via Rational Male
You can look at learning the rules of basketball as being a weak frame because you’re not just running around carrying the ball and dunking it in whichever net you want…but some of us like playing the game and find the fun in it because we understand the rules.
If a guy wants to take his ball and go home because he has no interest in basketball, and talk about being better than everyone playing because he does his own thing, that’s cool, long as you’re happy.
But if you’re going home because even tho you WANT to play, you don’t understand the rules or can’t overcome them…well, that’s being forced into a decision by your own lack of willpower/discipline, not choosing a decision based on your wants/goals.
Ready? ’cause I’m about to blow your fucking mind here lol You can tell that some kind of dots are somehow accidentally being connected but can’t quite place your finger on how, why, or what the dots are…I’m about to draw you a big ol’ word diagram explaining all those dots and their connections so you can consciously and competantly see the shit you can feel is there. :)
“None count as cold approaches, though, which really sucks.”
It’s all good. You have plenty of time to get into cold approaching down the road. Celebrate all your victories. :)
“The weirdest part about it is that -so many- things make me angry/annoy me. I never focused on it before, but it’s true. And, you know, I guess I’m acting out now…trying to acknowledge my emotions instead of just ignoring them altogether.”
So before when you’d approach a girl or she’d test you or anything, you probably didn’t even realize you were angry/annoyed but likely you were sub-communicating this frustration and, since girls learn to subconsciously read those sub-communications from the time they grow tits, they were probably picking up on this weird “No I’m fine :) (internally: “AHHH FUCK THIS IS STUPID”)” incongruence lol
Thing is, you can be an angry guy, and get attraction…because the congruence is more attractive than the behavior itself. ie – when a nice but suspicious person approaches you on the street at night, you’re on your guard and wary. But the fucking crazy drunk loon rolling around on the ground shouting about aliens, well, you know exactly what that guy’s about and you know there are no surprises in interacting with him…in a way you TRUST him more than you trust the nice but suspicious person who seems to have some kind of ulterior motive.
This is why a lot of assholes get girls…because they’re genuinely assholes and up front about that and not hiding who they are or what they think/believe/feel. On the flip side, some genuinely nice guys get girls, like a lot of high-value cool guys who are just chill and friendly with everyone and compliment women etc…those guys succeed because they’re legitimately expressing themselves.
The disconnect for most AFC guys is that they THINK they’re that second guy I described, and are like “wtf I’m a Nice Guy, why can’t I get a girl??” and they don’t realize that that’s exactly the same vibe you’re just realizing you’ve had where you’re not REALLY being honest about what you think/feel…and that’s not even your fault, society conditions us not to really self-analyze and to just plod along thinking we’re special snowflakes. But it’s a consistent thing. That’s why the Red Pill is hard to swallow for a lot of Nice Guys, because they have to accept “shit, all this time I’ve thought I was like this, but in reality I’m ACTUALLY like THIS, and THIS isn’t really that good a person…wow…I have some work to do :(”
“It just pissed me right off, to the point where I was just like ‘this is fucking stupid, speak up goddammit, no one can hear you over here.’”
lol :) You’re on the right path now. You’ll find that a lot of pickup is based in being so frustrated by something that you finally take action to change it. Like a guy coming up to steal your girl and you’re just like “No fuck this!! Not again!!!” and pick her up over your shoulder and carry her away from the guy mid-conversation and then she fucking loves you lol
A common one that I run into is say there’s 2 girls and my buddy and I start talking to them. His girl is into him and my girl is into me (like she’s giving me EC and trying to hear what I say) but because she’s across from me and my buddy’s girl is across from him, we’re all intersecting awkwardly trying to have two separate conversations through eachother.
So I’ll just go “This is stupid, come here.” and put my hand out and pull her awkwardly through my buddy and his girl’s conversation over to me and now her and I can have a conversation while my buddy can work his girl. The moment is awkward, but the reality is that the frustration is forcing me to express what I really want and take action, so the end result is attraction instead of “wow that was really awkward”.
“the reaction of my friends has been more surprise and ‘hey, you okay man?’ type of stuff.”
lol ya, this is part of why we recommend going out solo, making new friends, and practicing on strangers. Changing your behavior will weird some of your friends out, and there are times where they’ll actively try to force you back into the role they’re used to you playing. “Dude, are you okay man? You seem stressed, you’re never like this…dude, chill out man, you’re creeping those girls out, why are you saying that stuff? Why are you being an asshole to her man? You used to be a nice guy, what’s up man, are you stressed or something? That’s not cool dude, you shouldn’t talk like that…”
If their pressure is too hard to deal with, you may have to stop hanging out with them. That part sucks. A lot, actually. You sometimes find out that you really only had 1 or 2 REAL friends in a group who want you to work on yourself and improve your life, and all the other friends that you thought were really close buddies will actually just try to keep you down and stifle your self-development.
Sometimes they’re right, that you’re doing weird/creepy shit. You’re going to be crossing a lot of boundaries to learn where those boundaries ARE, so you WILL do some legit awkward stuff…but if you can calmly explain “Sorry man, it’s just that this has always kind of bugged me and I’ve just never said anything, you know? I’m not trying to be a dick, I’ve just been watching this Tony Robbins shit and he talks about how you should express your feelings and right now I’m feeling like this kind of blows lol”, or something along those lines that fits your personality, and they don’t support you, well, they might not have your best interests at heart and it could be time to find new friends.
“I get the feeling that expressing my emotions in a ‘cool’ way will take a lot of time”
Yup, you’ll learn to do it. It’s like before you were way into the Nice Guy zone, and now you’re going to swing way into the Asshole zone because being abrasive/etc. will get you some results even if it alienates some people and that’s addicting so you’ll take it and run with it…but down the road you’ll swing back a bit into the middle and find what fits you best. We all go through it as we learn about ourselves, a lot of the stuff I did when I started out I don’t do anymore because I’ve figured out my Identity.
“it feels WAY better just being like ‘fuck it this is how I feel right now.’”
:) You’re finally being honest, both with other people around you and with yourself. Understand that you were never a bad person, or a liar or anything, you were just socially conditioned like 99% of the world and you’re finally waking up to that and breaking out of it…it’s like taking weights off your limbs and being able to finally move again…that feeling of freedom is a big part of why PUA sucks people in.
On a deep note, I feel like I live an extremely honest, congruent life, compared to pretty much everyone else I know. I know who I am, what I want, what I approve and don’t approve of, what I expect from the people around me and my relationships, and I’m very up-front about all that and don’t apologize for it. People might not like my views, but they respect that I’m honest. Where on the flip side I know guys cheating on their GFs, or girls lying about how they feel because they’re scared to rock the boat in their relationships with their family, or people who cut loose and act completely different when they’re drunk and all the repressed shit comes out, etc. etc. and to me it’s just a bunch of people who are often genuinely good people, but they’re trapped in this suffocating web where they can’t express or go for what they really want (or even admit it to themselves). In a way it’s sad to me, because being my friends, I wish they could break free and live honestly and lead happier lives. (some of them actually thrive off the drama though lol)
“Then….here it comes…she makes a joke:”
Her teasing you is an Indicator of Interest, though she might not even realize it. Would you tease a 400lb fat girl to her face? Probably not. But you might call the hottie you’re into a nerd for wearing a Transformers shirt. :)
On the flip side, would she say that to you if you were some gross homeless bum off the street? No, she’d want to end the convo as quick as possible and stay off your radar.
“But man….it instantly pissed me off.”
:) In time, you’ll legitimately laugh it off in your head. Like your internal dialogue will change completely from how it is now. So don’t worry that you got pissed, you’re still at the “fake it till you make it” stage.
“And yeah, I could have attempted to ignore it”
A lot of guys here will recommend that you be all James Bond style and just raise an eyebrow. And that’s cool, but step back and look at this emotionlessly from a logical Game perspective:
1) She shit-tested you.
2) Shit-testing you is actually an Indicator of Interest.
3) Passing a shit-test demonstrates congruency and increases her attraction for you.
Add that all up and you basically have a PERFECT opportunity to increase her attraction, by demonstrating your personality. Raising an eyebrow James Bond style doesn’t demonstrate much. But doing something like you do here, where you roleplay that your heart is broken, that you’re in love, making her feel drama like maybe you’re really hurt by her or pissed at her so she’s thinking about your interaction after you’ve left, etc…how much BETTER is that in terms of building an emotional reaction in her to you?
So you handled this perfectly. Breakdown:
“So, before, I would have gone along with it.”
And you would have been lying/dishonest/incongruent and not expressing yourself and your personality (aka your Identity). And a little notch of frustration would be added to all that pent up “I get really pissed off at stuff around me that I didn’t realize actually bugs me!” energy you’ve had for probably years.
