via Rational Male
“2) girls walking towards me when I’m headed the other direction.”
“I did Yad stops for a week here in Local and those were universally rejected–it’s just way too confrontational for this culture.”
The jist of those videos is walk with her until you can display enough value to get her to stop. I would go indirect, play up needing help like asking for directions, to avoid the confrontational stuff, and as they’re explaining start dropping in teases about their answers (“you’re sending me down that dark alleyway?? I’ll need you to be my bodyguard” etc), or if you want to go direct just throw in a “I don’t really need to know, I just thought you were cute and wanted to talk to you”
The main thing though is that you don’t have to stop them IMMEDIATELY Yad style…go indirect and/or walk with them and demonstrate some value and THEN stop moving and they should stop with you to continue the interaction.
Also brush up on your first 60 seconds…you’re going to want to display as much value in as short a time window as possible and have a specific time bridge planned out (instadate or solid number close with specific plans). Paul Janka’s “move trailer” concept applies, or Todd yelling at you here:
Mystery Method style you’ll want to open, DHV, tease, soon as you get her giggling qualify her on something besides her looks so she feels special and feels like that thing she just did or you just noticed about her is what made you WANT her number, then time bridge close with SPECIFIC plans (for a day2 within the next 48 hours, ideally later that day). Instadate is best if she’s available for it though, obviously lol
Good luck, props for finding opportunities wherever you can!
“Sweet Jesus if it wasn’t the most effemenite panty waist collection of dolts ever. I am sure I missed some sporto types who may well have been in class or working out at the gym but 50% of the remaining so called men.”
I think a lot of the Manosphere doesn’t spend much time outside of their red pill collection of buddies or their peers at work or their kids and their little handful of friends etc and don’t really get how bad it’s gotten out there. So they occasionally pay attention in public or are put in a situation around these guys and are like “holy shit what happened” because they assumed things were still pretty much the same as when they were kids…but they assume that this is still a small sample size and that this stuff is mostly still contained to “gender studies” classes etc (ie – if you aren’t specifically signing up to learn about it, you don’t really get influenced by it) and don’t realize it’s spilled out into the general culture.
But these guys you describe are the type of guys I see at the bar every single week. This is the selection of “men” university girls have to choose from these days lol This is what they grow up around, in this FI-based social media culture. That’s why us older guys with game are slaying it out there…compared to THESE guys we are like Clint Eastwood levels of alpha badass manliness, when Clint Eastwood would consider us just as un-manly nancy-boys as we consider these guys lol
“Man oh man though, if you are actually in that environment, as an RP guy, it must be like shooting sleeping fish in a barrel when it comes to closing with chicks.”
Why do you think I’m still sarging the kiddie bars😉 Being in your 30s is a DHV to them now. I know girls in their early 20s who’s Tinder search filter is guys 30+, they don’t even look at guys in their 20s because from their experience those guys will mostly be like these guys (even if they LOOK better/alpha, their internals will be all fucked up FI-based chode shit most of the time).
“However, you can’t learn the correct lessons to teach without going out and hitting the field. Like, you can’t just sit here and read TRM and then dust off your hands and go”all right, time to repeat this stuff to little Jimmy.””
This. The reason Blaximus struggles with teaching young guys while I don’t is because I can understand what those guys are going through. I went through the process they’re going through so I know how they feel at various stages and how to relate to them. VS an OMG who just brags about how he never had any problems with it and talks down to them and expects them to have the same experiences he had growing up because he refuses to accept that the world has changed and those guys might be dealing with different factors, and then is surprised they don’t listen to his brilliant wisdom and blames THEM instead of his approach for that lol
You have to understand what these guys are going through to pace their reality and connect with them and lead them to the truth, and they have to gather reference experiences themselves to believe shit because the vast majority of society is lying to them 24/7, including half the OMGs they meet (none of the OMGs here of course) who talk a big game but turn out to be full of shit.
“I believe everyone who starts PUA should also start going to the gym. Not for the muscles, not for the strength, but just for the reference experience of how willpower can change your life.”
I don’t disagree with this (mastering any hobby in general that requires dedication would do similar things, but it’s good to take care of your health and all so there’s extra benefit to working out), but the only reason I would stagger the gym stuff to later on is to avoid newbies building assosciations with “I’m getting success and was taught that looks mater by the FI, and my looks are improving, so my success must be because of my looks” ’cause that’ll fuck them up if they don’t have proper guidance to help them see how what they said/did is what caused attraction instead of their looks…with proper guidance, sure hit the gym, but if they’re doing it all solo they’re a lot more likely to solidify their FI-conditoning that looks matter. That won’t bite them in the ass right away, they’ll have a blast, but down the road when they lose their looks or when they’re around other guys as good or better looking than them etc they’ll be more likely to have internal problems.
I’d rather they learned to get attraction for a year or two so they can see “oh, I can do this even looking how I looked back when I thought I wasn’t good looking enough” and THEN worked on their looks so that they understand their looks don’t really matter. Like if I decide to get jacked this year, I have TONS of experience getting attraction being chubby so I’m not going to have a bunch of self-esteem tied to my looks ’cause I focused on game first and saw over and over that the looks thing is just FI-conditioning.
Either way though, I’d rather a guy go out and hit the gym and risk the assosciation VS not go out at all, ’cause we can always send him out in baggy clothes down the road to try to unwire bad assosciations lol
“The longshot isn’t that you could learn how to be much better. The longshot is whether you have what it takes to just go out in the field over and over and subject yourself to what it gives you — nothing but harsh truth.”
This, really. Most guys don’t quit because they aren’t getting results fast enough, they quit because they can’t handle the ego-destruction the field shoves in their face and don’t want to go out and risk bad feels and want to retreat back to their comfort zone bubble of excuses and good feels lol
“You’re looking at between half a year to a year before you get any actual success. You’re looking at another year probably before you have a reliable skill set that allows you to more or less consistently pull the hotties. And probably another year before you start being able to pull off hero moves.”
We used to promote this all as a YEARS-long journey by default. Like the marketing these days especially pushes the “fix yourself in a weekend” stuff because it gets people to fill seats at bootcamps, but on bootcamps guys are always lectured that this shit is a long-term process, they might get some results in a weekend from being pumped into a good state but this is something they’re going to have to work on on their own after bootcamp and keep going out on their own and that it’s going to be a part of their life from now on.
“Once you adjust for the guy’s looks, most dudes in the game are just using them as a crutch or using FAG. Sorry.”
“And honestly, normies being “normies” almost never get hotties for commitment free short-term sex. That’s borderline nonsense.”
Blunt as fuck, but I can’t reeeeeeeally disagree for the most part lol
This is why I always point out that ya looks will get you some free gimme iois but 99% of the time it’ll be from 7s at best (but more often it’s <7s), the 8+s usually already HAVE jacked/rich/etc guys in their social circles and are too busy interacting with them to notice you and run over to you to squeeze your bicep like the drunk 6 will.
A lot of guys spark attraction through other means by accident (or just not understanding what they're doing, like a Natural) and then in A2 the girl gives them an ioi related to their body and they go "SEE I KNEW IT!! It's LOOKS that matter!! This girl felt my bicep and is turned on! …after I got her giggling by confidently dominantly teasing her about her outfit after an alpha guy I'm good buddies with introduced us in our social circle after she watched me be preselected making my ex over there laugh. It was MY BICEPS that did it!!!!" lol
"But about half way through a couple of girls complain that no one approaches in real life, it’s all virtual. He riffs on that than they agree. Tiny confirmation of YaReally observations from his club scene."
lol all guys have to do to see what I'm saying is go out to the kiddie bars and interact with a bunch of them regularly instead of relying on how things were back in their day or their theories. I just report trends that are happening infield. If things were going the other direction I'd report that too, and frankly I'd be WAY happier to report that. But that's not what's happening out there. And logically there's no reason to assume the trend will reverse instead of get worse as technology advances exponentially.
"They say they want to marry, but it’s mostly “someday” which means at age 29.99."
This. If they DO say they want to get married, it's waaaaaay far off in their mind. They can't conceptualize being in their 30s and that sounds "old" to them so 29.99 is a good representation of what they picture lol As they get closer to 29 it becomes 29.999999999 lol As they pass 30 it becomes 34.9999999 etc
LTRs/boyfriends hold girls back from "success" ("The Village"'s version of success that's being conditioned into them when you're not around) and they have no idea the wall will come (because why WOULD they, they got 100 Tinder matches this weekend, the wall to them means they're going to only have 50 Tinder matches in a weekend oh no lol) so they think they'll be able to have it all.
In some communities there are probably still girls that dream of being married by 23 but 1) we'll have to give those relationships a solid 10 years to see how they actually pan out and 2) those aren't communities the average guy is in, and 3) those girls aren't necessarily even quality girls in other categories despite what their daddy's will say lol
"P-p-p-p-pedestalization. Lol, it will never, ever end."
lol any guy who pretends he wouldn't rather fuck a hottie over a fatty to bang is full of shit (or has a fatty fetish). But wanting to fuck hotties doesn't mean you have to treat them like they're on pedestals.
Julien talks about this all the time these days but that short Tyler clip is a good fast summary of it and an exercise for guys to try.
@Pellaeon @Hank Holiday @Trent Lane
Build momentum. If bartenders/waitresses (remember that they're PAID to be social/chatty with you) are too daunting, start with just asking people on the street for the time, then try asking them for directions to the venue, etc
(skip to 1:45 in this video, I'm not a fan of the first half of this video's mindset, only certain types of guys respond well to that style of self-talk lol, but the 1:45+ stuff is gold for everyone):
Baby step it and focus on taking action/executing over results…ie – asking someone where the bathroom is is the win, the fact that you took action and asked, REGARDLESS of what they said. Even if they SNEERED at you and turned their back and said "don't talk to me you creep!!" (what your brain thinks will happen 'cause it wants you to stay in your comfort zone lol), that doesn't matter, that's the RESULT, your goal at the start is to focus on the fact that you took right ACTION.
Remember there's no rush to any of this, no timeline, no one is judging you or expecting you to be slaying it left and right from day one. If you're in your 20s or even your 30s you have like 20 years to improve at this lol Your competition isn't any of us or Tyler or naturals or your buddies, your only competition is "yourself, 6 months ago". If you're doing more than you did 6 months ago, then you're making progress. If 6 months ago you were sitting in your computer room stuffing your face and surfing the net but now you're going out to bars even if you don't say a single word to anyone and just go home bummed out, that's still more action toward your goal than you were taking 6 months ago. That's progress. If 6 months from now all you're doing is asking girls where the bathroom is at those venues, cool. It's not a LOT of progress, but it's still progress. And the more you get used to it and the more fun you learn to have doing it and the more positive (or at least "not negative" reference experiences you slowly gather), the more you'll enjoy going out and the faster you'll make progress because you'll KNOW you can make that hot bartender chick laugh with that thing you always say to them etc
Try going out to a venue before it's too packed and make it your goal to ask ONE person where the bathroom is, you've got the entire night to manage to do it, it can even be a fat/ugly girl or a dude, and if you accomplish that, celebrate and feel free to go home whenever you want after that lol but pat yourself on the back about it and celebrate it in your mind and the next night try to do it again but this time it has to be a girl, regardless of how she looks. You might NOT do it and you'll be like "fuck I can't even ask a fatty where the bathroom is in 4 hours that I'm out?! I'm so pathetic ahhhh!!!" but don't sweat it, you're doing something you've never really done before and it takes time to get used to it and any PUA would give you props just for going out at ALL because that's more than most guys will ever do to fix their social/sex lives. Just brush it off and head out the next night and try again. When you manage to ask a girl where the bathroom is, you can increase the difficulty from there.
And if it helps even *I* do this kind of stuff myself. Lots of us do. My only real goal when I go out is to open at least 3 people even if it's just asking directions or it's dudes or it's with something totally indirect etc Because I know that once I prove to my brain that opening strangers won't be the horrible nightmare it assumes it'll be, it'll unlock and normalize the idea of socializing (after spending all day/week not socializing) and I'll feel less anxiety about socializing and can then step up my goals for the night. Sometimes if I'm out solo so I don't have a wingman to socialize with, and I find I'm choking hard and getting stuck inside my head and can't open anything, I'll just go to a different area of that venue or a different venue entirely…each new environment you enter is a chance to "reset" mentally and try again ("all those bad feelings I had were at that LAST place, THIS place could be different"). When I was starting out I would go to like 8 different venues in a night some nights lol Now I can usually just move to a different part of the venue and that can be enough.
Very few people except for legitimate natural extroverts (very rare, lots of extroverts rely on crutches (situational confidence, social circles, alcohol, etc)) can go out to a venue after a day of working/studying/whatever (logical mindset stuff that doesn't involve much if any social interaction) and just start chatting up strangers and be amazing on their first approach. 99.9999% of people use alcohol to try to shut off all the approach anxiety they naturally feel. You're not some introverted awkward weirdo, you're just a normal dude feeling normal approach anxiety, no big deal you'll overcome it in time lol
"That’s where you get to how night clubs are sooooooo much better for learning. You’ll see as many pretty girls in a couple seconds as I see in a couple months lol."
This is the main reason we recommend night clubs. There are other pros/cons but when you're starting out you just need a shitload of reference experience in as short a time as possible, and walking around for 30 min to find a girl to open sucks. In a nightclub you can open, get blown out, and just turn around and open the next girl 1 second later. You can rack up a ton of social experience fast.
"I’d bet my internet connection their fathers are totally clueless about their daughters real life activities. If asked , they’d say what many guys here already have -their special baby girl would NEVER suck some jagoffs dick behind her mans back, or do anything similarly immoral in the name of hypergamy."
lol prepare to get shit on. Every dad in the manosphere knows everything that goes on in their daughter's lives 24/7. And all the girls we've all been with that do fucked up shit run and tell their dads about it immediately. Girls are incapable of keeping anything secret from their dad. Just like when the bully at school finally gets caught and his mom talks about how he could never do something like that, not HER boy, and denies that's him in the video lol
"big muscle dude sees hotties, joins. we look at each other as they blab on and on about this fucking business shit. no fun at all. no fucking chance to even open without interrupting as zero eye contact or iois"
hmmm, I don't get it…this other guy was jacked and you are alpha mcalphadawg with your daily $500 garden sprout breakfast or whatever you tried to insult me with lol, why didn't they instantly stop talking to eachother and feel his biceps and try to fuck you guys??
@fleezer @hank holiday
"A PUA totally couldn’t do something like befriend her husband, chat up everyone and bring value to everyone so everybody likes the pua and pats him on the back and wants to hang out with him and then he uses some of the other guys there to distract the husbands while he went off with the wife"
This lol Optimal plan of action would be to engage the jacked dude in a more interesting/expressive conversation than the girls instead of waiting for them to leave you an opening while you sit there being James Bond (aka be pro-active). Probably bring the husbands into the conversation and then the kids, or vice-versa. Basically win everyone over and DHV enough to ping the girls' radars.
But most guys who focus big on their super masculine badass alpha energy are the guys who just sit back and try to be James Bond and wait for girls to open them or give them an easy open while they plan their next workout or garden sprout meal lol
Not that a PUA will get the girl in every situation, but "as zero eye contact or iois" tells me you were waiting for those things (aka passive game, aka what most guys do).
@hank holiday @softek
"and in every which way looks like the notebook of a serial killer lol"
lol I have a buddy who keeps full out serial killer looking pickup journals. It's the funniest shit to me and we joke about if a girl or the police ever discovered them. He'll even cut out his type of girls' pics from magazines and tape them in there lol It's terrifying but it helps him 'cause he's kind of a scatterbrain type and the physical writing in a journal (VS typing in a digital journal) helps him focus and solidify his thoughts.
Whatever works lol
"We must somehow signal to potential sons-in-law that (a) our daughters are virgins and will remain so until marriage, (b) they will never cheat, divorce, or disobey their husbands for any reason (not even for “abuse”, because that will be taken to mean “anything that makes her feel bad”), and (c) they now and forever reject all cultural influences to the contrary."
lol this is great in theory. But if I can flip open Tinder or hit the bar and find a handful of <25yo girls who will happily fuck me on the first or second date, and you can't guarantee that your daughters won't "cheat, divorce, or disobey their husbands for any reason" because that's ridiculous and delusional, and you can't guarantee they'll now and forever reject all cultural influences to the contrary because that's impossible, and the risk for us is still lose half our shit and lose our kids etc…why would we bother with your daughters? THEY have a time limit (the wall), WE aren't in a rush to settle down lol
The consequences are too high to take the risk. And any guy marrying a girl without fucking her first to find out if they're even sexually compatible (maybe your daughter is a shitty lay lol or maybe they don't have the same tastes in bed etc) would be retarded or low-value/desperate to begin with (ie – not a high-value guy that's going to keep her attracted).
"hank, do you realize how far you have come in just this year? Just since last summer? Props, man."
“That’s not what the field shows, so you are old and delusional and out of touch with the all encompassing 2016 tinder culture.”
Remember, YOU’RE the one that cries about the “snark” around here.
We’ve said repeatedly ever since the marriage debate that there are religious/UMC clique communities where the successful marriage/kids life may be possible which is exactly what EhIntellect is describing. But this is not the community that the vast 90% of men out there live in and as religion is further tossed aside these communities will continue to become less and less common.
“Now enjoy this Tyler/Julien/RSD video……”
Lemme see if I can find one for you on not getting butthurt every time people disagree with you lol
@pua @hank @culum @walawala @forge @paelleon etc
For the guys sarging this weekend:
Great infield of Tyler showing how you, as a scrubby nobody PUA with nothing to rely on but your pickup skills, can get the girls that other guys buy bottle/VIP service and shit to get. He shows how to handle those dudes and the 4 main reactions you’ll run into and strategies to use in those situations.
For the alpha brahs and guys around the bottle scene like Rollo, Blaximus, etc, this is how scrubby idiots like me “take girls from richer better-looking more jacked etc” guys which sounds so mythical and impossible until you see how easy it is…ideally you see how easy it is by just TRYING it a bunch till you can do it, but here’s some infield to show how no, every guy who’s girls you talk to WON’T punch your lights out and all that other fear-mongering shit guys who don’t do this tell other guys will happen lol MOST guys are generally cool dudes with their own insecurities and shit and respect another guy who’s bringing value and is a cool fun guy.
You can see the student in the first infield at the start has the owner of the table not approving of him at first till Tyler calibrates for him and smooths it out by setting a “sorry, he’s not from around here, I’m trying to teach him the bro code” frame and pacing the guy’s reality (about living in LA) and then the guy lights right up happy to explain the “man code” to the student and then becomes a wingman letting him have access to the table so now he can bring girls from around the club there if he wants.
And note how Tyler is very aware of value-exchanges and has the student bring more girls to the table guy, exchanging “nightlife currency” (aka pussy lol) with him and now that guy who hasn’t paid fuck all, has full access to that guy’s expensive table, plus his approval/permission to mack the girls in his group, and girls just see a guy who “must be” as high-value as the other guy since he has his approval. Even if that guy is wearing an old t-shirt, is broke, and is out of shape…no one cares about that stuff, they care about the value you demonstrate.
And also note that none of this is PASSIVE. This is PRO-ACTIVE. If this newbie tried to stand around relying on his looks, money, etc to have girls just ditch their table and come feel their biceps, they’d be virgins forever lol But with game, whatever advantages the other guys have don’t matter because pro-active game levels the playing field. It doesn’t matter if those girls think some guy in the corner with a 6-pack is hotter than you, if that guy doesn’t approach them and you DO and YOU give them emotional spikes, that guy and all the mental masturbation about whether looks gives you a 0.0001% advantage or a 0.0002% advantage, is made irrelevant lol
Now the student is lame ’cause he’s a newbie, so he doesn’t really even know what to DO with the access Tyler helped him learn how to get, but if a guy doing this can manage to come off 0.00001% COOLER than that table guy, just 0.00001% less reactive etc in front of the girls (which isn’t hard to do), guess what happens in terms of attraction, social proof, preselection (to the rest of the VIP booths and the girls in the club in general), networking, and a bunch of other shit lol
You don’t need to be rich to do any of this shit. You just need to understand social dynamics and be smart and learn to calibrate. You won’t learn how to do it by reading online on a Fri/Sat night, go out to some higher-end venues where they do bottles and try befriending some dudes with bottle/VIP service and test out what Tyler’s explaining.
Now combine what Tyler’s explaining there, with what Julien is explaining here:
And imagine how different your nights would look compared to hitting a dive pub and just trying to hunt out nice easy solo girls standing around the venue.
Any guy reading this has the tools in him to do this shit every night out if he wants to. Tyler’s giving away the keys to the kingdom laying it all out step by step right there for free for anyone to learn and take infield and apply.
It’s Friday night, you can try it out tonight if get out of your computer chair and go out. Have fun 😉
(also for anyone wondering how Tyler can talk to the students without the girls noticing, Tyler has a mic so his voice comes out clear (I THINK they have fancy sound-cancelling mics that buffer out crazy loud bass etc so the voices can be heard better but not sure) but in the actual club Tyler is purposely speaking in a tonality/level that he knows girls don’t pay attention to (basically talking like a chode lol) and when he’s creepin up behind them (lol) he stays out of the line of vision of the girls hiding behind the student’s head etc, and if the student is properly engaging the girls then the girls’ RAS is focused on the student so that helps make Tyler “invisible”…and the student is paying attention for Tyler’s instructions so he hears what Tyler is saying…it’s basically a big combination of psychological tricks to stay off the girls’ RAS)
“Blog PSA: I am hereby pulling all RSD material from TRM as of now. I have come into some very reliable information that the spamming of this blog and the legitimacy I’ve built over several years is intentional.”
wtf are you talking about? Did you watch that video? He’s literally showing how to go into high-end venues (like the type you run your promos at) and how to befriend (or compete with) the bottle service/VIP table dudes and take their girls, with crystal clear infield footage (which we would have KILLED for back in the early 2000s) showing EXACTLY how he does it.
How many discussions have we had about looks/money/status mattering and how many discussions have we had about how AMOG’ing and status and how money gives you access to girls etc? How many times have I been accused of being full of shit around here when I say PUAs learn to go take girls from these rich better-looking high-value dudes. How many Red Pill observations of how the world, human psychology, social dynamics, Attraction, etc work does this shit confirm and demonstrate to support that what I’ve been saying for fucking YEARS *ISN’T* bullshit?
That video was directly showing how to get around your looks/money matter idea, showing a thing that we do all the time infield, and showing how even a random nobody newbie can circumvent the looks/money shit with that infield.
That’s WHY I tagged your name in it, because I was hoping you might offer some “oh, you know what, now that I see the infield of it in action, that DOES look like something that would work in the bottle model events I run. I’ve actually seen that kind of thing, but it doesn’t look like a cold approach. There are some interesting things we could discuss about how status and high-value and money and Attraction work.”
And you just delete that shit as spam?? And say you have some cryptic information that I’m trying to delegitimize your site?? With what, proof that some of your ideas might need some readjustment or rethinking??
“but I will no longer allow TRM to service RSD videos or links as a proxy for RSD’s advertising.”
These are FREE videos with a shitload of useful information in them. I’ve repeatedly told guys that they should never pay for pickup shit and encouraged guys to grab their products for free (torrent that shit). If ANY other company was putting out video with the quality level that RSD does I would happily link their videos isntead, but we have Krauser’s “you look like a bunny rabbit also all jews should die” droning on videos, we have a jacked Good Looking Loser that by default makes guys think “I gotta be jacked to get the results he gets”, we have a bunch of potato-camera 240p quality shitty infield from random guys where you can’t even hear or see what’s going on VS RSD’s CRYSTAL-CLEAR infield footage that would have been like a goddamn MIRACLE to have back in the early 2000s…we would have paid a fuckton just to get a GLIMPSE of this shit, and these guys are putting this stuff up for free, breaking it down infield, in a format where you can just click past the “hey also buy our bootcamps” parts.
I even fucking TIME-STAMP around the advertisements and tell guys which parts of the video are specifically relevant to them and to skip the rest of the video or skip the advertisement at the start etc (I didn’t on this last one because it.
That video I linked didn’t even *HAVE* an advertisement for a bootcamp or anything, the entire 20 min vid was Tyler explaining different concepts and showing infield demonstrating those concepts.
On top of it the RSD guys are even promoting your book now lol Just because they think it has good content in it. Fucking hilarious.
Tyler’s networking like a motherfucker to build his empire (he’s talked about planning to expand into other areas/channels for years), that’s why he’s cross-promoting with all the Brand Carter, Big Mike, Elliot Hulse, etc dudes and tapping into their audience and they’re tapping into his. That’s just building a business…ironically the Manosphere promotes entrepreneurship and living off the grid and building your own business, but god forbid someone actually does it right instead of the way the Manosphere does it with Krauser ranting racist shit all over his Twitter, Roosh trolling feminists, and you staying underground.
“YaReally, Scray and anyone else are still welcome to post here and discuss whatever they wish”
Deleting their videos just means that I have to spend even MORE of my spare time typing out exactly what they would have said in a FREE video I could’ve just linked and said “watch from 5:00 – 10:53”, now I have to type out 20 paragraphs of what would be said in that video. I don’t make money from my writing here and writing here cuts into my actual career-work time, I just write a shitload because I LIKE helping guys and the old community was ABOUT helping eachother, that’s how we all got good at this shit. But if you’re gonna force me to write out shitloads of text to get around your paranoid rules, I gotta do a realistic cost/benefit of my free time on that.
“Those RSD vids are very helpful to guys like me, since while scray and yareally and forge and others can describe concepts for me, it isn’t quite the same as actually seeing someone doing it real time.”
This. Fucking amazing. If you guys had any idea how few resources we had back in the early 2000s…I used to watch that fucking Future AMOG in Leicester Square video on loop, full-screened trying to make out what each giant pixel was. We were listening to the shittiest audio recordings in the fucking world trying to decipher what guys were saying or tonality and we had to GUESS at what girls reactions were and hit the field a shitload with NO IDEA what it was supposed to even LOOK like when we tried to apply shit.
Now these guys FROM that community fix that, and give a shitload of CRYSTAL-CLEAR HD video with great lighting and audio away for *FREE* and I can’t even link that shit??
If I was linking bootcamp advertisements like “Hey everyone go sign up for the Tyler bootcamp!! Look at this advertisement for it and how much you need a bootcamp”, then hey, cool, but I’m gonna have to manually explain in 50 pages why a guy like hank or Culum or Forge or walawala etc can walk into one of Rollo’s bottle model events and just GET the “perfect 10s” he hires and throw out half the limiting beliefs the Manosphere has, instead of just linking a short little video showing DIRECT beautifullly shot infield demonstrating it???
“Guys on here can hear mention of RSD, maybe a few buy their products.”
I always always always tell guys to get their products without paying (but I don’t actively say “TORRENT THAT SHIT FOR FREE” because I don’t want Rollo’s to promote piracy on Rollo’s site), I NEVER say buy an RSD product and I ALWAYS link AROUND their advertisements and say “skip to this part, then skip to this part”.
“Lol, the irony is since Yareally always linked the relevant vids”
Enjoy sifting through 2000 RSD videos to try to find content directly relevant to your sticking points everyone, since I can’t just link you directly to the one that would help you solve your shit and help guys AVOID ending up being suicide cases Rollo has to deal with 10 years from now.
“My interpretation of your explanation is that by having those links here, it attracts the spammer bots and potentially other similar attacks to the site.”
I’m just assuming that this is another “YAREALLY IS HIRED BY RSD TO PROMOTE THEM” accusation. I WISH I made money from linking them then I wouldn’t have to bust my ass at my career life lol I guess in an industry where everyone is wrapping their content up to sell in eBooks, it’s hard for guys to understand that some people just legitimately want to help other men out. They think PUA was an industry from day one, they weren’t back on the old Fast Seduction forums seeing thousands of dudes helping eachother out for free and they didn’t see the industry go from charging NOTHING for the information to building the industry. Maybe it’s a projection thing like “well I’M using this to make money, so other guys must be too”.
Whatever the reason, it’s bullshit. I’m just a guy who links shit that helps guys ’cause other guys helped me back in the old community and RSD is the main company that’s stepped up and put out USEFUL content (for FREE).
“I started watching their stuff when Rollo had that post about that man in demand conference where some dude that presented made a big deal about fashion and YaReally dropped in and proved that looks don’t matter. Life changing shit for me. No joke. ”
I guess The Brand is more important than the truth.
“Tyler hit on this ridiculously hot chick that was about to leave in a cab, and he pulled her out and within 20 seconds she jumped into his arms and wanted to fuck him. I was like Whoa, there is something far deeper going on here than money, looks or some pickup lines. That’s an important realization.”
I could link that video in an instant for you just from the first half of that description. Not because I’m a paid RSD shill but because on my 10 years of doing this shit I watched that video a thousand fucking times because we WISHED we had that kind of footage to learn from back when I started out and I actually get how valuable it is to SEE that in action.
I think the thing you should actually be concerend about is that you’ve entered a stage in your thought process where you consider free useful content that helps guys and might occasionally show INFIELD footage suggesting you need to rethink or rework some of your ideas, to be “undermining” your site/brand. What’s next, Rational-Masculinity to go next to Roosh’s Neo-Masculinity?
You can delete this if you want, I’m sure you will, I don’t even care lol fuck all of this. I was so psyched to share that video last night, I can’t believe he even got that shit on camera that’s a fucking miracle. Fuck the Manosphere and its hugbox mentality lol
Enjoy your Saturday night everyone. Go out, or DON’T. Stay in instead, otherwise you might be exposed to things that don’t align with the hugbox and be banished from it lol
““I can’t believe he even got that shit on camera that’s a fucking miracle.”
Should’ve clarified: it’s not the act of doing it on camera that’s a miracle, since we do this kind of thing lots. It’s the fact that he got beautiful clear footage of a newbie bootcamp student with NO idea how to do it, to do it, showing him fucking up and getting a hostile reaction from the table guy, and then following Tyler’s EXACT instructions fixing it and then GETTING the predictable result that we keep SAYING anyone here can get, and seeing that newbie’s progress, PLUS on the same bootcamp in the same venue, footage of another newbie sitting down at one of those guys tables to hit on the girls with the guy (that would intimidate most newbies from even approaching the girls) giving zero fucks (JUST LIKE WE SAY OFTEN HAPPENS), etc
Like capturing that all in such perfect quality and being able to show the different types of reception/recovery involved in this move, and seeing a newbie LEARNING in real-time IN the video, all in hidden-cam (VS the girls seeing it’s there affecting their reactions like lots of other company’s infield is) crystal-clear HD with perfect audio and lighting etc…
…ya, I consider that a fucking miracle. I can go out and record myself doing similar shit with my shaky potato phone and you can try to make out what I’m saying through the thumping music and what I’m doing through the shitty lighting because I don’t have an expensive camera with quality low-lightnight-vision features, and all you’ll see is a guy who talks to some other guys like he knows them.
Seeing a newbie go through that and Tyler giving the same student the step by step in good quality and in-between footage explaining exactly how and why it works and how to handle the various situations that come up when you do this etc
Fuck it, that’s just spam. Nothing we can learn about any Red Pill topics on this site from seeing THAT. No lessons about Hypergamy, looks/status, internal entitlement/confidence, etc to be learned there. Nope, delete that shit, it’ll undermine the Brand!! Now go out and make sure you buy a bunch of brightly colored blazers and $300 shoes because that’s how it REALLY works guise.
I’d love to link some good hidden-cam high-quality perfect audio/lighting/etc infield from Rollo of him tearing up his bottle model events to discuss status/Hypergamy/looks/etc and for guys to learn from (undercover so he has the same low-status by default like the newbie in that video, you know, the one that any guy watching can relate to and be inspired by seeing him succeed in that clip) but until Rollo’s infield product comes out, I have to make do with what’s available and what’s available is a pretty fucking useful resource that I actively tell guys NOT to pay for.
But hey fuck me and fuck RSD. Really fuck all the footage I link by anyone, better not link those Liam McRae or Gambler vids on laser eye-contact, those guys sell products.
Better not link that video of a Valentino having an AMOG battle with a better looking guy and the girl actively choosing him over that guy since he sells products.
Better not link that Future Leicester Square AMOG video where guys can see what spiking a girl’s Buying Temperature look like and how taking over their RAS makes them IGNORE better-looking more traditionally alpha/natural AMOGs for the person giving them more stimulus. Nothing to learn from THAT!
Better not link any Keys to the VIP videos, they were commercial products aired on television, wouldn’t want to promote anything, there’s nothing we can learn from hidden infield camera footage of jacked rich AMOGs getting blown out and fucking up losing attraction from girls and scrawny little dudes getting attraction (and vice-versa, and WHY those things happen). Nothing that anyone could apply to taking their LTR out to a social event or helping guys have better internal mindsets about orbiters/AMOGs etc going for their LTR.
And I sure as shit better not link any Mystery Method, the ultimate KINGPIN of commercialization, my god. Imagine the damage it would do if guys saw Mystery explaining how the looks/money thing doesn’t matter and that you can just socialize your way into high-value in the moment and trigger girls’ Hypergamy and force people to question “DO looks matter then?” or “but could a total newbie do that or do you have to be a pro like Tyler and Mystery?” (you know, like the newbie in that video that does it via Tyler’s instructions, showing that ANYONE can do this shit, you don’t need to be 10 years in or do it to the level Tyler does it, any of you can throw on a t-shirt and go blow Rollo’s mind at his bottle model events)
Better not link any Krauser daygame infield, or wait, is that okay because Krauser is in the Manosphere? Just want to make sure I don’t break the rules and all, with all my spamming useless shit. Lemme know when the Rollo Infield product comes out so I can link safe videos!
“Rollo is not ignorant of brand building.”
Clearly, that’s why the RSD videos have to be deleted. I just didn’t think brand building was his primary purpose of this place after how much he made fun of Roosh and MMSL for it.
“Yep, that’s about what I expected would be your reaction”
I’m accused of being a shill or member of RSD and accused of purposely trying to undermine your site by you yourself, useful content I’ve spent hours writing up for guys has been deleted/fucked up, and for some reason I’m not reacting rainbows and sunshine about that. Shocker.
“If you or “Tyler” want to work out some cobranding arrangement with TRM you can both contact me directly, but there’s no fucking gravy training going on here anymore.”
Dude I don’t fucking KNOW Tyler. I would be amazed if he even knows the name “YaReally” because he has no reason to waste his time surfing the Manosphere. You have entered full fucking paranoia mode at this point. I have nothing to do with RSD, they just put out a shitload of legitimately good content because guys like you don’t go infield and record this shit for people to see and learn from.
“Look I like your input, and I think it provides a good balance of practical to what I go into, ”
Don’t bullshit me dude. It’s pretty clear now what you actually think of my input. At least own up to it like a red pill alpha male guru and all.
“I’ve always said that, and if you actually followed anyone else in the PUA sphere in addition to RSD I might have more reason to think you’re genuine”
I’ve linked a fuckload of other companies shit here over the years. RSD just puts out a dominant amount of quality content. You show me the Krauser video where he talks his way into the VIP table section at a nightclub and I’ll be happy to post that (and I even LINK Krauser videos). You show me the Roosh, London Daygame, etc guys breaking down concepts as concise as Tyler and I’ll be happy to post that. You put out your own infield demonstrating shit and I’ll be happy to post that.
The fact that YOU ignore when I link Gambler, Krauser, Cupid Shmupid, Keys to the VIP, Simple Pickup, Liam McRae, James Marshall, Juggler, Paul Janka (I linked his shit the other day to someone), Mystery, etc etc etc and that YOU probably lump guys like Valentino/Alexander in with RSD because they’re copping the RSD style and you probably don’t know that they’re separate companies and Alex hates Tyler now etc but hey it all looks the same to you I’m sure, doesn’t mean I don’t “actually follow anyone else in the PUA sphere”.
“but I know RSD is marketeering and TRM has a reputation that Owen’s attracted to. I’m not going to reveal my sources, but I will no longer allow this cobranding to go on.”
lolololololol like Tyler gives a shit about the Manosphere. You guys have so little views compared to PUAs. You don’t even have a YouTube channel. I mean maybe he DOES want to approach your audience now that you have 5 years of content and reputation. But I was reading you from day one and I’ve been posting in the Manosphere since like 2011 (can’t remember lol) You think Tyler was trying to tap into Heartiste’s “black people should die and the jews control everything” audience?? That he played the long-con game sending me out to infiltrate the Manosphere for him all to capitalize on your success someday??
“YaReally, in the blog game, the blog owners own the frame. If they change on a dime, we can’t do anything about it other than go to wordpress”
I agree completely. Like I say I just didn’t realize that the brand was the priority here. When I found Rollo’s first articles I was like “wow, this is a guy who gets a lot of this shit and he writes really well, I’m bookmarking this shit”. I didn’t realize that somewhere along the way getting the actual truth of how this stuff works became second priority to maintaining a brand and giving a shit about who’s linking your work and where and deleting content for dem ad revenue bucks is king. Looks like the exact same shit Roosh, MMSL, etc do. Just didn’t expect that from “I have my own businesses I don’t need any money from this I just do this from the good of my heart” Rollo of all people.
“Get on it man. You’ve built a brand whether you meant to or not. It needs it’s own home.”
I don’t want a brand or to run a home, that’s why I post in comment sections. Because this is 100% a time-sink for me. I get a bit of benefit in that I get to refresh game concepts for myself when I write about them and get a better idea of how to express my ideas more clearly etc to help my buddies out in real life, and this is a fun hobby for me, but I don’t want to build a brand or run an empire. When I started out I was going to just make random usernames every time I posted because I didn’t want people to base their opinion of my content on my reputation, just take the writing for what it says and try applying it infield, but that turned out to be a hassle and once Lumpy contacted me I was like ok I’ll just stay as YaReally.
Hell, that’s WHY Lumpy archived my shit for me, ’cause I didn’t want to start or maintain a blog. I don’t even know the guy, he just came out of nowhere and hit me up with an automatic archive thing and handles it all himself ’cause he’s just a genuinely nice dude who wanted to preserve useful content. Wait maybe he’s also an RSD shill getting paid to archive all of Tyler’s content secretly through my posts! Oh shit Lumpy we’ve been found out bro!!!
That’s why I don’t have an eBook for sale or anything, I don’t want to maintain any of that shit or come up with topics to talk about. Oh wait it must be because I’m making sick bank with my cross-promo from Tyler while he sucks my dick lol No one would just want to HELP other guys, THAT’S crazy. You totally got me. Hank, Scribblerg, Culum, Wala, Forge, I’m just grooming you guys so I can make you take RSD bootcamps, all of my writing was just a scam to promote RSD to you, I can’t believe you guys thought I actually, you know, legitimately cared that Wala couldn’t get over his BPD ex and her games, or that I gave a shit about scribblerg being at the lowest point of his life and linking him videos and content to help him get past his old age insecurities and enjoy his life again, or actually cared about hank progressing, or give a shit about Softek being in his shitty relationship and how that’s going to end, you guys fell for my puppet-master manipulation, how many bootcamps have you guys taken, dozens yet?? Better sign up for more, I gotta get my Tyler royalties!!
“Could you let us know here if you move?”
Don’t know what I’ll do yet but I’m sure as fuck not typing out a 500 paragraph transcript of an RSD video with no advertising in it when I could just say “here, check this 10 minute video out and it’ll help you get over your looks insecurities and keep your girlfriend attracted”.
“Anyway, it is a big inconvenience but I think you are taking this too personally as well.”
This is 100% personal to me. We all know he’s not talking about someone else. Dude is flat out calling me a paid shill here to undermine his blog. Like I haven’t been linking vids from a ton of companies since day one over on Heartiste. RSD just puts out daily videos and cover the range of topics. I’ll be happy to link Mystery’s latest video, oh wait, he hasn’t put out a new video in fucking forever. I’ll link some Simple Pickup vids, oh wait they don’t have a good video that covers being an older guy learning to attract young women. I’ll link Rollo’s infield, oh wait he doesn’t make any.
It’s not MY fault other companies haven’t stepped up to RSD’s level or that Tyler is just smart about flooding the market with their content the same way Sandman does or that that content just HAPPENS to be REALLY fucking useful and free.
“Rollo may be paranoid but with the chances of getting doxxed etc. it pays to be paranoid.”
Ya I was the one that warned him the RVF doxxed him back when they turned on him to try to help him, just like I warn the rest of you guys about that shit. But hey, all part of my scam to get you guys to sign up for Tyler bootcamps really!
“I have never met Owen and have no idea how valid his claims are”
He’d be the first to tell you to go out infield and try what he says out for yourself. ’cause that’s how the oldschool mASF community WAS. I don’t care if he does shady business stuff, he’s probably a huge fucking douchebag and he was a manipulative sperglord for years till he got older and chilled out (check his vibe now VS the old David DeAngelo days).
All that matters to me is that the things that he says hold up infield and help guys handle their shit (internal and external). I’m not giving him my money and I encourage other guys NOT to give him their money either. Just take the useful FREE content and go apply it and change your fucking life so you don’t end up a MGTOW, MRA, suicide case asking Rollo for help when shit falls apart for you etc
Or don’t, it’s your life lol
“Can’t you see that perspective?”
Except that he’s CLEARLY implying that I’m working for Tyler or profit/benefit in some way from posting RSD vids. That’s what the “you or Tyler can contact me for a promo deal” shit is about.
“Anyway, maybe if Rollo was willing to say ‘Yeah, I have an issue with Owen’ and YaReally were willing to say ‘OK dude, I’ll post content from any other PUA outfit going forward then’ – things could get back on track. Just a suggestion.”
