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Losing My Religion

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via Rational Male

YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 7:29 am
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lol @ guys thinking PUAs aren’t already in your churches slaying poon and like there aren’t Christians learning PUA (and other religions, including ones that frown on sex). You think having a boner is going to make you burn up when you walk through the church doors? You think these priests aren’t fucking nuns and shit while telling you to feel ashamed about sex? lol


Losing My Religion

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via Rational Male

YaReally
on September 3rd, 2016 at 7:05 am
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holy shit not to derail but this is the funniest shit going down:

Krauser was talking smack about this Deepak dude and put up a post about how his infield is fake. Deepak ain’t taking shit and has called Krauser out: he has the full unedited footage and he’ll show it to Krauser in front of a 3rd party and if there’s any hired actress discussion shit (according to Krauser the whole thing was OBVIOUSLY staged and Deepak is giving the girl instructions between cuts and shit), Deepak will delete his channel and all his vids and leave the industry forever etc

But if Deepak shows him the full uncut footage (of the pickup and multiple dates) and there IS no hired actress discussion shit, Krauser has to delete his channel and all his vids and leave the industry forever.

Fucking hilarious. If Krauser DOESN’T accept, he looks like a bitch, but half his observations about the footage were retarded (like saying there’s no cut between changing camera angles when there’s clearly an obvious cut with a note indicating what’s currently happening in the convo, like the cameraman just walked over to another spot, no big deal, or the guy repeats his own question a couple times which EVERYONE does all the time including the London guys, it’s just losing your train of thought, and he’s saying a guy who’s uncharismatic/boring talking to the camera can’t get laid when Krauser’s vids are just as uncharismatic/boring (watch his book release announcement vid, it’s brutal to even skim through)).

My analysis of some of Deepak’s footage here (stuff about overcoming looks/accent with subcomms etc):

https://therationalmale.com/2016/08/21/the-key-masters/comment-page-7/#comment-167504

I don’t know whether Deepak is legit or not but he seems confident as fuck about this and I haven’t seen anything in his footage so far that looks blatantly fake (or any worse than Krauser’s infield)…Krauser doesn’t really understand subcomms (watch his infield with the volume off and assume the girls can’t understand English well anyway since they’re ESL so they’re just looking at his body-language and the tonality of his voice etc and he’s pretty solid) and hates minorities and is focused on the looks matter thing so I think he’s just blinded himself here.

WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT ON THIS PUA DRAMA REALITY SHOW. WILL KRAUSER BE DELETED FROM THE INTERNET FOREVER??! lolol


YaReally
on September 3rd, 2016 at 7:37 am
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@hank
“but I am changing up my “where are you from?” bit. Firstly, I am making it a statement so now its ”You’ve lived here your whole life, right?””

Good. Statements are always much better even if they’re wrong (sometimes it’s BETTER if they’re wrong). It makes them curious like “wait why does he think THAT about me?? Is there something about me that gives that impression?” Great for like, compliments or teasing…”You must go to College Name.” “What no I don’t” “Oh really? Weird, you just seem like the type…” “What do you mean?” “Don’t worry about it, so anyway bla bla” They’ll be dwelling on why you made your assumptions.

“What I picked up on must have been your adventurous side. You like to try exciting things right.” or “oh, so you aren’t from around here. I see. I must have picked up on the fact that you are well grounded. even though you like to party, you don’t do it ALL the time — just to reward yourself after a job well done.” point is, just take the INCORRECT cold read as you picking up on something DEEPER about her — so instead of being wrong, you are actually MORE CORRECT lol.”

God, Scray will love these but these are torture to me because I hate doing serious rapport/comfort lol Try it out though.

I go the opposite route with disqualifying instead of seeking a connection: like “oh you ARE from here? Weird, you’re so quiet (even if she’s not), I just figured you were new here and shy.” to get her to qualify herself that she’s not shy and wondering why I think that about her, which I can use to go “Oh, then you’re actually a crazy party girl? Are you hungover right now? Now I recognize you, you were the hammered chick twerking up on the bar last night.” which gets her to laugh, turns things sexual, and gets her to qualify herself “Noooo, that wasn’t me I’m not like that!” or, if she’s my type, play along with the roleplay “oh ya that was totally me”, either one gives me a lot to work with and her temp is spiked and she feels more rapport/comfort because even though I’m making exaggerated guesses about her, I AM technically getting to know her better each time. I’ll turn them more serious as I go…like I’ll get to “so you don’t go out much? That’s good, party girls are crazy, I’m too old to babysit you while you barf on the sidewalk…what DO you do for fun? You seem like the book-reading type…” and now do the gay real rapport/comfort stuff, but I like to start with the BT spiking stuff because that’s my personality and I’m actually screening her to see if she’s going to roleplay along with my reads or not (aka is she the type of girl I like interacting with or is she boring).

Oh, and if she’s hot enough I’ll just do a “So anyway–” after that initial “I just figured you were new here and shy”, to change threads before she can qualify herself, leaving that unresolved “he has the wrong impression of me” feeling lingering, and then stack that like Julien explains in PIMP in the “stacking devalidations” explanation…when people have the wrong impression of us we want to correct them, so when they keep going with more wrong impressions it gets to the point where it’s like “Wait stop!! Let me explain (aka qualify myself to you)!!” and then I can validate her for some of those things she corrects (“oh you’re NOT shy? That’s good, I hate shy girls they’re so boring…”).

Fuck around with that stuff when you get the chance to. It’s hard to really write it down in advance because a lot of it is going to come from stuff she’s doing in the moment but you’ll find stuff like shy/quiet/boring/loud/feisty/sassy all go over well with most girls.

Try following up with that company in a week, maybe whoever they interviewed won’t have panned out or some shit, tell ’em to let you know when they have their next round of interviews or something. They’re not hiring you anyway, so nothing to lose, you might fluke into a “well this guy turned out to cost a lot to relocate or he can’t start for 3 months and this hank guy can start tomorrow, hmmm”

Calculate the part-time stuff out, is it enough for rent/food etc? And make sure they know you want full-time ASAP, who knows maybe you can do a couple months of part-time then transition to full-time even if full-time isn’t available now.

It’s impossible for you to go from now till age 60 without getting a job, like, it has to happen at some point lol So keep hitting it up, all you need is that one little foothold of some kind of job that can pay rent in that city, once you get that you’re set from there. All the other bullshit in your life will seem way less frustrating when you’re out surrounded by cute girls having fun interactions etc…like I’ve been poor most of my pickup career but when you have some hottie drop by to bang despite that it’s like “well okay I guess I don’t have to freak out too much about it, just get it handled over time” VS when you have no access to girls and it’s like “fuccccckk everything sucks and the universe hates me!!” lol


YaReally
on September 3rd, 2016 at 8:13 am
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@Softek
“Feeling like I’m watching something “dirty.” I realize how gay that sounds. But most of my life has been so puritanical, it really feels that way.”

lol that’s specifically WHY you should watch it. To normalize that people having sex and talking about sex and guys hitting on girls and girls wanting and enjoying sex and dumb funny serious sex stories happen in real life and that’s just the way shit is out there despite what people around you have tried to prevent you from seeing.

When I started pickup I was coming out of full hermit mode, had never even held hands with a girl till age 23 or 24 or some shit, and I was the polite Nice Guy who didn’t talk about sex and was uncomfortable when other people did etc (meanwhile I was fapping to hardcore porn all the fucking time lol but there was that madonna/whore separation of porn and pornstars and that “dirty” stuff that you keep secret and pretend you don’t ever look at, VS the real world where it’s all innocent unicorns that you don’t think about sexually).

So I went to strip clubs a bunch at first just to get used to being around real live naked women, who would actually touch me and shit. Huge sensory overload and it forced me to deal with the “this is dirty and wrong and sex is shameful” etc baggage beacause there it was right in front of me and talking to the girls a lot of them weren’t the broken dreams being taken advantage of by a pimp types, a lot of them were just cool girls that were fun to talk to who just also happened to be cool with sexuality (and thought it was adorable that I was a nervous Nice Guy in there they could correupt etc)

Like, you weren’t BORN feeling like sex was shameful. You ran around buck naked and sucked on your mom’s boobs lol You were conditioned to feel that all that shit was shameful as you grew up. So you have to condition yourself the OPPOSITE way to undo it…proactively. Like watching this kind of stuff and ideally interacting with other girls who are less frigid repressed controlling than your girl (meanwhile she’s out sucking your dick while she’s dating her ex-boyfriend…but YOU should feel ashamed about watching a good fucking TV show).

“her behavior, by the way, also lines up very well with how I was raised through church”

Duh, that’s why you’re with her. She’s offering you a nice familiar world. You’re trying to break away from your churchy conditioning and feel guilty about that so you got yourself a nice controlling little girlfriend that will pick up the slack of shaming you now that the church can’t. Same way the FI is taking over the “shaming men for their sexuality” now that men aren’t hitting up religion as much. SOMEONE’S gotta control your dick for you lol And your brain doesn’t care if you’re happy, you’re brain just cares that things feel comfortable and familiar, whether it’s shitty or not, so it wants to stay with her ’cause out there in the world of sex and deviancy who KNOWS what to expect.

“Even friends I have are kind of “high brow” and would absolutely look down on me for watching some “sleazy” like that, or come at me with some shaming shit like “You watch that shit? Oh my fucking god, get out of here,” etc.”

Meanwhile they’re all looking up fucked up porn when no one’s around, guaranteed.

“I’m most envious of Hank in Californication not because he’s portrayed as getting tons of pussy, but because he’s unapologetically himself. The getting tons of pussy seems like a natural byproduct of that.”

You got it. That’s the lesson to take away from the show that people miss. It’s not about the pussy adventure stuff, although that’s fun…the role model part is that Hank just does what he wants. No one tells him how to feel or what to think and he doesn’t censor himself or hold back, scared to fuck up now and then or offend someone. And people love his character and let him get away with it because it’s a congruent character. Imagine Runkle trying to act like Hank, it would be weird, because Runkle is just a chode. This goes back to the Tyler infield where he shows a girl shaming his Nice Guy buddy for the same shit Tyler says, because he’s not “allowed” to say that stuff.

Hank is like Tyler in Fight Club: “most importantly I am free in all of the ways that you are not”

That’s why I prefer the pLTR stuff where the girl KNOWS I play around on my own time…it allows me to freely be who I am with no guilt or shame hanging over my head.

“But it was interesting to see…hey, there are girls in the world that don’t have like a PTSD reaction to anything to porn or naked bodies.”

Ya dude, this is what I’ve been saying since day one lol Your chick is fucked in the head. You should ask her ex if she was fine with HIM watching porn and talking about sex, or if it’s just you because she’s old and needs to nail you down as a long-term provider and she knows she can control you with the church guilt shit because you’re in scarcity.

“I feel like that’s kinda common these days, e.g. girls that are really damaged and will freak out about porn or anything, e.g. if they have been sexually abused during childhood especially.”

lol no it’s the opposite. Even feminist chicks admit they love porn…they only have a problem with porn when men watch it or if it appeals too much to men and makes them seem less valuable in comparison lol Porn is so normalized now. Who do you think went and bought the billion copies of 50 Shades of Grey books that sold? Dudes?

“So I also need to get REAL abundance and set my sights on different girls.”

You keep sayin it but you ain’t doin it lol

“Because of my past I tend to be drawn to girls with issues, like one of the hookups I had was with a girl I met at the mental hospital. Not the best place to meet healthy people.”

#edgelord. Everyone has issues, people aren’t perfect. But you can find someone with issues you don’t mind, instead of someone with issues that make you feel bad and stifled and restrained.

“This also hits me with quite a bit of fear because I always thought of “healthy” or “normal” women, sluttiness and all included, as superficial.”

It’s all in your head. AWALT.

“And was always surrounded by people who shame shit like that.”

Meanwhile all of them are fapping to porn full of slutty chicks. They’re not fapping to Lena Dunham dressed like their grandmother reading a book.

“I’m sure you’ve had your fill. A lot of critique of PUA is that it only works on dumb bar sluts, and all PUA guys are superficial douchebags, etc.”

Been hearing it since I started. It never comes from anyone with a sex life or default day to day level of happiness and freedom/unstifledness that I’d want to trade with. It always comes from guys who don’t get laid, can’t get laid, are unhappy with their sex lives, or are unhappy with themselves. Or from chicks who are unhappy with themselves. Just projection and ego-protection, because THEY didn’t go approach the hot girl they saw, it’s easier to think well no one could get her instead of “if I wasn’t such a lazy fuck and put in the effort to learn game, I could get her”

Never seen a dude who says “any guy can get those drunk bar sluts it’s easy” actually pick one of them out and get her, let alone get a sober hot girl on the street etc

“The stigma is TREMENDOUS. I have to learn how to get that shit out of my head.”

Gotta stop basing your self-worth on what other people think of you.

“That’s another thing that’s cool about Hank. Not giving a shit what people around him think and basically being the only authentic guy in a city full of liars. In that sense it makes all the ‘scummy’ stuff he does seem actually heroic in its own way.”

Exactly. Think what you want about me, but at the end of the day I’m more free and happy with my life and doing and getting what I want, than 90% of the people who criticize me.

You’re a “sleazy scumbag player”, you’re just still trying to pretend you’re not and shoving it down inside hoping it might go away so you can settle with this chick. Just like the church had you shoving your sexual urges and shit down inside hoping they’d go away.

This is why I say half of pickup is learning about YOURSELF, not the women. You don’t even really KNOW who you are, ’cause you’ve never let him out let alone embraced him. Too many chains and too many fears holding the real you back.

Hank represents a guy who’s gone “look, I’m not perfect, and I’ll try to do good, but I might fuck that up and that’s okay, ’cause I’m being who I am.” and just embraced it and run with it.

And sure, he’s just a TV show character…but watch this clip and compare how stifled and restrainted and how many chains everyone else is in compared to Russell (he even GIVES the host guy his freedom by telling him he’s free to do what he wants, Russell is fully versed in how people are trapped in their social conditioning and societal chains):

The reason this video went so viral is because when people who are restrained see people who AREN’T unrestrained, like this, or like Hank, they go “god, I wish I could be like that…”

The catch is: you CAN. Anytime you want. Starting right now. The chains and fears are all in your head.


YaReally
on September 3rd, 2016 at 8:21 am
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@Softek
Consider this: guys are attracted/turned on by sexy chicks showing their bodies. Your girl won’t let you watch that. Women are attracted/turned on by guys demonstrating high-value characteristics (dominance, leadership, confidence, assertiveness, etc).

Does SHE refuse to watch shows/movies with strong alpha male characters in them? What would happen if you told her you don’t want her watching shows like Mad Men or Suits or anything, all she’s allowed to watch are shows starring Michael Cera. Would she laugh at the notion?

’cause ONE of you is allowed to get turned on by the media they consume while the other has their sexuality under lock and key.


YaReally
on September 3rd, 2016 at 5:00 pm
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@Softek
Sure, you (not you specifically but this is for any guy in this situation) can try to keep her away from porn. Then you can block all the commercials with guys with better abs and muscles than you on TV, just have her stare at you until the commercial is over. After that when you go outside you can put horse-blinders on, so that there’s no risk of her seeing a better looking guy except a small window of vision in front of her. And you could have code words, like if there’s danger approaching, a good-looking guy, and you’re not close enough to physically cover her vision, you shout the code word and she ducks to the ground and covers her eyes and ears (maybe he has a hotter voice than you) and waits for you to tap her on the shoulder to know that it’s safe to stand up again, before you rush her back to the dungeon with no windows.

Or you can accept that there are ALWAYS going to be hotter guys than you out there. And she’s always going to be turned on when a guy DHVs because “attraction is not a choice”, the same way that part of your brain is always going to light up when you see a smokin hot 10, that’s just your nature/biological wiring. And just accept that that’s okay and natural and that you offer a ton of other value that those guys don’t, because 99% of those guys are chodes or weird about sex or insecure or uncalibrated or have baggage or a million other things where if she left you for them you would laugh and shake your head in wonder because she’s making such a terrible decision.

Not caring if she leaves you is a DHV in itself…and it’s a DHV that most guys aren’t able to do, because they’re in scarcity and don’t have other options and can’t get other options, and they worry at their core that if she strays she won’t come back. That’s why they get married (not all married guys, talking Blue Pill dudes that think it’s going to give them a guarantee) thinking a legal contract will help negotiate her desire and force her to not stray…because they don’t ACTUALLY believe in their own self-worth (usually because they haven’t actually gone out and fucked a bunch of girls and had that infield reference experience evidence that they DO have value).

So that guy with the 11″ dick bothers them. And what you feel she feels…she may have just viewed him as “hot but probably not as good overall as my guy”, but when YOU’RE threatened by him she thinks “hmmm he must know something about these other guys that I don’t know if he thinks they’re an actual overall threat…now I’m curious what I’m missing and need to interact with this guy more to find out” Meanwhile their boyfriend is falling into more and more scarcity and insecurity the more interest she shows in the other guy (multiplied by his inability to walk away easily if he’s legally tied to her), which just rolls the snowball down the hill to grow.

I listened to a FB the other day telling me about her recent attempts at dating a Tinder guy and a guy from work and she described them both as tall hot jacked etc, one was a lawyer she works with, and she tried to give them a chance. Tinder dude blew himself out over dinner because he was a little TOO cocky/uncalibrated (not the fun cocky/funny but off-puttingly arrogant and not realizing he fucked the vibe up) and tried to DHV badly telling her she was lucky he cleared his plate to take her out because he had other dates lined up but thought she was special bla bla like just too try-hard gay esp after he already lost some value with her.

The guy from work she told she wanted to keep their going out discreet to avoid work drama/gossip and so of course the next day he went around work telling everyone about their date and how they’re basically a couple now and then got all clingy and butthurt that she wasn’t txting him enough. And an old FB she had (another ripped jacked dude, bartender natural who’s slayed a half the poon in this city but is getting into his 30s now and slowing up and wanting to settle down) has turned into a full out vagina who’s basically begging her for a date and has lost all attractiveness to her that he had back when he was a badass player. She’s basically just using them for free dinners now because money is tight and they’re offering, she just tells them she’s too full after lol

She finished her sad group of stories off with “these other guys really just made me appreciate you more”. I’m currently at my fattest ’cause I’ve been focusing on work and haven’t had a haircut in months because I had acne flare up all over my neck, I’m in full man-boob mode and haven’t spent a dime on her in the years we’ve been banging lol She’s got fake tits and a smokin body, bubbly happy fun personality, dolls up for me, kinky as fuck in bed, and afterwards SHE was apologizing to ME because she had yoga pants on instead of a sexy outfit (it was an unexpected meetup) and expected me to possibly kick her out for it or not want her over again lol She’s promised to make it up to me next time.

My point is that through the whole thing I just lol and ask questions (to see what my competition’s game is like) and critique the other guys’ game and cringe along with her and lol at the texts she shows me and don’t bat an eye at seeing their pics even though they’re all better looking than me and she was, at least initially, attracted to them. And part of why she keeps coming back to me is because of how unfazed I am by any of that shit. I’m not offering commitment and she’s 24 and done with the bar scene so she tries these other guys hoping to find a guy that offers the sexual adventure shit and confidence and masculine alpha shit that I give her, but will also provide/commit, but guys have turned into girls now. Her and her girlfriend have been complaining to eachother that it’s like guys are chicks now, clingy and needing too much attention and shit lol

I know what I’m offering and I know it has value to them and I know other guys don’t offer it, so I don’t care if the other guy has an 11″ cock or 6-pack abs. Very few if any of those guys will have the solid frame and internals that I’ve built, and very few if any of them will have the internal abundance mentality to walk away or punish bad behavior or expect things from her etc

Listen to a bunch of Patrice O’Neal on YouTube talking about relationships and women…dude was a huge fatass but his frame with regards to him being the prize with women was the Red Pill ideal. He knew 100% with no sliver of doubt in his core that a woman’s life was better with him in it and that she would be disappointed with any other man and would be a complete mess alone without him. He DARED his girl to go bang other guys, because he knew other guys were shit and she would come back to him and he would make her “just a ho” again instead of a girlfriend and he knew the fear of losing her rank with him would be enough to keep her from straying.

As he says in one of his interviews: “good I hope you DO go fuck some guy I hope he has a huge dick and fucks your kidneys loose cause then I can have lingerie pyjama parties with all the younger hotter NEW pussy that I’m voluntarily GIVING UP while you’re with me”

Now the problem with social media is that it gives guys a chance to put on a show PRETENDING that they have all those other attributes because it’s not direct face to face interaction where she would spot flaws easier.

So the guy can put a pic of him surfing with a 6-pack up and talk about how adventurous he is, and she thinks “Wow he must be this decisive alpha go-getter!!” and fills in the blanks herself with positive traits, instead of in person where he asks “so uhhh what do YOU want to eat tonight? How about here? How about here? How about here?” when she thought he would just be this decisive alpha go-getter making decisions for her whisking her away on adventure.

He can put up a pic of him staring into the camera like a confident boss, and that’s what she envisions in all her fantasies about him and when they’re talking over text/internet she pictures him looking her in the eyes like his pic. She doesn’t see that in real life when they meet face to face the guy is nervously glancing around the room and can’t hold eye-contact.

He can promise her the world, how he’s going to commit to her and he just wants to settle down and oh he’d be way better for her than her current boyfriend wow he didn’t take you to Hawaii for your birthday I take all my GFs to Hawaii but I guess when you really love someone you actually do things that show you care etc etc. She doesn’t see until they’re face to face and fuck that that guy pumps & dumps her and doesn’t take her anywhere except to McDonald’s for an Egg McMuffin before only txting her Saturday night at 2am for a booty call which isn’t what she thought she was going to get from him when they talked online.

@NewbieOnPoint
I would start with The Game by Neil Strauss if you haven’t read it yet, just to get you in the mood for the adventure ahead as it’s about a normal guy discovering the PUA community (also ignore the parts about Tyler Durden being an evil villain lol he’s a good dude now that puts out tons of great free content to learn from, and the end is Hollywood gayness). I read it in one night and was like “THIS SOUNDS AWESOME” lol

Modified from my archive:

“These days my Newbie Guide would be this:

– Mystery Method. I prefer the seminar where he teaches it over the PDF eBook of it because I like Mystery’s passion for what he’s teaching, all the vids were on YouTube at some point but now there’s just scraps, here’s one of them to get you started:

I believe that’s from the Mystery Method 5 DVD set which you should be able to torrent easy.

Magic Bullets is an eBook that’s a more brief streamlined explanation of MM if you’re tight for time

– “The Tyler Digest”, google it and read it all

– watch Liam Mcrae’s Rapid Escalation video on YouTube

– watch Richard LaRuina Formula For Night Game on YouTube (specifically 27:00 to 50:00)

– RSDJulien’s SHIFT (internal game/mindsets/beliefs about women, yourself and getting this area handled, torrent it)

– and RSDJulien’s PIMP (external game aka actual technical shit to execute infield, torrent it)

– and if you just want overall social skills building rapport/comfort with people in general (which you can apply with girls or just socializing with everyone you meet and becoming that guy that people immediately feel like they’ve known for years) then check out the Juggler Method PDF

– and at some point give Practical Female Psychology a read, and the free PDF over at Manhood 101 as well, they cover just general over-arching male/female psychology stuff that you’ll want to know for life in general, VS just getting your dick wet ASAP lol

I’d say that’s the most efficient route to get legit fully well-rounded solid pickup skills infield fast and if you can do all that there’s really not much else you’ll need, that stuff is the full set of keys to the kingdom to tear shit up out there. And read The Rational Male of course lol ’cause Rollo covers a lot of overall philosophical Red Pill stuff. And WHEN you start going out, write up your Field Reports even if you don’t show them to anyone, just writing shit down recapping the night helps your brain focus on how you could do better.”

Remember that this is something you learn by gathering and internalizing reference experiences you collect infield. You can study a lot without going out, but you won’t be able to execute it without going out and actually trying to, fucking up, and trying again, until you get better at it. You can read all you want about riding a bike but the first time you get on it you’re gonna fall over or lose your balance or fuck up, and that’s okay. You just try again until you get the hang of it and down the road you’ll be riding with no hands on the handlebars barely thinking about it.

Welcome to the rabbit hole lol

@KrauserGate
lol dude is embarrassing himself on twitter and his blog. Deepak is offering to come to where he is (so zero effort on Krauser’s part) and show him the video in full that Krauser claims is obviously 100% without a doubt fake, like a nice simple offer: you called his infield bullshit fake and he’s offering to show you the full infield unedited. Cut and dry deal.

But Krauser is trying to weasel out of it by changing the terms and demanding a week-long pickup competition and demanding evidence for 30 in 60 to try to distract from his fuckup on the video claim and trying to get him to pickup battle his girlfriend Jabba bla bla all trying to get around the fact that he fucked up and called out a video as fake when it’s looking like it might actually be 100% legit lol It’s so cringy. Deepak nailed this one with his challenge, Krauser must realize by now that the video is probably NOT fake (but can’t take down his big take-down of it and apologize because he’ll look retarded) so he can’t agree to the challenge risking having to take down his blog/vids/etc aka his income, and Deepak has nothing to lose at all because no one gave a shit about him before this. Cocky dude picked the wrong target lol

It’s even better because Torero was caught faking some of his footage red-handed and Krauser says “well whatever he’s still good anyway” so by that logic even if Deepak DID fake that footage (which it doesn’t look like he did), according to the Torero situation it doesn’t matter. Or if one faked infield means all the guy’s footage is fake then Torero must be a complete fake too. Krauser backed himself into a catch-22 cause he spends too much time ragging on other PUA companies instead of just focusing on his own game and product.

Now @gb_hill and I aren’t fans of eachother, but he’s owning Krauser in the comment section. I agree with “there is not much difference between Nick and Tom’s videos and Deepak’s (I think Deepak subcommunicates leadership better and has better breaking rapport tonality).” and “Deepak and Justin’s daygame skill is just better if you understand what game is about: demonstrating male psychosexual strength and dominance through behavioral subcommunications. The words used are secondary. Thus Deepak’s accent is irrelevant to game success and I am shocked that Nick doesn’t realize this.”

And Krauser’s butthurt reply of “YaReally is a clown. You are clown. You are both obsessed with sub-coms and yet can’t even recognise terrible sub-coms. You probably have a caricature concept of alpha and thus can’t see that Deepak looks stiff, awkward and uncertain. K.” just shows why he still hasn’t reached his potential and why he can’t get that a guy like Deepak’s infield might not be fake. The longer Krauser stays caught up in low-value limiting belief mindsets about how much looks matter and how shitty indian guys are and how important words are etc, the longer he’s going to not fully “get” this stuff.

It’s funny because in Daygame Overkill Krauser is SUPER fucking excited about his new “discoveries” that you should have a more sexual vibe and stare her down like a lion that’s about to devour a bunny and speak with breaking rapport tonality etc (compared to his old gay infield footage from years back that even HE says is bad in his Overkill product), like he’s slowly piecing together the differences in subcomm stuff from sheer mass infield experience (which props to him for putting in the work, but if his ego would let him just watch other PUAs explaining subcomms he could shave a ton of time off his learning curve). But he’s clinging to his method and his mindsets and protecting his ego too hard to really experiment with challenging his limiting beliefs out there. And when he DOES finally do it, he’ll be like “guess what everyone I discovered the Krauser Killer Mindset method! It’s actually all about internal game and these Krauser Kommuniciations I’ve discovered and everyone else is ripping off without giving me credit” which will just be the same stuff other PUAs and I have all been talking about for years and what we’re trying to explain to him right now lol

I’m not saying Deepak banged 30 in 60. All I’m saying is that the infield I’ve seen of him doesn’t trigger any more red flags than Krausers or any of the other London guys. The only red flag is how retardedly receptive all the girls are to their approaches, but that just seems to be how things go there with all these guys, which seems like a fucking fantasy playground to play in to me lol And when I see how ridiculously receptive the girls are to these guys’ boring stilted approaches and how the girls are just down to just stop in the middle of their day and listen to them and go on instadates like they have nothing else to do, I don’t think if you’re doing dedicating all day/evening to sarging there that 30/60 would even be THAT difficult lol

A guy can’t say “look how stiff awkward and uncertain Deepak looks in his videos” when his, Tom’s, etc are all just as painfully uncharismatic. And Deepak is literally explaining (in his shitty broken english) subcomms in his latest vids explaining his game and why Krauser can’t see what he’s doing and why his accent etc don’t really matter to the girls (especially to ESL girls who don’t even understand what Krauser is saying half the time, they’re looking at subcomms not the actual words) but Krauser is stuck on “BUT HE’S UGLY AND BROWN!!!!” Like I’ve said, turn the volume down on the infields and you have a tall guy who stands pretty solid without much fidgety movement, has good eye-contact, has a good body, decent style, has a deep breaking-rapport voice tonality, closes the space between them, calibrates when the girls need him to back off, and capitalizes on windows/iois by leading things forward.

I’m not saying Deepak or the Wayne System are amazing or anything, I don’t even know anything about them, I just go by what I’m seeing in the footage and how it aligns with what happens infield and while I don’t think his game is great, in the handful of infields I’ve checked out I don’t see the girls responding in unrealistic ways to what he’s doing. Especially girls that are that naturally friendly/receptive to guys approaching them. And who knows maybe all the infields I haven’t seen are fake, but I sure wouldn’t bet my company on it like Krauser has to lol

@all
Saturday night. Plenty of religious girls out there looking to have sins to confess tomorrow. Practice your subcomms by opening without talking, see how far you can get without saying a word. Get out there and save these girls from their boring lives…otherwise DEEPAK’S GONNA GET YER GURLS lol


YaReally
on September 5th, 2016 at 2:34 pm
Original Link

@Jack-Jack
You got the jist of it, but Rollo will fill in the blanks.

@Klem @gb_hill
Fucking lol I agree completely with the post that got gb_hill banned there. That’s why I lol’ed at the whole controversy…he really doesn’t get that most of those guys all look the same to us. I can’t imagine how you COULDN’T clean up there with pickup skills trained in North America, they all get instant receptiveness. Like wtf obstacles would they run into from there besides a boyfriend here and there?

90% of the time when I watch these guys not get the girl it’s because she throws up a VERY BASIC shit-test or two that should be EASY to pass and the guy drops the ball, gets sucked into her frame, gets into a logical debate, or rejects himself to go find an easier target.

Like she’ll bring up a boyfriend and they’ll dwell on that and ask questions about him and clearly shift gears into “well I guess I’m giving up but I’ll drag this out as long as possible” mode instead of just running some BFDs or ignoring and persisting, changing her mood with some Buying Temp spiking and continuing as if she doesn’t have one…

I RARELY see any of them spiking Buying Temp. The defense is always “oh these are magic special unicorn euro girls, they don’t go for that silly “laughing” and “enjoying the interaction” thing like those ditzy ADD North American girls you have to keep spiking” (meanwhile we have tons of infield from the RSD guys in EE doing this shit because they run bootcamps all around the world (funny how Krauser and crew don’t seem to run their shit outside of the ESL tourist areas…because a lot of it would get raped anywhere else, unless they supplemented it with some traditional/MM/RSD/etc game to make up for their weak spots) and it works just like it does here because surprise surprise girls like having fun interactions…Max ALONE has tons of EE daygame infield) and it’s like no, just have a few things to sprinkle in there to spike her emotions when you need to, like to get past the weak little shit-tests these guys get. “Oh well, I have to work tomorrow” or minor resistance throws half of them off their game completely.

Or they’ll go for the kiss and get denied and actually have a conversation asking her why she won’t kiss them or trying to logically convince them a kiss isn’t a big deal etc etc instead of just backing off, spiking her temp, then trying again, classic oldschool PUA.

They fall into her frame ALL the time…if she says “but I don’t really know you yet” they’ll go into “then ask me some questions, what would you like to know” instead of just brushing past that shit. Like the women dictate the direction of the conversations. The whole vibe is often them trying to convince her and sell themselves and get her to make a logical decision to fuck them…shock and surprise that the success rate on that is low lol

Compare that to Jeffy’s set here, where he takes a girl OFF a better looking younger better dressed AMOG who tries to physcially guard her and tool Jeffy throwing his arm around him:

All Jeffy does is talk to her, he doesn’t even touch her. But he’s spiking her emotions on purpose and every time she BLOWS UP with her emotions spiking, she gets more attracted to him. In the end SHE chooses him and starts touching him etc The London guys pretty much never have the girls going “can I take your number? We should hang out” etc it’s almost always them selling themselves to the girls and pushing for a number that they’re at the most like “okay sure”. Half the time the girls never even ask them what they do or anything, it’s always “Hi, I thought you were cute like a bunny dipped in chocolate, you stood out to my ENGLISH EYES…yes, to my BRITISH EYES (HINT HINT I’M NOT FROM AROUND HERE) I was impressed. BACK HOME we don’t have girls who bla bla” or “Well actually I thought that because I DO X JOB, and WHEN I AM DOING X JOB, I find that girls like you–”

Like they rarely get into real solid A2 and then are shocked that they don’t close very solid and end up with a bunch of LMR to deal with. You shouldn’t BE getting much LMR, because you should be attracting the girl solid enough that she WANTS to fuck you. But if you’re leading her home or on dates with the bare minimum A2 possible then ya, you’re gonna have LMR to deal with.

You never hear the girls taking much interest in the London guys…like Julien’s infield here at 1:12 the girl is showing massive interest in him and demands his number (and he makes her work for it):

Then at 4:45 in that clip he purposely creates some drama and the chick isn’t hot but look how far he takes it, just spiking her emotions and creating MASSIVE investment from her. Like when do you ever see the London guys threatening to walk away from the girl and she’s demanding he stays and trying to keep him there? This is what massive A2 looks like. At 8:03 in that vid he describes stacking devalidations and forcing her to chase/invest and challenging her, which sucks her in…are any of these girls going to flake or let him go? No because he’s making massive emotional impact on them. The cougar at the end has her entire world turned upside-down by him just taking her on an emotional rollercoaster ride.

Here’s Max pulling WITHOUT SPEAKING. Doesn’t say a single word to the girl, and Krauser is tripping out that Deepak’s English is bad, to girls who are ESL themselves?? lol Deepak’s accent is naturally breaking rapport tonality, regardless of the words he’s saying. I can say “Where’s? the coffee shop?πŸ™‚ :)” in seeking rapport tonality or I can say “Where’s the coffee shop.” in breaking rapport tonality like it’s a command or accusation almost. The actual words don’t matter, the girls focus on the tonality (after the first infield snippet, jump to around 9:45 to skip his mindset rant):

Note all the investment he gets her to do, he makes her come over to him instead of going over to her. Then he escalates physically. Then he leads her to another area (again compliance, investment, compliance, investment). He just keeps leading her around into another venue and through a dance floor etc JUST to see how far he can take it without saying a single word to her. Better game would have been to have an actual interaction with her, but THIS is why the RSD guys are killing it in terms of expanding the knowledge-base of how Attraction and social dynamics work…because they do stuff like this instead of playing it safe.

Then he tries to just lead her right out the venue, all without saying a word. But she FINALLY gives some resistance, so he calibrates and responds to it, but is determined to do it WITHOUT talking…is that the safest play? No, of course not, but he wants to see how far he can push the “you need clever verbals” “you need good english” “you need the right accent” limiting beliefs to try to break them. Max could have the shittiest voice in the world but this girl doesn’t know or care, because his subcomms are talking for him.

Does he handle it by debating her with logic getting stumped like the London guys? No he just changes her mood not her mind by spiking her buying temp and then uses the standard “2 minutes” to false time constraint to remove her objections. This would have thrown off half the London guys I’ve seen, they’d get into some logical debate about “well now don’t you think you should embrace adventure, what is it that’s holding you back from bla bla” when you can just brush this shit off so much easier.

Determined to stick to not talking, he uses typing on his phone to communicate (lol there’s NO REASON TO DO THIS except that he has abundance because he goes out a lot and gets laid and can fuck around like this to see what happens), and then she resists AGAIN saying “my friends” ’cause she ditched her friends to follow his lead just based off his subcomms (also he’s shorter than her and she’s not even in heels, and he’s dressed in shorts, no fancy custom fitted suit or skull rings and necklaces).

Half the London guys would just try to number close here instead, like oh she said she can’t leave her friends WELL I GUESS THAT’S THE WAY IT IS THEN OH WELL and let her dictate the frame and fall into it.

Max knows she needs reassurance/comfort, but he’s sticking to his not saying anything rule, and just types a mood-changing line into his phone (“wow the BEST view in vegas?? okay!!”) and she’s suddenly cool with leaving her friends lol He didn’t get into some logical debate, he didn’t fall into her frame and go back for the friends, he just plows the shit-test.

At 15:50 he says “the question to ask yourself is WHY does this work? The reason this is working is because of my microexpressions (aka his name for subcomms)…the way I breath (relaxed, not worried, assuming success), the way I walk (confident, leading, assuming she’ll follow), the way I hold her hands (comfortable, leading, dominant, etc), these are the tiny little subtleties.”

Then he hits the lineup for the cabs. Uhoh, plenty of time for the magic spell to break and for her to start getting ASD and LMR and Buyer’s Remorse and shit…but he KNOWS that, because he’s pushed sets fast before and dealt with those things and knows how to handle them VS just trying to look for the easy “Yes” girls walking around by themselves with nothing to do but go home with random guys.

Knowing that this is the make or break moment in a set like this, he just bribes the cab guy to give them the cab so he doesn’t have to risk any state-breaks.

He has to type his destination for the cabbie, when there’s NO REASON TO DO SO at this point lol but he just wants to see if he can do it. Note that she hasn’t even asked him why he’s not speaking or anything…she’s just going on a fun adventure. Then he describes dealing with the LMR (without speaking) etc from there.

The point is these guys (and traditional PUAs in general) challenge themselves and push their limiting beliefs. That’s why we watch the Euro footage and are puzzled that these guys don’t have a 100% success rate out there…but then you watch them getting tripped up by easy tests and minor resistance and doing weak number closes or not leading when the window is there and it’s like oh okay well THAT’S why.

Here, Julien eats shit for like 5 minutes (from a girl who’s talking to 2 guys, a set the London guys would never approach), getting the full bitch-shield ice-cold shoulder from this girl who’s obviously a “no girl”:

But he just keeps deflecting shit-tests and plowing and devalidating/negging and trusting that she’ll crack until the very end where she finally opens up and shows interest in him and he can go into rapport etc like a normal set. And guess how much more value a hot girl puts on a guy who can overcome her defenses because he just assumes success? What does that subcommunicate about the type of success that guy must have with women?

Max has to open this girl a bunch of times to get her to finally stop for him but blows through her shit-tests and gets an instadate:

Deepak’s critiques of Krauser are pretty accurate, Krauser would never last more than a few seconds with this girl and wouldn’t approach her to begin with because she’s with 2 guys…and he’ll say “oh she’s ugly” or “oh she’s hammered” even though she’s clearly not some sloppy drunk chick just like tons of girls in clubs aren’t (the hotter the girl the less they drink usually, because they don’t want to embarrass themselves ’cause they know everyone is watching them…when a guy says “oh all club girls are drunk sluts” it’s because the only thing they’ve pulled from clubs are wasted 6s, they don’t even APPROACH the hot girls ’cause the hot girls aren’t standing around by themselves they’re in groups or mixed sets so guys don’t even realize those girls don’t drink much or sometimes at ALL), so then he’ll throw out “well he doesn’t show the rest of the interaction so all of this is discredited” when you can find tons of other footage taking shit further but the point of this footage is just to show the concept of breaking through bitch-shields, and quite frankly if you have a girl in a cab with you and you have ANY kind of game you shouldn’t have a problem getting her home and getting past a little LMR or at the WORST be able to lay her on the next hangout.

Krauser avoids challenging sets which means he won’t fully understand chick psychology because he’s only really dealing with the friendly receptive girls who don’t throw shit-tests at him. Again no idea if Deepak is legit but as a minority dude with broken english he’ll have had to deal with way more shit-tests than Krauser, just like ugly Tyler had to, just like I have to when I mack girls dressed better than me etc

So when we see the London guys gaming these SUPER friendly girls who are IMMEDIATELY down to just stand around and chat with a stranger and dump their personal details and life story off the word hello, and see these guys getting tripped up by the most basic shit-tests in the world, it’s like, all your footage looks about the same skill level.

Someone posted some Torrero footage in the thread as an example of charisma and it’s like lol wtf are you guys serious?? Torrero is a fucking snooze-fest. Every instructor I posted up above has 100x the charisma in set of Torrero and Krauser combined lol

Here’s Madison going on a daytime instadate with a model, dressed like a bum from the gym…listen to how much she’s laughing and having fun and qualifying herself and going back and forth with him compared to a Torrero ESL snoozefest day2:

And ya you don’t HAVE to spike the girls temp the whole time to get laid and if you do it too much you go into dancing monkey territory. But 1) being fun is part of being a charismatic person that people laugh and enjoy being around, and 2) if you don’t know how to do it at ALL and you don’t know how to get girls to invest in the interaction harder and chase you and ask for YOUR number and ask YOU to hang out again, like, you’re not some PUA master. You’re just a dude who’s a level above the average guy which makes their arguing over who’s real and who’s fake look silly because they ALL look pretty weak.

It’s also surreal to hear them talk about masculinity and then see them do that prancing half-circle frolic to open girls lol Compare that to Julien or Tyler or Max where they just COMMAND the girl to stop with dominant masculine tonality, even in the daytime, or calibrate and walk with her until she hooks and then stop her, or confidently use the Hand of God, etc

I’m not saying their game is bad, it’s just REALLY basic and not equipped to handle any real resistance or shit-tests. Which is probably why they game in huge tourist spots where there’s tons of friendly receptive girls with nothing to do walking around aimlessly…there’s a lot better odds that some of those girls are going to be “Yes” girls or easy “Maybe” girls.

You don’t get jacked by lifting small weights. Simple as that. The guys over here are lifting huge and we’re seeing guys lifting a quarter of what we lift squabbling over who’s stronger. It’s silly and gb_hill nailed it in his post. Krauser’s butthurt ego having to BAN him for just critiquing his skills shows where his inner game is at.

I legitimately hope that Krauser mellows out and starts looking around to learn more and learn faster…he’s like a guy heavily dedicated to one martial art that’s really only applicable in a few specific scenarios and who refuses to study other arts and go the MMA route of learning from other sources and combining shit to fill in his weak spots. So his game will always be limited and he’ll always be coming from the struggling underdog frame and have to slowly discover things himself through sheer hours infield.


YaReally
on September 5th, 2016 at 7:50 pm
Original Link

@gb_hill
“I’ve gone through something of a paradigm change lately regarding game. I’ve actually come around further to your way of thinking believe it or not. Due to my own experiences in the field (and in life in general) I’ve seen the power of behavioral confidence; ie “subcomms”.”

I believe it because everyone who goes infield and pushes themselves enough comes to the same conclusions. I didn’t just make this stuff up, or parrot whatever Tyler says. My buddies and I have gone infield and fucked with this stuff a shitload, my wingmen are all usually better looking than me, richer than me, etc but I generally have better subcomms than them because they haven’t been studying game as long (or are Naturals and I can use their blindspots against them).

There’s a video in Julien’s TenGame product of “Julien VS Tyler” which is amazing. Julien and Tyler fully demonstrate the “0.0001% cooler (less reactive, better subcomms, etc)” thing that nobody believes me about (because they don’t go test this). Julien and Tyler have a game where they purposely try to take eachother’s girls. So Tyler will be 10 min into isolation with a girl about to make out and then Julien will come in and just grab the girl’s face and make out with her, or Julien will have a girl on him and then Tyler comes in and barrages her with buying temp spiking stuff and take over her RAS. They purposely try to push eachother into their heads and into a reactive state because whichever guy is reacting more is lower-value and indicating to the girl (through the subcomms she’s reading) that the other guy is higher-value.

So you’ll see Julien just walk by and look at the girl or poke Tyler in the side and Tyler overreacts and goes “Ignore him, don’t look at him, that’s just Julien ignore him” and he’ll physcially lift the girl and carry her away but she’ll look back at Julien and try to get Tyler to let go over her so she can interact with this guy that, because Tyler reacted to him, must be higher-value (since she pings off her environment and what you feel she feels). If Tyler could stay unreactive, she wouldn’t care…but it’s Tyler’s subcomms that give Julien his value to the girl that moments ago was into Tyler.

And the same thing happens in reverse. When Tyler comes in with high emotional impact material, Julien gets shoved in his head and falls into reacting to what Tyler’s doing/saying and the girl reads that and suddenly Tyler is the new shiny object.

The funniest part is they do it when the other guy actually LIKES the girl, because that’s when they’re the weakest and most reactive…like Tyler is ice cold until he’s actually INTO the girl and starts getting attached to the outcome and then that’s when Julien just comes in and grabs her face and makes out with her, obnoxiously long, while punching Tyler in the chest to rub it in as Tyler’s soul is crushed lol

But how many guys will go out and do stuff like that to test this shit? How many guys will look for a better looking wingman than them instead of finding someone about their looks-range or lower? How many guys will compete with an AMOG for the girl when he enters their set instead of just backing off and letting him have her because she showed him a few IOIs and he got discouraged or didn’t have the skillset to get her RAS back? How many guys will try picking up girl without saying anything?

How many guys will purposely sabotage a set just to practice recovering and turning a blown set around?:

Look at the fucking crazy shit Tyler does at 2:10:

The chick doesn’t want to stop but he forces her to and then picks her up and carries her because he knows “she has to go this way ’cause her friends won’t let me keep her in one spot”. He spikes her emotions a bunch as he carries her to her car (she’s the designated driver, so she’s sober not some drunk wasted club slut like the London guys will say) and then GETS IN THE PASSENGER SEAT. Like, just to push the limit and because he knows she and her friends like him enough to let him do it.

And the classic Julien stealing his student’s girl (his student got far enough with her to escort her out of the club and interact outside), to demonstrate to him that the girl is READY to go and he’s not pulling the trigger, he’s trying to do a nice safe number close like the London guys do the second they get any resistance, but Julien just enters the set, spikes her temperature, and then leads her away (don’t worry, he gives her back once they get down the street lol):

When do you EVER see these London guys making a girl’s Buying Temp spike like that? Like, it’s so rare to see them get any real A2 in their interactions. And this is some Euro chick, because they teach bootcamps everywhere, because girls are girls. This girl completely forgets the other guy exists, Julien is the full focus of her RAS and he uses emotional spikes to lead her into isolation where he can run Comfort/Rapport. He cuts her threads, he leads the conversation, he doesn’t let her direct the conversation, etc

The London dayguys have incredibly passive game, because they focus on lone targets and avoid AMOGs and let the girl dictate the interaction and shit. Put any of them in a set with Tyler or Julien or Max or Jeffy etc and they’ll be invisible to the girl and won’t know how to get her RAS focused on them again.

“I’ve also seen that unless moderated, both an alt-right and a Manospherean worldview can be really corrosive and life diminishing. It can make you miserable and gives little upside. (Although it might get you a Twitter following.)”

lol ya Tyler refers to it as “low-vibration frequency” which comes from some book or self-help woowoo guy that I can’t remember the name of, but like, it’s just being stuck in this shitty negative mentality. It’s ALL OVER the Manosphere and it’s one of the reasons PUAs don’t really give a shit about the Manosphere. Krauser is having this big blow-up with Deepak but go on the TRP reddit forums…no one gives a shit or is talking about it. No one on the RSD forums or Sedfast is talking about it. Even the RVF forums aren’t talking about it. Like it’s so retarded and such a waste of energy that nobody cares (except me because I think it’s funny lol). They have better things to do and focus their mental energy on.

“And that is exactly where Nick’s headspace is at. He is a mediocre daygamer with a niche following. I now realize that his CH inspired view of women is overly dark and leads to shitty internals”

It just radiates from everything he does. Same as Roosh. There’s a point where you have to ask yourself “do these guys seem HAPPY with life, in general? Is this the mindset I want to emulate?” Meanwhile on the flip side you have the RSD guys pushing all sorts of positive mindsets and recommending reading and other self-help people to check out and shit. Tyler will never write an article about how Krauser’s videos are fake because that kind of low-vibration stuff is beneath him. He would just feel bad for both Krauser AND Deepak. And he used to BE just like them, he was a shitty low-vibration negative dude himself, but he worked on his mindsets and he spent enough time getting success in the field to get out of that and into a high-vibration mindset.

“(I wonder why the far healthier Steve Jabba even likes him).”

No idea, but Jabba’s challenge is retarded to begin with. Krauser said Deepak’s video is obviously fake and listed a bunch of reaching arguments for why, and Deepak is offering to show that Krauser’s analysis was wrong. Cut and dry. Now Jabba and Krauser are trying to change it into “well you have to do a live pickup battle and you have to prove the 30/60” etc because they know Deepak can show the footage and show that analysis was wrong. Deepak doesn’t have to prove shit about the 30/60, let’s say it IS a lie, that doesn’t change that that footage Krauser “debunked” may actually be 100% legit and for a guy who makes it such a habit to call out all the fakes and frauds and then can’t even tell when his own buddy Torrero fakes footage and let’s Torrero off with a pass for the rest of his videos, it’s a weird thing to get hung up on.

He could just watch the footage and go “ok I was wrong, that infield is real, but the 30/60 is still a lie”, but Deepak raised the stakes to “if you’re wrong about my infield then delete your company” and Krauser can’t do that lol Smart play on Deepak’s part.

“His game is also just a more polished version of Paul Janka’s mass approach daygame”

The funniest part to me was Krauser calling Deepak’s game garbage when Deepak is saying almost LITERALLY the exact same things Krauser says. Deepak does the toe point thing and Krauser makes fun of it when he does the same shit in all his infield and even talks about it in his Overkill product lol Like wtf?? You are calling someone out for running almost exactly the same game you’re running.

“If Nick was running game in NYC he’d struggle.”

That’s why he doesn’t leave EE. Meanwhile the RSD guys travel and fill bootcamps everywhere. Would their bootcamps fill if they couldn’t take guys out infield and run this shit on girls in their country?

That said, as I’ve said before I don’t actually have a problem with specialized game…like it’s cool that Krauser has a specific method for guys in his specific environment (even if I think that game could be tightened up). That’s fine, as long as guys buying his product know that it’s going to be a limited part of the PUA skillset. Like they’re going to get pretty good at maybe 1/3rd of the skillset and not know how to handle the rest, and guys in North America are going to struggle to get it to hit depending on where they live.

“(And those idiots at his website think that NYC girls are fat and ugly. Right, there are no beautiful European or other foreign women who ever go to New York…)”

It’s interesting to me that they’ve managed to fully demonize “North American game” as this thing that everyone following them should avoid even looking at. Like, they’ve fully duped everyone into thinking EE girls are totally different from American girls and that “American game” won’t work on them and shit. And the guys believe it because they want to.

Like, you can’t find “hot thin girls” at a Vegas pool party because Americans are all fat? Girls don’t travel from around the world to go to major American cities? Hell, even in most mediocre cities if you hit the right venues you’ll find smokin hot girls. Of course if you show guys like him he’ll just say they’re all shallow retarded dumb ditzy bimbo sluts etc etc Meanwhile you can show him a hot American virgin chick who’s in school for medicine or whatever and he’ll just make up some other shit to disqualify them on.

Guys who think every girl in America is fat are guys who are gaming at the local no dress code no cover general population pubs and clubs.

European tourist destinations have more hot girls in them than the average American city I’m sure, but so does Vegas. Compare the girls in an average American city with the girls in like, London, and America probably comes out on top (for the teeth ALONE lol). Like you can’t compare a tourist hotspot with average cities elsewhere. That’s like saying Vegas has hotter girls than London. No shit lol

“I stand by what I said in Krauser’s comments section, Justin Wayne showcases better skill than any Euro guy.”

I don’t know anything about him but a guy in that comment section pointed out the changed tanktop for the girl in that one vid they posted and that needs explanation from Justin ’cause that’s lookin like some bullshit. The accusations on Deepak’s videos are retarded (oh she didn’t tongue-down a foreign dude in public MUST BE FAKE lol oh the cameraman teleported even though there’s an obvious cut (with a speech balloon to explain what happened during the cut, it’s not supposed to be hidden at all) that the cameraman changed spots during MUST BE FAKE).

Justin Wayne definitely has a happier vibe lol But I can’t say either way on him ’cause I don’t care enough to look into his shit and I don’t do the “guilt by assosciation” thing Krauser is going on (just like feminists and shit…”Justin is a fake and look who Deepak is modelling!!!” ya ok Krauser, Torrero faked his shit so does that mean your infield is fake too? Of course not).

“And the entire group of Euro daygamers are all at the same level. None of them make the type of impact that RSD guys make in their sets. That recent Jeffy clip is a great example. No LDM guy is capable of that.”

Yup. Like of all the people they post to represent “charisma” infield they post TORRERO?? On the most awkward boring Day2 in the world?? Jeffy is putting in MINIMAL effort, saying just a few things that are blowing the girl’s attraction through the roof to where she’s chasing him. Same with Julien in those vids I posted where he’s got the girls qualifying themselves to him and asking for his number and shit. Ugly-ass Tyler’s got girls calling him hot and saying they love him in their initial interaction and trying to number-close HIM (in his “picks up an alpha female” vid the girl wants to ditch her own MOM to go home with him lol)

I’d love to see some infield from any of the LDM guys getting that kind of A2. But all I ever see is them getting the bare minimum A2 to convince her to give them their number (often with tons of resistance or a totally asexual friend zone number, that might pan out in EE but would be a 100% flake in America) and then a bunch of ranting about how much of a grind the game is. You wouldn’t have such low conversion rates and high LMR if you were making more of an impact on her, if she was chasing you, if you were passing shit-tests instead of getting stuck on them or hoping to avoid him (hint, you WANT shit-tests, shit-tests are a chance to DHV hard and spike her attraction for you and get MORE A2), if you were properly time-bridging, etc

It’s weird to me because I don’t run a pickup company or anything (I mean, except for RSD because I’m obviously Tyler lol) so I can’t relate to the mindset of “come up with a formula and then just stick to it no matter what and refuse to look at anything else from anyone else except other guys running that same formula and reject bash demonize and cry foul over anything that isn’t that formula to try to keep my followers from looking at it or trying anything that isn’t my formula (and contributes to my income)”. Because to me it’s just about getting as good as possible out there…some day I’ll buy Krauser’s Daygame book to read just to see if there’s anything I can get from it that hasn’t already been covered elsewhere. I’ll probably skim Roosh’s BANG book. I don’t care, whatever helps give me an edge. If something doesn’t hold up infield then it’s discarded…if it holds up then it’s tested until it’s understood fully and can be taught to other guys.

“Deepak may or may not have hit the numbers he says, but Krauser and gang are fucked in the head if they think they are above him in skill (and even further fucked in the head if they think they represent the epitome of charisma lol).”

lol I don’t LIKE to talk smack, but like, as a legitimate honest critique of what I’ve seen of their infield as a whole, and literally for their OWN improvement as a community, I really think they need to check out what the RSD guys have been doing the last few years…even just Julien’s external-game PIMP product would give them SO MUCH FIREPOWER.

Even fucking Valentino Kohen (RSDAlex’s student, the key part is at 2:30 in this vid but I recommend watching the whole thing from the clever open):

He enters this set with a guy who’s taller, better looking, better dressed, already physical with the girl, and does practically NOTHING except react LESS to the guy than the guy reacts to him and care LESS about getting the girl (even telling her to GO with the guy a few times).

And he gets so much A2 so fast that the other guy physically carries her off and she refuses to go with him and goes back to Valentino, because the other guy is reacting to Valentino which is telling her that he’s higher value than him (aka subcomms).

I’ve never seen infield from the LDM guys where they have these levels of attraction. And it would be SO SIMPLE for them to tweak their game and amp it up just slightly. Combine it with the MASSIVE receptivity of the Euro girls and these guys could be dominating with some of the most insane conversion rates anyone has ever seen.

But it’s more important to create that little bubble of “these girls are special, the way we do it is special, we don’t need to see what those OUTSIDERS do with their OUTSIDER women, they’re just dancing monkeys banging drunk stupid American fatties)”

It’s really surprising to see that none of them steps up and takes over their scene out there by learning some basic “make her chase you” shit from something like PIMP. I mean, I can link this FREE VIDEO RIGHT HERE:

And will ANY of them watch it? A fucking 10 minute video sitting RIGHT HERE for anyone to watch, that would help give them a HUGE edge over everyone else in their scene. Is it a crabs willingly staying in the bucket thing? No one wants to be the tall poppy that gets cut and has to suddenly prove that they’re getting better results than the other LDM guys are getting? So just stick to the same weak shit? Julien literally breaks down the basics of making her chase right here, and this is shit I never see any of the LDM guys doing (or they do the absolute lightest version of it).

That was the biggest thing I took from Daygame Overkill when Krauser sent it to me to review it and see his newer infield footage (which is definitely better than his old shitty infield that’s on YouTube and I don’t get why he doesn’t put up some of these new infield breakdowns from Overkill that actually make his skills look decent (since he’s obviously out recording all the time to where if he got 30/60 he’d have infield of every single girl from start to finish since that’s what he expects from Deepak, he must have TONS of new footage he could put up that show his game better)). I put off writing a review on it because I didn’t even want to write a review, I wanted to write a “where Krauser’s game could be improved” thing with specific links to vids/writing from other PUAs that would help tighten his game up and help him improve his results.

But you got banned and even mentioning me gets a “YAREALLY IS A DOODY-HEAD WHO SWALLOWED THE RSD KOOLAID AND DOESN’T EVEN KNOW WHAT SUBCOMMS LOOKS LIKEZ!!!” so it’s like okay I won’t waste my time then ’cause he’s clearly not looking to get better except the long slow hard way by stumbling across stuff infield that he could’ve learned in 1/1000th the time by letting go of his ego lol Goes back to the $1.50 in late charges Good Will Hunting thing.

“Ya, you’re actually trying to do something very worthwhile: to take the best elements of Manospherean socio-sexual thought (hypergamy, SMV, etc) and combine it with the best insights of the PUA community.”

I love PUA but the reality is that they don’t fully understand/teach about a lot of SOCIETAL dynamics going on. Like Tyler probably couldn’t tell you anything about the issues MRAs talk about. He probably has no idea what’s going on on college campuses or social programming in Amy Schumer movies and shit because that’s not stuff that’s on his radar. And the PUA community doesn’t fully understand Hypergamy/Solipsism which is dangerous because they tend to have the belief that as long as you stay high-value your girl won’t leave you, but that doesn’t take into account that you have to balance Lover AND Provider to keep them long-term and it doesn’t really take stuff like “what will her friends say about her settling with you” or “how will your attractiveness be handicapped if you legally marry” etc which the other spheres teach.

TRP on reddit has tried to get more of a balance between pickup and understanding this MRA/Manosphere/MGTOW stuff, but they’re a bunch of young dudes fully bought into the looks/money matter paradigm so they’ll always be limited because they’ll always be working from that frame and dismiss anyone who brings up counter-points. They’re busy looking at “this girl swiped right on all the guys with 6-pack abs so GET A 6-PACK GUISE!!!” and will never really get to that next level of understanding subcomms and shit. And as I’ve said before, half of the stuff they’re “discovering” is just stuff that was already in the old material. But they’re finding it the hard way infield just like Krauser is because they don’t look at the shit that would just lay it out for them to learn today.

“The end goal is the up-to-date, state-of-the-art, ultimate potency understanding of both female sexual psychology and human courtship methodology possible to man. Not a small thing…”

Ideally ya. That’s why I brought up the “how do we help guys keep 2016 girls around long enough to raise kids” stuff in the last thread. This is the only community that would really give a shit about that or understands enough of the dynamics to start making guesses and theories to test out.

In the end I just want guys to have the best clear understanding of the world around them so they can adapt to it and prosper in it. Not just the guys around me, not just guys in my generation, but guys in future generations who read this shit and hopefully can figure out how to adapt this stuff to the changes in their future societies.

I don’t care who’s dick is bigger or who gets more girls or what…all I care about is expanding the knowledge-base with accurate field-tested shit, not keyboard theory, and being able to teach guys the core diamond consistent principles of how all this shit works.

“So my kudos to you and HABD and Sentient. Whatever your differences you guys are “figuring shit out” and offering truly solid info. Even better then the best posters over at SedFast; although you’ve got a few guys there that also know what they are talking about (ThinMan, PureEvil, Skills360, etc).”

Nothing but love for Sedfast and most of the gang there. They’re trying to do what the old mASF forum (which was the ultimate PUA forum at the prime time when we were fully testing everything out, that shit was an epic resource) did in terms of general community vibe. But the reality is most new guys to the community don’t even read the old material. They aren’t reading the Tyler Digest, they aren’t watching and field-testing Mystery Method, etc so they’re working from a foundation that’s missing a few pillars to begin with. The best posters there are usually the guys who have a deep understanding of the old shit.

I make fun of Krauser because he takes himself too seriously, and I like some of the LDM guys (like James Marshall is a great example of gaming with low intense energy and Liam Mcrae’s Rapid Escalation and Voice Power vids are epic fucking resources that every guy needs to watch, LaRuina has always seemed like a decent dude and his demo of laser eye-contact and creating sexual tension without words or touch in that Nightgame vid of his I always link is a perfect demo that again every guy needs to watch)…but at the end of the day I really do just want all these guys to reach their potential game skills. Hell I’d even love to see ROOSH learn some tighter game and have more fun out there. But Krauser himself is just not in a headspace to get past his own limiting beliefs and restraints.

@redlight
“gb on a hill, Ya who is always fucking right – I’ve been running increased emphasis on subcomms and it is the bomb. You could actually say random words and it works. I can’t describe it to convince.”

lol no one fucking believes me until they finally go out in the field and test it themselves and then it’s like “oh, I guess YaReally ISN’T a fucking retard just making shit up” lol

It’s not like I knew this shit from day one, *I* wouldn’t have believed it EITHER back when I started. But in the old community we ALWAYS field tested shit, just like that Max vid I linked where he pulls the girl without saying a word, or Tyler getting in the passenger seat of that car, and when I had good-looking wingmen (especially ones with good game (which was rare)), I had to step up my subcomm game to hold my own in set (or even take the girls at times). I wasn’t growing taller, I wasn’t getting more jacked, I wasn’t checking the time on an expensive watch to flash how rich I suddenly was, I wasn’t even saying “wittier” lines or routines, I was just focusing on making more emotional impact on them so they COULDN’T ignore me, using better breaking rapport tonality, qualifying harder, pushing them through more emotions, cutting space, lasering better, leading more assertively/confidently, learning to make other guys react to me, learning to not react to other guys, self-amusing more, etc

’cause the field reveals all. Field is king.

That’s why it tells me exactly where Krauser’s game is when he focuses so much on Deepak’s broken English accent. It says that he still focuses too much on the actual words being said and thinks those are what build attraction so any guy with a broken shitty accent like that couldn’t be getting attraction. But as I’ve said repeatedly, if you just focus on the sounds themselves coming out of Deepak’s throat, 1) he has a deep voice, 2) his accent is very breaking-rapport commanding tonality.

Hell, that breaking-rapport tonality is WHY we all wince when we hear harsh Indian accents…because we put our tonality on the overall sentence, or toward the end of the sentence, like someone? doing up-talk? It’s the last word? That goes up? Or we break raPORT. With harsh tonaliTY. Where most of the sentence is monoTONE. And then goes down at the END. License and registraTION. Sir have you been DRINKING. How much have you had to drink toNIGHT.

Whereas this Apu accent is like breaking rapport all over the fucking place randomly lol THIS. IS-n’t A. lenDING. LIbraRY. That sounds fucked up to us and even sounds aggressive/hostile especially with the default brown-guy non-smiling face, but a girl who’s ESL to begin with and can’t even understand half of what Krauser’s with his fluid english is saying is just hearing a ton of breaking rapport tonality and every sentence ending with that hard breaking rapport commanding sound.

Now again I don’t know if Deepak is legit or not, but I don’t see a reason his voice would hold him back with the girls he’s hitting on. It’s weird to me that Krauser, who’s out there where he encounters tons of different languages and MUST have had sets where he can’t communicate well with the girl, wouldn’t understand this stuff and have experience with it. But if he’s sticking to his method and not pushing the boundaries, well there you go. Self-imposed limitations.

If I was teaching Krauser and saw him saying that shit about accents I would make him go infield and use a broken English Indian accent and/or say nonsense words to girls for a few months until he’s able to pull despite it. It would take away his crutches and force him to focus more on his subcomms which he already LOVES the result of focusing on (he’s so much happier having a more sexual badboy vibe in his newer infield compared to his old, but I don’t think he realizes how much of that is just subcomms or how much more he could do with his subcomms on top of that). But he’s too ego-invested.


YaReally
on September 5th, 2016 at 9:14 pm
Original Link

@stringerbell
Here’s a big one, and this is for any guy working on his text game.

“I’ve found myself trying to follow your advice of always leading and pushing either for sexual innuendo or a meetup has lead to me overgaming and some text blowouts. When I’m more subtle it goes way better”

Gotta learn to calibrate. Same as infield…you don’t push hard enough and you get friendzoned, you push too hard and you get blown out. But post your txts and we can break them down and see where you’re miscalibrating.

Also texting has gotten tougher in the last couple years with the whole Tinder situation. I used to be able to do a 30 second number close in person and then run my entire game over txt and have her show up at my door ready to bang, but now that EVERY guy is feeding her validation 24/7 I’m finding it’s better to just keep it streamlined and focus on getting her out to game in-person, which means running more solid game in the initial meet including tighter Time Bridges on the number close, and not getting stuck in hours-long text sessions where she gets validation from the texts themselves like all the other guys…I push more for actually meeting up again and ideally within 48 hours of getting the number, before my value gets lost in the sea of virtual orbiters that’ll be bombarding her phone.

“It’d be fucking amazing if you could post actual text examples from your texts with girls because I’m clearly uncalibrated and some actual examples would go a really long way to helping me learn.”

Too much chance of girls googling snippets from our conversations to post actual conversations ’cause a lot of the time they can’t believe I have all these one-liners and comebacks and might check to see if they’re from the internet (like when a buddy tells you a good joke and it’s a joke you saw on reddit last week lol). And my humor is all custom-tailored to my personality where the actual words I’m saying are things that other guys would get blown out with or miscalibrate or not be able to recover from if the girl doesn’t react well but the underlying structure itself of what I’m doing is the important part, which is what I look at when I look at guys’ text conversations.

“HB7: Seriously? The last message was creepy
SB: Meh it should be pretty clear by now that me sense of humor is super weird. I thought it was hilarious.
HB7: Sorry I don’t think we are on the same page here, I’m not interested.”

lolololol about to get into some deep technical shit here:

This is what was happening to me last year and what forced me to really look at the changes going on in society. Because my txt game was TIIIIGHT as fuck for a lot of years. Like, it was epic shit and I would say similar stuff to what you said (all your texts in this interaction were fine, that shit would have slayed a few years ago), and I had an unreal conversion rate. If I could get a girl’s number I was probably going to bang her off my txt game.

