything, but I am trying to at least present more of a confident persona.
So we’re at this bar, sitting at two tables, and I’m having a long, fun chat with these three girls who are also in the social circle, but more distant from the core group. But almost every damned time I make a successful joke or get the attention of everyone in a positive way, frenemy is sure to talk shit. Like, without fail. And then, I notice that the stuff she’s saying sort of mirrors the one-off critiques I got the other night — it always boils down to something like ‘you’re gay’ ‘your outfit sucks,’ and then something along the lines of being a snob — which flat-out isn’t true, everyone I know says I’m one of the most down-to-earth people they’ve met. She teases all the guys in the group, but from her to me it’s way different. I attempt to use the whole ‘two second alpha stare’ on her remarks….which PISSES her off even more! Eventually, she actively starts trying to get the other girls around her in on the shit talking.
At this point, I kinda break and start reacting way more. Not in an angry way, but you know…like…in that way where I’m somehow justifying myself. I count the experience as a good thing though, because slowly I’m starting to see that these skills apply to most every area of life. So much of how you’re treated seems to boil down to how people perceive your SMV to be.
Office Holiday Party at the Club
Setting is simple — we get a booth at a pretty nice club. When we get there my plan is to just hang out with the work group for like half an hour to hour before peeling off to hit on EVERY hot girl in the club. I know it’s going to be an uphill battle because the club is a country-ish club (line dancing on the floor, but lots of normal club music mixed in with the country music), and I ain’t a cowboy. So….at the dinner beforehand I had two budlights. At the club, while hanging out with the office, I had a like one and a half vodka orangejuices. I dunno what happened, but I felt like I got hit by a tranq dart. Not drunk, not buzzed, just tranquilized.
But, I managed to stick to the plan — somewhat — and make two approaches. The first approach was at the bar and consisted of ‘hey!’ (energy level way too high), and hb 8 nodding with an ‘wwwtttfff’ smile ‘uhhh hey!’ My mind was foggy so I said something stupid about seeing some lady trip in the middle of the line dancing. And she was like ‘what?! No way…’ And then I nodded (way too fast, so eager to get approval!) ‘Yeah, I helped her up…’ Now she turns toward me ‘wow that was really nice of you.’ Before I can think of anything to say….this big guy comes to the bar and puts his arm around her. Inward wince, I give it up almost immediately.
I see a legit hb 9 with two lady friends — probably a 5 and 4 respectively — just standing near the dancefloor, watching, and I walk up to them and say ‘hey, how are you guys doing?’ I was feeling kinda shitty over the last set and pretty much made the approach a cheesy pickup line. One of the friends looked — the 4 — and said, ‘we’re fine.’ But she said it dismissively. And at that point, I just gave it up for the night.
So…..I think really, I just need to nail down this ‘irrational self-confidence at all times’ thing.
I dropped a massive response to your other Field Report as a Reply to: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/double-dipping-alimony-whores/#comment-396263
Should show up today sometime when WordPress decides it loves me again and finally shows it lol
I got work to do right now but I’ll give this one a breakdown too. An off night sucks, but don’t worry, nothing you’ve written in this Field Report or the last is unfixable, even though it usually feels pretty demoralizing/hopeless when you’re playing the night back in your head without a clear idea of what’s happening or how to fix it.
This is why on PUA boards we write Field Reports, they’re not about bragging (well, some guys’ are lol), they’re so other PUAs can chime in with fresh unemotional 3rd-person perspectives and go “here’s where you went wrong, man! (explain explain explain) Get it? Next time try Such and Such!” and help get the guy heading down a path to fixing his sticking points.
A large combination of men passionately working together toward a single goal is pretty fucking powerful. I think that’s part of what freaks the blue pill crowd out about pickup, like “o shit the menz are pulling down the curtain and we can’t stop it!! quick, demonize them in the MSM so no one pays attention!!” Like Leiningen watching the ants sacrifice their bodies as bridges in the water ditch so the other ants can crawl over them…”o shit, they’re organized now” lol
Lol. Yeah, I mean…I can tell that I have a long way to go. But, another thing I’ve gained is mad respect for a few of my friends. I think I’m lucky to be in a social circle of well-connected, cool guys that make a point of randomly approaching women.
But these posts you leave, like I said, are awesome! Blending this with poker again, I had a moment where I was frustrated with having analyzed a hand wrong. Just, really annoyed. And, as I was talking about it….I just ignored the impulse to quiet my emotions and how I felt. Instead, I was just like ‘well, I guess I’m fucking wrong here man…I just really hate being wrong when I analyze shit, it pisses me right the fuck off.” While it’s just an outburst I allowed myself to have, and yeah, it’s revealing vulnerability to a friend…I feel like that’s a good thing. And I feel like this ‘game’ stuff is pushing me in that direction.
The direction is just one of being more human…realizing that it’s better to act out, even if it’s unmanaged and weird (at first) than holding back your emotions and who you are.
Yup, you’ve got it!
“as I was talking about it….I just ignored the impulse to quiet my emotions and how I felt. Instead, I was just like ‘well, I guess I’m fucking wrong here man…I just really hate being wrong when I analyze shit, it pisses me right the fuck off.” While it’s just an outburst I allowed myself to have, and yeah, it’s revealing vulnerability to a friend…I feel like that’s a good thing.”
Good stuff. That’s what I’m talking about in this post where your actual Identity is just shackled up right now, and that it might surprise you down the road when you start seeing who you REALLY are:
Guys and girls are usually surprised at how open a book I am with people I’ve just met. I’ll show all sorts of vulnerabilities and hold up my weaknesses for people to see, it’s all good to me. That’s just expressing who I am and people appreciate authenticity…and once you show them “look at my faults, we don’t have to pretend we’re perfect here, I won’t judge you if you don’t judge me” they’re almost relieved to be able to take off the mask for a bit and share their own faults and beliefs and feelings with me and you build a real legitimate connection with the person instead of a surface level one that a lot of people have.
This is part of why people who hang out with me feel like they’ve known me for years. They’ share stuff with me that only their closest best friends t know about them so it feels like we know eachother the way they know their closest best friends they’ve spent years building a relationship with, except I’ve only known them for a couple hours.
This whole authentic expression thing is REALLY powerful in the high-end social circles, where everyone is full of shit trying to impress eachother and put on some bravado and try to look perfect and flawless. Everyone’s sipping their wine all “yes, this wine is quite exquisite!” (meanwhile they don’t even LIKE drinking wine) and then I come in and shit all over the social etiquette in a charismatic fun way and show them that tonight, right here and right now, it’s okay to be retarded, and next thing you know those wine and cheese types are doing hooter-shooters of JD off the waitress’ tits with me, relieved to be able to let down their mask and really be themselves lol
Compare that to if I tried to throw on a suit and play the wine and cheese discussion game and run around in the “let’s try to impress everyone” rat race that I can’t possibly win because it’s all bullshit posturing to begin with. I suck them into my frame instead of letting them suck me into theirs…Strongest frame always wins.
“But, another thing I’ve gained is mad respect for a few of my friends. I think I’m lucky to be in a social circle of well-connected, cool guys that make a point of randomly approaching women. ”
You have no IDEA how lucky that is lol I ran solo game for years not because I wanted to but because I didn’t know any guys who wanted to go out and pick up, or any guys that were cool enough to actually keep up with the shit I was learning to do. I knew plenty of guys who’d stand around at the bar critiquing the hotness level of the girls that go by without actually talking to any of them lol It’s only the past couple years that I’ve had access to a solid core group of buddies who like to hit on girls at the bar. Going out solo tightened up my game a lot but man do I not miss it lol
My posts still haven’t shown up yet (sigh), so check the last couple articles in a day or two for a shitload of knowledge bombs being dropped in your face lol. Anyway, now on to this one, which will probably make more sense after you read the one that hasn’t shown up yet…if this one shows up, fuck it, who knows what you’ll get to read and when! lol
“I’m noticing more and more that state control is probably my biggest problem.”
That’ll stick around for a while. I recommend working on one or two things at a time, and state control is a pretty big one to tackle and the easiest time TO tackle it is when you have a solid foundation going. ie – if being internally validated involves having a “delusional sense of coolness” and fully believing you’re awesome, it’s a lot easier to do that when you’ve picked a few girls up or really nailed your body language down or achieved your workout goals etc. and have something you can logically base that on. This all depends on the type of learning method you resonate with and how hardcase a newbie you are and what your goals are, etc.
Viewing it like you view maximizing poker hands means you’re probably a pretty rational/analytical guy and you’ll probably do well with the analytical/strategic approach to this (VS the drill sergeant style “Man up and get in there you pussy!!” stuff that’s popular in the community these days). It honestly might not be the fastest route for getting quick results, but a slower learning strategy that you feel comfortable and in control with is a lot better than a faster learning strategy that feels like you’re just riding a roller-coaster hoping something useful sticks in your brain.
“I kinda realize that this friend of ours, in the way she acts toward me, doesn’t respect me as a man.”
Welcome to seeing The Matrix around you. You’re going to notice a lot of stuff like this where you’re like “wow, how did I not notice this before? It’s so obvious now!!” I see a lot of stuff in people’s personalities/actions that my normal non-gamer friends are completely oblivious to, and it’s like a flashing neon sign to me. It can give you a minor feeling of omnipotence at times, which feels pretty good…like when you know you have the nuts in poker and that the other guy has no idea he can’t possibly have the hand he’s trying to bluff lol
“But almost every damned time I make a successful joke or get the attention of everyone in a positive way, frenemy is sure to talk shit. Like, without fail.”
Okay so here’s an unfortunate reality that trying to learn game will shove in your face: The people around you (even your BEST friends and family) don’t necessarily want you to become better (or more accurately they don’t want you to “change”). There are a few reasons for it and they’re not necessarily malicious, they’re just like, human nature basically:
1) “Crabs in a bucket” syndrome, where if you have a bunch of crabs in a bucket and one starts crawling out, the others will pull him back down so they’re all stuck there together. This is like when one guy in a group of burnout pot-head buddies cuts out the pot so he can go to law school, and his buddies are all “you’ve changed man, why are you selling out like this, you used to be cool”.
Part of the reason people do this is that you’re fucking with their life (ie – someone they relied/counted on to play a certain role in their life is leaving that role and they feel a lack of control because of it which is scary), part of it is jealousy (ie – how come HE gets to succeed, he’s supposed to be our group loser, or he’s supposed to be like me and I’m not going to succeed so it’s not fair that he gets to succeed and I don’t and since I’m not going to put in the effort to come up to his level, I need to bring him back down to my level), part of it is that you working on yourself and getting success forces them to look at their own lack of success (ie – two fat friends, one works out constantly and gets in shape and the other one actively resents them for it because seeing them working out is a reminder that they don’t have the motivation/discipline to work out and change themselves too, so the in-shape guy’s success rubs the fat guy’s failure in their face), and part of it is that people don’t like having to re-label something (ie – you’re the shy quiet nerdy one, that they can count on to be shy quiet and nerdy…then you start being out-going loud and dressing cool. Well we can’t have THAT, or I’ll have to re-evaluate who you are as a person and re-label you, and I’ve already handled labelling you 10 years ago when we met and I’m used to that label, I don’t want to have to look at you different, I have other shit to do and that takes mental effort…”this isn’t YOU man, what are you doing? that’s not YOU dude, why are you being weird? Why are you wearing that? That’s not YOU.”).
