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via Rational Male

on July 20th, 2016 at 11:26 am
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Ok I’ll be the asshole:

“I do plan to get married next year with an amazing woman, on my terms and she is incredibly excited to become part of my life. I think living a passionate and exciting life can trupy happen while married if you find the girl who approaches unicorn status (awalt of course, YMMV)”

Well shit, must be one of those UMC unicorn NAWALT angels I heard about in another thread. Good thing this guy knows HIS is one of the special Good Girls who doesn’t make an olympic sport of fucking so he can legally tie himself to her despite reading Red Pill shit.

Fuck it, don’t even get a prenup dude, the older wiser guys told me in the last thread that social conditioning these days is no big deal, and if she has a good strong father then she’s immune to the Eat Pray Love culture around her and won’t be influenced by it, and I’ve heard that when you find a special unicorn you shouldn’t pass her up and should settle down and follow a special separate type of game called relationship game and just focus on sailing boats and chopping trees down and other masculinity-association-approved hobbies and you’ll be fine your woman will just follow you around adoringly…I mean, you wanna be a real multidimensional alpha triad MAN, don’t you? How else are you gonna get e-props from other Manospherians? Isolating yourself from chasing the approval of names on a computer screen is dangerous, don’tcha know!

For real though: Disregard everything I just said above. Either don’t legally tie yourself to her (but you will of course, because she’s a unicorn and you’re so outcome independent that you’ll do something with 100% huge risks to you because if you didn’t she might leave you which is totally outcome independence, and you’ve been socially conditioned to think that you can’t have a loving happy home to raise a kid in if you don’t have a legal noose around your neck) or research the FUCK out of thrown-out pre-nups to see why they get thrown out and find some fucking IRON CLAD pre-nup information and accept that even THEN it may be thrown out entirely in a divorce one day by a judge who doesn’t want to see a girl cry…study the fuck out of Dread Game and understand that you WILL have to use it and you WILL HAVE TO USE IT FOREVER, and that you are not a special snowflake and your girl is not a special unicorn who will stay attracted to you by default. You have to MAINTAIN that attraction, forever, until you die, even if you lose your job or get sick or get depressed etc etc

“My outcome independence that I have honed spinning plates lets me be the king of the castle.”

So of course then natural next step, now that you’re king of the castle outcome independent and she’s in full NRE mode attracted to you and doting on you lovingly, is to sign yourself into a legal agreement where she can fuck you over if she’s unhappy in 10+ years and take away your future kids with most of society supporting and encouraging her to do it, which assuming you care about your assets, mental health, and kids, will force you INTO outcome dependence. Are you going to throw monogamy on top of that, just to make sure you don’t have other options and can’t walk out on her so that you have as much outcome dependence as possible?

If you’re determined to do this (which you are) then make sure you fully (FULLY) understand Dread Game, read the MMSL MAP plan and implement it from day one, read every article you can find on Hypergamy, and make GODDAMNED sure you understand that you don’t have a unicorn NAWALT. She is programmed exactly like every other girl, even if she has some good layers of social conditioning on top of that programming…if you don’t accept that, then will be playing Russian Roulette and we’ll see you back here in 10+ years.

“Im projected to make six figures in my late 20’s.”

And remember your alimony and child support if your girl (presumably early/mid-20s girl who was raised in this Eat Pray Love culture) DOESN’T resist social conditioning and you DON’T do the shit I just listed, will be based on this six figure income.

Also read Blackdragon’s post here:

And my post here:

Make DAMN sure you understand what we’re saying in those posts and have plans/habits/etc to counter all the points we bring up.

And people wonder why I harp on NAWALT when guys push the special unicorn shit instead of letting the fantasy bragging about having NAWALTS and how all my kids and their friends and this special class of people are NAWALTS etc go. How in the world does a guy read TRP/TRM religiously and then go and voluntarily get legally married lol

On the @op topic so this isn’t a total derail:
I know very few successful dudes in their late 20s who even WANT to own houses, or if they do own them they’re viewed more as temporary stops while they build their careers, VS a final destination to invest in longterm and mow the lawn for. It’s way more socially acceptable to be single in your 30s now (whether you’re a PUA or not, I’m talking about general guys) and young girls want to settle down less and older girls who want to settle down are shit quality so these guys are more hesitant to settle.

To them buying a house to settle down is so “final”, like that’s IT. You’re locked down to wherever you chose…which is alright if you’re settling down to start a family, but if you’re single? What if you want to live somewhere better in a few years, what if your career opportunities take you somewhere else, how can you know you’re going to want to be in that same city on that one street for the rest of your life when you’re only late 20s early 30s and still have tons of shit to do and see still? At least living at home you KNOW is temporary and not your final destination yet.

Like, the concept of a single dude in his late 20s early 30s owning a settle-down long-term for life house all for himself is WEIRD lol Most guys and girls I can think of would be like “…what? WHY??” if the guy is single. If it’s a little tiny house for just him (and I know guys with these, like not big enough to raise a big family in but big enough to throw BBQs for your buddies and park your car in the garage that’s built into the house etc), then it’s usually just a temporary stop in his mind and he’ll only be there for a few years and sell it off…and if it’s a house big enough for a family, but he’s SINGLE, then it comes off as this weird “I’m desperate to have a family, please some girl come fill this void in my life😦 :(” thing lol Like a George Sodini thing.

The guys I know with 6 figure incomes have enough money that they don’t need to get a house to secure having a roof over their head because they have enough money to always be able to afford a roof over their head wherever they decide to go and aren’t worried about society collapsing or anything, and the guys without 6 figure incomes view buying a house as a crazy needless expense if they don’t have a girl they’re settling down to start a family with right away.

Like Scray what are your buddies like on the buying a life-long house topic? You roll in that well-off millennial crowd that I’m thinking about when I say this stuff.

Now the guys settling down who accidentally get a girl pregnant, or the beta guys in shitty relationships and scared to leave them, or who are nagged by their girl and their families and social pressure to get a house and start a family, and the religious/FI-conditioned guys who believe in the marriage = true love forever thing want to buy houses.

And so do the guys happily in love in flawless relationships where they want to have kids with their girl and she wants to be with them forever and ever…they want houses too. But I can count those relationships on one hand and at least half of them are pretty much guaranteed to fall apart down the road but the guy is oblivious to the red flags popping up (’cause he has the NAWALT so why even think she’s like any other girl?). The other half of those handful is doing great though (minus possibly deadbedrooms etc that they may have behind closed doors)…so far at least, we’ll see how it pants out for them in 10 years lol

on July 20th, 2016 at 11:27 am
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holy shit reddit, didn’t know you were going to do THAT in the middle of my post lol Now I know how girls feel when they get unsolicited dick pics.

on July 20th, 2016 at 12:06 pm
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Serious question, not a trap: Why marry her now VS, say, after your first kid together is 5 years old. Like, if we told you don’t legally marry her until you live together and have a kid together and he’s 5 years old (so you’re in your 30s etc), what would your honest top-of-your-head reason NOT to do that be?

on July 20th, 2016 at 12:13 pm
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“Isnt the abundance mentality the essence of dread game in an LTR?”

Abundance mentality comes from having abundance and you are about to voluntarily enter a legal agreement where not only do you remove your abundance and ability to regain/increase your abundance, but you’re giving her and the family court and divorce court system the ability to SEVERELY punish you if you do, at some point, decide to try to get your abundance mentality when you lose it.

Do you have a career or social life arrangements that involve being around hot girls regularly (to keep your abundance mentality up while also stoking her dread)? And are those arrangements that you will be able to keep a part of your life long-term when she has EVERY legal/societal ability to not allow you to have them once you sign that contract?

And do you understand that your SMV is going to increase dramatically in the next 10 years, while your wife’s SMV decreases dramatically, and that the legal contract you’re going to voluntarily sign will REMOVE all incentive for her to try to keep her SMV HIGH for you.

on July 20th, 2016 at 12:59 pm
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“It’s funny, from trial and error I had devised this flawless speech for when girls ask we “so, where are we going with this?”, that I don’t believe in monogamy blablabla. It worked really well, and I was quite proud of it.

But as time went by, I’ve noticed that I had to give THE SPEECH less and less. And nowadays, if the topic ever comes up with younger girls (18-23 I’d say), they are GLAD I don’t wanna be their boyfriend hahaha. Most even give me some kind of version of my speech, like they don”t wanna be tied down to one person, they believe they need to experience the world, they wanna travel a lot etc.

And they even JOKE that if I’d wanted to be exclusive, it would be kind of a turn-off for them.”

This is my exact experience, and the experience of a lot of other dudes. I was actually bummed at the shift at first because my speeches for getting around the monogamy/settle down stuff were SO perfected from before social media cell phones Tinder etc. I felt like a thief in the night running off with the crown jewels every time I pulled that speech off successfully lol

But now they’re saying my speech before I can and all I have to do is nod along and tool other guys for being needy chodes and then it’s casual fuckbuddy time.

I know more DUDES who want a girlfriend/monogamy/kids/etc than I do GIRLS lol Like, my Blue Pill providery buddies (the Red Pill ones are generally happy playing the field still) WANT to settle down and WANT a girlfriend SO BAD but them wanting that turns the girls off.

“Some people in the thread have mentionned it but right now there is HUGE social influence directed at girls to travel, accumulate experiences, date many guys etc. But what is sad is that there is nothing about the “after”, like when they are too old to sleep in smelly hostels in SE Asia with a fucked up liver from all the booze etc.”

This is what I was trying to point out last thread. A lot of these girls feel “held back” by monogamy/settling…until they meet a guy who stokes enough Lover AND Provider traits that they suddenly expect to get monogamy from him lol I stick to being as far in the Lover camp as possible without showing any Provider traits so I can avoid that shit (since if I show some Provider side, they fall in love and want commitment/monogamy and then I get The Ultimatum and drama and they have to go LSTFNE etc)

But why wouldn’t they think like this when this is what’s being socially conditioned into them:

I mean, doesn’t that look like the fucking GREATEST TIME IN THE ENTIRE GODDAMN WORLD?? 22 million+ views. Like a chick in the comments says: “I literally just cried, I wanna go so bad!!!ο»Ώ”

“but the first “final” one. “upgrade” it. my favorite are the twats who need chef kitchens but can barely boil water. they think their fucking “taste” is so unique and awesome because going to the granite dealer and choosing is so fucking difficult.”

Right. None of that is appealing lol But like, that’s my point…Why would a guy want to DO that stuff when he has so many other options? At least until he’s in his late 30s and wants to start a family. Except for guys like Big-Al who still have Blue Pill beliefs conditioned into them.

“No legal expert here but my reasoning would be that you are already essentially conjoined at that point anyways in the eyes of the law. Would that not require you give up your parental rights to be 100 percent obligation free to the child until he reaches 5 years of age and you got officially married?”

What? Dude. I think you need to read up on this stuff.

“If there is a better way to have and raise children than marriage as we know it today, I am all ears.”

What is the difference between raising a child in a household you both live in, raising your child with love and care and provision, and you’re both together the rest of your lives…and the exact same thing except you have a legal paper that can obliterate you?

“I dont see how children out of wedlock works better, Id be interested in examples and feedback.”

Lamb to the fucking slaughter…

“For me it seems like there is no perfect option for those who want to become fathers someday.”

Raising a kid in a household yo both live in, with love and care and provision, and staying together the rest of your lives WITHOUT a legal noose around your neck is a better option than the same WITH the noose.

Serious question: If you’ve been reading Red Pill shit then you know you can’t negotiate desire, even with a legal contract. So the contract isn’t to keep HER around. Are YOU worried that you’re going to walk out on her? No? Then why do you need a legal contract VS just staying with her voluntarily?

“Somebody had to do it.”

lol I’m sitting there like is no one going to bitch-slap some sense into this guy?? This is some mid-20s dude who thinks he’s even CAPABLE of screening for a unicorn at his age, who thinks he’s found a unicorn and is voluntarily entering fucking legal MARRIAGE, before he’s anywhere NEAR his peak SMV, because she’s special and “it’s the right thing to do”. No one’s gonna bring up the elephant in the room?

“Nobody wants to hear this when they’re in LOOOOOOoooooove. But this is the rest of your LIFE.”

Dude’s posts sound head in the clouds and like he hasn’t ACTUALLY looked into any of this stuff (why would he that stuff only happens to guys who don’t have a UMC unicorn with a good strong father) and won’t ACTUALLY take any of the precautions he should be taking.

““everything you like about a chick you can get without monogamy”

except exclusive access to her vag.”

That’s not true at all lol pLTR arrangement provides that, and just generally triggering her Hypergamy properly makes other guys not worth fucking (you may be able to fuck your choice of 300lbs landwhales when you have an HB10 who’s DTF whenever you want, but you probably won’t fuck the landwhales because your main option is so much better than them).

Though when they get closer to 30 then they ramp up the exclusivity demands ’cause they want to know for sure they’re going to have you long-term etc But then they’re 30 so ew lol

on July 20th, 2016 at 1:48 pm
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“My problem as a man is looking at all the mgtow doom and gloom without seeing good alternatives to successful and effective fatherhood. Im not seeing a better way, and clearly marriage is a risky proposition.”

Have kids and stay with her without the legal marriage contract. Serious question: what reason do you have to NOT do that? The reason I’m asking this is because your answer is going to be either “she won’t stay with me and have kids with me if I don’t give her marriage” (which is fear/scarcity based and the OPPOSITE of abundance mentality), or “well it’s pretty much the same either way” (which it’s not, and you need to do more research on that)

“But the funny part is that ALL the time, this guy ends up being maybe 1% more invested in her than I am, and it seems that from this information, her brain rationalizes that I’m better than the other guy. Which isn’t true at all haahhaha. If she had not dumped this other dude, perhaps she would be on his boat in the Med, drinking champagne every night etc. instead of being on my broken Ikea futon. I don’t know, I find it super funny.”

lol this

“Do you think it is true or false that the best possible arrangement between a man and a woman to raise psychologically healthy children is life-lasting marriage?”

Counter-question for you and Big-Al: What reason can you give that a relationship without a marriage contract can’t still be life-lasting, loving, living together, staying together, showing affection for eachother, raising a good healthy child with a loving example in front of them, etc.

Like, what is it about the legal contract that the kid will never see, that makes you think you need it to stay together and raise a healthy child?

Again questions for you and Big-Al:

1) Do you think that if you DON’T get that legal contract, YOU will leave HER? If you plan to leave her, why would you settle and have kids with her?

2) Do you think that SHE will leave YOU if you don’t get that legal contract? If you think she’ll leave you, to the point where you need to legally tie her to you to prevent it, why would you settle and have kids with her?

“And just so you know, thanks for that post and all those links, even if you might think it is absolutely a fool’s play to get marred, those are invaluable pieces of advice.”

The reality is I can’t stop you guys from getting married, just like I won’t be able to stop my Blue/Purple Pill buddies from getting married. You’re going to probably make a bad decision because all of your social conditioning your whole life has taught you to think that you need to be legally married to have a loving healthy long-term relationship and raise a healthy child which is why the questions I’m asking are hard for you guys to answer with anything concrete, the conginitive dissonance programmed in you keeps you from asking yourselves these questions so your answers will be stuff like “uhhh well, it just IS” or “I dunno, EVERYTHING is a risk so might as well” etc, your brain has been taught to avoid looking at these things objectively and rationally by your life-long conditioning to get you to think exactly what you think because that benefits the FI.

But if you’re going to do it anyway and learn the hard way, I can at least stuff your backpack full of resources and things to think about and homework assignments and hope that they save your ass from being another cautionary tale someday as I watch you skip off to the slaughterhouse.

“I was divorced. I was not divorced raped. I’ve never experienced a dead bedroom. The breakout opinion on marriage when I asked my elders was 60-40 in favor with caveats.”

But remember: Blaximus is like, THE Alpha male example, from a young age. He wasn’t Googling Red Pill forums, he was living and breathing it, you guys are NOT Blaximus.

on July 20th, 2016 at 2:14 pm
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(also part of the reason Big-Al instinctively wanted to just pop in and out and not drag the conversation back into the marriage debate is BECAUSE he hasn’t actually thought this through objectively/rationally (VS emotionally) or looked into the laws etc, and his brain was hoping no one would ask questions so it wouldn’t have to confront this stuff…which is specifically WHY I initially replied and am laying down questions lol sorry dude, it’s time you and us had a little talk about your plans…maybe it’s off-topic but like, is saving a dude’s ass ever off-topic?)

“You just described common law marriage (unless I misunderstand you) as the alternative, unless there’s some effective loophole that will never be closed to make that LTR pie in the sky under the same roof deal work…”

You need to do your fucking research man. This is your LIFE.

1) Common Law marriage is NOT in every state

2) “If you live in one of the common law states and don’t want your relationship to become a common law marriage, you must be clear that it is your intention not to marry. The attorneys who wrote Living Together (additional information below) recommend an agreement in writing that both partners sign and date: “Jane Smith and John Doe agree as follows: That they’ve been and plan to continue living together as two free, independent beings and that neither has ever intended to enter into any form of marriage, common law or otherwise.””

You are paying lip service to the Red Pill talking about how you’re super prepared hoping we won’t question it, but you haven’t ACTUALLY done any research. Because doing that research is “too negative” and/or would give you alternatives to the nice easy FI-based path that your brain has been conditioned to want to go along with and not question as you slide your neck into the noose.

That’s why you can’t directly answer the questions I’ve been asking, you keep skirting around answering them. You’ve skimmed the safety manual on skydiving and are about to jump out of the plane going “ehh, if my chute doesn’t open when I’m in the air, and at the same time if I look at my chute before I jump out I find it’s broken and won’t open, then either way my chute won’t open so I might as well jump out without checking it first”.

on July 20th, 2016 at 2:19 pm
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“it will be difficult to explain why you want to get married without getting lambasted in some form, lol”

The problem is he’s not explaining why he wants to get married. He’s explaining that he can’t see a reason not to, and he’s explaining that he doesn’t have a view of raising healthy kids that doesn’t involve the legal contract.

Those are NOT the same things as explaining why he wants to get married. He doesn’t KNOW why he wants to get married…he thinks he wants to get married to have kids, but when we tell him he doesn’t need to be married to have kids, or a life-long relationship living together, he ignores this information because it doesn’t fit his FI-conditioned view of things or he doesn’t want to admit that his girl won’t stay with him and have kids if he doesn’t marry her (which is not abundance mentality, or “on my terms” at all like he originally said, and he should be made aware of that by having to confront it).

He hasn’t done his research to actually understand common law marriage because alternatives would mean not doing what he’s socially conditioned to do. This is a guy who is just following his social conditioning.

on July 20th, 2016 at 2:45 pm
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“Exactly. As I rather suspected he couldn’t, on objective grounds.”

This. This is actually a great case-study in guys who are Red Pill aware but still FI-conditioned and aren’t even aware of it. This is a guy who’s running on his social programming and is not taking necessary precautions or looking up necessary information to protect himself. Full NRE/unicorn/NAWALT in effect regardless of what he’s saying (what he’s saying and what he’s doing are two opposite things).

“@Sentient & Blaximus:
As a prophylactic notation, nothing I have been talking about has anything to do with advising against settling down in a very, very fine house, with two cats in the yard and a flock of rug rats.”

lol also this. This isn’t an “LTRs are bad” debate, so let’s not go down that path. This isn’t even necessarily a monogamy debate. I’m not saying don’t settle down and have kids etc.

I’m saying don’t legally tie a noose around your neck to DO it. If dude wants to settle down, even into monogamy (while understanding how that changes the dynamics because he’s read Blackdragon and my posts I linked), it’s all good…BUT entering a legal marriage contract, on the grounds of “well I dunno, how else am I supposed to raise kids? Nothing is perfect”, that’s a whoooooooooole ‘nother can of worms.

on July 21st, 2016 at 3:27 am
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“When your wife/spouse/partner/baby mama/whatever sees the strong feelings you have towards your children, you know (or maybe you don’t know) the “I’ll do anything for them”, then she knows she’s got the real noose.”

Fantasy feel-good fluff. PLENTY of Dads who have strong feelings for their children get divorce raped. This is the exact same shit as an FI/BP-er telling an AFC “When girls see the strong feelings you have toward them and how nice you are to them, you know the “I’ll do anything for you”, then she’ll realize she loves you” and “When you marry her, showing her you have strong feelings toward her and that you want to take care of her, you know the “I’ll do anything for you”, then she’ll realize you’re a good man and will stay by your side forever” and “When your child is born and it looks at you with it’s cute little eyes, then you’ll feel a magical connection to it and become a virtuous man” etc etc

When you perpetuate this fantasy shit, it fucks guys over. They go into things blind and unprepared, hoping things just magically work out. This is the Red Pill. We deal with hard truths and realities to prepare men for what they’re actually in for.

@Sun Wukong @SJF
“Yes we need a succinct useful answer as to what to do instead of marriage if you want children…”

Do everything you would do in a marriage except get the legal contract that risks your entire fucking life.

“Will she buy in? Will she submit? Will she respect and trust?”

She will to YOU. Because you have Natural alpha red pill shit going on. It’s not that she’s a special unicorn. If she was married to a chode or you let yourself go, she would no longer follow most of those rules. AWALT.

“The problem is he’s not explaining why he wants to get married.”
“Hmmmm, you’re right. I missed this initially.”

I know, and most guys will, because they’re caught up in justifying their choices and/or trying to give guys hope and not to be negative, so they miss the little red flags in the guy’s writing. After we poked him with a few questions it’s VERY clear that he hasn’t done the necessary preparation. His social conditioning told him to do this and so he’s going to do it and every “well MY story of being an alpha male my whole life and then marrying my wife in a completely different marriage structure/era than 2016, worked out, so here’s an optimistic story for you buddy! :)” just helps his brain go “See?? WE’LL be the exception!! Don’t listen to the guys being negative, THEY all fucked up, YOU’LL be different, remember you gotta not be afraid of risk, real men aren’t afraid of risk and taking forks in the road, you want people to think you’re a real man right?”

“Raising healthy, well adjusted kids has nothing to do with the state, unless shit’s gone horribly wrong.”

This. That’s why I asked Big-Al the questions I did about how a legal contract the kid doesn’t see changes the quality of family life for him. Same with the other guy (too lazy to scroll up lol) Which they didn’t answer. And probably won’t because the answer goes against their social conditioning.

@SJF @Blaximus
“No guy that is good at being a man is uncomfortable with risk. I sense risk averse undertones in this not taking a fork in the road stuff.”
“Yup, risk is a thing to be managed, not feared. Nothing ventured…etc.”

These quotes are what Big-Al will use to justify entering a marriage system that is VASTLY different from the one you guys entered, without actually looking into alternatives and without studying up on legal information (he doesn’t know the first thing about common law marriage, because his brain hasn’t wanted to ACTUALLY look into it and find alternatives). Gotta be a man and take risks! Take that fork in the road once you find a unicorn!

“Some are appalled by us focusing on our differences–The SJF vs. YaReally shit–”
“I’m willing to move in that direction. As long as I’m not wrong for my demographic, YaRally? Are you Game?”

Listen. I don’t give a shit about what you want to focus on. What I give a shit about is that guys like Big-Al are reading all this Red Pill wisdom and STILL voluntarily heading off to the slaughter. Guys like Softek are reading all this Red Pill wisdom and STILL staying in shitty relationships.

I don’t care that you view this as your personal social outlet where you make friends and blog about cutting trees down and just want to hug eachother and create a hugbox where no one disagrees or brings up topics that make you sad. And I don’t care that I’m ruining your tea party by dropping uncomfortable truth bombs. The reality is you have to accept that as an old guy who got married under a VERY different version of marriage than a guy like Big-Al is walking into, YES, some of the stuff you say IS IRRELEVANT.

(5:10 and 10:45):

I know that’s frustrating, to have your life experiences dismissed and to have some of your views and ideas written off as outdated and no longer applicable, because you want really bad to still be relevant. But at the end of the day, you with your “take the fork in the road, trust me” UMC girls don’t go to nightclubs (but go to fucking EDM festivals) and are special unicorn NAWALTs if they have country club fathers, and ASD’s “olympic level fucking VS Madonnas” and Sentient’s “social conditioning isn’t real and technology doesn’t affect women” and redlight’s “go ahead and get married, when she sees you love your kids she’ll know SHE’S got the noose” bullshit FUCK GUYS UP by keeping them in the dark about the world around them that they have to deal with.

I don’t care if you don’t like me. This isn’t about you and me. This is about guys like Big-Al, Softek, etc who read Red Pill shit but never actually swallow the pill because guys like you are feeding their brains exactly what they want to hear so they can rationalize following their social conditioning and ending up blindsided all so you could feel important to some names on a computer screen.

If your experience is relevant to the situation, cool. If it’s not, and especially if it goes AGAINST what the guy involved in the situation needs to hear and know, then I will call that out. Because Big-Al is going to walk off to the slaughter “taking the fork in the road” to “be a man who’s not afraid of risk” and sign a legal contract in a COMPLETELY different era than you old guys signed yours with a woman raised in a completely different era than your wives were raised, because he’s being told that “social conditioning hasn’t increased” and “if you find the right girl she’ll be a special unicorn, just find one of those UMC girls who doesn’t go to nightclubs and has a good father” and “just make sure she isn’t an olympic level sport fucker and she’ll be NAWALT” and all that stuff is EXACTLY WHAT HIS BRAIN WANTS TO HEAR, so that he can voluntarily enter a legal contract that statistically will VERY likely fuck him for life (the dude is in his mid-20s!! He’s not even in his 30s yet…how many years could he possibly have spent learning how to vet and then vetting this girl?), without doing ANY OF HIS DUE DILIGENCE HOMEWORK (understanding common law nuances should be DAY ONE of ACTUALLY doing his homework, but he didn’t do it, because his brain doesn’t WANT to find anything that isn’t rationalizing the path he’s been socially conditioned to take without questioning, which all this shitty advice is helping him take).

So ya, sorry if you want to pour more tea and hand out cookies and my bringing this shit up is ruining that for you, but Big-Al is giving off all the warning signs of a guy who’s walking into something just because he’s been conditioned to do so. And he’s not the only one, tons of lurkers and future guys will be reading this shit. It’s important that we address the elephants in the room instead of brushing them under the carpet because you want some kind of truce in some imaginary war you think is going on between us in your social club.

@Culum Struan
“There was no reason for her to come and start a conversation about my Kindle unless it was to talk to me – she can google any information she really wants.”

You got it. Like Cajun puts it on his Keys to the VIP intro: “She could order a drink ANYWHERE in the bar but she chooses to stand right beside you to order it”

“Couldn’t do much more – it was nearly time to land, but it was a good moment.”

At the end of their shift usually flight crew get drunk at their hotel’s lounge. She may have been ending her shift there and been down to go for a drink. You could prod for that information…”You seem like you’re bored out of your mind…almost done your shift for today? Oh ya, have you stayed here before? hmmmm so then you HAVEN’T been to Lounge Name? They have the best (bla bla)” etc etc

“found some way to sexualize or bring in sexual innuendo – perhaps teased her about using Kindle as a shield to prevent guys hitting on her?”

I’d have said I’m reading 50 Shades of Gray and then jokingly “quoted” it to her “As he gaze upon her ample bosom, the burning in her loins–”

“And also she wanted to talk more (invest) and once or twice I cut her off midsentence when I should have just let her keep talking. But I noticed and stopped myself doing that.”

Ya, let her invest as much as possible. The more she invests the more she wants a return on her investment. Let her blab and then since you know you have A2 (especially if you make some sexual innuendo/joke), throw in a qualifier like “hmmm, you must get a lot of reading done on this job I guess, that’s good I like smart girls” to go to A3 (showing intent/interest) with the “You sound bored out of your mind…almost done your shift for today?” and then into the invite (get her to write her number down on something “since I can’t turn my phone on during the flight or you’ll have to (insert innuendo about her punishing you, like maybe a 50 Shades of Gray/spanking reference)”, or get her to type it into your Kindle (can you type notes on those?) so no one else hears her number).

“PS – Red eye flight, I’d hardly slept, I hadn’t shaved, my clothes and hair were rumpled and I looked a mess. Didn’t seem to matter.”

Of course not lol Good work in general even recognizing the iois and doing laser eye-contact and thinking about how you COULD have done it. Now you have a gameplan for the next time a hired gun flirts with you: qualify, statement of intent/interest, then ask if she’s almost off her shift and lead to an insta-date for right after or later that night.

Some motivation for your next flight (and good examples of calibrating/recovering, holding frame when his joke falls flat, escalating on iois (after not being sure if it’s an ioi), entitlement, passing shit-tests, qualifying her, seizing the moment, etc):

Good luck with your blitz!

on July 21st, 2016 at 4:44 am
Original Link

“Further, I suspect that not getting married to the baby mama, even if you are monogamously in an LTR with her, will help rather than hinder the stability of the relationship. I think it makes any passive dread you muster more effective (even if just slightly) and that will help maintain a healthy relationship.”

This. The catch, which is why I’m putting Big-Al under the microscope, is that if he did he research and read those links I linked by myself (where I talk about how monogamy/marriage hamper your ability to run dread game etc in-depth) and Blackdragon and really understood dread etc, he would know that the legal contract and monogamy are more likely to kill attraction and sabotage his abundance mentality, than help it. If he understood that, then he wouldn’t be volunteering to go tie his hands.

But the reason guys will read about this stuff and then STILL go get married is because deep down they know “if I don’t give her marriage, she won’t stay with me and have kids with me”, which is inherently NOT an abundance mentality, which reveals they don’t ACTUALLY have one, and indicates that the reason they’re getting married isn’t because it’s in their best interest, it’s because they’re in scarcity and don’t have a strong enough frame or experience or entitlement to refuse the legal contract.

And that’s very much NOT how the guy presented himself originally and is not in line with a guy who’s done is research or is well-equipped/experienced enough to make a Red Pill marriage work. That’s a guy who doesn’t realize he’s fooling himself.

Like I say, Big-Al: what benefits are there to you to get legally married in a year, VS in 5 years or 10 years or never, if you don’t plan to leave her and you truly have an abundance mentality where you don’t worry about her leaving you, and if your kid never has any idea his parents don’t have a legal piece of paper? Can you list the actual benefits to you?

Because “well it’s pretty much the same as common law anyway isn’t it?” isn’t a benefit to you, that’s a sidestep to avoid answering.

“And even if it the relationship ends, she may well be able to get custody and child support, at least she won’t get alimony.”

This. What is this mentality of “well statistically I’m probably going to lose this poker hand, but hey I’ve already got half my chips in there so I might as well go all-in, it’s pretty much the same thing” No, it’s not.

on July 21st, 2016 at 5:40 am
Original Link

“I’m actually married, both our N=1 (assuming she hasn’t cheated on me), and further, in a semi long distance right now (no kids at least).”

“Further she started giving strong hints that now she would want kids and I don’t.”

lol wtf you DON’T want kids with her but you got married AND are long-distance?? How does this shit happen lol

The unfortunate news as I explain in my pLTR stuff, is that you can ALWAYS become MORE committed, but you can never become LESS committed. If you’re a player with a harem and commit to a monoLTR, that’s her WINNING and gaining something, if you’re in an LTR and commit to marriage, that’s her winning/gaining something. She feels like she’s giving you enough value for you to choose her over the others.

But when you try to go the OTHER way, from more commitment to less commitment, that’s her LOSING something. She’s losing stability, reassurance, potentially losing providership, etc and the only reason you’d want less commitment is because she’s not providing enough value for you which has her worry that you’ll leave her for another woman.

This is why I push the pLTR thing if you’re gonna do relationships…like Big-Al is going to dive headfirst into full commitment instead of making her earn it. He can ALWAYS date, monoLTR, live with, have kids with, etc her now and then get married to her in 5 or 10 years, there’s NO reason to do it NOW (except that probably he thinks she won’t have kids with him if he doesn’t legally marry her).

So by default going backwards you’re probably going to get drama. Now if she’s been a complete bitch or misbehaved or in some way done something bad that you can use as an EXCUSE to go backwards, you’re still in an uphill battle but that’s not as bad as if she hasn’t actually done anything wrong. Like if she’s a good wife and you just out of the blue pull out “ya I think I wanna get a divorce”, I can’t see a way you aren’t going to get unreal loads of drama from that lol

You’re basically saying “I regret committing to you” which makes it hard to then stay with her and have her trust that you’re going to commit to her someday because you already did a take-backsies. Like, for her own safety she’d need to be looking for other options who won’t reverse course on her when she hits the wall or needs him to provide.

Is this a distance thing, like the sex isn’t frequent enough so you want permission or a safe way to bang other girls while she’s unavailable for sex? Or is it purely a dread move but you’re otherwise happy in the relationship? Is it just to make sure you don’t have the legal noose around your neck but otherwise you see yourself wanting kids etc with her down the road?

Like what do you WANT exactly? Like what do you want this relationship and your lifestyle to look like? Do you even really know right now?

on July 21st, 2016 at 6:01 am
Original Link

@Nature Boy @redlight
“I took redlight’s comment about the “real noose” the opposite way. I think he’s saying that the guy’s desire to see his kids on the regular can be more useful to her that the technical legal power she has over him in a divorce.”

Whoops, if that’s the case then my bad and disregard my comment to him. I took it as her viewing herself as having the noose around her neck, like when she sees his passion for his kids he’s going to do everything he can in a court battle to fight for them and get custody instead of her so she would feel like she’s the one risking everything.

So ya, disregard if I interpreted that wrong lol I agree completely with Nature Boy’s explanation of it.

Which comes back to: kids are a hook. Once you have kids, unless you don’t care about them, she knows you’re on the hook and less able to walk out on her. And even if you don’t care about them, the legal system will make sure you pay child support etc after a divorce. So by DEFAULT having kids is going to cripple your ability to bail.

Lemme illustrate a traditional relationship:

You decide to be monogamous because she’s your unicorn. And you don’t work with hot bottle models in Vegas while having the restraint not to cheat on her. So you’ve decided to stick your neck around 20% into the noose, you’ve got about 20% more outcome dependence, because you’ll start losing your game/confidence over time when your brain isn’t gathering reference experiences that you’re attractive to women anymore, especially as you get older. So you start to “need” her more because the prospect of going back to hitting up the bars and singles scene in your 30s or 40s or 50s is scary.

But you know what, if you have a Red Pill frame, you might make that work.

Now let’s move in together and combine our bills and put our names on the house and all that shit because that’s what you do…now it’s difficult to move out, it’s a big hassle, it’s hard to get away when you two fight, you can’t just go back to your bachelor pad and leave her with some dread that you might be banging those female friends you still have from your single days etc…it would be a BIG HASSLE to move out. Now you’re about 40% in the noose. 40% more outcome dependence.

If you have a really strong Red Pill frame, you might make that work.

But that’s not difficult enough, you decide. You really wanna challenge yourself, so you throw in legal MARRIAGE too, where she can take half your assets and get alimony if this early/mid-20s girl decides in 10-15-20 years that she’s “unhaaaappy”. Now you’re 80% in the noose. You risk a lot of punishment if things don’t work out, while she gets mostly cash & prizes if it doesn’t work out. You are inherently put in a position of being like 80% more outcome dependent than you were at the start.

But you might even manage to work around that, with enough Red Pill game, and make that situation work.

So then you decide to finally have kids. Great! Except that you don’t want to lose them and the family courts will be heavily in her favor etc, plus all of the above stuff, and congrats, you are now 100% outcome dependent. You NEED this relationship to stay together and work out. If she threatens to leave, that has SERIOUS IMPACT now, that it wouldn’t have had if you weren’t 100% in the noose.

And if you have Blaximus’ frame, you MIGHT even make that work. But if you’re here, reading this shit, then you weren’t born and raised as a Blaximus. And even Blaximus got burned his first go-around.

But if you take out monogamy and you take out marriage, and you make sure that even if you live together you have a separate space you can go to to build dread when you need to punish her, and you have plans on how to keep yourself around attractive women to create dread and keep your abundance mentality up, etc etc and then you have kids, you’re only around 50% in the noose. It would be rough if she bailed, you’d have to fight over your kids, but otherwise you’re not THAT bad off so you have more room to assert your authority and run dread game and she has more incentive to behave.

You are not getting anything more for the monogamy and legal contracts and removing other women from your life and putting the house and your bank accounts in her name and buying her a ring and throwing a big wedding and signing shit that gives her the ability to fuck you over etc. The only reason you do that is because you think she won’t stay with you and have kids with you if you don’t. That is not abundance mentality and outcome independence. That is the OPPOSITE.

on July 21st, 2016 at 6:16 am
Original Link

“You are describing vowing fidelity without fidelity vows.”


“If you are going to promise the rest of your lives together, then do it. Don’t half-ass around it.”

Why? Serious question. To “be a man”? Because it’s a “romantic notion”?

Doing it involves putting YOUR ENTIRE LIFE AND FUTURE AND WELL-BEING AT RISK, with her putting NOTHING at risk. It is a completely lopsided one-way contract AND she is MASSIVELY incentivized to BREAK that contract because she will be rewarded with cash, prizes, attention, victim sympathy, your kids, alimony, etc, etc, etc

So again: Why “do it”? Give us a reason.

“Same with the relationship without marriage you described above. Not being legally married improves nothing in this point.”

Do you know what alimony is?

“I don’t know how it works in the US, but in my juristiction living together is basically the same thing as being married.”

Again, read the link I posted. You can move to a state without common-law, or you can draft up an agreement saying you both don’t want to be subject to common-law rules. So you can nullify this.

“But having her take a solemn vow also helps.”

You cannot negotiate desire. Attraction is not a choice. She is massively incentivized to not keep that vow. Every married chick my buddies and I have fucked has taken that “solemn vow”. It means fuck all.

“Mom, where is your engagement ring?”

Buy her one. But don’t sign a legal marriage contract.

“Mom, where are you wedding photos?”

Throw a wedding. But don’t sign a legal marriage contract.

“Dad, why did you tell the census lady that you are legally single?”

When the 0.00001% chance this happens arrives and the Census lady shows up, tell him to go in his room while you handle adult business.

“Dad, why won’t you marry Mom? Don’t you love her?”

Teach him that choosing someone every day is a better demonstration of love than forcing someone into a legally binding contract that tells them they HAVE to love you or they’ll be punished. There are a million ways to explain this.

“Even for the older children, it makes a difference.”


“My Dad and Mom are married for almost 30 years, and are a huge example for me.”

If they were together for 30 years, as loving and amazing as they are, with a ring and wedding photos etc, but simply didn’t have a legal document that puts your dad in a noose signed, would you think “ugh, these two are a shitty example. They don’t even love eachother, relationships are shit and my home is broken”?

“In contrast, last weekend I was helping a buddy out deal with his grievances about his parents not sleeping in the same bedroom anymore.”

How is that possible? They made solemn vows. You don’t negatotiate love/desire. There is no reason to sign a legal contract, it will not keep two people together and will actively force the man to be more outcome dependent. If he has rock solid Red Pill mindsets and game, he MIGHT overcome handicapping himself like that, but he will be in a much better position if his wife knows he can leave.

“I don’t plan to leave her, having the contract or not, for the sake of children”

Okay, so you aren’t worried about you leaving her. So the contract is unneccesary to keep you in the relationship.

“The risk is the same, contract or not.”

Then there’s no reason to sign a contract that reduces your attractiveness by forcing you into outcome dependence.

“Again, you want a vow of fidelity without fidelity vows.”


“A vow of fidelity WITH fidelity vows is stronger.”

This is imaginary fluff. Ask any of the married women we’ve all fucked who’ve made those vows. You cannot negotiate desire and attraction is not a choice. The vows mean nothing, especially in 2016 where ALL OF SOCIETY is encouraging her to BREAK those vows. In the old days, when it was all “under god” and communities were heavily religious and women were shamed for divorcing their family etc etc, sure, that vow counted. Now it’s just fluff people say as part of a ceremony, that means nothing…but comes with the guy putting his head in a one-way noose and the girl incentivized to kick the stool out from under him.

on July 21st, 2016 at 6:18 am
Original Link

@Andy @IWantAProle
“lol. You must be new here. Watch this:”

lol definitely watch that clip. But of course, that woman and all the married girls we’ve all fucked will be ruled off as Whores, not Madonna/unicorns like the women these guys will select as their wives. They’ll find the magic NAWALTs. Probably some UMC girl who doesn’t go to nightclubs and doesn’t make an olympic sport out of fucking, SHE’LL be the special NAWALT but we won’t call her that even though everything else we say points to us believing she’s that.

on July 21st, 2016 at 2:14 pm
Original Link

“I’m checking out some of this stuff since I’ve heard mention of this Secret Garden book a few times.”

“I don’t expect to be surprised by anything regarding women and/or their sexual proclivities.”

“Such irony this debate on a board where the host is married for so long and apparently so well…?”

I know right? Personally I’d like you Rollo and SJF to share your time travel machines with us so I can grab one of those hoverboards while I’m in the future. You know, the time travel machines you guys used to come to the future and get married in 2016 to an early 20s woman raised in modern social media Tinder Eat Pray Love divorce-party culture.

Lion in a home is a lot different than a lion in the wild. It’s a jungle out there in 2016.

“But not so much AWALT when it means she will follow a strong male, likes confidence, likes dominance, respects what respect is earned… etc. ”

Oh, AWALT is true. But 1) does Big-Al strike you as a strong confident dominant respect-worthy alpha male who’s going to hold his frame for the next 40+ years? And 2) if she’s young enough, she can still find a new strong confident dominant alpha male to respect after the cash & prizes 6-figure-salary divorce from her first hubby.

on July 21st, 2016 at 3:22 pm
Original Link

“I can’t think of what a woman could say that would surprise me at this point.”

There’s no benefit to a legal marriage contract for a man except that he gets to escape upsetting his wife with a bad feels conversation. You know, that fear thing.

on July 21st, 2016 at 5:47 pm
Original Link

@Anonymous Reader
“It’s like deciding to learn to fly an ultralight in the Rockies, or ride a motorcycle in LA rush hour traffic – yeah, ok, go for it…but there’s some things you reaaallllly oughta know, man.”

Nah brah, that’s just FEAR. You’re just a cowardly pussy who’s scared to take the fork in the road if you don’t just hop on the motorcycle and gun it without any training. I’ve been riding a skateboard I bought 20 years ago and I haven’t crashed, probably ’cause I’m not a pussy little lazy bitch like these idiots that crash their motorcycles without any training.

Instructions are for pussies. Also don’t listen to the FI that tells you what being masculine and manly is. Just listen to ME and do what I tell you to do instead, ’cause I’m a super badass.

Now I’m not saying you should ride a motorcycle, I’m just saying you should ride a motorcycle or you’re a cowardly pussy. Lemme go dig out some Roosevelt quotes to convince you to do something that comes with nothing but risk that the Red Pill community has been (rightfully) helping push guys away from for fucking YEARS, because I decided to do it and I want to justify my actions by throwing some other guys into the fire…that way if they succeed too, I can say I’m right, and if they fail and get divorce raped and fucked, well hey, they were just stupid pussies anyway, so fuck em!

on July 24th, 2016 at 8:50 am
Original Link

“I stayed in dhv/flirting/teasing until she started qualifying and showing real interest. Took weeks of intermittent contact. ”

So you properly looped A1 until she was showing A2 and qualifying herself even without you qualifying her, so she’s chasing your A3.

“I’m providing some business input that is relevant to her but I personalized it to the point where started reaching out to me, like all day and night long over the past few days, just chatting with me about her life”

Here you’re giving her deeper rapport, but she’s still chasing your A3.

“Key – she’s reaching for me, she’s pulling me towards her. I’ve driven her mad with value demonstrations as she’s a neophyte in a business I’m an expert in. But I don’t let her turn me into just “providing” free advice, rather I’ve spiked her and teased her and woven in personal gambits and questions and funny stories. She’s mesmerized”

Here you’re not handing away your attention/validation/time/interest/advice (basically “The Scribblerg Experience”, the all-encompassing package of value that is YOU, that you give to the people who earn a place in your life), and are qualifying her and testing her and making her keep trying to earn your actual interest beyond just you self-amusing with your teases and questions.

“Sidenote: In the past, I would been pissed by this, snobby hot girl, teasing about green screen.”

I use the Hank Moody approach of being “an analog guy in a digital world”, like no, I don’t know how to use Instagram, I’m too old to know or care that’s for teenage girls and little boys.

“But now I just saw it as an opportunity to move her to my “personal phone” which shows up blue and is native iPhone.”

Good, this is the difference between moving things FORWARD VS just text-chatting and moving things sideways not going anywhere. A lot of guys would just fluff about the subject, but you used to to push the relationship forward. I would qualify her first like “I dunno, I’d switch to my personal phone but you might leave me drunk 2am voicemails telling me you love me” A lot of times that in-joke will result in them doing just that, as a “joke” when they’re drunk & horny.

“Tell her she’s been upgraded, BS a bit more.”

More DHVing. So at this point you’re showing minor interest in her, so you’re starting to let her have a taste of A3.

“I’m teasing, but what I’ve also been doing is DHVing much harder.”

There’s no downside to DHV’ing lol You CAN DHV so high that she feels like she doesn’t deserve you (which is hilarious and guys should do it once in a while for the mindfuck of a hot girl DISQUALIFYING herself from deserving your old ass lol) but if that happens you just either self-depreciate or confess insecurities/flaws to bring your value back down and/or point out something about her that helps her bring her value up in her mind, until you reach the balance in her mind where you’re high-value but not quite out of her league to try to get.

“And low and behold the interest and attraction spikes are coming”

Of course they are. You’re following Mystery Method properly and running proper game, not just winging shit like a guy playing random cards in poker. It’s an interesting feeling, like having omnipotence in a way, hey? This is exactly what’s supposed to happen because you followed the rules. πŸ™‚

“It’s not really about being a dick as much as it is having a sense of timing and dynamics. I don’t think I’ll ever have a script but I do have a volume knob and I know when to push and pull with her.”

That’s good enough a lot of the time. The actual routine/script is just for training (till you have the structure understood and internalized and can wing shit on your own) and for efficiency. Like you’re going slower with her than you technically NEED to. Like Scray is probably pulling his hair out saying “JUST TELL HER TO COME SUCK YOUR DICK ALREADY AGHHH!!!” reading this lol But as long as you’re having fun with the interaction and pushing things forward and consciously understand what you’re doing and why it’s working, it’s all good. I sometimes go slower than I need to just because I feel like experiencing the full interaction. Like a lot of my Day2s I COULD just pull after the first 15 min or the first drink, but it’s that thing of like we both KNOW the end of the movie will be fun (sex) so why fast-forward through the movie to get to it if it’s a fun movie?

“she mentions that she didn’t get the iPhone 6+ that I have because “I don’t want my boyfriends to see what I’m doing.”

lol beautiful. So many good things in that. She’s telling you that she isn’t looking for anything serious (of course she WILL be if you show too much Provider side lol) and testing to see if you’re insecure/jealous or will eject yourself (I’ve had girls send me pics of other guys they’re seeing or exes who are jacked as fuck or in expensive cars etc, to see how I react).

I like to keep the frame of it’s cute that you have all these little boys running around confused and chasing you, but you’re talking to a MAN now. Like I will NEVER refer to their guys as anything but “boys”. “Aww is your boy getting jealous?” even if he’s a 5 year serious LTR older than me, he’s a “boy” when I refer to him, to separate us and set that frame in her mind.

“I agree and claim the same problem.”

Solid. When girls send me horrible Tinder chode convos and stuff I’ll send them ugly Tinder girls and be like “you think that’s bad look at the shit I gotta deal with” or I’ll send ugly crazy cat lady Tinder girls and be like “you’ve got competition” etc to tease.

The reality is hot people have sex. They date around. They have side-lays. And hot people who are high-value and used to this KNOW that. Like it’s NORMAL to me that if I walk down the street with a 9 on my arm, guys will try to mack her or shout at us or try to move in on her when I go to the bathroom, she’ll have a dozen orbiters blowing her phone up, etc etc And she’ll probably have an ex or something she’s fucking when I’m not available, or a Provider guy who will take her on romantic dates that I’m not providing.

It’s totally fine. And hot girls know that I’ve probably got girls on the go. A chick who recently came back into my life (LSNFTE ended) just ASSUMES that I’ve been banging girls every night out because in her mind Solipsism + Hypergamy = “if *I* think he’s sexy and high-value then other girls MUST think that too and if he can bang ME he must be able to bang other girls at LEAST as hot as me”. And it’s attractive to her that I’m so casual about having other girls.

It’s usually the insecure 6-8s who you give a bit too much of a taste the Provider experience to (like cuddling up to Netflix one night or meeting her friends etc) that get possessive and dramatic about you having other girls, because they feel like you might bail on them if they get attached and you’re triggering Lover AND Provider boxes so they know they’ll probably get attached etc

Attractive people FUCK. That’s how it works. Re-read Secret Society by Tyler Durden. And that’s ATTRACTIVE people. Not necessarily HOT people. There’s a difference (and men’s Attractive is different than women’s Attractive).

“I feel like this was still a value test, like she’s trying to see if I’m going to take this as a real temp increase or buying sign, but I know she’s teasing me. Playing with me. I like it, and reciprocate. She gets giddier.”

She’s figuring out what kind of guy you are. If you over-reacted or got insecure/defensive or started qualifying yourself to her like trying to compete with her other boys, she’d know she has more value than you and that you’ll probably fall for her and become drama over time. But instead you demonstrated that you’re high-value and have abundance mindsets, so you get an Attraction spike.

“She starts telling me about how some guy took her phone and read all her shit. Back and forth on that, I don’t see a hot hook so I let it just continue to simmer. She then starts going on about men who befriend her, numerous texts, I tell her I can explain that to her, but we need to discuss it and she jumps at the chance to talk.”

lol rock solid stuff here. Obviously push this to a meetup in person ASAP (don’t give the milk away for free, you’ve DHV’ed enough that you need to take away your attention and only give it back to her if she meets up with you where you can escalate to sex). But like, all of this is solid.

And when a girl is venting to you about chodey guys like that, it means YOU’RE NOT ONE OF THEM TO HER. It’s an indicator that you have successfully put yourself in a different category from all those guys because she wouldn’t tell you about them if you were one of them. So when you pick up on this you understand how much of a green-light you have, you know?

If you want a laugh, get her to show you these guys texts/profiles or whatever when you’ve banged her. A lot of them will be good-looking rich dudes while she’s cuddled up to your old chubby belly lol It’s good for fully internalizing the looks don’t matter stuff. Most guys are so insecure they don’t even WANT to see their competition cause it’ll make them feel bad about themselves comparing themselves to those guys. Whereas in my mind I don’t compare myself to them…they’re BOYS. I’m a MAN. We are different categories completely. A lion doesn’t compare himself to jackals and hyenas and lion cubs.

“She talks more about “guys who are friends who then hit on her”. I take it apart, she’s fascinated by psychology and quite smart. I show her how she doesn’t respect them for doing so.”

You gotta understand how rare it is for her to meet a guy with this ability to see and understand and explain the world. Most people just walk around in a zombie haze with no self-awareness. Women TRY to develop self-awareness when they go on their woowoo self-help discover myself kicks but they don’t stick to it and don’t really get it because they don’t have the same sort of struggles men have…maybe an ugly girl, but a hot girl has such a cushiony life that self-help doesn’t really do much for her.

So when an older guy comes in and is like, explaining how the world works, think of the intense feeling you got when you had your first revelations of Red Pill stuff like an interaction followed a prediction or confirmed or blew your mind about something and rocked your world. Now imagine ONE PERSON was FEEDING you that feeling over and over. You would view that person as insane value. Like I’m an asshole but the reason Red Pill guys love me despite that, is because when they read my posts I connect the dots for them and clarify shit and give them that feeling of “holy fuck that makes complete sense!!” and that feeling is attributed to ME because I’m the one writing it out for them.

So like, understand how far ahead of the rest of the WORLD you are with just understanding basic self-help and having self-awareness and Red Pill knowledge.

“I also realize this is a massive shit test, but also an opportunity to sexualize.”

Good. Remember, don’t get caught up in just good feels, push things FORWARD toward your GOAL aka fucking her. Sexualize that shit. You have WAY more than enough A2 to do that.

“I say, “But I also know you have an ulterior motive in saying all this, but here’s the thing. I don’t have a hidden agenda – I think you are a pretty young woman and sure, I find you attractive. So what?”

At first I was like ehhhh ballsy but risky…but then you threw the so what at the end and nailed it. Perfect. That’s the same frame as Mystery’s “sure you’re beautiful…but beauty is common. What ELSE do you have going for you?” or “What’s RARE is 1) a good personality, 2) intelligence, and 3) a girl who can make me laugh…you have 2 out of 3 so that’s not bad. ;)” etc etc

Like NOW you can see WHY/HOW that works, right? This is all completely logical and predictable.

So that’s A3, you’ve been qualifying her and finally give her your SOI but even THEN you qualify her. Perfect. Your interest has VALUE. It’s to be EARNED. You don’t just give it out to any girl who smiles at you or even worse any girl who hasn’t EVEN smiled at you.

This is why I prefer indirect over direct game. I like the frame of the girl chasing me, especially in 2016 where as you can see a hot girl has TONS of orbiters all chasing her…why not stand out from the pack? It’s slower, but there’s something about that hot girl desiring you shit that hits primal instincts and feels good.

“I go on to destroy friendzoned guys and describe an open sexuality that I live- which she admits she’s had for years and thinks is best. LMFAO. Like butta’…”

Good, now you’re sharing your frame and that you’re into casual sex, which is the frame she lives in, so in her mind you are going to fit in her world perfectly. You’re not going to come get jealous and weird and fuck her Provider/Sugar Daddy side relationships up etc, you’re just going to be fun no-strings attached sex. Win/win to her.

“By this point, I can feel her submitting. I think you guys must know this, that sweet moment when a woman just relaxes and is giddy and curls up inside your frame. She’s loving it. She’s investing.”

Right, there’s a point where what she’s doing isn’t shit-testing you anymore…it’s trying to learn ABOUT you, she wants to know about this guy she’s so Attracted to. That’s when you MEET UP AND FUCK HER lol Don’t give into the temptation to just keep the relationship to text/phone because there’s a point where she’ll think you don’t “just get it” and miss the window or will learn too MUCH about you and get enough validation/knowledge/feels to not NEED to meet up. Cat-string theory, you give her just enough to get her to leap for the string and dangle the string just out of reach for her to try again.

Push to meet up for “dinner to discuss business” (avoid triggering ASD, she knows it’s for sex) in a good logistical Day2 location you can pull back to your place and it should be a done deal.

“I tell her she’s too young for me and then change the subject.”

Solid. Note that YOU ARE AN OLD AS FUCK MAN. And you are TELLING A YOUNG HOTTIE that *SHE* is *TOO YOUNG* for *YOU* lol Like, REALLY process the absurdity of that to a Blue Pill world. PUAs are the exception to the rules.

“She brings it back up, guesses my age at 38”

At this point she’s basically filling in fantasy details about you because she’s attracted. Again this is stuff where you want to not get caught up in the validation. Instead something like “I’ll tell you over dinner. To discuss business of course. Are you free Tuesday night?” (with a hot girl with tons of orbiters I would pick a non Fri/Sat night because she’ll often have plans fri/sat already or have to explain to too many people what she’s doing etc, VS a Tuesday night where no she can sneak out to spend the night with you and her social circles aren’t poking her)

“I bat her away again, tease her about the 3rd degree and how personal she’s getting. She’s absolutely like a little kitten that I’m dangling yarn in front of now, she’s so easily pleased and transfixed.”

Again standard cat-string theory. This is all very logical and predictable. BECAUSE YOU RAN GAME PROPERLY.

“I also subtly brought up logistics for a possible weekend get together but again, just laying some subtle info. Example: Told her my weekend opened up due to a friend pushing plans till next weekend, which is actually true.”


“She’s telling me how bored she is.”

This is bait obviously. You CAN pounce on it but you don’t HAVE to. You’re in NO DANGER of her losing attraction right now.

“I don’t bite. I’m building the suspense, letting her wonder and get more excited. She’s already texted me again since I started writing this FR.”

Good. This is the “artist” part of pickup ARTIST. Seduction is an artform. She is having more fun chasing you than she’s had with any guy in YEARS probably. Just be sure to not give her too much for free and push things toward a face to face meetup where I can’t imagine there being ANY problem escalating to sex given all the A2 she’s giving you in this FR.

“Will close her for a weekend visit up here. Get her to drive to me, he he.”

Good man. The more she has to invest the more she’ll want the prize to justify the investment. If she balks at ALL on driving up just do a full takeaway. “but that’s too far I can’t drive that far what are we going to do there??” “lol it’s cool don’t worry about it maybe another time. Now quit distracting me troublemaker, I gotta get some work done” and freeze her out completely until she finally txts “ok where is this place?” and then you don’t acknowledge any of the resistance stuff, you just provide her the address and instructions etc and treat her as if she had immediately agreed to meet up. Nice and smooth.

“I felt like I could see the big picture. I was patient. Not thirsty. And get this, she’s coming at me. @Rocket You can do this. It isn’t easy, but women have weird buttons you can push to generate interest.”

Attraction is not a choice. What we do works because it’s reverse engineered from how seduction happens regardless of conscious game or blind AFC stumbling around in the dark luck. The biggest hurdle is the guys themselves properly executing it and not getting sidetracked by their emotions and self-doubts and fears and second-guesses and being too eager and being in scarcity etc etc etc

But when you properly execute, it should look like this.

“Another learning? It doesn’t have to make sense to me. Like I get that women operate differently and see things differently and allow a lot more room for that now.”

It CAN make sense to you. Like I say, all of this is totally logical. You did A1 till you had A2, then did A3 and some basic C1 and looped back to A1-A3 over and over with her with little dips into C1 here and there until you have this perfect setup. All you have to do now is get her face to face and don’t sabotage yourself by basking in the validation. Understand that now she’s hooked enough that you may have to TAKE AWAY your attention instead of giving MORE attention.

Giving her all your attention over txt/phone is girls game, they love that validation and feed off it and it can be as good as sex to them. But not for you lol So now you have hand in the relationship and it’s time for you to push things toward an actual meetup and be prepared to take away your value from her life so she FEELS the impact of missing that value and learns that if she wants “The Scribblerg Experience”, she needs to provide “The Hot Spinner Experience” lol

Good work dude. Great progress. And a good example of how it’s the structure that matters, not the actual routines/lines…the exact thing Mystery was trying to get across to guys 15 years ago.

@Culum Struan
I got shit to do today so I haven’t read anyone’s posts but skimmed yours and props on the chess strategy stuff and the mini AMOG poke, you’ve come a long way in the last year or so, keep it up and you’ll get more and more consciously competent infield. You’ll do shit you never imagined you could do a few years ago. Ask me how I know. πŸ˜‰

on July 24th, 2016 at 9:00 am
Original Link

lol that’s one hell of a book hey? It was written in like the 70s or some shit and yet here we all are under the Women Are Wonderful innocent virgin pure angels in thoughts words and actions effect 30-whatever years later. These things are just SITTING there for anyone to look at and start learning how women work.

Some relevant content for you to help digest/process all of this mindfuckery:

Not sure what to comment on your plan yet. Give it a couple weeks to really process all this new information you’re taking in right now and watch these vids etc. No reason to make any rash decisions yet. And then you’ll want to start to figure out what exactly you WANT in life, long-term, and we can all help you figure out how to get there, whether that involves staying with her or not.

Can’t remember do you have kids or not? And you’re legally married and living together right?

on July 24th, 2016 at 12:20 pm
Original Link

@Softek @Blaximus
“ding ding ding. When she realized I was not only NOT going to judge her for the fantasy, but could get really into it and play along, fasten your seatbelts. ”

It’s important to understand that the Blue Pill guys get a VERY DIFFERENT girl. They get the unicorn angel version of her that they are 100% convinced is a unicorn angel. Even Red Pill guys will get that side if she worries they’ll judge them (if she doesn’t care if they judge him then whatever, but if she views their opinion as holding weight or being the key to getting something (like commitment)).

It’s like Tyler says in the 3rd video I linked above, the guys at Jenny’s office think she’s an angel, they could never imagine her sucking face with Tyler or having fucked up sexual fantasies etc

Even in an LTR, for a lot of guys the more they get to know someone the harder it is to treat them like a slutty little whore in bed so the sex dies down. Like the chick you banged the first few times after a night of drinks and fun in her sexy outfit, isn’t the chick crawling into bed after burrito night wearing no makeup and ambivalent about having sex. The funniest is when your LTR is open or almost dead and you’re txting other girls and you’re texting other girls pimp dirty shit and they’re sending naked pics and sexual fantasies and then your LTR is like “ugh work sucked today” and you’re like “aww hope you feel better babe xoxoxo” then switch convos and it’s like “and then I’d bend you over the kitchen counter and–” lol

(that’s not Blax or some of you badasses who’s wives still fuck you 10x a day, I’m talking about the average dude esp the Blue Pill guys or the RP guys in their first relationships lol)

“Consider how many guys are horrified at the idea of getting rough or even spanking or vanilla shit like girls spitting on a guy’s cock and compared to that, you’ve got it made.”

Part of why my job is easy is because other guys are so lame in bed and have no idea they’re lame in bed.

“when they have to tell a guy they want it, it ruins the whole thing, especially if he sucks at it or is nervous/awkward doing it, vs. it being out of raw desire/passion/masculinity.”

A lot of it is just that it’s the ULTIMATE form of expressing yourself. Like you are fully congruent to your desires and wants and needs from her, not holding anything back, and that’s a huge turn-on. It’s not necessarily that you grab her by a fistful of hair, it’s that you were so overcome with passion that that’s something your body just DID because it wasn’t concerned about anything but what it wanted in that moment.

“My friend got a postcard one time from an ex-girlfriend that said ‘FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU’ about 70 times. She has the letter i in her name and she dotted it with a little heart at the end. Lmao.”

lolol that’s adorable. God I love women.

“When you guys get twenty years down the road and you’ve figured out your self and have gotten real power control over your circumstances, and control over the direction of your life”

I’d argue that I currently know myself better and have better power and control over the direction of my life and circumstances than most men married to shitty deadbedroom fat wives tugging around screaming kids aka dream-killers, who haven’t had a spare hour to do any real self-reflection or develop self-awareness let alone direct their lives anywhere to do anything with that. Like the dude my age I just passed walking down the street lugging 3 crying kids (one strapped to his chest and 2 more in a double-carriage, wife was too busy on her phone to help) and a fat wife, looking around like a lost child himself.

“In the meantime, don’t let their vast experiences in life and reflections mean anything at all to you.”

I’m sure there are things the guy who was “really good” at riding his BMX bicycle around the block with his friends growing up could teach me. But I also have access to the minds of guys with more experience, more success, and more knowledge than that guy, because this is the internet and those guys share their experiences. I can find out what the guys winning BMX races and doing crazy triple flip stunts think. There’s probably wisdom in the old stuff that’s applicable in 2016, but 20 years from now a lot of it won’t be relevant because the world changes.

Your words aren’t owed gravity just because you managed to not die for a while. Every time you condescendingly blather about how we aren’t listening to you and we don’t know ourselves and we don’t know struggle like you do and we’ve never had real fuck-ups and we’re just retarded young pups on the road of life who should listen to your sage wisdom, you just demonstrate that you can’t relate to our world. I can dig out 50 books and 50 videos tomorrow (and have read/watched a bunch of that shit already) by guys your age who’ve done better than you sharing the same wisdom and warnings you’re dropping that you think we’ve never heard before and can’t comprehend because we haven’t done the SJF-approved walk of life.

“I don’t judge you like I did before this past year. I hope to judge and accept you as a red pill tribal member.”

lol oh ya, really? What if Andy says he’s decided to leave his wife and kids and go chase pussy? I’m not saying he should, but what if he decided that’s what he wants in life and comes on here saying ya I’m bailing on this relationship and I don’t even want to take care of these kids, fuck this whole life, I’m outta here and leaving them tomorrow to move to Vegas.

Would you still accept him? Would you still not judge him? Would you still welcome him into the tribe and accept his decisions? Or are you just LARPing, paying lip-service saying feel-good tribal bullshit you read in a Deida book and in reality you won’t judge him and you’ll accept him…as long as he does what you want him to?

’cause I’ll accept him either way. Whether he decides to embrace the family life, or bail, or somewhere in between, as long as it’s HIS decision he’s made for himself based on understanding himself and what’s important to him. I don’t care if a guy is monogamous and pops out 50 kids, that’s cool with me, as long as he CHOSE that knowing his options and knowing what he wants in life and is living on his purpose (like you, SJF, seem to be that type, so good on you, whereas Softek is trapped in a thing he doesn’t really want to be in so I feel pity for him letting himself be stuck, and Scribblerg is going full-tilt fuck everything I want to bone some bitches and that’s cool too, all that matters to me is that the guy CHOOSES what he’s doing).

“But what is your wife not delivering? Is she a bitch? Does she not respect and admire you. Is she totally absorbed in the children, that you are neglected? Is she not attractive enough?”

Like I say to girls: “It doesn’t matter WHAT you’re like, you can be the perfect girl and give me everything I need, but I’ll still look at that hot girl in the short skirt over there and think “man I’d like to bend her over…””

It doesn’t always have anything to do with the woman in the relationship lacking anything. Not saying that’s Andy’s situation of course.

on July 24th, 2016 at 12:32 pm
Original Link

Oh Elon…how can you be so fucking smart and so fucking retarded at the same time?

on July 24th, 2016 at 5:00 pm
Original Link

YaReally being an asshole again oh no lol:

@theasdgamer @SJF
“Experience…are you sharper now than you were at 21? Do you think that experience might make you even sharper in ten years?”

Ya, I’ll hopefully be sharp enough to not be too arrogant and ego-invested to accept that my experiences have less relevance to the next generation who are growing up in a significantly different culture than I did, and sharp enough to not be so solipsistic as to not realize that I’m not the only old guy sharing my experiences as though I’m the only one dropping some big revelations that haven’t been covered a thousand times before in a thousand other places and that young pups like me have already heard this stuff (SJF doesn’t know what’s been on my bookshelf, and we have faster ways to consume information now, like a million videos and summary articles of books that we can consume in 10 minutes minus the fluff instead of spending a month reading it like SJF (who will probably pull out some woowoo shit about how reading slow and leisurely gives your brain more time to digest the content bla bla, lrn 2 lrn faster n00b)).

And hopefully I’m sharp enough to not be offended when some young pup 20 years my junior says “dude, I get it, you were the king of MySpace back in the day. But no one uses MySpace anymore and hasn’t in 10+ years. Some of your general advice will still apply to using Instahologram here in 2036, but like, you lived in a different time and culture and kids growing up using Instahologram are in a significantly different world. Don’t be offended if we aren’t listening to your sage wisdom about MySpace when we can pull up a thousand videos and articles and books by guys who were just as successful or more successful than you at that MySpace thing and/or combined it successfully with the Instahologram thing.”

Here’s SJF’s favorite book consumable in 11 hours:

Play it at 2x speed and I’ve consumed your magical insightful content in 6 hours.

And hell, here it is summarized in a few paragraphs (SPOILER ALERT):

I remember long passages about the so-called “classical view” versus the “romantic view” to look at or to do things. The former is a toroughly logical analysis of all the parts of the motorcycle. So to say understanding the motorcycle by putting it apart bit by bit, mentally or physically.

The difference to the romantic view is made clear in the discussion about the BMW of the protagonists friend, about him not maintaining it himself. He bought it, because it looks nice. He just wants to ride it. He doesn´t care what its parts are and how to take it apart and rebuilt it. It has to function and when it doesn´t, it´s a mechanics job to fix it. So this guy has no idea what the machine between his legs is doing or what the meaning of the kind of noises it makes.

But do you have to have a classical understanding of your bike to enjoy riding it? This being debatabe, is the root of a lot of unnecessary conflicts between people with a classical view and a romantic one. They just assume they are talking about the same thing whilst they have in reality a diametrically opposed understanding of the subject.

I can´t really remember if he actually reaches a satisfying synthesis in his mental dialog about the classical and the romantic view, but troughout the book, it is always about considering the other option to look at things.

As far as I remember, the biggest epiphanie for the protagonist is near the end of the book, when his son behinds him suddenly screams from the passenger seat how great a view this is. His son is standing up behind him for the first time and this is when the protagonist realizes, that all along the journey, his son only got to see the back of a leather jacket and a helmet for the most part. He never considered his sons point of view when trying to figure out why he hated the journey so much.

And fuck it, here’s it’s basic theme in a sentence: “The author compares the benefits of enjoying the moment vs the benefits of living analytically and eventually argues that we can hold both views at the same time.”

And surprise surprise I’ve heard most of these ideas through other sources, like Tyler videos, because he’s read these books and recommends some of them and summarizes others and brings out key RELEVANT points that are RELEVANT to guys in 2016.

I can pull out a fucking thousand zen, philosophy, psychology, Red Pill, etc podcasts, vlogs, discussions, articles, interviews, etc with top name people and people from all walks of life (shockingly guys with the same or more life experience than you) with one Google search and consume them all day long 24/7 if I want.

The thing you don’t get is that ALL you old guys have these amazing wonderful life experiences and ALL of you yap about them 24/7 to us young pups. We’ve been listening to it for years and I’ve noticed that a lot of the time the stuff you guys say has not only been covered a thousand times before but we’ve improved on whatever your ideas and philosophies you’ve learned from your experiences are.

I’m not trying to be a dick, I know this comes off as like I’m saying you’re useless. I’m not, I’m just saying get some fucking perspective and quit holding onto this idea that because you swam through a piranha river your advice is more sage and wise than the other dozen old guys who swam through that same shit and put it in E-Books and podcasts years ago that us young pups already consume.

Half the wisdom SJF drops is just cutting and pasting books and articles written by other old dudes. You think the Motorcycle Zen book is some obscure single copy collecting dust in a library corner that no one’s ever heard of until you brought it up? You think the things that guy writes about haven’t been covered in a dozen other books, videos, vlogs, articles, etc since he wrote them? Like that book is the one source of information available that has this shocking revelation in it and you have to be 20 years older to see the genius in “The author compares the benefits of enjoying the moment vs the benefits of living analytically and eventually argues that we can hold both views at the same time.”?

I mean, I’m sitting here educating Scribblerg, a guy who’s been through hell and back life-experience-wise and was a pimp with girls back in the day, about how to slay pussy as a 54 year old man. I’m teaching a bear how to use its own claws it used to tear bunnies up with.

And the reason he’s killing it is because he isn’t too up his own ass to admit that MAYBE he doesn’t know everything about everything just because he’s 20+ years older than us young pups and he accepts that MAYBE, just MAYBE we know our heads from our asses now and then and MAYBE just MAYBE with the resources we have access to and the focus we put on self-development etc, MAYBE…it just MIIIIIIGHT be possible, JUST MAYBE, that we’ve figured some shit out faster than you guys did when you had a fraction of the resources to learn from that we have at our fingertips today.

And just MAAAAAYBE we might even have enough information out there available to us to not NEED another 20 years to know the same shit you guys needed 20 years to figure out. You guys played the game without an instruction manual, we have endless libraries full of instruction manuals written by guys just like you.

But no, god forbid the next generation have ANY idea what they’re talking about and not view our MySpace wisdom as relevant. We’ve never heard about these books, or philosophies or ideas and we can’t have any life experiences dealing with them. We’ve all just lived in bubble wrap with empty bookshelves.

I’m not saying you don’t have shit to contribute and I’m definitely not saying don’t share your life experiences (re-read that last sentence 50x SJF so you don’t accuse me of telling you not to post again). All I’m saying is like, understand that you aren’t Gandalf talking down to Hobbits. You’re dudes on a message boards with varying levels of success and failure (especially when guys have varying value systems about what constitutes success/failure), and us young pups aren’t naive retards who need another 20 years of swimming through piranha rivers to figure out “it’s a good idea to have a tribe of men to discuss things with” and “enjoy the moment”.