If anyone can show me another PUA outfit that has infield of them in HD with perfect lighting/audio coaching a newbie into befriending a jacked dude with a table of girls into letting him use their table and mack their girls, I’ll be MORE THAN HAPPY to link that. Anyone got any links of that for me to link instead? Anyone? Rollo, you got video of this coming out? Or you got any videos from your “accepted PUA resources” that are okay to link from for me to link instead?
There IS no other PUA outfit putting a video like that out for me to link. Which means now I have to try to textually describe and transcript the whole fucking thing for guys to try to guess in their mind what it looks like and still not believe it because they don’t actually see it.
“Who benefits more if YaReally posts free RSD vids here? Readers? Rollo? RSD? YaReally?”
Personally I assumed the benefits of the reader came before the rest of those. Same way I’ll link videos from guys I don’t even like like Roosh if he puts out a video that shows something solid. All that matters to me is helping the guys who are looking to avoid being the next Elliot Rogers or George Sodini or suicide victim or sad nerd who spends 30 years dreaming of being able to get girls without having to hire a hooker to pretend she’s attracted or divorce-rape victim after a guy stops triggering Hypergamy and she goes War Bride on him (#NOTALLMARRIAGES)…I don’t care where that content comes from.
But Roosh isn’t putting out videos of him making out with 21yo girls for me to link Scribblerg to help him feel confident that his age/looks don’t matter.
But I guess that’s why I’m not the author of a successful Brand(TM).
In fact the better question is: who LOSES OUT more with no free RSD vids allowed here? Readers? Rollo? RSD? Me?
I can tell you which one loses out the most. By a fucking MILE. My mistake was thinking that mattered over ego wars and ad bucks.
“@theasdgamer: I’d say readers benefit the most, because it saves us time. RSD posts a ton of videos and very long ones. I spent some minutes trying to find the situation YaReally is talking about on a recent video and didn’t find it yet.”
Type “RSD tyler taxi” into YouTube, it’s the first interaction with the girl in the cab. Note Tyler’s messy hair, plain t-shirt, etc and the mindsets he’s describing (in terms of not being attached to the outcome, feeling entitled to get physical and escalate, etc).
BE CAREFUL, AT THE VERY END OF THE VIDEO HE TALKS ABOUT HIS PRODUCT!!! SORRY IF THIS COUNTS AS PROMOTION ROLLO!!!!!111
From that video even (part of why I have these all memorized is because when I link them I let them play in the background while I do other shit after I post lol):
“Is there anything here that if I had more money, would help this girl (that he’s carrying off into an alleyway to makeout with) to be even MORE attracted? What if I was like yo girl wait hold up just so you knowwww I make moneyyyyy!! Would that help?
Would it make a difference if I was better looking? Would this girl be even MORE receptive? Would she be like “you’re really good-looking! For the redhead 5’9″ guy I just let him drag me behind the building and get it on but for the REALLY good-looking guy I’d fuck him right on the street! Would that happen? No.”
“What this shows you is that there’s an entire society of men running around, running a rat race thinking that they’re gonna do THIS (pulling young girls to fuck) when they get to a certain point. And it’s SO fucking EASY to get what they want, it’s ridiculous.”
Ya, nothing in there that’s relevant to any topics TRM covers like looks/money being relevant or triggering Hypergamy or internal self confident and entitlement and outcome dependence. Nope, just SPAM, GO SIGN UP FOR BOOTCAMPS OR I CAN’T PAY MY BILLS EVERYONE!!!!1111 Much more productive to talk about Emily’s latest boyfriend drama.
Googling for a way to link RSD videos without increasing their view count on them (if that’s the thing that has Rollo’s panties in a twist, like that they’re getting 10 extra views from the guys here who actually click and watch the videos lol), but I can’t find a way to do that.
People use archive sites to link articles without giving the site clicks/views but it looks like there’s no way to do that on YouTube. I don’t even know if that would help chill Rollo out if I could do it, but if I could I would link every RSD video through that cause the free content helps guys and that’s all I care about. That video of the girl with the cab has a handful of free clips in it that show fucking GREAT stuff internal AND external with infield reactions from girls…anyone who thinks that isn’t relevant to the stuff talked about on TRM, like, I dunno what to tell ya.
“and both of you have this incredible passion and drive to spread that knowledge and empathy for other men, and drive to help other men for zero profit to yourselves”
That’s how I viewed it too. Looks like things have changed.
“so having your own FREE BLOG THAT TAKES 5 MINUTES TO SET UP, will let you do that without having to worry about censorship or outing yourself”
Easier to get doxxed once you spread out past comment sections and I don’t want to come up with topics to talk about or moderate a comment section for spam etc That’s why I’ve just hung out in comment sections from the start. I’m just a part of the discussion and keeping shit in check when people make claims that the field doesn’t back up (by linking video showing the opposite infield). I have zero desire to sit down and write articles for a handful of dudes who happen to hear about my blog in some corner of the internet. I wouldn’t even have an archive if it wasn’t for Lumpy volunteering his time/effort, you’d have to look through every comment section page and search for my name to find all my writing lol
On top of that how long before Rollo says “no linking to YaReally’s responses to me, too many RSD videos on there”? No point writing in a place no one visits, that’s not going to help many guys. Half the people who benefit from my shit are the lurkers here who don’t speak up ’cause they don’t want to get involved but are learning from what they read.
Just not worth the effort to me to blog. I do this stuff because I like to help and it’s fun (PLUS THE PHAT T-DAWG CASH I MAKE OF COURSE), but realistically I’m still building my career/wealth (in an industry completely unrelated to pickup lol) and I’d rather focus my time on that than start a blog. Commenting is nice and low-effort.
“Rollo just doesn’t want to be associated with them at this stage for whatever reasons.”
His implication was that I’m benefitting from promoting their shit and my posting is some kind of free advertising for them.
“It doesn’t make sense to me that you are a shill, but it also doesn’t make sense to me that Rollo actually doesn’t like your content (FR breakdowns and so on).”
Who fucking knows? Maybe the FRs should all go too. What say you, Rollo? Damn PUAs just fuckin everything up going out and testing Red Pill theory infield and showing that even your regular readers can improve their lives with direct application of this stuff and sharing that with everyone to keep eachother inspired and motivated to understand the Red Pill and women and Hypergamy etc better.
“Just as one relevant example, Rollo uses some of your comments to write new entries (there was even a fairly recent one which I’m sure you remember).”
That’s why you’d think he would understand that sometimes it’s worth linking the useful content of someone you don’t particularly like when there’s a good point to be made from that content.
“This shows clearly he does value your input, despite disagreeing with some bits (like the looks matters stuff).”
No worries about the looks matter thing. He can put out “TRM Book 4: Get Rich & Jacked” next now that no one can post nice clear HD perfect undeniable evidence of a scrawny (or fat depending on the year lol) short balding old bearded weirdo getting 3-way makeouts with 21yo’s since NO ONE (especially guys coming from the blue pill) is going to believe me when I textually describe “trust me guise, Tyler pulled this girl out of a taxi and he had messy hair and she totally made out with him!!!” Gotta tighten up that hugbox of theory before guys start questioning the FI!
“Alright, seeing as there’s no practical way to just ban videos I’ve reinstated the old posts. And I’ll lift the ban, but I will be adding a disclaimer to TRM’s footer that state this site is not an endorsement of RSD in particular.”
I can literally post at the top of any post I link RSD vids in or under each vid “TRM DOES NOT ENDORSE RSD” whenever I post if you want. Seriously, I don’t care, as long as guys see/hear what the video is teaching.
“If I ban other people for spamming here with their penis enlargement products and yet turn a blind eye to the direct association RSD has with TRM (via YaReally’s endless advertising for them) what does that say about that integrity?”
If you think the **FREE** RSD content that guys who’ve spoke up about have talked about how useful has been to them, is the equivalent of penis pill spam, then I dunno what to say.
“I understand that’s all about educational purposes, but there is literally no other association.”
IAS just said I linked him Paul Janka’s stuff. I link tons of other content.
“I make a post referencing NIck Krauser and the entire discussion is rerouted to being about how his term for an RSD term is incorrect and RSD ought to be the benchmark for semantics”
That’s because it IS incorrect. If it wasn’t incorrect I wouldn’t have said anything. AND I referenced Mystery Method as much as RSD in that. I said Mystery Method a thousand fucking times in that comment section and that what Krauser was doing was just properly executing Mystery Method.
“not the idea itself, but how it ought to correctly align with RSD.”
Surely you understand how calling “push/pull” by that term across the entire PUA sphere, and then Krauser calling it “increase/decrease” and you call it “advance/retreat” and Roosh calls it “vehicle/applesauce”, is confusing for newbies to the Red Pill who ALREADY have a ton of new ideas and content to take in and keep straight.
I’d LOVE if I could go “actually Krauser is just executing Mystery Method properly” and “looks don’t matter” and people went “that’s a great point YaReally, I agree!” but instead I get a shitload of pushback (including from you) and I have to post a bunch of shit to show what I’m talking about. But you ignore all my references to MM and focus on the RSD because Tyler’s good at marketing and puts out content that you and the rest of the Manosphere and 99% of the PUA-sphere don’t put out.
Without properly understanding these things your books will be inaccurate content. That inaccurate content will live on for generations and continue to feed the FI-conditioned system that has guys needing your content in the first place, until we can get guys to break out of their conditioning and go “ohhh, this IS just Mystery Method, I GET it now” and “ohhh, looks DON’T matter, I GET it now”, and unfortunately no one will listen to my textual description of that and Mystery doesn’t put out many infield videos for me to link while the RSD guys put out daily videos.
One last thing and then I have to go get ready for tonight:
The reason I take the shilling accusations personally is because every accusation ruins the credibility of my archive. Every accusation, especially coming from *THE* ROLLO TOMASSI HIMSELF, not some random hater that just pops out to accuse me or some regular commenter who disagrees with me, but from Rollo the guy who’s name carries all sorts of Manosphere weight…every accusation lets guys who ALREADY DON’T WANT TO BELIEVE WHAT I’M SAYING or what RSD is demonstrating in their infields, go “I KNEW it!! Just a paid shill for RSD!! I knew those RSD guys were scam-artists!!” and that guy, who could have turned his fucking life around by reading parts of my archive or watching some of RSDs videos, has Rollo-endorsed incentive to double-down on his limiting beliefs and social conditioning and never get past the Purple Pill keyboard jockey theory stage, or just dismiss all this shit entirely.
That’s a big deal. Do you guys have ANY FUCKING IDEA how hard it is to convince a Scribblerg that his age doesn’t matter to girls and that an older man with a bit of a belly can still attract young women and he should cold approach them??? Or to convince Hank that he has actual potential when the rest of his life is shittying on him, and that he can actually get girls attracted to him??? Or to convince Culum to get off those fucking sugardaddy sites because I KNOW can get attraction in real life?? Or to get Walawala to NOT take the bait his BPD ex throws at him and keep running back to her??
It’s hard as FUCK, because they don’t WANT to believe that stuff.
They (at first) WANT to believe I’m full of shit, they WANT me to be some RSD shill that they can discount and skip past all the “obviously fake” RSD infield. Because that stuff threatens their entire understanding of the world around them and it’s SO MUCH EASIER for Scribblerg to just not try and to just be some lame old man that dies feeling worthless, or for Hank to stay in and just be depressed and slit his wrists, or for Wala to keep going back to that BPD chick till Rollo is posting his divorce-rape story as an example for us to talk about 10 years from now.
The guys typing in “why did my marriage break up?” “what is Hypergamy” “how do I get a girlfriend” “why did my girlfriend cheat on me with that better looking guy” “i’m suicidal and never going to get a girlfriend because I was born short/asian/etc” etc are the guys who NEED to see this stuff shoved in their face and HAVE their limiting beliefs ripped apart so they can get out of the dark spiral they’re usually headed down that leads to places NONE of us want to see men end up.
So ya, sorry if anyone thinks I’m throwing a hissy-fit but I DO take it to heart when Rollo throws some credibillty assassination my way like it’s nothing.
No idea what a nofollow is exactly or how to do it but someone let me know exactly how to link a nofollow YouTube video and I’ll be happy to add ?=nofollow or whatever to every RSD vid I post from here on out lol EVEN THOUGH IT MEANS I’LL BE POOR BECAUSE I WON’T GET MY TYLER-DOUGH!!
“I’d actually be interested to know what YaReally’s response to this article would be:”
“Sex with strangers is foreign to mankind.”
“Thus, that whole James Bond mysterious Alpha-Sigma fantasy, is just that, a fantasy. A girl is not gonna be aroused by the ‘mysterious’, enlightened loner ‘doing his own thing’””
Agreed. This is passive game. If he just sits back and “does his own thing”, he’s not going to get much attention if there are other men in the room demonstrating higher value.
“that hits on the ladies by himself.”
Retarded. I’d post a million infields of PUAs (from ANY company) pulling girls “hitting on the ladies by themselves”. This is just fear-mongering bullshit that gives guys an excuse to avoid stepping up and Cold Approaching the girls they want.
“It’s all about status because”
PUA is about teaching guys how to DHV, aka demonstrate status. I literally posted a video of a skinny newbie nobody-chode getting access to the same girls the looks/money guys have at their table. The second that guy wins over the table host as his new buddy, he has status to the women observing them.
The rich 6-pack CEO who tears up the boardroom has the same status as the skinny newbie nobody-chode if he’s taken out of where he has situational confidence and doesn’t know how to express himself and DHV. All girls care about is the DEMONSTRATION of value. PUA teaches guys how to efficiently demonstrate high-value.
“Cold approach is an attempt to circumvent the need for group belonging.”
This doesn’t even make sense. This author doesn’t even know what Cold Approach pickup looks like. What he’s talking about is just sniping solo girls off by yourself. Cold Approach often involves engaging more than just the girl herself one on one. And even THEN the girl doesn’t care if you don’t have “group belonging”, as long as you’re cool and flip the right switches. This person either doesn’t do Cold Approach or is fucking terrible at it. He has a fantasy vision of what it is in his head that he’s arguing about. It’s just strawman nonsense.
“Cold-approach puts you in a position of compensation. You must make up for sexual attribute displays that occur in a tribal setting (i.e. a party) by substituting it with mere hints and exceptional qualities…”
This is just dumb lol This is the exact same “any guy who approaches a girl is supplicating!!” argument MGTOWs, MRAs etc make. “ALL GAME IS SUPPLICATION ANYTHING YOU DO TO GET A GIRL MEANS YOU’RE CHASING HER”
“Assumption: You’re seeking casual sex (no commitment of any sort).
1) Exceptional Looks”
Gosh, I wonder what the author’s viewpoint is. Again this sounds like someone who hasn’t had casual sex much.
“This is because the benefits of facial aesthetics lie on an exponential curve (click image).”
Mental masturbation and passive-game thinking.
“Good looks simply get your foot in the door.”
Like I say, good-looks will get you some free gimme iois. But it generally won’t be from the visibly large and muscular. You need a physique that shows through your clothes.”
Irrelevant passive-game thinking.
“3) Great game”
“4) Play the numbers game”
Sure, though it’s inconsistent and proper game will improve your conversion rate.
“5) Fake pre-selection”
Or try REAL pre-selection by opening girls and socializing. Again, this is a cartoon fantasy of what Cold Approach is.
“6) Be a Bad boy”
Sure, it’s a group of DHVs.
“7) Power. Be an iconic barrier to entry to something she needs: school grades (teacher/TA/professor), auditioning (actress/dancer judge), paycheck (boss), club entrance (bouncer/doorman), something that makes you the official decision maker in her context.”
Sure. But kind of pathetic and a situation-based crutch (which again comes back to selection…the guy who learns to Cold Approach can open that girl in the cereal aisle at the grocery store no problem, but the saddest guys you’ll ever meet are the bouncers who’ve been bouncing for years and don’t have any other real job skillset and WANT to settle down into an LTR with a girl who isn’t a bar-star, but their job forces them to only be able to select from those girls because as soon as they leave that bar they’re just a guy with a low-value job and feel that way when they’re in the grocery store seeing that girl they think would be quality LTR material)
“8) Money. You can be just decent in the previous categories, but you have a Lambo or sporty Porsche and that does the trick.”
100% accurate. This will absolutely generate intense sexual desire for you as a person and won’t just get you gold-diggers and girls looking to date you and put you in the Provider category. Just flash a bunch of cash and their pussies will get soaking wet for you. lol this author is probably just some TRP forum or Manosphere guy.
“A good portion of the westernized female population have developed a high tolerance due to constant validation they receive everyday on their cellphones from chads and betas around the world for simply existing.”
Even a broken clock is right twice a day and all that. I remember some PUA around here mentioning this trend but the OMGs have assured us that this isn’t the case…
“You could be good looking, confident, dress decent, and make good money but still won’t be even be considered for insemination.”
“Take the same you and place a fun social circle around it, then suddenly she’s sexually interested.”
Agreed. But you don’t need to be good-looking, confident, dress decent, or make good money to build a fun social circle, or to create one on the fly off Cold Approach just like Julien demonstrates in that “Merging Sets” video I won’t link so I don’t ruin the Rollo Brand(TM) with my silly infield videos demonstrating that articles like this are lying to men and keeping them trapped in FI-based mindsets that will hinder their progress.
“This is because women don’t see you for you, they see men as tools to extract things from.”
Providers, sure. Unless you consider “sex and emotional rollercoasters” as things they want to extract (from Lovers), then sure I’ll agree.
“When you have status in a social circle, she sees the social circle as power that you personally wield in the environment that she can potentially tap into.”
This is just DHV’ing. Again you don’t have to be good-looking, have money, etc to demonstrate this and you can DHV a bunch of other ways and get sexual attraction too.
“This is why women insist on you two being a public social setting instead of a one-on-one.”
Today I learned I’ve been fucking women in public instead of in my apartment. Where do the people inside my apartment hide exactly when I have a girl from online just come over to my place as our first hangout and we fuck? Although I do leave the curtains open for the girls with an exhibitionism fetish, maybe that’s what he means?
“Cold Approach Is Attempting to Defy Biology”
lol irrelevant shit. Is this guy selling a Social Circle Game product? I’m sure RSD Luke says some of this to sell his Social Circle game product, but he also stresses that he’s running Social Circle game, that’s his thing, and that the rules aren’t always the same for Cold Approach VS Social Circle, and RSD students know that because they don’t just look at one instructor’s content.
“Most of these successful ‘cold’-approaches weren’t cold at all, you piqued her interest the moment she saw you, then you escalated from there.”
Again this guy doesn’t really know what Cold Approach is and probably hasn’t done it much or doesn’t know how to do it well. This can easily be debunked by the ton of infield I can post of guys approaching girls who have no idea they exist. Literally every YAD stop is basically shitting on this guy’s mental masturbation theory. Hell, you can sexually attract a woman through just txting her or over the phone etc with her having no idea what you look like.
This is stupid, Rollo. Why did you even link this article? Do you think this article is a good representation of PUA or carries any kind of actual weight beyond “it sounds good in theory in my head”? This is why I link so much RSD stuff, because the stuff from other companies is based on mental masturbation theory that can be debunked so fucking easily. You want me to link someone other than RSD, then find me someone who’s putting out shit that legitimately holds up infield the way what they’re teaching does.
If this article was “Social Circle is a good way to get laid”, then cool, that’s awesome. I’d be like “ya, he’s right” Even if he titled it “Social Circle is the easiest and fastest way to get laid”. But instead he has to go “COLD APPROACH IS WROOOOONG, IT DEFIES BIOLOGY, IT DOESN’T WORK, IT’S A MYTH AND A FANTASY”, which is just retarded. This is either marketing a Social Circle product or a guy who just mentally masturbates about pickup.
It’s fucking dumb to me that you have such an issue with the stuff RSD teaches and then you link to guys like Krauser who don’t even understand when they’re running Mystery Method right, or guys like whoever wrote this article who have no idea wtf they’re talking about and can be debunked with a few infield videos and a weekend out infield instead of the computer chair.
If this is the kind of shit you want men to study over RSD, you will set the progress of the next generation of men back significantly. That’s just a fact.
“Most practicioners believe that you can simply approach any attractive woman with no initial interest (the ‘cold’ in cold-approach), then miraculously summon the tingles with their super-duper magic potion rituals + confidence.”
Again, infield footage and fucking going out debunk this silly exaggeration shit. Any guy who’s passed a shit-test or DHV’ed in some other way to a girl who was indifferent to him and saw her attraction spark knows that this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
“Predictably, this sex-alchemy fails.”
Again, shitload of infield I could post, from a dozen different companies.
“That’s because approaching is a response to IOIs.”
Fucking idiot. This guy has no idea what Cold Approach is. What he’s calling “Cold Approach” is “guys passively standing around “doing their own thing” being the mysterious James Bond, waiting for IOIs to safely approach”. THAT’S NOT COLD APPROACH. That’s passive Warm Approach game. It’s what Naturals do. Maybe this guy is a Natural who just uses social circles as his crutch, that could explain why his perspective is so completely off-base. Naturals tend to rely on IOIs and often consider that “Cold Approaching”, but it’s not. This is why we use consistent definitions even though you hate that, because it stops bullshit incorrect misleading stuff like this from happening that will fuck newbies up who read it.
“She either likes you or she doesn’t.”
Again any guy who’s turned a girl around or made a girl go from indifferent to attracted knows this is nonsense.
“There’s very little you can do to change this unless you can increase the DHV.”
Which PUA teaches you to efficiently do.
“Sure a woman’s feelings for you can change over a longer period of time, but this isn’t worth the effort. Just ask any veteran PUAs such as Roosh”
Ok Rollo. Seriously. Here’s what you do in the future when you want to post an article that you think has some kind of legitimacy: do a CTRL+F search for “Rollo”, “Krauser”, “GLL”, “Cernovich”, really most of the names in the Manosphere. If you see their name come up and it’s in a sentence that’s giving them any kind of authority on what PUA is or how it works, disregard that article completely or you’ll embarrass yourself. The Manosphere is REALLY FUCKING BAD at pickup in general and has a VERY limited understanding of how attraction actually works because they are generally anti-PUA and circle-jerk eachother off, blind leading the blind style. The fact that the RVF didn’t know G-Manifesto was full of shit (because he played right into their silly cartoon character fantasies of what game is and played them all like a fucking fiddle) shows that these guys just don’t really GET this stuff. Krauser is at least putting in the field time compared to most of the Manosphere so props to him for that, but he still has some off-base assumptions (that he’ll probably figure out in time but he could save himself a shitload of time by listening to my critiques/advice and watching the RSD resources I’d link him to help him connect dots that he won’t connect for a few years doing it on his own). No hate for them but these are guys who don’t really understand this stuff learning from guys who also don’t really understand this stuff to the in-depth level guys like Tyler and Julien are teaching.
“You are much better off investing in yourself, being more social, and letting things happen organically than trying to force it.”
You’re not “much better off” if you want selection, a diverse skillset, the ability to pick and choose the girls you want, the ability to handle different obstacles and situations, etc etc
Again if this author wrote “Social Circle is great”, cool, but shitting on what he thinks Cold Approach is just reveals that he’s got no idea what he’s talking about.
“Cold Approach is Inefficient”
PUAs from day one, including myself, have said over and over that Cold Approach is the least efficient and hardest way to get laid, but it’s the fastest and most efficient way to learn game and understand female psychology and improve all your subcomms, internals, learning how to work different types of groups and calibrate etc, and gives you the most choice (ie – you can see a girl you want and have a solid skillset to increase your odds of being able to get her regardless of her circumstances because you’ve put yourself into a ton of different situations VS the guy that stays in his comfort zone or uses crutches…most guys don’t just get into the game to get laid, they get into the game to get laid by the girls they’re specifically attracted to and WANT, otherwise they could just get hookers).
The most efficient way to get laid is Warm Approach social circle game. We’ve always said that. The problem is just that it doesn’t build your skills very fast, often comes with a lot of drama, newbies miscalibrating can earn themselves social ostracization (VS fucking up in a nightclub full of anonymous people they won’t see again), and you’re limited in selection to the girls in your social circle.
“1-on-1 dates are NOT how most sex is had.”
Irrelevant. Again we can post tons of infield of guys on Day2s who go get laid and any guy who goes on Day2s knows he can get laid from a solid Day2. This author is coming off as a guy who’s literally never successfully banged anything but girls in his social circle at social circle parties.
“If she does not see how she can gain access to social capital via your introduction (without the compensation stated above), she more thank likely won’t be interested.”
She doesn’t care if a Lover is a scumbag piece of shit, as long as he gives her the emotional impact she wants and flips the switches. Author doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
“Believe me, take this from a tall, good looking guy who spent years attempting to circumvent the need for a ‘tribe’ while pursuing casual sex with cold-approach. Little success came from it. Only solo interactions with women whose niche I so happen to fit were successful”
Fuck. Come ON Rollo. You talk shit about RSD and then link this garbage. This is like rejecting papers from Einstein in favor of your 6 year old’s paper.
This is just a generic good-looking dude who relied on passive-game where he waits for green light IOIs before he approaches. It’s nothing to do with actual Cold Approach. You should know this but you probably don’t watch any of the RSD videos I link either (since you keep harping on how they’re all advertisements when half the time they’re just Tyler talking to the camera not mentioning anything about products or bootcamps).
This guy is EXACTLY what the Manosphere is full of and why the Manosphere will make no actual progress in pickup. The guy uses shitty Manosphere “experts” like Roosh as his authority on pickup, runs passive “if I just stand around looking good and wait for IOIs and then just wing the interaction and hope she picks me, that’s pickup!!” game, and then when it doesn’t work he cries and finds a crutch and becomes an “expert” writing an article on how Cold Apporach is a myth, while other guys are out successfully Cold Approaching all the fucking time and there’s tons of infield of guys from every company and amateurs etc Cold Approaching successfully.
This is the reason I even came to the Manosphere. Because this type of guy is what the Manosphere is full of and I figured I could clear some shit up about how pickup ACTUALLY works.
“You cannot possibly replicate the dynamic of a social scene and all the indirect indicators of value by yourself.”
This is a guy with a 100% Social Circle crutch. Which makes sense given his view of what game is. For his shitty passive game, ya, social circle is GREAT for him. And he SHOULD get a 6-pack and match his $300 shoes to his belt, because his game is shitty/boring enough that girls will look for that stuff on him. He has no idea what Cold Approach is or what actually turns women on.
“Social connections and events + social media creates a chain reaction of pre-selection and social proof across multiple contexts simultaneously without you having to be present. Your reputation precedes you, nullifying the need for reintroduction.”
Agreed. Social Circle is a fast efficient way to get laid with girls in your social circle. If the article was about that, cool. But his attempt to “debunk Cold Approach” just shows that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
“Using the loner cold-approach technique, you have to start all over again with every girl you meet.”
Yes, that’s why it builds your skillset better. Because you practice DHV’ing over and over and over and handling obstacles, targeting specific girls, learning to build social proof and pre-selection from scratch etc, over and over and over.
“The idea behind cold-approaching was to get guys comfortable with talking to women and given a big enough sample size, a girl is bound to allow you to stick your penis inside her (read: number’s game).”
This is not what Cold Approach PUA is. This is what a guy who runs passive game and learns pickup from the Manosphere thinks Cold Apporaching is.
“For this reason, cold-approach is spam.”
Mystery’s goal was “5 for 5” for a reason. These days PUA focuses a lot more on spamming approaches, which I don’t approve of, but all the original shit was about quality of interaction, not quantity, and learning to spark attraction where there is none and turn girls around etc
“So go ahead, be the lone-wolf alpha-sigma all you want, just understand you will acquire inferior results compared to men with objectively lower SMV + social circles.”
Take a guy who relies on his social circle to get laid and put us both in a bar where we don’t know anyone and I’ll mop the floor with him while he stands in a corner with a beer up at his chest because he doesn’t have his crutches…’cause one of us will have developed actual internal confidence and a solid skillset and be able to approach the girls we want, while the other took the easy comfort zone route and settles for the handful of girls in his social circle that choose him.
“5) ‘Alpha-M’ mentioned in the ‘bad boy’ section is a good looking, ripped-as-fuck dude that has good advice on clothing styles, cologne choices/tips, and other man-shit. Worth checking out.”
lolol FOR SURE!! GET THE RIGHT COLOGNE BRO, THAT’S MAN-SHIT!! MAKE SURE YOU GET YOUR GAYLUBEOIL TANKTOP AND READ MORE OF THESE ROLLO BRAND(TM) APPROVED ARTICLES!!
This is why I post a bunch of RSD shit. Because the RSD guys actually go out regularly. Your getting sad over their videos being linked will 1) hold future men back, and 2) make your writing inaccurate because you aren’t even getting proper information to base your writing on. You’ll continue to promote your “fireman calendar” theories that the Manosphere loves to circle-jerk to, that the field proves wrong every weekend and in every infield video I’m not allowed to link, and as a result your books will be setting up the future generations of men that read them to fail.
This isn’t me hating on you, this is me giving you a dose of objective reality. The fact that you would even read past the first paragraph of this article is like, YOU should have been watching the RSD videos I’ve been linking all these years.
I mean look at this shit Rollo:
theasdgamer: “Field evidence doesn’t support the article’s assertions. The article is based on Purple Pill Theory, not field evidence. Keyboard jockeying.”
FIWL: “I’m just a newbie still learning the ropes when it comes to gaming but I call out these assertion above totally false because of what i did. Totally Keyboard Jockey Theory.”
hank holiday: “I have to chime in on the Cold Approach is a Lone-Wolf Fantasy article, because it is completely wrong on so many levels.”
Anonymous Reader: “I’m not YaReally but that Cold Approach article has so many holes in it, and caveats that give the author wiggle room to weasel out, that I stopped reading after a while.”
Culum Struan: “The thing is it’s quite painful to unpick because he’s got some stuff I agree with in there, mixed in with a lot of flawed analysis and thinking and misunderstandings – it’ll really need a YaReally style line by line breakdown to do it justice and I can’t be bothered today.”
Even newbies and our resident self-admitted sperg can instantly tell that article is bullshit from the word go. Why can’t YOU, Rollo? YOU should be watching the RSD videos I link.
It’s like you’re going to knowingly write articles about rocket science while not reading papers on rocket fuel chemistry from the leading group of scientists who are actively flying rockets into space every week. How is that an acceptable approach to teaching Red Pill stuff to you when you value the quality of your work? Everything in the Red Pill is built upon the core base of “how attraction and female psychology ACCURATELY work”. If you start with a bad base, there WILL be problems with your theories and conclusions down the road.
You said the looks/money stuff was relevant before, but you were just uninformed so that’s okay. Now we’ve taken that idea down over and over and over again and we can keep continuing to do so with infield after infield and sending guys FROM this comment section out to pressure-test ideas like that over and over and repeatedly debunk it and build up more and more evidence against it. So for you to keep promoting something like that and basing more theories on thinking those things are true, while refusing to look at anything contrary or allowing evidence to the contrary to be posted (because it happens to be in an RSD video since NO ONE ELSE is recording infield of it in the quality they are), that’s you choosing to actively push incorrect information on the men that will be reading your books for generations to come and I think you’re better than that but it seems like you don’t want to invest the time in learning or revisiting/revising your previous beliefs/writing.
You have more learning to do about the core of how attraction works. That’s not an insult and ban me if you want for saying it flat out like this, but there WILL be repercussions for your close-mindedness in the form of men getting hurt by being misinformed because you haven’t done your homework and are now censoring the very resources that show that stuff like that shitty article you linked is bullshit mental masturbation.
But I’m sure the debate with ollieoxenfree in the new article will be MUCH more valuable than seeing Tyler show a newbie how to befriend high-value guys and get access to their girls without using their looks/money.
@Culum Struan @Sentient
“Like I don’t usually watch those RSD videos, but they seem to have a guy who is some kind of fitness trainer? Is it Elliot Hulse or am I thinking of something else? What’s the deal with him for example? And several other such guys. ”
Just to nip this in the bud, if you guys watch the zillion hours of content Tyler puts out you’ll see him talking ABOUT all of this stuff and his plans to expand into different channels etc and why they hang out with the fitness guys and the marajuana guy and Tai Lopez and shit.
He’s also talked a bunch about how the marketing gets guys in the door because (to paraphrase, since I can’t just link the video where he says this): No one wants to buy the book titled “How to spend a year exercising consistently slowly losing a pound or two a week while restricting your sugar and cutting out bad foods that taste good, to get a decent looking body”, they want to buy the book that says “GET JACKED IN A WEEK WITHOUT LIFTING A SINGLE WEIGHT WHILE EATING NOTHING BUT CAKE” because everyone wants quick-fix solutions and he HAS to promote it that way to get guys in the door where instructors can tell them “look, this is a long-term solution, we’re not going to fix you in a weekend but we can help you improve and give you the tools to improve if you keep going out after this bootcamp and work on this for a few years”
Again I can link videos where they talk about exactly what they teach guys on bootcamp and how they make sure guys know that they’ll need to work on this stuff long-term even if they have a great experience on bootcamp.
Nothing wrong with handing a newbie an easy lay reward for doing a good job. That newbie who approached the VIP table and was approaching girls all night pushed his comfort zones and learned a shitload, handing him an easy lay at 2am as a reward for the effort he put in isn’t a big deal.
Now if INSTEAD of hitting the field they just throw easy pussy at them, like it’s 10pm and they spike a girl and pass her on and the student goes home with her at 10:30pm, then I have a problem with that because that’s not teaching him anything.
But otherwise it’s not much different from you going out and pushing yourself hard infield, learning a bunch of shit that you didn’t know before (like learning how to merge sets or deal with AMOGs etc) and if it’s 2am and while you learned a ton, nothing has panned out in terms of an actual lay, but you’ve put in your field time till 2am, you calling up a fuckbuddy isn’t a big deal…the important part is that you’re in the field pushing yourself from 10-2 or whatever. If you skipped the night out calling that fuckbuddy up at 10pm, then I’d give you shit for it.
But it’s SUPER easy to spin it in the worst way possible to demonize them, just like the Roosh “Is RSD hurting young men?” bullshit article.
Either way, none of that is relevant to what they’re actually teaching and how it holds up infield. Tyler could stab a bunch of puppy dogs but passing a shit-test would still spark attraction.
The bigger RSD gets and the more they expand and the more haters they rack up, the easier it will be for guys like Sentient to find pics of Luke in a blazer (ignoring all the pics of Luke in t-shirts) or a soundbite snippet of Julien saying something that sounds contradictory to something Tyler said 5 years ago etc etc and guys will use that to try to discredit everything they teach because they don’t REALLY care about guys learning anything (or are promoting their own products/system, DPA-style). They just care about stroking their ego and building their e-props on an internet forum.
Like debunking the shitty article Rollo linked was a complete waste of my time in that I gained absolutely nothing from it, and knew I wouldn’t and it would be a waste of my time because I knew from the first few sentences (the title alone, really lol) that it was going to be an entire article of mental masturbation bullshit (and thank-you to theasdgamer FIWL hank Anonymous Reader etc for calling it out as bullshit, if I get banned or can’t post RSD vids guys like you guys with your infield experience speaking out will be the only thing keeping this kind of bullshit from being given validity creating a hugbox of misinformation).
The reason I wasted my time debunking that entire article line by line, was to show Rollo how SHIT the other content out there is compared to what RSD is teaching, to show WHY I link so many RSD videos. I pay attention to a BUNCH of other companies (I can tell you off the top of my head what the latest Krauser article is about, or what James Marshall’s latest video is about etc), but RSD’s quality and depth of nuance and infield is just BETTER.
And just like I pulled apart Krauser’s “holy shit I accidentally ran Mystery Method properly so I’m going to give it a new name that implies something that will mislead newbies” article that Rollo found fascinating enough to give front-page coverage to (for the love of god please don’t post this shitty Cold Approach Is A Myth article on your front-page Rollo, if you actually care about your Brand quality lol), I’ll be happy to debunk any other article you want me to Rollo, from pretty much any other company that you think is putting out high-quality content (and simultaneously I’ll be more than happy to give credit and props to anything you find that DOES hold up infield, I’d LOVE more resources to link guys, that would be AWESOME). Eventually when I fuck enough of these in the face, you’ll understand why I post lots of RSD videos (along with LOTS of content from other companies, except that they don’t put out as much on as wide a variety of subjects or don’t cover them as in-depth or accurately).
But enjoy the Sentient dick-waving and character assassination of RSD, ’cause that’s all this thread will be from here on lol I’m not going to debunk it all, I’ll just trust everyone to use their critical thinking skills and to go watch some content and decide for yourself what, say, Madison is teaching (he has huge hour-long infield up recently) instead of letting someone posting a pic of Madison advertising his product convince you that his free videos will have nothing in it for you to learn from. The same way I’d encourage you not to listen to the mainstream media, put in the time and do your own research and test things out infield and decide for yourself what’s valuable content to you.
And remember Rollo: you ASKED for my opinion on that article, no complaining that I’m spamming PUA shit with this post.
(DISCLAIMER: THE RATIONAL MALE AND IT’S AUTHOR ROLLO TOMASSI DO NOT ENDORSE TOM CRUISE, THE JACK REACHER SERIES (BOOK OR MOVIE FORM), OR THE CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY. THE VIDEO ABOVE IS BEING POSTED FOR COMEDIC VALUE AND SHOULD NOT BE MISCONSTRUED AS BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THE RATIONAL MALE BRAND(TM) OR INTERPRETED AS ENCOURAGEMENT TO PURCHASE A MOVIE THEATER TICKET (FOR THIS OR ANY OF TOM CRUISE’S OTHER MOVIES) DESPITE THIS BLATANT 4 SECONDS OF OBVIOUSLY PAID ADVERTISING THAT I AM TOTALLY CASHING IN ON BECAUSE I WORK FOR TOM CRUISE. TOM CRUISE WILL BE CONTACTING ROLLO TOMASSI(TM)’S LAWYERS SOON TO DISCUSS CROSS-PROMOTION BRANDING DEALS)
Fucked up the cut & paste, that should read:
“Like I say, good-looks will get you some free gimme iois. But it generally won’t be from the 25 & under 8+/10 who’s surrounded by guys who look just as good as you in her social circles. It’ll usually be from the aggressive 5-7s.”
“Or TL:DR version: A bootcamp will not teach you to do what RSD Papa did in networking your way up. But it will teach you some foundational skills and mindset that you will need to get up to that level (and fill in some basic skill gaps that quite a few guys who got to that level have), although getting there requires a lot more than the bootcamp will teach.”
❤ Well said. They also make that clear on bootcamp and in their free videos that I can't link.
They're putting out a high-quality product because that BRINGS guys back voluntarily. They don't have to brainwash or trick them. In the latest video Tyler is taking questions from the audience and Tyler coaches the student through answering his OWN question because (WISH I COULD JUST LINK AND TIMESTAMP THIS INSTEAD OF TRANSCRIBING IT (it's at 39:02 in the latest freetour video "unleash your elite genius now")):
"I'm doing this to you because I want to train you in that thought process of just "look at it yourself and figure it out"." (aka NOT have to rely on RSD and their products, he's trying to TEACH guys to be SELF-SUFFICIENT at this because WE ALL HAD TO BE in the early days)
Then at 42:00 they have a tall super good-looking guy they nickname Thor ask how to stop ending up in the friend zone aka his looks aren't doing anything for him and Tyler gets him to figure out the answer for himself again, and explains:
(at 42:55): "What 5 things could you try to change that situation? How can you break that recurring pattern? How could you break it? Because this is how *I* think. I'm like "okay, I'm getting THIS response…what are a couple things I could tweak and try? And then I go test them and then that's where my next video comes from. So what could you test and try off the top of your head?"
And then he coaches the guy through figuring out the solution. He also busts another student for asking a question that he KNOWS the student knows the answer to and is just looking for permission from him instead of trusting his instincts.
If this all sounds like a guy who's trying to manipulate these guys into depending on RSD for all their answers and forcing them to only listen to Tyler and never think for themselves and just drink the RSD koolaid and sign up for more bootcamps, then I dunno what to tell ya.
But personally I'd expect that teaching these guys to think for themselves and to not just run to Tyler for the answers and to go out and field test things is not just the OPPOSITE of making them depend on RSD, but is something guys around here who go on and on about how "men should teach other men to be men" (they also harass the audience members asking questions to speak up and teach them about why they're stifled and scared to speak loud and authoritatively, you know, the lessons Blaximus' male influences probably taught him that these guys didn't get taught), would be APPLAUDED.
But hey, Papa talked about how beneficial networking has been for him, so fuck RSD and any of this content, it's all a marketing scaaaaaam lol Quick, Sentient, post another pic or duck meme!!
“That said, I don’t think you quite get how superior that RSDs vids are compared to most other places.”
This. Even LINKING that shitty article shows that Rollo doesn’t get this (probably because he doesn’t watch RSD videos and watch all the other companies and go out and field test stuff to compare the quality of what they’re teaching/demonstrating).
“James Marshall has some great day game shit, Gambler on lasers, and Liam Mcrae has an awesome vid on getting physical on girls, but ESPECIALLY when it comes to night club game you can’t really top RSD. ”
Ever notice how EVERY SINGLE TIME I talk about laser eye-contact I mention and/or link the Gambler video (specifically that one little section even though the whole thing is technically “an advertisement” by Rollo’s standards) and Liam McRae’s video INSTEAD of an RSD video on the subject?
Why do you think that is Rollo?
Because those are OBJECTIVELY *THE* best and most efficient explanations and demonstrations OF the concept of “laser eye-contact” and building sexual tension through subcomms instead of with verbals or other shit.
So EVERY SINGLE TIME I link them.
If RSD, Krauser, Roosh, YOU, that brown indian guy that Krauser hates, literally *ANYONE* puts out a better video for teaching guys what laser eye-contact is and how to do it and how to build sexual tension/chemistry with girls this way, I would be linking THAT video instead (more likely “as well as” lol)
But they HAVEN’T. So I just keep linking those two videos. Every fucking time. Because all I do is link the BEST examples and the BEST most effective/efficient explanations of concepts.