“What was your name again?”
Here she tries to take/set the frame: aka tell me your name, do what I want/expect because I’m a girl and men do what I want.
“…man, that really hurts. I really like you. You know who I am.”
Here you avoid her frame and keep/set yours: you’re not answering her question, you’re scolding her, and you’re fucking with her emotions a bit proclaiming your really liking her (she thinks “?? is he serious? is he a creeper? does he like me? wtf?” and it’s not an attracted reaction, but it’s ANY kind of reaction, and that’s better than NO reaction…you’re appearing on her radar. You can make a bad first impression or a good first impression, it really doesn’t matter (as long as you know how to recover from the bad one), as long as you make SOME impression you’re polarizing yourself and standing out from the crowd of Nice Guys she runs into)
“Aw, come on, I’m just kidding.”
Here she tries to take the frame: implies you’re over-reacting and really the response she’s expecting here is a butt-hurt “oh okay, sorry I over-reacted…” But what do YOU do? lol:
“NO. I’M IN LOVE WITH YOU GODDAMMIT! WE ARE…UN-SIMPATICO!”
lol awesome. Here you’re shitting all over her frame: you’re not backing down from what you said, you’re not doing what she wants, and in fact you’re exaggerating way over the top the very thing she told you to basically tone down. This is the classic way of passing shit-tests. Like “How many girls have you slept with?” “Just one.” “No way, tell me the truth!!” “Okay, one billion.” (no apology, not doing what she wants, exaggerating, basically showing her that you aren’t so captivated with her for having tits that you won’t fuck around and amuse yourself in the interaction).
You probably didn’t do it on purpose, but you actually handled this in an optimal manner. :)
“So, I’m thinking, ‘whatever…’ I told the truth in a sort of jokey way.”
Yep. As you go, you’ll learn to express the truth but with a self-amused grin internally and externally, instead of being pissed on the inside and having to consciously filter it through a “how to present this in a non-butt-hurt way”. Like it legitimately won’t bother you and you’ll see it for what it is (a chance to demonstrate your personality and build attraction) and you’ll be HAPPY when she does shit like that because you’ll know she’s helping you lead things to sex. :)
“So anyway, the girl I’m kind of crushing on is like”
:) As expected. You’re on her radar and you left her thinking about the interaction and you and not knowing what the deal is exactly…are you mad at her? Do you love her? Why did you react like that? Who ARE you? What’s your deal?? And you allowed her the opportunity to re-open you easily. She doesn’t necessarily want to fuck you or is super attracted or anything, but your last interaction basically left her with an itch that she needs to scratch.
Try walking away from a girl who’s talking to you mid-sentence sometime. lol Like don’t say anything or pretend to see a friend across the room or anything, just literally go from staring at her making eye-contact while she talks, to just walking away and getting a drink or whatever and standing elsewhere or making small-talk with someone else. It’s almost guaranteed that she’ll approach you again or be relieved when you come back to her…again it’s not necessarily attraction, but it’s an itch she needs to scratch and makes her wonder wtf just happened there, which means she’s thinking about YOU and not some other dude…this is basically getting her to react emotionally to you.
“Hey, you know I’m just messing with you, right?”
Same exact frame-grab attempt as she did before, except worded differently. She implies you’re over-reacting and really the response she’s expecting here is a butt-hurt “oh okay, sorry I over-reacted…” But again what do you do?:
“My heart was broken then…but that’s all behind me now. I’ve moved on with my life.”
No apologies for your actions, not doing what she wants, and exaggerating the stuff she wanted you to tone down. But now you’ve added to the role-play and are amusing yourself and this is the point where she goes from “not sure what this guy’s deal is” to “ohhhhh he’s just fucking with me!! lol what a fucker!!!”
THIS is the point where Attraction is sparked. Essentially what you’ve done is filled her with a bunch of anxious emotions (“omg is he mad at me, did I say something wrong, who is he, does he think I’m an asshole”) and let her stew on it for a bit, then pulled the cork and swooooosh all that anxiety rushes out like air out of a balloon and she’s relieved and can relax.
It’s the same feeling of relief as when you gotta’ run home to take a shit and just barely make it to the can in time. :) You’re never more appreciative of that toilet than that moment lol because you had so much anxiety leading up to it.
Now she knows you’re a guy that does whatever he wants and just fucks around with girls who look like her, and that you’re not intimidated and won’t fall into her frame and you’re smart enough to fool her and she feels silly for falling for it. How many guys do you think do all that to her the first time they meet her?
“(nods with a laugh) Okay, good to hear it.”
She’s legit attracted and curious here, but as a girl she doesn’t really have any game lol So she doesn’t know what to follow up with. This is why PUAs stress Leading, because this is where it’s like the reins are on the ground and the horse wants to go somewhere, but it needs you to pick up those reins and go “Let’s go get a drink.” etc.
“YEAH. IT’S REAL FUCKING GOOD.”
lol not the optimal way of responding (neither of you is taking the reins here and leading things forward), but not terrible or anything. It’s just one of those “you won $50 but you could’ve won $500″ moments that you’ll learn to spot in the future as your game becomes more streamlined and efficient.
“She says something loud like “they’re all talking in alphabetical order!” Her dyke friend immediately moves to make fun of her, by turning to me and repeating what she said.”
Understand that at this point THEY HAVE TALKED ABOUT YOU lol Like when you were off talking to whoever about whatever after you told her you love her and walked off, guaranteed the convo involved the HB7 going “Who was THAT??” and the girls gossipping about you and your relationship with CrushGirl etc. (just as a heads-up, Field Reports are why we give girls names like HBCrush and ChubbyDyke etc., so it’s easier to keep track of who’s who in the report, so I’m calling your crush CrushGirl from here)
Also, girls speak loudly when they WANT you to hear what they’re saying and they want SOMEONE to react. My Natural buddy does it too, as a girl’s passing he’ll say something a little extra loud, often something offensive (lol), to make them react to him and then he can bring them into the conversation.
Dyke isn’t necessarily cock-blocking, but she is technically an obstacle. Fortunately you again handle this flawlessly for a guy who’s new to game:
“And I blink…and just nod like ‘YEAH THEY ARE.’”
lol. She tried to set the frame of “we’re making fun of HB7, back me up!!” and you shit on her frame and said “no, HB7’s frame is correct.” So of course she has to fight that and try to get you to cave:
“And the dyke is like ‘noooo, she just said it in such a dramatic way.’”
She’s probably pretty aggressive personality-wise and used to people caving to her frame. So she’s like “c’mon, agree with me damn you!! you’re supposed to agree with me I’m the queen of the universe and you’re just some boy!!”
“And I just put my hand in front of her face”
Fucking LOL. I bet if you could have seen her face behind your hand it would’ve been the funniest thing in the world.
“and looked at the HB 7.”
Solid. You’re good at this “showing intent” thing, where you cut from joking around (spiking their Buying Temperature) to “here’s a moment of realness. I want you.” etc. This kind of thing will often freeze girls in their tracks like a deer in headlights.
“They were fucking talking in alphabetical order, for sure, and your friend is a huge fucking hater. Deal with it.”
Like a BOSS. Understand that this Dyke chick probably has these girls and random guys all cave to her frame all the time, and you just stomped on her frame and laid out how shit is gonna’ work. You are the dominant authority figure of this interaction. That shit is SUPER Attractive.
Bringing it back to your height, remember how I said that being tall is just a quick indicator of “this guy is probably dominant and authoritative and can protect me and handle his shit”…it’s not that the height itself is attractive, it’s what that height represents to her, the same way we don’t find a tight dress itself attractive if it’s just laying on the floor, it’s when it’s on her body and showing off “this is a sexually attractive woman” that we’re attracted. Put that same dress on a fatty uggo and we’re not attracted so the dress itself has no magic powers.
So what you just did here, was demonstrate the same things that they expect tall guys to demonstrate. You dominated, were authoritative, held your frame, and showed the HB7 who was about to be made fun of by her friend that you can protect her and handle any shit the world throws at her. All the same things she expects a tall guy to be able to do based on his height…you’ve demonstrated through your personality.
“The HB 7’s mouth drops”
She was probably staring at you with giant wide anime-eyes as it dropped lol We call this the “Doggy dinner-bowl look” (DDB), like a dog looking up at it’s owner as it brings food to pour into it’s bowl, like it’s owner is the most special wonderful amazing magnificent thing its ever seen in it’s LIFE lol This means you have massive Attraction, and usually happens after you “fry her circuits” by spiking her Buying Temperature way up which is what you did here by obliterating the Dyke’s tests lol
Of course, that comes with reprocussions ;)
“and the dyke starts to tag-team me with the other ‘questionable’ girl.”
lol often the dynamic at this point is like, you can be staring your HB7 down hardcore looking into her DDB eyes and for her the entire world fades into the background and the Dyke and her friend are just yip-yapping at you, trying to get your attention back like a child tugging at your pant-leg and if you just keep staring at your HB7 unphased by the Dyke and friend, it just builds massive Attraction.