You guys know why I don’t shit on Blaximus or Rollo (minus the looks debate lol and even that we agree on most of it except for some deep nuances) or Scribblerg? Because they GET that things have changed and that they can add value but they’re open to new ideas and input about what’s happening out there. They don’t have blinders on. Just look at Blaximus’ posts, he constantly admits that things might have been different in his time but that there are lessons that might be gleamed from his stories (which is true) and that he’s fascinated by what’s going on out there and is going out trying to learn about the world this next generation is dealing with and he’s learning interesting new insights regularly.

Those guys are talking WITH us instead of AT us, and that gives what they say actual weight.

You guys are sitting there going “but I’m OLD, I’ve DONE STUFF, why aren’t the kids running over to sit down around the campfire and listen to me share my wisdom??” like you might not be wrong, or off-base, or failing in parts of your life in other guys’ views, like everything you have to say is gold that everyone should shut up and listen to. That’s not how it works. Bring value and if it aligns with the field and reality, COOL, that’s AWESOME. I will be the FIRST ONE to give you props on it. Come in lecturing and acting like being old gives you some kind of immunity to being a fuckup who’s spouting nonsense and I’m going to poke your belief system and make you explain it or disregard it and check out what other wiser guys have to say and then see what aligns with the field.

To you you’re the guy who swam with piranhas. To me you’re just an old dude two-stepping with wrinkled old cougars and talking about how your 60yo wife is an HB10. To me SJF is just an old guy out chopping trees who quotes books and drops wisdom that I’ve already heard in a 3 minute Tai Lopez youtube ad before a video of chicks jumping on trampolines, or wisdom that doesn’t really align with reality outside of his head because no one has really questioned or challenged him on it before and expected him to explain his talking points and he’s frustrated that we don’t just sit down and shut up and listen to the wise old man talk down to me about life.

on July 24th, 2016 at 10:55 pm
Original Link

@Culum Struan
“(SUCCESS! Solid evidence of not just my improvement but that Game Works – it literally was –> Kiss Fail on Instadate –> FR on CH –> Advice from HABD and Sentient –> Implement advice with the SAME GIRL —> Successful kiss).”

lol that’s pretty funny actually. It happens though. Tyler mentions it in his really old audio, some girl who tells you to “Fuck off!!” one night, you run into her a month later and she doesn’t even remember you and loves you. It’s funny shit but this is a hilarious mexican standoff you were in not knowing if she remembered.

“That was pretty much it. I might try a Hail Mary attempt to get her to come over for Netflix and Chill in a few days but I am not hopeful.”

Man, props for the persistance. With a chick like this it can be hard to DHV because DHV involves demonstrating value in HER value-system, and sometimes girls have fucking weird/unexpected value systems. Like that chick might get revved up for a rocker type dude or something more than whatever type you are and telling a story about getting arrested is more of a DHV to her than a story about something else. Same time your subcomms etc are decent now so it’s like, from her perspective she’s with an “HB7” say…not fully revving her engines but not an HB4 or anything so sure I’ll come over for ice-cream and maybe he’ll flip the right triggers.

Note though, that you fell into the frame of escalating without having A2. A lot of guys think “okay if making out with a girl turns her on, then if she’s not attracted yet and I make out with her, she’ll get turned on!” so they double-down on the sexual escalation thinking they’ll get her wet and attracted to them.

Like look at your thinking at the end:

“I’m just not sure WHAT more I could have done to spike attraction with this girl..should I just have kept trying at my place and got my cock out?”

But really it’s kind of like you’re a fat HB2 to her (even if you’re a good-looking dude, if you’re acting like a chode you end up being an ugly fat HB2 to her) until you DHV enough to get A2, and when you have solid A2, THEN the escalating will turn her on. If a fat HB2 is rubbing your dick, you might let her if no one is around and you might even get hard, and if you’re drunk/lonely you might even fuck her, but like, you’re not going to feel DESIRE for her no matter how good she rubs that dick because she doesn’t have your “A2” lol

So the end result in your situation compared to Scribblerg’s FR I commented on: In HIS FR, he DHV’ed until he had enough solid A2 to where any escalation he does is going to be welcomed/desired…whereas you’re not getting enough A2 but trying to escalate. She might go along with it but it’ll feel “empty” because she doesn’t have desire built up.

The solution isn’t more of the same, it’s do the OPPOSITE. Pull BACK. If you don’t have A2 don’t bother escalating, just keep DHV’ing and trying to get her to where she qualifies herself. If she won’t play along qualifying herself (look at Scribblerg’s last FR for how it looks) then she’s not attracted because she doesn’t care enough about your opinion to care what you think about her.

The play I would run in this kind of situation is to cut the date short, either end it at the bar or take her home and just hang out and chill and then send her home, ideally ending things early in a way where she feels like it might be her fault. Like at the bar “well this was fun but you seem kind of tired tonight so let’s just call it a night” Something like that where it’s as if she’s lost your interest. It may snap her out of it (if she’s a goth/hipster type sometimes they don’t realize they’re fucking downers lol) and get her to invest more in the interaction, or she may just go home puzzled and think about it and there’s a chance she’ll want another chance to make a better impression if only to just not have someone out there that thinks she’s lame.

It’s not a lay, but like, if you aren’t able to trigger A2, there’s not a lot you can do. The funny part is she may ACTUALLY have been attracted to you but just be socially stunted enouogh to not know how to express it…the indicator will be if she txts you tomorrow or this week re-opening the line of communication for you two to hang out again. I’ve noticed the <25yo girls are sometimes awkward about it with an older man…they'll be cool with coming over but try to not put out and it's like "wtf if a girl comes over I thought it means she wants to fuck but I guess this girl doesn't like me" and then the next day they send a txt like "hey you free tonight? :)" and it's like wtf just happened lol It's almost like it's out of their comfort zone.

You could probably shoot a joking around txt or something to try to avoid Buyer's Remorse for the escalation attempts just to cover your ass, but I don't know if she'll reply.

"PS – For the guys here (if any) who think YaReally’s being paranoid in his security measures – this girl told me that before she meets anyone from online she downloads his WhatsApp profile pic and image-searches it on Google to do her due-diligence on him and she’s previously turned up married guys/guys using fake names etc that way (their Facebook profile came up with the same picture but a different name) – so yeah Take Precautions. Although she did say she is perfectly open to dating married men – she takes the view that the marriage is his problem. It’s dishonesty that put her off."

lol ya I've had girls who refuse to even meet up if I won't give them a Facebook page to check out. They get a LOT of married dudes hiding wives/kids from them so they can get paranoid. And like she says, it's more the dishonesty that's the problem.

I actually pro-actively snuff this if I sense she's suspicious of me being an older man who's single, by saying flat out "don't worry I don't have a wife and kids lol I'm way too emotionally immature for a woman to put up with me" etc Girls like that are usually pretty jaded though, she's probably gone on a shitload of online dates since you last met her.

"she’s kidding herself a bit right now,"

Even a "slut" wants to feel like she's not a slut lol It's not that you CAN'T just invite her over to fuck, it's just playing the %s…you have enough Attraction that as long as you don't de-value your time/attention by giving it away for free from here (getting caught up in text/phone validation which satisfies her but doesn't get your dick wet), she should meet up under "business" pretenses is a sexy outfit to seduce you. You provide the logistics/excuses to make it happen (like how to get her from the meetup to your place without triggering ASD).

"But in fact, what works for women to generate attraction is utterly different and doesn’t compute for me in the sense that it would attract me. Like I’m really getting that women are working off of high value cues and social proof and want the fantasy and the spikes. I can see it working."

lol ya. Guys have a hard time breaking out of the looks/money paradigm because we're so logical. But when you understand how to really trigger this shit and make emotional impact on women, you understand why poor penniless guys still get laid and why guys that look like Tyler through his pickup career still got laid etc It's communicating on a different channel completely.

Like Tyler says at the start of his oldschool cocky 2 hour audio: "If any of you guys was surprised when I walked into the room, that a guy like me can get hot models, you're in the wrong headspace, you're looking at the wrong channels."

"I wrote a song about this kind of duality, “Hold on tightly, let go lightly” is he refrain."

Well MY panties are soaked, anyone else?

"She asked why I was interested in her and I told her that I “curate friends, that I pick interesting people to be in my life that make it richer and she seemed like one of those people.”"

This is great. Nothing to do with looks. I would remove the "friends" word, but ya the picking interesting people to be in my life like it's some kind of exclusive fucking club lol That's solid, and she SEEMS like she MIGHT be one of those people is solid.

She never fully fully wins you over until your dick is in her and maybe not even then. "You're great, BUT…" "I like you, BUT…" "You're sexy as fuck, obviously…BUT…"

"Now I realize I need to dial it back and close."

The big problem is you're doing this shit over the phone. The interesting people shit is GREAT in person when you're locking laser eye-contact in the candlelight of some lounge having "business" drinks with a slight smirk on your face. But over the phone or in txt it's just free validation for her and starts putting you into the Tinder orbiter camp where they give her validation for blue balls all the time.

"I think I’ll tease her a bit next time she texts, call her a stalker or something and then close for dinner tomorrow night. He he."

You have her hooked enough (enough A2) that you can push her safely. So ya, the stalker stuff and then push for the meet.

Remember: Once you're going to meet up, turn off the sexuality. Once shit becomes "real", your goal is to avoid triggering her ASD before meeting up. A lot of guys will set the meetup and then think "if I ramp up the sexuality she'll be so turned on she'll want to meet up and have sex for SURE" but most of the time this will actually just trigger ASD because she thinks "he thinks I'm just meeting up for sex, I don't want to seem like a slut" and flake or put up more LMR.

So once the date is set just stop talking to her lol Be busy with work till the meetup. Or give her some friend-zoney responses but basically try to avoid any real conversation till the meetup…otherwise she doesn't need to meet up, she's already getting the attention and good-feels and The Scribblerg Experience over txt/phone. In person you can be more sexual, hug her on the hello, make sure she sees you check her out (my move is usually as soon as I see her make eye-contact then slowly look her down then up and smile as I lock back onto her eyes, no verbalization necessary she knows what it was about), make innuendo in your conversation etc etc and escalate things from there.

If she wasn't a business/client situ I'd say give a legit romantic mouth kiss hello but there's a 0.00001% chance that she's going to arrive in business mode and needs to be warmed up into escalation and that could cause issues business reputation-wise if it's miscalibrated probably. If she was a random I would give that a go, with that much A2.

"I’m simply focused on getting what I want now, fuck my experiences or my wisdom that kind of posturing is merely useless egoic posturing that doesn’t advance me towards my goals."

This. The hardest part about learning pickup is accepting that you don't know anything about pickup lol Gotta empty that glass to fill it. But a lot of guys think once they fill the glass that's it, time to retire and just bark at others from some high horse of wisdom like they've got shit all figured out and everyone else is beneath them.

I'm cocky and I write decisively about things, but the things I write about are field tested and backed up by the field, so they're right. I'll write as sure about them as I'd write that 2 + 2 = 4. If someone has some new idea/theory, cool, I'm open to hearing it. But if it isn't field tested and it doesn't hold up infield and it contradicts the things we've found and tested infield then sorry, your formula is wrong and I won't entertain 2 + 2 = 5 to coddle your feels. I'll educate you on why 2 + 2 = 4 and if you want to keep arguing that 2 + 2 = 5 then I'll make fun of you for being retarded. And if you're going to be condescending about how I can't possibly know what 2 + 2 equals and how your 20 years of swimming piranha waters and chopping down trees and reading Tai Lopez's recommended book list means you automatically have some brilliant depth and insight on what 2 + 2 REALLY equals when we've already moved onto the next math problem because 2 + 2 is solved as fuck, well, then I'll be a condescending asshole back so you can play the "YaReally is a big mean bully" victim card.

"She said (among other things) that I was “entitled”. Lol, from the mouths of babes. She said she was surprised that I didn’t feel guilty about hitting on her and how she liked that, like it was very different from how most guys were and not just the older guys. Fucking jackpot – led to sexual convo in which I said, “Yeah, I feel entitled to every good thing I want in life. Including sex with hot 21yo women.” Lol, like I reek of it now. I walk around like I’m entitled to pussy. Doesn’t matter how hot or how young (within limits of course), but I get to fuck them all. Just because I want to."

Solid. This is all such a massive improvement from last year or further back where you felt pretty much worthless. You've made excellent progress on your internals and I have another "54yo guy learning to slay young hot poon" reference to point older guys who doubt their potential to.

@Forge the Sky @Scribblerg @Culum Struan
"Probably either something on her end (you don’t know everything that’s happening in her life due to the nature of texting) or some specific type of DHV that rings true, or some indication that you’re able and willing to move things forward."

This. A good recent example is my buddy had a girl on a Day2 that wasn't into him at all and then he brought up The Secret (that woowoo shit girls love) and that just HAPPENED to resonate HARD with her and her value system, so him being into it (or at least acting like he was lol) was more of a DHV than the other shit he was trying. This is what I meant with Culum and the goth chick. Part of why oldschool routine game involved a routine stack was that if you stack a bunch of different shit, sooner or later you're likely to hit something that resonates with her and opens the set.

Like watch this fucking NIGHTMARE of a set. You think you've seen "No" girls? How many guys would stick in THIS set instead of just walking away? (7:00):

This is the funniest shit ever. It goes ON AND ON AND ON for SO LONG.

BUT, what he's demonstrating is that if you keep stacking and just act as if you're oblivious to the idea that you could be rejected/ignored, eventually they'll crack just from the absurdity/persistance/confidence, or you'll hit a topic that resonates with them and you'll get a glance or slight body language change or two girls look at eachother and girl-code for a split second because you said something that was relevant to them, or just SOMETHING you can work with.

Max keeps saying semi-offensive stuff (like the black stuff) to try to trigger ANYTHING. Even HATE and shit-tests, like he just needs ANY response…good response, bad response, doesn't matter, just SOMETHING that makes emotional impact. So he tries friendly chat topics mixed with asshole offensive topics etc, just poking for SOMETHING.

99.9999% of guys would bail on this set in the first 30 seconds and write them off as "No" girls or say they rejected the girls because the girls were "boring".

Notice as soon as the girl FINALLY cracks and laughs, the girl sitting looks back at her like "oh what?? Did you spot VALUE somewhere???"

And once he gets them to crack open, he just proceeds as if he wasn't standing there talking to himself for 20 minutes, he just puts his hand out to the most receptive looking one to get preselection/group approval going (she asks him where he's from), to use that to work the other ones playing proper strategy.

In the end he ends up isolating the one that he shook hands with and he's super laid back and casual about "I'm hungry…" and leading her out and she starts to put up token resistance but he doesn't run retarded debate game logically debating her, he just LEADS. He is the captain of the ship and she naturally follows the masculine leadership. Note that even THEN he throws in "Only if you're COOL" and you hear her say "If I'm COOL??" like her brain forgets they're leaving together and focuses on the being qualified part because that has more emotional impact in the moment.

Also jump back to 3:10 where he explains the girl with her arms crossed and how she admits to him that she just does that to see what a guy does. ie – does he trust in his value and assume attraction, or do the folded arms throw him off? Can he read the little subcomms she's giving out or does he interpret them all as negative or imagined? I know girls that do this too, they'll purposely not say anything and just stare at guys for the first minute when guys chat them up at the club, just to see what the guy does.

Try doing that to a GIRL. πŸ˜‰

"‘it’s a HECK of a lot more efficient to demonstrate value based on WHO YOU ARE rather than your knowledge/expertise in a specific field.’"

Like Mystery said: "Teach a girl something interesting and she'll say "oh THAT'S interesting!" Teach a girl 10 interesting things and she'll say "oh HE'S interesting!"" The goal is to get her to value YOU, not the mentoring/expertise you're giving her.

But to Scribblerg's credit, he did this well. He made sure to not just teach her shit but to focus on directing it into building personalized rapport and sexual topics and teasing spikes etc. Like it's HIM that she's interested in, not his advice or what he can do for her. Culum probably ran into this a lot with the Sugar Daddy mentoring stuff, girls valuing him for the money he can give them, or the mentoring he can give them, instead of for HIM.

As guys we get excited by ANY validation so if we find a button that works we KEEP PUSHING IT and push harder and harder until we break the button lol Because our logic is simple "if this works, do more and it'll work BETTER" (like Culum's "should I have whipped my dick out?" instinctive strategy thought process). But with girls you have to bring the focus back onto YOU.

A lot of NLP shit back in the day (I didn't study it, I found the community right after it had moved away from NLP) involved making hand motions toward yourself to anchor positive feelings in what you're saying, to yourself in her mind. It was the same idea…it's ME that I want her to focus on, not the things I'm SAYING.

This is also why understanding subcomms is important…because subcomms are about YOU, not the things you say. You can talk about nonsense with a girl as long as you have solid subcomms because the subcomms are speaking to her on that subcomm channel and drawing her to be attracted to YOU at your core (because your subcomms generally reflect your core beliefs about yourself). Whereas a newbie is focused more on the words to say and a lot of times the girls will enjoy talking to the guy but not be attracted to HIM.

"The professional stuff should be tacked on to the personal value rather than flirting/teasing being tacked onto business talk. I think this is more of a technical point rather than a mindset thing for you."

I just assume it's a convenience thing like she happened to be a convenient target in his business life and he decided to just go with it and see what happened, VS seeking her out specifically or aiming to be a business mentor thing. Like my buddy at work has been assigned a secretary and he has to use all his willpower to not flirt with her too much and accidentally fuck her but just by the fact that he has authority over her and is 10 years older than her, she's attracted to him lol

See Runkle with his Suicide Girl secretary in Season 1 of Californication. lol I don't get the impression that Scribblerg is making it a habit to try to mentor his way into work related girls' pants or anything as his main strategy and would give him shit along with you if he was lol

"Whenever a girls ‘comes at me’ or is bratty I treat it as a strong IOI – she’s trying to get a rise out of me. Because that elicits me to show dominance. She wants you to PLAY with her."

Ya guys are retarded about this shit. That's why I side-eye pickup systems that try to AVOID "No" girls and shit-tests…like shit-tests are an opportunity to BUILD attraction by passing them. A girl who tests the fuck out of me will fuck me WAY faster than a girl who doesn't test me at all lol

Like that Max video, there's NO WAY he should be able to get any of the girls in that group with that fucking retarded awkward approach. And yet he does. Because that whole time they're ignoring him is just one big shit-test and he demonstrates that he just assumes they'll eventually crack and then he pounces on the most receptive girl. All that huge shit-test did was build his value to that girl because he was handling social pressure.

A shit-test is just a chance to demonstrate your good subcomms and value. I LOVE shit-tests. That's why I purposely poke a girl with offensive shit to try to GET her to shit-test.

"Forward! “Oh, I bet I can imagine what sorts of things he found. You’re a crazy girl ;)”"

Solid. I tell girls "everyone knows EVERY hot girl has an album on her phone full of naked pics." and look at her as if I know her little secret lol And if she offers to show you them, do you take the bait? You CAN. But I prefer to say "No…I'll wait till I see it in person. ;)" and then change the subject instead of letting her dwell on it and get into a logical debate that triggers her ASD. It's just an offhand like "I know we're going to be having sex later…so ANYWAY about that thing–" You'll usually see her scan your face when you say that kind of stuff, to see if you flinch.

"Means you didn’t set a good playa frame earlier on. This could have gone forward a lot sooner."

Ya this is what I meant before. Like this is slower than it NEEDS to be. That said, I won't give ya shit for it 'cause it's an over the phone situation and whatever. If this were a conversation in PERSON I'd be like "dude just slap her with your dick already!!!" But over the phone and text it's like meh, okay build into it but just make sure you say focused on MOVING IT FORWARD (which you did enough of, in my opinion…but if you don't move it to an actual MEETUP then it'll fuck up).

"Good, this is a legit way to go about it. Just dangle. You could stand to be a bit less subtle tho IMHO – make up a fun fantasy about a crazy weekend, keep blowing it up out of proportion till she’s laughing and know you’re joking, like ‘And THEN after the cocaine I’ll call in the THIRD girl….” You could also have gone for a thing much sooner if the distance weren’t an issue."

Right this is another option. I would throw the asexual business angle first, but if she pokes at it like "well why do we need to meet up to discuss BUSINESS?" then I would go full-tilt the OTHER way into this stuff "because we can't snort cocaine off the midget hookers over the phone, I've booked them for 7pm and the donkey shows up at 9, don't be late"

"Just, the issue with waiting is that she has time to have the attraction die and then she’s changed her mind by the time you suggest something concrete. Strike soon, strike well, and just ROLL OFF if she doesn’t bite immediately."

Yup. Get on that shit ASAP.

"What’s awesome here is that I got an HB8 who wasn’t attracted to become attracted to me – fucking amazing. That is a miracle."

That's just GAME. πŸ˜‰

"And as an older guy, that is often going to be my situation, no initial attraction. What all the ugly/older guys here should note is that GAME WORKS ANYWAY. YOU CAN CREATE ATTRACTION WITH GOOD GAME."

And back to the looks thing. If no one interferes, cool, looks are great and will get you laid. But throw a guy who's pro-active in there and understands this stuff and my money is on that guy. Her attraction will go where the value goes. Learn how to out DHV the other guy and you'll get the attraction. This is just Hypergamy in action.

"Oh, shit, I forgot to mention how we used bows to start fires, then upgraded to flint and steel technology, lol…yeah I can see how you guys with tinder boxes don’t need our old experiences killing dinos since you’re hunting sabertooths now"

Exaggerate all you want. The reality is your wives weren't brought up on Tinder, validated 24/7 by thousands of men from around the world on social media, encouraged to bail on you by an Eat Pray Love culture, raised in a culture full of open Hypergamy and open cuckoldry, with masculinity shamed out of boys, with all the divorce and family court laws not just stacked against you (because they probably were back then too) but with the massive open knowledge in culture that if you just throw out a false accusation you can cash out and trade up from Johnny Depp to Elon Musk, and learning that from the college campus Yes Means Yes kangaroo court false accusation SJW-hives that teach women anything they decide at some point was a mistake or unwanted was automatically rape and teach boys that even looking or daring to speak to a girl is rape and will destroy their lives.

If you can't wrap your head around the differences between now and then, then you live in a fantasy world.

"vids are only preferable to text if there’s significant nonverbal video content…else it’s a helluvalot slower than text"

ok grampa lol

"try cutNpasting a vid or searching a vid for a quote, lol"

There's technology for that and you can link directly to timestamps or auto-create snippets via various free sites online. Google it. And some people enjoy visual learning or being able to do other stuff while they listen to a book, that's why audiobooks have gotten so popular. Technology is making it easier to consume mass amounts of information 24/7. You don't have to go to a bookstore anymore, the two books you list below I can grab in a minute with a simple Google search…and even better I can read summaries of them and podcasts discussing their themes etc

"Shakespeare’s plays are packed with info…Taming of the Shrew comes to mind as one of his most Red Pill…AW Are Shrews is a key message…leads to AWALT…not gonna get as much out of it from Cliff Notes"

What would I need Cliff Notes for? Some guy on the Red Pill internet forum I'm replying to just summarized the play's information: AWALT. Great. Heard about it before from a million other places. It's fine if you enjoy a good play, that's super, but I can read a Field Report by someone in the RP community and see a good example of AWALT too.

"And young guys obviously don’t do cold approaches live anymore, lol…it’s all social media"


"at my country bar, the guys doing the approaches are typically late 30s to 40s and the girls are 20s and 30s"

lol I've been to country bars, I know what kind of guys and girls go to those places. You yourself have written multiple FRs about macking old-ass chicks there. Now they're suddenly all hot 21 year olds.

"Experience has a way of coloring what you read, so you might have a different take on the same books if you read them again in ten or fifteen years."

Maybe. And maybe I'll just understand it the first time. Maybe I'll learn from your generations mistakes and your wisdom to not have to go through the same shit to get to where you ended up. Isn't that the point of handing down information? So we can avoid the mistakes of the past? Isn't that the point of the TRM books, so young men can learn the shit Rollo learned but learn it earlier in life? Rollo's earned weight to his words because what he writes about holds up infield and he doesn't ask us to "just trust him", he can explain why he advises what he does and we can scrutinize and analyze it in depth and it holds up. You, SJF, etc are just old guys on a message board and your lives aren't necessarily what we want ours to look like and you spout a bunch of fluff about honor and masculinity and taking the fork in the road and then pull out the "20 years older" card when someone says "no, I expect you to be able to back your shit up like Rollo, or accept that the world may have changed when you weren't looking, like Blaximus".

"I’ve read the Bible cover to cover decades ago, and reading it again with a Red Pill lens gives me new insight into it…re-reading the same book gave me new insights based on things I learned since first reading it"

Okay, and what if you had learned about the Red Pill earlier in life so that when you read the Bible the first time you were already reading it through a Red Pill lens. Woah, mindfuck!

I'm sure I'll learn some cool shit with age and experience. But there's no reason to assume that cool shit is going to come from a couple of old dudes on a message forum who act like just because they have 20 years on me that means their word carries weight. I can go find a homeless crackhead who made it to 50 and he'll have all sorts of wisdom to share. What gives that shit weight is more than just "I'm old so listen to me talk about how things worked in my day while I ignore what you're telling me about the world your generation lives in".

"I’ll try not to “talk down” to you too much in the future, lol. It’s a privilege that seniority brings and should be used sparingly."

That's my point. Seniority doesn't bring shit. We went our whole fucking LIVES listening to our older wiser elders, who told us to treat women nicely and buy them flowers and get a career we don't care about and marry that girl we aren't really sure about (take that fork in the road, don't run away in fear like a pussy, right SJF?) go take up these hobbies we approve of and go do this, think that, chase this, follow that, and all this shit from a bunch of people who it turns out in the end, didn't actually know their heads from their asses and ended up sending us to places like this to cut through the bullshit and figure out how the world really works.

Now we're here and you guys are gonna sit there saying "Hey, I'm old, just do and think what I tell you because seniority brings that privelege"? Nah. Being old doesn't mean by default that you know a damn thing. Throw your wisdom down on the table and we'll deconstruct it and field test it and see what holds up and what's LARPing/solipsism/fantasy. Your ideas don't get a free pass to not be analyzed or questioned just because you're old, in communities built around unravelling socially programmed bullshit and figuring out how the world really works. If your ideas are solid, they'll hold up to scrutiny. If you demand that no one look too close at what you're saying, you're just demanding we do the same thing this Blue Pill society demanded we do.

"Have you read “I Married Adventure” by Osa Johnson (about her deceased husband Martin and their hunting safaris) or “To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth” by Jeff Cooper?"

Nope. My thought process goes: hit Wikipedia and get the summaries. I Married Adventure looks like just a book of stories, which is cool but I have other things that are higher priority than reading about some hunting safaris. I'm sure they're fun stories to read, and if I just need some reading material for a sunny day in the park and want to read some Indiana Jones type stuff, cool I'm sure it's an enjoyable book.

And Coopers: "Combat mind-set, proper sighting, tactical residential architecture, nuclear war – these are some of the many subjects explored by Jeff Cooper in this illustrated anthology. The author discusses various arms, fighting skills and the importance of knowing how to defend oneself, and one's honor, in our rapidly changing world."

Again my thought process: ehh, not really my thing. I'm not big into war stuff. It's probably a great book if you want to read about combat-mindsets and fighting skills, but I've already read a zillion articles and watched a zillion videos about fighting skills, I can't imagine there being much in there that I haven't already heard/read elsewhere. Honor the way this manly book probably means it is an outdated notion to me so that's not really catching my interest either. And the book was published in 1988 so it's "rapidly changing world" has mostly already rapidly changed again. The proper sighting and tactical residential architecture and nuclear war is probably a cool read if you're into those subjects but that's just stuff I might skim on wikipedia or reddit for fun if I'm bored but like, I don't see a reason to go out and specifically read the book unless I have some downtime and just want what I'm sure is a fun interesting read.

There are very few books you'd name that I've read, but summarize the basic ideas in the same books and they'll likely be ideas I've already looked at in depth through a dozen other channels and can discuss. That's not a brag or anything, it's just saying that like, there's a LOT of information out there and I've had the internet since I was in my early teens lol

"In Australia they can get half your shit with no baby just by moving in with you."

Austrailia is a lost cause. Between the spiders and the feminists I say just burn it to the ground lol

"I’m not MGTOW but I have not had a LTR in 4 years since my divorce."

Shit I wouldn't in Austrailia with those laws either.

"I just can’t afford to lose my remaining wealth after divorce rape.I know and work with other guys who are in the same boat.All guarding their wealth.Other guys putting wealth in their parents or brothers name etc.To protect themselves and their kids"

This will happen more and more. And then they'll find ways to extract that wealth. Like that article went around wanting to make not disclosing your actual job/wealth "rape".

"If a chick does not have her own place or insist on LTR and moving in then I’m gone."

I would just date/bang but use condoms like a motherfucker and break up if they keep demanding to move in lol

But if you don't have abundance with women where you can keep yourself from getting one-itis for any girl that fucks you, or you don't have a strong enough frame/willpower/assholishness/abundance to reject a girl's demands to live together etc (like a divorce-raped guy in his 50s), then I can understand staying away entirely. I told Scribblerg early on that no one would blame him for giving up. He had every right in the WORLD to give up, I'd have just gone "ya man, I hear ya, you got dealt some shitty fucking cards, you do your thing" He just chose not to. But he's also not in Australia where Feminism has gone full cancer stage 4 mode lol

I don't really have a problem with MGTOW. If a guy doesn't want to participate that's fine. If he's not participating because he doesn't know HOW to, that's something we can help him fix, but if he doesn't have an interest in it or is like, 50 and divorce-raped and it seems like too much work to him then okay I won't drag him into it.

The only MGTOWs I really have an issue with are the ones who still date girls but refuse to study PUA…THOSE guys are playing with fucking fire. It's like they're still handling a loaded gun but refuse to read the instruction manual on how to handle it safely. I think MGTOWs who want to date should look into some PUA shit and get some basic skills down because the lifestyle I live is basically MGTOW: I mostly fuck but occasionally date, but nothing past that, and women come low priority to anything else in my life (like right now I'm focusing on my career so I'll turn FBs down to get work done, hell I'll sometimes even choose to go sarge over banging a fuckbuddy just because sarging is fun lol). So it's pretty much the same thing except that I'm VERY well equipped to 1) make sure those girls in my life are hot, 2) avoid a bunch of pitfalls and hazards of dating/fucking casually (one-itis, buyer's remorse, drama, etc), and 3) get more girls or replace current girls when I feel like it.

But PUA is demonized and boogey-manned by a lot of MGTOW just like it often is with the TRPers and RVFers and everyone else lol Personally if I want to have a gun around, I'm going to learn how to handle it safely. I may even read a book on it, theasdgamer!

on July 25th, 2016 at 8:31 am
Original Link

“A lot of this “advice” seems to be about validating the life choices of the men giving the advice, not actually meeting men here where they are.”

I didn’t wanna come right out and say it, but this. lol

Remember, out there in the wild the girls will be exactly the same (AWALT). And may not come with some of the benefits your wife comes with (witness the girls in a lot of our FRs here lol) Like, don’t make the mistake of thinking “I feel betrayed/duped by this girl (who didn’t really DO anything, society just blinded you to reality), but I’ll feel better with a different girl that I know from the start is like that or find one who isn’t like that”, ya know?

“I’ll take a couple weeks and let it percolate…”

This is the best plan. Never make decisions from an emotional place, always sit on it till you come back down from the “wtf?!” feelings and can make calm rational decisions. I have a buddy who is CONSTANTLY digging himself into holes creating his own life crises because he makes emotional decisions. We can logic out a rational plan of action for him for HOURS, DAYS or WEEKS even…but then in the moment I’ll get a txt basically saying “I know you said not to do this but I did it anyway because (insert bullshit justification). Now shit is hitting the fan, how do I fix??” lol I just facepalm every time.

“I’m finding out at my age (57)”

Fucking props dude lol I thought I was reading the FR of like a 30s/40s guy till I got to this sentence.

“and experience I have so much depth/knowledge/stories that it all spills out without trying.”

This. Like, older men have value to young girls these days. Their peers are AFC chodes and effeminate flamboyant betas. Girls crave that masculine energy that as an old dude you have in spades compared to the young guys. The older man younger woman thing is a very normal natural dynamic. Society convinced us to date our own age because that was convenient for society, but the age gap old man young woman thing is win/win for both parties…women get a strong confident wise rock solid mental frame older man that can teach them about the world and guide them, the men get young sexy feminine energy. Everyone wins. Except the girls who rode the cock carousel till they hit the wall lol

“With MM I can see the interplay of teasing/negging/getting-giving validation/comfort and weaving it and just hypnotize her with it.”

Like I say the important thing with this stuff is to understand the STRUCTURE more than just aping Mystery’s routines and wearing a fuzzy hat. When you understand that structure, you can bring your own personality, stories, teases, qualifiers, etc into that structure.

“And being in shape and lifting is something that counts at my age. I took off my shirt (heck its a picnic) and received lots of nice caresses. Lifting counts at 57.

lol you better be lifting at that age just so you don’t fucking croak before you can enjoy the poon.

“I’m realizing – I Am The Fucking Prize.”

I never get tired of seeing guys finally reach this conclusion.

@Yollo Comanche
“What if I WANT to be part of the “Illuminati” keeping the little guy down?”

Just follow the path laid out by Paul Feig lol

“I’m convinced those guys exist. They’re the faggots promoting feminism. Ok so maybe I DON’T want any part of that. But who’s in business that doesn’t do that shit?”

Well ya, sure, every guy is trying to work his own sexual strategy. If you can’t compete on the traditional level, try to change things up so that the traditional level is looked down on and try to keep other guys down so you can succeed. Go full virtue signalling mode and try to show that you’re better than other guys and try to convince other guys they’re worse than you etc etc

Classic Hugo Schwyzer, recent Tucker Max, recent Style, Jian Ghomeshi, etc etc strategy.

“A stutter, and an awful start coupled with ever-expanding social technologies didn’t help.”

A lot of guys who do PUA get rid of (or at least improve) their stutter over time. I don’t have any personal experience with it but I’ve read a lot of FRs and seen vids by guys comparing themselves to years back and mentioning the benefits they’ve had and improving a stutter is often mentioned. My point just being like, don’t let that hold you back from trying to learn to socialize…it’s something that you can probably work on smoothing out over time.

“All this time I thought of going out as a chance to show off what I either “know” or “have” in terms of materialistic stuff.”

A lot of guys do that. We’re brought up in a culture that conditioned us to believe that’s HOW you get value/respect/attraction: just have the biggest and best externals and show them off. Get rich/jacked/a nice car/a nice watch/good shoes/a suit/etc and the chicks will flock to you BRO!!!!! lol

“But now I sort of feel like it’s a chance to feel connected to other humans.”


“Only that instead of humans being like characters from a JRPG. They’re more like characters from Family Guy.”

lolol A lot of it is about learning to find ways to appreciate people. Like a lot of the world is just stupid. Most people live in a really negative headspace or walk around like zombies numbing themselves with distractions from life or getting upset and dwelling on silly insignificant problems and drama, and don’t have much drive to do anything with their life beyond watch the next episode of whatever on Netflix so they can argue about it over the watercooler at the job they hate the next day.

But the disappointment often comes from having unrealistic expecations of people. Like, if you were in a room full of kids, you’d just EXPECT them to be silly and immature and overreactive and irrational and emotional etc and you wouldn’t expect them to bring brilliant deep shit to the table. You’d just appreciate them for what and who they are.

“I want to become a man who women can tell gets it from a mile off.”

It’s a long journey from that kind of headspace, but one that you can start any time you want. πŸ™‚

“So far I think it just helps to try to have regard for their own perspective and their emotional state, but I feel sometimes like when I have this knowledge in my head, that people are either some fucking bugs to step on, or some stingray you don’t even see til you step on him and you get stung.”

lol a lot of it is learning to put yourself in their head and figure out their view of the world so you can be relatable to them. It’s like engaging children, which isn’t a bad thing as long as you expect children to BE children instead of expecting them to be like adults and being disappointed when they’re not, ya know? Down the road when you learn that you have value to give, and learn how to give that value, you’ll find it’s rewarding to “help” these “children” instead of viewing them as bugs to crush or disregard. It’s not really a switch you can just flip in your head, it takes field experience interacting with people and learning to accept them despite their flaws and see the world through their eyes. What you DO with those abilities is up to you, but most guys who come out of the anger stage and up wanting to use those abilities to spread good value because they FEEL internally GOOD.

Right now you probably don’t FEEL good inside, you probably have a lot of negative thought loops and shitty views about yourself and your value and what you have to offer other people etc so why would you WANT to give good feelings to other people who don’t “deserve” it or aren’t working on earning it, when to your brain there’s so little “good feelings” to go around as it IS? VS down the road if you work on it where your internals grow solid and you feel good about yourself and your value and you’re OVERFLOWING with “good feelings” and want to share and spread them.


“or decide to use her as a pivot towards another, better girl in situ?”

This is one of the better options we use. Use her as preselection to get a better girl…worst-case she walks away, oh well it wasn’t going to lead to sex probably anyway, best-case she gets attracted when she sees another girl is into you, and best-best case you find a better girl who sees you have a girl with you and you can say “save me from this boring date, pretend you know me” lol

“Good to hear – I get the “old man” thing alot too with the 18-24 crowd and I just roll with it. “I’m just a dirty old man/pervert” is how I respond and I mostly get back giggles. Have yet to crack that market…”

lol yup, like I say, shit-tests are a GOOD THING. They help the girl weed out the old men who are insecure about it because they’ll fail the shit-test, and they help her find the guys who are internally rock solid about their value beacuse those guys will lol and agree they’re just a dirty old man/pervert who will take advantage of them etc etc, that’s why you get the giggles. That’s Attraction because that age shit-test is giving you a change to Demonstrate High Value by agreeing & amplifying the shit-test. πŸ™‚

I LOVE when girls shit-test my age. I STRESS to them that I have a DECADE on them and stress the word DECADE and make fun of them asking if they like Justin Beiber and tell them I’ll add them to MySpace etc etc and purposely play it up and instigate shit-tests. And they love it. Because I’m doing it from a place of confidence, not insecurity.

“Regarding being able to fuck just one woman, I’m really beginning to feel like it’s a build-in difference in guys, that everyone is on a spectrum, from incapable to fuck the same girl twice, to unable to even think about a girl other than their wife/gf. For me I feel like I’m strongly closer to the first category, so I need to act accordingly (not promise monogamy etc.)”

Hard to say, I don’t know of any research into this particular nuance yet. Blackdragon has an excellent post about Thrill of the Hunt guys VS Pleasure of Sex guys that gets close to it (a lot of settle-down guys want the stability of regular sex so one reliable sexual option is good for them, whereas a thrill of the hunt guy gets off on actually chasing the girls more than having them).

Like when I was young I wanted the one girl thing…but I also had no idea multiple girls was even an OPTION for me. That was something that only happened in movies or to cool guys…it wasn’t “realistic” for me to desire anything but a nice average 6 cuddling up to watch movies with. Same time I know some players who’ve settled down into one girl (Blaximus style) because they were able to have options but got tired of it. I can’t relate to that at all, I love the variety and multiple girls thing, I don’t find it shallow or empty or hollow or filled with drama or lonely or anything like people shit on it about. I think it’s awesome, I screen for girls I enjoy being around and I lay out up front that I’m a fun time not a long time and we have a blast. Sure I’ll lose girls to LSNFTEs or just going our separate ways or wahtever but that doesn’t really bother me because I can get other girls and enjoy them just as much.

But like, I could also try to blame porn, like seeing millions of random women in porn has corrupted me to need variety. But the flip side to that is that while a lot of guys have favorite pornstars or models or videos that they routinely use as their fap material, I can’t even name many pornstars I go for full variety in my porn fapping to, like I’ll rarely watch the same clip more than a couple times and 90% of the time just once and then I’ve moved on to something else and some new girl…I don’t think like “oh man that (pornstar name) is perfect, I want to just look her up every time I fap” lol It’s cool if I stumble across her in my fapping travels or I might check out a few vids of her but then I’ve moved on. So that says to me that the variety desire is something more hardwired, since other guys may view porn differently. Like in my teens I never saw the point of having a poster of a particular girl hanging on my wall, whereas I had buddies who had huge crushes on specific girls like mini one-itis.

I think the important thing is just figuring out who you are and what you need/want. That’s why I say if a guy chooses the mono LTR life, cool, as long as he’s aware of the risks of that and knows and has explored his other options. If after all that he decides he wants that, cool, high-five brah. Same with the player lifestyle. As long as it’s what a guy wants, it’s cool to me. But a LOT of guys are in relationships or lifestyles that they AREN’T happy in because they let OTHER people tell them what to do and what they SHOULD want and then they end up miserable and feeling like imposters and feeling guilty for not appreciating the thing everyone told them they should appreciate and shit.

And the way to figure that stuff out about yourself is field experience. πŸ˜‰

on July 25th, 2016 at 10:06 am
Original Link

“lol it’s funny because I mean…when you right you right. I was reading and like…COME ON DUDE SHE’S ALREADY PRACTICALLY SUCKING YOUR DICK.”

lol to be fair I thought the same thing. But not being in person it’s like meh, fuck, only so much you can do.

“banged a legit model this weekend (tons of hot girls are models, so i guess i have to start demarcating the model tiers now). one with photos in popular magazines.”

lol ya, pretty much every decent looking girl with an Instagram account has done some kind of modelling for pay and calls herself a model because of it. The label almost doesn’t even mean anything now…I’ve met UGLY chicks that like, have some ugly features but in the right angle with the right makeup etc it works for a good photo.

It’s why the old neg “oh, like a hand model?” was so great lol Completely devalidates their DHV and forces them to qualify.

“And being that you’ve known about game for *10 years*, its time to face facts that you have genetic limits to your personality. Its just not in you.”


“Forget YaReally’s never ending walls of worthless text.”

If you read them you’ll see that I recommend pretty much what BD says. But I can’t imagine you can stop your Tazmanian Devil mini-tornado of old man outrage long enough to read entire paragraphs. There’s being outraged to do!!

“You’re disrespect of older generations is par for the course for a nihilistic scumbag like yourself. But understand this: the world is not getting better, it is collapsing. We are headed for a correction; ie a comeupance.”

“You’re an out of shape penniless bastard and you are only going to get WORSE. When do you ever think you are going to “get my career in shape” if you haven’t already.”

Don’t worry, I’m on my way. πŸ˜‰

“You and those younger than you (especially those being born now) are going to have to deal with a history changing event: white people becoming minorities in their former homelands. You are going to have to deal with the up and coming race wars; ie the black intifada, the “ReConquista” and the ever growing Muslim menace. Use your “negs” on that you ignorant piece of feces. Personally if some angry negro or some even angrier Muslim put your head on a pike (after putting you testicles in your mouth – yeah go read about what they are doing in Germany), I wouldn’t cry tears for you.”

Shit, and here I am helping my minority buddies bang hot white chicks like a chump. I quote your whole rants because they’re hilarious.

“Bottom line: you are a piece of shit compared to the earlier generations that built this country; ie those white beta males that knew nothing of the cultural sewage that is social media. And weak pieces of shit like you can not BUILD a civilization, can not MAINTAIN a civilization and cannot DEFEND a civilization. Nihilist libertines like you deserve the fate you will get.”

“Honestly, I hope you suffer and meet a terrible end. You’re just that unlikeable.”

Shit you’re right, sign me up for whatever charm school you went to lol

on July 25th, 2016 at 10:31 am
Original Link

@The Man
“Isn’t your lifestyle a promotion of young women riding the cock carousel? So win/lose is OK as long as you are the one doing the winning? But you otherwise seem to promote win/win? What gives?”

Haven’t you heard? I’m a nihilistic scumbag. πŸ˜‰

on July 25th, 2016 at 10:58 am
Original Link

It’s fine, she’s trying to get to know you ’cause you have lots of A2 but minimal C1. Give a bit and tease a bit. She won’t not meet up from your name or your job, but your age might cause some problems if it’s significantly different, so I would do something like “YaReally, (real job), and way too old for you.” She’s attracted so she won’t care really, but no reason to just answer everything. When she asks again go “I’ll tell you tonight. 9pm, Location, wear heels. Now stop distracting me from my work.”

The jist is basically you’re giving her enough real answers that she feels like you’re not hiding everything and she’s winning you over to some extent, but not giving her ALL the answers. And then you fake that you have work to do so you can leave the conversation on the invite. If she says “I can’t make it tonight” you just ignore her till tomorrow ’cause it may just be a test and you have enough A2 that she might after a few hours go “ok where is this place?” and then you just act as if there was no gap there.

Remember: don’t get caught up in sideways txting that doesn’t go anywhere. Lead it toward your goal: a face to face interaction ASAP while she still remembers all the good feels you gave her.

on July 25th, 2016 at 11:13 am
Original Link

@The Man
lol a less flippant response:

I don’t try to change the rules, I just adapt to them and prosper within them. Guys like gb_hill are frustrated, they want the rules to change, everything should be different, everything should be how they want, grrrr!! They’re mad as heck and they’re not gonna take it anymore!!

But at the end of the day gb_hill is a nobody who will do nothing to change the world. He knows that he’s insignificant so he puts the responsibilities he can’t accomplish on other people. Now it’s “you disrespectful kids better do such and such” which is just code for “because I can’t do anything about it, I’m just a crotchety old man”. His impotence has him swirling in a whirlwind of rage at the world and he’s found me to be the personification of everything he thinks is wrong with the world. I represent everything he’s powerless to change, that’s why he has such a hate hard-on for me.

’cause a week from now, or a year from now, or 10 years from now, gb_hill will have had as much impact on changing the world as I have. He’s not going to prevent terrorists from shooting up nightclubs, he’s not going to go knock on black people’s door and ship them off to Africa, he’s not going to make mass swarms of girls not ride the carousel. He’s going to do exactly fuck and all except LARP in his head. And then he’s going to fap to internet porn and surf the net. So we’re basically the same.

The difference is that he’s going to spend the next 10 years angry and frustrated, writing bitter rants that no one cared about the first time they read them and no one will care about in 10 years. Whereas I choose to spend that 10 years happy and enjoying the imperfect world we live in, writing stuff that will help men do the same, and may even cause change if enough men gain enough Red Pill information to resist marriage and get the girls they don’t think they can get and have relationships on their terms and not marry post-wall women out of scarcity and what I write may actually cause some change in society.

So it’s not about win/lose or win/win, it’s about accepting reality: this is the world I’ve been given, and I think the default path that’s been laid out for men is a bogus one. I think there are better options to be discovered and taught and I think the entire marriage institution and Disney social conditioning etc needs to be stomped into the ground so that men can be free. What that world looks like, who knows. I’m just along for the ride, adapting as the rules evolve.

“You don’t think I should escalate sexually when there is no attraction, right?”

Not sure what Scray said (too lazy to scroll) but escalating sexually is not the same as BEING sexual. You can BE sexual right from the word hello, like Russell Brand is ALWAYS sexual in his humor innuendo etc. But escalating sexually with HER, like showing SEXUAL INTENT with her, is something you do after she’s EARNED it, and she EARNS it by first being Attracted to you (A1, A2, then A3).

Like I’ll tell sexual stories or talk about OTHER people being sexual or ask sexual topic questions or make innuendo etc, because all of those things are setting a sexual tone and demonstrating I’m comfortable with sex and sexuality…but those aren’t directed AT her like showing sexual intent for HER…because she hasn’t earned it yet. Make sense?

on July 25th, 2016 at 11:36 am
Original Link

“Recently another MRP poster mentioned he has a similar religious, N=1 wife, and similar issues. Introducing new techniques or positions is very tricky.”

I don’t have any real deep advice on this one, just the standard stuff everyone else will tell you.

But this quote reminds me of Tyler’s rant that I always think about when I see the Manosphere guys pedestalizing those low N-count virgins: “You want this pristine virgin good religious girl who’s never had sex with anyone before…but then you’re surprised she’s not a raging wild pornstar slut in bed. wtf did you expect?” lol

Of course those guys will be along to say “you just teach her how to be a dirty slut for you” so they can give you advice on exactly how to execute that. I’m sure it’ll involve a rant by fleezer that involves the word “possession” and/or “property”.

Personally I try to avoid virgins. I’ve banged a few and they’re generally shitty lays, and I don’t want to invest time in teaching them (if I dated one maybe but as a casual fuckbuddy no thanks), and they get clingy as fuck FAST which is too much drama for me.

@Yollo Comanche
“Dude I’ve been feeling so much better about myself since you and the others have been helping me to see past my own internal bs.”

That’s why we’re here. πŸ™‚

“I believe having this back and forth between you and me and others like SJF and ScribblerG has been a great way for me to work out my internals.”

Even better will be when you get out there into the real world, but nothing wrong with starting here to get a foundation down where you feel like you have some kind of value to offer the world and other men respect you and have your back etc.

“Have I told you how much my relationship with my brother and my parents has improved since I learned as much as I have about game? It’s like the nasty scary monster they gave up trying to beat, they see me beating it.”

It’s very hard to fix someone FOR them…and it’s very hard to help someone who doesn’t WANT to change. But when a guy WANTS to change, like he recognizes and accepts that he’s flawed, and he’s willing to put in the effort to change, the world is his oyster. You would never recognize guys like me, Tyler, Scray, Scribblerg, etc if you met us before we got this shit handled. We aren’t special or doing anything superhuman, we just wanted to change really fucking bad and worked at it. And you can do that too. And you have a support network sitting here ready to help you help yourself.

“Alot of my contempt for people came from the way they seem to want to status jock whoever is the “cool one” and then they shit on whoever isn’t with them.”

When you get to where people consider you the “cool one”, remember how bullshit this behavior was and be the change you want to see in the world: spread value to the “uncool ones”. Be that social connector that spreads value to everyone around you. The most popular guy in my High School was a guy who was such a social butterfly that he could hang with the jocks, the hardcore awkward nerds, the punks/goths, etc Everyone loved him because he treated everyone as an equal.

“It’s not that I think that people are bugs so much as like I think to myself: “If I can’t beat society’s estimation of me, I am powerless.””

The question is: who’s holding you to that value system and why is their opinion important to you? gb_hill thinks I’m a piece of shit. SJF, asdgamer, Sentient all think I’m a disrespectful tool bla bla none of that matters lol ’cause who are they? Just some names on a screen, why would their estimation of me affect my self-worth in any way?

Now there’s an external reality to it where if a girl judges you to not have value then she won’t be attracted to you, which is the REAL issue behind all of this…like you have to actually address THAT, you can’t just think good thoughts into a girl’s panties. But that’s what PUA is for: to teach you that 1) you HAVE value and 2) how to efficiently Demonstrate that High Value when you interact with people, to overcome first impressions and categorizations.

“But the guy who is already internally validated isn’t trying to appeal to others OR actively trying to recruit members into his clique.”

Right. All of that stuff is just low-frequency thinking to him. It’s the silly high-school nonsense that you already KNOW it is. The difference is that he determines his frame and what he lets into it and he sets the frame that this isn’t high-school anymore, whereas you probably currently let yourself fall into OTHER people’s frame that this is still high-school (especially when people say or do things that trigger those old painbodies from back then).

But understand, both you and he are given the same stimulus (someone trying to put you into a box in their frame), the difference is in how you decide to handle that and reframe it or accept their frame.

“But isn’t cold approach about getting someone you don’t know to join your own gang? The HB?”

We’re creating a gang together. Anyone who gives value is welcome to join it, whether it’s her or anyone else. Anyone who doesn’t is free to leave. It’s not an “us VS them”, it’s an “I hope you can join me in this much better lifestyle that we can all be a part of and if you choose not to then I’ll feel bad for you and hope that you come around someday”.

VS “I’m gonna get this bitch and show her to make up for all those years I got rejected, and I’m going to rub it in the face of that asshole jock who makes fun of me” I mean, at the start ya there’s a lot of that because you’re coming out of a pain stage and gaining superpowers lol But ideally down the road you work to climb up to a better frequency.

“I have a cruel side to me that is rooted in insecurity, I realize.”

That’s the important part. We ALL have a bad side…but WHY do you have it, where does it come from, is it ACTUALLY everyone else’s fault or if you really objectively look at it is it your own brain working against your happiness. Our brain wants more of the emotion it’s experiencing so if you feel shitty and negative your brain will look for shitty and negative things to confirm that everything is shitty and negative.

But that’s all coming from your core where you’re feeling shitty and negative about yourself, and most of the time that insecurity comes from looking to OTHER people to determine your worth (so when the jock or hot girl diss you, you interpret that as you not having worth and it hurts), VS understanding that you inherently have value and that you feel bad for that jock and hot girl that diss you because they’re too blind with their negative high-school outlooks to see your value and you legitimately feel like they’re missing out because their lives would be improved by having you in them.

This is all pretty woowoo advanced “down the road” internal stuff. It’s totally natural to, at the start, just be like “I just wanna fuck some bitches and make them pay arrrrgghh!!!” lol Whatever gets you infield. πŸ™‚

on July 25th, 2016 at 11:51 am
Original Link

@Sun Wukong
“The acrimonious butthurt in your direction on this thread is simultaneously hilarious and cringe-inducing. It’s like some people can’t even see their own emotional investment making them stupid.”

lol I’m used to it. The funny part to me is that everyone else is ramping their shit up at me and then when I just defend myself and ramp it up right back at them, they pull the victim card out like Feminists/SJWs do, about how “mean-spirited” I am and misinterpreting shit to play into their victim narrative…ie – “your knowledge is outdated” becomes “you are useless and should shut up and die”, and “your ideas don’t hold up infield these days” becomes “mean-spirited disrespect for all your elders (ignoring that I heart Blaximus, Rollo, Scribblerg, etc, you know, guys that don’t have their heads up their ass and come at me with this condescending lecturing pearl-clutching bullshit)”

That’s why last thread Blaximus was like “why are you guys freaking out at YaReally he wasn’t really mean to anyone except Rocket who asked for it” Anyone can read what I’m actually saying and if they aren’t emotionally invested in it like the guys flipping their shit, what I’m saying is pretty logical and inoffensive.

Notice that none of them commented on the thing about talking AT us instead of WITH us which Scribblerg also backed up. They don’t even get what they’re doing and even the THOUGHT of admitting maybe they were wrong or don’t communicate well or aren’t taking other people’s perspectives into consideration when they lecture is an absurd notion.

I think the whole thing is hilarious. It comes off like this to me:

I’m exactly the same as I ever was: talk to me like an equal and I’ll talk to you like an equal. Talk down to me and I’ll give it back to you 10-fold. If you’re going to cry when I do that, then get off your high-horse and come back down to earth and we can avoid going down that path lol

“All in all smooth, didn’t push tremendously hard but her smiles were big and obviously genuine. She liked being close to me. Next meeting should go well.”

Solid FR. I can’t even recognize you. Your last FRs were like “this stupid ugly bitch threw a bottle at me so I told her to fuck herself and punched her in the cunt till her stupid boyfriend behind the bar showed up agh fuck like fuck everything fuck this shit” lol And then you vanish and come back a pimp. Glad to see you’re in a better headspace these days, I think a lot of us were worried about ya.

“If you can guess then I’ll walk you to your car. If you can’t, then you have to take a ride with me first.”

I like this. Giving her hoops/qualifiers. Make both of those things win/win for you (isolation in one place VS isolation in another or whatever, where either result pushes the interaction forward), and it’s a fine way to handle the age question.

on July 25th, 2016 at 1:35 pm
Original Link

@The Man
“So …… you still really haven’t answered my question …… how you reconcile that trope”

I don’t know what you’re question is. What do you want me to reconcile? What outcome are you trying to get out? I have no idea what you’re talking about lol It’s like I said “The sky is blue” and you’re saying “Well how do you reconcile that?” I literally have no idea what you think needs reconciling lol

“So it seems that perhaps you are answering the question by way of saying ……. “I didn’t make up the perverse rules …… some people get burned by the rules as they are ……. I’m not one of them ……. if you listen to my counsel you won’t be one of them (who gets burned) either ………. so it is win/lose ….. with me and my advisees on the winning side ……. and then maybe the eventualities that me and my advisees enjoy will force change upon the dynamic, down the road, to something closer to win/win.””

Ya that’s pretty much my position.

“If so ….. how can you be sure that your counsel is the correct course of action wrt to forcing positive change on the inter-gender dynamic?”

Who said my goal was to force positive change on the inter-gender dynamic? My goal is to get guys what they want and get them off the plantation and out of a corrupt system. I’m not trying to create world peace.

“How do you know it isn’t just forcing negative change?”

Dunno, the guys getting their dicks wet seem happier than before lol Good enough for me.

“Or do you think it is actually forcing negative change so as to bring the matter to head, so as to at some point bring conflagration … thus providing for a barren but fertile seedbed for a new paradigm?”

Sure. If enough men stay off the plantation, society will have to adapt to that and try to get them back onto it. So that could theoretically bring some “okay what can we change in the laws to make it more appealing to give women their resources and have kids” changes. Though more likely it’ll bring “okay what can we change in the laws to FORCE them to give women their resources and have kids” lol

“what else do we risk losing in the conflagration?”

Dunno, you tell me, you sound like you have it thought out lol Is it gonna be some woowoo stuff like morals and honor?

“Is there any other ways to go about dealing with the rules you believe are perverse that will avoid a conflagration and the other human social elements such would put at risk?”

Gotta define what those things you think are at risk are and if they’re actually relevant.

I don’t know what the best solution is, if you have a better one that fixes things and gets guys off the plantation and out of deadbedroom marriages and out of divorce-rapes and gets them hot poon and freedom, let’s hear it lol

“Or maybe instead the trope that women, in the long run, lose, by way of riding the cock carousel – is not true?”

If they hit the wall without reproducing and their eggs die and they don’t have secure provision into their old age, then they lose.

“YaReally – still not really understanding where you are coming from on this. I hope you can help me out wrt understanding your point of view a bit better.”

I don’t really know what you’re looking for lol

@Yollo @The Man
“He did also tell you it’s not really your job to try to “save” the world. In fact he argues that people’s socially conditioned frame of mind tells them to make something ugly and devious out of how we simply operate on an unconscious level.”


“Notreally… you made this up in respect to me”

I figured it would make us even when you inevitably made shit up about me like this here:

“And look how far you’ve come on looks for example “And back to the looks thing. If no one interferes, cool, looks are great and will get you laid.” Ta da!”

I’ve said that from day one. And a thousand times in the discussion. But you weren’t reading what I wrote then so I don’t expect you to now.

“Reading about something like travel, safaris, etc. is supposed to be a breadcrumb so that you will want to experience it for yourself.”

I’ve watched Indiana Jones. It was cool but I don’t have any real desire to go hack my way through a jungle lol if I did I would take steps to obtain that experience. There are things I like to do outside of pickup/work, but I don’t share them here because this isn’t my social club where I’m here to hang out with my buddies and share all about my life in a public forum. I’m just here to help guys learn the pickup side of the Red Pill so they can get some actual results with all this knowledge.

“YaReally sets up a straw man about women being different now than they were then. (So NAWALT, right? I’m confused, lol.)”

Women are the same. Society and the influences and conditioning working on them and which buttons are being pushed are what’s different. This is a very simple concept. Do we still stone witches to death? No, society and it’s influences and conditioning has changed. How is this a difficult concept to grasp, it’s like I’m talking to children here.

“Then he says that the stuff us old farts recommend has been distilled into stuff that’s online and you don’t need to read the original.”

Yup. The disconnect is that I’m saying that as a logical verifiable observable evidence-based statement of fact. Whereas you and SJF are getting your panties in a twist taking it as some personal attack.

“That’ll save men here a lot of time reading your response to my original comment.”

Excellent work! Keep it up, the faster men can get the information I’m giving them the better. I’ll correct you when you summarize wrong like I did above. And if they feel like reading my points in-depth, that’s an option they can choose to do, instead of me crying that no one is listening to me.

“You can spot gammas…they insert themselves in arguments in which they have no investment. Sun, scrib come to mind….”

But hey, it would be a lot easier if it was a bunch of you against just me instead of other guys pointing out that ya, you’re overreacting.

on July 25th, 2016 at 8:08 pm
Original Link

@The Man
You say a lot of random stuff so I’m just going to address bits and pieces where I can tell what you’re actually talking about lol

“Pua cannot be ignored as a cultural force in the west that does contribute to these ongoing changes (as same goes for feminism and liberalism).”

I agree with this. TRP (from MRA to PUA/TRP to MGTOW) in general is a force that’s GOING to have impact on society.

“What does it all mean?”

Why does it have to mean anything? There’s no meaning to life. There’s no higher purpose. We can MAKE those, to pass the time and give us motivation, but there’s no inherent meaning to life except to survive/reproduce like a virus.

“is the primacy of the individual person with free agency, the correct ordering of priorities wrt organizing the social order?”

Like I say, I’m not trying to organize the social order. I’m trying to help men get what they want and avoid getting trapped in a shitty life. Whether that’s “correct ordering of priorities wrt organizing the social order” doesn’t really matter to me.

I say let’s evolve, and let the chips fall where they may.

“Pua plays a part in all this. It seems to me that the trope – “women, in the long run, lose, by way of riding the cock carousel” is not compatible with pua, or with liberalism”

Doesn’t really matter what it’s compatible with. It’s a statement of fact. If I die before I reproduce, you could say I lose too…though I’m more likely to have helped other men increase their odds of survival/reproduction so I personally wouldn’t consider it a total loss, but objectively ya, I would be losing because I didn’t reproduce.

“we need to let people, in the absence of judgy coercion, decide for themselves what is good for themselves (as long as they are bringing no harm to others).”

Sure, I’m cool with that. I just help the guys who’ve decided what’s good for themselves is not waking up alone every night for the rest of their lives lol

“Some of redpill thinking is not compatible with this mindset or with the notion of non-schizophrenic pua. Some of redpill thinking wants it both ways (i.e – schizophrenic-like) for men (just like some of feminism thinking wants it both ways for women).”

Like what? Be more specific.

“There is much evidence for that wrt the arc of recent history.”

Dunno, not really something I think/care about. Your theory might come true, you’ve thought about it more than I have.

“YaReally – let’s start out small here”


“If you buy western liberalism”

I’ve never said I was a liberal. I have views on both sides of the fence (or wall lol) depending on the subject. I don’t really care about ideological battles.

“Wrong ordering of priorities.”

What end result would constitute the priority order leading up to it to have been the “right” ordering?

“Women don’t need secure provisioning from men. They are capable of securing this themselves. Throw that trope in the dung heap.”

If they’re young and hot. Or if government programs will coddle them from the wall to their deathbed. Or if they can juggle remote sugar daddies with good Myspace angles or build a savings to fall back on for the rest of their life, etc But most of those don’t play out in reality. Most of the time women are miserable if they still have to work to support themselves (VS having an optional job) past 35 while having no kids.

“On that front western men and women gotta stop beating each other with the “blame” stick.”

Sure. And we should also stop murdering and stealing. The realistic likelihood of that happening is pretty bleak though. I’m more interested in what’s happening infield all around us right now VS a fantasy utopia.

There wasn’t really a question in any of this for me so I still don’t know what you’re looking to hear lol

@Culum Struan
“Today I am gonna hit up a proper student nightclub (they have a big Monday night event)’s really scary which means I need to do it.”

Good man. Much better for the soul than online shit!

“I actually knew I didn’t have enough A2 throughout, but (especially without using my DHV stories) I just didn’t know what else to try – I was already doing lots of push/pull and takeaways and stuff.”

Right, we’ve all been there. You instinctively don’t want to THROW AWAY pussy, your brain is like “but what if this can be turned around?? I mean, she’s agreeing to come to my place…there’s GOT to be a chance, I can’t just walk out on this date!!” lol

But understand that technically those feelings are coming from a scarcity mindset…ie – if you had a couple HB10s with great fun bubbly feminine personalities at home waiting for you to get home so they could suck your dick, so that you were on this Day2 having to choose between this girl and those girls at home, you would have been like “Well it was nice meeting you, I got shit to do, call me when you decide to be less boring” and bail lol That’s why we mimic those behaviors, like through qualifying the girl before showing her sexual interest, to subcommunicate that we have abundance and options and may screen her out if she doesn’t bring something to the table to make us choose to spend our night with her over another girl.

It’s harder to do if you don’t HAVE abundance behind the scenes, but like, understand how this dynamic/mindset works and why it’s attractive, you know?

“I should have done MORE of a takeaway – like literally fully withdrawn my attention and made her think it was her fault – even walk away for her being boring. I won’t forget for next time.”

Right, remember a while back when I recommended qualifying the girl on something retarded and then whatever she says is the wrong answer and acting like that was a big turn off and then just walk out on the date? This was the perfect opportunity to try that. πŸ™‚ (but in the moment your brain is like “but I don’t wanna turn down pussy!!”)

“I think no A2 was the main issue, but yeah there is a 10% chance she will get back in touch just because she wasn’t expecting me to try and seduce her at my place..”

It’s tricky to tell with <25yo chicks these days. They can be pretty socially awkward and the Netflix & Chill culture seems to have created an environment where girls are less shy about coming over to a guy's place (because they do it all the time with their nice safe beta male peers and won't get raped because those guys are so harmless/shy/beta), but don't understand that "coming into my apartment is telling me you want to FUCK" to us older guys lol So it's this awkward LMR standoff and then the next day they're making excuses to hang out with you again and it's like "wtf, am I gonna get LAID this time or what? I don't want to just hang out and watch movies" lol I blame the Netflix & Chill culture…it's normal to a <25yo girl to go over to a guy's place and NOT fuck and the guy to have no intention to even TRY to fuck (he's happy just having a girl in his presence). Whereas in the old days it was an unwritten rule where she knew coming over was saying she's down to fuck (if you escalate properly and smoothly).

"That aside, I feel like I’ve learnt something about myself and my values and screening."

That's what infield experience is for. It's not just about finding out what you want in a woman, it's finding out what you DON'T want. I have very specific types of women that I KNOW resonate with me and that I love being around. My buddy has the exact opposite tastes and we both lol at how the other guy can stand the type of girls they like. But we both have a lot of field experience interacting with different types of girls and so we've learned over time what things we look for and what we screen girls out for etc

Society conditions us all (meaning us generic default beta AFCs, I'm sure guys like Blaximus knew what they wanted earlier lol) to think we want the same type of girl early on. If you asked most guys at age 14 what they want for a girlfriend the majority would probably describe the same generic Winnie Cooper, Joey Potter, Rachel Green, etc But when you get into the real world you discover some of those girls are boring to you, some other types of personality traits and energies/personalities are more engaging and appealing to you, or maybe you discover that you really DO love the Winnie Coopers.

The problem comes when guys are pressured by society to marry the first Winnie Cooper they meet before they have any real experience with other girls and they end up tied to a girl that wasn't REALLY that compatible or ideal for them but fit that stereotype they were socially conditioned to chase, and then they're 1) not fully satisfied in their relationship, and 2) can't understand why that new chick at work with a COMPLETELY different personality from their Winnie Cooper, drives them fucking crazy and their dick springs up every time that girl looks them in the eye and they end up cheating with her in the photocopy room and get caught and divorce-raped or decide to go try to chase her for a relationship etc

This is why I say to guys like Big Al not to get legally married in your 20s. I would say don't even do monoLTRs in your 20s, but every guy is gonna at least try a couple of those and they're good experience so whatever. But like, don't legally sign that shit till you're mid-30s minimum and you've met a ton of other women.

"like you say, getting infield reveals stuff about yourself to you.."

A lot of PUA is learning about YOURSELF more than learning about WOMEN. This is why you can't learn pickup from your computer chair playing keyboard jockey theory warrior. You HAVE to go experience the field and have this shit shoved in your face so you FEEL it.

@Sentient @Culum Struan
"I thought so… I chalk a lot of the weirdness up to this… she didn’t really know how to get the $$$… an amateur."

This is a very real possibility to take into consideration. She may have been sitting there thinking "how do I get the money out of this arrangement, I guess I go to his place, but I'm not attracted enough to fuck him, do I start with asking for ice cream and we go from there?" and just giving mixed signals because she's got an ulterior motive she's trying to hide.

Remember, YOU made an account on this site to try to fuck girls. But THEY made an account on that site to GET MONEY FROM GUYS ON IT. Can't really discount that dynamic being in the background. Compared to a normal dating site or a cold approach where that isn't the default background dynamic before you even meet.

"No more sugar babies…."

Agreed. And if you're gonna do them for the convenience, start experimenting more with screening them hard and being more of a dick etc and pushing the limits to see what you can get away with…not in terms of whipping your dick out and escalating harder, but in terms of psychologically playing the chess game of push/pull, takeaways, stacking devalidations (see the Julien PIMP video on this that I always link), etc so that you can use those skills on cold approach sets.

@fineman @Andy
That was a good rant fineman, thanks for sharing. Make sure you read that shit top to bottom Andy lol

And ya, I think there are options for Andy that are less nuclear than bailing/divorce (risking his assets and potentially losing/damaging his kids with a messy divorce etc), and less nuclear than "look bitch, I'm gonna fuck what I want, get on board or fuck off" lol (which is a tempting option but only because it's a FAST option to get the "bad feels" of contemplating this situation over with, "fuck it, burn it all to the ground" style which is an emotional reaction not a logical one)

Like if your plan is to divorce ANYWAY, then instead of pulling that trigger and the shit-show that comes with it, try other things first that, if they backfire or go haywire will just lead to that divorce you were going to do ANYWAY, but if they WORK then you may fix things enough to be happy without the divorce or messing your kids up. I would even add cheating to that list before pulling the "I want a divorce" nuke (although check into how infidelity may affect divorce rulings). I'd add stuff like simply going out and sarging to the list…say you're going for drinks with a buddy and go do the sarging you would do if you were single. She may be miffed when you come home late, or maybe she ends up hating you and you're banging poon on the side but she stays because she's post-wall and you're happy enough with the side poon to not care but you both still get along enough day to day to not be unhappy enough to divorce (like that Steve Hyde dude who's wife WISHES he would get some side poon so he wouldn't want sex from her anymore, she'd probably legitimately be happy if he had someone to fuck and they could just be really good friends together who are still good parents for their kids)…or it may trigger Dread and spark more sexual attraction/adventurousness, etc etc who knows, but all of that still results in your kids sleeping soundly in their bedrooms down the hall from you instead of having to stay at mommy or daddy's this weekend and the other the next weekend.

There are a lot of options. They're slower, and if you DIDN'T have kids I might say to just nuke that shit (like that might be the path IAS ends up taking), but the reality is you have kids to think about. That doesn't mean you have to keep living the exact same way you do, there's room to try shit out and flexibility, but it's going to take a more delicate hand than just "fuck it, burn it all down!" lol You seem like a dude that you would probably feel bad if your kids were significantly negatively affected by your personal drama (but no judgement, if you're not, like if you're not really bonded to them, don't pretend you are, this is the place to vent that shit…I have a buddy who wants kids but WANTS to be just a "weekend dad"…his GOAL is to reproduce to pass on his genes but to not have to actually take care of the kid except for the minimal amount, he'd be happy just paying child support and drop in once a month lol I can't relate and I don't think it's a great plan for the kid but like, right now that's his view on the subject).

That's why I say don't make any decisions right now, give this a couple weeks to all digest and process and consult with us for ideas and paths to try. And figure out what exactly you WANT and what's the bare minimum difference in your lifestyle that you could be happy with VS just the extreme difference. Like how much would really need to be different for you to be like "alright, this isn't so bad now"? Just having some side poon? Having permission to openly GET side poon? Having a girlfriend for the both of you that you have 3somes with? Having your own side "fuckpad" or hotel room and male friends to go out with to pretend to be fully single for a weekend here and there and just FEEL free? Or do you need her completely out of your life and your own space and no kids related responsibilities (along with quiet (potentially lonely) nights in-between girls (like you're GONNA have periods of months+ without girls especially at the start, like if I said "ok you can get some new girls but you're going to not get any new girls or get laid for at least a year and the first girl you get is going to be an ugly chick or a bitchy chick you can't really stand being around", how would that affect your vision of being single?)) etc etc

on July 26th, 2016 at 2:06 am
Original Link

“YaReally and Scribbler: scroll by this. It is not directed at you. It is directed at the rest of the commentariat.”