But suddenly I started getting all these girls that would drop out of the conversation randomly and started getting called creepy and shit. And I was like “wtf?? You know I’m joking right?” Like these were girls that IN PERSON in our initial interaction I would be sarcastic and make jokes about stalkers and shit, and they would too, like we had a FULL ON “don’t take what I say seriously” vibe going and I’d get a solid number…and then a few days later (because I wasn’t pushing for that 48hr window at that point, ’cause I didn’t have to before, I could txt a girl for a couple weeks and then have her over to bang as the Day2) I would txt with the EXACT SAME style of humor she LOVED in person and she would suddenly take EVERY WORD I SAID SERIOUSLY and rule me out as creepy and stalker and TOO dominant etc

I was like wtf is going on here???? It was a noticable change, the reason I focused on it was because I went through a huge run of numbers in a row that this happened with. Even my buddy who knows my txt game is solid, I’d send him the convos and he was like “wtf is happening??” lol

My theory on what’s happening is that a few years ago Tinder/social media/etc culture wasn’t as huge as it is now, like girls had orbiters and shit but they didn’t have literally 500 guys (tons of them ending up being creepy as fuck and losers etc) txting them.

So what I think what they’re instinctively doing is just ruling out any guy who not even TRIPS a red flag, but COULD BE INTERPRETED AS tripping a red flag. It’s like they have so many experiences with guys that DO turn out to be shit and who really DO turn out to be creepy or uncalibrated or too aggressive etc, that, combined with the VAST ENDLESS OPTIONS they have available, they’ve found that it’s easier to just assume the WORST and rule the guy out because they can move onto the next one so easily.

Like in the past, especially before Smartphones were huge, they WANTED you to be cool, because they only had a handful of options and you might legitimately be the only guy who got their number that weekend. So you could say shit and they would interpret it in the most positive way. Like you could joke “oh ya you got me I was totally planning to roofie you” and they would interpret that as “lol he’s just being silly!” because they wanted it to go well.

But NOW they’ll see that and go “well, he MIGHT be kidding, but he might NOT, and I have 50000 other options and it’s been past 48 hours and I’ve already forgotten the fun we had that night we met because I’ve had so much stimulus and drama and shit pumped into my brain since a week ago when we met, so instead of finding out if he’s kidding or not, I’m just going to blow him out and move onto the next guy who hasn’t said anything that could remotely be interpreted in a negative way yet”

Like, if I gave you two boxes and one of them had a 50% chance of blowing up when you opened it and you had no reason to assume the other box had ANY chance of blowing up (because it hasn’t said anything that COULD mean it’ll blow up), you would probably go “ehh, I’ll take my chances with the other box because I don’t want to find out if this 50% box is going to blow me up”

It was a pretty rough realization because I’ve had to throw out most of my txt game…and I LIKED txt game lol it was such minimal effort on my part (time consuming but I could juggle convos with multiple girls while laying in bed). So I lost a huge pillar of my game and had to adapt.

With that understanding of what’s probably going on, I started looking around for other guys running into this and noticed other guys were running into similar situations and had some answers. The biggest puzzle piece was Julien’s PIMP product where he basically laid it all out: quit trying to game over txt, just do the bare minimum and push to get them to meet up within 48 hours, and run tighter number-closes (with hardcore Time Bridges like he explains etc) I suspect he was running into the same problems but he gets more field experience so he figured it out faster.

Ironically this just goes back to Mystery Method where the number close wasn’t a GOAL, it was only a tool to meet up again to go on the Day2 that you SOLIDLY Time Bridged in person to arrange. But when cell phones got popular, number closes became a goal for a lot of guys. But I think we’re at a point where we have to go back to the old mindsets.

It sucks because I loved txt game, but you gotta adapt.

The key thing was realizing “hmmm they’re all interpreting everything I say in the WORST possible way, almost TRYING to find a reason to blow me out, just to have one less guy to deal with because they have a million guys txting them and SO MUCH TO DO on their plate” (like your girl’s “oh I have stuff to do TUESDAY, and THURSDAY, omg I have so much to do!!”), which made me switch to going more “boring” in my txts which, because they’re more “boring” I don’t want to do as much of because that makes me come off more boring, so to avoid that I have to Time Bridge more solid and push for the meetup quickly after number-closing.

So your girl interpreted your text as you being creepily controlling/domineering like you’re DEMANDING her time. Which is retarded because obviously you didn’t mean it that way…but she’s looking for anything she can interpret as a red flag in the worst possible way to clear off one more text convo and social obligation from her plate. Because she has SO MANY OPTIONS that she doesn’t HAVE to take a chance on you and make time for you and rush her schedule to meet up with you.

Also my buddies and I have found that no one plans things anymore. Like it used to be that you could get a number and then set up a Day2 for a couple weeks later and she’d spend the week getting her hair and nails done and vag waxed and picking out a dress etc and you’d meet up that Friday night at the bar or whatever and it was an exciting adventure.

But now it’s like they plan about a day or two ahead…because they have SO MANY people texting them offering them shit to do that they don’t want to go “yes I’ll do this with you 2 weeks from now” because WHO KNOWS what offer is going to come along in their 50000 texts they’ll get between now and 2 weeks from now, from a hundred different people, that they don’t want to have to awkwardly cancel on you or pass some better opportunity up etc The <25yo crowd will often just decide the day OF that they're going to have a get-together that night or decide where it'll be. So pushing for meeting up within 48 hours helps avoid that problem too, because it's spontaneous and within her window of her immediate schedule planning.

These are just things I've found that help and the best I can figure out the dynamics of why my text game stopped working. I miss it lol I had so many fucking lays from text game and my phones were all filled with dirty pics I'd get them to send me in our txt convos lol

So ya, best resource I'd say re-read/watch Mystery's Time Bridge stuff and then grab Julien's PIMP (through whatever means necessary wink wink) and specifically watch the sections on Closing. When you understand it you'll see that Julien is just running an amped up version of Mystery's Time Bridging, to make it work in this ADD culture. Like he's doing the same thing but he's forcing them to invest harder by repeating what the plans are and telling her he doesn't want the number if she's going to flake and getting her to commit over and over to the Time Bridge etc to force it to stay in her mind when the barrage of distractions floods her after he leaves and for the next 48 hours. If he can make the Time Bridge have enough emotional impact, she's more likely to keep the plans through all the stimulus she's going to be receiving.

Basically don't get into a position where you have to game them over text because it's gotten significantly harder to pull off in the current social media culture. Recovery is hard as fuck or can be impossible depending on the girl and the time frame and how much else she has going on in her life. I saw Krauser do a text game turnaround with a girl with low attraction and what he did was stuff that would definitely work a few years ago, but our culture is ahead of EE in terms of social media and tech corrupting the dating scene and it would most likely fall flat here.

Now on the second interaction, note the differences: The second girl was more into you (A2 in Mystery Method) when you got the number than the first girl was, so you get a different style of response. The biggest key to note is how the first girl turns you down and DOESN'T offer any alternative plan. She says she's busy and lists the things on her schedule and that's it. Whereas the second girl, because she has more A2, does the same thing turning you down and listing her schedule but then offers an alternative plan. So right there you're already dealing with a situation where the girl has significantly more A2, which means you don't have to do as much to get her to meet up…she's chasing you VS the first girl where you're chasing her.

Turning around the first girl before she interpreted your shit negatively might have been possible, but better than that would have been to tighten your game up enough that when you number close her she has the same level of Attraction for you that the second girl had. That make sense? So like my prescription isn't "better recovery text game for dealing with this situation", its "better initial game to avoid this whole situation entirely". That's going to get you much better results.

Highly recommend Julien's PIMP stuff in general for working on that initial interaction…it's all about getting the girl to invest harder in the interaction and qualify harder to you and chase you harder. You want to get that first interaction tightened up to where if you don't ask for the girl's number they'll probably ask for YOUR number. When text game was easier the initial meet could be a bit sloppier (like a 30 second number close is flashy but it's not solid game, it's sloppy shit, but with good text game in the old days you could turn that around no problem with some heavy text gaming that she would interpret positively because she didn't have a million other guys txting her).

It's important to understand that nothing has changed about the actual concepts of Attraction themselves…a DHV still sparks Attraction, passing a shit-test still sparks Attraction, etc. It's not that this is unpredictable and 100% fluid so what's the point of even trying to study it etc

All that's changing is the ability to demonstrate/present those things. Like in PERSON, when her emotions are spiking positively and she's seeing all your attractive subcomms and shit, when she shit-tests you she's more likely to interpret your attempt to pass that shit-test in a positive way so you pass because she's feeling attraction from all your other shit and she WANTS you to turn out to be a cool guy.

But in TEXT, where she's had a dozen other guys that weekend miscalibrate and be creepy and weird and she's in a shitty mood bored at home and you're asking for her time when she's already got a busy schedule of pointless shit she's doing that week, when she shit-tests you the same way, and you say the exact same thing, she's more likely to interpret your exact same response in the most negative way possible, so she can rule you out as a guy who failed the shit-test and knock one more interaction/obligation off her plate so she can lay around the house Wednesday night instead of scrambling to go on a date and impress a guy and deal with him maybe turning out to be a creeper after all etc

So passing a shit-test still spikes Attraction, but the circumstances and subjective interpretation on her part is less in your favor over text than in person or than it was a few years ago.

Also a voice call can do wonders…they usually won't pick up so just plan to leave a sexy bedroom voice teasing voicemail that sounds like you don't care whether she gets back to you or not, just self-amuse on her voicemail basically and she'll usually call you back after she gets over the initial shock that someone actually CALLED on a phone instead of txted. But over voice you're able to display more subcomms (tonality, timing, emphasis, faster calibration to her responses, etc) which gives you more room to game her and change her mood and tease her etc and have it interpreted positively, VS text where all she has to go by are words on the screen that are MASSIVELY open for interpretation.

This was all a HUGE mindfuck for me but cleared up a lot of confusing shit when I finally figured it out lol Hope this helps you adapt your game. Use number closes as an absolute last resort…like Julien says go for Plan A (take her home), and if that doesn't work then go for Plan B (go home with her), and ONLY if neither of those are possible do you go with Plan C (take her number) and if you have to go with Plan C Time Bridge the FUCK out of it and try to spike enough Attraction that SHE number-closes YOU for your Time Bridge plans.

Like Mystery at 1:30:30 in this video (watch to the end of the vid, how many times the girl demands his number and tries to get him to pay attention to her to give her his number and interrupts his conversation and calls his phone and how he messes with her by deleting her number "by accident" and getting distracted etc so she's always on the edge…THAT girl is NOT going to flake on him, SHE'S going to be texting HIM to hang out):

Like, THAT'S the level of Attraction you should be shooting for, if you're going to settle for a number close. But that's not the level 99% of dudes get when they number-close these days (another problem I have with the LDM footage I see and how little A2 they get…when EE phone culture catches up to our phone culture, they're going to have a hard time)…usually guys just get a minimum or average amount of A2 at best and consider getting the number a victory in itself so they get a myopic focus on just "get the number, that's success!!" and then end up with a shitty conversion rate with tons of flakes and dead end numbers.

But this shit was all technically laid out in Mystery Method back in the day lol Julien's just added more impact to it to compete with the competing stimulus girls have now.

Good luck, there's no lines and shit I can really give you. It's an overall game structure shift. Julien's infield in SHIFT (specifically the pornstar at the club he number closes, again grab this through whatever means you can wink wink) is a good example of his hard push for the Time Bridge, all through the entire interaction he's pushing the Time Bridge and keeps coming back to it to solidify it over and over again in her mind.

Also your texting technique in general is solid in that second interaction, it's clear that you're pushing the interaction forward not getting stuck in gay sideways go-nowhere conversations, and you can see how well the second girl responds to it…even with the level of A2 the second girl has for you, a LOT of guys will still end up texting themselves into the friend zone with her, having long conversations that don't lead the interaction anywhere…they're FUN and the girl enjoys them, but they start making the guy become more like a friend than a Lover. Whereas everything you say is followed with something that pushes the interaction forward or forces her to qualify or future-projects you two being together etc so you're meeting up with her probably about as efficiently as possible.

So keep that part up when you DO text. Like if you get your initial Attraction stuff tighter and Time Bridge solid so that your number closes are more often closer to the second girl's level of A2, you'll still have to text but do it the way you're doing it in that second interaction…much more subtle, less room for her to interpret things in a negative light (like look at your texts, there's nothing in them that could be misinterpreted negatively VS the more gamey stuff from the first interaction).

That's one of the keys I guess, whenever you're about to text something ask yourself "could this txt I'm about to send be interpreted in a negative way if I sent this to a girl who hated me or wanted to prove I was a creeper, like if I sent this txt to a Jezebel feminist writer, is there anything in here that she could interpret in a negative way to "prove" that I was a creeper to a bunch of rabid feminists that hate men?" lol


YaReally
on September 5th, 2016 at 9:34 pm
Original Link

@stringerbell
Also to clarify the girls weren’t calling me creepy off my initial text, like right away, they would like me for the first part of the interaction, I’d even use some of the same humor and they’d like it, but seemingly randomly I would just keep running into holy shit all of a sudden I’ve crossed some imaginary line that makes NO sense and now she’s 180’ed and won’t even give me a CHANCE to recover, just an INSTANT Off switch was flipped…which was the part that made my friend confused because the interactions he was reading would be like “yup this all looks good, yup, yup, solid, wait wtf?? Why did she suddenly 180 there?? Now she LEGITIMATELY thinks you’re stalking her??? wtf why would she think that? I mean, you COULD interpret it that way I GUESS if you were LOOKING for a way to label you a creepy stalker, but why would she interpret it THAT way when she was into you a few messages ago???”

I remember one girl that I talked to for a couple days, we even made out in our initial interaction and had a solid hour together good solid game etc, and our texts were full of tons of sarcastic humor etc but she flaked on us meeting up and because I know how flaking works I totally guessed that it was a Tinder date because that happens all the time these days, so I was like “so how was your Tinder date?” and she flipped the fuck OUT and was like “HOW DID YOU KNOW I WAS ON ONE?” “I just guessed” “NO SERIOUSLY HOW DID YOU KNOW YOU’RE CREEPING ME OUT HERE” (she didn’t use caps lol but this was the emotion behind what she was texting) like 100% convinced I had stalked her on her date or some shit lol like what?? Why would that be a thing you would even THINK?? But the INSTANT that switch was flipped I was done, not even a chance to recover…

BUT, from HER perspective she’s probably HAD guys who WERE creepy obsessive stalkers like that before, so it’s safer/faster for her to interpret it that way and assume the 50% box will explode, than it is to take a chance on the box lol because she has 50000 other boxes that haven’t flipped any red flags yet that she can replace me with. And when you combine the tendency to interpret the texts negatively combined with me not using emoticons and lols and shit, like trying to be Mr Alpha laconic badass, it comes off even MORE like I could be some angry creeper stewing in his apartment that’s saying essentially “how was CHEATING ON ME YOU FUCKING WHORE…I just guessed because I KNOW SLUTTY CHEATING WHORES YOU BITCH” lol because there are guys who would ACTUALLY react that way and she’s probably run across a few. And once you’ve been actively linked to “bad feels” you’re not going to get away from that to recover.

So I don’t even mind, like I totally get her perspective and can’t blame her for her reaction when you look at all the variables involved. I just cringe that somewhere out there is a girl who legitimately thinks I was stalking her when I legitimately thought we were just having a fun conversation lol

But again when you give it the Jez test of “COULD this be misinterpreted?” then ya somehow just “knowing” she was on a Tinder date and saying it without winky faces or in a voice conversation where I can use tonality etc COULD be interpreted as being some crazy stalker lol


YaReally
on September 6th, 2016 at 8:14 am
Original Link

@Dunhill
“YaReally, I’d like to hear some Game advice from you, even tho this might not be the best place to do it. (Sorry Rollo).”

lol’ed

“…..Because she has SO MANY OPTIONS that she doesn’t HAVE to take a chance on you and make time for you and rush her schedule to meet up with you….

Why would this be true? I’m not saying it’s not, but what’s the mechanic behind it?”

Two analogies:

1) You find a $10,000 bill on the ground. An average person will shit their pants with excitement, HOLY FUCK $10,000!!! It’s the highlight of their YEAR to find that shit. Bill Gates finds a $10,000 bill on the ground. It’s COOL, but Bill Gates has BILLIONS, he has endless $10,000 bills available to him. He’ll be happy to have found it, but it’s not going to blow his mind like the first person…and the first person will dig that $10,000 out of the trash bin. But if it was in a trash bin, Bill Gates might go “ehh, I’m alright without it.” It’s not that the $10,000 isn’t valuable, it’s just that Bill Gates has so much money that he doesn’t have to jump on that opportunity.

2) You live in the Playboy Mansion. You have a dozen gorgeous 10s offering to suck your dick every day. Anytime you snap your fingers, 3 9/10s run upstairs to your bed and offer to fuck you. When you go out you meet some hot girl, she’s a solid 10/10, or maybe a 9/10 with a great personality. She txts you the next day, when you’re at the Mansion surrounded by hot girls, and she wants to meet up but she wants you to shower up, drive across the city, find and pay for parking, go through a date that might not lead to sex because she’s implied she’s “not that kind of girl” and wants to go on a few non-banging dates first, etc etc Now you might like her, especially in the moment when you met her. But you HAVE a dozen options around you, that are making it way easier to just settle for them…are you REALLY gonna put in all that work for this girl? Maybe, if you’re bored of those options or you’ve found out over time that those options are actually shitty…but generally you’re probably going to go “ehh, just come here and make it easy” and if she won’t then fuck it her loss.

It’s not that that girl wasn’t hot or that $10,000 didn’t have value, it’s just a matter of abundance/scarcity. Before Tinder, before social media, before smartphones, before texting, girls had a lot more scarcity. Not to the level men had of course, but a girl might only give her number out once or twice in a weekend. Now she’s flooded with options that LOOK good from afar…the catch is that she doesn’t KNOW whether they’re good or not unless she INTERACTS with them and tests them etc to see if they’re legit. ’cause the guys are putting up their best fronts, photos of them surfing and in suits and shit, but the girl’s hindbrain NEEDS to test them to find out if they’re legit or not.

“Yeah sure, she has her other 500 tinder options, but their intentions are known.”

She doesn’t know that and while ya the “hi wanna fuk?” texts do happen, they also get a ton of guys trying to run indirect text game to not get lumped in with the “u dtf?” guys, and they have good highlight-reel profiles etc The girl’s hindbrain goes “okay this guy commented on my photo and it was a funny comment…and look at his pics, he’s in a shark cage in this one and he’s got a bunch of friends in this other one and here he is shirtless that’s kind of douchey so I’ll make fun of him for it and see how he reacts” and she’ll shit-test him on his shirtless pic. If he passes the shit-test, she’ll feel attraction, if he fails it, she writes him off.

It’s in her biological best interest to NOT pass up better options even if she knows the odds of them being better are low…what if that ONE GUY isn’t? But if she tries it with enough guys with shark cage photos then eventually she learns “okay guys with shark cage photos are no good…but what about guys with yatch photos?”

WE know those guys’ intentions, and she may know them on a CONSCIOUS level, which is why you’ll see a lot of girls respond to these guys with garbage and teasing and insults and making fun of them and tooling them just to entertain themselves on a boring night…but they’re still ENGAGING them secretly in the hopes of the back of their hindbrain that they’ll be The One to pass the tests. Just like they won’t shit-test a homeless person, they shit-test guys their hindbrain could be attracted to.

“No flickering the tingle, no air of intrigue and mystery around that.”

They try. Don’t fall for the hype that every guy on Tinder is just sending dick pics. As soon as those stereotypes became common, every other guy tries going the indirect route to set himself apart.

“And all she has to do is swipe through all of them while rubbing her clit, until she eventually says “Oooh, this one’s cute, let’s give him a shot””

Yup, which is why she doesn’t care about putting as much effort in now. But that guy can still blow himself out between her swiping and him putting his dick inside her if he fucks up the interaction and fails shit-tests.

Basically a ton of guys on Tinder are trying your rabbit hole game lol “we’re on a hookup app but let’s pretend it’s not a hookup app” type vibe.

“I could be very wrong about this (the joy of exploring and trying new things), but when I game a girl I like, the vibe I’m trying to achieve is that basically, I’m the rabbit her curiosity can’t stand not to follow.”

Only if she has no reason to believe those new things could be bad feels experiences. Women aren’t risk-takers…they want new experiences but they want them guaranteed to be positive experiences. She won’t “try new food” at some shithole dive joint, she’ll “try new food” at a 5-star restaurant her friends all told her about because ya it’s a new experience but it’s guaranteed to probably be a positive one. Same way preselection and social proof work, the guy is unknown but she has reason to believe that he’s high-value and will be a positive experience for her.

’cause online/txt other guys are offering “pure good feels experiences”…as far as what they’re SAYING/IMPLYING to her, they’re helping convince her that the whole thing is going to be 100% good feels. She doesn’t KNOW that that’s boring to her. She doesn’t KNOW that she needs the full range of good AND bad emotions to feel solid Attraction. Her forebrain has been conditioned to believe that she DOESN’T want that, that she just wants a Nice Guy. So her forebrain says “don’t take the chance of feeling Bad Feels” while her hindbrain says “I’m borrrred by this Good Feels 100% of the time shit, I need some DRAMA” when she GETS the 100% Good Feels only guy. And she doesn’t KNOW that most of the time that Good Feels guy was full of shit and will end up being lame and result in Bad Feels.

“In simple terms, it’s basically differentiating yourself from others in as mysterious way as possible.”

What you’re doing with the mysterious stuff is not giving her any indication one way or the other whether you’ll be a Good Feels or potentially Bad Feels situation. You’re not giving them enough to really rule you out, basically…which is similar to what I recommend now: less time txting so you can’t fuck up or trip any red flags lol

Think of the girl like a blind person. You can TELL a blind person that an object is cold, or they can suspect it might be, but they don’t KNOW until they TOUCH it. Once they TOUCH it, they confirm to themselves “okay this is cold”…until they touch it there’s always the chance that it’s not because they don’t have their full range of senses (txt/online game cuts off their ability to see the majority of your subcomms that they would see if you met in real life). So they instinctively NEED to touch that object to see if it’s cold or not, incase it ISN’T and they can finally warm up.

So ya, the mysterious thing is fine. But you’ll have to have made a hell of a first impression on her for her to CARE about the mystery, to balance it out, so that she thinks “this mystery is WORTH unravelling”, which comes back to guys working on their initial interaction to make more emotional impact to hook her. And with all her options and endless stimulus, it’s probably a good idea to still push for that 48 hour window so she remembers how intrigued she was by you when you first met.

@N1
“So with regard to text game you recommend to keep it short and comfort-y, push for the meetup right away (implied by the face-to-face interaction)?”

ya, basically make a better impression in the initial interaction and then keep the txting short and boring and pushing toward a meetup VS having big long conversations all day, which she’ll TOTALLY be up for doing, but will lower your value because you’re basically giving the milk (your attention and the emotions you give her) away for free (she gets them over txt putting no effort in). Make a strong impact on her in person and then force her to have to meet up with you to get to experience that again.

They have DOZENS of guys who will HAPPILY text them ALLLLLL day long. This was my move back before it got popular and it was great, I could run my whole game in txt and have like an 8 hour txt convo and she felt tons of comfort/rapport by the end etc. But back then I was her only real conversation for the day, maybe a couple best friends txting her and that was about it. But now EVERY guy is trying that move under the assumption of “the more time interacting with her, the more chance I’ll get laid” because the standard Nice Guy’s game is “spend as much time with her as possible building comfort/rapport and hopefully she realizes she likes me one day and has sex with me” (normal AFCs doing cold approach try to go right to comfort/rapport “Hi, so uhhh do you come here much? That’s cool what are you drinking? That’s a cool drink so where are you from?” because they don’t understand Attraction should come first).

The longer you take before you meet up again the more stimulus she gets from other potentially high-value options and the less she remembers how amazing you were…so pounce on that shit fast.

@Klem
“Honestly, I’m feeling more and more that texting is just low value.”

Yup. It’s funny how that’s worked out, because txting was AWESOME before everyone was doing it. But it’s a perfect ego buffer for guys to use, so they ALL use it, and girls love it because they get validation/attention/socialization 24/7 whenever they want it they just open their phones or post a selfie and get compliments.

It comes back to my two room analogy. On any dating site what happens is the hot girls use it first because the guys they’re meeting in real life are lame and they’re looking for any other options they can find ’cause they want to increase their chances of finding a high-value guy…then the cool guys get on it, because the hot girls they know are using it and they think “great, I can find more like her!” And everyone hooks up and has a blast.

Then the lame guys hear about it and go “wait wut I can get hot girls without having to approach and put my ego on the line??” and jump on there which ruins it for the hot girls and they just switch to using it as an orbiter-collector putting “just looking for friends” and their instagram account as their profile description because they give up on it.

Because guys are in scarcity, the uglier girls who stick around on the site start getting laid and they’re banging super high-value dudes who are lazy or make excuses for banging 5s and 6s (like getting catfished and being too polite to bail, or being drunk and thinking “well she wants me to just come over so it’s better than sleeping alone” etc). Then the ugly girls in society hear that their ugly friends are banging hot high-value guys so they jump on it and now you’ve got a site with no hot girls, but tons of guys from 0-10 all banging girls that are 1-7 with the occasional 8 thrown in and the 9s and 10s don’t even bother looking at their profiles or anything anymore because the site feels like it’s all low-value guys to them.

Where do those hot girls go? Ironically back into the real world, where a guy has to STEP UP and demonstrate confidence and attractive traits just to ENGAGE her face to face. Or social circle guys who come pre-approved. But this next generation of guys don’t learn to cold approach because they hide behind buffers like txting and stick to social circle/networking to meet girls and only the top guys in that social circle are getting the hot girls, the bottom of the social circle guy is eating shit.

Note how social media has kept expanding…it used to be “meet local guys in your city” then it was “meet guys in your area” then it was “meet guys through your social circles” (Facebook), then it was “meet guys in your country” and now it’s “meet guys from ALL OVER THE WORLD” with shit like Instagram. To lure the hot girls back to it they have to keep expanding the potential options, so that girl thinks “I might interact with Brad Pitt over in Italy and he could fly me to him” and comes back to the app. That’s probably a big part of why Instagram got so popular.

The point of all this is just that ya, txting is low-value now. Because every guy is doing it and most of them are doing it bad or boring and it’s not providing the tingles she gets from a face to face interaction.

“Look at a girls phone and there will be 20 convo with guys just as witty as yours, trying to get her to meet with them. Of course you’ll have the “hi sweetie how was your day” chodes, but A LOT of them have tight text game nowadays, I guess with all those “how to text her” guides on the internet.”

Yup. Guys aren’t retarded, they’re googling how to text better lol I’ve seen a few guys conversations (’cause I make girls show me “my competition”) and some of them I’m like “hey that was decent text game”. Just like every guy at the bar has a little bit of red pill knowledge now ’cause they read in Maxim not to buy a girl a drink or to neg her VS back when PUA first got momentum and we were running circles around every other guy in the bar like fucking wizards out there lol

Texting will never let you display the barrage of subcomms that you can display in a face to face one on one interaction. Face to face will ALWAYS be the optimal route for building Attraction even if other routes CAN work.

“And hot chicks are SOCIAL they love to just chat with many people, unlike most guys who endure texting with the objective to fuck lol.”

A girl is PERFECTLY HAPPY just texting orbiters all day and getting endless validation and offers. That’s GOOD FEELS for her and keeps her from having to go SEARCH for Good Feels. The guys think they’re getting somewhere but 99.999% of the time they’re not because they’re just entertaining her or keeping a conversation going that goes sideways aka nowhere. That’s why I stress that your texts should push toward the meetup that you ideally Time Bridged hard when you first got the number after making a solid emotional impact in your initial interaction.

“Like Tinder, I dont think guys should spend time and energy improving their text game : they should go out instead, and practice RSD style game to make an emotional impact and try to get the same night lay.”

Yup. That’s why in my response to stringerbell I was trying to focus on not improving his text game but improving the rest of his game so he doesn’t need to use text game as much. ’cause personally I think text game is pretty much dead. Not that it can’t work, especially if you’re one of the top 10% looking profiles on Tinder and shit (because Tinder removes all your shitty subcomms that she might rule you out for in real life when she finds the jacked chisled jaw rich guy actually has the body language of a chode and can’t look her in the eye so looks DO matter on Tinder, but remember you’re competing for 8s at BEST the majority of the time on there at this point in Tinder’s life cycle), but like, you should avoid it if you can now and focus on getting face to face and getting it FAST before she forgets how much fun she had with you.

“Because if you give her your number, now you are part of the “guys who I did not like enough to go home with”, for the girl. Dunno if that makes sense.”

Yup. In the old days you were the only text that showed up on her screen at 2am the night you met her. Now she has dozens (hundreds if she’s smokeshow hot) of texts at 2am and you’re just one in the huge list.

But if you pay attention infield: the hottest girls tend to KNOW the text orbiters are lower-value than the guy who can approach them in person or through their social circle in person, and when they’re interacting with that guy they won’t check their phone (or will just glance at it to text their friend who’s wondering where they are or whatever). Like they’ll ignore that huge list of text guys for the chance with the in-person face to face guy who’s stoking their emotions properly.

Watch for it and you’ll often see the hottest smokeshow girls don’t even use their phones at the bar much, they’ll look around and be open to being approached (because only confident guys will approach them) because they’ve learned most of the text guys turn out to be lame so they don’t Tinder at the bar…until they determine that there are no cool attractive guys there that have the balls to approach them and THEN they’ll pull out the phones (usually around an hour or so before last call and those girls are rarely there at last call, most of them just come in and do a few laps or stand around hoping some cool guy will approach while they network their way up the value-chain meeting the managers and shit and then leave disappointed).

It’s the 4-8s that fill that “obsessed with their phone” stereotype at the bar all night lol Most of the hottest girls you see would WAY RATHER engage a cool guy in a face to face interaction, but guys won’t approach them being sober, cool, charismatic, teasing in a calibrated way, etc so they’re FORCED to use their phones.

“Just like the idea of forever monogamy, it’s time to let go of texting as way to get attraction, and embrace that now we will have to do the HARD stuff : learn to attract very well in person!”

I agree. It’s not that it can’t still work or anything, it’s just that, especially as trends progress and more and more guys become socially stunted because they’re raised using buffers like texting, having cold approach skills or even solid social circle game skills, that shit is going to be VALUABLE AS FUCK. Might as well start learning it now. Get back to the basics, check out Mystery Method so that you’re getting the level of A2 he’s getting in that 1:30:30 video I linked above if you have to do number closes. View txting as purely a way to get to the Time Bridge you set up VS “we’ll hang out sometime”. No, that was cool before but every guy says that now, Time Bridge in person and get her to agree and commit to an actual within-48-hours meetup and tell her you don’t WANT her number if she’s one of those girls that just makes drunk plans and then bails (qualifying her and forcing her to commit) etc etc

I recommend any guy hitting the field regularly try not allowing themselves to ask for phone number for a few months, so that they’re forced to either push the interaction to an SNL or build enough Attraction that the girl OFFERS her number or asks for THEIR number instead. That forces the guy to tighten up his initial game which will help convert to more lays.


YaReally
on September 6th, 2016 at 9:43 am
Original Link

Also when you give her your number you’re removing the immediacy of needing to come with you. Julien Todd etc all talk about this, but if you give her your number then she thinks in her head “okay I like this guy I’ll see him again when we go on a date” and she REALLY thinks she’ll see you again, because she doesn’t know she’s going to lose that attraction as she gets bombarded with other stimulus and end up flaking on you.

But when you’re in person, sparking her attraction, and she DOESN’T have a way to get in touch with you again, so it’s either come with you now to see where it goes or lose you and the experience you represent forever, she has more incentive to come with you for the SDL/SNL.

This is a big part of why people get laid on vacation a lot, because there’s reason to make it happen NOW since one or both people will be gone in a couple days. Whereas she knows Steve from math class that she grew up with is going to be around for YEARS, she’s in no rush to fuck him and the longer it takes to fuck him the more he ends up in the friend zone because he gives her attention/value without getting anything in return.

Now the question is: how many guys will ACTUALLY go out and refuse to ask for numbers to improve their game? How many guys will be staring down a hottie that they want to bone, who’s giving them green light signals but says she can’t go home with them that night and asks for their number, and then tell her “Nope, no numbers” and refuse to give it to her so that she’s FORCED to go with you that night and then also try to figure out a way to get around all the obstacle reasons for why she can’t go home with you, risking losing her forever, and/or try to figure out how to spark SO MUCH A2 that she DEMANDS your number to the point where that girl in that Mystery video is following him around demanding it and won’t flake?

Not very many. They’ll just read this as one of those funny PUA exercises and not actually try it in the moment, because their scarcity will kick in and they’ll still ask for the number “just to be safe” incase she DOESN’T come with them and they don’t see her again. Krauser definitely won’t try it…because he doesn’t get enough A2 for the girls to demand his number. And not addressing any of these blind spots is why he won’t get past a certain level of plateau.

@gb_hill @Klem
Also Deepak delivered lol:

Chicks at the start look legitimately attracted to him. They aren’t the smokin hot 10/10s that Krauser gets pics of off Google Image for his Lay Reports captioned “she looked exactly like this 10/10 model but with a better ass and tits” lol but Deepak never said his 30/60 was all gorgeous hotties lol

And it doesn’t mean he hasn’t gotten or can’t get hot girls, most Naturals with high lay counts have everything from gross 1s to smokin hot 10s in their history, often with the hotter girls you DON’T pull out a phone and record it because you’re focused on the actual interaction and recording the moment makes it look like it’s some special event for you to be getting laid by a hot girl which is the opposite of giving off abundance.

And I haven’t seen much in the way of these 10/10s the LDM guys say they’re getting, the chick Jabba street kiss-closed in his infamous video looks like a tranny with caterpillar eyebrows and most of the girls I’ve seen in Krauser’s pull vids look like any average girl from over here, girls that would go mostly unnoticed at a Vegas pool party or high-end club. And on a personal note I’m big on teeth, a girl who’s hot but with mangled Euro/Asian teeth is gross to me and the impression I get from the pics I’ve seen is that lots of hot Euro/Asian chicks in their home environments have bad teeth.

This is all hilarious. Krauser should take Deepak’s offer to see the full footage of the video he “debunked” and then just admit he was wrong and apologize. He can still say “but I think the 30/60 is bullshit”, that’s fine, but he has to admit Deepak’s accent isn’t holding him back with these ESL white girls. It doesn’t mean Deepak’s game is amazing but like, Krauser talked shit about his video and was wrong. A “real man” would admit his mistake. And Krauser couldn’t tell Torrero’s video was fake, like, CLEARLY Krauser is not good at analyzing this shit lol

And then Krauser should learn more about subcomms. ’cause that’s the saddest part of all this…is that he won’t learn from this.

Krauser won’t go “hmm, okay so how is Deepak doing this then…he shouldn’t be getting attraction at ALL, based on my current views of how attraction works…and yet, he DOES have footage showing that he gets real attraction. So how is he getting around that accent and his ugly face, how is this happening and what can I learn from it?”

He’ll go “WHATEVER MAN, THOSE GIRLS ARE ALL MINGERS, I BANG 10/10S AND ATTRACTION IS DIFFERENT WITH THEM AND HE COULD NEVER GET THEM AND HE’S JUST A BUD BUD BUD INDIAN APU LOLOLOL WHAT A LOSER THEY’RE PROBABLY STILL HIRED ANYWAY WHATEVERRRRR”

And he’ll miss a HUGE opportunity to improve his game and his understanding of attraction, and maybe mellow out a bit.

Deepak is answering a bunch of the actual Krauser post criticisms in this video. Basically everything Krauser came up with is easily debunkable and explainable, especially having the uncut footage where you see the “second camera” is just the same camera walking to another spot and a VERY CLEAR AND NOT ATTEMPTED TO HIDE IT AT ALL cut in the final video with a speech bubble in the top right that catches the viewer up to the conversation that happened between cuts, ZERO scam attempt on that (but Krauser’s description makes it sound like they’re trying to hide a cut or imply there was no cut which is bullshit but half of Krauser’s followers won’t even watch the video for themselves ’cause they’re too busy sucking his dick).

And his stuff about kissing in public, like, how does any guy who does pickup not know that 1) you don’t NEED to suck face in public to get laid and 2) some girls will get ASD with public makeouts especially with a minority dude or when she has a boyfriend who’s friends might be around etc…like, how was this even a criticism from Krauser. It’s like when guys go on about how important groping her is and I’m like no I don’t kino at all I just build sexual tension in other ways and save that shit for private, especially with a girl with a boyfriend.

Krauser’s “debunks” of Deepak’s footage are just awful and he’s blinded by his hate of minorities or some shit. Because he doesn’t really understand subcomms as deep as he thinks he does. This is such an opportunity for Krauser to learn and grow and improve his game to levels he doesn’t even realize are possible.

Deepak fuckin rekt Krauser lol Also the mirror attachment on the phone camera is a pretty clever way of discreetly filming infield.

I still want an explanation from Justin Wayne on that tanktop shirt change from that SDL vid, but even if Justin fakes footage that doesn’t mean Deepak does too, just like Torerro’s fake footage doesn’t discredit all the LDM guys by association.


The Key Masters

Original Link

via Rational Male

YaReally
on August 21st, 2016 at 8:15 pm
Original Link

No man “committing” to a girl raised in 2016 culture is in a monogamous LTR. He’s in a one-sided pLTR (Primary LTR, a primary partner with multiple orbiters/side-poon) but in the GIRL’S favor (aka she keeps her options available while he restricts his own).

Social media and women out of the kitchen and into the workplace etc creates a system where women can openly gather and string orbiters along and openly seek higher-value options than her current man and this is socially acceptable because it’s all done under the guise of “just being friends” or anonymity.

If her significant other tries to restrict her access to that stuff, he’s labelled controlling, insecure, jealous, abusive, etc And if the guy keeps his own options open, he’s a player, cheat, unfaithful, emotionally abusive, etc

In the old days, before modern technology (especially before phones were invented but even in, like, the 50s say), a woman had to go out of her way to gather and keep orbiters around. It took actual effort and even if she went out looking she really only had access to a handful of men besides her husband. Once she determined that he was her best option, her Hypergamy was satisfied enough to make a relationship work long-term. That doesn’t mean women didn’t cheat, or weren’t subconsciously still on the prowl for some mysterious high-value stranger who passes through town, but like, it was significantly more difficult to entertain that shit (plus she had other shit to do with her day, like keeping the house/family taken care of before modern technology turned cooking, laundry, cleaning, etc into short often automated tasks that give her tons of free time to be bored).

But today’s technology means that a girl can be dating the greatest catch in her social circle, but still potentially have access to an even higher value guy through her social media. And if she switches to that guy, when he’s sitting on the couch beside her being boring, she can be communicating with a AAA celebrity through her social media.

Hypergamy doesn’t “shut off”, it NEVER sleeps…it’s ALWAYS there, always pinging for value. If you can keep her away from other men that don’t necessarily HAVE higher-value than you but that she PERCEIVES *MAY* have higher-value than you in HER value system of what constitutes high-value (which causes her to feel that compelling instinctive urge to test to SEE if he is juuuust incase he IS and she should pursue him), then you have a shot. But all the actions that would help that are demonized and villified as controlling, abusive, etc thanks to feminism pushing for Open Hypergamy and Open Cuckolding. This is why they’ll keep pushing that stuff trying to program boys from an early age so that it’s normalized to them when they’re adults and they don’t question the arrangement where they give up all their options while the girl says she does but is still pinging for better in the background thanks to the technology that’s made that abundant, easy and discreet (and connected her to astronomically high-value males like celebrities).

The ruse is that a relationship where a man gives up all his options and is sexually faithful to a woman, while the woman is sexually faithful to him (for now) but is constantly subconsciously on the prowl for better (because social media and being in male spaces like male workplaces and hobbies) under an “innocent” frame of “oh that’s just some guy from work, it’s no big deal, why are you getting jealous don’t be so insecure!”, is still “a monogamous relationship”.

That’s NOT a monoLTR. That is a pLTR in the woman’s favor. No guy dating/settling with a girl in 2016 is settling into a “monogamous LTR”, he’s settling into a “pLTR in the woman’s favor”. Like, guys need to really let that concept sink in.

The only guys in ACTUAL monoLTRs are guys who’s significant others don’t (or barely) use social media (so a lot of guys with older wives which is why I stress the raised in 2016 culture thing, or if you can find like, an Amish girl lol), and/or don’t (or barely) spend time in male spaces around other men (like working at a place where she’s surrounded by high-value men).

Literally any girl with social media is only offering guys a pLTR in her favor, but everyone in society including the man agreeing to it will still call it a monoLTR, and that man will find himself frustrated that she has orbiters posting/flirting on her Facebook wall but will then realize he’s in a Kobayashi Maru when he tries to call her out on it and is labelled jealous/insecure for it…he won’t be able to articulate it unless he’s a Red Pill guy and even then it depends on how much of the pill he’s swallowed, but he’ll instinctively know that him sitting on the couch watching Netflix while she sits beside him surfing Facebook and responding to guys on her Facebook wall, that something isn’t “right” with that agreement he’s entered. Because it’s lopsided in her favor.

This is why I’m pushing for guys to understand and explore the dynamics of how pLTRs and oLTRs work, and how oLTRs naturally become pLTRs if you can keep her Hypergamy triggered, and just REQUIRING a pLTR from her already puts you near the top of her Hypergamous options because it’s giving her all the shit she needs (dread, jealousy, etc) and giving you all the shit you need (sexworthiness, charisma to flirt with other girls, abundance mentality to walk away, etc) for her to stay attracted to you.

And it’s why I’m pushing for guys to start experimenting with pLTRs so we can get more guys in them and get more guys thinking about how we can successfully have and raise kids in a pLTR (in the man’s favor) arrangement with no legal ties and possibly accepting the fact that women may not stay past the 7 year itch and prepare for accepting that and prospering within the new system.

Because the old system is DEAD. MonoLTRs don’t exist anymore. I can’t re-state that enough.

Unless you can keep your girl jobless in your home and off all forms of social media (even the seemingly innocent ones that are for hobby groups or business networking etc)…which with a 20+yo girl in 2016 with a huge social network, is pretty unrealistic (her friends/family (who are all in shitty relationships themselves) will likely view you as abusive and be trying to turn her against you to “save” her from the horror that is your relationship actually having a chance at working out lol). You may manage to make an “LTR” work in 2016 with a girl raised in 2016 culture, but understand that unless you’re pro-actively running a pLTR in your favor, you are making a “pLTR in her favor” work, not a “monoLTR”.

This is a big part of why marriage is a bad deal. Even if you marry a chick who doesn’t use social media, and get her to quit her job to be a housewife, when she’s sitting around at home all day long bored out of her mind, she’s VERY likely going to end up getting social media to have some kind of contact with the outside world, and now you’re legally tied to a pLTR in her favor. The best you can do is even the odds out with your own girls, but you’ve signed legal paperwork handing her all the power in the world to destroy your life if you miscalibrate at some point in the next 40+ years.

How to have a pLTRs in more depth:

http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-114069

And none of this is even taking into account the social conditioning girls are receiving from an early age telling them boyfriends and commitment and monogamy are all a drag that keeps you from having fun going to Avicii concerts with your BFF girlfriends and hooking up with guys and you’ll be young forever and Amy Schumer gets the rich doctor when she’s 35 and shit:

inb4 the badasses come out of the wordwork to brag that their 40+yo wife raised in the pre-social media age doesn’t use any social media and if you’re just alpha enough none of this will have any effect and she’ll just sit on the couch at home all day with the computer off, no phone, and just stare at a photo of you thinking about how wonderful you are and you totally know it because this one 21yo you were seeing for a few months totally didn’t even check her phone when she was with you so that totally extrapolates to a 40+ year marriage full of lulls of boredom and fights and negative emotions and your value fluctuating to her as you deal with shit life throws at you lol


YaReally
on August 21st, 2016 at 8:54 pm
Original Link

@walawala
“The Oribter thing is a problem for me. A few girls I’ve committed to in the past ALWAYS plugged into orbiters.”

They always will from now on, because social media has made it so effortless to do so. By the time you meet her she’ll already have a huge stable of them. Whether they’re actual threats or not doesn’t matter, most of them won’t be but she has them all there to keep her guy from thinking he can “wrong” her (oh man if she gets mad at me and we break up all these other guys will move in on her), but they’re all just a distraction to keep a guy from realizing that she’s keeping all those channels open because they may lead her to a legitimately better option than her current guy, even if she isn’t consciously aware of it (which most of the time she isn’t).

The thing I think the Red Pill community has to understand, especially this upcoming generation that is looking at dating/settling with these 2016 social media culture, male work/hobby-space participating, etc HOT “high-value” (confident, social, fun, etc) girls is that orbiters are NOT OPTIONAL ANYMORE.

Like even in the old PUA literature, orbiters come across as this “it might happen here and there” thing. Like, she may have a couple orbiters, or you may run into one, or maybe she has a highschool friend who has a crush on her. But overall if your value was high enough, there was no social media or cell phones so keeping more than a handful of close orbiters around was a bit of a hassle.

But that’s changed. Orbiters come part and parcel with the girls now. And not just a couple orbiters, but anywhere from 10-1000s depending on her social media engagement and career, and it’s ever-expanding and will continue to expand as long as she has downtime and access to the technology she grew up conditioned to view as a normal part of daily life (again guys with old chicks are generally excluded from this).

So what I want guys to understand is that when you agree to “monogamous commitment”, you are no longer entering a monoLTR where she might have a couple annoying orbiters you can dismiss effortlessly. You are entering a lopsided pLTR in her favor where you are giving up your options and she will ENDLESSLY GATHER MORE AND MORE OPTIONS CONSTANTLY PINGING FOR HIGHER VALUE THAN YOU.

This has to be burned into guys head. I don’t care if a guy enters a raw deal if he’s decided he wants to, he can stack the deck against himself if he wants, as long as he understands exactly what he’s getting into.

In 2016 a girl with social media or work/hobbies full of men, is ONLY offering you a pLTR in her favor, she’s not offering you a monoLTR. She may be sexually faithful to you for a while, but her Hypergamy is always pinging for better and social media and feminist culture has given her ALL THE TOOLS AND AVENUES SHE COULD EVER WANT to help her ping wider, farther, faster, more discreetly, and for astronomically better than some housewife in <1950

Like, we shouldn't even be seeing "ya it was annoying, this girl had so many orbiters". That should just be EXPECTED now and guys should be learning how to handle it optimally (ie – learn to do pLTRs so that, as walawala shows, you can easily walk and get her to chase, and stay attractive because you keep your options open and never let the cat actually get the dangling string except for moments here and there).

We have to completely throw out the notion of a "monoLTR" where the girl doesn't have dozens of orbiters and won't gather more every year that she's on social media or in male spaces.

That "monoLTR where the girl doesn't have a huge herd of orbiters" just doesn't exist anymore.

…unless you go for the uggos. But even THEN. lol


YaReally
on August 21st, 2016 at 9:53 pm
Original Link

@walawala
“The response was typical: “well you don’t spend enough time with me…” sort of thing.”

That’s that “oh shit, this is a no-win situation” moment I was talking about. Like that’s when it hits that your only power to lay down rules is being able to walk away and that if you were legally tied to her or had kids with her, removing the ability to walk away, you would be in a fucking tough situation because if you don’t react then you don’t care about her enough, if you DO react then you’re controlling. No-win situation for the average guy who doesn’t understand Red Pill shit.

“was coming off as wayyyy too butt-hurt”

Yup. Which is the point of it. To see if you’re going to react to them or not and to see how much you need her. Most of the girls who have BFs that I’ve hooked up with, I didn’t have to even do anything special, the BF blows himself out by getting more reactive than me…and since she’s not MY GF, why WOULD I get reactive? But to the girl, the less reactive guy comes off as higher value ’cause he’s indicating the other guy isn’t competition in his mind (“hmm, he must know something I don’t then!”) whereas if he reacts then it’s (“hmm, if he reacted then this guy must be a threat for him!”).

Ironically she’s trusting your judgement in both scenarios lol (because girls ping off their environment for how to feel and the strongest frame wins and what you feel she feels) Which is why it’s important to develop self-confidence that doesn’t rely on your looks/money/car/etc because she has easy access to orbiters with more of any combination of those categories than you possess and why I harp on the looks/money topic.

“I even call them “orbiters” to some of my past plates. They love that term. It amuses them but it also strikes a chord.”

’cause they know exactly what the guys are for. And 99.999% of those guys ARE just entertainment and free favors and validation to the girls.

But guys have to understand that that’s all a smokescreen to keep them from realizing that her Hypergamous hindbrain is looking for that 0.001% and every one of those chodes is another possible route to a legitimate high-value male (ie – chode knows a celeb on social media or pays for her ticket to her fav celeb’s show and she can meet him etc).

It’s like airport security doing “random” searches of a big group of random people for show throwing up a smokescreen so no one realizes (or can accuse them if they do realize it) they’re just doing that to target the brown dudes lol

“banging her good doesn’t act as a buffer. I bang all my plates good. But the “orbiter” offers her that “ear”—listens to her all the time….hangs out with her, returns her funny texts while you’re the one sexting and escalating.”

Thing is she usually (not all girls, depends on how self-aware they are) doesn’t consciously KNOW she’s going to get bored by that guy that does all that gay comfort shit. That’s why they LSNFTE, ’cause they think they want that, then they get it and are bored out of their minds and come back.

But on top of that, the guys are putting on their best show. They have pics of themselves going rock climbing and driving fancy cars and flexing their 6-packs etc trying to do everything they can to put up the illusion that they’re these high-value dudes, when really they’re fapping to porn and watching YouTube all day like anyone else 90% of the time.

But all the girl SEES is the profile pics where the guy looks like a badass and she can just use her imagination to assume he’s off doing exciting things, while she’s sitting beside you on a boring Netflix night because you’re 3 years in and the NRE has worn off…next to THAT guy, any of those internet profiles that are “potentially higher-value males” seems like a lottery ticket worth discreetly scratching.

In the past, you’d both be sitting on that couch together engaging eachother. Now she can flip open her phone and have access to a million other guys putting on the illusion that they’re doing things a million times more exciting than you are in that moment.

These are a lot of dynamics that have escalated and warped/changed over the last 10 years and need to be understood and addressed for any kind of serious “how to realistically make a relationship work long-term for the sake of having kids etc” discussion to take place.

“Have I missed any?”

That’s most of it. The general frame is just full belief that you’re better than those guys (and the behaviors that come from that…would you really send a butthurt txt about the low-value guy she’s trying to make you jealous about if you weren’t a little ego-hurt that she’d even consider that guy competition with you, and where does that little ego-hurt stem from in your internal belief system about your value and her value etc), and keep yourself as the dangling string the cat keeps leaping for instead of the string laying on the ground that the cat gets bored by while her social media and hobby/work environment shows her a million other more exciting looking dangling strings.

Most of that is hard to do once you’re tied to her via a legal contract like marriage or by having kids. So we have to figure out how to make a pLTR with no legal attachment work if we want guys to be able to have and raise kids with the maximum chance at their LTR lasting in this 2016+ era.


YaReally
on August 22nd, 2016 at 9:02 pm
Original Link

@walawala
“The second learning is to know that the old pua boyfriend destroyer strategies DONT work on orbiters.”
“Right because they are not sexual threats… so don’t acknowledge them as such.”

This. BFDs are named what they’re named for a reason…they’re for destroying actual competition (99.9999% of orbiters aren’t competition, but every 0.00001% or so is a guy you should legitimately destroy, but they’re so rare, and usually they’re the guy that isn’t actually orbiting her, she’s orbiting him, and complaining that like oh this guy at work is such a jerk and pisses her off etc, THAT’S the guy you wanna reframe shit into him being a chode lol and even THEN how you react to her mentioning him is going to help her figure out what his exact value is (see my post about the Good Will Hunting scene where the girls are watching how the guys react to eachother))

Don’t elevate the value of that 99.99999% her orbiters by treating them AS actual competition and cause her to take a second glance at them because she’s pinging off you and clearly you know something about them that she doesn’t know and her hamster starts looking for value in them that she didn’t see before when you were unreactive to them.

“My soft nexts haven’t resulted in meaningful behavioural changes and I’ve usually had to break it off or they leave.”

Usually (and I’m not picking on you ’cause you’ve gotten much better at this compared to back when you were falling for the rolodex shit, this is just an overall instructional thing for everyone on Soft Nexts) this is the result of either:

1) not executing a Soft Next IMMEDIATELY…most guys will receive shitty behavior from a girl, then try their OWN “I got this bro” instinctive method to turn it around (which doesn’t work), or get into a fight or get reactive about it or let it go for a day or two or try some OTHER tactic to turn things around that just lowers their value, and THEN decide “ok none of this is working, NOW I’ll try a Soft Next”, which is inherently not understanding how to execute a Soft Next (aka re-read Blackdragon’s How To Soft Next guide and pay closer attention to the exact execution method). The Soft Next happens as soon as the bad behavior happens, not days later when she’s flaking or won’t return your txts (“oh NOW I’ll Soft Next her” lol no SHE Soft Next’ed YOU)

2) not executing a Soft Next from a place of high-value to the girl…which relates to point 1, where the guy lowers his value by responding (and failing) with OTHER methods and THEN tries to Soft Next, but it can also be a situation where the guy just doesn’t have as much value to the girl as he thought he did which was a miscalibration on his part…exactly the same as doing a backturn or disqualifier on a girl who isn’t in A2 yet, she doesn’t CARE if you walk away or disqualify her, she isn’t attracted enough. So if you’re trying a Soft Next when she’s already executing bad behavior because she doesn’t view you as high-value/respect you/want/desire you, then she doesn’t CARE that you Soft Next her

3) breaking the Soft Next because you’re in scarcity and caved and “just send ONE little reply when I was drunk and lonely” No, fucker, you just fucked up the Soft Next and now you’re starting over and extending the length of it at BEST, losing the girl at worst. Check my archives for walawala’s journey through the rolodex fails with his crazy ex who kept suckering him into reacting and having to start over.

4) her not understanding WHY she’s being Soft Nexted. Again see Blackdragon’s guide…she has to understand that the Soft Next is a direct result of her shitty actions and not just you being moody a few days later. That’s why you do it right away, so that she sees a direct cause/effect of her actions and your Soft Nexting her. You can also do shit like “you know, that thing you did at the party, that was a big turnoff, I dunno I just thought you were different from other girls…” and then Soft Next (this is one of the ways to recover if you fucked up and didn’t Soft Next immediately so that you wouldn’t have to explain your actions and the dynamics to her which makes it feel less organic/natural and more like a technique if you fuck up your wording/calibration on explaining…ie – don’t walk the tightrope if you don’t have to). She can’t change behavior she doesn’t know is crossing your boundaries just like a dog doesn’t know why you’re hitting it with a newspaper if you wait till the next morning after it poops on the couch to come out of nowhere and smack it, it just thinks you’re a crazy/abusive owner and will continue to poop on the couch while you continue to get frustrated that it isn’t “learning”.

No idea which if any of those apply to your situation, but re-think the flow of what happened in each of your Soft Nexts and whether one or more of these 4 fuckups applied to it to cause the result you’re getting, and be aware of this stuff in the future.

“The orbiter thing only recently hit me when I got the “you’re acting like a jealous bf” text which was revealing for how a girl thinks.”

The “which you have no intention to be” thing is the important part. That’s her passive-aggressively telling you she wants you to be her boyfriend. Girls do this shit all the time…”well we better not do that, or else people might think we’re a COUPLE which you don’t want to be” lol

@mega_guy
“It’s actually worse that what he pointed out. See, people are “thinking” by orbiters it is meant actual PEOPLE that she meets and knows in real life; friends, coworkers, etc. As Really points out, those days are mostly in past because these days her Orbiters are VIRTUAL ORBITERS … they are not people she actually knows, they are FB friends, Tinder swipes, or instagram or twitter associates and of course there are OKC, POF, Match, etc. We all know about online dating and how that game works … women, even fat, old post wall women get dozens, hundreds of emails practically every day.”

This. And the rest of your post is a must-read follow-up to my post.

“every one of these expressions of interest is POTENTIALLY a higher value male”

Right. They AREN’T higher-value, but she doesn’t KNOW that until she TESTS them, because they’re putting on their best front to ACT like a higher-value male. They put up photos of them on a yatch and in a nice suit and at the gym and the write their best profile to sound adventurous and cool, and really he’s a chode, but her hindbrain thinks “…but what if it IS real…” because it WANTS it to be real, so you aren’t even competing with the guy, you’re competing with his presentation of his best possible image and, until she interacts with him and SEES that he’s not hanggliding and shit every day, 99% of the time he’s just a generic chode, her hindbrain HAS to keep that potential chance on its radar because it’s hardwired to trade up if she CAN find better.

“So, you are in constant competition with a ghost.”

This. If her husband was alive she might see his flaws in time, but because he’s not there, she can imagine that he’s perfect. Same with the virtual orbiters…until they actually interact with them and SEE their flaws, she can fill in the blanks in the way she WANTS to fill them in.

The exact same dynamic happens when guys date/marry my alpha widows…I’m just some random bum, if some girl I banged a few times and had a little New Relationship Energy-stage summer romance adventure with tries seeing some other guy, that guy will almost inevitably end up being more boring to her in time than I’ll be. Because she’s seeing him all the time and taking away all the mystery of his lifestyle and seeing all his flaws etc. Whereas she’ll always remember me as all those high notes, and she won’t see that I’m just as boring as that guy day to day…she’ll just ASSUME that I’m being as awesome as I was with her, with other girls, 24/7. So I won’t become less attractive to her, but her guy will…that’s why the LSNFTEs come back like 99% of the time.

So it’s the same thing with the orbiters. You might be exciting, but in a relationship, especially a legally-bound 40 year marriage, you’re going to have downtime and off-times and times where you lose your mojo, times where you’re stressed, you’re going to lose your looks (which will affect your confidence if you’ve based your confidence ON your externals), maybe take some financial hits in life, have drama in your social/work circles, you’ll have weak moments like family members dying and illnesses hitting you, etc etc While she’s watching you go through all that, the CEO guy from work that flirts with her is putting up another pic of him travelling to Europe and trying fancy wines and messaging her about how he wishes he could find a wife as amazing as her that he could treat way better than you treat her, you and your abusive dread-game ways…meanwhile that guy is doing the same shit as you day to day, but her hindbrain doesn’t fill that in because it WANTS him to be a badass alpha she can switch to to optimize her biological goals.

“So YaReally raises a hugely important question: Orbiter Management: is it even possible ?”

This is why I bring it up. DisgruntledEarthling brings up a good point that it might NOT be solvable…like, at the same time we’re applying Dread, that Dread is being villified from EVERY OTHER SOURCE OF INFLUENCE in her life lol Like, girls may be quicker to LSNFTE now because they have so many options easily available. She can post about it on the /relationships/ forum on reddit anonymously and get 500 cat ladies telling her “break it off omg he’s abusive get out of there you can do so much better girlfriend!!” VS pre-tech where she’d have the input of a handful of social circle girlfriends who also had limited options available compared to the social media era and may tell her to focus on learning to please him to get him to commit VS just bailing the second she’s unhaaaaaappy.

“Many times they don’t (pride, she actually gets what she needs from an orbiter, later dumps that orbiter and so on, so on … CC).”

Ya this is getting more common. In the past she’d LSNFTE and try a few guys, see the selection was shit, and come back tail between her legs. But now she can go on 50 Tinder dates in a month with 50 different doctors lawyers 6-pack guys etc that are ALL a potential winning lottery ticket to her hindbrain.

It’s important for the guy in that scenario to understand that she’s often not even leaving you for another GUY, she’s choosing the POTENTIAL LOTTERY TICKET over YOU. So if/when she DOES come back, you should be treating her as the lowest rung on your fuckbuddy ladder, she doesn’t get to be your first mate again…she chose NOTHING over you lol

And the guy has to understand that she’s not coming back out of a DESIRE for him. She’s coming back because she COULDN’T FIND BETTER. Like, that’s an insult lol She’s going “oh well I might as well SETTLE for you because I THOUGHT I could do better but it turns out I was retarded, I GUESS I’ll settle for you NOW” She’s indicating to you that if you DO commit to her, she’s going to probably bail on you if she finds better options, she’s not even TRYING to hide the fact that you didn’t have enough value to her to keep her from chasing that lottery ticket, so what makes you think you’re going to not only raise your value to her so you get DESIRE sex through your committed LTR from then on but that you aren’t going to lose your value again as she gathers more and more virtual orbiters.

So if you take her back, she doesn’t get to come back and the relationship is back on like before. She has to earn that spot in your life back, if she even CAN after such a big diss. Girls are mindblown by this, they usually expect to be able to resume as if nothing happened. (this is for the LTR guys, as a fuckbuddy guy I don’t care why she comes back, I’m not planning to settle with her lol)

“NOW: ask yourself this, since she pulled this stunt once … It will ONLY be a matter of time till she does so again. Do you want her back ?”

This. Like Patrice O’Neal says “she can go fuck some other guy if she wants, I don’t care, but right now she’s the Queen, she has the keys to my apartment…if she fucks some other guy then she gets demoted back to “ho status” with the other hos, and she don’t want that.”

@walawala
“Here’s a strategy girls use to get you to be an orbiter. They give out their numbers. That’s why a number close isn’t necessarily the mark of pua. Converting that number into a bang is the trick.”

I’m pretty much done with numbers personally. I’ll take one if I have no choice, but I’ll time bridge like crazy and try to build enough attraction that SHE number closes me, but even THEN I hate it and push for the meet ASAP and it’s an uphill battle because just being in her phone means banging me isn’t as urgent as it would have been if I had just avoided the number close so that she’d have to come home with me that night and fuck her.

“Signs you’re an orbiter include questions about “What do you think of this new outfit?” “What can I do to improve my [insert activity/job title here]””

Ya, I had a regular FB recently start sending me just stupid pics of her day that she Snapchats to other guys. Like some food she was eating or a funny thing she saw. I just ignore that shit. The more mindless go-nowhere friendy texting you do, the more you put yourself in the orbiter frame. But I respond to sexual stuff she text and all my texts are laced with innuendo and pushing toward a meet-up or getting naked pics out of her etc So even after you’ve banged them they’ll still TRY to see if you’ll fall into an orbiter frame, it’s just their natural testing of your frame. She’s even commented that she knows I won’t respond to that stuff lol


YaReally
on August 23rd, 2016 at 4:36 pm
Original Link

@Blaximus
“Yeah. I can hear YaReally already…lol.”

I don’t know why you keep making me hit you, baby. You know I don’t like it when I have to do this.

I bring to the table a discussion about the REALITY that guys LTR’ing up hot young <25yo pooon in 2016 and beyond, for a long-term having kids settling down relationship, are facing. Maybe we can make some fucking progress and give guys a road-map to navigate the changes in society.

But of course, in come the old guys to squash that discussion with "JUST BE ALPHA BRUH. JUST TELL HER NOT TO HAVE ORBITERS. AND IF SHE HAS THEM, THEN SHE'S VETTED OUT." and muddy the waters.

How about you and Sentient and SJF answer these 3 questions:

1) How old is your wife?

2) How much sex have you had in your life, and how do you think that compares to the average 18yo guy and his ability to "not take girls seriously" or to turn down available pussy when he's been thirsty for 18+ years (hi Softek)?

3) How many <25yo hotties have you fucked and converted into monoLTRs since 2014? Not talked to and chatted with and "could totally get her bro" but actually pulled home and fucked and gotten into a monogamous LTR situation with, in the last 2 years?

4) How many individual <25yo 7+/10 girls have you had fucking you, consistently, for 10+ years, as of about 2014 (around when Tinder fully hit its stride in the mainstream)? Hint: mathematically even if you got 10 of those girls sucking your dick on Jan 1st of 2014, and managed to pull off all your "stop talking to your orbiters, delete all your social media account, delete your FACEBOOK account, that you use to keep in touch with your fucking FAMILY, because THAT won't trigger them being worried about you being in an abusive relationship at all" shit you're touting, you could only have kept them around monogamously sucking your dick regularly for at the MOST 2 years. I'm talking about LONG-TERM shit here. How the fuck do guys HAVE KIDS with <25yo hotties in 2016.

5) How many individual <25yo 7+/10 girls have you successfully gotten to delete all their social media accounts and stop talking to any of their orbiters and other men 24/7, for a 10+ year long relationship starting in 2014? Hint: again, mathematically at BEST this could be 2 years of data, and I specifically stressed the LONG-TERM in my post, like the lulls and downtimes in an LTR/marriage outside of the New Relationship Energy first year or two, you know, the shit that would be relevant if you were a guy in 2016 wanting to settle down and have kids with a 7+/10 in 2016. Sentient? That <25yo stripper you got on lockdown, you got her to delete all her social media? How long has she been monogamous to you, 10+ years now? You enter a legal marriage contract with her and pop out some kids so you can't leave her easily? Tell us all about how you pulled that off and how it's now the year 2024 where you can say your method actually worked on a <25yo 7+/10 in 2014+.

See here's what you old guys are basically saying to young men:

1) commitment is possible under the right circumstances (I agree, but those circumstances no longer exist except maybe in Amish communities…you will NOT have those circumstances with a <25yo 7+/10 girl in 2016, everything in society is working AGAINST those circumstances where it's possible, existing)

2) if she won't get rid of her orbiters, don't commit to her (my original post's point was THEY ALL HAVE ORBITERS. You will NOT find a <25yo 7+/10 girl in 2016 who doesn't have at least a dozen orbiters, if she's an 8 or 9+ especially if she's outgoing and social, she will have literally hundreds of orbiters, possibly thousands if she has social media accounts (which they ALL do in 2016 because it's a normalized part of the culture now))

3) if she doesn't delete her Tinder, Facebook, etc and just follow your authentic alpha male rules, then don't commit to her (NONE of them will, is what we're trying to get through your head)

These are all GREAT RULES. They were fantastic back in your day. You know what they are NOW? A ROAD-MAP TO NEVER SETTLING DOWN OR HAVING AN LTR WHERE YOU CAN SAFELY HAVE KIDS AND KEEP THE GIRL AROUND LONG-TERM.

You are telling guys "screen a girl out for all these new things that EVERY <25yo 7+/10 girl does". Do you GET that? The question those guys have is how do they get a girl to settle down with and have kids, and you are telling them to screen girls out for EVERYTHING GIRLS ALL DO IN 2016. You are basically telling them "guess what, you CAN'T settle down and have kids anymore, because ALL OF THESE GIRLS ARE SCREENED OUT by our guidelines".

What I'm saying is these guys don't HAVE a selection of hot <25yo girls who DON'T have social media in 2016 and won't delete all of their social media (including Facebook where their family keeps in touch with them, LinkedIn where they connect for business stuff, etc) and won't quit their HR job in an office surrounded by other men, etc.

So how can we give them the best odds at dealing with that shit so they can still settle and have kids.

You're sitting there going "JUST SCREEN FOR GIRLS THAT DON'T HAVE IT OR MAKE THEM DELETE IT!!!" Being old-man-stubborn not GETTING that that's not how society works anymore. You are out of touch and squashing necessary discussion by not grasping how much things have changed.

Sure there's like, a couple smokin hot girls per city who don't use any form of social media and don't have a job working around men and don't leave their house to go out ever, but is that REALISTIC? For the majority of men? To search for that unicorn? And is it REALISTIC that that unicorn, during a 40+ year marriage full of ups and downs and boredom and fights and weak moments for the man, is going to STAY off social media and never leave the house? No, that's fantasy land shit.

Your solutions are not SOLUTIONS. You just recommend SCREENING girls out for everything that 99.99999% of hot girls DO in 2016. That's not a fucking solution, that's just telling guys to give up on the idea that they can settle down because of 100 girls that young guy in 2016 meets, 100 of them will not pass your screening.

Re-read that again: 100% of girls that a guy in 2016 meets will NOT pass your guys' screening.