Just like I ALWAYS link Juggler method when people ask about building rapport etc
It just happens that 1) the RSD guys all go out a SHITLOAD so they get into nuances of what’s happening way better than your shitty article writer, 2) they put out DAILY content (when’s the last time Juggler put something out?), and 3) they purposely cover a HUGE variety of topics so whatever subject comes up, they probably have a video about that subject, whereas other companies either just keep rehashing the same few topics, or have just one or two instructors instead of a big variety of them, or rarely put out new/useful content, or cover subjects in bare minimum depth (or have misunderstandings), or have shitty infield or NO infield when the same subject covered by RSD comes with infield examples.
“So for most of the PUA principles the best video illustrations you are gonna find are from RSD…and they put out a SHITTON of videos on every conceivable nuance.”
“Disclaimer is a good idea, and like yareally, I don’t mind posting one on top of each RSD vid.”
I’m happy to as well, or anything else Rollo sees fit.
“Actually there are few pics of Luke in blazers because he deleted his old instagram account… Funny he chose that one for his old twitter avatar though?”
I know right, he’s probably gettin mad Twitter puss! Did you know Tyler used to wear PVC leather pants and mesh vests and New Rock boots?? Funny he chose to wear those in his old promo material…gotta be something suspicious there!
“He is now “rebranded”… for what purpose one wonders? [not you… your empty Kool-Aid cartons attest to that]”
Maybe, like most guys who go out infield, he started out thinking looks matter and then eventually learned “oh, you know what, I guess I don’t really need the blazer to get attraction”. You know, because he was a newbie at some point like the rest of us. Just like Tyler doesn’t still wear mesh PVC shirts…TYLER REBRANDED!! HE SHOULD KEEP WEARING THOSE THINGS!!!
“I guess maybe he broke up with his GF by now? Nice sentiment all the same…”
? What even IS this attack dude? Is Luke not allowed to have a girlfriend? Is he not allowed to be romantic with his girlfriend 3 years ago?
You talk so much about the omega gamma stuff but like, what do you think this looks like when you do this lol
“Not ALL the RSD videos have that issue (eg Max running after random chick doing daygame in some European city or whatever) but a lot of them do, especially a lot of RSD Luke’s stuff.”
Tyler’s infield is from all over. RSD does bootcamps ALL AROUND THE WORLD, these guys live out of hotels when they’re on tour. Does Sentient think they transport the mansion around the world to use? wtf?
The mansion is just for the Vegas Immersion program where students can spend a few months there sarging daily with constant coaching and the mansion looks pimp in advertising (and Tyler has a bunch of videos about how to be successful in business and work hard and network your way up and put in hours dedicated to your business, check out the “Truth About Success” series which I think ANY guy here would approve of whole-heartedly). And the instructors occasionally pass through Vegas and stay there for a bit to hang out but are otherwise travelling the world or living in their own places (Jeffy lives in San Francisco in a little apartment he does most of his videos in etc)
This is such a petty silly attack on them. Do you (Sentient) think that Tyler has his students in New York flying girls back to the mansion to get them? lol
Luke is focused 100% on Vegas Social Circle game, so lots of his personal infield isn’t very useful for a guy like hank or Culum to me, but as long as he teaches the students HOW to do it for themselves when they get back to their own city then cool (like that infield video I linked where Tyler is showing how to get access to the VIP guy’s table, which is the same thing Luke did except Luke did it a LOT and collected that guy’s number and used his pickup skills to introduce girls around and build up a huge social circle over a long period of time, like anyone here could do).
Fuck this is such like, negative low-value mindset shit. Have you (Sentient) never just gone out and MADE friends? And befriended higher value people and then socialized and introduced girls to them and vice-versa and collected numbers and set up parties/hangouts and befriended people and gotten to know them to the point where you can attend parties or events or get free drinks, VIP, etc just from being a fun social guy??
Is this such a foreign concept to everyone that it has to be some nefarious sneaky trick/scam???
Luke explains in one of his latest videos (WISH I COULD LINK IT) all about his free bottle service and who the girls he brings out with him are and how he meets them and how he networks and uses the social proof and connects other high-value guys etc
God it’s tempting to just give up on this place. I’m so tired of having to defend shit that anyone could just go look at for themselves or go try infield and see for themselves, and now I can’t even link a shitload of videos explaining and demonstrating this stuff, I have to type it all out while Sentient posts pictures of a cult suicide like that’s a valid argument.
“Sentient is basically saying that having RSD Luke’s game alone will not get you Luke’s results with chicks, not unless you ALSO have Luke’s social circles and access he’s cultivated over years of networking the Vegas scene.”
LUKE LITERALLY TALKS ABOUT THIS AND WARNS GUYS ABOUT IT IN HIS VIDEOS. Watch his videos, one of his recent ones he talks all about how he build his social connections up and that Tyler video I linked that started this whole fucking censorship debacle was showing a newbie being taught exactly how to DO the thing that Luke DID to cultivate and network his way into building social circles in that scene, so that ANYONE CAN DO IT.
LUKE’S ENTIRE SOCIAL CIRCLE GAME PRODUCT IS A STEP BY STEP OF HOW TO BUILD THE SAME TYPE OF SOCIAL CIRCLES HE HAS. What do you guys think the product is about??? That’s LITERALLY the purpose of it: teaching guys how to build the same type of social circles he’s built the same way he built them using stuff like the shit in that Tyler infield that Rollo censored.
Holy shit this is insane.
“And he’s saying that RSD don’t acknowledge this “boost” they get in a lot of their infield results (not all).”
That’s because Sentient is FULL OF SHIT. And you’re just believing him instead of looking into Luke’s videos for yourself (because to be fair, they’re long and most people have limited time to look into it lol) and seeing him acknowledge the boosts and TEACH guys how to BUILD those boosts for themselves.
“a newbie could ALSO spend years building his network and access to social circles and then he will of course do as well as Luke. ”
This is LITEARLLY WAHT LUKE TEACHES AND WHAT HIS PRODUCT IS AGHGHGHGHGHGH
“And Sentient is also saying that RSD is disingenuous for not acknowledging this boost”
THAT’S BECAUSE SENTIENT IS DISINGENOUS AND IS LYING TO YOU. Do you REALLY think Sentient has watched all of RSD’s content?? Do you REALLY think Sentient has ANY idea what they actually talk about in their FREE content let alone their actual products or bootcamps???
Do you REALLY think Luke doesn’t at some point mention “Just so you know, at YOUR shitty little city you won’t have the same type of girls, but you can still build a big social circle in your scene just like this” or that the students are SO RETARDED that they can’t figure out “hmm, Vegas has tons of hot playboy models, and my shitty little podunk hometown doesn’t have those, but if I say Routine XYZ then PLAYBOY MODELS WILL FALL FROM THE SKY IN MY SHITTY LITTLE LOCAL PUB”???
C’mon man…critical thinking skills and look at the content for yourself. Don’t even listen to ME about what they say, go see it for yourself!
“I would welcome Rollo’s input on the clout that party promoters have in Vegas… or guys hooked into media like Playboy have in Hollywood…”
I’d welcome both your input on how that has relevance when Max runs a bootcamp in EE or Tyler runs a bootcamp in Dallas.
Luke stays in Vegas but the RSD infield I post is from all over the fucking world. And Tyler even TALKS about getting recognized and the pros/cons and where/how it affects things etc but you guys wouldn’t know that ’cause you don’t watch their videos like the guys who sign up for bootcamps etc do.
Such an embarrassing lack of research. One big game of “telephone” (“well *I* heard they do this and this”). This is just absurd. Especially from Red Pill guys who of ALL people I would expect to do proper homework given how much the MSM etc misrepresent the entire Manosphere/Red Pill sphere.
Any comment on our group opinion of that article you linked? Are all the guys who’ve said that article is bullshit wrong? Do you understand why we say it’s wrong? Do you get my point about the lack of quality of other content when EVERYONE here can tell you that article is garbage but they don’t say that about RSD content I post? Are they just all brainwashed and going to kool-aid suicide themselves? They all posted before I even posted my rebuttal to the article so it wasn’t MY reply influencing them all calling that article out as shit.
So: any thoughts on the feedback we gave you on that article? Like what does your brain think when you see our responses to it?
“Lets just say that it would take a lot more than a casual “he’s not from this country” for a guy like the one in the RSD video posted not to get run off a bottle service table.”
Have you TRIED it? Have you NEVER met an alpha dude infield who WANTS to teach you the ropes of “how to be a man”? That guy is literally BLAXIMUS. He realizes the kid is socially retarded and he gives him a pep talk about learning how to be a man and the man code and shit. SO MANY GUYS infield are like this.
Do you guys just not socialize with anyone in these venues except people you know??
“but they do this to impress the girls they invite to their table or they brought in with them”
A lot of guys just get bottle service for the fuck of it, or because they have connections, and because the girls enjoy it, without caring about the girls themselves. Do you guys not hang out with guys who get bottle service etc?? I was hanging with an old social circle of guys who are all making bank now (doctors, lawyers, etc finally working professionally lol) and they’d literally just buy a dozen beers and pass them around to anyone in our group, anyone around us, whatever, no one cares because they have money or connections (like knowing the bartender, managers, etc and get stuff comped).
You yourself, Rollo, if you had bottle service at your event, would probably act EXACTLY like this guy. Would you run some socially awkward guy off from talking to your bottle girls when you’re running some event and have a bunch of free shit? Especially if the kid apologized? You’d be like “GET OUT OF HERE PUNK I’M GONNA KICK YOUR ASS!!!!”?
How is this stuff so suspicious to you guys??
“How hard do you think it would be for a guy with Owen’s means to purchase that table or several more just like it in advance to shoot a video about how a guy with average Game can swoop into a paid for bottle service table and be the cool guy?”
sigh…this is why it’s so hard to discuss this shit with guys who don’t go out and regularly TRY this stuff.
Do you think they don’t have guys do this in ANY OTHER CITY except Vegas/LA? You think they aren’t doing this in EE etc too?
“especially if he’s got some imaginable social proof”
You mean like Tyler TEACHES the kid how to do?
“Again, I don’t know for sure, but I would love to see something like this go down at a Nikki Beach club with Owen and students shirtless and in shorts trying to work this angle.”
I’d love to see it too. If I see infield of it I’ll be sure to post it (ALTHOUGH THAT COULD BE CONSIDERED AN ADVERTISEMENT).
“but I was wondering how many RSD examples it would generate from you rather than your own interpretation of it.”
Do you understand that what RSD is teaching is not a theory, but what happens infield? My “own interpretation” is the same “interpretation” that anyone who goes out infield and tests this stuff finds, which is what RSD is teaching.
Do you think that “passing a shit-test spikes attraction” is “RSD’s interpretation” or “my interpretation”? When Hank or Culum go out and spike attraction by passing a shit-test, are they just “using RSD examples instead of their own interpretation”??
This is unreal.
“@Rollo – I didn’t see the original vid with Tyler’s student (only the description), but is it fair to say that your position is essentially that it is *possible* to do what he did, but it is likely to be a lot more difficult than the video made it look (with the student’s level of social skills/game), and therefore you are a bit suspicious that it was rigged?”
Type “rsd tyler table game” into YouTube. You SHOULD watch it because you can actually apply it. I literally posted it Friday early evening originally FOR you, hank, etc everyone going out (I tagged you guys) because I wanted you to see it and try it out this weekend, till Rollo nuked it and now here we are.
It’s something you can EASILY try, and it’s not even JUST for tables/bottle service, it’s for ANY mixed set where you want access to the guy’s girls. The concepts Tyler is teaching about giving value and calibrating to the reactions etc (Rollo: Tyler ADDRESSES negative/bad/aggressive reactions in that video and talks about how to recover or avoid them, but you watched the whole video so you knew that right?)
“One question Rollo – why would the club run guys off from bottle service tables? I see why (from the clubs perspective) it is good to have girls who will make the rich guy spend more to impress them. But if the rich guy is cool with having Tyler & Co at his table, why would the club run them off? Like what do they lose?”
When you’re ONE DUDE with 5-10 girls at your table, you WANT guys to entertain the girls for you. You can’t fuck ALL of them and you WANT the girls to have fun and meet guys. Those girls aren’t there JUST for the free drinks, they’re there to meet guys too.
The kid was clearly a newbie and Tyler has good subcomms and helped smooth things over (the same way I would have, pace the guy’s reality (“sorry this guy is being weird”), seek a commonality (“you from LA? oh right on man me too I love it too”), pump the guy’s ego (getting him to teach the kid the “man code” and giving him huge props for it so he can feel like a boss expert), and then join him in teaching the newbie (“OR he could even BRING YOU girls, to give you VALUE back”) which the other alpha social guy agrees with.
Have you guys never had alpha dudes infield be NICE to you??
In fact that guy would be more likely to tell TYLER or some AVERAGE PUA to fuck off, VS a guy who’s obviously a little awkward with interacting in that situation. Cool people LOVE to bring other people up to their level. I can’t even count how many random dudes I’ve given pep talks to at the bar just ’cause they’ve looked uncomfortable/nervous and then just randomly introduced girls passing by to.
What you guys are talking about is such a shallow cartoon character version of the types of guys out there.
If Blaximus had bottle service with 10 girls and a couple of his buddies and like, Hank started talking to one of his girls and then realized he was being rude and went over to shake Blax’s hand and introduce himself and apologize and SJF was beside Hank and said to Blaximus “sorry man, he’s new to this I’m showing him the ropes”, you think Blaximus would be like “GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE YOU FUCKING SCRUBS, WHERE’S MY SECURITY, I’M RICH AS FUCK AND HAVE MORE GIRLS THAN I KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH TONIGHT BUT GET OUT OF HERE!!!!!! MY IMAGE!!!”
No way, Blaximus would do EXACTLY what this guy did, he’d teach him some man-code shit about how to interact with other men and he’d be PROUD to be able to be a bit of a masculine influence for an awkward kid and he’d be happy for the kid if he learned to be a little more alpha and better at interacting with men because of him.
By your guys’ logic Blaximus would just be a petty aggressive scarcity-mindset asshole.
Hell, Blax would STOP security from throwing the kid out, just SO he could teach him how to interact with other men in a more positive value-giving way.
Ya there ARE bottle/VIP guys who are assholes, and Tyler talks about that in the video when he talks about the 4 types of guys/reactions you’ll run into when you do this, but a LOT of guys especially in high-end venues are just COOL GUYS that want OTHER PEOPLE TO BE COOL.
Your guys’ view is such a negative mindeset.
This is like when people say “rich people want to keep everyone else poor!!!” No, a LOT of them want to help other people build themselves up to their level, that’s why there’s charity and angel investors and shit. When you have value you WANT to help other people have value like you because you feel good and want THEM to feel good.
But in your guys’ view of the world ALL of these guys are just negative possessive assholes and Blax, Rollo, etc will call over security to kick the guy out the second he dares to talk to one of their girls.
YOU guys aren’t even like that, but you just label every other guy that way so Tyler MUST be paying guys off etc What a fucked up view of the world.
There are tons of cool guys, that’s part of why I originally called it a miracle to capture that shit on film because the guy starts out pissed and then turns into a coach for the kid. That’s such a fucking AMAZING little snippet of what can happen when you sarge and how a lot of the myths about how these guys will all get in your face and punch your lights out and get you thrown out etc are just fear-mongering from guys who don’t try this stuff regularly.
“@YaReally, do you only ctrl+f for your own name when you check back for comments here?”
“I reposted your original comments 2 days ago.”
Didn’t see it ’cause we were already on the next page after the deletion. Thanks, I guess? Hopefully the guys I tagged in it decide to read this thread despite the new article up and jump to the end to see that it’s back and then go back to it to watch it and read what I wrote.
“surveillance staff that watch for guys doing exactly what happens in this video.”
They watch for guys who help girls have a fun night and bring girls to the table guys?
Did you even watch the video? Did you see what happened when they befriended the guy after talking to the girls at his couch for 30 seconds (I’m sure security was on the way “HOLY SHIT THAT GUY SAID HELLO TO THOSE GIRLS RUSH HIM NOW!!!”) before he went over to the guy, shook his hand and engaged him, to where the guy approved of him.
Then did you see what happened or did you stop watching?
Did Tyler and the newbie start chugging the guy’s booze? No.
What they did was go to some RANDOM GIRLS standing around and BRING THEM OVER to the table guy, and then told the GIRLS “go ahead” as in “go ahead and have a drink” WITH that guy’s approval because the booze is FOR GIRLS.
Did you just turn the video off after the first infield snippet and decide “they probably sat down on the guy’s couch and took a swig from his bottle and then tried to grope all the girls”?
They didn’t even USE the table, as soon as the guy approved of him they went to go collect some girls to BRING HIM. The random girls on the floor get to go to VIP and meet high-value guys, the VIP guy gets girls brought to him (which are who the booze and table is FOR), and Tyler and the newbie build more rapport with the guy because they gave him value.
So which part of that is surveillance watching for? The part where he shakes the guy’s hand and the guy pats him on the back teaching him man stuff and says “you can use my table and talk to my girls, you have my permission kid”? Is THAT where security swoops in and drags him off?
Or is it when they approach the random girls on the non-VIP floor area? THAT’S what they’re watching for? They’re gonna throw him out for talking to some random girls? Wow they must throw out half the guys in the club every night.
Oh wait, they’d probably throw him out for BRINGING GIRLS OVER TO THEIR VIP GUEST. Ya, what ASSHOLES, bringing girls to their guest so their guest has more fun and the girls have more fun. That’s definitely gonna get security throwing them out.
I have a feeling you didn’t even watch the full video at all.
“Yes, there are cool guys who want to be everyone’s friend and honestly they are very easy to spot in a club/event. They buy rounds, they don’t want to be an asshole, they’re outgoing, boisterous and as I said generous because that generosity they believe is DHV and social proof. They don’t get hostile because they think the girls in their circle will see it as negative aggression.”
So this guy in the video that was friendly to the newbie could have been exactly this guy you’re describing. HUH. Thanks for proving my point. They picked a dude who looked like he’s not going to get aggressive, and he DID get mad at first but then they smoothed it over using classic Juggler style “pace their reality, find a commonality, pump their state” shit.
“I don’t need to TRY to do this because it’s my job to do exactly this cold approach social circle game.”
That wasn’t social circle game. That was a random newbie in a club approaching a table. Have you been a guy with zero status not knowing anyone in the club and approached VIP tables?
“I also know there is a point where that guy does one of two things; he either closes himself down, says fuck this shit and moves off to another club when there are no viable or interested women in him”
Did it look to you, because I’m sure you watched the video, like that guy would have problems finding a girl to fuck that night? Did that table service guy look like some sad dude? He wasn’t even TALKING to the girls at his table, that’s how little fucks he gave. Just like my buddies passing out beers and letting girls drink their bottles etc, as long as everyone is having fun it’s cool and the guy who set the table up doesn’t give a shit, he’s GOT girls he can call up.
“or he gets hostile when the guy he invited into his circle swoops the woman he was sarging.”
And how does he react when the guy he invited BRINGS MULTIPLE GIRLS TO HIM and then hits on one of the girls he ISN’T sarging AND helps wingman him WITH the girl he IS sarging? Please inform us how that goes down and what part of that would have the guy start throwing fists around.
Is it the “having more girls at my table now” part? Is it the “having someone give me props and DHV me to this girl I’m trying to get that’s at my table” part? Is it the “guy making the rest of the girls laugh and have fun and staying away from the girl that I’m working on” part? Which of those parts is the part where the guy will punch him in the face. Serious question.
“He is now full of liquor and reverts to “likes to fight” guy. Kind of like what you see in that one Tyler vid where he almost gets his ass kicked in the bathroom.”
You mean the guy who caught Tyler showing his DICK to his little sister? Ya, let’s equate those two situations for sure.
“You know, I’ve got a gig coming up next Thursday I may just take some infield shots to show you what goes on.”
You know what would be better? Disguise yourself and try getting into the VIP area.
Also note that in the video the VIP area isn’t roped off in some far away impossible to get to spot, it’s just a VIP area in the middle of the club that people can easily access. Not one of the cabanas behind a rope or some shit, where OBVIOUSLY you would have to be more creative to get anywhere near.
“That guy might drop $1K on that table, but that GM wants him to stay at that club, with his friends and keep spending so they are going to ensure he does.”
You know what’s a good way to do that? When random guys shake his hand and then go COLLECT GIRLS FROM THE FLOOR AND BRING THEM TO HIM AND HIS FRIENDS AT THE TABLE AND INTRODUCE THEM ALL.
Like I say, I don’t think you watched more than the first couple minutes of that video. Or watched it at all, tbh.
@Rollo @Culum Straun @Sentient
Hope you don’t mind this video Rollo since it’s directly relevant to making my point since you guys won’t go look this shit up yourselves:
OH LOOK, it’s Luke explaining exactly how he built his social circle (TO GUYS IN NYC, NOT VEGAS), and how the type of neighborhood you live in will affect the type of girls and guys you can meet and build into a social circle, and how to give and spread value to befriend these people in these scenes and how Vegas is different from normal cities, and how Social Circle differs from Cold Approach and the pros/cons (Social Circle being much easier).
Since no one will actually watch it before they talk shit and spread more misinformation lol he talks about:
– “I go to cool parties, where the lowest quality person there is like the top tier of people you’ll talk to in weeks…where your worst game THERE will get you better results than your best game in shittier areas”
– identify what areas have the best nightlife to try to live near and build your circles in…”there’s tons of ways to do that, through other guys doing pickup, guys on the forum, promoters and hosts, befriend bartenders and bar owners. It’s amazing how many guys I see that don’t take advantage of that, it’s SUPER simple.
– “some of the areas I go in, they play a type of music I don’t even like. The places with really shitty house music is where all the attractive girls go to. But I’m not there for the music, I don’t even think about it. The places I go to have super pretty girls and there’s like a 100 ft chandelier coming down from the ceiling and shit. That club plays the most horrendous music ever, but I’m not there for the music I’m there because it’s the hardest club to get into in Vegas.
So I go there 2 or 3 nights a week, it’s absolutely impossible, even for me with a lot of connections it’s STILL a pain in the ass. It’s almost like a track meet where you have a herd of cattle…there’s like 10 different stages of line before you actually get into the venue. But once you’re THERE, EVERY girl is super receptive, they’re very NICE to you, the GUYS are all super cool, you just walk up to the table and stand at the table and they’re like “you want a free drink?” They’re extremely nice because they know the shit that you went through to just get through that door, so you’re just a part of the club. (he means you have status just by BEING there, which is what happens at high-end scene parties, you wouldn’t BE there if you were low status)
Whereas if you go to a local college bar, where it’s SUPER easy to get into, THAT’S where the girls are the BITCHIEST, that’s where the guys are in their own cliques. (because ANYONE can get in, so you could be low-value)”
– he talks about bringing a Vegas immersion student in to show him how he gets past the line quickly (MAKING SURE THE STUDENT UNDERSTANDS WHAT HE’S DOING AND WHY HE GETS IN AND HOW HIS NETWORKING/SOCIAL CIRCLE STUFF INFLUENCES THAT, INSTEAD OF LIKE, WHATEVER SENTIENT THINKS, TRICKING THE STUDENT INTO THINKING HE’S JUST MAGICALLY GETTING IN lol)
– “you wanna find out where the one main spot is for each night and you want make sure that’s your spot. Whatever city I’m in, I’m in the exact same nightclubs.”
– “you have to know where the good places to go are. Most of the girls who are my friends or girlfriends, if I didn’t know that (ie – be able to show them a fun time), it wouldn’t last. The very basic fact of knowing where’s cool to go and when and being in the know, like every other guy they’re dating already KNOWS the manager and already KNOWS the owner of these places, for the GIRLS, they’re just sort of plugging themselves into it.”
– “the best time to approach these girls are on industry nights, Sun Mon Tues Wed, sometimes Thurs depending on the city. If you just do THAT MUCH by ITSELF, you’re going to instantly attract girls that are like 2 points hotter than what you’d normally attract. You’d instantly be networking with better business connections. You’re always going to have better social circle building success on those nights.”
So he’s TEACHING guys how to FIND the hot girls and getting them to focus on socializing on industry nights to BUILD the same kind of connections he has in Vegas.
Do you guys GET why I say none of you watch this shit and Sentient is full of shit about what he says Luke teaches??
All you have to do is watch these videos. And this is FREE.
– “my favorite trick for getting into those venues, is asking promoters from a different city if they know anybody in the venue I’m trying to go to in my current city (aka networking via promoters, which you can meet all over the place depending on the city you’re in and the type of venues you go to…there’s a city I used to sarge in where my buddies and I walk in for free everywhere (cutting in front of groups of girls lol funniest shit ever watching their faces) and get free drinks etc because we just know most of the staff of the nightlife (and it’s incestuous so a bartender from one place will end up bartending at another place a year later etc), and we did it without blowing money or buying VIP service or anything, we were just social and fun and spread value to lots of people in the venues…because SMART club owners know that while we aren’t directly spending money, when we make the girls and guys around us all have more fun, THEY spend more money and THEY talk the club up to their friends and THEY all come back again to spend MORE money)
– “I’ll message random promoters off Instagram in LA, Dallas, Miami, whatever, that I don’t even KNOW “hey, I’m in NYC, do you happen to know anybody you can hook me up with or intro me to?” I’m gonna get like a 10% maybe 20% success rate on that and one of those is going to go “oh ya, my boy works here, he gets lit, message him” and I go “oh sweet, would you mind shooting a double-text for me” (meaning a group text) and I send him “sweet thanks I’m walking up to the door now, I appreciate it”. It happens THAT simply. You can mix this up it doesn’t have to be these words exactly just this general strategy. You should be sending a ton of these, it takes like 10 minutes to send 20 of these. Super simple. You can just go on social media and find all the info you ever need to do this. Everything is on instagram, they make it so simple for you.”
– “I use the best promoter in LA, been using him for 4 years and I’ve never even met him before, I have no idea who he is. I walk up to the rope and I just say “I’m with (name)” and I’ll just walk until my stomach hits the rope, and the guy will go “woah woah woah, WHO?” and I say “(NAME), what the fuck dude?? What’s wrong?” (frame control) and then the guy goes “oh my bad, okay” and I’m like “JESUS CHRIST” and he opens the rope and walk in. I don’t have a lot of other strategies in LA because that just worked from day one so I just keep doing it. I’ve done it dressed up, dressed bad, doesn’t matter.”
– “When I get IN the club I’m going to go to the table NEXT to (promoter name)’s table and I’m going to make friends with them and do “table game” and I’m just going to introduce people to eachother. At that point you’re already in the highest value area so girls will come up to you.”
– “The girls are friendly because all the guys there are high-value guys, and me. And I just tell girls that I’m poor and shy and have no job and live at home with my mom and don’t have a car…the more poor that I SAY I am, the richer she THINKS I am. I’m being somewhat playful but I’m also just amazed at the situation I’m in.”
– “Literally you want to know how to get into half these places? Just (dress like a douchebag), walk up like you expect to get in, pretend you have no idea what’s happening and you’re aloof, and they’ll just let you in. You guys are too SMART to get in, it doesn’t make sense to you to try that.”
– “While everyone else is DHVing I’m DLVing and the more I DLV the higher value the girls think I must be because I must be being coy.”
– “So once I get in there I don’t even really have to DO anything, because I already have value to the girls just being IN there. And I don’t have to do Comfort because Comfort’s already done.”
– “So Step 1: contact other cities’ promoters, ask them if they know someone, they ALWAYS know somebody. You’re gonna have a low percentage rate on that, 10% might get back to you and the rest will be like “Who are you?” “Do I know you?” and then you just go “lol we raged at (and then say whatever club it says on their Instagram that they work at) a few months ago, I barely remember ANYTHING but you’re epic bro keep it up”
fucking lol That’s some smart shit.
– “THEN you’re gonna get like a 50% conversion. The reason this works well is you’re playing to the risk aversion. It’s much riskier for them to FORGET about someboy that they ACTUALLY partied with and somebody that could help them with some sort of business purpose, than for them to accidentally make an introduction to somebody that has no connection to them. It doesn’t HURT them if that happens so it’s a zero sum situation, it doesn’t hurt them to pass you along an introduction to another promoter they know in your city, but it COULD be advantageous to them. And it WOULD hurt them to forget somebody they partied with which happens to them all the time. So you’re gonna find that these guys message you like you’re bros (this has been my experience when I HAVE dealt with promoters in the past lol)”
– then he teaches everyone how promoters talk to eachother lol funny fucking impression…”so then I just started doing the SAME THING. I just walk up to them and I’m like BRO!! WHAT’S UP!! MY MAN!! and he’s like O SHIT THIS FUCKIN GUY!!” (when he has no idea who Luke is)
– “you just have to know some of the vernacular. So in a high-end city you go “Bro can you write me a slip?” That’ll work 25-30% of the time. Because that’s the right verbiage. If you go up to them and say “could you happen to let me in? because I know this person and this person…” they’re literally going to think that you just read a PR piece. The right verbiage is “writing a slip”, there’s no limit to how many slips they can write. Now NYC doesn’t really have slips as much, but you also don’t really have cover here.”
– “Sometimes I’ll change the name on my phone to the name of a promoter working that night (find out via social media) and I’ll just text myself “hey fam how u been” and then I delete the duplicate to myself and respond to myself “it’s been good bro! i’m in town u mind if I swing by?” “omg i’d love for you to swing by, come to the owners table at (club name)” “u sure its not too much trouble?” and I have to keep deleting the extra txts because I’m just txting myself, and then I just save it with the promoter’s name and then half the time you go to a club and try to just walk in saying “I know (name)” they’ll say “show me a text” That’s their robotic line they have to say. Then I say “oh shit I don’t know if–actually you know what lemme check…(pull out my phone) okay sec lemme just find it” and they’ll be like “ya whatever” thinking I’m not going to be able to find it and then I hold it up “here it is!” and we just have this long thread of texts between me and his boss and it’s just me texting myself”
So there you go.
Luke giving the entire internet (FOR FREE), a bunch of strategies to get into these venues and get around these girls and bluff their way into the scenes and how the psychology works and how social circle affects his results and his access LAYING IT ALL BARE ON THE TABLE.
Like wtf do guys think he’s teaching lol He has a whole product dedicated to this stuff, this is just a little 25 min free clip. And Sentient’s gonna come along saying “HE TRICKS THEM ALL INTO THINKING THEY’LL GET PLAYBOY MODELS AND WALK INTO CLUBS LIKE HE DOES AND DOESN’T TELL THEM IT’S BECAUSE HE HAS A SOCIAL NETWORK THERE AND THEY’RE ALL TOO RETARDED TO FIGURE THAT OUT EVEN IF HE DIDN’T TELL THEM!!!!!!!”
Holy shit he even tells them to expect low success rates from the Instagram promoter path and the differences between a college bar and a high-end Vegas venue, and the difference in the crowds there and how that will affect guys’ results, and how to work their way into the industry scene via industry nights, etc etc
waitaminute…that’s the EXACT SHIT HE AND THE REST OF THE GUYS DID TO GET WHERE THEY ARE. WOAHHHH MIND BLOWN. It’s almost like anyone can do this AND they just TELL you how instead of whatever Sentient and Rollo think a bootcamp is…I guess you guys think they just walk students around the bar showing off how many people they know (or pay to pretend to know MORE LIKELY) them and then hire a hooker to fuck the student so he writes a good review.
Gotta be THAT, it HAS to be shady and sneaky and some kind of trick, because GOD FORBID you can just socialize and give value and good emotions to people and they’ll reciprocate. That’s apparently a foreign concept to you guys lol This whole thread has made me realize that very few of you would ACTUALLY be fun to party with, because for you to have the negative “everyone is taking value everyone is selfish and out for themselves” etc mindsets you guys have about this stuff, like, that tells me what you’re like when you go out. That’s a huge surprise to me, tbh.
Like these things SHOULDN’T seem like tricks or magic to social outgoing cool guys who regularly socialize and meet new people and give them value and network and connect people and spread value to everyone and give girls to guys and wing guys they’ve just met and help everyone have a fun night before focusing on the girl they want to take home.
I would expect newbies not to get some of this but not some of the names I’ve seen shitting on this stuff. Very surprised and a little disappointed.
All this shit is there for anyone to watch, for free…but it takes a lot longer to form an opinion when you actually do your research instead of just posting shitty meme pics and talking about what you THINK they teach and jacking eachother’s hater-boners off as you discourage guys from checking out stuff that would help them like this Luke video I just quoted the fuck out of that anyone can go apply this weekend if they want. Anyone can go hit up an industry night this week and start networking and building a social circle like Luke’s…it won’t have playboy models in it but it’ll have some fucking hot girls and some fucking cool guys who are happy that you aren’t some negative value-taking anti-social guy who assumes they’re going to be assholes and bitches to you lol
Also very disappointed with the lack of research by people I’d expect to do research considering how much of the rest of society slanders the Red Pill Manosphere etc communities with false assumptions and not doing their research on what we ACTUALLY talk about instead of the boogyman myths they build up about it.
Any of the haters accusing them of lying and paying everyone off etc going to go try any of these strategies out for a few months? Of course no one will, it’s a lot easier to just circle-jerk about how this couldn’t possibly work because you did some stellar OBSERVING in a venue and then filled the rest in with cartoon character versions of what you theorize would happen. lol
@Sentient @Rollo @Culum
Again hope you don’t mind but you guys not watching these before you make up shit about what they actually teach forces me to link this stuff:
O SHIT, A DOUBLE-COMBO, LUKE *AND* PAPA, doing exactly what Sentient says they DON’T do: describing EXACTLY how to build a social circle like they have, from scratch, in whatever city you’re in (NO YOU WONT GET PLAYBOY MODELS IN SOME PODUNK TOWN IN WISCONSIN).
Papa talks about how he build his way up, collecting numbers, rolodex, tapping into local groups (event groups, business groups, nightlife staff, influencers, etc), how to approach them, how to build rapport with them, how to use their connections to build your way up to a huge epic social circle.
They lay it all out step by step explaining how to leverage all this shit. It’s almost like Sentient hasn’t actually watched anything, shocker.
He talks about networking his way up to meeting minor celebs and befriending them and doing business with them to get access to bigger celebs etc He doesn’t pretend that you can just message Dan Bilzerian and be like “hey bro wanna hang out?” like Luke can at this point. He makes it clear that he used business promotions to do it (because Papa IS the business end of RSD) while Luke fills in the gaps of how YOU can do it without the business stuff (just like that last video and a bunch of his other videos).
He talks about throwing dinner parties and using business connections to build RSD and build his social circles and networks. Stuff that he knows isn’t directly applicable to a lot of guys but he’s not PRETENDING to the students that he didn’t leverage a bunch of shit to get the connections he has.
He talks about building a brand and social media presence and leveraging that. And Luke brings it down into something more relatable for the average guy to apply to his life because he’s probably not going to start up a big youtube channel and shit, and he talks about collecting numbers and networking and setting up dinners and get togethers and club events to give value etc
Papa talks about giving value by just being yourself and giving people good emotions without wanting anything in return and the reciprocation that happens from that. And when you attend an event figure out who the most connected people are and use your pickup skills to make your way to them (that local celeb might not care who you are if you walk up solo but if you open some girls in front of them, get them laughing, then introduce them to him, suddenly they’re more happy to meet you)
He talks all about his connections, how he met Tony Robbins through Christina Aguelera bla bla No hiding anything like Sentient is implying. Luke talks about taking notes on people to try to remember them easier and build rapport easier using his notes, all stuff normal guys can do (and I’ve done, and you should have done at some point just to experiment with it).
So much just negative tearing down around here by guys who don’t even look at the content or teaching quality of what they’re slandering, it’s fucking crazy. This is why PUAs don’t come to the Manosphere, it’s just this shitty negative bubble of value-taking scarcity mindsets and projection.
This one is Luke describing exactly how he builds new social circles in new cities. Where to meet girls/guys during the day to find out where the hot spots are and network with them (“oh hey maybe I’ll see you there later” to some girls/guys he opens on a Friday afternoon), how to give value to guys who already have money/girls/etc (spoiler alert: by bonding with them over rapport/experiences aka Juggler method shit), then go to the clubs people recommended and you’ll probably run into them and have social proof, use that to leverage into merging sets and introducing people and collecting numbers.
He talks about how he uses his Vegas connections to get him into clubs all around the world and how Vegas gives him a huge advantage that way, not hiding or lying or tricking guys about it.
One more, skip to 20:10:
At 20:10 holy shit he talks about using social circle game to gain confidence when he started out…but Sentient said RSD manipulates guys and tricks them into not realizing that they won’t get the same internals Luke has from a weekend long bootcamp, what’s going on? It’s almost like Sentient just lies about shit.
Then he talks about how he started out just going out alone, then going out with one girl, then getting two girls to come out with him, then five girls etc to the point where every Day2 he had he would have a group Day2 every Thursday where the point was just to have these big group dates with his wing seeing how many girls they could get to show up at the same time and they realized the girls don’t even get mad, the preselection etc boosts their value and fight for your attention etc etc
He talks about building everything up from scratch. There’s no lying or hiding or anything here…they are teaching (even in just these FREE videos) how to network your way into Rollo’s scene or some other high-end scene if you WANT.
At 28:55 – “I haven’t been here in Seattle in maybe 5 years…but just in the short time that I’ve been here already, in a couple of hours, I’m already starting to build a social circle that I can use for the weekend. In Hawaii the social circle I used for that entire week, I built it in about 3-4 hours that first night I was there. And then I just hung out with those people on the off-nights from teaching program because of that. So it doesn’t have to be this long-term approach, you can get it started in several hours.”
And the big reveal holy shit the top secret stuff where he admits he just blows all his RSD money to pay for this huge illusion to trick guys into being sucked into bootcamps for life:
38:50 – “I have these Wednesday parties for the past maybe 9 months. We have 15-20 girls that come with us, we try to create as much of a shitshow as possible, the girl comes out with our free bottles on a boat and the girl sits in the boat and one of the girls pours champagne all over herself and they give us these bottles which…we’re a PUA group so 90% of us don’t even drink so they just keep bringing bottles on the hour and they just fill up the boat with bottles we don’t care about which is kind of funny, sparklers and all this crazy shit and we create a high barrier for entry at our table so that anyone we introduce the girls to, all they have to do just be normal because doing too much will come off try-hard because we’re already a shitshow of value.”
“We have private security guards around the table doing this for free because they just want to be around the shitshow and the girls, it doesn’t cost us anything. And what ends up happening is if you’re just AT that table, you get attraction. The table is a euphamism for any high-value area, it doesn’t have to be a bottle service area.”
He talks about how he networked his way into using the back of a stripclub for RSD stuff and now he knows all the strippers and has banged some of them and they have to come out with them to party a couple times a week.
Tyler lays it flat out at 42:00 – “Have you guys seen it when he’s at the club and all the girls have RSD LUKE on their shirts? Isn’t it a little funny, like do you guys see Luke teaching and there’s like a harem of women wearing RSD Luke shirts and then they’re watching his Snapchat and he’s kicking it with people like Dan Bilzerian like waterskiing with him and stuff like that…like do you guys just think that RSD is SO AWESOME that Luke is like Tom Cruise or Leo Dicaprio level just by his association to RSD and THAT’S how this is happening? Because we’re like a fucking superhero or something? Because it’s really cool if you think that lol that’s a big compliment.
But it’s happening because we’re just some dudes on YouTube that a lot of people couldn’t give a fuck about. He’s doing this in a way that’s relatable to people, there’s no reason you couldn’t be doing this if you wanted to and teaches you how to do it.”
Luke: “Most of that stuff, it costs almost ZERO DOLLARS. The people I’m doing this with, well, 100% of them make more money than I do, have access to hotter girls than I do, it’s funny, IN these circles there’s no value I can add to these people that way”
Then he talks about how he met Dan Bilzerian and how it took a few times to build a connection with him to where he hangs out with him.
At 1:03:00 there’s some infield footage of him with Dan and a bunch of girls and they all hit a taco place together and he talks about how to talk to hot girls (be sexual and raunchy they love it because they’re confident/sexual/comfortable with that shit because so much of their life involves their looks and sexual value).
But as soon as you see all the bikini chicks talking about eating eachother’s tacos with him and Dan, STOP WATCHING BECAUSE THE LAST FEW MINUTES IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR HIS PRODUCT AND YOU SHOULD NOT EVER PAY FOR PICKUP SHIT AND ROLLO AND THE RATIONAL MALE DO NOT ENDORSE RSD OR RSD LUKE OR ANY RSD PRODUCTS
The only reason I’m linking this is because I can’t find footage of Krauser hanging with Dan Bilzerian and a bunch of bikini girls while he breaks down exactly how to build social circles and network your way into situations like that. Rollo could you please record yourself picking up one of your bottle models and explaining for us how Vegas clubs work so I can link your infield footage and in-depth explanations on it instead of this crappy Luke promotional scam video that’s trying to manipulate men with this free content that has no value?
And THIS is why I said “don’t listen to Sentient, do your own research into what they ACTUALLY teach”. Get it? Sentient LIES because he doesn’t give a shit if guys learn how to build better social circles and get access to hotter girls, he’s just here to wave his e-dick around and put up obstacles to actual discussion and education. You could apply any of this stuff this weekend if you wanted to, but listening to Sentient and Rollo you would never even look at this.
SOMEONE who’s actually going out please make this worth my typing it up lol
The hard part for men to understand is that women are happy WHEN they’re unhappy and that they’re unhappy BECAUSE they’re happy. They LIKE feeling unhappy. There’s a reason rom-coms have a generic misunderstanding conflict in the middle of them. There’s a reason they eagerly get out the Kleenex and voluntarily put in their DVD copy of The Notebook for the dozenth time.