And then in the middle of it you take a bunch of jabs at me. “I’m going to talk shit to you but don’t you read it or respond to me!!” Such weasel behavior lol

Listen to what a condescendingly arrogant fuck you sound like dude, really re-read this:

“Oh, wait. I actually did say that, but it must have gone over the heads of some that can’t handle abstract thinking that most successful-at-life masculine guys do, to adapt to all the roadblocks that life presents. Guys that have to pick up bits of information from “Explain-a-book-in-terms-a clinically-retarded-five year old-can explain, mispelling and grammar and all.””

“And more abstract, not for the concrete thinker bullshit: Sorry I can’t translate for the mind of a five year old like Ya needs.”

Like, are you just oblivious to cause and effect and STILL don’t understand that every time you talk down to me like this, I am going to toss it right back at you 10x as hard? You don’t get to just talk shit and run and hide behind the teacher and cry victim when I talk shit back lol If you don’t want me to be a dick to you, all you have to do is stop taking these passive-aggressive jabs at me and writing me these long fucking rants about the imaginary competition in your mind that you think you and I have.

“I’m not going to go back and forth.”

See the thing about a guy like you is that you’re two-faced. You say one thing and talk and act like you’re this virtuous dude, and then you go and do the complete opposite of that. You keep talking about how you’re not going to throw mean-spirited shit and that you aren’t condescending and you’re above participating in the riff-raff’s mud-slinging etc but then you turn around in the same sentence and do EXACTLY that, shoving us into the mud and hopping right in. You’re exactly like the “Mean Girl” crybullies in a bad high school movie who say one thing to your face and then do the complete opposite when they think no one’s looking and put on a pouty puppydog face to try to come off like a victim and play the sympathy card when they get called out on it.

And you’ve convinced yourself that you’re this pristine pure saintly dude, when really you’re just picking fights when the teacher isn’t looking and then pretending to be innocent because you can’t even admit that you’re acting like a shit.

I at least know I’m an asshole and I don’t pretend not to be. But you’re like a priest diddling children thinking and claiming and telling everyone else you’re doing god’s work.

on July 27th, 2016 at 7:49 am
Original Link

@Culum Struan
Good getting out there. Just putting yourself in those environments helps strengthen your frame and get you used to getting out of your comfort zone, whether you’re slaying poon or not. A lot of guys my age are terrified to go to venues full of HOT YOUNG FUCKABLE POON, because they stay inside their comfort zones and if I take them into those venues they let social conditioning make them feel insecure and they can’t do anything. So by DEFAULT they limit their options to old age-appropriate chicks about to hit the wall, or girls at work they have to risk drama to hook up with etc

I got a buddy my age who felt “too old” to come with me to kiddie nightclubs. Now he tears that shit up and makes fun of his peers who have the attitude he used to have, just from collecting enough positive reference experiences (or even a LACK of negative ones, because no one really cares most of the time) and learning to pass age shit-tests and spike Attraction.

And keep up the avoiding your phone thing if you can. The pretending to txt stuff is a huge mental trap/buffer from social pressure that just reinforces “I’m concerned with how I look and people’s judgement of me”, literally the opposite of a high-value mindset. I sometimes leave my phone at home or at a massively low battery when I go out so I can’t use it to hide from social pressure.

Your chick sounds cool. She’s giving a bunch of indicators that she’d be down for 3somes with other girls with you. You may end up going out to a swingers club sometime where it’s like hey we’re just at a bar but like, other girls will flirt with my girl and lots of people have pretty open views about this stuff that will help normalize it bla bla (VS trying to pick up at a normal bar). Just remember the other girl is your guys’ plaything, she’s not an equal to your girl (same as a pLTR dynamic, your girl is the Primary, the other one isn’t competition for her place, or drama will crop up (at the start at least, your chick will probably need reference experiences that even with another girl sucking your dick SHE’S still your Primary, so you should probably blow your load with her and shit at first till you feel out the calibration of what all you can do without drama)).

Not that you’ll go run out and start setting up 3somes tomorrow or anything but like, it’s not outside the realm of possibility going by her tone in that conversation. And if not that, then that conversation should at least help ease up your guilt about flirting with other girls when you’re away from home. Like, she doesn’t mind at all, she knows you love women and it’s ATTRACTIVE that you can get other girls Attracted to you. Like a guy hitting on my girl means I’ve got a HOT GIRL…like Patrice says: “I don’t want some girl I can send down a dark alley at 2am and she’s NOT gonna get raped” lol She wants a guy who’s Attractive to other women.

So at the very bare minimum to start with, keep up the flirting when you’re out and about and work on not feeling guilty about it.

If you happen to end up fucking a girl, you’ll be able to smooth it over based on that conversation. Like I say: women’s biggest worry isn’t that you’ll fuck another girl, it’s that you’ll replace them with that girl and she loses everything she invested in and planned her future around. If you fuck a girl and she finds out just drop in stuff like “honestly it just made me miss you, this chick didn’t (insert thing she does) and afterward I bailed because even talking to her I was like “this girl is retarded” and I realized I LIKE that after sex you and I (bla bla)” Like, there’s lots of ways to smooth it over and there’s zero reason to go the divorce route. That conversation with your wife has enough green flags in it that there’s a TON of room to evolve your relationship into something you’re happier with.

Good thing SJF was here to rescue you.

“I’ve never been a judgmental guy, so I don’t know why my girlfriends never brought up fantasies like that…”

That’s probably part of the mindfuck. Not so much that they’re like that, but that they didn’t tell you or include you in it (ie – what does that say about what they think about you? Do they think you can’t handle it when you thought it was clear that you’re this sexworthy dude who they SHOULD be open about that stuff with?). Just throwing shit out there now lol

“Throw a girl out after some time, having set the next date to be in your house. Sounds pretty convenient.”

Not as convenient as fucking her the second you walk into your apartment, which is how I used to do it, that’s all lol Like the notion of sitting down on a couch and chatting and putting on a movie and THEN finally escalating feels SO FUCKING SLOW to me, let alone kicking her out and waiting till the NEXT time zzzzzz…

I used to just escalate in the lobby/elevator and we’d have clothes coming off against the back of my door as soon as it was closed (and sometimes before). So to me a girl being totally up for coming over but then wanting to hang out a bit first is like “ugh, so much EFFORT” lol

@Culum @N1
“He’s just saying we need to be aware that with younger girls (let’s say born after 1990), coming to your place doesn’t signify that they have already decided to bang you, as is the case with older women. So we just need to adjust accordingly. ”

This. Like, it’s still faster than most normal guys will pull the lay off, but it can be a confusing mixed signals thing when you’re used to a girl knowing that if she comes over she’s saying “ya I wanna fuck immediately when we get there”.

Think of it like: you need a certain level of Comfort to fuck…in the past (generalizing here of course) the girl wouldn’t come over UNTIL she had that Comfort, because when she came over it was gonna be P in V time. But NOW it seems more like the girl will come over without Comfort (which blows my mind, it’s like they have NO fear of being raped or anything coming to a stranger’s house right away…but when you consider that their Netflix & Chill culture combined with the FI-brainwashed betas they N&C WITH, where they don’t have to worry about those guys making a MOVE let alone RAPING them, it makes more sense that they would be less concerned about coming over to a guy’s place), and expect you to build the Comfort AT your place.

@Sun Wukong
“Maybe I’m weird, but every time a girl from that set has shown up at my place they’ve been down to fuck.”

“Of course I’d been around her and teased her a lot previously, so she felt like she finally had what she wanted and wasn’t going to let it get away.If you’ve built attraction with them they’ll show up knowing exactly what they want to happen without your pressuring or even asking.”

Right, this is different than what I’m talking about. I’m talking more about the plowing/chasing her frame that’s been popular for years where you’re doing what Culum did on his goth date, VS what you’re describing which is more about showing enough value that SHE’S the one chasing YOU for sex. I hate Comfort (it’s so boring to me lol) so I try to do the bare minimum possible to get the girl to come over to bang, so the young girls coming over right away makes me instinctively go “What?? Already?? YES GUARANTEED LAY!! That was easy, I didn’t have to waste ANY time with Comfort!” but then they’ll show up and want Comfort and it’s like “but…but you’re in my apartment!! This is when we’re supposed to have sex!! Now I gotta TALK to you first??” lol

That’s part of why I’ve gone back to focusing on Mystery Method where I’m getting her to chase, so that when we go back to my place she’s relieved that we’re finally alone and is dying to fuck.

This might sound confusing if you haven’t followed the PUA trends over the years ’cause these are just slight nuances in the interaction style lol and I’m generalizing about an overall trend, not anything iron-clad “this is how it is every time”. But like in the old days we were thinking more about “how do I get this girl who’s Attracted to come to my place without triggering ASD” (that’s why we had all those elaborate “forgot my wallet come in for a minute” and “come see my goldfish/google earth/youtube video” things), whereas now getting them over seems pretty effortless and it’s more like “she just came over to my place right away even though she isn’t even really that Attracted yet, wtf? Now what do I do? She’s HERE but she isn’t Attracted enough to fuck? Why did she come over if she isn’t Attracted yet?? Doesn’t she know how this works??” lol

“It’s funny. People who have seen the reality keep saying “Women are more sexual than men” but they just get laughed off by the men who aren’t willing to see.”

This. That happens in the Manosphere/TRP too. Usually they pull out self-surveys and who faps more and shit. I like to fap, but I haven’t spent 8 hours with a fist-sized dildo up my ass like 90% of Chaturbate (average girls you’d pass by on the street who have full control over how much they do and can make money just doing a basic striptease if they want) is happily voluntarily doing lol

@Andy @Tom
“I guess it was just hearing the fantasies from the women themselves, it’s just undeniable at that point.”

This is the key. Again this goes back to why we push guys to rack up field experience. Hearing it directly from the girls themselves, to YOU, is a big eye-opener. Like you can’t ignore that, whereas most of the customers of the dinosaur sex books may be dudes or ugly chicks etc lol

@Sentient @Culum
“If things are getting too noisy and what not, just head out front and do street game in front of the club… lot of people coming but also a lot of girls leaving at this point… so you have momentum in your favor already…”

This. If you have a good nightlife district (VS a bar in the middle of nowhere), there’s a lot of street game potential where you’re still talking to girls in a fun mood but you don’t have to deal with a lot of the chaos of being inside the venue.

A fun exercise is to open groups of girls on the street and try to get them to invite you to the bar WITH them, so you roll in with preselection/social proof and socially warmed up, instead of walking into the venue ice cold. You’re solo, you can do anything you want out there. πŸ™‚

That’s one of the nice things about solo or sarging with a PUA wingman…normal people aren’t as flexible with their night. They’ll bug you like “c’mon man stop talking to that hot girl we gotta get to this place before there’s a line” whereas you can hang with that girl and try to pull her and who cares about the club, if there’s a line you can game the girls in the lineup or go anywhere else. Or they’ll want to stay in shitty venues because they paid cover, or if you’re way out of state and need to reset your brain you’re stuck there with them etc etc

So appreciate and take advantage of the flexibility and freedom you have going out solo.

“Awesome… the odds are low you will get a good wing, so better to be in control yourself than introduce random bad stuff…”

Most guys are happy to befriend you if it seems like you can open girls, because you represent a ton of value for them (“this guy can get me face time with girls!!”), but very rarely are they able to offer much back (or even try to lol) in terms of skills and wingmanship. If you find a guy who’s mutually win/win like he helps build your value to the girls and he can open etc too, that’s awesome, hang with that guy for the night and see if you want to roll out together again. But those guys are pretty rare so don’t bank on finding one…if it happens, it’s a happy lottery win.

“if you look closely there are more solo guys than is immediately obvious. Some potential instal-wings opened ME (like 3 different guys – do I have a particular look or something??)”

Yup. This goes back to people’s RAS. When I say there’s all these good-looking rich dudes on death row going home alone at the end of the night and bombing with girls that are done deal silver platter lays into them and they’re often not getting laid, no one believes me because their RAS isn’t LOOKING for that and/or doesn’t WANT to see it (if THOSE guys can’t get laid how are YOU gonna get laid?).

But when you really look around, you’ll find stuff like that, and you’ll find there are lots of dudes there alone that you can chat up and it’s win/win because that helps THEM feel comfortable/social too, so you BOTH get some value out of the interaction. When I chat solo dudes up, my frame is “I’m going to make this guy have a better night by helping him loosen up socially”, like I view it was me giving him value just to help a stranger out because I’ve been out solo and know it’s scary. Sometimes that guy is solo, sometimes he’s waiting for friends (sometimes they’re hot girls), sometimes he’ll buy me a beer, etc Usually as we chat I’ll try to grab whatever girls are passing by us and say “Hey, have you met my buddy here?” and introduce them and wing the rest of her set. If he does well, awesome, if he bombs he’s still like “but holy shit that was awesome” grateful and now I have a BFF for the night.

Good man. Now you’re set to take it somewhere instead of just enjoying the validation. You’re moving it FORWARD toward a goal instead of sideways basking in attention. Even to her, that’s a subtle attractive subcommunication that says “I’m NOT an orbiter, I don’t ORBIT, I FUCK.”

“So it’s all about us getting together because we have so much in common. Funniest? We had a long talk about my daughter and it was obvious she’s the same age as my daughter and that is simply a non-issue.”

Just remember that the more and deeper you go into Comfort and deep connection BEFORE you fuck, the more she starts viewing you as a potential Lover AND Provider and the more chance she makes you wait for a second or third date because she wants to hook you since you’re the overall package. With this chick she’s got a casual sex frame but understand that a lot of the reason she’s into the casual thing is because she’s surrounded by guys that aren’t WORTH settling with (just like you’d be into casual sex if your only options were fat old chicks, it’s not that you wouldn’t date an HB10 if you found one, it’s just you don’t have access to any…that’s usually how it is with girls who talk big about not wanting relationships, once you demonstrate enough Lover AND Provider, suddenly they’re totally into relationships lol).

Focus on the Lover side of things, you have more than enough Attraction, Comfort, etc to get the lay. It’s a 100% done deal. Focus on having fun and spiking her Attraction and keeping things in that badboy Lover frame till your dick is in her. After sex you can talk about your daughter and teach her about psychology and shit.

“Question: I took the YaReally route here and didn’t sexualize at all to avoid ASD which seemed to work. However, Scray seems to believe I should have sexualized much earlier. But now we are clearly getting together because we enjoy each other’s company and it has little to do with biz. Seems like a perfect outcome, but I’m always looking for coaching.”

The main window to not sexualize is between “let’s hang out” and “being face to face hanging out”, that’s where the biggest ASD triggering chances are. Before that you CAN sexualize, but again I recommend BEING sexual, VS showing sexual INTENT for HER, mainly because you have that work relationship and I prefer to go the indirect route of getting her chasing me. Like as a 50+yo dude, I personally think it’s better to DHV and let her choose and chase you VS groping her up with direct sexual intent because you’re already working against some social conditioning with the age thing as it is.

Plus you were stuck with a gay phone/text interaction…sexualizing with intent for HER, in PERSON, is cool. If your interaction had happened in an office face to face, my advice would be different. But over phone/text your goal is to get her to meet up face to face. Tyler’s said that he’ll sometimes act like a complete chode asking the girl out to dinner saying he’ll pay for it etc because he knows that once he gets her face to face he’s going to be able to turn on the sexuality and Attract her (just like you did, going from “nothing” to this level of Attraction, but he has more practice at it). Like whatever gets her face to face.

But once you SEE HER, like once she walks through the door in person, turn ON the sexuality. And stick to the Lover stuff. You can probably get her back to your place after the first drink or two max. She’d PROBABLY just come over to your place but there’s no need to push it THAT fast, you got nothing else to do might as well enjoy a drink and flirt with her. The end is already a done deal, no need to fast-forward the movie…as long as you don’t Pause or Rewind the movie.

So when she walks through the door, lock laser eye-contact and check her out from head to toe and back up again to another laser lock, and let her FEEL like she’s being sized up by a hungry lion looking at its prey unashamedly, setting the Lover interaction tone.

You don’t NEED kino, don’t force it if it’s not natural. Like, kino isn’t going to get her MORE Attracted to you, she’s already more than Attracted enough to fuck you. You don’t need to overgame this, it’s a done deal. But if the kino is natural, sure. Don’t stress it either way.

And get a fucking hotel lol don’t let her dictate where you meet up or she’ll pick a venue where she has value and you don’t (like a place she knows the bartender or has girlfriends/orbiters at etc). You’re 6-figure McRich now, you can afford a hotel room with good logistics for the night. Ideally you meet her in the lounge OF that hotel ’cause hotel lounges are usually quiet, dark, cozy, and full of strangers avoiding interacting with eachother (VS a college bar with kids who all know eachother throwing back shots and cheering). Just say something like Sentient said: “I have business to take care of and didn’t want to drive home tonight…plus you may try to get me drunk and I won’t be able to drive” (already seeding the excuse of “well you can’t go home yet, you’re too drunk (even if you’ve had just one drink lol), let’s go upstairs and order a movie” that either of you can use to get out of there).

If you’re making 6-figures the hotel room will give you TONS of return on an insignificant investment.

“Again, a big thanks to all the PUA guys here, particularly YaReals, as I would never be here had you not come along. And this is what I want – not to go cut trees down or jetski up Mt. Everest, lol.”


“The question is, I want to make this relationship *very* sexual; no more blue pill shit for me. The usual formula of invite over, show around, supper, bang to me is BP. I want to bang her almost as soon as she arrives, relax, eat, and possibly have more sex after. We already text about fucking etc so I feel I can try to push for this right off the bat. Is this reasonable or am I just being an asshole?”

Soon as you open the door look her in the eyes, then scan her down and up like she’s a piece of meat sexual object, back to the eyes, pull her in by the hand, pin her against the wall beside the door (or against the door to slam it closed with her body), make sure your hand is between her head and the wall so she doesn’t smack it (ask me how I know lol) and go to town ravaging her, start pulling off clothes and go at it in the entrace, lead her to the bed and do the deed, shouldn’t even need words for the most part. Do it with the full belief that she wants you to…most guys hesitate and second-guess and put on a big intro show like I described then get all “so come in, would you like a drink?” and go back into date mode.

The only catch is how much of a Lover she views you as…like if the last two dates you were a gentleman, it might come off incongruent. If she puts up some resistance just calibrate and back off and do the default dinner plan.

But a lot of it is just conviction and congruence in the moment on your part. I hate “watching the movie” so my M.O. for a few years was just pin them against the wall as soon as I open the door and escalate. Even when we had plans to go to a bar, I would have them meet me in my lobby, then escalate as soon as I saw them, makeout for like 5 min in the lobby and then go “I don’t think we’re going to make it to the bar” and just lead them by the hand into my place and continue and carry them over my shoulder (just lead them by the hand if you’re old, no good to throw your back out right before sex lol) and toss them on my bed and escalate.

I wasn’t even doing it for the sex, I was doing it so I wouldn’t have to waste booze pouring them a drink or spend money/time going to a bar with them lol I was like “how can I just spend absolutely nothing to get this lay” and started escalating immediately to see what would happen…turns out you CAN just fuck them right away if you’ve got enough Attraction which it sounds like you do.

The difference between my advice to you and Scribblerg where I’m saying not to rush it is that Scribblerg works with his chick so there’s more potential for drama and he hasn’t been out with her yet so he has more face to face work to do whereas you’ve already got enough Comfort for her to come directly to your place (but even then I would keep the sexual talk low between now and her being at your door, just to be safe about not triggering ASD).

@The Man
“YaReally – for reals? What’s you take on this way of framing the game?”

Tyler’s Secret Society article is accurate. Don’t know what the “for reals?” part means.

“I was always a long-game guy and it seems with the HB9 (who’s gone mustang currently) and with the HB8 that this is working like a charm. I am speeding up with the HB7, 21yo but it’s interesting, I think I like to drag it out. I like the feel of seduction and the play of it.”

Ya, that’s why I’m not really rushing you on this chick. You don’t HAVE to have a drink in a hotel lounge and chill with her…but you CAN if you want. And it can be good for your reference experiences to spend an hour with a girl you know wants to fuck your brains out chasing you lol

Whereas DisgruntledEarthling just wants the fuck ASAP with his girl.

“Waiting until she was gagging for it ensures that will not happen. Fyi, that’s a tip that guys here who are trying to fuck women at work and other sensitive contexts might take to heart. Game the women you work with and fuck them, but make sure the interest is intense and the frame is appropriate”

This. Even in the old days if you miscalibrated or fucked up Buyer’s Remorse etc with a coworker there was only so far that gossip could go and so much it could affect your career. In the social media age you could be the next Mattress Girl victim. The more she’s chasing you the less likely you’ll have to deal with that drama.

@Sun Wukong
“I told her “Oh good, in that case we should go hang this weekend. Let’s grab pizza at this awesome place.””

Solid. And a good example of pushing things FORWARD, instead of making sideways chit-chat going nowhere like most guys do.

@scribblerg @Culum
“Keep the energy and pace up – they aren’t listening that closely and are more tuned into your energy and body language and subcomms in general.”


@scribblerg @Andy
“Do you have any idea how different your frame must be for you to have a convo with the wife like that without a bunch of drama? I’m blown away by your growth.”

lol I think it’s funny how everyone loves Andy now but when he first showed up here everyone hated him ’cause he was asking/saying his honest uncomfortable wonderings instead of just following the “I’m married and marriage is perfect and works out great when you’re a badass Red Pill boss like everyone else here and I have kids so of COURSE I’m happy and totally fulfilled with my relationship” bragging “good respectable Andy” narrative lol Great progress on his part in general.

@The Man
“What I’m getting at is the implications of the article fly in the face of some of redpill thought.”

You’re doing your vague shit again. “some things said by some people fly in the face of some redpill things”. Be specific so I can point out why you’re wrong lol Exactly what in the article “flies in the face of” exactly what redpill thought. Skip this vague shit.

“Maybe redpill and pua are only weakly related by way of just limited philosophical overlap. I want to know what YaReally thinks of that (and what Rollo thinks too).”

I can’t answer shit if you’re going to be vague.

“As such it implies players align themselves with woman-mind. It therefore implies that some redpill pundits uphold their philosophical alliance with pua, only by way of denigrating woman-mind, however it is not at all clear the such denigration is actually implied by pua philosophy”

This was a really elaborate way of saying “PUA/TRP is about supplicating to women”, which has been debunked countless times by Rollo, CH, etc

Learning to understand Chinese doesn’t mean you’re Chinese, it just means you can communicate with Chinese people better.

“I’m a fair-mined guy. I’m not about to go do some sex shit to women that is going to fuck them up because they are perceiving something different.”

Your internal view of your value is that sex with you is the worst thing a woman could have in her life. Think about how you view yourself and what you have to offer, to have that belief.

@ScribblerG @Sun Wukong
“Text her “fuck our wednesday night date, be outside your apt tonight at (whatever time works) and I’ll show you how the white goes solid at night on the highway when you go fast enough.””

lol I don’t recommend this ’cause it’ll be incongruent. Stick to the Wednesday date and just make sure to sexualize. This would have been decent as an initial invite though. But 1) sending it now looks like he has no other options for tonight and 2) if she rejects it now that’s two rejections and she’s building a pattern in her head of rejecting his invites and him still wanting to hang out with her (aka orbiter)

“I don’t quite feel entitled enough yet to stop girls walking out and down the street as I’ve mostly been doing situational openers at the bar/smoking area or even traffic light”

That’s partly because you view it as taking value. If you had a million dollars to give away you would have no problem stopping them. Or if you needed help but not sex, you’d have no problem asking for directions to some bar where you already had a hot girl waiting to suck your dick. But because you’re trying to get a specific outcome that your brain views as taking value right now (during sex with a hot girl you’re the one getting value instead of her, in your brain’s internal view of yourself), it’s like “ahhh I can’t just interrupt them!” lol

Just internal stuff holding you back.

“Especially since two of the hottest girls in the kiddie club gave me IOIs”

This is also partly why I make older guys hit kiddie clubs. So they can start seeing IOIs from girls and realize like “hmm, maybe I’m NOT this old man creeper after all…”

And yup to your 3s rule stuff. You can’t control the outcome, you’ll never fully predict everything from Open to Close, so just Open and learn to calibrate on the fly to what you’re given. Pickup is MESSY, the imperfections and personal expression and nuances you bring to it are part of what make it an artform.

“I got it out of my system. I was intentionally being a dick for a week. For sport debate.”

I hope your experiment was successful, thanks for showing a total disregard for everyone else’s time by wasting it. Will be sure to pass up engaging you in discussion in the future to avoid wasting my time on another Secret SJF Experiment.

“Speaking for myself, I have been dying to pass on much of what I’ve learned in life. somebody’s gotta get something out of all of this shit in my head.

The problem that I have run into, like a buzzsaw, is that things on the ground have changed and gone in such a different direction, that a lot of my helpful knowledge is no longer really relevant to a younger generation. Some can still get something out of what I can offer, but a majority will not unless I can modify my knowledge to relate to what’s taking place now.

Tall order.”

This is why I keep using you as a positive example of an older dude who’s contributions I value. You aren’t covering your ears going “LA LA LA” when we tell you culture has changed. I get that older guys have that “but, but I did all these THINGS!! I know all this STUFF!! I have all this wisdom and advice from all those amazing things I did with my life, I can HELP you!!” and there’s this mental image of the wise old grandpa teaching his kids and grandkids about life around the campfire.

And in the past, ya, that shit was how it probably worked. That was probably the primary way of passing down a lot of lessons.

But technology and the exponential speed it increases at has changed things. When I was a kid we had a set of encyclopedias in our house. Now I have that x10000000 in my fucking pocket lol And I don’t have to even read them, I can just type in search terms to find specifically what I want to know. I can go to the Ask Me Anything subreddit and literally ask my role models questions and read life advice from people WILDLY more successful than my grandpa was. I can put on some Tony Robbins and listen to endless hours of self-help wisdom, and I can put it on my iPhone to listen to while I’m taking a shit. I can join groups of hundreds of thousands of other guys fieldtesting all this advice and seeing what holds up.

We are able to gather information at a blinding pace compared to previous generations. Now the random average dude, sure, he’s probably NOT looking at all this information, he’s probably watching porn and Netflix, so ya, Ol’ Uncle SJF’s super deep wisdom is probably going to help that kid out. But when you’re an old dude talking down condescendingly to guys who’ve put hours into studying the shit that took you 50 years to figure out, in our 20s, from VAST resources available at our fingertips…like, fucking get a reality check lol It’s cool if you’re sharing information, but don’t talk down from some high-horse just because you have 20+ years on someone.

“Good knowledge is ageless.”

This. I don’t care who drops a solid wisdom bomb that holds up infield, I’ll give them props. And I don’t care who posts shit that doesn’t hold up infield, I’ll call them out. All I care about is an accurate knowledge-base for men to learn from.

That’s why I won’t just give guys a free pass because they’re old. We listened to people tell us “trust me, we know what’s best for you” our whole lives and ended up needing places like this. Shit doesn’t fly anymore. If you have advice to give, give it, and we’ll put it through the wringer to see what holds up. If it’s good solid knowledge, it’ll hold up to analysis. Demanding not to be questioned in a Red Pill forum is asinine.

“How many times has YaReally typed to me something like ” … and why would guys listen to what you’re saying? Why would they do what you say? Just because you said so?”.”

lol it’s not a diss at you❀ It's just literally like, put yourself in their shoes where you're just some old guy's name on the internet and consider that they have a million guys like you giving them all sorts of bullshit batshit keyboard jockey advice about life in some desperate ego-invested attempt to cling to the feeling of still having relevance in today's world. Why would they listen to you, just because you say so? When we listened to other people and didn't question it, we ended up here.

That's why I bring up the talking AT us instead of WITH us. You can't have a total disregard for your audience's reality and just shout at them about how things were when you were their age in a vastly different society. You have to understand what they're dealing with and realize that YES, some of what you know and have to teach them IS going to still be useful…but some of it is going to be outdated and no longer relevant. But you'll never be able to tell which is which if your approach is "sit down and shut up, nothing's changed, just do what I say and don't bother me with this whole "the culture has shifted" nonsense kiddo".

"So, imo, older dudes gotta keep an ear to the ground and a finger on the pulse if we wish to be helpful to the younger generations."

This is all my point is lol YOU get it. If I had experience playing football, and I joined a rugby team, I would understand that "some of what I know isn't going to be applicable here, I have to learn about what a rugby team's reality is like to help them, I can't just spout off football techniques and act like a butthurt crybaby when they tell me the sport is different and that tip doesn't really hold up on the field in rugby".

"I’m still realizing this is a neverending pattern."

Yup. Why would it end? You're still with her teaching her that you'll put up with this and come back for more. It'll escalate, not end.

"My friend telling me his situation with one of his exes really helped me solidify it a lot. Same deal: 80% of the time it was great, but that 20% of the time it was bad….watch out."

You know why he somehow has the same experience as you? Because that's ALL relationships with chicks like this. This is UNBELIEVABLY common. I said literally the exact same words as you about the 80/20 with my first GF who had crazy mood swings despite being a sweet angel 80% of the time till I finally broke it off because it kept escalating and passed my breaking point.

"Her whole argument, including accusing me of being selfish and self-concerned, is based on NOTHING but me not meeting her demands of me."


"Seems Beta to me, like if I mentioned all the things I do for her. It’d sound like I do shit for her because I’m trying to earn brownie points."

Yup. You don't logically discuss and negotiate this shit. You LEAVE.

"It isn’t even about being her ‘boyfriend’ or not. It’s a matter of respect."

If you verbalize being your boyfriend (because you already ARE her boyfriend, she just wants you to SAY it so she knows how much abuse you'll put up with), you will have taught her that the way to get what she wants with you is to just be as shitty and naggy as possible for as long as possible until you finally cave because you have too much scarcity to leave her for real (not just walking out and then coming back next week to cuddle her when she's upset).

And once you've set that pattern she'll just keep escalating her demands and acting the exact same way or worse to get you to give into them because you'll have demonstrated that that's how to interact with you. It's not about getting you to be her boyfriend. It's about power and control.

"She’s spun this into me hating her and treating her like shit."

Understand that this is how the buildup to False Rape/Abuse Accusations begins. She is demonstrating that when she doesn't get what she wants or you try to leave, she will paint you as an abuser. Extrapolate where that will lead when you actually DO try to leave her for real. Ask yourself how many people will believe your version of events over a crying girl's version.

You are playing with fire and that fire burns bigger the longer you stay in this relationship. You've already been in it for like a year since first coming here knowing it was fucked up.

"And it doesn’t mean I’m incapable of being mean, or being a dick, or doing anything wrong."

Never ever ever admit this to anyone when she false accuses you…this just tells them that even YOU admit you might have abused her in a bad moment. Start protecting yourself now. If you think you're traumatized NOW, wait till on top of all of this you also have friends/family/coworkers/etc that think you're an abuser/rapist.

"Maybe I’m masochistic or something."

No, you're in scarcity and scared to risk not getting another girl ever again even though that's pretty much impossible.

"But it does hurt when you feel that close to someone and want things to work out so badly but it just seems like a trainwreck in slow motion over and over again. "

It's going to get worse, not better.

"Shit has not been going well recently and one of the hardest things is without her I don’t have a support system."

You got one right here if you need it. You will NEVER be able to use a woman as your support system. Rollo can link you articles on it.

"Glad I can vent here, appreciate it a lot. One of the last male spaces on earth, at least in civilized society. Or so it seems that way."

See? Support network. You already know what to do about your situation, you've known for months.

You're not choosing to go back to being incel, I mean by definition you're CHOOSING celibacy for one thing, so the "involuntary" label doesn't hold up lol But you're choosing to be SINGLE and have opportunity, backed with access to game resources and guys to help you avoid the incel life, that's very different. You already GET iois from girls.

@Zhu Wuneng
"You are a feels cow trapped in an industrial feels-milking plant."

fucking lol

"Like, I was finally in a place where sex is not a big deal, non-judgemental, and a place where sex itself was value giving… But getting her to be slutty was coming from a place of value taking… So, it never really worked as well as it could."

A lot of guys' problem with women being My Secret Garden levels of sexual is that they aren't My Secret Garden levels of sexual with THEM. So it's like what, am I not good enough to get that side of you?? You gotta keep it locked away? I thought I KNEW you, I thought I was this super pimp to you that you'd share anything with and now I find out there's this whole Secret Garden in your mind that doesn't involve ME??

Similar to the guy who discovers his wife was a huge slut and got deepthroat trains run on her by the football team but she won't suck his dick because "it's gross, I just don't like that stuff baby :(" It's not so much the actual experience she had, it's that she won't have them with HIM and that's subcommunicating that she doesn't view him as sexworthy as he thought she did so it's a big crushing ego hit.

"and I can let the wife be slut from a place of value giving…. Already saw results last night… CRAZY SHIT… lol.. Fuck, I love life. I have so many delicious ideas… Man… There’s no way she’d meet anyone close to me after this."

lol glad you didn't detonate your relationship. This is much better overall and will be better for your kids. That's why I was pushing you to just sit on it for a bit and digest, don't make irrational emotional decisions in the moment. You'll be fine from here.

"They just want to be sluts, and be loved for it…. It’s such a pure desire really. You know, maybe slut isn’t the right word, but you get what I mean."

lol, they're just being who they naturally are.

Google "Boyfriend Destroyer" for some general strategy.

And remember the more Providery stuff you do together, the more you become competition for her boyfriend which ramps up her guilt/resistance because she's viewing it as "do I want to replace my BF with this guy?", VS if you can stay in the full Lover frame and even disqualify yourself AS a potential Provider (there's a reason married women like to hook up with married men, ya know?), where you're a separate category from him (essentially as a Lover you're supplementing what he's not giving her in their boring relationship).

"it’s great to be cocksure but no one is irreplaceable"

lol don't sperg it, let him have his confidence boost. Delusional confidence isn't about what's real or not and the Chadly pimp hand guys have delusional confidence. Andy needs some of that himself and his wife and kids need him to have it.

Sugar Babies

Original Link

via Rational Male

on July 11th, 2016 at 5:00 pm
Original Link

Oh lordy. Rollo how am I supposed to get any work done when you keep posting articles on such good fucking topics. I gotta not read this one till later in the week lol

on July 11th, 2016 at 5:10 pm
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But before I run away, the biggest thing to discuss in my mind in 2016 isn’t the sugar daddies that are actually GETTING sex. That shit’s been around forever.

It’s the culture we’re in that’s grooming boys into becoming sugar daddies who DON’T get sex and are OKAY with it. Like that kid in that video I posted where he donated all his money to a girl he’ll never even directly interact with let alone fuck and he was on cloud 9. If that kid was at least directly hiring her for sex, I mean, that’s just how shit has been since the beginning of time.

But the scary part is this breed of Blue Pill FI-conditioned guys coming up who are conditioned to hand their resources to women and feel ASHAMED for expecting ANYTHING from it, to the point where they’re HAPPY and TURN DOWN sex in exchange for it…like they’re literally convinced that they just want to make a girl smile and that’s enough for them, because she’s not some HOOKER SLUT, she’s a unicorn he just wants to take care of and expect nothing in return (except secretly hoping she’ll fall in love with him someday).

Technology has given these guys the ability to hand their resources over INSTANTLY, across the WORLD, for a girl they only see on a webcam or Instagram/Amazon Wishlist/Blog/Kickstarter/Patreon page, while the FI has conditioned them to do it and expect nothing in return.

That’s very different than even 10-20+ years ago where that kid in the video I linked would have no way to even KNOW that girl exists (he’d have to interact with girls around him pre-internet) let alone “fall in love” with her and wouldn’t have the technology to just shower her with his resources with the click of a button.

It’s fuckin crazy. It’s like they’re being conditioned into voluntarily becoming batteries powering the Matrix and will FIGHT someone trying to unplug them.

Sugar Babies

Original Link

via Rational Male

on July 11th, 2016 at 6:02 pm
Original Link

Also this thread is mandatory reading for this discussion, far as I’m concerned:

THIS is what’s really happening out there. This isn’t just a few random ex-hookers or some obscure anomaly cases or some shit. This is the culture hot girls with social media accounts are being bred into from their early teens and the type of thing that society is trying to normalize to girls. I’ve met a bunch of girls who have/had multiple sugar daddies and who are offered flights and vacations and all sorts of shit sometimes for sex sometimes for just their attention. And these are just NORMAL girls that you would never expect it from. And they openly discuss it with their girlfriends who have/had similar arrangements/offers. The only reason they talk about it with me is because I’m non-judgemental and bring the subject up in conversation because it’s interesting to me and then they start confessing or telling me about their friends.

It’s going to get worse and worse and more and more spread and more and more conditioned as “normal/acceptable”…why? Because why NOT? It’s win/win. The guys who would normally have no female attention have found ways to buy their attention, which gives them incentive to work hard and contribute to society to earn money/resources to afford it, and the women get resources for minimal effort (often no effort at all if they aren’t even putting out). And alphas still fuck whatever they want.

So who’s going to tear this system down or slow it up? That’s why I bring it up…it’s not fully widespread now, but I don’t see any reason this train will derail instead of picking up speed.

on July 11th, 2016 at 6:16 pm
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lol fuck I love this topic too much:

Imagine the internal “I’m the prize” value mindset you need to have to talk like this to someone offering you $20,000 lol like just “ugh, no promises, I’ll do what I want, but I’ll LET you give me $20,000 and a vacation I suppose, but my company should be enough to earn that $20,000”

And YOU (the average dude learning game) wanna go approach a girl while you’re internally thinking “I’m a loser😦 she wouldn’t like me😦 I don’t have any value to offer her :(” This is why internal game is important lol, you need to view your value the way this chick views hers.

She offers up her friends to join her in being WATERBOARDED while he jerks off to it. And then sends a video of her choking on a bottle of water for $1000 to prove she can do it.

And some guy is gonna marry her because he was so impressed at how noble she was when he met her at the rally against the cruelty of waterboarding terrorists for information.

Not every girl is doing this kind of thing to this level…YET. But like I say, why would the train derail? If you thought Nancy Friday was a good glimpse into the real deep psychology of women, try Instagram lol

on July 11th, 2016 at 6:17 pm
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hilarious shit for you guys in mod, save me @Rollo!

on July 11th, 2016 at 11:26 pm
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I made fun of the RVF’ers over their gay Pokemon thread but these guys make some good points in their reports:

For guys wanting to do Daygame esp the younger guys who grew up with Pokemon (it was just after my time for me so I know fuck all about it) it sounds like there could be a lot of potential given the dynamics of how it works. I’ll definitely be trying “Are you catching Pokemon?” out as an opener at the bars to girls with their phone out.

Probably something that’s only going to last for the summer/fall, but that’s still a solid window of opportunity to ride the wave and rack up some poon.

Also lol at the stories of nerds reporting sore legs from walking around in the sunshine for the first time in their lives etc This thing could help a lot of nerdy guys who WANT to get out there and socialize and make friends but don’t drink or want to go to bars. But a PUA walking into a group would instantly be the Hypergamous best option in the group to the girls and like they say in the thread Pokemon is popular enough that just from the sheer numbers involved there’s probably a lot of bangable girls into it (plus fatties are too lazy to leave their apartment and walk around VS girls using it as motivation to go for a jog/walk etc lol)

Interesting times we live in lol

on July 12th, 2016 at 8:47 pm
Original Link

“I think besides that though, it’s just a crap sandwich making zombies out of human minds. Sad to see these people walking around all day like that.”

At least they’re out of the house and walking around all day. I don’t think getting kids out of the house and walking around congregating in spots where they may meet new people and learn to socialize and make friends is a bad thing in the longrun. I’d prefer that over sitting in their basement glued to an xbox playing single player games.

@Sun Wukong
Last posts are all depressed as fuck and on the verge of suicide watch sounding…vanishes for a few months…comes back banging 19yos lol wtf happened?? DETAILS MOTHERFUCKER. lol Glad to hear you’re doing good.

“I have utterly abandoned the over 25 dating space…..”

lol but society says you’re supposed to look for an age appropriate woman to date Sun!! What, do you want to be happy and enjoy life or something??

Around 23 a girl starts experiencing “real life” but it’s fun and exciting…around 25 or so she starts getting tired of “real life” and then by 30 she’s just a barrel of misery and bitterness as all her hopes and dreams didn’t work out the way she thought they would when she was a happy bubble <25yo lol

Can't imagine spending my time hanging out with 30+yo women.

And motivation for scribblerg who was having some business/money issues recently:

"Heh, yeah life and work went in to asses and elbows time so I had to go do that. Good news is that I blew away the last of my debts, picked up the new camera I’d been wanting to snag for a couple years, and grabbed a used enduro bike to take with me living on the road for a couple years. Planning to load that and the Triumph I already had in to a toy hauler in 11 months and head out for a couple years. Now just need to find said hauler and a truck for under 20k or so…"

"But I gotta implore once more: guys, control yourselves with regards to the Hot Young Chicks narrative. For Christ sakes!!!"

I know right?? I gotta implore once more: starving ethiopian children, control yourselves with regards to the Delicious Nutrient-filled Food narrative. For Christ sakes!!! Look at me, I have all this food, I've been eating for my whole life and I can just push the plate away when I'm feeling full, it's just FOOD GUYS!! Think of how much food there is in the world!! There's BILLIONS OF STEAK DINNERS!! I can walk into Wolfgang Puck's restaraunt and order a DOZEN steak dinners tonight!!! C'mon THINK!!!!!! Quit pedestalizing this thing you desire and have never experienced any kind of abundance of!!!!"

Let's see how this works out lol

"The real skill in Alpha is getting girls to do things or give you stuff. I’m now at the point where girls are sending me hot selfies, wanting to cook for me, wanting to hang with me, etc etc. I now find myself becoming much more selective."

Welcome to the reality of being an HB10 girl lol

"You can pay and have a kept woman. But when you’re away what have you really got?"

Every girl I've ever talked to who's had or has Sugar Daddies speaks about them with complete disgust dripping from their tongues. I'm sure they put on a convincing act around those guys 'cause they're paid to, but every single one I've ever talked to has had absolutely zero respect for them and views them as basically a chump. Not a single one has EVER even remotely been like "Ya he was paying me at first, but like, over time I realized he was really amazing and now I'm SO attracted to him and in love with him…he's lost all his money but I stay with him because he's SO AMAZING" lol And pretty much all of them would bail for a SD who gives them more (or try to have them both on the go at the same time).

But like the Matrix some people don't care if the steak is 1s and 0s as long as it tastes enough like steak to satisfy. To each their own, as long as they're happy.

"I would skip right past a girl who looked like this for a promo event. She wouldn’t even register for my notice:"

That's sort of the point though. Same with the girl in your article pic. It used to be that when you mentioned sugar babies or arrangements or webcam girls etc that it was like "oh that's just some ex-pornstar or slut or super hot girl who does that"…but now it's like, these are just AVERAGE girls, being handed the rewards that only the hottest "should" be able to get. Because technology has given thirsty men way more options to engage with these girls and shower them with their resources. And the less the girls have to do the lamer the guys can be.

Women won't need provider resources from me, they'll have a dozen orbiter chodes and the gov't etc all handing them provision just for existing, even if they're like a 4 who took good Myspace angles.

Are these girls all flying to fuck all these beta guys? Fuck no, tons of them are just collecting $ for nothing but a smile or shoutout on Instagram or a really appreciative thankyou or a platonic asexual date every few months with no sex. 80/20 becoming 90/10…betas are basically going to have to either learn game and become alpha as fuck to get in the Lover category, or try to win the rat race against other men with endless resources as they all try to offer more and more to the girls (like I say, check the attitude on that girl being offered $20,000 and free vacations and shit up above, like that's chump change to her…if that kid donating $250 to his webcam crush wants her, that kid is going to have to earn enough to be able to throw away $20,000 like it's nothing), or just MGTOW/grasseater out of the whole thing completely.

"@YaReally, have you been reading the anti-gay tweets Matt Forney’s been getting his click-bait fix with recently?"

God no. I can't imagine seeking out these guys' Twitter feeds. Might as well jam nails in my eye sockets.

"Basically he’s taking Milo Yiannopolous to task for being a false-flag alt-right gay degenerate."

Matt Forney is probably just jealous that he's not the only faggot in the Manosphere now. Seriously, I have no idea why anyone gives him any kind of attention, the dude is just a parasite riding coattails lol

"Someone who isn’t me needs to link him the pictures of Roosh having dinner with him in London while he was on tour last year. Entertaining."

I don't know why you wouldn't do it yourself, half the RVF fucking hates you because you dared question their cult leader Roosh…no reason not to troll them lol

@newlyaloof @Rollo
"@Sentient, what the hell do we tell our daughters growing up now? I’d like to tell my daughter to not waste her value on lowlifes and try to find a nice alpha entrepreneur and have some babies as quickly as possible down the road, but man! So many landmines out there and now this. Rollo, what the hell are we fathers of daughters supposed to tell them?"

This'll be the big question. Sure I can rawdog some girls and pop out a kid but how the fuck would I raise them in this culture? Even Rollo writing a book about it, like, that's great but his daughter and her friends didn't have Instagram social media culture/pressure at 13 and Tinder at whatever the earliest age on Tinder is etc like girls these days.

And then how do you keep them on track but get them to also settle down into marriage in their prime when all of society is pushing them to ride the carousel as long as possible and they can't see any wall in front of them?

And that's just the daughters not the sons…time for a /r/redpillparenting/ to collect and share notes? lol

"Oh and newly… give them advice… DO NOT isolate… how to put up the NO hand when a guy goes for a kiss etc."

Thing is if they're attracted to the guy they WANT isolation, they WANT the kiss. If they're not attracted to the guy they'll already try to avoid isolation and snub the kiss. You're trying to teach them to go against their biological hardwiring in the moment when that hardwiring is telling them "YES GO WITH HIM!!" "YES LET HIM KISS YOU!!"

"The primary reason they usually cite for SBing is tuition or some noble-sounding, career-building investment"

lol ya I can't wait to break my arm as soon as all these strippers, hookers and sugar babies finally finish those medical degrees they tell me they're working to pay for. It'll be like hopping an ambulance to the playboy mansion.

The reality is: why WOULD they think longterm? Someone will save them. Men HAVE to think longterm…we learn very early on that the world will chew us up and shit us out and we'll have to fend for ourselves if we fuck up…every homeless shelter you pass and see guys just like you begging for change is a reminder of what happens if you don't think long-term. But even when it's VITAL that we think long-term STILL tons of men DON'T.

So why would women? You'll never see an HB6 cutie in a homeless shelter (unless she's super fucked up lol). 'cause someone will rescue them from their bad decisions. Go rack up a ton of debt in school taking some pointless course and when you get bored of having to actually work, let a guy with a job rawdog you and he'll pay everything off for you to bail you out of your bad decision. And if he won't, turn on the waterworks and a dozen other guys will line up to save you asking nothing in return.

Women are picturing themselves as Sex in the City in their career, like at 30-whatever they'll be just like those girls and then a Mr Big will come save them and give them kids and marriage and a home life. They aren't picturing getting out of bed exhausted on a Monday morning at age 53 with their bones aching and dragging themselves to an office where the younger hotter version of them is getting all the attention and gunning for their job while they struggle to focus on the work in front of them because they feel sick all the time and they go home to an empty apartment where they live alone with their cats and mountains of debt racked up lol

"This can’t end well for either side, but like YaReally said, there’s no obvious force that will derail this trend and plenty that will likely expand it."

It's gonna get fucked UP when these old wall victims really hit the mainstream. Like a lot of them are still in that 29-35 age range where they MIIIGHT still get a high enough value guy to commit to them. But when those girls hit 35-40+ and put their full blogging force into action to try to correct the unfairness of life, it's going to get fucking surreal lol

@newlyaloof @Sentient
"Wife already took it upon herself to get the kids these hand held devices that allow them to send email and play games."

Understand that to WOMEN, those things are fucking VALUABLE. Those stupid little devices increase their potential range of alpha males infinitely. Without one of those devices, they have to choose from the handful of guys in their hometown, maybe settle down with a 7 SMV dude who's kind of beta and they struggle with the bills now and then to keep the kids fed, but at least he's not as bad as the rest of the guys around her.

With one of those stupid little devices, she can theoretically marry a billionaire celebrity from another part of the country and have his alpha kids and unlimited provision for life for them to survive.

So ya, of COURSE your wife would instinctively want her daughter to have that kind of thing available to her.

For a boy you could argue similar, he'll have more access to a wider selection of girls, but realistically the girl is the one that benefits more because the boy has to do the chasing and competing even online while she can sit back and sort through the invites and offers for the best ones.

@Blaximus @fleezer @scray
Oh god. Unclutch your pearls, gentlemen.

What scray is saying is that TO THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION, a woman has high value. You guys are up in arms about "DUDE DON'T PEDESTALIZE THEM!!!" He's not talking about to HIM they have pedestal value, he's saying TO SOCIETY they do, and understanding that "women are currency" allows you to use that value for various shit outside of just getting your dick wet.

"i’m going to TAKE THE VALUE she has and USE IT FOR MY PURPOSES"
"nah dude. you’re just confusing internal belief systems that have utility for external behavior with the cold hard facts of this society."
"so yeah I “give a fuck” in the sense that i can recognize “this chick is hot. most guys are completely powerless against hot pussy because of biology and upbringing. if i bring this hottie around she can probably help me make some money/get into venues/etc. etc.”"


Blax/Fleezer are going into "BRO DON'T PEDESTALIZE THEM" territory when he's just stating that like, look, if I want my restaurant do well am I going to hire ugly 4s to serve or 9s? BRO DON'T PEDESTALIZE THEM PUSSY AIN'T SHIT BRO!!! Oh, okay, then you'll hire a staff of 4s will you? Let's see whether your or scray's restaurant does better business lol

Nothing wrong with acknowledging this shit, un-twist your panties guys lol

"I just don’t personally buy into giving a chick anything, as far as high value in my head, because she’s hot or whatever."

He never said to do that. He was talking about their objective value to society from the start.

"The objectification and scrutiny we put women through is absurd and disturbing. The way I am portrayed by the media is simply a reflection of how we see and portray women in general, measured against some warped standard of beauty."

lol she didn't seem to mind when everyone was tuning into Friends to fap to her. Like I say, this shit is going to get fucking crazy when more girls hit this 40+yo range and start being treated like men get treated their whole lives (no special treatment etc).

"we are complete with or without a mate, with or without a child."

I'm sure feminists' cats will enjoy hearing these stories from them when they're 50.

"About an hour before sex, complain about your work, how stressed it is making you, how depressed you are all the time, that you feel very sad about the shootings, that you feel like quitting and just playing video games, that you feel like a loser. Keep going for an hour, then say “well let’s have sex, it is the one thing left for me”, and let us know how the sex goes"

lol'ed hard at this. Throw in that you've lost your wealth and see how long she sticks around.

@hank holiday
Good stuff. Do yourself a favor and do whatever you can to get an apartment as near as possible (or IN) the bar/club district so you have easy logistics for both going out and for pulling. Even if you have to take a smaller apartment or whatever…you can always move to another area in a few years when you've got your game skills handled. The easier it is to sarge the faster you'll see improvements and get it handled.

Props on looking into it and taking right action toward your goals. Remember you can always get a temporary job for a year or two and just apply for a better job while you're doing that one and sarging, you're still a young dude.

And ignore the haters. The guys who complain are always the guys who don't offer any kind of value in their posts themselves lol

on July 12th, 2016 at 11:04 pm
Original Link

@Sun Wukong
lol now you know why I throw out the close or invite to join us/me after her shift if we have a good vibe while she’s serving. I lost a toooon of hired guns I could’ve had if I had made a move, because I was stalling for time and didn’t realize the turnover rate is so high. Soon as you realize she’s no longer working there it’s like ahh damn (tho often you’ll find he working in another similar place lol).

The way I view going for the number or after-shift instadate/hangout with a Hired Gun (that you have A2/iois from, VS one that’s just in and out in business mode) is there’s only good outcomes…either:

1) She says yes and then doesn’t flake. Great! Bang her, she’s been on her feet all day she’ll enjoy being off them when she’s on your bed.

2) She says yes and then flakes. Who cares? Don’t call her out on it, don’t even bother txting with her or expecting an apology or anything, just go there again and DHV and then say “I’d invite you out again but you broke my heart last time, I stayed up all night crying into my pillow” etc etc and make her invest harder into it and tell you she’s not going to flake again etc. High odds she won’t flake and you’ll bang her.

3) She says yes and then flakes multiple times. Who cares? Just stop txting/inviting her and use her as preselection/social proof when you’re in the venue to get other girls in front of her (or bring girls there and use them all to boost your value to each of them). She may end up asking when you’re free down the road and you can bang her then, or you get to bang a bunch of other girls because you have a hot waitress/bartender who lights up when she sees you.

4) She says no because she has a boyfriend or doesn’t have enough A2 yet or has ASD about handing her number out at work (have her write it on the cheque and slide it to you subtly) or something. Who cares? Just don’t look rattled or make it a big deal or drama, just lol about it or try a BF shit-test passing routine and just BE NORMAL ABOUT IT instead of butthurt or making the vibe weird, and she’ll keep flirting with you whenever you come in because you’ve shown intent so you’ve separated yourself from the pack and she’ll at least respect it AS LONG AS YOU DON’T MAKE IT WEIRD (I stress this because this is what most guys do, they get a rejection and then get all fucking awkward and then the girl feels awkward and then she associates you with bad feels and it all spirals down).

And if you still want her, you can always run BF Destroyers on her as you keep DHV’ing. Again interact with other girls around her and keep DHV’ing and eventually she’ll either give enough A2 to give it another go, or you’ll get laid by the other girls and waitresses/bartenders because she’ll have nothing but praise for you even tho she can’t bang you and you’ll have her as preselection whenever you go there. Because you didn’t make it weird.

And if she ends up quitting before you can fully close and she ends up working somewhere else in the nightlife industry, guess what, you’ve got preselection at wherever she ends up working, and value to the other staff girls and staff guys and customers there because she runs up to hug you when you walk in (and you of course say something like “oh no, I thought I was finally rid of you…you must be stalking me”) or you chat with her for 10 min as the club fills up whenever you go there and the girls beside you get frustrated that she isn’t serving them because she’s talking to you lol

5) She says no because she’s not attracted to you. This shouldn’t happen because you were supposed to wait to close her until you had A2, go read Mystery Method again lol If she’s giving you a bit of A2 but not enough to close, then you’re in situation number 4 above.

There are no other outcomes if you DHV till you get A2 first.

The “she says no and it’s super awkward and you can’t ever go there again” outcome is when the guy makes things weird or tries to do it before he’s DHV’ed and gotten A2 from her.

And if you’re travelling or will never be in the venue again then fuck it, go for broke and hail mary whether you have A2 or not if you want, what do you care you’re not gonna be there again lol

Life is short, what’ve you got to lose? #YOLO!!! lol

on July 13th, 2016 at 12:30 am
Original Link

“What do you think you are adding here?”

Ya, he really should’ve focused on pointing out a girl making a spelling error that we can all see she made. You know, that hard-hitting content you contribute.

on July 13th, 2016 at 7:03 pm
Original Link

“It does reveal, though, that many more women would openly hook, or do something like SBing, which is the functional equivalent of hooking, if they could do so without stigma, and also without feeling like they were hooking.”

This goes back to what scray and I were saying about with the Nancy Friday shit. Like, this whole “what, women would do this stuff?!” mindblowing experience a lot of red pill guys will go through hearing about all of this is just the tip of the iceberg. This is a good demonstration of “look what happens when you provide an environment with no judgement or consequences etc” and guys will accept these stories despite the hard swallow…but then we take it a bit further down the looks/kinks/queensnake/dog-fucking/being-passed-around-the-tribe/etc path and suddenly it’s the same resistance as a Blue Pill guy would have to accepting this open Sugarbaby thing. Women are capable of “sexual depravity” that would blow guys’ minds, if their environment were such that they felt like there was zero judgement or consequence for it. Being able to see this stuff in text screencaps and anonymous website stats etc and how casual the girls are (like that waterboarding girl I posted earlier is just offering up her friends like it’s nothing, there’s no “hmm I don’t know, gosh, this is so against my morals and virtues”) is giving everyone a glimpse beneath all the layers of bullshit acting girls have to do to avoid judgement by society.

“I know many many 26-28 YO’s that have gotten married in the last year. and many many 24 and 25 YO’s that have gotten engaged.”

lol well ya I mean, getting them to get married is one thing, but that’s just convincing them to have a party celebrating themselves. I’m talking about how do you convince them to get married and then not blow that marriage up? I know many 24-28 YO’s that are sucking the dicks of my buddies and I even though all their friends family and significant others think they’re NAWALT angels. That’s not a “win” in my books, ya know? Like how many kids aren’t allowed to eat junk food growing up then leave home and pig out and end up fat…sure there’s parenting involved but there’s a point where that kid is on their own in a society that’s pushing that stuff on them. I’m sure it’s worse in big city areas than rural but still…my question is just how the fuck do you teach them to even WANT to stand up against all that social pressure in the first place?

Good god tell me the pic used at the top of that Sugarbaby Seminar isn’t an actual pic of the clients. I don’t want to lose my last strand of faith in the world.

“it is an important question for the active PUA set: if my end goal is fucking a variety of hot young pussy, and that transaction is not only acknowledged socially, but also encouraged, wouldn’t the time and energy men expend in learning Game be better spent on making oneself more affluent, wealthy and status significant?”

If that’s your goal, sure. But that’s rarely actually men’s end goal. Their end goal is generally to feel legitimate desire from women, not just a wet hole…otherwise they would just go fuck hookers. Even a lot of guys who THINK they just want a wet hole only tell themselves that because they don’t feel like they CAN get desire from women.

Like guys don’t generally find the PUA community by typing in “how do I fuck a harem of girls in nightclub bathrooms?” They find it by typing in “How do I get a girlfriend?” on a sad lonely night.

It’s all good if they want to go the money route. As long as they don’t convince themselves the girl actually gives a shit about them…that’s what Bob the accountant thinks about Candy the stripper he showers with money. “She really understands me, she gets me, we have a connection, she’s practically my girlfriend…you guys don’t understand, this is love” And then he finds out the hard way when the cash flow stops that Candy was just REALLY FUCKING GOOD at acting when it got her endless provision lol Same with the guy who marries the chick who divorce-rapes him when she gets bored because she was bored to BEGIN with and just wanted access to his resources, but he convinced himself she desired him. Same with the guy who thinks he has a sugarbaby that’s into him “FOR REALZ” and then he finds out she has other SDs on the side or bails for an SD who has more money to offer her.

Even if I won the lottery tomorrow and got rich, I would keep it hidden to see which girls are attracted to me WITHOUT the provision.

Travelling alone is a great way to gain little reference experiences of self-reliance. Like you’re often forced to interact with strangers for help and leave your comfort zones etc but you come out of it with positive experiences (or at least no negative experiences) and your brain slowly starts to learn “you know what, maybe I’m more capable of survival in the world than I felt like I was when I was just holed up in my room at my parents’ place”.

Your main issue sounds like you have no gameplan for socializing, so it’s daunting. I wouldn’t want to go swimming without a gameplan for how to stay afloat either lol Google for Magic Bullets PDF by LoveSystems for probably the shortest guide to basic approaching girls gameplan stuff. Everyone sarges solo at first, I spent YEARS doing solo game…Just throw in a “my buddy had to bail on me tonight but I was already showered up so I figured I’d come out anyway” or “oh my buddy is upstairs/downstairs talking to some girl” or “oh I was on a Tinder date but she was crazy so I ran away and didn’t feel like going home yet” if you’re worried about being judged as the solo guy.

You could also focus on making friends first and developing a social circle, which would give you people to go out with and more of a support network. Or at least befriending staff etc so you don’t feel so alone at the venues. Here’s my quick “newbie starting up in a new city” guide (this is for @hank too, when he moves to a better city):

Your parents probably love having you around, especially during stressful times. But they also probably want to know that you’re going to be able to take care of yourself when they’re gone someday so that you don’t have to go through the same stress they’re going through. I’m not a father, so maybe the dads here can chime in, but personally if I had a son I would much rather he take care of himself so that I know he’ll be alright on his own, than take care of me. My parents were worried about me not having any friends or social life and just keeping to myself in my bedroom all the time never leaving the house. Looking back they weren’t worried I was going to become a serial killer lol they were just worried like “how’s my kid going to survive when he gets into the real world on his own?” I went from living in the same bedroom I was in from babyhood, to suddenly moving to a completely new city in another part of the country for a job where I didn’t know ANYONE or ANYTHING about the city and was basically thrust into having to figure everything out on my own. I fucked up here and there but overall I grew and learned and about a year after that is when I started studying PUA.

“So yeah, I’m stuck at the starting point. It’s pathetic really and it fucking sucks.”

It’s alright, everyone starts out there. Doesn’t matter where you start from, what matters is that you start to take right action toward getting where you wanna go, even if it’s a slow journey. The fact that you’re even on a site like this is more effort than 99% of guys would put into fixing their lives in your situation.

@Sun Wukong
“Lose the weight, stop covering yourself in tats, don’t be a bitch, and if that don’t do it then you have to get a real job because women wanted equal rights.”

lol this. When I see that room full of fat ugly old women trying to learn to Sugarbaby I just shake my head. But if that was a room full of looks-equivalent dudes I would think “any one of those guys has the potential to get hot girls”. The fucked up part is a lot of those women WILL be able to become Sugarbabies…it just won’t be for high-value guys, it’ll be for loser chodes. But there is a HUGE abundance of those guys willing to pay for attention out there, even for Skype conversations with a Myspace angled fatty.

“Getting the lay is great, but most guys stop way short of what’s possible.”
“Scray is absolutely right about beautiful women being useful in getting a man things.”

This is what he was saying lol That’s why I was like why are fleezer/Blax giving him shit for pointing out a reality.

“When a guy has high value, she always ends up paying.”

This, like you don’t even need money for it either. Girls know I’m a bum and know they’re paying for our dinner/drinks if they want to go on an actual date. Woah, I’M A SUGARBABY NOW. lolol

But this goes back to The Great Happiness Space documentary I always link, about the host clubs in Japan where the guys often don’t even give the girls SEX (’cause if they do the girl gets validated and doesn’t come back VS stringing her along just out of reach (cat string theory)). One of the guys mentions that it’s not just about giving them good emotions, it’s about giving them the full range of emotions including scolding them like a father figure when they’re in rapport and the girl admits to doing something dumb/bratty/retarded etc These guys aren’t all jacked tall dudes, they just understand chick-psychology (since their business requires it) and what the girls are REALLY paying for (emotional impact).

“Ya can go out and get a free bathroom fuck in an hour. But he’d have to invest a bit more than his time and some game to get her to hand him five hundred bucks when it was over. Getting her to willingly hand over resources along with the pussy is the mark every guy should be aiming for. And unless you are the Chad to end all Chads, that’s going to require some kind of investment.”

lol it’s just emotional impact. You don’t have to marry them or anything. It’s getting even easier to do this now that women all have their own careers/money too. They don’t have anything significant to spend their money on because they’re single and Feminism has pushed the whole equality thing hard to where her spending money on a guy is empowering lol

“But when guys ask, “why get married?” This is why.”
“We were late to a show once. Theater was packed. No reserve seating. Usher takes one look at my wife and leads us all the way to the front row where two seats magically awaited us.”

You don’t have to get married to have this lol I’ll get the same treatment showing up with a hot fuckbuddy I’m not legally tied to. We use girls for this kind of stuff all the time.

“My wife is also a great buffer for me. When people meet her first, they can’t help but like me already, without me ever having to say a word.”

Again, no reason to be legally married for this. One hot girl on your arm gets you respect/props regardless of whether you’re married to her or not…multiple hot girls on your arm (at the same time or different ones at multiple encounters) gets even MORE respect/props lol

Not discounting what you do with your wife, just making sure guys understand they don’t have to risk their asses or commit to monogamy to get this stuff. You just have to understand what women need.

“Relating back to what SJF said, the open ended question stuff, in terms of the mystery method, is part of the Conversation and Connection phase, but this is after A1 (openers, false time constraint, neg), A2 (making her interested by DHV’ing with a story of some sort), and A3 (you showing interest in her)?”

Put yourself in the shoes of a high-value guy, like a AAA celebrity with shit to do: why would you WANT to get to know someone who hasn’t earned your interest (A3)? You don’t have time for that. And similiarily why would SHE want to get to know someone who hasn’t earned HER interest (A2)? Most normal AFC average guys will open a girl and miss A1, have no idea about A2, and go right into either A3 (“you’re so pretty”) or C1 trying to build a connection with her. But it’s like, you haven’t shown any value to her, why would she want a connection with you, and what does it say about how much you value yourself and your level of scarcity that you seek a connection with a girl who hasn’t even earned your interest?

Make sense? A1-A3 can happen fast, and you CAN just ask open ended questions from the start and it CAN work out by fluke stumbling into accidentally flipping the right triggers, but MM is about shooting for consistency.

@hank @PlaydontPay
“Point is that its helpful for newbies to see what the process is like if you are starting from a socially retarded upbrining”

The value in hank’s FRs is that 1) they show a realistic version of what sarging is…it’s not all peak moments and bathroom pulls. Especially at the start when you don’t have a great logistical situation living somewhere shitty. There’s a grind aspect to it at the beginning where you can still learn and make progress but you’re going to go out and have low-key sarging sessions…everyone cries about “PUAs just show the BEST PICKUPS, they NEVER SHOW REJECTIONS, their marketing is all SCAMS that say you’ll slay poon the second you take their course they don’t mention all the downtime and the grind!!” And then we have a guy who’s posting showing the grind of it and suddenly it’s “fuck that guy, I just wanna see the highlight reels!! But then I’m still going to bitch that PUAs don’t show anything but the highlight reel!!”

And 2) these FRs now will have more value down the road when hank is a couple years in and in a new city and slaying it, just like scray’s early FRs were probably boring to read too, but now they serve as massive inspiration for guys who are starting out from the bottom themselves seeing how much progress they can make if they apply themselves, just like these guys will.

Excellent observations.

“Most don’t have access to much real femininity, to the degree that they don’t even know they want it”

A lot of the “the girls in EE/Asia/wherever are way hotter than those American sluts” thing in the Manosphere isn’t actually about hotness levels. There are TONS of hot American chicks and lots of EE chicks have fucked up teeth and shit. But it’s more about femininity. American culture tends to stomp out the femininity in women so it’s harder to find it than in EE. That feminine energy helps us feel masculine and triggers all sorts of instinctive desire/urges etc in us. There are plenty of feminine girls in the West, you can find that American 10 who’s also feminine, you just have to understand that you’ll have to screen for them a bit more and whether that’s worth it to you.

“are 20 something year old men as in awe of young(er) chicks as us older guys?”

lol what? Why wouldn’t they be?

“I long for a return to a reasonable perspective”

Of course you do, you’ve had your fill of hot young pussy. But good luck convincing the guys who are you when you were 20 years old that they should have a “reasonable perspective” lol

“In my mind, older, mature men populating these SB sites need a swift kick in the balls..figuratively”

Sure, but are you going to suck on those balls for them after you kick some sense into them? Because they’re being rewarded with that kind of attention from girls. You can complain all you want but unless you’re offering some reward/incentive, why would they change? Just ’cause you want them to? lol

I don’t disagree with you of course, but you’re just shouting on a street corner “CHANGE DAMMIT!! EVERYONE, CHANGE!!!!” They don’t have any reason to and you don’t have a plan for them to follow that’s going to work as well as the instant gratification they get when that girl they hand their resources to lights up on her webcam and sends them kissy emoticons lol

Like I say, I WISH men had your mindsets. There’d be no need for PUA if they did. But the reality is they don’t and they don’t have the influences you had growing up and one day (knock on wood) you’re not gonna be around to even offer these rants. Boys are going to be raised by the chodes leaving Likes on your daughters’ Instagram selfies. That’s part of why I make an effort to write all this shit I write and am glad Rollo is doing what he’s doing, because this will all live on long after we’re gone. It’s possible that in a couple of generations the archives of what we’re talking about here (and the Red Pill, PUA, MGTOW, etc communities) may literally be the only real guides for boys/men, with real life role models neutered by the FI or dead. They may read this stuff the way we watch old black and white movies with alpha characters to try to model.

@Jedi Wonk
“I can still remember him cringing away from her because she was always obviously trying to drag him away to her bed. And he would frequently show up late to meetings and totally disheveled, while she would call ahead to me and say, “Sorry, I was just insatiable again this morning.””

lol part of why I encourage guys to hyperfocus on PUA first and focus on their careers after they have it handled is that it’s a lot easier to turn down sex or “hanging out with a girl” (aka doing fucking nothing, just watching Netflix and shit) to work when you have an abundance of it in your life. Like Bill Burr says: “Do you know how many Richard Pryor’s or Jimi Hendrix’s are working at a Home Depot because they hooked up with some twat who talked them out of their dream” lol Your buddy has enough money to fuck up a bit and be fine, but for a LOT of guys getting wrapped up in one-itis and scarcity mindsets will fuck their career goals up hardcore (“oh, I was going to take this dream job but my girlfriend wants to go take gender studies at this college in another city and I love her so fuck my dreams I’m going to follow her” (and then she cheats on him because him giving up his dreams for her was chode as fuck to her)).

@hank holiday
“Funny thing was, he didn’t seem to mind at all. And as we got to talking about mountains, skiing, and mountain biking, he was MUCH MORE engaged than the chick.”

lol this is why hitting the field and pushing your comfort zone is important. Guys LARPing will tell you any guy who’s girl you talk to will be an MMA badass ready to throw down and will knock your teeth in for daring to talk to his girl in front of him. The reality is most guys are pretty friendly/cool as long as you give them some value/acknowledgement. That guy can end up becoming your biggest asset when you come off just 0.00001% cooler than him to the girl, or moreso if he becomes your fanboy in the interaction and helps throw the girl at you (if he’s not her boyfriend lol).

“Other thing is, to work in sexual things with this. Get the dude engaged — its pretty easy to do.”

You got it. The trick here is that guys are VERY UNCOMFORTABLE talking about sex. ESPECIALLY orbiters hanging out with girls they have a crush on…they want to avoid sex talk because that might reveal they have a penis to the girl and it’s un-gentlemanly etc. But girls love that shit. So when you go onto a sexual tangent, the guy had no problems keeping up with the convo about normal stuff, but he doesn’t know what to say on sexual topics and what’s appropriate and what the girl will think etc and panics, while you come off casual about it and the girl registers that difference between you two.

“Not sure how you’d really transition into poaching her. But I think that’s how’d you start out. Win over the dude. Talk mostly to him. DHV as you do. Sexualize briefly. Keep chatting with the dude, jester him, talk about how cool he is. Lol, maybe you could indirectly boyfriend destroyer him there? Like talk about how cool he is and how lucky she is to be with him. So in her head she’s thinking of all the negative things about him. But all she knows about you are your DHVs. So you seem the better choice. But you don’t tip off the dude since you are talking mostly to him and talking about how cool he is.”

Look at you go. You just connected all the dots between running mixed sets, AMOGing, Boyfriend Destroying, and taking girls off other guys without getting your ass kicked. Well done. πŸ™‚ That’s why you gotta hit the field, so this stuff makes sense to you. Now that you’ve been in that kind of interaction you can see how that would all work together to take the girl from him without him kicking your ass…often the guy will just back off and assume you DESERVE the girl more than him, which is hilarious, like he knows he can’t compete with you or thinks you’re a “good guy” (because you’ve been giving him props and stuff and he doesn’t know that lowers his value to her) and approves of you etc

“It will be much easier in the new city, since I can “instadate” groups like this — just join them to the next venue, or get their digits to hang out on another day”

Yup. One thing my buddy and I like to do is go street sarge early when people are still heading to the bars and just join a group to wherever they’re going or try to convince people to come to where we’re going.

“Hey I am new.”

lol I said I was new to town for like 3 years when I started out.

“Should iron that out a bit more. That stack.”