You may have noticed a running theme here…those reasons are all selfish as FUCK, and don’t involve having your best interests (the betterment of your life in general) at heart. Along the way you’ll actually learn who your legit REAL friends are, because those are the friends who are going to be going “awesome work buddy, glad you’re coming out of your shell now!” and “that new outfit looks great, you’ll lookin’ stylin’ these days!” and “hey man I’m passing by the gym, do you need a ride?” etc.
The sad part is that often you’ll find that your legit friends are a lot fewer than you thought…often it’ll only be like 1-5 people in your social circle that really support you as you work on yourself. You’ll run into a lot of situations where you’re like “wow, I really thought this person was my friend but they’re trying to keep me down… ” And, even more sad, you may have to cut some of these people out of your life, either for a while (till you’ve solidified your new Identity enough that they finally accept it), or forever if they’re really detrimental to your mental state…or at least keep them at arm’s length and avoid hanging out with them unless you have to.
The good news is that down the road you won’t regret cutting any of them out of your life because you’ll be fully aware of how poisonous they really were and you’ll feel more bad for them than for you, because you’ll think “man, I really wish this person had been more supportive instead of being such a negative person, I really valued their friendship and they’re really missing out by not getting to be a part of my life.”
The other good news is that ultimately “the strongest frame wins”. If you take on a new Identity, and you solidify that identity over time with all your reference experiences, and you really become that new Identity and all your behaviors, thoughts, actions, etc. align with it congruently, for a long enough period of time, a lot of those people who had trouble with you changing will come to accept the “new” you and end up back in your life but this time accepting you for who you’ve become instead of trying to get you to stay in the label they had you in. It’s like your reality wins over theirs so they just cave and accept it, which is something common in pickup in general.
“And then, I notice that the stuff she’s saying sort of mirrors the one-off critiques I got the other night”
The rejection of your changing can manifest itself in pretty cruel ways depending on the type of person you’re dealing with. Some people will just be like “dude, that’s not you man, are you okay? Why are you acting like this now? You’ve changed man…” and some will be hostile dickheads like this chick.
“it always boils down to something like ‘you’re gay’ ‘your outfit sucks,’”
As you’ve noticed, this is the same type of shit you were getting from the girls in your last Field Report. Girls aren’t super clever, especially when they think the guy’s frame is incongruent/weak. Like you wouldn’t bother taking a huge wind-up swing to punch through a thin piece of balsa wood because you’d figure you can just break it with a couple fingers squeezing it.
When I get shit-tested these days, I get shit-tested HARD…girls try to bring out their A-Game with testing me because they know stuff like “your outfit is gay” won’t phase me at all. They know if they’re going to test me, they need to do it with something brutal to have a shot at shaking my frame. Their shit still usually isn’t funny though lol
And again, they’re just doing this because you’re acting different than how they think you “should” act, and they sense they can get away with it, like a cheetah tackling the injured gazelle of the group, it’s almost instinct to pounce on a weakness.
Tyler puts it good in a video where he says that “the field” will take your sticking points, incongruencies, and any weak parts of your game and just shove them right in your face, harshly and brutally, until you fix those things. So in a way it’s a good thing, because when you approach 10 girls and they all go “eww don’t touch me you creep”, you learn “okay there’s a problem with how I’m doing my kino, time to zoom-in on my kino and figure out where I’m going wrong here”.
The thing about their one-off insults is that they’re not real consistent or specific, so you can ignore them. If you got 20 insults and 15 of them were that your shirt is ugly, then your shirt is probably ugly lol But if you get 20 insults and they’re all over the map and vague like “you’re gay” “your haircut’s stupid” “you’re weird”, it’s just the girls shooting a shot-gun blast spread of insults hoping SOMETHING gets through a crack and hits you and makes you react. So you can just laugh that shit off because when you see them doing it, in your head it should translate to them saying to you “I have NO ammo at all, I’m just desperately flinging shit at you and crossing my fingers here”.
“and then something along the lines of being a snob — which flat-out isn’t true”
Ya, see? It’s like she can’t get a reaction out of you so now she’s even just making shit UP hoping you’ll fall into her frame, and defend yourself (against shit you know isn’t even TRUE) and qualify yourself to her, which is beta’ing yourself to her, and then she can feel like she “won” the little frame battle exchange she instigated because she’s insecure and needed to re-enforce to herself that she’s better than you. It’s really silly and petty lol
So she might try like “you’re stupid” and you go “lol whatever” and she goes “grrr…you’re ugly!!” and you go “lol whatever” and she goes “grrr…you have a tiny dick!” and it’s not even something she could KNOW, and you happen to be sensitive/insecure about your wang so you go “what?? no I don’t!” and she goes “aha!! GOTCHA!!” and turns to the girls beside her and goes “right girls? this guy totally has a tiny dick! What a loser, I bet it’s the size of my pinky lol!!” and now she’s poking a sore-spot issue with you AND rallying up the people around her to pile on, and she’ll do it until you finally cave to the social pressure and she breaks your frame.
Pretty fucked up hey? lol But again, she’s not always necessarily an evil horrible bitch even though it’s bullying behavior…she’s just testing you and trying to keep her world in the order it’s supposed to be in. And in fact, a lot of times these girls will be the sweetest girls in the world to you once they’re 100% sure that you’re congruent to who you’re portraying yourself as. It’s hard not to want to muff-punch her though, I know, lol
Anyway, so that’s the general psychology behind this. The girls from your last Field Report did it too, where they test you for a sore spot and then try to gang up on you to put social pressure on you to cave. AMOGs will sometimes do this kind of thing too. It can be frustrating, especially when they actually DO strike a nerve, and you’ll react a bunch of times where as soon as you react you’ll go “ah shit I shouldn’t have done that”.
But that’s okay, because it’s a learning process. Over time you’ll learn that a lot of the things they say really AREN’T things that SHOULD affect you. Like a girl making fun of your haircut, who the fuck cares, why would that affect your state or self-worth in any way, who the fuck is SHE? lol At the same time, you’ll also learn what things really DO affect you and where your boundaries are. I’ll let a girl SLAP me, I don’t give a fuck at all…I say a lot of offensive stuff and sometimes girls will react by slapping me because it was over the top and I’ll just grin and keep going like it was nothing. That’s not a boundary that really bothers me. But then on the flip side, a girl who’s being a dick to one of my Nice Guy friends will get a full verbal-bitch-slap reaming-out from me until she feels like a piece of shit and like I’m the meanest person in the world. I learned where my boundaries are, from being tested a bunch over the years.
I like this Joe Rogan clip as an example of boundaries. He really isn’t affected by this girl, because he knows she’s irrellevant in the long-run, she doesn’t affect his self-worth at all, but at the same time he’s basically unapologetically saying “you are crossing my boundaries and if you keep it up I’m going to keep laying into you”:
The crowd goes wild over the stuff he’s saying, and a lot of that is because they know they’re watching a man express himself from the core and not holding back. He’s not being PC, he’s not trying to appease anyone, he’s not holding back his opinion, he’s not embarrassed by his boundaries, he’s being completely honest and congruent and expressing himself. There’s NOTHING that chick can say that will phase him or get through any cracks, his Identity is rock solid even if it’s abrasive to the Politically Correct crowd.
At 2:20-ish he threatens her with his dick and says “I’m a short guy but I’ve got a big dick” lol So now picture way back to your earlier post where you said the dance floor uggo sneered at you for trying to dance with her, or think back to the girl who made fun of your height…how would Joe Rogan have handled that? Well he might not have handled it in the best way and he might not handle it in a way that you’ll end up handling it when you get your Identity down (being a cool chill Owen Wilson type guy is as much of an Identity as being a loud asshole), but he sure as shit would have a way to handle it that’s congruent, you know?
That’s part of why I asked you earlier if you had any boundaries, or knew what they were, or when you last made other people aware of your boundaries when they crossed them or if you just bottled it up inside, etc. At this stage you probably don’t know what your boundaries are yet. Like ya, the calling you gay or a snob is annoying, but it doesn’t REALLY piss you off…so you’ll probably be able to handle that stuff and laugh it off and down the road it’ll be completely insignificant to you. Whereas if a girl called you fat, since you’re working on your weight, that might actually sting you right now. These are things you’ll learn about yourself as you go.
“She teases all the guys in the group, but from her to me it’s way different.”
I actually think you could fuck her lol
“I attempt to use the whole ‘two second alpha stare’ on her remarks….which PISSES her off even more!”
lol you did good, regardless of her reaction. Her getting pissed off is because she’s frustrated that nothing is getting to you. Probably in the past before you found the Manosphere you’d qualify/react more often to this shit she’s throwing at you, but now you’re not anymore, so it’s that frustration of “keep being who you’re SUPPOSED to be, grrr, why isn’t this working anymore??” And because you’re not reacting and you’re staying cool, she just starts looking more and more irrational and petty and she can sense that, so she has to keep trying to up the ante to get you to react…thus:
“Eventually, she actively starts trying to get the other girls around her in on the shit talking.”
Maybe SHE can’t pressure you into reacting, but maybe the combined social pressure of her and the 3 girls you’re talking to can get you to cave. I actually use this tactic on AMOGs lol, if I’m worried the guy’s going to hit me I’ll use the girls in the group and/or the other guys and/or passers-by and try to turn the group against him to get him to feel the social pressure and force him to calm down out of fear of everyone judging him as irrational and angry.
“At this point, I kinda break and start reacting way more.”
lol it’s all good. This chick is pro, she knows exactly what she’s doing and she’s probably been doing it a lot longer to everyone in her life than some silly 18yo at the bar who’s still learning the ropes of how to use the power she has over men. You stepped into the ring with Tyson and didn’t come out completely mangled, that’s pretty decent all things considered. It’ll get easier over time, and you’ll get more competent at it and eventually you’ll be 10 steps ahead of her and know what she’s thinking better than she does.
“Not in an angry way, but you know…like…in that way where I’m somehow justifying myself.”