Society has bubble-taped the world around them (from socially conditioning men to overall societal traditions) to try to keep them from getting their feels hurt, but without bad feels they can’t appreciate the good feels so they purposely seek out and/or create bad feels.
Why are you hitting your head? Because it feels so good when I stop.
Like Julien says: they want the FULL RANGE of emotions. Not just the good emotions.
dropped a bunch of replies to people (esp the guys looking for sarging help, Black Pill, Culum, etc) at the end of the last thread just now.
“Or to put it another way, a hypothetical married James doesn’t have to be an ultimate Total Alpha D00D 24/7 to Joan, he just has to be more Alpha and more “present” than the men in her past. Like the old joke about the bear; “I don’t have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun YOU!”.”
Which brings us to 2016, where that near-virgin Joan with a smartphone and internet has UNLIMITED options coming at her from all angles 24/7, and those options are putting their best profile forward…their Facebook/OKCupid/Tinder/etc profile isn’t pics of them sitting around on the couch watching TV, it’s them on their one waterskiing trip they’ve ever gone on in their life back when they had a 6-pack and their top hobby listed is “waterskiing”, trying to suggest that their life is full of exciting adventure and if she gets with him he’ll take her waterskiing and more every week, way more fun than her boring ol’ husband she’s out of the New Relationship Energy stage with and who’s been kind of depressed about work stuff lately and complains a bit more than he used to because he’s getting comfortable (he Deeply Converted her after all, he can slack off on the burden of performance thing now since she’s Deeply Converted(TM)), he sure complains more than this waterskiing 6-pack Dan Bilzerian looking Alpha profile guy probably complains (she doesn’t know how much he complains because she hasn’t dated him yet, but he probably doesn’t complain at all, because all his Facebook posts are inspiring and positive and her Hypergamy WANTS to believe he doesn’t complain because it HOPES he’s a higher-value man).
At the bar the other night, 1am comes around, 2 cougars, probably married/divorced with kids, plop down in a corner and whip out their phones and spend the next hour on Tinder, swiping through jacked dudes and comparing guys and messaging dudes on Tinder, in a bar, full of horny dudes to pick from (but that don’t know how to approach them). They didn’t even look up from their phones, like it wasn’t “swipe swipe swipe, put the phone down sip a drink and talk to their girlfriend and look around the room or go dance”, it was 100% glued to their screens like the rest of the room doesn’t exist.
Watch for it when you’re out and you’ll see it. About an hour before last call pay attention to the girls and you’ll notice the smartphones come out en masse as they start lining up their booty calls (exes, fuckbois, fuckbuddies, Tinder/dating site guys, etc) for after the bar. They’d RATHER some cool high-value guys approach them IN the bar, especially before they start sending out their booty call feeler texts, but if those guys decide to not approach or don’t know how to, well why should they go home alone when they spent $200 getting their hair/nails/outfits/etc done up? They won’t be HAPPY about having to resort to it, but they have no reason to spend the last hour at the bar interacting with other people like back in 2005 lol
In the past, James would only have to “outrun” Joan with the low N-Count’s one other man she’s ever been with and maybe a couple guys she has a crush on or dated at some point or whatever. But now James, especially if Joan is a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016, has a shitload of men (real (her massive collection of guys/orbiters/etc she can keep in touch with via social media, texting, facebook, etc) and imaginary (the alpha profile guy that's putting on a show like he's Dan Bilzerian)) to outrun…and she'll collect more of them as the years go on, especially when the New Relationship Energy dies off and she starts seeing more flaws in her current guy and she gets closer to the wall and is instinctively seeking out validation to still feel like she has value so she signs up for a secret Ashley Madison account or goes on a Girl's Night Out etc
Once her value completely tanks as she fully hits the wall and becomes low value in the SMV and those guys stop paying attention to her, the guy she's with suddenly doesn't have as much to "outrun". But a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016? lol
"Lately RSD has been referencing TRM book and Hypergamy, game is about to get crazy again"
lol it's good that they've found it but I don't think it'll change much. The PUA community has technically always understood Hypergamy at a basic level, we just never had a term for it or got into it in-depth. Just like we understand Solipsism at a basic level, but never really go into it in-depth. Hypergamy and Solipsism in-depth are the two main things that I give massive props to Rollo for and that drew me to his writing. Our version of "Hypergamy" was basically "just be the highest value guy possible, if there's a higher value guy she'll instinctively feel attraction for him" and then we move on to another subject lol Same with Solipsism, we knew girls just focus on what's relevant to them, so we talk about taking over their Reticular Activation System and BE the thing that's relevant to them and don't expect them to give a shit about stuff that isn't relevant to them, but otherwise again we just move onto another subject.
The main thing it'll probably do is connect a lot of dots and add clarity to stuff they already understand the surface level of. It's sort of like you understand how a light switch works, but then someone comes along and explains the exact wiring and circuitry for it. And Rollo's already written a great "how a light switch works" guide so I'm sure they'll be recommending guys read his stuff now that they've finally found it.
This is why I say like, they aren't reading the Manosphere lol Everyone thinks I'm Tyler but PUAs don't give a shit about the Manosphere, they aren't reading the RVF or watching Krauser's infield lol To the PUA community the Manosphere is just this negative shitty place where guys all seem to hate women and run away from challenges (fly to EE for easy lays, avoid nightclubs, avoid learning group theory or how to deal with AMOGs, wear custom fitted suits because they still think looks/money matter, etc) and regurgitate the same stuff the PUA community has been teaching since day one but repackaged and renamed to sell Manosphere products. It's viewed pretty much the same way MGTOW/MRA are viewed by the Manosphere (which is ironic because in terms of the ladder of society PUAs are the very bottom and everyone else looks down at US lol)
Todd is already spouting some of his Women product stuff here:
"But it all becomes obvious with enough field experience."
This lol You can't go out and sarge a shitload and NOT see Hypergamy/Solipsism in action. But Rollo's breakdowns of those things are the best in the red pill community in general and RSD recommends other people's products/books/etc all the time (and pretty much never shits on other pickup companies no matter how many of them shit on RSD because the oldschool PUA mindset is learn from anywhere, whatever works and helps, learn from it and adapt it into your game) so it won't surprise me if they add Rollo's books to their recommended book lists next to Eckhart Tolle, Robert Greene etc
If I see any of them giving TRM a shout-out I'll post them here with time-stamps for ya.
"So for this cold approach stuff I need to hook in there more and stay with her longer."
Yup. You just need time to display enough value. PUA is focused on displaying value as fast/efficient as possible. If you approached her with two girls on your arm and knew someone in her social circle ("hey weren't you at Mike's party last week?") etc you'd have a bunch of value…approaching as an unknown she's only basing her assessment of your value on what she experiences in that interaction. It's also why I keep stressing emotional impact. You can have a friendly chill rapport conversation about puppydogs and ice cream, and if you can spend enough time in that conversation you can demonstrate enough value…but if you can hit her with stuff that spikes her emotions (giving her huge good emotion spikes, or bad emotion spikes followed by recovering and smoothing it over, stuff like sexual humor (if you do roleplaying and cold reading try to make it sexual) etc) and/or causes her to shit-test you (passing shit-tests spikes attraction), you're going to hit that "will ditch my friends for him" level of value to her.
"The other issue is that in these venues, like a busy coffee shop or the family friendly restaurant, I can’t really get much more sexual than I have been."
CAN'T you? 😉 Children's TV shows/movies get away with tons of innuendo for the adults to enjoy the little in-jokes that their kids won't get. You can get away with a LOT through humor/innuendo. Simple Pickup and Limitless EXP on YouTube drop a lot of sexual comments while they do daygame, though Simple Pickup tends to mainly be outdoors (VS in a busy coffee shop) and Limitless is in Vegas (he hits on lots of hired guns and girls in stores but Vegas normalizes a sexual mindset by default).
Also laser eye-contact is huge. You can be talking about mundane stuff but if you've got laser eye-contact locked it can rack up the sexual tension (see the Liam Mcrae and Gambler/Richard La Ruina vids I always link on it).
"Better to learn in a club, get laid a few times, and THEN bring that vibe into calm casual daygame situs."
This is the ideal path lol but if you don't have clubs then you gotta make do with what you got. Try ramping up the sexual conversation when you DO hit normal bar type venues, like push the limits there and then calibrate back for daygame…you'll break way less social norms if you go "too sexual/offensive" in a bar venue VS the coffee shop she works at with her manager behind her and customers lined up lol View your bar nights out as chances to practice being obnoxiously sexual to learn that calibration.
"So I went from *me* leaving to the set to now I stick in until the *girl* leaves the set and now the next step is to then stick with the girl even when she is leaving. I used to bounce off the girl, now I stick with her for a bit, and the next step is to pull her along with me."
lol props on your progress. This is also why I push guys to do their Field Reports, even if they don't post them online. Because you can look back on your old reports and be like "oh man, I didn't even realize I had improved this much" and that can help motivate through frustrating periods. You're not competing against other guys, you're competing against yourself from 6 months ago. As Tyler says: if you go out regularly and push yourself, your BEST night out now will just be your AVERAGE night out 6 months from now.
"interesting reflecting on the cookie black girls compared to the two asians from a coupe months ago. imagine if I did the “you two are trouble, you’re drunks. you beat the shit out of people and you turn into a raging lesbian.” right after the buy me a cookie bit. That would have fucking nuked those black girls."
lol see and I KNOW "oh he could say this and it would nuke them" when I first read that, but based on your experience at the time I know you can only make incremental steps toward that stuff, you needed to build the reference experiences of inching your way toward where that's normal and congruent for you, picking up bits of positive reception or crossing the line and calibrating back etc and normalizing it. That's why I say this is a long process, view it as a few YEARS instead of a few weeks (regardless of when you start getting laid, you can stumble into getting laid without having actually learned anything from it) so that you don't beat yourself up and get frustrated with the slow process. It's all about gathering reference experiences and pushing your comfort zones and the limits of what you THINK you can do, and learning calibration etc. Like you now have reference experiences for "sitting down with a girl who's eating" or on her headphones etc. Do you have any idea how few guys can DO that?? lol I have PUA buddies who approach regularly in nightclubs who would be scared to do that in the daytime. Half the guys in the Manosphere who talk a big game about what badass bosses they are would choke on sitting down with a girl with headphones on in the daytime lol
And that's why I can read your Field Reports and go "shit, this kid has a ton of potential, and I can see him applying the recommendations I gave him and he's analyzing his own stuff and connecting dots on his own so he's got the smarts to do this shit if I can just encourage him to keep hitting the field even though he isn't getting laid right away" Like I can extrapolate from your progress and your reports what you're going to be like when you DO get to a better city and have access to a proper nightlife scene and girls that you think are hot etc I'm basically following your shit just to see your progress skyrocket when you get to a better city lol It's like getting invested in a show early 'cause you can tell the final episodes of the season are going to be amazing shit.
"oh god. my interactions are so much better than then lol. This was like end of June. way way better now."
I had no doubt you'd get this far as long as you kept going out, and I wasn't sure if you'd keep going out 'cause you're in a shitty logistical situation right now, that's why I kept giving you props for going out at ALL because 99% of guys would use living in your city as an excuse to not go out and to wait until they get to a better city before they bother even STARTING to approach, they'd just hang out in red pill spheres mentally masturbating "trying to learn as much as possible for when I'm in a new city" instead of pounding the pavement hitting the field and ACTUALLY learning anything…to me everything you're doing right now in that city is just a warmup for the big game when you get to a better city, and again consider adding rapport to your conversations with guys about your situation and your dream of getting a job in that big city, you may manage to network your way into a job, apartment, etc in that city, you're learning social skills, use them to your advantage even outside of poon.
And I have no doubt you'll get way farther and you'll look back on where you are now and lol at your current Field Reports. You're still young as fuck with all the time and potential in the world ahead of you as long as you stick to this. And there'll be periods where you slip up or don't have time for it or slip ito depression or it takes a backburner to other shit in your life…but you can ALWAYS come back to the game. It's always just outside your door, there are other human beings to interact with everywhere you go. All you gotta do is leave your bedroom and hit the field.
"I have a buddy who is convinced that a man’s looks generate real desire in a woman and he maintains that charm and status don’t."
You buddy doesn't understand attraction.
"Could use your advice on something. I’m temporarily ‘living’ in an EE country where there’s no ONS lifestyle culture whatsoever"
"ONS’s are about as uncommon here as anywhere in the world I’ve been."
"In America, absolutely. Where I am temporarily ‘living’ in EE, absolutely not. It’s K-selection here."
lol let go of this mindset, it's based on nonsense limiting beliefs. RSD and other PUA companies run bootcamps in EE all the fucking time and have a bunch of infield from all over EE (Valentino Kohen, RSD Max, RSD Julien…a BUNCH of guys game and pull for sex in EE). EE is full of guys getting One Night Stands/Same Night Lays, from the same girls you think won't put out that way. You're projecting your own baggage onto the girls because YOU don't feel comfortable with ONS/SNL because you're "ethical", which is just code for "ashamed to want to stick my dick in something"…because what better way to hold onto the victim mindset of "it can't be done, these girls and this culture are different" than by remaining "ethical" and not banging her so that your brain doesn't have to try to process "these girls are conservative, but I fucked this married chick who came onto ME when I triggered her Hypergamy". I haven't seen you in set but I'd bet that in-set you're looking for green lights from them instead of hot-wiring the light to MAKE it green for you.
I can post a bunch of EE infield for you but here's a quick one:
That student had enough attraction to get her out of the venue but she didn't give him green lights so he was going to just get her number, and she'd flake on him or make him go on multiple dates first, and he'd go "man these EE girls, you can't just bang them the same night you meet them, these girls aren't like that, they're more conservative". But when he wouldn't listen to Julien to NOT settle for her number, Julien steps in and demonstrates how all the student had to do was spike her buying temperature, introduce sexual humor, and then LEAD the interaction forward and the girl was happy as fuck to go along with him.
Here's two more videos for you. The first one is Tyler talking about how you're SUPPOSED to think they're all conservative and won't have ONS with you:
And here's one demonstrating the way the same girl will treat two different guys two completely different ways based on that guy's congruency and beta/alpha vibe/subcomms:
"but any hint of them coming back to where I’m staying is not taken well, so I just shrug and shift the conversation…again"
Write up Field Reports of this part of your interactions and we can help you narrow down where you're fucking it up. A lot of your problem is mindset, but fixing your externals will help fix your mindsets. Can't help ya with more than general advice if I don't know how your interactions are playing out though. Field Reports with as much detail as you can remember, specifically of this stage of your interactions (like you can just give the brief jist of how you opened and got to that point to save some writing time).
"As an outsider who doesn’t know the language – I’m seen as exotic, prospectively a hell of a lot richer than virtually everyone here (which is true), confident, stylish etc etc…"
No one believes me until they experience it or know guys it happens to but a lot of times coming off with too much provider potential like this (succeeding at society's version of "high-value" which is just "high-provider-potential", looks, money, etc) will make girls NOT put out for you when they WOULD have if you were poor/ugly/etc lol
"but my thought process is that if I cold approach random groups of chicks, rather than letting them approach me (which happens ~25% of the time, the other 75% of the time they just smile at me as I make strong EC and smirk at them from afar) – this will shift my attractive mystique into an inappropriately creepy vibe since I do not speak their language and therefore any banter/amused mastery I can participate in must be nonverbal – in other words, not conducive to approaching and starting a conversation *at all*…."
Merge sets forward. Open one girl and introduce her to other girls…you won't have to talk as much, the girls can talk to eachother for you and you'll feel less "vulture swooping down on a set".
A lot of your problem is in your head, worrying about how you'll be perceived ahead of time and trying to micro-manage it, which is usually from unconsciously viewing yourself as taking value VS giving value ("I want sex from them, if I do this I won't have enough value to get sex from them" VS "I'm just having a good time and making myself laugh and am offering girls a golden ticket into joining my fun even if they can't understand what I'm saying").
But that'll be hard to overcome in a place where you don't speak the language 'cause you'll probably always feel a bit like an outsider and you'll have a lot of social conditioning that tells you the only way you can offer women value is through verbal conversation so in your mind, without that ability, you aren't able to offer value.
If I was in your situation I would open girls in English and act like I just assume they'll speak it and when they don't know what I'm saying look at them like THEY'RE the weird ones for NOT speaking English (even if that makes no sense, the strongest frame wins), then spit out some broken-ass whatever-their-language is sentence and have the girls teach me their language, since if they DO think you're this attractive mysterious outsider dude then that gives them a chance to give you value.
You don't need verbal communication to build attraction…hell, I'd say the LESS verbal communication ABOUT pulling, the better. I try NOT to talk about where we're going lol Just tell them to follow me and throw out the word "food" or whatever and lead them forward…like are you getting into logical "so do you want to come back to my place for a drink?" conversations. Post Field Reports of how this part of your interactions go down, you might just be triggering ASD with your approach to this part of it.
For your externals, hit YouTube and check out "Liam Mcrae Rapid Escalation" (the whole thing) and "Richard La Ruina The Formula For Nightgame" (skip right to 29:40). Pay attention to how when they do proper laser eye-contact and close the space (closing the space is key, that's what skyrockets the tension, La Ruina demonstrates it perfectly in that clip at 33:35 when he steps closer to the girl as she talks, watch her instinctive reaction, he wouldn't even need to speak English to do that), they don't have to say much, they actually talk slower/LESS, but they ramp the sexual chemistry through the roof.
Your understanding of the "fairness" of this stuff will probably hold you back too. Until you accept that women do what they do because of their biology, you will always view them as malicious and take it personal, when they're simply following their optimal biological strategy. Think of human beings as a virus instead of beings with agency…a virus' only goal is to survive and reproduce. Same shit with women (and men, really, but men grow up being rewarded for restraining their emotions (or punished for not restraining them) while women gorw up being rewarded for embracing their emotions). You can add Hero's Journey fluff and "they should show more personal agency and follow a moral code and not be deceptive" fluff to it all you want but that's just your own social conditioning layering meaning where there isn't any, just like people get into religion or use gods or destiny to explain things they can't explain or don't want to accept, when really there IS no meaning to life. We're just a bunch of electro-whatever impulses programmed to survive and replicate under the surface and our behavior stems from that. Women generally just follow their Freudian "id" and use backwards/hamster rationalization to justify it (survival/reproduction dynamic Rollo talks about in his War Brides articles).
You have a bunch of conflicting inner shit going on right now lol The field will sort a lot of it out. A lot of this stuff only comes off "dishonest" and "deceitful" for you because you don't currently "speak the language". Same way the dentist in Tyler's double-standards video I just linked doesn't "speak the language" and will view that stripper pole girl as being a bitch for how she treated him VS how she treated Tyler doing the same thing. It's the same way guys view shit-tests as negative. When you understand why they're shit-testing (to reassure their Hypergamy that they have the highest-value guy, which is optimal for their survival/replication), they're able to let go of taking it personal or viewing it as evil and understand that they're just following their biology.
Society lied to you, none of us has personal agency. We're just REALLY good at rationalizing what we do to avoid being conscious of that fact. Like by not approaching, you are avoiding potentially being killed by a rival or ostracized from the women as a good sexual partner, so you THINK you're consciously playing this big strategic thing but really you're just doing what your hindbrain thinks is optimal for keeping your survival/replication chances as high as possible (can't survive/replicate if you're dead or ostracized). But your brain will rationalize that with a bunch of fluff so that it feels like a conscious logical decision.
Even your belief about "oh this area is conservative, it's all K-selected bla bla" stuff is just ego-protection and rationalization because your hindbrain is worried about lowering your survival/replication. It doesn't care if you're happy or if you get a hot girl or if that girl cost money etc, so it'll want to keep taking the safe road (not approaching, building up the mindset that it's impossible to get the girls you're around, throwing away evidence that would contradict that under the guise of "being ethical", it'll probably even make you ignore everything I'm writing here and not watch any of those videos and write me off as some asshole who doesn't really know YOUR situation (you don't KNOW bro, that pull happened a block away from where I am, but on THIS street the girls can't be pulled okay?!)).
In general you're trying to apply ethics and morals to people's hindbrain. It's like putting intent onto a light bulb turning on and off when a switch is flipped lol You'll end up frustrated for a long time if you can't let go of that and understand that ethics and morals are just social conditioning and that you're under social conditioning yourself. You don't have to fix that to get laid, but you'll be much happier internally overall and enjoy sarging a lot more when you DO fix it down the road lol
"Even if you don’t get feedback from others, just reflecting on your nights out is important, and writing it down is a great way to review an entire night in a nice orderly way."
Guys who don't write Field Reports, even if it's just to themselves, just won't progress as fast as they could. They'll often go out blindly sarging for a year and not see any real improvement. Field Reports are how you find patterns that reveal your sticking points so you know how to start fixing them.
"Do you have specific advice for “gaming” in noisy subway scenarios?"
Paul Janka had some good stuff here (he did a lot of NYC Subway game for years), he talks about focusing on make a short high-impact routine stack that demonstrates a bunch of value and different sides of you (similar to a movie trailer) because you have a short window of time to work with:
But I'm honestly not sure how it holds up in 2016. Back when he was doing it we didn't have the insane texting/social media/smartphone culture we have now. But if you added in Time Bridging to meet up later that same day (while she's still interested in you before that dies down) it might work out decent.
In terms of noise interruptions, not much you can do. Focus on lasers and you might be able to have a subcomm conversation that's mainly just in your facial expressions to eachother. Type some text on your phone and pass it for her to read and text back? lol (would make an easy transition to "type your phone number in" since she's getting used to holding your phone) Or try to time the conversation so that the stop happens when SHE'S in the middle of talking (ask a question that she'll give a long answer to) so that SHE'S the one that feels interrupted by the noise and feels the urge to "recover" when it's over. Try not to panic at the downtime in the interaction, a lot of guys freak out when they can't keep talking, like "oh shit if I'm not talking I'll lose attraction", but it shows confidence that you can sit in silence and not lose your shit about it.
Also Janka was a Natural who just figured shit out on his own and custom-tailored his game for NYC (lots of street/subway game opportunities, high volume of girls everywhere so more of a numbers-based approach, etc), so a lot of the stuff in that Paul Janka Attraction Formula PDF goes against the grain of what PUAs teach (like he recommends NOT going to nightclubs, avoiding groups, ruling “No” girls out quickly and moving on instead of learning to turn them around, etc, a lot of the same stuff Krauser talks about with Daygame).
The main sections I’m linking it for for you specifically though are the “1 Minute Movie Trailer” and “Why not stay longer” sections (and some other random ones probably have interesting stuff to read) because those are based on having a limited window of time (like on a subway).
Chicks and their retarded cell phone habits are reported across the PUA community, across the Manosphere, across the TRP forums, etc It’s not just my personal experience, we have thousands of guys reporting this shit. Dunno what to tell ya lol
“When I’m at a party or bar/club, yea most people are pretty engaged with those they’re with.”
Yup if you engage them (and make emotional impact) they’ll ignore their phones. But if no one is engaging them (or they’re just hanging with their usual friends (VS catching up on the latest gossip with a girlfriend)), out come the little stimulus machines to give them their dopamine hits on demand.
Girls texting while engaged with you is entirely different from texting when no one is engaging them lol I’m talking about the latter not the former. The former is just a sign that a guy’s game needs to be more engaging.
“But I’ve mentioned before, it’s not necessarily the phone is a problem during the interaction, face to face, it’s what happens when you part ways and you just become another number in her phone.”
Also this. A hot girl’s phone will have dozens of txts piling up while she’s engaging with you and ignoring her phone, on a Friday/Saturday night. Throw your number in there and you’re just another horizontal popup on her screen VS the old days before even texting was popular let alone all these other validation sources.
Not that these things can’t be overcome of course, but guys pretending that nothing has changed and that none of this is happening and men aren’t running into it infield when shitloads of guys hitting the field regularly are reporting it, is silly.
@Culum Struan @STDs
“So low as I said, that it is simply not worth worrying about after taking basic precautions which I outlined in my first post. The only way to be *absolutely* certain is abstinence.”
Pretty much everything but herpes and HIV can be cleared up with a round of pills and if you caught cold sores from your grandma when you were a kid you’re less likely to catch genital herp anyway:
“By comparison, almost all HSV-2 is encountered after childhood, when people become sexually active. Those who have a prior infection with HSV-1 have an acquired immune response that lowers – though certainly doesn’t eliminate-the risk of acquiring HSV-2. According to one study (Mertz, Annals of Internal Medicine,1992), previous oral HSV-1 infection reduces the acquisition of subsequent HSV-2 infection by 40%. A prior infection with oral HSV-1 lowers the risk of acquiring genital HSV-1 even further. Studies show that genital HSV-1 infections almost always occur in people who have no prior infection with HSV of either type (Corey, Annals of Internal Medicine, 1983).”
Use condoms and swig some mouthwash while you take a hot soapy shower after sex (no idea if those actually do anything but it gives me peace of mind lol), get tested regularly (so you catch that chlamydia or ghonnorhea or whatever before you spread it around and can tell the girls you’ve banged recently to go get tested so their ovaries don’t fall out) and have your fuckbuddies get tested regularly and you’ll probably be fine. Add in screening conversation ABOUT STDs with the girl to get an idea of how seriously she takes getting tested regularly etc if you’re extra worried…you won’t weed out all the liars obviously but all you can do is lower the risks as much as possible.
Besides eating red meat might give you cancer, better cut out eating those steaks and burgers everyone! What happened to all the guys promoting taking risks and how taking risks was manly and badass when it comes to marriage/monogamy and PUAs are the risk avoider pussies? Now it’s suddenly “there’s a 0.01% chance you might catch something that you can clear up with some pills if you do this thing that I’m not allowed to do in my relationship, YOU BETTER NOT HAVE CASUAL SEX ALL YOU YOUNG SINGLE GUYS, THIS RED PILL BLOG IS NOW ABOUT WHY MONOGAMY AND LOVE ARE THE BEST” lol
If I had a dollar for every guy who “””SOMEHOW””” caught an STD from his “””monogamous””” GF I’d be rich lol
Don’t know how many times we can keep re-explaining to you over and over again that the reason an alpha widow stays alpha to the woman is because he’s not around to fail her shit-tests. And as we’ve also said repeatedly, it might let you buy some time to fuck up a bit, but keep fucking up and she WILL leave you because otherwise you’re suggesting that once you have attraction you can’t ever lose it which is a ridiculous notion and I’d love for you to prove it with your Deeply Converted wife by acting as beta supplicative as possible for the next few years. According to your theory, because you’ve Deeply Converted her, she’ll still be massively attracted to you no matter what.
“Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn AND Louise Tracy are illustrative of this, all around [and Tracy showed plenty of beta… Hepburn did not act for five years while she tended to his broken health]…”
lol man it sounds like this guy’s pLTR kept his wife with him despite him acting beta. Sounds like a great advertisement for how pLTRs make it easier for a guy to keep triggering Hypergamy, thanks for posting it! Can you IMAGINE if he was in a monoLTR? Shit, she’d probably have dumped him fast. Good thing he had that preselection and dread of having another woman on the side that a pLTR naturally creates! 🙂
“When you say club, my mind instantly pictures waiting in a long line to get into a room packed inch to inch with bodies with music blaring so loud that it physically hurts.”
Scroll down to my response to averagechump here:
Hey man, I am a big fan of your posts and I read all of your comments
I know that you date women only for sex. Can you write a post on how make a girl into a fuck buddie? A step by step guide on what to do and what not to do would be awesome. Or at least some video or book?
Thanks for all the advice here. I don’t post much but I do read as much as I can of what you write.
@fan of yareally
This should get ya started, a lot of it is just holding your frame that it’s NORMAL to casually hookup and painting monogamous relationships as lame/boring/restricting/etc:
“He also has some advice that doesn’t quite match other sources”
Ya, Janka had tons of girls around him living in NYC so he could Next girls for little things and he didn’t mind the numbers game etc, and back then numbers weren’t as flakey so it wasn’t a bad approach. But it also means that his game has limitations he doesn’t learn how to handle or work around because he runs that style of game. But I think his view is interesting, his original “infamous” Getting Laid in NYC PDF that got him noticed is a funny read, it’s interesting to see his ideas about using daygame to fuel dates for fri/sat nights instead of competing in bars etc Stuff that I’ll probably apply when I’m older and tired of the bar scene.
“First, again, you are not explaining anything to me…”
That seems to be the case unfortunately. We’ve all tried. HABD had a great breakdown step by step walking you through why alpha widows happen but you seem oblivious and dead-set on just making us repeat ourselves over and over.
“the “burn in” is just as real when the guy is still around, because the Arbiter has made a choice and wants that choice to be the right one… so the hamster will continue to work in your favor.”
Oh okay, then any guy who triggers a girl’s Hypergamy at some point will never lose attraction from her or get cheated on or anything. You should write up this infallible new system you’ve created that lets guys quit their job, lay around on a couch, beg their girl for sex, supplicate 24/7 and introduce a bunch of high-value alpha guys to her and she’ll brush them all off for her low-value loser.
She will rationalize why she’s with you as long as you’re still triggering her Hypergamy. When you stop triggering her Hypergamy for long enough (and that time is getting shorter and shorter as technology makes it easier for her to surround herself with high-value options compared to when you got married), she will 180 on you and use that same rationalization for why she can do better than you.
“Soooo much time… your notion of time is off by many orders of magnitude… due to your lack of experience in this regard.”
Do tell us about your experience with the <25yo 8+/10s you've Deep Converted in monoLTRs and then let yourself become beta'ized and they've stayed with you. I'm sure we're all ears to hear about your vast experience in this regard.
Because I can post a dozen accounts of guys who've been tossed aside once they stopped triggering Hypergamy, even filtering to just accounts of guys dealing with <25yo 8+/10s, without breaking a sweat. Even Krauser's own post ends with him no longer triggering her Hypergamy and losing attraction lol
"You have a lot more runway then you think for reasons you do not understand…"
How is your <25yo 8+/10 monogamous wife doing these days? Wait, she doesn't exist. The rapid pace of technology is giving girls more Hypergamous options, making the "runway" a lot shorter than it is for you with your post-wall wife you married pre-Tinder.
"Been there done that… for 10 years… as have many of the other guys posting…"
Did your wife have a tinder Tinder and Instagram account throughout that 10 years, along with a 100+ messages a day orbiter harem when you met her?
"Those sliders yo, they slide aloooong way."
Yes, with your old now post-wall wives, I'm sure they do. Unfortunately men in 2016 going after <25yo 8+/10s can't travel back in time to deal with the same Easy Mode circumstances you dealt with.
I mean ya, we could have guys just settle with 40yo 1/10s that have no options or money and they might stick with them while they fail every shit-test for 10 years, but I'd hardly call that beating Hypergamy lol That's just a woman with less options than a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016.
"because the Arbiter – having chosen – wants to believe her choice was right… Solipsism."
So is it impossible to lose attraction with a girl then? You've found the magic formula to defeat Hypergamy have you? lol
"Reading comprehension fail… Tracy’s wife was – his wife… or more aptly he was her husband… because he was Spencer Tracy… She viewed Hepburn as a mere rumor… and by doing so she claimed the top honor… his wife… one and only…"
He can call her whatever she wants. Just like in a pLTR you can call her your wife, you can change your names, you can throw a wedding and give her a ring if you want. But having a fuckbuddy on the side of your main relationship is a pLTR and:
“He had committed adultery emotionally with Selena, and physically with Betty Hanna. Maybe there had even been others during Louise’s pregnancy.”
“But he was also unhappy about the physical aspect of his marriage”
“Louise, meanwhile, valiantly gave her side of the story. ‘I’ve repeatedly told him to go out with other people,’ she said in an interview. ‘Occasionally he’s gone out with some of the girls he’s worked with. I haven’t minded, because he always told me about it.
‘I can’t truthfully say that Spencer and I are still madly, passionately in love with each other. I don’t believe that kind of love ever lasts. But in its place comes a deep understanding, companionship and devotion.'”
This is all a great advertisement for pLTRs lol
“This should get ya started, a lot of it is just holding your frame that it’s NORMAL to casually hookup and painting monogamous relationships as lame/boring/restricting/etc:”
Thanks a lot for the videos.
One more thing I would like to ask is how to approach a women on the streets. I don’t have much time to go to nightclubs because I am more focused on my career so this is my current option because I see a lot of good looking women on the streets walking here and there. The problem is that they are walking to somewhere and hence stopping them and going through mystery’s A1 A2 A3 C1 would take too much time and I think they just won’t stop to talk for that long. Any advice?
I just got RSD Todd’s day game product but haven’t had the time to go through it. Will do it on the weekend.
“Is Yareally counseling BetaBux as attraction? Odd. High value is in the eye of the beholder Ya. You know that… Externalities not mattering and all…”
Quitting your job and laying around on a couch = no ambition/passion. You know, that DPA shit you go on and on about. I keep forgetting not to expect you to connect dots.
“Now tell us how long is long enough? specifics?”
Depends on the girl, her SMV, her options, and how much the guy fails her shit-tests. That’s why your old post-wall wife you married before Tinder culture will give you a longer window to fuck up than a <25yo 8+/10 in 2016.
"You can continue to look only at the failures and point out loss of attraction, or you can look at the successes and figure out why this hasn’t happened…"
The successes you are having with your post-wall wife you married before Tinder culture are from a bygone era that modern men can't relate to. They are dealing with the modern <25yo 8+/10s in Tinder culture where that window they get for not triggering Hypergamy is significantly shrinking (and will continue to do so as technology evolves and makes things even worse).
But let us know when you Deeply Convert a <25yo 8+/10 raised in Tinder culture and successful go full beta chode on her for 10 years and she stays with you. 'cause right now all the guys infield reporting attempting this aren't able to make it happen. But they're probably not as awesome as you are, even though you haven't done it, you TOTES could.
Question: if a man has been ” passing shit tests”, why would he suddenly start failing them over an extended period?
ffs are you serious? Do you even understand the concept of betaization? Rollo and the rest of the red pill communities have written a million articles on this shit and guys all around you fall into it.
I swear half my time in this place these days is spend re-explaining the basics to you OMGs playing dumb, what a fucking waste of time.
Anonymous Reader nailed it: "But you’ve never seen it, so it can’t exist, right? Sometimes you are as solipsistic as any girl."
"I’m having a much harder time with younger males today, in attempting to replicate or pay forward what was done for me"
" I have not been able to figure out how to realistically help young men when they refuse to listen"
Have you ever considered that the problem might not be with them? That the problem might be that you're just not good at teaching and that your lack of willingness to even bother to TRY to relate to younger guys and their world (you know, pace their reality, basic human psychology 101) and the victim mentality you put on when people don't just snap to attention because the great Blaximus is yapping and nothing Blaximus ever says is wrong and everything he hasn't seen for his own eyes first-hand is wrong, is what puts them off listening to all your brilliant wisdom? That maybe they'd listen to you if you made even a basic attempt at understanding them instead of writing them all off as retarded because they aren't acting like you did?
@fan of yareally
"The problem is that they are walking to somewhere and hence stopping them and going through mystery’s A1 A2 A3 C1 would take too much time and I think they just won’t stop to talk for that long. Any advice?"
Don't let the length of MM fool you, A1-C1 can happen VERY fast. Like in the oldschool days:
Guy: "Hey who do you think lies more men or women?" (said confidently, breaking rapport tonality etc, A1)
Guy: "Of course you'd say that (insert some teasing that spikes her Buying Temp here, not taking her seriously, etc more A1, these are what trigger Attraction and cause her to instinctively give iois (A2))"
Girl: (gives iois like playing with her hair as she reponds (A2) that the guy notices)
Guy: "hmmm, you seem like the type that (bla bla teasing cold read)" (qualifying her, A3)
Girl: "OMG no I'm not like that at all! I'm actually (bla bla, qualifying herself)
Guy: "oh I LOVE girls who (whatever she said)…what are you doing right now?"
Girl: "I'm going to (bla bla)"
Guy: "oh I once did (bla bla, just build some Comfort about whatever it is)"
Girl: (giving iois, but needs the guy to pull the trigger)
Guy: "It's funny that you're so (whatever, cold read her), when I said hi I thought you were going to be a bitch 'cause you looked angry. (qualifying/teasing her) I'm about to (whatever your day 2 is), ditch your (whatever she was going to do) and come with me."
Like the bare minimum is just open and DHV (confidence, good tonality, etc and open with something interesting, tell a short DHV story, tease her, cold-read her, whatever) till you see any kind of ioi from her (MM or Google will have a big list of them), and the second you see an ioi or two, qualify her and let her pass and now you're past A3 and can go into C1.
That can play out in under a minute. Or you can stretch it out for hours DHV'ing until you have crazy off the charts A2 and disqualifying her over and over not giving her A3 until she's chasing as hard as possible, etc which is more how Mystery liked to do it with girls in nightclubs.
Watch Todd's product, I hear Krauser's Daygame Mastery book is good, and just get out there and do your Field Reports so we can help you tighten things up and point out where you could've zigged instead of zagged lol
Good luck, have fun!
“These young guys also think that they are smarter than the OMGs because we’re addled because we’re old. And we seem shallow/robotic because we don’t let our emotions rule us. Because we don’t live like girls, who are the high value gender in today’s culture. Do you get it now?”
There are a lot of older guys I’ve met that I respect and listen to. Is that a surprise to anyone? The default assumption tends to be that because I don’t listen to the OMGs here (when they put forth shit that doesn’t hold up infield with <25yo 8+/10s, I give them props whenever they put forth shit that holds up), I must hate and look down on all OMGs? lol
I judge the value of what people are saying based on the ideas they put forth. When a specific group of OMGs keep bringing the same bullshit that a bunch of us have already taken apart over and over, and that thousands of guys infield report the opposite of, when they themselves haven't executed their theories on <25yo 8+/10s rasied in Tinder culture, I don't see any reason to just bestow amazing value to their words…being old doesn't mean a guy can't also be stupid lol
The OMGs here don't seem to understand that they have to earn respect for people to listen to them. Maybe in their day to day life talking to their kids or friends they don't have to, but this is the internet. None of us are given any weight by default here. The only reason people give a shit about what I have to say is that when they take it infield and test it, it holds up. That's it. And I wouldn't EXPECT to be given any more credit by default than that. If I didn't have a massive archive of writing that consistently holds up infield when guys test what I'm saying, I wouldn't expect anyone to just automatically listen to me on the internet.
For every OMG I've met that I respect and listen to, I'll meet a handful more OMGs who are fucking retarded and managed to pull off a decent life DESPITE that (or has a shitty life that no other guy would actually want) but thinks he ISN'T retarded and is too stubborn to get past his own solipsistic world view and too arrogant to believe that he might be the one in the wrong and just tries to bully people into accepting his word as authority like his kids have to.
Young or old, I don't care. if what you say doesn't hold up when thousands of us are reporting what happens when we test it infield, then your advice is either outdated, irrelevant, misguided, or flat out full of shit. That doesn't mean that guy is a bad person, it just means that in this category his ideas don't hold up. No big deal…unless he's massively ego-invested in the notion of "I'm an OMG so I demand respect from you young guys!!" lol THEN out come the temper tantrum, the 14yo girl tactics, the snark, etc, before crying victim when people throw that right back at them.
“Have you actually tried Taming of the Shrew methods? I have, and they hold up.”
On <25yo 8+/10s raised in Tinder culture for long-term monoLTRs past the NRE stage? Your guys' wives are not <25yo 8+/10s raised in Tinder culture for long-term monoLTRs, and the girls you dance with are not in long-term monoLTRs past the NRE stage with you.
The guys that are trying tame the <25yo 8+/10s raised in Tinder culture for long-term monoLTRs past the NRE stage are running into the things I'm talking about.
"Hey Rollo, serious question because the duplicity confounds me from time to time. Do you think you are writing about old and outdated stuff that doesn’t hold up in 2016 culture?"
lol Rollo's stuff is great. The only things with Rollo that I push back on are looks mattering. Because Rollo accepts that society has changed and that men these days are dealing with different circumstances than you guys and the effects that has. I wouldn't even remotely equate your guys' writing lol Rollo's views are very flexible, yours are stubborn.
"When you get push back from men against RP concepts, is it because you happen to be solipsistic and stubborn?"
Rollo is always open to listening to reports from the field. One day we'll even convince him that looks don't matter lol
"You hate being questioned on your religion, I get that."
Question all you want. I'll continue to keep posting the same rebuttals along with everyone else that continue to prove what you're saying is silly. I'm just surprised you guys can't grasp basic concepts no matter how many times we explain them to you.
"and you rebel by questioning everything and only believing in what you can see 2 feet in front of your face, or only what similarly situated people say and think. Solipsistic?"
I don't give authority to people who haven't earned it. You're just some dude on the net who tells stories about what a badass he is and half the shit you say contradicts what thousands of us are seeing infield. So yes, I throw out advice that doesn't align with reality. That's not solipsitic, that's called "reality doesn't match what this old guy is saying".
"I just don’t grasp the general attitude some guys have."
The reality is you don't WANT to grasp it. You'd rather just complain that they don't listen to you. You make zero effort to understand other guys' positions, you just condescendingly talk down to them from up on Blaximus Mountain where all their problems are silly and imaginary and you have all the answers to everything and if they don't listen to you by default then they're solipsitic and dumb.
"Rollo’s written about that attitude. Care to keep double talking and tip toeing around that fact?"
No idea what you're talking about. Men listen to men they respect, always have and always will. Your issue is that your generation isn't just automatically given respect by default like in the past and you don't know how to earn it except to throw a temper tantrum or call them names.
"I mean, you can keep looking for the next bad guy to rail against for having a different view and life experience, but that doesn’t lend gravitas."