She won't delete all her social media accounts including the "harmless" ones like Facebook and LinkedIn etc that serve a purpose outside of hooking up, she won't ditch all her orbiters, she won't quit her job working around high-value men, she won't stop taking/posting selfies for her friends to see (coincidentally on social media sites where men exist), she won't do any of that shit. And if she DOES, you'll either trigger her entire social/family network trying to gaslight her into thinking she's being abused, or she'll do it for a year or two during the New Relationship Energy stage, until she gets bored and you've committed to not being able to leave her easily, and then she'll be back at it, ie – 10 years after you've had kids etc together.

If your solution is "well if she won't do that, then don't have kids with her", you are telling men to go hunt a unicorn that exists even less now than it did in your day, and basically advising men not to have kids anymore because they WILL NOT find the type of girl you're describing (except maybe in an Amish community).

Do we gotta wait for you guys to kick the bucket before we can actually discuss realistic solutions for guys in 2016 without you getting all ego-defensive about "BRO WUT IS ALL THIS NEGATIVITY JUST LAY DOWN THE LAW BRO IF U GOT VALUE U CAN LAY DOWN THE LAW BRO TRUST ME I BANGED A <25YO SMOKIN HOT GIRL WHO HAD NO ORBITERS AT ALL FOR A WHOLE YEAR (SURE SHE DIDN'T DELETE HER FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM BUT I TOTES COULD'VE TOLD HER TO) AND FLIRTED WITH A GIRL IN A BAR ONCE WHO I TOTES COULD'VE MADE DELETE HER INSTAGRAM ACCOUNT AND NOT USE SOCIAL MEDIA FOR 40+ YEARS"

Tell you old guys what. Blax, Sentient and SJF:

Here's an experiment: Spend this next year (you got a whole year, TONS of time to work out the kinks) flirting with <25yo girls and trying to get them to delete Tinder and Instagram and Facebook in front of you (not your daughters lol I mean, unless they're fucking you lol Because you are automatically an authority figure over your daughters, I'm talking about random girls you meet).

Not even committing to you monogamously, not even sucking your dick, literally nothing but just tapping a few buttons on their phone.

See how that goes. When you can successfully consistently get them to do that, THEN tell us how your awesome advice (that I agree worked in your day) still works in 2016.

Until then, I heart you but you're spouting jockey theory instead of accepting the reality that kfg explained nicely here:

"Right, and I have pointed out here on any number of occasions that the system works, and works well, when, and only when, men push back.

However, have you tried that, as a single man, with an 18 year old 9.5 lately? I have the perspective of having been where you were, but also where they are.

You might find you’re not hip to the hepcats, daddio. You have become a stranger in a strange land, without ever having gone anywhere.

It is the land that bends."

Guys need solutions for the way the land has bent. If you don't have reference experiences bending that land back, your advice is useful but only to an extent and then it needs supplementation with real advice that's field-tested in 2016.

You know what might make guys talk more POSITIVELY about settling down and having kids type long-term relationships? If we could actually come up with some fucking solutions for how to make that HAPPEN, with high-odds stacked in the guys' favor, in 2016, instead of this "JUST BE ALPHA BRO, her family won't even care that you've had her delete her Facebook so they can't easily keep in touch with her which because of feminism everyone knows is the number one sign of being an abuser like that Johnny Depp, cutting her off from her support network" fantasy fluff that's trying to convince guys 2016 exactly the same as 1982.

@scray
I'd call that slow-track (BradP) more than orbiting. Orbiting would be txting her daily and not getting anything out of it…you're just keeping the line of communication open as you pass through other girls' windows until you happen to pass by hers and there's a conveniently open window. Different frame than orbiting where they're trying to force a window open or staring through the glass like a sad puppydog hoping it opens (often with that girl their ONLY focus lol)


YaReally
on August 23rd, 2016 at 6:19 pm
Original Link

@walawala
“@YaReally Indeed getting a 20’s girl to delete her Facebook/Tinder etc is not going to happen.”

These guys are fucking delusional. She posted a pic of her with her grandma 4 years ago and got 40 likes and comments, now she’s going to delete her Facebook, delete all her MEMORIES, say “bye grandma, I’m deleting my facebook” “why?” “this guy I’m dating told me to”, and that’s NOT going to trigger any kind of interference from her family/friends? fucking lol

“Hey granddaughter, how’s the new baby that I don’t get to see because I live in another part of the country.” “Oh I’d like to show you but my man will leave me if I use social media” “THAT’S TOTALLY NORMAL, I AM NOT WORRIED ABOUT THAT AT ALL, I HOPE HE MAKES YOU QUIT YOUR JOB WORKING AROUND HIGH-VALUE MEN TOO!”

“However…some of the 23 year olds I’ve met on OKC once I start banging them delete their profiles or suspend them temporarily…..some don’t.”

Ya, they get rid of the obvious hookup apps, during the New Relationship Energy stage. What about 10 years from when you started dating, after you’ve had a kid and legal marriage contract and can’t leave her and you’ve been sick or jobless for a bit or she’s been feeling bored and neglected and sees an ad for Ashley Madison and articles on “having it all” promoting having a secret alpha fuckbuddy on the side while simultaneously every guy she works with is trying to stick his dick in her?

Did she ditch all her male friends, her snapchat, her instagram, her linkedin, her tinder, her whatsapp, really delete the messaging app on her phone pretty much, block every guy from emailing her, stop going on any internet forum where men might be around, quit her job working around men, etc?

No, of course she didn’t. That’s my point. That won’t happen now. Social media isn’t some “fad” like sending out smoke signals to another caveman was in these guys’ day. Social media is not going away. Tinder will die, but the “non-hookup” ones like facebook, linkedin, internet forums, etc will ALWAYS EXIST FOREVER FROM NOW ON. We have to accept this before we can have any kind of realistic discussion about how to get men to be able to safely reproduce in as stable a long-term mother/father arrangement with 2016 girls as possible.

The reason you won’t get them to delete all this shit is because this stuff ENHANCES THEIR ABILITY TO ACHIEVE THEIR BIOLOGICAL GOALS. LinkedIn is her way of “networking for her career” where she can meet high-value men or get a job around high-value men. Facebook is her way to “keep in touch with friends and family” while actually being a way of expanding her social circles to have access to a wider variety of men who may be higher-value men. Instagram is her way of “documenting her funny girls’ night out memories with her BFF besties!!!! xoxoxo❀ <3" while also allowing men from around the world to contact her.

When you tell her to delete these things, you are telling her to cut off potential access to AAA celeb level high-value men. And you are gonna KEEP her off those things for a 40+ year marriage, through thick and thin, ups and downs, periods where you're not at your full game because you have work stress or illness or let yourself feel a little bit of scarcity?

Fucking dream world shit. Hey, here's how to cure half the diseases in the world: just eat a perfect diet and never eat sugar or drink or smoke or do drugs or anything and workout every day. How well has THAT advice held up in a culture pushing and unhealthy shit on everyone and normalizing the eating of junk food or booze etc?

I agree this advice works in the right circumstances, but those circumstances DON'T EXIST ANYMORE. It's time to wake up and address that if we want to give young men and future generations of men an ACTUAL realistic plan in 2016.

@Sentient
"question – if your answer here,How many <25yo hotties have you fucked and converted into monoLTRs since 2014? is also zero (assumed from your writings)… are we are the same footing?"

Yup. Except that I'M saying "it's not possible to execute your advice anymore…it was possible until social media picked up speed, but now the circumstances that allow your advice to work have been dismantled by the evolution of society, tons of guys have tried your advice and it's fallen flat…does anyone here know any guy, pickup or not, red pill or not, who's had a monogamous <25yo HB7+/10 girlfriend for even 2 years without her having any contact with other men, no facebook, no instagram, no linkedin, no snapchat, no tinder, no internet forum posting, she has nothing at all for social media (and not just never HAD it but grew up with it and then DELETED it all for him), for that 2 years, and is still fucking him daily? How about we discuss how to realistically give guys a way to make that happen with the best odds possible by addressing the realities of a hot <25yo girl in 2016?"

While YOU'RE admitting that no, you HAVEN'T had that. But TRUST ME BROS this is the answer!! Just be a boss!! I mean, I haven't DONE it or nothin, you know, I did it with this other girl from another era which falls outside of the question YaReally asked and the reality guys are dealing with now (unless that mid-20s guy in 2016 is going to travel back in time to fuck you wife's social circle), and I mean, I was with this hot young chick but she didn't delete all her social media acconuts for me BUT TRUST ME BRO I FEEL LIKE IT WOULD THEORETICALLY WORK IF YOU WERE JUST BOSS ENOUGH.

Guess what: that's jockey theory. It's NOT field tested. And when it IS field tested, it falls flat. That's why I issue the challenge: go out this year, mack the <25yo 7+/10 crowd and get them to delete their Facebook, Tinder, Snapchat, and Instagram in front of you. If you can do it consistently, then your advice is solid and I will be first in line to listen.

If you CAN'T do that, and HAVEN'T done that, your advice is theory at best, and goes against BASIC LOGIC.

I mean can you even explain how she's going to tell her friends she's deleting all their memories off Instagram without triggering them whispering in her ear about how she's in an abusive relationship? Please, we're all ears. You've done it SO MANY TIMES because you're recommending such ROCK SOLID ADVICE.


YaReally
on August 23rd, 2016 at 7:26 pm
Original Link

@SJF
“I’m not here to talk about picking up <25 year old hotties and settle down with them and have children with them because they can."

Cool, so who's your advice aimed for and for what goals exactly? What relevance does it have to an 18-30yo man in 2016? Are you admitting it has no relevance, because that's my point. Talk about whatever you want, but understand that you're talking about a world that this generation and the next do not and will not live in and they need to understand that.

"And ask: How did that happen? What were keys to that artist’s success?"

The keys were the artist was working with material that no longer exists.

@kfg
"You have a clue, you just haven’t unwrapped it yet."

How the fuck did we get to a situation where "this makes me feel bad feels" is an acceptable reason to not discuss something relevant to helping young men and future generations of men achieve biological success? I enjoy the PUA life (though I accept that one day I MIGHT want to have a kid), but I hope other guys don't HAVE to live the PUA lifestyle forever 'cause I know lots of guys who'd LOVE to settle down and have kids with a chick but they can't fucking find one because the culture has shifted to where they aren't surrounded by these unicorns. That's just reality.

These men have NO GUIDANCE FOR HOW TO ACHIEVE THAT. The shit the old guys are recommending falls flat in 2016. They can't even get it to work THEMSELVES, as Sentient is about to hamster-dance rationalize around.

A simple challenge: get <25yo HB7/10s that want to fuck you (aka not your daughters who you have default authority over lol) to delete their social media accounts in front of you. Report back with how many did it and what accounts they deleted (did they just delete their OKCupid but not their Facebook?). You got a year to do it. You're so sure of yourselves, execute and show us all how it's done so I can quit making these posts pointing out this is theory jockey bullshit. If any of you can consistently do it, I'll be the FIRST ONE to say "woah hey, I was wrong, please teach us so we can learn from how you did this magic!"

But none of you have done it, or will do it. And even if you do it for a year or two, while she's in the New Relationship Energy stage, 10 years from now that smokin hot HB9.5 21yo will be a smokin hot HB8.5-9 31yo with all her friends and family on social media wondering why she isn't on it and why they can't see photos of her new baby and why she had to stop talking to her best guy friend from high school who they're all still friends with because of the controlling guy she's dating now.

It is armchair theory. Sorry.

"And nobody misunderstand that I’m saying old married guys are doing it wrong. You guys are just great.

But single guys today are out in the field with young women who never owned a Compact Disc, a DVD, a desktop computer or a book, because they have had an iPhone/Pad from about the time they were potty trained.

And that stuff to them is like Edison cylinders were to us when we were their age.

Buggy whips weren’t the only thing that died along with the buggy. So did buggy game. People don’t pitch woo any more."

This. Things have changed. Your advice on how to fix a first generation Ford car has vague relevance of the overall IDEA for how to fix a modern computerized car ("wheels go around, steering wheels make them turn") but you're probalby not going to disassemble and reassemble a Tesla with a wrench.

@SJF
"I see a lot of frustration sub-communicated here."

The frustration is in your guys' inability to see past your own solipsistic experience of a different time period and culture, because it sets guys dealing with a different reality down an ineffective path that WILL get them burned, with advice that isn't even field-tested with the girls they're selecting from in 2016.

"Monogamy is an option and so is polyamory and so is serial monogamy."

There is no such thing as Monogamy anymore, unless the girl has no social media accounts at all, no real access to technology, and doesn't work in an environment with men or have social circles that include men.

@stuffinbox
"if she won’t commit to you enough to shut down the orbiters def don’t commit to her"

Just save yourself the words and shorten it to "don't ever get into an LTR or commit or try to have kids, accept that you'll be single and childless forever", because that's what your advice translates to in 2016. SHE WILL NOT SHUT DOWN THE ORBITERS in 2016. She may reject them, they may not be actual sexual threats, she may just use them for amusement and validation, but they will ALWAYS BE THERE. You will NEVER get a <25yo 7+/10 girl in 2016 to delete all over her orbiters and social media account. The only guys saying it's possible are guys who haven't even done it themselves.

"although the last time I had to do this was at least 25 yrs ago"

This is my point. This is GOOD ADVICE. You SHOULDN'T commit to a girl who doesn't delete all her social media for you. But NO GIRL WILL DO THAT in 2016…so if you want civilization to stop right here and now, then this advice is GREAT. But if we want this generation of men and the next generations to be able to reproduce and have SOME shot at having some kind of long term relationship to raise a kid with a dual mother/father dynamic, then how about we start figuring out how to work around or within the 2016 culture where every <25yo 7+/10 girl has male friends and social media and often works in male spaces, instead of ducking our heads in the sand?

@Blaximus
"Damn bro, did you crack your knuckles before typing that? Lol, I heart you anyway…"

Actually yes lol I'm not hating on you guys and your advice. It's GOOD ADVICE. You SHOULD disqualify girls who aren't proper LTR material. But the reality is NONE OF THEM ARE PROPER LTR MATERIAL NOW, going by the old standards of what's acceptable/not acceptable, because of how society has normalized and encouraged shit in these young chicks turning 18 in this 2016 culture. So following the old rules means these guys will NEVER GET TO HAVE KIDS EVER.

Sure there's some rare unicorn here and there but that doesn't do the MILLIONS of guys looking to safely have kids and a stable 20+ year relationship with a woman any good. I'm looking for a plan on how to help those guys deal make do with the shitty cards they've been dealt. You're saying just keep folding the cards until you pull up pocket Aces…there are NO ACES IN THE DECK ANYMORE lol If we don't come up with solutions, all these guys are going to be forced into my lifestyle whether they want it or not.

"What I am proposing in 2016 is that guys stop just accepting any and everything that’s placed before them. Why not say that you don’t like a girl using an assload of dating/social media apps? That’s my issue in a nutshell, the whole ” Well, I have to eat this shit or stay all alone forever ” mindset."

Again, dude, you don't GET how widespread this is. There ARE NO <25yo GIRLS 7+/10 in 2016 that don't use social media apps. That's my point. You're stuck in this oldschool mindset of "well just ditch her thing", but THEY ARE ALL THAT WAY NOW.

So you are telling that guy "just be single forever" because NONE of those girls he meets are going to pass that screen in 2016. Maybe like, Rollo and your daughters don't use social media or have facebook or linkedin or snapchat or post on the internet or anything, but we can't all fuck your guys' daughters and we aren't going to have MORE daughters if guys can't figure out a way to safely do that in this culture with the shit sandwich they're dealt.

Like does that make sense? You come from a time when half the cupcakes were blue and half were red and you learned not to eat the red ones just eat the blue ones. But guys now live in a time where the ENTIRE TRAY is red and you're saying "bro only eat the blue ones, if it's red, don't eat it" and that was fine in your day but now that means these guys will starve to death.

And the advice is coming from guys who are still holding onto their blue cupcake from 20+ years ago, who have never found and kept around a 2016 blue cupcake in the way that they were able to with their 20+ years ago one, and they're laying down authoritatively "this is how it works bro". It's a different reality now.

"That’s why I’ve been posting about the negativity and apathy in the comments."

Uncomfortable truths often seem negative. But blowing smoke and sunshine up guys' asses won't actually prepare them for reality.

"It’s like guys just don’t know what to do at all, and I’m giving what input I can."

And I appreciate it, but understand that it has limited application now. YOU GUYS haven't even field tested it with girls, at most you could have field tested it with a girl for a couple years, but are ANY of you getting monogamous dick-sucking from a 7+/10 <25yo who's deleted all her social media and quit her job working around men for you? No? None of you have? Then it's THEORY, and when guys go out and apply it they run into the shit walawala is talking about where girls go "oh they're just FRIENDS" and guys have to walk away from the girl, except that they'll have to walk away from ALL GIRLS FOREVER.

If we can just accept that things have changed and there are new variables in the formula to consider for how to apply this shit (like can ANY of you address how to even GET her to delete her Facebook with all her grandma's photos on it? Anyone? And can ANY of you address how to handle when her family and friends all ask her WHY she's deleted their memories? Anyone? No? Because you haven't had to deal with that before? HUH WEIRD), then MAYBE we can come up with a solution for the next generaitons of men who, as you say, have no idea what to do.

But when I bring up the topic, the old guys come out of the woodwork to post Madonna videos trying to imply that nothing in social conditioning has changed (which goes against our own host's articles on the push for open hypergamy etc), and talk about how marriage and monogamy are a fork in the road a man should take, and how this talk is too negative wah wah.

"I think if the bulk of younger guys really understood how things used to be, maybe, just maybe, enough of them would start to put their feet down and demand better."

Ya, I'd love for that fantasy world to exist too. In that world everyone would eat healthy, exercise daily, be kind and nice to everyone around them, etc But that reality doesn't exist. You don't tell some guy to walk into a ghetto flashing a wad of bills around because back in your day living in a ritzy part of town no one would jump you. We gotta deal with the same REALITY that millions of men in this next generation and beyond will be dealing with.

"And the ” screening ” thing, I do believe it is very helpful and I think guys do a shitty job of it"

Ya it's AWESOME, guys SHOULD screen for certain qualities, but the things you guys want them to screen for mean that EVERY 7+/10 25 yo to give up their social media.”

Then can you understand why I say “Lmao, that shit’s crazy in my mind. I give clear instruction ONCE and that should suffice. No guys hanging around or texting or facebullshitting or whatever” is armchair theory, not ACTUALLY field-tested in 2016?

If you guys were out doing this shit all the time consistently and it was working, awesome, I’d say hey everyone listen to these guys. But you AREN’T. And the guys that TRY it either get the “they’re just friends (or it’s harmless or for business/family/BFF girlfriends/etc)” excuses and have to screen the girl out (which is ALL THE GIRLS, which means NO KIDS FOR ANYONE), or the girl does parts of it (like deleting the obvious hookup accounts, while keeping the more subtle ones like facebook/linkedin/etc) during the New Relationship Energy stage and then goes right back to it the second she’s unhappy/bored (which is going to happen at SOME POINT in 40+ years of living together) or single again.

When it’s field tested in 2016, it FAILS. And none of you guys have ACTUALLY made it work.

“The young chicks I know don’t really do tinder ( I know, I know, but the ones I’ve asked have no reason to hide it ), but they instagram up a shitstorm.”

How many do you know with NO social media at all (not even facebook or snapchat or twitter etc), and who don’t work around men or have males in their social circles? Any? ONE, even?

“The other thing I’m noticing is the boredom thing. Everyone is so fucking BORED. Why is that?”

Oh god, that’s a whole nother essay entirely lol

“Do I think I could get a 20 something to give up her social media? Depends.”

You can THINK whatever you want. But that makes it armchair theory. Can you DO IT is the question. If you can’t DO IT and consistently do it, then it doesn’t hold up. When other guys have tried it, it’s fallen flat. If you haven’t tried and successfully done it consistently, and kept them OFF social media for 20+ years, it is THEORY.

In the old PUA community we had a Tactics/Techniques section where you weren’t even allowed to post a routine unless you’ve successfully used it in-field and gotten a lay from it 3+ times. Until then it was just keyboard theory and we would make fun of a guy for posting what he “thinks” would work. Because 90% of what guys “think” would work doesn’t actually hold up infield. That’s why I issue the challenge…if YOU guys, the guys who believe it works, can’t get it to work or won’t even TRY it, how can anyone listen to you about it?

Think right now about all the women in your life that you know. Now say I told you you had to remove EVERY woman you’ve ever seen using social media of any sort or working around other men or have male orbiters in their contact list on their phone. How many women would be left? Maybe your wife? If YOU aren’t surrounded by these unicorns that don’t use social media, don’t have facebook, have never used Tinder, don’t have any male friends or orbiters, etc, where do you think the millions of men in this generation and the next ones, are going to find these unicorns that pass that screening? They aren’t.

“They social media some, but it doesn’t run their lives.”

It doesn’t have to “run their lives”. Just having it at ALL, even just a dormant account sitting there, is a passive gateway to a wider selection of men for her Hypergamy. Just posting on her facebook wall or posting an Instagram pic a few times a month and working in a space with other men (like HR at an office, or customer service somewhere (except maybe like, a lingerie shop lol) is enough to make things VERY DIFFERENT for a guy monogamously committing to that girl.

“But I already know that I can never, ever flirt with any 20-ish chick and get her to delete any app what-so-ever.”

We don’t know if you CAN, because you haven’t field tested it. Just like Sentient hasn’t. And you can probably get her to delete the blatant hookup apps like OKCupid and Tinder etc, maybe even Instagram, but her facebook, linkedin, twitter, forum accounts, etc? No. Sorry. Do it, and I’ll be happy to tell guys to follow your advice. But if you don’t do it, and can’t do it, and haven’t done it, your advice is just THEORY based on a different culture.

“But if I were 25 and trying to find a real gf, I would push for deletion and see what reactions I get.”

Walawala and I are telling you what reactions you’ll get. They all involve no longer fucking that girl, let alone settling down with her or having kids with her and having her be around and faithful for 40+ years. They involve the girl bailing, her friends interfering, the guy having to disqualify her as a potential LTR (which means no babies) and they’ll ALL do this.

“lmao, but I am encouraging guys to speak up and not just be so accepting of whatever shit chicks have going on.”

And what we’re telling you, from the FIELD, is that this doesn’t work anymore. Unless you REALLY LIKE being single and don’t want to have kids. In 2016 this will just screen out EVERY GIRL. And YOU guys aren’t even making this shit work on <25yo 7+/10s in 2016.

But we still want guys to settle and reproduce and ideally for those kids to have a strong mother/father dynamic, and the first step to helping that happen is to accept what the field is telling us and adapt to it.

"The way I see it, if guys aren’t getting laid or getting into Ltr’s or whatever anyway, why not try a different flavor?"

Because it's not working anymore. Because the open hypergamy culture is normalized now. This is reality in 2016.

"I mean, is it really better for a dude to be hanging out with a chick while she swipes motherfuckers on tinder? Or she hits up some guy on Facefart? Can’t guys have some measure of self respect? That’s all I’m promoting…. or trying to anyway. One step at a time."

I agree completely. And teaching him how to handle those situations is GREAT. But the reality is, and the point of my original post was: those guys are GOING TO EXIST. Facefart is GOING TO EXIST. And it's GOING TO HAVE GUYS ON IT TRYING TO FUCK HER. That's the reality now. Any advice that involves "tell her to delete those apps" doesn't realistically hold up anymore. That was the point of my original post. We have to accept that orbiters, social media, etc, that shit is here to STAY. You can lay down some laws, like don't txt other people when we're hanging out, but the reality is she's not going to remove those people from her life for you, and even if she does it'll be temporary at BEST and that's if it doesn't trigger them all coming in to meddle and save her from the abusive controlling asshole that she can't see you are because you must have gaslit her.

"And no, I absolutely don’t have a viable roadmap for guys to follow in 2016 as far as relationships go."

No one does. And we can't have an honest realistic discussion of it when the response to "girls have thousands of virtual orbiters on their social media accounts that they use to keep in touch with friends and family" is "bro, my wife 20 years ago had an orbiter and I told her to just not invite him over anymore, just do that"

"Oh, and it doesn’t really count, but I have a house filled with 20 somethings that aren’t related to me via DNA, and I make them all put their devices away when they come to visit."

Cool, can you make them delete all their social media and keep them off it for the next 40 years? Or the second they leave your house do they flip open their phone to catch up on all the texts and messages they've missed?

"I still don’t think that most girls are zombified assholes beyond redemption and guidance."

They aren't. But the reality is their world and influences have changed and guys have to understand that and adapt to it. Denying it's changed and sticking to the old "bro just tell them NOT to, just tell them to delete their social media, cuz I told this girl not to use her phone for a few hours and it worked" doesn't hold up for a guy entering a settled-down arrangement to have kids and ideally a long-term mother/father figure in that kid's life.

"So I will partially cop to the ” Jockey Theory ” rap because I’m not actively getting young chicks to tone down or eliminate social media. That’s a job for the younger guys."

That's all I'm asking lol You're the one I harp on the least because I know you at least GET that there's a chance your experience might not have complete relevance and might be a bit jockeyish these days, but guys like Sentient are convinced with NO REFERENCE EXPERIENCE OF IT ACTUALLY WORKING LONG-TERM WHATSOEVER and tons of reference experience from other guys that it DOESN'T work, that they're spouting gold when they're just muddying the waters for young guys trying to figure out how to approach this shit long-term and how they're going to have kids and keep a girl around for 40+ years so THEY can brag about banging a smokin hot HB9/10 65yo too lol

"I just don’t see what the hurt is in trying not to get tangled up with a phone head."

The hurt is that 1) they don't have to be a "phone head" obsessed for it to have an impact, they can be a minor social media user and it still has the same effects I'm talking about, and 2) EVERY hot young girl has that shit now so "not getting tangled up" with them means this next generation and beyond not getting tangled up with ANY girl because they would ALL be screened out.


YaReally
on August 23rd, 2016 at 8:03 pm
Original Link

@walawala @Blaximus
lol I play up the old guy thing. “Oh is that one of those SnapTalk things?” “snapCHAT!! OMG!! You’re so old!!” They love it. But I’m also in-touch enough for that to come across as me being aware of it (from hanging out with young girls like them) but thinking it’s stupid, VS being completely out of touch with modern society (like a guy who doesn’t have any young girls in his life would be lol)

Like I don’t watch any of the shows girls watch and I’ll make fun of the shows as looking dumb, but I’m aware a lot of those shows EXIST…because a guy who’s fucking <25yo girls regularly would just naturally BE aware of those shows existing from casual conversation with girls. Or he has daughters, one of the two lol

@Blaximus
"Orbiters and dating apps especially…. I don’t grasp the attitude that a guy should just be like ” well, that’s the way it is. Nothing I can do or even dare to say..”. It’s like guys are supposed to quietly accept getting punked. "

Because when you disqualify all the hot young <25yo 7+/10 girls who have/use social media or have/will-collect masses of orbiters, you disqualify 100% of the girls in 2016. In 2010 you'd only be disqualifying like 50%. In 2005 you'd only be disqualifying like 10%. Before that probably like 5%. But on that criteria ALONE, in 2016, you're diqualifying 100%.

No one's saying watch her suck another guy's dick. What we're saying is that EVERY hot girl comes with this shit now, it's a package deal, and it's changed things, and we have to work around that. You guys didn't have the same situation back in your day and you aren't trying to fuck and keep these girls around long-term let alone settle and legally marry or have kids with them, which is why it's so hard to relate to. We're telling you what's happening out there.

"After sex you go check for a text from your orbiter or check out what’s up on tinder????"

Most girls will grab their phone after sex, usually 'cause their GF knows they were going to bang a guy and her phone will be like "how was it? omg are you still banging? hello? omg am I interrupting lolol are you still there?? let's get drinks after!" etc from her bestie. Or they'll want to show you some pics from their instagram/facebook of their week or family or stuff they did with their friends etc to build comfort with you.

They're not necessarily whipping out their phone going "I GOTTA SEE IF SOME OTHER DICK WANTS TO STUFF ITSELF IN MY DRIPPING WET PUSSY, YOU CAN WATCH ME TXT THEM!!" but the point is their phones are a normal part of their reality in 2016. You CAN say "hey, put that phone down, when you're with me you're with ME" and be all alpha and shit, but all it's going to do is make her whip her phone out the second she leaves to catch up on her messages and if you tell her "babe, delete that facebook shit, you have ME now" you'll get the "but it's my friends and family!! why are you so jealous/insecure??" and even if she DOES delete it her friends and family will flip their shit thinking she's in an abusive controlling relationship.

Welcome to 2016!

@Blaximus @stuffinbox
"idk they usualy reply so i say about a hundred? Ya about a hundred,the more things change,the more they stay the same"

lol ask the average HB9/10 the same question. Or better yet ask her how many texts she GETS in a weekend.

"There definitely are some good girls out there that don’t play these games,but for the most part the face is in the phone every chance,that overwhelming need for validation,herd instinct,seems to be virtually met with social media."

Again I want to stress that I'm not even talking about the hardcore "face glued to the phone" girls because that's the old mindset of "oh it's just a small percentage of them that are the issue". I'm talking about the average hot girl with a couple social media accounts who doesn't use her phone THAT much and even keeps it turned off when she's with you. That girl WILL have a shit-ton of orbiters and potential monkey branch Hypergamous leads gathering over the weeks and months and years, and she will NOT delete her facebook for you. This is the AVERAGE HOT GIRL.

"Maybe this will pass,maybe not until a black swan emp event,idk but the shit is unhealthy,I mean come on virtual social validation?wtf."

lol @ EMP event. It won't change though, that's my point. This isn't some "fad". Just like the internet isn't going to go away. This shit is here and real now, social media, in some form or another, will exist and it will get worse as the technology gets more convenient and easier to use and higher definition and involves VR shit etc Which is why we should be addressing it instead of pretending it isn't relevant if you just "alpha up bro".

And this isn't even accounting for the effects this stuff will have on the boys in future generation that we want TO "alpha up bro", boys brought up avoiding social interaction for the text screen and raised in a culture where looking at a girl is sexual harrassment and a kangaroo court explusion from college if she doesn't like you.

@Blaximus
"It just seems like an awful perception problem on the part of my fellow man."

It's easy to keep a positive attitude about war when you aren't in the trenches and you're commenting from the safety of a desk in a command center after the war you fought, which was significantly easier, worked out great for you.

Part of the negativity coming from these guys, I would bet, is from no one taking their complaints serious or offering any solutions. It's just "bro in MY day you just tell girls NOT to twerk for strangers in a parking lot and then they become motherly material" that doesn't hold up with the reality they're dealing with.

Part of why I like RSD is that they deal with reality…Snapchat is huge right now so they're teaching guys how to use Snapchat well and how to deal with other guys/orbiters on Snapchat/social media and shit. They aren't sitting there going "BACK IN MY DAY we didn't have that Snapchat shit". Even TYLER has an Instagram account and Snapchat and shit now, because that's the reality these <25yo girls live in.

Does that mean guys have to take up Snapchatting? No, but they should be taught how to deal with the REALITY that EVERY hot young girl they mack on is PROBABLY going to have Snapchat if not instagram if not facebook if not tinder if not other social media. And figure out a way to handle that shit so that one day they can settle and have kids with a girl in a long-term relationship and have that kid have a shot at having a mother/father figure in their life.

"Like, if some catastrophe happened, and we were blown back into the stone age. Who’s gonna get us out of that mess? Who knows how to generate electricity and build a battery to store it? Or even a light bulb? ( LED’s are a taller order…)."

We'd be super fucked lol And if that situation happened and I told you "dude, just order a pizza like I used to" and you said "man, all the pizza shops have BLOWN UP and no phones work" and I was like "I dunno man, that's a pretty negative attitude, see back in my day when civilization was intact I would just pick up a phone and dial a pizza place and they'd deliver some food, so I don't get why you can't just TRY it…sure all your experiences picking up a phone in this apolocalypse have had the phone be dead and same with your friends and family who all try it, and I mean, *I* haven't even picked up one of these phones and successfully dialed a pizza daily for 40+ years, but, you know, I'm sure it's the same thing bro, Madonna ordered a pizza in 1982."

"Particularly in dealing with women today. But if the new ways aren’t getting results….. All I’m sayin’."

We are trying the old ways, we've been trying the old ways, the old ways WORKED up until recently when tinder fully took off, now the old ways fall flat. Times change. But I will be MORE than happy to read your guys' Field Reports of successfully getting 7+/10 <25yo girls in 2016 to delete all their social media accounts including facebook/linkedin/twitter/etc for you, for the next 20+ years. I hope it DOES work, I hope you CAN do it, so we can just prescribe your advice to men and say "look, here's the solution!"

But as we're reporting from the field, it doesn't hold up under testing.

"This is hard for me to wrap my noggin around fully."

I appreciate that you make the effort to understand it instead of the Sentient route lol Like I know you're a smart dude and I know you're able to peek outside the solipsism once in a while to understand changes in the world around you. But I also know it takes repeating my point 20000 times lol

"… uh yeah. I see them on the phone before they clear the front porch actually."

Exactly. So is telling a mid-20s guy in 2016 "just tell her not to use her phone/social media" actually going to solve anything for him? Is that going to hold up for a 40+ year relationship where he raises kids with her, through thick and thin, boring moments, moments where he's lost the frame because he's sick or been fired or loses his looks or whatever, moments where she's unhaaaaappy because they have a fight and her girlfriends all grab a bottle of wine with her and tell her they made her a tinder profile to show her she can get a rich doctor instead of you, etc etc?

I'm looking ahead to what realistic solutions there are for men to accept this shit and work within the new shifts in culture, instead of denying they're happening.

Because the screening you guys are describing means no kids for anyone. And I don't need that much competition out there in the field. πŸ˜‰

"Whew, this shit is harder than the ” social conditioning ” discussions."

lol it's always a mindfuck to have your reality challenged.

@stuffinbox
"You definitely have some great insight into spinning,I just don’t believe that ltrs are dead and gone."

They're not dead and gone. But monogamous LTRs don't exist if she has social media and/or works around men and/or has men in her social circles. And everything that would make a monoLTR work is being sabotaged by the current cultural shifts. And NONE of you guys who don't want to let go of this dream, are making this dream work with <25yo 7+/10 girls raised in this 2016 culture.

I don't want to believe my favorite TV show from the 80s is cancelled, but when I turn on the TV and don't see it, for years, and haven't seen an episode in years, except for the couple episodes I taped back when it first aired, it's time to accept that it's not on the air anymore and I'm going to have to adapt to learning to enjoy what's actually playing on the air now or I'm going to not be watching any TV, ever…and my biology really really really WANTS me to watch some TV lol


YaReally
on August 23rd, 2016 at 9:45 pm
Original Link

@SJF
“Really, YaReally? Your view is that your PUA world is all that can be known to exist. And that is all that matters and the only thing that matters in Red Pill to other commenters, readers and lurkers on Rollo’s blog?”

No, but my impression was that part of the purpose of the site is to guide future generations of men into understanding the red pill realities of the world around them so they can better navigate them and we can have less men putting a noose around their neck (metaphorically and literally).

Like it or not, you and I and most of us here in this forum including Rollo are going to be dead in like <50 years. All that will live on to guide men in the future will be the writing we're doing here.

Personally, I think it's important that that writing focus on helping those future men overcome the challenges they're going to be facing instead of focusing on crying about negativity and bragging about fucking old wrinkled wives from a bygone era. 'cause they aren't learning shit from their fathers, who may not even be around. And we are going to have more and more fatherless children if we can't help guys tackle today's realities and realistically overcome them (making them delete all their social media isn't realistic in 2016).

It's funny to me that I'm sitting here trying to advocate for how do we HELP MEN get into LONG TERM LTRS where they can be with ONE GIRL for a LONG PERIOD OF TIME, to REPRODUCE AND HAVE AND RAISE KIDS in a STABLE MOTHER/FATHER HOUSEHOLD, literally the thing you keep recommending they do, and you're still sitting here shitting on me about "UR OBSESSED WITH PUA GUYS SHOULD ASPIRE TO MORE THAN PUA BRO". No shit dude, that's what I'm trying to bring up, because the old plan of how to make that lifestyle work is outdated and doesn't account for modern realities.

But nope, it's more important to just argue with anything YaReally says than actually think about the topic.

"And you want to poke dissenters to this advocacy to narrow the spectrum of a man’s life (to PUA only) with a sharp stick and out argue old married guys?"

No, I want it to be clear that what they're dissenting with doesn't hold up infield and is based on outdated views of a culture that no longer exists.

"Maybe you should travel to some traditional family oriented communities with professionally employed, and socially animated men and woman."

In other words: NAWALT!!! Game only works on bar sluts!! Only slutty slut sluts will be influenced by culture!! All the girls I know are perfect angles immune to social conditioning and Hypergamy doesn't affect them!!

"And yes it is UMC, if that bothers you, then visit there sometime in your life"

What makes you think I've never been around the UMC crowds? Just because I'm a bum doesn't mean everyone I've hung with and been friends with and been in social circles with is too lol

"I see family, profession, purpose (hobbies), educational pursuits (abstract thinking instead of simple concrete thinking), resources, genuinely good people in small tribes of 5 to 75 people and some decent men and women to hang out with. Who have good relationships, sexual and platonic."

I can pretty much guarantee that a shitload of those relationships aren't as happy as you think. Half the guys on deadbedrooms are in relationships that their neighbors would describe exactly like you did.

"All that didn’t evaporate in the last six years."

It didn't evaporate, it just became SIGNIFICANTLY harder to execute, and will continue to become even harder.

@Forge the Sky
"But there are also married men who need advice about how to ameliorate their circumstances. It’s not irrelevant."

And that is TOTALLY awesome. I'm glad there are old guys here to give advice to those guys. But those guys are also giving advice to the young guys when they drop their "commitment is possible" and "marriage can work" and "just tell her to delete her social media" and "just be dynamic and passionate and her orbiters will vanish" and "just screen for girls who don't have orbiters" and "take the fork in the road, walawala that generic girl who's running standard rolodex shit on you is actually probably The One you should consider settling with" comments, giving them notes from the old books that worked for them in a different world. Why do I get so much pushback when I bring up that young guys are dealing with a different reality? Why is that such an unacceptable notion when we have so much evidence to support it (including our hosts own posts about shifts in culture like pushing open hypergamy and leaning in etc)?

I'm not telling anyone to shut up or not post their advice. I'm pointing out that for young guys and future generations who read this, that advice is outdated and NOT field tested in 2016.

You'd think someone like Sentient would go "You know what, YaReally, you're right, I HAVEN'T field tested this stuff I'm advising with the types of girls and I HAVEN'T successfully kept these girls off social media for 40+ years after legally signing contracts and having kids with them, I guess this IS just theory, maybe I SHOULDN'T be so adamant about it", but nope, gotta pull out the "UR DUMB HERE'S A MADONNA BIDEO NOTHING HAS CHANGED WUT R U SAYING NAWALT?? LOLOL JUST BE ALPHA AND TELL THEM NO AND SCREEN THEM OUT EVEN THO IT'S ALL OF THEM" from a guy who hasn't even successfully done that shit himself.

Theory is great, as long as it's clear that it's THEORY.

"And I have particular respect for men who, though older, make a continuous effort to engage with new realities as they emerge."

That's why I heart Blax lol


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 8:25 am
Original Link

@Msam
No idea, I’ll tell Lumpy.

@Sentient
“you’ve not passed your own hypethetical [How many <25yo hotties have you fucked and converted into monoLTRs since 2014"

My hypothetical is "it's not possible to make <25yo hotties delete all their social media accounts and quit interacting with other men or have any orbiters in 2016", which we've all passed a bunch of times by not being able to do it. You're the one making unreasonable claims that gravity doesn't work if you just believe strongly enough even though you haven't demonstrated that you can actually think gravity away.

What you're saying isn't field-tested with these girls and proven valid, what I'm saying is thoroughly tested and proven valid.

"and you've not even tried to get a girl to delete her social media"

What makes you think that? What makes you think other guys haven't either?

"Yet you say it is impossible, delusional and retarded."

Still waiting on you to do it. You're the one who thinks it's possible, so give it a go and send us the field reports of your success, starbuck.

"Perhaps this is just a limiting belief you hold?"

Dunno, maybe you can fly, you should try jumping off a cliff to prove all those gravity believers wrong.

"Welcome the the Armchair Theorist Club at TRM. You and I are charter members… enrollment is rolling and welcome to all!"

Again, what I'm saying, that you can't get <25yo 7+/10s in 2016 to delete all their social media for you and your alpha badassness and have them commit to you for 40+ years monogamously, is backed up by all sorts of field experience, including guys in this very thread. Walawala alone has already described his attempts to get girls to drop their orbiters or social media etc (and to quote him: "I’m killing it with the 20’s. I’ve banged 30 since 2014.", I'd call that relevant field experience) and tons of other guys have run into the same experiences. I could post my original post on the TRP forums and get a fuckton of guys there agreeing like what I'm saying is just obvious common sense, 'cause those guys are actually trying to fuck <25yo girls and dealing with this stuff.

But maybe we're just not all as alpha badass as you…you got that stripper of yours to delete all her social media for you and then signed legal contracts and had kids with her and she stayed monogamously obsessed with you for 40+ years, right? No? You didn't field test it?

You're the one making claims that have zero basis in the field and actively go against other guys' experiences. So go out and prove it, let's see you demonstrate this. I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if you can consistently get these girls to delete their orbiters from their life and all their social media accounts. I HOPE you can do it, I'd LOVE to have a solution to it. So let's see it.

And you avoided answering all my questions. Pretty obvious why lol

"And why is she responding at all right? Shouldn’t she, according to Yatheory, just be ignoring you and getting all her validation and sex from orbiters and social media? Shouldn’t she be pursuing her unchained hypergamy?"

Is Andy's wife a <25yo 7+/10 raised in Tinder culture? Or are you just really bad with reading comprehension?

"And I’m working from the advantage of a mid-thirties girl."

OH LOOK. She's not. Shocker. And even then he admits it's a challenge.

Again, please, hit the field and share your successful attempts to just be DPA and how fast girls delete their social media accounts for you. Remember to sign legally binding contracts and have kids with them so you can't leave so your theory can be fully tested.

@Klem
"I think it’s really time for young guys to let go of the “old rules” : you won’t work in the same company all your life like your dad, you won’t live in the same town all your life like your dad, and you won’t keep the same woman all your life like your dad."

Nicely put, this is a good analogy that the old guys might have an easier time relating to. You can turn down the companies that won't guarantee you a job for life, but that means you will spend the rest of your life out of work.

@Bromeo
"Gonna have to agree with Yareally here, need more game strategy targeted towards LTRing in 2016. Find most pua material is centered around ons or 2-3 day closes in general. Im in a situation where im open to ons when going out and having a good time but at the same time on the look out for potential LTR material where it may take longer.

The reason I bring it up is because this is literally the only place that would give a shit about this topic (or so I assumed lol). PUAs don't really understand Hypergamy in depth and aren't generally aware of MRA topics like family court and divorce court shit and tend to believe that if you're just high-value enough it'll all work out fine (aka the Sentient approach, "just have hand bro just BE ALPHA 24/7 FOR 40 YEARS BRO NO PROBLEM IT'LL SOLVE ITSELF EVEN THO I HAVEN'T FIELD TESTED IT WITH THE GIRLS YOU'RE GONNA TRY TO SETTLE WITH BRO", the TRP guys give no fucks about settling and kids they figure if you just have a ripped enough 6-pack and find a girl who isn't a slut it'll work itself out, the RVF guys are sucking Roosh's dick over Neomasculinity and flying to EE and Thailand looking for thier unicorns that won't have Hypergamous hardwiring trying to find a loophole, the rest of the Manosphere doesn't know enough about pickup to make any real guideline/connection/pathway from "meet the girl" to "be together for 40 years with her still attracted and having raised a couple of kids successfully".

This is literally the ONLY place that balances on the edge of the two and might be able to form some kind of path for future boys to learn and follow when they're handed the TRM book collection.


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 8:44 am
Original Link

@Sentient

How about some bodybuilding dude:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150772183

Scroll down on this one for all the un-asked-for advice she’ll get from her friends and family when her social media accounts disappear:

http://www.girlsaskguys.com/social-relationships/q605101-do-you-think-making-your-girlfriend-delete-her

But if they’re engaged that’ll make a difference right, let’s see how the wedding forum crowd react, surely they’ll sense what an alpha badass he is:

http://boards.weddingbee.com/topic/fiance-wants-me-to-delete-my-instagram-account/

This isn’t even a RECENT one but here’s one of the sosuave guys’ attempt lol:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/index.php?threads/my-girlfriend-chose-facebook-over-me.182320/

And that’s with a basic google search, I could dig you up hundreds of these.

Your turn: how many 7+/10 <25yo hotties in even 2010+ have you gotten to delete all their social media (including Facebook etc) and commit monogamously to you for, even just 5 years let's say, even WITHOUT the legal contracts and kids tying you to the relationship? Any? Zero?

One of us has reports from the field. One of us is pulling shit out of their ass.


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 8:21 pm
Original Link

@Andy
“This is just theory, but I think that if you pick an <25 7+ and just knock her up immediately, and keep her knocked up/nursing till she's post wall you're probably going to be fine. Especially if you have girls on the side and she knows about it. She'll be occupied with the kids enough that it shouldn't be a problem."

See that's a potential solution worth discussing. Is it better for guys to vet fast and knock a chick up instead of taking 5+ years to vet her, giving her plenty of time to get bored and exercise her infinite options in 2016? And how would guys screen faster? What sort of things can they do toward that? Are there traits that are more important to screen for than others, if you have to do it in a short time, what traits REALLY matter (ie – does screening for girls who have no orbiters (which doesn't exist) really worth it, or would it be more efficient to learn to handle orbiters)? Shit worth talking about if we could get past Sentient's "BRO JUST BE ALPHA FOREVER LIKE ME WITH MY OLD WIFE WHO DOESN'T HAVE TINDER INSTAGRAM AND SNAPCHAT" shit.

@N1
"Ignore the trolls lol, the idea of getting a girl to give up fb/phone is totally ludicrous to me."

As soon as they're able to do it themselves, and keep a girl off it for 20+ years in a monogamous relationship, with a 7+/10 <25yo, I'll be happy to give what they're saying credit lol But they can't even do it THEMSELVES. Full keyboard jockey theorizing in action.

Hell, I'll make the challenge even EASIER: @Sentient just get ANY 7+/10 <25yo girl you flirt with this year (aka not your daughters lol, a girl that wants to FUCK you since that's who we're gaming) to delete ONE of her social media accounts that she regularly uses, and to keep that social media account deleted for a year. That's it. One tiny little year. She'll be in the New Relationship Energy stage so it should be EASY.

If you can't even demonstrate what you're saying works, then you're just jockeying from an armchair sorry, that's how field-testing works. πŸ™‚

@N1
"What sort of interactions do you try and achieve if other people are present? I’ve dropped most of the kino and go for laser-eyes, toned down a bit of the sexuality a bit as well. Engage the friends and make them like me, but keep interacting with them as pleasant and brief as possible."

This is all good. Lasers and sexual topics will build just as much or more sexual tension as kino'ing and shit. Sometimes moreso because there's that "itch to scratch" urge where there's an unresolved sexual tension in the air that touching her can sometimes resolve. I rarely kino.

"This unfortunately leads to a lot of half-assed numbers which have vague sexual undertones."

Have you looked at Julien and Mystery's stuff on Time Bridging (Mystery explains the general idea but Julien amps it up a TON, probably as a reaction to gaming modern ADD girls)? Or are you just getting the number to "hang out sometime"? (aka vague or no plan to hang out when you get the number, no qualifying her on it or getting her to agree to a specific event etc)

"Almost always get responses, yet organising a day 2 is really hard with social media et.c. I’ve entirely dropped the idea of arranging one-on-one meetings, but instead try and set up a group gathering."

Group gathering is probably easier to make happen, but more work for you to isolate. If you're in a city where everyone knows everyone else though, you might have to do a shitload of running the group and focus on DHV'ing so she chooses you and SHE wants isolation with you and helps make it happen…it's slower but you do what you gotta do. In environments like that the ASD runs way higher because rumors can do damage to her reputation.

"When pushing for the meetup, I try and spike the text conversation on the same day. I push for something 1-3 days after the initial encounter."

Throw hard Julien-style Time Bridging in there (he talks about it in the Closing section in PIMP, and in SHIFT there's an infield with the pornstar blonde at the club where you can see him demonstrate it, basically just constantly bridging the hangout throughout the interaction qualifying her on it, probably have to pirate them to see these), but you might be stuck having to work the whole group and follow Mystery Method even more strictly. MM was about NOT showing the girl interest but demonstrating enough value (A1) until the girl is showing SO MUCH interest/attraction (A2) that when you do number close etc SHE'S the one that wants it to happen VS you "preying" on her.

Like skip to 1:29:00 and watch till they leave the venue:

This girl keeps trying over and over to get his number (watch all the hair-playing iois too lol), even in front of her friends, literally interrupting Mystery and her friend talking to shove her phone in his face demanding his number, and interrupting calling him etc and he keeps fucking with her (even "accidentally" deleting her number at one point because he "can't figure this new phone out" lol) But like, notice the level of A2 he has with that girl compared to how your number closes probably look right now (and most guys, where it's the guy almost convincing the girl to give him her number).

Usually a good exercise to work on this is to just stop trying to get numbers entirely. Make a rule for yourself that SHE has to ask for YOUR number, otherwise you won't try to get her contact information. You can expand on it by making the rule harder like she has to ask for your number twice etc. But this forces you to work on getting them to chase you and when SHE'S the one demanding your number, and you allow her to have it and throw in a hard Time Bridge where you're telling her you don't want her number if she's not serious about going for coffee at X place tomorrow at 3pm etc, she's much more likely to meet up.

@Scray @Andy
"i can’t really wrap my head around why people are so into marrying a chick or monogamy or her being monogamous to them. "

"Seeing your kids every day and raising them in this fucked up society is the dilemma."

This. I don't even want kids myself right now, but that might change in the future and the reality is we DO need guys to keep reproducing and be father figures for their kids for society to not collapse. So realistically guys need a guide for how to achieve that long-term or single moms are going to be running society while men escape to VR porn because they have no idea how to navigate making LTRs work with 2016 girls (if it's even possible for more than a certain duration of time, like maybe the best plan now is screen as fast as possible and knock them up in the New Relationship Energy stage and then just accept that they'll probably bail in <10 years when she turns 30-ish and views it as her last chance to trade up to one of her other zillion options, and plan for that in terms of legal/family court/social skills to be fine after she leaves/etc preparation).

@Sentient
"Well what I can glean from your very long non answer is you have not tried to monoLTR a <25YO since 2014 and you did not try to get this girl you didn't monoLTR to delete her social media.

Am I correct here?"

I don't do monoLTRs, so yes, you are correct. But again, you're the one claiming something that goes against the experiences of everyone else who DOES try it, without having ever done it yourself.

"But you have come across posts that indicate it will be difficult to do so… and from this we are to infer now that it is impossible? OK"

Yes, because no one has successfully done it, including you. There is no evidence to support what you're saying, including your own experiences. You are the one making a ridiculous claim that goes against everyone else's experiences. How do you not understand this simple concept?

I don't have to fly a rocket to the moon to know that it's possible, because other guys have actually DONE it and we have tons of that documented and recorded to look at. You're walking in saying "bro, you can just fly a rocket to the moon by WISHING it to happen" and I'm saying "Have you DONE that? Because everyeone else who's TRIED to do that has failed." and you're saying "Well NO, but have YOU flown a rocket to the moon using your silly "science" stuff?" No, I haven't, but we have a shit-ton of evidence that supports what I'm saying and none to support what you're saying.

And the fact that you keep dodging my questions and challenges says that even YOU know you're full of shit lol

"I haven't gotten that from your many posts. Did you succeed and then you tried to have her delete her social media?"

So what you're saying is, and remember, you've never actually successfully DONE this yourself with these girls, is that a guy should stick his head in a legal noose and then TRUST your THEORY that putting his head in the noose (REMOVING his ability to walk away) will INCREASE her receptiveness to being told to delete her grandmother's writing on her Facebook wall and all her memories with her friends she misses from college on her Instagram and her way of keeping in touch with family/friends etc?

Fucking LOL. Dude, you're embarrassing yourself now. That goes against everything we know about how attraction works, that goes against the experience of every guy who tries it, and YOU can't even field test it.

Just stop man, take a break lol I don't think you even realize what you're saying at this point. I think you just like to argue for the sake of arguing.

"However do you deny that you can have hand in a relationship?"

In 2016 it's SIGNIFICANTLY harder to keep that hand over the course of a 40+ years relationship with a girl raised to have infinite options at her fingertip. You played the game on easy mode dude, guys now are dealing with hard mode. And it'll get hardER, not easier.

"Do you deny that women will fall in love with you?"

Oh god. Where am I? LOVE?? Are we in a blue pill forum now? Have you read ANYTHING Rollo's written about women?? lolol LOVE is the card you're pulling out here?? You MUST be trolling me now.

"Do you deny that women pursuing Alpha will do what it takes to secure it?"

Sure. But your mistake is in thinking that getting the girl attracted one day equates to her staying attracted for 40+ years through thick and thin, lulls and boredom, unhappiness and fights, illness and job/financial/etc difficulties, while she has hundreds (if not thousands if she's legitimately hot) of orbiters lined up promising her the world.

"Do you deny that one with hand can train a woman?"

Only when you have value to her, which in 2016, is a lot harder to pull off long-term because of all the options she has knocking on her virtual door 24/7 through the lulls and boredom and unhappiness and fights and the hits you take in life.

This is why I summarize your advice as "JUST BE ALPHA 24/7 FOREVER BRO!!!!!!" Because that's exactly what your recommendation is.

And again, I stress, that YOU haven't even DONE THIS SHIT with a 7+/10 <25yo lol PURE keyboard theory. Fucking hilarious. Hey NASA, why won't you listen to me about flying rocketships with MIND POWER?? Have you TRIED IT YOURSELF?? The more of your dick you chop off, the better it will work! I mean, I haven't done it or anything, but TRUST ME BRO. Ohhh, so you're not going to chop you dick off to prove that I'm right? CHECKMATE, LOOKS LIKE I WIN.

lol

@Klem
"I can intellectually get that some guys don’t want an endless parade of ONS, or even FBs, but nowadays we KNOW how to set up a p/oLTR which have all the benefits of a monoLTR without the drawbacks."

I don't think we do in-depth yet. Because it's not fully field-tested (zomg see what I'm doing here Sentient? It's called admitting what's theory and what's field-tested). We have more men running p/oLTRs, and we know that we can bypass the legal marriage contract part, which avoids being "locked in" and allows the man to walk away still…BUT, once you have a KID, assuming you give a shit about the kid and want to be an involved father, that's the one point we can't work around where she's going to know "ok, NOW he can't leave me no matter what" and whatever shit-tests that triggers.

That's why I always talk about it, to get more guys trying it and figuring out how to make it work so that we have an actual roadmap for men who do want to have kids and have a consistent mother/father arrangement raising that kid which is ideal for the kid's benefit and society overall.

@Blaximus
"To my mind, it is just as strange to hear a guy profess that they have zero interest in a monogamous relationship."

My point is that it doesn't matter what the guy wants. He's not IN a monogamous relationship if she has social media and/or works in male spaces. He's in a pLTR in her favor. So he might as well keep it a pLTR on his end unless he WANTS to roll the cuckold dice.

Women aren't offering "hey, if you date me monogamously I'll delete all my social media and stop talking to any other men and quit my job working around these high-value guys". If that was a deal, sure a guy could take it, but in 2016 that's not the deal they're offering. Social media is a part of their life and if their social circles and career involve being around other men, that shit is coming part and parcel with them. They're not going to stop talking to their male BFF for you and delete their Facebook etc in 2016 as a "reward" for your monogamous commitment.

This is very simple: the contract men are being offered is lopsided in the woman's favor against them, so we are advising men to not sign that contract and to only offer the exact same deal back to the women so that it's fair for them, instead of voluntarily self-sacrificing and thinking they're in a monoLTR giving up their options while their girl is still surrounded by options.

If in business, your team you were training was offered contracts that were fair, you'd say "sure, take those contracts". But if over time those contracts became lopsided in favor of the client to the point where that client has unreasonable power to fuck your team over, but all that lopsided shit was written in tiny print at the bottom of the back of the last page and your team THOUGHT they were still entering the original contracts, you would be telling your team "guys, uhh, you really need to read the fine print on this, you're not getting the fair deal you think you're getting".

It's the exact same thing here.

Or if you had two people betting on something, and one of them said "let's both push all our chips in" and your friend, in good faith believes them, and goes "ok I agree!" but you see that the other person is actually hiding a bunch of chips in their lap, wouldn't you tap your friend on the shoulder and go "psst, you're putting all your chips in but they're not ACTUALLY putting all their chips in"? Again it's the exact same situation.

"But here’s an example of how I was socially conditioned."

And who do you think is going to teach future boys that knowledge that I agree 100% with, if their fathers are removed from their lives because they entered a lopsided agreement they didn't realize they were entering (where their girl still has tons of options and they've voluntarily given up theirs because they thought she was giving up hers) that, when they have a few off days 10 years down the road when she turns early 30s, and she has orbiters on her social media offering her the world, results in those men not being able to BE a part of their now almost 10 year old son's life anymore? The next random boyfriend from the cock carousel their aging single mom brings home isn't going to teach them that.

@Klem
"I’m legit curious again, what would be the downside of it? (except kids probably, even though you can probably raise them while getting pussy on the side occasionally, but I didnt field test so I dont know lol)"

Careful man, we don't accept that "field testing" around here, Sentient's bound to jump in to tell you how he "imagines" things will work now lol

And yes, we need to field test having kids in pLTR arrangements (though there are already a lot of people who've done it, from Tyler to Will Smith). I've already broken down why pLTRs promote long-term attraction (by creating passive dread and forcing the guy to stay charismatic etc etc) and how monogamy makes it more difficult to keep attraction (removing your ability to walk away etc) in-depth here:

http://yareallyarchive.com/2015/8/#comment-rationalmale-114069

But kids is where you're locked-in and have to deal with situations like how she'll react if you fuck other girls while she's pregnant, whether you're going to be able to maintain other girls when you're a new dad dealing with baby shit, how to keep things discreet so your kid isn't negatively affected, how to explain things to your kids and how they'll handle it if it becomes schoolyard playground talk, how it'll affect a daughter VS a son, etc etc

@Rollo
"From a Blue Pill perspective, serial monogamy / marriage ostensibly represents some form of rejection insurance to a Beta who’s been taught that he must (morally and practically) invest himself heavily in a mate"

So basically what Sentient is saying. Promise her commitment and she'll delete her social media and orbiters etc from her life for you lol Insert quip from Sentient about how I'm moving goalposts even though this is basically what he's saying, sprinkled with a dose of "JUST STAY ALPHA 24/7 BRO".

@Blaximus @Scray
"there is LITERALLY NO ADVANTAGE to being monogamous. so if there’s no advantage and people are still clinging to it or thinking it’s necessary or good…..I’m like ‘welp……..seems supplicative’"

"Kids are best raised in a stable, 2 parent household. That shit is absolutely field tested..lol. Single moms are fucking kids heads up and, in my unique experience in life, are creating dangerous, heavily armed killers with a woman’s emotional reactivity."

Agreed on the stable household thing being ideal. But there's no reason that has to be a monogamous arrangement (which ISN'T actually monogamous, because she has social media and a job working around other men and men in her social circles in 2016), instead of a pLTR heavily set in the man's favor. Change nothing else about that ideal parenting situation you described except that the man has side poon (to balance out the fact that she has orbiters and social media), and you have what's probably the best arrangement possible for men in 2016 according to everything we know about attraction and have field tested to this point.

Like what are the DOWNsides to a pLTR? You, Blaximus, just don't WANT other pussy 'cause you've been banging your whole life, and that's cool, but as I describe in my "monogamy is broken" post I linked above, pLTR has significantly more benefits over monogamy in terms of keeping long-term attraction easier (like it inherently builds dread, forces the guy to stay charismatic, triggers preselection regularly, etc etc).

Literally the only points in favor of monogamy are 1) it's easier to agree to it and just go along with what the wifey and society want you to do, than it is to hold your frame through some uncomfortable shit-testing, and 2) that's just the way things have always been.

Neither of those are good reasons to choose monogamy lol espeically in 2016 when monogamy is a pLTR in her favor because she has social media and lots of men in her social circles etc if she's a hot outgoing girl (even if she ISN'T outgoing, really, if she has social media she can use as a buffer for her shyness).

"Of course, wifey could go batshit crazy next week and throw all of my shit out on the front lawn, but that’s not the person I chose and guided for the past 18 years. She gets what I have demonstrated. Sentient calls it ” Hand “. I must concur with him on this 100%."

18 years ago your wife didn't grow up with an Instagram, Tinder, Facebook, Twitter, etc accounts like the girls scray and the rest of us are selecting from is all.

@hank holiday
"okay, where are some good resources for cold reads, role plays, spiking BT?"

I'd just send you to the Tyler Digest lol But start looking at the structure of those and understand WHY they work, like what do they all have in common? Why does one cold read have a significant impact on attraction while another one doesn't? Why do girls jump on one roleplay but not another? Why do they spike their temp through the roof when you say "you're the good girl of the group so you must be the naughty one" but their temp doesn't spike when you say "oh you're a nice girl, and your friend seems cool too"? Why does telling a story with the punchline here get an impact when the punchline elsewhere doesn't, etc etc

It's like comedy, there are reasons why good jokes hit and bad jokes don't…but the good comedians are the ones who understand the structure of what does/doesn't work and can create their own jokes or improvise on the fly instead of looking for "what's a funny joke I can tell". Just don't want you to get caught in the "what's the secret line to say" trap (that every guy DOES inevitably gets trapped in for a while when they start doing pickup lol)

Look for BradP's "The Shocker" eBook/PDF (should be downloadable somewhere), where he breaks down his Horse Girl opener and why it works and then walks you through the steps of designing your own that's relevant to your own life/personality but follows the same structure…not necessarily that the shocker is the best opener, but like, it'll show you the kind of structural thing I'm talking about and might help you break down these other routines and tighten up your own.

This is a good example of breaking things down into their structure to design your own too:

http://www.venusianarts.com/how-to-write-dhv-stories/

But BradP's Shocker focuses on making a huge impact at the start like it sounds like you're looking for, VS just telling a cool story. And the Tyler Digest should break down "why this chick crack stuff works" in a few places.

@scray
"the best opener i ever used (to this day lol) was “hey guys, sorry I’m late” after walking into the middle of whatever their shit was"

lol I use this one a bunch too. I'll pretend to be one of their exes that they've never talked about too. If the girl goes along with the roleplay so it's her and I VS her friends, it's pretty much a done deal off the opener from there.

@walawala
"But I HAVE tried to get girls to drop orbiters….usually by saying things like “I dunno ask orbiter” or “Go to your orbiter”. Or “You look ridiculous”. And other means. Never successful. The more I react to an orbiter…the more the girl digs in and defends him."

Be prepared to have this post ignored because it doesn't fit Sentient's imaginary theory on how things should work. Like I say there is AMPLE field experience written about by guys from all categories from red pill PUAs to blue pill chodes, trying to remove orbiters and social media from modern girls' lives while offering monogamous commitment to them, and with a 7+/10 <25yo in 2016 you're just not going to do it. The infield experience of everyone backs that up against Sentient's non-experience.

"However, when I’ve eventually walked away—hard nexted—the orbiter suddenly disappears."

Yup, the ONE thing you can do that gives her dread and makes her remove the orbiters, is the thing Sentinet wants you to voluntarily give up by committing to her. lol But I mean, why would we listen to what actually happens infield over Sentient's theories?

"Usually in my case, the orbiter appeared after I refused to commit."

And if you had committed, well, we have a ton of guys in /r/relationships and /r/deadbedrooms /r/mensrights/ who can tell you how much a legal commitment has protected them from their girl gathering orbiters lol But again why would we listen to field evidence, gross, get it away!!

"One is still on OKC. But she’s quite dedicated."

You could promise her commitment and sign a legal contract and try to get her to delete all her social media, and she might even DO it during the NRE stage, but NRE stage only lasts a couple years and then real life relationship boredom and ups and downs settle in, which is when her social media accounts reactivate "just to keep in touch with friends".

"Girls ALWAYS give out their number. But the key is whether they meet up."

lol this. A number is no big deal to girls anymore, there's so many tools to block you if it turns out giving you their number was a bad idea, they have total safety now for giving out their number. But getting them to meet up is why I mention all the time bridge stuff to N1 up above.

"Commitment? I’m not even sure what that means with today’s girls."

This. I'd love to see half these guys promoting monogamous commitment's reaction to the <25yo girls who sneer and look like they're going to barf at the NOTION of being in a relationship when they're young, hot, and have so much to do with their lives before tying themselves down (they're gonna have it all, don'tcha know).

Like a number of us have reported from the field: we don't even have to disqualify ourselves from a relationship anymore, young hot girls WANT casual hookups now, because that's the culture they're raised in. It's made my job a whole lot easier lol, but it's not great for society and when they get closer to 30 and they'll start trying to lock guys into LTRs (while still banging guys like us on the side as they make that guy wait lol)

But this is stuff you don't see unless you're out there fucking these girls.

@Mineter
"Why try to get her to delete all of her social media stuff? That’s a veritable gold mine of electronic intelligence."

lol half the stuff I know about this shit is because I go on Tinder WITH girls and look at their messages when they're txting while we're in bed and they show me their Facebook conversations with other guys and their friends etc It's all a fascinating learning experience and an uncensored glimpse into their world. Girls show me their convos with other guys offering them shit and we discuss why they do/don't like the guy, where guys fucked up, what guys do for them and why they keep them around and how they feel about it etc etc

They're not showing this stuff to their dad or uncle or guys they're trying to seriously lock down and convince they're unicorns lol

@Blaximus
"As far as spending time, that is something that’s pretty individualistic. It’s fair to say that in a committed relationship, a pair would spend a ” considerable ” amount of time together. Not necessarily ” banging “, but getting to know and understand each other.

Lots of guys love to skip that part and get shived because of it. Never even see it coming. ” How could I know she was nuttier than squirrel shit?”."

To quote a buddy's 19yo 6/10 (on a good day if you ignore the handful of extra pounds on her) roommate who had a decently good looking normal dude that she actually thought was cute (they made eyes at a bar and then found eachother on Tinder afterward instead of him approaching her in person, because welcome to 2016), coming to take her on a date and pay for their drinks etc: "Oh god, why do we have to go on a DATE?? Can't we just hangout and watch a movie and maybe hook up? I don't know what to talk about on a DATE, I have to sit there and talk about myself?? Ugh, god, maybe I should tell him I can't hang out tonight…"

The idea of sitting at a table talking about herself and having to ask questions about him etc was SO NIGHTMARISH to her that she almost flaked on the guy completely. And her 19yo GFs agreed with her that they hate that shit. (she did go out with him, we met him and he was a nice cool dude, but she didn't fuck him (to be fair we were cockblocking him by making fun of her telling her she's in loooove with him and they're going to get married (lol I just realized we now use the suggestion of commitment as a way to SABOTAGE shit now lol)) and far as I know he never got a second date lol)

But like, it would be great if you could tell all these <25yo girls raised on social media and surface level conversation and letting Netflix fill their time with a guy instead of actual conversation etc, what commitment is and sell them on it lol

(also the girls would all come over to their place "to hangout" and then the 3 of them would all pull out their phones and individually look at their own Facebook/social media feeds and occasionally play a video for eachother or quote something but otherwise ignore eachother to just play on their phones…that's "hanging out" for them lol They did other shit together, like legitimate hanging out fun stuff, but it was surprising to see how much time they could all sit there in the same room together not actually interacting, all their faces glowing from the light of their phones…all 3 of them would choose their social media/phones over a guy in a heartbeat, those things are their access to a BETTER guy who will LET them keep their social media and ALSO be a rich doctor, why would they ever get rid of them for some dude who isn't a rockstar?)