Right, this is what we call “qualifying yourself”. It feels stupid, right? Like you’re DOING it, but you know you SHOULDN’T be doing it, but you can’t help it because you just need to do it like scratching an itch. Down the road you’ll start using this on girls and getting them to qualify themselves to you and they’ll react the same way you did, where they just NEED to qualify and feel like they have to justify themselves. It’s pretty powerful stuff when you use it consciously. The old-school PUA examples are (once you pass the hook point and you know you have some kind of value to the girl) the classic “Can you cook? I can’t date a girl who can’t cook.” or “Are you adventurous?” etc. where when she qualifies herself to you, you reward her, which sets up a frame where she wants more rewards so she keeps qualifying herself, creating a loop where she keeps investing more in the interaction and chasing your validation.
“I’m starting to see that these skills apply to most every area of life. So much of how you’re treated seems to boil down to how people perceive your SMV to be.”
Yup. Welcome to the Matrix. If two people were applying for a job and one guy was a shy nervous guy who spent all his time studying and he had amazing qualifications but was socially awkward, and the other guy applying had half or even no qualifications, but was extremely charistmatic and had an obviously high SMV and could build a connection with people quickly and get the interviewer talking about how much they both love golf etc., my money would be on the 2nd guy getting the job. It’s kind of a mind-fuck to realize how much societal conditioning brainwashed us all to believe that working hard will result in the universe rewarding us fairly…when the reality is a lot of people who have good jobs, financial success, great opportunities, etc. really just got those things by knowing the right people and being “liked”.
“When we get there my plan is to just hang out with the work group for like half an hour to hour before peeling off to hit on EVERY hot girl in the club.”
lol excellent plan. A booth is fun if you’re just fucking around with your boys and don’t care about getting laid, but the reality is that most bar/club booths are really awkward logistically for talking to girls. Your friends won’t care because they can’t approach girls anyway so they’re happy drinking in the booth, but you have to be like “I have to go to the bathroom” and then go do some approaches. Most of my friends know that I’ll occasionally vanish here and there through the night instead of holding their hands and cuddling around the bar all night.
The expensive VIP booths are often even worse…they’re a good place to bring girls back to, and you’re socially proofed if everyone can see you in your important rich-people booth…but unless you’re in a Vegas style club where promoters bring golddiggers over to your table, you’re segregated from the general population in the club behind a velvet rope or up on a stage etc. and you don’t get to interact with them unless you leave the very expensive VIP booth you paid for lol
“But, I managed to stick to the plan — somewhat — and make two approaches.”
Good on ya. It’s all reference experiences that add up over time.
“Now she turns toward me ‘wow that was really nice of you.’”
Shit, not bad for winging it. You basically DHV’ed a bit and you probably could’ve taken this somewhere…till the big guy showed up lol Nothing you can do about that right now. Hell, I don’t even bother with those sets these days, where the guy is clearly over-protective…it’s just not worth the hassle, even if I can tool him he might just end up punching me out because for all I know she’s his girlfriend of 10 years lol
“I was feeling kinda shitty over the last set and pretty much made the approach a cheesy pickup line.”
lol one of the ways Tyler recommends getting into state is to purposely do shit like approach as a cheesy pickup line guy, or to purposely approach like a total AFC asking interview questions, or purposely approach trying to get shot down or get her to slap you, or approaching using a made up foreign language, etc. Basically doing stuff that you KNOW probably won’t work and is retarded, but is funny to you and makes you laugh at how dumb what you’re trying is. It helps get you outside of your head and away from outcome dependance and dying for approval because you’re shooting yourself in the foot on purpose from the start. Once you get back into state, your sets usually go a lot better because your sub-communications are fun instead of needy.
“I think really, I just need to nail down this ‘irrational self-confidence at all times’ thing.”
Like I say, it helps to have the reference experiences for it so it’ll come with time.
But in the meantime, try some Affirmations:
Saying Affirmations to yourself feels pretty cheesy if you’ve never done it, and while I don’t really do them now (because my brain is basically telling me how awesome I am 24/7 lol), I found they helped a lot when I was starting out. I combined a few of them into one long one and I’d recite it while showering, while doing my hair etc., into a mirror before leaving my apartment for the bar, etc.
Some people respond well to them, some people don’t, try doing some Affirmations daily for a couple weeks and see what it does for your mood. I thought they were completely retarded at first, but I’m always up for at least giving new stuff a fair try, and it turned out they helped get me jump-started on building that irrational self-confidence thing.
Man, every time I read one of your posts, I just want to go back out and do it all over again. Fills me with hope. Really appreciate the effort. I’ll try to work on this stuff, man.
lol glad to help. Hope some other people reading get some use out of it too.
Just wanted to post this quick ’cause I linked it elsewhere and just realized it’s a great example of a more chill Identity that isn’t crazy-in-your-face like Joe Rogan:
So compare Cajun’s vibe here to Joe Rogan, specifically at 2:50 (tho the whole clip is a good explanation of the Identity stuff you’re working on). If a girl sneered at Cajun on the dance floor or told him she thought guys would be taller in the future, how would Cajun’s Identity cause him to handle it? Joe Rogan’s Identity would cause him to bitch her out and call her a stupid cunt. Cajun’s Identity would be more of a smooth persistent “oh, that’s cute, you’re trying to get rid of me…but it’s not going to work, I’m too charming, you might as well just accept that we’re going to hook up. ”
So your Identity down the road as you learn more about yourself 1) might be anywhere in the spectrum from smooth guy to in-your-face asshole, and 2) might be an Identity you COMPLETELY can’t even tell is really under the surface in you right now and you could be surprised by what your Identity turns out to be when you finally melt away all the social conditioning and shit that holds it back.
When I got into game I was super shy and quiet and anti-social…and now I’m the complete opposite of that. But I realized looking at photos/videos of myself when I was a little kid (like under 10 years old) that I was actually exactly like I am now, out-going and funny and talkative…it’s just that in elementary/high-school/college I learned to stuff that all down and hide it because of social conditioning that told me to be a Nice Guy and because I had bad acne and was chubby and Disney told me only the good looking prince gets the girl etc. and I chained my personality up like a lot of people do. The current me is actually just a return to who I used to be.
Tyler describes it as “At some point when you were growing up you chose an Identity that wouldn’t even make people LIKE you, but that would just make people not DIS-like you.” A big part of game is just unwiring all that bullshit.
And in fact a big part of why alcohol is such a popular substance in society, and I mean, it’s POISON, it doesn’t make SENSE that we would all be willingly poisoning ourselves all the time…why do we do it? Because it allows us to take off those social conditioning chains for a few hours and really express ourselves and our Identities. So the innocent girl ends up dancing up on the bar. The Nice Guy ends up picking fights because he’s sexually frustrated. The shy quiet guy becomes loud and outgoing and confident. The guy in his unsatisfying marriage that he TELLS everyone is “just great!” sleeps with a flirty waitress.
When do we drink? When we instinctively know that social conditioning will hold us back from our goals. So a shy guy and innocent girl go on a date. They both WANT to fuck, but society has conditioned him to be a gentleman who pretends not to want sex and its conditioned her to be a Good Girl who doesn’t put out like those slutty Bad Girls.
So they bring a bottle of wine to share, of course. A few drinks in, the shy guy’s confident horny side is unlocked and the innocent girl’s flirty horny side is unlocked, and they make sweet love and then when they wake up cuddling in bed together they go “wow I can’t believe we did that, we must’ve been SO drunk” and return to their social conditioning.
Crazy, hey? lol
Had a pretty good night last night! Opened two girls before I just opened and engaged this group for a pretty long time. Got a few numbers, but I feel like they’re more ‘friends’ numbers. And I feel like I could have gotten more, but I was too much of a pussy. I also started to get nervous after several minutes of solid interaction, which is funny. In retrospect it’s funny at least. So, personal standpoint, I took the advice I got on here and paid close attention to everything about myself. I tried doggedly to, whenever standing in a group, to maintain the open contrapposto alpha pose. I was surprised at how often I just kept wanting to fall out of it. Whenever I was sitting, I also tried my hardest to lean back, but it’s so hard to hear that I found myself leaning in more than I’d like just to hear what was going on. I also noticed that I lose state pretty quickly. I don’t know what it is about my approach, but I really tried damned hard to just follow the identity building advice. What resulted was a ton of shit-talking from the women. The guys I actually seemed to get along great with, though.
Line check (approaches HB 8 at bar, leans on counter putting profile to woman):
Me: Hey…you see that weird fight outside?
Her: ….what? There was a fight outside?
Me: It was this little midget lady and her tall boyfriend….you didn’t see it?
Her: ….no (seeming disinterested)
Me: Oh….well, I knew the boyfriend would win out, but she put up a fight.
Her: Wow…you must be psychic (flat)
Me: (not going well, may as well just say the dumbest shit I can think of and get the fuck outta here; straightens posture) Actually….I’m from the future.
Her: (laughter)….ohhhh really?
Me: (inner surprise; I can’t think of anything cool to say so I shrug my shoulders like it ain’t no thang)
Her: Well I thought that they’d be taller in the future?
Me: I’m not short, I’m just really far away from you.
Her: Uh-huh, hoooookay….
(fast forward, I said I was waiting for my friends, we eventually moved over to another table where the rest of her group joined us — two guys and another girl. The other girl is a 5-6, made up out of her mind. I ignore them for a minute or two to talk to the guys. When I switch back to the girls, I just notice this intense spike of ‘talk shit.’ e.g.,)
Her: (blah blah blah)….I really like that shit.
Me: (Trying for misheard innuendo) …you really like dick?
Her Friend: (Gut check mode) Uhhhhhhhhhh noooo….and if there were a dick around, I’m sure you’d be all on that shit anyway.
Me: (Can’t think of anything cool to say, so I just give her a raised eyebrow and a smirk)
Her: ……you know, I could see that.
Me: (Takes a risk) you liking dick?
Her: No, you being gay.
Me: Does gay me wear sunglasses?
Her friend: No, he just has sex with a lot of men. (they both laugh…feel like I’m crashing and burning)
Male friend: That’s not really such a bad thing. Gay men dress really well.
Her: (takes a look at my clothes, makes an ‘they’re okay/standard’ gesture with her hand, then laughs and shakes her head) Yeah, then I guess he’s not gay.
Me: (figure I’ve totally just blown this exchange, so I just shrug and try to power through) ….am I getting some fucking sunglasses or what?
(Gets solid laughter)
Me (just generally addressing the group): So, is it scrunchie or ‘scoonchie,’ for the company?
Her friend: What, what do you mean?
Me: I just know I’ve seen labels with the hair tie with this weird ‘u’ with two dots over it.
Her: Where would you have even seen that?
(Her and her friend proceed to lose their shit over this — I don’t really get it, but I figure I’ve made a huge tactical error here)
Her friend: You’re so dumb! (to be fair, said in a playful way) It’s scrunchie!
Me: Ooooooh….so that weird ‘u’ means nothing then?
Her: Nope…you’re wrong on this one.