I'm not looking for a bad guy. I KNOW you have a different view and different life experiences…that's what I've said from the start: that guys these days aren't growing up in the same culture with the same influences and life experiences you had so they have a different view and the culture around them is different from the one you dealt with, which makes the usefulness of your advice limited to them. You can either try to understand their world, or you can go out and regularly fuck/date/LTR these girls, or you can just keep doubling-down on how nothing we say is right, everything we say is lies, everyone who disagrees with you is a meanie-head picking on you, and everyone who doesn't listen to you is just some dumb YSG lol
Here comes mean ol’ YaReally lol
“@Rollo: seems like a RP man seeking a deep conversion end state in a monogamous relation would be very close to trying to get a BP goal with RP knowledge.”
Yup. This is just repackaged “True Love” from a guy (Krauser, not Rollo) who’s 1) getting tired of the fuckbuddy lifestyle and going to start down the Roosh road of “you know guys, the real TRUE game is to monogamously settle with a girl who’s soul is intertwined with your soul” nonsense as he gets older, and who 2) runs a low emotional impact style of game that doesn’t inspire this magic “Deep Conversion” in many girls so when it DOES happen it blows his mind because it’s rare for him and he starts thinking that because it’s the “outlier” to his experience, it must be some magic special new thing he’s discovered when it’s really just an expansion of a thing he’s not doing properly (either by choice (ie – I try to purposely AVOID this situation) or by lack of knowledge (Krauser’s style of low emotional-impact game)).
“So Krauser has the Deep Conversation with his wife and it’s great for 8 years until he loses his mojo. A year later it’s over….right. That was Deep.”
lol “Deep Conversion” is just “triggering her Hypergamy for a long period of time”. The second you stop being her best Hypergamous option, the “Deep Conversion” dies. A girl who’s alpha widowed stays alpha widowed because that guy generally isn’t still in her life so she remembers him at his best (and extrapolates from that, ie – “he WOULD have done the right move in this situation because he did right moves before”) and he’s not around to “lose his mojo” or fail shit-tests or execute too many beta behaviors etc and no longer be her Hypergamous best option.
War Brides were “Deeply Converted” until a warring tribe came in and killed all their men and became their new Hypergamous/survival best option and then suddenly those guys they were “Deeply Converted” to don’t mean shit to them anymore.
This is all just fluff from a guy getting older (Krauser not Rollo) trying to find answers and label his game as sooper speshul sekret magic to probably sell a product down the road.
Mystery Method wasn’t about just getting laid, it was about making girls fall in love with you, “Deep Conversion” style where she feels like your souls are intertwined and all that shit. This is just that, but relabelled and woo-woo’ed up.
Hypergamy rules all. Deep Conversion is just “a lot of attraction for a long period of time” and goes out the window when you stop triggering her Hypergamy. There’s no point in giving it another label besides “really attracted to you” ’cause it just muddies the waters for men learning. “Oh I don’t want to just hook up, I want this DEEP CONVERSION STUFF!!! Especially as a Blue Pill guy discovering the Red Pill!!” Guess how you get “Deep Conversion”, you just do the same thing you do to get hook ups but take it further (aka execute Mystery Method PROPERLY and in FULL).
“@SJF: I understood that, it just seems that thinking of having a deeply converted woman as an ideal end goal seems very close to the classic BP ideal.”
That’s because it IS lol “Deep Conversion” is just a guy’s red pill attempt at finding True Unconditional Love, and he’s ignoring that as soon as he lost his mojo (aka stopped triggering her Hypergamy) suddenly it’s gone. THIS IS JUST STANDARD NORMAL ATTRACTION lol there’s no reason to put some other label on it except that when you don’t get much of it it seems like it’s a special secret and needs it’s own label.
Here’s Julien explaining how to get “””””Deep Conversion”””””” by just following the standard pickup principles that give girls EMOTIONAL IMPACT and the full rollercoaster of emotions (positive and negative):
This is just a guy who’s not running game “properly” accidentally running it properly and labelling it as something magical ’cause he doesn’t REALIZE/ACCEPT that he’s generally not running game properly (massive emotional impact and the full rollercoaster of emotions (positive and negative)).
And because he’s getting old he’s hoping that “Deep Conversion” will be “Unconditional/True Love” ’cause fully swallowing the Red Pill and accepting that no matter how much she “loves” you if you stop triggering her Hypergamy she’s going to lose attraction for you, is too depressing for most guys to accept.
If “Deep Conversion” doesn’t last when you stop triggering her Hypergamy then it’s just NORMAL ATTRACTION but LOTS of it lol But it’s the same shit that follows the same rules and is achieved the same way.
“This is standard red pill repackaged as a new term that generates oneitis in women, until it doesn’t. Come on.”
This lol Glad other guys spoke up ’cause I was like “well this seems bullshitty but do I want to get into ANOTHER debate against the entire TRM crowd?” lol
“LTR’s are an ongoing process. And have to be taken as they come.”
This. ALL relationships are an ongoing process. Even the initial pickup is a second to second process. You can go up or down in value and you can be triggering her Hypergamy one minute and then not triggering it the next and her attraction goes up or down based on that…she may not instantly DUMP you the second she feels less attraction if you’ve invested in her and shit, like she might hold out hope that you’ll go back to triggering it ASAP, but she’s still going to feel less attraction, it’s hardwired, “Attraction is not a choice” and all.
“Deep Conversion” = a disillusioned Red Pill guy’s label for “Unconditional Love” ’cause it gives him hope that he’ll be able to lock a girl down longterm as he gets older, but when he “loses his mojo” the girl will lose Attraction. That’s just how it goes.
I’d even argue that using labels like “Deep Conversion” are as damaging to men as “Unconditional/True Love” or saying marriage/monogamy will make the girl stay with you etc because they give the guy a false sense of “if I do this thing she’ll just love my soul and then maybe I can relax and don’t have to deal with the burden of performance anymore”. Nope, no cheat codes sorry.
She will continually test you and if you fail those tests by executing beta behaviors, she will lose Attraction, even if she felt like your souls were intertwined.
“If you were right, how come women maintain some permanent, ideal “love” for the Alpha that got away (or worse, the one no man will ever be able to compare to, the Alpha who died)?”
Because he isn’t around to fail her shit-tests and lower his value to her and lose her Attraction. If he was around she might eventually come to see some of his weaknesses/flaws and he might fail tests or lose his mojo, but a dead man remains “perfect” so real life guys have a much higher bar to match to beat his value (but they CAN, see my next paragraph).
“According to what you mention (War Brides dynamics), they should be able to move on quickly to the next best option she can get. Yet, years later, they still think about him.”
The War Brides moving on is because Hypergamy isn’t just the best guy, it’s the best guy her hindbrain thinks she can reasonably get. ie – a dead guy technically no longer has survival/replication use to her VS the foreign barbarian that slaughtered her dead guy, and it’s necessary for her survival/replication for her to be able to focus her Hypergamy on these new guys.
Whereas a woman who’s alpha just dies naturally and she’s put back into a modern day dating scene, will have a hard time getting over him because other guys aren’t going to compare to him and she doesn’t have the same survival/replication urgency that a War Brides tribe slaughter situation has. She has the “luxury” of being able to not get over him quickly.
“I’d agree there seems like there is such a thing as a woman’s completely irrational infatuation for the Hypergamous ideal.”
Agreed, but that’s just NORMAL ATTRACTION (done properly). As soon as he isn’t the Hypergamous ideal, it’s gone. There’s no reason to repackage it with another label except to muddy the waters, or make yourself (Krauser not Rollo) feel special, or sell a product.
@Not Born This Morning
““Deep conversion” is at best temporary, and those who expect to manifest it in order to facilitate validation of idealistic unconditional love really never succeed because the need for idealistic unconditional love is born from insecurity and lack of self respect which are primary turn offs.”
You got it.
“I believe a lot of deep conversion is not reached because hypergamy is so often never fully satisfied in the age of birth control. So few get the object of the hypergamous drive… The kids.”
This. “Deep conversion” is just PROPERLY ATTRACTING HER lol It’s flipping ALL of the switches Mystery laid out instead of just flipping enough to get laid or keep a fuckbuddy around etc. Like I’ve said, the 7 hours Mystery thing wasn’t about just getting laid, you can get laid way faster than that, the 7 hours was the bare minimum to get her to “fall in love” with you.
Birth control and men being pussies etc might make it harder for them to trigger her Hypergamy properly, but that doesn’t change that when you trigger it properly, you get this “deep conversion” which is just “LOTS OF ATTRACTION” and will STILL vanish when you stop triggering her Hypergamy (aka “lose your mojo”).
Now if this shit could make it so she stays attracted even AFTER you’ve “lost your mojo” and are no longer triggering her Hypergamy, hey, cool, let’s give THAT a new label and discuss the dynamics of it.
But what’s being described is just PROPERLY GAMING GIRLS lol
inb4 “but YaReally you’ve NEVER had a girl DEEPLY CONVERTED!! You don’t understand TRUE LOVE!! You don’t understand souls! You talk about fuckbuddies so you’ve only been in the stereotypical shallow fuckbuddy arrangements and don’t understand any of this way deeper level shit we’re talking about, one day when you’re older you’ll understand what it’s TRULY like to have a woman TRULY surrender her SOUL to you”
Sorry, this needs a slight addition that I didn’t think of till I read Sentient’s birth control bit:
“when it’s really just an expansion of a thing he’s not doing properly (either by choice (ie – I try to purposely AVOID this situation) or by lack of knowledge (Krauser’s style of low emotional-impact game))”
That should have also said “or by external circumstances preventing it (birth control, logistical issues, lack of time, etc)”
The point is if you don’t do ABC you don’t get D, but ABC is what Mystery Method is teaching and what it’s supposed to look like. This is a guy who’s game is based around running AB not getting D, who’s occasionally hitting AB AND C and getting D and labeling that as special shit when it’s really just what he’s technically “supposed” to be doing.
“Furthermore, how much does race play a factor in hypergamy/dating.”
Certain minorities have certain stereotypes attributed to them that may give you an initial level of value to the girl. But that becomes completely irrelevant when you run proper game, she removes you from the category of “indian asexual dude similar to Apu or a guy who works in I.T.” and puts you in a category of “attractive guy” where you’re an “other” in her mind…you just AREN’T like “those” guys and she even expects YOU to know that about yourself. As the old mantra goes: PUA is the exception to the rules.
“Does red pill awareness trump all that?”
Yup. Not red pill awareness though, actually EXECUTING GAME trumps it. You can be all sorts of aware but it doesn’t matter, what matters is how you act in set lol
“I’ve been using Tinder and some other dating sites,”
Ditch online/Tinder dating. Don’t waste your energy on it, it’ll just fuck with your self-esteem. Same with if you’re short or ugly etc Because those sites don’t allow you to demonstrate your value (aka execute game), they reduce everything down to looks and some profile text that she may not even read if you aren’t her type looks-wise. If you’re a minority that isn’t considered attractive by her, or too short or ugly or whatever, she’s not going to bother reading your profile because she doesn’t WANT to be attracted to you because she’s already assuming you’re low value.
Online stuff basically removes a ton of displays of value that you would be demonstrating if you engaged her in person…it’s like a beautiful car with a scratch on it and the profile pic is just a zoom-in of that scratch. If the person actually took that car for a test drive they’d probably love it, but all they see online is a close-up of that scratch and they extrapolate form there.
If you aren’t a decent-ish looking average white dude bare minimum, don’t waste your time online. Most of the time it’ll just fuck with your self-esteem because you’ll hear how easy it is to get laid online (they won’t mention that it’s often by average/ugly chicks though) and when your inbox is empty you’ll just start to feel like YOU are unattractive. It’s just not good for your inner confidence to bother with it.
Ditch the online shit and hit the field to game in person. Whatever Apu from 7-11 attributes she labels you with if she sees you from across the room will be obliterated when you start spiking her emotions and then she takes you out of that category. Social circle game (VS cold approach) can help too, since you get an automatic value boost from having social circle value.
“I even go out to the clubs/ bars but no luck. I have no problem talking to girls or getting their #…I’d like to chalk it down to my game being weak but everyone makes it sound like Tinder, clubs, Halloween are the easiest situations to hookup. Not me, lol.”
Post Field Reports and we can help you narrow down where you’re fucking up in your live interactions and can help you tighten that up. Otherwise it’s just a guessing game to help ya.
Most of my good wings have been minorities and lots of my social circles have a bunch (because they’re usually the ones who weren’t getting laid and had REASON to learn game lol)…it always comes down to the same thing: the ones with decent game (learned or Natural or just happening to flip the right switches by fluke when they’re hammered) get laid, the ones with shitty game don’t lol
“but he changed such that the deep conversion shifted”
Then it was just attraction. Good ol’ normal “there when you trigger her hypergamy, gone when you stop triggering her hypergamy (for whatever reason)”. No reason to give it some mystical name that makes guys think they might be able to cheat the system and not have the burden of performance or have to pass shit-tests or “keep their mojo” up (having bottle model jobs, having good mindsets (Blax), etc).
Like, there’s just no reason to repackage/relabel this is all lol
“The game played very well.”
This lol That’s why I say it’s just Mystery Method. MM isn’t all about only being a super aloof alpha, there’s the rapport and comfort shit in there too. This is just flipping ALL the switches properly.
But Krauser is a guy who stubbornly sticks to his style of game he’s marketed himself as having, so he’s just not flipping all the switches often and when he does it seems like something “special” to him so out comes a new label.
“If you plot raw attraction against ASD/pre-emptive rejection, you’d probably see a U. At the lower end she’s on guard for fear of sleeping with or doing something silly with a low quality man. At the higher end she’s on guard for just being a sex object and there being no possibility the guy would actually stay. In the sweet spot, her guard is completely down.”
“Now you can say ‘oh that’s just your game scray” but idk….whenever I toss some beta traits in there, all of a sudden the girls chase.”
MM *HAS* some beta shit IN it, if people would ever actually look at MM lol Most of the Rapport/Comfort stuff is about doing some beta shit like opening up to her and letting her feel like she’s winning you over or seeing some special side of her. Just like Julien is explaining in that video about making girls become obsessed with you when he talks about telling them like he feels like they’re the only ones he can open up to (to balance out the asshole player side of him they know) etc
That’s doing game PROPERLY. That’s IT. There’s nothing special/unique going on lol
Now a guy may have reasons for not running that balanced game, like if I just want casual FBs I’ll do less of certain things and more of other things, but like, there’s nothing new going on here, nothing that deserves a new label.
“But ya you can generate the “we’re soulmates, you’re my sun and moon” bullshit pretty easily.”
This lol Like, most of the guys who think the soulmate feeling stuff is rare are guys who don’t know how to trigger it quickly ’cause they aren’t running MM properly and aren’t watching that Julien video I just linked etc They’re used to getting the level of attraction the average normal guy gets which is “a good amount”, and then occasionally they get “LOTS of attraction” and settle into LTRs with those girls, and every once in a while for whatever reasons they manage to flip all the right switches and hit the right balance with a girl and hit that “souls intertwining” shit and it BLOWS THEIR FUCKING MIND.
But like, you can just trigger that whenever you want if you game properly and circumstances allow for it (like you can get enough face time with her etc).
“Actually I think this should include all of the social repercussions that followed birth control, the Sexual Revolution, the social imperative to feminize boys and men, the era of social media, and lots of other variables that reinforce and reward women emotionally and financially for perpetuating this Hypergamous doubt about men in general.”
Agreed. Like I say, when you execute ABC properly, you get D. It doesn’t matter WHY you don’t execute C properly, whether it’s birth control, social media, logistics, bad game, whatever, if C isn’t there then you don’t get D. But as long as you execute ABC (however you do it, natural skillset, learned skillset, pure fluke, having a boost in value ahead of time (social circles, preselection etc)) you get D. That’s what you’re SUPPOSED to learn how to do when you study pickup (MM etc) and then pull back from there to the type of relationships that fit your life the best.
“So, as I pointed out, you grandfather’s and his father’s generations were far more likely to sustain this deep conversion (or perpetuated attraction if you like) because the terms for sustaining it were different for women then”
Agree completely. This goes back to the marriage stuff. In a previous society even the LITTLE things, like “guy goes off to work and wife HAS NO COMMUNICATION WITH HIM until he’s back on the doorstep again, he could be dead in a fire or fucking some other girl or WHO KNOWS WHAT”, that was VERY different in terms of maintaining long-term Hypergamy/dread/value than now where guys txt a girl all day long. All these little things add up and made things easier for men in the past to maintain their value and society ENCOURAGED it VS now where the FI brainwashes men to neuter their own value (like how JASYK would even THINK about being a minority being an issue with girls, where did that come from? That came from the FI/society around him).
“@Ya, actually I believe you already experienced this Deep Conversion from your first girlfriend and it made separating from her all the more difficult.”
All I did was run MM properly on her lol I just did ABC and got D. And I broke up with her while I was her best Hypergamous option, so I removed the ability for me to “lose my mojo” to her. She’s my alpha widow because in her mind she sees the last version of me she remembers which was the me that was triggering her Hypergamy hardcore. So I could probably txt her tomorrow and get back together.
But if I had stayed with her and lost my mojo or otherwise stopped triggering her Hypergamy, she would have lost attraction and done the exact same things other women who lose attraction for their man do.
It’s black and white and consistent across the board. There’s no cheat code where she’s going to stay attracted to me even if I stop triggering her Hypergamy.
“Yes, it was sustaining her attraction, but there’s a marked difference between a woman for whom you represent her Hypergamous ideal and one who’s attraction is just a casual thing.”
Yes, but that’s just degrees of the same thing. That’s like saying “there’s a marked difference between a medium pizza and a large pizza so we’re going to call a large pizza a banana”. They’re the same thing, one is just further up the scale than the other, there’s no actual difference except in degree and no functional difference and no reason to relabel one of them and make it sound like it’s some special pizza with unique ingredients. It’s the exact same as the medium pizza except a bigger degree of it.
That’s why I say if this did something new like prevented them from leaving you when you stop triggering their Hypergamy, then okay, we’ve found some amazing new thing to discuss because that’s an actual change. But this is just relabelling “more/better game” into something that sounds like an Unconditional Love cheat code to new guys.
I think guys really don’t understand how easy this is to do when you understand the dynamics of it. That’s part of why Blue Pill people hate PUA, is we codified how to trigger this magic soul mate connection stuff. Julien is LITERALLY laying it out step by step in that video I linked that no one will actually watch lol I can trigger the same level of soulmate connection that I had with my LTR, in a casual fuckbuddy or a One Night Stand, if I just execute ABC.
I think most guys never learn how to consciously do it so they attribute it to being some special rare connection. But like, it’s all laid out in MM and that Julien vid etc lol But nobody likes to watch the surgeon dissect the beautiful human body into cold codified parts.
“One reason having sex with a virgin is so potentially volatile in the long term is because you being her first is something she’ll always remember.”
It just gives you a nice value boost ’cause she attaches a bunch of good emotions to you. If you stop triggering her Hypergamy, that will vanish. That’s literally how Buyer’s Remorse works…she’s happy she fucked you until she isn’t and then she regrets it and it was the worst mistake of her life and rape etc But if you take her for an Egg McMuffin and keep giving her the good feels, she’ll stay happy she fucked you.
“You’ll be the benchmark (for better or worse) for her comparison of anyone else she bangs in her life.”
Sure, because I’m not there to “lose my mojo” around her. If I lost my mojo around her, she would lose attraction. This is why guys thinking banging some EE/thai virgin is going to be their cheat code are retarded. They’re subject to the exact same “always trigger her Hypergamy” rules as anyone else (which is why entering a relationship structure that makes it harder to keep triggering her Hypergamy is playing the game on Hard Mode for no real benefit since she’ll leave if she’s lost Hypergamy (which you’ve voluntarily made more difficult to maintain) either way)
“The MRP sub is littered with stories of guys whose wives love them well enough, and may be attracted to them well enough to sustain that marriage, but they simply don’t see their husbands as a Hypergamous ideal”
Those guys don’t have the game to trigger her Hypergamy properly. They’re not running ABC, they’re running, like, A. lol
“or they pine for the Alphas (imagined or real) from their past or idealized men who they think might fill the role better.”
Because those men aren’t around to stop/fail at triggering their Hypergamy, and the guys they’re with don’t have the game to trigger her Hypergamy better. ABC = D.
“And just as an aside here, Krauser wrote this post back in 2012. Not sure that figures into your estimation of him wanting to rethink his Red Pill life like Roosh in the now.”
Dude is like 40+. He’s got a renewed enthusiasm for the game right now but there was a point where he seemed miserable as fuck and usually that’s the result of guys trying to process “well shit, what do I do in the LONG term with this??” He might have a different view now and that’s totally cool with me, but guys past 35 who’ve been doing PUA for a long time tend to start thinking about that stuff just because they realize “hmm, wait, is there an endgame here?” and that’s where a lot of them start seeking out Blue Pill “Unconditional Love” solutions, throwing out their entire Red Pill knowledge base.
Which is why I make fun of them and the marriage debates here…we all LOVE the Red Pill on the weekends when we talk about slaying pussy, until the overall long-term life answers the Red Pill is showing are uncomfortable to us and then we throw it all out and try to fight it and find cheat codes etc instead of accepting the Red Pill fully and working within what we’ve been watching you write about for 5 years lol
“FYI, 90% of men will not tag more than 30 women by age 34. So their judgment of ‘hooking up’ and what’s easy to do while ‘hooking up’ is probably stupid.”
This lol Not even 30 women. I know cool social guys in their mid-30s that go out regularly but just don’t have game or have Blue Pill mindsets who have a total count of like, 4 lol But they’ll talk a big game when we predrink.
“There is a running streak of sentimentalism through this and recent threads. Guys in LTRs offering up detailed credentials with the obvious flavour of redirected male idealism writ large. I am of the 20 year OMG ilk too but, this strain of virulent domesticity on here, sends me back to the sometimes blunt language of TRP. Deep conversion? Deep complacency.”
That’s why I keep stomping on it lol Probably a side effect of everyone getting older. But it alienates the young guys who are dealing with a world that doesn’t look anything like what these guys are reminiscing about.
“you yourself found one with “looks don’t matter” and there are lots of guys who know that’s just the beginning of the rabbit hole”
Those aren’t cheat codes though. They’re just “how things actually work, but our social conditioning has blinded us to seeing/accepting that”.
They SEEM like cheat codes, just like the “Deep Conversion” SEEMS like it’s special to guys who don’t know how to get “Deep Conversion” regularly and understand how it’s just a larger pizza with the right balance of toppings but nothing fundamentally different or special, but they aren’t ACTUALLY cheat codes. They’re just the natural order of things.
“Could it be…..”
lol’ed hard at your drunk FR and even harder at the absolutely perfect Fight Club pic.
The sad part is I totally understood your drunk FR lol I’ve written a few of those myself😦
“I really don’t give a fuck if I get called a beta for doing some beta stuff…it’s necessary in a relationship…a little goes a long way…you still need lots of alpha behavior…creating tingles and drama…give a girl a complete emotional feast…she won’t feel like she needs orbiters to give her comfort and validation”
This goes back to everyone flipping their shit on Scray because he said some behaviors are “beta”. The Manosphere has this “beta = bad, alpha = good” James Bond “only ever be alpha 100% 24/7 or else if you do ONE beta thing, even if it benefits the relationship, you are a BETA MINDSET LOSER CHODE LOSER” baggage that prevents real discussion.
Like I say, parts of MM from way back in the early 2000s involve doing beta behaviors to reach the right balance of shit, that’s what you’re calibrating in interactions. That’s literally the whole point of qualifying her and using SOIs after you have A2 etc.
Most of the Manosphere has never ACTUALLY studied MM in depth and is working off what they THINK MM is, and is still chasing that retarded Chad Thundercock James Bond version of “alpha” and LARP’ing about beta/alpha, so when Scray says “this is a beta behavior” it gets warped as fuck and he becomes the bad guy for triggering everyone’s baggage lol
“also someone give me some tips on my text game from a couple days ago plz k thx bye”
You solved it yourself in that FR lol Spike them and get them on the phone ASAP where you can communicate more subcomms and engage them deeper (and keep them engaged in ONE conversation instead of the 10 txt convos she has going (though even then I’ve known some girls who can talk on the phone with headphones while simultaneously carrying on txt conversations with their friends on the same phone (AND send me screenshots OF those txt convos happening jesus lol welcome to <25yo 8+/10s in 2016))).
Following up my response to you there, was this excellent post by Pellaeon at the end of the SMV Aging Process article that probably no one saw so I’m cut and pasting it:
“ok well this whole mindset stuff just seems an awful lot like a way to hamster everything under the sun as alpha ‘so long as you FELT LIKE IT BRO’ … you can’t be 100% super alpha unless you’re planning on a life of just ONS and that’s it. so if you want any female companionship beyond that, you’re going to rely on some beta traits.
but because the manosphere is so up the butt with ‘alpha = good’ we’re just gonna keep on with this “formulation” I guess.”
I didn’t realize how much I missed you and YaReally til now.
I 100% agree and cosign this. There is such a fixation with “alpha = good” that many people refuse to say something is beta that contributes to a successful relationship.
But literally, from an ego psych perspective, the beta strategy is resources for sex. It’s built into the mantra: alpha fucks (ie genes/short term mating) and beta bucks (ie resources/long term mating). Women have a plural sexual strategy – they feel pulled by both competing needs. Alpha builds arousal and drives the desire for fucking, beta builds bonding and drives the desire for companionship.
Athol Kay, in the original non-cuck version of MMSL, built a model that exactly represented this idea- beta and alpha as separate “sliders” with values distinct from each other.
That sliders and values distinct from eachother thing is a good description.
Her: What is that?
call her on voice”
You got it. 🙂 It doesn’t have to make sense remember. All you need is to trigger enough curiosity for her to pick up the phone because on the phone is where you’re going to do the actual gaming instead of over txt.
ie – don’t think “how can I get her Attracted and then call her”, think “how can I get her to pick up the phone so I can get her Attracted”
Tyler joked that recently he was trying stuff like promising the girl a romantic dinner on him like full chode shit to where the girl would come out literally expecting to just milk some beta chode for a free dinner, because he knew that as long as he got them in person one on one where he could game them, he would turn that impression around and get them actually attracted to him lol
The goal is to get into the ideal circumstance where you can spit game at her, as soon as possible, by whatever means necessary. If she was curious enough to ask “What is that?”, she’s probably curious enough to answer the phone. And if she doesn’t answer, either leave a voicemail with some DHVs in it, or txt her teasing her for not answering and being shy etc But don’t try to run your game over txt esp on old numbers that have died off. It’s not that it CAN’T work, it’s just not as efficient as getting them on the phone where you can demonstrate more subcomms etc
“I don’t care much for “deep conversion”. I like the term bonding better.”
ya, the term “conversion” itself is the main thing that bothers me (aside from there being no point to differentiating it really). Conversion implies like, hey, you CHANGED her, now you can sit back and relax, she’s CHANGED, she’s been CONVERTED. She’ll “un-convert” as soon as you stop triggering her Hypergamy properly lol so it’s not really a conversion, or it’s temporary enough a conversion to not be worth naming it that when that word comes with so many connotations to guys learning about the red pill who are trying to still find ways to get that Unconditional Love.
If he had just called it like “deep connection”, cool, that’s just a large pizza instead of a medium pizza but follows the same rules and is achieved by the same actions…but “Deep Conversion” is a bad name for it.
“Stupidly i am going away from my hotel…”
“The bigger degree is the point.”
It’s irrelevant though. What does that bigger degree of investment get a guy? Nothing. She will 180 on him in a War Brides situation and will lose Attraction if he stops triggering Hypergamy.
“but he was talking about the girl being all into him”
Like I said, this is what MM and traditional PUA teaches.
“Once again, not about the girl investing, but the degree of her investing.”
It’s just irrelevant. A large pizza IS bigger than a medium pizza, but it’s just a pizza. There’s no point calling it a banana. It functions and behaves exactly the same way a medium pizza does and is subject to the same rules so why bother making muddy water distinctions?
“You and Scray are explicitly saying you want the girl to stop short of full investment, right?”
We do this on purpose, not because we don’t understand how to get deep investment or what it is. It’s all just the same pizza.
“The point Krauser was trying to make is that his ideal actually is: “Total submission of body and soul in which the woman trusts and admires you so much she presents her whole being to you to do as you please.””
There’s no such thing as Total submission. There’s “Total submission in the moment while you’re still triggering her Hypergamy…but that will be completely removed if you stop triggering her Hypergamy (or pro-actively un-trigger it lol)”
Calling it this separate label shit adds all this “so if you can do this cheat code then you’ll have TOTAL submission” connotation that gives Blue Pill guys hope that they can cheat the system.
If you run proper ABC = D game, you will get “total submission of body and soul in which the woman trusts and admires you so much she presents her whole being to you to do as you please” from a girl you’ve met in a very short period of time and can trigger it on purpose and consistently with lots of girls if you want.
But that’s just ATTRACTION. That’s just “A LOT OF ATTRACTION” lol That’s not some special attraction with special rules. When you lose Hypergamy, she will no longer feel that way about you. The mechanic itself is just standard attraction.
“I don’t see this as the same thing as properly executed PUA game.”
That’s because you do the same thing Krauser is doing with your million labels or Sentient with his DPA etc to try to make what you’re doing seem different/special. You guys just like to muddy the waters so you can add your own copyright labels to shit lol
“Yes the Degree matters. And the woman having been deeply converted does matter at points in time when a LTR guy does have a lapse in triggering her Hypergamy because it comes in handy there until he regains the ability to control his circumstances.”
Like I said in my original post, you might buy yourself a bit of extra time to slack off if you’ve invested a lot and she feels guilty peacing out on you right away, or like if she doesn’t have Hypergamously better options than you available etc, but you’re not buying much time and you better get your shit back on track fast.
And again, this is just EXACTLY WHAT MM/PUA TEACHES lol This magic connection shit is the way you’re SUPPOSED to do LTRs, we’ve taught it from the start lol
“Bonding is not something you can create. You can provide the essentials but the bond is from her. It is almost immaterial what you do. Either the chemistry is there. Or it is not.”
Nah, you can create a lot of that stuff consciously on purpose. Lasers plus cutting space, specific rapport/comfort routines, etc
“The change from unbonded to bonded is quite material. The number and level of shit tests goes way down. Way, way, down.”
And when you start to fail some of them, the number of them will increase again, and when you fail enough of them and/or are no longer her best Hypergamous option, she will lose Attraction. This is hard-wired. Attraction is not a choice.
@having a bad day
“scray already explained this… lol… this is just ‘basic’ calibration…”
This lol like what do you guys think pickup IS??? Has ANYONE read MM?? Does ANYONE read Juggler?? lol
It’s like people are seeing someone drive down a straight road without swerving off and labelling it some new driving technique. It’s called “driving properly”, that’s what it looks like and what you’re taught to DO lol
“aaand, doing it properly = you NEED to pump the alpha BEHAVIORS to get massive attraction FIRST… and then dial that attraction back by sliding in some beta BEHAVIORS… calibrated to keep you in her ‘zone of hypergamous optimization’… (maybe 2 points up from what she thinks she is…)… ”
“and this is why we are saying that ‘beta’ behaviors are not ‘bad’…lol… they are a NECESSARY part of calibration… which leads to her hypergamous optimization… which ALSO leads to the possibility of stable LTRs…”
And this. That’s why it goes A1-A3 THEN C1 – C3. Attraction FIRST, so that she has A2 and WANTS your Comfort. This is why normal guys suck when they approach, they don’t understand A1-A3 at ALL so they just open and try to go right into C1 and the girl doesn’t WANT the C1 yet. The C1-C3 BALANCE OUT the A1-A3.
THIS IS BASIC MYSTERY METHOD lol The 7 hours thing was about the minimum time it takes to get this DEEP SOUL TOUCHING GIVE HER BODY MIND AND SOUL TO YOU connection. That’s why it was so AMAZING that he codified it like that lol
“lol. if you can get a “deep conversion” regularly then it’s not really a deep conversion. and it’s not just a larger pizza.”
“but outside of guys like Manson, you can’t make her willing to violate her most deeply held moral convictions or go to prison for you in a night. no fucking way.”
That’s what guys who can’t get deep conversion regularly think because it’s an outlier special thing that happens. It’s LITERALLY laid out in Mystery Method, that Julien video, etc how to purposely trigger that deep a connection.
Fucking Blue Pill jizzing all over this place lately lol wtf are you guys DOING infield??
Straight up: who here has legitimately read Mystery Method cover to cover and watched his seminars where he explains stuff in more depth (and ideally gone out and followed MM start to end a bunch, but I’ll settle for even just actually reading it lol)?
And who here has watched that Julien clip I linked up above (and ideally some more RSD clips about that subject)?
Like, we’re having a conversation where where one side is WILDLY misinformed or lacking education about the subject and thinks that the baseline thing that we DO is some special magic that can only be done rarely.
The reason you guys think it can’t be done quickly is because it took you a long time to groom it in your girls, so you assume “well I’m awesome, and it took me X time and circumstances (to hit the right switches partly consciously and partly by fluke)” and can’t imagine that you can build that “go to jail for you” connection FAST. And you’ll just disqualify any girls we do it with as “oh well that wasn’t a REAL connection” or “oh that was just a certain type of girl” etc etc because this goes outside of your reality.
Why do you guys think Mystery Method was so mindblowing to everyone and spawned a massive wave like it did? It wasn’t just because “hey we can get our dick wet and get some basic attraction for a few hours”. It was because he was literally unlocking how to get this level of deep connection you guys keep describing, but FAST, like 7 hours of face time with her.
What Scray and I are doing is the MODIFIED version of MM/PUA so that we can have more casual relationships. What MM/PUA teaches at it’s core is GETTING this Manson style “violate her morals for you” connection FAST.
“Who has had women bear their offspring?”
lol the only reason I don’t have a fucking ARMY of baby YaReallys out there is because of condoms. But the VAST majority of the girls I fuck would HAPPILY get preggers by me or try to stick it in raw (running on their hindbrain emotions in the moment BECAUSE I’M RUNNING PROPER GAME TRIGGERING THEIR HYPERGAMY lol) etc
TIL guys don’t really know what PUA is. wtf.
“any common born man with advanced pua knowledge (mystery, julien, etc) who made claims like “I deep convert women all the time” would immediately use his social skills to rise through the ranks of society to the very pinnacle of power.”
lolol that’s your weird insecurities over whatever powerlessness/envy of more important people than you that you have in your life coming through dude. This is possibly the dumbest logic I’ve ever heard. “PUA don’t real because none of them has taken over the world” lol
“of course this has never happened and the so called great puas will die common men”
Remember how when I talked about AMOG’ing I said that what people attack you with tends to be what they’re insecure about themselves? Just saying.
“just as every pua could declare his intent to seduce and bed an internationally recognizable target and then easily follow through using his super powerful deep conversion methods for the whole red pill pua world to see but for some reason this never happens…”
1) You get me 7+ hours in isolation one on one with Megan Fox and I’ll be happy to give it a shot lol
2) Announcing it ahead of time would ruin the organic “it just happened” magic for her if she heard about it
and 3) I’m certain that if a PUA were to seduce a celebrity (it has NEVER EVER EVER happened though, we know this because they haven’t told fleezer about it), the FIRST thing they would do is announce to the world that they used PUA tactics to seduce a celebrity so they can ruin her reputation and career and undermine all the organic “it just happened” feels of the whole thing, and then post video evidence of their dick going inside her vagina for you to masturbate to so they can earn fleezer’s e-props. Because literally the entire world is based around what fleezer thinks of people lol You’re trapped in this massively low-vibration mindset man, it can’t be healthy for ya.
“so also the idea that one of these guys could get a girl he just met 7 hours ago to blow him while his friends cut the living fetus out of a pregnant movie star is laughable. and of course, this will never be tested so make all the wild claims you want”
Not in 7 hours but exponentially less time than people would think. Chicks will do all SORTS of fucked up shit and violate all sorts of ethics/codes just to get a fucking ORGASM, or a hit of heroin, or for some abusive white trash boyfriend, etc.
Like what is this sudden “Women Are Wonderful” shit? Now they’re so infallible and in control of their emotions and resistant to influence that a guy can’t come along, poke the right emotions, and get them to do shit for them? Buncha strong independent womyn AWALTS now?
Too much fucking FI-based LARP’ing theory going on ’round here lately lol
I mean what do you think Manson or Hitler or cult leaders or abusive spouses or kidnappers that end up with the victim getting stockholm syndrome etc are doing…some magic special secret technique that no one’s ever figured out? lol
They’re just doing the exact same (consciously or by fluke or by circumstance) things that Mystery laid out or that the high school jock is naturally doing, but with specific goals in mind and specific focuses on different parts of it to lead the girls toward a goal.
These guys just naturally understand or are by fluke pulling off flipping these switches. But they’re not doing anything different. They pace peoples’ realities, they set strong frames that other people get sucked into, they screen for people with weaker frames to make it easier (in Manson’s case), they apply social pressure (cults etc), they lead, they use the full range of emotions, etc etc
It’s all the same pizza, just different sizes. There’s no reason to label it “Manson Game” “Hitler Game” “Trump Game” “Relationship Game” “Deep Conversion Game” “Day Game” “AMOG Game” “Scientology Game” “Cult Game” “Social Circle Game” etc, it’s all the same shit: you flip the switches in people and they react a predictable way most of the time. If you learn to flip those switches quickly, you get that end result faster. If you learn to flip those switches consciously you can lead them toward things.
“attraction, even heavy deep attraction is entirely different from conversion.”
Flowery nonsense based in the FI view that “love is DIFFERENT” and the desire to believe that “what I have with MY girls is SPESHUL, no one else, especially some PUA I hate, could EVER get THIS from girls, especially not faster than *I* did it” lol Full facepalm shit.
“say what you want about manson, but there is no denying he was special and that him and his buddy had not only skills but the will to do as they pleased”
They did the exact same stuff that’s laid out in MM because that’s the exact same stuff that’s laid out in any instructional “how to influence people” guide for any area of life. It’s all the same thing. They just took it to a more fucked up place.
“are you sure? maybe you’re impotent.”
I hope so, then your mom and I can finally rawdog it like she’s been begging for.
Friday night everyone. Go out and try to ****DEEP CONVERT(TM)(TM)(R)(C)(TM)**** girls lol
(and to pre-empt the spergs who, when I say “there’s no point labelling it “social circle game” or “daygame””, are already typing up “BUT TEH RSD HAS SOCIAL SIRCLE GAME PRODUCT!!111 R U SAYING RSD IS WRONG!?!”, I mean the switches that you’re flipping in social circle game or daygame or that Manson was flipping etc are the exact same switches you flip in just normal “game”…”Social Circle” game is a focus on a different overall strategy for getting into a position TO flip those switches, but it all comes down to the same switches…it’s all the same pizza, just like “Deep Conversion”)
“I’m still not buying it’s all the same, just different size pizza.”
You don’t have to. You don’t have to believe in gravity either lol
“I mean that was great what Julien did to the Doctor girl. And it made for a great story. But the switches he was flipping were just for a few bites of pizza. (cock-roaches or not).”
Extrapolate and use common sense. All this long term shit is the same as short term shit. You’re only dividing it because you insist on trying to separate “LTR Game” from “Pickup Game” so you can have a seat at the table and feel like you bring some special expertise and wisdom on this special unique game that’s “different”. It’s all the same pizza lol MMSL is LITERALLY a plan that forces guys into flipping the Attraction switches (not the “SHORT TERM” attraction switches lol there’s just “attraction switches”, it’s all the same shit).
“it is entirely different for a man to get a woman to abandon her long term sexual strategy”
Hypergamy doesn’t care. If you stop triggering her Hypergamy and some other guy triggers it and her hindbrain thinks she has a realistic shot at getting him, she will bail/cheat.
If what he’s doing made women “abandon their long-term sexual strategy” then he could quit his job and lay on the couch being a piece of shit begging for sex and have zero ambition or passion or charisma and she would turn down Chad Thundercock for him.
She wouldn’t do that, we all know that, so they aren’t “abandoning” fuck all. It’s bullshit that muddies the water and confuses newbies who WANT to believe they can find a loophole around Hypergamy so they can unshoulder the burden of performance, which fucks them over.
You guys are literally suggesting that HYPERGAMY CAN BE BEATEN. This is fucking retarded lol Your own wife didn’t suck your dick when you weren’t triggering her Hypergamy. Now you’re actively triggering it so she’s attracted. YOU CAN’T BEAT HYPERGAMY. Attraction is not a choice. Where the fuck am I right now lol
“Wouldn’t the external method of Julien flipping her switches work differently for a pLTR?”
MMSL = exactly what Julien is doing. Giving her a rollercoaster of emotions, making her feel dread, making her feel like you have preselection, etc etc It’s all the same pizza.
“But what is actually wrong with it as a goal? I can see PUA’s dissing the nomenclature. But having it as a goal in a relationship?”
It’s mainly the name that’s misleading. And the fact that he (Krauser) doesn’t understand that this is just SEDUCTION. This has been the goal from day 1 lol There’s nothing new here, but it’s taking something that’s not new and relabelling it with a misleading label for newbies. It’s achieved the exact same way you achieve normal attraction and it’s subject to the exact same pitfalls that normal attraction is, so why name it something else? It’s just muddying the waters for newbies.
“So we don’t like the term “conversion”? Sounds too permanent and we can’t have noobs thinking they have anything like ‘set it and forget it’?”
This. Take some Blue Pill newbies out into the field and tell them they can convert women then watch what happens when they get into an LTR and think they can “set it and forget it” because she’s “converted”.
“Fine, what registered trademark does Owen or Mystery have that Krauser is infringing on that means the same thing, maybe we can call it that?”