If you started responding to the Dyke and friend and falling into their frame explaining yourself like they were like “fuck you, you’re short you can’t put your hand in my face like that!!” and you got all “whatever fuck you I’m short but you’re ugly, I’ll do what I want” “you’re an asshole” “well fuck you!”, you would have completely lost all the attraction the HB7 had at this point for you because that would have been incongruent with the badass Boss display you just put on. But instead:
“My response was almost instinctive, I just pretended not to hear them and danced a little in place, swirling around my cup of wine.”
You did great here.
Like I say, staring her down would be flawless, but this was solid, and waaaay better than engaging the Dyke and falling into her frame.
“I felt something I’d never felt in a social interaction — domination. They were insulting me, but there was something different in it — they were supplicating.”
:) Pretty different feeling than when that girl on the dance floor sneered at you hey? Imagine how this moment looked to anyone in the room watching (and people do watch lol especially girls)…you’ve got 2 girls begging for your approval, and 2 girls laughing and eye-fucking you and probably girl-coding eachother (ie – looking into eachother’s eyes subtly communicating to eachother, learn to watch for this and read it lol) about how awesome you are, and the whole time you’re just standing there like a boss dominating them all, ignoring the supplicating girls and defending your HB7 from them.
Like, what a fucking scene lol You’re now the guy who’s making girls react to him, instead of the guy reacting to the girls around him. It’s a difficult nuance to explain, but that feeling you felt is the result of it and you can probably FEEL how Attractive that must be to a woman who wants a dominant alpha male.
Okay a lot of little things are about to happen in this last bit of the interaction and I’ll break them down bit by bit…you’ll find it’s kind of like a fight where it all happens quick and you look back on it and you’re like “wow that escalated fast” when you take it apart. As you gain competance, like becoming a good fighter, time starts to slow down in the moment and you can see the guy’s punch coming in slow motion…it’s the same thing with social dynamics, you feel 10 steps ahead of everyone when you’re good.
“HB 7 and my original ‘don’t know your name’ friend start laughing.”
They both want to fuck you btw lol CrushGirl wasn’t super attracted before, but you pinged on her radar, and rocked all of this, and now she can tell HB7 is into you because girls can sense other girls’ Buying Temperature so now you’ve got social proof, after doing all that boss shit, and now she’s attracted to you too.
“Then, the HB 7 suddenly steps closer and is like ‘can I have your number?'”
Have you grown 2 feet taller since that HB6 on the dance floor a few weeks back sneered at you? OR, have you started learning to express yourself and socially dominate your interactions with women? :)
“No bullshit here, and I saw — I felt! — the attraction radiating from her toward me.”
lol You weren’t imagining it. Logically based on the stuff you’ve described, it makes perfect consistent sense in terms of PUA principles.
“I blinked, and before I could say even one word,”
lol this’ll happen a lot. You’ll hit some kind of unexpected success that’ll blind-side you and you’ll often lose the girl because you freeze in a moment of “holy shit did that just happen?? what do I–oops moment is over” :) It’s that same feeling as if you were trapped in a dark cave and then crawled through a dark little doorway in it and bam, there’s this huge beautiful sunny beach on the other side and you’re just like “…woah…”
As you experience more and more of these situations, you’ll get used to them and expect them and be ready to pounce. It’s why really pro guys can escalate so fast, they’re used to it…but even then, a really pro guy who’s banged a thousand girls in bed will probably still be mind-blown by his first bathroom blowjob or threesome etc. There’s always new experiences out there. :)
“my original friend pushes her more toward me and is like ‘yeah, get each other’s info…get married…go for it.’ ”
lol because she’s jealous now. :) She’s trying to AMOG you a little bit and fuck it up with the “get married, go for it!” bit. Like with a dude and a girl I’ll tell him “oh ya, this guy’s perfect for you, you guys should fuck right now there’s a bathroom over there, you guys are perfect together” etc. and it’s a way of sabotaging things by escalating them too fast lol
It’s basically a big shit-test and you just ignore it and focus on your goal, getting your girl’s number.
“I managed to get her number”
Props! Not sure if it’ll flake. It’s hard to tell in these situations because for all you know her Dyke friend and your CrushGirl sabotaged you once they all left the party…like if Dyke was pissed or CrushGirl was jealous enough she could just talk smack about you until HB7 would feel too socially judged by her peer group if she dared fuck you.
“but got almost no interaction with her after that…her friends like, swooped in on her, surrounding her like a cockblocking wall. They left 10 minutes later to find a better party.”
lol ya, this is why we try to isolate the girl (usually at that DDB stage). If you can get her alone, you can escalate it and probably fuck her that night, but when there’s all these other obstacles around you can lose a perfectly “on” lay and it’s pretty frustrating. :)
“So yeah…what do we make of that?”
You did a lot better than you realize lol. Again I don’t know if she’ll flake or not, you left an amazing impression on her but a lot can happen between getting the number and meeting up again. This is why we like to go for the lay and consider the phone number a fallback plan “if we HAVE to”…but even then we try to use getting the number to set up a Time Bridge (Mystery Method stuff here) where instead of “give me your number” it’s “give me your number and I’ll take you to that place with the thing we talked about”.
“I’m pretty sure I did like most everything wrong and caught a spot of luck”
lol you did great.
I would txt her and try to set up an isolated Day 2, VS “my buddies and I will be at Club Blah on Friday, you should come out” because her friends and your friends will all cockblock you guys. So shoot for like, drinks and throwing darts at a quiet pub somewhere, or inviting her along to some kind of hobby you have, etc. You don’t have to be totally alone, you can be in a crowded environment, but just make sure that IN that environment, you and her don’t know anyone (or at least SHE doesn’t know anyone and you only know people who will make you look good and give you props and help you, not AMOG/cockblock you). Then you can build comfort/rapport since you’ve already got Attraction and escalate to the lay.
You might still fuck it up, remember we’re setting the frame that you don’t fully expect to get laid till spring or summer here, you’re still learning. So don’t beat yourself if you do fuck it up…but you should absolutely definitely txt her and TRY to push for a Day 2.
Immoralgables compiled some texting stuff here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?ou36b9mx5d44h31 – Give that a read if you have time, but the jist of what you want to do is spike her Buying Temperature through flirting/teasing via txt, then when you know she’s in a good mood from that, push for the Day 2 and get her to agree to it solidly (if she’s wishy-washy, pull the offer away or flake on her and try again next week).
I like to get them to a quiet pub near my place early, like 6 or 7, where I know we won’t run into anyone we know, and pitch it like “then if you turn out to be crazy, it’s early enough that I can sneak out the pub’s bathroom window and meet up with my friends while you ask the waiter to check on me lol” (as if you’re still qualifying her and not sure about her). Then when you guys meet up, flirt and tease, build comfort/rapport, escalate, and take her back to your place (“As much as I like paying $10 for a rye and coke, I have a bottle of wine at my place just up the street. Let’s go there and drink instead.”) and stay in and fuck all night. :)
This one will be fun. lol
“and I’m like ‘who the FUCK is out here?’”
lol nothing wrong with making an entrance. Especially if you’re feeling good and dominant and like you own the party. Stiffler’s introductions in the American Pie movies are great examples of this, where the camera follows him just dominating the room. Some people think he’s awesome, some think he’s an asshole, but everyone is reacting to him and every girl watching the movie thinks “I would so fuck that guy”.
“-Everyone- but her seems unmoved by my entrance, but she laughs.”
lol this is fine. She’s a girl, she recognizes unstifled behavior which signifies confidence etc. so you stand out on her radar. When Mystery walks into the room every guy thinks “what a tool” and ignores him, and even a lot of average girls think that he’s just some weirdo, but the hot peacocked girls go “hey THIS is a guy who has confidence!” and smile.
Your girl is only an HB6 and all that, but remember that there’s your rating of her, other guy’s rating of her, her OWN rating of her, and her rating in that moment in that environment. So a cocky bitchy Vegas 6 in some podunk small town pub things she’s an HB10 and you have to treat her as such and Neg the fuck out of her. But an innocent humble shy small-town 10 in a high-end Vegas nightclub surrounded by Playboy looking chicks might feel like she’s an HB6 compared to them, so you’d have to treat her as such and not be Negging her. This is calibration that you’ll learn as you meet more and more women in different environments with different personality types.
“My friend is like ‘hey that’s a nice sweater, you look really good in it.’”