Yup. The amount of spiking you put in it is about all you need…that’ll get you more than enough IOIs/A2 to qualify and go into A3. The A1 stuff is more fun to think about, but remember the qualifying/A3 is what’s going to shift the interaction into actually going somewhere, so be sure to focus on coming up with solid qualifiers. Those are where the next stage of your progress is going to come from.

“Something like “What’s the absolute WORST store/restaurant/whatever around here?””

Personalize it to her so you’re qualifying HER, this is more just fluff conversation where you’re qualifying the environment. And when she passes it, show some intent in your reward…like “And here I was thinking you were just another pumpkin spice latte lesbian…” is funny, but “hmmm, maybe you’re not just another pumpkin spice latte lesbian after all…what’s your name?” is showing more “you’ve won me over, so NOW I’m interested in you” intent. Like you had one perception of her but she’s shown she’s not that, so she gets a reward…like a classic one was “You know when we first started talking I thought you were (insert negative thing), but I’m starting to think you might actually be (insert positive thing)…What time are you off shift? (or whatever, a Statement of Intent).

“This FROM THE START sets me OUT of the customer frame”

This is the biggest part of working Hired Guns. Even back in the MM days the biggest key taught was “GET YOURSELF OUT OF THE CUSTOMER FRAME”. When Tyler is trying on jackets with the girl he’s not actually letting her think he’s going to buy one, she can tell he’s just fucking around bored and isn’t a customer. To Hired Guns you’re in the customer frame by default and they’ll run on autopilot by default…snap them out of that as soon as possible to start having a “real” interaction.

“Starting OUT being a friendly chat amongst friends resolves that. The “was today busy?” opener works best for girls at work.”

Ya, I just assume rapport with waitresses as if we’re old friends, like when they come up I don’t just say my order, I joke around and comment on the night or whatever as if I’m talking to a friend, even make fun of the place/crowd and set up an “us VS them” frame with her where like my table is where she isn’t “at work” like the other tables. When my buddy and I hit stripclubs the girls will often come chill with us without asking if we want dances (or having asked but being turned down) because we just talk to them like they’re normal girls and we become their “break” from working…they know they can come chill with us and drop the stripper persona and just joke around and rest their feet for a bit before they have to go put the persona back on and work the room. But it’s because we take ourselves out of the customer frame as soon as possible…and ya some of them go “ok bye” lol, and that’s fine. But the point is that these girls are generally just normal girls underneath the surface customer/hired gun frame and you can tap into that.

“because I am getting caught up in what to say in the moment”

It can help to just have one or two that you always use VS 10, so you don’t get paralysis by analysis in the moment and can put that on auto-pilot. Basically plan a tighter routine stack and leave yourself less room to “wing it”…you’ll naturally wing it riffing with her once you say it, but go in with a tighter plan in mind.

“DHV for this is the stalker one. Not too sexual for daygame in very public venues. So to transition:”

It’s a solid routine. For Daygame especially you should have enough A2 after this to qualify/A3 her (the more she plays into the story and tries to actually help you, the more A2 you have…if she won’t play along at all, loop back to A1 with some cold reading teasing etc)

“If she’s already giving sold A2 — run my qualification routine (what you like THAT?/you’re loosing me here/oh, that is pretty cool — and go into comfort). If not, do a cold read/role play. Cold reading/roleplaying around her degree or future career has been pretty solid so far.”

Yup, should be fine. Just gotta apply it in the moment. Write it down in your phone to read as you’re out if that helps, lots of us took cheat sheets infield (and some have been lost on bar floors for someone to discover and go “wtf” lol).

“I need to practice these at home. As if I was practicing for a speech. Run through my bookstore stack, twosome stack, working girl stack. This will help a bunch.”

Obama probably practices his speeches in front of the mirror. No shame in it, we all did it. Remember not to rush your story, a lot of the emotional impact in stories/humor/etc come from the timing and build-up/tension etc, VS just dumping all the info out as fast as possible.

“There’s you a good outline of a min long convo. just from a guy saying ‘you mind if I change the blinds.’ but bear in mind, my style is humor, so your approach to this convo may be different.”

Jesus that was solid, not even for a newbie just in general that’s the type of interaction my buddies and I would have in that situation. I think I’M more frustrated that you’re trapped in that shitty city than YOU are lol I am dying to see what happens when you get to a real city and can let this shit loose.

Also notice how you didn’t hesitate in this conversation ’cause you weren’t trying to fuck the guy (OR WERE YOU). So your brain is like “I can say whatever stupid shit comes to mind” and you have no real outcome dependence. Whereas with the store girl it’s like “WHICH DHV IS GOOD ENOUGH AHHH!!!!” That’s why just having one or two solid DHVs to choose from and a pre-planned structure where “when I say this part, if she responds like this I’ll say this otherwise I’ll say that” that you just religiously follow, can help ’cause it takes the “is this good enough to say??” part out of it and replaces it with “I’ll say this because it’s in my “script””.

Which yes, yes, Natural game is better, yes yes scripted approach robots bla bla bla Right now you need positive reference experiences of you pushing a button and getting a certain reaction so your brain understands how much of these interactions is actually under your direct control, and for your brain to not worry about what to say as much by giving it shit to say so it doesn’t have a choice. Ride the bike with training wheels on, we take those off later when your brain understands how pedals and handlebars work lol

on July 13th, 2016 at 9:09 pm
Original Link

“You mean blue pill guys? Do you want me to quote 100 threads from r/TheRedPill alone about what TRP guys expect?”

I mean Red Pill guys. Unless you’re suggesting that none of the guys on TRP, in the Manosphere, MGTOW, MRA, PUA, etc have madonna/whore complexes and/or still categorize girls into sluts and good girls.

If you think putting the Red Pill in your mouth is the same as swallowing it, you might as well read through that Tag the Sponsors thread again to watch a bunch of red pill guys having trouble digesting what they’re seeing.

“I had pretty much the same perspective at 20 concerning women/pussy”

Because you were fortunate enough to receive social conditioning that other guys didn’t and future guys won’t. Your warnings are an alien language to a 20yo guy in 2016 lol I agree with them completely, but it’s not gonna stop this oncoming train.

on July 13th, 2016 at 9:39 pm
Original Link

“So Red Pill guys don’t believe in AWALT?”

They SHOULD. But like scray says:

“sure. they talk tough and blah blah fucking blah but then when CONFRONTED with the shit, you see all this butthurt”

I deal with reality not theory.

on July 13th, 2016 at 10:15 pm
Original Link

Meanwhile, while women are being taught to be Sugarbabies and Red Pill guys watch Nymphomaniac, and Blaximus rants about the good ol’ days, this is what kids are being programmed with before there’s any masculine influence in their lives till college (esp in single mother homes, and even in college they’ve become SJW beehives where the men better toe the line or face a kangaroo court firing/expulsion):

Oh god, 14:30.

If you don’t know who this slimy douchebag is, he’s the guy who wrote filmed edited etc Anita Sarkeesian’s series. The dude has a fascination with manipulating social trends via propaganda (no joke, he’s flat out admitted it in old footage of him from before he started all this shit) and is attempting to start up a series himself like Anita did (because she’s given him the boot lol she realized she doesn’t need him to get her victimbux anymore and now he’s on his own).

The series is going to “focus on masculinity” (aka eliminating it…what better way to be attractive if you’re a beta than conditioning other men to be MORE beta lol).

Anyway, witness the ULTIMATE in virtue signalling:

Fortunately this guy is about to discover a lesson in female privilege when he discovers that Anita’s frowny-face talking about female oppression got her overfunded a zillion times over but a cis white male talking about men is something no one will give any fucks about, even if it’s brainwashing men into being good FI soldiers.

This is why I say, like, I get it Blaximus, don’t value the pussy, man up, be a man, that’s awesome, you KNOW what that means ’cause you were taught those lessons by masculine influence in your life.

But boys in the next generation, like that kid who sent his savings to that ugly webcam girl wanting nothing in return? That kid and his kids (if he reproduces) will be growing up watching shows like Steven Universe.

When a kid growing up with that conditioning runs into a girl who’s been conditioned to be a Sugarbaby…well, the fight is gonna be a long one.

on July 14th, 2016 at 6:57 pm
Original Link

“What impact is Sarkeesian’s series going to have? It’s very obvious propaganda.”

To us. But take a tour around the rabbit hole of our current college campus culture, SJW shit, Feminism shit, BLM, etc these days and see how much influence “obvious propaganda” still has, and that’s on adult-aged intelligent people who can seek out counter-opinions etc VS programming little children who are being babysat by the TV.

“Why do you not believe that “social conditioning” will work on kids on one hand and then call out the very same social conditioning that you agree did work on Blax on the other?”

Because Blaximus didn’t have 24/7 FI-counter-conditioning shoved in his face and his masculine influences were allowed to be masculine influences and interact and condition him outside of just his dad. Blaximus probably had male teachers, his male friends were probably allowed to be masculine, women probably weren’t pushing a narrative on him the way they are now, etc etc

Times change. You can still provide the same amount of influence Blaximus’ dad would have, but EVERYTHING ELSE is running against you once they’re old enough to start making their own decisions and leave your direct care.

And like I say, technology HELPS women have access to higher value men, so there’s huge pushes toward it and once they’re using technology at all they’re going to run into the influences available with it.

Now if these chicks all make it to their 40s still married to these guys, cool, but that’s a helluva gamble in 2016.

“Feminism being a massive meta shit test, is looking to be put down.”

lol, I mean, I would love this if it happened. But anyone who thinks “Feminism” is going to be defeated anytime soon…like, it’s literally linked to “freedom for women”. The ONLY way to fight it would be those women deciding to go against it, which is happening (the Shoe0nHead Lauren Southern etc types), but on an incredibly small scale and those girls will hit the wall in 10 years just like Jennifer Anniston where Feminism suddenly seems like a really good idea.

I’ll give it a go and tag your name on it. VACQS is pretty much the same thing as A1-C1 except broken down into passively demonstrated value (V) and actively demonstrating value (A). But I think Mystery’s Q before C is better than C before Q in 2016 where the girls have EVERY guy seeking C before Q with them. In the past though, and in certain situations (like warm approaching at a private house party VS a cold approaching at a nightclub) the C then Q was probably fine. But in 2016 I say stick to MM’s structure…Mystery was figuring out how to game girls that think and act like they’re 10s (strippers and high-end clubs and minor celebs and shit), which is what most girls are like these days with social media etc

I actually think it’s funny how we’ve come full-circle back to a culture where MM is probably the best method for gaming (DHV then sit back and let them chase you and qualify them until they win you over) except that instead of EVERYONE knowing MM, NO ONE knows MM lol When The Game came out we thought EVERYONE was going to be learning MM and running it forever and it was the end of days…now 90% of the TRP forums and Manosphere haven’t even cracked the book open or watched any of Mystery’s seminar vids, meanwhile they’re banging average chicks and crying about inconsistency and not being able to get hotter girls or how to handle mixed/group sets etc lol

C’mon man, you know what he’s talking about, it’s like when you’re suckin a cock (nohomo) and you’re looking up at the guy’s pretty blue eyes (nohomo) and you’re like “oh man I hope he just jizzes all over my face” (nohomo), right gb_hill?

fucking lol

@scray @redlight
I just watched the trailers but goddamn why do they always have to use such ugly chicks as the main characters of these “girl going on a crazy sexual adventure” movies. I can’t subject myself to hours of watching this chick suck face lol

“I thought any advice I could offer a young man was universal and true. And I still believe that to an extent. but the individual will have to modify that advice multiple times, consistently to gain regular results”

This. I’m not discounting your advice, just saying that like, you gotta understand WHY your advice falls on deaf ears. It’s like you’re telling guys how to drive a car from the 1940s…there are things that are still applicable to driving today, but like, those cars aren’t even on the road anymore or available to guys while you had a garage full of them.

@Anonymous Reader
“Some of these men sound and look gay at first. Doesn’t bother me, I’ll talk to anyone – even intense nerd-girl computer types, heh – but it’s reallly weird to sit and listen to what I thought was 3 gay guys who turn out to be straight but just wimpy beyond belief.”

Yup. When I walk into a kiddie nightclub these days I legitimately can’t tell if I walked into a gay club or it’s gay night or what. I completely expected game to get harder as I got older, but men have been so pussified that just having any kind of masculine energy separates you from the boys in their peer groups. I expect to be able to bang <25yo poon for a loooong time 'cause like I say, it's not going to get BETTER. 80/20 to 90/10.

"No more ” Boys will be Boys “."

Saying boys will be boys is now assosciated with being a rape apologist.

"Who? The gay guy in statistics?"


"A few posts back Rollo linked to an article concerning how a large ( to me ) percentage of young men say that did not feel/see themselves as masculine. I am a believer now."

Like I say, the field shows all. Spend time in the field and you see this, especially in situations where these guys are SUPPOSED to be trying to fuck these girls. Like in an office environment it's probably a good idea to reign in the boners a bit…but you walk into a kiddie nightclub on a Saturday night with scantily clad horny girls running everywhere and there are groups of guys dancing on the stage and dancing on the stripper pole and they're STRAIGHT dudes but like, they've been FI conditioned to act like women and it's just like what the fuck happened over the last 10 years lol

"I often wonder if a part of this is hormonal in some fashion."

It's just what I've been saying. They have NO masculine influence in their lives and EVERYTHING in society is shaming the masculinity out of them (and if they can't they drug them up like you say). That's why they can't relate to how you were brought up, you had tons of influences that you aren't even aware of…even a strict male teacher in school chewing you out for not doing your homework or some shit. Now that guy would be fired cause everyone gets a participation award.

on July 15th, 2016 at 12:16 am
Original Link

They’re both so ugly to me that I legitimately didn’t even realize they were two separate women, I thought it was just that the second movie was filmed a few years later with the same actress lol WNB

@Culum Struan
“But the point being, it’s not just a question of applying male influences – it’s also handling the counter-influences”

That’s my point with Blaximus and why it’s different than now for most men. Not only is the good programming removed but endless 24/7 bad programming from all angles is being bombarded into their heads from an early age. How the fuck do you counter THAT consistently? We can’t all move to a farm and ban our kids from technology and keep them from having any friends with internet access or smartphones lol

@M Simon
That Misandry Bubble one is solid. No idea who the writer is but they sound like they’ve basically been reading what I’ve been saying for the past handful of years lol

And on that note, wrt the battle for future generations of men and why Sugar Daddy arrangement sites and VR porn will be a lot more appealing to men than, you know, approaching women, stolen from the RVF:

“misogyny hate crime training which includes “behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman”.”

“She added: “Unwanted physical or verbal contact or engagement is defined as exactly that and so can cover wolf-whistling and other similar types of contact.”

…UNWANTED VERBAL ENGAGEMENT. Said hello to a girl who didn’t think you were attractive? HATE CRIME.

“Understanding this as a hate crime will help people to see the seriousness of these incidents and hopefully encourage more women to come forward and report offences.”

Oh I have NO doubt that it will.

Chicks in charge of this:

Because of course they are.

Props to Thoroughbred on RVF who dickslapped everyone:

“Very well said, but the frog has been boiling in this water for quite a while, not in secret, the writing has been on the wall, clear as day. The point of no return was some time ago.

This was pointed out by several here when RSD tried to hold seminars in 2014. But most of this forums membership, many senior members included, wanted to throw in with SJW enforcers on that one. Now it’s all “can’t talk to chicks on the street.” Surprise.”

He’ll probably be banned for clearly being an RSD shill soon lol

Still waiting for RSD to go bankrupt Roosh and Cernovich and the rest of the morons there lol…any day now right? They’ll be banned from every nightclub in the world with mobs chasing them and all their students will bail on them because they didn’t go on the assault in the media and instead just let things die down then did one CNN interview (a conscious strategy recommended in the book Glass Jaw) that got them off the hook while Julien used that worldwide hate to promote his next products and currently uses it to get laid by actively telling girls to google his name on their phone in set boosting his badboy value to them…I’m sure Tyler is sitting in his mansion filling out bankruptcy forms as I type, soon as he finishes a round of golf:

on July 15th, 2016 at 6:27 am
Original Link

Save me from mod again plz!

“Still stuck on the A2 A3 transition and what actually A3 is in a real life situation though.”

A2 = her giving you ioi’s (Female to Male interest)
A3 = you giving her a statement of interest (basically a very clear ioi showing interest in her, Male to Female interest)

But to go FROM A2 to A3, you want to QUALIFY her, otherwise it looks like you give your interest to ANY girl who gives you interest and she assumes it must just be because of her looks which doesn’t make her feel like a special snowflake or like she’s earned you or like you were hard to get (we don’t value a prize we don’t have to work for).

This is the key normal guys miss that makes them look low-value, they’re running around NOT doing A1 (because they may HAVE value but don’t know how to DEMONSTRATE it well (DHV, A1)), so they don’t get much A2 (her interest in them), and they have NO IDEA what the fuck qualifying is (“you want me to play hard to get when a girl is showing ANY sign of interest in me?? Are you CRAZY?!?!?”), so they just go right for seeking rapport/comfort and come off extremely low value to the girl.

Qualifying would look something like she gives you a few ioi’s and you go “what do you do for a living?” with a skeptical look and she goes “I’m in law school” and you go “ohhh, a SMART girl…I LOVE smart girls.” So she feels like “my SMARTness won him over!!”

But then you do it again with like “but wait, you might be TOO smart…you’re not one of those nerdy girls who just stays in and studies all the time, are you? I need a girl who can come out and have fun with me when she isn’t nose-deep in a book at the library.” So it’s kind of like a challenge, you’re challenging her to impress you and trying to put her in roles that she tries to correct you on and “qualify herself” to you, like “nooo!! I mean, I have to study a lot during exams but not right now!” and NOW you can drop a nice big Statement of Interest/Intent showing interest in her (like “a smart girl who knows how to party, you and I are going to be trouble together” seeding a future projection that you’ll be hanging out together in the future) because she’s earned that interest from you, with something that isn’t her looks.

And if she says “I AM I’m such a nerd I never go out!” you DISqualify her and do a playful backturn or exaggeratedly pretend she’s losing you and throw another qualifier at her like “tsk tsk, all work and no play Sally. You must be a Netflix & chill girl, what’s your favorite show.” and then whatever she says go “Oh I love that show we’ll have to watch it sometime” (seeding a reason to isolate later).

Make sense?

And even when you DO show interest in her, you can couch it in more “you won me over” stuff like “you know, it’s weird…when we first met I thought you were just another ditzy bar bimbo ’cause of your looks. I was like oh god this girl is going to be so boring to talk to…but it turns out you’re actually kind of interesting.” (Statement of Interest/Intent, which is also a Pull), then “…but don’t think you’re getting in my pants tonight.” or “…but I’m not sure you aren’t crazy yet” (Pushes, to push/pull her emotions and spike them)

Consider how much more the girl in this example is having to work to get/keep my interest compared to the girl in the average guy example where he’s out just throwing A3 around to any girl who lets him talk to her for more than 5 seconds or lets him buy her a drink lol

“Hopefully also to parents.”

Red Pill parents who don’t want their kids to learn retarded propaganda shit. But the vast majority of parents are Blue Pill/FI and/or single moms fully invested in the FI. They WANT their kids to learn this propaganda. They’re not seeing Sarkeesian talk about sexism in gaming and going “don’t worry honey, that’s just lies, ignore her and remember we don’t live in a rape culture and women get paid as much money as men”.

“Wasn’t Sarkeesian damaged by Gamergate?”

Fuuuuuuuuuck no lol Not even remotely. She just pulled another $200,000 for another feminist propaganda series on top of all the money she’s raked in doing speaking appearances and shit.

She literally went to the fucking UN to cry about cyber-harrassment (that she purposely pokes beehives to get so she can rack up more victimbux donations):

And is on the Twitter trust & safety council where she can basically censor anything she wants for any reason…she literally controls one of the biggest formerly free speech platforms on the internet.

“Didn’t even Colbert do a takedown of Sarkeesian?”

Doesn’t matter, the vast majority of people just Listen & Believe her shit. You’re giving the general population waaaay too much credit lol

“So how much cred does she have? How influential is her shit going to be? Who else is pushing to make boys wear dresses?”

Time to do some research yo lol Shit is all over the place.

“for beta bux, sure…alphas aren’t on Tinder, tho…”

Girls don’t know that. They see a jacked guy in a profile pic who says he’s a doctor and they think “That’s the dream alpha lover/provider!!!!!” They don’t know he’s a chode till they go out with him. Then when they ditch him they go back on Tinder and see another one and think “Maybe THIS one!!!!” Rinse/repeat until they’re 30+

“the pattern will be that high SMV women will use new tech, then alphas will follow, then low SMV women and betas will follow and high SMV women will leave and then alphas will leave”

Ya but I don’t know what your point is. There’s a window where high SMV women have access to high SMV alphas. So like I said, technology HELPS women have access to higher value men.

And a lot of those guys will stick around to fuck the sub-par chicks just because it’s convenient/easy, just like at any nightclub you’ll see jacked rich dudes taking home uggos if they can if it’s between that or going home alone lol

@red side
“Tech/Gaming Journalist wants “nerds” to go back to being scared and reclusive, because someone spoke to her about Pokemon Go”

Whew!! Good thing she shamed them…nerds almost started thinking they had the right to talk to a woman. Didn’t they know that’s illegal in the UK? My god, what makes them think they have the right to even GAZE upon an oppressed class??

It’s gonna get worse out there before it gets better lol 80/20 becoming 90/10.

on July 15th, 2016 at 10:14 am
Original Link

“So everything was running against all of us as well”

lol sure thing. I guess I didn’t realize you had smartphones in your pocket back then, you should’ve told Steve Jobs and Zuckerberg they were wasting their time, you already had live streaming social media 24/7 in your pockets. I was under the impression that Blaximus had tough older male influences in his life but apparently he had a bunch of sissies raising him like boys today. So is this UK article about it being illegal to talk to women just a reprint article from 1960 where it was made illegal to talk to women?

lol it’s okay to just admit when you’re wrong dude. Saying you had the same influences back then that we kids have these days is such a ridiculous notion that I won’t even waste time debating it. You’re either extremely naive or just like to argue lol

“it will be the result of the average beta guy just pushing back 10% on his daily shit testing”

That’ll make women not want equal pay or the right to vote or bodily autonomy anymore and want to increase rape culture hey? (because those things are what Feminism has attached itself to, so removing Feminism is like giving those things up, to Feminists)

I admire your optimism at least lol

“The field is not just a kiddie nightclub though… this is confirmation bias…”

Kiddie nightclubs are people around their prime horny stage of life, running on raw emotion.

“the AFC/beta HATES going to clubs… the majority simply do not do it…”

So you’re saying THOSE guys are walking around like Clint Eastwood dickslapping girls? Do you even re-read what you write? Your logic is all over the place and contradictory.

“Now if you went to sports bars, dive bars, back yard hang outs etc etc you will find a TON of guys…”

Yes, a ton of guys who are chodey as fuck.

“(one of the reasons PUA’s do NOT go to these places… sausage fest)”

We go to all sorts of places.

“and you will find a lot of these guys are not working in HR or tech or some paper pushing job…”

I’ve known plenty of blue collar working class beta chodes.

“they are not going to cover themselves in body glitter and dance to EDM…”

You’d be surprised lol I’ve met a bunch of guys doing blue collar physical labor that do that shit.

“Are paper pushing office workers more effete than guys in trades (plumber, contractor, mechanic, etc)… yeah.”

Look at you, you’ve created your own little Madonna/whore complex for men lol If you think trades guys are all manly men and office guys are all metro glittery chodes, you need to leave the house more and interact with a bigger variety of people.

I’m not saying all of them are like this, but a shitload more than in Blaximus’ day. All you have to do is open your eyes.

“still alive and well in HS athletics, in the frat houses, with the gym bros, with the outdoors guys…”

Again you’d be surprised. Roll with those guys and you’ll find a ton of chodey effeminate betas.

“Do you think it will be put into practice? No.”

lol did you read that news story? The girl who got that law instigated? Maybe you should re-read it closer.

“Show me some stories of dozens of guys who are prosecuted…”

Well the law is new, so give it some time. But you’re right, I’m sure women won’t play the victim card for attention when a man makes them feel uncomfortable. That NEVER happens.

Women have gone to a great deal of effort to make sure there are as few “men only” spaces as possible these days. I’m not saying they’re ALL gone, I’m saying it’s worse for the upcoming generation than when you were their age. Sorry grandpa, you’re out of touch.

I don’t know what it is with old guys refusing to accept that the world could have changed in the last 40 years. “Well it didn’t change fast when I was growing up”, ya you didn’t go from rotary phones on your wall to having super-computers connected to the entire world in your pocket either. Technology advances exponentially fast and is fucking shit up at breakneck speeds. You either get that or you don’t.

“There’s a short-term window where high SMV women have access to high SMV alphas. Technology helps low-SMV women have some access to higher value men. Technology helps low-SMV women get attention from men, generally.”

That’s what I said from the start. Technology helps women have access to higher value men.

“Here’s my point. MM works on cold approach even when new technology comes out, so why should I learn new technology to get laid?”

I don’t know, I don’t care, I never said you should lol

on July 15th, 2016 at 12:06 pm
Original Link

I’mma just leave this here:

Stick through the cringey poem for the interview part at 55 seconds in where he explains how he’s such a woke bae thanks to the education system that taught him to be ashamed of himself for existing so he can simultaneously shame other men and spread the wokeness to all the baes. The reward? CNN appearance and pats on the back from all of society including women. They won’t fuck him but they’ll string him along till they hit the wall. And he’ll be happy with that because he’s already an excellent little FI solider and will be working on influencing his friends to become woke baes too.

on July 16th, 2016 at 6:45 am
Original Link

“but I highly doubt they will be able to resist the temptation to push it to the point where the openly acknowledge that providers make their skin crawl, but still expect them to pay up”

Chick sent me screencaps of her convo with her friend last night where they’re lol’ing at calling their orbiters various nicknames based on the things they do for them (one guy’s nickname is “Free Dinner” ’cause that’s all he’s used for, another is “Taxi” ’cause he drives her around etc These guys have expensive cars and shit) and lol’ing about how pissed guys would be if they knew their nicknames. You can tell it’s tempting to them to do it just to see if the guys would put up with it lol because there will be 10 more guys lined up to replace them in 2016 if they DO get pissed off but odds are those guys are thirsty enough to take it.

“Only when it first comes out, generally”

Holy fuck dude. If you have a lottery ticket for a million dollar lottery for a year, you OBJECTIVELY HAVE A BETTER CHANCE AT OWNING A MILLION DOLLARS IN YOUR LIFETIME THAN IF YOU DON’T HAVE A LOTTERY TICKET. wtf is so hard for you to grasp about what I’m saying? Girls having access to technology that lets millionaire celebrities interact with them gives them a better chance at finding the ultimate Hypergamous best option over the Amish girl living in a town with a handful of average/low-SMV dudes.

@Blaximus @Sentient
“All of This Right Here. I’ve had to do a bunch of reflection. YaReally is 100% correct.”

Fucking THANK you lol Talking to Sentient is like talking to a brick wall. No one’s saying you guys didn’t have ANY influences, but like, look at this shit, did you guys have to deal with THIS?:

Mattress Girl, who lied about her rape, was given awards and went to the UN and shit and is STILL viewed as a victim to tons of people. You guys didn’t have to deal with this to this exctent, you got to fuck up in relative privacy as you learned the ins and outs of how to be a man. Meanwhile how many chodey beta AFCs with no male influence and increasing less and less safe spaces to express whatever masculine energy they DO, will decide they want to risk this kind of world-wide mass-media shaming shit?

Ya, I get it, some guys play lacross and are manly when they’re in the middle of a lacross game. Awesome. No one said there weren’t any guys left doing that shit. All I’ve said from the start (since Sentient has problems understanding nuance) is that there are less and less OF those men because the FI is making it hazardous and shameful to BE those men.

“It took Ya months to get me to open my eyes – looking backward. Lol. Thanks dude.”

lol you’re a smart dude, I knew you’d figure out what I was saying sooner or later. It’s hard to see this stuff when so much of it is unconscious competence as a Natural, whereas a guy like me had to learn to see all this stuff to explain why you and I grew up on such different paths…for guys like me to figure out how to get a nut we had to determine exactly why we didn’t become you so we could counter-correct those things.

“The phys. ed. teachers were ALL no nonsense dudes that did not hesitate to gaffle you up or toss a basketball at your head to get you’re attention.”

That guy would be recorded on a cell phone cam then fired and name-slandered world-wide to never work in the education industry again these days, if he would even have the balls to DO that now…and that’s IF the school even has gym classes and shit now. I had male teachers that we were GENUINELY terrified of, like we were SCARED to fuck around in class ’cause they carried such masculine authority weight and we knew they could lose their temper or something and crush us little kiddies. Now? Those guys don’t work, or their hands are too tied to be any kind of authority figures lest they give the kids PTSD and send an angry mom mob after the school along with social media slander about the teachers bullying their poor angelic kids, and the kids are starting to figure that out and that they don’t have any boundaries ’cause they don’t have dads or male influence at home and aren’t allowed to hang around older men (gotta watch out for them pedophiles and all) and their moms sure as shit aren’t laying down the law when they hand them an iPad to babysit them so they can go on another Tinder date to find a guy who’ll pay for their mistakes.

Are there still some male teachers? Sure. But compared to the 60s? Come on. Even my old grade school when I look at its current teacher roster, 100% females in the classrooms now. Principals are male but kids rarely interact with them compared to teachers.

“Oh, and in my formative elementary years, corporal punishment was allowed. I was able to avoid much of it, but I did have to don boxing gloves in the principal’s office once for fighting.”

Good lord the media storm that would spring up from that. But no, Sentient’s right, it’s TOTALLY the same.

“Growing up during the civil rights/MLK/Black Panther era was much different re: social pressures of the day. Feminism was not accepted or looked at kindly at all.”

Sorry man, you’re imagining it. Sentient says Feminism was as widely embraced and influential as it is now and your TV that went till 1am was spouting the exact same FI influence and support that kids are getting now. James Bond and Harrison Ford didn’t ACTUALLY treat women like alpha males, they acted exactly like Michael Cera and Seth Rogan. THINGS NEVER CHANGE.

“Bra burnings and the like were only things I saw on the nightly news. That stuff may as well have been happening at Disney Land. Lol.”

Meanwhile in 2016:

Asian chick at the end tries to go against the crowd’s narrative talking some common sense. Till the black chick shuts THAT nonsense down and the crowd laughs her silly ideas out of there. And that’s a GIRL…who’s ASIAN…she’s supposed to be protected as FUCK by their standards. Imagine a cis-het-white-MALE trying to take a stand like that?? lol

Turn your speakers down, this chick rockets from 0 to 100 in a split-second when this foolish white male dares to have some disagree and have some kind of voice. He and his wife (both professors involved in this, he was defending his wife’s opinion) resigned after this. Whoops, guess you shouldn’t have tried speaking out, stupid male.

“I do recall the men exercising much more control over the chicks growing up.”

No brah, you just gotta to go to Sentient’s backyard BBQs where all the guys are telling their wives to make them sandwiches and smacking them around when they don’t listen, it’s just masculine alpha males laying down the law everywhere.

“but I was advised not to pay attention to them”

Meanwhile we have single moms, female teachers, women in general encouraging boys to listen to them and shaming/punishing them for NOT listening to them. And MEN jumping on board with it too. Men in your day probably laughed at Feminism shit, now half the problem is men brainwashed by the FI trying to brainwash and attack other men to make them join the herd.

“The thing was, it wasn’t just him alone. The social circle of males all backed each other up.”

Meanwhile these days any guy but your closest buds is likely to throw you under the bus if it means his thirsty ass gets a chance at poon lol Every other guy that gets punished for being a misogynist makes him look more virtuous.

“Even the neighbor guys would not hesitate to *check* a woman in public.”

Now they’d be on cell phone cameras, with white knights jumping in to pummel him, his name and photo spread worldwide to live on the internet forever as anonymous internet white knights doxx him so everyone can start a twitter campaign sending him thousands of death threats, threatening his family, revealing his bank account numbers and passwords, calling his work up to get him fired for abusing women applying pressure to that company’s public reputation if they don’t fire him etc etc etc, no fucks given.

TOTALLY what you guys worried about back then when you raised your voice with your girlfriend in public, right?

“YaReally is absolutely correct, in that I have NEVER *had* to deal with smartphones and Tinder and 10,000 guys liking a pic of my woman on facefuck or whatever.”

I think Sentient just likes disagreeing with me. It’s just a shame he keeps picking issues I’m right on to do it with lol

“This shit was going on all over the country”

And it was laughed at. It’s not laughed at now, it’s the majority opinion by default now, and promoted and shoved down kids throats. That poem kid I linked has a fucking gender equality class in his grade school where he learned how shameful it is to be a male.

“[hint – involves walking in on a frat bro pounding out his chaste to him dream girl]”

How many times do I have to say “I’m not saying all guys are like this now, but a ton more than in the past” before you’re able to comprehend the difference between “lots” and “all”?

“YOU were advised by YOUR parents and YOUR circle to avoid this shit… Which makes my point that YOU can fight back the encroachments within YOUR environment”

If I hadn’t used my URL limit I’d put a facepalm image right here. I’ve never said you can’t influence them when they’re living under your roof. I’m talking about when you let them go into the wild and interact with other human beings in 2016. You can’t control who they hang out with or what technology they use when they’re 30 living across the country from you. You can TRY to still influence them, but ALL THE REST OF SOCIETY is working against it compared to Blax’s days where even today he probably has a bunch of strong red pill males around him from back then. That’s my point.

“Now to emo faggot boy… I will tell you something… let me put a lacrosse stick in his hand or a hockey stick and get him in with 20 other boys and get him going… and when he is knocked on his ass, and maybe tastes some of his own blood a choice will be made – the eternal choice of men – will he lie there and piss and moan or will he narrow his eyes, shake himself up and tap into his Ur-male spirit? You know the same way all of our ancestors did for so long…?”

This is a wonderful LARPing story you’ve written. Better hope they don’t end up like the Duke Lacross team.

“and then they rebel against it…”

hahaha yes, that’s what’s happening out there. All these chodey guys we’re surrounded by are totally rebelling against it. I want to live in your fantasy world.

on July 16th, 2016 at 6:45 am
Original Link

Post in mod, plz save me Rollo!

on July 16th, 2016 at 9:26 am
Original Link

“I follow the rule: don’t eat where I shit. I can get pussy elsewhere (hey, it’s even at home).”

If another part of your rule is “I like my job and would like to keep it” then the answer to all your situations is “do nothing” and “avoid being alone with any of them” and “act like a chode as much as possible when you interact with them to try to turn them off and avoid triggering attraction”.

@Blaximus @Sentient
“Honestly, if you look at my social circle(s) and friends and family, we are anachronistic today. I used to just chalk it up to getting older, but there’s something else there. There is a very strong disconnect with past norms, and it is getting wider every generation. I fight against what’s going on, but it’s not too much of a fight because I don’t believe in what’s happening at a root level. It appears to me like fighting back against a gang of cartoon villains. But millions and millions of men/boys are being bombarded with anti-male bullshit everywhere. It seems to be wearing a lot of them down. What I do in my house can’t help any of them.”

This is my point. It’s this surreal fantasy world from your perspective, but to kids growing up who don’t have a Sentient to lock them in a basement with no access to other human beings or technology (I put this exaggeration here so you could focus on this to ignore having to address all my other points so you don’t have to risk admitting you’re wrong, Sentient), this is the world these kids are being raised in and it’s INSIDE their households or their friends’ households or their school/work/etc.

“I have nephews that this hasn’t happened to, but I take little comfort in that.”

When they hit 21+ and go out into the real world where they don’t have male influences like you to keep them on track, while the rest of the world does its thing, who the fuck knows what’ll happen to them.

“I don’t mean to be such a downer”

lol and I’m not trying to be a downer. But digging our heads in the sands about the realities of what society is like for the majority of kids these days doesn’t help the upcoming generations much. I prefer to address it and share knowledge and try to figure out solutions so we don’t have so many Sugar Daddies signing up for a SB and handing their savings to ugly webcam girls in return for a thankyou as they return to their VR porn to avoid being lambasted across social media for accidentally giving an insecure victim-complex girl who has the entire backing of society, PTSD for daring to ask her if she’s seen any Pokemon nearby.

“You get that if you are alpha/red pill aware the current environment is favorable right? Pussy is a zero sum game. The more betas there are the better for alphas.”

Some of us give a shit about other men and future boys lol Things are GREAT for me, I’m cleaning up out there given my chodey college/highschool boy competition. But I’ll be dead one day and I’d like future YaReally’s to have the same success I’ve had.

“Were it me, I would move to a place with less (potential) drama. That’s the nice thing about engineering in an all-male group – no drama.”

This lol I have a buddy who turned down a higher paying job in an office full of women to keep his current job where he works under an old-ass alpha dude because he knows while he could charm that entire office of estrogen, the SECOND one of them was unhaaaaappy or he miscalibrated, shit would hit the fan and he’d be fucked. With his current boss he doesn’t have to watch his back 24/7.

“Granted the laws of physics prevent two dicks from occupying exactly the same space in one vagina at one moment”

Even that’s debatable…I’ve seen some shit on PornHub lemme tell ya. lol

“but if we are both fucking a woman how is your turn my loss?”

This, though. I’m not the “pass her around to my friends and bang their girls and run a train on a girl” etc type but I know dudes who are. It’s not like girls are sticking to one guy when a group of dudes with decent game are all high-value to her and party together and all triggering her Hypergamy around the same level.

@redlight @Tom
“Great examples! And yes, this kind of activity is going on all the time in workplaces, for those who have eyes to see.”

That is, unfortunately, why so many guys get caught in that “fuck your co-workers” trap. Which was totally fine back in the 50s or whatever, even up till the Internet and social media probably…if a scandal broke out it only got so far so fast and you weren’t at risk of HR obliterating your soul for being a rapist when the girl regrets fucking you after getting slut-shamed etc

But NOW? In 2016? I mean shit, I don’t even use my real name or job in the field and avoid being in photos, just to be safe. I have girls who’ve known me for YEARS who LOVE me but who STILL don’t actually know what my name or real job are lol

“Her (female) admin assistant comes in and they started picking out hot boy applicants for her to interview. The females and the nerds were being parcelled out to various underlings.”

A buddy of mine when he was job-hunting experimented with doing sexual laser eye-contact bedroom voice tonality and using preselection (chatting with the secretary or girls in the waiting area as the interviewer came out) etc with female interviewers and he lol’ed at how dramatic the difference was when he was DHV’ing like that and when he wasn’t. He’s 100% convinced that women literally just hire based on how much attraction you trigger with zero fucks given about your actual qualifications.

“It just never occurred to her that she wasn’t some sort of financial genius”

This is the funniest part to me lol Just like they all think they’re just amazing at their careers and amazing singers and HILARIOUS comedic geniuses etc It’s like oh, honey, wait till you’re 35.

“They really are “sitting on a fortune”.”

One of my fav Tyler rants:

on July 17th, 2016 at 1:42 pm
Original Link

“So if he acted chode he wouldn’t get the job?”

In his view ya, or he’d get put somewhere shitty and out of sight VS given a better position.

“How about when the women are handing out the choice work assignments, best to be a chode? How about promotions, best to be a chode?”

No idea on the rest of this, I’d imagine there’s a lot of calibration involved depending on who your superiors/co-workers are and what your goals are.

@hank holiday
““Well. . .I robbed a few banks. Stabbed a couple of people. Does that count?”
“Did you get caught?”
“Then we’re all good.””

lol solid. I can’t wait till this is your convos with girls you view as 8s and 9s someday lol Gonna slay it.

“Yesterday I heard the heart wrenching story of Amy Schumer”s first sex from 17 years ago. She was freaked out. She told the guy ” no “, but he didn’t stop. Righteous indignation flowed freely.”

Only ever in one direction though lol:

“I mean, why can’t they just say ” GTFO of my face ” and let it go at that? Why can’t they just keep their clothes on and stay out of my bed or couch, and not allow me to get on top of them naked before having a change(?) of heart??”

WOW. You misogynistic rape-apologist victim-blamer. So it’s the GIRL’S fault for not pushing away a bigger stronger man who has her fearing for her life as he advances on her and she DESERVED to get raped??? I’m slandering your place of employment on social media along with all my SJW friends until they fire you for being a rape-supporter. You probably went to that Roosh Rape Rally.

Welcome to 2016!

“Shit happens I guess. Lol, this shit is ridiculous.”

It IS ridiculous. But you can laugh at it from afar, you’re on the other side of the fence at the tail end of a life well lived. Right now a 5yo boy is being scolded by his female kindergarten teacher for being too loud and talking to a little girl without her consent. He has to grow up in this world and try to navigate it without guys like you around him to help him.

“it’s been useful in creating a post-divorce lifestyle as an “older guy” –which is a knowledge base that is lacking in the manosphere considering its typical age-group audience.”

Agreed. The gap is generally that guys who are Red Pill aware enough either end up with successful enough marriages to not have much experience in post-divorce lifestyles (how do you spin plates when you got a kid and work 2 jobs for child support and have a crazy ex-wife dragging you to family court etc), or the guys who are Red Pill don’t get married in the first place so they don’t end up with much experience in a post-divorce lifestyle either.

But more and more guys are ending up single at 40+ back on the scene with no idea what to do because they tried the Blue Pill plan for 10+ years. That’s why I wanted to see scribblerg get his shit together with this stuff, he’s an example of being able to recover later in life although he had experience as a Natural growing up to fall back on.

For real though, we’re gonna see a ton more divorced guys hitting up our communities over the next 5-10 years. Attraction is attraction, and PUA techniques work because they’re based on core concepts, but 40+yo newly divorced guys are going to be intimidated hitting up bars being 10+ years older than the girls there. No easy way to get a handle on it though, they need to get out there and gather reference experiences.

On the plus side with the amount of old-ass lonely chicks on the rise and older dudes getting divorced, there’ll be plenty more old people cougar bars popping up lol Maybe start learning to socialize/flirt in those primarily till the guy gets enough confidence with it to take it to the kiddie bars or daygame and gradually transition to a better selection of poon.

“You’re really the one being antogonistic toward a few of us.”

You say that every time I post. What are you offended by THIS time lol I can’t even remember writing anything to you for you to take offense at…usually this much drama at least comes with a blowjob.

“Someone like me or Sentient are, for sure idealistic about the next generation of young men and women. We have skin in the game (our children) and we aren’t nihilistic about their fortunes.”

Sometimes reality is scary or bleak, regardless of what you wish it was like. Dunno what to tell you. I’m just reporting what’s happening out there so men (and your boys and girls) can be better prepared.

“With effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible,”

I’ve never said it’s impossible. It’s just REALLY fucking hard and I don’t think a lot of you guys realize how hard it is so I’m informing you of the VAST pressures they have that you guys didn’t have. Blax and scrib and others have all backed me up on the changes out there.

“while at the same time they believe that people are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve those fantastic results.”

I agree with this lol it’s part of the problem.

“When you start to whine, that is your bottoms down approach that doesn’t actually resonate with me.”

Pointing out realities is not whining. And ok, don’t resonate with it, I don’t care lol Some people probably refused to believe the earth was round too.

“Your whining about how women are”

You mean my pointing out the realities of how women today act and how Solipsism/Hypergamy/emotion rule them and how, when they leave your care, they will be BOMBARDED with negative influence by society. Again pointing out reality is not whining. What you’re doing is whining.

“and how guys don’t just get about how 25 y.o women suck”

They don’t suck, they’re just responding in a predictable way to influences in society based on how their biology works. I love women, but to a guy who doesn’t understand that shit the stuff happening out there can seem like “women suck”.

“is merely you Virtue Signalling (Virtue signalling is the expression or promotion of viewpoints that are especially valued within a social group like the Manosphere, especially when this is done primarily to enhance the social standing of the speaker).”

No idea wtf you’re talking about. Why is it always the guys who are the most concerned with how other people view them are the ones that assume I care. If I cared about being valued I would kiss all your asses instead of keep bringing up controversial points from the field.

“You can choose your lifestyle. You can pursue girls that are the age of Sentient’s an my daughter and then complain that society is corrupting guys agency in dealing with them”

Again pointing out realities is not complaining.

“When we are actually advocating for our daughters agency. And for their sexual strategy. And for family agency and kinship altruism. I have no doubt that my daughter will procreate one day. When she does, that lineage will proceed with grace.”

It’s weird how we all know AWALT, but all of our daughters and mothers were NAWALTS.

“Don’t lecture to me or Sentient that we have no agency in that matter”

Don’t tell me what to do when you don’t accurately read what I write. I never said you had no agency, I stated MULTIPLE TIMES repeatedly that you can have an influence in their lives but that once they go off into the world on their own, it’s harder to keep that influence because of social pressures.

“Blaximus and his raising his daughters–he does have patriarchal control in the new world.) I have patriarchal influence over my son, whether hands off or hands on.”

If you die tomorrow he’ll have the social conditioning you were able to program into him but from there it’s left to just hoping he can resist all the social pressure that tells him to ignore your teaching.

“You can’t predict the future trends of society”

Red Pill community has done a pretty fuckin good job of it so far. You want to cling to this fantasy belief that we’ll just wake up tomorrow and everything will be different. But like I said in my original post: why WOULD it change instead of continue the trend? Because you’re optimistic? lol

“I won’t settle for nihilism or seek a completion in life.”

So don’t, I don’t care what you do lol I just report what’s happening out there.

“Go right ahead and settle for that yourself if that is your bent. Good luck with that.”

Okay? I have no idea what your rant is about man.

“What you can do is stick to teaching PUA game in the manosphere, rather than mocking guys like Sentient or Redlight that have agency in society.”

I’ll mock them as long as they keep making inaccurate statements that don’t hold up infield. Correct information over getting along. Why are you advocating for Feels > Reals?

“What any man can do is come to acceptance of the rapid pace of social change, accept the decline in the patriarchy and the social convention of misandry, and realize that globalism and myths (fictions) and social conventions will persist. And then adapt. As you do in PUA.”

This is what I’m trying to get people to do. But I have Sentient up my ass trying to tell everyone “Guys guys ignore YaReally, there’s no rapid pace of social change, nothing is different, everything is the same, nothing to see here, just keep your heads in the sand and think happy thoughts” Hard to get anyone to adapt when you want to censor reality.

“The statement that Sentient, Blax or I cannot influence our tribe is a myth.”

THEN IT’S A GOOD THING I NEVER SAID YOU COULDN’T. Seriously, next time you get your panties in a twist wanting to write another rant to me, re-read my posts a few times and really actually listen to what I’m saying and look for things where, you know, I say the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you’re up in arms about.

“Your sub-communication that Sentient is an ignorant Patriarch and old school and out of touch with reality in a new world reality is, well: Silly.”

His assertion that nothing has changed is silly. Blax and scrib are backing me up on it. Anyone with fucking EYES can back me up on it. The fact that this community even EXISTS is because shit has changed and escalated to where we NEED this community.

“You have done heroically good work in the Manosphere for years. Don’t be un-Heroic.”

Don’t try to censor me with shaming language. That’s Feminist playbook shit.

“Pokemon Go is going to be the next big thing.”

Shit’s unreal. They’re chasing imaginary toy monsters intended for 5 year olds. A lot of these people are adults, even in their 30s. Some of these people are my PEERS. But ya, it’s all just Mad Men alpha males out there these days, nothing has changed at all, sure the generations before us were probably knee-deep in a swamp in Nam watching their friends get blown up while they dodge gunfire, but chasing Pokemon is TOTALLY building the same time of masculinity in men these days right Sentient? lol

“and belittling it won’t stop its import.”

So you’re cool with pointing out the impact Pokemon has on society, because you play it. But when I point out other things that have an impact, I’m a big asshole.

“don’t care too after my other experiences here.”

You mean the experiences where we told you this would happen and you lol’ed and told us to kiss your ass because you had this shit on lockdown?

“One of the things that I didn’t make clear in my last post or in any of the others is the nature of the SD-SB relationship”

You don’t have to. We ALL know exactly what the nature is. You’re not some special snowflake.

“So the thing is … SD-SB relationships can approach a “normal” relationship”

Ya that’s what every dude who falls in love with a stripper who strings him along for cash says too. “You guys don’t understand, sure I pay her but she really DOES care about me” lol

“Needless to say, after 10 months of being very happy with a nice, cute, sexy sweetie, who I got along great with … its now over. Done and there ain’t no going back.”

Just pay her to put on a new personality for you. That’s the whole point, right? That she’ll do whatever you want because you’re this badass boss throwing money around and we’re all idiots, after all.

“I’m not going to pay someone who disrespects me.”

You were always paying someone who disrespects you. She’s only just started doing it directly to your FACE now.

“And told her so … and if she ain’t being paid … well, you know how women value access to their pussy. And as a woman ages that price gets higher and higher. And If I ain’t paying … she ain’t putting out.”

I like how you’ve reframed this like you’ve NEXT’ed her when she’s NEXT’ed you lol She probably has another dude or another sugar daddy lined up and picked a fight to get you to end shit so she could avoid accountability.

“Its not easy.”

It’ll be a lot easier when you take your head out of your ass and start listening to what we’re telling you instead of coming in swinging your dick like you have it all figured out. I’m only being an asshole to you because 1) you probably won’t even read this and 2) you were acting like a douchebag. Aside from that though, I legitimately feel bad for you. Welcome to the Red Pill, you’re just like all the threads on the TRP reddit forums titled “ok guys I’ve officially confirmed it: AWALT!!” when they get their ass handed to them by a girl.

“As long as I got money to spend … there are girls who will put out.”

…or you could just stick to what you’re doing and disregard learning anything from this. fucking lol

“Cut her off and moved on. Would never have been able to do that before.”

Props for THIS part at least.

“But in the end, settling for negotiated desire was to sell myself short. Do I believe I’m a prize, or not?”

This. This is why I want Culum off those SD sites lol How can you ever see your own value when you’re meeting women through a system designed for them to view you from the start as a provider who probably has to pay for female attention.

“It’s so delicious to be playing the game at all. Just turned 54, he he.”

Glad you’ve recovered. Comparing your posts about gaming girls now to a year ago is like night and day.

“Don’t think many girls are using Pokemon Go with the intention of meeting new people.”

Doesn’t really matter what their intentions are if a guy sparks attraction lol I don’t do the Pokemon thing though so I have no idea what the girls playing it are like, but a lot of the <30yo crowd did grow up with Pokemon so who knows.

"I’m with Ya. I work with a lot of millennials and they live in a world changing at a breakneck pace with little time or space for reflection."

I was purposely staying on top of this shit because it's relevant to sarging and it's even surprised ME how fast shit has changed. Like compared to the early 2000s when I started learning game and no one really used cell phones and dating sites hadn't made their mass impact yet.

With regards to reflection, and neuroplasticity we can literally stream new dopamine-rewarding content/stimulus directly into our brains 24/7 now. I can throw on a YouTube playlist in the background of my day/night and literally never have a moment alone with my thoughts, even on the toilet I can whip out my smartphone and see what's up on TRM or consume some new content.

I mean now people aren't even thinking on their WALKS taking in a nice sunny quiet day and relaxing, now they're looking down at their phone incase they spot a Pokemon. These things have consequences lol Like I say, these boys in the kiddie bars are socially stunted with regards to interacting with women with sexual intent because they've grown up hiding behind the safety of txting. You don't even have to ask a stranger for directions now, just whip out your Google Maps. Ask a stranger for recommendations on something like where to eat? Nahhh, just check YELP. CALL someone on the phone and TALK to them? Did someone DIE?? Because no one talks on the phone now unless it's a vital emergency. WATCH and EXPERIENCE a concert or event happening in front of you? Sure, through the lens of your smartphone as you record it to post for millions of people on YouTube regardless of whether the people involved want you to or not.

This stuff will all have reprocussions. Some good, some bad, but denying that things are changing is putting your head in the sand.

"the time period from when i was first heading in to college around the mid 00’s to now (still barely in my 20’s)….has seen a SHIT TON of change. in that SHORT amount of time. and as women have seen validation skyrocket"

Hear that Sentient? Open your eyes lol

"all that shit talked about in Fight Club x 100."

Movie holds tons of lessons in it, some more relevant than ever these days. I watch it like once a year.

on July 17th, 2016 at 11:08 pm
Original Link

“It is what affluent kids in left leaning families are programmed with. How about these kids, from majority single mother homes…?”

So we’ve got single moms producing either poem boys or gangsters. Not sure what your point is. When do any of these guys start being the excellent well-raised well-grounded men you’re saying they all are? Is that video your example of well-raised kids who are resisting society’s negative/self-destructive influences?

Do you even know what your own point is anymore?

“Culture within a tribe is stronger than the propaganda…”

…do you think society isn’t also pushing the “thug life” shit that influenced those guys in that video? Their “tribe propaganda” didn’t just spring up out of nowhere, they’re mimicing what what they see on TV movies etc

On top of that who are your kids probably going to be interacting with, middle-upper class kids or gangsta ghetto thugs? So it’s relevant what those kids are doing and what their societal influences are.

“Again… my point of krazy krunchy kooky parents using kids as useful dupes”

Cool, while you’re deconstructing the false narrative online, the rest of us are actually out interacting with the <25yo crowds (who aren't our kids and don't have to hide things from us to avoid getting in trouble) and seeing what I'm saying in real life.

As I've said a million times, but seem to have to keep repeating for you: I'm not saying EVERY dude is like this, but there's a MUCH bigger societal push toward it now. Denying this is voluntary retardation.

"anyone can claim anything. Yes it can go around fast today… viral…"

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT DUMBASS. lol There's a big difference between a couple people at school having a bad opinion of you based on a rumor and THE ENTIRE FUCKING WORLD seeing your pic and name doxxing your bank accounts calling your employer by the thousands to get you fired tarnishing your name so that anytime a future employer, date, friend, etc googles your name your false accusations come up.

"but so can exoneration…"

That's adorable. David Copperfield has talked about how his accusation was headline news thousands of stories etc etc but the news he was innocent got like 1% of the coverage. Nobody gives a shit. Ask any number of guys who've been slandered by the SJW media (because SJWs control the media, GamerGate exposed this thoroughly). Even if a guy is found innocent, those first accusations that went worldwide will keep people convinced that he's guilty and just "got away" with it.

"so Mattress Girl – meet OJ Simpson…"

OJ Simpson was a huge celebirty star. Who the fuck is Mattress Girl? Some ugly asian SJW on a random college campus. Her bullshit story has been proven false THOROUGHLY, and yet NOW just recently handed her the Woman of Courage award and was invited to the State of the Union with front-page photos on magazines etc obliterating Paul Nungesser's name. There's no "we were all wrong, she was lying, we owe him an apology" viral news coverage lol

That guy is just some random fucking student. And that's the POINT. In previous days people spread news about OJ Simpson because he was in the public eye. Now ANY random dude can end up the next Paul Nungesser or Duke Lacross or Rolling Stones UVA or Elevatorgate etc and have it spread like wildfire worldwide to live forever on the internet, something that Blax didn't have to worry about when he tried to kiss a girl at school.

"It is sad this seems like larping to you… genuinely mean that."

I know, right? It IS sad. But welcome to the modern male who's had his World of Warcraft privileges taken away by his parents:

"Fact – when someone is punched in the face, they have one of two reactions, either they acquiesce or they immediately fight back. Field tested. Try it some time and report back."

Hey Blax that video is what your buddies were like growing up right?

"sub cultures"

How big does it have to get before it's no longer a "sub" culture.

"Are the emo faggots filling in these gyms?"

"Poor George is scratching his head over that one…"

Today I learned that playing a sport and lifing a weight means you suddenly have an internally alpha frame. There are NO chodes lifting weights or doing MMA. Once you touch a weight you become Clint Eastwood. In LARP-world.

In the real world gyms and MMA classes are FULL of chodes and guys with shitty weak FI-based internals.

"There was a truck club gathering, so there were whole tables of young guys with big rigs and above average looking feminine women on their arms [90% blonde by one means or another]… Trucks like this… "

Ya, I've had social circles of guys like that. I've hung with guys who do manly as fuck hobbies that make me look like a huge vagina. But 90% have chode internals and Blue Pill FI-based mindsets where they plan to marry a NAWALT unicorn and live happily ever after.

"It’s time to move beyond the chicken-little routine and embrace masculinity. And do what we do… men move things forward. Because biology… and biology is going to set all of this right again…"

It's fascinating how much resistance there is to common sense and observable phenomenon. Is it that it's scary to accept that society can influence your kids once they leave your nest? That your kid might end up with FI/Blue Pill programming despite your best efforts and the thought of that is so depressing/frustrating that you have to cling to the "NOTHING IS WRONG DESPITE THE APARTMENT BEING ON FIRE NOTHING HAS CHANGED" delusion?

on July 18th, 2016 at 1:35 am
Original Link

@Anonymous Reader
“Losing connectivity is something a bit scary now for a lot of people because it is so ubiquitous”

Try getting a group of 20-somethings to all go out on a Friday night with no phones and watch the mindfuck resistance that goes through their brains lol It’s funny because when I STARTED sarging everyone would go out without that shit. It’s changed game dynamics…if you could isolate a girl in the Mystery Method days, she would maybe do one lap to look for her friends to say goodbye and then just assume they all went home. Now she’ll have a dozen txts saying “where are you??” lol

“Or pick a tune /artist to seed Pandora with and let someone else guide your thoughts”

Ya and I’m not even talking about just music. I’m talking about discussions and podcasts and shit, like general internet content. I can throw on a Joe Rogan playlist for literally a week straight and take in a ton of info and ideas but never actually sit down and make time to really process them or reflect on them as I go on some quiet walk through a park because I have to catch more Pokemonz!!!11 And now my friend is txting me!! And I have a new match on Tinder!!! Okay I turned off my phone and met up with my friend but look he has a new match on Tinder!! And look at his pokemons!!! And–and–

And I didn’t even HAVE a phone till my mid-20s, let alone a smartphone. But kids are getting phones as early as 13 these days. I can’t even IMAGINE what school would have been like if we had cell phones…it would have been another fucking world from socializing to cheating on homework/tests to bullying/gossiping/peer pressure to public-wide embarrassment etc etc

“Say, I wonder how many people under 30 have ever texted while engaged in sexytime?”

lol…girls pull out their smartphone to answer their txts when we cuddle up after sex. I let them do it because it doesn’t bother me and it’s funny to get a glimpse into their world and see their txt convos with their girlfriends (and always an ego boost to see their GFs asking if we’re still going at it and telling them they’re jealous etc lol) and their chodey orbiters, I’ll have them show me my Tinder competition sometimes and just watch how/why they swipe Left/Right on guys etc It’s fascinating to see into their world.

“And I’ve been pondering why – but I’ve studied enough MM and others to know. I don’t have a routine canned that really spikes and DHVs. I leave it to chance and wing it.”
πŸ™‚ You got it.

This goes back to what I say when I talk about Naturals…Naturals are GREAT at what they do. BUT, there are sticking points and weak spots in what they do. It’s hard for a Natural to use anything canned (unless it’s telling the story of something amazing they did that they’ve told 1000 times lol), like to use a canned structure…so if they don’t get immediate good feedback they don’t really have a gameplan (VS “ok, time for that cold-read that always makes girls feel X emotion”).

When you were young and in your prime and had amazing internal beliefs and subcomms and pussy abundance etc you didn’t need as much of a gameplan because that shit would float you along in set. But it’s powerful to have a few canned things where you KNOW you can spike Attraction or shift the interaction toward a specific mood etc at the snap of your fingers. Like if an AMOG enters my set I have a bunch of shit I can whip out that will get the girls laughing their asses off and fully focused on me and blow the guy out because he doesn’t know what to do when they can’t stop laughing and I just take a step to the side so the girls’ backs turn to him and dude is stuck standing there as I spike their emotions and we all ignore him (his value sinking the more he stands there without laughing)

“It’s funny how sitting here reviewing the approaches of the day makes clear what’s missing.”

This is why I push guys to do their Field Reports lol NOT doing Field Reports and only doing Brag Reports is why the Manosphere and reddit TRP’ers make slow-ass progress compared to PUAs. It’s like refusing to do homework…which is fine you can still pass, but if your goal is to get honors in school this year, do your fucking homework and then do a little extra.

“@Ya – The road to this place has been quite painful and tumultuous. In a way, it’s been mostly about becoming really self focused and greedier for what i want out of life. Shedding the negative energy towards myself. Sure, I’m still a maniac, but I like being a maniac now, he he.”

lol good man. Your mindset a year ago was like “I don’t even know what I WANT and would feel guilty expecting/wanting ANYTHING for my self” after years of providing for others. This is huge progress internally. It’s a big unplugging for a guy to finally realize and accept that it’s OKAY to “be selfish” and have desires and wants and needs and actively try to obtain those without worrying about people pleasing along the way…which is probably what you did back when you were in your prime slaying shit as an alpha. Till the FI got ahold of you.

“Pokemon Go circa 1959… what goes around comes around…”

lol hula hoop is making a comeback in the EDM/rave scene:

I know a handful of girls who think they look like these girls but COMPLETELY don’t, it’s the funniest shit:

But you knew that, right? Now we have your crazes AND our crazes. And they’re worldwide phenomenons using social media to ramp the hype train up and keep people obsessed (“I only have X pokemons, but this guy in korea has 10x that!!” “this girl can at this festival I didn’t go to can do this crazy hula hooping wow I want to do that!!” In the 60s that guy in Korea’s hula hoop skillz would be unknown to you and if you didn’t go to that festival you maybe heard about her from a friend if you had a friend who went or maybe saw a blurry black n white photo and a general text description of her skillz).

Technology influences society. No idea how you can deny it. This girl made a video thinking she’s going to directly talk to fucking Pharrell Williams and get herself on stage at Coachella…look how CONFIDENT she is about it, she’s even cracking jokes and shit like it’s a done deal in her mind that she’s going to get the attention of a AAA celebrity and get to go up on stage at this huge event:

“Pharrell – You…Me…on stage @ Coachella? Lets do this! Friends, family and fans…please tweet this video to @pharrell and use hashtag #coachellahappyhoopgirl Lets see if the power of social media can get me on stage at Coachella! Please share!”

And the crazy thing is it could HAPPEN in 2016. It’s not even that much of a stretch for her to get this. Having access to a smartphone and the internet has given her the chance at getting close to AAA celebrities. She could fuck Pharrell and have his kids and have the life of a billionaire with minimal effort, and if she doesn’t get him she’s on-stage for hundreds of thousands of rich good-looking etc dudes to see her and contact her and try to court her, all they have to do is shoot her a fucking Tweet or an Instagram message.

That wasn’t the same world that some small-town fangirl of the Beatles or Elvis lived in. If you don’t understand how that kind of then EN MASSE can fuck with the dynamics of inter-gender relationships in society, I don’t know what to tell you lol

But hey, don’t listen to me, listen to Blaximus, the guy YOU used as an example:

“Lol my brother. IMO, the ” games ” craze of the last 25 or so years if different than the crazes of the past.”
“Man, just keep an eye out. Today isn’t hoola hoop territory by a long shot. Grown ass men playing Pokemon….”
“This stuff is all relatively new, and it gets progressively worse very quickly.”

It’s funny how you keep focusing on me and not any of the other guys who are telling you you don’t know what you’re talking about lol Lot safer that way tho, hey. Wouldn’t want to have to deal with logic or anything.

“Every week at my job lately, I watch as HR struggles with disciplinary actions being levelled at the throngs of mostly young workers who do everything from surfing porn on their phones, to gawking at social media for hours and hours. Guidelines have mostly been blatantly ignored.”

lol ya, it’s insane. My buddy will txt me alllll fucking day at work, to complain about girls spending all day gossiping. And he doesn’t see the irony. All I can think of is what it must be like to be the boss of that place and you have an entire company putting in maybe 2 hours of actual solid work per day…but you can’t fire any of the women or risk a lawsuit lol

The tradeoff is that they’ll toss you out the second they can replace you with someone cheaper or more up to date on whatever technology the company uses or go bankrupt and everyone loses their jobs randomly, VS the old days where I hear there was loyalty between a company and its employees (work hard and you’ll have a job for life…of course NOW that only holds up if you can stay out of the public eye and not have your career destroyed at the tail end by SJW mobs, hi Shirtgate guy who landed a on a fucking comet you shouldn’t have worn that offensive shirt! Hi Donglegate victims who were fired by the overly-offended SJW in front of them plastering their faces across social media at a tech conference! Hi Tim Hunt who’s words were taken out of content and he had to resign after the SJW mobs slandered him!).

But no, it’s TOTALLY the same now lol

@Sentient @scribblerg
“Teasing, aggressive cold reading, push / pull, throw in some compliance hoops, a little kino…. then go with rapport stuff like “real conversations”…”

This. Moar A1-A3 before you go into C1.

“Who wants to go long on Pokemon Go…?”

Oh Pokemon Go will die in a few months. Probably as soon as the weather gets a little colder. But there are about eleventeen billion Pokemon Go clones being made right now to replace it for the people who love it and for everyone else a million other things (from new games and apps to new podcasts and movies to new YouTube videos to new songs and bands to new dating sites etc etc etc all available at the swipe of a button) will come out every month to help keep feeding their dopamine urges. They don’t have to find a way to make having a pet rock be fun for a year…they can buy a pet rock and then a dozen other pet rocks including the rare pet rock that they can post on their instagram to make everyone else jealous, then lose interest in the whole thing in a week and pick up on any of the other thousands of fads that their smartphones and media dangle in front of their face.

But it’s TOTALLY the same as when you were a kid.

@hank holiday
“Still working on that. Hard to get a job in the big city, but I am making calls.”

Good man. I’m more excited about this than you actually getting laid right now lol

“I just KNOW it. She’s up to something. So everything I say is about uncovering this”

Right, this is some cold-reading/roleplaying-ish combo and it works well so keep it up. But also think about how to turn it sexual when you do it.

“Just having more things ping my radar now. Had that happen a few times at work.”

This is why I’m not pushing you too hard yet. You’re still learning what iois even LOOK like let alone believing you get/deserve them. Now you can tell the difference between girls being interested and not interested and friendly interested VS flirty interested etc which is all important calibration to learn so that you know when to plow forward and when you recalibrate and try another angle. Plus it’s hard to push all the way when you’re legitimately not attracted to the girls…when you get to a new city around girls you won’t regret waking up beside, is when I’m going to push you harder to focus on actually closing lol

And ya you can go back into set over and over. It’s fine. If she was your girlfriend you wouldn’t be like “oh I already talked to her once when I was in the room earlier, I’d better not engage her again or she’ll LOSE attraction for me” lol Because you know you have value to your girlfriend and that she’s getting value by you engaging her. If I’m handing you a bag with a million dollars in it, I’m not going to be like “oh I knocked on his door and he wasn’t super receptive and didn’t open it fully and let me even really tell him about this bag of money…I guess I’d better not knock again because then he won’t want this million dollars” lol In my mind I’m going to knock again until you realize exactly the value I’m offering you because in my mind OBVIOUSLY you would LOVE for me to knock again so I can give you this million dollars, you just don’t realize all the value I’m holding (DHVing is like dangling the bag of money with a dollar sign on it in front of the peephole on their door) lol

That doesn’t mean don’t calibrate, but like, don’t be afraid to re-engage a few times. If she’s hostile/actively negative then ya, you can back off. But if she’s just lukewarm or plays along a bit but doesn’t really instigate or anything or is just one word answers etc, feel free to give it another go and try different stuff until you hit something that gets her to open up.

@Sentient @Hank
“You catching pokemon?” and thats it. Why WOULDN’T you use that. Lol, its so easy.”

A point to consider… this is an easy open but does not sexualize… I’ve had good success with Phone Destroyer lines like “swiping left a lot huh…?” etc.”

Agreed on the sexualization thing. I’m using “Are you Tindering or catching Pokemon? ’cause I’m going to judge you for doing either one in a bar.”

@scray @hank
“you are getting attraction from them, it’s just subtle and less “obvious” than you’re used to. you’ll also notice that the windows of opportunity to escalate are narrower and the margin for error is smaller, too.”

This. This is why taking newbies infield is so frustrating their first year lol They’re getting attraction that to guys like us is neon flashing green lights 100% guaranteed lays lined up…but they’ll eject the set and be like “I wonder if she liked me…she complimented my hair, so that’s an ioi right?” Meanwhile the chick was ready to go home with him lol

Kenny Powers is epic. That’s basically how I walk into nightclubs lol Inside my head that’s what’s happening even if the bar is completely empty or no one’s even looking at me and I’m just walking in normal etc, just full delusion. Greatest Natural I’ve ever met was like this too, we used to watch this show before going to the bars lol Highly recommend the show, Kenny Powers is like the definition of frame control and delusional confidence.

“a girl glances over at me across the room for a second or two…i don’t treat it as ‘oh hmmm maybe she’s….’ i treat as XXX-rated blatant hitting on me she’s desperate for my cock jesus christ slow down i don’t want to wake up pregnant.”

lol ya, same. Hank will be like this too one day if he sticks at this. But first he’s gotta experience these iois and learn how subtle they can be. It’s like that Mystery vid I linked where he’s talking about girls playing with their hair and scratching their hand etc and the girl beside him is doing it whenever he tools her and can’t stop herself…but it’s so subtle that most guys wouldn’t notice it in the video unless they’re told to look for it, let alone notice it in real-time, let alone notice it in real-time with a girl doing it for THEM.

“Nintendo has little to profit from outright insanity of Poke Go”

…lol wut? Nintendo is going to be rolling in money from the hype lol

“And no, @YaReally I don’t play Pokemon Go. Don’t need to waste time on leisure pursuits.”

Whoops, I read “I went on a walk this evening with my wife Pokemonining” as that you’re Pokemoning together, my bad.

“Instead of getting butt-hurt about the FI and whining about the mores of adolescent skill set 25 year olds in night clubs and bars.”

I’m not butt-hurt about it. I’m pointing out the reality of what’s happening out there. That reality happens to not be extremely positive. You interpret this as whining and butt-hurt because it makes you sad to hear negative things and you would rather duck your head in the sand and cover your ears.

Sorry but if we’re going to have honest conversations about parenting in 2016, I think guys should be aware of the influences out there affecting their kids instead of acting like they’re all going to an Amish church when they leave the house. CALL ME CRAZY.

“My rant has to do with a larger demographic. And the demographic of a lot of other lurkers and readers on the blog here.”

I’m the one talking about vast changes across society that affect the average boy in today’s society. You and Sentient are the ones digging out personal anecdotes of your family out in the middle of a forest that doesn’t use technology and gangsta-wannabe dudes jumping around in front of cameras. Most Red Pill guys are going to be working on handling their shit enough to be able to raise their kids in at least a middle-class environment in a decent sized city with similar peers for their kids to engage with, where they’re going to run into the shit I’m talking about. I don’t see a lot of push in the Red Pill community to raise your kids in ghettos or move out to farms where you can control every factor like you and Sentient.

“PUA and your target women”

Remember kids, PUA is only for chasing those drunk bar sluts!!! It has no other applications outside of that.

“Nothing about red pill theory or masculine tactical virtues, or masculine self improvement other that PUA skills. Nothing about old school Stoicism, wealth creation so you can kick back a little halfway through the sixth decade, legacy, nice home, recreation, hobbies, reading fantastic books, tribal socializing with guys.”

Other PUAs/Red Pill’ers cover that stuff better than me. But they also take into account the changes happening in society instead of believing nothing has changed. New set of books has been written, time to adapt.

“I’ll whine about 2% of your writing sure, when your talking trash and nihilism.”

I just point out a negative observable trend and the lack of incentives/reasons for it to turn around. You interpreting that as “talking trash and nihilism” is your own “don’t tell me everything isn’t perfect!!” baggage.

“Maybe stick to PUA advice. Instead of cultural prescriptive nihilism.”

Again the nihilistic aspect is your interpretation. I’m just reporting from the field. You’re doing the same shit as when someone points out a statistic on race and the SJWs go “YOU’RE A RACIST YOU’RE PROMOTING HATE!!” No, I’m just reporting observable trends. Don’t shoot the messenger just ’cause you don’t like the message out there.