It’s called “SEDUCTION” lol This is the RESULT of properly seducing a woman, this is what MM was made to accomplish. What he’s describing is what seduction is SUPPOSED to be.
“I thought he was pretty clear about the fact that this conversion, or shift in emotional investment, or point of selfless devotion, wasn’t a permanent feature.”
Then “conversion” is a bad name for it. He’s literally just occasionally accidentally discovered that he can pull off proper seduction here and there and, because he normally DOESN’T, it’s blowing his mind to where he has to give a name to it and make it into some mystical shit because to HIM it’s rare. Like before I learned how to do laser eye-contact I thought you just randomly magically connect with girls sometimes and have that sexual tension, but no, it turns out I was just by fluke happening to do laser eye-contact and now that I know how to consciously do it, I can do it with most girls whenever I want to…I didn’t create something new, I’m not going to label it Eye-Magic, it’s just what I was SUPPOSED to be doing from Day 1 but didn’t learn properly so I wasn’t getting the effect that I get when I do it right.
This is like someone knocking over the high-jump pole 80% of the time but 20% of the time he sails right over it and goes:
“man, THIS is special, I need a new name for doing this”
“uh bro it’s called the high-jump”
“no man, you don’t understand, this is DIFFERENT, this isn’t like when I knock the pole down and because I knock the pole down and I’m too full of myself to allow the idea that other people might have better game than me or know something I don’t know (meaning Krauser, not Rollo), I assume everyone else must be knocking the pole down like me so this must be different to all of YOU too.”
“well you’re not SUPPOSED to knock the pole down, like what MM teaches is how to high-jump OVER the pole”
“look man, you don’t understand, you don’t make it over the pole okay? Only us SUPER-PUAs and OMGs make it over the pole. It was hard for me to do so it’s IMPOSSIBLE that you guys could do it.”
“we get over the pole all the time, that’s LITERALLY what MM was teaching us to DO. That’s what the high-jump IS.”
“well what trademark copyright should I use to describe this phenomenon then??”
“I had a girl I was banging who was completely loyal to me…AT THAT TIME…I would have thought it was “Deep conversion”….I still hesitated treating her as a plate. She banged a friend of mine because…..hypergamy.”
This is why it’s stupid lol This is just SEDUCTION. Calling it “conversion” or thinking it’s “different” is dumb…it’s just MORE ATTRACTION lol It’s like “deep comfort” VS “REALLY deep comfort”. They’re the same pizza, there’s no reason to call REALLY deep comfort zomething different, it’s the same as comfort but just MORE of it.
If this short-circuited Hypergamy, then hey, cool, we’ve discovered something new. But it doesn’t. It’s literally just PROPER SEDUCTION.
Again this brings me back to how many people have ACTUALLY read/watched Mystery Method and actually GET that he was figuring out how to make girls fall in LOVE with him, not just touch his dick. Even Julien’s “give her a rollercoaster of emotions” stuff in that video is an extrapolation of Mystery Method to give it more immediate impact (to compete with the stimulus girls have in 2016). It’s all the same pizza.
Like I say: wtf do you guys think we’re DOING out there? Wtf do you think Mystery Method is FOR?
“I like the concept, but I see “deep conversion” still as unicorn thinking….it’s more fantasy than reality.”
Yup. Because it IS. lol
The OMGs think “oh these guys have never experienced DEEP Conversion, they’ve only had LOTS OF ATTRACTION” because they don’t go properly DO this shit and they don’t SEE that yes, we CAN get this shit, it’s what Mystery Method is FOR. Guys who just want a casual thing like myself LEAVE OUT parts of Mystery Method because we don’t WANT the girl to hit “DEEP “”CONVERSION”””(TM)(TM) because it’s annoying to us and our lifestyle lol We are actively NOT doing parts of what we’re SUPPOSED to do, to get the type of relationships we want, but what we learned how to do is GET this “Deep Conversion”, that was the whoel POINT of Mystery Method. That’s why MM even HAS C1-C3 and why Mystery spends hours in that shit instead of the brief 30 seconds I’ll spend in it.
This is guys who don’t know what seduction is supposed to look like, thinking they’ve discovered something new lol It’s just ALL of the pieces of the puzzle in the right place. It’s exactly the same thing the OMGs have managed to do, except they did it by fluke while we have it all laid out in MM, Julien, etc step by step.
Like this nonsense from Blaximus:
“Problem is, for men that haven’t experienced this, it is inconceivable. Hard to grasp. Impossible to execute.”
Guess what, we HAVE experienced this shit, it’s NOT inconceivable, it’s NOT hard to grasp, it’s NOT hard to execute. What if instead of looking down on us condescendingly so you can brag about what a boss you are, you stopped to consider for just a second that MAYBE what you did wasn’t THAT special and maybe it isn’t THAT hard to achieve and maybe, just maybe, it’s been codified into a system and all the wizardry taken out of it.
Exactly like any other part of pickup. “Oh you can’t make girls CHASE you, I did it but I’m super special, you don’t really know what it’s like to experience it, it’s inconceivable, hard to grasp, impossible to execute”
Guess what you just DHV then devalidate them, here are routines A B and C to achieve that. OH SHIT I TOOK ALL THE MAGIC OUT OF IT, NOW YOU’RE NOT SPECIAL ANYMORE. lol
This is the EXACT same argument that feminists give over pickup in GENERAL. “Noooo you can’t predict LOVE!! You can’t just make it HAPPEN like that!! It’s SPECIAL and MAGICAL and DIFFERENT!!” No, it’s the same shit, we broke it down and codified it, we pulled apart the corpse and labelled every part of it. You might not want to watch the surgery channel and you might get an icky feeling thinking humans are just a bunch of organs running on electric impulses (or whatever) instead of magic beings governed by souls given to them by some higher entity.
That’s why MM was such a mind-fuck for everyone. He pulled back the curtain on all of this and said “here are the steps to replicate this consistently if you want to”.
This is why it’s so hard to talk about PUA topics like this with guys who aren’t going out and regularly executing this shit. They have no frame of reference for what we’re doing or experiencing.
“Ok, so now we have Deep Conversion. Does this mean someone’s gonna come up with Shallow Conversion and Medium Conversion, and then some other AMOG will decide that his relationship is Ultra-Deep Conversion with a Deida cherry on top?”
Fucking THIS lol
“Looks like attraction. Deep attraction or not, attraction. Or if you want to, call it commitment. But for crying out loud, do we have to keep on creating new assumptions / terms /etc.?”
THIS. This is just muddying the waters for newbies.
“A likely story. Who did you pick. Juan the mexican bodybuilder or Dominic the artiste?”
“I don’t follow.”
“Lol. Which dude from tinder did you pick for tonight? The bodybuilder or the artist?”
This is why I’m not into text game much anymore. That’s something I would have said back in 2010 and it would have slayed. But now I find they assume the worst possible meaning as a fast-track to rule guys out because they have so many options. So I try not to get cutesy and game like this over txt, I just try to get them on the phone instead where she can hear my tonality etc These days that girl is just as likely to think “OMG THIS GUY IS JEALOUS AND OBSESSIVE” lol
“Q: what is your perception of the goals of RP awareness vs PUA? Must the 2 always match up 100%? Are the goals of both exactly the same?”
It’s all about codifying the truth.
“Do a majority of readers here want RP knowledge in order to achieve the short term goal of pussy, or are you looking for ” something else ” ???”
THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT JEZEBEL WRITES. WHERE AM I?? What happened to this place?? lolol “Oh you don’t want that red pill stuff, that’s just to get laid by drunk bar sluts, if you want a REAL DEEP connection that’s DIFFERENT, it’s MYSTICAL and MAGICAL” No it’s the same shit, just “more” of it lol That’s WHY MMSL recovers marriages. MMSL is making guys do that “achieving the short term goal of pussy” thing on their LTRs and HOLY SHIT it works, because it’s all the same thing lol
“Seems to me that “conversion” should be something that’s one and done, and it doesn’t revert backwards. Not “requires daily maintaining”, and “could revert to previous state at any given moemnet”, but that’s probably just my own perspective.”
“It’s late where I am and I may have misread, but frankly the OP was all full of “Deep Conversion” (said in a Deep, manly Voice) as a True Thing and a Fine Thing and an Intense Thing then at the end, oh, yeah, by the way, hehe, it lasted for a while then fizzledout…. Looked to me like the whole nonpermanence was mentioned purely as an afterthought. ”
This. ’cause Krauser doesn’t really fully understand seduction and that post is the same as the RVF thinking they’re going to find some EE unicorn where they can let down the burden of performance. All Krauser had in his post is PROPER ATTRACTION/SEDUCTION, which is why it WENT AWAY lol And it blew his mind to get it because he doesn’t get it much because his game style has very low emotional impact and he refuses to tweak it at all or listen to anyone who points out blind spots.
If he was running game with more emotional impact (not higher energy, more DEEP EMOTIONAL IMPACT, like hitting her at her core like he’s supposed to (picture aiming for the punching bag VS aiming THROUGH the punching bag)) he would be getting that more often.
Krauser has written/video’ed some GREAT stuff. But he’s still LEARNING.
“Given the tendency of BP men to oneitis, that’s really not helpful. IMO far better to state up front “This is a state of mind that WILL NOT LAST without work and MAY NOT LAST even with work”. Of course, that would not produce nearly the same goodfeelze in the average reader, plus it would reduce Deep Conversion to simply another facet of the diamond that is “attraction”, and then there would not be any special New Term to argue about. Instead we’d just have to limp along with the same old same old talking past each other arguments.”
Fucking this. lol This is more about Krauser than Rollo, I think Rollo’s intentions were 100% for the best. But that doesn’t change that bad information is bad information.
“Lately comments have reminded me of sitting around with bored pistol shooters.”
This is why on PUA boards we all go out and post Field Reports. Because when you have a group of guys who aren’t actively pushing the boundaries out there, getting together to theorize, it becomes exactly what the RVF used to lol at this place for: a bunch of dudes who don’t go out circle-jerking and mentally masturbating theory. If guys were all going out and regularly trying to stick their dick in <25yo 8+/10s in 2016 there wouldn't be all this posturing for "This is my Patented XYZ Game that's only for super secret special guys like me, you all don't understand what I'M doing, I look down my nose at you" nonsense, muddying the water for the sake of everyone getting a winner ribbon so everyone feels special.
And that's fine if that's what people want, a community can be anything, but Rollo's writing carries massive clout now and NOT having correct info (or easily misinterpreted by newbies info) is GOING to send newbies down wrong paths, put bad mindsets in them, give them misinformation, and in the end we're going to have more and more men getting burned and blindsided when they SHOULD'VE been getting proper information that would help them avoid that, even if it meant that nobody is special and Attraction just boils down to a handful of elements that have already been solved and codified.
Rollo you fucking with the wordpress layout or something?
When that text is in this box it’s properly spaced into paragraphs with line breaks etc but after I hit post, BOOM, wall of text.
Ok that worked lol breaking this down into chunks then:
lol don’t sweat it. You’re in a way better spot compared to a lot of guys. My main wingman and I are mid-30s and we’re gaming young chicks lol Girls love older men these days.
(didn’t notice your FR till after I wrote this so you can just skim this next part but it’s more applicable to general frustrated newbies more than you specifically, I make more direct notes to you below):
“I have approached a good 100 women who have given me IOIs without it going further than maybe a kiss”
Write Field Reports so we can see why it’s not going further than a kiss. Literally that’s the solution lol Like, we need to know what sort of stuff you’re doing to be able to go “ok this is where you dropped the ball, next time do XYZ”
“and I am starting to lose confidence, because nothing ever goes anywhere”
Nothing “goes anywhere”, that’s passive. You have to TAKE/LEAD things somewhere, which is where structure (like Mystery Method) comes in. 😉
As Scribblerg says: “You sound like you are just kind of winging it when it comes to pickup and actual gaming of women. For me, buckling down and studying mystery method and running structured sets with a method to my madness was a huge stop forward”
Exactly this. It sounds like you’ve mainly had Manosphere influences which are okay for getting some basic mindsets down but you still don’t have any CONTROL out there in your interactions. It sounds like you’re just hoping something happens. Field Reports help us narrow down “okay here is where you should’ve led her to isolation bla bla” I recommend you check out Mystery Method so you can start adding proper structure into your game to get you from having an interaction to having her in your apartment wanting to bone.
You can still get results doing what you’re doing, but they’ll be inconsistent and frustrating and you’ll miss opportunities that you KNOW you “should’ve” gotten but didn’t know what to do to make it happen. It’s like a feeling of helplessness, a leaf blowing in the wind type shit. You want to MAKE shit happen, and that comes from structure and purposely leading things toward your goal.
“For some reason all my friends who are in relationships, their wives are interested in me, and some have come onto me really hard.”
Because most monoLTRs are boring lol
“Eventually it turned out that one couple were literal swingers and I ended up fucking his wife a few weeks ago.. so none of this makes any fucking sense to me.”
lolol could turn into drama so be careful with that one.
“Next day I whatsapp her telling her I hope she didnt get in shit. Turns out her dad warned her about older guys, and that was that. Next time I saw her she’d gotten back together with her ex bf (who came across as beta as fuck), who she isnt sleeping with.”
Nothing you could’ve really done here, just bad luck/timing on your part. You could’ve banged her before taking her back to her dad but that’s about it. Everything you did up to that point was fine. You could try to use Boyfriend Destroyers on her BF but it can be a long process. If she works there again just focus on flirting/teasing, giving her good emotions, laser eye-contact, etc and offer her a ride home or whatever and try escalating.
(here’s some direct advice after reading your FR, which is why they’re important, I can tell from your FR whereabouts you are with game and what sticking points you’re likely to have etc):
“It’s not like I am an outright failure”
Your game is fine, first off lol You’re getting enough Attraction to get the girls so I wouldn’t even have you go spend time on Mystery Method now that I’ve read your FR, ’cause your problems sound like they’re coming down more to handling logistics than anything and you’re running into flakey txt shit (like girls making a plan for a picnic a week later, by the time that day arrives she’s got 100 other offers on the table…in the MOMENT she really wanted to do a picnic, but if you just number close you’re still usually just “some guy” a week later…it was different 5-10 years ago, but they’re just bombarded with options and attention these days). Was there a reason you couldn’t just stick with the Polish girl and try for the actual pull to sex? Even if there was, you also could’ve had the conversation over the phone via voice (where she can hear your tonality and you have her full attention and can hear immediate feedback/responses to calibrate to etc etc) rather than trying to game via a txt conversation.
That’s the big takeaway in 2016, same as hank is figuring out: don’t try to game over txt. Avoid number closing in favor of the same night lay if you can, and if you can’t then just use txt as a way to get to a voice call where you can run better game. EVERY guy is trying to game via txt these days.
“That second one she was really into me, had the deer in headlights look when I talked to her. This is what I find confusing. My text game may be way crap, and may show up the age gap, but I try keep it short, curt, and cocky, so I dunno.”
Try phone calls instead (shoot a txt so when she responds you know you have her attention and then just call her and if she doesn’t pick up tease her about being shy in txt). Or ideally focus on the Same Night Lay. Flaking is at an all-time high in 2016, so you want to capitalize on the attraction while you have it. If you DO have to get a number, try HARD Time-Bridging (check out Julien’s PIMP product (get it by whatever means wink wink), specifically the section on Closing and how he does his number closes (and the infield with the pornstar chick where he Time Bridges EXACT specific plans with her for the next day, for like 20 minutes lol)) for a meetup within 48 hours. Like if you DO have to separate from her, you want to get back into an interaction with her within 48 hours, while she’s still feeling the attraction she had for you…past that you’re looking at a much higher flake rate. Like if you HAVE to take her number, do a hard Time Bridge (again watch that Julien infield, all his push/pull and disqualifying about like “don’t say yes if you’re one of those ditzy girls that makes a bunch of plans but flakes” etc lol) and push for coffee the next afternoon, like you meet her Friday night, push a Time Bridge for coffee Saturday afternoon (she may have plans for Saturday night already but you can bang her in the daytime just as much as at night lol).
Ignore my recommendation for Mystery Method, your FR shows that you’re already doing that stuff fine. Instead just go get Julien’s PIMP product (by whatever means wink wink) and watch the entire section on Closing (there’s like 4 vids in it), and specifically watch the infield that starts with him on the dance floor telling a girl he has a sword (he’s carrying a balloon sword or something).
Pay attention to when he gets her isolated in the corner, watch the whole thing from that point on and notice how much he goes back to his Time Bridging the coffee date. He’ll talk about other stuff and then go back to it, over and over, and get her to participate in defining and repeating the plans over and over etc. Combine that with meeting up within 48 hours and you should get less flakes…but ideally, like Julien describes in the Closing section (and demonstrates in his infield, like with the girl on the sidewalk in the daytime in the PIMP infield), always try for the actual pull even if it seems crazy to try for it (“but she’s with her friends”, figure out how to disarm them, “but she lives far away”, offer to drive her home, “but her dad is txting”, give her an excuse to tell him for why she’ll be a few min late and try to escalate, etc etc think of it like problem-solving lol)
Spend the 2-3 hours it’ll take to watch the Julien PIMP stuff I recommend and you should be able to tighten your end/logistical game up.
“Would be nice to just have one win to give me some confidence.”
If it helps your game in general sounds just fine. You’re just running into endgame issues. It’s like you have a racecar with just one blown tire instead of a piece of shit car that’s broken and mangled and needs a complete overhaul lol Fix that tire and you’ll be cruising along just fine. 🙂
And if you want to take up some super interesting hobby, go for it, but that super interesting hobby isn’t going to make girls not flake on you or make her whip her panties off when her dad txts her or make her stick around after a kiss etc lol those are external/logistical hurdles that there are external game solutions for.
“so I get the fatty cockblock”
GOTTA befriend the friends in that situation (fat girl hot girl combos). That fatty is your wingman for you to get her friend if you can win her over. Mystery Method Group Theory stuff for this one. Also consider that 3-sets might be easier for you than 2-sets, because in a 3-set the fatty has someone to talk to…in a 2-set, the fatty is stuck not having fun or you have to engage her and juggle more shit.
“Also there are more, and younger, guys with game, so competition is more intense, bitch shields are up and activated.”
Try merging sets:
This is an excessive version of it, you don’t have to go THIS extreme with this many people, but if you take a hot girl/ugly girl combo and merge them with another hot girl/ugly girl combo, now you have two hot girls to choose from (and the 2nd one views you as having Preselection just like the girls in this Julien merging video) and the two uggos can talk to eachother and the other hot girl lol Now you can get into a one on one conversation with your girl. You can even bring guys in to entertain the other hot girl and the fatties for you, just keep your girl focused on you (turn her back to the group etc).
Since you know people at this venue this kind of thing should be easy for you, but note that Julien doesn’t even know the girls he’s introducing to eachother in that clip, even the one he says is his girlfriend isn’t that’s just some girl he’s calling his girlfriend as a playful roleplay.
“One thing I do is over the course of a night I will approach the hottest single girl I see in a place – I don’t have a strategy per se. Even if it’s a few words I do it, just to avoid pussying out.”
This is good, keep doing this lol
“100 approaches does seem a lot to me. Feels like a shitload of rejection.”
Don’t worry about the amount. Focus on better strategy and solving the logistics of getting them out of the bar and into your bed that night. You live walking distance from this place so like, all the elements are in place and lined up for you to be pulling, you just need to get around this hurdle.
“An example? Normally I just make them laugh, saying things they don’t expect. I neg them playfully, usually try get them to talk about themselves a bit rather than putting too much pressure on myself to talk. It depends from girl to girl. I’ll never talk alt right stuff, at most I will drop something politically incorrect if its the right girl. I get a lot of appreciative ‘you’re so rudes’. Quite often if its a promo or shooter girl they will end up sitting talking to me half the night instead of working, so I think I am doing something right. Quite often ends up with them initiating kino – sitting with their legs against mine, brushing up on me, hand on forearm etc.”
This is all just fine. I wouldn’t bother with Mystery Method except for the stuff on Group Theory. But otherwise you’re doing fine, even if you’re just naturally flipping the switches instead of consciously doing it, your problems aren’t in the actual interaction itself or you wouldn’t be getting these kinds of reactions.
“One thing I am aware of is that I may be coming across as a player. Girls in this city have a fear of being consciously played. I might come across as too slick and confident, which I guess could be a red flag.”
Merging would also help with this. Imagine if instead of just approaching the hottest single girl, you merged her into a set of hot girl/ugly girl that you were just chilling and joking around with and making laugh, and then introduced them all to eachother THEN focused on that hottest single girl. Now you’re not some sleazy player, you’re a social guy with Preselection.
Also some disqualifying (disqualifying her or disqualifying yourself) helps avoid the player vibe, ’cause that comes off like you’re trying NOT to get them (Hank Moody in Californication is a great role model of an older man disqualifying himself with self-depreciation and “giving in” to having sex with the girl, VS trying to GET her), like the more she’s chasing you (because you disqualify her or yourself), the less she feels like you’re just a player and she’s prey.
But I would focus on the PIMP stuff I recommend first ’cause even if you can get them more attracted to you, if you can’t get them out of the bar and into your bed that night you’re going to run into the same hurdles.
“Honestly, I don’t know what my SMV is or how they see me anymore.”
Don’t think about it. You’re fine lol
“But at the same time, when it leads nowhere my overall confidence takes a dip, and I lose that sense of having SMV, which kindof compounds the after effects of seeing a 6 year long LTR go to shit and have my ex do the classic cold walk out on me like my SMV was zero. At this point because I havent had a gf for so long I struggle to feel like I am worth anything.”
A buddy of mine is dealing with exactly this (similar age and time-frame on his LTR too, and similar ending to it) and is hitting the field slowly dragging himself out of his depression and self-esteem issues over it. You already know how/why you feel this way (being used to having external validation and then having it taken away and not being able to get it again etc) so there’s not much point psycho-analyzing it. Just grab PIMP and watch those sections and work on your end game and you’ll be fine lol
“Increased competition means the majority of guys go to gym, are well groomed, shredded etc. Lots of good looking single guys around, women pretty much have their pick.”
Perfect. Merge a hot girl/ugly girl combo with another hot girl/ugly girl combo, and then merge in a couple of these well groomed shredded dudes to entertain the fatties (pick some beta guys who will be too nice to be rude and not interact with them, then the fatties love you ’cause you handed them some dudes) and let them fight over the other hot girl, while you focus on isolation with one of the hot girls. 🙂 Just by being the social connector that introduces everyone and being able to spike girls emotions you should be able to come off cooler than the other guys.
“But I was thinking about it yesterday and I realised I KNOW I’m going to have that breakthrough. I know I’m gonna do it – there’s no doubt. It’s not an “if”.”
This. Just go out. If you skip the gym or go to the gym and don’t lift anything, you won’t build muscle. But if you go to the gym and lift, you’ll build muscle over time. It’s just how the process works. Just write your Field Reports so you can narrow down where you need to tighten your shit up and keep going out putting yourself around women and in interactions with them. If you have an off night where you feel like shit, cool, sit and chill at a bar and sip a beer and have some bar food, at least you’re out. Even nights like that you eventually get bored and often end up opening just because sitting there by yourself is boring lol Try not taking your phone with you so you can’t throw yourself into surfing the net on it while you eat that burger.
Remember this is supposed to be FUN lol
“Of course the risk with this approach is that I can be so laid-back I can be at home watching Netflix instead of being out because “that’s what I want””
This is the trap lol That’s why my paragraph above stresses STILL GOING OUT even if your goal is “to just stand in a corner being creepy all night” or “to sit at the bar and eat a burger and kill time till last call” etc
“and I’m not gonna do that (for a start it ISN’T what I want in the long term).”
Right. Going to the movies by yourself is fun, but your sex drive will come raging back if you don’t get laid for a bit or do no-fap for a bit, and then you’ll want company. Pretending that won’t happen is silly. But you don’t have to force it…put yourself in environments where the POTENTIAL is there and then chill.
Also look at chill nights out as warmups for the next night out. Like “ok tonight I’m just going to be out around some chaos, I’ll go stand in this scary environment with all these hot unattainable girls and BE an awkward chode, whatever, because this will be scary but TOMORROW when I go to this LESS crazy venue, I’ll feel more confident because I went out tonight, even if I didn’t do anything”.
Your problem isn’t that you need to do 100 approaches a night or anything. You already have most of the skillset. You need length of time in set over number of sets now.
Also understand that THIS IS ALL PART OF THE PROCESS lol A lot of guys who don’t teach newbies will chime in going “now you finally understand” because they don’t understand that to get TO this point you have to go through the stuff you went through, and that the solution for this point will lead to another plateau and more solutions etc etc The game is about making it up the mountain, plateauing and sometimes even falling down the other side a bit, then finally being able to see that there’s an even higher mountain on that other side that you didn’t even realize was there, and then climbing that, and feeling that rush of excitement and love of the game again, then you plateau on that one, rinse and repeat over and over.
So this is a totally normal stage you’re going through. And the solution for it is what you think it is: go into social environments but stop “trying”, just be chill/social without any real goals or rules in mind for a while.
The thing that guys who don’t teach newbies don’t get is that if I tell you “just go out and don’t TRY” BEFORE you get to this plateau, you will 1) end up not learning the stuff you needed to learn because you’d be avoiding interactions that you needed to get you here, and 2) not get to this plateau until way further down the road and be further away from getting PAST the plateau onto the next mountain. So giving you that advice 6 months or a year ago would hinder you, whereas now when you can feel the frustration of the plateau, NOW it’s time to switch those gears up.
But now you’re gonna get swarmed with the “FINALLY you understand our super deep message that PUAs totally don’t understand, just be DPA bro just don’t think just get a bunch of hobbies and then go out and let the mystical energy flow through you and PUSSY WILL FALL FROM THE SKY BRO” guys lol And you’re free to do any of that. But there are no hot girls in the forest where you’re cutting down trees like an OMG-Approved manly man lol You know where the girls are and you know that you’ll have to take action to get them. There’s a reason every single one of the “pussy will fall from the sky if you’re on your purpose bro” guys’ Field Reports involve them being around hot girls and actually taking action lol
And they don’t get that sure you’ll listen to their alpha wave brain thought loop mp3s and go stand and feel your energy in a forest for a while, but WHEN that doesn’t get you laid, you’ll come back to pro-actively approaching, but you’ll have passed some internal hurdles that make it more potent. And then you’ll become an approach machine and plateau and go back to the forest except you’ll have better unconscious externals and subcomms etc from your approaching, and back and forth back and forth.
This is what I was trying to explain to Rollo. It’s not one or the other. You can get laid with just the externals, but the externals help build the internals, and then the internals help build the externals, rinse and repeat over and over. This is the process. But you START with externals because it’s a lot easier to get you to remember not to lean in when you talk than it is to get your brain to believe women will respond positively to you when I put a girl in front of you because it wants PROOF not PROMISES and the smile you get when you remember not to lean in or you say that DHV etc will help build that internal “ohh, maybe I CAN get girls to enjoy interacting with me hmmm…” and the ping-pong game of internals and externals heading toward mastery begins.
And like Walawala says “There comes a point in every PUA’s development where the push to get another notch starts to taper off and you begin to focus on what you want, higher quality and not being such an approach machine.”
The thing is you will go back to being an approach machine down the road too lol but you’ll have better internal mindsets when you do it because you went through this plateau. And then down the road from there you’ll plateau again and go back to not trying but with better externals, etc etc these aren’t signs that you’re fucking up or anything, it’s just the natural ebb and flow of learning game. Don’t judge yourself for these things, just accept them as part of the process. This is a life long thing you’re doing, you can spend a couple weeks just chilling in venues. If you fall too far into being too passive, your dick will remind you that you want to get laid lol
“Keep going until you are ready to just be, to coast and to know you don’t have to bang the 6 just because she said “hi” to you.”
lol I screen SO fucking hard. Guys would be surprised because I think most guys picture PUAs as just going for whatever’s receptive (because that’s what most guys do). I turn down a LOT of opportunities, but I turn them down because in the past I TOOK them and learned what I needed to learn by doing that lol And I have limited free time right now, so I don’t want to spend the little free time I DO have with girls that I don’t enjoy being around.
“In future I will just treat that as a shit test. Any suggestions welcome – I can’t just defer the question with a joke, have tried this and they are persistent, had one girl ask me 20+ times.”
Defer with a joke, then “Agree & Amplify”. “Waaaaay too old for YOU. (silence and stare, maybe look her down & up)” “lololz no really how old are you??” “How old do you think?” “20-whatever?” “wow I love you.” “lolol c’mon how old are you??” “37. (said CONFIDENTLY with sexual laser eye-contact (Liam Macrae on YouTube “Rapid Escalation”), like being an older man is BETTER to you and like YOU might disqualify HER for being too YOUNG) You could practically be my daughter, what are you 18? Did you sneak in here with a fake ID?” etc etc
Skip to these timestamps:
1:40 – Tyler opens and pulls her into isolation ASAP, laser eye-contact and does a playful roleplay
Then skip to 8:00 – Note how he even initiates the age conversation (Tyler is 33 in this clip, he’s 37 like you now) but he does it as if HE’S qualifying HER like “Don’t lie to me to try to impress me, tell me the TRUTH so I can screen you out for being too young because young girls are dumb” Then he can freely tell her his age because he’s already build enough attraction that she doesn’t care about his age and he can even make jokes about her having to call him daddy and shit fully rubbing their age difference in her face. HE thinks the age difference is funny and high-value, he doesn’t view himself as low value for being too old, so the girls generally don’t feel that way either.
Polish girl didn’t care about your age when you were interacting in person. She cared about it after she lost the attraction you were making her feel in-person and you were in a boring text conversation…which is why a voice call might be better, it’s easier to spark attraction again, but both are less optimal than just trying for the pull that night lol
“Generally I find the more rapport I have with them the less they care or seem interested, but in many cases where I get numbers I get asked that the next day. So if I have to bridge it to another day, that’s where the vulnerability comes in. ”
’cause the next day she’s in a different emotional state than you were making her feel when you were in front of her engaging her emotions directly, where she didn’t care. The next day she’s in who knows what state, so you’re more likely to get her trying to qualify you. In 2005 you could meet a girl and she’d still remember you and how she felt with you for a week or two after, that’s why we used to wait a couple days before calling etc. But now her phone at 2am has like 50 txts on it in 10+ different conversations, tons of dudes, same thing with all day Saturday as guys try to get her attention and friends bring her drama etc etc
I can’t quite tell if you’re insecure about your age or if you just are annoyed that it’s seeming to cockblock you, but if you WERE insecure about it (especially if you’re macking girls in their 20s) that would be TOTALLY NORMAL, you just got out of a 6 year LTR and are back in the field where the young dudes beside you are doing tequila shots, maybe you even used to BE like them when you were their age etc. Like don’t sweat it if you DO feel insecure (but you might not, I can’t tell from your writing).
If you ARE a bit like “ah she’s not gonna like me, I’m way too old for her”, the best cure for any insecurity is to shove it in your face until you don’t care about it anymore lol If I was with you I would take you to a nightclub full of young chicks and have YOU start the age conversation with them and try to disqualify them as being “too young” like you’re looking for a mature responsible woman not some ditzy bar chick etc till you can get them qualifying themselves to you (“I’m not THAT young!!” “my ex was 34!!” etc).
Also I get where the “do a million approaches” guys are coming from, but for you and your situation I wouldn’t even worry that much about it. Try merging and tighten up your end game and you should do fine. Your problem is more logistical hurdles than anything attraction-based, you’re already getting lots of attraction. But lots of attraction doesn’t mean she doesn’t still have to drive her drunk girlfriend home because she’s staying at her place and she lives 90 minutes outside the city and she needs you to solve that dilemma for her lol
That’s not to say you CAN’T approach a bunch more, or that you won’t learn anything from it. Feel free to do it. But you can do a lot more with your current style of going out to make it more potent. Like you can mix the ingredients you already have better to make a better tasting cake, you don’t necessarily need to go buy new ingredients. You can merge groups and Time Bridge harder etc without leaving a bar stool lol
@hank holiday @Culum Struan
“well, you don’t always have to be spam approaching, but you do have to always be pushing boundaries. otherwise you will make no progress and stagnate. so you must always have goals and always be pushing for them.”
This is technically right but it’s okay to tell him NOT to set any goals or try to push his boundaries because once he spends a week or two NOT doing anything infield his brain will go “ok but seriously, let’s just talk to this girl beside us, how about that?” and he’ll start setting goals again lol
Also he can set non-approach based goals…ie – a goal could be to keep a conversation going for half an hour, it can be a conversation at all, or disagree with a girl for the first 5 minutes about anything she says etc, VS “approach 50 girls and get a makeout or you’re worthless”, like low energy low stakes simple goals that don’t put massive outcome dependent pressure on him.
“you need a more of a stack. and also other random dhvs you can just drop in there as things come up.”
The problem is the online date is meeting up with him with some A2 that he’s built up over messages (she has to be SOME kind of potential green light or she wouldn’t be coming out to meet up with him) so he’s comfortable in that situation…but with a girl he’s just met, his brain is like “but we can’t just pretend this is an online date, I don’t have 2 weeks of messaging her or anything, I only have 5 minutes of flirting with her”
A stack can help bridge this gap because it’s like “ok no matter what, if she gives me some iois then I’ll just say “it’s loud over here let’s go sit” and take her hand and lead her over there and then I’ll say that thing I say at the start of all my online dates” etc etc like, even that counts as a stack. It’s just a gameplan of shit to execute when your brain isn’t cooperating with you.
It’s funny because this is techncially an easy problem to solve, like if I was out with Culum and we opened a 2-set, I would just lead us all to a table and turn mine so that I’m isolated in conversation with her and he would know “okay YaReally is going to handle the friend for a while so I have a solid half hour to kill with this girl” and he would just find that he’s IN an online date situation, sitting and talking to a girl just like he’s done a million times before and he’d be like “oh, I guess it’s really the same thing, it just FELT different”.
But having to do it himself, after years of online stuff, his brain is probably having trouble going from “open her and get her laughing” to “feel like I’m in an online date situation where I can comfortably execute all my online date stuff”
“Guys, correct me if I’m wrong, but I see the age question as an ioi in itself.”
Technically yes and it’s best to view it that way (because it helps you pass the shit-test), since it means she’s picturing in her head the possiblity of you two being together in some way, otherwise it wouldn’t be relevant.
But on a deep technical nuance level, the age question after you have A2 (female to male interest, aka she’s attracted to you) is seeking rapport whereas the age question before you have A2 is more of a shit-test/disqualifier. In both cases she’s thinking “could we be together” but BEFORE you have A2 she’s looking for reasons NOT to be together, whereas AFTER A2 she’s looking for reasons to BE together. Either way though, pass the shit-test right and you can spark attraction, so mentally framing it as always an ioi is best.
“What about pre-selection, and social proof, rather than sniping?”
You got it. See I can give props when you’re right about something that holds up infield lol
“@YaReally – Credit where credit is due. I used to be so self-conscious about my age but now it’s like whatever…It’s an opening for me now, lol. All due to YaReally and other men’s coaching from right here.”
All I do is report from the field. The only reason I know the age stuff is irrelevant (just like the looks and money stuff) is because PUAs (like Tyler in that clip I just linked), my buddies, myself, etc, have all purposely pushed those limits to test that shit and see where the real boundaries are. Turns out there pretty much aren’t any lol Go out infield enough and push the boundaries enough and you’ll see the same things we see and realize “oh…I get what YaReally was talking about now” lol
My goal is just to help more and more guys see their inherent value and get the results they want out of the game. You could’ve let your age hold you back and no one in the Blue Pill world or even parts of the Manosphere would have judged you for it. They’d say “ya man, gaming is way harder when you’re old, you should go on OKCupid dates with 40yos and offer them an allowance or go to Eastern Europe”.
But you chose to go out and push your comfort zone and push your limits and now you see what we see. 🙂
And more importantly, you see how much potential you still have to live an awesome life even as an old dude who got burned hard and had to start over from scratch at an age where most guys would give up. Regardless of anyone’s feelings on President Trump (lolol wtf world are we living in, I love it), that dude is fucking *70* and has the energy of a 25yo (probably from not drinking or doing drugs), he was doing like 5 rallies a day in multiple states etc at the END of his campaign when he should be the MOST tired, and he isn’t even in good physical shape. Imagine if he did a few pushups or laid off the carbs a bit, even at 70 he probably wouldn’t have much problem getting laid. You’re only in your 50s, you could fit my entire pickup career, every pickup-related adventure I’ve ever been on, between your current age and 70 lol
Just take care of your health so you can enjoy it instead of spending 20 years in a nursing home instead of with girls curled up in a hammock watching the stars with you lol
“@Black Pill – One more tip. The age question also invites the conversation about the young guys she’s got floating around her, her orbiters. Get her to tell you about young beta guys who supplicate to her and how pathetic they seem to her. Talk about how young men these days are etc. She will pile on and maybe even start showing you her phone. Be the guy “who just gets it”.”
This. Bigly. It also helps you learn how lame most of your competition is, which helps in terms of confidence lol
“Thanks guys. In having this conversation I realized it is me taking a shit test to the next level because I am so aware I am hitting 40 next year.”
lol ya when I turned 30 I went through the same thing. In my 20s I legit thought 30+ was over and done with. That was “old” and I better settle down or something before then because no way a guy in his 30s can still get hot young girls. Turns out I was wrong lol Most of the oldschool PUA instructors are in their late 30s now and doing just fine.
When I turned 30 I was hanging with younger dudes who would take me to young venues (’cause of course they wanted to go there, not go to some “old people bar” like I felt like I should maybe start going to), and I felt insecure and self-conscious until I forced myself to just start bringing up our age difference in every conversation with every girl lol That’s where I learned that most of them love older men and/or have been with older men and/or just don’t give a shit and/or feel like *I* might disqualify THEM for being too young for me to want to waste my time on lol THAT was a mindfuck and a half. Now I literally tell girls “I have a DECADE on you. Think about that. That’s TEN YEARS. Do you even know what (something from the 80s, as if everything from back in my generation was the best and SHE’S lame for not knowing about it) is? Tsk tsk I didn’t think so, you can go now.” just to purposely drill in my age because it’s self-amusing to me now lol
Now I would WAY rather be mid-30s than mid-20s. When I go to those same venues (yup still going to them lol and still doing just fine), I look around at the guys in their 20s and they’re all just squirrels bouncing around with no old man oak tree groundedness to them. No authority or dominance etc They fall into girls frames so easily and are just living fully in reaction to everything around them. But girls aren’t looking for more female energy lol
Click here for more on the difference between cooler older men and chodes lol:
Solid response to Black Pill on qualifications and the difference between actual ones and ones that are just going to be funny and spike her emotions. I do a lot of playing up the age difference from the frame of they’re silly young girls who don’t know anything about the world and I’m way more mature and wise than them and everything from my generation was better etc. Hank Moody from Californication is a good role model of an older man interacting with younger women but viewing THEM as immature/silly and viewing himself as awesome, instead of viewing himself as too old or low-value and viewing THEM as the prize…in Hank’s frame it’s like the younger girls are an inconvenience/hassle to him but he’ll LET them fuck him if he HAS to, etc
Also generally a guy has to start with the token disqualifications (making fun of her for being too young or not knowing how to cook etc) because before he’s laid a bunch of girls he doesn’t REALLY know what he does/doesn’t like. He might have some general ideas from previous relationships but he doesn’t really know himself well yet. He needs to be with a bunch of girls to learn “okay THESE are things I want in a girl and THESE are things I don’t care if a girl has and THESE are absolute deal-breakers”, and those things will be specific to him, his goals, the lifestyle he wants/has, etc Like right now based on my lifestyle (working a shitload) I have to screen out certain girls that, 10 years from now (when I have way more free time), I might not screen out. And vice-versa, some girls that pass my screening now and fit into my current lifestyle, I might screen out 10 years from now. But I’ve been with enough girls to know what type of things do and don’t work for me and whatever shape my lifestyle takes on. A guy just getting back out there will need some time to figure that stuff out.
“Does getting laid over a thousand times with one woman count for anything or does it have to be with multiple women?”
“A chick could bone all day long, but that’s no indicator of her mental state wrt to you. Guys seem to miss this completely, talking about ” attraction ” and what not”
No, you just don’t understand that we GET this shit lol This is what Mystery Method teaches guys to get. You keep thinking it’s some high-level thing the same way girls think attraction is some high-level thing. It’s been codified and isn’t as hard to get as people think, and yes that’s talking about the mental state not just boning her.
The longer you assume no one but OMGs can possibly understand this amazing thing you think is unexplainable high-level shit that none of us silly PUAs could ever experience, the longer we’ll keep having these back and forths lol
“But, guys will believe what they want. It’s just that if dudes can believe in pick up, they should be able to understand this.”
This “Deep conversion” is LITERALLY WHAT PICKUP TEACHES lol Deep conversion is just seduction done PROPERLY. This is why it’s retarded to give it a new name, it just muddies the waters.
And there’s no permanant deep connection. Your wife WILL lose attraction if you become a beta chode for too long. At best a high level of attraction (aka “Deep conversion”) will give you a small buffer, and/or if you have a lifelong investment with her she might stay out of obligation, but Attraction is not a choice, her mind will be wandering. She can’t shut off her Hypergamy.
It’s literally just proper seduction done right lol nothing special no matter how much you guys want to believe it is, just like attraction is nothing special, it’s just flipping the right switches, no matter how much girls want to believe it is.
“Yet Deep Conversion is an impossible concept…”
It’s NOT an impossible concept. It’s literally just SEDUCTION. The thing we’ve been teaching forever lol It’s what guys are supposed to be learning how to DO, it’s ENTIRELY POSSIBLE lol
What’s impossible is converting a girl to where she’ll stay attracted when you’re no longer triggering her Hypergamy and she has better options triggering it.