I gotta say…I mean, the way they say it and the way it feels, the teasing just doesn’t come off as overtly flirty to me. It just seems like they’re ripping on me. Probably have to recheck my body language and tone. Some other highlights of the night — pretty sure I got AMOG’ed a few times and had no comebacks. Here’s an example that at least felt like an amog:
Guy: (after a group laugh over something I said) Man….can we just like, we should just like make a cartoon out of you.
Me: I dunno man, I’m pretty sure my lats are too huge to be drawn (stupid line, they can’t all be winners I guess….)
Guy: No I’m serious, you could have your own little animated series or something.
So…this sort of lets me know I’m being more of an entertainer, and I have no idea how to work out of that zone. I mean, all in all a far better night than most I’ve had at least.
They’re all picking up on incongruency and reacting to it. This’ll happen for a while lol it’s a good thing, it means you’re trying new shit out and it just doesn’t fit proper. A night of getting shit thrown at you and learning is better than a mundane night going through the same ol’ motions playing to “not lose” instead of playing to “win”.
On my way out to the bar but I’ll write some more in-depth shit here tomorrow for ya.
Ha. Look forward to the read.
Sorry, had a busy weekend (the good kind lol). I’mma do a big breakdown here for ya ’cause quite frankly I think you’re capable of getting your shit handled compared to a lot of cases…you’re new so it’s still going to be a lot of work, but you have a good attitude about approaching all this and your problems are really a bunch of small TOTALLY handle-able sticking points and a few big ones that overlap eachother so once you start knocking them out, they’ll start snowballing over eachother like knocking down a bunch of dominos.
One of the reasons I became fascinated with pickup was because of how interconnected most of it is…you can almost distill pickup down into just a few over-arching concepts, all the external stuff (routines, body langauge, voice tonality, etc.) is just zooming in on the strands that make up those concepts like wool on a sweater. Man I’m full of analogies today.
Alright so let’s get to it:
“Got a few numbers, but I feel like they’re more ‘friends’ numbers.”
They are. You’ll know when you have a number where the girl sees you as fuckable instead of a friend. But that’s okay, this is just a symptom of one of the large concepts you’ll need to work on, which we currently call “communicating as a man to a woman”, vs communicating as “a friend to a friend” or, as a lot of PUA newbies and a lot of the old-school routines did, as “a woman to a woman” lol
The underlying concept is that when you’re talking to her, she should basically be getting the vibe that if she hangs around you, you are going to eventually fuck her. Todd from RSD puts it the best way (the “imminent danger” bit goes way back in the PUA community lol):
(30 second clip)
Right now the girls don’t see you as having a penis, basically. It’s not a big deal, EVERYONE runs into this when they start learning about pickup. Hell, even I still have sets here and there where I get the number and I’m like “fuck, there isn’t even any point in txting this one, this was all totally friend to friend” lol I still try to turn it around for practice, but it’s usually a REALLY huge/awkward leap to switch modes because you’re playing the “surprise, I have a penis!” game at that point and doesn’t pan out much and I don’t have the patience to play it suuuuper slow and really slowly turn it around which can actually work…my mentality is more “ah, fuck, that was gay of me, okay next chick remember YaReally: Man to woman, none of this friend to friend shit” and move on.
I’ll talk more about the “man to woman” communciation down below.
“And I feel like I could have gotten more”
You could have.
“but I was too much of a pussy.”
You were. lol Again don’t beat yourself up about it. Learning pickup is basically like running after someone who’s riding a bicycle. At first you’re only gonna get a block and then lose it. Then you’ll get 2 or 3 blocks and lose it. Then you’ll actually touch the bicycle for a split second and lose it. Then you’ll manage to keep pace with the bicycle for a few strides and lose it. Down the road you’ll be able to keep up with the person on the bicycle, but this is how the learning process feels and you are in for YEARS of it lol At first it’ll be just getting solid phone numbers, then it’ll be getting those girls to actually want to fuck you, then it’ll be actually getting laid, then it’ll be getting hotter girls, then it’ll be getting threesomes, etc. etc.
This is why we stress trying to look at the game as fun, and approaching as fun and hilarious and retarded, because if you take it too seriously it’s going to stress you out like crazy since there’s no end to the learning process.
“I also started to get nervous after several minutes of solid interaction, which is funny. In retrospect it’s funny at least.”
This is why I say you have a good attitude for handling this. You KNOW how absurd it is to be getting nervous over it lol We all have little incidents like this. I remember being out of the game for a bit (settled with a girl for a few months and stopped going out) and when I got back out there I’d like, know exactly what I should’ve said…5 min after the moment had passed. And I’d laugh like “c’mon brain, work faster like you used to” because it was funny to me to drop the ball like that so much for a while. I remember going into a strip club and ordering a drink and as I passed my money to the bartender my hand was literally uncontrollably shaking with nerves, it had been a while since I had been around a bunch of hot naked chicks, and I grabbed my hand and laughed at myself like “wtf YaReally?? never seen a naked girl before?? lol”
“I took the advice I got on here and paid close attention to everything about myself.”
Good stuff. Handle one thing at a time. There’s so many different areas to the game that it can be overwhelming if not impossible to tackle them all at once. What a lot of us did was focus on one or two main things at a time. Like “okay tonight, I’m going to stay in every set until they tell me to fuck off, no matter how awkward it gets, either they flat out literally tell me to go away or they leave.” Or “okay this month I’m going to work on my kino, so I’m going to find an excuse to hug the girl in the first minute of the interaction in every set, even if it feels awkard and weird at first.”
It’s a long-term game, so right now you’re working on your general alpha vibe (body language, eye contact, voice tonality, loudness, taking up space, etc.), which is great, so don’t be annoyed with yourself if you don’t get around to fixing the dancing monkey stuff till you get that stuff handled. Baby steps.
“I was surprised at how often I just kept wanting to fall out of it.”
You’re unwiring a LOT of years of bad habits. We always want to return to what we’re used to even when we know it’s bad for us (this is why pessimistic angsty people tend to stay that way, even when good things happen to them they instantly find the black lining to it). Fortunately it works the other way around too…if you build good habits/outlooks, and do them for long enough, those will be what you return to.
It supposedly takes 21 days of doing something to literally build new neural pathway whatevers in your brain that make that thing no longer seem like a struggle to make yourself do. Google it for more info, but the important thing is to keep consciously focusing on “okay, how am I standing, oh shit, I’m standing like a wuss again, okay fix that, good, that’s better.”
The learning process for anything is:
1) Unconscious Incompetance (oblivious that you suck)
2) Conscious Incompetance (you suck, but you KNOW you suck (this is you with your body language right now)
3) Conscious Competance (I suck but I’m focusing on fixing it (this is what you’re transitioning into right now))
4) Unconscious Competance (I’m all fixed up and don’t even have to think about this shit anymore)
“Whenever I was sitting, I also tried my hardest to lean back, but it’s so hard to hear that I found myself leaning in more than I’d like just to hear what was going on.”
lol this is an annoying problem in bars especially. In quieter places like restaraunts or at someone’s house, it’s not a big deal. You’ll learn to lip-read a bit and a lot of bar situations involve just emotional communication (ie – the girl isn’t really saying anything important, she’s just trying to get across to you some emotion that she’s feeling and you can pick that up through her body-language, facial expression, etc.). Really though, if you’re just chilling with your social group and you can’t hear, go ahead and lean in, it won’t kill ya.
The main area to focus on not leaning in is when you’re standing and talking to a girl. Guys will lean in to hear what she has to say and it’s very supplicative looking/feeling…like the words of some random girl you met 5 seconds ago are the most important thing in the world to you, you don’t even know if she’s worth your time yet and you’re giving her all that value, you know? So the main time to be paying attention to whether you’re leaning in is in a legit approach.
It actually helps with the “man to a woman” communication thing, because instead of leaning in you can pull her in and say “I can’t hear you, what was that?” and have her talk closer to your face while you brush cheeks together or stare into her eyes intently etc., which starts building sexual tension (VS standing 2 feet away with your hands in your pocket nodding at her).
Here’s an AWESOME 80 min video by Gambler (I recommend watching the entire thing, there’s tons of good stuff in there for dealing with loud environments etc.) with like a 30 min section in the middle demonstrating this “man to a woman” communication thing.
Everyone who’s working on turning their vibe more sexual should watch this video, I’m not even really a big Gambler fan but this is solid as fuck:
Vital section on “man to a woman” stuff starts at 26 minutes in:
At 30:20 he stars escalating the sexual tension lol same with 33:45. But watch this whole segment with the girl because his actual explanations of what’s going on and why it works is excellent.
Watch how the tension goes through the roof just from cutting into her space and staring her down with laser eyes and doing what we call “Triangular Gazing” (look from eye to eye and down to her lips and back up, it shows you’re thinking about her lips/kissing/etc. without being blatant) while she talks.
My fav summary of what he’s doing is: “The reason it’s sexual is there’s no way on EARTH you would do that with a male friend.”
Robbie Williams doing the same thing but as a Natural doing it to just fuck around instead of as a specific pickup tactic:
Robbie isn’t even touching her and she melts into a blubbering mess. You can see how this overlaps into that “imminent danger of being fucked” idea. It’s not because he’s a celebrity, you can do this to girls you’ve just met at the bar, try it lol Hell Tyler and Julien from RSD sometimes open literally without talking for the first few minutes, just getting in her space and staring her down.
For you, because you’re new, I wouldn’t do a lot of the blatant stuff with like, your social circle girls/friends…that’s why we stress going out and cold approaching randoms, ’cause you’ll probably weird chicks out for a while lol And that’s fine if they’re randoms at the bar you’ll never really hang out with again, but it can fuck up your social circle.
So for you, do all of this shit Gambler’s talking about with random cold approach girls…but with girls in your social circle, stick to focusing on body language and eye contact and learning to build a deep connection just looking into their eyes…making a “bond” with them, you know?
Down the road this skill will help you create what we call a “Bubble of Love” lol where when you’re talking to someone everything else in the world seems to just fade to black like there’s just a spotlight on the two of you and the other person feels like you two are the only people in the world. Guys like Bill Clinton, Steve Jobs, etc. are legendary for their “Reality Distortion Field” which is just this “Bubble of Love” concept except they apply it to everyone they interact with instead of just girls.
This is part of why people in real life trust me REALLY quickly. They’ll open up to me about super personal shit and I can find out pretty much anything I want to about people because I’m combining leading the conversation where I want it to go with this “Bubble of Love” where they feel super special and like we have this amazing deep connection and feel like we’ve known eachother for years even though we just met a few minutes ago. This is useful for bonding with guys and girls.
“I also noticed that I lose state pretty quickly.”