"As I have stated before, commitment is not a trap or some kind of inescapable straight jacket. If while committed a guy says ” I can’t do this stuff. I’m dying to go get some strange “, he is free and clear to jet."

Not if he's legally tied to her, he isn't. That's our point lol There's NO benefit to legally tying yourself to her. You can CHOOSE to stay with her for a long time…your relationship wouldn't be any different if you didn't have a legal paper saying you were legally married.

"Buuutttt…. I do know a few 20 somethings that have gotten married over the past few years."

Have any of them deleted all their social media accounts and removed all their orbiters from their lives?

"But, I think that the correct tactics will still work on a lot of girls"

You can think whatever you want, like, that's totally fine, as long as it's clear that it's THEORY. VS what Sentient is doing where he's trying to dance around answering actual questions and admitting that what he's saying is theory.

"I have field tested this to a very limited extent. But there is a shitload of interference to be dealt with."

Like I say, even if you CAN get a girl to delete all her social media and stop talking to male friends that are part of her social circle and friends with her other friends etc, which you might be able to during the NRE stage (like the year after being freshly married), her friends and family are going to be seeing nothing but red flags and bring all sorts of interference into your relationship. But Sentient conveniently avoids addressing any of that, because he can't, because he's waxing theory not reality.

@MeadowLarkLemon
"I’ve dated, had relationships long-term and short, and hookups and ONS like anybody else. I’ve met plenty of women, had “serious” relationships with some of them, but I never met a modern American woman that I could bullshit myself into thinking was good wife material."

This is what I'm saying. If you screen out every hot girl who has social media and orbiters, in 2016, you will NOT be having kids. None of them will pass that screen. This shit is a part of their lives now.

"I am far from perfect, but my general rule of thumb has been “don’t marry anybody who has more problems than you do” and this seemingly basic guideline eliminates most of the women I run across. Simple things like not being covered in tatts are hard enough to find, much less looking for ones that don’t have five figures of student loan debt, can maintain a stable career, whose family aren’t nuts, are of generally good moral character, etc"

Yup. Welcome to the selection in 2016. Girls raised in single mom households, with no male guidance/influence, in a culture that promotes that being fucked up is empowering and cool…it's either figure out how best to optimally make the shit-sandwich taste good, or stop reproducing entirely.

I say we figure out how to adapt to the materials we're given instead of holding out for that unicorn that will continue to exist less and less, if we're going to help millions of guys navigate the future.

"Add in wanting to marry somebody on the same general wavelength with whom you share a few basic commonalities, not to mention who you could actually see being a good mother to future sprogs, and the odds look grim."

The reason I keep talking about field experience is because a guy like Blaximus will only ever see GLIMPSES of Breakup–>MGTOW/Monk Mode for awhile—>PUA/Plates for awhile—>STR or LTR if I find a girl I like more than the rest—>Breakup—>cycle starts anew. I suspect this is how it will go for most guys until YaReally cracks the code and writes us a new set of books.”

This is why I bring this up. Maybe I’m just thinking longer-term than most people, but I’m looking at what’s the the 21yo version of MeadowLarkLemon, out there in the dating field in 2016, going to do with the selection around him and the way social culture has changed and will continue to change? How is THAT guy going to settle down and have kids so he doesn’t end up like 45yo MeadowLarkLemon?

It seems like everyone is content to just go “oh just do it like we did it in our day, whatever, nothing’s changed” and forget about future generations who will be raised in single mom households with no one to teach them the stuff Blaximus was taught and a society that’s actively trying to keep them in the dark and demonize their masculinity as “toxic” etc

But that’s not going to help 21yo MeadowLarkLemon in 2016, going on dates with girls who wish they didn’t have to have a whole 2 hour conversation with another human being. And I don’t think “well just screen them ALL out then!!” is a good or realistic solution lol

@Sentient @MeadowLarkLemon
“Okay man, tell you what, you marry them and report back.

I’ve dated my share of “aesthetically acceptable smart, young girls” (I mean, I wouldn’t have bothered if they hadn’t at least been “acceptable,” right?) but as far as any of them being 50+ year marriage material, that was a bet I wasn’t willing to take.”

Yup. This is my point. Sentient is focused on “bro you can just alpha up and get them to follow your rules and delete their media and orbiters during the New Relationship Energy stage which is as far as I’ve ever gotten with 7+/10 <25yos past even 2010" But 1) he hasn't done it and all the guys trying it haven't been able to do it as we can tell from tooooons of field reports from guys from tons of different walks of life, and 2) that's short-sighted because after the NRE wears off THAT'S where you not being able to leave is the difference between her keeping the body Blaximus just posted, or letting herself get fat because her dozen orbiters on Facebook tell her she looks beautiful and you're abusive for not telling her she's beautiful and they'll treat her way better than you because she deserves it.


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 8:30 pm
Original Link

@Blaximus
Funny you should post her lol That’s Yanet Garcia:

This guy is a popular jacked gamer nerd with 1.6 million subscribers (aka dude makes bank) who saw her on TV (a workspace that involves her being seen and interacting with other men), hit on her via social media (because hot girls have social media), then flew across the world to meet her.

Her social media gave her access to a rich jacked minor-celebrity guy who could fly across the world to mack her and they’re on social media constantly documenting their lives and she is basically a celebrity now. In fact, YOU posted her pic because she’s in the public eye. She has access to BLAXIMUS’s dick if she wants it…if you were single you could shoot her a message on her social media and do what this guy did.

So, as nice as her body is, you just posted a girl that would be disqualified from a long-term relationship. Because girls that hot all have social media and thousands of orbiters in 2016. That’s my point lol That girl will NOT delete her social media for a guy, because that social media is what’s made her a celebrity and gotten her access to rich good-looking popular dudes and elevated her far beyond just being a news anchor.

So will you and Sentient tell this guy he should dump her? Because she has social media and orbiters, so she’s screened out? She has a YouTube channel with 80,000+ men drooling over her and leaving comments hitting on her, she has an instagram account with 2,600,000 followers. That’s 2.6 MILLION MEN (and women lol) orbiting her, dying for a chance to take her from this guy and all her pics are pics of her purposely showing off her ass etc to get more attention and more follower and more validation.

Does Sentient think she’s going to delete all of that for him? lolol Not a fucking CHANCE.

So what’s a better long-term solution for men? Telling this guy dating this chick to not reproduce with her or try to have an LTR with her because she doesn’t pass the “no social media, no orbiters” screening? Is that the best plan for men in this social media generation and future generations where it gets even worse?

Or would it be better to tell this guy “look man, your girl is smokin hot, she’s going to have literal millions of orbiters around the world trying to take her from you, and you’re NOT going to get her to delete her social media accounts, so here’s a gameplan for how to optimally HANDLE this situation and these orbiters and her having social media so that you CAN keep her around long-term and pop out beautiful babies with her” so that at least on her social media accounts she’s posting pics of them together to help ward off the orbiters (until she gets bored/unhaaaappy, ask any guy who’s watched his girl go from posting pics of them to suddenly not posting pics of him anymore and then eventually changing her profile pic to a pic of her partying with her friends as she prepares to drop the “I’m dumping you” nuke lol).

And does this look like a monogamous relationship to you guys? If this guy deletes all his social media accounts and cuddles up to her for Netflix night every night, her and her alone, while she has 2.6 MILLION other guys chasing her, do you consider that a fair monogamous arrangement for the guy?

And based on all the research and field evidence we have for how dread and preselection etc work, how would that girl’s long-term level of attraction look if that guy had 2-5 more girls that look just like her on the side to bang if she loses that body or starts entertaining her orbiters’ offers? hmmm………….

…sorry, I was distracted by her ass, what were the benefits of monogamy again?

And for Sentient how will this guy get this girl to delete her social media again? Give us a step by step from your vast experience.

Shit’s changed out there since your day grampas, gotta adapt to the reality out there that these guys are dealing with. Any 7+/10 <25yo out there comes with similar shit this weather girl comes with, ESPECIALLY the 8+s. They aren't deleting fuck all long-term for you past lol especially past the NRE stage.


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 8:41 pm
Original Link

Oh shit this all gives me a great idea for a routine lol…disqualifying a girl based on her LACK of orbiters.

“Do you have Instagram? How many followers do you have? 2,000? Hmmm…I dunno…I mean, I hooked up with a girl with 20,000 once. I don’t know if I can get with some “2,000” girl…that means 18,000 men think you’re uglier than her. Mathematically, she was 10x hotter than you. I’d be slumming it if we had sex…I bet that girl over there has at LEAST twice as many followers. I mean, what’s WRONG with you, you LOOK hot but you must have an ugly personality or something to only have 2,000 followers…I know a FAT CHICK with 1,000 followers. That’s almost as many as you have. You’re only 1,000 followers hotter than a FAT CHICK, gross, act like you don’t know me so people don’t think I’m with you, that 5,000 girl over there just looked at us, pretend you’re my sister.”

That would be hilarious to do to a hot girl. I gotta field test this shit lolol


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 9:32 pm
Original Link

@walawala
Can’t remember the details of your situ, been too busy to follow everyone’s reports in depth lol

But of those options “you have the same taste in music as you do clothes” (assuming you’ve playfully made fun of her taste in clothes before) is probably the best option. Because it doesn’t tell her whether you’re mad or not. Silence tells her you’re probably mad/butthurt, a fuck off tells her you’re definitely mad, a “sure babe no problem” tells her you’re not mad…a tease doesn’t answer whether you’re mad AND doesn’t tell her whether you’re going to play her song or not lol

That forces her to have to ping you AGAIN to try to figure out where you’re at.

But 1) what’s your goal with her exactly? What do you actually want the end result of this all to look like? and 2) why u so mad brah? Is the orbiter an actual sexual threat or is your ego just butthurt that she’d hang out with a guy who isn’t as high-value as you (possibly as a shit-test for you, like I say I can’t remember the details of your situ off-hand lol)

But I would just send the one text and then go back to silence for a while. Don’t have a conversation. Act like it’s something you just sent before heading to sleep or send it tomorrow as if you had company tonight or something. There’s no rush to reply unless you want to bang her tonight and think you can escalate it into that.

Remember change her mood not her mind. Don’t get into a logical discussion about her orbiters.


YaReally
on August 24th, 2016 at 11:11 pm
Original Link

@key
“the knock her up and take a flying leap appears to be a pretty solid restatement of old school in practice that may be as good as any plan for the new school”

Like I say, I’m open to anything as long as it holds up infield and, absent being able to fully field test it, if it follows everything we know about how attraction etc work. VS “commit harder bro, and make her delete these things that none of them have ever deleted and make her get rid of all her access to other men that help her biology achieve its goals that Rollo has written dozens of articles on in a culture that’s shifted the way Rollo’s written dozens of articles on”, which goes against a ton of shit and isn’t tested and, when tested, falls flat.

But let’s logic out a rough plan. If we accept reality instead of denying it and the reality is that we’re looking at a situation where girls WON’T get rid of their social media and orbiters, and long-term commitment always starts in the New Relationship Energy stage where she’ll do almost anything for you but then drifts off into boredom and routine monotony and her getting antsy and you having weak moments because of life interfering here and there and her gathering orbiters as her Facebook adds up in friends and the guys from work keep flirting with her etc, where outside of the NRE that boredom shit and interference etc could actually be a problem…

And we want this guy to have an LTR with this hot 2016 girl and raise a kid under a stable mother/father household dynamic…

If THOSE are the circumstances, then maybe instead of drawing the relationship out for like 5-10 years before finally having a kid, which was alright when she didn’t have as many options all promising her commitment 24/7 from all angles just because she’s a hot girl and they’re trying to get their dick wet, and then getting married when she’s already one foot out the door and the NRE is gone and you’re no longer as exciting and new and shiny to her and she’s only turning 30 and her BFF just broke up (because eat pray love grrrl) and is convincing her she can do better and they should go out and be besties at the bar just like old times omg lololz plz be my wingman girlfriend you don’t have to fuck his friend you can just sleep on the couch please this guy could be The One I want a marriage like you have don’t you want me to be happy?? and THAT’S when the guy gets gets legally tied to her and pops out a kid…

Well, then MAYBE a better option is to figure out how to train guys to VERY efficiently screen for VERY specific traits that will make the most significant difference, and knock the chick up after about a year (since 99% of the time they’re the ones who don’t want to use a condom anyway, just go along with it) while the NRE stage is still in full swing and you can convince her to quit her job to take care of the kids at home (removing the face to face access to other monkey branches so you mainly only have to deal with the virtual orbiters) and basically keep her so busy looking after the kid and the chaos of that, that she’s too worn out to want to go party it up and flirt on social media.

Personally I think (and this is just theory) that part of why girls seem crazier now is that they don’t have a baby early on, so they have ALL THIS FREE TIME to start their own drama. If they had a baby, that baby would PROVIDE the drama they crave, the up and down rollercoaster of emotions we know they need…but because they don’t have them, the girls get bored and more of the self-destructive behavior comes out, that’s why they’re a mess childless at 30+.

And if that were a plan, then it might also include something like “understand that the more social media and orbiters your girl had when you met her, even if she toned that down during the NRE stage and she’s too busy when the kid is a baby for it, she’ll still be turning 30+ around when the kid is 10 if you were macking hot young chicks and she’s still going to have TONS of access to orbiters and the kid will be less of a hassle so either:

1) get her preggers again around the 5-8 year mark so she’s kept busy again and passes through the wall to where she’ll be less likely to stray

or 2) be prepared for her to go Eat Pray Love to look for better options (now that you’re “boring” compared to the NRE stage and she has all these 6-pack rich dudes macking her on her social media and she has all the free time in the world since you made her quit her job etc) when your kid is around 10, and plan for a separation/family court situation (document shit and always make sure you come across like a primary parent so you have an easier time getting at LEAST evenly shared custody if not full custody), and plan to be hitting the singles scene again as a single dad around age 45-50 (since you waited till at LEAST 30+ to knock up this 20yo hottie, to gather enough experience with women to hold your frame through all this, right?).

or 3) get her a job in an all-female industry or working from home or something, where she’s kept busy but isn’t interacting with a bunch of potentially high-value (to her hindbrain) monkey branches

And then maybe teach guys how to let go of the resentment and let that girl come back when she DOES go EPL (because at least now they’re not being blindsided by it, they EXPECT it to potentially happen) and finds out she can’t do better and if she was a decent mother let her back into your life on your terms now that she’s learned her lesson. But like, EXPECT her to venue out there to see if she can find better, around when she’s 30, you’re 40+ and your kid is 10-ish. Who knows maybe you don’t even hold resentment for it and live happily ever after with her from then on.

And none of this would require a legal marriage contract. With a pLTR you would increase your odds of staying maximally attractive plus you’d keep your social/flirting skills up for if/when she bails to EPL so that you aren’t having to go through the type of recovery scribblerg had to go through.

I have a buddy who wants kids and this is his general plan lol…when he finds a decently hot young girl who seems relatively cool (but she won’t be perfect because none of them are), knock her up during the NRE stage and try to make the relationship work (ideally as a pLTR for him but he’s cool with either way because he’s a Pleasure of Sex guy more than Thrill of the Hunt), but accept the very likely possibility that she’s going to leave forever or stray for a bit around 10 years in when she’s bored with all her free time and society throws enough orbiters at her and he has a few bad days from life throwing shit at him.

This guy banging that hot weather girl? In that montage video of their 1 year she is in super New Relationship Energy mode all over him. If he wants kids etc, is it a better strategy for him to drag their relationship out for 5+ years till she’s bored and then propose to her to re-stoke the excitement for a bit while she plans the wedding, then wait another 3 years before they’re “ready” to have a kid? When she has 2,600,000 guys trying to fuck her and will have 10x that in 10 years?

OR, if he wants kids and a long-term mother/father dynamic for those kids, would it be better for him to knock her up NOW, in her prime, while she’s fully in the NRE stage doting on him, so that she’s kept too busy to even read what those 2.6M guys are sending her because she has a baby to take care of and then another baby a couple years later and has PTA meetings and family trips and shit to plan, until she passes the wall (and then accept that she MAY bail for a year or two to go on a few dates with some AAA celeb if she gets bored past then, but will probably come back when she realizes no one else wants to commit to her, and in the meantime he’s been slaying hot young poon).

I dunno, there’s field testing to be done on all this. But hey, let’s revise this and see what we can polish it into and think about how to help guys learn to screen more efficiently and realistically for 2016 culture, starting with getting rid of the notion that she’s going to stay with you for 40+ years without straying once when she’s in her prime with social media and an eat pray love culture influencing her.

“love that YaR has taken a serious look at this”

lol like I say, we’re all gonna be dead soon. Future generations will need this information. No one else is going to solve this shit. Feminists and blue pill guys and Disney aren’t going to start promoting plans to help guys out, they’re going to keep pushing guys into the noose. The day we all stop posting and die is the day this shit dies with us, unless we can get a dialog going and the discussion can outlive us just like PUA will outlive Mystery.

“YaR you are stuck on what happens next in a m/ltr with kids after the flying leap bc you have never done it. I honestly cant wait for that fr. at its most successful a m/ltr (esp w kids) is like a little cult and you are the leader”

lol this is what I suspect it’ll look like, based on all the evidence I’ve looked at (other people who’ve done this, lots of celebrities have this arrangement like Will Smith or Gene Simmons (till he fucked up by announcing his arrangement to the world and getting caught on tape putting the social pressure of the entire world on his wife who was FINE with the arrangement for their whole life until she had everyone asking her why she doesn’t respect herself and telling her she’s abused) where it’s a vibe of like “look I know you’re a high-value attractive man surrounded by starlets and fangirls, I’m not dumb, I know you’re gonna fuck some of them, just come home to me and the kids and don’t bail on us and it’s fine, no guy could resist that kind of pressure”, whether it’s openly discussed or just assumed (a chick knows when she settles with Gene Simmons that he’s going to fuck some fangirls when he goes on tour))

Like, there are a lot of examples of these arrangements and they do come off like a little mini patriarchal type cult which, I don’t know, that sounds like a pretty good deal to me lol If a guy tried it, sure there would be shit-tests and shit to deal with and you’d need experience but why not run some pLTRs through your 20s and 30s and build your strong frame and understand the shit-tests that come with pLTRs and then knock a hot 20yo up in a pLTR arrangement and see how long you can make it last. Then write a Field Report so we can compare notes from hundreds and eventually thousands of other guys trying the same thing and we can start to iron out all the kinks.


YaReally
on August 25th, 2016 at 1:36 am
Original Link

@key
“I actually think you’ve kind of got the plan (and it just might be closer to what the old schoolers have done than you know)”

Ya, the whole knock em up at 16 deal is a super oldschool thing…but the main key difference with 2016 girls is that guys back in the old days had to deal with less orbiters (I’m sure their wives had a few orbiters, but none of them had 2,600,000 orbiters) and “you go grrl” no fault divorce empowerment culture and massive pushes to keep girls chasing education/career through their 20s instead of settling down and a society that would shame women for leaving their man instead of throwing them divorce parties

Whereas with 2016 girls guys may have to accept that those girls need to go find out that they can’t do better, because they can have an unhappy day and rack up literal hundreds of offers from guys (offering sex AND commitment) in a couple hours:

Now at first GLANCE, a lot of those guys probably have good profile pics and interesting profiles that make them SEEM high-value…WE know they’re losers, but her hindbrain thinks “ya buuuuut what if one of them ISN’T?” because she can’t tell whether they are or not until she interacts with them and tests them, just like in real life, and that’s where her attraction increases or shuts off depending on how he reacts (is he just “a waste of good genetics” or is he “fun to talk to”).

But a girl bored in a relationship who makes an anonymous social media account on any of these sites or sees her girlfriend’s inbox count sees “I can rack up 200 potential winning lottery tickets in an HOUR if I want, and any one of them could be better than my man, look at this guy’s profile pic he has a 6-pack and he’s on a boat! MY man doesn’t have a boat! I bet this guy is world traveled with that boat he could tell me so many interesting stories and take me on adventures like Aladdin and Jasmine OMG WE COULD BE LIKE JACK AND ROSE ON HIS BOAT OMG”

Once she bails on her man or he walks out on her (because he didn’t legally tie himself to her) and she goes through the experience of messaging these guys and goes through what this guy is going through in these vids and she goes on a handful of dates with these guys, she’ll start piecing together that most of them are lame as shit and even the couple that were okay weren’t as good as her actual man was and back she comes, hoping for another chance.

In the NRE stage, she might not care about those guys as much, but I’m talking 10-40+ years of marriage. Any guy who says his marriage has never had boring periods or fights or moments where they’ve been weak in front of their wife, is full of shit lol

So I think it might be better to inform guys that look, just like if you were a rockstar AAA celeb you would have pussy pounding on your door and might stray from your girl, she has the same level x10000 of guys pounding on her door all throughout your marriage…here’s how to handle those orbiters so you can stay higher-value than them to her, but there’s a chance that she may stray on you when the relationship gets boring so protect yourself by not getting legally married and planning for a family court battle over your kid and protect yourself and keep your social flirting skills up with women (a pLTR would help with this), and ask yourself if you can take a girl back after she strays or not and if you can’t, plan to possibly end up being a single dad macking girls in your 40s.

I don’t care what guys choose to do, as long as they’re informed about the realities instead of kept in the dark as they slip their head into a noose.

“alternatively, its also like a little cult bc you have to be crazy to start, it runs contrary to all nature and logic, and everyone may wind up dead”

lol for real though I think a pLTR with kids runs as close to nature (for both parties involved) as possible. The girl gets a man that she’s constantly reminded is attractive and desired by other women so she has a prize, the man keeps his charisma up because he’s interacting with other women, which all follows standard MMSL deadbedroom recovery and laws of attraction that we’ve already field-tested thoroughly. The big questions will be more about the parenting aspect of it although theoretically if you were discreet enough the kid wouldn’t know but everyone says “trust me the kid ALWAYS knows” so I don’t think we can rely on that, I think there’d have to be actual discussion which is why it would be nice to glimpse into the homes of people running these relationships to see how they explain daddy loves mommy even if daddy has other friends mommy is special bla bla, which guys can study up on through forum discussions with people who do this (like AMAs on reddit for couples in these oLTR/pLTR arrangements etc).


YaReally
on August 25th, 2016 at 7:32 am
Original Link

@Sentient
“None of this is new… LOL. NONE of it.” “If only there were some books on this stuff… we gotta figure it out.”

Cool, give us the actual step by step. How did the old books say to deal with a girl having 2.6 million orbiters during a lull in your marriage, and no-fault divorce in a culture where masculinity is considered toxic and not doing what your wife wants is considered emotional abuse with the public and judges taking her side instead of calling her a witch and burning her at the stake, custody battles that assume the women deserves the kids and half your money, alimony for life (while she purposely doesn’t marry her next boyfriend so that the alimony you’re paying doesn’t stop), etc

We’re all ears. Lemme guess, it starts with “JUST BE…”


YaReally
on August 25th, 2016 at 8:09 am
Original Link

@Key
“YaReally wants a breakdown of modern m/ltr maintenance like gaming the smp – the functional equivalent of “just man up” or “follow the bible” is just not a practical modern roadmap”

This.

@Sentient
“Two points – the nature and biology of women is unchanged. So “new” ideas will ultimately come back to different words describing “old” ideas.

second – note I’ve never said “man up” or “Follow the bible”. You know that right?”

That’s what your advice has summarized as so far. Still waiting for you share the better advice that breaks down step by step how to keep girls raised in 2016 culture monogamous for 40+ years. Gonna keep dodging the question though I’m sure, because you don’t actually have any actionable answers. You got caught trying to pull off a cryptic wise old wizard “Just be DPA bro!” non-answer to argue for the sake of arguing, and now you’re dodging and sidestepping everything we ask you to explain or back up with field evidence lol


YaReally
on August 25th, 2016 at 8:47 am
Original Link

@Sentient
“But go on, keep describing how you need to carefully vet a young girl, give her a baby, keep her busy with family, reduce her distractions, keep yourself your MoP and focused on your mission… write it out as the Book of Tyler if it helps you, or do a Youtube since you don’t like to read….

But this is just the way things have ALWAYS been…”

Good, then save me some time and share the step by step with us. Make sure you account for the 2.6M followers, the no-fault divorce rapes, the lopsided family courts, the false social media spamming accusations, the eat pray love divorced single mom empowerment culture, the Amy Schumer, Lena Dunham, Bad Moms movies etc influences.

I mean, lay it out for us, you got it all worked out and it’s all been figured out before to the letter so it should be easy for you.

Except you can’t, because you’re talking out your ass and still just trying to dodge around saying anything more concrete than “just be alpha bro”.

“So she thinks YOU are a high value guy… and as such she hasn’t run off with her 2.6 million orbiters has she? Why? because she will get all your money right and a new BF or two… but she hasn’t hmmmmm?”

How old is Andy’s wife again? You seem to have missed that the multiple times it was pointed out to you. And by “missed” I mean “it didn’t fit your narrative so you pretend it didn’t happen” lol She wasn’t raised in 2016 Tinder culture.

“Because things are difficult does not equal impossible. The juice may not be worth the squeeze to you at the end of the day… fair enough, each man will determine this for himself. But that is a different issue.”

No that’s THE issue. The squeeze has been too much to, in good conscience, recommend men risk for the juice. It’s sending lambs to the slaughter.

@key
“another modern roadmap may be needed for marriage”

Naw man, it’s already all laid out, Sentient just told us so. He won’t tell us how, or give anything concrete and he hasn’t done it himself with girls in 2016 culture, but trust him bro.


YaReally
on August 25th, 2016 at 8:57 am
Original Link

lol


YaReally
on August 25th, 2016 at 10:00 am
Original Link

@Sentient
“So the 22 YO you marry today is not aging right? Her body isn’t going to change anfter you knock her up right? She will never hit the wall? she has no biological expiration date?”

As was reported by other guys, including Rollo, even aging cougars have plenty of options these days, thanks to social media. Her body won’t be that bad, plenty of women come out of their first pregnancy still looking smokin hot especially if it’s in their early 20s.

I’m saying most guys aren’t going to make it from her being 22 to her her being 35+ past the wall, with 2016 girls.

“IF you as a man are willing to keep doing the work…”

So “BE ALPHA 24/7 FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE BRO”. Thanks for clearing that up.

“these men don’t just need the 10 Commandments, they need practical, specific steps in how to protect themselves and navigate this feminine disaster if we want them to buy in”

This. If you could cut her off from her social circles, family, friends, media, etc (move her into a cave somewhere), you could rely on just the oldschool “be alpha bro”. But that’s not how the world works now. We live in a world where men take their kids to the park and busybodies call the cops on the pedophile. We live in a world where men raise their voice and are labelled abusive and slandered worldwide because of one cell phone video. We live in a world where women’s relationships are falling apart and they help sabotage their friends’ relationships so they have single girlfriends to suffer with them. We live in a world where a girls and kids make false accusations for attention or over trivial shit like having to pay an $8 cab fare.

Still waiting on your step by step for handling all that.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 2:59 am
Original Link

Just ran across (yet another) shitload of red pill guys reporting from the field confirming what I’ve been saying about the diff between <25yo crowd now VS even 5-10 years ago before social media picked up full steam:

So many "I thought I was the only one who noticed this"s in there, and the only real solution anyone has is "just don't get into LTRs anymore", because no one has a way to realistically navigate 2016 culture to keep this next gen of social media culture chicks around for 10+ years to have kids with. Which goes back to what I was saying before about girls and their options and orbiters now. You can't get rid of that shit, it's here to stay and being dynamic and passionate won't keep her family from wondering why you've made her delete her facebook or her friends from wondering why you won't let her hang out with their orbiter chode BFF guy-friend or male co-workers etc

Also hard lolz at this red pill display:

Pedestalizes her endlessly for like 4 min straight and then gets friend-zone dissed when he goes for the kiss lol You can't negotiate desire and more supplication does not equal more attraction. The "fuck my life" look in her eyes as she puts her hand on his head looking over his shoulder says it all lol Probably wishing she was getting fucked by Chris Brown instead of up on that stage with an awkward orbiter chode confessing his love for her.

You can be rich as fuck, with millions of fangirls who would blow you in a heartbeat, in the prime of your life, looking the best you'll ever look, and you can still be the Beta Bucks if you don't "just get it".

lol dem subcomms.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 8:37 am
Original Link

@Andy
“Terrifying. Is it even enjoyable to hang with these girls?”

Depends on what you’re looking for from them. I love being around <25yo hotties, but I'm not looking for a dog that can do my taxes for me lol

@Klem
"I feel like it’s going to be the same for relationships : you won’t “secure” a particular girl, but have an array of girls to choose from, depending on your particular wants/needs at the time."

lol that's basically how girls are treating the Tinder/social media stuff. "I want you now, in this moment, and if you aren't up for it shrug I'll find someone else and maybe you'll get another shot down the road if I'm in the mood and you haven't been replaced by a dozen other offers by then" In the past if she couldn't get a pizza, she'd wait for the store to open…now she'll just order from somewhere else and call it that pizza store's loss.

The problem for guys is that the average guy can't easily rack up orbiters the way the average girl can, so relying on online shit is always going to be a losing game for guys.

80/20 becoming 90/10 as guys lose their social skills and the art of cold approach dies to be fully replaced with messaging because boys can't even look girls in the eye anymore and their role model Drake is teaching them to be a chode and they're absorbed into VR girlfriends that don't involve risking rejection:

@Blaximus
"Pro tip- just like ” leagues” , secret society is yet another filter. There’s nothing one dude can know that another can not."

Yup, "Secret Society" is just what PUAs call Rollo's "just getting it". It's not supposed to be a barrier/filter, it's just a sign that you're demonstrating that you understand the Red Pill enough that you get included in the fun and games that the Secret Society is taking part in all around the Blue Pill society that doesn't "just get it" without them realizing. Anyone can become Secret Society, if they swallow the red pill far enough.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 11:54 am
Original Link

@gb_hill
lol’ed hard when I got to the comment section and read your “That being said, I don’t see that your day game skill is better than Deepak’s” That’s literally exactly what went through my head when I watched some of Deepak’s infield as soon as I loaded the article to see what the guy is like infield. Looks about the same as Krauser’s except that Deepak stammers a shitload more. I can’t imagine how these ESL girls have any idea what he’s saying lol

He’s saying pretty much the same shit Krauser does. Says the same shit and stammers just as much in this one:

I only watched a few minutes of these because they’re excruciating to watch, but if these euro guys’ vids in general are all legit and the girls really just happily stop and listen to a guy stammer and ramble and happily volunteer information about themselves from the word hello, then I’m amazed their pull rate isn’t 50 lays in 50 days lol This should would get raped so hard over here outside of like, massive tourist districts maybe.

Deepak again:

The first one isn’t anything too crazy unrealistic…they’re just there for a few days, might as well go on an adventure. Second girls are just super receptive from the start. Third girl, he ignores her friend and her friend doesn’t care at all? wtf lol This looks like such an effortless cakewalk…I’d be surprised if these guys WEREN’T pulling all these immediately receptive totally passive girls that just instantly open up and have nowhere to go, nothing to do, and just wander off with strangers. Hearing these guys talk about daygame being tough is like watching people pushing 5 year old children around and talking about training as a champion fighter lol

To Deepak’s credit: as harsh as his English and Apu accent is, he does naturally have breaking rapport authoritative tonality (every word in that harsh accent ends on breaking tonality) and a deep voice. A lot of the London guys have uptalk seeking rapport tonality at times but Deepak almost never does. He’s got a busted face but his body language is decent, even though his words stammer all over the place if you watch him with the volume off he stands pretty solid, leans back, makes purposeful gestures as he talks, makes eye-contact, leads when he has some compliance/interest.

Physical looks-wise he’s in good shape and he’s usually dressed fairly stylish and groomed well, like he’s not that fat old fugly indian dude Krauser posted halfway through his article where it’s like “okay I’m more skeptical of this, let’s look at this closer”, I’ve rolled with brown dudes who aren’t much better looking than Deepak that do just fine with hot chicks (white and otherwise).

I don’t know about the 25 in 50 thing, if that’s all you do all day every day who knows, but I’m not seeing any real standout red flags in these infields other than the insane instant receptivity of euro girls which is the same shit I see in Krauser, Torero, etc vids. Girls with just nothing to do, wandering around and excited to talk to a stranger and dump their personal details and life story on them instead of putting up ANY kind of resistance like over here lol

So if Krauser’s vids are legit in terms of that’s how easy girls over there are to open, and I then I don’t see any blatant reason the infield I’ve seen of Deepak so far couldn’t be legit.

I think Krauser’s hate-boner for minorities is clouding his judgement tbh. Turn the volume off on Deepak’s vids and just watch his body-language and it’s really not bad…you can do a lot with just good body-language and dominant breaking rapport tonality and eye-contact as we know from picking up girls who don’t speak the same language etc.

He does some good calibration here when he goes for the hug and she doesn’t hug back. He lays back more but she isn’t leaving so he keeps going, just build more comfort till she’s ready and when he goes for the handhold again later he’s got more comfort and it’s minor compliance so she’s cool with it.

Again though, do these girls have NOTHING TO DO?? No jobs? No friends to go see? They just stand around waiting for guys to talk to them so they can walk off with the first one that isn’t super lame? lol These guys should be fucking everything they open if this is what it’s like. How could you NOT get laid when they’re this receptive? lol Most of this would get raped in our culture.

“Also, Justin and Deepak have the same type of visual evidence as you do; ie hidden cameras. Deepak has shown close to 40 lays at this point; just as many if not more than you. He has shown sdls, d2s; he’s even shown tough sets and blowouts.”

Ya, I don’t really see how Krauser is calling him out on his infield when it’s pretty similar to his own. The English is shittier, but his subcomms aren’t bad.

“I’m thinking here of YaReally’s constant stressing of “behavioral sub-communications” or “subcomms”.”

Ya, when I look at these I give them a first watch to see the overall vibe and if it’s boring or the girl is reacting weird then I look at the subcomms to explain what’s going on. A lot of fake infield has subcomms that just don’t align with what’s going on, like when a hooker/stripper hits on you but she’s just going through the motions VS when she’s actually attracted.

“But it boils down to this, the Waynes don’t agree with the number farming approach to daygame.”

Me neither and neither did Mystery. The whole point of oldschool PUA was that you should be able to turn those “no” girls around by understanding the psychology (like “oh, I need to DHV more”), not just writing them off because you’re leaving the city in a day and you need to find a more receptive target.

But Mystery also developed his game over here where the girls gave more shit than these euro chicks seem to. No wonder Julien loves it in Europe, he can just throw half these girls over his shoulder and walk off with them, I don’t know why these guys are even wasting time talking so much with how instantly receptive the girls are lol

I don’t know anything about the Justin Wayne system VS the Deepak System VS the Krauser System, it’s all just guys repackaging and reselling PUA concepts to me and they’re all gaming what look to be the friendliest easiest girls in the world, so I don’t care about who’s system is better, these guys should all be slaying unreal numbers of poon in that environment with ANY system lol

“I’ll be honest, I’m not crazy about interracial pairings. I have more than a little alt-right in me (although I don’t go off the deep end like you do with the Jew extermination crap, Jesus fucking Christ…)”

lolol Tons of my buddies and social circles are minorities. Maybe that’s why the Deepak infield isn’t that shocking to me. I see white girls banging brown asian black etc dudes all the time. Girls don’t care, it’s all subcomms to them. There are chodey brown guys that can’t get laid and cool alpha brown guys that kill it.

“But system-wise, I have no problem believing that the Wayne system would allow a skilled practitioner to achieve more success than you or Torero (but yeah, 25 girls in 50 days does sound embellished).”

Ya, I’m not really seeing anything there that looks much different from Krauser or Torero’s infield. I’m skeptical of the 25 in 50, but I’m not watching this infield going “WHAAAT!! BULLLLSHIT!! That would NEVER happen!! What, he did THAT and she reacted like THAT?? No fucking WAY!!” etc If you can get past the fact that he’s a brown dude and a bit busted up in the face and his shitty english/accent and look at the subcomms, he’s probably a good example of decent subcomms making up for those other “flaws” (if you believe looks matter that is).

I think it’s surreal that Krauser is calling someone else out on being uncharismatic and charmless and boring to listen to when his videos just drone on and on. If we’re basing whether they’re good or not on their “talking to the camera charisma”, I mean, shit, Krauser is calling himself a scammer lol

“That you think it takes 50 to 100 approaches to get “younger, tighter, hotter” shows me that your paradigm is flawed.”

Ya, I’ve pointed out my issues with Krauser’s “no” girls mentality before. I think both him and Deepak would get raped in a big-city nightclub over here trying to run this stuff so I have the same complaints for both systems: they’re not really teaching guys the full range of pickup skills (like handling AMOGs and running groups and mixed sets and dealing with hard shit-tests etc).

But I don’t see a reason what Deepak is doing in these infields is any less likely to succeed than what I’ve seen in Krauser’s infield. And I don’t get how these euro guys aren’t ALL pulling 50 in 50 with how mindblowingly instantly receptive these girls are lol


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 11:57 am
Original Link

fuck, I can’t internet today. THIS IS THE VIDEO I MEANT lol:

You can delete the “oops that last vid was supposed to be this one” post Rollo, this is the last vid I meant to link where he kisses the blonde lol


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 12:37 pm
Original Link

lolol holy shit, Deepak calling Krauser out at 23:00:

Fucking hilarious because he’s dead-on to what I’ve been saying about macking friendly tourists and running away from “no” girls and hard shit-tests and avoiding clubs with AMOGs/cockblocks and not gaming girls over here to show this amazing flawless system (“oh those girls are all fat ugly rude bitches” lol try going to places with hot girls instead of shithole local dive bars in some bumblefuck town…you can’t find hot girls in New York, LA, Vegas, Miami, etc?). Fucking funny that this guy is just laying it out there.

Like Deepak says “if you live in America, you don’t have the luxury of running away to these other places, you have to learn how to game where you are, so how are you gonna learn from guys who spend their whole lives running away from their country where they can’t get laid and go to EE where they can avoid competition and get easy lays” That’s why I always point out that what Krauser is doing is probably good for guys in his location to learn, but Krauser would run into a nightmare trying to game in clubs and shit here.

“When the game skills are developed on easy circumstances, how can these skills be good skills?” I don’t think Kruaser and the London guys’ game is BAD, just limited.

Seems like this guy just realized that these girls are super receptive and have nothing to do but go home with a guy and is capitalizing on it instead of pretending it’s difficult lol It looks like he’s just like “I dunno, they’re all receptive so I just lead things forward and keep getting laid ’cause they have nothing better to do and I have decent enough subcomms for them to enjoy banging me on a random slow Tuesday afternoon”.

His voice is also breaking rapport authoritative tonality through this whole video…ironically his accent might actually HELP him because the girls can’t understand his actual words anyway if they’re ESL and he’s speaking this broken-ass English to them, so they may be going right to “I have no idea what he’s saying, but I like HOW he’s saying it…”

This all comes back to what I said way back about Krauser: he’s nowhere near his ACTUAL potential and his negative internal mindsets and ego-protection/defensiveness (“You could improve here” “No I’m the best!!” “Ok try your game over here or on that no girl” “NO I don’t want those girls and I nexted that no girl because no girls are impossible to get” “but what if you challenged yourself and tweaked your game like–” “NO I’m the best!!”) are going to keep holding hims back from reaching that potential.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 12:42 pm
Original Link

Actually the full call-out starts at 20:20 in that vid…he makes good points about training your skills in easy situations (“of course you’ll GET the skills, they just won’t be that strong because you don’t know how to overcome resistance so you’ll just filter the girl out and go for another girl”, I fully agree) and being adaptive (aka calibration, like oldschool PUA). And in his infield he seems to be calibrated, backing off when he gets resistance, leading forward when she’s showing receptiveness etc. And he’s talking about expressing yourself with your body language and emotions even if she doesn’t understand the language you’re speaking so he seems to understand subcomms.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 1:52 pm
Original Link

@Blaximus
“I think a lot of guys fantasize about harems and stuff, but they aren’t really able to realize this because They don’t understand that it comes with a whole other set of issues that have to be mastered.”

I agree, but I’d also say the opposite is true too. A lot of guys convince themselves they want monogamy because they can’t see any path to GETTING a harem (that’s for “other” guys, they don’t deserve it and don’t know how to get it and aren’t good-looking enough for it to happen etc etc limiting beliefs or lack of instruction/training) so it’s just ruled out completely. Like how a lot of newbies won’t even SEE the 9s and 10s at a bar, they’re literally invisible to them, because they’re so far outside their reality of what they deserve or can get that they aren’t worth having on their radar.

@Forge
“An orgasm is nice, but it’s damned brief. I bet i wouldn’t see the point of one if I found the 2 hours preceding it to be tedious rather than exhilarating.”

lol good mindset. It’s why I focus on trying to get guys to have FUN sarging instead of turning it into work or a chore with massive pressure. It’s not just the orgasm part, if you go out and just talk to a bunch of strangers you should still be proud of that night and take lessons away from it and develop parts of your skillset from that whether your dick got wet or not, and you should ENJOY that.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 1:56 pm
Original Link

@Klem
“but the beauty of it is that if you take minimal precautions (like Yareally’s egg mc muffin)”

Speaking of:

Pro athlete pumps & dumps a Tinder chick, she goes false rape accusation on him and flat out says it’s because he left too soon and didn’t give her cuddle time to make her feel special and didn’t txt her etc

If this guy had bought her an egg mcmuffin, he’d be fine.


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 2:09 pm
Original Link

And with perfect timing here comes Jeffy with some infield demonstrating some shit I’m talking about with the Deepak/Krauser stuff. Also for whoever it was that was asking if Jeffy has skillz:

Infield starts at 5:20 (with a slight description about the dynamic you’re about to see and a description of the AMOG in the set so you know what to look for), but the whole video is making some important points about making the girls chase you (aka what you need to do in the Tinder age, THEY have to choose YOU).

Girl is taller than Jeffy (in her heels at least), the other guy is taller than him, in better shape, better dressed, probably 15+ years younger, is physical with the girl, was in the set before Jeffy, etc

But watch the subcomms. Jeffy is chilling and unreactive and doing his thing self-amusing etc (DHV’ing (A1)) until he gets a bit of attraction (little subtle iois from her like paying attention to him over the other guy, engaging his conversation, laughing at what he says, aka A2) and then into qualifying her with the braces stuff (A3), etc etc

AMOG even puts his arm around Jeffy trying to AMOG him but Jeffy gives no fucks.

Note who’s more reactive to the other guy, the AMOG or Jeffy. The AMOG is clapping along to Jeffy’s stuff and reacting hard to him and trying to get protective on the girl etc, and whenever he does anything Jeffy ignores it or barely acknolwedges his existence (if he was her BFF guy friend or whatever, he’d have to include him, but this is just some guy trying to fuck her).

Once she touches his arm he pauses the vid because that’s the final turning point right there, like that’s where the deal is done. Note that once SHE’S chosen HIM, there’s nothing the other guy can do so he has to give up. He doesn’t cave Jeffy’s head in, the girl would tell him NOT to because the girl has CHOSEN him.

And note that he doesn’t say much, he’s just making small-talk, but he has guaranteed buying temperature spiking routines like “I like your (flaw), it makes you attainable” and “do you have kids? I’d like to impregnate you tonight…don’t worry, I take care of my kids. And by take care of them I mean have them aborted.” and “you make me feel weird…in the dick” etc

Those are all MASSIVE emotional impact routines (progressively moreso as her attraction increases, he doesn’t START with the aborted babies lol) and they’re self-amusing to him so because HE’S getting in state from them, she does too.

I’d like to see Krauser (and Deepak and all the London guys really) enter mixed sets like this to test their skills, with dudes putting their arm around them or hard cockblocks to disarm or turning around girls who shit-test hard etc. These are the kinds of things we’re dealing with over here in nightclubs because most non-major cities don’t have big tourist spots where we can find girls just strolling around doing nothing with no plans for the day instantly receptive and friendly…And especially if we aren’t super good-looking dudes where other guys just back off and let us have the girl, we have to deal with AMOGs and cockblocks and shit-tests, and this is the type of stuff we learned to handle back in the day with traditional PUA because, like Jeffy says at the start of the video “this guy looks at me and thinks I’m not a threat”, so we dealt with AMOGs and bitch-shields, and shit-tests and cockblocks etc

And that gives more credibility to Deepak comparing learning game as a minority brown dude aka low-value with a brutal accent VS being a british/american guy travelling to countries where that’s high-value:

The whole reason Tyler is good at what he does is because he’s an ugly balding midget lol he’s not going to have any problem with receptive friendly EE girls. The RSD guys run bootcamps all over the world including Europe and have no problems (or they wouldn’t be able to fill bootcamps there). I get shit-tests because of my looks but those are just opportunities to demonstrate value so it works in my favor…but you have to view it that way first (aka look to challenge yourself infield by sarging difficult sets VS just running away to look for “yes” girls).

I think if Krauser’s going to hate on Deepak, he should break down some of Deepak’s infield to show exactly what’s fake to him about it instead of just “WUT A TERRORIST GETTING WHITE GURLS NO ITS IMPOSSIBLE FRAUD WAHHH!!!” and putting more focus on looks/race than subcomms/etc (ie – what ACTUALLY triggers attraction)

But for the guys heading out this weekend, pay attention to the little things in this clip and watch the full explanation at the start about “making her meet you halfway”. This is going to be key in this Tinder culture…she has to choose you over her other options or you’re in for a shitload of blueballs.

Also Jeffy’s 40 and still taking down young club chicks. I can’t see any reason to settle before 45 and any reason it won’t be possible to settle with a <25yo to pop out babies if I want to. A guy legally tying himself down to monogamy to one of the first 5 girls he's ever banged, in his 20s, is fucking insane to me lol


YaReally
on August 30th, 2016 at 2:25 pm
Original Link

@Klem
“I really believe that your anti Buyers Remorse routines (and the reasons behind them) should be drilled into guy’s head as much as “WEAR A CONDOM”””

Technology has changed things:

Imagine the same situation but it’s a girl in your apartment who you’re trying to kick out because she turned out to be bat-shit or you miscalibrated and the vibe got weird, or she got too drunk, or she’s a fuckbuddy etc giving you drama or you brought her and her girlfriend home and her girlfriend is a bitch or your buddy miscalibrates on the two-set you two bring home or this is your co-worker who you thought was hot at work and took out for drinks but didn’t realize she was a mess when she drinks etc etc

Listen to the sheer JOY in this girl’s irritating voice as she wields the power of destroying his LIFE through social media.

This girl runs a “private social club for 2000 ladies in the Los Angeles social scene who are movers and shakers”:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/inside-girls-night-exclusive-female-digital-club/story?id=37974468

“Getting into the highly selective group is tricky. At least three veteran women in the group have to nominate new members and, even then, they have to be deemed worthy of entry.

“One of the most interesting things about ‘Girls Night In’ is the exclusivity,” said Kristen V. Brown, a technology reporter with Fusion. “They cull members who are not active [in the social media group] because those are the lurkers who might spill the secrets. That allows it to be this really supportive, bare-all-your-dirty-laundry community.””

Click the link and get ready to lol at the video when you see the quality of girls in this exclusive club lol…these are the crem de la creme are they? lol…the chick herself, who was the one in that cab driver social media threatening video, is fat lol Amazing.

After SHE posted the video, because she thought she was so in the right that everyone would take HER side and ruin the cabbie’s life because she’s a super special important girl and feared ZERO consequences, she went on Twitter to describe it:

This random average/ugly girl should NOT have this kind of power over some random cab driver’s life and career and name. But they all do now, and they’re figuring it out, and they’re figuring out that there’s no consequence…Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all.

“Also, lol at being on Tinder, your are competing with fucking pro-athlete for the attention of a 6 with good selfie-taking skills hahahaha If that is not an incentive to just go out and start talking to girls IRL, I don’t know what is…”

Look at it this way: that pro-athlete guys are scared about is off fucking 6s on Tinder instead of approaching that smokin 8+ at the bar…so the gate’s wide open for someone else to step up and get her lol

@redlight
lololol that girl either was Rhianna or Rhianna is reading that story thinking “omg I should txt him…” while Drake orders his next batch of roses for her.


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 2:58 am
Original Link

@Blaximus
See this is why you’re my favorite old man here lol Instead of just doubling-down on “TRUST ME BRO I KNOW HOW IT WORKS I’M AN ENLIGHTENED OLD MAN YOU YOUNG WHIPPER-SNAPPERS DON’T KNOW HOW THE WORLD WORKS HERE’S MORE DEIDA PASSAGES AND FEELGOOD JUST BE DPA 24/7 BRO GIRLS IN MY DAY HAD DISTRACTIONS TOO IT WAS EXACTLY THE SAME BRAH” shit, you actually field test things and accept that maaaaaybe you weren’t as hip to the culture as you thought…and you learned some shit from it, like that I know what I’m talking about lol You aren’t too ego-invested in your theories to admit “It appears that I am mistaken in my understanding” like a boss.

“Yet, in speaking to these younger chicks, a majority do not use Tinder ( surprise!!!)”

lol did you ask them “do you use Tinder” or did you ask them “have you ever used Tinder” or did you ask them “have you ever made a profile on Tinder, even “as a joke””? Tinder is dying in popularity now, ’cause tech trends happen that fast, but a year or two ago those girls probably set up a profile at some point “just tos see” or “just for a laugh” (aka hamster rationalizing it to not seem “slutty”)

I just use Tinder as a shortcut for “hookup app” but there’ll always be Tinder in different forms out there, like some girls will use Snapchat to hook up, some will use Facebook, some will use Instagram or Twitter etc. “Tinder” just represents “hookup app for when you’re single and looking” even if Tinder starts falling out of popularity for a different app name.

“A majority have facebook, but the younger girls say that’s it is indeed for family and old folks.”

This is a good example. People hooked up like crazy on Facebook back when it was new, but now it’s mainly for old people and keeping in touch with family…but the point is that it’s a channel that gives them access to a wider selection of men than their direct social circle in real life gives them, whether it’s Facebook, Tinder, Snapchat, etc

“Older women, the 30-45 range, mostly use facebook. They use it for everything.”

Like posting pics of their cats lol But ya, Facebook is less popular with the <25yo crowd, the 30+yo crowd were the ones that Facebook first hit the scene with so it's more their social media comfort zone.

"Everybody older than 18 seems to use twitter pretty heavy."

Jian Ghomeshi would message girls who mentioned him on Twitter and seduce/fuck them. Dan Bilzerian has the same mentality, he built his epic social media just so he wouldn't have to go out and chase pussy, it would come to him. So even Twitter, a little 140 character app, gives girls access to their favorite celebrities. Pre-social media that girl would have to go to one of their shows or write them a letter and hope they replied sometime that year. Now they can send a bathroom selfie and James Franco will invite them to his hotel room and pro-athletes like that vid I linked will show up on their door to fuck them, all without qualifying them harder than "are you 18?" That's not the natural order of things from the caveman days lol

"I checked out a few of my goddaughters Instagrams…. I can’t unsee what I’ve seen. Wtf?????"

lol and that's just what they'll show you. You don't want to know what their private convos are like or what their Snapchat histories look like if they use it.

That's why I kind of roll my eyes at the guys who are like "oh I'm hip to how it is, I have a daughter". Like no, you know the bare surface level of what's going on…my buddies and I are the ones actually fucking her and her friends. I knew a girl who worked at a "massage parlor" when she was tight for cash, you think her parents will EVER know she did THAT shit?? Or that the reason she got the job was that her chick friend worked there and that girl's boyfriend is the one who encouraged them both to try it? lol

"I have to lol at some of my goddaughters though. Particularly the one that was dating Joe the Cop. Best thing Joe did was to cut her loose."

That kind of goes back to my point: by your screening standards that you're telling guys to have these days, ALL GIRLS ARE SCREENED OUT. Maybe some 0.00001% unicorn somewhere, but 99% of guys are going to have to accept that girls have social media and orbiters now, they aren't rare cases, that's the norm now, and guys need to understand how to deal with girls getting 5-digits worth of likes on their bathroom not-even-showing-nipple selfie. Pretending this stuff doesn't exist is silly.

If Joe the Cop cuts loose every girl who has Instagram or won't get rid of her orbiters and Facebook for him, Joe the Cop is going to not reproduce and Joe the Cop is going to die single lol

Guys dealing with these girls need a new plan for how to make an LTR work long enough to have/raise kids in a stable two-parent household. 'cause the old plan is fucked.

"There’s pics of her on tropical beaches, and on cruise ships, and most recently at the VMA’s. According to her pics, she’s living one non-stop party.( she is interning at a relatively shitty radio station in NYC, hence the VMA gig…)"

Yup. And what kind of guys do you think that's going to attract? Guys with money confidence etc who feel like they deserve a jet-setting rich girl like that who must be used to money. That image is going to weed out the bums and unconfident dudes.

And guys' profiles are just as much bullshit. She'll be sitting on a couch with her boring LTR because they're 4 years in and the NRE excitement is gone and they're just watching Netflix bored on a Tuesday night, and she's flipping through her 5-digit Instagram Likes seeing profiles of guys who are on tropical beaches, cruise ships, at the VMAs, living the most exciting lifestyle in the world and that guy LIKES her pic and messaged her lol

Does she REALIZE that guy is full of shit just like she is? Nope. 'cause there's a 0.00001% chance that he's not and her hindbrain needs to interact with him and explore that to see if he is or not because according to the pics he looks like he IS that, but interacting is what will tell her for sure.

Meanwhile her nice stable husband is just sitting on the couch beside her, scratching his balls asking her "So what do YOU want to eat tonight, honey?" HE'S not jetskiing like ChadThundercock69 on Instagram just posted a vid of him doing.

"Lol, man…this is BULLSHIT!!!!!! Fakery!!!! She just turmed 21 ( God help us all ) and is doing NOTHING real with herself at all. Pretty, pretty girl, but all of that partying and god knows what else is gonna take a nasty toll on her."

Why WOULD she do anything with herself? She has access to millionaires and they'll overlook her faults just like Elon Musk will walk headfirst into the noose with Amber Heard lol Society doesn't require her to do anything with herself to achieve her biological survival/replication goals except not be a 300lbs landwhale and even THEN with MySpace angles and a guy who shows up and decides to get himself drunk enough to fuck her instead of being rude and walking out on the date, she can still probably land a guy and survive/reproduce.

Guys are like "but don't they want to make something of themselves like we do?" NOPE lol They'll do the bare minimum and take the path of least resistance. A lot of smokin hot 8-10's "job" is literally to just be on social media all day crafting their social media image and taking offers from dudes or sponsors or clubs etc They'll have a mattress on the floor they sleep on and their clothes in a pile of garbage bags in the middle of their room (or even live at home) and sit on social media courting various offers until it's time to go get done up and go mingle with the most important/connected people in the nightlife scene that can help them network into their actress/modelling/singing/etc career lol Like that's a viable "career path" for an 8-10 these days. Sure some of them go to school or whatever, but they don't HAVE to.

"I posed a question to everybody: If a good man, your DREAM man, came into your life and asked you to get rid of your social media/dating apps, would you do this? The consensus is that no one would get rid of ALL of their media."

And in reality their DREAM MAN isn't going to be dating them…Brad Pitt in his prime isn't swooping in to date them. They're going to be dating Joe the Cop or some other average dude. If they won't give that shit up for Brad Pitt even in a fucking THEORETICAL THOUGHT EXPERIMENT where they have NO REASON to not just lie and say "ya totally, so uhhh, do you know any guys like that that you can introduce me to???" the idea that they would give up their social media is so absurd that they won't even bother to lie about it lol It's so normalized it doesn't seem like a thing they SHOULD lie about.

"No one would get rid of Facebook for the very reasons you stated – family."

lol shocker. Guess how I know that answer comes up…because I go out instead of waxing keyboard theory like other guys who think a girl's going to delete all her social media if you're just alpha enough bro and have no answers for how guys are supposed to handle situations where the girl won't delete it because of family etc because they're out of touch and haven't actually field tested their own fucking theories.

"When asked if their hubbies gave them shit about social media, every one of them said ” nope “. Curious."

Why would they? Those guys have no idea how this shit works. They're told "it's just to keep in touch with family" or "it's just for work" or "oh it's just to keep in touch with my girlfriends look at this funny cat video Jenny posted!" etc

And they've been taught that if they DO try to give them shit, they're controlling and abusive and demanding, and they've entered a retarded legal agreement where their wife can take half their shit and custody of their kids and rake them for lifetime alimony if they come off too controlling abusive and demanding ('cause guess what's going to happen when he tries to "control" her? She's going to go on her social media just like that "racist cab driver" chick did and post something about how he demanded she delete this social media app, looking for sympathy and all her retarded girlfriends and white knights and orbiters ON that app are going to tell her "omg girlfriend he's abusive and controlling this is step 1 of abusive behavior I learned all about it when I was in my own string of abusive relationships because I don't screen men well, and that step is cutting you off from your support network, you need to get rid of him look I made a tinder account for you with your picture look how many other men you could get and your fav celebrity even Liked your bathroom selfie, you could get him and HE'D let you keep your social media, MY husband lets ME keep my social media, omg I'm so scared for you girl you need a restraining order on this controlling abusive man, I know the best divorce lawyer I'll hook you up, my mom, sisters, cousins, and half my female friends used them when they filed for their divorces from their abusive controlling men").

So why WOULD their hubbies hassle them about it? Might as well just punch a tiger lol

"Girls younger than 30, practically laughed in my face at the notion."

Field experience VS theory lol Again guess how I know this shit.

"As far as the ” dating apps “, the excuse is that they signed up for that stuff a long, long time ago, and only look in every once in a while out of boredom."

lol hamster rationalization. That's what they all say…"oh it was just for fun" "oh I just have it to laugh at guys" "oh I made a profile a long time ago but I don't even check it now" "oh it's just when I'm bored, but I'd never meet up with any of the guys" "oh I just use it to make new friends I'm not looking for anything on it" etc etc

The ending to all those excuses is "…but also there's a 0.0001% chance that a handsome rich millionaire dream guy will message me, soooo…" lol

Remember we're not talking about what they actually GET off social media, we're talking about the POTENTIAL that social media OFFERS them, in terms of theoretical high-value options, compared to pre-social media. Even if they never meet up with a single virtual orbiter, the point is that them having these kinds of options severely hampers a guy's ability to keep hand in a legal monogamous LTR long-term…'cause that guy is going to have periods where he's not DPA24/7360NOSCOPEBRO, and that Instagram guy will just be posting more pics of him on riding his motorcycle and having exciting adventures he's offering to take her on (when really he's sitting at home in his boxers watching TV as he types).

"The 16-19 year old set is getting insane validation, especially on instagram. The THIRST of the guys out there is incredible."

And that's at *16*. Like really process how young that is, to get that level of attention/validation, compared to any other time in our society, and how that's going to affect their view of the world and men and relationships and monogamy and being "tied down" in a marriage in the suburbs with kids and PTA meetings and shit in their 20s etc

If I handed you endless billions of dollars on your 16th birthday, would you really have good financial management habits at 21? Wouldn't it be silly of me to expect you to? And would you give up that endless billions of dollars for your dream girl who will give you $1 a day? Or would you laugh in my face at the notion.

"I felt like a pedophile, lol. All of those catholic school uniforms were gone, replaced by skin tight cleavage and booty camel toe outfits"

lol they didn't make em like that when I was in high school that's for sure. I see underage chicks out and about where I'm just like how the fuck are you allowed out of the house dressed like that wtf?? And you can bet those same girls have Instagram accounts.

"These chicks have likes in the 5 digit range. Crazy. I hope they are all from teenaged boys….jk, I guess."

lol for the sake of your sanity let's pretend that they are, you've been through enough today. πŸ˜›

"I asked if these broads use social media to hook up or find dates. All of the married chicks said absolutely not. Lol."

Of COURSE they don't. lol Just like they wear makeup and push-up bras "for themselves" and go to bars "just to dance".

"the 26 and younger crowd were mixed. About half said that they were open to it, but in the past it has been pretty much a bust."

Ya 'cause now it has negative connotations, 'cause all the low-value people are doing it. Like, chodes and uggos have flooded Tinder enough that using it kind of implies the girl must not be attractive to have to use it or that she has low standards because the guys are low-value etc

Funnily enough Instagram tends to be mainly for hot girls. The uggos know to stay on Tinder and POF etc, but the hot girls all love Instagram. I don't know enough about how Instagram works to explain that but I'd imagine the public likes have something to do with it…ie – an ugly girl on Tinder will get her profile shown just as much as a hot girl and she can pretend she's a hot girl, but an ugly girl on Instagram is going to get zero likes and hateful comments so just the hotter girls are more likely to use it. That's just jockey theory though, I don't actually use social media myself so I only understand the broad strokes of how some of these apps work and there may be other nuances behind this.

"The 18 and younger bunch marveled at the thirst, but I sense that they feel empowered by the thirst that they mock. Spidey senses were tingling like a motherfucker."

lol ya, in the old days they would be the underage girls with fake IDs who snuck into a nightclub and are trying to get guys to buy them drinks to learn how to use their superpowers and how to manipulate the thirsty men around them…now they can hone those skills for hours every day on social media starting at 16 (or younger).

"So I stopped a few random chicks in public."

HARASSMENT!!!

"side story – I approached a certified landwhale in the parking lot at the mall, and she apologized to me, saying that ” I have a boyfriend…you’re cute and all, but I’m sorry."

fucking lol

"2 women replied ” absolutely “."

Probably the older/uglier ones.

"1 was older looking than me, but I don’t think she actually was. Stress? Hard living? I dunno. The other was an HB4 on a good day, with really bad teeth. Oh, and eyebrows like Abe Vigoda"

…yup. lol Again, shocker. Ask me how I know this shit lol

"The rest, about 7, asked ” why? why do I have to get rid of social media??”."

They legitimately can't understand why they would have to. It's so normalized and the hamster rationalization to avoid accountability runs SO DEEP in society ("oh it's just to keep in touch with my friends" etc) that it's like asking them to give up breathing.

"This is for you YaReally. I heard your voice in my head – half of the remaining women said that what I put forth sounded ” controlling ” and that ” No man was worth being controlled “."

lol well HOLY SHIT. Look at that @Sentient. How could I POSSIBLY know that they're going to say that, down to the exact fucking words, I just don't understand it?? It's almost like the combined field experience of shitloads of men trying to get women to do this shit (and Blax wasn't even trying to MAKE them do it, he was asking a hypothetical where they could COMPLETELY LIE AND SAY THEY WILL if they wanted to lol they won't even give it up in a THOUGHT EXPERIMENT) overrules your keyboard theory that you haven't even tested. But please, post another pic of a dude with a fish as an example of how you can easily keep these girls around for 40+ years through thick and thing no problem.

Meanwhile we'll rely on actual field-tested data.

"The other half asked something along the lines of ” what exactly is in it for me??”.

So I elaborated – Love and happiness. Complete fulfillment. All of your fantasies and sexual desires met. Beautiful home, money in the bank…. I was running out of shit."

lol note how much you have to keep offering. Like love and happiness they just blank stare you on. Complete fullfillment? Nope. Joe the Cop could offer all of that but okay what if he also brings all their fantasies and sexual desires to life? Nope, still not good enough. What if Joe works his ass off to get them a beautiful home and give them tons of money? Still not good enough? They expect MORE? Because they have millionaires on Instagram Liking them and they've been taught by social media and social conditioning from their early teens how this is all supposed to work?

So how is Joe the Cop going to land himself a mono LTR with an 8+/10, legally tied to her and unable to remove her social media? Maybe if he gets a boat and goes fishing around the world like Sentient's dude, but is that a realistic plan for the 90% of dudes who are out there looking to settle down with a girl and start a family at some point in their lives? Everyone just alpha up and be alpha 24/7 for the rest of their lives on top of offering all that shit you suggested the girls would get out of the deal?

"The replies surprised me because they sounded disingenuous. Practically all of them stated that they could find a man on their own, that could provide all of those things without putting demands on them."

lol they legitimately think that. Because social conditioning has convinced them of it and because enough Elon Musks and Dan Bilzerians and David Beckhams and Kanye Wests will let them have social media (ie – not be demanding/controlling) and feminism has convinced them that they'll be young forever and the wall doesn't exist because Amy Schumer lands a doctor in her movie where she acts like a piece of shit and their hindbrain sees all these "highlight reel" profiles of guys that might whisk them away to a better life than their Joe the Cop average guy husband is providing them where they have to actually budget for groceries and can't eat out at the fancy 5-star restaraunt her friends (who are all fucking sugardaddies) are all talking about.

And we want to still tell guys to voluntarily stick their head in that noose and tell them "just alpha up bro, it'll be fine, trust me marriage CAN work, so if you find that special girl you should take that fork in the road and just pretend like nothing in society has changed since Girls Just Wanna Have Fun was released"?? In a Red Pill forum?? C'mon lol Just go out infield like you did and SEE what guys are dealing with in 2016 you old farts.

"My. Knees. Grew. Weak. Demands???? Women took a proposition as a threat."

lol monogamy with a dude is a threat to their abundant better options these days. That's the mindset they're being raised with in 2016. It wasn't this over the top pre-social media or even in early social media. But now it's like, for her to settle with you means she can't go off on an adventure to Italy with her favorite celeb who just Liked her Instagram pic. What are YOU bringing to the table that she would cut off all those options and voluntarily sabotage her survival/replication going against her hindbrain's goals, for? How about Joe the Cop? Sure, during the NRE stage she might be cool with him, but that NRE stage is going to wear off after a year or two max and then he's just Joe the Cop, the average dude, and possibly kids, holding her back from getting a higher-value guy…whereas in the past her selection of men was more limited to just her direct local social circles.

"The kicker is that not all of the public chicks were young. None of them were particularly hot. 3 were cute. the rest were average at best, except for the bridge trolls that answered ” yes “.

What the actual fuck??????"

Yup. Now try the same thing with 8+/10 <25yo girls and for extra laughs try it with girls in nightclubs. The BARE MINIMUM field experience backs up what I've been arguing with jockeys for fucking weeks about. I wouldn't even waste my time with it but it fucks guys starting out up, because they walk into the field underprepared for the realities of dealing with 2016 girls.

Bad keyboard jockey advice that contradicts the field fucks guys up. It's DANGEROUS.

"But I am not done yet. I think that even if I rephrase the question and hit on them while doing so, I will get a dishonest answer. There’s no truth to be had here."

You should get a MORE dishonest answer if they're attracted to you, because then they're REALLY not going to admit they're on Instagram/Tinder/Snapchat/etc to find men, incase they can get you. But the second you walk away they'll have their phones out to go on their Whatsapp and tell all their girlfriends about how this hot older man was just macking on them.

It's all just following their biological wiring to maximize their chances of the best survival/replication possible. This is all predictable shit if you understand what drives them. Social media is their gateway to unimaginable levels of potential survival/replication success, so when you try to get them to delete it, you're telling them to go against their hindbrain. You might as well tell a beta chode to reject a smokin hot feminine friendly 10 that's attracted to him. You're gonna get the same level of resistance to that insane notion lol

And you're not even asking them to DELETE their social media. And you're not even PRESENTING a dream guy to them. You're giving them a fucking THOUGHT EXPERIMENT, where they can imagine the highest value guy in the UNIVERSE that doesn't even EXIST, and even in this THOUGHT experiment, they can't imagine giving up social media.