Nice! That’s a good friend. An alpha AMOG type might try to tool you in front of girls and those are the guys you’ll often have to start hanging out with less. You should only be surrounded by people who support you and make you feel good about yourself.
“At this point the HB 6 starts telling me to model the shirt”
lol it sounds like you’re a decent looking dude like the working out is going good for you and stuff. And you don’t handle this badly here because she gets a chance to cop a feel (lol), but it’s another case of “$50 vs $500″ like earlier.
Check out John Mayer at 20 seconds into this clip when she asks about his tattoos:
He instinctively knows this girl thinks he’s attractive, and starts teasing her about it. The “spin me around, you want to spin me around?” thing fries her circuits. Of course once you start spiking her BT, her boyfriend might get jealous lol
“and you know, I’m like ‘yeah, I guess I can just be a dancing monkey here, screw it.’ So I do it”
Ya, you always fall into bragging/qualifying your muscles (“traps are too big to be drawn” AMOG comment from before, etc.). In THIS case it’s okay because she’s already attracted to you off your entrance and your friend giving you props on the shirt and whatever else she knows about you, but keep an eye on this in the future because a lot of times hotter girls will dangle an easy hoop/reward in front of you (spin around for me so I can feel you up!) but in jumping through that hoop you’ll lose her attraction.
Mystery calls this Hoop Theory, where if she sets up a hoop (“model for me!”), you can DO what she wants, BUT you should set your own hoop up for her to jump through first…it can be ANYTHING, something minor like “hold my drink for me.” or something major like “you first, that’s a sexy dress. ;)” If she doesn’t jump through your hoop, you don’t jump through her hoop.
It’s a way of supplicating for a mutually benefitial reward (she wants to feel you up and you want her to feel you up so it’s win/win) without doing it from a supplicating frame where you can lose attraction. Again in this situ you were okay, but with like an HB9 you can fuck yourself over…I’m just pointing it out because it might be a pattern for you, especially as you continue working out and liking your body more and more.
“and I notice that she’s touching me a lot,”
’cause she wants to booooone you. lol
“whatever, her bf’s right here, obviously she’s just touchy.”
You’ll be surprised at 1) how blatantly girls will flirt with you in front of their BFs, and 2) how OBLIVIOUS those BFs will often be TO her flirting.
I’ve had a LOT of awkward situations in my social circles where my buddy’s GFs/wives will flirt with me hardcore because I’m doing my thing on other girls in the group or bar and they see it and are attracted, and to ME it’s like this blatant flashing neon sign above their head but I look at my buddy and he’s just completely unaware of all the sub-communications going on, and I have to remove myself from the interaction ASAP for the sake of not creating drama in my social circle.
Make no mistake though, she wants to fuck you. Don’t do it if her BF is your friend though, there are other girls out there. Tons of em. :)
“asking me to turn around to see if I have the right butt to model the shirt”
lol because that makes logical sense. This is blatant flirting on her part. I would have a field-day with this if she weren’t my friend’s girlfriend lol :)
Of course she does. Because she wants to boooooone youuuuu
“and she’s like ‘still popping that collar eh?'”
Shit-test. Trying to get you to apologize for who you are or be embarrassed and qualify yourself to her etc.
“And I’m like, ‘fucking right, you pop the collar when you’re bringing the funk.'”
Handled like a boss lol Objectively someone might read this and be like “bringing the funk?? who the fuck says that, bro that’s lame don’t say that girls will think you’re lame” but the reality is that you can say whatever you want when you’re feeling in state and confident, even if it doesn’t make sense or is dorky, and the girl, because she’s attracted, will think it’s awesome.
It’s that saying of “I don’t do it because it’s cool, it’s cool because I do it.” :)
“She responds ‘…it’s a real short funk, eh?’”
Shit-test lol She’s trying to throw herself out of state because she’s attracted to you and sub-consciously knows she wants to fuck you and her Anti-Slut Defense is fucking with her because your friend is her boyfriend so she’s not SUPPOSED to be attracted.
So a shit-test is to make sure you’re congruent, but the reason they want to find out if you’re congruent is because they want to fuck you…so they’re like a car rolling down a hill toward a wall, they start pumping the brakes trying to stop the car. If you fail the shit-test they go “whew!! I knew it, he’s not that confident/cool/etc., now I can be unattracted ahhhh” which is why if you fail a shit-test, the attraction dies FAST as fuck usually and ONE failed shit-test can bomb an entire sarge even at the last second in the bedroom with the really hot girls.
BUT…if you PASS the shit-tests, then the girl realizes as she jams on the brakes that the brake-lines have been cut and oh shit she can’t stop the car and her emotions spike through the roof. She jams the brakes again, over and over, sometimes just a few times, sometimes all the way till your dick is in her, but she keeps trying to throw herself out of state to not fuck you and it doesn’t work lol
You passed her collar shit-test, so now she tries a height shit-test. You’ll notice that a lot of girls won’t shit-test you on your height right away, they’ll try shit-testing you on looking gay or popping your collar or whatever, and it’s when you don’t react to THAT that they step it up and start targeting your height because they think “shit, I can’t get to him…but he’s short, and short guys are always insecure, so I’m gonna’ drop the big nuke and shit-test him about his height! HAH!!”
You’ll also notice that the more they think a shit-test SHOULD get you to react, and you pass it smoothly, the MORE their attraction will spike, because you’re handling a tougher shit-test.
…and if you happen to handle it like THIS:
“So I just stop and look straight at her ‘I will FUCK the shit out of you.’”
lololololol I literally snorted my drink out my nose reading that. That was so unexpected, but absolutely perfect.
Again, I don’t think you consciously knew what you were doing but basically you demonstrated the behavior of a guy who saw “this girl wants me, she’s trying to tease me but I can tell she wants to fuck me, because all girls want to fuck me, and I’m going to escalate on her now” which is what a Natural high-value player type does…he senses when she’s attracted and considers all her tests as just flirting and confidently plows through and escalates and assumes attraction.
Now as a short guy especially, this is great, because some girls will label you as asexual the way they do with asians etc. where it’s like, they just don’t see you as someone they could fuck. So what you’re doing here is smashing her in the face with “I’m a sexual guy, sure I’m short but I fuck like a goddamn lion” and you get the DDB wide eyed look as she creams herself because you’ve taken yourself out of the asexual non-threat category/label and put yourself into the “if you’re around me, I’m going to fuck the shit out of you” category that’s attractive.
The irony is probably now in the future a chick will say “you’re short” and you’ll go “I’ll fuck the shit out of you” hoping to get the same reaction and it’ll bomb completely because you’ll be doing it with outcome dependance instead of this “what’s going to happen, someone yell at me for saying something offensive? Who gives a shit.” vibe you had here lol This happens to us all, but you’re game will evolve and you’ll come up with new ways to destroy this shit-test that get the same result, no worries. :)
“Her eyes widen”
“and she just laughs it off”
You’ve fried her circuits here, she doesn’t know what to do…deer in the head-lights style. If you walked away right now or someone else came over or a friend took her to the bathroom, her BT would settle down and she might even give you the cold shoulder later or feel like you think she’s a slut or something and start drama.
Or if you got into a rational discussion with her about how she wants to fuck you, that could fuck it up too because then you’re forcing her to acknowledge that she’s a slut which triggers her ASD etc.
“then I start dancing — she starts dancing with me. FYI — totally not the kind of dancing bf’s are okay with.”
But because you just drop the subject and let it hang in the air and just start dancing, she stops talking too, and from here it’s all physical.
You could take her into the bathroom right now and fuck her. Like, this is that moment. All you’d have to do is say “come with me.” take her by the hand and lead her to the bathroom (ie – isolate her), pin her against the wall and make out, and put her hand on your cock over your pants and it’d snowball from there.
Keep in mind that that was just in that moment. If you run into her today, you’ll be starting over back at square one, with at best a little attraction but often no attraction or even ANTI-attraction because she feels slutty for the thoughts she was thinking while you danced (or her BF chewed her out at home after etc.) lol So you can’t just run into her on the street and pull her into a bathroom…this was an eclipse of the moon lined up perfectly for a moment, an open window that’s shut now.
At the same time, the next time she gets drunk and you’re around and you do some alpha badass shit around her and she falls back into this feeling again, and you guys have isolation, she’ll probably get flirty again and you could probably escalate it to fuck her if you played it right.
THAT SAID…I don’t think you should try to fuck her, since she’s your buddy’s GF and all and it will fuck your social circle up hardcore drama-wise and right now you need good friends and party invites and all that shit more than you need one lay followed by a bunch of drama, fighting, and being ostracized from your social circles.