Right now your state is probably based on external results. So when you’re getting good feedback from girls, you feel great, but if you get bad feedback or if the girl just isn’t giving you much to work with in general, your state dies because it’s like “ah shit, I don’t think she likes me, so I can’t feel good. And my buddy’s girl over there clearly likes HIM, so fuck, I must be a loser (etc. etc. big negative state-destroying mental spiral)”.
Don’t stress this too much for now, honestly. It’s something you’ll work on down the road when you’re more Advanced and you’re getting a lot of success because overall it’s healthy to learn to base your state internally instead of externally, but as a guy who started out from scratch I know that chasing that external validation gets you to actually approach and make moves and work on your game so I say fuck it, don’t worry about fixing that for a couple years, it’s not something that’s going to hamper you at the start here aside from giving you frustrating nights now and then. Fix one or two things at a time, you know?
One thing that might help is to get in the mindset of “I can’t control whether a girl likes me, that’s out of my control, but I can control whether I approach her, or whether I escalate the situation, or whether I try to kiss her, or whether I go for her phone number…so as long as I’m taking action, then that’s pretty awesome, because that’s something I can control and feel good that I’m doing, even if the girl doesn’t like me or it doesn’t work out.”
But again I wouldn’t stress this one much, I’m only addressing it so it’s in the back of your head a couple years down the road.
“I don’t know what it is about my approach, but I really tried damned hard to just follow the identity building advice. What resulted was a ton of shit-talking from the women.”
This is actually a good thing. It means you’re trying to work on your identity, and what’s happening is that you’re working on it but not there yet, so girls and guys are picking up on “this guy is trying to come off like he’s Such and Such but there’s something off about it, he doesn’t seem to really BE Such and Such”. So what happens is they subconsciously try to test you to see if you’re actually this guy.
It’s like the puppy with a big bark. You KNOW the little puppy is just pretending to be big and scary but it’s not really a threat and so instinctively you want to go “rarr!!” and step toward it like you’re going to attack and it skitters back and hides behind someone’s leg while it keeps barking furiously at you. It’s just cute and funny and totally incongruent.
But then you run into a lion, and the thing isn’t even doing anything. It’s just slowly walking around surveying it’s surroundings…but you know to stay the fuck away from it, because you know if you test it it’ll bite your fucking head off lol That’s essentially what congruency is.
So for a while here, while you build your identity (this could take months or years, hell, my identity is pretty rock solid now but there are still aspects as I gain more life experience where I learn “okay this is how I feel about this topic” and solidify a little more), you’re going to get a ton of testing from people. This sucks but there’s no way around it lol It’s like learning to ride a bicycle, you’re gonna fall off and skin your knees a few times, that’s just how it goes, until your skills solidify.
But as your identity solidifies, you’ll get tested less and less. I very rarely get shit from people when I’m out because everything I say and do is congruent to who I am and what I think/believe, and I have that congruency because I’ve spent so much time interacting with so many different people in so many different situations and environments and different types of people, that I know myself extremely well…which comes back to what I said before about how people with strong identities have boundaries they don’t let people cross (doesn’t mean they get into a fight, they just don’t tolerate that kind of behavior and let people know or stop hanging out with those people). That all comes from experience putting yourself in different situations.
That’s also why people who go backpacking through Europe solo and such, tend to come back with a lot stronger an Identity…they were forced to learn to rely on themselves and handle different problems and situations and they were basically forced to forge their Identity to survive, especially in a place where they don’t speak the local language.
Society these days is built on making us all repress our feelings trying not to offend anyone else, and coddling us through growing up to try to keep us from harm or “feeling bad” and the end result is that we become “adults”, but we don’t become “men” because we never really HAD to. A lot of PUA is just forcing ourselves through that process…you can gain confidence and stuff through other means, like climibing a mountain or backpacking around or starting a small business or whatever, but pickup is a fun method to build it through because, well, it involves getting pussy. lol I’d rather chat some cute chicks up and get laid than climb a mountain.
(incidentally, from what I’ve seen it looks like the MGTOW are actually in alignment with PUAs in this area, in that MGTOWs are basically forcing themselves through the “grow into being a man” process they missed out on earlier in life, except that they’re purposely choosing a path that avoids male-female relationships…in a way, while I think it’s a bit of a waste to avoid learning to handle relationship stuff because I love women, I can respect their underlying idea of “focus on doing shit for you as a man, not to impress women”)
“The guys I actually seemed to get along great with, though.”
Guys tend to be more forgiving of incongruency and often are just oblivious to it because they aren’t as socialized as women who are playing crazy social dynamic games all the way back in elementary school and tend to have a much more finely toned radar for this stuff since for them it can mean the difference between finding a husband or being raped and tossed in an alley.
“Me: It was this little midget lady and her tall boyfriend….you didn’t see it?”
Honestly as a short guy I would avoid talking about height related topics at all unless she brings it up. Like I’m an older guy now (early 30s) and I’m often approaching girls I know are in the 18-early 20s age range where I know the age topic is going to be polarizing…even if it’s blatantly obvious that I’m way older than them, I don’t bring it up unless she brings it up and then I address it quick with a line and change the conversation to something more productive. Same goes with when I was younger and going cougar-hunting now and then, it’s clear that I’m way younger than them, but I know that logically talking about age is going to make them screen me out or feel self-conscious about their own age, so I just never talked about it.
Once you set the frame that you view the world through height, like it’s something that’s relevant to you, she’s going to view the world that way too because what you feel, she feels. Whereas if you seem basically oblivious to even the CONCEPT of height existing, she won’t give it much thought either (unless it’s really a big deal for her, which isn’t nearly as common as most people think, usually the guys getting screened for that shit are boring/lame and she’s actively looking for a reason to reject the guy and height is an easy one to go with because the guy can’t be like “Well I’ll grow 10 inches and MAKE you love me then!!!” lol).
One of my short buddies that does well with chicks doesn’t even really get the idea that a tall girl and short guy couple is strange. He’s not oblivious to it as a notion that exists in society, but he’s been with enough girls taller than him and flirts with tons of taller girls (since most of them are taller than him lol) that he has so many reference experiences of it not mattering that it’s not a part of his outlook. As a result he gets a lot less height shit-testing because girls pick up that it’s not something he’s insecure/nervous about or sees as any kind of detriment.
Same concept works with anything else, like acne, having a stain on your shirt, not having a job, etc.
Anyway, this is just something I wanted to mention because I know you’re a short dude and if this is one of your standard openers I’d change it up a bit to avoid the subject of height.
“Me: (not going well, may as well just say the dumbest shit I can think of and get the fuck outta here; straightens posture) Actually….I’m from the future.”
lol’ed. Good on you for sticking in there. A lot of guys eject early when they don’t get an obvious positive response and a lot of times those sets can be turned around with some solid game down the road. Even though this one didn’t really work out in that you’re probably not going to fuck the girls, you got a fuck-ton of experience handling social pressure and pushing through awkwardness. That’s stuff that’s going to help you down the road…Like Heartiste’s recent article on Naturals, where they seem oblivious to the idea that approaching a girl should be “scary”, they just have a lot of reference experience of pushing through awkwardness and not dying so their brain says “ehh there’s not really anything to worry about dude, go for it, you’re the man!”
“Her: Well I thought that they’d be taller in the future?”
There’s actually a lot of little places where you could turn this around. They’re definitely being bitches to you lol but it’s not necessarily that they’re bad people, it’s again that they can tell they can talk shit to you and fuck with your frame because it’s not super solid yet…even though you handled yourself pretty decently all things considered, like shrugging your shoulders instead of trying to qualify yourself, not apologizing for the stuff you say, etc.
A lot of guys will be like “oh you should say something like “Well you’re ugly in the present!” ohh burrn you totally got that bitch, bro!!!” but that’s a reactive low value response where you’re falling into her frame. By not being phased by it and staying calm, you’re actually displaying solid value. Down the road when you get tested a lot, you’ll have a bunch of routine comebacks for these kinds of things.
One of my short buddies is a monster with shit-tests…he’s really out-going and worked as a bartender for years, so he’s been the center of attention most of his life, so he’s gotten shit-tests from people his entire life and has heard EVERY short joke in the fucking book a million times. So when anyone tries to give him shit on his height he has a dozen different responses to whatever they say that are super witty, play to the crowd and tool the person, make them feel silly for trying to give him shit, etc. etc. and because he handles these shit-tests so smoothly and flawlessly from experience, the guys all want to befriend him (like “ohh wow lol you burned me good, shit lol” and “oh man you got my buddy good lol lemme buy you a shot that was awesome”) and the girls attraction for him spikes because he’s either called them out hardcore and made them feel silly and they need to qualify themselves to not look stupid, or he’s tooled the guy in their group that gave him shit and he’s suddenly higher value than those guys, so they’re attracted because he’s showing he can handle himself, even with the alphas in her group (who end up qualifying themselves to my buddy or buying him shots or whatever).
Thing is, no one shit-tests the quiet shy Nice Guy with no identity who stands in a corner trying to blend into the background while his buddies are approaching girls. He’s insignificant. When you start getting shit-tested, that means you’re popping up on people’s radar. So get used to it lol
I get shit-tested a LOT, especially because my Identity is the in-your-face asshole type with girls that talks about sexual topics right away etc. So girls test me right away to find out if I’m really like that or not, but I’ve got a lot of experience with all the types of shit-tests I’ll get so I just brush them off and my value goes up.
So what I’m saying is: This’ll fix itself in time, keep going out.
“I ignore them for a minute or two to talk to the guys.”
Good stuff. Solid move. This is part of why the guys liked you, you’re not a predator going after their girls, you’re just a cool guy who’s shooting the shit till his friends show up. This is also part of why the girls test you more, because they feel like there’s something incongruent/off about you, but the guys in their group don’t seem to care and they feel like they need to “expose” you, know what I mean? Like if you knew someone your friend was dating was shit, but no one else believed you, you’d be frustrated and be like “ahhh no one can tell but me!! Can’t they see it too??”
“Me: (Trying for misheard innuendo) …you really like dick?”
lol’ed. You basically said to them “okay girls, shit-test me HARD, let’s get this battle started! ” by doing something so blatantly offensive and impossible to ignore. Which is actually a GOOD thing when you can handle shit-tests, because you’ll basically piss them off, they’ll test you, you’ll pass the tests flawlessly, and they’ll become attracted because of how you passed the tests. Right now shit-tests are tricky for you so this could go either way 50/50 from here, but the important thing to understand is that you can 100% recover and build attraction from saying shit like this even though they react offended and pissed off lol
But really, good on you for doing it. Because you’re “knocking her off the fence”.
Here’s an hour-long video of Tyler explaning the idea in depth (important part starts at 4:35):
I actually do this kind of thing on purpose because I’d rather a girl shit-tests me so I can pass those tests and build attraction fast, than just think I’m a “nice guy” and not test me at all and we get stuck in that gay friend zone vibe lol
“Her Friend: (Gut check mode) Uhhhhhhhhhh noooo….and if there were a dick around, I’m sure you’d be all on that shit anyway.”