“(I.e. you don’t know shit about parenting 21 y.o. and beyond–one’s children don’t fall off a cliff outside your grasp, no matter how shitty society is.)”

No, but I know a lot about fucking those 21yos who leave the nests of their family’s influence and go off the rails, or were off the rails under their family’s care but were just really good at hiding it while their parents thought they were raising a NAWALT unicorn.

So ya, I think my observations are a little bit relevant in a discussion about social influences on children and how that can affect long-term parenting.

No one’s saying you’re a bad parent, I’m just saying society’s current influences are off the fucking charts and if your kid moves across the country from you and makes a bunch of friends, they’re going to be surrounded by those influences 24/7. How is that a controversial statement?

“Humans still have strong tendencies from DNA, epi-DNA and patterned behavior despite that rapid changes and decline of old school norms.”

How is this any different from The Man harping on how we’re all hardwired to follow the golden rule? Meanwhile we’ve got dudes driving a semi full of weapons through crowds of families attending festivals and shit.

“And your PUA gathered intelligence infield is a lagging indicator.”

lol it’s the most up to date indicators possible to get. And we can make future predictions based off the data we collect.

“You mean PUA infield actually predicted in 2006 that girls would become more flaky, more self validated and more frenetic?”

If we had known smartphones would take off, ya we could have predicted that shit. Even back when Facebook and online dating started picking up steam we were talking about how it would change dynamics. Same with texting etc. No one saw technology coming in like a wrecking ball the way it did but everything that’s happening makes perfect sense through PUA analysis (women feeling their value is inflated from the thirsty attention etc etc).

“What do you predict for 10 years from now?”

I’d tell you but you’ll cry about how I’m being nihilistic and I’ll have to read another rant about my one-dimensionality.

@scray @SJF
“if my ‘kin’ bring value, great, i give it back. if they don’t, they can fuck off.”

This is my view. That’s how I handle my conversations here too. The only people I’m an asshole to are the ones who are an asshole to me first. Except everyone loses their shit when I give back what they throw at me lol Someone lectures me like a condescending dickhead so I give them the same thing right back 10-fold and suddenly it’s “Why is YaReally so MEAAAAAN!! He’s such a jerrrrrk!!!” It’s hilarious.

“maybe. maybe not. i know plenty of girls who have done shit their parents will NEVER know about — runs the gamut from bad life phases with drugs, dudes, shit a stint as an escort or minor porn star, sugar baby…like lol man….

this is typical manosphere ‘IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN TO ME IN CAMELOT’ thinking….and maybe you’re right, idk…but you must conduct yourself as if it can and has already.”

This. I’m sure your guys’ daughters are perfectly well adjusted virgin angels and your boys are all super jock alpha male badasses. But in a discussion providing men parenting advice, I’m not going to tell them “don’t worry about it, just be stoic and optimistic and everything will work out perfect! :)” I’m going to tell them “look this is what you’re up against out there” so they have a realistic understanding of what it’s going to take to keep a kid on track long-term.

But hey, I’m an asshole for wanting men to be prepared because hearing this stuff makes some guys sad. Just like Blue Pill people will call me an asshole for pointing out that girls like jerks because they don’t wanna hear it. Okay I guess I’m an asshole then lol

“Any second any thing can happen. Doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t invest in actually doing more than just one dimension.”

NO ONE IS SAYING YOU SHOULDN’T. We are saying that it’s important to be aware of the realities out there.

“I used to pursue leisure pursuits until I got a real pursuit and passion.”

So we get to the real heart of the issue: people not doing what you want. Basically we have to live like you or we’re one dimensional. You can live however you want, but when the rest of society is chasing Pokemon Go, that’s going to have an effect on social conditioning for the masses even if you manage to dodge the bullet because you’re a super badass. I’m getting at how do we help the guys who aren’t super badasses living on farms like you and Sentient, how do we help the guys who live in cities with kids who interact with peer groups that have smartphones at 13 and view Miley Cyrus as a role model etc But god forbid anyone discuss anything that doesn’t directly relate to you.

Most people out by themselves wouldn’t have even talked to that guy you talked to.

That actually brings up another change in society I’ve noticed: when I go sit solo at a bar to have a pint/food, if a younger dude is sitting at the bar, he’ll be engrossed in his phone or otherwise keeping to himself. But if an older dude like a Blaximus is sitting there, in my peripheral vision I’ll 99% of the time catch them WANTING to engage the people around them. Like there’s a certain body language to it where they’ll glance at everyone else or chuckle out loud to something on the TV in front of us or sit angled a certain open way or SOMETHING where it’s like, you KNOW they’re DYING to have a real human interaction/conversation because in their day that’s what people DID sitting at the bar, you just talked to whoever was around you, but now that’s like a foreign idea to a lot of this generation and we’ll just eat/drink in silence keeping to ourselves and our phone lol

Actually one of our oldschool ways of encouraging guys to open was to tell them “be like that old guy at the bar that just starts telling stories” lol Because that’s a classic stereotype we think is funny, but really it comes from when things were, in terms of socializing, better in my opinion…back when we didn’t have portable distraction devices. I’d imagine a bar before they had TVs or radios would have been social as fuck and it would be normal to chat with people of different ages and walks of life because they just happened to be beside you.

“Guess I’m done here … again. Yeah … Ya-Really … ya, really … you’re a fucking asshole.”
“I tried to offer a decent commentary here, from my situation with SBs”

Oh ya? You were trying to have a discussion were you? You came in here flipping the bird to everyone and then in your follow-up you start with “I’m not reading any of your replies fuck you guys”. Now you’re trying to paint history like you’re some fucking victim and I’m a big bully. You didn’t want a discussion, don’t try to bullshit us. You wanted to come in and brag and swing your dick around and then a girl hurt your feels and now you’re butthurt that someone called you out on it.

“you grow some balls and meet some real women in real life”

lol that was the last two nights. Tonight is Sunday.

“Yeah, real men pick up on that shit and realize you’re a fucking turd.”

lol why is it always the turdiest of men that call me a turd and think it’s going to sting?

“Truth is … YOU DON”T KNOW SHIT. Not about me, my situation or anyone else’s here.”

Truth is your situation isn’t unique or special. We all know guys like you, we’ve all met guys who do the SD-SB thing and try to convince us they have a NAWALT unicorn and their relationship is real and goes beyond the payments. That’s why you had more than just me telling you to try telling your girl you don’t have anymore money. Because we know the relationship is a fantasy even if you don’t. You want to believe you’re the exception to the rules, but you’re not. You’re the same as half the RVF running off to thailand thinking their thailand girls are madly in love with them and they’ve found a loophole and a way to rig the system.

“Letting some dudes tee off on others … ain’t right and just drives people away.”

Like I say, the guys who throw a fit about me teeing off on them are the guys who teed off on me or the general forum first. If you think this assholish shit:

“I got sex, on demand, 72 times in a row with ZERO FLAKES. For all the doubters … YaReally … I’m speaking to you … try that in the real world. Brad Pitt don’t get 72 times in a row with zero flakes.”

“Haven’t pissed your life away learning to lie, deceive, manipulate and bullshit like a used car salesman or a woman (ps, its called “game”) ?”

…was calm and reasonable discussion then just lol You tee off on me, literally calling my name out in your rant about your fantasy SD-SB relationship, insult PUAs, game in general, talking shit to the married guys, etc and then when I just return the favor you cry bully and play the victim? Are you a woman? Don’t dish it out if you don’t want it served back.

“You want to drive away your audience by putting a two faced lying asshole like YaReally in charge to drive the dynamic”

Nothing two-faced about me. If I think you’re a dick I won’t pretend I don’t…that’s the part you’re mad about, isn’t it?

“and they will get married, and have kids, and divorce rape. That’s nothing new.”

Divorce rates have increased dramatically since no-fault divorce was created and technology creating an entire ecosystem of support for women and slander for men in divorce situations, and the limitless options women are handed by Tinder etc etc helps perpetuate it.

It’s not at ALL the same as the old days where a divorced woman was shamed and had limited men to choose from. How the fuck is saying this controversial or debatable?? Am I in crazy land?

“According to ya, what has now changed for these guys, do you think they are no longer getting pussy?”

Significantly less are, now that you can’t legally rape your wife and society will support her in cuckolding you, I’d imagine.

“Do you think they are no longer having girlfriends?”

Sure they are. And those girlfriends are dealing with the insane societal pushes to do things like be Sugar Babies, literally the topic of Rollo’s article. Again how the fuck is any of this controversial? Where am I right now? A Blue Pill forum??

“Do you think they are no longer getting married?”

Hopefully they aren’t, but lots of them are because they’re still FI-conditioned to believe that True Love will conquer all and marriage will fix their relationship problems, just show MORE commitment, happy wife happy life, etc, etc Meanwhile society is telling their GFs/wives they don’t need no man, and a woman should ride the cock carousel in her 20s just like Amy Schumer in her latest movie where guys with 6-packs chase her and she rejects them for being too needy lolol high-five grrrlfriend, and focus on your career instead of settling down omg you want to settle down what are you a 1950s housewife don’t you care about yourself and your independence, and there’s no such thing as the wall so drink and do drugs and party it up you’ll have the same attention at 41 as you have at 21, and here’s a thousand orbiters better looking than your boyfriend txting you every week and hey Chris Hemsworth just Liked your Instagram photo you could get Chris Hemsworth omg he even MESSAGED you what are you doing with that small-town guy?? Eat pray love your way out of that marriage girlfriend just like in that Eat Pray Love movie, a world of Chris Hemsworths is waiting for you, we all divorced our husbands and don’t want to feel like lonely single losers so we need you to sabotage your relationship too so we can all have girls’ night drinking wine and Tindering while we watch the trailer for Bad Moms that glamourizes being shitty moms.

…but hey, don’t listen to me, I’m just some asshole that should be banned for bringing up uncomfortable truths in a Red Pill forum so we can maybe figure out ways to help future men overcome this stuff and raise their kids to navigate this world better. But fuck me, right?

on July 18th, 2016 at 2:20 am
Original Link

@Sentient @Blaximus @SJF

This chick has 1.5 million subscribers:

This dude has something like 5 million subscribers across his various channels:

This is my competition for college chicks, I see tons of guys like this in the kiddie bars any given night, and this is the type of guys surrounding the average middle to upper-class teenagers/adults:

Remember reading comic books as a kid? Those strong masculine male role models in there, teaching you how to be a manly hero?

I wouldn’t watch/read any of this shit…but I’m Red Pill. Some 8yo kid picking up the latest issue of his favorite comic book or reading it at a friend’s house? Or some 13yo surfing the net in her room or on her smartphone? Some early teens boy who wasn’t lucky enough to get Sentient and SJFs genetics where he pops out of the wound holding a football and a chopping down trees and is instead looking for guidance from society on how to be a man because he’s not built for sports and his single-mom is at my place getting railed and his dad only gets to see him a couple times a month if at all after the divorce?

It’s great that it worked out for you guys specifically. I’m sure when your kids leave the nest they’ll resist all temptations just like kids who eat healthy growing up never eat unhealthy in college when they’re unsupervised (the Freshman Fifteen is a myth after all) and never become friends with girls who are eating unhealthy and encouraging them to do the same, and women who get married young never get divorced or become friends with other women who use Tinder or get divorced themselves and will try to influence them, and boys who have limited sexual experience will hit college and never get one-itis or stick their dick in crazy or lose their frame or become friends with guys who will get one-itis etc.

I fully believe that you will raise NAWALT women and NABALT boys against all odds in society.

But there are a lot of other kids and parents out there who could use some answers and guidance on how to navigate this shit, and “be optimistic and don’t let YaReally post his nihilistic field observations” probably isn’t going to be a lot of help for them just like “just be yourself” and “women are wonderful, don’t be so misogynistic saying women like jerks” doesn’t help boys lol

on July 18th, 2016 at 2:21 am
Original Link

In mod for too many links again lol save me Rollo!

on July 18th, 2016 at 5:05 am
Original Link

@Culum Struan
“Hugely entertaining and they have a lot of the actual mechanics of attraction (laser eyes etc) down very well for acting..”

Ya that was the big draw to the show for me. I found it interesting how many normal Blue Pill people wrote the pickup scenes in the show off as impossible fantasy fluff that would never happen. But when you understand Attraction, sub-comms, passing shit-tests spiking Attraction, self-amusement/depreciation, confidence, lasers, tonality, etc etc, those picks really aren’t that crazy. Most of them are pretty close to how things actually work.

Seasons 1-3 are the best, 4 is worth a watch, but 5-7 get pretty retarded. It’s funny, after S3 the show actually BECOMES the cartoon character exaggerated thing the first season’s reviews claimed it was. But those first 3 seasons are fucking TIGHT and show a LOT of good stuff about the lifestyle (the ups and downs including one-itis and having a kid to raise etc) and pickup and Red Pill concepts in general.

@rocket @Culum
“For that matter, I posted a detailed thoughtful response to you about sugar babies and I have as much experience (or more) than you of sugar baby dating. But you ignored it. Why? Again, it’s the same cognitive dissonance – easier to ignore the points I made than to address the dissonance in your brain. ”

This. If Rocket had actually read anything anyone wrote to him I might not have been such an asshole, but the dude takes a steaming shit on “game” and then people put in the time and effort to write him replies and he comes back going “I ain’t readin ANY of your shit fuck you guys!!” Like okay, then I’m going to lol at your situation because if you had listened to guys giving you advice you might not have ended up in it. And you’re going to end up in it AGAIN, over and over because you still don’t want to hear anything you disagree with.

@Sentient @Culum
“I’m not sure what you guys are actually disagreeing about. ”

Me neither. Your read on it is my read on it. I think Sentient just likes disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing. As I’ve said from the start I’ve never said it’s ALL men in society, but you can’t look at teenagers chasing Pokemon around and crying about having to make decisions, and teenagers off to fight wars and lead households and think “ya, today’s boys are just as masculine overall”, or look at a society that encourages men to cry and shut up and listen to women and a society that lol’ed at the idea of spousal rape or safe spaces and think “ya it’s the same influences as back then”.

Blaximus: you ever have a bunch of your male buddies demand a safe space from their teachers where they could hide from someone disagreeing with them on the internet? lol

“Blitz Week begins in a few days.”

Good man. And good luck lol Guys have 3somes all the time, why can’t YOU? πŸ™‚

“You are also deluded about the nature of your relationships with your SBs.”

This is rocket’s key problem. Until he accepts it, he’s just like the whales that think their stripper loves them. If the Red Pill community was in the business of teaching men how to chase negotiated desire our job would be a fuckload easier lol

“But you didn’t.”

That’s right, we didn’t know what technological advances would happen. But we knew that if you pound a girl with free validation she views her SMV higher and higher until she acts like a 10. That’s why we always had ratings for not just what the girl looks like but how she PERCEIVES her value, and you neg a girl who perceives herself as a 9 or 10 but not a girl who perceives herself as a 6 regardless of what she objectively looks like. If you had told us current technology was going to exist we would have nailed everything that’s happening right now.

The technology was the part we couldn’t predict, not the behavior of women/people. Just like we can’t predict that the McDonald’s up the street will explode from a gas leak tomorrow, but that doesn’t mean we can’t predict trends in McDonald’s success or tell you what would happen if the gas was left on and a match was lit.

“Predicting the past is a difficult enough undertaking. Predicting the future rather more so.”

Ya for sure. We can’t predict future trends at all, it’s impossible. There aren’t entire industries and professions based around predicting trends. We CAN’T know whether there will be Pokemon Go clones coming out soon. Trends and the future are TOTALLY UNPREDICTABLE. There probably won’t be any Pokemon Go clones and since we can’t predict how long fads will last we can’t conclude that Pokemon Go won’t last a year, we have to assume that it’ll stay exactly how it’s going now so 10 years from now people will still be stampeding Central Park for the latest Pokemon. In fact we don’t even know if attraction will still work the same way tomorrow that it does today, let’s throw out game.

Who did I think I was, thinking it was possible to predict future trends in human behavior, fuckin Nostradamus? lol

on July 18th, 2016 at 2:40 pm
Original Link

“yeah what’s weird is that we’ve shown everyone how to hash shit out civilly even where there’s a disagreement several times already lol.”


Like fucking relax. This is all stuff that’s observable infield and saying “parenting is harder now” isn’t the same as saying “IT’S IMPOSSIBLE AND YOU SUCK AS A PARENT AND QUIT POSTING YOU IDIOT”.

“so like…I don’t think there’s no hope for masculinity. I just think it’s going to be different in the future.”

Clinging to old definitions of masculinity while the rest of the world changes is like Blue Pill guys clinging to the old set of books while women are using the new set. It’s a romantic notion, but open your eyes.

I’ll do masculine however I like, what other guys think of it is irrelevant. It’s not Boy Scouts where we all have to give a shit about earning our Sentient/SJF badge for chopping down a tree and fixing an engine. Oh but wait, I’m one dimensional if I don’t live up to their standards lol Just a replacement for the FI telling men what to do, far as I’m concerned. Like I said “Just a lotta guys laying down a lotta rules, nothing much worth listening to.”

I think part of the pushback is older guys having a hard time understanding that their opinion doesn’t really “matter by default”. Like “what?? Don’t you care about my approval?? Don’t you think I deserve respect by default because I’m old?? Don’t you just assume I’m wise and knowledgable because I managed to not die for a long time?? Don’t you think you should just concede to my view and agree with me because I’m older and wiser than you??” Nope lol Present your case, and if it holds up, cool, if it doesn’t, out the window it goes.

My answers to these two would be:

“1. How significant is the percentage/number of girls from all socioeconomic groups make poor life decisions and behave foolishly, and”

lol to that I say look around. I’m sure there are pockets of NAWALT unicorns living on farms and shit without TV kept from the horrors of social influence. But the VAST majority of girls are pretty fucked up on various levels these days. Some of them you have to fuck to find that out because they put on a real good act, avoiding bars and going to church and all. There’s a reason the slutty catholic schoolgirl stereotype exists. But that’s probably just the slutty whores, not the Good Girl Madonnas lol

“2. Can these girls recover from their bad decisions/foolish behavior?”

My question would be: why would they even TRY? No one will hold them accountable.

Get knocked up by a guy who bails, you’re a strong independent womyn party it up single mom you’re a martyr! Rack up a shitload of irresponsible debt, it’s cool some chode beta will bail you out if you pretend to like him. Get fat and hit the wall early, it’s cool just take a MySpace angle and go on Tinder and thousands of thirsty higher-value dudes will act like you’re a 10 and if you can rawdog one of them you can hook him, and if you’re married just shame your hubby if he says anything and read another Jezebel article that tells you big is beautiful. Pick a fight or make outrageous demands or make false accusations for attention or to hurt a guy, it’s all good you can still get the Woman of Courage award and go to the UN and have everyone believe the guy was guilty for something that never actually happened and you’re still the victim who deserves praise. Kill your fucking kids and it’s post-partum depression or mental issues (meanwhile when it’s a dude he’s just a psychopath) and we’ll try to lessen your sentence or get you off scott free because you’re a woman and you shouldn’t be punished so hard (hit up /r/pussypass/ on reddit for infinite examples).

Like…WHY would they restrict themselves and voluntarily choose LESS freedom, in a society that rewards and/or excuses them no matter how far past the line they go?

“Point one: Girls who make good decisions will likely not even appear on YaReally’s radar. Girls who were reared properly and mateguard themselves for their future husbands. Good girls who get called “nuns” and are virgin-shamed by cultural voices. Good girls who herd together and support each other. They don’t do GNO at bars but will go to restaurants together, shopping, church (gasp!), UMC dinner parties, etc.”

lol do you guys understand that PUAs approach girls ANYWHERE? Yes, we pick girls up at restaurants in groups, shopping, church, UMC dinner parties, etc sometimes even macking girls in front of their families. Personally I prefer the bar scene, but we have guys running game EVERYWHERE.

This magical race of unicorn girls that PUAs will never find is just madonna/whore fantasy nonsense and is the same as Feminists accusing PUAs of only hitting on horny drunk low self-esteem bar sluts. Silly shit.

“Sometimes this is true, but it’s really quite easy to know which girls mateguard themselves and which don’t. There are nice girls who do GNO, but they aren’t Good Girls ™.”

lol where in the world am I right now? Is this still a Red Pill forum? Girls don’t WANT to mateguard themselves from ATTRACTIVE MEN. Their Hypergamy WANTS the more attractive male and their hindbrain WANTS them to LET themselves get impregnated by that guy who’s triggering high attraction/arousal.

“The impact of bad choices on society is overwhelming because most people aren’t UMC.”

This is my point. You might be able to keep your son/daughter away from shitty influences when they’re under your roof, and you might be able to instill enough conditioning into them to help them make smart decisions. But when they run off to college surrounded by titties, booze, drugs, junk food, freedom, etc for the first time and are surrounded by their peers embracing that stuff and pushing it on them and peer pressuring them, or when they get married early and settle down and then get bored at 30-35 while watching Eat Pray Love and Amy Schumer movies as their friends who weren’t reared as well as them are getting divorced and begging them to come out to the bar so they don’t have to be alone don’t you care about your friend I’d do the same for you I just want a boyfriend so bad please come with me your boyfriend is away on business and you have nothing else to do c’mon let’s have a girls’ night bestie best friend here have more wine ok let’s go!

…like, society is TRYING to fuck them up. Crabs in a bucket and all. The less perfect your kids are the less perfect their friends feel they have to be. Your daughter’s friend in college feels guilty about being a Sugar Baby? Is she going to QUIT being a Sugar Baby? No, she’s going to tell your daughter about how cool it is and how it makes sense to have some guy pay her debt so she can live her dreams and it’s so easy and fun and bla bla trying to get her to jump on board so she doesn’t have to feel like a prostitute. You guys can’t screen all their friends and classmates and roommates and co-workers and social circles etc for their entire life lol

“In some social circle/mixed sets situations it appears natural to go straight into JM”

In most social circle situations you already have value. It’s like when you go to a private party or exclusive club or something, just the fact that you’re THERE is a DHV. So often depending on what a girl has heard or seen of you (how are you interacting with the other people in the group, do the guys react to you, how do the girls react, what has she heard about you, etc etc) you may already have enough value that you by default have some A2 from most of the girls in the group and can just go into C1. Mixed sets where you don’t know anyone is similar, the girls are watching how you handle yourself and who’s reacting to you and how etc.

That’s why most normal guys do social circle game or hook up with co-workers…’cause by default they’re around these girls a lot so those girls get to see them DHV over time to where they have enough value that he doesn’t need to do as much as he would with a pure cold approach, he can often skip right into C1 (though it would be even more powerful if he did A3 properly first).

So ya, feel free to go into JM. Social circle game is a LOT more chill.

Juggler Method. Deep rapport basically for anyone who doesn’t know.

Show that to a room full of teenage boys lol all they’ve seen for role models is Michael Cera and Seth Rogan. All the little 8yo boys excited to see a movie about ghosts getting zapped are seeing this when they look up information on the movie:

That Clint Eastwood scene is a great scene about displaying/reading subtle subcomms though. But it would be like juggling nitro-glycerine for newbies in 2016. Even for an advanced guy, a chick describes that to her girlfriend who wasn’t there to see what a badass sexy alpha male you are, and who knows. A lot of rape accusations happen when the girl is convinced by her friends that it was rape and the guy didn’t call her back so she’s hurt and goes along with it to justify why she fucked him (otherwise she’s just a “dumb slut who got used”).

“All the rest of teaching boys to be men ( or *men* to be men ) is all about the mechanics, which get modified over time to reflect current culture/society on the ground.”

This. This is why I don’t like this whole vibe I’m getting from the guys telling me I’m one dimensional and masculinity is this and that. Like it or not, what scray and I and Tyler are is what gets ahead in 2016. I don’t need to know how to fix a car, I can pay someone to do it and half the shit on them is computer-based now anyway. I don’t need to chop down a tree, there’s no reason for me to do that, I don’t need to build a fucking log cabin to survive in 2016 lol Hell knowing how to make a good website gives you more earning/survival potential in 2016 than being able to chop a tree down.

What I need to be able to do in 2016 to maximize my survival/replication is to navigate social environments in real life. What I need to be able to do is DHV to the right people and know how to tell who those people are…realistically DHV’ing and winning SJF or Sentient’s or even Blaximus’ approval isn’t going to get me fuck all. But DHV’ing to that HB9 and walking her around other men is going to give me value in their minds and throwing a backyard BBQ where I introduce girls like her to them is going to do more for my survival/replication value than fishing in the long run.

What I need to be able to do is hold my frame against a bunch of increasing bullshit pressure and shit-tests from society and women. What I need to be able to do is handle Buyer’s Remorse and play the delicate game of making betas and alphas both love me. Do I need to go fish? I could spend that time working on an any number of other things that will make a bunch of money or build me a bigger network and ensure my survival more than fishing.

Hell you could argue that becoming one of those pointless YouTube celebrities I linked making retarded videos is going to skyrocket your value above some guy hunting and fishing in 2016 because you’re massively increasing your network of supporters who will help you if you need it, throw their income at you etc. Dan Bilzerian’s survival/replication value is off the charts and it’s not because he can shoot a gun, it’s because he knows how to use social media optimally and understands preselection/social proof/DHV’ing. That guy could get 500 smokin hot 10s pregnant and has the money to keep them all alive, if he wanted to, whether other guys respect him or view him as manly by their standards or not.

Now if I WANT to fish and LIKE fishing then ya, I can go fish, sure, but the “old set of books” saying “a REAL man goes fishing” is outdated. A lot of guys still running by the old books in 2016 are the guys who get false rape accusations, or fired for sexual harrassment, or divorce-raped because they didn’t understand the Eat Pray Love cultural influences they were up against, or get sniped by catty betas, or step on too many toes, do something in public that a nosy busy-body doesn’t approve of and she calls in the power of social media to ruin him, etc etc

“So instead of telling guys to fish ( and not being taken seriously at all ), I try to encourage the mindset to where they will want to be more self sufficient and confident”

That’s what pushing them into the field forces them to learn to do too lol That’s why I love pickup. Like scray says: the field teaches you all this other shit. And you get pussy along the way instead of a smelly fish (insert obvious joke here). If a guy’s goal is just manliness in general, sure he can do whatever gets him there. But if his goal is getting pussy, then sarging gives him a bunch of internal shit fishing hunting building etc would give him plus sends him directly toward his goal of getting pussy.

“Male apathy about maleness. Avoid that shit.”

I have a very strong sense of maleness. It’s just not the maleness that SJF approves of. In my mind I’m masculine as fuck, by MY standards in a 2016 world. Not by the old books. But I don’t care about the old books. I decide what’s important to me and where to focus my energy.

@hank holiday
“I am just NOTICING things that I didn’t before. Can’t necessarily tell the difference between friendly/flirty interested. I just notice smaller blips in body language I didn’t before.”

lol you’ll get there. Now that you can see some of it, your brain will start to gather reference experiences for your interactions and learn which of those are friendly and which are interested. You get this from field experience. That’s why guys who rely on hookers and strippers etc instead of sarging often can’t tell that the stripper is just being nice to them or just milking them for money like Rocket, they can’t really tell the difference because they don’t experience enough of the legitimate desire to tell. And it’s why a waitress or a female friend of one of my buddies can chat with me and I go “she wants to fuck” and they go “oh she’s just being nice, that’s just how she is” and then they’re shocked when I end up fucking the girl lol It’s learning to spot those little differences that comes with field experience.

“Well, you have to get laid off them a bit first lol.”

lol ya. Your MAJOR progress is going to happen in a new city, but you are getting a great head start. Like, you’re building parts of the skillset that guys starting out surrounded by hotties often don’t build and have to GO BACK to build (like learning to genuinely engage people who aren’t “girls I want to fuck” lol). I know that doesn’t help your dick much but down the road when you have a harem of hotties going you’ll be like “ya I get what he meant” lol

@hank holiday @Blaximus
“I don’t think you necessarily have to work with your hands. I think its more about MAKING something and taking RISKS. Of going out on a limb and saying “You know what, I am going to do this. Don’t tell me the odds. I am just going to do this.””

This. This is what I was trying to get at. It goes back to the same thing as looks…it’s not about the looks themselves, it’s about the subcomms behind them. But if you can earn those subcomms through another way then the end result is the same. It’s not the fishing/hunting/building itself, it’s what that teaches (taking risks working around sharp/dangerous machinery, learning to rely on yourself, maybe handle an emergency situation or two, learning when to relax and enjoy life and when to hustle, etc etc). And you can gain that stuff through other methods (like sarging).

“The main thing is to go out and do something that you want to do, focus on that, and push yourself and take (calculated) risks to achieve mastery in that area.”

This. VERY few guys would be able to get to where Tyler is right now, if they started out where he started out. Dude may come off a little awkward at times or have a nasally voice and not be jacked and never chopped down a tree and whatever, but that guy pushed himself WAY past his limits, out of every comfort zone he found himself in, and knows himself better than most guys will ever know themselves. Dude doesn’t need to go fishing…unless he WANTS to lol

“I don’t comprehend the question. LOL.”

That’s why we love you lol

“Like Chris Rock famously said ” my job is to keep her off the pole..”.”

lol this. My point to Sentient/SJF is simply that the pressure, encouragement, rewards, etc to get ON that pole have increased dramatically at this point in time. And we should acknowledge that if we’re going to teach men how to counter it.

“Buuuutttt… If you’re GUILTY, the safest place for you *is* behind bars if I get wind of it..”

lol I’m stealing that for if I ever have kids.

“It’s very difficult to know for sure if your kids will bow down to negative social pressure. Proper guidance narrows the chances that things will go sideways, but a guarantee? Nah, no such animal.”

I hope that we just happen to have gathered all the men with flawless NAWALT unicorn daughters in one tiny comment section by sheer good fortune…but realistically ONE of your guys’ daughters is probably going to end up an Emily on a stripper pole lol

“True, that’s a little fantasy thinking right there.”

There probably won’t be an apocalypse in the next 40 years that I’m alive, so who cares if I fish lol…that’s just LARPing Manosphere guys love to get wrapped up in. I’m more concerned with what’s directly quantifiably applicable to improving my life. If you can make an argument for fishing, cool, I’m open to it. But if I’m supposed to do it just because that’s what I’m supposed to do, like I’ve said before, we don’t really buy that these days ’cause that’s the same shit that the FI did to us: “do this without questioning it because we know better than you”. Nope, gimme some reasons and if I don’t have any other way to achieve those same rewards, then I’ll give it a go.

“you’re just describing a CERTAIN VERSION of manliness and treating it like it’s the end-all be-all.”

This. Same with SJF and his one-dimensionality rant. Manliness for me is whatever I say it is lol

“yeah. mainly just teach them to follow their own passions and get a MISSION. that’s about all you need.”

This is what it boils down to to me. And each guy’s passion/mission will be his own. Maybe fishing is involved in that, maybe pickup’s involved in that, who knows, he has to figure it out.

This guy makes obnoxious noises into a webcam while he plays shitty videogames:

“The star has earned an estimated $124 million since 2010. Because he’s Swedish and in a 56% tax bracket, less than half of that goes in his pocket. Still, not too shabby for a 26-year-old. PewDiePie’s net worth is 80 times larger than Bernie Sanders’ $528,014 net worth and 1.4 times larger than Hillary Clinton’s net worth of $31.2 million. PewDiePie’s net worth is 625 times larger than the median American household’s net worth of $68,000.”

He has 46,000,000 people following him and is one of the biggest social influencers on the Internet for the <25yo demographic.

Dude probably hasn't changed oil on a car himself a day in his life lol Welcome to 2016!

on July 19th, 2016 at 1:12 am
Original Link

lol’ing hard at the “no one goes to nightclubs anymore, YaReally’s sample size is just the 15% that go to nightclubs”. How many times do I have to repeat that PUAs run their shit *EVERYWHERE*. You think we don’t have guys in small-ass towns approaching girls in the fucking mall (wtf do you think hank holiday is doing??)? You think we don’t have guys in middle America in your “no nightclubs here” towns gaming groups of girls wherever they are? fucking lol.

We have PUAs/TRP’ers in UMC places, at music festivals, in religious schools, daytime, dinner parties, etc We have guys who GREW UP as part of those crowds and are AT those “UMC only” parties. We have PUAs/TRP’ers who are rich and running in those social circles, we have PUAs/TRP’ers who are at the fancy schools you think nothing happens at, and plowing religious girls who talk out loud about how they want a husband just like Blaximus was fucking them back in the day except now they have even more social pressure normalized.

The nuns in charge of keeping those girls chaste are ALSO probably fucking around behind the scenes half the time. Met an old dude who went to a school with nuns and the sisters/priests were fucking like crazy behind the scenes. AWALT.

Just because I’m a bum doesn’t mean PUAs are all guys like me working their way into these scenes. You think there aren’t UMC religious private social circle guys wanting to get laid looking for help and running game in their UMC religious private social circles? lol Where the fuck am I right now?

The “daddy goggles” shit is hilarious. I was wondering why I struck such a nerve but that makes sense. “Olympic sport of fucking”, “religious UMC girls”, you might as well just say “whores” and “madonnas” to save yourself some typing dude. You’ve just repackaged a Madonna/whore complex in new words.

Blaximus gets it, he has the only realistic parenting perspective I’ve seen this whole fucking thread. Thinking you can control them their entire lives even when they move away from home is like guys who think they can control who their wife is attracted to and trusting that she won’t cheat when she goes on vacation and meets some higher-value more attractive man because “WE HAD A DEAL!!! You’re supposed to be one of the Madonnas!!! Noooooo!!!”

There’s a very clear divide between the guys who ACTUALLY FUCK THESE GIRLS, and the guys who “observe” and “see” things. Wow, you saw some girls talk about wanting a husband in front of you in public. Wow you “see” girls in marriages, well SHIT, they must NEVER fuck! Who cares about divorce rate statistics or deadbedrooms or cuckolding or open hypergamy or swinging or cheating or any of that shit that happens behind the scenes…YOU saw them at the mall buying grapefruit juice together so that is a 1 cock N-count girl devoted in love with her husband who will be with him till he’s 70.

Oh wow, you saw your daughter talking to her friend! WOWWWWW!! Did you go through every inch of her phone reading every txt and FB/Instagram message she’s ever sent? Chick tonight sent me a naked pic, do you think she forwarded it to her dad so her dad would know what she’s up to for when he writes on a forum about his little girl isn’t like those Olympic Level Sluts? You think these UMC girls are going to walk up to the guy dancing with cougars at a bar and go “so hey, just so you know, I’ve had like 3 abortions, so my baby making engine is pretty fucked now, just thought you should know that”. You think girls aren’t fucking *MASTERS* at “confessing” just enough shit to you to make you THINK they’d confess anything to you?? lololol

Girls say the same kind of “I just want a husband” shit (and actually BELIEVE it) that you’re getting a boner over during our cuddle talk after we fuck eachother’s brains out, just like most of Blaximus’ religious girl lays probably hamster rationalized their actions away and believed they were still good girls lol Flip through my phone and you’ll find a vid of a girl’s room with Jesus crosses all over it that I recorded while she was taking a piss after we fucked (because it was hilarious to me at the time)

Props to Anonymous Andy Scray Blax etc for jumping into the shitshow today, I was starting to think I was the only one who saw the fucking unreal cognitive dissonance going on here.

AWALT is Red Pill 101. Sorry if that’s hard to swallow.

“my children have really been going to big music festivals a lot (separately with their girlfriends and boyfriends and larger tribe). Like that Electric Forest and one last weekend somewhere in Pennsylvania. And they seem to have really throw-back Woodstock like experiences”

lololololololololololol did you SERIOUSLY just talk about how nightclubs are all full of slutty whores and you don’t have those around middle America, and then say your innocent princess unicorn angels go to fucking EDM FESTIVALS????

Do you even know what happens at those??? lololol I have a ton of buddies who go to that shit, guys and girls. Hate to break it to you, but your kids (and their boyfriends) do Molly, BARE MINIMUM. Probably shrooms and acid too.

Skip to 14:27 for the community grab bag collection of condoms for anyone to use. And skip to 14:50 where he talks about having to convince people he’s not an undercover police officer. I’m sure they’re all just reading bible verses to eachother, why would they be concerned about police officers? I mean, they couldn’t be doing anything illegal. This is middle-America!!!

God, I hate to even DO this to you, this is like stomping on a puppy dog. You’re so adorably naive. Guess what your daughters are packing or having their friends bring for them on their trips, shit like this to wear:

This lovely video is NSFW and is titled “Man blows cocaine up a womans ass – A woman at the Electric Forest Festival has cocaine blown up her ass!”:


Hope that wasn’t your daughter. Way to control who she hangs out with and her influences 24/7 letting her go to these things.

THAT girl in the video is just a slutty Whore though, she’s not a Good Girl Madonna like yours, yours is probably in the bible-reading church tent behind the “blow coke up a girl’s ass and get fucked up high off Molly and fuck eachother with the abundant condoms laying around” tent because NAWALT!!!!! UNICORN!!! RELIGION!!! DADDY GOGGLES!!!

Show that video and watch some EDM festival vids with the other dads at your next Churchian country club BBQs.

Fucking hilarious. I hope for your own sanity that you’re just trolling at this point lol

on July 19th, 2016 at 1:37 am
Original Link

“Fucked her last week ONS”

Even an ONS wants to feel like she’s not a slut. Maybe MORESO even because she’ll worry more that you think she’s a slut because of how fast she put out. So walk on eggshells a bit between that lay and the next, turn your calibration senses up to maximum till the 2nd or 3rd bang where you two have a better connection.

“Me (m): hey big butt
Her (h): hahahahaha hey (answers immediately BT spike)
M: want to get drinks later tonight”

Fine up to here.

“(an hour goes by so time to up the alpha)”

Wait wut? No, you just move on, because you have 20 other girls sucking your dick to go hang with. Alpha 2.0 yo:

Or maybe give her a phone call and work some game over the phone and THEN move on.

“M: i know you want my dick in your pussy but I want to check out bar x first”

woahhhh!! No need for this lol ESPECIALLY if she’s not responding to your earlier txt. If she’s like “omg I can’t wait to see you I want you so bad” then ya you could say something like this, but this is totally uncalibrated escalation here.

Remember it doesn’t matter if you fucked her in the ass and made her choke on your dick the first night, she’s still going to have potential ASD to deal with until she becomes a regular FB that it’s normal for you guys to txt like this.

“F: hahahahaha
F: omg
F: did you seriously send me that kind of message”

She’s letting you know that you miscalibrated huge and sent her ASD through the roof, gotta chill out now and let her ASD settle down. This is a HUGE red flag that you walked into a minefield.

“M: 9pm
M: dress nice
M: don’t be later”

This COULD maybe work…like if she was just shit-testing you and wasn’t actually serious about being offended, this COULD work out.

“F: i would seriously kill myself if I was a type of girl that would show up to this kind of call:)”

But nope, you now have 3 huge indicators that you’ve blown her ASD through the roof and need to calibrate back: 1) the fact that she was an ONS (so ASD will be higher), 2) the fact that she’s rebuffing your overly sexual shit (so ASD is higher) and 3) her responding extremely negatively after your 9pm attempt (so ASD is off the charts, that smiley face at the end is a “lol you’re fucking done son” smiley face of death)

You could MAYBE recover from this but it would like, take a week of letting her ASD settle and some serious calibration and even THEN who knows, she has plenty of options for dick that don’t make her feel like a slut. It would surprise me if you could recover from how this ended.

“M: don’t masterbate i want you to show up horny like you are now (stupid i know)
M: bar x”

lol oh man. She’s flat-out telling you that you’re making her ASD skyrocket and making her feel like a slut, but then you double-down on it with no calibration to her feelings.

The lesson to take from this is that you gotta calibrate and even a “slut” wants to feel like she’s special. In person this probably would have been hilarious/fun to her, but over txt it’s a lot easier to take offense.

Plowing/escalating via txt is trickier now because girls have such an abundance of guys available that one slight miscalibration and the girl can just rule you out forever and talk to “nicer” guys (who she’ll end up not being sexually attracted to, but she doesn’t know that).

If you had sent the invite and then, when she didn’t reply, either called her or let it hang for a few days/week and tried again with the same non-ASD-triggering initial txt, she’d probably meet up with you and then you could just escalate in person. But she’s basically feeling fully disrespected lol

on July 19th, 2016 at 2:00 am
Original Link

On top of all that, rich UMC kids probably do THE MOST drugs. Because they can afford it, and they can afford to get away with it, and they can afford to give them to their friends, and they’re bored as fuck because they don’t have to struggle as hard to get by in life, and they feel more pressure by their family’s to maintain a good image that feels good to rebel against (again the horny repressed catholic schoolgirl stereotype exists for a reason, ask Blaximus).

Ya poor people do drugs, but if you don’t think UMC kids are doing Molly, coke, shrooms, acid, etc ESPECIALLY at EDM festivals, just because they go to a private school or go to church on sundays or don’t live near a nightclub, you’re living in a fucking fantasy world lol Like people who haven’t partied with doctors lawyers etc and think half the <30yo doctors that see them aren't hungover as fuck from the night before because "that would be unprofessional and a doctor is a professional person" lol

Blue Pill Frame

Original Link

via Rational Male

on July 2nd, 2016 at 12:22 pm
Original Link

Strongest frame always wins. Russell Brand sucks everyone into his frame wherever he goes because he has an insanely strong frame. Everyone reacts to Russell Brand. Girls have stronger frames than guys by FAR, but it’s because guys’ frames have been battered down by their FI conditioning. The chart from the weakest frame to the strongest frames would basically be 90% of men, then 90% of women, then another 5% of men, then a huge gap, then the other 10% of women, then a huuuuuuge gap, and then the other 5% of men. Going out and testing your frame regularly helps put you in that 10% of men.

It’s not really related to your success with women. I’ve met players, Naturals, red pill guys, etc with crazy N-counts who still fall into full Blue Pill mindsets when they find their Madonna, or who simply have frames that are just stronger than most women/men, but are still easy to plow through when you’re in that top 5%.

And you can have a strong frame in certain categories and a weak frame in others. You can be an army badass with massively strong frames around most of your life, but still have a weak fragile frame actually interacting with women or AMOGs when women are around, which is why we push guys into the field to forge their frames solid. You can’t think and pontificate your way into a strong frame sitting in your computer chair. You have to test it and have it shaken and learn to hold it, over and over, until you don’t flinch. Just like learning not to flinch and freeze up in boxing by getting in the ring and sparring…jumping rope and visualizing punches won’t make you not flinch.

@Wild Man
“But I think it could be much better said like this: “YaReally seems to believe change comes from some process of externalization, and while it might start there, real change comes through internalization. If it doesn’t challenge you it doesn’t change you.””

Externalization CAUSES you to change your internals. That’s what you don’t get, because you don’t push guys through changing their externals and watch this happen. A man is challenging fuck all sitting in his armchair thinking up what he’d do in hypotheticals.

Don’t worry so much about making more of a huge initial spike. You’re already making initial spikes as it is, but regardless of how big the spikes are, they don’t last. Think of them like throwing a log on the fire. Even if you throw a bigass log, it’s still going to burn down it’ll just take a bit longer. The key is to keep throwing spikes in there when the fire starts dying. When I’m walking with a girl from the bar to my apartment, I don’t let things just go to silence and chill and die down, I’ll keep spiking her Buying Temp with little teases and callbacks. They won’t be as frequent or huge as when I first approached, they just keep the fire going and keep her rational mind from letting the ASD in.

What you’re doing is throwing a bunch of logs on the fire and then going to sleep and waking up to cold ashes. When you were in your prime, she might throw some logs on the fire FOR you, but being out of your prime and with the way culture has shifted etc, you want to babysit her state a bit more.

If you watch some infield pull vids of Tyler/Julien you’ll see that even when they’re pulling the girl they’ll keep teasing her and spiking her temp along the way.

From around 13:15 this vid is basically a long-ass pull example:

Note how he’s always ordering, always leading, always coming up with solutions to handle whatever her objections are (if he can’t just plow through them with dominance), he has to deal with multiple state interrupts that could sabotage everything but he just keeps his cool and adapts to each situation until they’re back at the hotel.

And throughout it he’s spiking her Buying Temp, using call-back humor, passing shit-tests, qualifying her, saying things to slightly piss her off then smoothing it over (giving her the full range of emotions), etc

What you’re doing is the initial work and then waiting for her to take the reins and lead the horse to the destination, and she might’ve when you were in your prime with all your social proof and massively confident subcomms and the smell of poon hanging off you 24/7 etc

Shorter faster example:

When he steals the girl from his student near the start of the video (because his student isn’t listening to his instructions to lead her for the pull instead of going for the number, to protect his ego from potential rejection), note how he keeps spiking her Buying Temp as they walk up the street. The girl doesn’t even really think about where they’re going because she’s having fun.

on July 2nd, 2016 at 12:49 pm
Original Link

“What is this callback humor you speak of?”

When you set up an in-joke with a girl and then call-back to it later to spike her Buying Temp.

Meanwhile in Blue Pill world:

“You’re Not “Awkward” With Women. You’re Just Creepy”, an article to remind shy introverted boys to never feel entitled enough to DARE talk to a woman:

Written by a man who, well, you can read all about him for yourself lol

And in other news, Mattress Girl has been given the Woman of Courage award by NOW for making up a false rape accusation and ruining a man’s life putting him through years of psychological hell because he didn’t handle Buyer’s Remorse well:

The good news is people are making sure people know she’s full of shit. The bad news is this will, of course, be spun as her being harrassed by misogynistic MRA woman-haters as she sets up her Patreon fund for all the White Knights like the above article’s author to donate to.

Gonna be an uphill battle to save men from the world that’s evolving out there.

on July 2nd, 2016 at 3:25 pm
Original Link

@hank holiday
“You guys need to NOT comment on guys new to game. You two are a fucking train wreck.”


“I have never had a gf. Never kissed a girl. Never touched a girl. Basically all this stuff it new to me. So i am doing these things for the first time, and its usually in an open venue, in front of lots people.”

Both of those guys have more of a Natural mindset (regardless of how they got there) so it’s harder to relate to your situation because you’re just frustrating…like “just DO it man!!” But I remember that stage clearly and a lot of my game is still (purposely) conscious infield, that’s why I’m focusing more on getting you to sharpen the game aspect more than the actually-get-laid aspect right now. ’cause you’ll get to a real city at some point and then you’ll already have solid game structure to start from.

Like, you could put me in a room full of nothing but 500lbs whales and I’m not gonna fuck them, but I can practice all SORTS of game on them. Jealousy plotlines, merging sets, qualifying them, instigating and passing shit-tests, laser eye-contact and cutting space to build sexual tension, dealing with bad state, purposely blowing the set to try to recover, seeing what I can get them to do for me, push/pull, leading, building deep rapport, etc etc And if there’s dudes there even better, tons of AMOG and rapport-building and networking and shit to practice.

And all of those skills are the same skills I’m going to use when I’m put in a room with a bunch of hot girls…there’d be an adjustment as the shellshock of engaging actual hot girls instead of 500lbs whales hits me at first, but that won’t take long to push through when most of my game is already running on auto-pilot from gaming the whale pool.

“Operative thing here was — tired, out of state, negative attitude. I was doing the best I could to just stick around and keep at it.”

All good man. You’re doing what you can with your situation and you’re doing a helluva lot more than 99% of guys would do in your situation. 99% of guys would make victim excuses to just not go out at all and complain and wait until the day they’re in a big city to even START learning the skillset. And you’re taking way more action infield than I did even though I started out in a big city with access to girls…like I spent more time infield choding around scared to talk to anyone my first year as a newbie than you do in your shitty city/venues. I went OUT a lot but that doesn’t mean I was tearing up 50 sets a night every night lol I can’t even count the number of nights I went out and didn’t open a single set or maybe half-ass opened one set, and went home kicking myself feeling like a piece of shit loser lol

This is a slow process. This shit can take years to get down solid. It’s worth it in the long-run and the effects spill over into the rest of your life, but depending on your situation the start can be rough and slow. That’s why I’m pushing you to focus on networking and dropping comments about having to drive up to guys in the big city etc, ’cause I’m looking for ways to get you out of that shitty city (or find you a ride to split or a place to crash etc) to where you’ll have more opportunity and enjoy the process more.

Personally I would rather work as a janitor at a McDonald’s making just enough to afford rent/food in some tiny cheap apartment sleeping on a mattress on the ground, than live in a city with so few options. Like I don’t know if you’re holding out for a certain type of job/career (and don’t tell us details ’cause privacy and all that) or applying for just anything right now, but if you’re holding out definitely consider taking some bullshit job in the big city that can cover rent/food. You can keep applying for a better job from there, but at least day to day you’d be in a better situation than now.

Otherwise buckle in for the long haul and focus on the stuff you CAN practice infield, like you’re doing. And don’t sweat not fucking gross 4s lol There’s no way you’re going to live where you live for the rest of your life, at SOME POINT you’re going to find a way to get the fuck out of there to a better city and THEN I’ll hassle you to bang a decent-enough 6. And when you DO run into the occasional 7 there, Field Report that shit up if it doesn’t lead to a lay and we’ll figure out where to tighten your game up.

“But seeing things for the first times makes it very unlikely I will be able to come up with something fast.”

Don’t sweat it, this is just the process of learning the game. I liken it to trying to chase after someone riding their bike. At first you’re only gonna keep pace with them for a few steps and then lose it, then the next time you’re gonna run with them a bit longer before they leave you in the dust, then you might keep pace with them for a block before you run out of steam and watch them zoom off, etc etc but over time you get further and further and sooner or later they’re gonna run out of steam before you do lol

“But I was very much in state.”

State, as you’re finding out, makes a HUGE difference. Things you can get away with in state fall flat out of state and things that seem like they’d never work out of state fly like mad in state. Hitting state is when you’re basically unstifled and radiating good subcomms, which is why I always stress the subcomms making the difference stuff.

Tyler has a lot of stuff on getting into state (like his Six Steps vids) because he has to do it robotically/systematically just ’cause of how his brain works and the amount of mind-numbing business-end work he does outside of pickup (and then has to go perform insane feats for some guy who paid thousands for a bootcamp, no pressure lol, so he HAD to come up with ways to force himself into state).

But it’s VERY hard to do when there are basically no girls around to build momentum off, or, even if you can build momentum, no girls you’re into to even DO anything with that momentum. Once you’re in a better location with more girls, you’ll be able to tear shit up left and right.

“and I KNOW scray was fucking shit when he got started lol, since I read those FRs awhile back.”

lolol Scray turned into way more of a Natural than I was expecting from his first posts. But ya, he needed to go through a lot of shit to get there. Everyone does. And most people have a much better setup than you (like scribbler with his coffee shop full of cuties, scray with his social circles that hit up big city venues etc) This is all just the process. Location is your biggest issue right now, but the fact that you’re not letting it hold you back from even going out to TRY is part of why I look forward to your FRs and watching your progress.

’cause you’re showing more dedication to the skillset (whether it’s out of boredom or enthusiasm, when you’re talking to actual HOT girls it’ll turn INTO enthusiasm) than most newbies who look for any excuse NOT to go out and try…”ohhh, my haircut isn’t nice, I don’t want to go out to that mall full of hot girls that hank holiday would KILL to have access to” “ohhh the weather is kind of cloudy, I don’t want to go to that nightclub 10 minutes away that has 300 hot girls in it that hank holiday would drag himself through waist-deep snow to get to” lol like I don’t care why you’re taking action, the action you’re taking is going to make you fucking GOOD at this shit when you’re finally let loose in a real city.

“That’s TECHNICALLY true, and good overall advice, but especially for not saying much, it only works if you have great subcomms. Otherwise, you are going to have to demonstrate value another way to get her into you.”

Right. Once you GET solid subcomms it becomes harder to relate to guys who don’t have good subcomms…because what they’re saying IS true, you DO “just go for it” and “just do it” and “don’t worry about what you say” etc. But the process to get from near-virgin newbie territory to being able to “just go for it” can be a long process and there are reference experiences you’ll need to gain that help your subcomms and mental states and make “just be yourself” suddenly become good advice instead of frustrating fluff.

Like ultimately pickup DOES come down to “just be yourself” when you come full-circle. It’s just that when you’re starting out that shit doesn’t mean ANYTHING helpful because “yourself” is a fucked up socially conditioned version of yourself, not your ACTUAL self that shines through when you’re in state lol The REAL you is you when you’re in state. THAT’S hank holiday. The guy between moments of being in state is the social conditioned hank holiday. Right now Scray comes off like he pretty much lives and breathes being in state, which is awesome for him and I’m happy as fuck to see that, but it makes it harder to give relatable advice to guys still struggling.

On top of that some guys relate more to the drill sergeant “c’mon you pussy DO IT” pushing than the logical “well, here’s the reasons it’s a good idea to do it, but you decide what you want to do with that” coaching. I hate the drill sergeant stuff personally, it just gets my back up and makes me want to do the opposite of whatever they’re telling me, out of rebellious instinct. But a LOT of guys relate to the drill sergeant style and it’s faster to teach that way VS explain everything step by step and slowly coach a guy through it.

“Wouldn’t a woman usually defer to a man who verbally defeats her time and time again, rationalizing it as ‘I’m with him, so it’s natural he’s better than me’?”

This is most of the girls that fall in love with me lol They spend enough time around me and I always one-up them and because of solipsism and social validation they’re fed, that THEY’RE the smartest person in the world, so when I out-wit them verbally or present something that mindfucks them or clarifies some shit that confused them, they assume that since they’re the smartest person in the world and run circles around every other dude who falls into their frame and lets them always be right, but they can’t seem to get one over on ME, then I must be the SUPER smartest person in the world lol

I’m not even doing anything amazing. I just have solid improv skills and “always have a better answer” from going out a lot and being shit-tested a ton and developing a strong frame in conversations etc. Craig Ferguson is a good example of always having better verbals/social calibration than the girls. Pretty much every hot actress on his show falls for him during their interviews because he’s always just slightly more clever than them.

It’s not NECESSARY at all though. Like, you don’t NEED to have high-level verbals to get Attraction. But it does cause a snowball hamster rationalization effect in girls’ minds that help trigger Hypergamy.

“Okay. do it some more. Do it until you rewire your thoughts to not react the way you do to the chicks who are lower value and give you a hard time. ”

lol he IS man. It’s just a slow process. Hank is literally the only one who’s been consistently doing up Field Reports here though, like every thread I see multiple FRs from him. Dude is hitting the pavement out there as much as he can.

“Yes with chicks who speak-a-da english not so good you need to ROLL OFF the verbals and use the > 90% of communication that isn’t verbal to communicate the message. most of your communication is probably verbal and you probably are lacking in the other areas — -which is fine, that’s typical of guys who don’t have experience.”

This. I LOVE verbals so I hate ESL gaming lol But when you run into ESL or complete other languages or nightclubs too loud to talk in etc, you gotta have them subcomms on lockdown.

@Blaximus @hank holiday
“I think it’s absolutely key that you stood up for yourself and reminded all of us that would attempt to offer any help, of just where you are and what the situation is when you go out.”

This. Their advice could have been delivered in a less “tough love” way more calibrated to your situation/struggles, it’s fair to point that out and say lay off a bit. I’ve been following your posts for a while now and I’ve known guys in similar shitty location situations so I’m calibrating what I say to you to be more of a casual coaching thing.

The reality is you’re making progress in pretty much every Field Report. Like every FR has some new epiphany or analysis or interaction surprise or sticking point you bump into etc. That’s all good shit, that’s the process right there.

“Just remember, everyone here is on your side in this. Everyone has different personalities so appreciate this.”

lol ya, they ARE trying to help. But it’s also fair to say like “look I don’t respond well to that kind of coaching, this shit is hard enough as it is without getting made fun of for not being a pro already, that kind of shit is just fucking me up more” and hoping they can calibrate a bit to that.

I mean, this is all part of learning where your boundaries are and getting used to enforcing them etc Blaximus might not be able to consciously describe all the dynamics BEHIND that, but he can spot the overall jist of it and respects it because he “just gets” male interaction as a Natural alpha dude who’s probably seen a lot of guys learn to stand up for their boundaries as they grow.

“Constructive criticism from people that give a shit about a ” name on a screen ” ( h/t YaReally ) is some golden shit man.”

lol nothing against any of you when I call you that. It’s just better for me to stay as neutral as possible when I’m laying down brain-dumps on pickup topics. If I had a bunch of “but I LIKE this guy, I don’t want to call him out on this inaccurate shit” or “fuck this guy, no matter what he says I’m going to disagree with him because he’s an asshole” etc drama rattling around in my head it might eventually taint the advice I give and then it’s off into the hugbox and clique mentality we go.

I’ll call out Rollo, Blaximus, Scray, etc if they say something that doesn’t align with the field and/or that I think will hold men back, but at the same time I’ll give props to Fleezer, gb_hill, hell even Roosh himself, if what they’re saying aligns with the field and/or I think it’ll help men. Zero fucks given, my focus is an accurate knowledge-base because that knowledge-base is going to live on longer than any of us or our squabbles/friendships. Some newbie AFC is going to be reading this in some obscure internet archive in 3016 and whether we’re BFFs or not isn’t going to matter to him, what’s going to matter is accurately understanding how to pass a shit-test lol

“Fwiw, I admire that you are being active. I read everything you type.”

Ditto. I don’t always have time to reply to each Field Report but I read them all and try to drop in notes when you bump into notable infield events.

Also Scray’s breakdown he just posted of 90/10 giving value is solid. BUT if you’re a guy who likes a lot of verbal wordplay and subtle sarcasm/innuendo/frame-reversal (acting like old guys check you out stealing the frame of a hot girl etc) (like it sounds like hank is, I know I’m that way), them ESL chicks will fuck all that shit up…and then YOU feel dumb because what you said was hilarious/gold but you know THEY don’t get it and think you’re retarded and there goes the self-conscious spiral lol ESL convos are torture to me.

“Julian vid showed the woman throwing shit tests frequently because Julian’s frame wasn’t boss level and the woman had doubts about his ability to control things and provide a good outcome.”

Ya it’s funny because Julien’s game isn’t even that good in his Shift infields. A lot of it is uncalibrated and reactive. And yet he’s still pulling like crazy because he’s still following an overall strategy that says “lead her out of the club, now lead her up the street, now lead her into a cab, now squash her “I’m not going to your afterparty” shit-tests” etc etc. For all the fight that girl put up, after the lay her hamster rationalizes that she’s happy you plowed and starts to chase you because her hamster has to find ways to rationalize why she slept with you lol

A girl like that has a strong frame too, which is why it’s a good example. Like, when she stops to call her frame and gets all serious tone about it, no one is plowing THAT frame over. But she’s a girl with a shitload of male attention and orbiters feeding into her frame since she was a kid, whereas Julien is a guy who’s just learned to even HAVE a solid frame in his 20s.

Most girls won’t put up that kind of massive testing, but she’s doing it because she WANTS him to pass all the tests, ultimately. She’s just skeptical that he CAN because he slips up here and there. IN the club, in the initial interaction where he carried her from the dance floor to the back room and passed all her tests, he was slaying it and she thought he was amazing (“…… is that really your name?” after he just holds the silence leaning back is the point where she was fully won over). But once he went for the actual pull, he got more outcome dependent and reactive. I’m sure having a camera on you affects your outcome dependence and shit on top of it all, but like, the way she treated him inside the club VS outside has clear differences and it’s because INSIDE the club his frame was rock solid.

“Julian did a masterful job of dealing with the cameraman.”

That blew my mind lol And yet, from some of the stuff I’ve gotten away with infield I could see pulling that off. THAT’S a good example of frame control. Where he just dominates her frame about the guy and makes her disregard him and changes subjects and she follows his frame that the guy is just some random creeper instead of logically digging for more information on the weird situation.

“What are C&F routines? I’m sure I’m the only dummy here who has that question, it being so obvious and all, lol.”

Can’t tell if you’re trolling now lol You know how to GoogleπŸ˜‰

on July 3rd, 2016 at 10:47 am
Original Link

@scray @hank holiday
“Like, I just remember what helped me. It wasn’t until I started focusing on my mindset that I could even really fully appreciate all the tactics you were giving me. ”

Ya but I could have told you on day one “just give value dude” and it wouldn’t have helped. You have to go through that awkward stage of trying routines and shit before advice like that even makes sense. When you’re a newbie you don’t even know what value IS or what value you HAVE or what value people can GET from interacting with you because you have no frame of reference. Dude is giving value in his openers, he’s getting good reactions from girls and guys and pretty much everyone he interacts with loves him giving him drinks and iois and shit. He’s not leading that anywhere, but like, he’s not leeching value off the people he’s engaging with.

You, as you are NOW, understand how much value you have to offer. *I* could see how much value you have to offer early on, but it doesn’t matter what I can see, what matters is what you can see. *I* could see how much value scribblerg had to offer early on, but he felt like he had none to offer a hot young girl. A newbie generally doesn’t KNOW he has value and has dealt with society telling him the exact opposite message most of his life…he has to go out and get those little feel-good “hey, she laughed when I said this! I have the ability to make a girl laugh and make people’s day better just by talking to them!!” moments first. That’s the stage hank is in right now. Dude doesn’t even have reference of having value to a girlfriend or anything yet and he doesn’t have a bunch of bro’s pumping him up, he’s just a dude out there in a shitty city trying to do what he can.

It’s not that he can’t go faster, it’s just that “JUST BE IN A GOOD MOOD YOU FUCKIN MORON HOW COME YOU DON’T KNOW THIS SHIT I’VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 5 YEARS AND I WOULD JUST GRAB HER ASS AND BE LIKE YO BITCH SUCK MY DICK” clearly isn’t helping lol He’ll get there and he’ll go “oh I get what those guys were saying” down the road, but like, have some fuckin patience for a newb who’s already putting in more effort than most newbies and is learning what state even IS and how to manage it and is stuck wandering around alone stone cold sober with 2 hour gaps between HB5s he can find to even open in his city…he’s not out tearing up a nightclub full of dozens of hotties with 10 of his buddies pumping his state. He doesn’t have 40 years of tearing shit up slaying pussy under his belt.

“He was so in his head and afraid to pull the trigger and take back his manhood that all his interactions were just permeated by that bullshit mindset. and look at him now, totally let go of the baggage from his younger self.”

Same situ there. Scribbler had to gather a bunch of “you’re NOT a creepy old man” reference experiences before he even began to understand that he still has value to offer girls. Dude was a fucking wreck at first who didn’t believe he had any value to them.

I get it, it’s frustrating to watch a newbie go through the slow initial stages when you’ve finally got the secrets all figured out. It’s like “just catch up to me, wtf!!” But you guys gotta put yourself in the dude’s shoes in terms of relating to him as teachers.

Dude doesn’t come off ego-invested to me and butthurt about getting advice/critiques at ALL…you guys come off uncalibrated as fuck lol It’s like watching a little league kid’s dad think the solution to his son not hitting homeruns when he shouts at him, is to shout LOUDER lol Calibrate dat shit if you want the guy to learn. Walk him through what giving value IS, give him some examples, give him some routines, give him some exercises, help him understand that shit, relate to the logistical nightmare situation he’s working with.

I mean, you don’t HAVE to, but he’s just going to go “fuck it, this is too much to get a grasp on, I give up” and bail. And maybe scribblerg and Sentient in their “fuck all the weak men” rant modes would just go “good then give up who cares you pussy” but I’d rather not see a guy bail on something he’s already ahead of other newbies at that’ll help fix his life.

on July 3rd, 2016 at 11:23 am
Original Link

Too cryptic, whatever relevance that quote has went over my head lol

on July 4th, 2016 at 5:26 am
Original Link

@scray @hank
“if i went through all these FRs I bet I’d find similar stuff wrt the DQ’ing and DLV’ing (but maybe not!) because the one example IRL i have from you is with the ESL chick”

lol tbh I think that’s the problem and where the disconnect is. You really DO need to go through his FRs and read his history ’cause that ESL set was the anomaly not his average set. Like I’m trying to figure out what you have against his opener which has blown girl after girl wide open, but if you’re just looking at the ESL set then ya it seems like it’s not working. THAT set was the outlier lol Same with his situation etc, he’s not going out and not approaching, he literally lives in an area where there’s just fuck all around to approach, that’s why I keep stressing he’s not rolling into a nightclub full of 200 hotties with 5 of his buddies going “oh wahhh I’m out of state” and being a crybaby, he’s literally stuck wandering around bored as fuck for multiple hours in a shitty city trying to find anything to open. That’s a valid reason to not be prepared to whip out brilliant shit off the hello when he does finally stumble into a girl.

It doesn’t mean he can’t work on it but I think you gotta read his previous FRs and see the situation he’s dealing with and the reaction he’s gotten from people besides this retarded ESL girl that didn’t understand what he’s saying. He’s already looking at ways to keep himself in a good state (music etc) and has talked about it in his previous FRs but like, I can’t be the only one that’s tried to sarge a dead city before where you have to walk around for hours to find a girl, that shit is a huge mood killer and frustrating.

His opener is fine, no hate or anything but the only difference between his opener and your example is that yours is amusing to YOU lol His hair opener is amusing to him and that’s why it’s gotten good reactions from like 90% of girls. He just isn’t taking it anywhere, which is where what you’re saying IS totally relevant and valid. Like the roleplaying into future projection us VS the world etc stuff IS key shit he needs to add, but he doesn’t need to throw away openers that are self-amusing to him to do that, he can just add it TO his opener.

Like here’s a few ways off the top of my head to transition from his hair opener to the same place your watch/camping example gets to:

“You’re stealing my look”
“You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?”

Push/pull and some future projection:
“You’re stealing my look”
“It’s never going to work out between us. Our babies would look like clowns (if the hair similarity is curly, sasquatches if it’s just that you have long hair, I don’t really know HOW your hair is similar to all these black chicks lol)”
“You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?”

Push/pull and qualifying her:
“You’re stealing my look”
“We’re going to have to stay on opposite sides of the room or people will think we’re twins”
“We’ll tell them you just have a really deep tan.”
“And weird them out when we make out.”
“You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?”

“You’re stealing my look”
“You must be my stalker.”
“I saw you outside my window this morning, watching me do my hair and taking notes.”
“That’s why I left the curtains open after my shower last night. Hope you enjoyed the show.”
“You’re cute for a stalker, what’s your name?”

Gay shit:
“You’re stealing my look”
“I hope you haven’t been hit on by as many creepy old dudes as I have with this hair.”
“It’s either my hair or my ass getting all the attention, what do you think?”
“lol (whatever she says)”
“Now you’re just objectifying me.”
“lol what!! but you said–”
“I feel like a piece of meat.”
“lol omg”
“You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?”

Assuming attraction:
“You’re stealing my look”
“lol (some kind of positive response)”
“It’s too soon for you to be this in love with me.”
“lol omg”
“You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?”

Group theory:
“You’re stealing my look”
“Can you (to her friends) tell us apart when we stand next to eachother like this? We must look like twins.”
“(ignore her and talk to her friend about her) Does she always look like this? Because if we’re going to be seen in public together one of us is going to have to shave their head and it’s not gonna be me.”
“lol omg”
“Calm down, you’re going to draw attention to us and we haven’t shaved your head yet.”
“(to her friend) I’m suspicious of her now. Is she always like this?”
“You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?”

etc etc etc and then transition from there with A1-A3 handled. Note that all of these DHV and then move the interaction forward when she’s giving A2…like they’re not just making small-talk, they’re pro-actively getting to the same “You’re cute for a thief, what’s your name?” A3 stage where, ideally, he would also have some routines for that stage about like, making fun of her name or accusing her of giving you a fake name, whatever, qualifying her and putting the interaction solidly into A3 where, ideally, he would also have some routines for going from A3 to the close. Like do some basic rapport/comfort so she feels special then push for the instadate, and if she can’t instadate the after-she-gets-off-shift date, and if she can’t do that, time bridge for a solid number close to hang out that night or the next day (or within a few days, soon as possible basically).

These are all just off the top of my head. The opener itself is fine, the gay shit is fine, some random ESL girl didn’t get it who cares most of the time it hits solid in his FRs. It’s funny to HIM which is the important part. *I* would never use it, I would use something that’s self-amusing to ME, but that’s just calibrating to your own sense of humor.

The key is taking it somewhere, which is what you’re describing with the camping stuff, leading it toward roleplaying etc

I can’t see any reason for him to get rid of his stuff that makes him laugh when it’s been working on pretty much every set but the ESL girl who didn’t even understand what he was saying lol

Not discounting your advice, just pointing out that your camping thing is self-amusing to YOU so it’s “the shit” in your mind, but his style of humor is fine, gay jokes and self-depreciation and all, he can tailor his routine stack to his sense of humor (which he’s trying to learn to do if you follow his FRs) he just needs to understand the underlying structure of WHY your camping example works and how it’s leading things forward/deeper. It’s the structure that’s important, not the words. Right now his structure is to pop off the first bit solid but then let it fizzle out taking his foot off the gas instead of driving that car through the wall.

That’s why I’m stressing the structure. Like the “old guys hitting on me because of my ass” stuff is funny shit, I say stuff like that (reversing the frame as if I’m a hot girl and showing I understand their world while also differentiating myself FROM those guys, like, it’s a solid routine), but if you don’t have a way to transition it toward the goal, you’re just running a sideways interaction not taking it anywhere (foot off the gas). So you want to think like “okay, so how do I transition from this to qualifying her? And if she qualifies her how do I reward her in a way that leads into C1?”

Like say you make her twerk for you (or whatever lol) and she does, you can either tell her it was terrible to disqualify her and give her another hoop to jump through to qualify herself again if you want to build more attraction, or if she’s having fun skip that and just let her pass with something like “lol alright I can’t deny that was decent. It’s funny ’cause when I saw you you looked so stuck up and boring, I almost didn’t say hi ’cause I was like this chick has resting bitch face…but now you’re twerking in the middle of the mall like a fucking weirdo lol (basically letting her know she overcame your qualifications, for something other than her looks) You’re fun, what are you up to right now? (or when are you done your shift if she’s working) Ya, we’re gonna grab a drink, there’s a place up the street. But no twerking on the bar. (some call-back humor to release the pressure of pitching the instadate)”

The point is you’re taking it somewhere (watching for those windows like pumping a spike when you get a positive response, watching for her first voluntary ioi asking you something about yourself, qualifying her so that she feels she’s earned your interest, and leading to the actual hangout…VS just hanging out basking in the validation)

@The Awakened One
“Been reading up on sub comms and watching the Josh the matador video from Keys to the VIP from your comment about writing pages of text from a few seconds of video:”

That’s my favorite one because the dude is such a traditionally good-looking Chad Thundercock to his core that you can tell who understands game and who doesn’t by how they respond to seeing the video. The guys who don’t really get it yet will focus on his looks and dude-bro jock-ness and learn nothing from the episode…I even know guys who will actively NOT watch the episode or hate watching it because it makes them feel insecure because he’s getting girls so easily “’cause of his looks”.

But the guys who understand subcomms will see all the little subtle things he’s doing that are what actually cause the good reactions. My best wingman was a dude who was super good-looking and I was blind to subcomms too until I learned to see all the little things he was actually doing that are proper subcomms and competing with him and seeing that when I did those same subcomms but slightly better I was getting the attention over him regardless of him have a huge looks & height advantage. But every normal Blue Pill guy who rolled out with us would cry to me about how it’s so easy for him because of his looks, ’cause they couldn’t see all the other shit he was doing and what a learning opportunity was sitting right in front of them.

Like the girl who checks him out. 1) she’s not some hottie (like I say, you’ll get aggressive 6s feeling your biceps, who cares lol) and 2) she turns away from him…According to TRP/Manosphere, that girl shouldn’t turn away she should just instantly go “OMG YOU’RE SO SEXY CAN I FEEL YOUR MUSCLES?!?!!” and spread her legs. But even looking like him, and even being that much better looking than her, and even getting that blatant free gimme ioi from her, he STILL has to open. And opening is where you demonstrate your value (or lack of value, like the gay singing buff guys or that Canadian guy in that movie clip someone linked last thread where the girls just laugh once he starts talking)…so in the end you STILL have to open and DHV if you want your choice of girls or the hotter girls. So why not focus on learning to do THAT well instead of worrying about your biceps.