And Big Al is going to keep his girl in a monogamous legal marriage arrangement for 40+ years? And some dude is going to be "DPA" and a girl's going to delete all her social media for him for 40+ years? Fucking lol

Try getting these girls to delete ANY of their social media apps in front of you. Even their Tinder that they "totally never even use". You MIGHT be able to get them to delete Tinder if they haven't used it in months, and even that's a stretch, but even then they know they can just download it again if they change their mind and if you're flirting with them deleting Tinder could increase their chances of getting you so it could be worth deleting it in front of you to raise their value so you chase them and then downloading it again when they get home now that you're successfully duped lol

"We’ll see. It is interesting, I will say that much."

Welcome to FIELD EXPERIENCE lol This is why I give guys so much shit for their untested keyboard theories and why the PUA community had rules like "you have to field test this 3x and get laid from it before you even BOTHER to share it with anyone else" and we would all go field test new shit en masse.

Field is king, the field reveals all.

"So YaReally, I owe you an Egg McMuffin."

lol it will taste like righteous vindication.

"I notice that people, millenials in particular, seem to be perpetually bored or bore very easily. It is absolutely amazing to me to witness. Trying to figure it out always points me to technology in some fashion."

Yup. We live in an instant gratification/stimulus culture. When I was a kid we'd go play outside and have to just find ways to entertain ourselves with whatever happened to be around us, for hours. Now those same kids will have an iPad with games and cartoons and entertainment at their fingertips. They don't have to look inward to find excitement, they're provided to it by magic technology machines…take away those machines and why would they have the skillset of generating their own excitement any more than taking booze away from an alcoholic will suddenly reveal amazing internal coping skills for dealing with life lol

It's funny because I grew up at just the right time to be pre-tech and post-tech. So I remember leaving the house and going biking with friends and stuff as a teenager without any cell phones or texting. You just talked on the phone, an actual verbal conversation (if they happened to be near their house phone to answer, and who knew who was going to answer or who you'd have to interact with to get to them) and set up a time and place and went there and if they showed they showed, if they didn't you waited around or tried to find them or went home and got an explanation hours later when you two finally got in touch again. And if you got into trouble or were running late, no one would know, not the person you're meeting with, not your parents, etc etc And this wasn't even stressful, this was just how it was. And if trouble happened you just learned to be self-reliant and figure out a solution to get home alive and safe maybe with a wild story.

Now I have a minor panic attack if my phone is on its last bit of battery or I forget it at home. Like "OMG WHAT IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, WHAT IF I NEED TO TXT MY BUDDY WHO'S AT THE BAR WITH ME, WHAT IF I GET INTO TROUBLE, WHAT IF I'M STUCK STANDING AROUND BORED AND NEED TO PRETEND TO TXT OR SURF THE NET TO PASS THE BUS RIDE DOWNTOWN–" lol And I'm a DUDE. Who grew up PRE-smartphones. But the addiction and social conditioning are real.

If I had a kid I would limit the fuck out of my kids' access to technology shit…but even then you run into the catch-22 of sure they learn to play with a stick in the yard but now they're getting made fun of at school for not being up to date with everyone else who knows the latest trends and shit. And they're telling your kid you're controlling and abusive. And your ex-wife is handing them iPads and if she hates you enough, is convincing them that telling this nice police man that daddy scares you so she can have full custody etc

Not that it's not possible to raise kids and not like "but Jenny at school has the coolest neon legwarmers and made fun of me for not having one can I please get some???" hasn't existed before, but these are all things to navigate and discuss for when red pill aware men have kids and have to deal with your daughter coming home crying that "Jenny from school made fun of me because I don't have a cell phone and all the other girls did too :(" and you're trying to keep her away from having cell phones and ipads and instagram and shit because you know it's a gateway into becoming another retarded zombie sucking dick and sending naked selfies to boys in her class at 16 like her friends lol

@thedeclineandfall

I don't necessarily disagree with that scenario. When I wrote my YaReally Reversion Theory where everything turns around when women realize that being feminine and in shape and cooking and cleaning will land them the high-value men, I didn't realize social media had gone full tilt into crazy-land and it wasn't in mass full swing yet like today and in the future. I still HOPE it happens, but with how thirsty guys are and how many high-value guys have ZERO standards and will fuck any random Tinder girl (like that pro-athlete guy with the False Rape Accusation I linked), it's hard to still picture a scenario where that girl who fucked him bothers to put in any more effort than she did to get him. And she's butthurt FRA'ing because she EXPECTED him to just WANT to date her, because she exists and sucked his dick lol

So like, it's GUYS that are fucking up my Reversion Theory…I was expecting high-value guys to have some kind of standards, but NOPE, the thirst is real as fuck these days lol And lots of these guys will even settle with these girls or accidentally knock them up and stick around, not JUST pump & dump them like they should.

So I don't know WHERE we're headed, but I know fully swallowing the Red Pill is the first step toward survival/prosperity in whatever dark age is coming our way as we sip our drinks poolside watching it all burn down around us.

@hank @scray
lol I stand by my prior position on this one. We can tell a guy how to pickup in one sentence: just be yourself. But the guy's gotta baby step his way through all the things leading up to that that make that advice work for him.

Maybe the disconnect is that Scray had a social network when he started out (he was already going to clubs with friends and in school with people who know him and being invited to house parties etc) and I didn't and it sounds like Hank doesn't, so I can relate to Hank's situation a bit more. When you have ANY friends taking you out to bars at all, you have some basic social experience and basic calibration experience (or they wouldn't take you out in public) and the leap from "talking to people" to "doing cold reads" isn't that big a leap, it's just a tweak of what you're doing. When you're basically a hermit shut-in who's never talked to girls before, AND you're in an environment with nothing fuckable trying to run sober daygame, it's just gonna take a bit longer to work up to being a charismatic guy cold-reading and executing because you're just working with shitty circumstances.

"Far from saying I am a special case, lol, I am saying mine is pretty much STANDARD. Which is why I bring it up because more and more guys are going to be starting the pua journey from a lower starting point and it is important to take that in consideration when giving advice."

This lol Like, it's great if you can start your PUA journey when you already have some kind of even semi-active social life where you have some people to go to a bar with or there are some cute girls at a party you're going to etc, but for the guys starting from literal nothing, in a shitty city full of uggos, without even having nightclubs to rack up momentum and experience in, having to converse with old married couples and shit…it's just harder to rack up much successful experience to build confidence off or to be able to fake it congruently with.

But either way I just don't see it as a big deal in Hank's case because he isn't in a rush. I'd be pushing the guns harder if Hank was like "if I don't get laid by next Tuesday I'm giving up forever!! I NEED TO GET LAID SO BAD AHHHH!!!" or if he was out at nightclubs full of hot girls, but he knows he's working with a shitty selection and that his main progress is going to come when he gets to a better city, and he's already working toward getting TO that city (props on that btw) when most guys would just wait and not go out at ALL until they got to that city. If he gets to that new city and he's walking into nightclubs full of 7+s and he's dropping the ball, cool, we can work on fixing that and I'll be one of the first to give him shit lol

But I wasn't pulling out hardcore sexual routines in my first couple months because I had never even TALKED to girls, I wasn't even talking to old couples and shit, the only people who heard me talk were close friends I grew up with pretty much. I vividly remember the moment I tried my first blatantly sexual topic opener (not even a direct opener lol it was just a sexual group-question) and it was like a year+ into sarging in nightclubs and even with a year under my belt I was terrified to do it and fully expecting to get slapped and thrown out. It went great of course, but that was because by then I had enough experience baby-stepping up to navigate the reactions and enough confidence from that baby-stepping to feel like "okay I can do this".

If you had told the year-earlier version of me to run that same opener I would have said fuuuuck no and it would have bombed because I wasn't confident enough to in any way congruently pull it off or fake the confidence (I wouldn't even know what I was supposed to BE faking lol) because where would I GET confidence talking to girls from (VS if I had social circles already and was going to parties etc and was even AROUND girls) and I had to build up that confidence. And I had the benefit of being in a city full of nightclubs and girls to go hit up 5 nights a week. But put me in Hank's circumstances and I don't think I'd have made nearly as fast progress as I did. Even today, you put me alone in a nightclub full of 300lbs whales and I won't be pulling out my A game lol

I fully expect Hank to drop epic FRs when he gets to a better city. Dude has tons of potential and is putting in tons more work compared to other newbies I've seen. can't relate at all to the idea that he isn't putting in the hard work. I know guys that do well at clubs that won't approach girls in the daytime sober let alone go through the grind of walking around dead malls sober for hours sifting through talking to 4s and 2s trying to finally find one decent 5+ to open. That shit is a nightmare grind, ask me how I know lol


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 6:13 am
Original Link

@N1
That text convo was like reading two girlfriends texting eachother lol But nothing horrible. Phone culture is probably different out there, with everyone having foreign phones and calling cards and speaking different languages (less options for the girl, trickier communication required to get a point across etc) or whatever the fuck they do in these countries, VS over here where it’s just everyone has a smartphone and every smartphone has a few specific apps and most people can speak English on those apps. Like for all I know Krauser might be the only guy txting her and maybe social media isn’t big there yet, who knows. He’s more versed in their phone culture there, so there’s my disclaimer.

But over here when smartphones/social media culture weren’t so hardcore (so it was probably more similar to the culture Krauser’s gaming in) the type of txting he’s doing here WAS good shit and worked just fine. Now this kind of conversation might still work here if you made a good first impression but it’s pretty iffy…a hot girl has like a dozen of these conversations on the go at once, guys beating around the bush and sending funny pics and stuff just trying to build rapport/comfort and keep her attention going when she doesn’t have much A2 (or it’s worn off since their initial meet). That’s why I stress now just focus on making sure every txt you send is leading things forward, don’t try to seduce them over txt anymore, that’s what every guy with a Tinder app is trying to do to her lol Or phone her.

Or Time Bridge for an actual meetup hardcore like Mystery Method teaches and Julien expands on (if Krauser could put his ego aside he should watch Julien talk about number closing in his PIMP product and introduce some of that into his game…the “we’ll hang out sometime” stuff used to be fine and look nice and aloof but now <25yo girls make plans literally the night OF half the time so just time bridge hard for something the next day or two)

And "Except Saturday and Sunday" was pretty clearly the cue to push for a meetup and instead of leading it forward he backs off and then tries to pitch a meetup on a work night?? wtf lol "Except Saturday and Sunday" should've been followed up by just a dominant/leading assumption of attraction/success "Then Sunday we're going for coffee. Is the afternoon or evening better for you?" (not Saturday because if she's hot and social she has shit to do with people she's known longer than you on Saturday, and the "assume she wants to do it and give her two options that both involve doing it" thing is classic David DeAngelo)

She'll either agree and be glad you showed intent and took the lead, or she'll shit-test you like "lol I don't even know you yet! who said I'm going for coffee with you already??" or whatever because you're showing intent, but you just pass the shit-test ("you said it with your eyes when we met" or some shit) to spike attraction and set the meet up. If she KEEPS resisting, calibrate and pull back and talk about gay shit like her enjoying her job and buying sofa chairs and sending puppy raincoat pictures (you know, that "non-superficial" intellectual educated stuff, fucking lol'ed when you called that out).

That's how I'd run it. Doesn't matter though, the dude will just disqualify anything you say if you reference oldschool PUA because he's ego-invested with a madonna/whore complex (THESE girls are SPECIAL, like we haven't run into any "educated, intelligent, K-selected greyhounds" here in the last 15+ years of PUAs sarging lol might as well just write his Jezebel article saying "PUA game only works on dumb insecure drunk bar sluts!!!11, buy my product that's exactly the same thing but repackaged and with less versatility" and save himself some time).

He doesn't really fully understand traditional PUA which is why he keeps having revelations that he thinks he's discovered and coined, but were already in the old stuff because every guy who goes out infield enough discovers the same shit. That was one of the big critiques I made about his product he sent me: it's just Mystery Method (minus half the skillset) no matter how much he tries to claim it's not. I can go point by point through his system and explain what part of the oldschool PUA shit it's from and he's just renamed, just like with Manosphere shit (but it wouldn't change anything except start some Krauser VS YaReally beef which I don't have any real interest in. The guy is just a random PUA to me, I'd just like to see him actually reach his potential but he's got all this ego baggage that'll hold him back).

The difference with Krauser is that I think he's put in the field experience to have legitimately stumbled across a lot of this on his own and legitimately thinks his game is special and forged from sheer personal experience and has never been seen or taught before, but that's because, even if he's read it, he doesn't really have much of an understanding of the old PUA community text (MM, Tyler Digest, etc). Like me figuring out how to make fire and then saying everyone else who's had fire for years is ripping me off lol

The guy really needs to focus on just selling his product instead of trying to hate on every other pickup group. It's a really negative mindset and implies that he doesn't really think what he's selling can sell itself on its quality. I think he's still pretty insecure deep down, with the underdog mindset like he's scamming the system by getting these girls instead of actually deserving them.

His whole persona is based around attacking everyone else, like Deepak shows infield footage that's about the same level as his own (despite what he thinks in his grandiose vision of everything he does, and it's better than Torreros shit lol, I mean if we're going to say guys who aren't charismatic on camera and don't look like they get laid etc and all…and even then RSDTodd is a fucking robot but he has plenty of infield) and has about the same red flags as his own footage (ridiculously friendly girls who just stand there like they have nothing else to do with their day except listen to a guy talk about squirrels and his trip to Japan) and he rails on about Deepak obviously being a scammer and if Deepak shows anything successful "oh those girls were ugly bla bla bla oh you only took them home but we don't know if you actually put your dick inside them so the whole thing is DISREGARDED AS FAKE PAID MODELS NO ONE LOOK AT HIS STUFF LOOK AT MY STUFF INSTEAD lol"

Like it's all just a squirmy way of avoiding his ego accepting the possibility that other guys he might not like might know their shit and might even be better than him or be able to punch higher above their weight than he's able to with his shitty mindsets and insecurities. I don't get why he's all riled up about some guy doing well over there…with the level of receptiveness these guys all get in EE, that shit would be like a fucking cakewalk for SDL pulls lol Literally the only real worry would be the logistics, with that level of receptiveness and that level of easy mode "no cockblocks, no AMOGs, no cell phones, no distractions" shit they're dealing with. I don't see any reason a Julien or Max or Tyler wouldn't pull for sex daily there with how receptive they are. You watch daygame infield here and the guys usually have to walk with the girl down the street bare minimum 'cause the girls actually have shit to do instead of just wandering around aimlessly all day.

But even all that shit, I don't mind that much, people can make their own life choices, except that it's mindblowing when he calls out other people for doing EXACTLY what he's doing lol He calls out Deepak for having boring uncharismatic podcasts when 90% of his are droning boring shit. He calls out other guys for not showing girls when Deepak's showing a bunch of girls and half of Krauser's showing girls is showing a Google Image of a girl who she totally looked 100% exactly like except with even BIGGER tits and then his actual videos are always just average girls or the footage ends and he just says how the date went. He calls out Deepak as "well he doesn't look like a guy who gets any girls" not seeming to realize that he doesn't look like one either lol He calls out Roosh for filtering for pure Yes girls when he does the same thing himself and you can hear him bailing on "no" girls that he could've turned around if he pressure-tested his game and learned how to handle difficult situations. He calls everyone else out on stealing his stuff and repackaging it and not giving him credit when 90% of what he's teaching is just oldschool PUA repackaged as he slanders the old teaching.

It's just silly to watch and makes me feel embarrassed for him at times. I'm sure it works on his fanboys because they're only really getting their information from him and maybe some other source. But for us guys who've been around for a while and know the old stuff, it's pretty obvious what he's doing. And honestly I don't even have a problem with it (aside from my eyes hurting from rolling), as long as the information he's giving guys is going to help them…and I've said before that I think it will, it's just really limited and going to help guys with tourist districts full of weirdly friendly girls with nothing to do, more than guys dealing with more common environments over here, that's all.

@Sentient
"OK, look forward to the presentation of such."

You mean when you post how you got <25yo 7+/10s to delete all their social media for 40+ years for you? Yes, I'm waiting for that too.

"so if he was asking them what they are attracted to in guys you going to back that field tested responses too? HEY GUYZ GIRLZ SAY THEY WANT YOU TO BE URSELF!!!! FIELD IS KING!!!"

There's reason for girls to lie in a way that makes them seem more Madonna than Whore and there are stakes on the table (like the prospect of landing a man or creating better men for them to select from) and "just be yourself" is their attempt to make better men to select from.

There's no real reason for girls to lie when you ask them what ice cream flavor is their favorte because there's no stakes on the table, which is my point, their social media culture is so normalized that it's not even worth lying about. Plus you can literally open any of their social media and see for yourself. Or hang out with them and watch them choosing that shit over guys. It's all right in front of you.

"Because you’ve never heard of any girl changing her convictions, her religion, her geography, her friends, her family, leaving her own children… for a man… right? there are no field stories of that ever."

Sure, pre-2016. How many <25yo 7+/10s in 2016 will keep those convictions changed through thick and thin even when their man goes through tough periods where he isn't at his prime, when she has thousands of other men offering her the world, for 40+ years? You think magic will happen because it did in the past, which is like saying people girls will all churn butter because at some point in history they did that. I'm saying now that we can buy butter at the store, they have less incentive to bother churning. You might convince them to during the New Relationship Energy stage for the first year or two, but for 40+ years when all their friends are buying butter at the store and dangling it in front of them and thousands of men are offering them endless supplies of butter and never having to churn again in their life and you go through some rough times and ask her to churn TWICE as hard for a couple years and you've signed a legal contract where if she says the word she can have everything including a lifetime supply of butter and no need to ever churn again a day in her life along with attention and validation and pats on the back and you go grrls? For 40+ years you think she's going to take the path of most resistance and avoid biting the apple with no incentive besides the things Blaximus listed that the girls gave zero fucks about?

Do you even basic human reward/motivation psychology 101 bro? lol

You MIGHT pull it off, maybe even for 10-20 years…but I sure wouldn't point guys toward THAT roulette table.

"And keep trying to smear the “you don’t go out” paint… It’s fascinating since you’ve commented on my FR’s for years now… But it will help you get internet warrior points I guess."

I don't care whether you go out or not. All that matters is "does what you're saying hold up infield or does it contradict what we're seeing en masse infield (like the Red Pill forum reports I linked earlier, I can link you hundreds more threats and Field Reports all reporting the same shit)? If it contradicts the field then you'd better have some legit hardcore field testing of it to show us…if you haven't even done it yourself, AND it contradicts the field experience of all the guys who've tried it, then you are keyboard theorizing and you are wrong. Sorry.

@DisgruntledEarthling
"I substituted hi-tech shit with horses and isolation on a farm. We’ll see in the next 20 years if it made a difference."

lol hopefully. But that's why I brought up the topic. 'cause we can't realistically send all guys to go live on farms and shit. We're going to need a gameplan for guys to deal with this stuff in cities full of shitty influences and unlimited options…or we can duck our head in the sand and pretend society hasn't changed, like Sentient lol


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 7:26 am
Original Link

@Rollo @Sentient
“At what stage do you throw out the surface value of ‘field observations’ and see that the Medium is the Message?”

No idea what this means or who this is to lol All I’m saying is you can’t say “girls will delete their social media for you by doing ABC” when you haven’t gotten them to do it consistently yourself and everyone who tries doing ABC has it fall flat and you’re basing it on a different culture with different culture influences and social conditioning.

This is just basic logic. You can GUESS at what’ll happen, but that’s just keyboard theory. And if that theory contradicts everything else we’re seeing en masse when we try to field test it, there’s a point where you have to accept that your theory doesn’t hold up.

So by default what Sentient is saying is an untested theory. And he’s not going to test it himself. Like I say, go get <25yo 7+/10 2016 girls to delete their social media for you and, if you can do it, see how that holds up past the New Relationship Energy stage when they get bored and you've legally tied yourself into having to make sure they stay happy for 40+ years…and then see how that holds up when you have a few bad weeks/months because you get sick or lose your job or a family member etc

His argument is that if it's not working then just offer MORE commitment and MORE providership and MORE legal contracts guaranteeing that you'll stay and it'll work. But 1) that goes against everything we know about dread game and how guys fix dead bedrooms and just basic attraction 101 and even fucking economics (the more available something is the less value it has), and 2) the only way to test this already silly theory that goes against everything we know and everyone's experiences infield (with this next generation of girls), is to send guys into the legal/financial/custodial noose to test it FOR him, which is absurd.

But he'll sit there and say "oh so you HAVEN'T jumped off the highest building you can find while looking north at 32 degrees, to prove that I'm WRONG that if you jump from a high enough building you'll be able to fly like Superman? WELL THEN OBVIOUSLY I'M RIGHT AND OUR EVIDENCE IS THE SAME. And all those guys that have splatted on the ground just weren't jumping from high enough buildings. TRUST ME BRO."

It's like debating a 5 year old who wants you to prove the boogeyman isn't under their bed and says "well he won't show up if you look for him, I KNOW he's there". Ok kid, time for bed lol


The Key Masters

Original Link

via Rational Male

YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 9:34 am
Original Link

@Sentient
“Also it’s not my argument…πŸ˜‰ but don’t let strawmen and red herrings get in the way of internet warrior point totaling…”

So clear it up. You have a habit of saying retarded stuff and then when called out on it saying “that’s not what I was saying” and just not following up.

@Andy
“Babies do change them…”

Sure, for a few years in the NRE stage of having a new baby. Longer than that? I dunno, ask the single moms on Tinder, divorcing guys, cheating in marriages, etc lol Like, guys have this need to think that once the cups are balanced on top of eachother they’ll just never fall so why not sign a legal agreement saying that’s going to be the case forever. It’s like going into a relationship expecting that your value at the start will stay no matter how far you let it slip.

“That being said, if you knocked up a 10 and some dude offered her life on a yacht in the Mediterranean and only the best schools and upbringing for her kids… Kind of a douche thing to do, but I’d worry about it a bit. Are there any non-materialistic girls left out there?”

I’d say it’s not even about materialistic. That guy is indicating that he’s going to be better at giving her survival/replication. Like, it’s like saying “aren’t there any guys who aren’t interested in a girl’s looks?” Probably, but very few. How many guys married to wives they’re bored with, in deadbedrooms with, wives have gotten fat, etc wouldn’t bail if there were NO consequences to it, for a hot young babe coming onto them offering long-term commitment (whether she’ll follow through or not, just like the yacht guy who’s not TELLING her he’s going to pump & dump her lol).

I just think it’s unrealistic to expect women to live up to standards and behaviors that MEN don’t even live up to half the time and we have some semblance of self-control in comparison. Like why WOULDN’T she go after yatch guy? When there’s NO consequences and ALL rewards in society and that guy is putting on the front that he’ll give her commitment and be better than you in every way etc and she’s mad at you over something? In the past, fear of god, fear of social shaming, fear of being an old maid dying alone, lack of options, etc…but NOW? I dunno, someone throw something out there. HONOR?? lol

“you have to be able to leave everything, including the kids, to train the baby momm”

And all I’m saying is let’s not push men toward legally signing papers and a noose that make that harder if not impossible for him to do and voluntarily tie his hands behind his back. No idea how that’s controversial.

@Rollo
“Theory is still necessary in tandem with field experience, observation, experimentation and then revision or confirmation of that hypothesis.”

We have field experience: guys have tried to settle with 2014+ hot girls and at most they can only have done it for 2 years and in that 2 years a shitload of those relationships tank hardcore.

We have observation: guys reporting from the field their experiments with dating 2014+ hot girls and how they’re glued to their social media etc and will choose it over them.

We have experimentation: guys trying a bunch of different ways to get girls to ignore their social media for them and again, in the NRE stage it can work, but the NRE stage ends.

And we have confirmation that that hypothesis either DOESN’T hold up or it hasn’t been long enough to actually say that it will hold up for a 40+ year legally monogamous marriage with kids where the guy can’t leave…but we also don’t have confirmation that it WILL hold up. Because we can’t know for years. But what we DO know is that there is nothing infield that points to this hypothesis holding up with 2014+ girls brought up in a different culture from the past where it DID hold up, and tons of evidence to support the opposite (like the threads I linked before that no one probably even read).

“Women say “in the field” that they want “nice, funny Beta guys with good hearts”, but the observable behaviors of women, in the field, obviously contradicts this.”

We have observable infield behavior. From guys trying this. It doesn’t work. You guys aren’t even trying it, even Sentient the one championing his theory isn’t actually trying it. It’s just THEORY and it’s theory that goes against what we DO know from the field.

“There comes a point where we have to see that women’s Medium is their Message and assess that what women say in the field isn’t backed up by their behavior in the field.”

I’ll be linking to this comment the next time you bring out your Harvard studies lol

I don’t want to rely on Blaximus’ report either. I’d rather you guys all go out and TRY this shit, but you won’t lol And the guys that do, and post their experiences of what women’s “behavior in the field” IS, is being disregarded for theory from a guy who hasn’t even made it work himself and now being backed up by guys not doing it themselves either. lol wut?

“Thus, we have to theorizes there is a reason for women’s duplicity, and test that against what we find, again, in the field.”

Please, EVERYONE go out and mack some <25yo 8+/10s and get them to delete their social media. I would LOVE it, so that you could just SEE for yourself instead of having theory debates.

This is exactly the same situation as Blue Pill guys refusing to believe that women like being teased and negs spike attraction etc, but refusing to go out and try it themselves and just declaring just buy her flowers works even though they haven't actually gotten the flowers thing to get them laid. We're telling you how this plays out infield…I don't want an LTR but plenty of other guys are offering commitment and monogamy and trying to get girls off their social media and it's falling flat.

This is why the PUA community just defaults to: go out and test it. Because this stuff is ridiculous. But you guys aren't going to go out and mack <25yo 8+/10s.

@Rollo can you even get the girls to leave their phones in a pile at the door at your bottle service events for the entire night? Like don't tell them ahead of time, just when they get there say "okay no phones, give em up". That's an easy lowball I'm giving you, you might be able to pull it off because you're paying them and charismatic and shit, and you aren't getting them to delete anything, just take a break for 8 hours…you SHOULD be able to do it. Are you gonna try it at your next event? And then see if you can get them to leave their phones for a week? Or to delete any of their Instagram accounts, that probably helped them get a job with a high-value man in Vegas surrounded by rich guys? Just toss that shit away?

@Sentient did you get your stripper hottie to delete her Instagram? Try promising her monogamy for a night, just to see if she'll delete it. Nice easy experiments, she already likes you so it should be no problem right?

Field is king. No matter how frustrating it is to accept some of the realities it reveals.


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 9:59 am
Original Link

@Rollo @Sentient
Can you offer ANY reason why a girl would NOT be attracted to a Hypergamously better suited man? That goes against the very concept OF Hypergamy.

Does Hypergamy just magically shut off once she’s found a high value guy? That goes against her constantly testing her captain to make sure he still has value and goes against her cheating or upgrading.

Is she just out of the goodness of her heart going to avoid looking at potentially better options? Again that goes against Hypergamy.

Does social media NOT present women with more potentially high-value options than pre-social media? Basic math says that’s ridiculous, of course it does.

Is Dread Game NOT based on her fearing that she may lose you? And is legal marriage NOT restricting your ability to leave? Basic logic.

So where does a theory like “she’ll delete all her orbiters and other options for you and if she doesn’t you just have to offer her more commitment” even get the credibility to be ENTERTAINED, when it goes against so many iron clad principles of Attraction?

This dynamic was always here, Hypergamy is on 24/7 and always was even pre-social media, but pre-social media they had a smaller selection of men and it was less socially acceptable to engage with a bunch of male suitors regularly.

How am I having to explain basic Red Pill shit lol


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 10:13 am
Original Link

Is it just that you guys REALLY want to hope that your daughters will be NAWALTs and resist all of this, the same way lots of Red Pill guys are still holding out hope that they’ll find the unicorn they can relax their burden of performance with? lol Or that it’s just too depressing to accept that the end of the traditional family life may be here?

Like, you have to go against so much already ironclad thoroughly tested logic to go along with this shit and it’s not even field tested by the guy theorizing it lol

How many <25yo 7+/10 girls do you know that don't have social media? That are happily married without Facebook etc? That have no orbiters? Do your daughters have no orbiters? No men talk to them except their boyfriend? They don't have ANY social media? At MOST they can be married 2 years and still be in the NRE stage (but probably the tail end), so report back to us over the next few years about whether they still have no social media accounts and no orbiters interacting with them.

If you Red Pill badass masters or guys that approve your standards to date your daughters can't even get them to do it, what hope do you think this next generation of FI-raised men is going to have?

The old legally-tying monoLTR system is dead. Women with social media or male friends are only offering pLTRs in 2016. Time to figure out how to work within the new system instead of desperately clutching to fantasies of the old.


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 10:16 am
Original Link

@kfg
“I find myself wondering why they’re out in the country, instead of on the track they had to pass right at the trail head. They’re certainly not out in the woods to be out in the woods. They never see or hear it.”

’cause they can take a selfie for their social media of them pretending to meditate on a tree trunk in a scenic area and title it “zen af (insert 3 nail painting emoticons)” and get validation from their followers.

…or maybe they’re hunting pokemon lol jk that trend is already dead.


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 11:47 am
Original Link

@Sentient
“well attraction and ACTING on it are worlds apart… and not inconsistent.”

Okay, so she’s going to develop self-control when, her entire life, she’s been taught to run with her emotions in the moment with no consequences and mostly endless rewards. Do people who spend their entire life building up bad habits often just voluntarily break them despite no change in incentive to do so and, again, rewards and cash & prizes from society if they keep that bad habit up? Is this something you want most men to bet their future, their finances, custody, and potentially jailtime on? VS an arrangement with no legal contract that helps minimize a lot of that and helps keep him attractive to her because he has the easy ability to walk away (until he has kids but at least then he doesn’t ALSO have the legal contract).

“No, but the desire to ACT on it is minimized based on the degree of relationship with a guy. Which is WHY she is testing, to make sure you are still close enough…”

So then you agree that if you slip up and stop passing her tests, she becomes more likely to stray. In what way is “be alpha 24/7 for the rest of your life, bro” not an accurate summary of what you just wrote?

“Assume she has no goodness in her heart… still doesn’t mean she is going to act on it, regardless of how attracted she is…”

Why not? Give me some reasons. She knows she’s very likely not going to lose you and if she does, well, this other guy seems to be a better prospect ANYWAY (War Brides rationalizations for better survival/replication potential in action).

What reason does she have to NOT act on it when all the messages she gets from society are that she’ll be fine/rewarded and still end up with a rich doctor if she DOES act on it?

In the past there was social shaming (gone now), religious shaming (gone now), single motherhood shaming (gone now), divorcee shaming (gone now), slut shaming (gone now), she didn’t get insane cash prizes and almost guaranteed custody of the kids like she does now (and if she doesn’t get it now she can throw in a false accusation and get it, with no consequence if she’s caught, as society has routinely demonstrated).

So what exactly do you think is going to keep her, a girl who’s biologically programmed to go for the highest-value survival/replication male she can attain, from leaving Joe the Accountant for your fish guy when he hits on her on her social media who’s promising to take care of her and live happily ever after. That’s literally, as far as her hindbrain is concerned, a better deal and there’s no real consequence to not accepting it.

So again, exactly what do you think is going to make her tell this, as far as her hindbrain knows and all we know about Hypergamy etc, amazing adventurous fish guy offering commitment and a better life (and assuming he has some game instead of being a social fuckup), to fuck off?

Gimme any reason at all.

“tell me, you’ve bathroom fucked in five minutes every girl who IHAB’D you?”

No, but I haven’t demonstrated higher value than the boyfriend of every girl who IHAB’D me. Ask a rockstar like Gene Simmons how many of the fangirls he’s fucked backstage had boyfriends or were married, he’s a guy who’s by default able to demonstrate to the girl that he’s higher value tahn her man.

Girls fuck higher value unless they have massive incentive not to and even THEN they’ll try to sneakily get away with it, because their hindbrain demands they chase the better survival/replication option. Just like there were still affairs and shit back in the old days, but at least religions and social conditioning tried to keep their Hypergamy in check and the lack of technology meant they had significantly less options to choose from.

Again why would a girl NOT fuck a higher-value man when her hindbrain is convinced there will be no consequences and Gene Simmons is offering her lifetime commitment on top of the sex, to get her pants off, and her man at home has had a few bad months trying to find another job or dealing with an illness or depression from a family member dying etc

“SM presents women with the simulacrum of high value men…”

Their hindbrains don’t know that, and the risk of passing up a high-value man is too big a risk to take most of the time, so they’re instinctively drawn to interact with the guy to test him to see if he IS high-value like his profile demonstrates.

“Our girl Elly on the La Vagabonde can Tinder to her hearts content… unless you got a submarine and are prepared to board our boy Riley’s dick is going in her, not yours… Virtual reality is still not actually reality…”

And yet here she is, all through her relationships, interacting with virtual men who give her the gina tingles he doesn’t give her even though none of us are fucking her. The validation women get from high-value men, even virtual, is often as good as sex to them. Girls don’t yawn and go “ho-hum whatever who cares” when their favorite rockstar celebrity Likes their selfie.

“Dread is based on fear of loss AND fear of replacement…”

You don’t have to have a girl actually sucking your dick for her to fear losing you. Just giving off the subcomms of a guy who girls would want to suck the dick of is enough to trigger dread.

But either way, do you disagree that legally tying yourself to her in a lopsided legal agreement in her favor, hampers your ability to replace her? Explain how that works. If you’re legally contracted to finish a job with the consequence of punishment and jailtime if you don’t finish it, how are you not less free to abort that job than if you don’t have a contract?

Like legitimately, how does that work in your head?


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 12:31 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“I get that you’re trying to avoid disinformation here, but if I were a newb who was listening to you I’d conclude that all relationships are hopeless so I might as well pump’n’dump or go MGTOW.”

Good. That’s a start. Let’s get them to stop thinking they’re going to find the NAWALT unicorn and live happily ever after when the field evidence shows that they’re probably NOT going to, so they’re less inclined to sign legal marriage contracts and we can start coming up with better approaches that don’t involve guys ending up divorce-raped and living out of their car working 2 jobs to support an ex-wife who’s fucking some guy from her office.

I mean, do we just let guys keep encouraging men to get legally married (“don’t worry, it’s not impossible if you’re badass enough”, “take that fork in the road if you meet a special UMC gal and it’ll all work out like it did for me with a woman from a different period in time with different influences”, etc) because the reality is kind of depressing?

That reality is only depressing because we don’t have an alternate option for them yet. If we had plans that would hold up in 2016+, we would just laugh at the outdated concept of legally tying yourself to a woman or expecting her to be monogamous for 40+ years with all these options around her and basing your life plans around that lopsided gamble.

“I agree with your point that social media has made things difficult and isn’t going away, and that there’s not really anything as single person can do to get it out of a girl’s life, but there is such a thing as overemphasizing THAT point too.”

I only re-emphasize it when people try to minimize it. The belief that “but THIS girl is special and those guys who have no experience making monoLTRs work in 2016 told me it can be done, so I’m going to stick my head in the noose” is why guys like Big Al enter into a marriage thinking common law applies to every state (aka not doing their research). They just hope things will work out. This is DAMAGING to men. Why don’t more people care about preventing future divorce-rapees and guys locked into deadbedrooms and shit? Why is suggesting that we look at alternative plans that DON’T involve legally noosing yourself so controversial or such a bothersome topic?

“You’re also asking for proofs that no-one can provide.”

Right, then it would be unusual for someone to say that they have the answer, when they literally can’t field test it…especially if that answer goes against multiple things we know and have thoroughly field tested about Attraction.

If people want to spout theory, cool, but label it as such instead of doubling down with zero field-tested experience in it giving guys false hope based on nothing but wishful thinking and an old culture that doesn’t exist anymore (and will be further stomped out as the years go on, we’re not going to have LESS tech and social media in the future).

“I agree that things look pretty ominous for monogamy as we knew it, but you don’t know that monogamy is going to fall apart any more than Sentient et all know that it isn’t.”

We can look at divorce/cheating/paternity/etc rates and how those trends have changed from 10-20+ years ago. We can look at guys field experiences trying monogamy. We can look at the pushes for open cuckoldry, open hypergamy, open alpha fucks and beta bucks. We can look at the popularity of social media and hookup apps and sites like Ashley Madison. We can look at all the “monogamous” chicks we’re banging who’s boyfriends and husbands have no idea. We can look at all the guys being divorced and with deadbedrooms.

I mean, what evidence do we really have that monogamy with a 2014+ <25yo 7+/10 girl works past the NRE stage or for 20+ years through thick and thin anymore? What reason do we have to even believe that it WOULD work besides social conditioning?

"There just hasn’t been the time to field test it yet, so all we can do is make our best hypothesis based on shorter-term interactions and past trends."

Anyone here know any <25yo 7+/10 girls who's gotten with a guy in 2014+ and deleted all their orbiters and social media from their life, and stayed happily monogamous even through NRE wearing off, no cheating or straying at any point? 'cause according to all the field reports we have from guys going out and banging taken girls and trying LTRs that flop, it doesn't seem like we have much anymore that suggests women will ignore their biology when there's no consequences (and actually rewards for following their biology).

"I suppose I’m just kinda confused about how you want us all to act. You say you want field testing of making monogamy work longterm in today’s world, while also saying that you’re trying to prevent men from being tricked into thinking it’s possible, which would prevent said field testing."

Long term monogamy under a legal contract is impossible (or so unrealistic that it's close to impossible) in today's world. But that doesn't mean LTRs of other natures (pLTR, mLTR, oLTR, unmarried, etc) are impossible to make work. I'd like to have some kind of discussion about alternative options but all I'm seeing is "ehh, I made it work with my 70yo wife, so guys should just agree to monogamy and get legally married taking that fork in the road, because nothing's changed".

The guys claiming long-term legally-contracted monogamy in 2016 can work haven't field tested that and, as I broke down before, it goes against many principles we already know to be true and fully tested. So the onus is on them to field-test their insane contradictory theory. But they won't.

"But I guess what this ACTUALLY is is you holding up a bullhorn and shouting ‘wake up and see, monogamy is dead!’ to warn everyone."

You got it. Big Al got congratulated for getting legally married. How the fuck does that happen? Dude didn't even know the basic legal shit regarding marriage and he's getting pats on the back walking to the noose?

You get oneitis for some random flakey chick and you're getting told to take that fork in the road she might be the special one?

How is Andy the only one really offering up any kind of ideas on this topic and everyone else just wants it to go away? Your guys' kids are the ones that are going to be dealing with this stuff lol

Like, why are we helping keep the FI going. Ripping off the bandaid hurts but the sooner we rip it off the sooner we can offer guys solutions…before we're all dead and they have to figure it out on their own.

"I agree that it probably is. I think maybe some dudes are a bit skeptical, but most AGREE with you."

It's really just Sentient that disagrees lol But he does it constantly and I keep thinking there's some way to get basic logic through his head.

"I think Sentient’s main point, for instance, is that EVEN IN THE NEW ENVIRONMENT a lot of the things that could help monogamy work before are the things that will help pLTR and other LTR circumstances work"

Sure, I agree with this. But he's specifically referenced that nothing has changed multiple times, as if none of these social/tech changes have any influence on girls compared to the old days.

"and give you a SHOT at things working well for you – though you must understand that nothing is certain or permanent, so ALSO arrange for that."

Right, by not getting legally married instead of being told "if she won't delete her social media for you, just offer her more commitment and she will"

@scray
"Monogamy can work….for short durations….maybe like 3-7 years MAXIMUM."

This. Why not just accept that and quit bullshitting guys to keep the feelgood happy ending dream alive? Why not just tell them "look, she's probably going to bail at 3-7 years, they call it the 7 year itch for a reason and in the old days social pressure etc would keep her there but now she'll be encouraged to leave you, so accept that from the start and protect yourself by not getting legally married and by mentally learning to how handle that situation and deal with her orbiters and social media in a realistic way (ie – not cutting them out of her life which won't happen), so that you have the best odds."

Why is that controversial? Bad feels? The same bad feels a blue pill guy gets when he realizes girls won't unconditionally love him? We tell THAT guy how it really works and give him a plan to deal with reality, but on THIS topic we keep guys in the dark?

@Yollo Comanche
"So how’s anyone supposed to make friends in all this shit? Do guys just pass broads around? How do I adapt AND get a shot at making the bitch look stupid?"

That's what I thought I was opening the topic up for discussion with in my original post but apparently it's more important to just argue with me and clutch onto the dream that monoLTRs still exist with no real evidence and lots of counter-evidence.


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 1:48 pm
Original Link

@Klem
“For me, yareally just explains how the dynamics changed in 2016, and if you have a monoLTR nowadays, you have to be aware of it. You can still choose to have one of course, but just be aware of the risks.”

This. Why is warning guys that things have changed and they have to keep their shit tighter or consider alternative approaches/lifestyles entirely if they don’t think they can guarantee she won’t have an unhaaappy day in her life in this current culture where she’s unhappy when you take away her iphone for a few hours, controversial?

How is this any different than saying “hey uhh just so you know, that area of the city you’re considering moving to, it used to be pretty nice, but now it’s a ghetto with massively high crime statistics and you have a REAL good chance of getting robbed or shot there” so guys can decide “maybe I should consider an alternate plan instead of moving there”? While you guys are going “DUDE, JUST DISARM THE GUN, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, I DISARMED A NERF GUN ONCE, GO AHEAD AND MOVE THERE MAN IT’LL BE FINE”?? lol

“Ultimately, it all depends on what you want out of life, that’s why I agree with Scray that BD’s Alpha 2.0 stuff is the best road map we currently have.”

Agreed, it would be nice to discuss it with the monogamy/marriage/commitment/parenting crowd to get their perspective and honest opinions on risks/tricky spots (of course by sheer fluke we have all the greatest parents in the world here with perfect children who’ve been zero trouble to parent and are all flawless specimen NAWALTS and Chads), but apparently anything that deviates from traditional legal marriage is scandalous Bad-Think.

“BD is not telling everyone to not have monoLTR, just that if your goal in life is to maximise HAPPINESS and minimize DRAMA, then monoLTR are going to prevent you from reaching your goal.”

Exactly. If you know all the risks and still want to gamble and try a legal marriage, cool, but it would be nice if we could offer guys an alternative to “bet your entire life on this spin landing on 69 Red”. Blackdragon’s got some ideas, Andy threw some in, I threw some in…for guys who are so concerned about making sure guys settle down into long term relationships to raise kids in stable mother/father households, they sure are hesitant to join a discussion where their experience is actually relevant and we might be able to apply parts of it while accounting for the changing societal dynamics out there.

@Sentient
“doesn’t the sluttiest bar slut display self control when she tells you she has to go to the bathroom?”

Her friends usually drag her away. Think about why it is that her FRIENDS have to drag her away instead of her.

“More likely is a probability not a certainty… and it’s not immediate.”

So you agree it’s more likely. ie – the odds are less in your favor. You can just say it instead of dancing around it.

“well it’s not what I’ve said… so there is that.”

Again how is it different from what you said aside from the actual words used? In what way is your advice NOT that?

“If you are going to be in a LTR you will need to manage hypergamy, which is what i’ve said. You get at least 6-8 of those 24 hours off for sleep as a starter…”

Then you agree to make a monoLTR work you will need to constantly work on keeping your value above other men? In an age when women have access to astronomically more and higher-value men at their fingertips? Again how is that different from “just stay alpha bro, every hour you’re around her for the rest of your life”?

“Some reasons… well there is opportunity for one…”

Again in this current tech climate, she has unfathomable opportunity.

“Wife and I met a movie star recently. Handsome guy 6 foot tall, single. she was excited to meet him, we had a nice little chat the three of us. She and I went home together and she did not fuck him in the bathroom…”

Cool. Do you think guys will be there for every conversation their monoLTR they’re legally tied to will have with her 500,000 orbiters online in 2016? Is that realistic to you?

“As a side note, these are all regular things I engage in… reframe… what you feel she feels… strongest frame wins…”

Is your wife a <25yo 7+/10 raised with a smartphone and Instagram and Tinder in her hand at 16? Like Blaximus found out, in 2016 the attempts to do these things to her have become labelled "controlling" "abusive" "demanding" etc

"Ask him how many girls turned him down too."

Irrelevant. We can agree that there's no guarantee a legal marriage contract or monogamous agreement means she won't fuck him.

"But why don’t you ask James Franco how his FB tagging a 17YO HS girl went? Or better yet ask her boyfriend."

Sure, and how did you see her texts exactly? Did you hack her phone? Or did she post them all over her social media for attention and validation? And James' game was shitty which she figured out by interacting with him, which is exactly what I said happens. But she accepted his first texts because she didn't KNOW his game was lame.

"Actually their hindbrains do know the difference between a real life man in front of them and a screen."

Why do girls like Instagram and whoring for attention on social media? Those aren't "real life men in front of them".

The point is that in this day and age, just like that YouTube guy with the hot weather girl girlfriend, a high-value guy she would never have access to normally, can swoop in and fly her away on an adventure that her average husband can't provide her.

"They may interact with a screen, they may want to fuck a screen, but they know they can’t get pregnant from a screen."

Then why does the Alpha Widow dynamic happen? She knows she can't fuck her alpha and he's not there and she can't get pregnant from him. So why can she marry some other guy but still be fantasizing about that alpha and drop her guy for him when he comes back into the picture some day. It doesn't matter that he's not there, she holds onto the CHANCE.

"Wait are you liking her Igram posts? But agreed, none of her fanboys are fucking her… but Riley still appears to be…"

No idea, I care less about her love life than girls in real life lol But why isn't she ditching us for her boyfriend? She's not going to get pregnant here.

"Assuming you want to replace her?"

Again, dodging the question.

"Also marriage today is just as easy for a man to get out of as a woman"

lol REALLY. Boy do I know a lot of forums that would love to hear you tell them all about that lol

"Also hamper does not mean make impossible."

No but it means the odds are less in their favor, which is the point. Let's find a better system.

"How do you like those apples?"

Do you think "It's me Yes or no?" is good game or weak game? All you've done is proven that a girl will accept interactions with seemingly high-value men until she interacts with them and decides they're low-value and rejects them…and then will attention whore for fame and validation.


YaReally
on August 31st, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Original Link

@Sentient
If that chick has all this magic self control, why did she accept ANY invite/message/interaction from Franco at ALL?

Because he projects high-value from afar and she instinctively HAS to find out if he’s actually high-value or not. He failed her tests so she didn’t cheat.

If she has all this self control, she wouldn’t have even opened his message or texted him back. But her hindbrain HAS to find out if Franco is going to be high-value like he’s supposed to be, incase she should trade up.

Thanks for proving my point lol


YaReally
on September 1st, 2016 at 6:44 am
Original Link

@othergrain
“And that goes double for if you enter the relationship understanding that it could be temporary so there’s less shock, butthurt, and anger when the blow falls.”

Exact same reason you handle a LSNFTE the same way, or any break up really. With those situations, the stakes are only ” maybe getting to fuck her again”, with marriage (or a LTR with kids), the stakes are “alimony, house, child support, custody, etc.””

This is what I’m trying to get across. Instead of telling guys “ehh, trust me, an old guy who’s not legal-contract-marrying mono-LTRing 2016 girls, legal-contract-married monogamy can still work, even though there’s tons of evidence showing that that might not be the case anymore (if not now then in the next 5-10 years as this shit increases)”, why not tell guys a more realistic message, like “hey, go into an LTR expecting it to last 10 years at the most…if it lasts longer, cool, but prepare from day 1 as IF she’s going to walk to go explore other options at 10 years so you don’t get blindsided or legally raped and you can mentally prep for her to go find out that other options aren’t as good as you are, or possibly lose her to other options.”

Under that HONEST assessment of 2016 and HONEST warning, having a kid isn’t a BAD idea, as long as you expect that you may have to have a custody battle for him (but because you’ve been properly warned you can prepare evidence that you’re a better parent to help make sure you don’t lose custody of your kid)…but getting legally married IS a bad idea because you’re making it more difficult for you to separate when that time likely comes. Even if she strays for a few months to go on a few shitty Tinder dates and comes back, maybe that’s all she needs to realize how good she has it. Maybe we should be teaching guys to expect her to NEED to do that, to TEACH her brain that those guys are full of shit. And maybe you will or won’t take her back, depending on how you feel about the situation.

But like, why not teach guys that this is a VERY high possibility that it’ll happen with these 2016 girls and, just like you might have to let your kid fall off their bike, you might have to accept that you have to let her realize that these other guys suck.

Hell, what about INSTIGATING a breakup around the 5 year mark with her? There’s a tactic. Purposely pick a fight and dump her and leave her for 6 months to go try dating other guys and then tell her you miss her in your life and want her back. Maybe THAT’S a fucking plan, how about we discuss what kind of reprocussions/dangers would be involved in that? Tyler used to pick fights and dump his girlfriends before travelling so that they’d be too busy focusing on how to get him back to go fuck other guys. If you dump her after she’s lost attraction, she doesn’t care, but if you dump her before she’s lost it, she feels loss, so maybe there’s a point in an LTR after the NRE phase but before having kids (or maybe AFTER having kids, when the kid is too young to pick up any damage from it, like sometime in the first 5 years after its born, bail for a few months, it won’t remember shit and she’ll see what life without you is like).

Is that crazy? I don’t know, but the current system is clearly not working well, I’m just trying to get a dicussion going.

There are SO MANY other options out there besides legal marriage and guys thinking they’re signing up for monogamy when the girls are racking up orbiters on their social media making it a pLTR in her favor.

@Blaximus
“but Ya brings up the same point I was thinking – Girls don’t even think it is worth lying about when asked about social media, unless you’re asking with other intentions – Dating/hooking up.”

This. Everyone here can do this experiment a thousand times and the trend will be exactly the same as it was with Blaximus’ experiment. That’s the world we live in now.

“a woman’s programming will still be responsive to good old, strong. masculinity and hardcore Game/Pua combination”

I agree too, I’ve never said otherwise. But that “good old, strong masculinity” is being demonized now. Trying to keep her away from orbiters is now controlling, abusive, cutting her off from her support network and friends and family abusive behavior, etc whereas before it was keeping her from ruining her own reputation and approved of because the man of the house knew best.

And people didn’t meddle as easily back then. It’s not even whether your girl responds to it…her 50,000 instagram/facebook followers will all throw their own nosey meddling and perspectives into your shit and project their own damage onto the situation. In the past you just had to worry about her close social circle and family mainly. Now it’s some fat mohawked feminist sending her abuse charts and telling her how this is just like her own abusive relationship and her friend DIED in one and this is the first step and you need to get out, and 50 other girls backing her up on it etc

Women respond to a man’s frame, but women also ping off their environment for how to feel. If 2 women are telling her you’re shit, she’ll ignore them. If 5 women are telling her you’re shit, she’ll probably ignore them. If 50 women are telling her you’re shit…hard to say. Preselection works both ways and if women see you as a guy that enough other women think is low-value, you’re gambling. In the past you dealt with maybe a mother-in-law or sister-in-law and a friend of hers who disliked you. Now she can be getting the opinion of literal hundreds that dislike you.

Does that mean she’s guaranteed to lose attraction? No, but if I gave you these odds in ANY business deal or casino game etc you would be like “lol fuck THAT”

“How in the world can we get them in the right mindspace to be cooperative with our objectives if things have disintegrated to the point of rendering them ALL as mean, evil, untrustworthy, money hungry divorce rapists?”

What I’d LIKE to see is guys acknowledge that “okay, yes, the landscape HAS changed and this legal marriage monogamy might be an unwinnable game now (or at least so heavily stacked against you that you’re playing russian roulette with your life)”, so that we can start coming up with alternative ideas so that guys don’t STAY in the angry “women are all untrustworthy bitches” stage.

The reason guys STAY in that anger stage is because they don’t have a solution yet. They just see the old system isn’t working and have no idea how to make shit work so they stay angry.

If I take your dinner away saying it’s got too much sugar in it and this is for your own good, you’re going to be frustrated because you’re hungry and I’ve taken away the solution you had for that.

But if I took your dinner away and then handed you an ALTERNATIVE dinner that was healthier and tasted great, you’d be like “oh hey, this isn’t so bad actually” and let go of that anger.

Right now we have guys telling guys “keep eating junk food even though every stat on the board shows that it’s INCREASINGLY killing guys and the trends are getting worse, but don’t worry, YOU’LL be the unicorn exception to the trends, bank on THAT, 95% of men!”

I’m just here saying “ok look, guys CAN’T eat junk food anymore, that shit is OVER with. But they’re gonna be hungry and angry if we don’t give them an alternative, so let’s start looking at all the ingredients we have that we know are healthy and start brainstorming an alternate meal plan for them that tastes good and allows them to get what they need (kids raised the majority of their lives in a stable 2 parent household), so we can offer them a better meal plan and get them out of the anger/frustration stage”

@Colbert
“I’ve been reading your archived material more lately. Very helpful stuff. I didn’t realize when I first came across this website that I would be working on a bachelor’s degree in manhood studies – lol.”

lol down the rabbit hole you go like the rest of us. Hope it helps!

@SJF
“Who the fuck wants to play the averages? Who the fuck wants no risk in their reward. Who the hell wants to settle for a less than excellent woman with radiance in a STR or a LTR? Only less than masterful men.”

1) This is just shaming language and you trying to define masculinity for other men. Might as well tell guys to “man up” and marry single moms.

2) I’m cool with this, because you’re admitting that yes, this strategy DOES tilt the odds significantly against the man, to make it riskier. That’s totally cool with me, as long as men understand that this method is very heavily stacked against them. If they want to walk that tightrope, cool, that’s fine, they understand the risks. What I don’t like is telling men “it’s fine, nothing has changed, it’s just like the old days that have worked for millions of years” where guys are lured into a false sense of security that they’re not entering a significantly more risky deal than in the past.

“So now the collective commenters’ LTR is up to 40 years with a wife that is 70 years old? And how wrinkly is/are our wives (the OMG’s) pussies getting in your estimation YaReally?”

I just exaggerate those things to rile you up….

“While you whine about how difficult the 25 year old pussies are getting because of social media?”

…because you drop snarky stuff like this all the time, and then tell me not to reply to you lol

“I’m officially not an advocate for marriage or monogamy any more.”

Perfect. Great! I’m happy to see that! The less we promote legal marriage and monogamy, and give men the understanding that with social media and orbiters and working in a male workplace, they’re entering pLTRs lopsided in the women’s favor at BEST, the more we can look at alternatives like teaching men to have their own pLTRs to at least balance things out, or to account for those other influences and how to deal with them (like possibly dumping her at some point to teach her what life without them is like and how shitty those other options are).

“I will however be an advocate for relationship game”

Sure, that shit rules. That’s why I don’t get why I’m getting pushback. You old farts are the ones who are like “2 parent household” this and “kids and biology reproductive pass on your genes” that, why wouldn’t you guys WANT to help the current and upcoming generation figure out a better system that ISN’T stacked against them. We could actually USE your fucking advice/experience for once to go “dumping her at the first hint of her getting bored is an interesting plan, how would that have affected MY relationship?” and offer up your own theories and we can apply red pill concepts and figure out potential new plans.

“But you are still begging for insight into relationship game.”

But instead of helping, you gotta pull out this “I’m the fucking best at relationship game look at you begging for my opinion!” ego trip shit. Okay, DON’T offer an opinion, I don’t give a shit lol I threw out a potential olive branch because you’re always crying about how I dismiss your experience as relevant and here I’m actually saying hey, here’s a topic that guys could use your experience on, but I don’t care if you don’t contribute lol

“Perhaps you are getting tired of the grind and need some hope for the future.”

lol what grind? Fucking hot girls isn’t a grind, grampa lol But I do need hope for the future, for my friends who want to settle down, all around me, who I’m watching get legally married or enter monogamous LTRs. And for the chance that in my late 40s I decide I want to settle down myself.

And just in general, the red pill communities, from PUA to MRA to TRP to Manosphere to MGTOW etc, NO ONE has a solution for “how can a guy, with a 2016 <25yo 8+/10 that comes with social media and orbiters, realistically manage to keep a stable two parent household together long enough to raise a healthy kid and have the best shot at making that last long-term while simultaneously lowering the risk as low as possible if it doesn't work out?"

I'd figure a place like this, where PUAs AND settled dudes meet, would be a good place to tackle that discussion.

"Question for YaReally: Do you really need to be your brother’s keeper? (help all guys out including the bottom 80% trying to be masters of their sexual strategy?)."

Yes. Because you sure aren't gonna do it. Your response is basically a flippant "whatever, it works for me, and MY kid is fine, so fuck everyone else". And you, Rollo, Blax, maybe even myself etc will probably be dead in under 50 years, when guys are dealing with an ENTIRELY different world and social conditioning than you grew up in. The stuff you're advising will seem as silly to them as recommending being a Nice Guy seems to us, or as silly as "asking her father for permission to court his daughter and waiting till marriage to have sex" seems to anyone now.

There's a chance to, while you guys are still alive and can offer "but what about this, have you considered this angle that we've all found happens after having a kid, how would this be accounted for in this plan" experience in the discussion, maybe come up with an alternate plan that accounts for the realities of how the societal environment is changing so that when we're all dead, there's at least a framework for future guys to build off.

Otherwise what do you think is going to happen when we're all dead? This shit isn't going to fix itself. Tech is going to make things worse and men are going to end up further cucked and in openly BB/AF arrangements etc etc because they WANT to have kids but have no idea how to do it except sign that legal noose around their neck that has them divorce-raped (which WILL start to become an actual strategy for women…divorce-rape a guy early on to fund the rest of their life till the next guy, don't worry society will condition men to think it's "manning up" to take care of your kid), etc etc

Like, it's not going to get better lol

"Do you realy want to be your sisters’ keeper? (direct info from Dr. Laura today: it is proven that social media degrades the quality of life for the user.)"

No idea, I'm talking about men and their ability to have and raise kids in a stable 2-parent household (for at least their formulative years), which we all agree (and statistics show) is something that's good for society.

"But you are still begging for insight into relationship game."
"And YaReally, please don’t dissect my post on your whine box."
"You have any direct questions on LTR game?, I’d be happy to answer them."

Ya it sounds like you'd be lol

"There is risk involved. You up for that? For the vulnerability? If not don’t have children. Don’t invest in risk tolerance if you have none. Do us a favor, don’t have children and don’t pair bond with their mother. We won’t miss you, or your offspring in the world."

See? This is the exact attitude that I'm bringing up this discussion to fight against. Because this is a selfish solipsistic attitude. "Whatever, it worked for ME, MY kid is fine, fuck everyone ELSE, just DON'T reproduce then, fuck you" lol

How about instead of that, we look at ways to make that risk significantly lower, as low as possible, so that more men are able to carry out their reproductive goals safely. Why is that controversy? "I had to risk shit, and you have to risk MORE now but whatever MAN UP BRO" What is that, like some petty "pass on the pain" mentality? "it was hard for me, so it should be hard for you too, fuck looking at alternatives that might make it easier for other men"

Cause the reality is men will FOLLOW that advice. They WILL stop reproducing. MGTOW *WILL* grow. We WILL see repeats of ghetto single mom trends and Japanese "men checking out of reproducing completely" trends etc. Think of where that will lead and the world your great-grandkids will be living in, when 90% of kids are raised in broken households by women who aren't equipped to parent and are still riding the cock carousel bringing home new temporary overnight daddies every month to influence that kid.

@Blaximus
"I am a FIRM believer in fathers having an active role with their children. I fed, burped and changed both my daughters often. I never left everything to my wife. When you do that, you cannot complain about the outcome."

Agreed. This is why I'm looking at this question. Because what's going to happen is guys are going to keep being exluded from their kids' lives as women chase their eat pray love emotions and we're going to see the exact same shit that we see in ghettos where women have a dozen baby daddies and none of them are around and the kids grow into fucking nightmares.

Their best chance is to have you in their lives influencing them (it's no guarantee, especially once they leave your constant direct influence at 18 to enter the real world and other influences, but it's the best possible odds at least) but if everything you do is now considered abuse with white knights and orbiters and feminists on social media butting into your wife's life to convince her to leave you, you're not going to be any kind of influence if she bails…which is the situation men are facing with 2016 women as you can see in the TRP threads I linked where guys are getting tossed aside by women like it's nothing these days.

Extrapolate the lack of fatherhood and male role modes over a few generations and the society your grand kids or great-grand kids will be growing up in will be FUCKED.

"Without parenting, social media will drag a kid down. But so will a whole bunch of other stuff. Life may drag them down."

Which is why I bring up: what plan can we give guys that will realistically get them to be able to parent their kid for 10+ years, in a society that's encouraging women from every angle to bail around the 10 year mark? Instead of pretending "if you just be alpha like the old days it'll all work out fine bro" which is unrealistic in this 2016 society that has way different influences than the old days did and the future which will triple-down on this shit as tech and the FI ramp up.

@Colbert
"Regarding relationships with women, the legal institution of marriage is just stupid and asinine for men these days in this current environment. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT – LOL. I don’t even see how there could be an argument on that topic to be honest. Legally it’s beyond stupid for men nowadays with all of the different social media choices for women and their runaway hypergamy. Why is this even an argument? Seriously?"

This. But apparently "BRO U GOTTA TAKE RISKS BRO LIKE I DID, WUT U WANNA BE SOME PUSSY WHO DOESNT TAKE RISKS IN LIFE FUCK YOU DONT REPRODUCE" and "TRUST ME BRO LEGAL MARRIAGE MONOGAMY CAN STILL WORK JUST LIKE THE OLD DAYS NOTHING HAS CHANGED EVEN THO I HAVENT ACTUALLY BEEN LEGALLY MARRIED TO A 2016 CHICK BUT WHATEVER SHE'LL DELETE ALL HER SOCIAL MEDIA AND ORBITERS FOR YOU LOOK AT THIS GIRL WHO DIDNT BANG A CELEBRITY WITH BAD GAME"

I think guys just really don't want to accept that monogamy past the NRE stage may officially be dead, or on its way out, or so significantly more difficult to make work in this 2016 culture/technology climate that it's no longer an acceptable option and comes with far too many risks.

It's like when guys have to let go of the madonna/whore unicorn NAWALT vision and accept that they're not going to find a madonna unicorn NAWALT.

I say why not just be realistic and accept that technology has changed things for these 2016 girls and will continue to warp them down the same path in the upcoming years, so let's just stop giving guys the false hope that they'll beat the odds and instead look at ways to increase the odds in their favor in alternative systems that accomplish the same end goals (raising healthy kids in a stable-as-possible two parent household).

How does this get pushback? lol

"Now can we all just get on to discussing relationship game dynamics married or not? You see? Married and unmarried is vastly different, which is YaReally’s WHOLE POINT. If the wife is holding all the power then you are really hamstrung to lay shit down – lol. It’s not for the faint of heart when you wife can just divorce and financially rape you on a whim because you want to be captain of the ship/man of the house and enforce rules, boundaries and respect."

This. And, when you look at the culture we live in now, she has infinitely more reason/encouragement/influence to push that button on guys. So why not just ACCEPT that and work WITHIN it by figuring out alternative plans for guys that will still get them the ability to reproduce and potentially even keep a girl around longterm against all those influences, but realistically accounts for the effect those influences have on 2016 girls instead of pretending they won't matter if you're just alpha enough for the rest of your life 24/7 bro, as if that's a realistic approach for most guys to pull off.

@Hollenhund
"All measurable recent social trends support Ya’s thesis. The marriage rate is dropping, more people are living alone, more are single, people delay marriage, young people are having less sex on average etc. Long-term monogamy is basically a luxury good that only the upper class and upper middle class (whatever that means) can indulge in, and even that’s about to change as the consequences of the lopsided college sex ratio start biting even them in the ass. There’s absolutely zero chance of some wider cultural reversal that resurrects monogamy."

This lol Like, look around. The system guys are advocating for "just be DPA and monogamy will be fine" has such a low success rate that even if a handful of guys can pull it off with 2016 girls, the VAST majority will be hanging from those nooses. So how about we brainstorm some alternative plans, as guys who understand attraction and have UBER-MASTER GURUS OF RELATIONSHIP GAME (HI SJF), and guys who generally advocate for the two parent stable household thing, and come up with plans that address reality and more guys are able to pull off instead of watching the number of men able to succeed drop lower and lower as statistics and field reports show is happening and will continue to happen.

"The reason no acceptable alternate option exists is because history has no track record of non-monogamous communities ever building a prosperous society most Western people take for granted today. Until very recently, monogamous patriarchy was the only thing the Western world has known since agriculture was invented. We as a society are completely accustomed to a world where every beta works like an ox, marries early and always plays by the accepted world. So when it starts collapsing, people are totally clueless and don’t know how to react."

The old system was great for society, I don't disagree with that at all. And I'm all about the two parent stable household to raise a kid in, on every level that's proven to be the best environment for a kid.

I'm just saying that shit is changing and teaching guys how to be better at a system that's being weeded out of existance is a losing proposition VS adapting to the new systems forming and teaching guys to work within those. That's always been the crux of PUA, we don't really try to CHANGE society, we just adapt to the system we're given and figure out how to prosper WITHIN it. When it changes, we adapt, to keep finding ways to come out on top. We don't cling to old systems just like we don't try to convince guys why VHS is a great video recording system, we teach them to use YouTube because that's where the trend is headed and we want to be ahead of the curve so that we can prosper in the new system.

Sure the basics are the same, but the culture you're executing those basics IN has changed, in a way that demonizes those basics. That's an issue, that's not going to undo itself, it's going to get worse.

"It’s because our entire society is built on the doctrine of male disposability. Even many so-called red pill men, mostly the Christian ones, believe in it. According to this idea, men have no wombs, therefore they are practially worthless, therefore they are the ones who have to take risks in life. Avoiding marriage and LTRs out of self-preservation and hedonism is seen as unmanly, because selfishness and risk avoidance isn’t to be tolerated when men do it."

This is what I meant when I was describing how SJFs "Who the fuck wants to play the averages? Who the fuck wants no risk in their reward. Who the hell wants to settle for a less than excellent woman with radiance in a STR or a LTR? Only less than masterful men." and "There is risk involved. You up for that? For the vulnerability? If not don’t have children. Don’t invest in risk tolerance if you have none. Do us a favor, don’t have children and don’t pair bond with their mother. We won’t miss you, or your offspring in the world." shit comes off.

Like, that's exactly what you're talking about. Whatever, who cares about other men, my kid's fine, I fucked my wife last night, fuck the rest of men. They can either do it the hard way, which is significantly harder than when I did it, or eat shit.

I don't agree with that attitude. I think it's better to put our minds together and figure out solutions to overcome modern setbacks, just like we did in the PUA community to figure out pickup, and teach men a better system with less risk and more chance of reward.

But the first step in that is admitting that things have changed and there are new factors to deal with, like the influence of social media and the FI. Not ducking our heads in the sand.

I think this is a PERFECTLY SOLVABLE SITUATION. I completely expect it to be possible to figure out how to consistently raise a kid in a stable 2-parent household (for at least 10 years, maybe more). But to solve the problem we have to acknowledge that there IS a problem.

"A “real man” keeps playing the game, even it’s completely stacked against him."

Ya, fuck that mentality. If we accepted that mentality we wouldn't have PUA. A real man figures out how to stack the odds in his favor.

"If betas were told about the 7-year itch, most of them would never bother to marry, and we can’t have that, because, like, who’ll work like an ox then?"