Here come the shit-tests lol The two girls will just gang up on you here and generally the guys will go quiet because they don’t want to rock the boat with the girls to defend some random guy they don’t even know.
From here you have three options:
1) get sucked into their frame, apologize for what you said, backtrack, defend yourself, explain yourself, try to logically convince them not to be mad at you, qualify yourself, etc. etc. You know by now I’m sure that this isn’t a good option lol
2) agree and amplify, use some cocky-funny, tool them with something smooth and witty, basically keep your wits about you, keep calm, remain completely unphased, and just laugh off what they say. If an 18yo girl at the bar says “I hate you”, it hurts. If your 5 year old neice says “I hate you” and pouts it’s cute and you go “lol awww” and are completely unphased by it. So this option is basically treating her like she’s your 5yo neice or little sister, like what she tried to burn you with was silly and she just amuses you trying to give you shit. This shows a lot of confidence and it passes the shit-tests and builds attraction (often causing more shit-tests until she finally decides “okay this guy is solid, I can’t get to him……so I LIKE him!”) lol
3) completely ignore it, like you did, shrugging or raising your eyebrow and smirking. This, like option 2, shows high value. It’s also a lot easier than option 2 because you don’t have to come up with something witty etc. so there’s less room for error. The only reason why I choose option 2 over option 3 is because option 3 doesn’t really let you express a strong personality…it nullifies the shit-test, but it’s like, in terms of advancing the pickup towards sex, it only advances it an inch, whereas a solid option 2 handling can advance it feet or miles lol because you’re demonstrating more personality and especially in an environment like a nightclub where you’re talking to a girl who spend 4 hours getting herself all dolled up and is full of herself cocky and feels like the princess of the club etc. etc. you can need that kind of value bitch-slap (lol) to stand out from all the other guys.
The other problem with option 3 is that it doesn’t STOP the shit-tests. A solid option 2 can stop the shit-tests cold and 180 the interaction instantly. But option 3 makes her go “hmm that one brushed right off him, okay I’ll try again then”. It’s like the difference in a fight between deflecting an attack and exchanging a blow. Just deflecting and standing there makes them go “okay I’ll swing again”, but exchanging a blow makes them go “hmm maybe I don’t want to do that anymore” lol
You’ll develop option 2 over time (you’ll fuck up a TON and say a LOT of shit that you’re like “wow that was terrible and I knew it as I was saying it but couldn’t stop it from coming out of my mouth lol”, like the “I’m from the future” where you’re pretty much like wtf was that??), but option 3 is solid right now so mix it up depending on your mood/state.
“Her: ……you know, I could see that.”
See, this is them ganging up and keeping taking swings because you “deflected”. Again it’s not a bad thing, you deflect enough shit and they’ll give up…it’s just that if you look at attraction as making her feel a wide range of emotions in a short amount of time, option 2 does that more than option 3. Again not a big deal, either way works, and both are 100000x better than option 1.
“Me: (Takes a risk) you liking dick?”
lol’ed. Frame control battle here. This is essentially you saying “Nope, I’m not gonna’ apologize for what I said before even though I know you want me to feel like I should. In fact I’m gonna rub your face in it some more because you’re shit-testing me lol Not a single fuck was given this day! ” which will cause them to shit-test you again and try to control the frame and make you feel bad.
“Her: No, you being gay.”
This isn’t even witty or clever on her part. It’s like going “noooo you’re stoooopid, you’re stoooopid” in an arguement. She just figures because you’re still incongruent in general, that you’ll eventually cave to her frame. This can go back and forth and fuck your state up bad and cave your frame and result in exploding in your face…
“Me: Does gay me wear sunglasses?
…but you actually do alright here and instead of getting into a logical debate you just basically shrug and redirect the subject into something silly which probably doesn’t come off super congruent yet (I’ll say stuff like “Look just because Bob (whatever her male friend who approves of me’s name is) and I were swordfighting in the bathroom earlier doesn’t make us gay……Now the blowjobs, THAT part was a little gay.” and they’ll all love me after).
So you’re really not doing as horrible as you probably felt in the moment here. It’s like you’re making a building and I can see you’ve GOT the right materials out and stuff, they’re not necessarily being arranged in the best way to make a really solid house, but you’re building something that could at least keep the rain out.
This is also making the guys like you, because you’re getting thoroughly shit-tested by these girls but you’re handling yourself okay. It’s why people like guys like Russell Brand or Joe Rogan, because just watching them handle shit-tests is awesome. It’s that thing of like “wow I would’ve shit my pants at that and this guy just shrugged it off, or turned it around and totally owned this girl lol awesome”. So they start to root for you.
The snowball effect of all this is that because the guys like you, that makes the girls who hated you, until the guys liked you, start to like you more because guys liking you is a sign of higher value. How’s that for confusing lol This snowball effect is why goading girls into shit-testing you can spike attraction fast…Mystery knew exactly what he was doing with his insane peacocking, he’d get shit-tested non-stop by everyone about that, but he had solid comebacks for everything and knew how to escalate out of it, so he’d win over the guys and the bitchy girls that gave him shit would turn around and start liking him because he was owning the group and his value was spiking up.
Ironically, if everyone is pleasant and friendly and no one gives Mystery shit when he goes into a group, he just comes off as a weird guy in a crazy outfit lol He’s almost relying on going so over the top that he knows everyone will have to shit-test him because he’s so in their face. These days PUAs don’t peacock as much (the RSD guys all look/dress like normal guys) but they instigate shit-tests through what they say/do instead.
This comes back to the option 2 thing…if no one shit-tests Mystery’s weird outfit, he doesn’t get to demonstrate his personality. It’s like being only a counter-boxer where if the guy attacks you first you can own him but if he doesn’t attack you can’t get a hit on him…you need to goad him into attacking you by sticking your jaw out or giving him an easy opening to try to get him to give you a chance to show your moves.
See how these concepts all overlap eachother lol
“Her friend: No, he just has sex with a lot of men. (they both laugh…feel like I’m crashing and burning)”
Still trying to shake your frame here, again this isn’t even funny, but now they’re teaming up on you like jackals.
“Male friend: That’s not really such a bad thing. Gay men dress really well.”
Boom! A life preserver thrown by the guy in the group to the guy treading water. This is him basically saying “lol c’mon lay off girls, this guys cool, I approve of him”. Your value actually goes up slightly from thing and usually at this point the girls will keep shit-testing but they’ll be a little less vicious about it…like they might not want to fuck you or anything and be actively attracted, but often their shit-testing will go from “extremely hostile” to just “neutral ball-busting” where you haven’t won them over, but they aren’t trying to constantly bitch-slap you with hostility.
“Her: (takes a look at my clothes, makes an ‘they’re okay/standard’ gesture with her hand, then laughs and shakes her head) Yeah, then I guess he’s not gay.”
Again this isn’t even funny lol But she’s in an environment where everything will treat her like anything stupid she says is genius and brilliant because she has tits so it goes to her head. Again this is a shit-test though, where you can display option 1, 2, or 3. You actually handle it with option 2:
“Me: (figure I’ve totally just blown this exchange, so I just shrug and try to power through) ….am I getting some fucking sunglasses or what?
(Gets solid laughter)”
You could’ve stopped at shrugging it off (option 3) but you demonstrate some personality with your “fucking sunglasses or what?” comment lol At this point you really could turn this 100% around with some solid game…like it’s not an optimal situation, but there’s the framework here to turn it around. You’d basically have to do it by passing a bunch more shit-tests flawlessly, winning the guys over, other stuff like social proof (imagine if right now a hot waitress came over and hugged you and said hi to you, the girls’ minds would explode), that’s why we have a ton of different tactics/strategies for this stuff…but you’ll handle this in time. Mystery Method was basically designed for this scenario (interacting and winning over a group of people you don’t know).
“Me (just generally addressing the group): So, is it scrunchie or ‘scoonchie,’ for the company?”
lol far as conversation topics go, if scrunchies is something you’ve actually wondered about, that’s cool, if not then in general go for topics you’re actually curious/interested about even if those topics aren’t things that girls are supposed to think are cool. The main reason for this is just that it helps with your congruency…like a nerd talking about Warcraft can actually work out because he’s enthusiastic and passionate about it. I bring up sexual topics because I think it’s fun conversation and hate talking about boring shit like work or the weather etc. lol This comes down to the idea of “self amusement”…saying/doing what makes YOU laugh or entertains you instead of what you think they’ll be interested in.
Not saying this was a bad move or anything, this is just a general tip for your conversations.
“Her: Where would you have even seen that?”
lol it’s just such a strange conversation topic to bring up. At the same time though, if you hold your frame and have the mindset of “who cares where I saw it answer the fucking question already jeezus, c’mon, focus Woman lol”
“(Her and her friend proceed to lose their shit over this — I don’t really get it, but I figure I’ve made a huge tactical error here)”
There’s some shit that triggers fucking crazy “lose their shit” reactions with girls. The “Best Friends Test” was HUGELY popular with PUAs back in the early pickup days (you basically say you can tell they’re best friends because they make the same facial expressions and before they say anything they look at eachother first…which they ALWAYS look at eachother right after you say that, so you then instantly bust on them with SEE you just did it again lol They lose their fucking MINDS at this). Calling them Powerpuff Girls (back when PPG was popular) and naming one of them as the Good Girl and the other as the Bad Girl usually got the same kind of reaction.
The funny part is I don’t think anyone ever really even looked into WHY they shit their pants over these things lol We just knew “this will make their brain explode” and would use it. Personally I think it’s just something they never in a million years expect a guy to understand let alone acknowledge or call them out on it so they freak out because you just dove way into chick-territory where no man is supposed to have breached lol
Anyway, my point here is who the fuck knows why that blew their mind. For all you know they both have giant scrunchie collections at home and were just discussing which scrunchie to wear for an hour before they came to the bar and you just stumbled on it blindly lol
“Her friend: You’re so dumb! (to be fair, said in a playful way) It’s scrunchie!”
They’re less hostile now, even if they don’t want to actually fuck you or don’t even really LIKE you.
“I mean, the way they say it and the way it feels, the teasing just doesn’t come off as overtly flirty to me. It just seems like they’re ripping on me. ”
They basically just “don’t hate” you as much as the start now lol so ya they ARE ripping on you instead of flirting, but considering the shit-show you walked into and what you’re trying to work on and everything, don’t beat yourself up over it. You did good sticking through it all. This has all been pretty rocky/shaky as an interaction, but it’s just the nature of the beast while you’re solidifying your Identity and becoming congruent. Things will go a lot smoother down the road when shit-tests don’t phase you and you come off more solid.