Also his open itself is full of DHVs: he’s walking into another dude’s set, he leaves a big pause between “your shoes………” like he just expects her to want to hear the rest. He doesn’t lean in in a supplicative way to hear what she says, he leans in like he’s comfortable invading her space to talk in her ears. Strong breaking rapport tonality “How ya doin.” instead of seeking rapport tonality “Hey? How’s it going??:) :)” Rock solid body language even as he approaches. Keeps leaning back whenever he’s not talking. Then all sorts of great calibration with insulting her but self-depreciating to take the sting off it. Going for that girl when the other one is the one that wanted him instead of taking the easy lay-up girl who’s shooting him iois (creating a jealousy plotline and making this girl feel like she’s won a prize since her friend wanted him). Just rock solid game from this dude, lots of it probably accidental/unconscious and going on instinct/experience.

The problem with most guys is they think EVERY jacked dude is Josh and just let him have their girls. They don’t get how fucking rare this guy is lol Like look at the other big jacked dude in that set, he doesn’t even TRY to compete he just lets Josh come in and take his girls, he just accepts his role as the lower value guy.

And even THEN, if we watched footage of Josh for a few months we would see blind spots in his game because Naturals always have blind spots since they learned by trial and error and pick up good and bad habits etc.

“Josh senses the situation but never acknowledges him though and moves back toward his target. AMOG is now in reaction mood watching him. Green dress chick continues to watch Josh and gives off another IOI as she brushes her hair. This approach is a major warm approach as BT spikes are occurring even before he approaches her (DHV). Which is why she qualifies after he devalidates her.”

Yup. But 99% of guys watching that will just see “He just went up to a random girl and GOT her, I knew looks mattered” and miss all the little dynamics that made that a warm approach and all the little ways his value was being demonstrated in those first split seconds even right before he approached. And a lot of times guys like that are just REALLY tuned to those free gimme iois and pounce on them when they see them…they don’t even realize it’s a warm approach at that point. That’s why you’ll often find Naturals can’t open a girl unless they get some ioi from her first (like receptive eye-contact). VS a legit cold approach where the girl doesn’t know you even really exist.

Thing is either way of doing it is fine, like it’s no big deal…a lot of Mystery Method is based around DHV’ing to the entire room (befriending staff and making yourself seen and playing girls off eachother and peacocking etc) and making the entire room into one big huge room full of warm approaches.

And with regards to the looks stuff, that’s why I say the free gimme iois don’t matter. Tyler, scray, myself, etc can all GET the same free gimme ioi from girls that Josh got from that chick, through dozens of different ways of DHVing that can be learned and applied in a weekend instead of needing a year hitting the gym trying not to accidentally attach your self-worth to your looks when you’re in the gym trying to get jacked to get iois from girls lol I can take a random guy out and just tell him “talk to this girl, now talk to this girl beside her and face your back to this other girl” and get him the same meaningless warm approach gimme ioi Josh got that everyone shits themselves over lol

Like Max just put up a solid hour long vid with tons of bootcamp footage and focusing on the basics (“Natural Game” just = good internals and good subcomms, he’s still executing game just not thinking about it as consciously):

At 25:25 this girl completely snubs him (oh no, a “NO” girl!!! Run away!!!!!!) but he just plows her frame and she ends up staying with them most of the night and I think going home with a student. But, but, he didn’t have free gimme IOIs!!!!

But the best example is this sequence of events:

When when he’s talking to that girl, at 27:50, he leads her off into isolation (watch the blonde behind them at 28:03, grinding with a big jacked dude…but then watch at 28:08…no more jacked guy and she’s got her eyes locked on Max watching him walk off with a girl wondering who he is).

He leaves her to get a lighter for her, but does he just ask some random dude for it? No, he asks a dude with a cute girl (aka mixed set). Look at his body language and how loud and unstifled his voice is etc etc center of attention, plus he’s just walked this other girl past them into that corner so he has preselection.

Look at the blonde light up as he asks for a lighter, he doesn’t even look at her, he KNOWS she’s giving him free gimme ioi’s (BUT WUT?? He doesn’t look like Josh!!! HOW CAN SHE FREE GIMME IOI??) but knows to ignore her and stick to his current “purpose”. Again back to the girl, then back to return the lighter without engaging her.

And what happens? She comes over to open him. And kisses his hand because she’s so attracted. Max looks like a homeless man off the street and doesn’t have any kind of James Bond Clint Eastwood manliness to him.

Then he knows to lean back and lock-in (classic MM) so it looks like she’s hitting on him, and he picks a spot where the first girl will see it. He qualifies her hard and she wants his validation so bad that she’s even writing down “Eckhart Tolle” to read.

Meanwhile he’s like half a foot shorter than her. The top of his head is in line with her nose lol

At 30:10 a fatty gives him a free gimme ioi, OBOY! lol But he uses it to pull in a different girl to save him because he’s playing chess strategies. Look at how relaxed his body language is when he puts his hand out for the girl to take, like he just expects her to take it.

At 33:00 he just keeps fucking with this girl and doing push/pull and backturns and shit on her, taking away his validation, and she reacts like clockwork each time.

At 42:40 he completely mindfucks an old married chick who clearly wants his dick. She’s trying to fuck him because her husband is at a bachelor party (HIM being around strippers is cheating and disrespectful, but her talking about Max’s dick and wanting to fuck him ISN’T…girl logic lol) and he calls her out on it to the point where she HATES him, but then he just smooths it over again at the very end and she loves him again.

Anyway, it’s a good clip and a good example of what pickup being FUN looks like. Look how much fun Max and his students have over this hour of infield footage (it’s spliced in all throughout and what he’s talking about between infield footage is solid stuff, so I recommend watching it in its entirety).

You’re just fucking around and having fun interactions and when you find the girl you want you escalate things properly to sex (most of those girls wouldn’t be hard to turn into lays, but he has to focus on the guys that paid for his bootcamp), but like, a lot of the night out is just having a good time and spreading value. A lot of guys would look at this and be like “wtf this is such a waste of time” because they view pickup as work or a grind and they hate nighttime environments with all these “distractions” and “chaos” and “AMOGs” wah wah wahhhhh and basically hate interacting with people beyond what they’re forced to do to get laid because they don’t learn the skills to make all of this fun and handle all of this shit lol It’s just such a shitty headspace to come from. People wonder how I can still be having fun at nightclubs when I’m mid-30s and it’s because it looks like this.

Max isn’t walking around stewing and angry and bitter and frustrated with the whole thing, everything the nightlife throws at him he turns into a positive thing, even guys coming up to fuck with his video, nothing really shakes his frame whereas I could see other guys who are used to gaming with no real obstacles or taking themselves too seriously, getting all butthurt at these guys RUINING MY VIDEO WAHHHHH THOSE AMOG JERKS WAHHHH lol

To really understand the looks thing, you have to be able to watch a clip of a dude that looks like Josh and be able to look at his subcomms instead of letting your “looks matter” social conditioning keep you blind to all the shit that guy is doing that another guy who looks just like him but is getting blown out ISN’T doing. And then watch a clip like Max or Julien or Tyler and be able to spot all the little things like preselection and leading and ignoring his target and qualifying and unreactiveness etc that he’s doing. Is their game the best in the world? No, lots of what Max does in that video doesn’t even hit. But their frame is pretty much unshakable and they have WAY more opportunity to get laid than they should have based on their looks.

I could watch Keys to the VIP and infield in general over and over for weeks learning shit from it. Guys these days don’t even appreciate how valuable this shit is…we would have KILLED for this kind of infield to study back in the day and now guys will watch an infield clip once and gleam the most basic surface-level shit from it and then toss it aside. Meanwhile I’ll watch it a dozen times and pay attention to a different person in the set or around the set each time, watch it with the sound off, watch it while focusing on each person’s eyes, etc etc

Ya, like the other guys said you just need structure basically. To guide the interaction through hitting the important key points (Mystery Method) and leading it somewhere, on purpose. What you’re doing right now is just spray ‘n pray, going up and having good conversations and then hoping that’s enough to get them to accept your offer to hang out on a high note in the interaction. There’s no real chess strategy going on. No teasing, no push/pull, no qualifying them, no handling the boyfriend stuff, etc etc There MIGHT be that stuff in your interactions, but it’s not in your Field Reports so we can’t tell.

on July 4th, 2016 at 8:03 am
Original Link

“What did you think of Max dissing Red Pill?”

They are too busy hitting the field to pay attention to anything outside of PUA so they don’t really know what Red Pill is. Like all of the stuff here and in the Manosphere and MGTOW and MRA etc is just fluff to them. Like Tyler isn’t reading TRM (no offense Rollo, personally I think they SHOULD), Max isn’t skimming the RVF forum, I doubt Jeffy would really even be able to define MGTOW, etc

So in their view the “Red Pill” is basically what most of the Manosphere is to me: bitter angry guys and a bunch of negativity and stuff, often coming from the wrong place internally. There are parts of the Manosphere that are solid, like TRM, but the vast majority of it is just full of negativity and shitty mindsets. That’s all basically the same thing to Max and “Red Pill” is probably the only label he’s heard for it.

Unfortunately that’s also why someone like Tyler who’s game is solid, doesn’t understand stuff like Hypergamy (in depth) or solipsism or AWALT etc very well and got burned by a girl last year (she was approaching 30 and he didn’t do enough Provider stuff for her to stay with him and he was shocked she bailed because he thought just having high-value would be enough, but she needed some commitment balance and he was off working and sarging etc all the time not really giving her the Primary certainty she needed…also she fucked him after the breakup because AWALT lol).

Anyway, so don’t read into it. Gotta understand that PUAs like him are hitting the field too hard to give a shit about any of this internet politics sphere drama stuff. They’re out approaching and teaching lol

“Maybe he misunderstands what Red Pill is (intentionally or not)”

Ya, it’s unintentional. But to be fair, skim the Red Pill forum on reddit or RVF or Krauser etc and you’ll see a shitload of Madonna/whore judgemental complex shit everywhere. So many guys doing pickup but still coming from that Blue Pill “this girl is a slut but THIS one is special” frame where they think they’re going to go find their low N-Count unicorn at the end of it except they’ll end up like Roosh depressed and miserable when they finally realize AWALT.

And to be fair to the TRP forum, that’s a pretty visibile forum where a lot of guys still in the anger stage end up so like, some guy who’s been there for 10 years is probably pretty chill about it, but there’s a lot of “these fucking sluts are so fucking shallow fuck these bitches just use them and toss them aside like holes” stuff there from guys in the anger stage.

“That vid makes me crazy with all the chaos shit, lol. I have to stop it frequently. Good stuff, but my input processor gets overloaded quickly.”

lol it’s funny because I love it. I see that and I’m like “oh man that looks like fun!” But I’ve trained in nightclubs etc, all *I* see when I see that is opportunities all over to pump my state and open girls and joke around with dudes and test my frame and have fun. This is why I prefer guys learn night game over day game…’cause a guy who only does daygame and gets thrown into THAT chaos will usually shit bricks. But a guy like Max or Julien or Tyler who can walk through that chaos unaffected, can handle daygame where 90% of that chaos is gone, no problem.

“I should have directed the C&F question at scray because he said it, not you. I didn’t think that I’d get hits googling C&F, but I did when I tried…surprise!”

lol it’s an oldschool term coined by David Deangelo so there should be plenty on it.

“I agree! so i said: “but fine, I’ll take it all back. keep posting those FRs and we’ll see if it’s a sticking point or not.” so yup, on the same page.”

lol sorry, I read that as sarcasm like “okay fine you big pussy if you’re gonna cry about it I’ll take it ALL BACK YOU’RE PERFECT you happy now?” lol My bad.

“The camping stuff was just illustrating how powerful roleplaying is, generally…so, lol….”

Right I’m talking more about the “don’t say gay shit” and “that opener doesn’t give value” stuff lol From his previous FRs his opener has been giving lots of value, the girls love it and blow open. So I don’t want to see him start second-guessing that and trying to run openers that he’s not really into…the fact that it’s amusing to him is part of what makes it give value.

“the problem is that Hank said he wasn’t in state and was having a hard time pushing forward.”

Agreed. I think his situation is tough with regards to his state (VS our ability to go hit up a busy nightclub), but ya, what hits in state won’t necessarily hit out of it and vice versa.

“here’s what i said: ” unless she’s a lock for you giving her passive value through either your looks or rock solid subcomms.””

Agree with this and I probably should have focused on the good stuff in your post more than just the stuff I disagreed with ’cause when I read this I was like “ya that’s a good point” lol

“was that when he’s out of state and is going to have bad subcomms, he needs to focus on an opener that adds value through content alone or mostly.”

Ok I get what you’re saying and I can agree with that. I think the disconnect on my end is that self-amusing is supposed to be something you do regardless of whether you’re in state or not because the self-amusement aspect of it is what PUTS you in state. Julien has a great video on this:

But the jist is basically: when you’re out of state, if you say stuff that’s funny to YOU, for the sake of amusing yourself, even if the girl blows you out, it doesn’t affect you because the very act of saying the thing you said, boosted your state slightly.

But you have to know what makes you always laugh, even in a shitty state. Like at 1:10 in that video, when they’re making the students explain what Julien finds funny, watch Julien’s face. It’s pretty much unreactive until the student FINALLY says flat out “ummm…like incest stuff”, watch Julien’s face he busts out laughing because he can’t help it. Now that won’t make EVERYONE laugh but for JULIEN it cracks him up even if he’s in a shitty mood. You’ll see this in his videos a lot when he tells stories or things he says in the field, he’ll crack himself up as he’s just quoting himself. Because he’s saying stuff that’s very specifically tuned to his sense of humor…so regardless of whether the girl reacts well or is getting value or what, he’s boosting his state. Like again at 3:00 in that video the student starts to believe him and he keeps it going until he finally cracks up and is legitimately laughing and in a better state just because he’s saying stuff that self-amuses.

But what a lot of guys do is focus on what they think the girl will laugh at or they try to say stuff that works when they’re in state but isn’t really amusing to them so out of state it flops. VS figuring out what you legitimately can’t help but smile and chuckle to yourself about when you think about it, and in Hank’s case that’s this hair and frame-reversal butt shaking stuff lol

That all said I get what you’re saying: an opinion opener offers a lot of value that you can be completely tanked in state and it’s just the words you’ve said themselves or the topic you’ve thrown onto the table can do the work for you until you can catch up in state to the opener. That’s why Mystery and Tyler were all about the Routine Stacks, the point was to have that first few min on autopilot so you could do it regardless of your state.

So I don’t think anything we’re saying is really contradicting then, it’s just more nuances of a nuanced section of game lol It’s good to understand all of this stuff and calibrate to your personality and situation.

“I’m saying that right now, it SEEMS like he’s not making it work for him — i.e. move the interaction forward. instead, it SEEMS like he’s dropping game bombs that just sort of leave him in one place.”

Ya I agree on this too. Gotta lead it forward from those BT spikes.

on July 4th, 2016 at 9:54 am
Original Link

“but ya, Hank i mean I have a billion little mental techniques that will kickstart your state if you want to hear them (some of them I haven’t seen on the RSD videos — but they could all be on there, lol i haven’t watched ALL the RSD videos).”

I think a lot of guys could benefit from that. There’s no real one-size-fits-all solution but it helps to hear what other guys do. Like when I get ready to sarge, as I’m showering up and everything I’ll have music videos and porn running lol Just to get myself in the mindset of “girls are all looking to get fucked tonight” and get myself used to the massive stimulus of music etc (after doing a mind-numbing anti-social job all week). I do positive affirmations but not real cheesy ones anymore just basic complimenting myself as I get ready (“goddamn my hair looks perfect tonight” and if it doesn’t “good thing my hair is shitty, other guys might actually have a chance tonight”), my buddy and I keep our tone positive and upbeat and focus on the good things about the night and when we meet up our pregame involves watching some Keys to the VIP or good fun infield vids just to normalize the idea of approaching strangers and having fun out there, etc I’ll drop random delusional confidence things even if I don’t know everyone in the group, if anyone looks nervous about going out or we have some shy guys in the group or whoever really, I’ll do stupid shit like “Guys, guys, wait hold up…seriously, I don’t think we should go out tonight…I mean, LOOK at us. …we’re going to be the best looking guys in the club, no one else is going to get laid once we walk in! We should wear paper bags over our faces or something.” It’s retarded but it gets everyone laughing and I’m saying the stuff they wish they could say to themselves and we roll out in a better mood.

And infield I focus on positive thoughts and always try to find the good/funny side of whatever’s happening or just appreciate the opportunities around me (“tonight’s going to be amazing, there are going to be SO many girls out and they all wanna meet us, life is good!”). I won’t let myself dwell on negative thoughts no matter what happens. Like if we get to a club too late and there’s a big lineup it’s not “aw man this sucks, now what, sigh, that club would’ve been awesome :(” and slide into negative spirals. Instead I’ll just reframe it all positively like “perfect, now we have an excuse to open the girls in front of us in this line and they HAVE to be nice to us to not make the lineup awkward!” or “whatever, who cares about this club now we can hit this other one that’s not going to be elbow to elbow crazy packed with drunk people like that one…we only need a couple of girls each (since we’ll both pull 3somes obviously) and the girls at other venues must be SO BORED since this is where the action is, so they’re gonna be so happy when we save them from boredom”.

That stuff is part of why guys like sarging with me and why dudes I meet infield all want to #-close and hang out with me again. Whether we pull or not, we’re going to be in a good mood and have fun and I’m going to try to make sure we all stay in a good headspace. And I don’t have to really think about it and force myself to do it, it’s just a part of who I am now. Like I naturally think to compliment myself in my head or out loud when I see myself in a mirror, it’s not even a state boosting trick at this point it’s just that’s how my internals view myself.

But all of that is personalized to me and stuff that I enjoy. I’ve met guys who like to hit the gym before they go out, or guys who like dead silent meditation before they go out, guys who like to write down routines they want to try that night, guys who like to pregame with a bunch of buddies, etc etc

And to counter the “isn’t that just like relying on looks/money” stuff, if I don’t have access to any of that, like I wake up and have to immediately hop in the shower and my speakers are broken etc, I’ll just tough it out and go out anyway and reframe it as “now I get a chance to practice gaming when I’m out of state” lol ’cause you shouldn’t have to rely on all that stuff, when you get further along you SHOULD try gaming completely out of state and in bad states just to push yourself out of your comfort zone and learn not to rely on state. Which is what Julien talks about in his “fuck your comfort zone” vid where he talks about going out with messy hair and wrinkled shirts and shit.

But you can’t ever have “thinking positive thoughts about yourself” or “believing you have value by default” taken away from you or devalued, whereas externals like looks/money can be taken away or devalued. So basing your self-worth on externals, while it can work at first, no one is saying it won’t, is setting yourself up for failure longterm when you start going for the hotter girls who don’t value your looks/money because their social circles are already full of guys with looks/money and they’re looking at you like “are you still confident when I don’t give you free iois over your looks/money?” and you realize you’re not lol Like I have buddies who drop that they’re doctors/lawyers/etc as soon as possible into conversations with girls…and they get laid. But the first thing I would do with them, to make sure they have a solid internal base, is make them tell girls they work as garbage collectors or manage a McDonald’s, to see if they still feel entitled to get that hottie…if they don’t, they need internal work.

on July 4th, 2016 at 11:46 am
Original Link

The trick to keeping guys in the FI is to show em the ropes young. Prepare for full cringe mode at 1:17 in this video I just ran across:

This kid saved up all his money to just hand it to this completely average WNB chick, and recorded and edited a video of himself doing it, zooming in on the excitement on his face when she acknowledged his White Knightery existence.

YouTube comment says she makes $200,000/yr but no idea how to verify that. She has a shitload of YouTube followers though and a Twitch gaming stream you pay $4.99 to subscribe to with 100,000+ followers, so it’s entirely possible.

Before social media, YouTube, the internet, Twitch, etc, that kid would have had to go actually approach that girl to have her communicate with him in any way. Now? He can just do it from the safety and comfort of his bedroom. And the joy on his face, to be handing his money away to some girl who gives zero fucks about him. The SHEER JOY.

That’s what we’re up against in 2016. What is this kid gonna grow up into at this rate? The FI is drilling this shit into them DEEP from day one…by the time this kid gets to college he’s going to know all about the big bad Red Pill and how he should stay away from it and just keep giving free provision to women. If he can get enough female validation from that and VR porn tech satisfies him enough? Kid is going to literally just be like a workhorse battery for provision like in the Matrix…born and raised to supplicate and provide and expect nothing in return.

on July 5th, 2016 at 8:40 am
Original Link

@Trent Lane
“lol at the grinding girls, wtf. I don’t think I’d ever spotted this 8-0”

lol the funny part is that this DOES happen to normal guys when they by sheer fluke happen to DHV…like the shy insecure chode or the newbie PUA who just HAPPENS to be friends with a bartender ’cause they have a class together in college or some shit and that bartender pours them a free shot and they chat for a sec…that guy will often GET girls noticing him and pAImAI’ing him (standing near him hoping he’ll open) or warming up to him in advance for if he approaches them or trying to get his attention etc because he’s DHV’ed.

But 99.999% of those dudes:

1) don’t expect to get those ioi’s they don’t look like Josh because looks/money FI-conditionined has convinced them that they shouldn’t feel entitled to that attention, only Josh deserves it, so they don’t even SEE them because their RAS is fully blocking them out or they don’t even recognize what they look like and need neon green flashing lights to even IMAGINE that a girl could be attracted to them

2) don’t believe them when they get them (the classic fear of a girl waving at you and you reciprocate thinking she’s into you but she’s actually waving at the guy behind you who looks like Josh, so you just convince yourself from the start that she must mean it for someone else or be tooling you ’cause you don’t feel entitled to that ioi from her)

3) run passive game where they just hope the girl does something like opens them because they don’t really have “game” and bought into the “just be James Bond and post up at the bar and wait for girls to open you, never talk to a “No” girl, never learn how to turn a “No” girl around, only fuck the girls that make it blatantly easy for you which are usually the average/ugly girls

and 4) don’t know what to do or how to capitalize on it even if they DO see it and WANT to, and they let the window of opportunity slip-by, which subcomms to the girl that they don’t believe in their own value which, because girls ping off of their environment for how to feel and what you feel they feel, she classifies you as low-value ’cause if YOU don’t think you deserve her, why would SHE?

This is why I focus so much on the subcomms stuff and guys understanding that it’s the DHVs that matter and that they’re things you can learn to do in a weekend…you could just GO OUT this weekend and chat up a few girls, lead them around the room, play them off eachother, spike their buying temp near a hotter girl, and that hotter girl will give you the same iois except all you had to do was talk to some girls instead of hitting the gym and playing football till you look like Josh lol

“Then I didn’t know what else to say and gazed at her drunkenly. She looked at me with big eyes, grabbed my hand and kissed it. Which blew my mind. I then gazed at her again and in another genius player move I turned around and walked away. Those were the days.”

lolol case in point. The funny part is guys who look like Josh do this TOO. You gotta roll with a bunch of good looking Josh’s to see how many of them actually have shitty/fragile internals/states/frames and how many of them drop the ball. It’s hilarious. But most guys will look at any guy better looking than them and go “THIS GUY MUST HAVE MASTER LEVEL GAME AND GIRLS ALL SPREAD THEIR LEGS FOR HIM WHEN HE WALKS IN THE ROOM I MIGHT AS WELL STICK TO THESE 5s OVER HERE, THEY’RE WHAT I DESERVE, THIS GUY DESERVES THE HOT GIRLS, I’LL JUST LET HIM HAVE THEM AND THEN CONVINCE MYSELF THAT SHE WAS A “NO” GIRL AND THAT I’M TOO BADASS TO DEAL WITH “NO” GIRLS WHO DON’T GET WITH THE PLAN. WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IS THAT I NEXTED *HER* FOR NOT PLAYING ALONG, LOOK AT THOSE SUCKER PUAS TRYING TO TURN “NO” GIRLS AROUND LOLOL WHAT PUSSY BEGGARS” lol

“Thanks for posting, I really like Max’s stuff. He always comes across like pure positivity without any pretense.”

Like I say, the vibe of most of the RSD guys VS the vibe of a Roosh or Krauser…I mean, people can hate on RSD all they want but I know which guys I’d rather pick up overall mindsets from lol

@hank holiday
“I have have been at A2 MANY times (french girl, serbian milf, like a billion white and black 5s lol) I just didn’t move it into A3 and just walked away instead. I need more girls to practice on to make the big step of pushing it further.”

One of the things I love about MM is that because Mystery broke seduction down into very specific stages, you can narrow down sticking points easier. That’s why when scray was like the opener bla bla I’m like no he’s been getting to A2 just fine aside from that ESL girl, I wouldn’t touch what he’s doing up to A2. Whereas without the MM system it would be a lot more like “I don’t know, maybe I need to get bigger reactions at the start or something??” and you’re off focusing on areas that aren’t helping you. Same with scribblerg (or was it Culum? lol can’t remember, whoever walked the girl out to the car to smoke weed and the interaction died) where he was like “maybe I need to make more impact like Julien with offensive comments” but it’s like no, you’re doing just fine with A1-A2, it’s just that Buying Temperature settles over time so you have to keep jumping back to spike it slightly, a bigger impact in A1 won’t really matter, focus on learning to drop in little spikes later on.

It just helps guys very quickly narrow down what to focus on.

“Ohhhhhh. Now I know what this “In mod” torture in that yareally had to suffer through on CH lol.”

lol that was one of the main reasons I quit posting there. What’s the point of writing up all this shit offering value to guys when they don’t end up seeing it? Just a waste of my time.

DHV stories
Crowd Control
Cold Reads”

Google “The Tyler Digest”, and watch/read Mystery Method (or Magic Bullets for a more compact version, but I love watching Mystery talk about his method in videos more than reading, dude is passionate and you see more body language and tonality cues etc). Oldschool cocky Tyler was huge on listing out cold reads, C&F lines etc all formulaic and most of it is in his Digest compilation.

Haven’t read Daygame Mastery ($100+? Not a chance lol) but I trust walawala’s judgement. But money is tight for you so I would go with The Tyler Digest first (’cause Tyler gets right to the point with C&F, Cold Reads, Roleplaying ideas, spiking her Buying Temp with “chick crack”, etc), and then type “Mystery Method Volume” into YouTube and watch Mystery teaching his shit…he’s big on DHV stories and Crowd Control (we call it Group Theory) and gets into a lot of subcomm stuff etc.

@The Awakened One
“Catches blonde girls eye in the back (He files in the back of his brain to go talk to her later perhaps this is his warmup set). She turns around tells her friend and starts dancing hoping to attract his attention (AI) while purple dress blonde girl is keeping an eye on him for her.”

Good eye. It’s hilarious how blatant girls will get with trying to get a guy’s attention when they want him to open them. I’ve caught girls literally dragging eachother to stand in my path repeatedly through the night trying to get me to open them lol And again this goes back to even if you look like Josh and you’re getting those free gimme ioi’s based off your looks you’re still gonna have to go open the girl and demonstrate that you have the value her social conditioning tells her you are likely to have with those looks (watch more Keys eps to watch TONS of good-looking rich jock dudes bomb hardcore once they interact with the girls that give them iois lol).

This is what separates Josh from other good-looking guys. He’s going to be doing a lot of this subconsciously but like, he knows to sort of play the overall chess game in the venue. He knows that girl would be receptive to him but he saves her for later or if he already warmed up with her he knows he can come back to her and instinctively knows that’s going to boost his value to other girls too. Like he’s in no rush, he’s not needy or desperate having to jump on any ioi he gets ’cause he trusts that he’ll get more (entitlement).

“She turns around tells her friend and starts dancing hoping to attract his attention (AI) while purple dress blonde girl is keeping an eye on him for her. 7:07-7:08 Latina girl in grey dress checks him out then glances away to tell her friend.”

Classic MM: the girl who wants you is the one with her back to you, she has her friends keep an eye on you for her so she doesn’t have to look needy/desperate and can keep her high-value image. Completely goes against everything an AFC thinks about how it should work lol And again this goes back to Josh still having to go engage her and/or win over her group and/or pass shit-tests and logistical hurdles etc etc to get her (especially to pull her that night VS just a number close), which comes back to game. Every hour in the gym is an hour that same guy could be engaged with a group of girls and learning to DHV etc

“He gets cuts into targets space, cutting out potential cockblock (who does not get signal from girl to cockblock) and the two dressed up “good looking” amogs who just give up.”

Notice that he doesn’t even engage her chick-friend…he knows the other guys will entertain her so he can just cut everyone out and he instinctively creates “isolation” (she can’t see her friends past his body to worry about them judging her). And her purple dress friend is watching her as he opens to see if she’s into him or not but she’s showing Attraction to him so she lets it happen and the other guys see their opportunity to go for the “other” girl. So there’s another couple dudes who will take home an average girl and tell himself maybe if he had bigger biceps he could’ve gotten the better girl, meanwhile they didn’t even really TRY, they weren’t running fuck all game when Josh walked in and steamrolled over the set.

And then he’s doing perfect game shit, like cold reading what she does and calibrating etc He can tell she feels like she doesn’t have enough value for him (just like the first set Cajun does where the girl doesn’t believe she has enough value for him to really be into her) so he builds her value up to his level etc Look at her reaction when he’s guessing her job…as he says she’s good looking, dressed well, she’s smiling, but the point where she explodes is when he mentions the creativity cause of her earrings. He’s qualified her on something aside from her default looks she was born with, she specifically picked those earrings out thinking she’s creative and he zeroed in on noticing them and she’s over the moon ecstatic about it…way more than just default “you’re beautiful” compliments. Like that’s the point where she believes she has enough value for him to really be into her because he noticed that. From there she’s just completely flustered.

Outside of that stuff, check out the guy in the black shirt behind Josh when he says “Tell you what” after the psychic comment. Compare that guy’s body language to Josh’s body language when he walks through the club and when he approaches that girl. Black shirt guy isn’t even conscious of it but he has his drink up at his chest, he’s value-scanning around the room, his body language is tucked in looking like a scared child afraid to take up space, his buddy with the glasses doesn’t even find him interesting enough to be talking to him.

VS Josh who walks through the room like he’s the owner of the place and when he approaches the blonde he just slides in fully expecting a warm reception (because he catches eye-contact with her before approaching, so he’s subconsciously stacking the deck in his favor before he even goes up…it’s funny how many Naturals get laid all the time when the girls they approach are the ones they get eye-contact from lol, they don’t even realize they aren’t doing cold approach and that they’re already in A2 when they approach, to them they’re just batting a thousand…that’s not to take away from what they do, but for normal guys to understand what to look for when they hang with Naturals and where a lot of Naturals have blind spots to demystify their Chad Thundercock game mastery that intimidates everyone).

Like I say, this is one of my favorite episodes. Even the third girl Josh gets, that’s the same girl that destroys the black dude in the first set, but notice that the point where that dude tanked that set was when he started failing her shit-tests…if he had better game and could pass those tests about his goofy hat etc, she probably would have been just as receptive to him. She’s not a “bitch”, he just had shitty game. Then Josh comes in with a beautiful display of game on multiple levels (from AMOG’ing a guy (who walks off tail between his legs and lets him have her, of course) to stopping a bar fight to leading her and escalating etc etc).

But if you read the comment sections on this episode you’ll see stuff like:

“Josh has invincible confidence! He’s completely fulfilled- he’s got the looks, he’s got the voice, he’s got the experience, he’s got the body. Everything. He doesn’t need to do anything.ο»Ώ”

Yup, he’s not doing “anything” lol If you don’t understand all the game shit Josh is actually running or subcomms.

“Cajun is a master , Josh is just a good looking guy . Just think what if they swap their body , Josh will have no chance with his game”

I should agree with this, right? Because I’m a PUA? Nope. Josh HAS game, this is an example of someone who can’t get past Josh’s looks to see the actual solid game he’s running. If they switched bodies but kept their personal game skills, they’d both do just fine ’cause Josh HAS game. But every other good-looking dude Josh is blowing out has shit game. Josh is the anomaly and even him, if we had lots more infield footage of him, he’d probably have blind spots and sticking points guys could take advantage of.

@Culum Struan
“And his face – he’s just beaming. You can tell that that’s absolutely made his day/week/month. She doesn’t even look that happy. I mean, lots of thank you and stuff but not much of an emotional reaction from her.”

Yup. The reason I posted it is it goes back to the Blue Pill Frame. Look at the comments on that video and you’ll see someone tell him he’s retarded because she’s already making $200,000/yr and he’s wasting his money and the kid just sarcastically replies “Oops” like ZERO fucks given. In that kid’s view of the world, conditioned by the FI, none of that matters, what he did was the right thing to do and he’s a champion.

Both that kid and that girl are developing their frames. The boy is learning to give his resources/providership away to average/ugly women in exchange for minimal reward, and the girl is learning to accept resources/prividership from men despite being average/ugly. Like you say, she’s not even enthused about it, and she’ll normalize it even further as she approaches full adulthood to where she’ll just EXPECT it…meanwhile he’ll continue to feed her money and learn to be happy with less and less reward until he approaches full adulthood where he’ll just ACCEPT that he’s supposed to give his resources away for nothing.

This is what I’m talking about when I talk about technology and the upcoming generation and how fucked up it’s getting out there. It’s easy to write this off as “oh YaReally found the ONE example on YouTube”, but this is just one of the kids dumb enough to video it and put it up…if you look around and pay attention to what’s happening with Instagram/Patreon/Twitch/YouTube/etc you’ll find a shitload of this stuff and these kids are growing up with it, surrounded by FI-based education systems and parenting etc

This kid and this girl will have VERY strong frames by the time they’re 21.

“Yah, it’s pretty interesting how easy it is to keep a house neat and clean”

lol I have a tiny little apartment and it takes me like 2-3 hours to go from complete messy dirty shithole to 5-star hotel clean. And I’ve SEEN enough girls’ apartments to know that most of them are nightmares compared to mine. Even the clean ones are COVERED in hair and a million products all over the bathroom and shit, and those are the otherwise clean ones. Girls are a fucking mess, if she can’t even keep her own place clean she’s not going to keep a place we share together clean. And when I clean it I don’t piss & moan and expect some huge favors in return for it or use it as some guilting excuse to get away with shit like 2016 girls do lol

Far as I’m concerned in 2016 moving in with a girl is just like adopting a large 5yo child (minus the sex lol) No thanks, just drop by for sex!

“for Yareally’s benefit – above average facially, short but height weight proportional, hipster beard and en vogue man bun, international accent [of the right kind]”

lololol I love it. inb4 “sure that infield shows a disabled disfigured midget getting girls but look at the length of his finger!!! TOTALLY PROPORTIONAL BRO!! Dude is basically a model, looks matter!!” Just keep sliding those goalposts around. πŸ™‚

“this here is something most of the recent RSD infields have not addressed directly”

’cause they’ve covered it a zillion times lol Julien’s PIMP product has a whole video about getting physical right away.

“Just about every one within 30 seconds of interaction – kino. This is a huge differentiator and it was good to see Max address it with some easy points. compliance and physicality is what sets you apart on a hind brain level from every other “hey what’s your name?” that the girl is getting over and over all night.”

ehhh, it’s useful but it’s not necessary. You don’t really need kino, I rarely do any. But it IS a huge DHV when you do it smoothly, I just DHV in other ways. So it’s just a tool in the toolbox. What hank is doing is already getting him enough A2 to work with as it is. Not that he COULDN’T add it, but it’s not a magic pill and there’s a lot more calibration baggage with kino’ing during the day (like a girl at work behind a counter with customers around)

“That and then bouncing, first intra venue then out.”

Again a useful tool but if a girl is working she can’t really go anywhere, though he could lead them around the store. But ya, like MM said back in the day: every time you lead her somewhere she’s gaining ref experiences that following your lead results in good feels instead of danger and bad feels, and it builds comfort to be in multiple locations with someone. He’s got that all planned out and worked into his Day 2, but how much he can lead girls around during daygame is something he’d have to calibrate. I would focus more on nailing A3 than worrying about leading her anywhere, like if she’s sitting down in a Starbucks with her laptop and coffee, where’s he supposed to lead her ya know?

Kino and leading are good stuff to practice and learn how to do, but I would save it for when he has access to nightclubs where he can miscalibrate that and it’s not as big a deal (because people expect some physical interaction in nightclubs).

“will benefit the most from adding to what he is doing”

Thing is he’s still dropping the ball once he gets A2 so these things aren’t really going to fix that he’s not doing A3. Kino will get him more A2 and venue changing will get him more A2 and C1, but he’s still missing A3. It’s like having a door closed between rooms. Note that Max does a lot of his Kino IN A3…”Oh, I like you, you’re fun, do you want to get married” (like he’s qualified her on something…his open was enough of a DHV to get enough A2 from her to let him do A3 almost immediately so the Kino happens “right away” but he’s still well into A2 or A3 before he does it)

His demonstration halfway through (? can’t remember) of his compliance/kino escalation is fucking BRILLIANT though. Every guy should watch that. Where he goes from the handshake to the arm around his shoulders to the hug etc on the street girl. That’s a beautiful demonstration of how he’s calibrating on the fly and why he can escalate the physicality so fast.

“Key bank robbing concept – go where the money is… same in game. You do yourself no favors fucking around in a two horse town.”

Yup. Hank knows this but it can’t be said enough for the lurkers who DO have the option of moving to a better location. I would live on the Vegas strip if I could lol

“Side note – he he the hottest girl in the vid is a camera whore… The Girls Gone Wild guys were brilliant to expose this… use to your advantage whenever a girl asks you to take her picture, art direct that shit.”

Even the GGW concept has a lot of game principles built into it, from peer pressure to “everyone else is doing it so if you wanna be cool like them” to “no one will judge you we’re all cheering you on removing accountability and judgement” etc The Slut Whisperer guy puts a hat on girls’ heads and pulls the brim down so you can’t fully see their face and THAT is often enough to get them to whip their tits out if they’re shy because they can hamster rationalize “oh well my face is covered so it’s fine, there will be no judgement/accountability for this!”

This also extrapolates to how isolation works…you don’t need to get the girl alone in a room with you, you LITERALLY just have to get her friends (or whoever she’d be worried about judging her) out of her line of sight. That’s IT lol You can do it a million ways, her friends can be standing RIGHT BESIDE/BEHIND her but as long as she doesn’t directly see them, she feels less judgement/pressure/accountability and can flirt with you more and makeout etc

“I’ve done the spin moves, seem too contrived for me though…”

lol it’s basically advertising you’re a PUA these days…and yet girls still love it. I don’t do it ’cause I feel too old to congruently do it (same with high-fives).

My personal favorite is to go from the handshake, and if she doesn’t pull her hand away (compliance) to lifting her hands up to my shoulders and put my hands around her waist like a school dance position, which also increases the impact of laser eye-contact by cutting the space naturally so our faces are closer together. It’s nice and simple/subtle.

Here’s another kino video (gay as fuck lol):

For hank though, I would have him focus more on A3 and leading the interaction into C1 and leading to instadates or Time Bridging solid numbers, over kino ’cause he’s still going to hit that A3 bump. She’s not going to go “wow you touched me so well, what are you doing later can we hang out??”

“They seemed to want me acknowledge their moral and other superiority”

Not even necessarily their superiority, like I wasn’t there so I can’t tell how malicious their intent was, but a lot of times it can just be that they’re looking to feel USEFUL, like you actually need them in some way, like there’s a role in your life they can fill. When you’re too independent and happy being single, the girl doesn’t see any place for her in your life besides being a hole to fuck lol But when you have some chink in your armor, she sees something where she thinks “if I can show him I can help him fix that part of him, he’ll realize he needs me!!”

It’s like they have a hammer but you don’t need anything fixed, so they try to break something so you’ll see their hammer is useful and they’ll have you locked down lol Chick logic.

And of course if you DO let her wear you down so that you need her, that’s the beta’ization process and the more you need her the less she’ll want you lol I figure for a long-term LTR you gotta hit that balance where she feels needed but not TOO needed. I lose girls all the time once they start pushing for a place in my life beyond fuckbuddy, but it’s because I don’t want mLTRs or anything right now, I have other shit to do, so I stick to my guns and they go try a LSNFTE or find some Provider guy to keep them busy. But if I wanted to keep them around, I would let them feel like my life is slightly improved because of them like they have some kind of value to me…and then be prepared for the shit-tests to squash that if they get too cocky about it and start trying to beta’ize shit further lol

Too much effort for me to bother trying to pull off that balancing act though…right now I prefer to just find new girls (there’s thousands of them out there) and they can come back to me when they get bored of the Provider guy they try dating. I’ve got my own shit to focus on and the prize (monoLTR or mLTRs/pLTR where I have to balance and juggle this stuff) doesn’t seem worth it until I want kids. OMG maybe I’m a MGTOW!!! lol

on July 5th, 2016 at 9:24 am
Original Link

Followed links from that Lovedrop clip and man, there’s SO much fucking value in this clip starting at 11:50:

This is subcomm shit. All these tiny little dynamics make a difference infield. When Max takes that girl into the corner so he can lean back with her “gaming him”, he knows exactly what he’s doing and you can see Lovedrop doing different positions with these girls and SEE how different it looks when they’re locked in VS when he is and how much more intimidating it looks for an AMOG to enter that set in certain arrangements or how much more it looks like he’s preselected to other girls who look at his set in some positions VS others.

Like part of why AMOGs don’t generally barge into my sets is because I know how to position the set so that it looks like there’s no POINT in trying to barge into my set because the girls like me too much, even if they don’t yet lol There’s a reason I always stress that on a Day 2 the best spot in the venue to sit with the girl is with your back to the wall and you facing the rest of the room, and her just facing YOU…there’s a reason almost every Day 2 I do when I do that, results in a lay. I can do my Day 2’s on autopilot because I’m not letting all these random variables interfere by picking some retarded seat for us where I can’t see anything and she sees the entire room and her RAS is jumping all over the place. You can put me in the middle of Disneyland elbow to elbow and I’ll still look for a spot to position us where there’s minimal stuff behind me so she has to focus her RAS on me.

And what a different throwing in a False Time Constraint makes when you take a girl’s chair or have her move over (VS without the FTC they’re more like “no I don’t want to give this up” VS the FTC where it’s like “oh okay he’s leaving soon anyway” and then you just don’t because you move the set forward and they forget about it lol). Even when Mystery is just SAYING it like “you take her chair” the first thought is “but she’ll get mad that she has to stand” and then he adds “and say I can only stay for a minute” and then you can FEEL the relief of “oh okay she won’t be mad cause she’ll get her chair back in a minute” (even though she won’t lol)

And the stuff about ducking down and seated sets and how that subcomms who has what value.

But so many guys will be sloppy as fuck. They’ll forget their FTC, they’ll forget to lock-in and stay in a low-value position, they’ll fuck SO many little things up and then wonder why their consistency is shit.

Like Jeffy says: game isn’t about doing a few big moves right, it’s about doing a million tiny little things right.

And then if it weren’t good enough as it is, Mystery shows how to steal the set from a guy DOING a proper lock-in at 19:00. I do this kind of thing a if I have to lock a dude out (like an AMOG does jump into my set (because to a Josh, I look like a guy that would be easy to take girls from) or a jealous orbiter in a mixed set is trying to fight for their attention, or I’m wingmanning for a buddy and have to keep the guys in the group busy, etc). If you can get everyone in front of that guy to turn their backs to him, it’s MASSIVE social pressure on him. Like Lovedrop describes, he feels like “hey hey what about me can I get in??” super low-value.

I actually had a Natural buddy who would accidentally do that to me all the time lol He wasn’t thinking about it but I would always end up staring at everyone’s backs with not enough room to still be in the circle so I looked like just some guy lurking there to anyone else looking at us lol It was frustrating but funny because of how consistent he would do it. I could TAKE the attention back, but then I’m competing with my buddy, or I could just open other girls around us, but then we’re not in set together and pulling girls together is fun, so I just explained to him to let me have some space in the set so I don’t get locked out like that and he understood game enough to fix that so we could both be in set.

So that’s another thing to pay attention to when you wing a buddy (SJF), like, are you making sure he’s a part of the set and he looks high-value, or are you taking attention away from him and he’s cut out on the outside feeling his value drop (which affects his confidence, subcomms, etc)

So much value in that video. I miss the oldschool PUA days where everyone was this tactical and understood this shit on this level VS the “just get jacked and spam approach and “NEXT” any girl who isn’t immediately into you, and don’t read that gay MM shit have you seen his stupid fuzzy hat lolol what a chump” shit that modern Red Pill/Manosphere/even PUA/etc tends to focus on.

My oldschool PUA buddy and I can talk like Lovedrop and Mystery in this video for hours, breaking down subtle subcomms and shit when we do our end of the night (or next day if we pull lol) breakdowns of our night.

on July 5th, 2016 at 10:59 am
Original Link

lol here we go…did *I* want this thread to be full of shirtless pickup guys? Nope. But apparently you do, so here we go:

Max getting in shape is a recent thing. But today I learned that if you are ever in shape at any point in your life, then everything you’re teaching about pickup doesn’t matter anymore and was lies.

Man look at these JACKED BICEPS as he spins this girl, holy shit how is there even room for text on the screen with his JACKED MUSCLES?

I mean, sure, you can’t SEE them or anything (and in that infield he’s wearing loose clothing that cover his muscles) but really that’s just a trick of the light because being in shape in the last few months of doing YEARS of pickup means that you were actually in that exact same shape the entire time.

They’ve all picked up and taught for YEARS without being in shape. So when does your calendar of the fatty RSD guys ship since they’re all so handsome to you?

But thankyou for providing a demonstration of why I can basically never get in shape. Because the SECOND I do, guys like you will be lined up to go “SEE IT’S HIS LOOKS!!! IT’S SO OBVIOUS GUISE!!! IT’S LOOKS!!!!11” to discount the YEARS that I wasn’t in shape so you can keep men trapped in their social conditioning, chasing FI-based goals. Congrats, you’re an excellent little FI-based soldier, keeping men down and fucking up the knowledge base of how attraction/psychology actually work.

Is your workout the workout you get from lifting and carrying the looks goalposts around?

on July 5th, 2016 at 11:00 am
Original Link

Post in mod for you with a bunch of shirtless PUAs for you to admire, including Max. I’d go lift instead of posting but then everything I’ve ever taught would be discounted by you because if a guy gets in shape at any point in his life then everything outside of that was invalid and imaginary and didn’t happen.

on July 5th, 2016 at 11:15 am
Original Link

“But be realistic when observing what your eyes are telling you”

If you think Max walks into a room and girls all check him out and fall over themselves to open him because of how sexy he looks and it’s not because of the DHV stuff he’s doing, I don’t know what to tell you. I can explain why he gets opened because what I’m saying holds up under pressure-testing, but YOU have to explain why other guys with better looks DON’T get opened if looks matter.

“I think it’s funny that Max calls his product “Natural” game because I’ve read half of his lines in the Tyler Digest. I enjoy his videos anyway of course, it’s just ironic.”

lol ya, just repackaging shit. Pretty much all the RSD guys learned MM first and THEN went into their various branches of styles of game, so you’ll always see glimpses of MM underneath it. Mystery pretty much broke it all down back in the day and everyone else is just repackaging his shit, there have been VERY few actual real legitimate breakthrough advances in game tech since Mystery. Even a lot of guys who think they’ve discovered something new, I can pull out MM and point out “that’s just this and this, you discovered it the same way as Mystery: field experience” lol

“So any out of balance in either direction is going to lead to shit tests and seeking for what is missing.”

Agreed. It’s easy to see this even just in a case by case basis. There have been girls where I’m fully 100% Alpha Fucks Lover to them, everything I’ve ever done around them has been fully congruent to Alpha Fucks and they let me get away with ANYTHING, I can be kicking a girl out when they’re arriving and they’ll just laugh it off. But there’ve also been girls where I’ve been almost fully Alpha Fucks but then I let some Provider gayness slip in there and suddenly I’m not fully congruent and out come the shit-tests.

BUT, that’s for fuckbuddies. For an LTR I have to give a bit of beta (not much, just a hint of it) to balance it out…more alpha will just drive her away. Calibration and all that.

Like Mr. Miyagi says: “Left side of road good, right side good, middle of road? Splat like grape.”

“So many Alpha guys get betaized once kids come along in a LTR”

Yup, the problem as I outline in my “Why monogamy is broken” rant is that marriage and kids force a guy into a position where he can’t walk away which takes away a shitload of his ability to not put up with bullshit and pass shit-tests. Marriage you can at least voluntarily avoid, so guys signing up for THAT are just extra retarded to me. But kids, I don’t know, there might be a day in my 40s where I decide I want kids and I’ll be looking at other guys’ experiences for how to not let myself fall into chump mode in that situation (because presumably I won’t want to risk losing my kids lol I’m not a MONSTER)

“The shit tests have no end…”

There’s no point where I don’t want reassurance that the pilot of my flight is still as skilled and capable and on the ball as he was when I got on that flight lol ESPECIALLY if I hear snoring or “wtf does this flashing light mean??” coming from the cockpit (an alpha failing a shit-test), then I want to put the fucking flight school exam in front of him and make him pass it 100% before I feel comfortable with that flight again.

“unrelenting Alpha when you are pretty alpha is as bad as more supplicating beta when you are beta… This is one of the trickiest things to manage I think, because if you have alpha you can get by with just a little beta (90/10)…”

Ya, 90/10 is about right. The hard part for guys growing up in the FI is that being beta feels GOOD. Look how happy that kid giving his money to that Twitch girl is, kid is happier in that moment than half his friends will ever be in their lives. We’re often fully conditioned to feel GOOD doing beta things and supplicating and being a Nice Guy. So once you let a little beta out, and then she shit-tests to see how much MORE beta you’ll let out, it’s hard to put the brakes on and cut that shit off and very easy to get swept up in “well I guess I did that once so it wont’ hurt to do it again plus she’s crying and it’ll make her happy so okay just this one more time…” and boom.

on July 5th, 2016 at 11:37 am
Original Link

“but if you want to see how your game is working for you, you have to see how it is working out on HOT women or the women currently who are beyond you.”

lol this comes back to I’m sure he WOULD, if he COULD, but he doesn’t HAVE those around him. Like, what’s he supposed to do? It’s not like he’s walking through a mall full of 9s and he’s choosing to open the 5s. If he can at least practice getting these shitty chicks into A3-C1, when he gets to a city where he has 8s and 9s around he’ll at least have the basic framework to start from.

“so however a girl less than a 6 reacts to you should just not even register….you shouldn’t even view it as actual game practice. use them to get into state, like i said, and to DHV indirectly to other chicks, but just count them as mulligans.”

I don’t disagree with this, even in my last paragraph there. Like I agree with you fully (game is MADE for the hotter girls), but again the dude has to do what he can with his environment for now. Completely disregarding interacting with 5s when he doesn’t HAVE hotter girls to interact with is just going to limit his interactions in GENERAL. You can still practice a lot of game concepts on 5s in preparation for the future where you have access to hotter girls.

“however, you run into enough 6+’s i think to use that as your base ‘only this counts’ meter.”

No idea on this. It sounds to me like he DOES open anything over a 5 when he sees it.

“the DLV is getting behind the wheel and dropping game bombs without any real plan to move forward. women can sense that.”


“the DHV and the social savvy comes from her watching you deftly roll on, roll off, and push things forward. it’s how you can play with her emotions and get her following you. humor is a part of that but it isn’t the whole thing.”

And this. This is why I say focus on the A3 to C1 transition first…getting to A2 is great, but that’s just validation mainly. Gotta practice the transition from A2 to A3 (Mystery Method: qualify her so when she passes you can show male to female interest).

“this is all good for self-amusing and being funny and whatever”

lol the key in that example is pushing it forward with “when we make out”. Future projection that we’re going to be making out, assuming attraction/success, taking things out of the “just be gay best friends” zone and into “we’re going to make out at some point”. But in a low-key subtle way.

“and FORCE her to start investing”

Right and remember that this investing comes AFTER she’s giving A2 (the “lol”…which it’s funny to me that scray immediately visualizes a POSITIVE “lol” (aka A2) like “lol this guy is funny I want to hear more” and not a sarcastic or neutral lol like I actually meant it when I wrote it lol shows good internal mindsets in scray…for the examples the “lol” is just filler for “neutral feedback”, like what can you do if she ISN’T playing along and giving you easy shit to feed off).

“but we’re not the same….the x sort of compliments your y, you’re probably more of a z type, eh, a little bit of a b and c?”

Right, this is solid and going into qualifying etc (A3). But again, for hank, remember that he’s going into this BECAUSE she’s giving A2. Before A2 she doesn’t care what yo uthink of her or whether you’re the same etc. After A2 (and A2 can be just a couple iois, nothing crazy, you’re getting more than enough A2 to try this), she cares.

“now I’m hammering this home not because what ya or what you think is wrong. i’m thinking about YOUR SPECIFIC situ and how you have less sets to try and you’re daygaming and so you have to have more precision”

Ya, I think we’re agreeing and saying the same thing. It’s that A2 to A3 stage that he’s got to work on.

“and list the facts. literally the DIRECT evidence. you’ll find that you don’t have any direct evidence of a) anything innately wrong with you and b) that hot chicks won’t sleep with you and c) that the girls you’ve talked to didn’t like you or couldn’t like you.”

This is a big one. When I’m with guys and they say “oh she won’t like me” or “oh she wasn’t that into me” or “oh she hated me” I’ll force them to explain exactly WHY they think that. Like okay give me evidence of that. And they never CAN, because there WAS no real evidence, they just sabotaged themselves but don’t realize it until they’re forced to explain and can’t lol

“you need to make the e = mc^2 connection here.”

I feel like we can just keep explaining this to him a thousand times and he still won’t piece it together lol

“Glad to see the hyper-extrapolation machine is running in top gear…”

I’ll keep exaggerating your point as long as you keep bringing non-evidence to the table thinking it’s making a case.

“Apparently a lot more good looking with his shirt off!”

I missed the part where he was shirtless in that infield. Guess I was too busy making up subcomms to look at.

“No need to hate on the good looking guys….”

There’s no hate, it’s just irrelevant and posting a pic of them when they finally get in shape as if that has any relevance to the dozens of hours of infield they’ve put up over the years that show exactly what I’m talking about, is a retarded non-argument that I’m forced to call out because guys trapped in the looks matter paradigm fuck themselves over in the longrun.

For every good-looking PUA you mention I can bring up an ugly PUA. Their looks are irrelevant and guys need to understand why Josh gets attraction while other jacked good-looking dudes don’t and why out of shape Max got the same attention as in-shape Max (who’s even wearing clothes that cover up his body).

“Girls need drama from time to time. Making them cry or become angry is part of my relationship formula.”

The question is: how do we convince that kid donating his savings to that ugly Twitch chick to understand he needs to make her cry or feel bad once in a while to stay attracted to him?

on July 5th, 2016 at 11:40 am
Original Link

“also, the main thing is that ultimately you need to build a normal life that is constantly pumping your state. like from when you get up to when you get off of work, your state needs to be constantly being pumped. but that’s more long-term. that’s lifestyle shit.”

This is the most important point. It’s just not real useful for hank right now. It’s also part of why I try to get guys to ENJOY to process of pickup and going out and sarging like Max in that infield, VS the Roosh/Krauser “it’s this horrible grind you HAVE to do, just suck it up no matter how much it drains you and makes you feel like shit ugh I hate this” vibe where it’s just this mud you have to sludge through lol

’cause if you ENJOY sarging then that thing you’re dedicating X hours of your life to that DIRECTLY leads to pussy, is as enjoyable as any other hobby anyone else has. You add a career you enjoy and if you have the free time then also add some other personal hobby on top of that (once you’re getting your dick wet and are out of the hyperfocus stage of PUA), and you’re skipping around on a cloud made of rainbows and gumdrops 24/7 lol

on July 5th, 2016 at 11:58 am
Original Link

“looks are game”

…because of social conditioning that says looking that way is high-value. If our culture promoted flat-tops as attractive or girls with mangled teeth being cute like in Japan etc, those looks would be high-value instead. No disagreement there, but the reason is because of social conditioning.

“Please, let’s not do the “looks matter” routine guys, there is no there there.”

Don’t look at me, I didn’t post the shirtless Max pic as if that was some kind of rebuttal lol

on July 5th, 2016 at 1:15 pm
Original Link

“you post how Max has “no manliness like Clint Eastwood””

Is that an inaccurate statement? I was pointing out that he doesn’t have James Bond energy because a lot of guys think you have to be manly to be alpha/attractive to women but guys like Max and Russell Brand disprove that.

“And fetishism does not equal attractive… Mangled teeth… LOL”

Replace it with anything else. Fashion, hairstyles, beards, grey hair, etc Whatever society/marketing/etc conditions people to believe is attractive in that time period.

“Basically, how come there’s this super hot chick that LOVES me and begging for my time/attention, while this “cute but nothing special” girl just keeps snubbing me and acts like she isn’t really interested.”

You know the answer of course, just quoting this because I lol’ed

“If I’m objective and look at the circumstances, my own looks between the interactions with the 2 girls did not change at all”

Impossible. You must have actually been physically better looking around the one girl rather than the other. Subcomms don’t real and girls are all attracted to a specific look.

“My eyes really opened when I noticed that”

No one believes me till they hit the field and test it enough lol But most guys won’t pro-actively sabotage their looks and go out and still approach girls until they feel entitled to approach regardless of their looks (so their subcomms adjust, since when they first fuck their looks up they’ll have shitty subcomms ’cause they don’t have that external attribute to base their self-esteem on anymore), and see for themselves how little their looks mattered.

Just like my doctor buddies don’t get how I can tell girls I work as a garbage man and still get the same attraction they get when they say they work as a doctor…if they’d mack girls saying they work as a garbage man for a few months they’d find how little it matters, but they won’t because to do it they would have to risk not getting girls with their crutch taken away so they’ll just keep dropping that they’re doctors and stay convinced that that’s what’s giving them value to women.

“Oh shit, i’m a few pages in on Tyler’s Digest, holy cow. This is a treasure trove and is giving me missing pieces already. Like having her feel qualified for me – I think I fuck this up a lot.”

Oldschool Tyler was amazing. He has better inner mindsets and stuff now, but his technical understanding of the game when he steamrolled onto the scene was off the charts. Everything was nice and direct too, no bullshit, pure field-tested knowledge. Understanding Mystery Method and oldschool Tyler’s posts is such an unfair advantage over other guys, in terms of technical external game.

on July 5th, 2016 at 1:16 pm
Original Link

whoops, Klem not Scribblerg, you both have red avatars lol

on July 5th, 2016 at 2:52 pm
Original Link

@The Man
“what is the pua consensus for the following?:
1) women flaunt/men seek/ women choose
2) women flaunt/men select and then seek by way of controlling the woman’s choice/women choose
3) men display/ women choose (like F. Roger Devlin thinks)”

…I can’t imagine a scenario where it’s anything but number 3. I don’t know if I really understand what your question is though.

The second you enter a girl’s vision/knowledge, her hindbrain is taking notes on all the subcomms you’re displaying (and the ones you’re not displaying) and then tries to get your attention (pAImAI, AIs, etc). She may go out peacocked hoping to meet a guy with high-value, but she’s not trying to flaunt to every guy. If you could immediately vaporize every guy in the room who doesn’t have high-value, she would be ecstatic…she only ends up flaunting to every chode in the room because she has to go into a public venue to meet that high-value guy. The ONLY reason a woman “flaunting” interacts with unattractive guys is because they’re there and she can’t avoid drawing their attention when she’s trying to flaunt for higher-value guys.

And even then, she doesn’t have to have the mindset of being on the prowl. Plenty of girls go out with zero intention of hooking up (the sober girl who doesn’t like bars and got dragged along for a birthday, the random not done-up girl you catch in the middle of running errands during daygame, etc) or flaunting or having no intention/expectation of meeting a high-value guy, and when you DHV it triggers attraction in her.

If your game is passive and you rely on AIs and pAImAI and girls opening you, then you’re basically ending up with the girls purposely on the prowl for whatever DHVs you happen to passively display, but even then like, they’re not going to be attracted to you unless you “display”. But legitimate cold approach is like, the girl literally doesn’t know you exist until you open her and start displaying value (the fact that you even open her is ITSELF a slight DHV because most guys won’t).

Not really sure what the question is though tbh or if I answered it lol

“Also, about the “garbage man” part, I’ve never been laid as much as when I was unemployed lol”

I got a bunch of doctor lawyer etc buddies and rich/jacked buddies who would never believe it lol ’cause they’ll never go field-test it.

“Yareally would be so bored talking ESL-like with me hehehe”

lol if you’re ESL I wouldn’t have guessed from your posts. Your writing was just fine to me.

on July 5th, 2016 at 3:57 pm
Original Link

@The Man
“yet the woman is in said venue (and has taken the time to look nice), which is a contextual subtextual flaunt in of itself – yes?”

Only if you ignore the part where I said specifically “Plenty of girls go out with zero intention of hooking up (the sober girl who doesn’t like bars and got dragged along for a birthday, the random not done-up girl you catch in the middle of running errands during daygame, etc) or flaunting or having no intention/expectation of meeting a high-value guy, and when you DHV it triggers attraction in her.” which is saying that she isn’t in said venue with the intention of flaunting and isn’t necessarily “looking nice” when she’s running out to grab a snack at the convenience store. A lot of times she’s more worried about social judgement being seen without her makeup etc than having the intention of looking good incase she runs into a high-value man.

“So I still think #1 is the most useful paradigm”

I mean, if you want to classify her ever leaving a small room with no windows in it as her flaunting for male attention, then sure. But that doesn’t really hold up infield.

“Woman contextually subtextually flaunts albeit perhaps subliminally or unconsciously/ Man selects & seeks by way of controlling the woman’s choice/ thereby Man induces more overt woman-flaunt, directed towards him/ Woman chooses””

Only if you classify her ever leaving a small room with no windows in it as her flaunting for male attention, but then you’re going to need to bring a whole lot of evidence to the table that the girl running out to grab a salad from the store on the corner with no makeup on in her sweatpants is flaunting.

“What do you think of women’s attraction for the masculine as being mainly about the masculine ‘confidence’?”

It’s about seeing a demonstration of his subcomms. Confidence is just a subcomm, you can display it or you can display a lack of it. She’s pretty much neutral to you until she sees a demonstration of your subcomms. Social conditioning convinces her that a certain look means you’re likely to have good subcomms but it’s once you display them (or not display them) that she feels legitimate attraction instead of just interest.

“@Hank – But what’s really genius in the Tyler Digest is not the routines but him putting them in perspective. He talks about why cocky and funny is important. He talks about why rapport and comfort is important. He breaks it all down so simply, and you also get a sense of his development since then.”

Oldschool Tyler is genius shit. I love his old posts. Anyone who hasn’t read the full Tyler Digest is missing out.

“but I move into comfort/rapport building too easily”

Most guys do. It goes back to what I said about Krauser with his “No” girls, where he hasn’t done enough for them to WANT Comfort with him but his game is heavily based around getting into Comfort quickly…the girls saying No aren’t “difficult”, they just aren’t giving him A2 yet and he tries to do more Comfort instead of calibrating and DHVing some more and not being in a rush to get to Comfort.

Average AFC guys also try to go straight for Comfort. “So do you come here often? Cool, do you live around here? Cool, what do you do for a living?” etc But they haven’t DHV’ed so the girl doesn’t WANT Comfort with them.

“I don’t do enough DHVing and wait for the interest until I move into rapport”

When you fully understand what Mystery Method was teaching, he would basically NEVER even TRY for Comfort until he had as much A2 as possible (to where she’s CRAVING Comfort with him), and then STILL qualify her in A3 to make her feel like she’s earned his Comfort by standing out in some way for reasons besides her beauty. So in THEORY, he would never get “rejected” because he’s not escalating things unless he has enough A2 for it to be a green light…and if he doesn’t have enough A2 yet, he just stays in A1 or disqualifies her with his A3 (instead of letting her pass) and loops back to A1 to DHV some more until she’s giving him enough A2 that he knows she’s going to be receptive.

Compare that to what guys tend to do now where they try to move into A3 as soon as possible with minimal A2 and then wonder why their consistency is so low.

“I take the pressure off of spiking her interest with kino, push/pull, sexualizing etc and bring the temp down with comfort before she’s really hooked.”

By the time Mystery is asking the girl about herself (initiating C1), she’s DYING for him to ask her about herself. It goes back to the high-value frame of “who the fuck is SHE? She’s just another pretty face, why would a high-value guy even WANT Comfort with her if she hasn’t impressed him?” which is the HB10 frame where they don’t want C1 with EVERY guy that talks to them, they only want C1 with the guys that have “impressed” them by DHV’ing…Mystery is basically giving the girl opportunities to DHV to him (besides their looks), to impress him and earn his interest enough to even care about having C1 with them.

Julien’s self-amusement frame is similar, it’s just Mystery Method turbo-charged for 2016…Julien self-amusing isn’t seeking C1 with girls, he’s just DHV’ing until he has A2 and then he disqualifies them HARDCORE and loops back to A1 over and over and over stacking devalidations (to compete with this ADD culture where she’s gonna have 50 Tinder chodes txting her that same night, he needs to make enough emotional impact to stand out from the herd), until she’s CRAVING his C1 and literally grabbing him almost demanding it.

The whole frame is basically “I’m a high-value guy, and I’m just naturally DHV’ing because I have so much value, and I know you all want me but if you want me to want YOU, you have to impress me and stand out from all the other girls in my harem who look just as good or better than you.” But girls don’t WANT to try to earn the interest of a guy who hasn’t DHV’ed yet.

“This is making me want to go out to bars. Jesus, Tyler is a fucking genius.”

lol watch the lock-in vid I linked with Mystery/Lovedrop. It’s like watching chessmasters explain the game. Every time I rewatch/re-read the oldschool stuff like that it makes me want to go out and sarge just to like, spend the night practicing locking into sets because it looks so simple and obvious to do lol

Part of why I got so into PUA was the stuff in that Tyler digest was NEW back then, like Tyler was writing it so you’d be reading LRs from guys going out and then Tyler would drop some massive epiphany or you’d be looking through the recent archives and see something like “How to pickup for real” and it’s like “holy SHIT I have to go try this!!!!” or “How to steal a girl with high buying temperature” or “chick crack” and be like holy shit I have to go try this!!!!!

Maybe I’ll rewatch MM from the start this week just as a refresher, it’s easy to forget a lot of this stuff over the years.

“Let me see, will I spend time reading The Man’s weak ass shit, or Tyler (Owen)? Lol, talk about a question that answers itself.”


on July 5th, 2016 at 6:49 pm
Original Link

“Ok, so how do you really know if you’ve got an actual cold approach?”

There are tons of situations where it’s clearly a cold approach. Like a girl walking into the room yapping with her friends while you’re out of her line of vision and you go tap her on the shoulder from behind is a cold approach. Basically if you aren’t on her radar at all when you approach, that’s a cold approach. Like Krauser’s stuff is primarily all pure legit cold approach (and props to him for that).

“I mean, based on so much of what YaReally writes, I wonder if a lot of my cold approaches are really warm approaches.”

Ya, most of them are. It’s not a big deal, most people only do warm approach. Naturals often do what LOOKS like cold approach, but is actually warm approach because they wait for iois or AIs (green lights aka A2) before they actually open, which inflates their success rate because they’re only opening receptive girls, but also reduces their selection (aka if the HB9 doesn’t make eyes with them cause she’s too busy with other shit, but the aggressive HB6 comes up to feel their biceps, guess which one they’re most likely going to end up taking home lol)

“Even in bars new to me, I start chatting up bouncers, bartenders, waitresses, other men, etc., so I start building value before I even approach a woman. Hence, lots of approaches will be warm–maybe all, even in a new bar.”

Yup. Lots of what Mystery did was warming the room up so he would have easy opens and AIs and pAImAI to capitalize on. There’s nothing wrong with it, but it’s different from pure cold approach where the girl has no idea what your value is when you open her.

on July 6th, 2016 at 8:23 am
Original Link

@hank holiday
Chick who sneered at coffee wasn’t in A2 ’cause she isn’t complying…a girl in A2 wouldn’t care about what the offer was for, she’d just be happy to be hanging out with a guy she’s attracted to. So there’s a situation where I would calibrate, interpreting that as “okay she’s non-compliant right now, so I need to DHV more and get A2”, and backing OFF my offer completely and just going into more A1 DHV stuff (routines, stories, cold reads, chick crack, push/pull, whatever), until I’m getting enough A2 to pitch for the meet again.

Tyler summarizes it as:

“let’s go get food”
“no I can’t leave my friends”
“joke joke tease tease”
“let’s go get food”
“OKAY!!! :)”

lol…get it? Like, resistance is the indicator to DHV more. It doesn’t necessarily mean the set is over or that you CAN’T get attraction, a lot of guys think that the set is done the first time she rejects an offer or turns her face to give the guy the cheek during a kiss etc because they pitched for those things before they had solid A2, but really all it means is back off and try DHV’ing some more before you give up.

““Because your mom died young and you are doing it to honor her memory.””
““I gotta head out now. You get off work here soon right?””

lolol I just wanted to quote those right after eachother.

That set sounded like it went better but 1) you bailed on the routine, part of what makes the routine solid is the sexual aspect of it BECAUSE doing sexual humor (man to woman communication) in the daytime is scary, so only a guy who’s used to good reception would do that, and 2) you steered things into friendly chat territory again instead of man to woman. And then 3) again no real qualifying her before the coffee offer. Like she was receptive enough to be in A2 enough to work with, but the difference between “so you’re a nurse? That’s cool bla bla what time are you off let’s grab a drink” and “so you’re a nurse? I heard nurses were trouble, I don’t know about you. What do you (insert qualifier question here)? Oh really? Hmm, I’m surprised actually…when I first saw you I thought you were X, but it sounds like you’re actually Y…what time are you off? Let’s grab a drink.” is the first one she could just be any girl that you have a decent vibe with, but the second is like, she’s said/done something that impresses you (even if you’re bullshitting in reality lol).

That said, you did much better here in making statements instead of questions, sounds like your vibe was better, you told a good story at the start that she got into (storytelling is a DHV, you can tell a boring story in an interesting way through the pacing, emphasis, wording it so there’s a punchline etc), and she sounded receptive enough to work with.

But again we come to the non-compliance and bail situation. Think of the offer to go for a drink/coffee as just a compliance test to see how much attraction you have, rather than an actual offer. So if they say no, just DHV some more and then pitch it again. Like:

“What time are you off? Let’s get a drink.”
“Oh I can’t tonight”
“(insert DHV story, routine, cold-read, push/pull, etc)”
“You free tomorrow?”

VS “Let’s get a drink.” “I can’t tonight” “You free tomorrow” where your value is still the same the second time as it was the first time. There’s never a downside to DHV’ing MORE, like even if she likes you and wants to hang out but is legitimately busy tonight, DHV’ing a bit more and then offering another day is still a solid play.

“and I think I should push it at least ONE step further if girl is receptive.”

Yup, you calibrate on the fly. And remember you can always calibrate BACK…like if you go too sexual by accident you can always go “sorry, I’m still half drunk from last night, I say stupid shit sometimes lol So anyway bla bla” and just “pace her reality” (show that you understand she viewed what you said as miscalibrated) and lead it into being smoothed over then change subjects.

“Plus I NEED some resistance or outright fiestyness from the girl ESPECIALLY if I am tired, because I need that to get me in a fun vibe and to have some of HER energy to work with.”

I prefer the feisty girls partly for this reason. I hate having to get a shy quiet girl to slowly open up, it’s torture to me lol

“THEN go into more neutral things”

Right, the idea is that you want to demonstrate that you CAN be sexual, but also that you don’t have to harp on it, you can pull back and be normal/cool too. But when you’re normal without ever being sexual you get into that friendly chat zone.