That's the funny part about this to me. The 7-year itch isn't even a red pill thing, it's a common societal phrase. Everyone knows it happens, and that was BEFORE social media and full FI-running-wild eat pray love shit. And legally tying yourself to her CLEARLY doesn't guarantee the 7-year itch won't happen just from how many marriages hit that stage, and the advice we give to guys to fix their marriage is to employ dread game which is the ability to walk away, the opposite of legally tying yourself to her (in fact half the legal guys say you just have to put on a show and make her feel like you aren't afraid to walk away…well how about not tying yourself legally to her so that you really AREN'T afraid to walk away instead? Isn't that easier?)

Meanwhile if you're NOT legally married, maybe the dread of you having an easier time walking away will help prevent the 7-year itch. Maybe sending her on a couple lame Tinder dates will help prevent it. Maybe dumping her at the 5 year mark and going full ghost mode on her for a few months so she really appreciates you and what she had with you, will help prevent it. Maybe having girls on the side that can replace her will help prevent it. Maybe a million other things would be better than the path guys are currently being sent down which is either "follow the traditional route" or "don't follow the traditional route but uhhh, just wing it I guess, we don't have any alternatives for you".

@Yollo Comanche
"So sex and fulfilling relationships are for people on the upper 20% only? I suppose you don’t have to be happy to find some fat bitch to impregnate. But I don’t want to, so I appreciate YaReally’s idealism."

lol dat solipsism like I say. "I'm fine and my kids are fine so who cares about everyone else?" I do, because years ago when I was an AFC chode that would have guaranteed ended up a classic deadbedroom divorce-rape case, some idealistic benevolently helpful guys on an underground PUA forum gave a shit about the bottom 80% of men when they didn't have to and saved my ass. I'm just paying it forward even if other guys think it's a waste of time because they're getting their dick sucked so who cares.

@benfromtexas
"I just got time to read this post."

btw I brought this subject in this thread because the article was ABOUT commitment/relationships. Like, I figured of all places this would be a good place to have a realistic discussion about monogamy and commitment and alternatives and shit. This isn't a derail from the topic, it's an evolution of it.

"@YaReally mentioned the Kobayashi Maru for the situation men face now. I’m stealing that man, because it’s the best way to snap my Blue Pill friends from their prison. All nerds know of the impossible Star Fleet Academy mission. Thanks!"

lol Kirk figured out how to beat what was supposed to be an unwinnable situation, just like PUAs did. I think it's a good analogy for what we do.

@DisgruntledEarthling
"Got to thank yareally and blackdragon for this. This shit works."

Pops dude, solid handling of the "how many other women are you seeing" shit-test.


YaReally
on September 1st, 2016 at 7:46 am
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“Sometimes people ACTUALLY FEEL like being monogamous. I know some people like that. They should be monogamous. I don’t see why anyone else should try to fit themselves to that mold though.”

Sure they should. Absolutely. They should just understand how monogamy stacks the deck against them (as I cover in my pLTR breakdown of why monogamy is broken in 2014, covering stuff like lack of dread, less reason for the guy to keep his charisma up, harder to keep an abundant “I can walk away from this girl if I’m not enjoying the relationship anymore” mindset, etc) and how LEGAL CONTRACT monogamy multiplies that 10-fold.

But if they’re still up for it, and are cool with the high probability of it ending at some point after the NRE stage when the girl gets bored and wants to explore other options if she’s a smokin young hottie, cool. Have fun! Enjoy! I sincerely wish their informed selves the best!

“Trying desperately to be faithful to a boyfriend of a few months but banging me every few weeks when the rationalizations catch up to her….it’s tying her up in knots and I think she’d be better off if she could just knock off the charade that she wants to be monogamous currently.”

This is most of the dudes my age in their LTRs, cheating on the side. If you’re cheating anyway, or she’s cheating anyway, or at some point in the next 40 years you guys are very likely going to end up cheating based on the trends we’re seeing and what we see infield and all around us, why not just admit the system is broken or on its way to being fully broken as technology and the FI ramp up and start figuring out how to reshape it in a way where the odds are more in favor of it working and in a way where it’s less damaging to the man if it doesn’t work out.


The Red Pill Monthly – Frame

Original Link

via Rational Male

YaReally
on August 18th, 2016 at 11:48 am
Original Link

Look at the quality of guys this ugly chick has in her Matches. These are guys who’ve already at some point swiped Right on her and/or have messaged her etc. LOOK AT THESE GUYS lol

And these two are just making fun of half of them. Like, she’s “too good” for these guys. One’s a doctor, one’s got pics of him doing handstands on the great wall of china and shit doing all that stuff everyone tells guys to do (go climb a mountain, be a CEO, pussy will fall from the sky!!) and that guy is messaging this ugly chick.

And look at the guys on Tinder in general, like, they’re not all these ugly chodey nerds because Tinder is so mainstream and cold approach is “scary” even to the rich CEOs who see some girl at a restaurant when they get lunch but they can’t say hi to her.

“Could you date a guy who wears tanktops in public?” “ehh I dunno.” And normal guys are surprised that girls are entitled and they aren’t getting matches on Tinder or Tinder girls aren’t actually meeting up with them?

This woman was never supposed to have access to this kind of mate selection. Before technology connected the world, she was supposed to have access to a handful of guys in her town and social circles to choose from and her Hypergamy could decide “ya, Bob with the accounting job is a pretty good catch…sure I like that rockstar but he lives in another world from me so I’ll just have his poster on my wall but otherwise be fairly happy with Bob”. Now that rockstar can Like her Instagram pic making her think she has a line of communication to GET him, and she has access to ENDLESS guys on Tinder who LOOK great in their pics, so many guys that she can reject like 90% of them because that rich CEO with the 6-pack abs who travels the world took a pic where he didn’t look quite cool enough for this ugly chick lol

Ditch Tinder. Don’t try to “figure out how to beat it”. When Tinder was new I cleaned up on that shit, tons of matches, lots converting to lays, and it was full of hot girls…I remember I’d swipe through 10 fuckable girls before I’d find one ugly girl. Now I’m lucky to get a match let alone any kind of decent match, let ALONE turn that into an actual meetup, and it’s like 30 ugly girls before anything remotely fuckable appears. My account has been auto-hidden by Tinder because I haven’t even opened the app in so long because it’s too depressing to see the uggos lol

Tinder is now primarily used by average to ugly girls, choosing guys based purely on their looks (because Tinder removes pretty much everything else but looks and a minor handful of subcomms that come across in photos) for instant-sex in the moment (I’ve had a number of girls who are just instantly DTF but I’m busy and can’t that night and they just move onto the next guy and I never hear from them again, one chick flat out told me “I’ll find someone else then” lol), or to rack up orbiters and string them along for self-amusement and keep them around for when they decide to get off the carousel.

Cold approach instead. Society is going to get more and more socially stunted as technology advances…a guy with cold approach skills opening her in the middle of her mundane daily routine or smoothly approaching her in a bar and taking her on an adventure is going to feel like stumbling across a mythical unicorn to girls in the next 20 years.


YaReally
on August 18th, 2016 at 12:04 pm
Original Link

Instagram model VS Average girl on Tinder:

This is in 24 hours (imagine a girl who’s had an account on there for a year or two) and if you pause it you can see the quality of guys the average girl is getting, half of them look like TRP members lol And that girl’s pics are her best MySpace angles, he links the girl’s Instagram of what she actually looks like in the description.

Ditch Tinder. Spend the time you would have spent making a profile and swiping, on going out and talking to some girls.


Trust Issues

Original Link

via Rational Male

YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 2:23 am
Original Link

@SJF
“Furthermore, that old pristine asshole appendage that was my old cookie on another computer was a masculine appendage of pushing back at guys like YaReally (who now that admits that I drove him crazy, I can back off of with my only disagreeing with his 2% of anything he has ever said). I love YaReally as an Icon. I don’t disagree with 98% of his writings here. The charge of mis-appropriating stances is a psychological “projection”. In other words you have mis-represented me as much. Funnily, I have experience the 98% Iconic, 2% bull-shit Archetype a few times before in the last 15 years. They are great men. I hope to keep them that way and on topic.”

“Married Red Pill Game is not an affront to Single Man PUA Game. It is complementary.”

The reality is it doesn’t exist. It’s all the same thing. What you’ve decided to do is, after I pointed out that your experience as an old guy legally married under an older system of marriage to an old woman raised in an old culture doesn’t have as much relevance to guys in 2016 was, instead of humbly accepting that “ya, that’s true, things have changed and my experiences may not all be relevant to men these days” like Blaximus, because Blaximus doesn’t have his head up his ass, was quadruple down on your “I DON’T WANNA BE LEFT OUT!! I’M STILL RELEVANT!!” ego.

Because of that you’ve now created multiple new game categories and labels for you to be the “Master” of. Now you go on about Relationship Game, Single Guy PUA Game, Married Red Pill game, a Third Set of Books, forks in the road, Alpha White Knights, your new buzzword relabelling you’ve come up to make yourself feel special this week is “alpha with reserves” and every time you refer to yourself it’s all about what a badass alpha you are, nothing you ever do is wrong, everything was a planned strategy, even when you brutally embarass yourself in the forum wasting everyone’s time being an asshole suddenly it’s “Jokes on you guys I was just PRETENDING to be retarded as part of a tribal experiment for a week where I act like an asshole, I think you can all see now that I’ve clearly demonstrated the nuances of what an amazing tribal leader I am, dance for me puppets, dance!!”

You keep dropping in stuff like “it’s complementary” at the end of your little rants in an attempt to keep anyone from calling you out on just making shit up and relabelling shit under the “SJF is a special snowflake” label but it’s blatantly clear what you’re doing.

This is literally the EXACT same shit guys like Krauser or Roosh do to sell their products and guru-ize themselves: repackage and rename a bunch of already explained shit, while throwing in little contradictory nuances hinting that you’ve discovered some special super snowflake secrets that no one else understands, in a way that tries to make themselves sound like the Master of some new system they’ve uncovered. It’s retarded when they do it but at least they have an audience of followers and are selling a product so it’s understandable, it’s 10x as retarded if you aren’t actually selling anything and are just a commenter on a message board trying to convince random people you’re a wise old man who’s “mastered” life hoping that you can dupe some newbies who don’t know better into viewing you as some sort of guru.

You are muddying the waters of the knowledge-base with contradictions and nuances that aren’t there and changing labels on already established concepts, in an attempt to feel relevant, and that will ultimately make it harder for men to understand Red Pill concepts.

Have you wondered why no one has asked you to explain your incredible SJF Relationship Game to them despite you mentioning it in every fucking post? Have you wondered why every time you throw in a sperg-level-detail little rant about the peach-steak dinner your old wife who didn’t even fuck you a few years ago (and who’s vagina has no wrinkles at age 60+ of course because if you master SJF Relationship Game that you’ve invented in the last 1.5 years, the laws of nature just stop working completely…we can all type “old woman pussy” into a porn search and see how likely it is that you have the unicron dude lol) cooked for you, no one jumps in to give you props or ask “wow man, how did you DO that?? How can I be like you, SJF??”? Have you wondered why no one has asked when you’re going to write this mystical third set of books (that only YOU are aware exists) for us all to learn from? Have you wondered why NO ONE has ever asked “What ARE all the SJF Maxims??” when you dangle your little “welcome to a new SJF Maxim” bait in your posts?

It’s because everyone else can (I assume) see what you’re doing with your SJF Special Snowflake Game but are too nice to call it out because it looks like this is the only place in your life where other men will occasionally listen to you talk lol

You said it yourself at the end: “Game is universal across all relationship platforms.” You can’t even keep your own contradictions straight, which is common when guys just make shit up or pick and choose to create their own system. ’cause the next sentence is always “but my special SJF RELATIONSHIP GAME is a highly nuanced specialized area that I am the master of, it’s different from that SINGLE GUY PUA GAME stuff!” lol And your reply to this will probably be some fortune cookie sounding bullshit about how your massive contradictions are all just a test for the tribe to demonstrate your mastery and dominance and YaReally has fallen right into your brilliant trap with this reply and bla bla more retarded LARPing shit lol

Attraction is Attraction. Keeping a fuckbuddy attracted longterm is the exact same as keeping a wife attracted. When you can’t easily leave the relationship (for whatever reason) it’s harder to maintain Alpha/Lover frames, and a legal wife/kids/moving in/etc convert into huge chains preventing a guy from easily leaving the relationship…but it’s the exact same thing as being in a situation with any type of relationship where you can’t easily walk away for whatever the reason happens to be. It’s all the SAME THING despite your attempts to try to divide shit up and muddy the waters to try to get people to view you as Yoda.

But please tell us more about this “Third Set of Books” you’ve discovered in this last 1.5 years of your wife actually touching your dick. Please list all the SJF Maxims so we can learn from your wisdom. Teach us foolish mortals your benevolent wisdom! We’re sitting here reading this chump Rollo go on about the SECOND set of books, pffft, like the guy has any idea what he’s talking about compared to a wise Master of life like yourself. He’s a whole set of books behind!! His wife doesn’t even trust him with her life after 20 years!! I bet YOUR wife (with her magical wrinkleless vagina) trusts you 24/7 because you are an alpha master guru tribal leader of SJF(TM)(R)(C) Relationship Game (TM)(R)(C)(all rights reserved). Please SJF, educate us all on this third set of books that your wisdom has created out of thin air! I know I’d sure like to hear it for the lols

@Softek
“I think YaReally’s problem with MGTOW guys are the one’s that “dabble” with women w/out bothering to learn game (thus the analogy of kids playing with sticks of dynamite).”

Yup. I’m cool with a guy who doesn’t know how to handle dogs and who doesn’t want to learn how to handle a dog, not owning a dog. Whether he’s “being a man” or “pussying out” or “rage quitting” or whatever I don’t really care, guys can do whatever they want and there are cases where I wouldn’t blame a guy for wanting to stay away from dogs entirely.

But if you’re going to go MGTOW and shit on PUA and refuse to learn how to handle dogs from the guys who’ve laid it out step by step for you to learn from and warn other guys not to learn how to handle dogs, and then you’re going to go “oh but I still let dogs into my house now and then, I was seeing a dog for a few months a while back, but, you know, I just do it on MY terms”, then you are probably going to get bit hard because you have no idea what you’re doing.

I don’t want them to learn how to make their relationship WORK, they can learn that shit if they want, what I want them to learn is how to PROTECT THEMSELVES from shit like False Rape Accusations when they do their spergy MGTOW “the second she bugs me I just delete her from my life” shit that sounds super badass alpha but in 2016 is likely to trigger Buyer’s Remorse, social media slander, and land them an FRA or worse. And to learn how to avoid getting one-itis, the thing that would sabotage their MGTOW lifestyle when they throw half their principles out the window (“MGTOWs are just one blowjob away from leaving MGTOW” or whatever the quote is) They should be learning the parts of PUA that are relevant to keeping their MGTOW lifestyle drama-free and on their terms and that help them avoid catching too many feels for a unicorn so they can stay rational/logical about their decisions instead of bailing on their lifestyle and then entering a situations they’re wholly unprepared to manage, followed by getting burned AGAIN, and then coming BACK to MGTOW with a new round of “women are evil bitches” because the dog they fell for and tried owning while refusing to accept any training bit their face off.


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 4:41 am
Original Link

@SJF
“Is exactly what I discovered and have.”

This is what we’ve been teaching since the beginning and what we teach in “SINGLE GUY PUA GAME”.

“Married red pill game does exist. It’s not for the faint of heart and it is not merely ego-justification on my part.”

Okay so tell us what works in marriage that doesn’t work in LTRs, fuckbuddies, etc Tell us exactly what rules apply to marriages that don’t also apply to normal LTRs. Let’s hear it, Gandalf. Tell us all about these “not for the faint of heart” mystical voodoo things you see that us mere mortals not running “SJF RELATIONSHIP GAME(TM)” are unaware of.

@Colbert
“So are you saying that learning game i.e.; dread, boundary setting, triggering competition anxiety, being your own mental point of origin and saying “no”, etc. should not be separated from PUA”

That stuff *IS* PUA. It’s like guys have just briefly skimmed a few pickup videos and gone “oh this just applies to getting bar pussy to put out in one night stands, we’re talking about more in-depth stuff like relationships” ’cause they haven’t actually looked at Mystery Method in-depth and realized that all the shit listed above is the same shit Mystery was talking about.

Dread = preselection, jealousy plotlines, abundance mentality, the ability to walk away, multiple girls on the go, the ability to Soft Next, Hard Next, freezeout, etc

Boundary setting = Soft Next, Hard Next, freezeouts, negs, the ability to walk away, laying down discipline/punishment for bad behavior, etc

Triggering competition anxiety = preselection, jealousy plotlines, merging sets, abundance mentality, the ability to walk away, multiple girls on the go, etc

Being your own mental point of origin = learning about yourself and embracing your wants/needs/desires instead of being ashamed of them, finding goals and life purposes outside of women, having relationships on your terms and enforcing that by being able to walk away or use Nexts, etc

Saying “no” = this is PUA 101 right here

This is why I’m giving SJF shit. Everyone wants to separate all this shit and make it overly complicated so they can all stamp their personal brand/name all over it when all of this Married Red Pill Game and Relationship Game and LTR Game and bla bla it’s all the same thing. The only difference is that various types of relationships can require more or less “ability to walk away” which puts you more into a Provider/Beta frame and you have to be aware of that so you can make sure not to let your Lover/Alpha frame get weak, to balance it out. That’s it. A guy who’s single with a harem of casual fuckbuddies has all the ability in the world to walk away, so he doesn’t have to do as much to enforce it. A guy who’s legally married with kids and living with his wife has voluntarily removed almost all of his ability to walk away, so he has to make sure to keep the Lover/Alpha shit going. But the stuff the second guy DOES is the EXACT SAME SHIT the first guy does. It’s not some magical special snowflake “different” game. It’s the same shit.

It’s like if you want to walk down the street, that involves “moving from point A to point B”. If you decide to tie your legs together, walking down the street will be more difficult and to get to the end of the street in the same time you’ll have to put more work into “moving from point A to point B”. But you’re not running some special “legs tied together relocation game”, you’re just “moving from point A to point B” like the other guy and follow the exact same principles (“using your muscles to push off the ground to move yourself forward”).

This shit makes it way overcomplicated and you get all these guys who are like “Oh which type of game should I learn?? I learned some PUA but now I better learn SJF MAGICAL RELATIONSHIP RED PILL MARRIAGE GAME(TM) and it’s like no, just learn the fucking basics and REALLY UNDERSTAND THEM because everything in all types of relationships are based around these core fundamental principles. Depending on your relationship you may have to actively go out of your way to flirt with a waitress to make sure you get preselection in because you’ve chosen to settle down into a relationship and lifestyle where you aren’t around women much, but that’s the SAME PRINCIPLE as a single guy using preselection to trigger the exact same desire/dread in his girls. Learn PUA and you’ve learned it all.

The 2 things not covered by PUA, which is what I always credit Rollo for, are: 1) fully understanding all the nuances of Hypergamy (but even then as you can see in that Mystery Method quote about running mixed/group sets, we already understood the general idea of it and how to use it), and 2) solipsism (which doesn’t have a lot of relevance in the actual execution of game principles, but it’s a huge clarifier in understanding WHY women think/act/behave in the way they do).

But “dread” game isn’t some special magical Red Pill Marriage shit. It’s just a combination of techniques/principles already taught way back in Mystery Method. It’s the exact same shit you do with normal girls, except that in a marriage you’re legally/socially/paternally tied to your situation so you have to make more of an effort to execute those techniques/principles since you’ve tied your legs together. The principles themselves are the exact same shit though. It’s all just “PUA”. Separating it is just muddying the waters.

“for guys who are already in an established LTR or marriage then it’s more “game” and less PUA that they need to focus more on”

It’s the exact same thing. There’s no “game” concept/technique that isn’t based in PUA shit lol

“It sounds like there is a lot of overlapping crossover between game and PUA though, so this is where I sometimes get things mixed up.”

This is EXACTLY what I’m talking about. Muddying the waters confuses new guys because it seems like there’s crossovers and contradictions and guys are trying to stamp their personal brand all over shit so we have Krauser with his super special Daygame he’s mastered convincing guys that Nightgame is totally different and don’t look at that Nightgame shit by those scamming PUAs and guys like SJF telling guys to take that fork in the road and get married and then just apply the super special SJF Married Game he’s mastered and Roosh in another corner convincing his followers that he has super special Neomasculinity game and all those PUAs are frauds and bla bla bla

It does a disservice to guys who are trying to figure out what the fuck is going on and how to fix their lives.

The MMSL MAP is great, but it’s literally just applying PUA principles to a marriage. It’s giving guys a set of steps to follow that will directly/indirectly trigger dread, preselection, not making the girl the focus of your world, Soft Nexting, freezing out, etc But if you just learn and understand PUA, then you have that shit down. It’s not some special new secret set of techniques. It’s the shit you learn if you just study the material that’s been out there for 15+ years lol

“are there PUA guys that JUST learned PUA but not much else in terms of other general RP concepts including many aspects of game”

The guy you’re describing would be a guy who hasn’t actually studied PUA in-depth. He’d be like a dabbler that just learned enough to get laid and then stopped reading/studying/practicing.

It’s like “are there MMA guys that JUST learned how to throw a punch but not much else in terms of other fighting concepts including many aspects of fighting?” Yes, there are, but MMA itself isn’t what’s lacking. It’s that student choosing to only learn the bare minimum.

My problem with these artificial distinctions is, like you go visit the TRP forums on reddit and those guys completely think they’re doing something different from PUA. They’ll talk shit about PUA, it’s the funniest thing. Everything they’re doing is based off PUA but they have enough guys there talking shit to keep anyone from going back to stuff like MM or early Tyler Durden writing to find that out. It makes them feel special to classify PUAs as a bunch of pussy-beggars who don’t understand the whole “self-improvement” side of things like THEY do (and half their ideas are based in not understanding PUA to begin with, like their big focus on looks/money to get women there, which shows a FUNDAMENTAL lack of understanding/experience with what PUAs found infield which is why when I talk about looks and shit it’s so “controversial”, ’cause guys aren’t out there testing this shit, they’ve got their TRP dogma and are sticking to it instead of field testing like the PUA community does).

This all just fucks guys up. PUA is basically what Bruce Lee did, dismissing all the traditional fluff and fancy poses and shit and just getting down to the core of “what holds up in a fight” It’s streamlined and efficient and the principles you learn through PUA are the same principles you apply in all your relationships, that’s why everyone shits a brick when they realize understanding PUA actually improves their business relationships and personal/male/family/kids/etc relationships. PUA is the core concepts of how human psychology works.

Yes, you CAN just go learn “Married Red Pill Dread Game” but you’re just learning a chunk of PUA, you’re not learning something “different” that’s “not for the faint of heart”.

“In other words, somebody who ONLY knows PUA stuff is vulnerable to “oneitis” just as somebody who ONLY knows RP theory MGTOW stuff is also vulnerable to “oneitis”? Are my questions making any sense? ”

In PUA we teach you how to avoid one-itis (don’t see the girl more than once a week, don’t do stuff with her that isn’t having sex, have multiple girls on the go, understand that there’s no special pedestal unicorn out there, etc etc). Whether guys follow that or not varies, but the techniques and mindsets are all laid out in PUA.

“It sounds like you are saying that unless you are in a monogamous LTR/marriage that you need PUA in addition to game and RP knowledge to really protect yourself in today’s environment.”

PUA = game. The “PUA and game are different” thing is an artificial distinction made up by guys in the Manosphere/TRP to try to separate themselves as “better than” the “pussy-begging PUAs”. In a monoLTR/marriage you need the exact same things you needed as a single guy: abundance mentality, dread, preselection, giving them emotional rollercoasters like the guy in the car in Rollo’s op, etc etc etc Except that you’ve removed your ability to walk away which hampers your ability to properly Soft/Hard Next, so you have less room for error fucking up that other stuff with the handicap you’ve voluntarily taken on. The mechanics/dynamics are exactly the same.

In 2016, society has created an environment where legal marriage etc is not only tying your legs, but it’s tying your hands and blindfolding you as well, while simultaneously conditioning girls to believe that they’ll be showered with rewards and attention and validation for pushing you over. You’re still “moving from point A to point B”, but doing so has been made significantly more difficult in 2016. The same principles always apply, dread game and preselection still do what they’re supposed to do, but because of the 2016 environment that tries to condition girls into bailing when they feel dread and rationalizing it away as you’re emotionally abusive and they have 500 Tinder guys with pics of themselves in front of their fancy cars lined up and Amy Schumer showing them how an ugly woman in their 40s can still land the rich doctor, you’re playing against a stacked deck and trying to execute the same shit that has always worked is tougher because social conditioning has fucked with girls heads (if not yours then her friends/family/etc)

But it’s all the same shit and all these artificial distinctions and categorizations are just giving guys bits and pieces of a system instead of teaching them what they should know in full.

Whether it’s MGTOWs refusing to learn about Buyer’s Remorse, married guys trying to figure out how to be attractive without having to make their wife feel bad feels, newbies trying to figure out how to get laid without having to leave their basement and actually talk to girls, relationship guys trying to figure out how to make their relationship work while still having one-itis, married guys trying to convince other guys to tie their legs while dabbling bits and pieces of vague feel-good philosophy resulting in guys who won’t be prepared to handle having their legs tied, etc

“I still get confused and conflate terminologies sometimes. I just want to understand things in the right context.”

That’s why I’m going on about it. This is a problem I’ve seen and everyone’s getting real comfortable making up brand new distinctions that aren’t there, overcomplicating the fundamental knowledge-base which confuses new guys and makes this stuff seem overwhelming to learn.

@Corleone
“Given that the dog came first, maybe her doubts aren’t entirely unreasonable.:-)”

lol’ed at this, didn’t notice that when I read it either.


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 6:25 am
Original Link

@newlyaloof
“EXACTLY, why you should write a book instead of constantly repeating what you say in comments scattered among dozens of posts.”

The books are already out there for anyone to read. If guys would just read them I wouldn’t have to post at all lol but guys are lazy and different Red Pill communities shame men for looking at the old writing while simultaneously making shit up to discredit its value while boosting their own writing to keep men reading their shit instead of looking at the old texts. MRAs, TRP, Manosphere, MGTOW, it’s all bits and pieces of PUA repackaged…if any of those guys would just look at the old PUA shit they’d find everything they need to know and more.

But they won’t, so here we are with me having to point out the basics that were in MM, Tyler’s early work, Blackdragon’s early stuff, etc etc over and over. Like how many guys here have ACTUALLY read Mystery Method through and through? Or watched the entire old MM seminar? Or read the Tyler Digest from start to end? Or dug out Tyler’s old mASF archive? Or read pretty much everything Blackdragon’s written? Anyone read Manhood101 through and through? Or watched the million vids I link and gone through RSDs hundreds of hours of content to watch vids I HAVEN’T linked? I’d bet not a lot of guys here have done all that shit and you guys see my name almost daily around here, promoting that shit…so if YOU guys haven’t checked out all that content why would any of these other guys in other communities do it or even know what TO look at or where TO find it, especially when everyone in their communities is shitting on all of it and telling them to disregard it and NOT look at it?

“They need a comprehensive book outlining why PUA and Red Pill is the same stuff – as you’ve covered here.”

Link ’em to any of my posts like the one above.

“I know writing a book would somehow out you because you’d have to give up personal data to collect your money, but can’t you at least trust Rollo and you guys go into a JV on writing a book?”

I’d write it for free lol But it would be a big undertaking time-wise and more importantly: I’m skeptical anyone would give enough of a shit to read it because MRAs don’t WANT to become sympathetic to PUA or learn from it, TRP’ers don’t WANT to learn from PUA, MGTOW don’t WANT to learn PUA, etc If they did, they’d be reading the old shit. But everyone is very happy in their hugboxes.

’cause the reality is Paul Elam and Dean Esmay aren’t reading Tyler Durden’s old archive of PUA posts. Sandman and Barbarossa aren’t watching a Mystery Method seminar. Roosh isn’t telling guys to check out RSD content. Krauser does nothing but shit on anyone who’s running nightgame or does daygame without following his specific super special snowflake daygame method (which is just repackaged and relabelled Mystery Method). GayLubeOil is over at TRP on reddit shitting all over PUAs so he can cash in on impressionable newbies selling this bullshit:

So really, who would read a book about how we’re all the same? Everyone LIKES having a boogie-man in the shadows to feel “better than” and what better boogie-man than the pussy-chasing fake masculinity lying manipulative scumbag PUAs who’s entire lives are focused around pedestalizing women and they don’t care about any other aspects of life or know anything but bar pussy they wouldn’t know anything about relationship game bla bla bla lol

We’re looked down on by pretty much every category of Red Pill communities despite the fact that pretty much everything everyone is teaching coming in them either comes directly from our shit or was already discovered and documented by us years before these guys stumbled into it. Name any concept anyone in any of these communities promotes and I can point you to where it was covered in Mystery Method or the old PUA forums/teachings just like I broke down “dread game” and “triggering competition anxiety” etc into basic PUA concepts we’ve taught since day one.

We don’t mind being the bottom rung though because just like the old days we care more about establishing and documenting an accurate knowledge-base than getting a pat on the back from society. ’cause that knowledge-base will outlast us all and whenever guys 50 years from now find a lack or contradiction in what other people are teaching in whatever these communities evolve into, that core knowledge-base we’re building will be there for them to stumble on and go “oh, shit, why didn’t anyone tell me THIS??”

No one HAS to listen to what I’m writing, or go read the old shit I link, or watch any of the vids I link, it doesn’t affect MY life. I could walk away from the Manosphere tomorrow and give zero fucks (and get way more work done lol) But when guys are spouting shit that’s wrong/inaccurate and doesn’t hold up infield or trying to throw all their little twists and turns onto the knowledge for the sake of trying to feel relevant, I’ll point it out because that ultimately does a disservice to men who end up confused by all the bullshit…wearing their Alpha Wolf Hoodies, asking SJF how his Married Man Relationship Game that’s not for the faint of hearts is different from Krauser’s daygame that’s totally better than any of that silly PUA stuff that teaches you how to deal with groups and AMOGs but why do guys keep taking my girls wah wah what do I do?!?!


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 6:48 am
Original Link

Half the guys here are good examples of why the artificial division fucks men over.

Rocket came in firing both guns about what a badass he was, having discovered hooker game and thinking he’s beat the system. But what happened? The exact same shit that PUA would’ve told him would happen if he hadn’t bought into the special super sekret hooker game he’s discovered or been taught and fuck all you sucker PUAs.

Culum and Scribblerg were running their sugardaddy mentor game feeling like they’re on the right track without even realizing they were missing the mark, not because they were anti-PUA but just because they weren’t directed to the appropriate resources to learn why their sugardaddy mentor stuff was a flawed approach. PUA would have taught them from day one that what they were doing wasn’t optimal desire attraction etc even if they got their dicks wet from it now and then. Learning PUA would have taught scribblerg why his internal shit was all fucked up now that he’s older and doesn’t have the same external value on display that he had when he was younger. PUA would have taught Culum that even being ON a sugardaddy site is crippling your value and putting you in a Provider frame from minute 1 and given him the tools to understand that and counter it.

Softek is still with his chick and he’s just now finally getting bored with the LTR stuff because the reward he’s getting for it isn’t as worth it as it seemed before, which is all shit PUA would have told him from day one. Walawala was sucked into a nightmare with a BPD that he had to learn all about rolodex shit and extracting himself from it and running proper soft/hard nexts and escape one-itis, which is all shit taught in PUA stuff.

Big Al is off to get married to a girl without even understanding why when all the negatives and risks are broken down in Blackdragon’s writing on monogamy. And WHEN his marriage bombs because he’s shown how unprepared he is and how little homework he’s actually done on it, he’ll come find MMSL which will just tell him the same shit he would’ve learned if he studied PUA. Junior’s problems running groups the other week is broken down in detail in MM. All the frames and pep talks and shit I give guys who are going out are just coming from guys like Mystery and Tyler and other PUAs who followed the “hit the field” requirements of being a PUA. Subcomm stuff is all broken down in detail in MM and RSD stuff. This shit is all out there for anyone to learn whenever they want and it all comes back to the basics that Mystery laid out.

When I originally started posting in the Manosphere I was going to fill my name in as just random shit with every post, that’s why my name is just a stupid “YaReally” nonsense phrase, I was going to just fill in random words with each post because I didn’t want to develop any “guru” status or anything, I just wanted the information to be out there. But it was too hard to find my own posts or questions for me doing that lol and when Lumpy made the archive it’s like okay I gotta be YaReally forever then so guys can find all my shit in one place.

That’s why I give credit to where I get stuff from and provide all these links to videos and articles and shit instead of just making YaReally’s Method(TM) and packaging a bunch of this shit up under a brand. I could make a fucking killing doing that, I’m sure. Get myself a little YaReally logo, set up a Patreon, release a few books (on paper so they can’t be pirated, gotta get my money!!), maybe lock some “if you want the REAL good content that’s NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART, THIRD BOOK MAGIC YAREALLY SYSTEM” shit behind a paywall with membership accounts…I could build the YaReally empire up and make a fortune!!

But I want guys to just go read the old shit and learn all this stuff from the original streamlined sources and just go out and start applying it for themselves infield, I don’t want to create a bunch of YaReally groupies that don’t think for themselves and masturbate over their keyboards in theory-discussions and just read my writing only, instead of all this other stuff that’s been laid out sitting right in front of them for 15+ years to look at by guys who put in way more work putting their egos on the line infield to test this shit out, than any of the big names in any of these communities shitting on their work ever will lol


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 7:21 am
Original Link

@Colbert
“Thank you for all of that, as it makes MUCH more sense to me now as I was getting way too hung up on conflicting terminologies.”

That’s exactly what my panties are in a twist over. This stuff is not as complicated as it seems when everyone is making up their own special snowflake artificial divisions and differences. That shit is just an ego stroke to try to guru-ize themselves and it fucks with guys who are new to the red pill community, in or out of a relationship, who are trying to understand what the differences between “red pill married man game” and “single guy pua game” is when I call out SJF and ask flat out “okay what are the differences?” and he dodges the question with some snark, because there ARE no differences that will hold up under analysis. Anything he thinks are “differences” are shit that’s already covered in “single guy pua game”. But he sounds a lot more mystical and wise if he alludes to some bullshit “oh there IS a difference, trust me, I’ve achieved mastery of life and the differences are NOT for the faint of heart…” where he won’t actually go into details. Just misdirection “follow the pea under the cup” bullshit to try to artificially grab at some kind of community status. Exact same shit as xsplat and King A and Roosh.

“When I first took the RP I was TRIAGED (thanks SJF for that lost boy snarky comment) into the MGTOW dungeon of darkness and all I knew about PUA was that they were “dancing monkey pussy beggars” because that’s what I had been told. I honestly knew nothing about any of this stuff – lol.”

lol ya that’s what I mean. I KNOW guys like you are getting that kind of programming from them because I look at content from all these communities for fun (this stuff is my hobby instead of playing xbox or whatever stuff other guys do) and I hear them talk shit allll the time. And in the end that keeps guys like you from discovering resources that could help you, which is a problem in my mind. That kind of thing is about guys trying to establish ideologies and followings that make them feel better about themselves and their life choices, over ACTUALLY helping men. That’s why I don’t care if a guy goes MGTOW or even gets MARRIED, as long as he’s doing it with a FULL understanding of how he’s stacking the deck against himself and how society has influenced things and the actual risks he’s entering and he makes a conscious informed decision…same with MGTOW, go ahead and avoid women as long as you know that you CAN learn to train a dog if you WANT, and if you still hang out with dogs then learn some fucking training instead of being directed AWAY from it by guys who keep getting their arm ripped off and refuse to learn to train a dog themselves.

So much ego bullshit instead of helping guys figure out what their desires/needs in life are and helping educate them on how to get those things and the risks/benefits of different apporoaches. I’ll link a video from ROOSH if it has useful information in it that’ll help guys lol

“It’s easier for me to get all of this when you put it the way you did, so thank you for taking the time to explain all of that to me.”

Happy to have helped. PUA made an indescribable difference in my life, and a lot of guys put out content like this for free that I was able to learn from, so I’m just paying it forward. It’s really sad to me to see how all these communities building their hugbox walls will hurt men when they talk about wanting to help men. Part of why I hang at TRM is that Rollo doesn’t create a hugbox…he may not be convinced on a couple nuances here and there (like in our looks debates) but overall there’s no demonization of other groups or resources here. He may point out that like, MGTOW has some problems or trends, but he won’t tell guys “DON’T LISTEN TO THAT SANDMAN BULLSHIT THAT GUY IS A FAGGOT VIRGIN LOSER” lol

Personally I hope NO ONE listens to me or believes me…I hope EVERYONE goes and reads the old stuff to prove how wrong and flawed it all is and goes out infield to prove how wrong and dumb and retarded I am. I’d be fucking ecstatic if there was a widespread trend of men going out there infield with this knowledge to “show that stupid YaReally chump” lol


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 10:16 am
Original Link

@Rollo
“Playing Devil’s advocate here YaReally, but even you have detailed how PUAs tailor (calibrate) their Game style to better suit their personalities and strengths have you not?”

lol this doesn’t make any sense. It’s not “this guy gets better results when he fails all their shit-tests and supplicates to them and walks around sad and depressed and cries on their shoulder about what a loser he is and how his life sucks”. It’s “passing a shit-test causes attraction, but one guy might pass that shit-test by being aloof/laconic, while another might agree & amplify it.” There’s a VERY big difference between the two. The techniques and concepts themselves are consistent, the way those things are displayed/executed can vary based on the guy’s personality.

“Not a day goes by that I don’t have a guy email or tweet me about how my books have opened their eyes and changed their life’s perspective about how they deal with women.”

Ya and that’s awesome. But if those guys had learned PUA, they would discover your stuff the same way I did: “hey, this guy’s really smart, he’s not a PUA but he’s figured out a bunch of the same stuff we already know, although this Hypergamy thing and Solipsism thing is really interesting and clears shit up”. That’s all my point is. When people disregard PUA or treat it as “separate” from what you’re writing about, it shows they don’t really understand what PUA is.

“You can say that’s just repackaging the ideas PUAs have been espousing for 15 years, but the psychological and behavioral principles PUA is founded on has existed long before Mystery was born. Even Mystery credits behavioral and evo psychology in the development of his “method”.”

That’s why I specified the part about it being streamlined and made efficient, aka turned into a codified form that we can teach en masse. The difference between building a car and creating a factory that can manufacture thousands of cars in the same time.

“How men come to the truth of Red Pill awareness and how they apply it in their lives (PUA) isn’t ever going to be a formulaic method for everyone.”

My point is that in an ideal world it WOULD be. We would get men studying PUA in their teens so that they could hyperfocus on it in their late teens and early 20s when they have AMPLE social opportunities around them being in schools/colleges/universities full of people who go out and want to socialize and make friends, endless social opportunities around them to take advantage of to learn this shit FAST so that they can spend the rest of their life working on all their other shit but have the “having women in their life” thing handled.

I’m happy if these guys find this kind of information through ANY means…BUT, I think they should be pointed toward the source material instead of told “bro, that’s just SINGLE BAR SLUT PUA GAME, do you wanna pick up bar sluts? You gotta learn my RED PILL RELATIONSHIP GAME(TM) that I discovered a year ago bro!” It’s nonsense and prevents them from getting a fully rounded education. They may not need to know how to AMOG a guy right NOW, but at some point they’re gonna be at an office xmas party with their wife and the rich CEO dudes from their company flirting with her in front of them. They may not need to know how to manage a group set right NOW, but at some point they’re going to be at the girl’s family dinner or out with her and her friends and winning those people over can make a dramatic difference in how she perceives his value VS tanking because he didn’t learn that “SINGLE GUY BAR SLUT DIFFERENT GAME”.

“That’s why I have always valued your participation here; I may be in a unique position in my life and career to write what I do, but I can only do observation and correlation – I rely on you and a few others to do the experimentation. It’s symbiotic for us.”

And similarily I value what you do here. But the reason I don’t really give you hassle about your writing is because you don’t contradict what holds up infield. You aren’t sitting here making Rollo’s Rules trying to tell guys that single guy game and married game is very different and “not for the faint of heart” making up bullshit divisions in shit that’s already hard for guys to figure out when they first wade in here. The things you write about can be tested infield and don’t contradict core PUA principles that have been field-tested thoroughly. That’s very different than Krauser’s “NO girl” “don’t go to bars” “don’t learn half the skillset” pain-avoidance methods or making up new terminology to put your own branding spin on it (hello Neomasculinity).

In my mind your articles and PUA support eachother and don’t contradict eachother. Neither support the idea that there’s some “not for the faint of heart” married red pill relationship SJF game that has some super seekret techniquez that some guy who’s only turned his marriage around recently has discovered. Shit’s been covered before, it doesn’t help guys to overcomplicate it. We know 2 + 2 = 4, newbies should be taught that, not have some opportunistic guru-wannabe’s going “pfft, that 2 + 2 = 4 may be true if you’re running Single PUA Bar Game, but kid if you wanna know what 2 + 2 REALLY equals, come on down this alley with me and beg me to find out…lemme show you the SJF/Krauser/Roosh/etc Patented Math System Extreme(TM) that will get you the REAL winning result, not just that bar slut shit but the things that coincidentally I’ve convinced myself I have so you can be as good as ME, I mean, I won’t TELL you about it…I’ll just allude to it, don’t you wanna find out what 2 + 2 equals kid? Just ask me a few times and I MIGHT deem you worthy of telling…but just so you know, it’s NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART.”

Fuck that shit. Post your ideas so we can see how “faint of heart” they are and rip them apart and see what parts of them are actually standing in the end. Or start your brand name and start selling your Alpha Red Pill Married Man Not For The Faint Of Heart Secret Technique Hoodies already.

@DisgruntledEarthling
“My only wish to to see a couple of you guys stop dissing each other and kiss and make up, or at least retreat to your separate corners.”

I’m not the one who keeps dragging me back into these conversations by sniping at me. I do a name search in these comment sections and when it comes up with one of these guys going on about how YaReally this and YaReally that with a bunch of mis-accusations and mis-representations of my positions and what I’ve said, I think it’s totally fair for me to respond and call that shit out. I’d be more than happy to not have to restate my positions for a thousandth time lol


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 11:55 am
Original Link

@Rollo
Yup you got it. But in what way does that play devil’s advocate to what I’m saying?


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 12:18 pm
Original Link

@Rollo
“If that’s the case then, couldn’t men be more adept at Game in various other contexts and domains?”

If you mean like, Krauser could be really good at daygame because he focuses on it, then yes. But I don’t have an issue with that, because what he’s doing IN daygame is still following the exact same principles that the rest of PUA follows. It’s not a separate system “not for the faint of heart” even though he markets it as such. He’s just taking the things we teach and apply in PUA and emphasizing parts of them while letting other parts atrophy, but he’s still working with the same techniques/concepts, he’s not doing anything “different”. A married guy isn’t doing anything “different”, he’s just focusing more on dread etc because he’s sabotaged his ability to leave which would have normally helped create that dread by default.

None of these is “different than PUA”. They’re not “PUA is this single guy pickup stuff and game is this OTHER stuff”. It’s all the same shit. It’s just PUA with some stuff focused on or left out to calibrate to the situation. You in your marriage are running the EXACT same game I’d run on an FB if I want to keep her around (you create dread through your job etc and I create dread through not committing, but we are both creating dread which is just a handful of PUA concepts lumped together), and if you stop doing those things your wife will react the EXACT same way my FBs will react.

Does that make sense? These guys pitching their shit as some “different” game are just muddying the waters.

“I agree with you completely about Athol repackaging Red Pill material to create MMSL/MAP, where he fails is watering it down to appease his wife and female readers in trying to achieve Blue Pill ideals with Red Pill awareness.”

He may be a douchebag purple pill guy, I didn’t follow him enough to find out and you know his work better than me, but what I saw of the MMSL MAP plan was solid and followed PUA principles so I’d still have a guy look at that stuff to help fix his marriage, even if we had to make a caveat for him to disregard everything else Athol’s written since.

“However, while the foundations don’t change, the context of applying Game within marriage, or for a divorced guy, or a Christian guy unwilling to do premarital sex are different. For instance, Dread works, how that’s applied in various contexts is different.”

Right, but again that’s the application not the concept/technique and even then I wouldn’t use the phrase “different” because that implies that you’re not doing the EXACT same thing you’re doing in the other context but with more/less focus on it.

It’s like saying playing music quietly is “different” than playing music loud. It’s not different, it’s the same thing, it’s just the volume/intensity of it that changes. There’s no super secret quiet song you listen to and “different” loud version of that song that you listen to, but the guys pitching their “different” shit are pitching like “oh you better listen to this LOUD version of the music, it’s DIFFERENT than that QUIET version, that shit is no good and doesn’t apply here, this is DIFFERENT, look I call it Audio Intensity instead of Volume, it’s DIFFERENT” No, it’s fucking volume. lol

It’s a small nuance but not calling it out is how we end up with Neomasculinity and Krauser’s daygame making sure guys don’t know how to deal with male competition or groups and guys like Colbert getting confused about what to study. Because that’s a part of that “SINGLE GUY PUA GAME” which is “different” from “MARRIED RED PILL GAME”, when it’s not…it’s just tweaking which part of the song is played louder than the other part, but the song is exactly the same and learning the skills from PUA translate to all those other areas BECAUSE it’s the same song.


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 12:23 pm
Original Link

@Rollo
Like my issue is when people are saying focus on Married Red Pill Game instead of “that single guy pua game”. No, learn PUA. The shit you learn in PUA is the exact same shit you’re going to be applying in Married Red Pill Game except you’re going to have a more well-rounded skillset that will prepare you for LIFE, instead of a narrow focus band-aid temporary solution and then get blindsided by some other thing you could’ve seen coming if you had been led to the proper resources and studied them beforehand.

A guy shouldn’t have to get shot multiple times to learn how to safely handle a gun. “we won’t teach him about the safety until he blows a hole in his leg” “okay now he knows about the safety but we won’t teach him to check to make sure the gun is unloaded until he blows a hole in his chest” But that’s the system you end up with when guys walk around talking about their special gun safety program for having a gun in the home VS having a gun in your truck and the stuff about having a gun in your home doesn’t apply to your truck. That’s silly, they aren’t “different” lol


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 1:01 pm
Original Link

@hank holiday
Most girls have experience with “stalkers” because stalking is so easy these days. In the old days a guy would have to go leave his house and sit in her bushes and shit lol Now he can just message her endlessly on social media from the safety of his bedroom. And “being needy” has been equated with “stalking” so even more stuff “feels” like stalking (which automatically makes it stalking…did she txt you “lol” and you thought she was still interested and didn’t realize that “lol” meant go away you creepy loser but she didn’t wanna type that and feel like a mean person? OFF TO JAIL WITH YOU, STALKER!!).

“I think this works since it tones it a bit down from the more sexual sex book dhv lol, but it connects it back to the stalker DHV (This piercing girl seemed alright, but I am a little worried since I already have a stalker lol. Should I call piercing girl back?)”

This is all a million times better than making small talk about her job. Now you’re cutting to the girl HERSELF, out of the customer/work frame, and triggering emotional impact with a sexual tone to the conversation. MUCH better. You’ll probably miscalibrate here and there at first but this is going to get you much closer to being viewed as sexworthy by girls.

And remember you just have to show that you’re cool with being sexual, you don’t have to STAY in that zone the whole interaction. You can pull back and talk about normal shit and then dip back into sexual stuff etc

“the difficulty wit daygame is that you often don’t have much time to do all this. So it is DHVing and qualifying A BUNCH, but doing it VERY FAST. . .yet in a voice that is slow and methodic lol.”

lol that’s why we work on making every word count when we plan routines and stuff. So there isn’t a bunch of filler fluff…every word Mystery says in his routines serves a purpose and is an attempt to help lead things toward his specific goals in set. Like the flipping the lightswitches analogy, we aren’t feeling around for them hoping to hit them, we’re making a straight bee-line for them and flipping them as efficiently as possible.

It’s like Mystery says, with a 6 or 7 he’ll just fuck around and try new routines out and find out what works and where to tweak them (like a comedian trying his rough new material out at dive bars), but when he runs into a 9 or 10, it’s 100% solid by the books game, running through the exact system he’s been practicing (like a comedian pulling out the fully tested material he KNOWS will work when he gets to do a huge important show) because the room for error is much smaller and you may only get a minimal time window with a 9 in a mixed set in a social environment ’cause everyone in that set is going to be her bodyguard or trying to get her themselves etc So every word counts.

@redlight
“The problem is PUA as a brand sucks. If a new guy arrives in the manosphere, and doesn’t happen on YaReally explaining integrated theory, he will assume PUA is for pickup only.”

Yup, PUA has the worst brand in the world. But that’s not entirely our fault. Tyler has put out amazing content for years but everyone needs a boogie-man to hate on and because PUA openly talks about taboo subjects and has easy targets to make fun of (like fuzzy hat Mystery and awkward uncalibrated newbies) it’s easy to shit on it.

That’s why I’d like to see less “PUA IS STOOPID” from the MGTOW/MRA/TRP/Manosphere/etc communities and see less “That stuff is only for single guys at bars, that’s not for daygame or meeting quality unicorns who don’t go to bars, that’s not for guys in marriages/relationships, bla bla bla” bullshit. I’m doing what I can to spread PUA to the only part of the Red Pill community that might listen (because some of you guys actually go out and/or WANT to get laid, whereas I would probably be banned from MGTOW forums and called a fuzzy hat man at TRP) to help get a foothold so all these guys asking questions that are already fully answered in old PUA text will hopefully go check that shit out instead of it being lost forever, but I’m only one man.

Like, a handful of you guys have checked out Mystery Method, but how many of you would have EVER looked at it if I wasn’t here going on and on about it in every fucking post lol If I just didn’t exist and no one talked about it except the guys brushing it off as fuzzy hat nonsense. I have to post about MM 500000 times just to get a handful of dudes outside of the PUA community (who WANT TO LEARN HOW TO FUCK GIRLS) to even bother to actually check it out or watch Mystery’s seminars lol Uphill battle.


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 1:07 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“But yeah, the PR is terrible for these things due to the FI. Which is why we’re so underground even here.”

Right, like, the FI already turns men away from resources like Mystery Method that would help solve 90% of their problems and questions about women…Then I gotta sit through the rest of the Red Pill community helping do the same thing? Then on top of it I gotta sit here and watch guys go on about “single guy pua game” being different than “not for the faint of heart married guy red pill game that’s different”? FML lol

Guys are mindblown when I just whip out a bunch of “hey here’s why your girl is doing this and here’s what to do and how she’ll react” shit when they vent their problem and it all makes sense and then plays out exactly how I said. But it’s not because I’m some fucking magic wizard. It’s because I studied the old shit and this stuff was all laid out in there (we had the same problems with one-itis and flaking and LMR and not sparking sexual attraction and approach anxiety and BPD chicks and cheating and trust issues and bla bla back then that guys have now) but the guys with problems haven’t looked into that stuff or don’t refer back to it and see “oh, there’s my situation”.

It helps me re-enforce the basics for myself over and over which helps my game/frame infield, but like, in an ideal world you guys wouldn’t need me. You’d be able to answer your own questions by referring back to the old material the way we had to in the old days because that was all we had lol


YaReally
on August 9th, 2016 at 1:39 pm
Original Link

@Sentient
“Haven’t you yourself said getting married reduces your game options or makes them more difficult to execute? Is that consistent with “not for the faint of heart”, i.e. harder to accomplish?”

We’ll have to wait for SJF to answer what exactly is “not for the faint of heart” about his Married Red Pill SJF Game and SJF Relationship Game and how it differs from Single Guy PUA Game to know.


YaReally
on August 11th, 2016 at 2:08 am
Original Link

@Trent Lane
“I read this and thought, genius, why hasn’t anybody ever thought about this? Turns out, someone has. After your recommendations I read the Tyler Digest and it’s all in there. It’s called the Short Set Method.”

lol AS I was reading your post I was like “that’s just Short Set Method” and was going to link the Tyler post about it and then got to this part and lol’ed. This is sort of my point, guys are out there re-“discovering” shit that’s already been mapped out and tested in detail for anyone to learn if they’d just look at the old shit. I see so many guys who head out infield and come back like “holy crap did you know that if you act like you’re not impressed by a girl, she’ll try to convince you to like her?!?!” and it’s like yes, I DID know that, it’s in the most basic PUA literature and YOU should know that too, guy who’s been going out for a year, what the fuck have you been DOING out there all this time?? lol

That’s why I keep posting that Good Will Hunting picture. The library is RIGHT THERE for free just sitting there and no one is using it. 90% of the shit I see on TRP on reddit that guys are “discovering” is shit that’s in MM and Tyler’s early posts from like 15 years ago. And then a bunch of guys jump on THAT guy’s dick like “WOW you’re a genius this make so much sense!!” and it’s like holy shit have NONE of you done your homework? You should KNOW this stuff.

I read some post I think by GayLubeOil (the guy hawking his Alpha Hoodies on newbies and shitting on PUA) where he “discovers” that to get laid at a social circle party you should ignore the target and use preselection to make her jealous. He posted it in some retarded 3-part Field Report full of Krauser-style fluff about “the electricity in the air” because he’s building himself a brand and wants the LARPers to dangle on his every word, and I read it and was like “…this is just preselection and ignoring the target. What’s the new thing he discovered. What the fuck?? Why is this 3 parts?? Why does this even exist?? Why do the guys replying seem mind-blown by this shit they should have learned on day fucking ONE??” lol

It’s always funny to me because back when The Game came out and Mystery’s VH1 show, we all shit bricks that EVERYONE was going to learn this stuff. Like oh no our secret is out there, what guy WOULDN’T jump at the chance to learn how to get pussy?? EVERY guy out there is going to be running this shit!

Turns out we didn’t have to worry at all lol Still blows my mind. It’s RIGHT THERE for anyone to look at.

(also I recommend Mystery’s video seminars over the book, the book is kind of a boring/technical read (even though it’s full of genius shit)…torrent or search through YouTube for Mystery teaching his system, it’s WAY more interesting because he’s so passionate about what he’s teaching and you can hear his voice tonality and body language when he demos his routines and stuff which gives a better idea of like “oh, okay, he changes to breaking rapport tonality when he says that line”.

@hank holiday
Not an in-depth breakdown but what you’re experiencing now is what I was aiming for with not hassling you about going too slow: now you’re legitimately starting to see that YOU can push buttons on girls and get INTENDED reactions from them. Like, you haven’t developed a 6-pack in the last month, you haven’t grown a few feet taller, you haven’t started wearing custom-fitted suits with matching pocket-squares, you haven’t become the CEO millionaire Don Draper of a company, you haven’t gotten a new Ferrari, you don’t even have a job yet, you still live at home etc.

You’re the exact same dude you were a few months ago, except now that you understand the psychology of what’s going on and how Attraction and emotions work and have put in your hours to consciously practice this stuff (sitting down and planning out a DHV instead of just “winging it” (you can wing it down the road when you have all the structure etc internalized and reflexive, like someone who can tell interesting stories off the top of their head because they understand the structure of a good compelling story)), like actually doing your homework, NOW suddenly you’ve got this superpower where you can say a thing you KNOW will make the girl’s emotions spike positively and then you say it and it DOES make her emotions spike positively.

That’s a huge empowering step for a newbie virgin dude who’s never really had any experience with women. Now that you’re experiencing THIS, this is where we can start going “okay now go FASTER”, but you can see from your writing that your brain is ALREADY trying to go faster. It’s like you learn to ride a bike and then we don’t have to TELL you to go find a ramp to go off, your brain sees a ramp and feels like it’s got a good handle on riding already and just draws you toward that ramp thinking “what if I combine my new superpower with THIS? Let’s see what happens!” lol

Like look at your writing now, compared to a few months ago…you’re like “then maybe if I stack this, then do this, then I can get her here and escalate and have sex” lol Because now your brain understands that this is under your control. Not 100% because humans are humans, but like, you are able to influence the world around you to achieve your goals dramatically more than social conditioning let you believe. NOW your brain is like “well if I can do THIS consistently, I bet I can do the NEXT step and the next step too…”

Even look at your reaction to the Latina chick who wasn’t having any of it. Instead of coming away like “she hated me I must be a loser”, you’re like “I bet I could have gotten her if I had just said this instead of that”, like that delusional sense of confidence is starting to build.

This is why I push guys to do PUA…you develop your internals with regards specifically to getting women, through field experience, while ALSO getting to get laid as you go lol Better than climbing a mountain in my opinion lol

Forge pointed out the Time Bridge stuff on the number close, so keep that shit in mind on your number closes. And accept that Day2’s will never go the way you want them to. Have a plan but expect it to get thrown out half the time forcing you to improvise shit. ANYWHERE can be a “good enough” Day2 location as long as you have you and her in isolation (in the corner of a room with her back to the room, or out for a walk somewhere, or something where you two can focus on one on one and ideally you can get laser eye-contact) where she can feel like she isn’t being judged by anyone and can escalate things or allow them to be escalated, and you have a sex location planned out that’s logistically convenient. Don’t stress that there isn’t enough “fun experiences” on the Day2 if you have to do it in her city, interacting with YOU is the “fun experience” on a Day2. So be flexible if you have to…if I had to meet up with a girl for a Day2 at like, her family’s Christmas dinner, that wouldn’t be optimal, but I would be thinking “okay I can get her outside “for a walk” before dinner where I can make out, then after dinner we can sit on that side of her living room and it looks like her little brother will probably head to sleep early so we just have to stay awake longer than him, the dinner should knock out her dad and her mom will be busy in the kitchen, so if we can sneak off to her bedroom…” lol

Like, your brain will start to learn “what are the key elements of a Day2 that I need to get the lay” and you won’t necessarily need the epic Day2 you have planned in your city. If she’ll drive up, cool, if not then use it as a learning opportunity to make a Day2 out of what you’re given in her city.

Good progress dude. Props for putting in the field work. And this is all warmup for when you live in a prime city with girls all around lol You’ll have a huge head start when a lot of guys would make excuses to not bother learning any of this until they’re in a better city.

@Rollo @Forge
“Or how about this, the dog was basically paralyzed from being in the cold water longer and far easier to toss than a woman.”
“it sounded like the dog was getting swept downstream and so had to be grabbed immediately or not at all.”

pff you guys and your LOGICAL RATIONAL EXPLANATIONS. Haven’t you guys learned ANYTHING yet?? IF YOU REALLY LOVED HER YOU WOULD HAVE SAVED HER FIRST AND THEN ALSO SAVED THE DOG EVEN IF IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE THAT’S WHAT HUGH GRANT WOULD HAVE DONE FOR AMY SCHUMER. God, time to re-read the TRM books again you guys! Change her mood not her mind!

lol jokes aside, serious question on Rollo’s OP that stood out to me reading it: How exactly is “wanting her to fully trust you” (or being surprised that she doesn’t) not the same thing as “wanting to be able to relax” (can’t remember the terminology for it, but like, wanting the game to be “over” where you don’t have to run game anymore and can just relax and trust that she’ll never test you or doubt you and you won’t have to use dread or anything)? Like, isn’t that the same thing? Shouldn’t it just be EXPECTED that she won’t ever fully trust you? Like she’ll trust you in the moment but then in the NEXT moment she’ll have to test you to make sure she can trust you?

Like in what way is expecting her to trust you by default without constantly testing, different from expecting her to remain faithful or see you as her best option or trust that you’re still an alpha etc without constantly testing?

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when I read the OP.

Also I would have saved the dog first too lol But it’s hilarious to me that I didn’t even notice the potential diss in that until someone pointed it out. GUESS I MUST BE ALPHA BRO FUCK THOSE BITCHES AND SAVING THEIR LIVES AMIRITE?! WHERE’S MY ALPHA HOODIE!


The Cardinal Rule of Sexual Strategies

Original Link

via Rational Male

YaReally
on July 30th, 2016 at 5:40 pm
Original Link

@Rollo
Sorry to hear it.

@fleezer
“Ya would say my subcomms were solid. lol. how does a guy have good subcomms before he’s blown his first load? being the last one standing in bombartment? lol.”

Yes. Just like kids playing and winning at sports and shit are more likely to carry themselves well and move with confidence etc. Plus your “competition” was fifth graders, you didn’t have to do much to have better subcomms than the herd.

But hey, maybe you’re right, I’m crazy and really body language only starts to exist once you blow a load. There’s absolutely no difference between the way one child carries themselves or interacts with people or their mindsets or anything until they discover masturbation. One 5 year old kid is exactly the same as another, in fact, it’s hard to even remember which kid is yours half the time because they’re all exactly the same! And forget brothers with two different personalities, you can’t even TELL until they’ve started pulling the pud, up till then they’re just exact duplicate clones.

@DisgruntledEarthling
“2 days later I was ghosted and I finally was told I was dumped for being too old (57 she’s 39)”

Thing is she didn’t ditch you because of your age. She ditched you because of this:

“This dumping has affected me much more than it should have. I caught some feelz for the old broad. I’m still playing by the old set of books expecting to fall in love happily ever after Disney BS.”

What you feel, she feels. What you feel comes through in your subcommunications and she’s had 30+ years of learning how to read those subcomms in men.

And I get it, it’s always nice to be around a girl and cuddle up after sex and hang out and let yourself catch a little feels, especially if you’re screening for girls who are your type with good personalities etc. We’ve all done this here and there, you’re only human and at your age it would be nice to have some stability with a regular chick instead of having to go hunting again. But at the end of the day “needing her” is what scares her off…you could be her perfect age and she would still bail and just feed you a different excuse once you start giving off those “I really do have love to give, I just don’t know where to put it” vibes:

“Maybe MGTOW is the only realistic solution for someone my age.”

Nah, but as an older dude with a shit-ton of years of social programming based on the old set of books, you will have a lot more mental habits to overcome. Give yourself a few days to mourn and then get back on the horse.

Saturday night @all, get out there and MAKE THOSE BITCHES PAY!! lol. And by that I mean go have fun and flirt and find a cute girl to consensually play with your dick.


YaReally
on August 1st, 2016 at 6:00 pm
Original Link

@hank holiday
Support what you say 100%. Keep it up. Your overall mentality is the healthiest one for a guy to develop (though understandably you have an easier time developing it than a divorced older guy paying alimony and not allowed to see his kids etc because you don’t have a big negative history with getting burned).

@all
Most guys who are angry “at women” are really just angry at society in general for lying to them and at themselves for not figuring out it was all lies and it’s just this huge clusterfuck of anger at everything…but we like to focus our anger and it’s easy to pin it all specifically down to women as a whole especially because yes, there ARE shitty women out there and society DOES excuse a lot of their bullshit.

And it’s easy to fall into “well they KNEW this was all lies and did it on purpose!!” and not understand that a lot of time, as hard as it is to wrap your head around, women were often feeding you those lies LEGITIMATELY thinking they were helping you. Like your mom wasn’t saying to be nice to girls and bring flowers on your first date thinking “haha this stupid beta chode son of mine is going to be so embarrassed and sexually frustrated haha what a loser hahaha I’m going to tell all my friends about what a loser he is haha I hope he’s a virgin forever!!” lol

It’s just that women work from a point of solipsism, so when you ask a woman “what should a guy to do get a girlfriend?” she doesn’t picture “what should 5’7″ balding ginger scrawny nasal-voiced spergy Tyler from RSD do to stick his dick inside you?” That guy isn’t even on her radar of potential partners in her mind. She’s picturing the highest-value male she can imagine and thinking “what would I want Brad Pitt to do to get me?” and she would feel like Brad Pitt is out of her league so she pictures him doing stuff to raise her value and/or lower his value to where she feels like she deserves him. So she wants Brad Pitt, this intimidatingly super attractive high-value guy to be “nice” and to bring flowers and tell her she’s beautiful and to be a gentleman and open up about his feelings with her and cry on her shoulder bla bla Because THAT version of Brad Pitt is the version she has the value to keep around.

So your mom giving you the “be a nice guy” advice was more likely than not legitimately trying to help you, not take delight in your pain, she just can’t relate to the world that you live in because of her solipsism and she can’t judge your actual value to other women because your value to women is what you DHV to them individually (one girl can think you’re amazing, the next thinks you’re a loser, all because the first girl saw you DHV’ing amazing and the second girl saw you DLV’ing).

We can’t relate to this because as dudes we’re better at putting ourselves in other people’s shoes. So when you ask me “how can I get this girl?” I look at YOU and I look at YOUR value and the girl and her perception of your value and I can give you a list of shit to do. Naturals also have this sort of blind spot solipsism which makes it hard for them to give advice…”dude, just BE COOL” is them LEGITIMATELY trying to help you out, but their solipsistic view has them assuming that ALL GUYS “just get it” to some extent because THEY “just get it” and it’s a mindfuck to them to wrap their heads around the idea that other guys wouldn’t understand any of this stuff (hi, Blaximus! lol). But that doesn’t mean those guys are maliciously trying to fuck you over, they just have a hard time relating to your world objectively.

Women are just reacting to the world around them. No one punishes them for anything right now so they just keep pushing the boundaries. It’s the exact same thing as kids acting out trying to figure out where their parents’ boundaries are. If you don’t establish any sort of boundaries/discipline, why WOULDN’T a kid just keep acting out more and more? No one’s taught them not to and if you want to get deeper they NEED someone to set boundaries so they can feel safe. I don’t want a pilot flying my plane that leaves the cockpit door unlocked and lets anyone take the stick as he just shrugs and goes “oh well, whatever, why not” and lets the stewardess distract him taking him to the back of the plane to fuck. I want a pilot that locks that door and sets boundaries so that I can relax and trust that my flight will get where it needs to go safely. If I’m really unsure, I might even purposely try to distract him with something to try to get him to ignore his boundaries and then feel RELIEVED when he tells me “nope, go sit down” and pilots our plane.

But the key that the “We need to call women out on shit!!” guys don’t get is that punishment and calling out doesn’t mean SHIT when it comes from a low-value guy and most of the guys MGTOW’ing out of a place of anger don’t get that that MAKES them low-value to the girls to begin with (“stupid evil vampire bitches, someone needs to call them out, give em a taste of their own medicine, we need to show these bitches, they’re all sluts and dishonest whores anyway, I’m not playing the game I don’t want to be some pussy-supplicating PUA loser for these parasite vampire bitches, fuck this shit!!”).

It’s like a fat chick telling you you she won’t sleep with you, why the fuck would you care what she thinks lol

It’s the guys who MGTOW out of a positive healthy attractive frame (“I’m the shit, I CAN get any woman I want, but I choose to not play the game or to stay in the single/harem system where I don’t settle down” or correcting their behavior but from a place of “this is unacceptable to me and if you want to be a part of my life you’ll stop doing it” instead of “you evil cunt bitch!! fuck you!!! stop doing that don’t you have any honor you fucking evil bitch!!” lol)…the guys with the healthy frame are the guys that cause the frustration for them because those are the guys that actually have value to them…not being able to lock THOSE guys down is what will cause change in terms of what women bring to the table.

Staying in the anger stage and developing an identity around it doesn’t do any good for you and doesn’t change anything in women’s behavior so it’s lose/lose all around…when you bitch her out about her behavior overreacting, you just become a fat chick and make your opinion not matter to her so you’re not changing their behavior or mindsets. This is why a simple Soft Next/takeaway/freezeout often works better than bitching her out…a Soft Next is feeling the loss of a high-value man who didn’t flip out and overreact because she wasn’t worth spending that kind of energy (which subcommunicates an abundance mindset etc)

And you can lecture women all you want, and you can even get them to agree to shit, but in the moment they’ll default to running on their emotions and social conditioning and just backwards hamster-rationalize their actions (which they have to be able to do to survive, War Brides dynamic and all). If you don’t understand that they’ll do that, then you don’t understand how women’s hindbrains/biology work.