But it’s important that you know that that moment was there 100%. Again you didn’t grow 2 feet taller, you just presented yourself better and demonstrated some alpha shit.
“And you know, he laughs — she backs off and is like ‘oooooh, it’s just the shirt, can’t resist it. It’s a great shirt.’”
this is Hypergamy, rationalization hamster, avoiding responsibility for her actions, etc. in action. :)
Now I’m starting to think something is happening…”
For the record, I’d have called her wanting to fuck you back at modelling your ass in the shirt…possibly even before that at the modelling it in general. Like, that’s where guys like myself and my Natural buddies would place the “she wants to fuck” flag in this interaction and where a light would flick on in our heads and put her on our radar of wanting to fuck us. This comes in time with reference experiences.
“So she looks over at me and is like”
This is the same as CrushGirl re-opening you. You’re on her radar, intrigued her, and she wants to interact more and scratch that itch.
“So where’s your girlfriend?”
Huuuuuuuuuuuge ioi. This is how girls test the water to see if you’re taken or not when they want to fuck you. They’ll say “my friend wants to know if you’re single” or “where’s your girlfriend” or “your girlfriend is a lucky girl” etc. where they give you the chance to say “oh I don’t have one.”
There’s a lot you can respond here depending on your personality and what you want out of the interaction. Like if I want her to set me up with her friend I’ll say “oh we broke up recently, I’m pretty out of it now…your friend is super cute though, but I think I should just take a break from dating, you know?” and she’ll insist on introducing me to her. Or if I want to fuck her and know she has a BF I’ll say “Don’t have one, I don’t do the relationship thing…it makes me feel trapped, like sometimes you meet someone and you just want to see where it goes but most people will judge you for it because you’re dating someone. Personally I think people are too hung up about sex, sometimes it’s just fun to fuck around with no strings attached…” and set the framework where she can start rationalizing to herself that it’s okay for us to fuck, and then we can bang later behind her BFs back.
Again I don’t recommend that for you lol I wouldn’t do it at your stage where you need social circles, but even now I wouldn’t do it if I knew the BF let alone if I was friends with him. Personal code and all, but decide for yourself what’s important to you since that’s the whole theme of all this. :)
“Don’t have one.”
Nice and simple. You can say pretty much anything here, it’s again the “$50 vs $500″ thing where if you WANTED to, you could use this as a foothold to escalate the interaction toward a specific goal, but this is a solid neutral “let’s just see where this chick takes this because I’m intrigued by all this shit tonight” response where no one could be like “dude quit flirting with my girl!”
“Oh yeah, you’re a pretty hot guy…”
Indicator of Interest, obviously.
“are you gay?”
This could be a shit-test, BUT possibly not. You’d have to figure it out from reading her vibe and calibrating which it is.
1) Again, she’s attracted, she knows it, she knows she’s making a fool of herself and her ASD is shouting at her “keep it in your pants woman!!! we can’t fuck this guy!!! even tho omg we want to!!!” So she’s trying to throw herself out of state by shit-testing you hoping you’ll fail. This is usually early in the interaction or from dudes or from girls being bitchy (Dyke from before).
or 2) Later in the sarge, like this, when Attraction is already built up, it’s an actual question on her part. Like she thinks you’re so magnificent that she’s like “…how is he single?? How has no girl swept him up??”
I would suspect it’s actually number 2, not 1, because you two are past the “teasing game” stage and now she’s just got attraction and horniness swirling aroud in her mind…but again, you’d have to judge based on whether you feel she was asking sincerely/wonderously or like she was teasing you.
“See, in my mind I’m like ‘why the FUCK are people saying I’m gay?! Goddammit!’”
“But I have enough sense to try and process the whole message.”
Good. This’ll get easier in time.
“”Are you interested?” is the first thing I can think of. Meh.”
This is actually really solid. You’re doing the same thing as before with the “fuck the shit out of you” line where you’re just assuming attraction. That’s the behavior of a guy who’s used to women wanting to fuck him, it implies that you have reason to expect girls to want to fuck you, etc.
You’re not answering her question, you’re not doing what she wants, and you’re escalating through that window of attraction.
“She laughs, but I just stare at her. Like….just hardcore stare. She looks away.”
Perfect. You’re not backing down or laughing it off. What you’ve done is sort of a Statement of Intent. Like you’ve let her know “I’m serious. I’m thinking about fucking you, we’re past joking around here.” just by staring her down.
“If I didn’t have a boyfriend, yeah probably…”
And there’s your reward for pushing things like you did. You’ve just collected a reference experience where a girl with a BF who’s your friend will admit to you that she’d fuck you if he wasn’t in the picture. Again you didn’t grow 2 feet taller, you’ve just run really solid game.
Also note that her ASD kicked in here. She still wanted to fuck you, but her ASD went “BOYYYFRIEEEENDDDD!!! Don’t be a sluuuuutttt!!!!” and forced her to snuff her feelings out under the boyfriend comment.
In these situations we like to handle this stuff ahead of time, like my response above where I talk about sex not being a big deal and relationships being stifling etc. where it plants in her head that I’m not a guy who will judge her for fucking around on her boyfriend…as a result, I tend not to get this kind of ASD or it’s really minimal and I can easily plow through it for the lay. :)
Again it’s good that you didn’t, because the guy is your friend and it’ll bite you in the ass later. But it’s important that you know this was all happening.
“Then, I just sense that the moment is right and the frame has shifted.”
Yup. Now she’s feeling kind of dirty/slutty/ashamed of her feelings and she isn’t sure what you think about her and is probably worried that you might think she’s a slut and all these negative thoughts are looping through her head…remember the balloon expelling all it’s anxiety air?
“So I grin at her and I’m like… “…hey, it’s okay…I’m gay, remember.”
Perfect. phwooooosh goes the air out of the anxiety balloon as relief washes over her. This was actually a really socially calibrated move on your part. It’s good that you can “sense the vibe”, that’ll help you a lot in pickup.
“Instant laugh and her. hand. goes on my thigh (!!!!?!?!?!!!)”
lol :) Same relief as the girl from before felt where her attraction spikes a bit. With the CrushGirl it was early in the interaction so it wasn’t as massive as with this girl because this girl and you have been through a whole night of sexual tension and adventure together.
You’ve also demonstrated that understand her feelings, but that you won’t judge her or tell on her. If you had said like “ya, he’s a good guy”, she’d’ve felt worse. If you said “whatever, I’m hotter than him” you’d’ve looked like a jerk. But you basically said “hey, it’s cool to feel how you feel, I won’t judge you for feeling attracted to me ;)” This is the same kind of thing I get with girls with BFs that I hook up with when I disable their ASD about it.
“along with “…you’re a problem.””
lol She’d actually still be up for a fuck if you partied together, demonstrated some value, got her alone, and isolated yourselves. Again I don’t think you should do it, but it’s there. This is her saying “god, you turn me on and you’re not doing anything to dry my pussy up…if I hang around you, I’m in serious danger of getting the shit fucked out of me, and I know I SHOULD feel bad about wanting that but fuck, I don’t! You are a problem lol”
“and then her bf comes back. They leave shortly thereafter.”
I bet she fucked the shit out of him that night, while thinking of you lol
And there you go. Good stuff man. Hope this helps connect a bunch of dots for you and you start noticing the consistent patterns (why girls shit-test, how to pass them, why they boost attraction, how social proof and social dominance builds attraction, how girls will try to get you to jump through hoops, etc.).
You’re doing great, keep it up! :)
In both cases her cheating was motivated by needing to get a reaction out of the guy lol
In my experience I think for the girls who cheat carelessly and basically want to get caught, a lot of the time they just need their guy to react. Jealousy, rage, hurt, it’s all good, as long as he reacts instead of being a monotone opinionless spineless beta like a lot of long-term relationship guys become. They need to see that their lazy lion laying (lol) in the sun can roar. It’s almost more for the guy’s benefit than her own as weird as that sounds…like she’s saying “c’mon grow a fucking spine!! Go ahead get mad at me, do SOMETHING, be a fucking man not this lame beta you’ve become!!”
I find that the girls who cheat secretly are generally still in love with their guy or WANT it to work with him but he just doesn’t give them the tingle anymore or he’s shit in bed. But they don’t need a reaction out of him. Often these are guys who are situationally alpha (at work or with friends etc) so they know he can roar and the cheating is more selfish-motivated (“I need a good lay until he sorts his shit out”).
In this chick’s case she has a guy who cheats so he’s probably pretty apathetic about her and an emotionally unavailable guy who’s probably pretty apathetic about her. So in both cases she’s trying to hurt them so they’ll react and she can assuage her fears that she’s irrelevant to them in the long-term. I’ve faked being jealous now and then in LTRs because I know it’s important to a girl sometimes lol
A game related Q here is: if you wanted to fuck and keep that girl, would you be the attentative type guy? Or the aloof asshole who’s apathetic about her? Notice that she goes into a big rant about how she wants to be treated nice, but is she chasing any of those guys? Or is she still ranting about the “assholes” who didn’t give her their full attention?