“DHV here. Something about how I am fun and girls like me.”

Remember there’s a TON of ways to DHV, you don’t have to necessarily talk about yourself and what girls think of you (which can come off as try-hard).

That’s for stories but check out the “chick crack” “busting chicks on their mannerisms” “and “how to pick up chicks, like, for real” sections of the Tyler Digest too.

Basically you want to be able to get resistance and think “okay, I should bust her on how she said that, or I should tell this DHV story, or I should do that other push/pull thing”. Like “Oh I can’t tonight” “Tinder date, hey?” “lolol (BT Spike) no no I just have a thing to do!” “A thing named Raoul, your Tinder date.” “lolol omg shut up!!” “When your Tinder date tonight turns out to be a creepy old man, you should have a drink with me tomorrow and restore your faith in men.” “lolol maaaaybe…I don’t even KNOW you” “My name is hank, now you know me, problem solved!” “lol omg what if you’re a serial killer or something (shit-test)” “Oh I am, how could you tell? Was it the (whatever)?” “lol totally” “What time are you free tomorrow so I know what time to have my ax sharpened by? (assuming the sale and referring back to the call-back humor that’s spiking her BT)”

Like that’s a much different vibe than just doing rapport and then going for the meet, ya know? None of that is brilliant stuff, it’s just understanding “she resists, so back off and do a cold-read (the Tinder date thing) and then because it pumps her state, keep referring back to it, then when she’s at a “maaaybe” and starts to shit-test, just do standard shit-test passing agree & amplify with the call-back humor and now that she’s got a higher BT, push for the meet again”

So to boil it down in a simple formula (’cause I know this probably all seems overwhelming):

DHV until she’s lol’ing, then qualify her, if she doesn’t play along and try to qualify herself, go back to DHV’ing until she’s lol’ing more, then try to qualify her again, and repeat that until she DOES qualify herself, then reward her for qualifying herself with an invite to hang out…if she rejects the invite, go all the way back to DHV’ing until she’s lol’ing more, and then qualify her again and/or pitch the invite, and just repeat that until either she’s into it or she’s on the fence and starts shit-testing you and then you just pass those shit-tests and you’re gold.

Remember that the more ballsy your opener is (like a big sexual whambam opener), the harder it’ll be for your brain to do it when you’re out of state. That’s why Scray was recommending the opinion opener stuff where it’s a lot easier when you’re out of state to tell a story about your buddy who has a jealous girlfriend that found pics of his ex on his phone and is making them delete them and is that crazy or normal girl behavior, VS going up out of state like “So I was fucking this girl in the ass the other day and–” lol

“So I think for these girls just focus on opening them anyway. Get used to just being social with them. Then later maybe I can get to open them mantowoman.”

Ya, that’s why I’m not pushing you too hard (yet). I went from legit social retard/hermit to sarging…it’s a little different than going from having a social life to adding in sarging. I had never talked to girls at ALL really, let alone saying sexual things. It actually took me something like 6 months of going out before I tried my frist legitimate sexual opener and I VIVIDLY remember saying it and fully expecting to have them tell me to fuck off and hate me and get thrown out of the bar lol But instead the set blew open and one of the girls kept talking about it with me even when her friends showed up.

Scray’s right in that to get anywhere you WILL have to push this stuff, that’s just, there’s no getting around that. That’s how it works. So he’s sort of trying to save you time by jumping right to addressing that because THAT’S the next door that needs to be opened for you to get better results.

But I also get the “working up to it” thing. Especially doing sober daygame on girls you aren’t into after walking around all day looking for sets etc. Just try to take it one thing at a time…like make it your conscious goal on your next outing to do a specific roleplay or cold read or push/pull or qualifier the second you get a lol from them. An oldschool move was when they lol make fun of their laugh or tell them their nose crinkles up when they laugh etc, it usually gets them to laugh even harder and then you’re seeing what pumping Buying Temp looks like and how it helps shift the interaction.

And understand that A3 is where things are falling apart for you. Ping for their compliance and if it’s too low, jump back to more DHV’ing and try again the next time you spike their BT.

“Also, working on my stack more will help a bunch as well. So I can just grit my teeth and do it anyway.”

Ya stacking is key at the start. I don’t have a conscious stack in mind when I go out but I’ve been doing this a long time so most of my “stack” is just internalized, like when a girl says/does something I just automatically go into this thing I always say/do when a girl says/does that. But at the start I had to consciously plan that stuff out and try it out and learn to calibrate it etc

“Naaah You aren’t creepy at all.”

Big ioi right here. But then: “and chatted some more” lol

“Could have gone with “We have the same since of humor. See that’s why we’ll never get along. . .” and go from there.”


The fact that you’re starting to be able to realize WHAT you should even DO afterward is progress. Even these days, after my nights out I’ll run through each interaction in my head and think of “what could I have done better?” and picture how would I get each set to be an actual pull, what ioi’s were there and did I capitalize on them properly, could I have gone sexual sooner, should I have qualified her harder? etc etc

“But like I say, I’ve just got to get more experience before I can push to get passed that, Its a major obstacle for me.”

Slow & steady. It’s a long journey with a rough start as you figure out wtf is happening in your interactions to even know what to do. And all of this is just warm-up for when you get to a real city with more girls so that you aren’t starting from ground zero, you’ll already have a bunch of skills you can build off and save yourself a ton of time/effort.

“hmmm. I need more things to open on.”

I’d say have a couple self-amusing things like the hair opener (think about stuff that makes YOU laugh to open with, ideally a bit sexual (or that transition into a sexual comment nicely like the makeup sex thing), watch some YouTube vids of guys doing street pickup saying random stuff (like LimitlessEXP and Simple Pickup) and maybe you’ll get some ideas. And an indirect nice safe opinion opener (that’s sexual, ideally) like Scray says where if you aren’t in a great state and just need to start a conversation.

Even with your “guess where she’s from” thing, you go into telling them some stuff about the area to show that you know about it, but like, there’s no real Buying Temp spikes in that…VS something like “oh you’re from Korea? I heard Korean girls are trouble.” or “I heard Korean girls are bad in bed. They just lay there like starfish.” etc where you’re going to cause more of an “omg did he really just say that” vibe and possibly a “no that’s not true!!” response (qualifying herself) etc

Don’t let this feel too overwhelming…the only reason we’re throwing a bunch of shit at you all at once is because you’re getting to A2 so we can see that you CAN be getting results, but the first stage of learning always involves the guy doing semi-random stuff infield (like down the road all your Field Reports will start out and flow pretty much the same, but right now on FR starts out with this, another set starts out with that, another set starts out like the first but then goes into this other thing that came to your mind in the moment, etc). So we’re trying to get you onto a repeatable/consisent path. A routine stack and understanding the “go back to DHV’ing if she doesn’t play along” loop will help with that.

on July 6th, 2016 at 9:22 am
Original Link

@The Man
“as you know I was implying a universal generalization”

Can’t make a universal generalization on it. It’s like saying the universal generalization for eating is that you eat when you’re hungry, but that’s not really the case. Lots of people eat when they aren’t hungry for various reasons. It’s not a binary “the only reason anyone eats is because they are hungry”

“So YaReally ….. you are implying a woman never ever flaunts?”

If she has reason to believe that she may meet a high-value man, she may flaunt, but that flaunting is specifically for those potentially high-value men. If she has no reason to believe she may meet a high-value man…I mean, do you think girls get dolled up when they’re sitting at home watching a Netflix marathon on a Sunday afternoon downing a bucket of ice cream?

But even that girl who’s not flaunting can be attracted when a guy displays his value.

“You are implying confidence is a subcomm, and not a psychic element contingent on possessing winning convictions.”

Of course. I mean, that’s not really debatable lol TONS of people are confident about all SORTS of shit they don’t ACTUALLY have justification to be confident about lol You think every asshole manager at a company who thinks he knows what’s best ACTUALLY knows what’s best and isn’t just some dipshit promoted because he’s the CEO’s son as he runs the company into the ground completely convinced that he’s a genius businessman? I can think of a million examples of people who are delusionally confident without actually possessing anything to justify it.

And you can fake it, that’s what the first part of PUA is based on. You may not feel like you deserve the girl but you just act as if you do or do the things that a guy who DOES feel like he deserves her would do and, to her, she interprets it the same way.

“So your task is just to display the subcomms that have been socially conditioned to imply confidence, and no more, wrt instilling ongoing female attraction?”

Pretty much. I mean, you need to do more to actually get the lay (like leading things forward, managing logistics, escalating without triggering ASD, etc) but to get basic attraction ya, you just DHV. That’s A1 in Mystery Method. DHV until she’s showing signs of attraction. Basic stuff.

Most of the girls I know who have vids of them fucking around, it’s the guy initiating the recording. A HUGE number of girls are 100% receptive and excited by BEING recorded (which sort of goes to show how little they fear social judgement now that society has empowered them to act slutty, compared to years back), or will volunteer that they think it’s hot to be recorded, but I can’t think of a girl who’s actually taken the iniative like busted out a camera.

I actually made it a mini-goal for a while to see how many girls I could get to let me record us lol Lost the vids a few harddrives ago (this was back near the start of my PUA journey lol) but it was a big eye-opener to me how many of them were cool with it and trusted me (half the time they never even watched them, like just the act of BEING recorded was hot to them).

So I think it’s entirely possible for girls to HAVE collections of vids of themselves fucking guys that they didn’t happen to password protect or hide well espeically phone-recorded footage and especially in this current age of tech/sexuality, but I’m skeptical about a girl pulling out her own GoPro to record her adventures, although 1) that mental image is hilarious because I picture it being strapped to her forehead like one of those GoPro sports people doing some risky stunt, and 2) I’ve known girls that if you told me they did it I would go “ehhh ya, I could see them doing that”, but they’re pretty rare.

“Got me thinking about Julien’s views on group theory – seems he advocates going straight for the girl first, while yes acknowledging the friends. Love to hear your thoughts on how he seems to diverge from MM group theory.”

Just an adaptation to current culture. I’ve noticed myself that girls are MUCH less cockblocky these days, because the cockblock girls all have orbiters (Tinder, social media, fuckbois, etc) that they can go fuck…so like, in the past if you took their friend away they had to get home on their own (paying for a cab and going home to a dildo etc). But now half the time I’m engaging my target, her friend who SHOULD be cockblocking me (I’ve even purposely escalated to sucking face and shit just to see if I could get them to finally cockblock lol) is busy txting on her phone setting up her own booty call…so it actually BENEFITS her for me to fuck her friend because then she gets to run off to her fuckboi Tinder booty call she’s catfishing, since no one in the bar is trying to fuck her. Whereas if her friend wasn’t getting hit on, she would have to be the “bitch” and ditch her friend to go meet up with that booty call.

So I think Julien is basically adapting to that and saying just bee-line for the girl you want and if you get obstacles deal THEN deal with them.

That all said, MM is also setting up a “make the girl choose you” frame VS a “choose the girl” frame, which is more important the more options a girl has. Like to get an HB9 with infinite options it’s a lot more solid to get her to chase you than you to chase her, because EVERYONE is chasing her so you just blend into the pack. Like in a stripper’s reality EVERY guy who comes into her stripclub wants her so they’re all lower value than her…but the one guy that SHE wants because she sees some kind of value in him, that guy is automatically higher-value to her than all the guys chasing her because SHE’S chasing HIM.

So that’s where ignoring the target and DHV’ing in front of her to her friends for her to observe and then teasing her and ignoring her and qualifying her and then letting her slowly win you over etc comes in.

Personally my guess is that because so many girls have so many options now, Mystery Method is going to come back into being the optimal strategy. For a while there before social media got big, just plowing the girls directly was solid because guys didn’t have the balls to do that yet and social media didn’t offer them ways to do it while preserving their egos (being ballsy on Tinder or OKCupid etc). But my personal guess is that as even 6s end up with dozens of options any given night of the week, optimal strategy is going to be either plow for the Same Night Lay like Julien is describing, or go full Mystery Method where she’s demanding you exchange numbers and hang out.

…which would be hilarious to me because when The Game came out we all shit bricks that “now EVERYONE is going to use Mystery Method oh no!!!” like the sky was falling. Turns out the Red Pill appeared and shit all over Mystery while RSD switched to pretending they aren’t running MM under the surface as YouTube Simple Pickup style “say whatever random thing for laughs without using any real strategy” picked up popularity, so now NO ONE uses Mystery Method but I predict us oldschool guys cleaning up because we know how to use it lol It’s part of why I’ve been recommending MM to guys over the past couple years as I’ve watched this shift building momentum. I think guys are going to benefit a lot from learning proper Mystery Method over more spray ‘n pray tactics.

But like, this shit is fucking GOLD, he’s laying it all out for anyone to learn:

Pay attention to what he says at the start about scratching the hand and stroking their hair. Then pay attention at 4:00 where he DHVs about beauty and then at 4:15 he does on of his classic routines about what’s rare is bla bla and then negs the unpleasant “No” girl who’s basically the bitchy one of the group and, when she feels the peer pressure of everyone laughing at her and feels the sting of the neg (watch her face as she does her “shit, I just got burned” expression as the other girls laugh (giving Mystery preselection and group approval aka DHV’ing)), and then disqualifies her by calling her a stranger (implying she still has to impress him), then he goes “but I AM curious” to bring it back around to rapport/comfort and she goes “HMMM” sarcastically and goes “okay” trying to pretend she doesn’t care (bitch-shield exterior, trying to save face and hold the frame that she’s still the high-value one)

But then watch at 5:08 lol Oops, fixing her hair. Then at 5:15 watch her hands, she instinctively goes to scratch the top of her hand but right as her fingertips touch it she aborts and shifts her bracelet instead (because she’s consciously aware “shit I’m touching my hand like he said, abort abort!!”) Mystery goes back to ignoring her and just DHV’ing with his passionately teaching about seducing women etc (all DHV stuff). Notice that she’s paying more attention to what he’s saying now and at 6:23 she chimes in finally contributing/playing along and he’s basically paced her reality with a story she can relate to, then at 6:30 she itches her neck just like he said at the start lol

and then the finale bringing it all together at 6:45 the bitchy chick finally admits she’s noticed she’s doing that stuff, as if it’s a big revelation to her, but Mystery’s just like “I know…I’m well aware.” lol Then her face at the end as the video cuts out is like “goddamnit, I hate that I’m now attracted to this guy” as she goes to fix her hair AGAIN but stops herself with her hand under her chin and her face is like “dammit!!!” lol It’s hilarious when you know what to look for.

Is any of this overt or blatant? No it’s all subtle as fuck. And guys who have a surface level understanding of the game will be like “she didn’t feel his biceps or jump on his dick or ask him blatant ioi questions and he didn’t stick his dick in her on the video so this is all bullshit” lol But if you understand what’s going on it’s all blatant and there’s no reason he couldn’t bang that girl with a little more qualifying/comfort and isolation. That’s WHY Mystery is like “I know” when she says she’s been playing with her hair. We learn to spot those tiny little iois that other people disregard as insignificant.

And for @Hank Holiday here’s an example of Mystery running “you and I would never get along” so you can see what it’s supposed to do (he builds to it at 2:00):

Notice that he does it once he has the girl giving him A2. Then she WANTS to know why they won’t get along. VS before A2 where she won’t CARE if they won’t get along. Make sense?

And look at how high-value he looks locked-in (the girls facing him as if they’re gaming him) with those 3 girls vying for his attention. To any other girl (or guy) in the club who sees him, he looks like a celebrity. He’s doing exactly what he explained in that other video about how to work the room and display high value. Just pure logical strategy and understanding psychology and nothing any other guy can’t do when they know how to do A1 (DHV’ing and spiking their BT etc).

on July 6th, 2016 at 9:39 am
Original Link

@hank holiday
That vid cuts away after he says “we’re too similar” but just the timing of when he does it and his tonality with it (a teasing push/pull type vibe) should give you some ideas.

Also this might help you construct your own personal routines:

Understand that it’s the structure that makes them work, not what the routine is actually about. I can talk about the empty glass on the desk beside me and turn it into an entertaining story said with passion, but that comes from learning to understand the structure of how to hook.

Like say I’m starting with “Look at this glass, it’s completely empty.” If I want to turn it into self-depreciation I could say “Just like my soul (exaggerated frown)” and get a laugh. Or if I wanted to turn it into a cold-read “Just like your soul, Sally.” and get a laugh. Or if I wanted to turn it into qualifying her I’d add “Are you a “the glass is half empty” or “half full” type? You seem like a half empty type…” “what I do?? I’m not!!” (because no one wants to be the downer type) and then I can either spike her BT with a joke/tease like “Must be because you have resting bitch-face lol” or I can go for a deeper connection like “I don’t know, I guess I don’t know you well yet…Maybe I’m guilty of judging a book by its cover. I think a lot of people do that, judge people off their first impression, but I think you have to spend time with someone before you really get to know their real self. I bet people judge you all the time because you’re hot.” (and then she can add her own “omg they do!!” stories and now we’re in rapport/comfort).

All of that is just off the top of my head off of something stupid like that empty glass lol But because I understand the STRUCTURE of this stuff, I know WHERE I want to take the conversation (based on calibrating to our vibe and her state), and because I have field experience I understand HOW to transition into spiking her Buying Temp or qualifying her or building deeper rapport etc from wherever I am in the conversation.

Right now you’re learning where you need to take the conversation TO, but don’t know how to get it to GO there yet, especially winging it on the fly improvising…so planning out routines and ways to handle potential common responses will help. Like if you think back to all the reactions you’ve ever gotten to the “you stole my hair” thing, they’ll probably fall into 3 categories: agreeing and lol’ing and playing along, disagreeing but still lol’ing, or not understanding what you’re saying. So why not sit down and think “okay if they respond positive, what can I say that will spike her Buying Temperature MORE, maybe I can keep that joke going or tease her about her nose wiggling when she laughs or do a cold read…” and just have general plans for common situations.

Then you’ll hit the field and completely forget half of it and fuck up the other half of it and kick yourself till the next time you go out and manage to apply like 10% of it and then next time maybe 50% of it, etc etc Welcome to the process. πŸ™‚

on July 6th, 2016 at 10:33 am
Original Link

“nah dude. has little to do with the bits. you are in a rush to BE FUNNY MAKE HER LAUGH. that’s what you gotta kill. ”

lol reading your examples for him of what you would do is funny to me because I didn’t expect your game to be so deep rapport-based. I don’t go for the “you must be the nurturing type” for a while, I like to ramp her A2 and make her qualify hard before I’ll give her any positive cold reads or “who do you think you would be in that movie?” stuff. But maybe that’s partly because I don’t care about that stuff lol that’s the boring part of the interaction for me, I have more fun in the BT-spiking stage where we go back and forth (not necessarily because I need the validation but I just enjoy that part of the interaction more than talking about her gay hopes and dreams), so I try to do the absolute bare minimum amount of rapport/comfort possible lol

“lolno. esp not in daygame, esp not now for you. you need to focus on just not being mr. funnyguy. that’s it. that’s all. push to A2-A3. keep up with the cold reads. practice being SUPER SINCERE. balance that with being funny.”

Ya I mainly do night game where BT Spiking is more key, so when I’m interacting with a girl in daygame I’m probably spiking her temp higher than I need to…BUT, I’m still LEADING it off those spikes which I think is the key point here. Hank is shooting for the BT spikes and then not doing anything with them when he gets them, or shooting for more without any real intent to take it into A3. Whereas I’m sticking more in the spiking zone, but still moving things forward by lacing in future projections of us having sex or “being together” or having some kind of relationship or meeting up for our date tomorrow or going for drinks later like “oh you’re (cold-read that makes her laugh)…god, I don’t know about that laugh. When we go for drinks later I’m going to have to pretend not to know you. Normally I wouldn’t forget your name till AFTER we’ve had sex but with a laugh like that I’m going to want to forget any of this ever happened.” It’s all BT-spiking stuff and not comfort/rapport at all, BUT it’s implying that we’re going for drinks and going to have sex and it has a sexual tone to it etc etc so it’s still leading things forward and it’s disqualifying her and push/pull etc.

It’s not so much whether she’s laughing or not, it’s more whether you’re leading things forward. Which is why I say going from A2 (her showing interest) to A3 (her earning him showing interest back) is the main focus for him right now…whether he does it through rapport “you must be the nurturing type” getting to know her soul or through humor…the point is he has to push through into A3.

“and esp in a relationship where the woman is there controlling the man and keeping him under her thumb, she’s going to control his level of knowledge regarding her past…tightly.”

I think the key is probably that when the girl doesn’t respect her man or doesn’t think he’ll leave her, she gets a lot less careful about hiding her past (or present lol) from him. I can’t think of any of these stories I’ve read where the guy is an alpha non-judgemental badass finding this stuff, it’s always some sad sack madonna/whore complex deadbedroom chode guy who’s relationship is already on it’s way to shitsville.

All good advice in general in the rest of that rant lol

on July 6th, 2016 at 11:18 am
Original Link

“but yeah, I like deep rapport-vibe game because it makes the C&F breaks WAY more effective for me.”

lol it’s just funny because I’m still picturing you in your “HEY BITCH SUCK MAH DICK” phase from a few years back and now all of a sudden you’re like 6:45 in this episode:

It’s like wtf, when did Scray stop being an asshole?? lol basically this is mrw reading your current style of game at 1:02:

“‘HOW THE FUCK WOULD I KNOW, I just met you! lol’”

whew…THERE’s the Scray I know. lol

“but see, it’s good that you point out that stuff because it gets me to think ‘okay, what else is going on out there? what am i leaving out?’”

That HUGE BT-spike you throw in at the end is an important note. You’re not going right into pure comfort, you’re still just sort of fucking with her spiking her temp and basically telling her “that was bullshit, you haven’t done enough for me to know who you are yet or actually give a shit about this stuff”. Which kind of brings me back to the A3 thing: making her feel like she’s earned your legitimate interest.

on July 6th, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“This is a much more inappropriate relationship (he’s her direct superior; basically he started banging the secretary within weeks of his new position lol) but here they are.”

Most guys will end up banging co-workers and inflate their actual value to justify it. Because for most guys being “superior” at work is basically the only time they’re seen as high-value by anyone lol Plus they’re GIVEN isolation and time to build rapport etc because they work together all the time and over time that guy is going to probably stumble across flipping the right switches to be attractive to the girl. Like not this guy specifically, he might be some pimp outside of work I don’t know, but in general in the Blue Pill world using that position of authority is pretty much the go-to method for guys. It’s pretty pathetic lol I look at guys like that and it’s like man, you can’t get other girls? You gotta risk lawsuits and job loss and drama shit chasing some 7 at work? and just shake my head.

“Anyways it was incongruous so I figured something was up. It was. A dude who knows both of us talked to me and was like, “Hey Forge, I don’t know if you’re interested in (FWB) but she just started dating this guy again. Apparently they’ve been on again/off again for a few years but this time it seems serious.””

lololol I was LITERALLY all set to respond “she has another dude” when I read the paragraphs above. It’s funny how obvious the pattern is when you know what to look for lol I’ve flat out called girls out with “you can just tell me you’re dating someone I don’t care lol” when I can tell and they get all aw shucks how’d you know about it.

“She’s a real good-girl type (I know AWALT”


“Or rather the dude she just didn’t stop banging when she started other dude again.”

This. She doesn’t know how it’s gonna work out with him so why not keep you around just incase. Monkey branch and all. Who knows, you might start being Commitment McProvider to her all of a sudden and be a better option.

“She’s getting the emotional talk from BF, probably he takes a lot of her time (making me an occasional thing), and she doesn’t want incriminating phone evidence.”

Yup. More the him taking her time up though than the evidence thing. She just doesn’t really have a use for you beyond sex. NOW YOU KNOW HOW WOMEN FEEL YOU PLAYER. lol

“I’m just holding frame here and letting her keep it a ‘secret’ from me so she can keep on coming over w/o feeling guilty”

Yup. Scarcity/mild one-itis.

“but probably soon I’ll start to hear how she can’t do this anymore and so on. And at first it’ll be a shit test but later it’ll be the reason she just doesn’t come over anymore.”

Yup. The irony is that you still fucking her makes it more likely that she’ll work out with that guy because she’s getting her Alpha Fucks even if he’s some chode. If you cut her off, he would have more of a burden to bear to keep her satisfied and it would be harder for him to live up to what she needs and she’s more likely to see him as not good enough and missing you etc.

The funniest way to handle it is to tell her you just want her to be happy and want her to focus on him and trying to make it work so you don’t think you should hang out anymore and basically cut her off lol Then you seem like the noble white knight but really you’re just dumping all the burden on the other guy and removing all the good feels you give her. If she’s not fucking you the way you want then she gets no good feels from you or you’re just helping the other guy.

But once she DOES come back to you, she’ll end up less satisfied with what YOU’RE offering ’cause she’s had a dose of LTR commitment shit, and she’ll pull the shit-tests and stuff out more to try to get you to date her instead of just fuck her.

So there’s a time limit. Get sarging. πŸ™‚

“I told myself as soon as I got a plate I couldn’t stop gaming even if I wanted to lol but I kinda did. Predictable. I’m merely human and haven’t hit a tear with PUA yet.”

lol yup. Happens to everyone, especially early on in their pickup career, so don’t sweat it.

“And my ‘down’ feeling was like 80% gone for the rest of the day. Just from that flirty convo with a new girl.”

That’s why we sarge and keep more than one girl on the go. πŸ™‚ It’s a lot easier to lose a fuckbuddy when you have a couple more on the go and/or can get a new one after you mourn lol

“If I can keep that up, things might go a bit longer yet and if this relationship doesn’t work out I’ll still be a strong, sexy prospect for her”

Just remember: the more you do, the less HE has to do. You’ll be her default “run back into his arms” regardless of whether it ends tomorrow or a year from now and regardless of why it ends, even if you stone-cold cut her off from your value right this second. Like, you don’t need to fuck her any more times to “cement” you being the guy she runs back to if it goes to shit or the guy lets himself get beta’ized. So you can cut her off whenever you want, or let it drag out, whatever you wanna do, long as you understand how the dynamic works.

And to address this bit from Sentient:

“FWIW – you can still keep her in your rotation but amp up the alpha fux to 110%, more dominance… she will use you for this and get her relationship feelz from the other guy… until he proposes…”

The reason I’d rather do a takeaway instead of amping it up is because she’s going to start to feel guilty lying to the other guy (the better you fuck her the more guilty she’ll feel) and bail on you or bring you a bunch of drama or try to get you to be as committed as him (drama) etc so you’re still going to lose her and she’s probably not going to see flaws in him because her life feels “fulfilled” with both of you in it (doesn’t matter where she’s getting AF from, just that she’s getting it) so it’s gonna take longer. Whereas a takeaway forces her to feel the complete loss of AF and since he, presumably, can’t provide AF, she’s going to see his flaws faster and is more likely to bail and come running back to you and then you have her full attention again.

@kfg @hank @etc
“Yet a Cambodian can tell whether that piece of fabric is intended for a man, woman or child at a mere glance.”

You guys make me lol about this cultural knowledge stuff. Like these western asian chicks are all super deep into their culture and know the difference between a sarong and a kimono and a kids kimono lol A few of my social circles are full of minority chicks and none of them know fuck all about their culture lol They wouldn’t have a clue you were holding up a kids kimono unless it was just blatantly smaller to where anyone could figure it out. They’re not all going home to pour tea ceremonies and do calligraphy as they practice their parents’ secret lineage of kung fu lol They’re just popping on Netflix and watching Game of Thrones and surfing Facebook.

“i like the deep rapport stuff cause that gets them falling in love with you super fast.”

Remember though: they want deep rapport with you faster than they do with hank at this stage, ’cause you have your subcomms/vibe/sexuality/etc down already. You going into a “you’re a nurturing person” in the first 30 seconds is cool, but for hank that first 30 seconds he’s still trying to get them to even WANT a deep connection with him.

on July 6th, 2016 at 12:38 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“Well, that was weird timing, she just told me lol”

lol that happened faster than I expected, I thought she’d fuck you a few more times before the guilt swelled over.

“She framed it as some dude asked to date her”

lol works in two ways: 1) artificially increases her value to maybe make you jealous and commit to her to try to win her and 2) takes accountability off of her, she’s just a passive leaf blowing in the wind.

“so she’s been thinking about it the past few days and she didn’t want to say to me that she wanted to but I mean this wouldn’t be a conversation otherwise.”

lol meanwhile from elsewhere you know they already have a history and they’ve probably been dating and fucking from the day her txting died down.

This is your “good girl” πŸ˜‰

“Also, that’s not what I heard elsewhere.”

No reason to call her out on that. There’s no benefit in doing it. But remember it when she comes back to you and you catch one-itis and think she’s a flawless unicorn.

“Sounds like she’s trying to make it sound like she’s giving me advance notice when it’s actually a bit belated.”

She’s just playing the optimal strategy. She hasn’t fully decided, because he’s probably not that great, and she’s feeling guilty so she’s trying to be honest. You can bet she isn’t telling HIM about YOU lol She’s confessing to the guy who probably won’t judge her.

This is where I would say “I just want you to be happy babe you know I’m not a relationship guy so if you need to go find a husband (making fun of how lame what she’s doing is) I understand. Let’s put a pin in things so you can really try to make this work. But I might take advantage of you in the linen closet at the wedding ;)”

Like I would respond that to her txt right now. That txt does a bunch of stuff: puts you in the white knight high value position, shows you have abundance and don’t care if she’s gone but gives juuust enough “I just want you to be happy” for her to feel like “but Forge cares about me maybe I can win him over if I go back to him…” when she’s bored of this relationship. By saying “let’s put a pin in things” you’re implying that this is temporary which lets her know she can come back to you in a few months, you aren’t mad or anything. And it lets her relieve her guilt because she can tell herself “yeah! I AM trying this for REALSIES!!! I’m a good girl!!”

It shows her you don’t judge her, and it shows her you aren’t butthurt, and it puts more pressure on the other guy because you’re implying she’s looking for a husband and going to get MARRIED etc etc making it sound silly which, as we know from Boyfriend Destroyers causes her to go “nooo it’s not THAT serious omg!!” and see his faults etc etc

And then the ending bit is so that she knows you’re still the Lover and you’re implying that even if she’s married you’re still down to fuck her etc which just gives you lots of value…BUT THEN YOU TAKE YOUR ATTENTION AWAY.

So it’s like one final value boost and then she gets no more of the Forge love and attention. You take forever to reply to her txts now, she gets short (not butthurt just not making an effort) responses if any, etc to put the full burden on him and she wonders if you’ve moved on etc etc

I would do that over txt too, like literally as soon as you’re done reading this, no real life conversation lol, so that she feels sudden loss VS getting to do a goodbye and have goodbye sex. Like when a loved one dies in a car accident suddenly and you realize the last time you talked to them you were rude to them and feel WAY worse with WAY more unresolved feelings than when they die slowly in the hospital and you get to say your goodbyes.

on July 6th, 2016 at 12:40 pm
Original Link

“The key point, which is the only reason I commented, was that she did know the difference, even if she only learned it to work in the shop.”

My counter-point would be that if he had her properly attracted (actual A2) she wouldn’t have cared. He could have told her to put on a suit of armor and she’d be like “omg lol you’re crazy” instead of “uh that’s a children’s suit of armor.” just like she would say “sure!!” to late night coffee instead of “uh who drinks coffee at night”

The fact that she’s still thinking/responding logical means he doesn’t have A2 yet is all.

on July 6th, 2016 at 12:41 pm
Original Link

fuck, hit Post too soon:

“The fact that she’s still thinking/responding logical means he doesn’t have A2 yet is all.”

And my reason for pointing that out is just so that he knows to focus more on learning to get A2 rather than focusing on like “oh I should’ve learned which kimonos are for adults and what Camboians wear” and going off in the wrong direction, that’s all.

on July 6th, 2016 at 3:12 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“Do ya think I should cancel and just text something like what you have above? Just be like ‘hey I was thinking and we don’t need to meet, here’s what I think.’”

I would reword it as “hey I’m swamped with work this week (or have a friend coming to town or something, like a reason for not meeting up that isn’t butthurt sounding). I don’t want to drag it out so (and insert my txt basically)”.

“Great txt example btw. I’ll def try to convey that in person if I go that way.”

The thing is you probably won’t lol that’s part of why I say do it via txt. With tonality and touching and eye-contact and stuff and some big dramatic almost-cry-fest (she may even try to pick a fight with you to RATIONALIZE bailing on you, like if she can pick a fight and make you a jerk then she can go chase her new guy with no Alpha Widow leftover mentality for you), you’ll probably end up neutralizing the whole tactic.

The point of doing it over txt the second she confesses that shit is so that she feels a full immediate unexpected sudden takeaway of all the value you were offering and you can’t sabotage yourself by getting gay in person and she can’t pick a fight with you or destroy you in her mind (War Brides tactic), so you basically pause the relationship and freeze yourself in time as this high-value dude to her.

“Possible compromise – have her drive to a public place near my house, then just have a short platonic convo where I don’t go for ‘one last makeout’ or anything. It’s still a bit jarring cause I tend to be pretty aggressively sexual with her when we’re together.”

So what you want to do, with this girl who you’re in a firm Lover frame with and always sexually manhandle, is do NON-LOVER stuff with her like talk about your feels and have a sad feels goodbye where you DON’T be “aggressively sexual” with her (or you DO and give her closure instead of leaving her craving you).

Is that congruent or incongruent, and is that going to demonstrate more or less Providery attributes? And the more Provider you show, what happens to her view of you as a Lover?

“Shit’ll be hard cause I love making out w her and who knows, maybe this relationship takes off and it’s my last chance. But listen to the scarcity in that sentiment.”

That’s why I do it via txt lol I’m not a monster, I catch feels for some of my FBs, especially since I screen hard for girls I’m compatible with and enjoy being around. But right action is right action.

You can DO whatever you want. You can meet up with her and promise her the world. It’s just going to get you a different outcome than cutting her off.

“Also, I should mention I see her from time to time due to social groups so I can’t totally go ghost on her.”

That’s fine, you can go totally ghost on her via txt and just make eye-contact in your social groups but keep as much distance as you can…ideally flaunt other women in front of her etc but basically don’t engage her. Don’t give her free doses of Forge’s Value. You know what happens when a girl gives away the milk for free: you don’t try to commit to her, cuz you’re getting what you want from her. So what do you think happens when you sit down and hang out and give her good feels at all your social gatherings (giving away the milk for free)? No reason to fuck you.

Good luck dude. And the reason we get this situation is we’ve all been here a zillion times lol

on July 6th, 2016 at 3:19 pm
Original Link

“But we all just sort of are led to assume that 18 is the universal limit, cause of porn. It’s almost like society would rather we not know certain things.”

“Not half as rich as all the freshmen girls who’ve become child pornographers in recent years. It must be a strange thing to know that it’s illegal to take a picture of yourself in the wrong state of dress.”

The interesting thing to see will be what happens when society is confronted with the fact that probably a TON of child porn (girls as young as say 12) these days are SELFIES taken by the girls who’s parents gave them a smartphone and society encouraging them to be sexual from an early age.

Like, how the fuck will society process or explain THAT? Who do you charge with a crime in that situation? What happens when some 14yo girl sends naked selfies of herself to her teacher’s phone who she’s angry at for not passing her on an exam etc The Blue Pill cognitive dissonance will be off the charts.

on July 6th, 2016 at 3:51 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“If I have something to say to her it’s not like she’s gonna refuse to do so at a future time if I keep attraction reasonably high.”

Exactly. The problem for most guys in a breakup is that they sabotage the FUCK out of their value and completely tank it at the very end. They embrace all that emo “one last kiss/lay” shit and tells her how much they were starting to care about her and wish things were different and maybe throw out one more commitment offer to try to keep her because of scarcity and the very act of doing all that shit:

1) gives her closure

and 2) is completely incongruent to being a high-value guy with abundant options

It’s basically going, right when she’s deciding which guy to go with, “SURPRISE!! I’m a chode under this alpha lolol fooled you all this time!!!” lol

Relationships are NEVER OVER in 2016. Esp with a chick you fucking see all the time lol I could find an ex from 10 years ago’s Facebook and message her TODAY and probably get back together with her because I broke it off with her at a high attraction point (VS dragging it out until my value was low enough that she broke it off with me, we were headed down different paths but she would never have pulled the trigger so I had to).

All you’re doing is taking a little break so you can go get some new girls and have some new adventures and female energy in your life while she goes off to realize some guy she’s already broken up with multiple times isn’t as fun and high-value as you, ’cause THAT guy entering a monoLTR with her will be slowly dropping his value as he does more and more beta LTR shit which she’ll LOVE at first and then it’ll wear off and get annoying and she’ll lose respect for him.

And then what does she do? Does she txt Forge at 2am saying “heyy” one Saturday night? She does if she still views Forge as the high-value alpha that she MIGHT have been able to convert someday if he even still WANTS her since he hasn’t txted her in forever and maybe she’s made a mistake this new guy is boring ahhhh…but she won’t text Forge if he’s this chode:

Unless you’re in a Hollywood movie. lol

“Then after the Big Reveal she sounded excited when I proposed talking to her. I kinda wonder if this is a ploy to get more commitment from me in more than a deeply-repressed-background-possibility way.”

Yup. She’ll still date him. But she’s hoping you’ll commit. ’cause an AF might become a bit of a BB…but a BB will never become any amount of AF (unless he finds Rollo’s site lol)

on July 6th, 2016 at 4:51 pm
Original Link

qualify (can do cold read or roleplay here too)
***if recptive — #close
*** if not then:

Excellent. Wasn’t sure you’d get it but this is basically MM in a nutshell. She won’t qualify herself to you or play nice unless you have value to her…if you don’t have value, you demonstrate more value. If you have enough value, you progress forward (or loop back to ramp it up some more if you want, which is what Julien does).

But start with trying this formula out. Which means yup, you’re gonna need to plan out some DHVs, teases, cold-reads, qualifiers, etc that you can throw in there.

An oldschool example of qualifying is something like:

“(DHV story about a girl you know who can’t cook) Can you cook? Ordering pizza doesn’t count.”

If she says yes then you can reward her with interest, if she says no then you add “hmm, no good, I need a girl who can cook. Are you rich? We can hire a cook if you are.”

If she says yes (she’s just playing along obviously lol) then you can roleplay your future together in your mansion where she works her ass off to support the two of you but you give her massages etc etc

If she says no then you can add “Can’t cook…not rich…You’re losing me, Sarah.” (in a teasing way) etc etc

It’s our natural instinct to want to qualify to people we view as having value…so if you have no value to her, she’s not going to play along. But if Brad Pitt asked her these questions she would be like “omg I love cooking!!” or, if she says she doesn’t cook and he goes “no good, I need a girl who can cook” she’d offer up “but I can make X dish!!” trying to qualify herself.

This is why I say:

“but it took months of doing that shit and falling flat before i got anywhere, and another long while before i became smooth with it.”

That’s my point. It’s pretty much inevitable that he’s going to fall flat trying for that kind of deep rapport if he isn’t able to spike his value up to her. You have value by default now, so they want that “know your soul” rapport quickly with you…but he’s going in with minimal/no value right now ’cause his subcomms/confidence/sexuality/etc aren’t as tight as yours are now

So I say use some basic BT-spiking/DHV’ing to boost his value (to make up for not having the subcomms that you have on your approaches right now) and THEN go into the deep rapport stuff when she’s giving solid A2 and he’s properly A3/qualified her to EARN his interest in deep rapport (which demonstrates value that he isn’t approaching with).

With that value spike in there first so she’s lol’ing her ass off before getting to know her soul, she’s going to be more in awe of their deep rapport than without it, ’cause no one cares if a homeless person thinks they’re nurturing but they’ll care if Brad Pitt thinks they’re nurturing.

The problem of course is getting stuck in the dancing monkey stage, but that comes back to “and then go into A3 after you have a few ioi’s and she’s laughing and going “omg you’re funny” or “omg you make me laugh” or “omg who ARE you??” or “omg where did you come from??” or “omg what’s your name??”.

on July 6th, 2016 at 5:28 pm
Original Link

@hank holiday
“what can you say to get a girl to say OMG? Like, can you prompt that.”

Ya man, you’ll be doing it all the time at will down the road. πŸ™‚

2nd page more than the 1st:

Page 50:

Some oldschool (SUPER old lol) routines:

Tyler Digest section “teasing her on her mannerisms”

Push/pull, being semi-offensive in a playful/calibrated way, cold-reading her in a semi-offensive way, etc

And of course when she “OMG!!”s you make fun of her valley girl shit which causes it to spike more etc

But remember you’re ultimately just doing it so that you have solid A2 and can move things forward into A3.

“so i can have shitty subcomms and whatever and be lame”

Our shittiest subcomms are probably better than most newbies’ best subcomms is my point lol ESPECIALLY when we’re throwing out a routine we have years of reference experience working and we’re able to pick up on all the tiny little iois and subtle subcomms that show positive reception. VS a guy who’s still not convinced a girl’s into him when she says he’s not creepy, has zero experience being sexual with girls, etc

I’m not saying don’t ever go into comfort/rapport, but there’s no reason to do it before spiking her temp a bit more to make sure he has solid A2. Julien will rev that loop a dozen times before he finally gives her rapport, there’s no real downside to it unless you get STUCK in there and don’t go into A3 and become a dancing monkey.

Like ya he might be able to squeak by into deep rapport off one ioi, but there’s no real downside to spiking her a bit till he’s got more iois and THEN doing exactly the same thing, going for that deep rapport, but with more value to her. It’s the difference between 1 minute and 3 minutes lol

Now if he comes back with a bunch of FRs where he’s spiking their BT like crazy and they’re shooting him mad iois and he’s still not taking it anywhere, cool, I’ll slap it out of him along with you…but right NOW he can do with a little more spiking to just to make sure his value is covered (and give him more positive feedback and more obvious signs that the girl is attracted…he’s never SEEN a girl falling over herself with her Buying Temperature going through the roof attracted to him as she’s laughing and OMG’ing and his brain is going “holy shit I can just push these buttons and MAKE this happen whenever I want!!”, whereas you and I have seen that a bunch of times, I’d say he’s gotta experience some of that for himself before we worry about streamlining his game down to shave off milliseconds on his race time)

on July 6th, 2016 at 5:29 pm
Original Link

@hank @scray
post in mod lol @rollo helllllp!

on July 6th, 2016 at 6:54 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky
“Ya, basically did your text with a few detail alterations to fit my style. Then stuff got complicated cause we cross-texted; she was texting me basically to cancel the meet up w/ some excuse right as I sent it. I was just like, ‘Yeah sure. You’re just afraid you’re gonna end up groping me’”

lol now imagine you had, like a chump, dramatically gotten all ready to win her over, you had a dozen roses and her favorite dinner on the stove to impress her. And she’s just like “hey, can’t make it bye” and leaves YOU hanging.

“She’s just like ‘Yeah right, I’d never DREAM of doing that'”

Solid. She’ll txt you for sex down the road.

“Then I sent one more thing”

“Was basically a ‘I love getting to know how a girl ticks physically. Just BARELY got started w/ you. Ah well.’”

“Meh. I should know better – reeks of trying to keep her – but it could be worse.”

Fuckin guy lol But now you know why you do this via txt. You had ALL THE POWER IN THE FUCKING UNIVERSE to NOT txt that, a MILLION ways to stop yourself, you could have taken a month to decide whether or not to ACTUALLY reply you could have asked for advice here first etc etc

But you didn’t. Now imagine how impulsive and how far you would have tanked your value if you had tried doing this in PERSON, face to face, with her touching you and looking in your eyes and shit.

That’s why I made you txt it. πŸ˜‰

All good tho dude, we’ve all done it lol You’ll look back on this and laugh. And you didn’t fuck things up as bad as you could have but goddamn, like you can SEE how weak that last txt was when you re-read it now VS if you had just not responded after her “DREAM of doing that ;)” txt hey? It’s these little things. She’s hardwired and trained since before she sprouted tits to pick up on them.

She’ll still probably contact you but remember this for the future: your brain and emotions are working AGAINST you. They want you to just try to fuck her immediately with zero regard for future planning or anything, they just see “potential at blowing my load inside a vagina!!” and try to steamroll your logic lol

And like I say, I get bummed out when I lose a quality FB too. I usually purposely give myself a couple days to be bummed out with no judgement…I’ll listen to gay songs that remind me of her, I’ll watch whatever gay movies we watched, I’ll txt-dump a bunch of emo shit to my PUA buddy about her, if it’s on a sarging night I’ll go out and just complain to girls about how sad I am (and exaggerate it a bunch for lols and complain to my buddy “NONE OF THESE GIRLS IS LIKE MY GIRL WAS!!!” again exaggerating it all, I once asked girls if I could call them by her name when we have sex later lol) etc etc and just like, fully let myself mourn. ’cause hey, I care about my girls. And by not bottling it up I just get it all over with at once and then it starts to sound/feel retarded and I get my head back in the game to go sarge proper and meet new girls or have other fuckbuddies over.

You’ll be fine. The field cures all. πŸ˜‰

“Better a shitty or lame routine that moves you forward than an awesome one that doesn’t…”

This. Well said. Even look at my txt I told Forge to send his girl just now…it’s not just txting fluff, every line of it is setting up a non-judgemental frame, DHV’ing, setting up future projection, keeping a sexual tone, assuming a future reunion etc, like it’s all pushing things forward instead of just like “oh that’s too bad I really liked you who IS this guy?” etc bullshit fluff that isn’t going anywhere productive.

“stair stepping is not going to achieve the desired result – that being p in v… if your goal is something else, well then argue away. But if this is your goal…”

The vibe I get is that P in V isn’t even necessarily his goal right now. His goal right now seems to be more just getting comfortable flirting and being sexual with women. Like if I take up Tennis I’m probably going to just get used to holding and swinging the racket and hitting balls against the wall before my goal becomes “beat Roger Federer” lol Give the dude some breathing room, he’ll apply what you and Scray are saying about approaching regardless of state down the road when he’s had some good positive reference experiences while IN state in these daygame mall sets.

Like, fuck, am I the only one here who took months to start saying sexual things in front of girls? I used to have to actively swear out loud as I got ready to go sarge just because I’d never said the word “pussy” out loud before and was terrified at the thought of saying it in public let alone in front of GIRLS when I had never really hung out with them before and was still coming out of Blue Pill chode Nice Guy programming lol

“and the rub is even if you can’t execute… at the break point the girls will mostly push their number on you for following up.”

Problem is he doesn’t know how to DHV enough yet for them to push their numbers on him…he’s just having pleasant asexual conversations right now. There’s no reason for them to want his number. If he had off the charts subcomms while he’s having these go-nowhere convos, cool, or if he had shitty subcomms but his convos were DHV’ing all over the place for him and spiking her BT etc so she’s going “OMG who ARE you??” like she can’t believe she’s met a guy this amazing, cool…but right now he’s in that limbo of not radiating high value by default and not bringing high-value interaction to the table.

on July 6th, 2016 at 6:57 pm
Original Link

@Sentient @Scray @hank
To add to what I just wrote, I’d say the big thing is that WE can all tell hank has value. We know he has a shitload to offer girls. And we have value to girls so for us it’s just “go up and go for comfort and she’ll be receptive and dazzled that you guessed she was nurturing”.

But he’s not displaying that value to the girls yet. To the girls he’s just a random dude making small talk. They don’t see him the way we see him. Ya telling her fortune or that she’s nurturing and cold-reading about her soul can display value, but there’s no reason he can’t be BT-spiking a bit before he does that so he can see what blatant ioi’s look like and feel what it’s like to have them and ensure that he has solid A2 and THEN go into the read her soul stuff.

I don’t get what the push is to not make her laugh a couple times and raise his value in her eyes a little more before getting deep lol It’s like an extra minute or two to the sarge and removes a bunch of potential resistance/hesitation on her part.

on July 6th, 2016 at 7:04 pm
Original Link

“one takes over when I’m in a confident flow state, another in a bad feelz state. When I’m in a bad feelz state I question every impulse. Try to let concious game override. I think I’m learning to do it more, but some shit still creeps through.”

Like Tyler says: “Memory is state accessed.” When you feel shitty, your brain will remember all the times you’ve felt similarily shitty and visualize all the things that could go wrong and make you feel shitty. When you feel like a boss, your brain just remembers all your awesome moments and brushes off negative memories and feeds you more good feels.

“I think the best thing to do is to try and more consistently be out of a negative state. ”

Right. That’s why Tony Robbins has his positivity challenges and shit (I can’t even count the number of those I had to do over a few years to get out of a default negative headspace, I used to be extremely negative (I called it “realistic” like so many jaded/cynical/pessimistic/negative people do to make an identity out of it and feel superior to all the normies who don’t know how bleak and shitty the world really is…yup, that was me lol)).

There’s really no benefit to being in a negative state…it’s something you want to focus on cutting out of your life in general. That’s why I have retarded good reframing skills. ’cause when bad shit happens I find ways to reframe it positively. Like this girl bailing on you has taught you some stuff about how to handle these situations, and it didn’t go as bad as it could have so you’ll probably bang her again down the road, and now you can go meet new more awesome girls, it’s all win/win/win in my reframe.

“I haven’t been overly nice to this girl (I do some nice things and add a lot of value but mostly I’m just a cocky prick to her lol) and then when she TELLS ME SHE WANTS TO BANG ANOTHER GUY INSTEAD I’m suddenly sending her sweet affirming texts.

Shit runs deep. Again this is WAY better than I once would have done but a lot of the same pattern is still there – withered but visible.”

We had this shit DRILLED INTO OUR CORES from day one. The fact that you’re even on a site like this or in a position where you HAVE to deal with losing a hot girl who viewed you as Alpha Fucks, is massively breaking out of this shitty conditioning compared to what 99% of guys will do with their lives as they embrace or are never aware of their conditioning.

on July 7th, 2016 at 8:20 pm
Original Link

@Forge the Sky @SJF
No offense SJF, I heart you and all, but Forge: don’t shit where you eat. This isn’t the 50s where it was acceptable to fuck your secretary as you poured a glass of scotch and lol’ed with your Mad Men co-workers. This is Sexual Harrassment Lawsuit No Consequences For Women Anonymous Blogging Post Screencaps Of Your Txts 2016. You fuck your co-worker and that’s great, you’ll have a blast…until the day she demands commitment and you won’t give it or you say something she takes offense to or she finds another girl’s blonde hairs on your bathroom floor and loses her shit with jealousy etc etc and then you are basically juggling a hot potato at work until one of you no longer works there.

You are learning the skills to go out and just MEET women. Anywhere. Anytime. Do that instead. Let the guys who don’t have access to pickup resources risk their entire career for some office 7 who’s value is only inflated because of the lack of scenery there and who would be invisible in a decent nightclub.

“Super sheepish, like she was wondering if I was gonna be dramatic, but I just acted normal”

Perfect. Keep doing that. What you feel, she feels. Change her mood, not her mind. Don’t even engage a “discussion” about it just tease her if she seems like she wants a discussion and make her laugh and say you gotta run don’t worry about it and give her a wink etc All part of showing non-judgement and abundance mentality and making her link good feels to you. Again most normal guys would go make it dramatic and have this big falling out scene or fights or dramatic trying to convince her awkward drunken love confession shit as they lower their value (ON TOP OF lowering their value when they handled the breakup news badly like I described before).

“and then she made innuendo about sex positions when my original audience wasn’t listening.”

Just stick to what I’m telling you and you’ll be back to fucking her again in like, 2-8 months. And you’ll have other girls by then to keep you from falling back into scarcity.

“My subcomms are much better than you think. Not great for advanced PUA, but definitely good for a beginner.”

I can tell your subcomms aren’t horrible because you’re able to sit down with random strangers and they’ll pour you wine and yap your ear off and shit, so you clearly have some kind of social skills. You’re not a complete martian lol You’re just not showing the right type of subcomms/value to girls yet (sexworthy guy stuff). But like, you get generally fine reactions that you can work with.

“The “ooooh fate magic DESTINY.” BS is what girls are really drawn to”

I don’t use ANY of that stuff lol I haven’t since my early PUA days. I’ll flat out make fun of them for believing in astrology and stuff. But doing that is self-amusing to me and *I* think it’s fun to do that, which is why it works for me. If the magic fate destiny soul palm reading is fun for you, cool, throw it in, but it’s about what’s fun to you, not “girls like that magic destiny stuff”. They DO love it, but if it’s retarded to you don’t do it just because they like it…the interaction should be fun for BOTH of you, not just HER.

““You two look like super heroes. Yeah. You’re the smart one. Like batman. You use all your intuition and detective knowho to track the baddies down. And you. You don’t really do anything. You just sit around and look sexy. Your superhero suit is like a thong and bra, that’s pretty much it. So smartgirl over here is like “Okay. I found Dr. Evil dude. Lets go get him.” and your’e like (mime filing nails) “Ugggghh. Do we have to? (sigh).”

This is all solid stuff that I would use. You have fine “riffing” skills in keeping a joke going etc if you want to when you aren’t worried about what to say or if it’s good enough etc (like when you’re just brain-dumping on the net here). If you can do that while looking her in the eyes etc, you’ll do fine.

The keys for this kind of thing working are that 1) it makes you lol (what you feel, she feels) and 2) it’s sexual. Without the sexual aspect of it, you become the friend-zone dancing monkey clown. And if you don’t transition into A3 when you have her laughing and giving you iois and A2 etc, then you’ll be the friend-zone dancing monkey clown.

But as long as you make it sexual to show you can cross that boundary (not EVERYTHING you say has to be sexual, but you need to show you’re comfortable with sex) and lead it into A3 when you get her laughing and receptive, you’ll be fine.

And as you’re realizing, iois can be a lot more subtle than you’ve been looking for. But don’t worry that’s a standard part of the process…guys who’ve never really gotten iois or viewed themselves as deserving of them need neon green flashing lights to believe it and even THEN they’ll second-guess if the ioi’s are real or her “just being nice” etc. But down the road when you get more experience you’ll be like “oh god, she lined up RIGHT BEHIND ME in the grocery store…OBVIOUSLY she wants to fuck me.” And a lot of the time you won’t be wrong lol

This is why I want you to get those big huge spikes right now, because you can’t even SEE the little tiny subtle iois that a Scray or me will pounce on and switch to A3 from or don’t believe them when they’re there. You need some good reference of “girls LIKE me, and ask me what my name is and ask me where I came from and took a blatant interest in interacting with me that I can’t convince myself was my imagination!!” THEN you can pull back and “do less and less” until you find the baseline minimum you can do and still see the iois and still transition to A3.

I don’t know what anyone has against this process lol It’s not as fast a learning process as telling you to just assume everything is an ioi and shoot for deep comfort/rapport talk as fast as possible, but it’s going to involve a lot more mini-victories along the way to keep you excited about your progress. As a newbie it feels fucking GOOD to have a girl double-over and not be able to speak and know that YOU did that by consciously pushing specific buttons when you’ve never had that in your life before.

@scray @hank
“lol if they were generally good you’d be going on hella Day 2’s and getting way more investment from the women.”

They’re not sexual but they’re just not socially awkward. And he’s had opportunities to get Day2s but he’s run bad game on getting from A2 to the Day2. But like, he’s not a martian lol The dude has people buying him drinks and talking to him for half an hour and shit. And with those people he goes INTO deep rapport/comfort with them and they enjoy it from what I’ve read in the FRs.

“dude, you’re here saying that we shouldn’t even be critiquing you because you come from this terrible, terrible, horrible social place”

He’s not saying that man. He’s just saying like, you don’t go from “never fucked a girl” to “stare her down and pin her against the wall and fuck her in the mall bathroom” in a month lol Dude needs mass reference experience right now and is in a location where he can’t really get it. He’s not hitting up nightclubs and house parties full of girls where he could rack up dozens of interactions a night like we were able to. It’s not about not critiquing him, it’s about just like, give him a chance to go out and small-chunk this shit, it’s a lot to take in all at once on top of getting past the fears of even showing any kind of intent with women.

“Being able to admit (to the people who want to help you) these things will just make your growth faster.”

You’re putting up this binary thing like “you’re either a PUA master banging girls left and right with amazing subcomms or a complete social retarded martian”. There’s a middle ground where you can be a generally social guy with normal/decent subcomms but still not be giving off sexual subcomms. I mean, that’s like 90% of guys out there at the bars.

I don’t think he’s in denial at all, I’m not sure where you even get that from lol He’s just saying he’s not Steve Urkel.

“for ex, you thinking the long paragraph in response to her calling you an asshole = you trying way too hard to make her laugh and to give her positive emotions by ENTERTAINING her.”

Man it’s just a routine written out to cover theoretical bases. In real life he would just spit out bits of it. Am I the only one who wrote out long-ass routines and shaved them down infield? Was everyone else just writing pure aloof two-word alpha badass gold from day one?? lol

“that natural impulse springs from an avoidance of more sincere, earnest talk.”

Again like, it’s the difference between “open joke tease sincere talk” and “open joke tease joke tease sincere talk”. What’s the big deal lol No one is saying DON’T do any comfort/rapport deep stuff but like, there’s no reason he can’t throw in a couple more spikes especially if they’re on sexual topics, and THEN do the sincere talk stuff.

Legitimately I gotta ask why that sounds crazy to you so we can stop talking past eachother ’cause I seriously don’t understand lol Is it just a speed thing like you want him to pull as fast as possible? Like what’s your issue with: “spike her temp a couple times with sexual humor and then go into deeper comfort/rapport”? Not an attack, just legitimately curious what the downside to that that you see is so I can figure out where you’re coming from.


Skip to 0:47:

@hank @scray
“I ALWAYS said I was a beginner. I am only pointing out that I am not a completely social akward noob like a lot of hardcase are.”

This is true lol Dude has said this from the start, that’s why I’m defending him on it and I don’t think “I’m not a complete social retard” is saying “NO ONE CRITICIZE ME I’M PERFECT!!!!” Like I would give different advice to a hardcase stone-cold socially awkward weirdo fuckup than I would to a guy who like, goes out and has a social life but just doesn’t get girls. If I remember right Scray, you were already going out with a group of friends to nightclubs with girls…so you back then would have been in this exact category of like “not a complete social martian weirdo” but also “not sexual subcomms”.

“BUT I AM STILL NOT GETTING PAST A. BECAUSE I AM A BEGINNER. I have never NOT claimed that. I am just in a different postion than most newbs.”

This. He’s basically got solid enough social skills to go interact with strangers and have them LIKE him, he’s just asexual as fuck and doesn’t know how to lead the convo anywhere or have an overall framework/strategy. I would put him in the same category as a lot of my normal Blue Pill buddies where they go out and can socialize but just have no sexuality or idea what to do with girls. But they’re a far cry from like, where I was when I started out (total social retard) or where a hardcase newbie who can’t even hold a normal conversation with someone is. And he knows it, he’s not under any delusion that he’s walking around like some super-pimp lol

There’s a difference between having decent enough subcomms for socializing and having “sexworthy” subcomms to girls where they see his value instantly.

“Now, l am not getting makeouts and day 2s becuase I am not pushing to A3. Which is PRECISELY what I am working on now”

This lol Like, the dude didn’t even know TO push things to A3, let alone HOW to, until last week or whenever when we started telling him to. Now he’s better prepared so give him a few sarge sessions to try some of this shit out.

I mean the guy just finished writing up a bunch of stories and DHVs and cold reads and shit…the dude is doing his proper homework. I WISH more newbies would write shit down when they’re told to write shit down instead of going out “winging it” and crying for months that they aren’t getting results when they refuse to sit down and do the homework.

But give him a week or two to get out there and TRY some of it and see what feedback he gets from the field and see if he can push it to A3…who knows maybe he goes out tomorrow with his new shit he’s written down doing his homework and pulls a girl from the mall to fuck, give him a chance lol

“Its because I am letting the A2 I get (and yes I know I don’t always get it) but when I DO get it I just let it die out. I wouldn’t get A2 AT ALL if my subcomms were complete shit.”

This lol

“Now for the whole funny thing, here is the rub. Yareally gets this because our game style is similar.”

Ya, most of your humor is stuff I would say/do and think is funny so I can visualize how you would say it infield and what kind of reactions you would probably get. That’s just a fluke that we have similar styles. I do a lot of deadpan Ryan Reynolds, Hank Moody, etc humor…sarcastic/sexual “not sure if he’s kidding or not” etc and I very rarely get serious. I’ll keep a joke going to spike their BT and make sure A2 is rock solid and qualify her HARD before I go into any kind of rapport/comfort stuff (and BECAUSE I spike her into solid A2 she WANTS to qualify herself to me).

That’s why I’m like “I don’t get it, why is what he’s trying to do sounding so insane to everyone but me” lol

“But it is NOT about being “funny”. It is about self-amusing and spiking BT — becuase that is also self amusing to me.”

Right, there’s a difference. And like I say, as long as it’s sexual and pushes forward into A3 when you get that A2 response, it should be fine. You can use ANY style of interaction as long as 1) it’s fun for you too, ’cause she’ll pick up on that, 2) it involves some sexuality at points, even just ONE point where you demonstrate you’re comfortable with sexuality in general, and 3) you’re pushing it forward when you get those iois into qualifying her and A3 rewarding her with comfort/rapport.

You could just walk up to her completely silent and make eye-contact, slowly check her down down and up sizing her up like a sexual piece of meat with a cocky grin (self-amusing and showing sexuality) until she giggles and blushes (ioi), and then just go right into qualifying her for comfort/rapport because that fits 1 2 and 3 up above.

You could walk up to her deadpan and tell her you just took a palm reading course and read her future (self-amusing) with some innuendo in it (showing sexuality) and when she goes “omg that’s amazing” (ioi) you can just qualify her and go into comfort/rapport because that fits 1 2 and 3 above too.

It’s all the same shit as long as you hit those checkpoints lol

@The Man
Do you even understand that you’re talking to a community of men who basically DID follow the Golden Rule their whole lives and ATE SHIT because of it and were fucked over and cheated on and denied everything they were ever promised for being a good little self-sacrificing Nice Guy chode breaking their backs to please other people only to get used and chewed up and spit out by a society that gave NO FUCKS how well they tried to treat everyone around them?

And you’re coming here saying “guys, guys, just do that stuff that fucked you over for most of your early adulthood!! Why? BECAUSE!!! Because I SAID SO!!!” And you can’t relate to our way of giving value/respect to others because it doesn’t make sense to you because you have a Blue Pill mindset.

lol know your audience dude. You’ll have a lot better luck with this in a Blue Pill forum.

@scray @hank
“I have never had a gf. Never kissed a girl. Never touched a girl. Basically all this stuff it new to me. So i am doing these things for the first time, and its usually in an open venue, in front of lots people.

but also

I am only pointing out that I am not a completely social akward noob like a lot of hardcase are.

okay…well…which is it? like, if you’ve never touched a girl then ya that is ‘completely social awkward noob hardcase’ territory.”

I disagree COMPLETELY. Until he sticks his dick in something he’s a “completely social awkward noob hardcase”? Come on man. That’s silly. I know guys with MASSIVE social circles full of cool guys who like them and come to their parties etc and hot girls who want to fuck them, who STILL almost never touch a girl or get laid (maybe once every couple years).

THIS is a completely social awkward noob hardcase:

Hank is just like, Jim from American Pie. Just a normal dude who’s not sexual and doesn’t have a plan with women yet.

“lol at how you view the exchanges.”

That’s how I view them too man lol I legitimately don’t know what you’re seeing in these exchanges with hank that neither him or I are seeing.

“okay well why aren’t you spiking BT that much?”

Because you’re telling him NOT to!! lol wtf??

“being self-amusing requires the courage to just be yourself without her liking it and who gives a shit”

Man, you are speaking from a place WAY beyond where he’s at. It’s like you’ve forgotten what being a kissless virgin was like lol

“and a lot of your stuff doesn’t give off that vibe. it gives off a ‘like me please laugh’ vibe.”

Dude, he might BE try-hard for bit. THAT’S OKAY lol It’s okay to BE a little “like me please!!” at first, the guy has never kissed or touched a girl. He doesn’t have to go right to super alpha non-needy badass. Let him get some experience chasing a little validation so he knows he’s even CAPABLE of getting a girl’s interest and THEN we can pull him back out of it.

It’s like the guy has never touched a gun before and you tell him “don’t practice, just shoot a bullseye, just don’t think about it you’re naturally going to shoot a bullseye just do it” Let him play on the shooting range so he gets a handle on what shooting a gun feels like and then we’ll help him focus on the bullseye and minimize how much he’s doing to get there etc


Honestly man, I get the impression that you’re sort of projecting on him. Like “I think this being serious thing is self-amusing, so other guys must think so too” lol Everyone is wired different for what they find funny, ya know? Every routine/conversation he thinks up and writes out has a very specific type of humor in it…his default go-tos aren’t “I could ask her about her astrological sign” they’re “I should say this old guy tried to fuck me in the bathroom” That’s the stuff that’s self-amusing to him so I say just roll with that and fit it into the structure (sexual and moving into A3 when he gets iois).

“Looking back, I stand on the shoulders of a whole bunch of great men that shared things with me.”


…lol. jk. ❀ But ya, you get it now lol You were VERY lucky to have the upbringing and male influences you had that most other men didn't have and boys growing up now don't even have the opportunity TO have (single mom household, no male teachers, etc).

@SJF @scray @hank
"He has (his own) style which he is too, too comfortable with….And he needs method which you and YaReally are teaching him. But he is slightly resistant to follow method PUA."

He really ISN'T resistant. Did you guys SEE the huge fucking list of stories and routines and shit he wrote down?? That's AMAZING. Do you guys have any IDEA how hard it is to get guys to DO that shit these days???? I know guys who've done PUA for years who hit sticking points or plateaus and STILL won't sit down and go "okay I have to rationally think about this and then go out and consciously apply it because I'm not making progress".

Just give him a couple weeks to get out there and try applying this stuff lol He's 100% willing to do it. And YES he might even get out there and just be in a bad headspace and NOT end up opening a couple times, or he might open and be doing it and then FORGET to move things forward. HOLY SHIT THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!! lol it's fine, he'll just try to remember the next time. That's how progress is made. It's okay to fuck it up and forget shit and try again the next time, this is a lot of new stuff to take in and keep in his brain when he's staring down some girl waiting for him to say something.

Like he's starting to spot iois better now, which is going to help make him go "hey these are those ioi things…maybe I should try this A3 qualifier routine I wrote down when those guys told me to write down an A3 qualifier routine" lol

"But he is slightly resistant to follow method PUA.

I constantly talk about A2 and A3 lol. I am constantly talking about my sticking point there. I am CONSTANTLY talking about MM. I am following MM very much. I just have to work to jump to the next level. Which is why I am working on a stack now.

So much “Do x” “okay, I am working on getting better at x” “WHY AREN’T YOU DOING X?” here today lol"

lol THIS. I legitimately don't understand how this is blatantly obvious to hank and I but no one else. That's not hating or anything it's just an actual legitimate curiousity on my part like wtf am I missing here lol

on July 8th, 2016 at 12:34 pm
Original Link

“She is shitting where she works. And rubbing it in his face. He should be stoic about that. And is should not be a motivating factor negative (which he admits to getting him down) or positive (picking up a new plate in a client–which I’m claiming is not unethical, nor illegal–there is no such ethics invovlved. What is the case here?–name the risk and the harm to the client, please) ”

I don’t care what the fuck his job is or what his family was like or whether he wants monogamy or not. If you haven’t seen the fucking unreal amounts of women claiming sexual harassment over butthurt feelings and guys having their careers tanked then you need to pay more attention. There’s no reason for any guy learning pickup to be risking having his name, career, reputation, etc dragged through the mud banging clients/co-workers out of scarcity instead of going out and approaching non-work-related girls.

I mean shit, Hugo Schwyzer, Jian Ghomeshi, Mattress Girl’s victim I could name guys who’s names and careers are tanked forever all fucking day.

You’re spouting fantasy land bullshit on this. If there wasn’t a 3 link limit to keep a post from going to mod here I would post a couple dozen stories of guys having their careers/reputations tanked by butthurt girls who just make shit up for attention or to appease their butthurt.

“My whole thing is that hank focusing on gaining reference experiences being serious with girls will make the humor much better.”

Not sure what makes you think it would in any way relate to the humor. It still comes off like you’re saying “it’s REALLY hilarious when you pretend to be serious and then go “zing, gotcha I was just making shit up!!”, so you should do exactly that!” Like, I get that YOU find that funny or it makes YOUR humor better but I don’t see how you can apply it to hank or as a universal.

“Some people hide behind humor. Those people are not self amusing. Those people should spend time not hiding behind humor and being earnest. That will help them use humor to truly express, rather than hide themselves.”

Again it feels like you’re projecting or something. The stuff the guy writes about what he wants to say seems legitimately self-amusing to him. He’s not saying “I should joke about old men wanting to fuck me because she’ll like that and really I’d rather be serious but I think I have to make her laugh so I’ll focus on that”…he’s saying “lolol this makes me laugh I should try saying it and then do that move to A3 thing you guys are talking about”

Like I get the impression that if you heard what I say in set you’d be like “oh man that YaReally guy is hiding behind humor” when it’s like no, I’m just having fun lol

“Question is whether hank is one of those people right now. I think so.”

Based on what? I mean, I got the complete opposite vibe from him. That he’s toning it down in set because he isn’t sure what all he can get away with yet, but outside of the set he thinks of all this hilarious shit he wants to say that has a sexual edge and, now that we’ve explained A3, he can use to qualify and move things forward.

I’m not saying there aren’t guys that hide behind humor, but I don’t get the impression hank is that at all. It seems like he (and I) might just have a sense of humor you can’t relate to…?

“Ok well in field we have a lot of very long-winded stuff that comes off as tryhard based on how the interactions go which indicates a subcomm issue.”

I mean, man, the guy is gonna come off try-hard for a bit, he’s a newbie. Even his “know her soul” stuff is going to come off try-hard. It’s like you’re trying to avoid him making ANY mistakes infield at all like they’re going to scar him for life instead of just teach him “it’s okay to fuck up a bit, see how that story came off long-winded? Tone it down a bit next time and try again” and learning to calibrate etc.

“I’d really like it if hank did 80% serious stuff 20% funny for a week and then see what happens when he rolls back to his usual routines.”

I just don’t get it. If I’m out there doing 80% funny 20% serious, and hank has a similar sense of humor/style to me, why does he have to force himself into 80% serious 20% funny just ’cause that’s what’s congruent to your personality? I mean, maybe down the road if he gets bored and wants to mix things up, like I’ll sometimes do a totally deadpan serious set for the lolz but being congruent to his actual personality and what kind of interactions feel fun to him is more important than the ratio of serious to funny from A1 – A3. Julien does nothing but completely fuck around until isolation pretty much.

“I’m not trying to come off as a dick or rude to hank.”

lol and I’m not trying to come off as a dick or rude to you. I’m legitimately confused at your view of the situation lol

Harrison Bergeron
“Why is it okay to call a girl sexy or hot during roleplay or rapport like the below examples?”

The key is really in not dwelling. Most guys will do it like “You’re hot.” or “Wow you’re sexy.” and then wait for a reaction (because they’re seeking a good reaction/outcome). But what’s she supposed to say to that? “You’re beautiful.” “…..thankyou!πŸ™‚πŸ™‚ …?? Thanks! ummm….??” Whereas when you just toss it in as no big deal like “I know know you think “but I’m so hot, all the boys want to fuck me” and then before you know it–” it comes off as just a casual observation that isn’t even exciting to ME and I don’t care HOW she takes it or responds to it because I’m already moving onto the next thing for her to actually respond to.

It’s okay to compliment her, it’s when you compliment her seeking a reaction/validation for it that it falls apart. Like two hot people can acknowledge they’re hot, they’re not blind/retarded. You just devalue how much value that hotness HAS.

Like Mystery’s CLASSIC (I’m sure I’m butchering it writing it from memory lol): “Sure, you’re beautiful…but I live in Hollywood, I’ve dated models, girls you’ve probably heard of. But I’ve found that beauty is common…what’s rare is 1) a good personality, 2) intelligence, and 3) a good sense of humor. …you have 2 out of 3, so that’s not bad.”