“Good vibes and subcomms..what do I *DO*?”
If you’re going to wing it without routines (and I get what you’re saying about them feeling stilted to you and whatever), then put your main focus on self-amusing:
Ignore the actual words he’s saying about the period stuff in this next clip lol in the actual TenGame infield this is clipped from, after this part he explains “DON’T use my style of humor…don’t say these things, these are just the things that are funny to ME and make ME laugh, you’ll have a DIFFERENT sense of humor and DIFFERENT things that make you laugh, it’s not WHAT I’m saying it’s the fact that it’s making MYSELF have good emotions”:
When you’re self-amusing your brain will connect dots and come up with things to say that it doesn’t do when you’re talking about something that isn’t self-amusing to you. Like if I say a routine someone else gives me, it’s not very fun for me so Julien talks about this a LOT these days. And he stresses in his TenGame infield to NOT say the WORDS he’s saying (’cause he says fucked up stuff), focus on the emotions it’s giving HIM, THAT’S what the girl is responding to, regardless of HOW he makes himself feel good emotions.
Like one of my buddy’s has certain things he thinks are HILARIOUS (like saying cheesy pickup lines or pretending to be lamer than he is), that don’t do ANYTHING for me, but when he even TALKS about them or I even SUGGEST something along those lines, he starts smiling and is already internally laughing to himself. So when he does that stuff with girls, they love him. Whereas I don’t get off on it so if I do it they blow me out, but I have my OWN things that I instinctively smile at (deadpan humor, making shit up and seeing how far I can exaggerate it before they realize I’m fucking with them, making gay jokes with my wingman, etc). Both of us are WAY tamer than Julien’s period jokes, but we feel the same as he does when we poke our personal self-amusing buttons and the girls respond to that.
If you watch Julien’s face, even when he’s playing footage for the students and he cuts back from something he’s said, he INSTINCTIVELY starts to smile and feel good emotions. Like in the Julien & Luke Devil’s Threeway video above, watch Julien’s face as soon as the student says “like…uhhh, incest?” Julien INSTINCTIVELY can’t help but chuckle to himself at that. Because it’s a trigger for him, personally.
I don’t even need routines based around “making shit up and exaggerating it” or “making gay jokes”, those will just COME to me once I start because once I’m tapping into what’s self-amusing to ME, my brain goes “this feels good, so I want to do more of this so here’s more stuff to say that will result in more of this good feeling”, VS if I’m saying shit that isn’t self-amusing to me, where I gotta plan it out or have routines for it because my brain is like “what is THIS? This isn’t FUN…I dunno where to take THIS shit” and it fizzles. But if I’m self-amusing my brain will just connect dots for me and spit out gold because I’m making it feel good by doing those specific things it likes. These will be different for every guy but you’ll be able to figure out what consistently makes you laugh inside your head when you think back to your interactions.
The trick with self-amusement is that even if the girl blows you out, you’re pumping your own state and good feelings, so you don’t CARE if she leaves. Like the period chick he says to the audience “Does it look like I care if she walks away? Would my night be worse if she walked off? No I wouldn’t care because I’m just making myself have fun and laugh, VS if I’m TAKING value where I’m trying to GET something and she walks off and I feel that “aghhh dammit!!” feeling”
You can do 50 approaches and if none of it is self-amusing to you, you don’t feel great unless you get some good reactions. But if you’re self-amusing, you can do 5 approaches and they can all BOMB but you end up being in state because you were saying and doing things that were fun to you and put you in a good state.
Most guys have NO IDEA what makes them laugh lol Because why would they, they’ve never had to think about it and narrow it down.
(highly recommend the infield in TenGame btw, there’s a TON of great content in his breakdowns of his footage, he’s better than he was in PIMP, grab TenGame’s infield however you can wink wink lol)
“okay so got to work on a girl working at check out”
That was solid shit. That could’ve just been a normal boring interaction or you could’ve just stood there while she fixes the situation. By teasing her you turned the whole thing into an actual interaction where she’ll remember you.
“My limited experience in this suggests that with a 2-set you really need a wingman, otherwise you end up getting activley/passivly cockblocked.”
A 3-set is easier solo than a 2-set because in a 3-set 2 of the girls can entertain eachother while you focus on one of them (win them all over of course though lol). In a 2-set you gotta juggle more shit comin at ya or risk the 2nd girl feeling left out and cockblocking so if I’m solo and have to run a 2-set I’ll usually try to bring in some random dude to talk to the friend. Most guys are happy to be introduced to a girl even if they won’t do anything amazing I just need them to bore her while I get time to build a connection with my target.
“You are trying to describe something that is very real to you, for which we have confirmation from the other OMGs and the guys in your social circle that it exists (so we know it’s not a hallucination”
The only part of it that’s a hallucination is the idea that it overcomes Hypergamy. Getting a really deep connection with a girl is just what you’re supposed to be DOING if you follow MM and run a proper seduction lol
Every single one of these guys’ wives would lose attraction if they stopped triggering their Hypergamy and other guys were triggering it. It’s not a choice, it’s hardwired.
But they’re doing stuff that they don’t REALIZE is game lol So they lose their job but are still dominant, alpha, pass her shit-tests, confident, etc and go “SEE I LOST MY JOB BUT SHE STAYED WITH ME TILL I GOT A NEW ONE, I BEAT HYPERGAMY WITH MY DEEP CONVERSION”. No, you just don’t understand game lol
“but is incredibly difficult to describe in such a way that people who have neither seen nor experienced it can understand.”
Until people understand that we HAVE experienced this shit, it’s literally what Mystery Method was ABOUT, we’ll continue to have these fights. It’s like someone who grew up baking bread from scratch going “you guys these days don’t understand what bread is like” and we’re going “ya we do, we can get it at the grocery store for a few bucks, it’s easy” “No no you don’t understand, bread takes hours and you need these special ingredients I use” “Ya we know, they’re on the ingredients label, we can just churn this shit out with machines now” “but that’s DIFFERENT!!! This is HOMEMADE!!!” “okay then we can order it from a bakery that makes homemade bread” “BUT…But you just don’t understand!!!”
The hardest part for these guys to accept is that maybe we DO know how to get what they think is special magical and hard to get, and we can do it way faster and easier than they can comprehend because they didn’t get it that fast. And it’s not a big deal to us because it’s what we were leaning about from day 1, so we don’t even CARE about it or actively try to AVOID it, while they’re still thinking “but, but, you can’t get it THAT fast, there’s no way!! *I* couldn’t do it that fast and I’m a boss!!”
Sorry guys, we are just better educated on the subject. We understand how bread is made and we know the most efficient way to make it and it’s the exact same bread you took a week to gather ingredients and hand-churned the flour (or whatever lol) to make.
Guys who get replaced with automation in factories probably go through a similar frustration/denial of “but, but, that machine can’t screw the screws onto that car the way a HUMAN can!!” Sorry, it can, and it can even screw it BETTER and more consistently, I know that’s hard to accept but that’s just how it is lol
“accounts of the benefits of marriage or DC are going to sound like bigfoot Jesus to them.”
There is simply no benefit that isn’t linked to FI-conditioned beliefs is all. You can believe that that blue shirt makes you more attractive, and you can reap the benefits of confidence and self-assuredness that come with that believe, but that is still a conditioned belief based in nothing…blue shirts are objectively not “more attractive than other shirts”.
Every benefit can be boiled down to either not holding up under analysis, no longer being consistently/reliably applicable in 2016, or being based in FI-conditioning.
The scary part to these guys is accepting that maybe we are just THAT fucking smart that we GET their position and we DO understand what they’re talking about and we CAN and HAVE experienced the shit they’ve experienced, but that we’ve done it in a more efficient way, broken it down and codified it and pulled the body apart to clinically name all the parts that make it function, and don’t view it as this special magical shit that their social conditioning has convinced them it is. They keep wanting us to see the beauty and magesty of churning butter when we get the exact same results easier and faster with an automated butter factory(? I don’t know how bread or butter is made lol).
“However, you also have direct experience that there is something more to DC that is being missed by Yareally’s explanation.”
This is imaginary fluff. Unless it counters Hypergamy, it’s just “lots of attraction”.
It’s literally exactly the same as a guy with one-itis explaining how you just don’t understand, HIS girl is SPECIAL, she’s DIFFERENT, what THEY have is MAGICAL, bla bla bla it’s all the same shit lol That guy just really wants to believe that what he has is special. But it’ll follow the exact same rules it always does for everyone. It’s just pizza.
“You can’t quite explain what it is or how it works in a way that isn’t fairly easy to swat down using current RP/PUA theory.”
That’s because it ISN’T anything special just like that guy’s one-itis isn’t anything special. They just FEEEEEEEEEL like it’s special because they’re operating on FEEEEEEELZ when they discuss it. That’s why they hate when I clinically pull it apart. Because that’s BAD FEEELZZZZ The exact same way girls feel bad feels when they discover Tyler is teaching nerds how to trigger Attraction…that was supposed to be SPECIAL, it was supposed to “just happen”.
This is just emotional bullshit from red pill OMGs lol
“This tells me the RP/PUA model is inadequate to explain ALL of the experiences you have observed.”
No, their experiences are clouded by emotions the exact same way the one-itis guy thinks we can’t explain his super special connection with his girl.
“I believe you may be describing something for which the word love might have been perfectly adequate 50 years ago”
Hypergamy worked 50 years ago exactly how it does now. It’s just that society was different so it was easier to keep Hypergamy triggered (less selection of men, a culture that promoted masculine red pill behavior, lack of instant communication = more dread, etc)
This shit is just guys letting their FI-conditioned emotions complicate shit that’s very simple and consistent. Muddying the waters and making it confusing for newbies.
“That means that you guys can’t give up when the discussions get pissy, when you get misunderstood, or even when you get mocked.”
Does NO ONE see them initiating the snark half the time?? When they get butthurt about someone saying something objective and clinical and they take it as a personal offense and get all condescendingly snarky? And then play the victim? lol This is silly.
“They’re not going to accept anything that isn’t very well supported, and why should they?”
We can explain everything they feel just like we can explain everything the one-itis guy feels. But the one-itis guy will stubbornly push back and argue that we can’t possibly know what he feels, just like the OMGs will do the same. It’s all the same shit: guys making emotional arguments that don’t hold up to scrutiny because they’re based in feels not reality.
“When the YSGs “don’t get it,” consider that a failure of jargon instead of an insult, and use different words.”
Or consider that we DO “get it”, and we are just THAT MUCH ahead of them lol It’s like they’re saying “but guys guys, look at this really cool bottle rocket” while we’re constructing a rocket for NASA. Ya kid, your bottle rocket is super, we already get it. And the kid is sitting there going WHY AREN’T THEY MORE EXCITED ABOUT MY BOTTLE ROCKET THESE GUYS DON’T UNDERSTAND ROCKET SCIENCE AT ALL!! MY BOTTLE ROCKET IS SPECIAL!!!
“eventually you will find a way to describe the taste of licorice.”
We already know what licorice tastes like. I can take any girl I pull in the next month and get licorice if I want it. We’ve codified how to do it. And yes, it’s the same licorice you guys are chewing on, except you were fumbling around in the dark to get the package open while we have a system that lets us open it more efficiently, as much as that crushes your souls to accept lol
“If it is just, as Yareally keeps bleating on about, the constant treadmill like repetition of hypergamous triggering in real time… you would have no Alpha Widows, spanning decades long absences…”
As I’ve explained repeatedly, the reason Alpha widows happen is because in that absence the guy can’t fail her shit-tests. Her memory of him stays as that guy who was triggering her Hypergamy. If he stuck around and stopped triggering it, she would lose attraction.
If that WEREN’T the case then all you would have to do is trigger it once and then you could sit back and be a big beta chode piece of shit that doesn’t trigger Hypergamy and surround her with guys who DO trigger her Hypergamy because hey, you’ve triggered DEEP CONVERSION(TM)(TM) and beat the system! lol
“you would have to retrigger attraction by all the switch flipping scale sliding actions…”
No, you lose Hypergamy by failing shit-tests, not by not participating in them or her being able to give them to you. That’s why girls I only see when I pass through their town just assume I’m slaying pussy left and right 24/7 even if we haven’t talked in a year, because that’s the last impression they had of me and I’m still triggering a shitload of Hypergamy for them. Unless I fail a bunch of shit-tests and act like a chode, and then I’ll stop triggering their Hypergamy and they’ll lose attraction.
Attraction is not a choice. Hypergamy doesn’t care about “DEEP CONVERSION””(TM)(TM) just like it doesn’t care about love or loyalty or honor or that you’re a good father or marriage or monogamy or any of that shit.
“and anyone who has ever had and old GF who still longs for them knows, you can just start right where things left off…”
Yes because she remembers you the way you were when she last saw you. FFS dude, how do you miss the point of literally everything I explain when I counter these points ahead of time to try to prevent this shit? I LITERALLY address this alpha widow stuff in my first posts in this thread on it lol
“there is what you call “burn in” and what Krauser terms Deep Conversion and what others say are Alpha Widows…”
You’re just muddying the waters like Krauser. This is fucking ridiculous.
“she remembers you the way you were”
“This concept does not go away when you are with her in the present either… because there is still a pay off to her in remembering you that way…”
Unless you fail a bunch of shit-tests. Otherwise you would be incapable of not being attractive to a girl once she’s “deep converted” even if you started begging for sex and crying about your feelings all the time and quit your job and just laid on the couch and complained 24/7 and asked her permission for everything supplicating 24/7 etc etc
“The period of Alpha Decay (TM) is far longer than you consider… for a host of differing reasons… [i.e. her having the progeny of That Guy(TM) is one of them… see OP pic]”
Staying with you does not equal being attracted to you. As I’ve said MULTIPILE TIMES she might stay out of obligation or cut you a slight bit of slack, and if there’s no one better around that triggers her Hypergamy more she might make do, but you won’t beat Hypergamy and she’s GOING to feel a loss of attraction and if someone else comes around that triggers her Hypergamy more, you’re done.
This shit is hardwired and consistent. “DEEP ATTRACTION ALPHA MAGIC (TM)(TM)” doesn’t circumvent Hypergamy. It’s just what you’re SUPPOSED to be doing and what Mystery Method teaches guys to do. All Krauser did was accidentally run proper game lol
“I’m sorry if this is a bit sobering, but it needs to be said.”
Nightclubs will be full of beta uprisings one day, shootin up the alphas who get laid. VR porn better hurt up and sedate ’em or we’re fucked.
“In this week’s post the proposition came up that any provisioning was inherently a Beta trait. I’ve read this before and not just on my blog, but also coming from both the MGTOW and the PUA sides of the fence. The idea is that any form of monogamy and/or provisioning for an LTR girlfriend (and I would count a live-in arrangement as provisioning), a wife and any kids (prospectively) is itself evidence of a Beta mindset.”
No, see you did it again lol You started out great, with the ACTION being separate from the MAN, and then at the end you combined them. That’s why there’s this disconnect, ’cause you guys keep doing this.
We are saying “this behavior is a Beta net negative behavior” and you are interpreting that as “this behavior MEANS THAT GUY IS A BETA CHODE IDIOT LOSER WHO HAS A BETA MINDSET”.
You have to separate the ACTION from the MINDSET. You can have an Alpha mindset but DO some Beta behaviors without that indicating that you have a Beta mindset, just like you can be AFC Tyler, with a Beta mindset, but mimic Alpha behaviors, and still be a Beta.
But all the girl cares about is what she sees in the end, regardless of how that action came to be.
You guys are taking this shit way too personal lol “wut monogamy is a Beta behavior so you’re saying I’m a beta fuck you man!!” That’s not what we’re saying. You can be super Alpha but be doing a Beta thing and you just have enough Alpha credit for it to not really matter. But if you keep doing more and more Beta shit eventually she’ll view you as Beta and you’ll lose attraction.
If you have good internals/mindsets, you can neutralize the effect of a lot of those Beta behaviors but they don’t become Alpha behaviors. A guy who DOESN’T have A2 (Female to Male interest aka ATTRACTION) will NOT gain attraction from those Beta behaviors. Once he’s passed into A2, they just won’t hamper him if he has good internals.
“I think the problem with this presumption”
This is NOT our presumption at all lol This is a misinterpretation of our side of it.
“We’ve had an interesting discussion about this in the last comment thread, and In the interests of full disclosure here, I’m still on the fence about this concept. I’ll have a forthcoming post about mindset soon.”
I heart you but I don’t think you should write an article on the subject until you fully get both sides of the discussion and have fully hashed it out. Writing an article in the middle of the discussion like this is like, you’re arguing something that we aren’t saying. That’s dangerous to add that to your article collection because there are guys who won’t read the comments at all.
“Provisioning is certainly a value added aspect to a guy who a woman sees as an Alpha sex prospect already, and not a necessary a prerequisite for fucking him, but it’s not a disadvantage (being Beta) if that Alpha guy also has means, affluence, status, looks, etc.”
Sure it is. Lover/Provider. We field test this all the time. The more Provider traits you exhibit, the less she sees you as a Lover. Brad Pitt smothering a girl with unearned gifts will eventually blow himself out. You can see this in any nightclub on any given night…guys who have attraction from a girl and then exhibit do a bunch of beta shit and get themselves blown out. This happens ALL THE TIME lol
“But is a nominally Alpha guy, who has excess means and resources being “Beta” by providing for his wife & family?”
Again you’re conflating actions with the mindset/value-judgement of the man himself. They are two separate things.
Fuck I gotta head to dinner, someone else take over lol
(also personally I would prefer to drop the beta/alpha labelling of actions (because people get butthurt at those words and interpret them as value judgements) and simply label them as +/- sexual attraction instead…ie – this action causes an increase in attraction (which can be enhanced with good mindsets) whether you’re past A2 or not, and this other action causes a decrease in attraction (which can be minimized with good mindsets) whether you’re past A2 or not)
“Provisioning is beta behavior period, always….buuuttt, it’s okay and not a bad thing. Still beta behavior always.”
You’re doing exactly what we’re saying you’re doing and you refuse to listen. You keep combining a beta ACTION with a judgement of a man as himself to his core being a beta PERSON. That’s why you keep losing your shit. It’s like we’re saying “this car is old” and you’re saying “OH SO IT’S A BAD CAR THAT CAN’T DRIVE ANYWHERE HUH?!?!?” No, that’s not what we’re saying, we’re just saying it’s objectively an older car than a car made more recently, and it may come with more problems because of that, but it may still be a fine car overall.
Again this is probably because as a Natural you don’t separate your game from who you are, so a critique of something you do is, to YOU, a critique of who you ARE, whereas we learned game consciously as a skillset so we can separate actions from the person themselves. It’s fascinating that you guys seem to have so much trouble with this no matter how many times we explain it step by step. I LITERALLY said you guys are doing EXACTLY what you just did, and then your reply was to do it again lol
“Ya and Habd have been like….level 9,000 patient about saying the same thing step by step.”
lol lots of experience. I know these guys aren’t “dumb”, they just don’t fully get what we’re trying to explain. As soon as they understand they’ll go “oh, ya, I agree” just like half the shit people disagree with me about lol
“That said, I get that process and mindset need to be separate.”
They don’t NEED to be separate. It’s just that a judgement of a process based action does not mean that’s also a judgement of the person’s mindset, and vice-versa, especially to women feeling attraction.
“Hell, I’ll even concede that from a purely objective perspective provisioning and LTRs are inherently Beta behaviors.”
That’s all Scray is saying. And what we’re trying to get through to you guys is that those ACTIONS are not judgements of the MAN HIMSELF. But you’re about to conflate the two again like so:
“But in that respect MGTOWs would be more “Alpha” than any PUA who entertains any form of LTR. Granted, they’re Beta in many other respects, but provisioning ain’t one of ’em.”
You just lumped all their mindsets and actions together. Can you not see that you’re doing this? What if I break it down step by step:
1) MGTOWs execute actions that alphas execute
2) those actions MIGHT be from them having alpha mindsets, OR they MIGHT be from having a beta mindset but simply knowing TO execute those actions
3) then YOU say “so those MGTOWS are ALPHA”. No, their ACTIONS they’re EXECUTING may be alpha, but that doesn’t mean their mindsets are or aren’t.
4) then you say “but they’re BETA in other respects”. No, some of their ACTIONS are beta actions, but that doesn’t mean their mindsets are or aren’t.
Does that make sense? You keep agreeing “okay we have to separate how well you turned the wheel just now, from whether you’re overall a good driver…(this is good)…you just turned the wheel well so YOU ARE A GOOD DRIVER (noooo, you just combined them)”
It’s fascinating to me that this is hard to grasp. It legitimately might be the difference between consciously/unconsciously learning to execute those actions…ie – you learned to be cool and those actions so when you executed those actions they stemmed from your mindsets, whereas guys like scray and myself and Tyler etc learned to just execute the actions and we saw that the execution triggered the exact same thing you triggered except our mindsets were all fucked up.
The problem you guys are having is you’re viewing “beta” as an insult, and taking “this is a beta action you executed” as “you are a beta person” so of course you’re insulted and fighting Scray’s clinical observation.
“Over the course of an LTR, if this perception isn’t perpetually and actively countered by more Alpha dominant contingent behaviors, that man will never be able to avoid his general association of “being” Beta in his persona.”
Right. There you go. This is why what you guys were saying before (anything an alpha does is alpha) doesn’t hold up. Because eventually that alpha begging for sex etc (executing objectively beta behaviors) would affect her view of him OVERALL. There’s a balance…but we can’t teach guys there’s a balance when people refuse to believe that any action an alpha executes could be beta/negative and need to be balanced out, when everyone gets their ego in a hissy fit “WUT SO UR SAYING ROLLO IS A BETA CUZ HE’S MARRIED (aka executed a technically beta action that he has to balance out by having a job working with bottle models)?!?!”
You agree with us, you just don’t understand what we’re saying because Scray jumped way ahead and answered this stuff before you guys realized you were going to ask it, because as learned PUAs we’ve had these conversations before and we know where this will go lol I’m just baby-stepping you through it because I know as a rational person when you understand what we’re saying you’ll realize you agree.
“Finally, if mindset is less important than process”
FOR GETTING LAID, yes. For maintaining a long-term LTR, for having overall long-term good mental health, for all sorts of shit, mindset is very important. But for sparking attraction and gina tingles and getting a girl to put your dick inside her, mindset doesn’t really matter. Tyler didn’t even START working on his internal mindsets (most of us didn’t) until we were all YEARS into pickup, and we were getting laid, because all girls cared about was the actions we were executing because that’s all they see. If we have good mindsets, we execute those actions easier and walk less of a tightrope, but it’s the execution of those actions that matters for the specific goal of triggering attraction and getting laid.
That doesn’t mean mindset is useless or mindset can’t also be attractive etc etc like you’re trying to warp us into having said lol The originall discussion as far as I saw was whether good internal mindsets are necessary for getting laid and the answer is no, they aren’t. THOROUGHLY field-tested by the entire PUA community for YEARS lol
“I think someone ought to inform Owen Cook about it.”
There’s no reason to get snarky.
“From what I’ve been seeing in the videos I’ve been researching”
It would be nice if you just trusted me so I didn’t have to go through all these vids and then read that I’m pushing the spammer edge around here by posting RSD vids lol
“Maybe this is a new development, the result of some new insight he’s had in his middle age years,”
You got it. He’s seen both ends of it and he knows that ultimately in the long-run mindsets are important. But he also points out that just feeling good doesn’t get you laid, and that you can get laid without feeling good. He knows that ultimately it’s better to build guys with good internals from the start, but that’s NOT THE SAME as “do you have to have good internals to get laid?” Objectively you DON’T, he just wants to help men become OVERALL better for the long-term as well as get laid.
If you think Luke isn’t teaching guys technical external game along with the mindset stuff, like he’s just having guys pay to live at the RSD Mansion and they just sit around and meditate all day then go out, I mean, you gotta watch more content lol Part of why people LIKE Luke is that he gets super technial with his external game teaching. Same with Tyler…and Tyler covers so many subjects that he gets on various trends, right now he’s on an inner game trend so if you just skim some of his latest videos then ya, it looks like all he cares about is internal game. BECAUSE HE SPENT 10 YEARS EXPLAINING EXTERNAL GAME IN INSANE DEPTH ALREADY lol
“but from what I’ve seen mindset is almost more important than process to him.”
You’ve seen limited content is all lol Here ya go, I even time stamped em for ya:
Skip to 6:20 (here he explains how guys get caught in the inner game mental masturbation):
Skip to 15:15 and pay attention at 17:15 (here he explains that the field FORCES you to fix your shit, which is what I was saying):
Skip to 7:28 where he talks about Brad’s super drunk confession “duude…don’t tell anyone this shit, but you know how like people always say you have to have a balanced live and you have to have other things that make you attractive, and that shit will help you to get girls…bro…that’s fuckin BULLSHIT. I’ve had no life for the past 3 years, I fuck chicks ALL THE TIME, I just got REALLY GOOD AT THE GAME, don’t tell anyone this shit they won’t listen it’s just going to make us look too extreme” lol:
You’ve come to a conclusion and are trying to gather evidence to support it, but I would post more vids if there wasn’t a 3 link limit to posts lol There was a great one by Alex from RSD about being a drunken complete garbage mess and still getting laid like crazy just following the process, but I think when he split from RSD he deleted all his old RSD vids.
You gotta understand: we aren’t saying internal game is BAD, or discouraging guys from working on it (every encouragement I give around here is based around helping guys build their internal mindsets along with their external game). It’s just in the OBJECTIVE question of “do you need good internals/mindsets to trigger attraction and get laid?” the answer is OBJECTIVELY and THOROUGHLY FIELD-TESTED to be NO.
Now is that the best path for a guy to live his life? No, but OBJECTIVELY for the goal of GETTING LAID, externals are more important than internals.
The disconnect here might also be that you aren’t a consciously tactically learned PUA like we are, and you don’t take guys infield and teach them how to pick girls up, so you don’t see what happens when you get a guy who’s all fucked up inside to execute the right external actions. So trust us when we tell you this shit lol OR start teaching guys infield for a few years and observe it for yourself, either one lol
“YaReally again has it right counting the little +/-. Once you become good at seeing women’s true reactions you can easily test the little effects of little actions. Every bit of provisioning or even caring dries the pussy somewhat.”
This. Like, you can DO this in sets and relationships and observe it yourself. Literally the MMSL is about executing more alpha actions, it’s not just “go meditate and read Eckhart Tolle”. But executing those actions, if you attribute the success properly (to yourself VS your actions), can help build those mindsets. And developing good mindsets, regardless of how you get there, can help make it more natural/easy to execute those alpha actions more consistently. But it’s those actions themselves that flip the switches of attraction. And some actions flip them in a negative/provider/beta way, while some flip them the other way. Understanding this is how you balance the two and become a guy who’s MARRIED, but works with BOTTLE MODELS. Or how you become a guy who’s MARRIED, but has a strong frame and flirts with girls. Or how you become a guy who’s IN AN LTR, but has girls on the side. etc etc
“Okay, so black chick rode with the nurse joy, so that made it a little more difficult…”
This is where learning to befriend the friends quickly comes in…befriend the friends and go with them. They drop you off together at her place or if they’re all staying together you ask to use the bathroom and the friend crashes and leaves you two up together and you bone.
“but ultimately I don’t give a shit what she feels like. I do those things because I want to and because they are funny to me. Half the stuff I do is just to self amuse.”
This will pay off for you huge down the road lol This is literally what Julien has been trying to hammer into guys about self-amusement for like 3 years now. You’ll find the hotter the girl the harder it is to just self-amuse as you pass your entitlement threshold, unless you’re lucky enough to be spergy enough to not care if she’s smokin hot lol
“its just I think you would legit like reading that one if you hadn’t already”
I read them all but I’ve got limited time right now (lots of sarging and work stuff). Some of them there’s not actually much for me to explain anything off, or it’s clear from your own writing that you’ve already learned whatever lessons I would have explained from that FR (that’s the case with this one lol).
“I did a lot more negs on her than on the redhead (also liked her more, I naturally tend to tease girls the more I like them and the hotter they are).”
Just calibrate. Guys get a good reaction from something so they do it non-stop until it stops working and tanks the set. Understand that tesing and negs and qualifying her etc are awesome, but there are points where you’ll want to push things forward into a connection etc. You might not need MUCH for some girls, it depends a lot on their personality type, but like, pay attention to how the girl is reacting and calibrate if you cross lines or take things too far in one direction or the other (get too romantic serious and you might need some teasing to lighten the mood, get too teasing and you might need some deeper rapport with her so she doesn’t view you as just a stimulus generator but as a an actual person).
“or a wingman. Me and a guy like me would have DESTROYED all these venues.”
Right this lol I just assume you can’t get one. But ya, a wingman can help a lot in these cliquish venues.
“One of the slight negatives on me was I was constantly bouncing around…most people liked me…but I still had this slight “vulture” aspect, like I am hunting down people.”
In a stand-up venue you might be able to merge sets, introduce strangers to strangers and 80/20 the conversation for them till they all get comfortable, and be the social connector…especially if you introduce girls to guys, which is giving value to the guys and makes it more likely to be accepted into their clique which makes it easier to access their women etc Definitely not an ideal situation to sarge in though.
“unless you are completely socially retarded, situations gradually escalate and you can recognize that its doing so and stop it long before it ever gets to throwing fists.”
The VAST majority of fights follow the monkey dance build-up and have tons of warning signs that guys just ignore or are oblivious to or participate in because their ego takes over lol A sincere apology and holding your frame that it’s not a big deal diffuses a TON of shit.
“Rest of the town was dead, closed, deserted.”
This is also why a lot of PUAs gravitate to larger cities where there’s stuff to do past last call lol Even if it’s just a food place that’s still open or whatever.
“Pulling here, like with the black girl and the asian, is MAJOR social pressure, is MAJORLY going against her group”
If you can befriend her friends and get group approval (assuming she doesn’t have a boyfriend they know, though even THEN if they aren’t big fans of him…lol) can reduce a lot of the social pressure on her. Befriending the friends can often be as simple as just engaging them and complimenting them and passing a couple shit-tests and then they leave you alone or help you hook up.
“honestly wasn’t even thinking of that in the moment, I just opened”
Right, this is how most average guys “end up” flipping the right switches and getting laid. PUA is just about consciously doing that and knowing why it’s important and what it’ll do, instead of randomly stumbling around in the dark and accidentally flipping those switches. I’m just pointing out like, you “accidentally” did a slick move that you would want to consciously understand is a good move in similar situations in the future.
“Better to stay in with whole group, and do bf destroyer like that with the whole group, while negging the redhead. So it looks like to everyone I don’t like the girl, and am complimenting the bf (better if I run jester on him).”
Yup there’s an element of social pressure. When it’s just the guy and girl or just the guy, he’s free to think whatever he wants. But when he’s in his group, if the group all acts like you’re not a threat, then he’ll probably fall into their group think (or at least not want to go against the group vibe) and treat you that way (or even believe it fully).
Also it’s Juggler not Jester😉
“The disagreement Rollo and Scray are having boils down to whether, at any given moment, your behavior is a precise or accurate indicator of your mindset.”
“Scray is saying you can behave like an alpha without necessarily having the mindset of one. This is just an observation not a prescription of what you should do. He is not saying that you should only focus on behavior. He is just making an observation of reality.”
THIS. (bolding mine)
“What is the point of making that obvious observation? To set up the stage for the assertion that provisioning is a beta trait.”
This. Again we can’t teach men about balance if we tell them “whatever you do when you’re in a good mindset will never lose you any attraction because it’ll just automatically be alpha ’cause my ego is too invested to imagine that anything I do would have a negative effect on sexual attraction which means that no one who has sexual attraction can EVER be blown out since even begging the girl for sex and txting her 500 times a day like a desperate needy chode would be alpha and sexually attractive”.
It’s important to be able to objectively look at “this action will be a net negative on sexual attraction, but it can be balanced out with this action that is a net positive on sexual attraction” Otherwise we’re just mentally masturbating.
This is why I prefer to use net positive/negative on sexual attraction (VS feeling more/less comfort etc) instead of labelling it alpha/beta, because too many guys in the manosphere have “ALPHA = BEST, BETA = WORST, I’M JAMES BOND I DON’T DO ANYTHING BETA EVER OR ELSE I MUST BE A BETA NOOOOO!!!!!” ego investment and we end up in these discussions lol
The whole reason PUA even EXISTS was that the original guys went out infield and noticed patterns that certain behaviors had net positive results and certain behaviors had net negative results, independent of your mindsets behind them. The more you execute provider actions the more you get put in the provider category and are subject to the rules/limitations of being a provider, and vice-versa with lover. And you can observe this in realtime. And you (Rollo, Blaximus, etc) are instinctively balancing these things out, you just don’t think about it consciously…Rollo has his bottle model job because he’s creative and it’s fun and his life just took him in that direction, VS as a technique, but it has the end result of balancing out his being a provider.
“This in no way means you should only strive for conscious competence. Not what we’re talking about. Developing a good mindset is key, simply because you can’t move to unconscious competence from conscious competence without it. Scray’s paradigm does not conflict with this.”
Exactly. That’s why, as Tyler says, the feel-good self help stuff is just mental masturabiton if you aren’t going out and finding out where your weaknesses are and consciously learning these things. You can eventually learn them, but it’s inconsistent (the act of climbing a mountain for his inner game to feel all accomplished and shit won’t make every guy an alpha panty-wetter who handles logistics on an ONS pull properly) and it’s just not the most efficient way to teach men, and if the goal is simply “can they get laid without inner game?” they don’t need that mountain they just need to execute the right actions around the girl.
“You saying that marriage is a net MINUS bro? You saying I can’t attract my wife BRO? Last night I fucked my wife for the 1 billionth and 1 billionth +1 times… How does that fit into your negative view of marriage? What do you know about LTRs? You’re just an immature PUA. If I saw you in the club I’d net minus your head from your body!”
Fucking lol’ed harder at this than I probably should have. This is literally what these conversations are like lol
“I find it interesting how Owen constantly stresses mindset in dozens of his videos and damn near every seminar talk he gives, but for Scray & I guess YaReally mindset is just ancillary to a process”
Again there’s no need for this snark. You are just not fully informed about what Tyler teaches. You haven’t watched “damn near every seminar talk he gives”, you’ve watched a handful of videos about a topic that fits your narrative and are choosing to either consciously dismiss the rest that goes against it, or not put in the time/effort to watch 5 years worth of video content and read everything he’s written since the early 2000s. Which is FINE if you choose not to do that, that’s a lot of work to win an internet argument, but if you choose NOT to do that then you are less than fully informed. That’s fine. Trust the guys who’ve been following RSD for a long time when we tell you what they teach instead of this snarky “well I checked out his last few videos and–” shit.
You haven’t written about solipsism in a while, does solipsism not real now? Stop this shit man.
And Scray and I have said repeatedly that mindset IS important too, for overall long-term benefits. It’s just not necessary for sparking sexual attraction in women.
I mean shit, you’re captain “fireman calendar makes girls wet”. Are those guys displaying amazing internal game in that calendar? No it’s a bunch of colored dots on a piece of paper. So if you subscribe to your fireman thing then those fireman calendars don’t turn girls on ’cause they aren’t seeing the guy’s internals.
(hint: this is a trap lol, if you say “well they can see the guy’s internals through his body language etc in the pictures” then you’re just endorsing my “subcomms are what matter” thing I’ve been trying to explain in the looks debates, and if you say “well they’re just attracted to the physical characteristics, that subcomm stuff is made up nonsense” then you’re discrediting your own “internal game matters” theory, and last but not least if you say “well they aren’t sexually attracted to them” then you’re discrediting your own looks matter theory) 😉
“Good if you have it, but ultimately not required so long as you can fake the behavior well enough and not let your mental state influence that process.”
This. As Scray says: “When it comes to getting laid, yup.”
“That doesn’t seem to be at all what Owen promotes.”
Again you haven’t watched enough Tyler stuff. How do you think we were all getting laid in our first years of running external game with shitty internals?
“they stress mindset because they don’t want someone to end up all fucked internally, WHICH DEFINITELY CAN HAPPEN (and yet another counterexample to mindset = process — dudes who can get laid but are supremely fucked up internally).”
This lol You don’t NEED to shoulder-check when you drive down a race track against one other person who’s in front of you. But if I’m teaching you to drive I’m going to teach you TO shoulder-check because it’s probably a good thing to have long-term when you’re driving around downtown. But you can still win that race, and even navigate downtown without crashing, without shoulder-checking. Don’t mistake my teaching you to shoulder-check as the same as saying “you MUST shoulder-check to win a race”.
“Is the discussion concentrating solely on getting laid, or is it about mindset and motivation and action – long-term? These are practically 2 separate things as far as the original spirit that spurred the discussion in the first place.”
We have REPEATEDLY A ZILLION TIMES stressed that we are talking about GETTING LAID. AND repeatedly said that long-term internals are important. If there’s any confusion about what we’re discussing, it’s on your guys’ end trying to take what we’re saying about “you don’t need good internals to make a girl’s pussy wet” and attributing it to “so you’re saying you don’t need good internals to have a 40 year marriage and that no guy should ever focus on internals ever?!?!?” That’s all on you guys, not us. We’ve been consistent from last thread when people were talking about banning scray who has been saying this consistently from the start (which is why I jumped in to back him up).
“Nature of the beast, always pursue the easy and formulaic. Not that that’s a bad tactic short term , but it’s not a life long ultimate result positive in the long run, as the total benefit and understanding are minimized.”
Like I say, as soon as you guys slow down and actually look at what we’re saying, you’ll realize you agree with us and that we’re repeatedly saying EXACTLY what you just said here.
“So you guys just keep ignoring what’s actually written and going off on your own tangents. If you didn’t, you’d realize that 99% of the “objections” you bring up and “nuances” you want them durned PUAs to consider were already brought up ages ago.”
This lol Scray and I have been 100% consistent. You guys are swinging your arms around on the wheel and blaming us for your car zig-zagging off the side of the road lol
That’s not hate, that’s just like: seriously, slow down and read what we’re saying.
“Does a positive or negative mindset influence how a guy delivers an approach or handles a shit test?”
It influences how he approaches and handles a shit-test…but what *IS* handling a shit-test? An ACTION. AN ACCCCTIIIIOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNN. lol
The guy with a good mindset will find it easier and more natural to EXECUTE THE ACTIONNNNNNNNN that passes the shit-test. But he can EXECUTE THAT ACTIONNNNNNN WITHOUT THE MINDSET. That ACTION is what the girl sees.
If she throws 500 shit-tests at him, the guy who’s JUST executing the actions will probably slip up and fuck up and NOT execute the action that passes them all and fail some of them, whereas the guy with great mindsets might more naturally execute the actions that pass most or all of them.
But all that matters for gina tingles is the ACTION itself, not the MINDSET.
“I have no doubt that there are guys who have the capacity to entirely disconnect their emotional state from their ability to perform”
Literally the vast majority of the PUA community between 2000 and like 2008 lol
“great performs can cry on demand irrespective of their internal state, but on some level of self-awareness they know this is an act and set apart from their genuine internal state.”
So are you in the “fake it till you make it doesn’t work?” camp where PUA is just an act?
“I can link you to videos of Owen leading these pep rally style chants to pysch up the guys at his seminars before they go out clubbing. If mental state is ancillary to Game all of that is just salesmanship.”
You think too black and white. Do you think those guys don’t know what a neg is? Do you think those guys don’t know what an approach is? Do you think those guys don’t know techniques for solidifying a number close?
You are being ridiculous. You are looking at a handful of videos, actively NOT doing proper research, and making declarations. If I read a couple articles of yours NOT about solipsism and then went “Rollo doesn’t talk about solipsism”, I would just be an idiot lol
Julien’s ENTIRE PIMP PRODUCT is external game. I can link you HUNDREDS of hours of Tyler, Luke, Julien, Todd, Max, etc talking external game.
You are just really half-assing this whole discussion here man, c’mon.
“let me refer you to stuff I just said and have said several times already:”
I am lol’ing every time you just keep quoting yourself. They’ll get there eventually, and then Sentient will come along to tell us he taught us to say it and SJF will tell us it was his pushback that made us say it more clearly.
“I seriously have no clue what is getting lost in translation.”
Fuck if I know lol I can’t think of more clear ways to say what we’re saying. It’s like driving on cruise control while the other guy is accidentally speeding up and slowing down and then asks you “bro why do you drive so erratically??” afterward. I don’t know how we can drive any more consistent, just gotta wait for them to stop fucking with their gas pedals.
“For me it was very hard because it stilted me, and I’d bet that I came off a bit unsteady and unsure as I was being conscious of my body positioning, eye contact, voice tonality and reactions to kino. Lol. Shit was hard.”
You are a guy that I wouldn’t teach deep techniques to, just surface level mindsets (the same shit you would teach another guy) because knowing too much will fuck your game up. But that’s calibration to the guy I’m helping. Whereas most guys coming into game need to learn to be aware of their eye-contact and voice tonality etc before they can turn it into unconscious competence.
“Is this guy’s problem his inability to approach and lacking an ability to display more Alpha traits than Beta traits? Or is it his Blue Pill conditioned mindset and a Beta mental point of origin?”
By your own “fireman calendar” logic, shouldn’t that guy be getting laid like a rockstar? Why doesn’t he?
And yes, he displays more beta traits than alpha. That’s why you guys all shit on Brad Pitt as a huge beta, but his character in Fight Club was alpha as fuck and attractive to women. Because regardless of his “beta mindsets”, he was able to EXECUTE ALPHA ACTIONS onscreen.
If an alpha guy moves, acts, talks, and says the exact same things the guy in this video does, he will get the exact same reaction this guy gets: labelled a beta chode. How is this not getting through to you?