This is one of those things where the girl doesn’t realize she’s telling you her “blueprint”. What she thinks she wants and what she actually responds to are two entirely different things. It’s a fascinating bit of cognitive dissonance to me.
lol I want to live inside King A’s head for like 10 minutes. I bet it would be fascinating. I’d probably have to wear a top hat and monacle.
Keep doing your thing, man!
I sure wish we could all be badass pussy slayers who deeply understand all the secrets of the universe right out of high school like King A.
I bet even Jesus wants to be like King A.
I am absolutely CERTAIN that you hang out in the highest of value social circles with the absolute hottest women and wide varieties of friends from across the world.
@tatearl on leading women:
Keep experimenting with it, it’s really powerful. The hotter girls tend to shit-test you more because they need to test your congruency but as you’ve found out if you hold your frame, theirs collapses and not only do they obey but they do it with a smile and a giggle. Some stuff to focus on that’ll help is your voice tonality (use breaking rapport and make statements not questions even if what you’re saying is a question, ie – “Where are you going. (Pause/stare)”. Don’t repeat yourself when they pretend not to hear you and go “what!!?” Just stare and say “you heard me.” Or don’t speak, and try experimenting with using less and less words in response to the shit-tests until your response is literally just a raised eyebrow and “you don’t really think ill let you get away with that do you? I didn’t think so.” staredown)
I can link some RSD vids on the subject if you want, they started exploring that huge back around 2009-10 and have a ton of teachings on it. Keep it up! You can do it via txts and online too but it’s trickier because she can’t hear your tonality.
“Marriage isn’t a mere “contract of monogamy”; it is a covenant and a sacrament. There are high-minded reasons to participate in it”
Oh you mean like believing in a storybook about a magic man in the sky? Definitely sounds logical and rational to me, not like believing in Santa Claus. I would definitely make all my big life decisions based on ridiculous stories in a book instead of real world observation and logic. P.S. I’m not religious, can you tell? Have a field day with THAT one lol try to use the word blasphemer if you can, that’d be completely unpredictable.
“What’s more, weak men complain of the marriage “trap” as a cover for their own shortcomings. They cannot be the man of their own house, they cannot control a woman’s hypergamy with love or with dread”
You know what would be a good solution for those weak men? Creating a contract that tries to force the woman to love and cherish them through sickness and in health rich and poor because they are weak men who can’t keep control of their household or own their woman and be the height of her hypergamy through their own self-development and constructing a legal contract was supposed to help keep their pussy from wandering to guys like me.
Except we all know it doesn’t help and now society favors the woman in divorce so it backfired.
Oh snap, served you again. lol I’m glad people are realizing that while you write pretty things you shouldn’t actually be taken seriously.
“Again, such heroic nonsense.”
“No one knows right now whether or not they will be able to fuck the same woman 10 years from now, especially if that man’s SMV goes up a point or two while his wife’s declines. If you fuck a dozen 7′s, get married with the best intentions, and have an 8 throw herself at you with a fat wife at home, all of a sudden “morality” turns into “opportunity.””
Well then, perhaps they shouldn’t be getting married or entering monogamous relationships because those are retarded notions that go against our biology and logic when you actually consider the long-term consequences of entering a monogamous relationship.
Oh snap!! I’m here to promote not getting into monogamy, at all, anyone. Did that just blow your mind? 😛
More to come later, I have an Xmas party to attend.
I’d recommend a man spend his 20s figuring out what his values and goals and standards are, by meeting and dating and sleeping with a variety of women and meeting and making friends with a variety of people, and doing some traveling solo to learn how to rely on yourself and build your identity as a man and solidify your internal confidence.
Then in your 30s, follow those values/goals and don’t settle for less and leisurely seek women out that fit your lifestyle and needs.
If these days you get married at 20 to the only girl you’ve dated, you are retarded.
Another way to look at it:
Say your rule/value that you’ve decided for yourself is “I don’t drink. It’s bad for my body and make me lethargic the next day and I have business to attend to.”
Then you go out with friends and they offer you a drink and you go “well I wasn’t really planning on drinking tonight…no thanks” and they go “aww c’mon man!!” and hold a beer in front of you. So you take it and drink it to feel accepted and not rock the boat. Then a couple beers in a cute girl you’re into brings you a shot and says “c’mon have a shot with me!!” and she wants to liquor you up along with her so you two can let loose and she can bang you and blame the alcohol. Knowing this and thinking you’ll need to drink to get laid by her that night, you do the shot.
You get hammered with everyone and bang that chick and it’s great. But in the morning your body feels like shit and your hangover makes you sleep through your business stuff and you have to play catch-up with it later.
Does that guy sound alpha? No. He’s beta because he let other people, peer pressure, pussy scarcity, etc distract him from his goals and he let those things dictate his values and overwrite his own.
Contrast that with the guy who adamantly, confidently states “no, I’m not drinking tonight thanks.” and is steadfast. And when that girl brings over the shots he says “no, I’m not drinking tonight, thanks.” even knowing it’ll be harder to bang her without the alcohol excuse and instead having to rely on his game and charisma to seduce her.
That guy still bangs the girl, but he wakes up, his personal goal/value of not drinking achieved, and does his business shit as planned.
Entering a verbal/legal contract where you agree to monogamy is the same as deciding not to drink. Don’t enter it if that’s not your value, and if you enter it, stick to it or break it off if you can’t because that’s knowing your goals/values and sticking to them regardless of “we’ll it’s hard”.
And yet again the older gen gets a free pass, they were duped into letting society decide their values for them. This generation of men (anyone under 40) should be smarter and more self-aware and more willing to follow their own path.
In a way I respect the MGTOW guys for making their decision (not to play the game) and sticking to it. It’s not for me but I can respect that they’ve made a choice.
Like I say, I give a free pass to the last generation because they didn’t have PUA Game or a Manosphere to learn from.
But any guy in today’s generation, who willingly enters a legal contract of monogamy and then cheats is someone who entered a contract out of ignorance, apathy, or against his better judgement because he caved to the social pressure to do it, or because he’s terrified he won’t be able to find another girl (scarcity).
If you aren’t ready to settle down, don’t enter a monogamous relationship. It’s that simple. If you’ve been around and you’re done with it all and you know you will be able to uphold your end of the marriage contract with this woman even if she gets fat and old and stops putting out and you will still be able to be loyal only to her, go ahead, get married. I wish you the best
But if you can’t keep your dick in your pants when your wife is old and fat and stops having sex with you, don’t enter a fucking contract that says you will. Know yourself and respect yourself enough to keep the relationship open and find a woman who will accept you that way. If you enter a contract (even just agreeing verbally to monogamy) and cheat on it, then you are beta.
It’s a very simple formula. Knowing your wants and needs and goals and standing by them is alpha. Letting others dictate those things for you or not knowing them or giving up in them out of fear of scarcity etc is beta.
And again the last gen gets a free pass, they were duped. There is NO excuse for a man to get married tomorrow and be cheating 5 years from now. Or for a man to meet a girl tomorrow and agree to be monogamous with her and cheat on her at the bar a few months later. No excuse.
CassMan’s got it. I concur 100% with his shit. Having to cheat means you put yourself in a situation where you’re not living congruently to your desires. It’s beta and weak.
That doesn’t help the old guys who fell into the marriage trap, but it applies to any non-married (not even single, just not legally bound) guys reading this blog. If you are cheating on your girlfriend or fiancé, you are weak as a man.
“Exactly. I love the male hamster. “Cheating is unacceptable, except under these specific circumstances, which applies to 99% of married men who cheat.””
No shit, that’s my point. 99% of men aren’t living the kind of lives they should be living because they’re not self-aware enough to know what they want and are too scared of being alone to achieve it.
Game and the Manosphere are the answer to that. This generation of old guys who are in that trap, hey, go ahead and cheat, you’re a lost cause, but do it intelligently. But the next generation of men that 99% sure as shit better be lower. It sounds like you guys are advocating non-married men purposely enter relationships where they have to cheat. I’m saying they should be learning the mindset and skillset to avoid both the marriage trap the last gen fell into and the scurry-around-like-a-pussy cheating scenario being recommended.
Jack gets it.
The disconnect is that to you guys you can only get the high-value that MPF brings by achieving MPF. Your scope is too narrow and it tells me that you don’t have a wide variety of social circles and that you don’t have solid cold-approach skills that you regularly work on (thinking you’d be good at chatting up strangers and visualizing it is not the same as doing it for 10+ hours every week).