Take that apart and YES he’s complimenting her, but then he’s DEVALUING beauty and qualifying her on OTHER things. And then he throws in a push/pull neg with the “2 out of 3” thing.

oh lol you wrote that exact line next lol But ya, look at the difference between that and “You’re gorgeous, can I buy you a drink?” or “Wow no, it’s just you’re so beautiful. (pause waiting for response)”

“But, why mention her looks at all, even in passing, isn’t it giving her higher value?”

Beautiful people with high self-esteem don’t really value beauty. To an AFC it’s TERRIFYING to call her “sexy”, that’s giving her SO MUCH VALUE in his mind. To Hugh Hefner calling a girl sexy is like calling a hamburger “tasty” lol It doesn’t carry the same massive value dump. Girls call eachother sexy all the time because they don’t have all this emotional baggage attached to it the way an AFC putting his heart and soul on the line does. They’ll call eachother sexy one second and then call eachother bitches the next, there’s no real value attached to it.

“yeah but zero sexual anything with girls over a 5.”

Beacuse he didn’t really even know TO make his humor sexual. Now he’s written down a bunch of sexual humor to try applying. He’s not gonna get it right on his first try.

“since i made it my personal mission to pretty much punch above my weight at the time, i may as well have been a martian”

That’s awesome, but you had girls TO punch above your weight to. You were hitting up nightclubs and house parties full of girls and good state boosts, you weren’t wandering for 2 hours between HB4s until you happen to stumble across a decent 7 after having not spoken a word in 2 hours.

“i’ve said it several times that FIRST i had to go back and just learn how to be a COOL, WELL-LIKED GUY before really being able to deploy MM.”

And like I said, if I had just told you “dude just be COOL man, just be a WELL-LIKED GUY” you wouldn’t have gotten anywhere. The only reason you figured out that you needed to be cool and HOW to be cool, was because the field told you “dude you’re not coming off right, work on some shit” You NEEDED to feel incongruent and fuck up first. I mean why even teach guys a process why not just say: “Here’s PUA: Just be cool bro” and throw them into the field to bang their head against the wall lol

“who hang out with hotties who WOULD sleep with them if they just manned up a little still are seen as not cool well-liked guys”

Man, I hate calling you out on this but you’re making shit up dude. I’ve rolled with a bunch of these guys. You’re now telling me that guys who have dozens of guys and girls txting them wanting to party and giving them free access to clubs and hanging out with them at BBQs and events and inviting them to house parties and seeking them out coming to venues just to hang with them inviting them to afterparties and coming to theirs etc etc are “not cool well-liked guys” because of some weird bias you have lol

Sorry man, you’re just wrong on this one. I don’t know a way to say it that doesn’t sound dickish lol It’s like you’ve only hung out with guys who get laid or something.

“I AGREE that yeah that shit is funny, and yet, when i read it in the context of the interaction”

Because he’s a NEWBIE dude. Of COURSE his interactions are going to be off lol Even trying serious stuff he’s going to fuck THAT up too. A bunch lol

“but for a guy like me, i had to really figure out how to avoid using humor as a crutch and hiding behind it.”

You gotta consider that hank might not BE “a guy like you”. Like I get it that this helped YOU a ton. That’s great. But every dude has a slightly different personality and needs their learning process tweaked to it. Maybe YOU were hiding behind your humor, and that’s great that you busted out of that, but nothing he’s saying really seems like he’s hiding at all. He didn’t KNOW to push to A3 or HOW to, so he wasn’t DOING it. No biggie. He just goes out now and tries pushing it.

It’s like you’re trying to coach yourself from back in the day but he’s got a different personality than you did.

“and since the PUA-graveyard (sluthate) is filled with dudes who just became dancing monkeys and never got any further, I’m wagering it’s a pretty common problem”

This is a silly point. Those guys aren’t following the model like they’re supposed to. They go freestyle it and get stuck in validation land instead of making things sexual and taking things to A3.

We’re not saying “hey just sing and dance in front of her until she touches your dick”, we’re saying “make her laugh a couple of times and then qualify her and give her A3 and then go into the deep rapport/comfort stuff”.

“they have a natural edge that just makes everything bite a little”

You know how he got that edge? He learned to spike the fuck out of girl’s temperatures and then added sexuality etc to it lol Tyler didn’t start out with that edge at ALL.

“not like you…(lean forward while having a light jokey tone, slide my hand up her leg, beneath her dress)…you’re just here to use me for sex like a normal person.”

Sooooo you’re making your humor 1) self-amusing, 2) sexual, and 3) pushing the interaction forwards. Versus:

“Worse still he looked like Donald trump with even less hair and — admittedly, an even better? combover?”

1) self-amusing, 2) barely sexual, and 3) not pushing anything forwards.

It’s not the HUMOR that makes your second example shit, it’s the lack of forward intent lol

“it sounds like you had a straight ship of ‘yeah i like that RDJ style’ and your first guess at yourself was the right one. which is awesome.”

Fuuuuuuck no dude. I experiemented with EVERYTHING. I resisted going full RDJ style for years even till I finally accepted “this is how I have fun, this is what makes me laugh and be engaged, and I get faster/better reception when I’M having a good time in the interaction” and just rolled with it. That’s why I recognize his sense of humor and don’t see a reason to send him down a different path doing deeper stuff when it’s not really his natural urge. I would have progressed a lot faster if I had just accepted that doing palm reading and talking about astrology and shit wasn’t fun to me and joking about roofying her drink WAS fun lol

“we have to remember that Hank is new to the game and yeah, RIGHT NOW he may THINK he likes x y or z, and maybe that will turn out to be true years from now.”

That’s why I go by what he defaults to when he’s brainstorming. Like, the way to figure out what’s self-amusing to you is to figure out what, when you even THINK about saying/doing it, it cracks a smile on your face. Like his little music rant making fun of SJF you can tell from his writing that he was cackling away as he was typing SJF’s old man voice down, and I bet as he’s reading this right now he’s probably cracking a smile just thinking about it. That stuff is his natural sense of humor and he should be working WITH that instead of against it. Whereas you seem to be self-amused more by the “I’m pretending to be deep and serious with them and they fall for it lol” stuff where that legitimately makes you crack a grin to picture/do.

“but lol there’s a lot of, as BD says ‘AM 1.0’ edge to it…”

Ya man, and that’s awesome. But that works for you beacuse it’s self-amusing to you and fits your personality style. That’s not “the way” to interact with girls, it’s just “the way that’s congruent to scray” lol I handle that kind of situation very different, but congruent to ME. Hanks gotta do what’s congruent to him.

“my point being that I never would have guessed that these archetypes would have somewhat resembled me 4 years ago.”

Right, but the guy is giving very clear signs of what he finds self-amusing even if he doesn’t realize it. Whenever he says “what I WANT to say is…” and goes into some riff about his ass and old men wanting to fuck him etc it’s like, that’s his brain spewing stuff that it thinks is funny. VS when he tries to come up with deeper stuff and it goes all logical and shitty because he’s forcing it.

“so i’m just trying to keep variety in there and have him try more stuff too.”

I’m cool with that, but like, let’s give him a chance to try getting to C1 properly (sexualizing his humor and spotting ioi’s and qualifying then rewarding her with C1 if she’s playing along otherwise back to A1 to make her laugh again) and if he tries it for a few weeks can’t make that work, then cool, go full palm-reading mode. Let’s give him a chance to try it first for a few weeks lol The guy hasn’t known to, or how to, go to A3 until now.

’cause if he can learn to get to A3 with his sense of humor/personality, he’s going to shave off a TON of learning time because he’ll be working congruently from the start.

But if in a few weeks he’s still posting FRs where he’s not qualifying off girls’ iois and getting to A3, then ya, I’ll be right alongside you telling him to try something else lol

But personally I think as soon as he tries out that “DHV until I get iois, try to qualify her, if she doesn’t play along disqualify her and DHV for more iois and try to qualify her again until she DOES play along qualifying herself, then reward her with a sincere male to female compliment/interest and go into deeper comfort/rapport talk because she’s earned it” method, he’s going to find it works just fine lol

“I asked why he was playing Pokémon on his cell at a board game meetup–in front of others”

Speaking of…BEHOLD, the magnificent masculine alpha male badassery of Neomasculinty (“we reject technology and mindless videogames and shit!” was one of their tennants I believe) in all its glory:

Fucking hilarious. Don Draper sitting in a leather chair in a custom fitted suit with matching pocket square, scotch glass in one hand, swiping pokeballs at Pikachu in the other hand. Never stop being a lolcow RVF.

on July 8th, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Original Link

“to hide and conceal or to express”

You still haven’t said what makes you think he’s doing that other than “I did it when I started and some guys do it”. I don’t see anything he’s doing that isn’t just standard newbie learning-to-calibrate. If he was like 5 years in and spitting these Field Reports, cool, but he’s a newbie.

“you’re literally assuming that its all self-amusing and that this is Hank’s natural everything based on very little.”

It’s based on more than you’ve provided in the opposte direction is my point lol Like you haven’t provided ANYTHING except “this is a thing that some guys do”, but nothing specific to hank from his FRs that can’t be chalked up to just “not knowing how to spot iois and go to A3 or how to go to A3 yet”.

“and here’s why. when you KNOW them, you HEAR about what they do — fail to pull the trigger. that shit spreads around to the people who KNOW them (including the hot girls who get annoyed that he won’t do anything to fuck them).”

You’re just wrong man. Sorry, don’t know what to tell ya lol You’re telling me that the guys I’ve been friends with for years and gone out multiple nights a week with regularly for YEARS are being treated like cool social guys by everyone around them but are somehow not viewed as cool social guys.

None of that shit even spreads around unless you hang out with like a tiny little super close-knit social circle. The chick who comes to his parties twice a month and tries to fuck him isn’t hearing “he never pulls the trigger” and getting turned off lol I’ve spent YEARS with these guys in some cases lol Ya his super close buddies who get laid a bunch go “ah, ya, these girls wanna fuck him but he doesn’t know what to do”, but other Blue Pill normal guys and most girls don’t notice at all. They just ASSUME that guy gets laid when they’re not around because it’s inconceivable to them that a guy can be cool and social and NOT be getting laid.

“you can say it however you want, can’t really change what i’ve seen ….so…maybe we’ve had two different experiences,”

I think we’ve hung out with two different types of groups or something lol Like I’ve hung with a lot of cool social Blue Pill guys over the years, this is a really common thing, that a guy is cool enough to be well-liked and viewed as cool and viewed as “must be getting laid” and liked by girls and girls wanting to fuck him, and him BEING cool, but just not knowing how to be sexual and pull the trigger.

“or you’re just thinking of how people who don’t know those guys that well view them”

Maybe that’s the disconnect, you’re thinking of a small super close-knit social circle that’s known eachother for years or something maybe? Hank is approaching strangers.

“they’re so rare anyway that it’s like a whatever marginal situation to begin with…”

No idea how you could have been doing this stuff for this long and not run into these guys lol They’re EVERYWHERE. They’re like half the groups of guys in a club on any given night. They’re not some 0.0001% anomally fluke. Can you seriously not picture the gap between “totally stunted Steve Urkel” and “pussy slaying alpha male”?? That’s like the vast majority of dudes in GENERAL.

“And he may not be like you, too. Not sure why you think we can really know FOR SURE…”

Because I’ve provided mutliple reasons that hank is showing signs of having similar humor to me, from how he defaults in his brainstorming to hank himself SAYING it and relating to what I’m saying…and you haven’t provided anything hank-specific that shows he’s hiding behind humor that can’t be attributed to just “not knowing what iois look like or how to take it to A3”. You’re trying to fix something that there’s no real sign is broken.

I’m open to HEARING what makes you think this, and maybe you THINK you’ve provided evidence or blatant signs or it’s so obvious to you that you don’t have to, but up to this point you’ve provided nothing except “some guys do it and I did it” which isn’t related to hank at all lol

“And when he started opening up, that inner darkness came out more — regardless of what routine he was doing…my guess.”

Tyler was the danciest dancing monkey to ever dance at the start man lol He had ZERO edge. Girls thought he was FLAMINGLY GAY and he played that up on PURPOSE at points lol He wasn’t radiating this inner darkness edgelord vibe when he was going “like omg you guys are TOTALLY best friends!! I bet you use the same shampoo!!”

“I specifically said several times being FUNNY itself isn’t what the problem is.”

And I’m not trying to tell him to be funnier. I’m trying to tell him to roll with his natural funny urges, but give them a sexual edge and watch for iois and then try to move into A3 and if he can’t, throw in a little more natural funny urge with a sexual edge so he can see how “let’s go” “I can’t” “joke joke tease tease” “lolol” “let’s go” “Okay!!!πŸ™‚ :)” works.

“people who hide behind humor do this to themselves”

That is a true statement. But you’ve provided zero evidence that hank is one of those people. He just hasn’t known what iois look like or how to take it to A3 from them.

“They’re afraid of taking things to that level with a girl and so when they pour on the humor, they naturally are pressing the brakes (even tho they may want to be pushing forward logically).”

Again, you gotta provide some kind of evidence beyond “some guys do this” that hank, specifically hank, in multiple field reports, is doing this, that can’t just be attributed to “not recognizing iois and not knowing how to get to A3”.

“Not sure why there’s all this hostility toward it but it’s not important.”

’cause you’re telling him “that’s a nice car you’re sitting in, but I see you haven’t crossed the finish line yet, you need this other car that I like to drive.” “But I haven’t pressed the gas pedal yet, that’s why I haven’t crossed the finish line.” “BRO it’s because you’re in the wrong car man, I drive this one across the finish line all the time, get in this car!” “But–what if I just press the gas pedal in this car?” “Trust me man, some guys don’t press the gas pedal because they’re scared to” “I know, but I didn’t know TO press the gas pedal” “Trust me man, you need to be in this car, you’re in the wrong car just trust me.”

It doesn’t make any sense lol

“Tastes in humor and what’s cool change the more experience you get so what he thinks is funny now could well change in a few years when he’s hank the hunk.”

Yes, then you probably agree that it would be useful for him to have a skillset where he goes “what do I think is funny? These things make me laugh, and I can apply them to my sets” instead of “well who cares what I think is funny, girls like when a guy is serious so I’d better do that”. Lol This is giving him the ability to evolve his game when his humor/tastes change.

“Yup. And the whole point is that it TOOK ME A LONG TIME to find that. AND what I found was WAY DIFFERENT than what I originally a) started as and b) what I originally THOUGHT of.”

And that’s awesome. But again, you’re giving no evidence that hank is like you.

“a black box right now of what game will work best for him, so to just be like ‘oh yeah this is his style and that’s just what he REALLY thinks is this or that’ is like ‘uhhh… how exactly do we know? we have no clue…’”

He’s NOT though, he’s SHOWING YOU what he’s like. Have you read all his Field Reports like from months back? There’s a very clear pattern in them of what type of interaction style and humor he defaults to. It’s not this unknowable thing lol

“he should try what i said first since you both are giving it such a hard time lol.”

You haven’t provided any evidence that he should switch cars VS flooring the gas pedal in his current car. If you would provide some evidence there might be a case for it, but all you’re doing is saying “some guys are like this and I was like this and he’s an unknown black box” which ignores the clear patterns of humor he’s had in his FRs since day one.

“both approaches are valid, it’s really just about which one benefits hank more or if both benefit him equally.”

Then how about let him try driving the car he’s in first instead of trying to force him into another car before he even really tries driving the one he’s in? And if he can’t make his own car go, then cool, bring in alternatives. Why try Plan B without actually trying Plan A first? Doesn’t make sense.

“humor is listed as one of the most common DEFENSE mechanisms for a reason, man….”

You have to show evidence that hank is using it as a defense mechanism. Any overgaming hank has done so far has been because he’s been too newbie to recognize (or believe he’s getting) iois and hasn’t known he’s supposed to push forward off those into A3. He’s been getting A2 just FINE, he doesn’t need to change how he’s DHV’ing because he’s getting A2, he just doesn’t know how to take it anywhere.

“i don’t know why it’s this FAR OUT concept that people, ESPECIALLY socially stunted people would use humor as a defense mechanism.”

It’s not. It’s that hank, specifically the guy who’s Field Reports we’re all reading and have been reading for months, has given no real indication that he’s one of these guys and you haven’t provided anything to back it up except your own baggage lol Like, that’s not trying to insult you or anything, it’s just you’re making a case with no evidence to back it up.

“like, you can’t even concede that maybe it’s possible hank, through his unique situation of having never touched a girl, would use humor as a defense mechanism around them?”

Sure, it’s possible. But list some evidence. ’cause I’ve listed a TON that he’s been showing he’s got this style of humor and that he hasn’t been able to spot or believe he’s getting iois and hasn’t known how to escalate off those iois.

on July 8th, 2016 at 2:03 pm
Original Link

“agree. humor doesn’t give tingles (see 90% of stand up comedians)”

lol no. Do you guys think every pickup looks like James Bond? You just have to add a sexual edge to the humor and show intent with the girl. Tons of stand-up comedians COULD be getting laid like crazy, except they don’t know how to pull the trigger. It’s not about being scared to make a connection and shit, it’s just no one explained to them “hey dummy an ioi looks like this, and when you see this ioi, qualify her and then go into comfort”

If they KNOW how to go into A3 and are consistently AVOIDING it (AFTER they know to do it, which hasn’t been hank’s case until now (my point to Scray)), then YA, sure, they’re hiding behind it. But up till this point hank has just been lacking knowledge.

“I should joke about old men wanting to fuck me”
“contrast this with ya’s riff about how he was just supposed to meet a fuckbuddy but her boyfriend got back into town early”

The difference is just that I’m lacing mine with more DHVs in less words because I understand game better. I’ve said the same “old men wanting to fuck me” stuff as hank but I would add more DHVs/intent into it. Once he gets the hang of how to DHV, he’ll naturally streamline/aim things better just like Naturals telling the same story over and over until they have an efficient streamlined version of it that they know people enjoy hearing lol

“Are they really rare? I seem to attract these types of guys in my life for whatever reason. Life of the party, hilarious, literally rub their balls in girls faces types of guys. lol. etc. Ever since I’ve gotten into this stuff I’ve been thinking to myself. Wow, all those guys need is to learn how to escalate. Period.”

This. Like, maybe if you just hang out with guys who get laid it seems like these guys are rare, but these guys are the VAST majority of dudes out there in the nightlife scene. Those groups of dudes getting bottle service and shit aren’t Steve Urkel, they’re cool social guys with female friends and shit and girls who are into them, who are just too chode to know how to pull the trigger. These guys are EVERYWHERE lol

on July 8th, 2016 at 2:54 pm
Original Link

“the stuff he comes up when he riffs always seem to derail him moving forward. it’s a pattern.”

Because he didn’t know he should move forward until now and he doesn’t know how TO move forward smoothly yet lol The pattern I see is he likes black chicks because they’re outgoing and more engaging which means he enjoys more energetic back and forth conversations over the boring ESL “pulling teeth to open them up” convos. The pattern I see is he keeps coming up with raunchy offensive sexual things to say when we say “come up with something funny to you”. The pattern I see is he hasn’t known that “you’re not that creepy” even IS an ioi let alone how to move forward on it until now lol

“you can chalk it up to that, or you can chalk it up to ‘shit getting nervous about having to push forward, here let me tell a joke or say some funny shit…’”


“Totally possible, but….”

tbh, my read of it is:

– you hang out with a closer social circle than I do, where people get to know eachother and their flaws and gossip around the group etc…whereas Hank is approaching randos, not girls at a social circle house party.

– you hang out with cooler guys who get laid (Blue Pill cool guys aren’t talking shit about guys not being able to pull the trigger because THEY don’t know how to pull the trigger EITHER…only guys who get LAID go “ya he’s cool but he doesn’t know how to pull the trigger” which is why I’m assuming you have like a handful of close buds who get laid a bunch and you don’t roll out with Blue Pill guys like Andy and I are describing much lol) so guys like hank are more rare to you because they’re just background decoration at the bar, you hang with the top dogs of the group

– you’re seeing something that’s SUPER OBVIOUS to you from your perspective, or are jacked up on a state high, and legitimately don’t REALIZE that you haven’t provided anything from hank’s FRs that isn’t just “he didn’t know what iois look like or that he should move into A3″…like a lawyer giving his final statement without realizing he hasn’t stepped the court through the actual evidence he’s basing it on lol

“cool we agree that you’re basing it mostly off of what people who DON’T KNOW them think. I think this is what the diff is. like, maybe I’m viewing it from an inner circle perspective and you’re just riffing on what it’s like MOSTLY.”

This is probably the disconnect. But Hank isn’t gaming girls in his social circle, he’s going up to random strangers who have a 15 second glimpse of him. He’s not walking up to a girl who’s heard about his reputation or surrounded by a peer group or macking a girl he’s known for a year. He’s not IN an “inner circle”, he’s in pure cold approach right now where all that matters is the girl’s view of his value in that first minute or two and he’s walking up with zero real value to her, not hitting up a house party where he knows the coolest guys there when the girl walks in.

So he’s gotta DHV by being congruent to himself and ya, make her laugh and wonder who he is before he goes into this soul searching serious stuff with them.

“to the vast majority of people who aren’t informed about that person, he looks like a bawse. but to the people WHO KNOW them, that isn’t the perception.”

Doesn’t matter what people who know him think. The vast majority of people aren’t informed about him, so what matters is how they perceive him and in his FRs people buy him drinks and talk his ear off and give him A2 iois (that he doesn’t pick up on) etc. There’s NO indication that the people pouring him their wine bottle and telling their son he’s cool are inwardly thinking “ugh, this guy can’t pull the trigger on girls”. All they know is that little glimpse he’s giving them.

There’s NO downside to making her laugh a couple times with sexual humor before going forward. Like, what problem do you have with that exactly? What part of that seems so flawed that he’d better not even TRY it before he changes his gameplan entirely?

“you just point to what he ‘comes up with’ on his own and your impression of what ‘seems’ to self-amuse him. it’s word on a screen, man.”

When you tell a guy “come up with a funny opener” and the guy goes “I don’t know… :(“, that’s one type of guy, that tells you where his headspace is at and what you’re working with. When that guy goes “How about (asexual joke)?”, that’s a different type of guy, that tells you where his headspace is at. When that guy goes “I wanna tell them that this old guy in the bathroom tried to fuck me in the ass”, that’s a VERY SPECIFIC type of humor/personality, that THAT would be his default he comes up with lol The “I don’t know… :(” guy would never even DREAM of writing something like THAT down.

Maybe it’s just something you pick up when you teach a lot of guys and have to calibrate to their personalities or something, but these are neon green lights to me.

“the derailing happens at similar points……it’s at the jokes……”


“In his hard case video he says there’s something off about him and it seems like it’s been that way since the start…..”

Ya ’cause he’s a wise old man reflecting on shit and glossing over other shit. I can POST oldschool Tyler FRs and infield if you want lol They’re just massive Buying Temp explosion-fests.

“No, you’re just choosing to interpret one set of facts in ONE way and ignore other possible ways to interpret them.”

You’re not providing ANY facts. Just “this is a thing that CAN happen, so that’s what’s happening”, not based on anything in his FRs except “he didn’t know to go to A3” which he does now.

“one way: needs to spot iois and just remember to push to A3. Another way: is pushing just fine, then gets scared and hides behind humor, which derails him and keeps him from moving forward.”

He LITERALLY DID NOT KNOW HOW TO DO A3 OR SEE IOIS. I mean, ya, we COULD just make up a wild interpretation like “oh he’s derailing at the joke stage when he tries to stick his dick in her mouth” but there’s ZERO evidence that he’s even been TRYING to stick his dick in her mouth so that’s just like, made up, lol It’s not supported by the FRs where he VERY CLEARLY doesn’t see he’s getting iois and isn’t even TRYING to go to A3 properly with them, he’s just throwing out a generic “So uhhh wanna hang out?” close because he’s only JUST NOW LEARNED WHAT A3 IS ABOUT lol

“get more reference experiences outside that comfort zone and then come back and see if the same things make you laugh.”

How about we let him get some reference experiences of ACTUALLY TRYING TO GET A3 in his crazy comfort zone trap here. Since, you know, he HASN’T EVEN TRIED IT BEFORE. And if after a few weeks of ACTUALLY TRYING TO GET A3 NOW THAT HE KNOWS WHAT IT IS, he’s STILL avoiding A3 to joke around, then COOL I will be on board with you 100%.

“I have, you’re just refusing to interpret it as something other than “He just hasn’t known what iois look like or how to take it to A3 from them.””

Because that’s LITERALLY what’s happening in his FRs. You think he’s just like, “I can tell this girl wants to fuck me but in my FR I’m going to just pretend I didn’t know”? Based on what? No newbie can spot iois right away, it takes them a while to even believe they WOULD get them let alone that “nah you’re not creepy” IS one and isn’t just “she’s being nice”.

“Personal experience isn’t really that bad to draw on”

It’s not, but hank’s experiences that he’s writing in his FRs is more important than your experience or my experience. If his default “write down an opener” response was “I wanna ask if she’s into astrology” then sure, great, let’s send him down that path. But it’s NOT lol Maybe down the road it WILL be, who knows, but right now he’s giving ALL THE SIGNS of a guy who’s got a Julien style sense of humor and he should be exploring that trying to take that into A3 just like Julien and I do, before he sidetracks himself with stuff that isn’t his natural default.

“And again, a ton of guys get hung up on being dancing monkeys. Now, you summarily dismissed them as ‘they don’t do anything right.’”

A ton of guys fail at starting a business, a ton of guys fail at getting jacked like Arnold. None of that matters if the guy doing those things is given proper information and has proper enthusiasm to succeed. You can’t say to a guy who’s gone to the gym but not ACTUALLY lifted any weights “dude, those bicep curls you aren’t even doing, are wrong, you should do squats instead” It doesn’t make any sense. Give the guy a few weeks to try doing some bicep curls before you change his whole exercise routine up.

on July 9th, 2016 at 4:16 pm
Original Link

Quick drive-by cause I gotta hit the shower asap:

You forgot to quote the part above that emotional bit, you know, where he’s flat out confirming exactly what I’m saying:

“This is very true. I like talking about offensive things, breaking social norms. Its funny to me. Or poking at people to get funny responses from them — like with the Clarissa deal with SJF. And I like to get girls to blow up — like with the stripper bit the other day with thedrive thru waitress, or the “juts buy me a cookie.” blakc girls.

The stuff I really WANT to do is much more in line with Julien than the other guys I have seen. Because its funny to ME. Once I get better and can bang a few girls and get over that hump, I could completely go out and just spike the shit out of BT and let it drop there, and still have a great time. Again, its not about making the girls laugh to impress them, its because their REACTION is funny to me.

And that is really it. People being very EMOTIONAL becuase of something *I* did is hysterical to me.”

Emotional impact is key. Yes you CAN get emotional impact through serious shit. But you can also get it through all the shit Julien does and that’s more in line with how Hank enjoys interacting with people. So just roll with it and add in A3 and he’ll be just fine.

“Of course, I may later find that I do that through more serious stuff, or from rapport, or whatever. But in field I find I like to do humorous stuff. If I had to guess, I think I will probably do more blatantly offensive shit like Julien does when I get better.”

You probably will lol

“and I think it will be MUCH easier to use styles that naturally resonate and self-amuse me, rather than trying another style that feels clunky and bores the hell out of me.”

This is all I’m saying. Like I don’t get the hounding to do what doesn’t naturally come to you when you can just tweak that a bit to add in A3 and get results. Makes no sense, ESPECIALLY when he’s REGULARLY getting A2 in his FRs from DOING it. “Hey, see that thing that’s really fun to you and almost totally working but just needs a slight push with this A3 thing? THROW IT ALL OUT, DEAR GOD, MAKING A GIRL LAUGH IS A BAD HABIT, NUKE THAT SHIT NUKE IT WITH FIRE AHHHHH IF ANYONE REACTS TO YOU INFIELD OR YOU EVEN *TRY* TO MAKE A GIRL SMILE YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG AHHH NOW DO THIS THING THAT *I* LIKE DOING THAT MAKES GIRLS SMILE INSTEAD!!!” lol like what??

The dude could shave TONS of time off his progress by just doing what’s natural to him but with some chessboard strategy framework underneath it. That’s the whole point of PUA is learning to express yourself congruently and naturally, but with guidance.

The dude is basically able to skip the whole “do stuff that isn’t congruent to you but do it with enough enthusiasm that it comes off congruent enough to get away with and then years down the road try to learn how to self-amuse infield when you hit a plateau where game isn’t fun for you” rollercoaster and just go right to learning how to self-amuse in a productive way that gets results.

“do you disagree with this advice — get a stack like this —>

2 or 3 DHV stories/routines
1 cold reading activity
2 or 3 C&F routines
1 or 2 ‘crowd control’ lines (for people who try to fuck with you, ex: ‘is she always like this?’ or another good one ‘who brought their little sister to the bar/mall/wherever?’

does that advice look like ‘you’re doing the wrong curls’ or whatever else?”

No man, that advice is great. The question is why are you changing that to “SERIOUS opener, 2 or 3 SERIOUS DHV stories/routines, 1 SERIOUS cold reading activity, 2 or 3 SERIOUS C&F routines, 1 or 2 SERIOUS crowd control lines”?

Let the guy play infield and have some fun out there with his style of humor lol Julien was running the exact same Mystery Method game everyone else was until he decided to start self-amusing out there and we learned “holy shit you really CAN open a girl by shouting “DOG!! SLUT!!” at them, who the fuck would have guessed THAT??” and started piecing together that it’s the self-amusement that makes it work and the more you find what amuses you to do in interactions, the better your sets go…add in some A3 and bam, you’re on your way.

“so it seems like everyone agrees but doesn’t like all this ‘be more serious’ talk, apparently.”

Because it comes off a lot like “don’t waste your time watching that Judd Apatow movie” “relax man, he likes Judd Apatow movies” “Ya they’re fun!” “NO, watch documentaries instead, because I like documentaries” lol Girls love laughing. If you love making girls laugh, just fuck around the whole set all the way to the bedroom. Shit I joke around DURING sex with some girls. Tyler talks about raspberrying girls bellies in bed as part of his LMR disarming instead of “I feel like we have this deep special connection” stuff to disarm it.

Comfort/Rapport being serious is cool, but there’s NO reason for A1-A3 to be serious at all. It CAN be, if you’re a serious guy naturally, and that’s cool, but you can fuck around with humor all the way to Comfort if you want and if it’s more natural to you at whatever point in your life you’re at.

Just let him go have fun…STRUCTURED fun lol If it doesn’t work he can try some other angles, but this is his natural instinct right now at this point in his life and if he can make it work he’ll make crazy progress compared to most newbies who go out wearing gloves that don’t fit.

Like I need to add arguing on Twitter to my “spend all day arguing on TRM” schedule lol

@Forge the Sky
“Don’t worry, I think you’re BOTH pretty.”

No more drinking for Forge.

on July 10th, 2016 at 3:24 pm
Original Link

Kino’s not necessary. It’s just a tool like any other to demonstrate “I’m comfortable with human touch, man to woman touch, sexuality, etc” You can demonstrate that in other ways, from sexual stories/conversation topics, to good sexual laser eye-contact, voice tonality, cutting space (whispering sexy stuff in her ear) etc etc

I rarely kino and often don’t even touch the girl until we’re in my apartment (aside from holding my elbow out with my hand in my pocket for her to hook her arm in arm-in-arm on our way to my apartment from the Day2 location).

Physical approaches are cool, but you don’t NEED kino so don’t worry about it.

on July 10th, 2016 at 5:47 pm
Original Link

“Lol, I am surprised to read this. I woulda bet the farm that you were a kino guy. Idk why I assumed that, but I guess I just got a vibe from you that way.”

I’ve DONE and can DO kino, I started out with lots of it because back in the day it was a core part of the system like peacocking or palm-reading (yes Scray I’ve done the serious cold-read stuff too lol). And I still do it here and there for fun but it’s rare for me.

Kino comes with some downsides, like raising ASD if she’s worried about her friends seeing you groping her, or triggering orbiters/cockblocks into action, visually it comes off more like the guy “preying” on the girl (like a potential Cosby old guy taking advantage of young naive drunk chicks situation) in nightclub environments etc…as a mid-30s guy in nightclubs full of young chicks, when one of her orbiter peers sees me touching her, they pay more attention to us than I’d like.

But when they look over and just see her talking to an older man and he’s just standing there while she’s having fun, they’re more likely to feel like she’s choosing me, or that we’re just having a harmless chat, and she’s less likely to worry about what her friends think (who might know her peer-aged boyfriend who’s a harmless chode that she keeps around just so she doesn’t have to deal with other chodey peers hitting on her), etc.

And outside of nightclubs, like you say, in 2016 it can be risky to kino a co-worker or something, especially one that’s taken. But with just sexual humor/conversation topics and eye-contact I can turn on and sexually attract a girl who’s man is sitting beside her in the conversation WITH us, because I’m not doing anything overt…half the time guys are so oblivious to subcomms and attraction and iois that they can’t even tell she wants to fuck me lol But if I had to kino her, I’d probably end up in fights with those guys or cockblocked more.

On a Day2 all I need is eye-contact and sexual humor/conversation. I probably don’t even need the eye-contact either, I used to escalate via sexual humor/conversation in txt messages and online chats all the time where it’s literally just the content of what I’m saying doing the turning on. Seducing girls over the phone too, but I didn’t do that often because I always preferred txting.

“So lemmeasku, do you think it’s harder to get a chick without physical contact?”

My pulls look literally exactly the same as anyone else’s except my hands aren’t on the girl. Otherwise they can happen just as fast, and the girl gets just as sexually attracted etc. Laser eye-contact and cutting space (Richard Laruina Forumla For Night Game video (around the 20 min mark I think, when he demonstrates on the girl) and Liam Mcrae’s Rapid Escalation videos I always link) while talking about sexual topics (displaying comfort with sexuality etc) skyrockets sexual tension/attraction in girls. It’s just most guys don’t do it so they don’t know lol

The 50 Shades of Grey book can’t kino girls, or do laser eye-contact, or use vocal tonality, but it’s on the bookshelves of a fucking jillion women who were soaking wet reading it. Women’s imaginations/minds are what turn them on…you can tap into that a lot of different ways. Kino is one of them, but it’s not a requirement if you understand why that book turns girls on.

“I mean, I know it’s done, but it seems like it would take a bit more intricate wordsmanship to accomplish.”

I guess so. I don’t know, I’m a talkative guy. I like the back and forth of a good conversation lol So it’s not really any effort to me. It’s just that when most guys are talking about “oh so do you go to school here? That’s cool what are you taking, oh you’re into teaching? That’s cool, you must find that rewarding, what grade do you teach?” and kino’ing, I’m talking about “I’m too old for you…you must be a student. I thought so, what are you taking? A teacher? Hmmm, you must be distracting to the boys in your class. (lean in with laser locked eye-contact and low slow voice tonality, or whisper in her ear) I think I’m going to have to do something bad and get myself detention…but I’m not the one who’s getting spanked with the ruler…”

So we’re both talking the same amount, it’s just that what I’m saying is demonstrating my comfort with sex and crossing boundaries and getting physical with women and man to woman communication etc If I was talking about lame shit like the first guy, then I would probably need kino to demonstrate that sexual side.

“If I can’t gauge how much a chick is digging me, I will always put hands on her in some fashion to see how much she recoils, or how loud she screams. Lol.”

You do a physical compliance test, I do verbal ones. It’s all the same thing. If a girl isn’t playing along with the sexual things I’m saying, then I don’t have enough attraction yet and need to calibrate by backing off the sexuality and just DHV’ing normal stuff (like making her laugh or building deeper serious comfort/rapport, whatever lol) and then pushing the conversation into sexual territory again and seeing if she plays along now. If she plays along, then I know where she’s at with regards to attraction.

For example: if I tell a sexual story about fucking an ex in a bathroom during a wedding (sounds more romantic/adventurous/fun than a story about fucking a random bar chick in a nightclub bathroom lol so even that stuff is calibrated) and then ask her (because you open up first and then other people will open up to you because you set the precedent, VS asking her to open up first, standard psychology thing) where the craziest place she’s had sex is, she’s gonna answer 1 of 3 ways:

1) “uhhh…I don’t know…(looks a little uncomfortable/nervous)” – not enough attraction to get compliance, so I toss the question away and back off the sexual stuff to DHV normally, like “lol sorry I always fuck up the being a gentleman thing…what I MEANT to ask was why you decided to go into teaching? No seriously, I’m curious, I have a friend who became a teacher because she (bla bla asexual story)” and then push forward again later (classic PUA “two steps forward one step back” escalation) Also this sets off my screens as “this girl probably isn’t very sexually experienced/adventurous” which will cause me to screen her harder when she DOES start opening up, to make sure I’m not getting a virgin starfish lay lol

2) “hmmm well there was this one time at the beach where…” – compliance, so a decent amount of attraction, in my mind when this happens it registers to me as this will probably end up being a lay if I don’t fuck up, like it’s a done deal to me if she plays along like this. Here I’ll just keep the sexual topics going but keep them around this level of risque until I notice her getting more into it and then escalate them. I’m looking for her to start giving compliance like:

3) “omg so there was this one time where!!–” – MASSIVE compliance, tons of attraction, 100% done deal to me from there. Here I’ll just take it as far as I feel like.

The reason what I’m doing works is that a lot of guys are scared of sexuality and uncomfortable saying these things etc and they’ll verbally test for compliance with asexual conversation instead…like oh she told me about her family. zzzzz. lol

“I physically stay at arm’s length when chatting with female coworkers to restrain my habit.”

You’d still do fine even arm’s length I’m sure. You have good subcomms, tonality, eye-contact, dominant frame, etc etc

“I have been amazed at the stuff chicks will tolerate physically.”

lol to me it’s not about what they’ll tolerate, it’s more about what’s going to get me to my goal efficiently and what’s versatile…if I’m sitting across the table from a girl where I can’t really touch her or she’s with her protective friends, whoops, no kino allowed, so I better know how to build attraction without it.

“Lol, I’m a caveman that doesn’t understand the legal danger on some level. Lmao.”

lol and that’s fine, especially when you have solid subcomms from a lifetime of experience with women. But watching a newbie kino can be pretty cringey. I prefer guys learn to kino in crowded nightclubs where girls are more open to it and no one’s paying attention to you etc, VS trying to kino the store clerk in a store with her boss watching lol

“The only thing I won’t do is slap a stranger on the ass, or put my hands on their chests.”

lol I’ve done both in the first 30 seconds of an interaction but it’s calibrated, I wouldn’t do that fully blind personally. Like one I used to use a lot is girls tend to naturally touch a guy’s chest as they talk when they’re attracted so I would call them out on molesting me and then grab their tits back to even the score lol But I had enough A2 indicators (her touching my chest) for me to do that, it was calibrated even if it happens quickly.

“But if a chick allows me to put my hands on her face, to me, that means more than letting me slap her on the ass. Stranger’s hands in face is usually a no-no.”

Yup, your physical compliance tests are fine. It’s totally fine to do it that way and every guy SHOULD experiment with kino infield for a while.

“I pictured you out in the field with your arm around a honey’s waist.”

It happens, but it’s not necessary is all.

I don’t have any issue with guys using kino or being encouraged to. I only take issue with absolute statements about how it’s mandatory to kino and you can’t fuck her without kino’ing and how kino’ing is a mandatory part of the seduction etc

My philosophy, which comes from our heavy field-testing culture in the oldschool PUA community days, is that whenever you think something in seduction is absolute, go out and try the opposite for 6-12 months and see if you can still get results (the first month is just adjusting TO doing the opposite and all the mental baggage and self-doubt that’ll bring out so you need a few months to adjust and start gaming the same way you did before but with this new opposite thing you’re doing).

Like I have a friend who’s hair is starting to thin and he’s worried he’s going to get a bald spot. When he gets one if he starts making excuses to not approach or escalate because of it then I’ll probably shave a bald spot into my hair and go sarge with him just to show that it doesn’t matter and take away his excuses so I can have my confident wingman back lol

If you think you NEED good verbals then spend 6+ months doing silent approaches. If you think you NEED to be dressed a certain way, spend 6+ months dressing the opposite way. etc etc That’s how we shatter limiting beliefs and build stronger internal confidence.

Part of why I have all these “crazy” views that a lot of guys who go out but DON’T push their comfort zones disagree with (like the Red Pill guys focused on looks or RVF guys focused on suits etc) is because they find a pattern that gets them laid and then just triple-down on it and stick to it and build an identity around it and never fuck with it once they have it because if they did they might not get some girls…so they never actually go experiment outside of their comfort zones and when they do they half-ass it or don’t do it for long enough for the psychology of removing a crutch to normalize so they can game the same way they did before but without their suit or nice haircut or whatever.

You’ll find most guys who agree with me on the looks stuff have fucked with their comfort zones a lot…like Julien wore the same shirt out without washing it for months and was still pulling, so how much is he going to give a shit about what shirt he’s wearing compared to the guy who always “has” to wear his lucky shirt when he goes out and feels unconfident or disadvantaged if he’s not wearing it?

If I was taking any of you guys here into the actual field with me, the first thing I would do is take away any of your crutches. Blaximus wouldn’t be allowed to touch any girls and would have to go to the club alone so he has no friend to build energy with. Rollo would have to eat a huge meal and dress in baggy clothes so he looks fat, probably sweatpants too and no recent haircut. theasdgamer wouldn’t be allowed to dance or mention dancing. Culum would only be allowed to interact with girls under 25 and he and Scribblerg would have to tell girls their age as their opener and tell them they’re poor and work at McDonald’s (to remove the possibility of being a Sugar Daddy).

(hank is an exception because hank is a newbie…in a few years of hank going out after he’s been getting laid and has developed habits/beliefs around it, THEN I would look at what his crutches are and take them away)

“Now I have to picture you in a livingroom with your arm around her waist, and P in V.”

It’s usually around her throat, not her waist.

(see what I did there? I used a little humor to demonstrate that I’m comfortable with sex and to indicate to this sexy Blaximus girl in front of me that if we fuck I’m probably going to be dominant in bed and fuck her James Deen style, hope you didn’t soak your chair thinking about it Blax…whoops, I did it again there too)

“Unless your a newbie who doesn’t know how to kino……….Then you have to learn how to kino because it is necessary unless you know how to do it already ( and can escalate without it)”

Nah, you could just learn to do all the stuff I described above to build sexual tension instead. But like I say, most guys will talk about puppydogs and ice cream instead of sexual topics so ya, they should learn to kino so they can demonstrate they’re comfortable with sexuality.

All that matters is flipping that “I’m comfortable with sex” switch, however you do it doesn’t matter. Just like whatever specific story you tell to demonstrate leader of men or preselection doesn’t really matter as long as it flips those switches.

PUA is just about efficiently flipping the switches that other guys take 3+ dates to stumble around until they accidentally manage to flip them. Whereas we teach guys to just bee-line for the light switch panel and give them tools to flip each switch quickly.

“He has a lot of PUA skill to overcome this.”

Like I say, it’s fine to DO kino. I’m just pointing out the absolute statements that kino is necessary are inaccurate. And the ways to get around kino aren’t some magic “only a PUA with 50 years of experience can do it” skillset…it’s just understanding the difference between “oh you’re a nurse, you must be nurturing” (no hate Scray, just using an example of something that isn’t sexual in terms of actual word-content. say this is a txt message or something) and “oh you’re a nurse, hmmm I think I might need a spongebath later”

There’s no crazy high-level skillset behind overcoming it…you just have to learn how to have sexual conversations properly which is something a guy learning PUA should be working on anyway.

on July 10th, 2016 at 6:08 pm
Original Link

@Rollo @Blaximus @SJF
“Using effective Neg Hits, demonstrating higher value (DHV) and making your target see you as the PRIZE is essential. Kino without a pretext of higher value only worsens your approach and you slip into the creepy zone.”

And just for the sake of accuracy, going back to the subcomms stuff, you can DHV with just your subcomms if they’re tight enough which is how Tyler’s “hand of god” opener (just make eyes with a girl and extend his hand for her to take and then pull her in and kino her) or “pick the girl up in his arms and spin her around” move he does these days (again off some eye-contact subcomm stuff that happens in a split second) etc

Like you don’t necessarily need to say anything or do anything that takes more than a second or two, to have DHV’ed enough to kino.

That’s why Blaximus says this:

“I don’t know why that hasn’t yet been the case. I will initiate physical contact, sometimes before even opening my mouth.”

It’s not some weird crazy anomaly or that Rollo is wrong. It’s that Blaximus has solid subcomms on display before he even opens his mouth, so he gets enough receptiveness/A2 just off his subcomms that he can do this.

This is again why I stress understanding how and why subcomms spike attraction. If we remove the concept of subcomms then what Blaximus and Tyler are doing doesn’t make any sense and goes against what Rollo wrote.

In the early days we just didn’t realize how FAST you could spark attraction with good subcomms (probably because none of us HAD them yet, let alone were consciously aware of them lol). So kino was more for once you’re in set. Now we understand this stuff better and can consistently explain what Blaximus is experiencing and it doesn’t contradict the oldschool teaching, it’s just the threshold for how fast it can work is lower than we assumed now that we’ve field tested it more.

on July 10th, 2016 at 6:21 pm
Original Link

“Lmfao. Best chuckle of the day.”

lol it’s also a demo of how part of the way I handle guys infield is figuring out what their crutches are as fast as possible (in seconds of observing them ideally).

Like most guys wear their crutches/insecurities on their sleeve. A guy who’s jacked or dressed nice with a nice haircut probably believes looks matter so to compete with him I’ll just show that I don’t value looks and get the girls to devalue looks as well (imply that he’s one of those guys obsessed with the gym and guys who put more work into their looks than girls are probably insecure and make fun of my own looks in a self-depreciating confident way etc), which takes away his confidence.

Then to befriend him I’ll give looks value again like “Nah I’m just messin with ya, really it’s impressive that you have that kind of dedication man. I wish I could get jacked but I don’t really know wtf I’m doing with that stuff” and ask him for some lifting advice etc, so he gets to feel like an expert teaching me and I nod my head along etc and now he’s my new BFF because I essentially disqualified him then qualified him, sending him on a rollercoaster of emotions with an ending where he’s won me over and earned my validation lol Same shit you can do to girls.

Same thing with a guy who’s dressed expensive or has a blingy watch/car/etc, or an MMA lookin guy who’s mean-mugging, or a guy who’s on the dance floor half the night, these guys are all telling everyone what their crutches are and as a PUA you can use that to lower or raise their value and your own value depending on your goals (taking the girls, befriending him, pulling girls together, making him feel shitty because he tooled your buddy, etc).

Like to befriend an older guy in a nightclub who looks nervous, he’s telling me that his age is his insecurity by his body-language and facial expression etc (VS how Blaximus would look, where he’s not really self-conscious so he wouldn’t give off the same subcomms), so all I have to do is joke about feeling too old to be there. Then they always laugh and tell me they’re older than me and I say no way I wouldn’t have guessed it and then riff about whatever who cares girls love older men anyway all these girls have daddy issues bla bla and get him laughing and feeling good and now I’m his new BFF and he’ll probably buy me drinks and he may have a good time or more confidence in the long-run because of that conversation.

Now it’s POSSIBLE that a guy who’s demonstrating something specific they’ve clearly worked hard to harness and are confident about, DOESN’T base all of their worth on that thing…but it’s VERY rare. Like 0.01% rare. It’s just human nature to demonstrate the thing you feel is high-value about you when you engage with girls or go to a nightclub/bar etc.

But this is all pretty nuanced/advanced shit lol Like I say I always promote befriending guys over AMOG’ing them assholishly. But these are the little glitches in the Matrix that let me out-game guys I shouldn’t, by society’s standards, be able to out-game.

on July 10th, 2016 at 6:30 pm
Original Link

“Now THAT’S Dedication.”

lol the reality is I’ll probably have a bald spot or go bald myself one day so it would be for both our benefit…I get my confident wingman back because his brain is forced into a corner where he can’t make excuses to not push his sets, and I gather reference experience evidence for myself that my hair doesn’t matter. Win/win. But I hope he has strong enough internal game to not care when it happens ’cause I LIKE my hair lol But whatever it takes.

Note that the idea that I might shave a bald spot in my hair and then NOT be able to get girls doesn’t even enter my mind. That’s like alien talk to me, I don’t even understand those words in that order, it’s so outside of my reality that it would matter…which are the subcomms I’d be approaching with.

“I watch and listen as girls comment on his thick, wavy silver hair”

I can’t fucking WAIT till I have grey hair. That would look so badass lol Grey hair is COOL now. In the 80s you’d see commercials for hair dying products for men all the time but you don’t see those much if ever these days because grey hair is now associated with cool older male celebrities, the Silver Foxes of Hollywood.

“but any guy here in the comments would see that his hair isn’t what the chicks think it is”

lol same with my sick muscles girls keep telling me they love that any of you guys would go “wtf are they delusional??” if you met me.

“It’s cool. I keep my chair wrapped in plastic for just such an occasion.”

I actually keep a stack of plastic mattress covers in my closet lol

on July 11th, 2016 at 4:57 pm
Original Link

“I find this kind of reaction in the mid to late 20s group. many of them are boring and lonely, just working and watching netflix and drinking and their friend group has been replaced by work acquaintances and they are mentally unstable after riding the carousel for a decade so they think everything is a threat because they watched some reruns of csi or something at night when they can’t sleep.”

lol so accurate. I can’t even count the number of girls I’ve met/known who spend their like, random Tuesday night drinking a bottle of wine alone watching Netflix and the calories add up as they slack off at the gym and become sloths. It’s so depressing to me. Like, you have ONE JOB. Just don’t eat garbage and do a few situps and you’ll have access to BILLIONAIRES lol And then they wonder why they can’t find a man.

“see this is what i was afraid of. this like centimeter disagreement between me and ya now creating a monster with you dudes ‘NAH KINO TOO BRO IT’S ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY’ and other stuff.”

lol this. It’s funny because it’s a convo that in private you and I would have sorted out in minutes, but posting it publically it’s like, there are a dozen lurkers and regulars with their radars tuned ready to jump out of the shadows and go “AHA!!! I KNEW IT!! LOOKS MATTER!!!” or whatever and then 3 posters reply to them and it becomes this shitshow snowball effect because I forgot to add a disclaimer about some obscure nuance that I know you already know about lol Like Rollo’s whole “WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD CONSULT WITH SCRAY SINCE YOU’RE BOTH SAYING DIFFERENT THINGS” fit in the looks thread. Fucking nightmare lol Or guys with purely good intentions who throw their hat in but forget some nuances that end up with it coming off like “Kino is 100% necessary” which can mess with newbies like hank goes out there trying to figure out how to grope a salesclerk behind her counter because it’s necessary apparently lol

But I think there’s a lot to learn from our back and forth over hank so whatever. I don’t think we even actually disagree, it’s just hard to clarify our points in public where we have to add disclaimers and shit for the lurkers who are DYING to find any evidence that confirms their biases or lets them discount other stuff we’ve said to stay in their comfort zones and keep their limiting beliefs.

“when you save kino til the end, you can get some massive benefits — like waaaaaay less ASD and LMR.”

Ya that too. ’cause SHE’S choosing YOU at that point. Again this goes back to classic Mystery Method. The “DHV until she’s showing A2, then allow her to WIN YOUR INTEREST” was about making HER chase YOU. For a bunch of years RSD pushed the “chase her and plow” style which worked great because of the culture at the time (social media was minimal, no Tinder or Instagram, guys were less ballsy and had less avenues to interact with women (vs now where they can hide behind a txt message)). But now that technology has given women 500 Likes for a pic of them making a sad frown face from the age of 16 (and under), and a lot of those Likes are from guys who LOOK high-value, I think Mystery Method style game is going to be MUCH better for guys to be using…be the only Like she CAN’T get and the other 500 Likes will be meaningless to her in comparison.

I have a girl HOUNDING me to get Snapchat and follow her and become just another orbiter. She has the best of intentions, she posts funny stuff and sexy pics etc and thinks she’s giving me value by me getting to see that stuff. And she’s biologically hardwired to try to make me an orbiter to test my frame (beta’ization basically). But she doesn’t understand that the more of that I do, the lower my value will drop to her because it puts me in a chasing/pedestalizing frame and lumps me in with her orbiter chodes. But she can’t understand why I won’t do it, like it seems INSANE to her that I’m passing up the chance to see her sexy pics and funny videos of her playing with her cat and oh look what I found in the grocery store today lololz etc stuff.

And she even understands ASD instinctively, she’s like with the 10 second deletion thing girls are more likely to send sexy drunk pics etc but to me it’s like, I don’t want PICS, I want you, in my bed lol If you want to interact with me and enjoy my company/attention, come be in front of me in person where we can actually have sex. By avoiding letting myself get categorized with the rest of the herd, my attention/validation stays higher value than theirs.

Cause at the end of the day, who’s she contacting when she needs to actually FUCK? Me, the one guy who DOESN’T have Snapchat who’s attention she has to chase. If I gave my attention away for free it wouldn’t mean anything and she would eventually lose attraction.

“I always made her stay like 15 mins, like ‘here just have a glass of water a sec, you’re dehydrated’ and then get her in a happy, fun mood before she left. It just makes the whole experience seem more complete to me, and helps forestall negative emotions she might feel, so win-win.”

It probably seems dumb to some guys or clingy to her, but better safe than sorry. Sometimes girls will feel Buyer’s Remorse (like after the orgasms they started thinking about their boyfriend they just cheated on) and want to bail ASAP just because they don’t want to feel bad feels in front of you, but if you can keep them engaged for a bit and get them feeling some good emotions you’re much better off.

“I mean, part of it is the fact that I’m like 70% TotH 30% PloS guy.”

lol I’m like 100% Thrill of the Hunt. That’s part of why I love the field so much and go try retarded shit out and explore all these different techniques and ideas etc

“the initial meet was 5 minutes, the day 2 was a little over an hour (always make the day 2’s brief — it’s an hour of DHV/comfort time with light if any kino and maybe a light kiss at the end)”

“The Thin Man uses the same Day2/Day 3 model (posts on Sedfast) because he doesn’t like LMR. Initial pick up is brief… short Day 2 and then drink and his place day 3.”

Ya, this is where I’m starting to head toward with my Day 2s. I feel like a lot of girls in this Tinder culture are trying to make themselves seem like “not just Tinder hookup sluts” by trying to put up more token resistance, and because dating culture has gotten so casual and guys are SO fucking thirsty that they expect NO EFFORT at all from girls so she’s got 20 Tinder dates that month that called her gorgeous and bought her dinner etc when she showed up looking like ass, half the time girls show up to dates dressed like shit or with unshaved legs etc like just completely not expecting to have sex (in the past a date was an “event” you could plan weeks in advance and a girl would get all done up excited for, now it’s more like make spontaneous plans and just show up as they are).

So now I’m more regularly leaning toward just shrugging and ending the date early (basically just DHV and a romantic kiss I pull away from first, doing a huge takeaway on a high point where she’s attracted) because I don’t want to deal with LMR from a girl who showed up in jeans and a t-shirt who’s going to put up LMR all night lol It’s hard to let go of the old Day 2 style though because it worked SO GODDAMN GOOD. I had an insane close rate, basically if a girl showed up for a Day 2 we were having sex by the end of it like 90%+ of the time. Gotta adapt to the culture though.

It’s not that I CAN’T get past their arbitrary LMR rules, it’s just that 1) if they aren’t dolled up then the prize isn’t really worth it to me, I don’t just want sex, I like sex with girls done up pornstar style for me (that’s part of why I prefer casual FBs over LTRs where you’re fucking your LTR after she’s taken all her makeup off and is in her ugly pyjamas and hasn’t had her nails done in a few weeks and shit lol), and 2) I’m lazier in my old age, way less tolerance for bullshit. You got a rule to not put out the first night? Okay, then I’m pulling the plug on the date in under an hour when you were expecting to have my attention for a few hours…you don’t get my attention/time/validation for free, you can go find some Tinder chode for that lol

Actually more funny to me has been to act as if I’m suddenly turned off. I described this to Culum a while back, but basically qualify her on something but whatever she says don’t let her pass, so disqualify her but just do it through subcomms like “oh that’s cool” but give off the vibe that she just “lost” you and end the date ASAP. OR end the date on a high note and then just don’t contact her for a while and when she initiates hanging out again be like “oh you’re a cool chick but I don’t know if we’d work out…I’m used to girls who dress up when we go out and you seem like more of a casual girl, which is cool I know lots of guys love low-maintenance girls. I’m probably too shallow really no wonder I’m single lol” and let her hamster spin that into her showing up done up like she’s going to a wedding next time lol

All stuff to keep messing with this summer. I REALLY like the oldschool Day2 style though…it feels retarded to meet up with a girl and NOT have sex with her. Like wtf are we even doing, just chatting? Get your tits out or SOMETHING, I could be doing a million other things instead of listening to you yap about why you became a nurse!! lol

“‘but I’m a night owl, it doesn’t matter.'”

That’s my “done deal” signal right there.

I think what Sentient is saying about your parking location etc is more for the newbies who might interpret what you’re saying as “make her chase and she’ll make it “just happen”” and next thing you know they have shitty logistics and no place to isolate etc but are expecting the girl to make that all just happen because she’s attracted. She can escalate things and make a bunch of the moves, but you, as the man, have to provide the OPPORTUNITIES for her TO do those things (like providing a place you can be isolated so she can make moves without social judgement). Just so newbies aren’t like “I don’t have to plan anything, I just have to DHV!”

“there’s pretty much a zero percent chance that situ could be construed as rape anything”

She’ll rewrite history if she hates you down the road of course, but ya I know what you’re saying. It’s the same as not triggering her orbiters/cockblocks: if SHE chooses YOU then it’s fine. And again Mystery Method was about displaying value until she chased you. That’s why I harp on MM so much.

“Both men and women want to have sex. It’s natural, except we’re on different timetables. Women want to have sex, like, y’know, fifteen minutes after us, so alright, if you hold out for twenty she’ll be chasing you for five.”

lol dead on. Society promotes the idea that men want sex more than women, and sure I wanna fuck Jessica from the office more than Jessica wants to fuck Bob from the accounting department…but NO ONE wants sex more than a woman who feels like she’s around a high-value Lover triggering her Hypergamy. So if you can DHV and then sit back and “need sex less than her”, she’ll pounce.

“another benefit of early kino… she will feel your strength…”

Just to make a nuanced point: demonstrating strength to girls can be done even without muscles if you understand basic body mechanics. I can manhandle a girl and make her FEEL like I’m strong as fuck and look like I’m doing it all effortlessly (because I’m so “strong”) by just understanding how to fuck with her center of gravity and momentum etc (ESPECIALLY if she’s in heels lol), a little nudge here, a pull at a certain angle there, grab her at a certain spot based on her momentum to completely change her motion and she feels like she’s being tossed around by a beast when I’m doing pretty much nothing. Watch some martial arts vids where the little guy is tossing bigger guys around with just body mechanics lol

It’s all the same thing to girls…it’s not necessarily the muscles themselves that they register, it’s what you’re doing with them, that helpless feeling of a beast they can’t control manhandling them is a massive panty-wetter (and again we get back to the social conditioning that big muscles means more likely to be able to toss her around, just like we’re all surprised when the little martial arts dude flips the big guy over with just a finger grip lol)

Like I’ve said before, this:

NSFW, remove the space in xvideos: img-l3.x

and this:

NSFW, remove the space in tumblr:

pretty much feel the same to women in the moment…pinned down, helpless, dominated, a big mass of weight on top of them, etc

Part of why Scray’s body turns a girl on when she realizes he has it is she imagines what he’ll do to her with it…if he turned out to be a “hands shaking taking off her bra” chode in bed, his body wouldn’t turn her on anymore. The reason girls feel up MY “muscles” (lol) and come back to me and compliment my body etc (which would be hilarious if you saw me, I’m not like the guy in that first pic but just nothing you would expect a girl to think is sexy) is because of what I DO with it.

When I manhandle them James Deen style, even just in the bar when we first meet and I do kino moves like Forge (? I think, too lazy to scroll up) described where you grab the girl’s hand and pull her in and she has to catch her balance on you and now you’re in an embrace pose etc in the bar, they associate my body with “being manhandled” (ESPECIALLY if they’ve been with better looking guys who were Blue Pill chodes in bed that wouldn’t choke them or throatfuck them or shove their face into the mattress etc) and they get turned on when we meet up again, not because my body is actually sexy but because when they see me they look at my body and think “he’s gonna manhandle me again with that thing”

“which is why I am against all the stair step advice… work up to it etc. You learn so much more by pushing every set and it is, 95% of the time, easier to calibrate back from going too far than to push further when you’ve not gone far enough.”

Once you’re out there, ya, push every set. But when you’re taking someone like hank who’s had barely any interaction with women on a sexual level before, or myself when I started out where I was a complete social retard, there’s a period at the start where it’s like just go out and work on the “newbie missions” of saying hi to strangers and being out and learning to feel comfortable being in crowds and engaging with other human beings and actually approaching girls and having real words and sentences come out of your mouth and learn to spot an ioi and learn to TRIGGER an ioi etc

Like after the first lay, then ya, push every single set as far as possible…but I think it’s alright to start off stair-stepping. PUA has a LOT of shit to try to grasp and remember infield at first. But once you understand HOW A1-S3 work, like you aren’t still confused about what A3 actually IS or what A2 looks like etc, then ya, floor the gas pedal.

This is again why I push newbies to go out as much as possible, to get that phase over with as fast as possible so they can do the REAL work that’ll get them laid more lol

@Forge the Sky @scray
““Kiss her, start gently, and then for like 1-2 seconds make the kiss intensely sexual and push forward, and then BREAK….ROLL OFF.”
“Yeah thanks, this is exactly what I need to work on right now.”

Just a drive-by to point out that this is exactly what Mystery prescribed back in MM lol: end the kiss first.

“Felt like I was chasing kino girl like 90% of the time bc I didn’t roll off, so she naturally let me do all the work lol.”

This is why I’m leaning more toward Mystery Method these days. Making her invest and put in effort and chase, over me plowing. She’s got too many options now that are ALL trying to hump her leg 24/7 because of The Thirst, but we want the prize we invest in.

“but if she did take it I pushed forward instead of rolling off or turning it around.”

Gotta show you CAN cross the line, but don’t have to STAY there. A guy who never gets to talk about sex with women will get onto a convo about sex and stay on it FOREVER because holy shit a girl is talking about sex with me, it may never happen again I gotta milk this!!! But a guy who’s used to talking to girls about sex knows that the convo will go back to it at some point, if not with her then with other girls, so he can break off the sexual topic to ask a normal rapport/comfort question or talk about an asexual topic for a bit.

“the roll off is a valuable subcomm. and it applies to every phase of the seduction. when you open, open hard and DHV yourself, but after a short amount of time….roll off. make her invest. if you’re doing your job right, you’re giving her good feelings and making her want more.”

This. Again this is classic MM…backturns, takeaways, push/pull, ignoring the target to engage her friends, jealousy plotlines, engaging your wing when he enters the set instead of focusing on the girl, etc etc All this stuff was to demonstrate value by giving her that “wait but I want more!!” urge in them that we have when the song ends during a lapdance from a stripper and she hops off lol

“alpha lovers don’t do that. nothing is constant with them. here today gone tomorrow so you better pounce today.”

Making them feel a full range of emotions. Just like a Hollywood movie they pay money to experience. The part Blue Pill newbie guys have a hard time processing is that giving them BAD emotions *IS* “giving her good feelings and making her want more”. Just like Dread Game. She WANTS to feel some bad emotions now and then and she WANTS to feel jealousy and insecurity and frustration that she can’t get you etc

@Culum Struan
“Blitz Week starting in ten days and “cold approach” and “younger girls” are priorities”

lol good man. No sugar daddy dates with 30yo girls charging toward the wall.

“I just really like chatting to people and building connections”
“Plus actually having social skills.”

It’s funny how many guys (not you necessarily, just in general) view socializing as a nightmare until they become COMPETENT at it and then they’re like “oh it turns out this is fun and I guess I’m more of a social butterfly than an introvert after all” because it all makes sense to them and they learn to do BETTER than other people at it. This is why I don’t let guys get away with the introvert excuse, most of the time it’s just a cover-up for being too scared/confused in social situations to enjoy it.

“Incidentally, I had a guy tell me that a lot of people bring along the cute girls from their office because if they’re not in the inner circle for networking purposes it’s one of the best ways to actually get attention and “break in” to talking to senior people..with a HB7 by your side..”

In the nightlife women are the REAL currency. Same with situations like this lol The problem now is that we have a 24/7 mobile phone HD video living forever on the Internet full of false anonymous accusations etc recording culture fucking making these situations fucking dangerous compared to pre-smartphones and pre-internet.

I’ve heard of rich guys being targeted by feminists running “honeypots” where they flirt with the guy and get him alone and then they can make up a false accusation. I read some tech dude refuses to be alone with women at conferences no matter what because he’s been targeted. Roosh fell for a “honeypot” luring him out into an angry mob, all recorded on video to live forever on the net of course.

It’s a different world out there now.

“Just curious… You comfortable with a woman president? Not necessarily Hillary, just in general.”

Fuck no. Shit would be a nightmare. Anyone who understands anything about girls and running on their emotions in the moment and changing their mood not their mind and how they ping off their environment for how to feel/decide on things and how they’ll do shit and just hamster rationalize it later would be fucking TERRIFIED to vote for a chick president lol

@Harrison Bergeron
“I know I’ve been giving mixed signals, lover-provider for the majority of our relationship, and that this day would come…but I just couldn’t help myself. Going so long without a girlfriend and having a female WANT me…”

lol don’t sweat it. It’s a trope at this point: the guy who finally starts learning to attract women gets one-itis for the first decently cool HB7 he meets. It’s almost a rite of passage where it’s like “now I get to finally hold hands with a girl and cuddle and watch movies with a girl curled up to me and she compliments me and desires me and omg all the things I dreamt about that I never had I get to experience now”. It’s why Softek is still with his chick.

“But now that she’s given that ultimatum, I can feel myself getting more beta.”

That’s the point OF the ultimatum. πŸ˜‰ She won’t give an ultimatum to a guy she KNOWS will walk out on her without hesitation the second she tries it. She’ll give an ultimatum to the guy that she THINKS is hooked enough that he’ll choose her over losing her.

“Just the fear and scarcity mindset of her taking away all her female attention/validation whatever you want to call it, is causing me to chase it more. (how’s the FI treating me, HABD?)”

lol this goes back to what I said in the earlier convo with Scray Forge etc…this is exactly how SHE feels when you DHV and then do a takeaway. It’s why Julien/Todd recommend if you want an SNL *DON’T* give her your phone number. If you DO then she’s going to think “I don’t have to go with him tonight I can txt him and hang out another time” and she often LEGITIMATELY thinks she WILL hang out again but we all know how that’ll probably turn out when you try to set up a Day2 a week later lol

But if you make it seem like it’s either come with you NOW on an adventure, or lose you FOREVER, after you’ve DHV’ed enough to hook her, she’s more likely to come with you for an SNL over giving you up (WHEN YOU HAVE VALUE TO HER).

“I felt guilty about ‘wasting her time’ as I saw it, since I knew it would never lead to marriage/kids etc., like I was lying to her…”

What’ll snuff this out is when you see/hear that she’s banging a Chad Thundercock Lover a few months later who isn’t going to give her that shit either lol And then you realize she was only valuing that stuff because you were giving off enough Providery vibes for her to think you could give that stuff to her…whereas the Chad is pure Lover so she doesn’t expect it from him and is okay with it.

Like I don’t mind if I go into the ice cream store and they don’t have any chocolate ice cream…I can just get vanilla ’cause vanilla is still delicious. But if I go in and see a bucket of chocolate there and you just won’t sell it to me, but I can SEE IT RIGHT THERE and you just refuse to sell it, I’m going to be more frustrated and probably storm out of the store because you’re not giving me the thing that I KNOW you have and that if you CARED ABOUT ME you would GIVE ME.


“which goes to show: you can read all the RP theory you want, you learn more from experiencing”

Yup, gotta hit the field and gather the hard lessons, even in these situations. I’ve BEEN in some serious LTRs (even a monoLTR, my first LTR was a mono one where I stopped going out entirely and reverted to full beta chode mode lol), and I always thought I wanted them until I had a couple and was like “ehhh, I don’t really enjoy these…the parts of these LTRs I ACTUALLY enjoy are the same parts I get from casual FBs, the LTR just comes with a bunch of stuff that I DON’T enjoy” and learned that I prefer the casual harem thing more.

But I’d never have imagined that back when I was starting out. I thought I’d just get myself a nice cute (average, nothing amazing, I had “realistic” goals after all) girlfriend and settle down. Whoops lol

“Now, though, I’m more afraid of giving her the bad feels of ending it more than anything else, which then gets me thinking “don’t give yourself too much credit, buddy, her world’s not gonna end because of YOU””

lol…”When she ends it, I desire her more…” What do you think will happen to her in terms of desire if YOU end it first? Girls don’t want to end things until they have a new branch to swing to…when you end things first, before they have another branch lined up, it’s a HUGE value takeaway to them. It’s that thing of like “ya I wanna break up–wait wait I didn’t mean NOW!!!! Shit!!!! Now what do I do!!!” lol

This is just an LSNFTE, no biggie. Just re-read the advice I gave to Forge: DON’T lower your value at the end here, which is what 99.9999% of guys do when they get all emo and can’t control their emotions, play proper strategy like I laid out for Forge (either in this thread or the last, can’t remember, where Forge had his girl coming over for the breakup shit).

Understand that this is GOING to end. There’s no getting around that. You CANNOT prevent it from ending. She is at the point where she HAS to go experience other guys to realize how much better she had it with you. The higher you keep your value at the end, the more she compares them to you and the more likely she is to return to you. If you tank your value now by getting all emo weepy and dragging shit out and getting all needy etc, she’s more likely to stay out there playing the field longer because you make yourself a low-value option to return to.

The most important thing in these situations is to preserve your high-value in her mind when you remove yourself from her life. And most guys FAIL hardcore at that and actively TANK their value till the girl would rather go on a bunch of lame Tinder dates with chodes than answer his gay “I miss you :(” txts and take him back lol

And of course: GFTOW! πŸ˜‰

Blue Pill Frame

Original Link

via Rational Male

on July 11th, 2016 at 5:54 pm
Original Link

“why end anything?”

More for impact than anything. What they’re going to do is let things slowly die off…she’s not going to lose her urge for a taste of Provider until she GETS it and realizes it tastes shitty, and he’s (ideally) not going to budge on his position, so he’s in for a lot of drama and shit and since he’s clearly caught full on feels he’s going to start fucking up and sabotaging his value as she looks for a branch and then can comfortably swing to a branch while his value is tanked so her new branch looks even better and she never has a real urge to come back to him.

If he were further along in his frame/skillset/success to where he could hold his value through her ultimatums and the drama this situation normally brings (crying about how it hurts to be with him knowing it won’t go anywhere because he doesn’t love her enough etc etc), and just stay rock solid then ya, stay in there and just hold frame. But he’s clearly not going to be able to do that given his post.

Ending it FIRST (not in a butthurt way but just in an “I want you to be happy you should find a guy who can give you that marriage you want, let’s take a break for a few months we can both focus on other things” type shit but worded less gay) gets him out of there before he can sabotage his value to her, which increases his odds of her coming back to him (and coming back sooner rather than later), while simultaneously pulling the rug out from under her before she has a monkey branch lined up to comfortably swing to.

It’s like you complain about your soup not having bread with it and the Soup Nazi goes “NO SOUP FOR YOU.” and takes the bag away before you know wtf just happened. You didn’t not WANT the soup at ALL, you just weren’t 100% satisfied, but because the WHOLE FUCKING THING has been yanked from you the second you complained, you regret complaining and that soup has WAY more value than it would if you got that soup and took it home and it got cold and as you ate it it started tasting worse and worse until finally you just left half the bowl because it was so distasteful to you.