I’m not giving the dog that poops on my couch a free pass and just because I don’t smack it with a rolled up newspaper that means I’m praising it for pooping on my couch and begging it to poop on other couches and showering it with rewards and belly rubs for it, I just understand that it isn’t capable of automatically knowing not to poop on my couch unless I train it NOT to, and I accept that some dogs may be too hard to train not to poop on my couch or some dogs may not provide the type of rewarding experience that’s worth teaching them not to poop on my couch. And ya, some dogs might poop on my couch to fuck with me on purpose, it happens, but it’s not the overall majority default state…for the most part the dog is just thinking “I have to poop and this couch is comfortable under my butt” and running on emotions in the moment lol But for a guy who’s been burned or doesn’t understand that dogs are not people and has unrealistic expectations of them (conditioned into him by a lifetime of social conditioning), it’s easy to read malicious intent into it everywhere they go.

From my archives:

I’ve written about what happens when a man realizes he’s been lied to his whole life here:

http://yareallyarchive.com/2012/9/#comment-heartiste-367897 – more in the link but here’s the relevant part:

“This is the same illusion-shattering concept as when you realize your CEO job won’t get you the pussy society built the illusion in your head that you’d get, your best friend did something unforgivable to you because they’re human and not perfect like the illusion you built up for them, and when women realize they’ve hit the wall and wasted their high-SMV years without securing a future because feminism built the illusion in their heads that there would be men a-plenty at 30+. Your world goes from black and white to shades of grey and you’re forced to contemplate “if everything I was so sure about was wrong, what else am I wrong about?” and you’re entire core, identity, life, purpose, goals, etc. are rocked.

It’s at this tipping point that a person goes down two paths:

1) Depression. You become jaded, cynical, sad, miserable, and feel defeated. Life feels pointless and hopeless as your brain comes to terms with the new realizations that just butt-fucked everything you held close to your core about how the world works. You become bitter, angry at the world, frustrated by the unfairness, and probably end up a MGTOW (to be fair, you can become a MGTOW in a healthy positive way too, I don’t think they’re all bitter losers despite their shitty Public Relations lol). This can also be the catalyst for removing yourself from the game entire (certain types of MGTOWs, the grass eaters movement in Japan, etc. The only difference with these groups is that there’s more of a head-in-the-sand “fuck it then, I’m outta here, good luck with all that shit y’all” mentality, which, technically speaking is actually a little healthier than reveling in the depression from a day-to-day happiness standpoint lol)

2) Acceptance. You accept the pain and shell-shock of what’s happening as a natural thing and eventually overcome it. You find new ways to appreciate the world around you despite it’s faults and you learn to accept reality for what it really is: flawed and imperfect but often filled with good things if you look for them. You realize that people are the same, we all have potential for good and bad, and that all of that is simply societal judgement attempting to solidify shades of grey into black and white for easier processing and teaching to new generations and to keep society stable.

A person can go through a period of Depression and end up in Acceptance, but it’s a difficult climb. How much of your identiy, reality, beliefs, hopes, future projections, etc. you based on your beliefs is a big part of what determines which path you go down. When I swallowed the red pill, I had no problem traveling the Acceptance path because I had so little experience with women that I had no part of my world based on them except the occasional day-dream about the white-picket fence life. Most of the middle-of-the-road madonna/whore complex guys tend to have much more wrapped up in their beliefs on how women are or should be, so they can go either way. The stereotypical angry bitter MRA types have usually been so burned by women that their whole identity/life/etc. was shattered by the red-pill which is why they tend to end up on the Depression/MGTOW path.”

It’s okay to be pissed. Ideally we’ll help you channel that into self-development and rewiring yourself into something amazing, but it’s okay to be angry for a while just like it’s okay to be sad when a loved one dies…as long as you eventually work on pulling out of it toward something more productive and positive for yourself.

And no woman can define for a man what that productive positive “something” IS, despite their solipsistic nature that tells them they’re the experts on everything and them and all their friends are NAWALTs.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 2:51 am
Original Link

@Andy
“Having a bit of an identity crisis. I’ve changed so much that I’m realizing that I have no idea who I am.”

Up till now you’ve let other people and social conditioning tell you what your identity is or what it should be. The realization that you can just ignore that and be whoever you want can be a mind-fuck.

Giving you personality quizzes is just telling you “okay so you don’t want society’s pre-defined label (happily married monogamous 2.5 kids white-pickett fence hard-working father etc when, half the time you look in the mirror you don’t see THAT guy at ALL and feel guilty for it) that you’ve been trying to live up to, how about these OTHER pre-defined labels instead?” and doesn’t really get that you’re not asking me “Who am I?”, you’re actually asking me “How do I figure out who I am?” Some guys find comfort in a pre-defined label, just like a lot of guys make good soldiers “just follow your instructions and don’t ask questions”. But other guys get antsy being told who they are when that definition doesn’t feel like it fits.

“Like if you can change this much, is there any such thing and an inherent identity at all?”

If tomorrow you decided to just punch everyone you meet in the face, your identity would be “that guy who punches everyone in the face”. Just like a prisoner can decide to use his time to study and educate himself and then come out of prison and NOT go back to an identity that involves a life of crime, a good decent dude can decide to go out robbing banks and stabbing homeless people and become a criminal.

You are free to do anything you want with your life. The catch for you personally is that you’ve legally tied yourself to a situation and have kids you care about, so you have to take those things into account…but as you’ve found from talking to your wife, the CURRENT version of how you live within those boundaries is not necessarily the version you HAVE to live. You can get a lot closer to “who Andy is” than you are right now. But that’s scary because who the fuck knows what the consequences and risks of THAT will look like lol We can give you general risks and tips, like I can tell you if you have a 3-some with your wife and a girl make sure you treat the other girl as a 3rd wheel for the two of you or you’re probably going to get drama, or I can tell you if you fuck some other girl you’re probably going to need to say/do certain things to diffuse the situation…but ultimately you’re the only one who can find out what the end result will look like.

“Do I just choose who I want to be?”

You can, but what you’ll find is that there IS an “Andy”. He’s trapped under a shitload of social conditioning and chains and bad wiring. But under there is an “id” (in the Freudian sense) that’s been bottled up. Everyone’s is different. Part of the reason I love my life is that I live very close to my id, I do what I want when I want and I accept my wants/needs/desires good and bad. I try to control some of the bad stuff (like wanting to just scarf down junk food all day or not go to work lol) but the good stuff or the “outside society’s box” stuff, I just accept it and run with it. The reason I know I enjoy pLTRs more than monoLTRs is because I’ve decided at various points “I’m going to try being open about seeing other girls” and learned that I enjoy that lifestyle more than sneaking around or denying myself. At the same time I have a buddy who THOUGHT he wanted the same thing but when he got it he realized it was a lot of drama and hassle to him and he actually just wanted regular reliable sex and does a serial monogamy thing while still going out and flirting with girls etc

“But like how do you know? Like is that initial urge to say or do something “me”? Or is it something that I just experiment with and some things will feel “right”?”

This is why we push guys into the field…because just like how you picture what you’d do in a fight, you have an idea of what you think you’d do in various situations or what would make you happy etc, but you don’t REALLY know…just like you might suddenly find yourself closing your eyes and flailing in your first actual fight, you might find that banging another girl DOES feel empty to you, or she’s shitty and you realize you really just need visual variety and roleplaying/wigs/etc in bed with your wife is enough for you, or you might find you feel alive and love it and it has no effect on your feelings for your wife, or you might find you love it and want to ditch your wife completely. Who knows maybe you and your wife hit a swingers bar and become a part of that lifestyle with other couples or find a plaything.

You can theorize about it all but you don’t really KNOW yourself until you push yourself out of your comfort zone.

Like if you went back 10 years and asked me “who is YaReally?” or even “who will YaReally be in 10 years?” there is NO way I would have described myself lol I was fully on my way to the plantation, full Blue Pill, I would have been the exact white knighting friend zoned seemingly-asexual growing-bitter-and-frustrated “omg how could sarah sleep with that guy on the first date?! Doesn’t she have any self-respect?!” chode that I make fun of now.

But by going out infield and pushing myself into all these situations, I was forced to confront all these things outside of my comfort zone and address them. That’s why I push back when people cry about hearing uncomfortable truths and don’t want me to be “negative”. This is reality, deal with it. Until you accept it and face it head on, it’s all just mental masturbation. It does no one in the community any good to perpetuate myths for the sake of assuaging their feels.

“I feel like a blank slate right now.”

That’s a thousand times better than “knowing yourself” but knowing a self that isn’t actually you and always feels like a glove that doesn’t quite fit. You’re one step closer to enlightenment. πŸ˜‰

“Actually I think I just need to slow down and try and forget about all this shit for a while. Lol. Later guys!”

lol do what you gotta do. This is all a lot to process and reflect on.

@Culum Struan
Props dude. Lol’ed at the “what would YaReally do?” If I was your wingman and you were dressed up and voiced a concern to me about going to a kiddie club overdressed and wanting to go home to change I would literally cut your thread and go “What, are you worried you’re going to be TOO fucking handsome? That no one else is going to get laid because you’re better dressed than all of them? That every girl in there with daddy issues, which is all of them, are going to want to suck your cock and you can’t figure out how you’re going to bang 20 girls at a time?” and just plow through your frame until you accepted my frame of “you look awesome and girls all want to fuck you” lol

I mean really stop and think about how funny/insane your thought process is (not your fault, it’s social conditioning): you’re dressed GOOD, and you’re worried about going to a venue full of girls you want to fuck because you’re DRESSED WELL. Like, social conditioning has created so many arbitrary bullshit little rules that you actually feel SELF CONSCIOUS about LOOKING GOOD just because you’re going into one set of 4 walls, VS another set of 4 walls where you would feel totally comfortable or maybe even UNDERdressed if it was a fancy place. Like, how ridiculous IS that? Social conditioning basically gives us a bunch of completely arbitrary rules to follow to keep us busy and self-doubting so we always feel like we need more (consumerism, self-help, etc) and always ping off our environment for what to do and learn to follow social order. Society doesn’t want you to feel comfortable eating in a fancy restaurant, it wants you to feel self-conscious because you don’t know if you’re using the proper fork for the salad sitting in front of you…you could just use your fucking hands, it doesn’t really MATTER lol, but because you’re in a certain type of venue you suddenly feel self-conscious and look around the table to see which fork everyone else uses before you act and you act with hesitation and self-doubt instead of decisively…then you add up a LIFETIME of that kind of programming and is it any wonder you feel self-conscious to go into a kiddie venue dressed up?

And if you were UNDERdressed I would do the exact same thing but in reverse: “What, are you worried you’re not going to look try-hard enough? That no one else is going to get laid because you look like you just rolled out of a marathon fuck-session and every girl in there is going to want to fuck the guy who looks like he gives zero fucks? That every girl in there looking for a guy who gives no fucks, which is all of them, are going to want to suck your cock and you can’t figure out how you’re going to bang 20 girls at a time?” etc etc until you accept my frame and walk in feeling pimp lol

Years of learning to reframe shit there lol I had to learn it by going out solo and telling myself the same shit and trying to steamroll my own internal thought loops that were going “YOU LOOK LIKE A WEIRDO OMG EVERYONE IS GONNA LAUGH AT YOU LOOK EVERYONE THINKS YOU LOOK RETARDED” when I was learning to peacock or just not dressed right for the venues etc

Cause the options are either reframe it and tear shit up, or sit in a corner like a chode feeling self-conscious and going home kicking yourself. And I did PLENTY of the latter. I had TONS of nights where I hid in a corner feeling retarded because I wasn’t in a good state but was peacocked up in a flashy shirt and got too inside my head until I ran away from the venue and went home hating myself for being a pussy lol It’s just the process, no biggie.

And props on opening anything around you. I like Julien’s mindset of “there’s about an arms-length bubble around me in my mind, anyone who enters that bubble gets opened”.

I like this demo, he goes from a nobody to surrounded by girls just by doing what you did except 1) staying in set and 2) merging forward (he uses his buddies but why not merge strangers with eachother?):

“I WAY prefer nightclubs – I love the energy and the noise the total crowd of girls and targets as opposed to walking around aimlessly in the daytime with bad state looking for targets. I know that’s a mental block too (about the daytime) but especially when alone it’s easier to pump myself up in night game (even without drinking).”

I highly recommend nightclubs for a lot of these reasons. “But YaReally, doesn’t that just mean nightclubs will become a crutch???” Yes, yes it does mean that lol But as long as you’re AWARE of that, then it’s not a big deal.

Like you CAN base your self-worth on your looks, as long as you understand that you will have to deal with a nightmare of internal issues if you lose your looks or they’re devalued (a better looking guy is around, a girl has a bunch of equally or better looking guys in her social circle hitting on her etc, an asshole like me gets the girl making fun of your looks for being too try-hard or obsessive etc).

The problem I have is that a lot of TRP/Manosphere promotes looks as NOT a crutch but an actual thing that matters and will affect your ability to attract women, so guys are given the idea that it’s necessary instead of being a crutch which would be just as wrong as me promoting that nightclubs are necessary.

I’ll never tell you nightclubs are “better” than daygame. But I WILL give you a list of pros and cons of both so you can decide on which environment you prefer to focus on, or whether you want to dabble in both at the same time, and so that you understand that IF you focus primarily on one type of environment, you will probably have a difficulty curve learning to game in the other type of environment down the road if you decide to transition (like a lot of guys leave the bar scene eventually and transition more to day/social circle game). And even then I’ll point out nuances like that nightclub game will give you a more rounded skillset (AMOGs, cockblocks, deflecting brutal shit-tests, running group sets, etc) than daygame (the way a guy like Krauser teaches it where it’s just focus on the minimum required skillset-wise), so the transition from nightclubs to daygame will be easier than the transition from daygame to nightclubs if you decide down the road you want to tackle nightclubs.

So go ahead and stick with nightclubs a bunch, embrace it, have fun, no one cares that you’re old, all anyone cares about is that you’re cool and fun and bring good value. I lecture random nervous looking young guys at those venues like they’re my son lol “I saw that, she just checked you out hard, go talk to her kid, life is short” and give him a pep-talk or grab the girl and intro them etc lol And I tell girls I’m too old for them or they’re too young for me as disqualifiers and can’t count the number of young hotties that have told me they’ve already dated guys OLDER than me lol it’s all funny shit…and BECAUSE I view it as funny shit, that’s WHY it doesn’t matter to girls. Young GUYS make a bigger deal of my age in those venues than girls do and usually that’s just because they see me getting attraction from the girls they wished they were getting it from so it doesn’t bother me, it’s a compliment lol

That’s why I call these places kiddie nightclubs…like why don’t I use a term that makes it sound like a belong there? As soon as I say kiddie nightclub I make it SOUND like a venue where I’m a creepy old man who doesn’t belong there. But that’s funny shit to me so I use that term on purpose. It’s like Tyler says: “The game is hilarious to me…the fact that I’m in there hitting on these 21yo girls, I’m 36 with a career and 2 kids at home, that’s fucking FUNNY, I shouldn’t be in there doing that!!” lol

Props on pushing your comfort zone. I’d have given you shit if you had gone home and changed clothes lol Again this is why we push field experience in the PUA community. I could TELL you your clothes don’t matter, but you’ll only ever believe it within your own personal reference experience of the world…just like when I tell guys about looks/money and because they’ve focused on looks/money too much they can’t relate to what I’m saying, you won’t ACTUALLY fully believe me until you test it yourself and gather those reference experiences first-hand.

@Hollenhund @whoever you’re quoting
“Is fatherhood viable in the FI world? If not, then we don’t have the “new generations” and “stable society” that YaReally speaks of. Instead we have the decline.

I reckon he specifically stated that he isn’t planning to start a family and have children, and doesn’t believe in the future regeneration of Western civilization.”

lol wut? I never said anything about a stable society or regeneration. A lack of fatherhood won’t prevent new generations, look at ghettos and shit. They’ll just be fucked up and raised by social conditioning which is unfortunate.

And I don’t plan to have kids yet but I’m open to the possibility that I might in my mid/late 40s because I do feel the biological urge to pass on my DNA/genes (I’m wicked-smaht after all). Society has just created a legal/social system that makes it incredibly risky for a man to attempt that. So until I figure out how to get around all those barbed wires and shit, or pass a point in my life where I don’t mind the risks, no kids/settling for me. To me it’s like counting cards at blackjack…even if I WANT to play it wouldn’t make sense when I know the deck isn’t in my favor. But if I can stack the deck in my favor and feel the urge to play, I may do it. I just don’t see that happening for a solid 10 years because I enjoy being single and don’t have any real fatherly paternal instinct. Raising Andy is enough work as it is, I gotta change his diapers every time he shits out another existential crisisπŸ˜‰ lol

@ChunkyMonkey
“Before I read your post, I was struggling to grasp the mindset of solipsism, but this really illustrates one aspect of that sort of thinking.”

Glad it helped. When a girl says “just be yourself” it’s not because she thinks Tyler the aspergy little ginger balding troll is going to get to fuck her if he’s just “himself”. It’s because she’s picturing Brad Pitt and she doesn’t want Brad Pitt to “run game” on her (even though her hindbrain DOES want that), because she already thinks she doesn’t deserve him as it is so she just wants him to honestly be himself and for that self he’s being to be the super alpha badass she imagines he is. She can’t comprehend that a Tyler would EVER be able to fuck her lol It’s outside of her reality until it happens. Tyler ultimately does just have to “be himself”, but to get TO himself from the shitty place he started out, he had to hit the field and unwire a ton of bad wiring and unchain a bunch of bullshit social conditioning and work on his entitlement etc to where he COULD be himself around her. But she can’t wrap her head around that, so she’s going to tell newbie-Tyler “just be yourself and SOMEONE will love you…(not ME, but maybe you’re Brad Pitt to that ugly toothless 2/10 over there)” when he asks for advice.

@Klem
“it’s not so much that they act according to their biological wiring, but more that they act like this because THEY CAN.
Like no one calls them out on their bad behavior, and even if they are mega bitch, they will always have thirsty guys orbiting. Therefore why shouldn’t they?”

Their biological wiring is designed TO act up, to test the men around them to make sure they’re surrounded by alphas like Blaximus who will smack them down into place (because THAT guy is going to protect them and their offspring and their offspring is going to be a badass like him), or to find out if they’re surrounded by beta chodes who are going to let them do whatever they want (if you can’t tell a stupid silly 21yo GIRL “no”, how are you going to take on the world to protect your offspring and how much of a pussy is your offspring going to be?).

It’s just that while in the past you could lay down some authority, NOW you’ll be fucked for even trying to or suggesting it. Now the legal and social system is completely stacked against men being able to set any kind of boundaries on women, and men are being conditioned to be ashamed for even THINKING about restricting women in any capacity. Witness the whole “don’t tell me not to get voluntarily blackout wasted at a party full of men I don’t know while wearing a slutty skirt, tell men not to rape!!” mindset. Complete insanity but if you DARE suggest a girl take any kind of precautions just like you’d recommend a guy take when he walks through a dark alley at night, you’ll be shamed and obliterated across the internet for life.

So girls are running wild because no one really CAN lay down any sort of authority. And this mindset is all becoming normalized and internalized deeper with each generation. Right now we have older guys like Blaximus still around to remind us how to treat women who act up, but one day Blax will be gone and so will we and 2 or 3 generations from now it’ll be like that Sean Connery clip about slapping a woman where it’s scandalous to even imagine people used to think that way.

This is why everyone is hoping for a war or economic collapse or something to align all of this again. Because in a crisis situation, everyone is forced back into their traditional gender roles running on their hindbrain programming, for survival. Women suddenly need men again and men are rewarded for sacrifice again and are given hand because suddenly they’re necessary for women to survive and can start calling the shots learning to lead the ship again etc

“I find funny guys talking about how men are so morally superior, whereas in most cases guys behave because being an asshole has a big cost, even up to physical arm. I wonder how many guys would act morally if they could get away with ANYTHING, if no matter how bad their behavior, they would be praised and keep having an ocean of girls willing to suck their dicks…”

lol like Tyler says: girls aren’t sluts. Girls have more self-control than most of us would ever have. A girl turns down sex literally hundreds of times a day. Every guy she interacts with or is even in the same ROOM with, wants to fuck her and would fuck her in a heartbeat and is offering her dick like Chris Rock says…so some girl who’s fucked 10 guys in a year, she’s turned DOWN hundreds of thousands of guys. If YOU had 100 girls a day offering you sex, you would be fucking different girls 24/7. lol

@Softek
“Keeping men sexually starved until they’re in their 30’s and beyond perpetuates that myth. If you’ve never been with a woman, how do you know they’re not all angels?”

And if we can just give them Netflix and videogames to fill their time with, and porn/VR-porn/sexbot shit to vent their sexual frustrations with, we can keep that myth going forever before we get a bunch of Elliot Rogers clones.

@digireaper
Ya I had the same thing. No real severe negative experiences (no experiences at all), so I didn’t come into the game with a lot of baggage to work through. But I’ve hung with and helped guys who HAVE that baggage. The end solution is always the same: just suck it up and put in the hours infield.

@Andy @Sun Wukong
“These radical shifts are always difficult, but they are always “me”. The discomfort does not come from the internal change in thought. It’s not because this new identity isn’t “me”. It comes from the process of trying to make my actions going forward congruent with who I have become, and the almost inevitable conflict this will cause with the world around me.”

This. Well said.

@redlight @Fred Flange
“This research paper indicates that the cock carousel is less prevalent than expected outside of the bar/nightclub/tinder/hookup scene:”

lol self-survey and doesn’t account for a ton of variables, so it’s retarded to begin with, but since everyone’s gonna discuss it anyway: it just demonstrates that like I said: 80/20 is becoming 90/10. These girls are surrounded by our equivalent of “fat chicks”, so shockingly they’d rather cuddle up and not have sex, and those guys are so beta that they’re happy with that. Those same chicks will fuck the shit out of a guy who flips their Attraction switches (10% fucking 90%) but they have less and less of those guys in their peer groups as the FI takes over and masculinity is neutered. That’s why suddenly all these young hotties are making their age search on Tinder 30+ and have all dated older men etc, because they’re subconsciously thinking “an older guy will know how to flip my Attraction switches”.

And this goes back to what I was saying about <25yo girls being less hesitant to go over to a new guy's place on a Day2…it's almost like they can't even comprehend a guy having enough sexual drive to try to fuck them. They seem to legitimately come over thinking we're going to just watch Netflix and cuddle and hang out and then hook up the next time lol Which is unreal because in the past a girl coming over and teasing a guy for a few hours and not putting out was like, shit, that guy might RAPE you, that's a really dangerous situation to put yourself in. But now girls will do that with seemingly zero fear, it's really weird to see. It's like watching someone playing with knives having no idea the edge is dangerous. But when you look at their culture, of going over to chodey peer boy's places to cuddle and watch Netflix and those boy's are asexual as fuck and sex happens entirely on the girl's terms/schedule etc, it makes more sense.

Also I can pretty much guarantee that fat chick at the top has a bunch of orbiter dudes who'd happily fuck her if they had the chance lol

"Nobody fucks"

lol no. They're not fucking to try to have kids, and it doesn't "mean anything" as much now, but they're fucking. It's just heading toward 90/10 so less boys are fucking and if the girls aren't fucking that 10% the other options around them are so unattractive that they end up uninterested in sex until they run into a guy who DOES stoke that attraction in them.

@Anonymous Reader
"Was just listening to a couple of Millennial college men, talkingrillyfast. Like girls, so no one else gets a word in edgewise? Uptalking, even? at the end of sentences as they run into the next sentence? Sheesh."

Welcome to our competiton for hot young poon lol Guys like this are EVERYWHERE now.

@Colbert
"I think Ya Really had that same advantage and so it is a perspective without HURT or JUDGEMENT which translates into your subcomms and reactions to shit tests when doing infield PUA interactions. Because you have no baggage you’re not nearly affected by the tests they throw at you which of course they intuit as being Alpha. It’s like you’re starting from a clean slate which is kind of nice."

The thing is none of this matters. I know that's harsh to say, especially to a guy who's got a good sob story. If you read my early posts to scribblerg back when he was first starting out with this journey, you'll see me say repeatedly that he is totally justified in feeling like life is unfair and that this is all the odds stacked against him and bla bla bla and I told him repeatedly that no one would blame him if he just gave up, he had EVERY reason in the WORLD to just give up, if he said he did I would look at his life and the cards he was dealt and go "ya man, I get it, I can't blame ya" and tell him to enjoy numbing himself with Netflix for the next 20+ years till he finally dies.

But, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter WHY you feel that way. The ONLY solution is "hit the field". You cannot theorize your way out of bad reference experiences, you need to collect new better reference experiences. If you got burned by a BPD chick your first go out, hey, that sucks, but all that's left is "go out and collect better reference experiences". If you got divorce-raped, if you have no baggage at all but are lonely, none of that matters, you aren't a special snowflake with a special case, the solution is always: "go out and gather more positive reference experiences".

So I disregard the sob stories because while I feel for those guys, I really do, it just doesn't matter. At the end of the day it comes down to taking action.

A light switch across the room might be easier for me to flip on than you…maybe you're old and worn down and your back hurts and you're in a wheelchair, but if you want that light on, you're going to have to find a way to get across the room and flip it on. It doesn't matter if the wheelchair accident wasn't your fault or if you flipped on a dozen lights before that zapped you and you're tired, whatever…all of that can be PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED, like I might not blame you at ALL if you just decide you don't want to go near the light switch and are happy sitting in the dark. But if you aren't happy that way and you DO want some light, then all it comes down to is crawling your ass over to that wall and flipping that switch on.

I find a lot of guys in the Manosphere/MGTOW/MRA just want everyone to hear their sad story so they can get pats on the back and guys telling them "ya man, bitches are evil!! You were fucked over, fuck those bitches man!! Girls are all cunts!!" to help them justify not crawling toward the light switch. And that's fine, if you just want a support group to vent to and make a victim identity for life out of it, other guys will help give you that.

But every year you spend as a victim is a year you're wasting that you could've been gathering better reference experiences and getting yourself to a better mental headspace. It won't be easy, it'll be scary, and it won't happen fast, and you'll even gather some BAD reference experiences along the way too, holy shit the second girl you date might ALSO be BPD, fuck maybe even the THIRD. But all there is is going back into the field and learning to screen better and learning more about yourself and learning to set and enforce your boundaries and learning to get what you want etc until you have carefully screened women in your life that you enjoy having around, and you have them in your life on your terms because you've learned to enforce those.

So I just give the real-talk. For guys that just want to vent about how unfair life is and are still in the anger stage or don't want to change, that's fine, skip my posts for now. But if at some point that guy thinks "I'm probably going to live for another 20-40+ years…do I want to spend that time without any women in my life in any context? Do I want to hold onto this anger/victim mindset for that long?" and decides he wants to change that…there's my post, sitting there waiting for him to re-read.

@Sun Wukong
Smileys and anime. You forgot to mention in your field reports that you're gaming dudes you homo lol

"Her: Gosh!! Really?? I wanna have that pizza"

Found footage of Sun's pizza date:

@Forge the Sky
"(Before we go that way again, I’ll just point out that it’s not the bowtie itself. It’s the fact, as with all peacocking, you’re confident enough to stand out without being insecure.)"

This can never be re-stated enough. It's the subcomms the bowtie and fuzzy had indicate that trigger Attraction, not the bowtie or fuzzy hat themselves.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 4:37 am
Original Link

@Colbert
“Roger that. I’m picking up what you’re putting down even though I’m scared and all of those negative feelings are true. I accept what you have to say and know that a person’s trials and tribulations are irrelevant. Victims are like energy vampires and I didn’t intend to come across that way. ”

I’m not picking on you specifically. I’m broad-brush painting trends I’ve seen over the years in these spheres. And I know it comes off callous but like, I know other guys will offer sympathy etc, especially other guys in the same headspace (like an MRA or MGTOW forum)…but not a lot of guys will offer actual solutions because not a lot of guys are actually out there doing pickup or helping older guys who’ve been burned get past all this stuff to come out on the other side of it. And that’s great, for a while, but that doesn’t really lead anywhere except stewing in having been hurt. It’s kind of like falling off your bike and then just sitting there. It can be TOTALLY understandable that you’re discouraged, and COMPLETELY not your fault you fell off that bike. And you may decide riding bikes sucks. But at the end of the day if you want to learn to ride a bike, and you’ve seen other people having fun riding bikes and deep down have that little pang of “well, I don’t want to legally tie myself to a bike for life but it would be nice to coast down a hill and feel the wind in my hair now and then…”, PUA is offering solutions, and those solutions involve hitting the field. πŸ™‚

The trials and tribulations you’ve gone through are a part of you now…but they don’t have to be a part of you down the road. They’re a chain like any other chain and as you can see from the support we give guys like Culum, hank, scribblerg, wala, Forge, Sun, Andy, etc etc we’re all here to help guys who decide to get back up on the bike. We’re gonna give you helmets and we’re gonna teach you the rules of the road and we’re gonna try to help keep you from getting too discouraged if you fall again, but the help is right here waiting for any guy who needs it.

“The funny thing is my bitterness is not even so much at women as it is not really ever having a good handle on just developing a stronger masculine identity.”

Right, that was sort of my point in my first post. It’s easy to project it onto women, but the reality is most guys are frustrated with just “everything”, and partly with themselves for not being equipped with the tools to succeed and for trusting the tools they were given and not realizing (often despite overwhelming evidence when they look back on it) that was staring them in the face.

But it’s not their fault, they were victims of social conditioning like we all were. But they don’t have to stay that way once they find resources like this.

“Not interested in feeling, thinking or acting like a victim, YaReally, and I’m certainly not interested in putting out a victim vibe with anybody here on THIS forum. Shit, we all have stuff to deal with and it’s all relative anyway.”

The way I approach these things is you have, say, Approach Anxiety. The solution to Approach Anxiety is to approach people and engage them to gather positive reference experiences that 99% of the time nothing bad will happen and often good things will happen (like hank talking to that black dude and learning a bunch of new stuff to think about).

Now you may have minor Approach Anxiety because it’s just something you’ve never done. Or you may have been punched in the face the last 500 times you tried approaching someone. I feel for you if you’re the second guy, that is an unfortunate situation…but the solution is the same regardless of why you have that approach anxiety: go approach.

So in my mind we can sit and talk out your whole life and you can tell me all about how the first time you got punched for approaching a stranger was when you were 5 years old and you can describe all the painful details of the 499 other punches you’ve received and you can show me medical x-rays of all the broken bones in your face and I can pat you on the back and go man that is hard, that shit is rough, that sucks, I wouldn’t blame you if you never wanted to approach again you’d be perfectly justified.

…but after all that, if, at the end of the day, you have some little desire in you that wants to be able to talk to strangers, the solution is the same as it was before we want on that life story journey of yours: go approach. Except that now we’re a few hours, days, weeks, possibly years, behind where you would have been if we had skipped your life story and gotten you to just go approach. It’s about efficiency. ’cause most of the guys who have legit cases of being burned like divorce raped and shit, those guys are in their late 30s or 40s or 50s and they don’t have TIME to waste dwelling on the past. When Softek finally gets out of his shitty relationship he can be emo for a year or two and it won’t matter ’cause he’s still a young dude, he has all the time in the world. But a guy like scribblerg in his 50s, he has to get crackin ’cause he’s not gonna get younger and it’s not gonna get easier. Whether you’re 50+ or 15, the solution is the same: go approach.

“In “edgelord land” I would be but a peasant. BTW, I understand that you can’t theorize your way out of a dark room and at some point you just have to go out there and hit it and face the negative feelz that come with THAT. I’m not happy about that fact. I’m not looking forward to it. I understand that it is what it is.”

It scared us all at first. Hell it still scares me sometimes. When I’ve had to take breaks from sarging here and there to focus on work or whatever and I have to get back infield it’s like “oh man, this is going to suck” and I want to chicken out lol It’s SCARY to push yourself out of your comfort zone…but that’s where growth happens. πŸ™‚

To paraphrase Julien: “Okay sure, you’re right: it sucks and it’s unfair. So what’s the alternative? Spend the rest of your life alone? Numb yourself with Netflix and videogames and booze until you die alone in your apartment writing a suicide note with the little sob story you’ve been telling people for the last 20 years? Is that the life you want for yourself? ’cause you can HAVE that…it’s SO EASY to have that. You just have to NOT DO ANYTHING and you’ll have that. You’ll achieve your goal of being alone for the rest of your life. Congratulations, you’re a success! Or, you can go out and push yourself outside of your comfort zone, out of the victim mentality, and learn how get the lifestyle you really want.”

“I’m not looking forward to it.”

This is the first thing to work on reframing. πŸ˜‰


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 4:44 am
Original Link

Haven’t watched the video and haven’t done any research into whether it’s legit or not, but this is making the rounds right now and the more stories about this shit that get out there the better:

http://alienjack.com/

THIS guy, I’d understand if he wanted to just MGTOW for life. But if at some point he decided 10 years from now that he wanted to have women in his life again, the action he’d have to take would be the same as the action a young dude with no baggage would have to take.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 4:57 am
Original Link

Dude’s story sounds legit, some people have known him on Facebook and it seems like it checks out:

Also ran across this documentary again while sifting for details on this other guy and this is a good documentary to watch (don’t spoil the ending ahead of time) if you haven’t seen it:

Like I say, I’m not having kids until the deck is more in my favor and I can make sure I won’t end up like these guys.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 10:03 am
Original Link

“78% of the children in a study who had ADHD as a child, no longer had the disorder when they were 18. Their ADHD resolved over time.”

“We ascertained ADHD diagnosis in childhood on the basis of mother and teacher reports of 18 symptoms of inattention and hyperactivity-impulsivity”

I wonder how many of those teachers of under 18yos were also chicks like the mothers, frustrated by the energy involved in getting rambunctious young boys and their masculine energy to settle down, HMMM…

“Participants were from the Environmental Risk Longitudinal Twin Study of 2,232 twin children”

So are we asking single moms raising TWINS (aka DOUBLE the stress/frustration)? If we’re not asking single moms then why aren’t we asking the dads their opinions too? Are these kids in the classes with these teachers together? Are the twins the same genders? Are we talking a single mom raising two boys or a mother/father (but we don’t ask his opinion) raising twin girls? How many boys VS girls are in the study exactly and why isn’t that information noted up front that seems odd when boys are significantly more diagnosed with ADHD than girls so it seems like that would be relevant data (unless it pointed out an uncomfortable truth to society…)? Personally the fact that they keep referring to children and the photo they used is of twin girls, makes me think most of the study are boys since headlines usually say “400 PEOPLE injured” if it’s men and “1 WOMAN nearly killed, 399 OTHERS injured” if there’s a woman involved lol

“It is also possible that disturbed sleep leads to ADHD symptoms. It is clear that those experiencing poor sleep quality may display symptoms typical of ADHD”

Now what could cause bad sleep quality in rambunctious young twin kids in a household where you don’t ask the father (if there is one) his opinion…maybe having no rules (like bedtime, dietary habits, no iPad past 9pm, no staying out late, etc) enforced around the house by a strong male authority figure? Having strange men in your house banging your single mom all night? Mommy coming home in the middle of the night from getting railed? Not being given an outlet at school like recess and gym class to run around and burn off energy incase someone hurts themselves? (first thing the Dog Whisperer does with crazy dogs is put them on a treadmill to burn their energy out, I know my friends and I wore ourselves out at recess/gym) Being fed a bunch of garbage sugary food because fuck cooking I’m tired from working at my HR job at the office all day I’ll just bring home McDonald’s and the twin kids crying is annoying when mommy’s trying to calm her headache so fine just have whatever junk food you want if you’ll shut up ugh mommy needs her wine.

(disclaimer: I haven’t looked into this study in-depth and am purposely poking the “women are evil and the world is ending” bear since that’s the running theme of the comment section this week lol, but it wouldn’t surprise me if the stuff I just wrote is pretty solid guesswork)

“And women in their 30s are the demographic with the most new diagnoses because it doesn’t tend to get bad until we are adults.”


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Original Link

@Sentient
“And when men point out the counter to this… that you – yes you Starbuck – can lead and take control of your family and influence your kids behavior via the mystical process known heretofore as “parenting” – you dismiss it as a bunch of old guys who lock there kids away on farms in imaginary communities…

Lolliest of lols…”

I know right? Hilarious shit. You should E-Mail that guy with the recent heart surgery who’s video I linked above and tell him he should’ve just manned up instead of being a pussy bitch and he’d have his kids and house right now bruh!

Tell it to this guy too:

“So my journey through NJ’s corrupt and abusive family court system has come to an end. I have run out of money to continue to fight to see my children. I am mourning the loss of my relationship with my children. I have not had meaningful contact with them in almost three years. The family courts suspended my parenting time without any just cause and I have been fighting for the last three years to get time with them. My last Motion I filed in court in march, my attorneys suggested that I ask for “therapeutic reunification.” Their reasoning was, ask for something easy for the court to say yes to, so at least you will be able to see your kids. While this was not ideal, it made sense to me. So I filed the motion. We had oral argument. I was hopeful because the Judge was saying on the bench that she didn’t understand why the father was not seeing his children. This gave me hope. The judge wanted to interview the children. My attorney warned the Judge that the kids have been alienated from me for close to three years and that they have been fully inculcated into the mothers view of the world. It did not matter, the judge ruled that she wants me, even though I have no criminal record for anything, to go through a 26 week course for convicted male batterers and get a psychological eval. I have to complete this BEFORE I even get to see my children. After talking it through with family, trusted friends, redditors and other parents in nj who are in a support group I am in, I have come to the conclusion I may never see my children again. I do not have the money to fight anymore. My ex’s parents are super wealthy and have unlimited funds to continue to fight in court. So I am giving up the fight, will mourn the loss of my children and try to move on.”

And the million other stories I could post of wives using the fucked up legal family/divorce court system to punish men for daring to “influence their kids behavior” in a way they don’t agree with.

But hey, it’s the lolliest of lols right? Let’s keep pushing guys into a system that’s massively stacked against them in 2016 with chicks that have been brought up fully entitled to use that against them when they’re unhaaaappy! lolololol!!

Hey man, it’s only a problem if you’re a fuckin PUSSY, not like Sentient the old badass who married some chick brought up in an earlier culture and earlier court system etc.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 12:28 pm
Original Link

@Sentient
Bunch more pussies for ya to educate on how they should’ve just been more badass like you:

“I haven’t seen my son in a year or my daughter in 7 months. They’ve been completely brainwashed into their mother’s world view and so they won’t talk to me, respond to my texts, e-mails, phone calls. My heart has been broken, and this is after a 12 yr custody battle, that I can no longer afford to keep up. I fear the same thing happening to me, and grieving the loss of their relationship is literally killing me. I want to die. I live in Utah and the family court system here is openly prejudiced towards the mothers–we fathers are just screwed. ”

“My mom alienated me from my father growing up, telling me lies about how he didn’t want me. When my father and I reconciled (it was difficult for me to give him the chance considering what I was told growing up), we compared notes and that’s when we BOTH found out that my mom had been lying to us! She’d tell me that he’d want nothing to do with me and then go tell him I’d want nothing to do with him.”

“I’m sorry to hear that, my father was 40,000 in debt before he won full custody of me and that was in 1990, and my mother was mentally unstable and they STILL gave her join custody until she left me in a hotel dresser for two days, unbelievable.”

“In family court you can be found to have committed domestic violence without ever having a criminal trial, much less ever be convicted of anything. Lawyers routinely file for protective orders on behalf of their female clients as a maneuver to circumvent the entire custody process by “temporarily” awarding custody to the mother, and then judges will not change custody later because they don’t want to disrupt the child’s current situation. When my wife and lawyer filed a temporary protection order against me, it was done to obtain custody. There was no violence. When I went to court to “demonstrate why the order should not be extended” for a year, it was a complete kangaroo court. My wife and her lawyer didn’t have to provide a single shred of evidence that any violence had ever occurred, my lawyer wasn’t allowed to offer any evidence that questioned the claims by my wife and her lawyer, and I wasn’t allowed to speak. There was never any doubt the order would be extended. They extended the order, and at the top of the order it stated “this court finds that you committed domestic violence”.

So not only are fathers and their children being unjustly separated by corrupt family courts, but the court brands fathers as violent, whether they are or not. Family court is place that is neither interested in, nor conducive to justice or truth.”

I could post these alllllllll day.

My point is that men are dealing with odds stacked VERY hard against them being able to lay any kind of law down with authority these days. You and your old post-wall wife are fine I’m sure, you made it in before the cutoff. But guys in 2016 getting married to women raised in this 2016 FI-based culture and court system are taking insane risks listening to “just lay down the law brah” advice that pretends nothing has changed since in the last 20 years. They should be VERY aware of how laying down authority is tricky these days just like guys should be VERY aware of how to prevent Buyer’s Remorse in a worldwide instant social media age where before the internet it wasn’t as important.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 8:52 pm
Original Link

@Culum Struan
“It seems to me that YaReally and Sentient are both right. There’s no conflict – YaReally is right that the “base conditions” for men have worsened in the last generation for all the reasons he says. The RESPONSE to it is as Sentient says (and it has always been the response) – the proper application of masculine traits and qualities and leadership including in (but not limited to) parenting. It’s just that while doing that we have to be aware that the environment to exercise those qualities has become more hostile. But we still need to do it.”

Agree completely. My issue with the Sentient/SJF style handling of the topic is they keep acting like nothing has changed, which is DANGEROUS for guys to believe. It’s DANGEROUS for men like Big Al to sign a legal marriage contract thinking you can run a household the way guys did 20-40+ years ago in 2016’s frivorce false-accusation you-go-grrl-he’s-an-abusive-monster listen & believe the “victim” stacked family courts etc culture and these guys are sending young men to the tree with the nooses on it by pretending nothing has changed.

It’s like they were shooting guns in some lawless wild west and then gun laws were put in that make that significantly harder to do without massive consequences and they’re going “just run around shootin the place up, that’s what *I* do!” with no accounting for how society has changed or the punishments modern men are risking for that and refusing to even acknolwedge that shit has changed when literally the first half of this comment section is guys talking about all the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS changes that have happened in society. And Rollo’s article is literally about how things have changed. Ego-invested blindspots that will fuck guys like Big Al eagerly heading toward the noose up.

Society has changed. Everyone can see it. The old techniques are still what work but executing those has gotten SIGNIFICANTLY harder, if not impossible in a lot of situations, and refusing to acknowledge that will fuck men up.

@Rollo
Fucking lol Where to even start. This video is more entertaining to me, as a PUA:

Every “so how much are YOU going out and getting laid?” question has him either admitting he’s NOT and trying to rationalize it, or dodging the question in his wording to make general points about men who go out or girls in general (because he doesn’t want to full out LIE that he isn’t doing fuck all in pickup anymore and lose his “authority” to write Bang 2.0). And I can guarantee none of his followers will call him out on this…but if TYLER said he hasn’t been out in a year and he’s writing a game book etc? Those guys would be all over that shit lol

33:45: “What’s your approach to game nowadays? In which way has it changed since you wrote your BANG and DAY BANG? Do you still go out at night to meet women? Is indirect daygame still your favorite?”

For his answer he switches to complaining about women and how hard gaming is and what he teaches etc and avoiding talking about his actual “going out” because he doesn’t. Also notice the difference between Roosh and his defeatest attitude VS the RSD “take on the world” attitude…because actual PUA teaches you to overcome obstacles, like I’ve been saying about Mystery Method and learning in nightclubs. Roosh’s skillset was never good and he took the paths of least resistance so now that it’s trickier to navigate, he does what every dude who starts not getting the results he got when he was younger does, and LTRs up (most likely on her terms) out of fear of loneliness and lack of skillset and then just rationalizing their choice to sound like it’s the ultimate best idea ever.

Krauser will probably end up the same way because his system also isn’t designed for any kind of real challenge, it seeks the easiest path to the lay, so as Western culture takes over Europe he’ll find it harder and harder to run the type of game he’s running and probably check out too. I’m sure they’ll both use the “I’ve done it all boys, I’m a champ, read about my exploits as I milk cash out of you for my retirement” excuse but the reality is that they just weren’t equipped in game skill to deal with any real obstacles. You don’t get strong by lifting easy weights.

Meanwhile you got the RSD guys who give zero fucks about smartphone obstacles and shit and are just out there finding ways around that stuff instead of crying and bailing. Tyler Jeffy etc will retire I’m sure, I think Tyler Jeffy and Julien all have long-term girlfriends as it is, but like, they’ll be retiring from a VERY different place than Roosh is.

From Roosh’s mouth: “If a girl is a cunt, and you ask her what time the club closes she’s gonna give you a bad attitude, but if she’s OKAY, NORMAL, she’s gonna try to help you. So that’s how I screen girls…I ask them for some kind of help first and if they answer to that in a positive way, then I can proceed with some light game” This is literally “I can’t deal with any kind of obstacles or non-positive reception, so I just go out and ping for the easy layups” which again goes back to Krauser and his “No” girls where any girl who isn’t immediately receptive or shit-tests is a cunt bitch No girl lol

Meanwhile when you learn actual game and laugh at the concept of “No” girls:

Back to Roosh at 38:45 in his video: “I’d say the type of game I’m running now is relationship game” lolol “I don’t like a lot of that dread game stuff” “I dunno, I just want like, to find a way to be more in line with ME and be myself and just keep the girl.” lol

57:05: “How do you satisfy your sexual needs now that sex is not paramount in your life and the years of chasing women are over?”

“uhhh…I have….sexual intercourse…and uhhh…it’s good…..”

47:10:
“how many daily approaches (if you are still doing them) are you doing those days, roughly?”

“Zero. I’m doing zero man. It’s like…pfft…I mean, maybe I’ll find myself in a conversation in a club. But one thing that scares me (changes subjects to how his lifestyle involves interacting with zero women)”

Shocker. lol

“Roosh has really had a paradigm shift. He’s been monogamous for the last year? Did he move in with a single mother? Is he raising another guy’s children? What’s up with his eyes?”

lol dude’s body-language/subcomms are all over the map now compared to his old videos where he at LEAST spoke with authority/conviction. This is just standard “guy who LTRs up into monogamy and stops going out”. Tyler Julien Jeffy etc are still charismatic because they’re still picking up girls despite having a main one…but when you stop going out and interacting with women, you turn into this beta’ized hesitant second-guessing-what-you’re-saying lifeless drone worried that someone’s going to call you out on it. Like you can tell how little a guy interacts with women by his subcomms.

@hank
“Bitching on a forum isn’t going to solve any of this shit. Going out and challenging yourself will. And the only way to get over bitterness with women is to learn how to bring forth their best qualities and see them for the fun, bubbly sexy little girls they are.”

Solid post.

@Fred Flange
I probably would’ve been on meds too. Fortunately social conditioning was able to neuter my personality enough to be a docile little beta in class by high-school so no drugs required lol

@Blaximus
“This is something that really bothers me. The poor parenting thing is at epidemic proportions from what I can see, every damn where I go.”

On the plus side, here’s a more upbeat video that’s gone viral to balance out all the depressing shit I’ve posted:

This is great. Stay for the end where he has the father doing pushups and gives him a pep-talk too. If there were more of THIS, society might not be so fucked. But like, even THIS guy people are complaining because he brings religion into it and he mentions “being a BLACK man” instead of just “being a man” or even worse he’s not saying “being a PERSON” because GIRLS STRUGGLE TOO U KNO.

But like, how rare is this guy these days…a white dude who takes too much interest in helping young boys is labelled a pedophile. Most male spaces like this will have girls in them to make sure boys aren’t being TOO much like boys because toxic masculinity. Half these boys will probably go home to a single mom and watch bad social conditioning on TV and hang out with FI-brainwashed influences etc

That’s why this video got a million views, because it’s like “holy shit, this is so rare to see now”. And even this guy is one or two wrong words away from getting taken down by people who hate the idea of men teaching other men to be men.

But in the old days the lessons this guy is teaching these kids is probably shit you learned from your old man in your home or from a good strong male teacher who wasn’t terrified to lose their job by telling you to sit down and shut up and pay attention in class.

@just getting it
Like kfg says: “The basic purpose of basic training is to beat the alpha out of you, to make you submit, so that you look after your brothers in arms while doing what are told.”

I don’t really know what your question is though. If you mean organization in terms of group of like-minded dudes, most successful dudes tend to have mastermind groups of fellow like-minded guys on the same path who help guide eachother and work toward success for all of them. But if you mean organization like the army where you’re a drone following orders without question, I can’t see how you can really have your own mental point of origin there…you’re volunteering to subscribe to someone else’s (a superior’s) mental point of origin.

I wouldn’t give my place away on the Titanic. Society has stopped caring about the individual man, so why would I self-sacrifice for society? Now for my very close friends/family I would sacrifice…but like, some random person I don’t know? Can’t see a reason I’d get involved. I don’t know if that’s alpha or not, that’s just a logical reaction to an environment where I see white knights getting the shit kicked out of them for girls who give no fucks and still go home with the abuser lol

@Ajax @Roosh
“Roosh is shrewd, if nothing else. Dipak Chopra is living a pretty phat life reciting Rumi et al and I’m sure RV is well aware of this … his ROI for something that takes literally no up-front capital to pull off.”

It’s literally all he can do. He’s painted himself into a corner. Krauser is going to run into the same problem. They aren’t thinking far enough ahead. They’re going to gather their group of followers and then the second they stop going out, that’s it, that’s what they have to work with and milk money out of for the rest of their old age. And those people generally followed them FOR their pickup/macking content…no one started following Roosh for “spiritual guidance” lol No one is following Krauser to learn business success or workout tips or whatever. They’ve focused their entire career around being the pickup guys and only offering value through pickup, so when they stop doing it, they’re the same as me offering advice on religion and shit: no one gives a shit lol

Krauser will take longer to hit this wall because he’s based his marketing HARDCORE around calling other people out and talking shit, so he’s created a system where he won’t be ABLE to retire as easily as Roosh because he’ll get called out the same way he’s running around talking shit about everyone else right now. Hoist with his own petard and all. But he’s essentially burned the boats so he’ll be forced to stay in the game longer (which will be torture if he starts feeling the urge to have kids etc one day…there’s a reason I constantly point out that I’m open to the idea that I may want kids one day and settle under specific circumstances where the deck is stacked in my favor as much as possible or no longer care about the potential consequences (like if I’m 50+ and rich lol), I don’t want to be trapped by my own writing…Tyler’s done the same thing for years, talking about relationships for your current stage in life and priorities etc so he won’t come off as a hypocrite when he retires from pounding the pavement).

Whereas Roosh’s audience is 1) full of dudes LARP’ing who don’t actually go out (or go out and run his style of passive “see what girls are friendly to me and call any girl who isn’t immediately jumping on my dick a “cunt” and also fuck RSD and fuck Mystery Method those are for fags lolololz why aren’t I getting the results I want why do I have to keep bullshitting about my results on the forum I just dun get it!!111???”) who CAN’T call him out, and 2) guys still clutching to the unicorn ending fantasy because they haven’t fully swallowed the pill, same as Roosh, all hoping to find their magic EE/Thai unicorn who won’t cheat on them or, you know, think and act like a woman, so THEY don’t want to call him out because they want to believe in the fantasy too, and 3) the dudes who DO go out are too ego-invested in their reputation there and KNOW Roosh will delete/ban them for questioning him and the community will turn against them so THEY aren’t going to say shit even though they’re probably shaking their heads the same way we are, but their “be an alpha and say what you really think bro” LARP’ing only goes as far as “until, you know, it’s uncomfortable…” lol

Tyler was smarter about his career, right from the start he called RSD “Real Social Dynamics” instead of “Plow Pussy Inc” so he could have a wider range of areas to shift his company toward down the road, and he built a company full of new young dudes every few years who can continue to teach pickup FOR him keeping his business going when he retires and he’s purposely pushed to make friends with a bunch of upcoming self-development guys on YouTube so he can transition into other areas where he doesn’t ACTUALLY have any more real credibility than Roosh objectively-speaking, but he can at least give the ILLUSION of authority because he’s socially proofed by a bunch of other guys who are killing it in their own fields (fitness, business, etc). That’s why RSD is doing all these interviews with exercise dudes and business success guys etc, so they’ll be able to branch out down the road. Krauser and Roosh are running solo and now Roosh is in his mom’s basement making webcam vids and Krauser is one step away from that, while the RSD guys are flying around the world and living in a mansion running a multi-million dollar company full of a mix of youthful enthusiastic coaches and old-timers with “sage life wisdom” (who STILL go out and can get laid in the Ukraine in 6 months because they have game that isn’t based around the path of least resistance and “No” girls).

Without pickup all guys like Roosh and Krauser can teach once they stop going out and picking up new girls, is amateur/beginner-level theory in other areas and their audiences didn’t subscribe to them for that stuff ’cause there are a thousand other guys who can teach it way better. They’re going to end up in their late 40s/50s literally relying on what’s basically “welfare” or a Patreon type “beg for donations” system needing their devoted fans to support them long-term while they occasionally write books that they KNOW are full of theory bullshit because they haven’t been out in years.

And younger guys with better game are going to be writing books that break shit down better and are more up to date and take into account modern cultural/tech shifts, because those guys are actually going out and pulling new pussy.

Meanwhile these guys LTR up, backwards rationalize it trying to not alienate their fanbase after all their big talk about never settling or marrying, and put out these awkward webcam vids of them in some backyard where they look confused by the words coming out of their own mouths.


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 8:56 pm
Original Link

Oops image didn’t work. It’s the image version of this scene where Roosh is convincingly describing how awesome his sex life is:


YaReally
on August 3rd, 2016 at 10:56 pm
Original Link

@cheupez
“Good try. But the part where the boy cries and the dude tells him about “working through barriers”; that is a new one. In the old times there was no shit like that. A man hardly EVER cried. If he did, he did it alone behind a bush and hardly EVER admitted “doing it all the time” to anyone least to a bunch of kids.”

Yup. That’s part of the point. Even when we find someone teaching boys to toughen up, it’s couched in the FI and warped into crying all the time. But you could argue that his overall point is to not fight feeling shitty and to just accept it and express it in the right venue (like guys venting here about their problems VS complaining about them to their wives) so you can move past it and do what needs to be done.

So I can’t fault the message too much…I’d rather have that guy influencing my kid than this guy:


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 1:23 am
Original Link

@Colbert
Oh it’s awkward as fuck. But watch it all the way through and understand that the girl he walks off with at the end is the girl he reaches his hand out to shake hands with that’s off-camera when the set finally cracks. HE’s demonstrating not to let initial bad reactions and social pressure faze you. 99.99999% of guys would have given up somewhere in that first long awkward 5 minutes, probably after the first thing he said was ignored, guys would walk away.

But he just pushes through the “No” girl attitude/social pressure and the second one of them cracks (the girl who laughs finally), he capitalizes on that moment to then engage the set and introduces himself to the 3rd girl and uses her social approval to run the set. In the end her friends leave her with him (the little blonde with the accent is the one he introduces himself to when the set finally cracks and her friends have left her, aka he has isolation and pulls her).

The point to take away from it is that a lot of what guys think of as obstacles actually aren’t, and a lot of this “NO Girls”, “bitch-shield” “mean cunts who aren’t immediately receptive” is just guys prematurely ejecting from sets they COULD’VE gotten but ran away from the second the girls didn’t play along nice because their ego can’t take the beating that Max’s had to take through that whole cringe-fest.

Most guys take the path of least resistance and just go for the easy sets, and that’s fine, as long as you understand that’s what you’re doing and that it’s going to limit your skillset.

Which brings me back to why I posted it: Roosh and Krauser and the Manosphere/RVF/TRP in general run a very “just say hi and if she isn’t immediately friendly then she’s a cunt bitch No Girl and whatever Next that stupid bitch and find a better girl” type of game which, to me, isn’t really “game”, it’s just the spray ‘n pray numbers game. They’re not developing game skills that can handle much pressure testing…which is fine as long as all the girls they engage are nice and friendly and don’t shit-test them much. But it’s limited.

Roosh and Krauser have built their entire career/reputation on being able to get laid through their very passive “any girl who isn’t immediately friendly is a cunt” style of game, but as they get older the shit-tests are going to increase and the girls are going to be less immediately friendly and they aren’t really developing the skillset to overcome those obstacles because they avoid shit-tests and rejection and negative reception and bitch-shields etc (aka “pain”) as much as possible.

Whereas when Max is older, and he has years of pushing himself through this kind of pressure and dealing with shit-tests etc (and SUCCEEDING afterward), he’s not going to have any real problem still pulling when the girls aren’t quite as instantly receptive even if he gets old, fat, poor, whatever.

At 4:00 here’s another “awkward” approach:

She blows him off HARD and is super unreceptive at first. Most guys would bail or write her off as a No Girl or a bitch etc. But Max takes her on an insta-date because he’s used to dealing with obstacles. And he makes a good point at 5:55 about all the other guys staring at this girl but NONE of them will actually approach the girl they’d all LOVE to fuck.

But to not scare you off from pickup, at 7:55 below here’s the flip-side, where things go nice and buttery smooth and he just capitalizes on little windows of opportunity and can push the girl away and she’ll chase him etc (also lol at the taller guy getting denied by the girl’s friend every time he tries to touch her, while Max’s girl is grabbing his dick and then ditches her friend to go with him lol):

Point being that Max and what the RSD guys are doing and the training we recommend in PUA teaches guys to handle more than just easy situations with girls who are immediately receptive. So they’re going to be able to do pickup as long as they want pretty much.

But guys who’ve built their reptutation/business around running a limited version of game that relies on friendly happy instant positive reception (to the point where they fly to another part of the WORLD to find more receptive girls), when they get older and the shit-tests start increasing and the girls aren’t as immediately friendly, they start having more trouble getting laid and suddenly it’s “you know, actually this pickup stuff is so EMPTY, and girls are becoming cunty bitches, I think getting married and settling down is the NEW true path!”

…except all their subscribers bought into them thinking they were pickup gurus. How do you make money off your fanbase when you can no longer provide the content they followed you for? And any other area they try to transition into, their past will follow them…Roosh’s front-page rape-clubs, Krauser’s Hitler-esque rants, etc Who’s going to take life wisdom advice from a guy with a twitter feed like Krauser’s, aside from a handful of guys exactly like him (are they going to fund him? What’s he going to sell them to get money from them to pay his rent into old age?)? Who’s going to take religious/marriage/etc advice from Roosh besides his little fanclub when they can get pro-level teaching of that shit from any number of other sources without negative baggage attached to them? Is the RVF going to pony up enough for him to pay his rent when he’s 60?

Krauser actually pounds the pavement still, way more than Roosh probably EVER did, so he’ll be fine for a few more years, but he’ll follow the same path because his game is the same style (avoiding pain/obstacles/difficulty) and he’s purposely blowing up all his other options with his twitter persona…his results will slowly start drying up as he ages and he’ll blame anything that isn’t his game skills, then he’ll rationalize a way out of all the smack he’s talked about being a player forever and will probably try to reframe everything and sell books about his former adventures for as long as possible. I expect both of them to be fully monoLTR’ed up and writing books on “relationship game” within 5-10 years. Maybe “sugardaddy game” even, but I can’t see either of them making enough money past 50-60+ to even run that.

I’m not talking shit, I’m just pointing out objective observable nuances about their game styles and business models. They’re heading toward dead ends because they didn’t think far enough ahead. Maybe they have some master plans or maybe they make way more bank than it looks like and they both have huge stockpiles of money, but far as I can see, they’re pretty fucked.


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 3:41 am
Original Link

@Colbert
“grasping the idea that women want the alpha and not the beta and when they see beta they react a certain way. It’s like you develop the alpha characteristics and incorporate them to the point where those characteristics become congruent with who you are and that comes across and that is what women are looking for and respond positively to in the field (but it needs congruency to really “sell it”).”

This video should drive it home, Tyler shows infield vid of his beta buddy and him running the same stuff but the girls put his beta friend into a chode box and shame him for doing the exact same stuff Tyler does (which they LOVE):

@Johnycomelately
“It’s true mgtow are just one blow job away from the plantation.”

My problem with MGTOWs who refuse to learn PUA is that they keep dabbling with girls ANYWAY, except they’re like people who refuse to buy a dog, but end up going and playing at the dog park with them anyway while refusing to learn how to train and safely handle dogs lol Just playing a dangerous game.


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 4:08 am
Original Link

@Johnycomelately
“Are you familiar with Pook’s Anti Dump Machine?”

Never heard of it till now. Just skimmed it. Looks like the exact gay shit I’m talking about lol Just a bunch of pain-avoidance and spray ‘n pray. Complete opposite of what Mystery was teaching and what we were doing in the oldschool days. Dude is basically just looking for easy lay-ups and “NEXT”ing girls who aren’t interested.

Like Tyler said back in the old days: “You can’t NEXT a girl you haven’t FUCKED…that’s her NEXTing YOU.”

“Your take seems to be diametrically opposed, as the guru of all things game i’d love to hear your take on this. The way I’m seeing it Roosh and Krauser are effectively practicing the Anti Dumo machine.”

Ya they’re basically running that style. It’s just weak game that doesn’t really take into account how Attraction works. It’s not that it won’t work, guys have been getting laid since the beginning of time by just spray ‘n praying and hitting their head against the wall until they stumble into some girl who’s attracted to them by default, by fluke, and is hopefully not just an average 6.

But what Mystery Method and oldschool PUA was teaching was: Learn to purposely pro-actively Demonstrate High Value (and know what high-value IS, VS just throwing on a suit and hoping that works), so that MORE girls are feeling Attraction for you, and learn how to deal with obstacles and turn girls around and trigger Attraction in the “NO” girls that aren’t immediately receptive by understanding how to pass shit-tests and build your value so that those girls feel Attraction get triggered, then qualify them so that they invest and have to EARN your Attraction back, THEN finally show interest in them.

The ideal goal back then was that you should be able to approach 5 girls and turn those girls into 5 mLTRs…like that was the level of game to work toward, because we were learning how to turn unreceptive “NO girls” and girls other guys would “Next” (aka prematurely eject because their ego wasn’t getting enough positive feedback).

This other shit is just trying to avoid rejection/pain and crossing your fingers that whatever passive value you have (looks, suit, social proof, whatever) happens to be enough hopefully, and then hopefully she’s also just super friendly from the word hello. It’s massively low consistency in a culture like North America (VS being a foreign guy in some tourist hotspot in EE where the girls just walk around smiling with nothing to do but get stopped by PUAs apparently lol).

Here’s Jeffy on “maybe/no girls”:

“In my mind EVERY girl is a fucking maybe/no girl. Every girl is a maybe/no girl. Again if you’re only looking for the low hanging fruit that you go up and they’re like “OMG YOU’RE THE SHIT LEMME SUCK YOUR DICK”, you’re gonna have a difficult road to hoe, son. Every girl you go up to is gonna be fuckin skeptical. How do you do it? (watch the vid)”

Jeffy is 39 now and at 7:25 in that vid he talks about his current life. “Best year of my life so far. I’m in arguably the best shape of my life. My game is at its peak. But going into this summer I had misgivings about getting back into the game. Maybe I’m too old hurr durr. But I’m on the reg dragging girls half my age to a fucking van that looks like a murder van. Blew my mind. If you’re old there’s nowhere to go but up, you can do this till your dick falls off as long as you’re on your path. I’ve had times where I’ve had several months where I don’t get laid and I’m like “oh no what if I’m done” but try to look at the big picture, not the peaks and valleys.”

Compare his vibe with Roosh’s sad vibe lol Jeffy is still loving life because he’s got a skillset that allows him to overcome silly obstacles and developed solid internal frames and shit that the guys trying to avoid pain and ego-destruction don’t develop. You don’t get jacked lifting easy light weights…you have to break shit down to build it up stronger. So I don’t have a lot of respect for game styles that focus on pain-avoidance and just looking for the immediately receptive girls…to me that’s basically one step up from relying on online game or sugar daddy sites lol

But regardless of what I think of it, in terms of a business model for doing this stuff into old age: if you haven’t put yourself through the wringer in terms of facing social pressure and obstacles and shit-tests etc and you turn 40, a nice quiet LTR and no more approaching girls probably sounds pretty appealing since you aren’t really equipped to deal with adversity…but if your income is based around picking up girls…whoops, might be time to start planning an escape route.


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 5:03 am
Original Link

@Colbert @Johnycomelately
Here’s an oldschool example of Mystery dealing with non-stop shit-tests:

Again most guys would call this girl a “NO girl” or a cunty bitch bla bla and walk away. But nothing she does fazes Mystery. Even coming off robotic sounding it doesn’t really matter, girls aren’t thinking logically, they’re reading subcomms. They keep having a frame battle and Mystery just sticks to his training. When her friend comes in he starts ignoring her to win over the girl that other guys would view as “oh no an obstacle” and playing them off eachother, etc etc By the end this girl who’s been giving him shit is wearing his stupid fuzzy hat with a big ol smile and making out with him.

Here’s some new Mystery in-field…dude is 45 now and looks like an old melting lesbian tranny Caitlin Jenner:

But the way he talks about women VS the way guys like Roosh or guys in this comment section have talked about women, this is what hank holiday was talking about, finding ways to appreciate the good parts of women. Mystery clearly loves women.

Skip to 5:30 for the infield. Mystery, 45yo and looking like a burnt out trailer-park tranny, holds two young chicks in a nightclub. Watch the blonde one’s face and body-language the whole time…she’s attracted early on and gets more and more blatant about it over time. Watch her and her body-language and playing with her hair etc etc when he’s talking to her friend ignoring her and how she keeps trying to get his attention back. Mystery can spot all these iois but he’s not in a rush because the chase is half the fun (and the more the girl invests in the chase the less likely she is to flake etc) but he’s doing the same shit he was doing in the old days…gives the girl his glasses to wear once she’s giving enough A2, as a lock-in prop. He does takeaways, backturns, runs jealousy plotlines with giving her friend attention while ignoring her, he leads them outside where he eventually goes into comfort/rapport with them (with solid eye-contact), he makes himself the center of attention to build preselection with other girls there incase those girls don’t pan out. He constantly positions himself so that he’s got the girls both looking like they’re gaming him or captivated.

Ya, he’s got the height thing, but other than that he’s lost the rest of his looks and he’s dressed like a homeless person and clearly hasn’t been getting jacked, still a skinny beanpole lol He’s doing way more than he HAS to because he’s a performer and he’s shooting for solid pulls with girls “falling in love” with him VS just getting fast lays (personally I think older guys are better off learning to get the girl to chase/choose them VS being the predator type that a young Scray is, to avoid flaking and peer judgement and shit). Regardless though, he’s clearly having fun at a scary ol’ nightclub that other guys cry about though, and he’s 45 keeping the attention of young chicks effortlessly while other guys cry about how ADD club girls are and how it’s too chaotic and the music is too loud and the girls are all shallow stupid cunt bitches with big bitch-shields wah wah wah

Back inside he has another one and again he’s just doing the same stuff he was doing back in the day. DHV, social proof, push/pull, tease, slowly escalate kino, most of the time he’s laying back and letting the girl escalate on him. When they get into the hair touching stuff he does the fist-full of hair at her neck pull thing that you can tell turns her on and then he’s got this young chick jumping all over him like a squirrel feeling him up and playing with his hair and stuff (so even if he doesn’t get her, he’s got tons of preselection compared to James Bond pouty-face in the corner trying to look tough).