If you regularly cold-approached and worked varieties of social circles and merged them and pivoted off them you’d have seen first-hand that high value is about building connections with the right people and the rest can be an illusion or temporary or situational and the same result is achieved (access to hotties the MPF guys have access to).
Again read my comment here about how I’d work Rollo’s party. The end result of that strategy (that I’ve executed before, consistently) is that I’d have the same or even higher value than Rollo and thus have access to the same girls.
You have to understand that Game, even PUA Game, is not just about getting one-on-one short-term pussy. A lot of the marketing focuses on that because that draws guys in, but the Mystery Method wasn’t about just banging some lone wolf girl separated from her friends. It was about becoming the highest value guy in high value social circles without needing to run the MPF rat-race every other guy is running.
Watch the Mystery Method DVDs, they’re on YouTube. I believe Part 4 is where he talks about using pivots and merging groups etc. Combine that with understanding how alpha/value/AMOG tech works and you’re on your way to worlds of access that normal people only dream of.
I’m VIP at a few clubs where I live right now. Is it because I have MPF and I make it rain money and shit? No, it’s because I strategically targeted specific people and methodically worked my way up the social chain to where managers and owners see me and come over to shake my hand and introduce me to people and I get free drinks all night and access to the hot girls and staff chicks.
And I can reproduce that in any environment with the same strategies…whether its the local coffee shop or my work environment or a new nightclub etc.
Sure the MPF guy walks in and has the same value as me but while he spent his time building his MPF, I spent mine practicing seducing women specifically, so he may be high-value and a badass in his social circle but my game is tighter, and it only needs to be 1% tighter. Go head to head with guys for girls and try taking girls off guys at the bar to experience this. If you’re not willing to do that and haven’t both succeeded and failed at it and seen the consistent patterns, you’re just mentally masturbating theory.
The reason she’s fucking celebrities instead of the unemployed drummer isn’t that his lack of job isn’t attractive, or that celebrity status is attractive, it’s that the drummer doesn’t have access to her world. ie – he’s not partying in the same bars/social circles as she is, and when she goes out she’s not mingling, she has 4 bodyguards with her and she’s meeting guys through her social circles which, as a celebrity, are generally networks of celebrities. Women tend to date men they meet through social circles in general (like a college girl dating someone in her school), and her celebrity status only enhanced that because she has more to lose (risking her reputation, finances, career, etc) banging a random guy who isn’t pre-approved by her social circles. And even when she meets an “outsider” she has to put up a wall of fake politeness because of her reputation because she doesn’t know who that guy is so even if he’s cool, he has an uphill battle to break through that wall of artificiality.
Note that those are all external logistical barriers that are preventing the unemployed natural and the celeb from hooking up. They have nothing to do with actual attraction. They’re the same as if you hung out in a sausage-fest bar instead of the Playboy mansion…it’s not that those girls won’t find you attractive it’s that you’re not in the same social world as them.
So gaining MPF can get you access to these environments and get you an intro to that celeb, but that’s all it gets you. From there you need game.
This is a very important distinction and I think that guys who don’t go out don’t fucking get why I’m differentiating these two things. They read what I wrote and think “so you’re agreeing I should get MPF because then I’ll get celeb pussy” and ya the end result is you will have better access to where those girls are compared to the average joe but that’s not getting you attraction.
You can get the exact same result through other means. Like say being Hugh Heffner’s best childhood friend. He became a jillionaire and you’re a janitor but you and him go way back and he trusts you like crazy and you’re his best friend in the world because you guys have history and he trusts you. Would you need MPF to land Playboy bunnies? No, you’re Heff’s buddy, you have access to the mansion plus the social proof of Heff introducing you to people. You’ve just gotten into the same logistical scenario as the MPF celebrity except you did it by fluke by being his buddy…but the important thing to take from it is that despite being a janitor, you have the same opportunity to bang those girls as the MPF guy so if you have some decent game, you’re banging playboy models like the MPF guy.
Group Theory in traditional Game (ie – Mystery Method, and Lovesystem’s Social Circle DVDs) are about learning how to work social circles and use Game to connect people and network and use women as pivots and build comfort/rapport with people and build your way up TO the point where you’re a part of these social circles that have the types of girls that you want. Whether it’s the rocker type chicks who hate MPF guys or the high-end socialite hotties that have 4 bodyguards out with them, you’re working your way up the ladder of those groups to have access to those girls without needing MPF so you end up in the position of Heff’s janitor BFF.
From there it comes down to whether you have better game than the MPF guy, as any ugly charismatic guy who’s gotten laid while their better looking but AFC buddy goes home alone, demonstrates.
Get what I’m saying? This is why I say I’ll put my Natural buddy up against most MPF dudes with Playboy bunnies any day of the week and he’ll get laid first and by hotter girls because his game is ridiculous…BUT he’ll never have access to those girls because as a Natural he doesn’t consciously cultivate climbing the social ladder toward that goal.
Some PUAs on the other hand, who are looking at the bigger picture, purposely figure out the ladders and focus on climbing them using the skillsets Mystery et al laid out for us.
I think a lot of you guys have too narrow a focus in what Game is and what potential it has beyond just picking up a one night stand.
Here’s a sample of how I’d work a room to put myself in a high-status position quickly, I posted it at Rollo’s:
This part of the seminar talks about merging sets and using pivots and comfort etc, but with MM his view OF pickup is that basically the entire bar is one big set, so Group Theory is sort of mixed into all of his stuff as opposed to just having a very separate “how to shmooze the manager of a bar” section, you know?:
I recommend watching all the MM clips (that’s Part 4, I think there’s 5 parts), because a lot of the stuff that works on women, works on men too. Men respond to social proof (lonely old man comes up to you and says hi, old man with 4 Playboy models comes up to you and says hi, who do you assume is higher value?), comfort/rapport building (figuring out what their values are and mirroring them back to him, being authentic/honest, sharing vulnerabilities/commonalities, making confident eye contact, etc.)…there’s a hook point (the point where they go from not caring if you leave to enjoying the interaction and not waiting for you to leave) with guys just like there is with girls and mixed sets. And once you cross the hook point you can build comfort/rapport and lead the conversation towards qualifying them, etc.
so basically you’re running a lot of the same stuff one-on-one stuff on the guys that you are on the girls (not kino, lol), and to GET to that one-on-one situation you use external Game tactics (social proof, pivots, merging sets, etc.), depending on how high value the guy is. If he’s just a random Nice Guy dude in a mixed set, you can just be like “Hey man how’s your night, these girls are gorgeous hey?” and he’s happy to chit-chat with you and boom, you’re his new BFF for the night and he introduces you to his girls.
If the guy is super high value, like a Rollo at one of his liquor promo events where his time is taken up by all the attention he’s getting and he’s very clearly the highest value person in the room, you need to bust out more tactics to get on his radar. It’s the same as an average girl VS a smokin hot turbo girl surrounded by 10 guys…you can just say “Hey, what’s up?” to the average girl, and that MIGHT work on the smokin hot turbo girl, but better would be to roll up to the turbo girl with 2 girls on your arms laughing and then dropping a Neg on her as you pass by, know what I mean?
So here’s some mental masturbation for how I would work one of Rollo’s events (except it’s not mental masturbation because I’ve actually done this kind of thing, more than once, lol I usually follow a gameplan similar to this but you have to tweak it for the situation of course):
If I walked in solo, I’d start from the bottom and work my way up. Open and befriend a bunch of easy sets, merge them with eachother to be the social connector (if two sets are merged by someone, the person with the highest value in that new large set is the guy who connected them because both sets assume he must know everyone in the other group of strangers they’ve just met) and use them as social proof and pivots to work my way up to the hotter girls in the bar. I’d keep an eye on who Rollo talks to and figure out which of them are close to him and which are random acquaintences and I’d approach them instead of him directly (same way you get to a turbo girl, open her friends instead of bee-lining it for her which makes her think you want something).
Building comfort/etc. with his acquaintences (if they’re women, innocently flirt with and flatter them, if they’re men, introduce them to women I’ve met that night), eventually I’d end up in Rollo’s vicinity and onto his radar. Ideally I’d have one of his closer acquaintences I’ve been building comfort with introduce me to him (“Oh is THAT Rollo? I love this event, I wanted to say hi to him but he’s running around so much I haven’t gotten a chance.” which generally results in an “Oh come with me, I’ll introduce you!”). Now I’m getting intoduced to him, maybe with a hottie on my arm, through one of his close acquaintances (social proof, pre-selection, being recommended by one of his social circle etc. are all packed into my introduction now) and he’s probably noticed me doing my thing at points throughout the night and, as far as he knows, I know a ton of people at his event because I’ve been chatting with people and twirling girls around on the dance floor etc…Much better than just making a bee-line from the door as an annonymous nobody and going directly up to him looking to take value which COULD work and he might be friendly because it’s his event, but would probably put him on his guard and keep me at arm’s length and I have bigger goals in mind than just scoring a promo drink off him.