“Guy: (after a group laugh over something I said) Man….can we just like, we should just like make a cartoon out of you.”
lol this is a tricky one because it can actually be a legit compliment. It DOES mean that you’re more of an entertainer than a “legit threat of fucking the girls”…but if you joined the group with a super “I’m going to bang your women” vibe, the guys would’ve tried to get rid of you. It’s two ends of a spectrum, you know? The Mystery Method way of handling groups tended to start out being an entertainer, then once they’ve hooked the set or one of the girls, isolate her from the group and transition into being a sexual threat. The modern direct RSD way where you go super sexual direct right off the bat is great on solo girls or small all-girl sets, etc. but it’s not solid group dynamics game. The MM way would work really well for you in this scenario you’re in here, sitting at a bar/lounge table with some strangers in an enviro where you can talk, whereas RSD type stuff is better at like a crazy elbow-to-elbow loud dance club.
Generally with AMOGs, try to get into the mindset that everything is a compliment, even if it’s logically probably not…VS the opposite mindset where everything is an insult/AMOG-attempt, even if it’s logically probably not. It doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll “win” or get the girl or win over the group or whatever, but it’s a healthier mindset because a lot of times when people tease you but see that you laugh it off and they can’t shake you, they respect you for it and then legitimately warm up to you. That’s why Naturals give eachother a TON of shit…and a lot of beta computer nerd guys who don’t socialize much hang out with Naturals and the Naturals give them the usual ribbing they give eachother and the nerd guy is like “god those guys are such jerks” and his state goes to shit and he googles AMOG techniques etc. when really the Naturals were just joking around because they know none of them would get upset by being teased a bit so it’s actually unexpected to them that the nerd guy would be phased…make sense?
Male social dynamics/interaction is like a whole fucking separate topic in general lol Especially when there are girls around.
“Me: I dunno man, I’m pretty sure my lats are too huge to be drawn (stupid line, they can’t all be winners I guess….)”
lol you know it’s no good so I don’t have to say it. This is basically you saying “ah shit, I feel bad because of your comment so I’m going to qualify myself to try to save face by bragging about something”. It’s the equivalent of the rich guy trying to qualify himself by bragging about his Ferrari…it just comes off like he feels insecure. Add to that the dynamic that it’s a male to male interaction where you have that “who’s the alpha, who’s reacting to who” dynamic at play and it kills your value quick.
Not a big deal, like I say you know it wasn’t good and probably knew as soon as you said it. For something like that I’ll usually laugh and say like “lol I’m just drunk, this redbull has gone right to my head, ignore everything I say lol”…like I’m not taking it as an insult, and I’m not feeling insecure because I don’t mind self-depreciating a bit and I’m acting like a redbull is making me drunk so I’m basically just spouting nonsense and self-amusing which is like option 2 way up above where I’m just laughing off a shit-test and demonstrating some personality.
“Guy: No I’m serious, you could have your own little animated series or something.”
This says to me that he’s legitimately complimenting you, not trying to tool you. He may come OFF as having higher value to the girls from giving you his approval like that, but it doesn’t seem like it’s something he’s actively doing on purpose in a hostile way, like there isn’t an ill intention behind it. If he was trying to be a dick he’d probably have made fun of your lat drawing comment because it would be really easy to tool you from that, but he just kind of went “no no seriously”
Thing is that still means you’re being an entertainer to him, like you suspect…so it doesn’t mean you’re going to get the girls or anything, but again if you’re working a mixed set like that, being an entertainer till later in the night isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
And to hit up your posts below this:
“Although, at one point I did make a little face with a chuckle and was like ‘hoooo….cold,’ and her friend went out of her way to say she was just kidding. So….they seem to not -dislike- me.”
Ya, see, they might not want to fuck you, but you won them over enough to stop being so amazingly hostile. That’s something you should be pleased with in terms of your overall progress.
“Well, I’m like 30 pounds overweight now ”
Like I say, stick to the gym stuff, it’ll help you feel good internally when you like your body more, plus it means achieving a goal you’ve set which is a good confidence boost as a man and builds your character.
Notice though, that that whooooole interaction above wouldn’t have gone any different whether you had a 6-pack under your shirt or whether you had a big baggy winter jacket on hiding your body completely. All the stuff I explained and advice I gave on how you could turn things around, and the videos of Gambler and Robbie Williams staring those girls down, none of it has anything to do with “make sure you lose 2% more body fat before you try this”, you know? This is why a lot of guys who get into bodybuilding purely hoping it’ll get them girls, end up depressed and frustrated Forever Aloners because they don’t get that in an interaction like this, how they feel about themselves has more to do with building attraction than how they look.
As I mentioned before, it sounds like you’re working out for your own approval instead of for girl’s approval though, so I’m not real worried about you there.
“Plus, I’m a manlet, and half-black (although no one ever thinks I’m part black).”
lol it’s an old joke but if I was half-black I’d be using the “it’s my lower half lol” bit.
You should have plenty to read, think about, watch, etc. from this for now. If you get some free time, hit up YouTube for the Mystery Method series someone posted up. Mystery’s a little weird as a speaker and some of the routines in it are pretty hokey/try-hard/over-used now, but like 99% of it is still rock solid psychology for working groups.
But more importantly go out and get some more practice under your belt. Good luck!
True–overweight guys just aren’t fighting the same uphill battle in the marketplace that overweight women are. The caveat is that he has to be fat in a masculine way. Big belly, fine. The teddy-bear look actually works very well for a lot of men.
On the other hand…big FUPA or pear-shaped in that weirdly feminine way? Kind of hard to look at.
I think being fat in a ‘manly’ way only works when the guy is tall. Like, Vince Vaughn allowed himself to get pretty fat, but I doubt it really affected his attractiveness to women that much.
Me, on the other hand — I’m short, so…my high (but dropping steadily) BMI works against me hardcore I bet. I carry my fat almost exclusively in my stomach and in my face. So…it’s the dreaded skinny fat.
Basically, I’d say short men = fat women in SMV.
I feel bad saying this, but the last sentence is correct.
When I lived in Toronto-Occupied-Ontario and spent my summers in Denmark (both places with some of the world’s tallest men and most entitled women), when women would say “Well, girls don’t choose men by their looks”, I would respond “Um, HEIGHT !?!”. They would defensively say “That’s not true”, to which I would immediately reply “That’s about as convincing as me saying ‘Like no way! Like, guys date fat chicks.” Girls would either laugh or look at me like I had just raped their grandmother.
Yeah, and every time I hear about a short guy who makes it hardcore with women, it’s always some guy who literally has 10/10 facial aesthetics. Little need to diss game, though. CH has a post about its limits. Like, it just will not make up for everything.
Go out more. Meet more people.
I have a handful of super short friends (5’0″-5’3″). 2 of them get hotter women than most of the guys commenting here and one of those two is skinny/frail, Asian, with blatantly fucked up teeth. His bread ‘n butter is banging waitresses & beer tub girls.
Some of the other guys are better looking (the good facial features and in-shape body type, wearing suits all the time etc) but have less confidence than those two (the frail one peacocks heavily, the other wears skater clothes and has shaggy unkempt hair and basically looks like a bum lol).
Their confidence is thru the roof and the frail one studies/applies game.
They run their game a little differently from tall good-looking guys, a lot more behind the scenes shit and a heavier focus on using social circles to demonstrate value and create opportunities to isolate, but they’re guys you’d look at and go “no WAY that dude can get laid” until the hottie you were hitting on starts ignoring you to talk to them because they have better game and more charisma than you.
In conclusion like I said before: go out more, meet more people.
Biracial manlet checking in — still failing at this whole thing by the way. At least now I’m getting numb to it. Although, I had a particularly bad episode at the club a few nights ago. I started dancing with a girl, and she was somewhere between a 4 and a 6. She made a face, then expected me to notice she made a face. I was focused on other things besides her face at the time, so she informed me that when she made that face, it meant that she was ‘creeped out’ and didn’t desire my company.
Now, I know that we’re all supposed to remain nonreactive, but this broke the dam that holds back my primal anger. Sorry — we’re scaling new heights of betatude now. I just shrugged, stepped further into her space, snapped my fingers, and danced more. This woman lost her mind and literally -pushed- me away from her.
I blinked and held up my hands. Guess what happened? No less than 6 white knights arrived and told me how uncool I was being. Granted, I guess that was kind of a dick move — or hey, maybe certain people need to lighten the fuck up. So uh…yeah…..literally shoved away on the dancefloor. I’m starting to think that club dancefloors are -horrible- for me
You don’t have an identity yet, which is fine because you’re still learning and observing other guys and adapting bits and pieces here and there to figure out your identity.
The biggest thing about my short buddies who get laid is they have VERY clear-cut identities. They know exactly who they are and what behavior they do and don’t tolerate from people around them, and have developed extremely strong mental frames for how they view the world around them.
Basically you’re still wishy-washy as a man. That’ll fix itself over time. It could take years, but it comes down to how much you want to get it handled. You are entirely capable of surpassing your buddies, you just don’t really believe that yet. Again this is stuff that you’ll fix over time, gaining little reference experiences that slowly add up. This isn’t something you’ll fix in a year.
One of my close wings these days is a 6’4″ super good looking MMA Natural WITH solid game. It took me months to get out of his shadow and quit letting the logic of “there’s no way I can compete with him, he’s better looking than me” fuck with me and just trust Game and not subconsciously hold back. If I don’t do anything, he gets all the girls. But if I step up and fully execute and express myself thru my Game, I take the girls from him.
You can also change your strategy up. If I’m out with a bunch of tall good-looking alpha jock types, I won’t open around them, I’ll venture off on my own or just with one of them, and work my shit. By the time those guys come over, the girls have experienced my awesomeness and even if my buddies are better looking they have an uphill battle because I’ve already got the girls feeling various emotions. If the other guy just relies on his looks and has no game, he’s practically invisible to the girls.
My short buddies tend to work social circle game more than direct physical game. So they’re the leader of a group and inviting girls to parties or night out at other places, where they isolate the girl and escalate behind the scenes vs trying to be the make-out guy in the middle of the bar.
One of my short buddies dances and girls love it and come over to dance with him because he’s just doing his own thing (dancing for his own amusement vs trying to dance over to a group of girls). But if he doesn’t do anything, the song ends and she leaves. So as the song winds down he grabs her hand and says “let’s go get a drink” and drags her over to get water at the bar. Except he’s actually dragging her specifically out of view of her friends so he can work his verbal game and DHV a bunch and escalate etc with no interference and if its a club enviro he collects her # and txts her thru the night while they’re still at the club to keep her mind on him, and meets her again “for food” closer to 2am or sets up a Day 2 for during the week. If its a lounge/pub enviro, once he’s hooked her after isolating he’ll lock her arm in his and introduce her to his friends and he’ll go back to the girl’s group and hang with them and work the group to get their approval and go home with her later with everyone’s blessing.