He even uses his classic “You have to explain to me why I love you.” line he’s been using since the old days before he takes her home (and she’s wearing his scarf as a tie lol) These girls are all looking at him like they’ve found the most interesting man in the world and he’s just some nerd with an old busted face who figured out chick-psychology.

And not a single drink in his hand all night (CULUM) lol

I’m posting these because 1) it’s awesome to see Mystery back out there doing his thing again finally lol and 2) to relate it back to the dealing with obstacles stuff, the reason Mystery can just float through this club fully engaging young chicks expecting to get Attraction and make them chase him and fall in love with him and take them home and shit is because he put himself through sets like that first video I linked where he had to overcome a bunch of obstacles instead of just writing the girl off as a cunt and running away to protect his ego.

And 3) it’s nice for the older guys here to see a dude who’s 45 gaming young chicks and just running standard Mystery Method, nothing real fancy, just having the basics down solid and following the system.

More recent Mystery infield but just a montage:

Hot blonde captivated by him at the start. Sitting in the grass with some people just telling stories engaging them. lol at whatever the fuck is happening at 1:00. At 1:52 it looks like the same blonde chick from the start so they’ve left the club together.


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 8:15 am
Original Link

@newlyaloof
“Jeffy seems to know his shit, but I don’t remember ever seeing him actually pull.”

He doesn’t have as much infield up as the other guys because I think he just hates working in general and does the bare minimum he has to (Tyler has to bug him to upload vlogs):

Also he’s in San Francisco which is full of uggos and SJWs and shit VS the other guys who game in LA and Vegas and Miami etc, so I doubt there’s much hotness worth capturing on video to inspire guys out there. But the dude drives a rape van around (google it) and has a Natural buddy that sometimes does interviews and offers insights from a Natural’s perspective and Jeff is often doing stuff that other guys wouldn’t try and pushing the knowledge-base about like, why DOES the rape van work exactly when every logical Blue Pill notion is that it terrify women (it’s SO over the top absurd that it creates a fantasy-land separate reality for the girl). He’s been focusing on online/texting game products the past few years but he travels all over to run bootcamps around the world and has to pick up and game girls in front of students all the time so you need a certain level of skill to be doing that. He’s got two Hotseats which are full of infield meet-pull-lay vids but I haven’t watched them.

I like him as an example of just a strong old guy frame. He gives ZERO fucks and embraces being older than the other instructors and he lays a lot of advice down with just blunt “quit being a faggot and do this shit I’m telling you to do already” authority. But he’s probably got the most uggos on his record out of everyone at RSD just from his location alone lol

@Culum Struan
“So what’s the point doing a bunch of approaches that aren’t particularly difficult anymore?”

Same place as hank holiday: able to open but not taking it anywhere. A better goal than 250 opens would be something like push every set to either a makeout or a “fuck off!!” Or push every set to isolation and qualify then go for the makeout. Or push every set to getting an inch away from her face lasering. Or push every set to leading them out of the venue.

Like, if you’ve got opening down, opening more isn’t going to do anything lol Push those interactions. Set goals that address the sticking points you know you have. “Going direct” is okay, but it’s partly ego-protection, it’s just jumping into the pool and crossing your fingers…it might work if you give off high-value by default, but why not just make a routine stack where once you open (situational or otherwise, whatever), you run the stack that DHVs and qualifies her and set yourself a goal that EVERY girl who passes a qualifier or two, you’ll try to isolate and go for the kiss.

That’s going to get you further than opening more lol

“I am going to MEMORISE a couple of routine stacks (personalised to my own stories, but still) and just fucking spit them at girls till they run away. Conversation? HA. I’ll show them CONVERSATION.”

Don’t just memories random-ass routines. FOLLOW A1-C1. Have routines that DHV, have qualifiers, have an SOI planned for when she passes your qualifiers, have a plan for how to isolate, have a plan for how to escalate into a makeout, etc

Don’t try to skip over A1-A3 lol Be smart about what you’re doing. If you don’t externally radiate high-value then going Direct is like, why would she care lol She MIGHT but it’s low consistency.

Next Blitz Week focus on opening for the first day/night just to shake it off and get back into it, and then focus on goals further along in the seduction. One GOOD set that you take all the way to isolation, makeout, and lead out of the venue is better than 50 sets where you just open and walk off with ego validation. πŸ˜‰

Another exercise is to force yourself to stay in set no matter how awkward it gets (unless she flat out tells you to fuck off) for 5 min. So your brain can’t eject on a high note and has to face the social pressure of staying in set. When you’re forced to stay in set your brain goes “well shit, we’re stuck in this set, maybe we should come up with a routine stack for this situation” lol

@India
I’ll give Lumpy a shout thanks for letting me know.

And props for getting out there. Enjoy the process, it’s a long slow one but as long as you go out and push yourself you’ll get better.

@redlight
“I feel that the need to defend YaReally here. Some people are going to say why is he talking about parenting and business models when he has no field experience at all in these areas”

lol I have friends from young to old, at various stages of life (single and tearing it up, single loners crying themselves to sleep alone, young settled dudes, old settled dudes, young players, old players, etc etc).

I get that for some of the guys here this forum might be the only time they’ll ever interact with a guy like me or hank or scray (aside from rolling their eyes at the local cock-sure young whipper-snapper who they chuckle to themselves condescendingly over). They’ve got their main crew of buddies similar to them in age range and position in life and life experience, and get the occasional report of what the kiddies are up to through their kids or parents like them or nights out where they don’t actually fuck anything <25, and this forum is the only place they'll really spend any significant amount of time engaging with guys way different from themselves from a totally different age range and life experience and walk of life talking about red pill shit.

And that's fine, it's all good. I'm glad they're here and we can talk. But I've met and known guys like most of you here for YEARS. Because I go out.

That's why I can keep blowing Blaximus' minds with insights that I KNOW he hasn't thought about deeply because I know guys just like him or guys with combinations of his same mindsets and traits and similar experiences, and why I can coach old-ass crotchety scribblerg through his existential crises, and why I get Scray's "JUST FUCK HER ALREADY" mindsets, and why Andy is frustrated with his situation, and why I have opinions on what raising kids is like and shit. You (meaning the overall metaphorical "you" of guys who think I have no idea what I'm talking about lol) think I don't have buddies who are parents?? You think I don't have buddies who are married, successfully (so far) and others in deadbedrooms?? You think I don't have buddies who've gone through every sad step Softek is going through with his chick? You think I don't have successful entrepreneur buddies and don't study experienced guys in other areas of life besides pickup? You think I don't have buddies of pretty much every race under the rainbow? You think I haven't hit up pretty much any type of venue you've hit up in your life at some point in all my years of going out? You think I haven't gamed "good girls" (who'd NEVER go to the bar!) in the daytime in bookstores and coffee shops and shit, and/or don't have friends who do that? You think I haven't hung with different cliques and crowds and personality types and hung with guys spanning the gamut from poor trashy fucks to rich doctors and lawyers and entrepreneurs? You think I don't have divorce-raped buddies? You think I don't have MMA buddies and haven't hung out in biker bars? You think I don't have girls I've banged or have been friends with or meet regularly that are your daughters' age who fill me in on their lifestyles (that they don't tell their dads about) and guys your sons' age who aren't doing the same shit your sons are doing? You think I haven't read/watched/studied books/videos/articles by guys in these different categories? You think as a PUA community we haven't watched all these PUAs trying to run various business models and seen which ones tank hard and why? You think we haven't seen PUAs go off the deep end and PUAs prosper and can't tell the difference between them?

And that's just ME, that's not even accounting for the hundreds of thousands of other PUAs out there doing the same shit and comparing notes. I don't have to write a bunch of eBooks about Banging Iceland girls while picking fights with Feminists to get my rape-support-club front-page news to know that THAT shit is going to lead to a dead end career-wise if you don't have a backup plan lol And I don't have to raise a kid to read about masses of other guys' experiences with family courts and divorce courts.

I mean, c'mon lol I've been going out for YEARS with the express purpose of building massively deep rapport with strangers from all walks of life. I sit down at a bar for a burger and next thing I know I'm chatting with the old dude beside me as he vents to me about how his wife is cheating on him and he's staying with her because of the kids and has a mistress he's meeting tomorrow and tells me he feels like he's known me forever and wants to keep in touch because I gave him some advice that helped connect some dots for him. I wake up at a college chick's place while her roommates cook us all breakfast and pick their brains about what they got up to the night before while we all hang out and I hear about their adventures and the drugs and sex and booze and drama and lol at it before I thank them for the meal and fuck off home. I can tell you the old foreign ESL guy running the late night food place up the street is doing his dream job and loves cooking the type of food he makes and writes music in his spare time because it's his other passion and he misses his wife that he had to leave back home with the kids to get set up here for them to come join him hopefully soon. I'm not just hanging out with guys exactly like myself, oblivious to the rest of life.

Now I don't know everything about everything…but I know a shitload more outside of just "what guys similar to me doing pickup experience" than a lot of guys would expect. I just like to focus on pickup here because the other stuff isn't as relevant or interesting to me right now and I'm not here to share my personal life and be BFFs with everyone and talk about my job or what's going on in my friends' lives.

I'm just here to help guys sharpen their pickup skills and report what we see out there happening infield when you're actually sticking your dick in the <25yo crowd instead of theorizing or talking about a culture that has warped beyond recognition in the last 10-15 years.

And what I can report from the field is that I've met a depressing FUCKLOAD of guys like this guy out there (dude is literally choking back tears at 9:00 just trying to articulate what he's dealing with internally):

First reply to him in the comment section is of COURSE: "Once you start producing cash pussy will start flowing, women want money and even better if you have the looks, women want both things money attached to good looks."

Perfect. Now when he gets money and a good career and his subcomms STILL make him unattractive to women, he can have ANOTHER complex and MORE frustration that he SHOULD have a girlfriend but can't get one while no one can explain to him what his real problems are and give him a set of exercises and tools for how to fix them.

This is a guy that I could take out sarging for a month and he'd be well on his way to being fixed. But he's got no one to help guide him. And he'd be shamed for checking out PUA resources. And the TRP will just tell him to monk mode it up and make money etc don't read that silly Mystery Method fuzzy hat PUA pussy-beggar nonsense. And why would he listen to a guy like me anyway? According to the Red Pill community as soon as he gets money he'll have looks AND money and the pussy will just fall from the sky.

And hey according to the guys who got married before smartphone/Tinder culture, he should take that fork in the road and marry the girl he's totally capable of judging as high-quality, 'cause as long as he's got looks and money he'll be attractive and everything'll work out just fine for him as long as he isn't some pussy who's worried about legal reprocussions for divorce rape or false accusations when he lays down some laws his wife or kids aren't haaaaaappy with.


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 9:48 am
Original Link

No matter how many stories I hear like this from guys like this it never stops being depressing:

This kid’s got a lot of the “theory” down. He’s read the basics and “gets” some of the hows and whys of what’s going on and says all the talking points he’s read about biology and how women have changed bla bla. But he has no instruction/guideline for how to APPLY anything or take charge of his life and just talk to girls and people around him and start building friends and social circles and interacting with women to get a girlfriend.

Figure hearing a kid like this who looks like this talk about his experiences with women is good for discussion. Also note how many of his excuses are the same excuses some of you new guys make…even a guy that looks like THIS feels like he’s “intruding on people” by opening them. He probably looks better than a lot of us, but he feels like he has no value and actually has NEGATIVE value to others.

These are the guys no one gives a shit about or writes off as outliers, but they’re SO common these days. They see his looks and think “whatever bro, you can get pussy if you WANT” but he has no idea how. Or they send him chasing money, cars, mountain-climbing, a better career, a fitted suit with matching pocket-square, etc

But realistically picture this kid’s life down the road: right now girls don’t actually approach him, not in any way he can read or interact with. He has no idea how to approach and is just hopelessly waiting for something to happen. Who’s going to influence this guy? It looks like he’s out of college so he’s going to have no one knocking on his dorm door for a keg party or invite him out to the bar. He has no job right now so he has no co-workers, no real friends etc to drag him out. Does he have the mindsets to be able to resist women and actually be MGTOW? Fuck no.

What girl is going to get this guy? Some aggressive 6, a gold-digger, a BPD chick who he stays with out of scarcity. He’s not going to have some gorgeous 9 approach him and even if he DID he doesn’t have the internals to date and keep her.

With his shitty girl he ends up with that made all the moves and took advantage of his low self-esteem (how can it be low?? He’s JACKED!! I heard lifting weights automatically builds high self-esteem and entitlement and makes you a pussy magnet!!), is he gonna be able to resist the social pressure to get married? Fuck no. Is he going to be able to make a marriage work and run it like Blaximus or Sentient? Fuck no. He’s going to get OBLITERATED and end up a sad story on a relationship forum somewhere asking wtf happened.

This kid is 22, he’s going to go through like 60 years of his life starting where he is now. Will he change? Who knows, hopefully he’ll stumble across PUA (except that MGTOWs demonize it and turn men away from it)…but more likely he’ll just become another guy that could’ve been helped.

And if his videos went viral he would be shamed and doxxed and labelled a misogynist for spouting red pill MGTOW talking points and basically have his life ruined all because he was so frustrated and looking for answers that he vented on the internet with no idea what potential repercussions that could have in 2016.

@Sentient
“AWALT, always AWALT. Unless your W is from the “old set of books”. Then NAWALT. Any trouble check your warranty date fellas.”

I’ve explained it to you a thousand times and a thousand times you still haven’t grasped it so I’m going to try as few words as possible this time:

1) WOMEN = WIRED THE SAME.
2) SOCIETY = DIFFERENT.
3) SOCIETY AFFECT PEOPLE.
4) DIFFERENT SOCIETY MEAN WOMEN AFFECTED DIFFERENTLY.
5) DO BRAIN UNDERSTAND VERY SIMPLE CONCEPT NOW?

“If you got lucky and married in the 1990’s, 2016 divorce law is completely inapplicable to your situation. 2016 courts will not hear your wife’s case.”

Your wife will have significantly less social conditioning from childhood normalizing frivolous divorces and divorce rape. Just like a guy raised in a highly religious household where sex is shamed will be less comfortable being sexual than a guy raised at the Playboy mansion. DOES SIMPLE CONCEPT MAKE SENSE TO OLD MAN?

“is not a target for Eat Prey Love unhhaaaappy Old Set Of Books wives”

Is your wife a smokin hot 21yo with a Tinder account full of dozens of orbiters txting her daily? Or is your wife a post-wall woman who’s had kids and will be entering menopause soon and probably won’t do better than being with you?

“Only newly married guys with no income or assets are at risk of divorce rape…”

No, you’re at risk too. But you’re at less risk than guys getting married in 2016 culture, because girls and guys grew up accepting guys like Blaximus laying the smack down on crazy chick drama in his era, just like he’s explained and you repeatedly dismiss, whereas now enforcing authority is much riskier, especially with a legal noose around your neck.

“Feminist culture is rampant and empowering all women all the time, except your Old Set of Books wife is impervious to it…”

20 years of “that behavior is bad” + 10 years of “that behavior is good”, is not equal to 30 years of “that behavior is good”. Do you math?

“No mid 40’s women are divorcing because they are soooo old and sooo wrinkly.”

Do you think there are more women initiating divorces now or in 1940?

“There are unending streams of hungry betas showering cash and attention on fat uggos 24/7 but mid 40’s women never get any attention from anyone”

Does your wife have a Tinder account? Or is it safe to assume that mid-40s married women are less likely to be on Tinder engaging those hungry betas showering cash and attention on women?

“All those 40 and 50 and 60 YO guys are super alpha banging 17 YO strippers…”

No idea what this is about. Are you off your meds?

“Setting a strong frame is required for PU artistry… ghosting, nexting, passing shit tests is where it is at. But you are impossibly bad ass if you enforce your frame the same ways in your LTR.”

Ghosting, nexting, and passing shit-tests is easy when you aren’t legally or financially tied to the woman, and don’t have kids with her. Do you disagree that there will be less consequence for me not calling or ever seeing a girl I had sex with one time, than there would be if you simply didn’t come home or call your wife ever again?

I know, I know, the whole “logic” thing is hard to process, but just try for a second to answer any of these questions. Which you won’t. You’ll just say “STRAWMAN LOLOLZ” and change subjects, like you always do, and then re-ask the same questions again, like you always do.

“Cops will do nothing if they come to your house at your wife’s request in 2016, as long as you can show them that 1990’s marriage license date. Actually they will slap your wife and tell her to make you sandwich or face jail time for calling them out.”

A person raised in a culture where Behavior A is not common, is less likely to engage in Behavior A than a person raised in a culture where Behavior A is celebrated and rewarded and encouraged. Do you disagree with basic human psychology?


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 10:06 am
Original Link

@Sentient
Ya, Papa handles the finances and office stuff etc, Tyler handles the marketing and public side of everything, and they both direct RSD toward wherever they want it to go.

Papa’s running a “how to be a successful entrepreneur” thing now:

Dude’s been married for a while and has pretty much never appeared on video till now so he has super lame nervous subcomms right now lol

But ya, thanks for posting RSD’s advertisement and showing off Papa’s house? lol


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 10:12 am
Original Link

lol’ed at this guest, I haven’t actually watched any of these:


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 11:54 am
Original Link

@Sentient
“Love the snarky inflection too, though at mid 30’s it is starting to get long in the tooth Ya?”

It’s definitely getting old, it would be a lot easier if you were able to keep up with simple logic.

“Ummm ok… what is the half life of “society”? Is today society or did that stop at some point?”

Pre-Internet and pre-social media is a lot different than post, as I’ve said repeatedly before.

“It will come as a shock to her, since her mother frivorced her father in 1978, when she was 10.”

Does “less common/encouraged” = “never happens” to you?

“Now it will come as a real shock to about half of her friends whose parents were divorcing like mad in the late 70’s and early 80’s”

Yes, it WOULD be a shock if I had said it never happened instead of saying it was less common. But you can dig out the divorce statistics yourself to compare the divorce rates then VS today if you like.

“Oh wait, let’s loop back to your point 2) Society = different, and just soak some of this nostalgia in…”

Today I learned that in the 80s women had Tinder, Amy Schumer was making movies glorifying shitty behavior, Open Hypergamy was a thing (I don’t know why Rollo wasted his time writing about Open Hypergamy when it’s been as blatantly promoted and in our faces as it is now, all this time, he really should have consulted you first), etc etc etc

“but you said once kids are out of the house they are on Molly at a minimum and taking cock at EDM festivals?”

No, I said kids going to EDM festivals are on Molly at a minimum and probably taking cock at said festivals. C’mon grampa, put your bifocals on so you quit misreading.

“That Society will ensure it today”

Does “more likely to” = “guaranteed to” to you? You really have a problem with this whole “nuance” thing, hey? That must be where the disconnect is. If I say I have a blue lollipop, do you interpret that as me saying ALL LOLLIPOPS ARE BLUE FOREVER ALWAYS AHHHHHHHHGHGHHGH? Because that’s the pattern you’re displaying.

“Are you saying that #parenting and imparting values will have an effect on your kids?”

Yes. And I’m saying it’s more difficult to lay down solid parenting when you’re legally in a noose and society is painting “parenting” that was acceptable in the past, as “abuse”.

“Eh. Not your best work… at least be funny.”

Why bother? You’re not answering any of my questions, just like always.

“Are smoking hot 21 YO tinder girls pulling all the EPL frivorces now?”

I dunno, you tell me, here’s the first basic google search:

http://www.maselliwarren.com/2014/03/20/divorce-rates-increase-youre-25/

“60 percent of marriages for couples between the ages of 20 and 25 end in divorce.”

Whoops, shit, sorry, did I drop facts and data in here? My bad, continue with your rant.

“Isn”t it a central tenant of FI Point 2) Society that all women can always do better?”

Yes, but eventually the Tinder messages slow up and women who didn’t grow up with Tinder on their smartphones in high school are less likely to be posting bathroom titty selfies on Snapchat.

“Because guys laid the smack down [basically just bs hyperbolic wording for “guys said no”] girls accepted it.”

Right, you finally understood a simple sentence, you get a cookie!

“Guess what has changed about guys… go on… you were just saying how emasculated your competition was…”

When society labels masculinity as toxic and punishes men for displaying it and punishes them for “saying no”, espeically when they enter legal contracts enforcing that, it makes it harder for them to say no. Do you disagree with this basic common sense?

“This is not a math problem… is it true women live in the moment or not?”

The women are irrelevant. It’s the family and divorce courts that matter. Ask any guy who’s been arrested for a false domestic violence accusation how relevant his woman living in the moment was as the cops took him away in cuffs because legally they’re required to.

“Non sequitur. But you may like this chart viz 1980’s…”

Wow, nice chart! A funny thing happens when you overlay the marriage rates though…you know, using HONEST data instead of cherry-picking:

Well look at that…marriage rates plummetting, but I’m sure that couldn’t have an effect on the number of divorces possible…oh wait, logic.

“No she doesn’t… how many comments will flow in “yeah she duz dood…. they all do!” LOL”

No, I fully believe that she doesn’t. Because she wasn’t raised with social media as a normalized part of her life as early as junior high and she’s post-wall and has no doubt felt the pain of less male attention in general and knows she’s probably not going to find better than you on Tinder.

“I’m learning that there are no 40-60 YO single guys or those that are would never look to engage a mid 40’s woman…”

Again I have no idea what you’re talking about here. This is some random tangent. I haven’t said anything about 60yo single guys. wtf are you talking about.

“cuz you know they are so alpha they just hit the hotties… LOL”

Same thing, no idea what you’re talking about. I haven’t talked about 60yo single guys being alpha macking hotties. Are you arguing with someone else?

“Do you disagree”

Didn’t answer my questions, shocker.

“that holding your frame is equal to holding your frame, regardless of the particular tactical application, the effect on female behavior is equivalent?”

I’ve repeatedly said the effect on female behavior is the same, so has Culum in his summary of our points. But men are risking way more by trying to hold their frame now compared to the past. There’s a reason that male teacher won’t touch the girl punching him.

“Yeah the same one Tyler said was his in the other video. LOL”

Tyler and Papa have actually never said the place is either of theirs, I’m the one that said it lol Looks like it’s just the Vegas Immersion mansion that they use to host students and instructors teaching months-long Vegas bootcamps. But Tyler and Papa have their own places outside of that that I’d be aren’t “their mom’s basements”. I dunno what your point is though, it’s one more mansion than most of us here probably have and they’re pretty clearly not hurting for money lol

“Just a fact that Kho has done a shit ton of heavy lifting behind the scenes to make RSD a viable business”

If you’re implying Papa did all the work, feel free to give this a watch:

Here’s Tyler on networking and general entrepreneur stuff (everyone’s favorite Tai Lopez makes an appearance):

Tai Lopez is a tool, but he generally seems to promote pretty positive messages (lots of just repackaged common sense stuff of course, I wouldn’t pay for any of it) and it looks like he’s having fun with life…I don’t think many guys would mind having his lifestyle lol

If Tyler ever wanted to make a TV show like Mystery did, Tai’s connected to guys like Larry David:

These dudes are all working together to boost and promote eachother. I’m no business wizard but it seems like a better long-term success/financial strategy than Roosh and Krauser’s “me VS the world” approach.

“Point being here is an Asian guy with an MBA who methodically created something from a lot of chaos.”

If you think a business can flourish into a million-dollar company without good marketing, I dunno what to say lol I mean, what’s the point of your tangent exactly? It sounds like you’re just trying to discredit Tyler’s work for some reason. Are you just taking pot-shots at anything you can reach for because you’ve run out of strawmen and flawed charts?


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 12:07 pm
Original Link

@Rollo
“All his “indirect game” jargoneering sounds almost word for word what Paul Elam was telling him in the interview he did with Roosh. Too many crazies to risk anything but being indirect, need plausible deniability, etc.”

I actually don’t entirely disagree with him. Like, those are legitimately things to consider in 2016 (running hardcore escalating direct sexual game in your office is a lot riskier than running indirect game for a blatant example…you’re not going to end up slandered on social media for a girl being attracted to you and chasing you VS you aggressively running direct sexual game on her, etc) and indirect game does lower the risk of a lot of it.

But ya, it’s just the usual “MY style is DIFFERENT” marketing that anyone else does. Maybe Roosh will play up the like, “this is the only SAFE way to game” angle and write a new book etc But it’s going to be all just theory nonsense because as you say:

“all cop outs for non-interaction when the truth is he’s been with some (likely single mother) woman exclusively for over a year and he is either unable or unwilling to interact with women because of it.”

I want to believe so bad it’s a single mother because that would be hilarious but I can’t imagine he’d go that low lol I choose to believe the kid in the video is just some neighbor kid, like he’s in an apartment complex or something. A single mother would be the funniest shit ever.

“You’re right, he’s trying to scrape together whatever he can of (what’s left of) his former credibility in preparation for going Tucker Max in the near future. He’s following the Script to the letter:”

He HAS to. Just like Krauser will have to. They didn’t plan for leaving themselves ways out of the lifestyle without destroying their credibility and their credibility is the only reason their fans currently support them. Tyler has planted the seeds of “hey man, at some point you might decide settling down is right for you and you have to make relationships for your current phase of life” etc etc so when he retires from the game it’ll be like “ya, that’s a thing we all knew was going to happen, he never railed against it the way Roosh does, this is just the next evolution of his life” and he won’t get backlash.

Like Roosh trying to suddenly teach religion and shit is just funny, it’s like if I had to scrape together a business presentation by noon on a topic I had just started reading about that morning.

“Next he’ll be getting interviewed as a “former PUA who’s finally seen the light and goodness of women and settled down to renounce his former bad boy persona.””

It’s funny because at first I thought he’d try to put a spin on it, like still bitching about how shitty women are but that his system of finding the unicorn is the one true path to enlightenment etc

But if you listen to his video every time he hates on women he drops in “I mean, not MY girl but…” and little “she snoops on my videos and stuff” Like, he’s already self-censoring, scared to offend her and worried she’s going to be mad and shit. Super badass Neomasculine PUA right there lol HAPPY WIFE HAPPY LIFE AMIRITE?? So he may HAVE to go the women are wonderful route to avoid drama from his girl, which is hilarious because that’s the direct opposite of everything he’s said and done and taught for years.

I hope his hamster has been working out ’cause it is in for a fucking whirlwind.

I just don’t understand how they didn’t have a longer-term vision for themselves. I LOVE pickup way more than Roosh but even *I* accept that I might at some point want to settle and have various plans and outs for if that day comes and my career is completely unrelated to this area and I don’t put up pickup vids etc


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 12:56 pm
Original Link

@Sentient
“Actually IRL I’ve founded and run two… if you have value you don’t need much marketing or any good marketing. Just saying”

lol what even is this you’re writing? Are you having a dick-measuring contest with RSD now? “oh, you had to MARKET, did you? That’s funny, MY products are simply superior so I didn’t have to do any of THAT” lol Like what are you even posting right now with this whole tangent?

Or is this all just to distract from your flawed charts and all the questions you won’t answer etc so you can ask me the same questions for me to explain over and over to you yet again lol

“This here. You would think this because this is how you think…”

I think it because you’re vague and bringing in random tangents. If you’re just posting Papa’s bio for fun, that’s cool, welcome the RSD fanboy train I’m always happy to see their content posted to help guys lol But it would sure be nice if you’d answer some of the questions I’ve tossed your way that you keep avoiding.


YaReally
on August 4th, 2016 at 11:56 pm
Original Link

@Kayos
Yup, that’s about right. Really Sentient and I agree on literally everything except that when I say “laws and society have changed to where “being masculine” is often viewed as abusive and punished, and “frivolously using the court systems when you’re an unhaaappy woman/child” is encouraged, a very blatantly obvious and observable trend that pretty much everyone but Sentient agrees is happening all around us, suddenly the dude loses his fucking mind and starts throwing out “OH I GUESS NAWALT THEN EXCEPT OH NO WAIT SOMETIMES ITS AWALT LOLOL LOOK AT YOU STRAWMANNING LOLOL OH I GUESS YOU’RE SAYING NO ONE HAS EVER GOTTEN DIVORCED BEFORE SMARTPHONES????!!?!” lol

My best guess on his issue so far is that when I imply that things were easier back in the day with a different generation of women raised in a different culture with different values etc compared to now, he takes it as some kind of ego-attack like I’m implying he’s not a Super Alpha Badass Ninja (who’s now ALSO a genius running 2 multi-million dollar businesses without doing a single minute of marketing of course lol) because things were “easier” compared to now and he has to flip his shit and deny blatantly obvious reality because god forbid the kid who got the high score in a videogame on Normal Mode doesn’t impress people as much when everyone else is now playing on Hard Mode.

It’s okay Sentient, you’re still a super badass❀

And then he throws in this type of feel-good nonsense lol:

"because the FI has built in its own destruction via its rapaciousness, it is already beaten."

Oh, okay, hey Sentient could you tell Tim Hunt, the UVA Frat, Paul Nungesser, Jian Ghomeshi, and this girl (who seems pretty convinced that nothing bad is going to happen to her and dares the guy to call the cops on her because she's 100% sure the court system is on her side as she threatens him with "you don't know who the fuck you're messing with right now" and takes his keys and damages his car etc):

And that guy was lucky as fuck that he got this on video, much like this guy (the girls had no consequence btw, there's "not enough evidence" to charge the girls with):

And everyone in this thread:

“This. This happened to me a lot. Except she would take swings at me, and you can’t fight back. Ever. If you hit her back you’re the bad guy and going to jail. If she comes at you with a knife and you bruise her wrist getting it away from her, you’re going to jail. I still freeze up with rage every time I think of the phrase “I’ll tell the police you hit me and nobody will believe you.” I swear if I ever hear another woman say that to me again I will kill her on the spot. I’ve heard it from my mother, my sisters, my ex, and a psycho female sailor when I was in the navy. And it always works out like they say it will. Every. Fucking. Time. Never again”

“I wish I could have bailed. My lawyer explained to me how screwed I’d be if I left because of my state’s divorce laws, and I would be less able to protect our sons from her abuse. She is bipolar, on medication, and depressed now”

“Basically if I went to my home (jointly owned with my ex wife) and say hello, drop off milk, etc. Then leave. All my ex had to do is ring the cops and say I threatened her. Instant 30 days in jail. No proof needed. No right to reply. Only from female to male. Can also be “reported” by a third party; such as the dead shit she cheated on me with. Have not been “home” in a year.”

“I’ve been arrested three times because of this. I’m sorry but this isn’t true. Once I showed the police my bruises and they told me they were “defensive” and that I got them from her trying to defend herself from me. They will never believe the man.”

” my sister came home from a friends hen night severely drunk at about 11pm. She got into a massive argument with my mother because it was late and she was sat in bed with the television in full blast while myself and my mum had work the next morning.

My sister went fucking berserk and threw an iron through the class conservatory door and was threatening to burn the house down. To avoid the situation escalating I phoned the police and then spent five hours in the police station being questioned, while simultaneously being told that, “you should not have gotten yourself involved in the argument, you’re the man of the house and you’re an intimidating presence,” or some absolute bollocks. This, despite me having done literally nothing but stay in my room and phone the police to the sound of glass shattering and my sister shouting.

You can be sure i will not be trusting the fucking police with any domestic issues with a female involved, because that one experience demonstrated the outcome of doing so. What happened to my sister? Nothing, by the time the police had turned up, she turned the waterworks on, babbling and falling over herself crying and apologising to my mother that I must have seemed like the next best thing to point the finger at.”

“That was until the night after they broke up. She came to my apartment, where my friend was currently staying, screaming and threatening both of us. I told her I would call the cops if she didn’t leave. She demanded to have a private conversation with “her boyfriend”, so they both stepped outside. The door was open, but I wasn’t watching. Next thing I know he’s in the kitchen with a red mark on his cheek calling the cops. Says she hit him in the face and refuses to leave.

I thought “man that bitch going to jail.” Nope. First thing the cops did was talk to her. Then, without even talking to him, they put my friend in cuffs. She claimed he grabbed her and she only slapped him to get away. He claimed she punched him after he told her he thought she was a crazy bitch. Cops said in a he said she said domestic situation they default to the male. She dropped charges so he was out 2 days later. Shits fucked up.”

“Same thing happened here. The system is so biased it’s incredible. Even when she admitted to the cop what happened he wasn’t interested in arresting her, only cared what they could get on me.”

And hell, here’s a few more:

(“Why did you throw me out?????” Imagine this dude didn’t luckily happen to be recording):

(stay tuned for 8:00 in where she comes at him with a hammer):

(I don’t get it, this guy is saying no to her, why isn’t she just submitting to his masculine energy??):

(zero fear whatsoever of his badass masculinity ’cause she knows society will take her side as she goads him):

…so ya, you wanna tell them all that the FI is already beaten? Spout them some of your feel-good LARPing nonsense about how masculinity always triumphs over femininity? I’m sure they’d be FASCINATED to hear it your thoughts lol

@hank
Good shit. Pay attention to the pattern that the sets you eject from are the ones that are going decent or aren’t going bad, and the ones you’re staying in are the ones that are going bad lol Slight ego-protection going on there in your brain…like you’ll re-open the green hair girl until she hates you and lol to yourself, but when you’re chilling with the chair girl or talking to the piercings girl it’s like “WELL BYE!!!!” instead of running those sets to the ground like the green hair girl. The iois you think were iois were definitely iois lol

@Blaximus
“Women are practically encouraged to divorce at the first sign or trouble of Unhaaapppyyyy. Women are encouraged to exercise their ” rights ” to abort your kid, and the courts fully support that decision. Women are encouraged to not stand for domestic abuse – including harsh words spoken too loudly that hurt her feelz.”

This. Girls ping off their environment for how to feel. Witness the many cases of girls who’s friends CONVINCE them they’re being abused or were raped etc You’re not just dealing with the girl one on one or her and her two friends anymore, you’re dealing with an entire culture thanks to social media and the internet. When she goes onto reddit to say “hey my husband raised his voice at me” she will have 500 people telling her “OMG GET OUT GURL!!!!” When she’s unhaaaaappy her “you go girl”-raised girlfriends who AREN’T under your badass masculine influence 24/7, will tell her to eat pray love and find a better man who isn’t emotionally abusive and controlling. When you take your daughter’s iphone away she’s got friends like the girls in the videos I linked above that she’s going to for advice on how to get her iphone back and what to do with her angry feels toward you.

Don’t worry Sentient, you’re still a badass, we’ll pretend Normal Mode is the same as Hard Mode and nothing is different in society and changes in society don’t have any influence and all these social influences are easy to overcome if you just be a badass, to soothe your precious ego lol


YaReally
on August 5th, 2016 at 12:38 am
Original Link

@Junior
You’re setting off radars.

Get sneaky and sarge all the potential cockblocks first to disarm them in advance so you have group approval before engaging the hot one that you want.

Disqualify yourself with an opener about your girlfriend (later on if you can get to the hot girl you can always say you were just making shit up so her friends wouldn’t try to cockblock you and she’ll lol).

Opening with a girl on your arm works as a disqualifier as well as preselection (they don’t know if she’s your girlfriend or whatever, but you’re clearly more “safe” than the solo guy coming up to mack their hot friend ’cause you already have a girl)

Merging sets forward helps disarm and keep you from looking predatory…open an easier set beside them and then just bring them into the conversation casually VS doing an actual direct approach of their set. Check out the Julien video I linked earlier in this thread where he merges sets, and the Max videos in this thread where he’s grabbing random girls at the mall to introduce them to eachother etc

Basically find ways to disarm the group…if you can’t win them over, you aren’t getting access to their hot friend. So your goal right now isn’t “how do I get the hot girl in that group”, your goal is “how do I get these friends of that girl, who are keeping their back turned to me, to love me? What strategies can I employ to make these friends of hers more receptive to me?” Focus on how to open the door to the fridge that’s stuck closed, VS what to do with the food inside the fridge…if you can’t get that door open the rest doesn’t matter.

If you can find the old Mystery Method DVDs (torrent), look for his explanations of Group Theory ’cause hearing him describe it is better than text in my mind, but otherwise go here:

http://www.pdfarchive.info/pdf/T/Th/The_Mystery_Method_The_Venusian_Arts_Handbook.pdf

And skip to the “Group Theory” section. I’d cut and paste it but it comes out all chopped up.

Pay attention to his strategy of winning the friends over first and disqualifying yourself with the target pro-actively to help disarm them…a neg isn’t JUST to make the girl feel self-conscious bla bla, it’s also a signal to the group that you aren’t that impressed or into her yet, so the friends don’t have to be as on their guard. Same as a disqualifier…if I have a hot blonde in my group and you come up I’m going to assume you’re trying to take her. If the first thing you say is something about how you’re only into brunettes, I’m going to be a lot more relaxed about you engaging our group because you’ve disqualified yourself as being interested in my hot blonde friend. Show me some interest and give me good feels so I like you and I’ll be a lot easier for you to get me to leave you and my blonde friend alone because I like you and you’ve disqualified yourself so why would I be all protective of her and cockblock? Then you can qualify her (since you’ve shown a bunch of value winning me and the rest of the group over) and let her win you over (“beauty is common, what else do you have going for you? Oh really you do X? I LOVE girls who do X…we shouldn’t even be talking, I have to go, you’re trouble for me (push/pull etc)”) and when things ramp up you can either confess that it was a lie like a cheeky rascal or you can let her actually think she’s the one exception to your “no blondes” rule (age, the type of clothes she’s wearing, etc, you can disqualify on anything, and you can disqualify yourself instead of disqualifying her like oh no I’m too old for you or oh no I’m dressed like a bum tonight you should stay away from me etc).

Remember that what Max is doing where he just rambles is just one way of approaching things. There are a MILLION ways to DHV, false-disqualify yourself, strategize like the stuff I listed above, etc to disarm the friends…read Mystery’s stuff on DHV’ing and engaging groups. Don’t just rely on what Max did…if the girls snub you, try opening another girl beside them and making that girl laugh and then loudly going “no, THESE girls HATE me, this one right here gave me the stink-eye when I said hello” and point the bitchy one out to your new pivot that’s been lol’ing beside them giving you preselection, “aw I’m just bugging you I know you’re not really mean, what’s your name? This is my wife Sally.” etc etc and you might get into the set that way. Still doesn’t budge? Befriend some dudes and introduce them to her group to distract them. Tell them you’re hired by the club to do a survey of everyone and have to open them and your girlfriend is the girl standing over there and you’re asexual and have no dick. Tell them you’re gay in your opener, go up and be like “OMG gurlfriend that dress is fabulous!!” and flail around like a fucking homo to disarm them. Act like you speak broken English and try to ask for help with something so they feel bad acting too bitchy to you, take a dive onto the floor beside them and pretend you’ve hurt yourself so they take pity on you. Mystery would perform some magic, maybe not even for them but for a set beside them, or all the sets around them EXCEPT them to make them feel left out and THEN bring them in, etc

At the start of this vid is Julien in-field getting the cameraman to line up for a good shot for him to take a dive to get into a set lol “you didn’t even help me!!” makes me lol every time (and they pull the girls home on camera):

Do WHATEVER it takes to get them to let their guard down long enough for you to make your moves lol Note that the key to what Max does in that set is that the INSTANT the set cracks open, he pounces on that to engage his target and build momentum in the set and push things forward…all you’re doing is trying a million different ways to get that little crack you can slip your crowbark (AKA DICK) into and pry open to get to your target.

Think outside the box. You have UNLIMITED ways to DHV and false disqualify, all the resources in the world to teach you various ways to DHV and false disqualify and win over these girls, and you’re in an environment with UNLIMITED things you can use to build your value or demonstrate value or distract them etc etc Get creative, that’s the Artist part of Pickup Artist. πŸ˜‰

Hope that gives you some ideas lol Have fun.


YaReally
on August 5th, 2016 at 4:35 am
Original Link

@Hollenhund
Fucking hard lols. You nailed it. That’s why I bring up the silly LARPy “masculinity will conquer all” stuff. I get that it’s nice feel-good stuff to hear, but the reality is that family court judge who takes your kids away doesn’t give a shit about your masculinity (and will probably classify your masculinity as “potentially violent and abusive”). Sending guys out into the real world in 2016 full of this silly fluff is like sending guys out to bang girls without understanding how to prevent Buyer’s Remorse. It’s irresponsible and comes with a lot of potential danger.

@walawala
“One of the girls I’m banging is a hypochondriac and attention seeker.”

So she’s a GIRL. lol

“In the last 4 months she’s claimed she’s gotten an STD, ear infections, flu, and the recent one: she’s “late” by one week. A pregnancy would be highly unlikely: extra safe condoms, pulling out, no goo anywhere….My response each and every time has been to shut it down: “see a doctor”. “highly unlikely”.”

I don’t know anything about your situ with her but questions to ask yourself:

1) is she developing feels for you and trying to test you to see if you’ll rescue her knight in shining armor style (basically tests to see if you care about her)?

2) when’s the last time you’ve seen her and when’s the last time you’ve banged and is she banging other guys? She may have been dealing with morning sickness and shit for a bit but not realized what it was or not wanted to say what it was and just made up the ear infection, flu, etc to stall for time to figure out what’s going on. If you haven’t seen her in a couple months she could be starting to bulge to where she can’t hide it (no idea how long a bulge takes to form) and just pretending she’s missed her period now but has actually missed it for a couple months and playing dumb now that she can’t deny it’s happening. Doesn’t mean it’s yours, could be some other dude’s, and if you’ve seen her recently with no bulge or anything then it’s probably not this, but if she’s been flaking on you for a couple months and you know she’s fucked other guys (which is pretty much safe to assume I’d say)……

3) STD could have been a permanent one or one that didn’t clear up like it was supposed to and she’s been stalling for time and the STD is fucking with her period or the stress is, whatever. Either way I’d make her get tested lol

4) She might just have a really embarrassing problem of some sort going on and is making up random excuses to try to buy time for it to clear up. I had a buddy who had a brutal skin condition for a while and he’d make up excuses with girls ’cause he didn’t want them to see him all fucked up or explain his situation but also didn’t want to lose them so he’d make up being sick or out of town etc until he was healed up

5) Be very cautious of her trying to get you to rawdog…if she IS preggers, she’ll probably try to get you to blow in her so that down the road she can be like “remember how we had unprotected sex a few times” and fudge the timeline on you hoping you won’t remember how it all played out exactly and might assume “I guess maybe it could’ve happened…”

6) Also if she ISN’T preggers but wants a baby by you ’cause she’s crazy or in love with you etc, she may try to get you to rawdog her so that she CAN get preggers. A pretty common strategy is SAY “I missed my period and took a test and I’m pregnant (and it’s too early for it to show yet)!” and see what the guy does and if he’s gonna be a “good guy” and “own his mistakes” (remember she’s NOT pregnant at this point), then she’ll pitch the “might as well ditch the condoms since I’m already pregnant” and the guy thinks “well I’m already fucked with a baby on the way so I guess there’s no harm and it feels good so okay” and THEN he actually DOES get her pregnant.

That’s a fun list, good luck sleeping tonight thinking about THAT shit lol

Oh you added more:

“When she claimed she might have an STD…I blew it off. She never mentioned it again.”

“MIGHT have” an STD is different from “HAVE and am clearing up with a round of pills” an STD.

“When she brought up the flu and whatever I just laughed it off. Never brought up again.”

This is probably nothing and probably just pinging you to see if you care (but if it is, then that means she’s feeling enough feels to WANT to know if you care which is a warning to note)

“The latest was “See a doctor” and I honestly don’t see this as a real possibility. But there isn’t the frantic cries for help it’s like a “I’m late” text. That’s the first clue it’s not serious.”

See wtf is this part? She txted you just the words “See a doctor”? That says she has an STD and it hasn’t cleared up and she may have given it to you. Or are you saying her latest text was that she’s going to see a doctor…did she say she’s going to see a doctor about being late? Is she going to see a doctor about her former STD?

Details yo, too hard to figure out what’s happening with this vague stuff.

@redlight
“For example you represent the other’s position as

OH I GUESS NAWALT THEN EXCEPT OH NO WAIT SOMETIMES ITS AWALT LOLOL LOOK AT YOU STRAWMANNING LOLOL OH I GUESS YOU’RE SAYING NO ONE HAS EVER GOTTEN DIVORCED BEFORE SMARTPHONES????!!?!” ”

He literally said that shit lol Minus the caps but those were his actual completely off-base arguments. Don’t paint me as Mr Bad Guy, you can read his posts in this thread where he goes off into straw-tangent land.

“You mock them personally, such as “you’re still a badass””

I love that everyone else can mock me but the second I do it back, I’m the asshole lol I didn’t even bring this discussion up this time. I was talking about single moms and the ADHD study and Sentient drives by with his snarky little “And when men point out the counter to this… that you – yes you Starbuck – can lead and take control of your family and influence your kids behavior via the mystical process known heretofore as “parenting” – you dismiss it as a bunch of old guys who lock there kids away on farms in imaginary communities…Lolliest of lols…Welcome to the counterpoint.”

But if I respond in kind OH NO YAREALLY IS AN ASSHOLE STIFLING DISCUSSION WAHHH Fuck that lol I was happily minding my own business on a different topic entirely. You gonna call Sentient out for the Starbuck and snark? Just kidding, that would be the lolliest of lols.

“The collateral damage is that civil discourse is no longer possible. The debate of ideas vanishes. Instead we have a single strong viewpoint, in the best interests of men.”

If we’re here to LARP and theorize and send men into risky situations so we can avoid addressing uncomfortable truths, cool, I just figured this was a place where helping guys was more important than sucking eachother’s dicks. It looks like some of the regulars here are a lot more invested in creating a social club of friends where they can come kick back and type up their LiveJournal entry humblebragging about what badasses they are as they pass around e-props to eachother and reinforce eachother’s limited views, LARPing about being a tribe and shit, more than actually helping future generations of men out.

@all
I got that old MM/Tyler workshop playing (a baby young Papa’s in there too lol) and ran into this part that I wanted to link that really gives a good idea of what the oldschool community was like (also fucking facepalm at the detective guy’s outfit):

He’s talking about why introducing yourself sucks (it’s showing interest before she’s earned it, which is fine for normal girls but for the smokin hot 10s you’re just giving them validation that, since you don’t know them, must be based on their looks which implies you aren’t around girls that look like her very often since you value her looks so highly etc etc subcomms lol remember Mystery’s overall strategy is DHV until she shows interest in you, then qualify her on something other than her looks till she earns your interest back, setting the frame of her chasing you instead of the other way around).

Dude in the audience shares his story about how he makes sure the girl knows his name then thinks out-loud “but maybe I SHOULDN’T be doing that and throwing away the free ioi?” and Mystery, the guy they’re all there to learn from, is like “Ya I do that too, but you know what, maybe I SHOULDN’T be doing that, that’s a good point, maybe I’m just giving that away. We’ll field test it.” and moves on.

Like that’s it, no 10 hour jockey theory session on why it would or wouldn’t work. It just goes on the list of things to try when they hit the field that night. And they’ll try introducing themselves and not introducing themselves, and get everyone to try it, and compare notes and nuances of the sets it was tried on (types of girls, types of situations, level of attraction, etc etc) and field test it for weeks or months to determine what gets better consistent results.

Even Mystery was like “that’s what I do too (and then shares a routine involving telling the girl his name that you can tell he loves using by how he tells it), but this idea you’ve brought up aligns with principles we already know hold up infield, so let’s go test it out and see if there’s a better more efficient way of doing what I do”, no ego attached to it, no “THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WORKS!!! DON’T LISTEN TO OTHER SYSTEMS OR OTHER COACHES OR EVEN OTHER STUDENTS!!” It was just: what happens when we field test it? What gets consistent results? When IS it a good idea to introduce yourself, when is it vital to NOT introduce yourself?

That was the part I wanted to share, but the rest of the clip is good too. Mystery talks about dealing with other guys entering your sets and shit. And he says “ya it’s great to have your wing occupy an obstacle, but like, as soon as he gets blown out those obstacles are taking the girl away…so I prefer to manage my OWN obstacles.”

Like really process that mentality lol So many guys are scared to go out solo or think they can’t pull without a wingman and ESPECIALLY think they can’t handle a group/mixed set without a wingman…but Mystery actively PREFERS to manage a MIXED GROUP all by himself just so he can have complete control over every nuance of what’s going on and where everyone’s state is at in the group etc

Meanwhile we’ve got all these other guys who won’t even open a group/mixed set or tell you not to go game in nightclubs, everyone is there with friends and other guys, just go find the lone wolf girls on the street in the daytime where everything is nice and safe!! lol

Part of the fun of PUA is seeking out challenges infield to really test your shit once you get a handle on it. I used to go out solo and start my night barging into huge bachelorette/birthday parties, like me as the center of attention VS 9 girls and see how far I could take it and manage the group etc, just to warm up and get outside of my head (and build preselection/social proof and absorb social pressure etc lol).

Part of that was that we felt like we found a secret superpower so we were like “O MAN I GOTTA TRY THIS OUT!!!” and wanting to see what we could get away with out there since we were already breaking all the rules of society. But I think now that pickup is more mainstream guys are a lot more hesitant to challenge themselves because there’s probably already a chapter or video about whatever their sticking point is and they think “I can go watch that video about it and learn what I should’ve done” instead of what we had to do where we’d just try it and see what happens and then compare notes because we didn’t HAVE 500 hours of Tyler videos to refer to lol

From another clip Mystery says “When talking, ignore the target for the most part. So picture yourself, you’re going to be going into 3-sets. I mean I’m talking TONIGHT, we’re going out. Tomorrow. No more approaching girls by themselves, guys you gotta up your game this is advanced stuff now. You wanna get the 10s? You’re gonna find them in GROUPS. Two girls sitting at a table. You see them and you’re gonna go up to them. (etc etc)”

That was the mindset. And part of why I roll my eyes at the pain avoidance styles teaching guys to just pick off the easy non-scary lone wolves instead of developing a legitimate solid well-rounded versatile pickup skillset and usually taking home the 6/10s. ’cause ANY guy can learn this shit. It’s right here to learn from for free and you can go out and practice it for free anywhere, there’s no reason a guy has to limit himself and his game skillset to picking off low-hanging fruit and being scared to go for the girls he wants because the situation looks “hard”.

And from another clip for @Junior “You ignore your target and pay special attention to the target’s friends so she can observe you being the center of attention as you do your routines to engage the group”

And some super oldschool cocky asshole Tyler whipping newbies into shape:

Might be good for the newbies to watch another guy going through the choking up trying to come up with stuff to say (pretty much any dude learning game can identify with that guy on stage), and how effortlessly Tyler just riffs stuff together, because Tyler was putting in tons of infield hours pushing himself and his brain was firing on more cylinders with better conscious competence to free-flow and wing shit while still weaving in DHVs and teases etc You don’t get that in a computer chair, you get that by going out this weekend lol and AS I’m typing this Tyler mentions going out infield to practice and then a pep talk ABOUT hitting the field. Perfect little pep-talk for a Friday.


YaReally
on August 7th, 2016 at 9:07 am
Original Link

@Culum Struan
“One thing I’ve noticed (just in this Blitz Week actually) is often I’ll be standing at the bar and a 2-3 set will be to my side and the one beside me (facing away) will back into me and touch my arm (on the bar) more than she needs to – ie, her back will be jostling my arm. Similar to what you’re talking about..hmm.”

That’s pAImAI. It means they want you to open them lol The one with her back to you is the one that likes you. Would she back into and continue to jostle a disgusting creepy homeless dude? She’s very aware of the guys around her.

http://ipua.blogspot.ca/2006/07/interesting-article-paimai-by.html

“Just saw Mystery moving video. What is he doing there? Does he literally have a few people over at his house and he’s doing some impromptu lecturing with a camera switched on?”

lol pretty much. I’m sure he solid it but like, these guys could talk for endless hours about this stuff. The pube-hair guy is Lovedrop one of his main wingmen and the girls are probably just random girls they know or have banged. These guys lived and breathed this stuff 24/7, literally, they weren’t doing 9-5 jobs sarging for a couple hours a week lol Mystery was big into building social circles, as were most of the Project Hollywood guys, so they could throw parties and roll to clubs with girls and shit.

“PPS – Also reminds me of back in the day when I used to go to swingers clubs and stuff – especially when in jacuzzi and stuff – very similar sort of compliance tests/IOI tests in whether someone’s foot “accidentally” brushes on yours underwater and that sort of thing..”

It’s all the same thing, “swingers clubs” aren’t special. This is all around you 24/7. πŸ™‚

@M Simon @hank
“One thing that helps is READING a LOT of good writing to get a feel for how the good ones do it.”

He’s not trying to write a compelling novel for guys to jack off to, he’s dumping data of what’s happening in his interactions for diagnosis purposes. Half the shit guys throw into their field reports is just fluff that doesn’t help diagnose…we don’t need to know about how she had a twinkle in her eye as the bar lights reflected off your half-empty bottle bla bla Just get to the point so we can fix shit.

@hank
Good progress.

“Homework for me is to be more aware of my subcoms. I’m doing these sexual things in body language”

A lot of guys find that when they’re sick/tired/worn out from banging/etc they get insane attraction infield out of nowhere, AIs left and right, eye-contact from every girl they pass etc. What happens is you’re too dead to give a fuck so all your fidgety little subcomms that are there when you’re on the prowl vanish and like, you can’t be bothered to work up the energy to care that much about sex or to look around the room at everything that’s happening, or to move quickly, or to speak fast, or to look away from a girl’s eyes, etc Then they heal up and get no more AIs and go “wtf!!” lol

“But the point is to jot down as much as I can remember to give PUAs stuff to work with to give me tips, and also to record my feelings and thought processes.”

Ya I read them all but depending on my schedule I’ll do breakdowns or just point out little things. As long as you’re going out infield a lot of stuff will fix itself, like when I read certain things I know a couple more outings and you’ll figure it out yourself (and that feels good) so I don’t always respond to everything. Like 3 Field Reports individually might not have anything worth commenting on specifically, but reading all 3 of those FRs as a whole it’s like “ok he keeps doing this, there’s a pattern here we can fix”. Like it’s the overall journey not just the individual interaction.

“LATER, if I brought up that FR again or was doing some big project, I might edit it. But there is no reason here lol.”

A lot of guys just want to read a good story lol That’s how guys like Krauser make their money, throw in pics of 10s off the internet labelled “TOTALLY exactly the girl I banged except my girl had a better ass” and fill it with a bunch of fancifal story-telling stuff so guys can get fully absorbed into it and it’s fun and everything but like, you’re not trying to sell a book of your adventures. You’re looking to fix sticking points efficiently. Just keep doing what you’re doing, Simon has a scroll wheel.

@Forge
“They have all kinds of tactics that are designed to weaken your frame and it’s just a matter of experiencing them before you can effectively recognize and counter them I suppose.”

Yup.

“So I just play, tease, roll off a few times and escalate shit and she’s still chill w it but it’s clearly not going anywhere. She just seems tired and blasé.”

This is the most annoying shit in the world lol when a girl comes over and half-asses being there. The funniest is when they warn me ahead of time and are like “I’m pretty tired today can we just hang out plus it’s my time of month and I have cramps so can we just cuddle tonight?” and then I go “Nah.” and watch my phone blow up as they flip their fucking shit lol

“I try verbal game and she’s loving the teasing and sparring but again doesn’t go anywhere.”

She’s getting what she wants (attention/entertainment from a high-value guy) while you don’t get what you want (sex). Lopsided deal. If she won’t provide sex, you stop providing attention/entertainment.

This is where a Mystery style freezeout would go (shut down completely and just watch TV and don’t touch her etc, not butthurt/mad, but just like you’ve lost interest…read up on Mystery’s LMR freezeouts) or find a way to send her home.
“Eventually she implies she’d be down for a massage”

Trap, she won’t put out.

“but I refuse, telling her I’m not gonna subject myself to that if she’s so set on not having a libido.”

Good man.

“She laughs resignedly- “fair enough.””

She reveals she had zero intention of putting out.

“Some flirty convo, then she thanks me and leaves.”

Again she got what she wanted (getting to spend time with a high-value alpha male on her terms building a relationship vibe (hanging out with no sex getting to know eachother and shit)), while providing nothing.

“she heard about a big career thing I had last week that spurred BB interest from her. There’s been a bit of frame creep. I let her vent to me about some shit briefly, which I reacted to dominantly (‘no forget the shit you’re doing, do X’ w v dominant tonality) but it’s still beta.”

All bad stuff lol but at least you’re AWARE that this is where you’re fucking this up. She’s just reacting the way your actions are triggering her instinctive hindbrain to react: you’re displaying Provider shit (indirectly or directly), enough that she can’t classify you as purely a Lover. Because you’re becoming a candidate for BOTH slots in her life now, she’s probably going to try to get you to hang out with her without sex and try to build a relationship naturally with you, and if that doesn’t work then she’ll push towards an Ultimatum. You may lose her completely at the Ultimatum…at least for a few months or a year or a few years (see Blackdragon on LSNFTE).

“Beta bait, all beta bait. So now in the ‘frame’ is ‘I can just come spend a morning w him and have asexual fun.’ Also ‘I can dictate times of the month nothing happens if I don’t want. ‘”

Yup. Guys who read my above bit about txting “Nah” and letting my phone explode probably rolled their eyes but think about it from a redpill perspective: I’m not letting her think she can come over and not have sex. I’m instigating a FUCKLOAD of shit-tests and pissing her off HARDCORE (HUGE emotional rollercoaster) to the point where she may not even SPEAK to me for WEEKS because of it…but when that all settles down, I’m the guy who didn’t compromise and she may HATE that she’s attracted to that, but she’ll still be attracted to it and I’m likely to get a drunk txt along with some sarcastic “just using me for sex” humor etc

Also I’d rather have that drama explode on my phone than in a face to face in-person situation like trying to kick her out when she won’t put out lol

“That’s a soft next in my book. In a sense it’s my own damn fault, but still.”

Yup. But you understand what you did wrong at least. I like Mystery’s line from his freezeout stuff where he’s like “no I’m not mad, I’m just used to girls who enjoy sex more, it’s kind of a turn-off when a girl I’m into doesn’t like having sex with me…but it’s fine we might just not be compatible for eachother sexually, I think we have a really good friendship at least” where you act like her behavior just made you give less fucks about her and imply she’s on her way to the friend zone lol

“She can come over if she wants to bang I guess. Badly enough to wear something nice for me.”

She sure as shit better. Make the demand next time. When she wants to come over (wait for her to ask to come over) tell her flat out “Sure. Wear a bla bla” If she gives a fuss about it or doesn’t show up done up for you, do a full freezeout friendzone and kick her out. You’re not getting what you want out of the relationship while she gets what she wants.

“If I had been an ass and ignored her when she was trying to get comfort from me she’d be pissed – and also keep me more strongly in the ‘lover’ category.”

That’s the tradeoff lol Less drama but less attraction.

“If I’d been like ‘ok we’ll reschedule’ when she texted about no sex last night she’d be like ‘wtf really?’ And send a bunch of frame tests. But then she wouldn’t come over unless dtf.”

This is why I started just turning them down lol Sometimes you lose them for a while (or forever if they have other guys on the go) but usually they’ll come back down the road. For me it’s not worth the hassle.

The thing is, you can still get her OVER. That’s no problem. But do you want her over on her terms where she starts making you her asexual hangout buddy? Personally I’d rather NOT see her than see her from a friendzone/provider role. I might lose her, but at the point she’s trying that shit on me I was already losing her ANYWAY.

“Live n learn. Each relationship I get into teaches me a shitton. Life is good.”

That’s what it’s all about. Live and learn. πŸ™‚

“I suspect I’ll get a ‘heeey’ text sooner rather than later the way things have gone so far.”

She’ll txt you acting like nothing is wrong to see if you’ll act aloof/butthurt or normal. Act normal, be a high-value cool flirty guy like always, just don’t pitch a “so are you free friday?” Do this for a few days so she feels like “okay he’s not butthurt”, and then just taper off the amount you txt her. Like stop initiating txts etc so that she feels a slow loss of your interest. Should snap her back into “I’m losing him I better rock his world!” mode. The trick is to not let her realize you’re losing interest until after it’s past the “he’s butthurt” stage lol…right now she’s gonna wanna see if you’re butthurt…but if you can act normal and just be busy with work this week and then slowly stop initiating the convos and not pitch any meetups, maybe even turn her down if she initiates with a “ahh shit I’d love to babe, I plan to tie you up and do all sorts of things to you to make up for aunt flo sabotaging us last timeπŸ˜‰ but I’ve got a big deadline this week.” So it’s hard for her to read…you TALK like you’re still interested, but you’ve stopped initiating chats and suddenly you’re busy with work etc etc

“But I just got a bit of a tone to the whole interaction like she’s trying to backtrack her free sexuality with me in order to start using it as leverage.”

Yup. When you refuse to asexually hang out she can throw the “I’m just a piece of meat to fuck to you” shit-test at you. But if you DO hang out, you become more of a Provider chode to her.

“You can’t just do what you want sexually (she actually told me once ‘you can do whatever you want only on your birthday’ lol fuck that)”
“Dressing up for you is a pain (asked her to put something nice on, she never looks like a slob but never really dresses up much either)”

lol I’ve full out ditched fuckbuddies who complained too much about having to doll up for me or bring their A-game sexually. They get pissed but I look at it like it would just be pulling teeth anyway so hey, they’re doing me a favor by warning me that “lingerie is only for special occasions”. Every night with me is a special occasion…if you don’t think so then we don’t have to hang out ’cause other girls will appreciate my time. Some of them smarten up, some of them are so dead-set on trying to be unattractive or so warped by feminism into “I won’t do what a man demands!!” that I lose them. No fucks given ’cause for every girl like that I’ve met a girl who LOVES dolling up and embracing being feminine and being seductive for me etc so I know those girls are out there.

“I’m going to stop telling you about my fantasies/past sexual experiences now just in case it spooks you, bc I want you to see me as being a ‘good girl’ (she’s acting like it’s all a big secret I need to ‘earn’ now, instead of trading stories like at the beginning)”

Yup. You’re entering Provider mode with her. Not necessarily ALL Provider like you might still be mostly Lover to her, but enough of a glimpse of Provider potential that she’s trying this shit.

You won’t wanna hear it but you have to be fully willing to lose her and never see her again. This is why we try to have multiple girls on the go and sarge regularly, so we can dismiss a girl or let her go for bad behavior like this and not be crying ourselves to sleep getting drunk and drunk-dialing her and blowing our value even further etc

“she is actually really good to me in lots of ways (helps out however she can around the house, is very eager when things are on, tries to figure out what makes me tick physically, tries hard to impress me with her wit and will, etc).”

Cool. You know who else does all that? A roommate or friend. Minus the sex part, but she’s starting to deny you sex anyway so how is it any different from a platonic friend or female roommate except that she may occasionally put out here and there if you earn it, just like all the guys in /deadbedrooms/

She’s offering you NOTHING that you won’t get from PRETTY MUCH ANY OTHER GIRL WHO’S ATTRACTED TO YOU lol Except that those girls will ALSO fuck you when they’re on the rag. I can’t count the number of girls I’ve had put up LMR till I realize and call out or they admit, that they’re on the rag, and then I’m just like oh is that all jesus and reframe it as no big deal and they run to the bathroom to toss it out (or in one case I just grabbed papertowels and pulled it out and wrapped it up quick and tossed it aside lol).

Being on the rag is very different from being on the rag and also not wanting to fuck you. When she adds that second part, that’s her either testing your frame or starting to view you as a potential Provider and trying to weasel relationship shit out of you. If you had been a super badass alpha this whole time, I’d say it’s just testing your frame, just escalate and fuck her, but with all the other stuff you described about your little Providery/beta tells you’ve given her (directly or indirectly), this is more likely a “catching feels” situation where she’s setting you up for a monoLTR.

“So ya, she can demonstrate that that stuff is resolved – and she very well might if I maintain / establish proper frame! – but that’s up to her. I’m not trying to be a hardass super-alpha here like MY FRAME BRAH!, it’s just that all these bullet-point things legitimately stress me out/add drama to my day that I don’t need.”

This is salvagable. Play it like I describe. But you’re probably looking at the Ultimatum coming soon, like after a few more bangs and you’re probably going to lose her to a LSNFTE, so get sarging and have a backup girl or two if you don’t.

“I have a lot of fun and like hanging with her when she doesn’t do this stuff.”

That’s the BARE MINIMUM. I have fun hanging out with my male buddy and he doesn’t suck my dick either lol

“So why should any man let this whole ‘not-in-the-mood’ thing stop them?”

The mindset, ideally, is “That’s totally fine, I won’t make you have sex if you aren’t in the mood to have sex with me…you get some ice cream and Netflix and curl up at home and I’ll have a girl come over who IS “in the mood” to have sex with me :)” Like zero butthurt lol You don’t say those words exactly, but like, that’s your vibe.

Read Mystery Method on freezeouts.

@SJF
Your mentioning me in every post and putting words in my mouth and misrepresenting me is what drives me crazy.

@Junior
Just the field making you humble after you got a little cocky before lol Just accept the ups and downs. Game will take you through the highest highs of your life and the lowest lows of your life. Most people spend their lives living barely above and below a flat dialtone. But you don’t get the high highs without the low lows.

“I was totally sober, zero money spent”

This is a win right here as far as I’m concerned. I used to make this a goal so that if I had a shitty night at least I didn’t spend any money or wake up hungover lol Like I’m reframing to find positives in the night if nothing goes well.

“I’m guilty of doing ALL the shitty avoidance behaviours lol- slinking off into corners to recoup, looking at my phone, dancing needlessly & really without any desire to do so (fuckin lol jeezusss), while GETTING IOIs from girls around me lol. Just hard-wired shitty ego-protecting behaviours that only a commitment to right-action can fix”

lol you’ll do those forever. Don’t beat yourself up. We all have nights like that, especially if we haven’t been out in a while. Just be aware of what’s happening inside you when it happens so you can use that frustration to fuel a better night the next night out…like “okay, I choded out last night so THIS time I’m going to say hi to ANYTHING that’s around me as soon as I walk into the bar, the FIRST set I see I don’t care who it is, I’m going to ask where the bathroom is or something just to not get trapped in that “not talking to anyone” trap again”

If it helps: most of us find that each night out is it’s own individual beast. Like you can get momentum going if you go out regularly and frequently enough to where you go on a run, but for the most part one night has ZERO influence on the next night. You can have the worst night of your life one night, then your brain has all this little subcomm stuff going on (like your ego is destroyed so you care less about protecting it, you’re driven to not avoid action like you did the night before whether you get laid or not, etc) and then have the greatest night of your life. And then the next night out your brain is like “gotta succeed to live up to the image I have of myself from last night where I was a pimp” and now you’re outcome dependent and ego-protecting to avoid ruining the image you build up the night before, and boom you have the worst night ever lol

But just understanding and accepting this as part of the game is half the battle. That’s why we call it a GAME. You don’t win every match of Mortal Kombat. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but you don’t lose a few games and then cry and stop playing or let it take away from the fun you had (hell sometimes the loss IS the fun if it’s a funny story). You just pick up the controller to play another round because you appreciate the fun of the game more than worrying about protecting your ego or never losing a match.

@Rollo
And just on a funny note:

“But in the Mystery Method, we approach the group itself. Women tend to be attracted to the highest value man in their social context. Could it be possible to take over her group and become the highest-value man in it?”

Hypergamy, even in the old days we understood it as a mechanic, but we didn’t have a label for it or get all the depths of it like you’ve drilled into. It’s funny to see that the seeds were there though. PUA is basically about triggering Hypergamy and Mystery enters group sets because he knows he has the skills to work a group and come off 0.0001% cooler than the other guys in it to the girl, triggering Hypergamy, which is why he isn’t afraid of those sets.