Once I get to him (lol like getting to the boss in a videogame after levelling up, working a room really is similar to that), and introduce him to a girl or two that I’ve met that night, I figure out what his values and our commonalities are (not hard to figure out based on the event we’re at and the conversations I’ve had with people who know him etc.) and I start building a connection with him. From here, ideally I isolate him from the group (lol, this sounds so gay I know) because people bond better with some alone time together, but this can be as simple as grabbing a drink at the bar with him or whatever, I just need a few minutes where we’re talking directly to eachother. DHV a bit, be a fun guy, joke around with the bartender as we get a drink (who ideally I’ve met earlier in the night when I was building up my value), and basically be an all-around cool social high-value guy.
He’ll have shit to do mingling and all that, obviously, so I know I only get a few minutes, but generally manager types will give me their card at this point and offer to hook me up etc. because it looks like I’m the kind of guy they want at their events and that I can probably bring people, etc. (ie – I bring value instead of take it). From this point on that night, I’m about as high value as he is, or slightly less, because he thinks I’m cool but I’m not a close friend yet. That’s enough for that event though, I can use the value I’ve got now with pretty much any chick at the event.
But to play it long-term, I’ll shoot him a txt the next day congratulating him on the event, saying I had a great time, and because it’s Rollo probably mentioning I got laid to make him laugh. He saves my # and the next event I’m out at, I invite him out, or when he’s doing his “invite all the event type people out” invites he has to do as part of his business networking he invites me out. When I show up I make sure to come say hi to him and shoot the shit for a bit (usually if they own the club we’re in they’ll buy me a shot/drinks here, but they do that for all the regulars so I know I have to make an effort to shoot the shit about something relevant to them and build some comfort). Over the course of a few events I don’t necessarily become one of his close friends (though you never know, sometimes you just click with people solid and end up hanging out outside the bar scene, or if I threw a good party or something he might show up as we got to know eachother), but I at least become a guy that he looks forward to seeing.
At THAT point when I walk into his event, he goes “YaReally!! Hey man! Glad you made it, how’s it going?” and shakes my hand “I want you to meet Such and Such” and I get introduced via him and everyone around us (staff, girls, etc.) sees I know the most important guy in the room and how happy he is to see me, and now I basically look higher value than him since he’s so eager to introduce me around, so I MUST be high value. If we DO build a friendship outside of the bar scene as well, then I become a close friend and become even higher value when I show up because now I’m his good buddy dropping in.
So ya, that’s what I’d do. Like I say, I know that’s what I’d do because I’ve done it before lol It sounds like a lot of work to read all this, but when you logically look at what’s involved in it, 1) the only money I NEED to spend is whatever it costs to attend the event (usually like $10 club cover, or more for a larger ticketed event), 2) the majority of it only takes me like 2-4 hours at the first main event then some after-care, 3) I don’t even need massive seduction skills for most of it, just general social and comfort/rapport skills, 4) I don’t need to have money, a job, a car, etc. for any of it, just charisma and understanding Game, 5) it’s all fun, I get to meet a ton of people and probably come out of it with a bunch of cool stories…
But most importantly 6) It’s sure as shit easier/faster/cheaper than starting a line of liquor brands and running a promo event or buying and managing a nightclub etc.
One other thing to note about that strategy I wrote up above is that no part of it requires any kind of superhuman magic powers. If you break down what I’m doing through out, literally all I’m doing is causally chatting some people up in a friendly way, getting to know them a bit, and introducing them to eachother. There’s no “oh I could never do that” magic ninja tricks in there. I’m just doing it in a very strategic manner, and applying Game tactics to help out (like comfort to connect with guys, and teasing/kino to flirt with girls, etc.). It’s all just basic game applied strategically with a purpose/goal.
Cheating is for men with weak frames, a scarcity mentality, and no control over their own life.
Open Multiple Long-Term Relationships are the way to go. No lies, no deceit, no guilt, no shame, and all the benefits of normal LTRs. If you want kids, keep the girls on the side discreet and at a distance. If you don’t want your girl fucking other guys, be higher value than them to her (regardless of objectively whether most people would consider you higher value) and trust her hypergamy to keep her from wanting to bang anyone but you, and give her enough of an emotional rollercoaster to keep her invested.m
There’s plenty of PUA knowledge out there for anyone wanting to explore this stuff.
Zero respect for cheaters. Don’t give your word to do something you have no intention of doing or are incapable of doing.
Only situation I’d be alright with a guy cheating is a guy who’s already married with kids who’s just found the Manosphere after his wife has stopped putting out and forced him to be involuntarily celibate and the legal complications would be too severe if he were to tell his wife he wanted to fuck other girls. THAT guy can cheat because his options are get financially raped in court, go without sex for the rest of his life, or cheat.
Anyone else cheating is a pussy.
Here’s a simpler way of putting why your fears of these super ninjas is a waste of time:
How many Playboy models did you talk to this week? Ballpark figure. Say even this month, like when they weren’t busy doing their centerfold photo-shoot? Zero?
And how many super ninja alpha MPF rich Ferrari driving mansion owning dark triad badass 6-pack super players did you meet this week? Say this month even. Zero? Maybe one or two max?
And how many times did you compete head to head with these super ninja alpha dark triad playboy billionaires, for the attention and subsequent fucking of the previously mentioned Playboy models you were both surrounded by? Ballpark figure? Say in this last month? Approximately zero times?
…so what exactly is your concern? Seriously.
How do you explain guys with money, power, and fame who aren’t dating Playboy bunnies?
If MPF make men attractive to hot women, why are there a lineup of good looking guys in Armani suits standing on Death Row all night then going home alone at every high-end nightclub every weekend?
That’s like saying “a $10 bill can buy 1 of this item except sometimes it can’t.” It doesn’t make sense. Either that $10 bill is worth $10 or it’s not. If MPF alone creates these superhuman dark triad super ninjas, why are there guys with MPF who don’t have Playboy gfs? Or are you saying those don’t exist? That every man with MPF has a super hottie the instant they come into MPF? Are there no pro athletes who are single or dating mediocre women?
Sure, there are guys who’s “dark triad” traits helped them get MPF and that’s great, their dark triad traits are what are attractive to women, not the external MPF itself (except to gold-diggers and even then that’s opportunity not attraction).
The good part to having MPF is that that helps you get access to Playboy bunnies whereas Joe Average in Wisconsin probably isn’t going to be invited to Heff’s mansion anytime soon. But when you drop Bill Gates in the middle of the Playboy mansion along with any of the Naturals I know, the Naturals are getting poon while Gates holds up a wall.
Go out a bunch, to high-end nightclubs, and watch how some MPF guys get pussy and some don’t. Then figure out what the commonalities and differences are between the groups. Then figure out which commonalities produce consistent results. You’ll end up back where I said: at internal confidence.
There will always be someone better looking than you, there will always be someone with more money than you, there will always be someone with a more defined 6-pack than you, there will always be someone with a nicer car than you…and the really high-end girls are surrounded by these guys so that stuff starts to lose its value because everyone has it. Hell, even SHE has it if she’s rich or high-status or a celebrity etc.
So what in your life is something that every other guy isn’t competing tooth & nail to be the best at, or even capable of being the best at? How do you stand out?
A lot of super hot girls end up with “weird” guys (like super artsy dudes) who make you go “wtf? why is she with THAT guy??” And then you hang with that guy and you realize he’s got a really strong frame and is super passionate about whatever his shit is, while the other guys around her are just cookie-cutter guys all running the rat race to compare dick sizes with eachother hoping to get her attention.
Also a good quote. To relate it to pick-up: Hot girls don’t really care WHAT you’re interested in, good at, passionate about, or awesome at…just be interested in, good at, passionate about, or awesome at SOMETHING.
That’s why you can talk about “uncool” shit with girls, like if you’re passionate about videogames, you can talk about that. Tyler from RSD talks about nutrition and shit with girls. I talk about psychology and social dynamics with them now and then. They care more that you have passions and goals etc. than what those passions and goals etc. actually ARE. Because really, most girls don’t have any fucking interests of their own lol
It goes back to that rule of “I don’t do it because it’s cool, it’s cool because I do it.”
So if you’re good at or passionate about something you don’t think would appeal to girls, it’s often more worth your time to really own that than it is to start doing shit you think will appeal to girls but that you have no real interest in.