The bad news is: you might not be running the type of game that really resonates with your personality/attributes/environment and that will take a while to figure out since you don’t have a strong identity yet.
The good news is the Game has plenty of nuances to it that you get to experiment with and the cost of playing the game is just going out for a few hours and having fun…so it’s a long journey but ultimately a fun one. Hang in there lol
Thanks a lot man. I’ll definitely try to build an identity for myself — that sort of makes sense. I mean, I have a lot of friends, but I’m not really -known- for anything. I mean, I know this is bad thinking, but I feel like…when I finally get the body I want, and the facial fat leaves my cheeks/neck, I’ll be able to run better game because I’ll just feel so much better about myself.
Scray, please explain to me why you give the advice of the person you are responding to any validity at all? Do you believe everything you see on the internet? With the benefit of anonymity anyone could claim and say anything. And when I read what you just read I think, “Douche of the decade”, not “person to be listened to”.
Because I know what I’m talking about, dipshit.
Why are you in a forum for men to discuss picking up women again? With all your vast experience picking up women?
Oh, right, you have a vagina so you figure your opinion is relevant because you are the center of the world.
Soon as you can offer the guy practical advice based on actual real-life experience that helps him get past his sticking points, feel free to contribute it. But you can’t. Because you are on the other side of the coin.
That’s exactly it. You’re not “the (something) guy of the group” (except for the short guy lol but that’s based on your physical features you can’t control, not your personality).
Maybe you’re the ballsy guy who’s an approach machine, maybe you’re the intense slow-talking guy, maybe you’re the energetic used-car salesman guy, maybe you’re the intellectual guy who talks about brainy shit, maybe you’re the sports buff who wouldn’t even talk to a chick if she didn’t root for your team, maybe you’re the cheesy romantic, maybe youre the loudmouth asshole, maybe you’re the dirty perv of the group, etc etc.
Right now your identity is more “what will make me accepted, or at least not DISLIKED by the people around me”. So you’re coming from a frame where you are whoever you think your friends, bar buddies, girls dancing nearby, etc would approve of.
Part of having a strong identity is being willing to be polarizing…ie – the world to you works a certain way and if other people have a problem with it oh well, that’s their problem, you’re not gonna change who you are because you know yourself.
When you have an identity, a lot of alpha behaviors are built into it. Like the guy who’s big into sports, he asks the girl “do you like Team?” (qualifying/screening) “I don’t really watch Sport…” “pffft we’ll never work out then” (push) “!! I mean but I could learn!!” (trying to regain his validation) “hmmm I guess I could give you a chance, but normally I’m not into the girly types. I like a girl who can go running and play sports with me” (qualifying/screening) “oh I love running!!” Etc etc
The brainy guy shares exciting shit he’s into and is bored by girls who can’t keep up with him. So again he screens and qualifies girls because of his identity.
The unstoppable player of the group gets “I don’t date short guys” and goes “oh I don’t want to DATE you… ” The asshole of the group gets “I don’t date short guys” and goes “that’s okay I don’t date ugly girls. But I figure after a couple of drinks both our standards will go down.” The super cocky guy goes “what makes you think I’m interested in you? You’re hot, but what have you got going for you besides tits?”
All these different identities are polarizing. Like I’m the fast-talking asshole perv of my group. So quiet shy girls won’t like me. But loud bitch-shieldy girls LOVE me because I get in their face. Either way, I make an impact good or bad on both of those girls compared to the generic average guy who has no identity. I am on their radar, I am impossible to ignore, here I am try to keep up, know what I mean?
You’ll form your identity over time and it’ll probably surprise you down the road when you settle into your groove that works for you. The thing is parts of it are already there, you’re really unlocking your identity from the social conditioning that’s told you “that’s not cool don’t do or say that don’t talk about take don’t do this make sure you always do that”. That’s why we go out so much…each experience you run into and all the different methods you try in the game, you find bits and pieces that really resonate with you. Maybe direct doesn’t feel congruent for you, maybe social circle events are where your personality really shines, maybe being an asshole is actually fun to you, maybe you love peacocking, etc. you have to experiment and go out.
The catch is guys will go “oh that’s not me” and avoid something without really trying it for a while, and then they just stay how they are. You really have to be like “okay this month I’m going to try being more direct” and “this month I’m going to try peacocking” etc
You’ll get the hang of it. You may be exactly like someone else in your group or you may be completely different from them, who knows? You’ll find that out in time.
This all makes sense to me. Thanks a lot man
As an exercise think of each of your friends who do well with women and think “what is their identity? What are their obvious values?” and think about people you know with a strong identity…how would each of them react to a girl sneering at them?
Mystery has a lot of haters and looks ridiculous…BUT he had a very strong identity. To a sneer he’d just drop a “you can dress her up but you can’t take her anywhere” to her friend in the group. I would call her out and tell her not to be a bitch. James Bond would just chuckle like she was a silly little girl. How would your friends react?
How did YOU react? You probably weren’t sure HOW to react, because you’re still figuring out your identity and that’s where this comes from.
What are you boundaries? Your values? What behavior do you accept or not accept from people? How do you let them know that? When’s the last time you made someone aware that they’ve crossed a boundary with you? Ever? We’re conditioned by society to be easy going and hold back our thoughts and feelings for fear of people not liking us or approving of us…but the guys who get laid are the ones who you can go “oh man if she said that to HIM, he would do such and such”. You want to be one of those guys people say that about
Awesome, the Simple Pickup guys made it onto Jezebel. I haven’t even read the article yet but I’m sure it’s full of implications that they’re evil rapists lol
I wonder how it’ll go over considering the Simple Pickup guys are pretty much the nicest friendliest funniest PUA types around the net these days…it’s easy to make fun of creepy Mystery and Tyler, but even to the mainstream public the SP guys are generally just goofing around. Plus they have an Asian and Indian guys of average height/looks who do well with chicks, so they’re underdogs busting stereotypes left and right really. I imagine the general reaction to this article will be a lot more “jesus lighten up” lol
Don’t let Scray hear how these average looking guys are doing well with women and busting stereotypes. We might have to hear another woe is more tale about the ONE girl that shut him down when he did a tucked up approach.
lol I actually left him an encouraging reply when I saw his longer thread where it sounds like he’s actually interested in trying to figure his shit out. I thought he was just pissing and moaning like that Wolfie guy at first but it sounds like he’s working on it so good on him and I have to give him props for it. But my posts are all doing that thing where they don’t show up until next week sometime
Also the initial wave of “look at those evil evil menz” feminists/whiteknights set in on that article, but I’m hoping it spreads around and some calm rational gamer types lighten things up there. It’s amazing how they can ignore all the positive responses from the girls in the video and just pick out the really offensive shit to paint the SP guys with. brb video of 10 girls laughing and smiling and giving their numbers and 1 girl being offended TAR AND FEATHER THE BASTARDS!!11 lol
Ah well, more publicity for them at least. I like their shit, they make PUA look a lot less creepy and weird than the Mystery generation did (even though Mystery Method is still rock solid and the concepts are still there inside all these different styles of pickup, the way of executing it back then was easy to mock).
Jezebel article made me so upset. They HONESTLY want their cake and eat it too. Can’t be manipulative and aggressive… no way. Can’t be nice and aggressive……creepy! They really expect Hugh Jackman to swoop in with an indirect opener followed by a compliment on how they have a unique sense of fashion.
Anyways, my earlier comment to Scray got modded as well so hopefully he takes a read of this. I had one of those 1 out of every 20 nights out kind of night saturday. I got shut down by maybe 5 girls and opened another 15. None of them were harsh at all but even when it wasn’t positive I was still able to sit back and try to look objectively as to why happened.
Scray, you should to the same. This girl didn’t reject you in as much as she rejected your method of doing it.
-Was your body language to direct (were you facing her?)
-Did you use any kind of opener? Or did you literally just come up and start dancing with her?
-Did you have any kind of social proof at the venue? Were you seen talking/flirting with girls? Did your crew of awesome players come with any girls? Are you cool enough to go to one of those girls and say hey “I want you to be my wingwoman.”
-What was your style of dress like?
-Did she notice you checking her out for a few seconds, psyche yourself out, go to the bar for one more beer and then meekly come back 10min later?
-What was your eye contact like?
-What was your overall vibe like?
I actually spent all saturday evening/afternoon just being chatty with my friend while we were out and about in NYC. Clerks, fellow bus riders, the guy who flipped my burger @ Black Burger, the two female concierge at the front desk, chatted up the group of girls outside the hotel at the cab stand after my friend opened them, chatted up my buddies group of friends from college even though I didn’t know them and didn’t see the point,etc etc.
Did you do any of this before you went out? Did you try and start by just opening ANY girl just to warm up?
And even if you did a lot of things right you still might get shit on for being at the wrong place/wrong time. Call the bitch out if she really deserves it but I ask you this this: If your approach could be better, and if you were to do it 100 times you would get rejected 70% because it’s not tight enough, then don’t get all butt-hurt and discouraged. It ain’t nothing wrong with you buddy just in the way you’re trying to do it. Separate the two from your identity/ego/whatever and you will have really awesome nights where getting rejected 5 times in one night ( yeah I know ) doesn’t phase you.
You can sit back, recap the exchange and not take it as personal. It would have happened to MOST people if they did it the same way.
Btw Scray. Sure, if you are not good-looking then YES it is difficult to go with the direct branch game if you are lacking in other areas (body language, social proof, style, etc).
Why not try other ways of opening at the club?
I remember the last venue I went to this weekend it was very intimidating. Tons of amogs, fine women, I didn’t know the venue. It took me 5-10min to talk myself into approaching this 7 near the VIP section with her group of friends. If I would have went up and started dancing like you did then I would have probably got the snarl, the backturn, or the laugh. Or a white-knight orbiter getting up in my face.
As soon as she glimpsed at me for a second I confidently walked over, paused,and told her that if she “was going to stare at me like that she might as well say something; I’m not just some piece of meat, I have feelings too.”
The result? She laughed. Told me I was “crazy” and kept dancing; except her body was turned toward me now. I talked for like maybe 20+ more seconds before I could tell it died down and I gracefully ejected. I definitely fucked it up right after I opened but I did not get shot down in the classic sense of the term. If I did maybe 3-4 things right with my verbal/nonverbal right after then it could have been successful; but I was too nervous to be my natural smooth self in that scenario.
But even then, no harsh feelings. I had over a dozen GOOD interactions that night and was legit proud of doing the direct and not getting blown out. You can make up your own line or whatever but there’s more than one way of skinning the cat. Sounds like you did the middle-school 8th grade dance routine whereas you just come up from behind and grind. Lord almighty.
‘Sounds like you did the middle-school 8th grade dance routine whereas you just come up from behind and grind. Lord almighty.’
Lol…it’s hard to hear anything on the dancefloor.