Fixing his internals MIGHT help him execture more alpha actions, but it’s those alpha actions he’s executing that trigger attraction, she can’t see inside his mind.
lol at The Rock pic, that’s my exact expression.
“that’s why it must be demonstrated. you demonstrate through what…. oh yeah….actions”
There’s a reason Mystery called DHVs “DEMONSTRATIONS of high-value”, not “HAVING high-value” or “INTERNALLY THINKING you have high-value”. It’s not that that’s BAD, and good mindsets will often help you be more likely to consistently DHV, it’s just that it’s not NECESSARY for sparking attraction and getting laid. All that’s NECESSARY is the DEMONSTRATION aka the ACTION. That’s how we were all getting laid lol
“More and more, I’m seeing personal evidence that attitude and behaviors, ie game, trump looks by a large degree. So thanks Scray and YaReally – you two were the biggest catalysts in getting me back on the pick up path.”
Props dude, I remember your username. Keep at it!
“Now, this whole conversation could have been a simple, friendly discussion over nuances:”
Clearly you don’t realize where you are. This is the Everyone But Sentient Is Wrong show.
“noticing tho with cold texts is to text her something that makes her have to text you back. Like “wait, what.” she can’t ignore it. She has to know. Then you go into more game related topics…like with these girls I went immediately into asking them about their halloween and what they dressed up as.”
lol there ya go. Julien does this too, he talks about it in one of his vids (WHERE HE’S TALKING ABOUT EXTERNAL GAME ROLLO lol)…girls will often ignore your txts/calls if they don’t know the number, so he’ll call and if they don’t pick up he txts “such a slut” and the girl will go “what???” and THEN when he calls she picks up to find out who the fuck he is and what that’s about, and then he just goes “oh I was just kidding so anyway–” and goes into game stuff lol
Don’t use that line, but like, look at the strategy behind it…it’s what you’re discovering: send them something they can’t ignore (VS a “hey” or “hey how’s it going” etc) and transition into actual game. Then extrapolate that into your in-person game: open with something they can’t ignore, then smooth it over, and now you’re running YaReally style game lol
As I’ve said before: Trump was going to win from day one lol Regardless of whether you agree with his policies or think he’ll be good as President (he’ll be fine lol) or whatever, this was literally one of the greatest examples of red pill theory executed on a mass scale that we’ll ever witness in our lifetimes. Anyone who doubted Trump at any point, even in his worst scandals, doesn’t fully get how deep the red pill really runs. The red pill isn’t just a weekend theory thing like “oh at the bar it applies but in these situations it doesn’t”, it’s literally engrained into our mass consciousness, always running under the surface affecting what we do and how we think and act.
Everything from Hillary’s solipsistic corruption, to Trump’s AMOG skills, to what Trump’s actual weaknesses are and how Hillary was successfully poking that weakness in the first debate and then didn’t undersatnd she had found his achille’s heel and switched tactics in the rest of the debates and fucked herself over, to Conways’ AMAZING reframing and conversation leading skills (“pivoting” and “damage control” as they call it lol) to the mass momentum of internet meming, to why Trump did better on social media than Hillary, to why minorities would vote for Trump, to why 50% of college chicks voted for Trump (and why they tend to be hotter and/or more feminine), to why Trump was able to plow through every single controversy, to his amazing frame control, to why people let Trump get away with so much, to why his speeches were resonating to people’s hindbrains (maslow’s etc), to why Hillary voters weren’t enthused, to why Trump was filling stadiums, to why the MSM was colluding with Hillary, to what tactics they used to attack him and his supporters with, to why all their attacks on Trump failed to rock the trump train, to how he was using the MSM’s own weaknesses against them to build his support base (fucking brilliant shit), to why the attacks on his supporters caused what they did, to why people gravitated to r/the_donald/ from r/politics/ and how 4chan and pol’s shitposting influenced everything, and why CTR fucked everything up instead of helping, to how/why the polls were rigged and everyone was blindsided, to why Bernie caved, to why the MSM will now turn on Hillary and distance themselves from her and slowly warm up to Trump, to Assange/Veritas’ epic basedness and their release strategies (he’d better pardon Assange and Snowden…at LEAST Assange), to what excuses they’ll make for why she didn’t win, to why the Russia fear-mongering didn’t work, to why the shaming tactics didn’t work and actually backfired, to why Putin will shake hands with Trump instead of worry about nukes, to why Trump will actually pull off most of what he’s talked about and why it’ll actually improve things, to why Trump will probably go 8 years instead of 4, to why there won’t be any real pushback, to the phases all the blue pill’ers are going through as they process everything, etc etc
It was all 100% red pill concepts playing out and incredible to observe. The Dilbert guy got the closest to nailing the play by play of it, but even he pussied out for a bit at one point thinking Trump was going to be done in (I think it was pussygate, can’t remember off-hand) because he doesn’t fully have the red pill swallowed and didn’t see the mass momentum and doesn’t understand the “alphas have certain rules and betas have other rules” and frame control dynamics. I wish I had been commentating on the whole thing from day one so I could brag but I waste enough time on pickup discussions and didn’t want to add political discussions (that I don’t even enjoy) to that lol I won some bets with some buddies I was calling play by plays with though, who now think I’m a fucking wizard lol so I’m happy. I just wish I had bet more.
But seriously, this whole thing was a beautiful display of the red pill on a mass scale. I could literally write a book breaking down all the little social dynamics that went on in this election run…fucking amazing to be alive to witness this shit lol People will ask us when we’re 90 what it was like watching an orange pumpkin reality show become the fucking President lol History books will literally have pictures of 4chan Pepe memes. I love it and am relishing all the salty SJW/Feminist tears lol The biggest salt shower I’ve ever seen. I don’t even care if we all get nuked, it was worth it just for this:
More for you.
Tyler on fueling your brain with “proof not promises” to build good internals (“you can PROMISE your brain nothing bad is going to happen if you express yourself, but your brain wants PROOF not PROMISES…so when you yell out loud (aka take action), and nothing bad happens, your brain gets evidence that nothing bad will happen”:
Tyler on why “just be cool” (trying to just change a guy’s mindset) doesn’t work, “your brain needs PROOF not PROMISES” (to forge mindsets):
Tyler on small-chunking the game…the reason he has steps to what he’s doing is because he knows your brain needs reference experiences. And reference experiences come from taking action and taking in the results OF that action (and reframing it (REFRAMING IS ALSO AN ACTION/TECHNIQUE) if you need to, to help it build your mindsets) At 8:20 “let’s talk about OUTER GAME, and how that kind of BLEEDS INTO inner game and how they work together”:
Julien on going out a shitload “start ACTING like you’re up here, so that your emotions FOLLOW”. At 8:21 he makes fun of the guys who think “when you’re in (a good mental) state, girls will just come to you and flock to you…they’re trying to avoid the path of pickup. “Oh good mindsets are a part of it, so I’m just gonna focus on this. Oh going to the gym is a part of it, so I’m just gonna focus on this” and you’re just avoiding going out and approaching.”:
Here’s Luke talking about building confidence. “Perpetual persistance begins with high volume interactions” and racking up mass approaches (taking action to forge good internal mindsets by gathering reference experiences quickly and learning to frame what’s happening):
Julien on taking action to gather reference experiences that reinforce the internal beliefs you want to have. “Any girl there is an opportunity to get the reference experience I need to reinforce my beliefs and sharpen the blade”:
I can post a ton more of these if you want lol
Whenever you see them doing exercises with students where the students have to shout, or talk to eachother, or practice stuff (Julien has them talk to a wall etc), or approach easy sets to build momentum, or reframe things that happen in set, those things are yes, putting them in a good mental state, but WHY do they end up in a good mental state from it? Because they’re EXECUTING ACTIONS that help their brain gather REFERENCE EXPERIENCES that help forge their mindsets that they can be expressive and outgoing and loud and approach girls and nothing bad happens (and with reframing or focusing on small successes they can teach their brain that GOOD things happen when they express themselves), which builds internal confidence.
Hope these help, you got a lot of watchin to do this weekend lol
lol no idea what’s happening in this thread, I’m too busy to read it all but banning scray wtf?
I haven’t read what he said but I agree with everything in this last post by him:
That’s all dead-on.
“if process is all that matters, inner Game become irrelevant. Fake it till you make it is pointless – it doesn’t matter if you “make it” so long as you adhere to process accurately.”
Correct. You don’t have to actually “make it”, you can get laid a bunch by simply following the process/routines. That’s how most PUAs get laid at the start, they’re fucked up internally and just going through the routines and motions mimicking alpha behaviors and minimizing beta behaviors, not because their mindsets have changed but because they’re just robotically doing what they’re supposed to do.
As long as they can pull off enough subcomms in front of the girl to flip the right switches, she’ll be attracted and fuck him.
The problem is LONG TERM that leads to a guy who’s stuck in robot mode and usually he ends up basing his self-worth on his externals/results instead of his internals, which leads to ALL SORTS of issues and self-loathing and emotional rollercoasters and difficulty keeping women around longer than a few bangs etc So we try to get them to work on their internals as they go.
But they don’t NEED good internals to attract girls or get laid.
I’ve said repeatedly when I’m helping guys like scray, hank, culum, scribblerg, etc that I’m not just trying to get them laid, I’m trying to put them on a path that’ll build their externals AND internals, ’cause in the PUA community we’ve seen what happens to guys who don’t fix their internals. It means slower initial results, but a better overall foundation/internals in the long-run.
Having delusional internal mindsets helps because of the effect that has on your subcomms. But we switch the delusional internals on and off. Infield and in general, it’s all delusional internals. But when we debrief/breakdown/Field Report, we turn that off and focus on 100% objective critical analysis so we can find our actual sticking points (external (“I should have kissed her at this moment”) AND internal (“why DIDN’T I feel entitled to kiss her?”)) and improve quickly.
In field the reality is girls just care about what they see demonstrated in front of them in the moment. Whether that comes from me speaking in your ear telling you exactly what to say/do and how to stand and talk etc, whether that comes from you doing that stuff because you read it online and don’t even really know WHY you’re doing it, or whether you do that stuff as a Natural who just has great internal mindsets and happen to fluke your way through handling logistics etc, or whether you build a solid internal mindset and solid external skillset and combine them.
“We categorize them as ‘Alpha’ because their mindset predisposes them to default to behaviors women perceive as Alpha”
From what I glanced it looked like Scray was just saying “this behavior will cause a loss of attraction or make it harder to keep her attracted, so this behavior is beta, while this other behavior increases attraction or makes it easier to keep her attracted, so this behavior is alpha” and guys just took it as a personal attack (as always) like “WUT UR SAYING IM NOT ALPHA?!?! UR SAYING ROLLO IS BETA HUHHHH????” which isn’t at all what he was saying lol That certainly isn’t ban-worthy.
That’s why when I replied about alpha/beta I disclaimered it with basically “I don’t care if it’s considered beta or alpha, the end result is that it is likely to cause an attraction loss or generally makes it harder to keep attraction, whatever you want to call that…it’s not that you can’t overcome it, it’s just a net negative” To not trigger the delicate feels of the super unreactive alphas lol
“Guys don’t just surreptitiously decide they’ll behave Alpha or Beta”
…that’s literally what PUAs do when they start out. I could text a fuckbuddy something super clingy needy desperate right now and that would be a Beta behavior regardless of my mindset, just like I could be feeling super clingy needy desperate and decide not to text her, which would be me deciding to behave Alpha.
Maybe I’m missing some part of the discussion jumping in at the end like this…?
“Correct me if I’m wrong, but I had thought that changing these limiting self-beliefs was of primary importance to the RSD set here.”
It’s primary importance for the sake of the guy’s overall long-term mental health and progress and stability curve (ie – he won’t have to fix his internals down the road), not for getting his dick wet. He can be a complete wreck and still get laid if he follows MM to the letter.
“Maybe I’m wrong, maybe process is more important and faking it is all that really matters”
Basically. I’m surprised that’s something that is controversial though…but as more of a self-taught Natural it might be harder for you to separate externals from internals.
But like, give me some guy who hates himself and put me in his body controlling all his movements/words/actions and I’ll get him laid regardless of how fucked up his internals are, because all girls see are the externals/subcomms and you can fake those.
Also having good internals makes it easier to have good subcomms, so we encourage it for that too…but you CAN fake good subcomms. Every guy who learns to do laser eye-contact and cut the space to build sexual tension does it consciously faking it at first…but over time he’ll learn girls love it and he’ll feel attractive and he’ll just do it naturally where it’s easier because he doesn’t have to think about it.
Tyler is still WEIRD. Like, watch any of his videos, especially when he interacts with other guys, and he’s still got weird spergy mannerisms. But girls he interacts with don’t care because he’s drilling them with emotional impact. If you’re running passive low emotional impact game, then your subcomms matter HUGE. But if you’re spitting game with high emotional impact, you can get away with little glitches and weirdness and the girls will look past it or rationalize it.
“but I think that mindset plays a vital role in modifying behavior, or even coming to the realization that a guy would even need to change his behavior.”
Mindset is great, and a guy should definitely handle it long-term. But it’s technically not necessary.
“fake it til you make it = hey, you don’t have the inner game part down so just focus on RIGHT ACTION first.”
This. When a guy is starting out, like take a scray when he started out, or scribblerg when he was first recovering from his divorce, or culum when he was first trying to get away from his sugarbaby thing, or hank when he was starting out. These guys have shitty internals and weak externals initially (even if in scribblerg’s case they had good ones in a past life).
So we encourage them to learn the externals first, because the externals ALONE will get them attraction and possibly even laid. And that feedback they get from the externals will help fuel their confidence. Because we can’t just say “feel more attractive”, because your brain wants PROOF (reference experiences), not PROMISES. That’s why Naturals and women and most guys aren’t able to actually help these guys. They don’t have the reference experiences to make those mindset shifts.
Now the tricky part is that when they GET attraction/results, their brain will attribute their success to either their TECHNIQUES or to THEMSELVES. But because their internals haven’t changed, their brain will logically attribute their success to their techniques (which is technically true), because that’s the only thing they’re doing differently from before.
The problem is that leads down a path where they attribute their success to their externals and don’t build that internal mindset of worthiness. That leads to the same thing as a guy who uses his looks or money or situational confidence to get success…it works while he has it, but internally he’s very fragile and his internal frame is weak and easy for people and the environment to fuck with, and if he loses those things, he loses his confidence.
So where I come in to hand-hold these guys through the initial process, is that I reinforce to them over and over in their Field Reports “do you see how she was attracted to YOU? You haven’t changed your looks or anything, you don’t suddenly have a 6-pack and you’re not rich, and you purposely told her your job was something dumb and unattractive like I told you to so you wouldn’t have that crutch to rely on, and you told her you like Warcraft (or whatever your passion is) like I said to tell her, and you saw her get attracted when you talked passionately about that subject…she’s not just being nice, she’s attracted to YOU, because NOW you’re properly demonstrating the value that you’ve always had but just didn’t know how to express because of the socially conditioned chains around you that told you to sit down and shut up and try to be James Bond.”
It’s a long slow process, but you can see in each of these guys their internals have gotten better and better, because they’re gathering reference experiences and attributing those successes to them just BEING attractive, inherently, as men who are learning to now demonstrate their high-value whether it’s with a DHV story or a cold read or teasing or escalating sexually.
In the end, they’ll all have solid internals AND externals and will be better off for it.
“But once again, there are living examples of dudes who have SHITTY mindsets, who nevertheless, EXECUTE alpha traits in sufficient proportion to be attractive to women.”
Like I say, this is literally most of the PUA community when they start out lol All we focused on in the original oldschool days WAS the externals. All women see is the end result and again, you can FAKE subcomms.
Tyler’s 25 Point List is literally about faking more alpha subcomms:
He explains the brief jist of WHY an alpha would do these things or WHY a behavior is beta, but like, the point is just FIX THESE THINGS and you’ll get more attraction regardless of what your internals are like lol
If you have good internals you might naturally do a lot of these things (or all of them), but again, when you have a newbie with NO REFERENCE EXPERIENCE OF FEELING ATTRACTIVE TO WOMEN, that guy can’t just build a mindset that he’s attractive out of nowhere.
Even me, I have delusional internal confidence, but it’s based on reference experiences. I believe every girl obviously wants me because I’ve had girls want me and I just choose to believe they’re all like that. But without those first girls wanting me, I would have no reference experience to blow up and exaggerate into delusional confidence because I wouldn’t even know what that mindset of “I’m attractive to women!” would FEEL like.
“Who is going to fuck the woman?”
The guy with great internals will still get laid, but he’ll have to fluke his way through flipping a lot of switches and he might miss some completely because he doesn’t consciously know all the switches, he’s flinging his arm around in the dark toward the light switch panel.
The guy with great externals but shitty internals will flip those switches, but his shitty internals will give him metaphorically shaky hands at that light switch panel and might make him miss a few switches or second-guess himself and flip them BACK lol
But I can teach a guy externals regardless of his life experience. It’s very hard bordering on almost impossible to teach a guy good internals without him gathering reference experience to help with that. And the externals will help him build those little reference experiences (every teeny tiny little success like holding a conversation for more than 30 seconds or lasering for the first time or opening for the first time etc) that add up and give him something to base his internals on.
@having a bad day @Rollo
“except, see above… you being 300lbs only has meaning if you give it meaning… (and social conditioning says ‘the fat guy is a loser’… but your mindset CAN say ‘the fat guy is awesome’…)… mindset informs subcomms”
This is where experience teaching newbies comes into play. The reality is there is NO WAY I can convince a 300lbs fat guy that he should feel like girls will be attracted to him. I can show him a dozen fat guys getting laid and he’ll find reasons (beard, clothes, lifestyle, etc) that those guys can do it but he can’t. I can give him all the pep talks in the world. I can explain the exact red pill science of every nuance of it and he can even nod his head. But he won’t REALLY believe me.
It’s the exact same thing with all the guys who resist what I’m saying until they go out and test it, experience that reference experience for themselves, and then come back and say “oh okay I get what YaReally was saying now”. That fat guy NEEDS reference experiences of feeling like a girl was attracted to him. And giving him external tools can help him spark that and help him build reference of “I CAUSED that attraction holy SHIT”. And if I can hand-hold him and direct him into understanding that it wasn’t the exact words he said, it was what that conveyed and that it was a demonstration of his value, I can channel that into him building the internal mindset that “*I* am attractive to women”.
And over time that fat guy can fully believe and understand that his weight doesn’t matter. Meanwhile the fat guy beside him will NEVER BELIEVE IT. Until he goes out INFIELD and gathers the reference experience himself.
“I was under the impression that ” Fake it till you make it, referred to developing one’s mindset ( more alpha in this case ) as the ” it ” in the equation, no?”
Philosophically, yes. Executionally(?), no. It technically just means “make it” like, reach unconscious competence with that alpha behavior so that you execute it naturally. BUT, from a philosophical point, yes, you’re faking it until you develop the mindsets that help you execute it naturally.
This is really complicated to explain to guys who don’t teach newbies lol There’s a lot of overlap in this stuff that sorts itself out in the field. Like we can mentally masturbate a discussion on it and it’ll take 5000 pages to explain the nuances and overlaps and seeming contradictions, but a newbie going out infield will have it sorted out by the field itself as he goes. Think of it like pouring change into a change sorting machine…we can count the quarters and try to explain how much money is there and why $1 can be changed into 4 quarters but ALSO into 10 dimes and the nuances of all that and it’ll be a super confusing conversation. But for the newbie who’s hitting the field, he’s pouring his coins into the change sorter.
“I mean, I get that In The Beginning, if a guy is learning and gaining experience, he might just need some kind of process to follow, but is this process the final answer?”
There’s never a FINAL answer. This is a life-long path of self-development and growth. But you can get laid just by following Mystery Method to the letter. But if you don’t work on your internals too, you’ll end up fucked up even if you’re getting laid.
“Does this stunt actual masculine growth, or is this not important?”
Depends on who’s defining “masculine” lol You and I probably have different definitions of that, just like every guy might have his own definition. I’m not concerned with shaping him into a certain image (James Bond, a burly alpha male, etc), I’m concerned with helping him shape himself into his best possible self, which, inherently, IS a high-value man…it’s UNDER the surface, it’s just covered in chains because of social conditioning. That’s why I help a guy like scray when he started out, or scribblerg when he was at his depressed low point starting out, or hank when he’s feeling hopeless…because while other guys might write them off as failure cases or impossible to help, I KNOW that somewhere deep down they HAVE value, TONS of value, just by being MEN. They just need help and guidance to learn how to SEE that value, embrace it, and display it (and ideally display it efficiently).
Whether that high-value they have looks like what you’d consider “masculine” or not doesn’t matter to me. And I don’t care if they deviate from that path for a while…ie – maybe the biggest priority for one guy is just getting his dick wet, maybe the biggest priority for another guy is feeling more confident, etc Doesn’t matter, it’ll all lead to the same place in the end if he keeps applying himself and going out and challenging himself and his limiting beliefs and fixing his sticking points.
“So if you’re a well established pua, for over a decade or more, are you still only relying on processes?”
This is too black and white, but again as a Natural it’s probably hard for you to separate process/technique from mindset. Tylers 25 Point list probably seems like overthinking and/or common sense to you, and you wouldn’t think about ANY of those 25 points infield. So it’s probably harder for you to relate to guys who are starting out all fucked up and have to learn that stuff consciously.
10 years in the internal and external feed into eachother and overlap and boost eachother, it’s all zen and shit.
“At some point one has to know what they are doing for real, and have an ability to improvise outside of the process.”
That’s why we teach guys to follow the STRUCTURE of Mystery Method (the overall strategy), rather than just copying his exact words forever. So that scray, hank, me, you, etc we’re all technically flipping the same switches when we seduce women, but we’re all doing it in our own way.
“Or….is the idea of a forever running process acceptable to most guys?”
It’s POSSIBLE, but it’s not OPTIMAL, because it will lead to a lot of problems for them. But they’ll be able to get pussy lol
“However, it must be necessary to some degree if that mindset is upstream from and influences process.”
Nope. lol I mean, I get what you’re saying, like it SHOULDN’T be that way, but it IS. Girls just see the final result, however you GET that final result out doesn’t matter to them. Now if you don’t have good internals you might not be able to keep that final result UP or might fuck it up or might have a hard time getting that final result out there properly, but the girls don’t care. Attraction is not a choice, you flip the switches and she gets attracted, that’s it.
“Take a guy who has endured a traumatic enough experience (PTSD) to the point that it fundamental alters his personality, that guy is going to act differently than how he did before his mindset was changed.”
Ya, but that’s not really relevant to Attraction. He can act however he wants, as long as he flips those switches. That’s literally all it comes down to, is flipping those switches, HOWEVER you do it.
Like if the question is “what’s best for man overall?” then ya, internals are important. But if the question is “Does a man need good mindsets/internals to get pussy?” the answer is no.
“And just as an aside, Tyler’s spergy Beta behaviors (net deficit in Game) are converted to something positive, or at least are compensated for by his mindset that convinces him they aren’t a net deficit to his Game. Does that follow?”
Right, Tyler has enough infield experience feeling attraction from women despite doing beta things now and then, that he can have the delusional mindset that those things make him more awesome, which feeds back into his subcomms etc
Julien can walk up to a girl with his hands folded up at his chest like a retard and hunched over and get attraction because he can delusionally convince himself that those things aren’t beta, but he can only do that because he has the reference experiences of getting attraction when he’s not fully 100% perfect (because infield you’ll never be 100% perfect all the time, you’ll get lots of attraction despite fucking up, just like when guys FINALLY go out in a shitty t-shirt and sneakers they find “oh shit I still get attraction just like YaReally said, maybe I don’t need a custom fitted suit with matching pocket square”).
But he wouldn’t have those mindsets if he didn’t follow the process and go out infield and gather the reference experiences that help him have that mindset.
“Ya, just so we’re tracking here (and I don’t disagree with anything you’ve stated BTW),”
"but mindset must factor in to a guy’s process as well as his improving his life if changing his mindset is results from changing his process (Game in this instance)."
Agreed, if the question is "what's best for a guy improving his life?", but if the question is "on a technical level of how Attraction and female psychology works, does a guy have to have good internals to attract women, get pussy, have harems, even have some girls long-term, etc?" the answer to THAT is no.
"If that’s so, is it fair to assume that a man changing his mindset (or having it alter by some experience) would have a more positive or negative influence on his process."
You can have all the positive mindsets in the world if you want, but if you try to kiss the girl before you have A2 she'll reject you. If you say "hey, wanna go fuck?" in front of her and her friends, she'll (probably) get ASD and reject you. If you can't be less reactive/outcome dependent than another guy in set, she'll switch to him. If you don't know how to befriend her friends (or that you SHOULD befriend them), they'll (probably) cockblock you.
Like, it'll have a positive impact, but only to an extent.
Now in social circle game where you're just around a girl 24/7 PASSIVELY waiting for her to choose you, you could probably just rely on internal mindsets and eventually accidentally flip the switches enough to get her. But that's not what we want guys to do because that's too passive, takes too long, and doesn't let them have choice infield. That's chick behavior, really lol
We want guys to be able to see what they want and go hunt it, and for that they need to understand some externals, to get consistent results.
Like here's an example of how this works: I have a PUA buddy who based his value on his externals and never really handled his internals and he hasn't been out infield in a year and he feels like a complete chode. His brain knows he WAS attractive to women (when he was relying on his externals), but he doesn't FEEL attractive anymore because he hasn't had reference experiences of that in a long time. So right now he feels nervous (and is txting me trying to chicken out of tonight to preserve his ego lol) and is scared to go out and feels like he's gonna get blown out.
I can try to pep talk him for a month about what a boss he is and how pimp he USED to be, but his brain, right now, doesn't believe that. So we're heading out later to force him into sets where he'll have to follow the process and when he DOES, he's going to get positive feedback, and that's going to give him reference experiences that he's attractive, and he's going to start building better mindsets again. Except this time I'm going to help coach him into building better internals where he knows that HE'S attractive, not his TECHNIQUES, so he doesn't run into this problem again.
Like I say this is where the philosophical side bumps up against the actual practical side of coaching men. It would be GREAT if I could just convince him he's attractive, but we know that that won't work. His brain needs reference experience from the field, which is why I harp on hitting the field and encourage a period of hyperfocus on the field for newbies.
"Someone needs to pass this on to Mike Cernovich."
lol Cernovich doesn't know his head from his ass when it comes to pickup, he just talks big about it because it helps sell books and his audience is the RVF LARPers and they want to hear that he's a super pimp because he externally fits the stereotype of a guy that SHOULD be one. I'm still waiting on RSD to collapse into bankruptcy like he predicted with his sooper alpha Gorilla mind.
This also all goes back to why we make guys break out of their comfort zones and handicap themselves infield when they get some of the externals down. Like if I’m helping you, then as soon as you start to love wearing that lucky nicely ironed dress shirt of yours, I’m gonna make you wear a shitty shirt that you think looks horrible. As soon as you get a bunch of good results with your hair combed perfectly, I’m gonna make you go out with it looking fucked up. As soon as you get a bunch of good results on Halloween with the best costume ever, I’m gonna make you go out without a costume. As soon as you think you have amazing verbal game, I’m going to make you try to open and makeout with girls without saying a word. As soon as you get your body-language down perfect and start to get cocky about it, I’m going to make you open with terrible body-language. As soon as you get that amazing job, I’m going to make you say you work at McDonald’s. As soon as you get that 6-pack and get laid and talk about how your bodyfat makes a difference, I’m going to make you wear baggy clothes to cover it up. As soon as you get used to boosting your state with good music and high-fiving your buddies and pre-drinks before the bar, I’ll make you sit in the dark in silence, going out solo, and sober.
And I’m going to make you do these things until you DO have success while doing them. Because I’m playing the cup & ball game with your self-esteem…just when your brain tries to attribute your success to where it knows the ball is, I lift the cup and the ball is gone.
And I’ll make you do this over and over and over until your brain finally accepts that the only constant in all of these changing externals is YOU. At that point your brain goes “well FUCK…I guess *I* must just be attractive then.”
And that’ll last until you stop pushing yourself out of your comfort zones. As soon as you stop pushing yourself out of your comfort zones, you’ll settle in and start to develop crutches again.
And that’s OKAY, technically. You can get laid with those crutches, just like situational confidence isn’t a BAD thing, as long as you’re IN that environment where you have that confidence. It’s just limiting yourself and not optimal in the long-run…you develop an overall better internal frame if you try to remove your crutches whenever you sense them building.
But most guys are scared to go out without their pre-game rituals. That fear is the first sign of a crutch developing.
“So, with that in mind, is it still accurate to characterize a guy’s persona as “Alpha” or “Beta” (abstract terms) if his mindset predisposes him to default to those behaviors?”
I don’t really label them as that because our identities are fluid. I’ve seen “Alpha” guys who when they were single and on the prowl with me were as alpha as can BE…but I’ve seen them enter relationships and follow the blue pill script and that same guy ends up “Beta” as fuck because he’s started taking a bunch of Beta actions.
It’s his actions that are Alpha/Beta more than HIM as a person. He can be anything, one minute to the next. For the sake of discussion we can label his overall general tendencies, but those can change over time too.
“I’m beginning to see the need to separate “Alpha” in terms of mindset, from “Alpha” in terms of process and behaviors.”
Ya, that’s what it looked like was the reason Scray was getting hated on earlier lol He was saying “getting married is a beta behavior” and people flipped their shit saying “WUT SO ROLLO IS BETA FUK U BRO” and it’s like no, he didn’t say that at all lol You could BE considered “Beta” if you started doing a bunch of Beta behaviors, because all we see are your externals…whether you’re play-acting or just low self-esteem, you txting a girl needy weepy outcome dependence shit will make you come off as “Beta” to anyone watching because we don’t know what’s inside your head.
“This is one reason I’ve never really adopted Vox Day’s social hierarchy terminology, because a Gamma or a Delta”
That shit is mental masturbation. This is why the PUA community just whittles it down to Alpha behavior/mindsets or Beta behavior/mindsets. You can have Alpha behavior with Beta mindsets or you can have Beta behavior with Alpha mindsets.
And again the question is the goal: overall general long-term well-being? Or getting pussy?
“And I’m still not convinced that Beta behavior (or maybe I should say Beta impression associated with that behavior?) can’t be converted to a net positive (Alpha) impression with the right mindset or panache applied to it.”
Sure, that’s that Julien video I always link where he talks about just believing whatever you have is awesome and the girl will “feel what you feel”.
But you can’t do that when you don’t have field experience that anyone would ever think you’re awesome, because on top of that lack of experience, you have a lifetime of social conditioning telling you “you don’t look like Chad Thundercock, you aren’t rich, you aren’t a CEO, so you can’t get attraction”. So a guy coming from that place is incapable of believing that his gay shirt or the fact that he hasn’t showered today or whatever is attractive.
“But with the correct mindset and the correct process – applying it to Game – those Beta deficits are converted to an Alpha impression.”
Right, but you can’t **GET** those mindsets without field experience following the process. Unless you’re on drugs or get hit in the head and lose the self-judgement social feedback social conditioning part of your brain or are a sociopath or spergy or whatever, where you might be able to tap into that, but those aren’t the common man lol
You HAVE to hit the field first. Otherwise guys could sit online reading self-help feel-good shit for a year and then just walk out and slay a bunch of pussy. That’s not how it actually works infield lol
“Tyler’s spergy tendencies are converted to quirky and cute advantages instead of Beta deficits.”
Right, but that’s because Tyler has used his game skills to overcome those spergy tendences and get attraction, so that he can delusionally believe that those things not only don’t matter but make him BETTER because he’s not perfect and would intimidate girls too much if he was perfect. Just like me saying “my belly makes me more attainable”. I can literally convince myself of that to the point where I feel BAD for guys with 6-pack abs…but that’s because I’ve HAD attraction while having a belly, from following the process, so my brain has something to build off.
“I don’t subscribe to the power of positive thinking, Zig Ziglar, Gorilla Mindset marketeering, but if I’m going to challenge this in a post using Game and TRP as counterarguments I want to have my facts straight.”
Ask whatever you want, always happy to clarify lol
“did a bunch this past halloween weekend, went out all four days:”
Massive fucking props dude. Will def get you feedback (FOR REAL THIS TIME LOL)
“And that’s OKAY, technically. You can get laid with those crutches, just like situational confidence isn’t a BAD thing, as long as you’re IN that environment where you have that confidence. It’s just limiting yourself and not optimal in the long-run…you develop an overall better internal frame if you try to remove your crutches whenever you sense them building.”
This is also why a lot of Naturals turn into chodes in relationships. Because they based their internals/confidence on their results when they were young and handsome and in their prime slaying pussy left and right, like scribblerg did. Because why WOULDN’T a Natural base his success on that stuff? All his social conditioning is telling him that his Chad Thundercock externals are what’s attractive to women and he’s too busy slaying pussy to read some gay internal game PUA article.
And it works out FINE for them, at the time, just like situational confidence or relying on your looks etc does. But then they got into an LTR where they agreed to not bang other girls, which removed their reason for going to the bars, which removed a lot of positive chick feedback, and they followed the blue pill believe of just investing more time and energy into making their girl the center of their universe (while she continued to have orbiters on social media and at work and in her social circles) and they get older etc and remember they don’t KNOW anything about internal confidence stuff because they’re Naturals who didn’t read this gay PUA nerd shit and besides everyone in society is telling them they’re 30, it’s time to settle down and be a good husband and stop hanging out with those bad influence buddies of theirs that take them to the bar anyway.
Eventually they hit a point where they don’t feel as pimp as they used to be because they’ve changed their external behavior a bunch (because they’re SUPPOSED to…if they didn’t change their external behavior much they’d be in a pLTR not a monoLTR lol) and their brain is starved of those reference experiences of being attractive to hordes of women, so their externals have been taken away, and that’s what their confidence was based on. So it becomes this spiral of “I guess I’m not attractive since I’m not getting feedback anymore and don’t have those young handsome rich externals that were causing attraction, oh well I had my fun and I have my girl so I guess I’m done with that life”.
Those guys weren’t inherently “Betas”, which is why the labels are dumb. They were just given a shitty road map and weren’t taught to develop their internals and ended up making it more difficult to do Alpha behaviors and keep Alpha mindsets and were encouraged to take UP Beta behaviors and Beta mindsets. They were duped by the shitty roadmap and education they were given and weren’t taught how to make up for the Beta behaviors they were taking on as part of the monoLTR/marriage deal.
“Ya, I get that you stress practice makes possible, but what Scray was arguing is that mindset has no effect on converting a Beta perceived behavior to an Alpha perceived behavior.”
It’s not that it’s CHANGED, it’s just that it doesn’t matter. Like, girls won’t ever think Tyler being spergy is alpha, they just won’t hold it against him. And because they won’t hold it against him, they’ll feel attraction for him. And when they feel attraction for him, his sperginess will matter even less.
That girl doesn’t come away from Tyler going “I sure wish OTHER guys had this weird sperg vibe, that’s so alpha” lol
“But you just said that, with lots of practice and a new mindset that results from that practice, you CAN convert a Beta perception of behavior (or some subcom handicap visual cue) into an Alpha perception as a result of that practice-created mindset.”
You’re confusing the end result (Tyler getting the girl) with the reason for it (“because he’s alpha”). You don’t get a girl “by being alpha” so much as you get the girl by “not being beta”. Tyler’s mindsets and field experience allow him to neutralize things that would hamper other guys into not mattering to the girl, but those things are still objectively not alpha things.
“In fact, your example of the cup and the ball training reinforces that if a guy has a self-belief of his own attractiveness and he applies this in game, what would be considered Beta can take on an Alpha appeal.”
They just don’t take on a beta appeal. Think of it like everything starts at neutral and it can either move toward Alpha or toward Beta. Brad Pitt buying a drink isn’t “being Alpha”, just his value mindsets and giving value attitude etc make that move “not Beta”. Whereas an AFC buying a drink is “being Beta” because his value mindsets etc are all shitty and taking value.
“Objectively, Alpha is Alpha, Beta is Beta, but if the Game becomes all about you and your mastery of it, then can Beta cues subjectively take on an Alpha appeal as a result of that mastery?”
When she’s attracted she’ll minimize/ignore/rationalize your flaws away and/or convince herself that those flaws are actually attractive. But they’re still objectively FLAWS. As soon as she loses attraction, those flaws will be seen as the flaws they are.
“buying a girl flowers and drinks and whatever else = beta.”
Right, like OBJECTIVELY that’s a beta move. You can do it from an Alpha value-giving mindset where it won’t count AGAINST you, and if she’s attracted she may even rationalize that it’s an attractive quality because she’s in the NRE stage where EVERYTHING you do is amazing…but she’s not going to walk away and have AFC Chode Man approach her and offer to buy her a drink and go “WOW HE’S ALPHA” lol
Does that make sense?
Now keep in mind that this is the EXECUTION of this. The MINDSETS that we want guys to have are the delusional belief that their flaws ARE attractive, because that will help give them good subcomms. ie – if you’re insecure about your looks you won’t approach with good entitled subcomms…but if you delusionally believe your looks are SEXY, you WILL. It’s not that you’ve actually turned your looks into the new universal definition of sexy for her, it’s that she just won’t hold your looks against you, and may rationalize that she likes those things about you when you’re flipping all the other switches.
She’ll basically categorize you in an “other” category where you’re not the same as other guys with the same looks, you’re “different” because you flipped all those other switches. Like scray isn’t a “short guy” to girls, girls will probably even complain ABOUT short guys to scray forgetting that he’s a short guy. Same with my minority buddies, where girls will complain about guys of THEIR race to them, because they literally don’t consider my buddies the same as THOSE guys because THOSE guys are unattractive and the girls see those guys’ flaws, whereas my buddies flip enough switches that those things aren’t considered flaws to the girl while she’s attracted. If she 180’s on them and loses attraction or goes War Brides or the NRE wears off etc, she’ll start to see them as the same as the other guys.
@Sentient @scray @Rollo
“I am glad to see Yareally and Rollo and I are on the same page… Scray is still on the other side.”
wut? I honestly can’t understand what you guys think Scray is saying lol, he’s saying the same thing I’m saying.
Scray says “no rollo is unknowingly on my and the PUA side.”
lol I agree. Again this is one of those situations where you guys agree with us, you just don’t understand what Scray is saying ’cause he keeps assuming you guys are gonna connect the dots to where he’s at when he pre-emptively answers your questions that you don’t realize you’re gonna ask yet lol I’m just baby-stepping through the thought process for you guys patiently so what I’m saying sounds more agreeable.
“When you view how the arbiter views things, it will make sense… and Brad Pitt’s flowers will be Alpha as Fuck to her… Alpha Provider”
That’s not “giving flowers” being alpha. That’s “Brad Pitt is alpha, but doing a beta behavior, but has enough value to get away with it (and she may hamster rationalize that she likes it, but only from HIM)”. You guys are jumbling cause, effect and reason all into one big lump lol You gotta dissect it past the surface level.
Like, with your guys’ theory any high-value dude should be impossible to blow himself out because just everything he does is alpha. It would be impossible for Brad Pitt to ever get rejected or lose attraction because everything he’s doing is now alpha. That doesn’t make any sense.
Take any alpha guy infield and have him do a bunch of needy texting and outcome dependent behavior and he’ll lose attraction. You guys seem to be implying that his texts will just become alpha and his outcome dependent behavior will just become alpha and attractive…so how could he ever lose attraction once he has it?
Doesn’t make any sense lol There are inherently beta things that, if he does too much of them, and doesn’t have the internal mindsets etc to neutralize them from crippling his value, or doesn’t have the value to take the occasional beta hit, he will lose attraction.
Have you guys never seen an alpha dude lose a girl before?? Is it just any guy who EVER loses attraction or doesn’t get a girl wasn’t an Alpha in your mind? Doesn’t make any sense lol
Will check em out today.
“also calling a brexit for trump…he’ll come in with a surprise win”
lol Trump will win in a landslide. Anyone who doubted him doesn’t fully grasp how universal red pill concepts are, even on a mass scale. Literally everything that’s happened has followed red pill shit (from Hillary’s solipsistic corruption, to what the public is reacting to and how, to the way her campaign is handling things, to the way Trump is handling things, to the trends in the voter demographics, to the media trends, etc literally EVERYTHING) including what’s about to happen in the next few days.
@having a bad day @Rollo
“they’re saying that you don’t NEED to have any particular mindset… and you can STILL get your dick wet… you just have to display the external cues that indicate that you have the ‘proper’ mindset (sexually successful mindset)… not actually have the mindset…
= fake it til you make it… (note – if you strictly follow MM, that underlying mindset is built into the process…)”
This. That’s why I say if you follow MM to the letter, and stuff like that 25 Points by Tyler etc, you’ll get laid. Because all girls care about is the end result they see.
But good internals can help make up for weaknesses in your flawed externals, or neutralize the weaknesses in your flawed externals. That doesn’t make your flawed externals alpha, they just won’t be held against you as hard.
“I think this is applicable for a lot of different experiences, but I believe what TRP does is serve as a catalyst for this mindset change, which then changes process for a man downstream.
i don’t disagree with this… and i think what you seem to be trying to get at is correct… you can change your mindset… which CAN then lead to a change in your externals… ”
The problem is you CAN’T *TRULY* change your mindsets without field reference experience. That’s just not how it plays out when you teach guys to get girls.
I get the theory, like I get the feel-good “but if I just make him have a positive attitude, girls will gravitate toward him” but that’s just not how it plays out infield. If it was, we could take a guy who’s just read internal theory for 5 years about how his height doesn’t matter and put him infield and he’d be slaying pussy. But the reality is he won’t be able to execute on that and that internal mindset we programmed him with will fall apart completely infield because it’s not based on anything. It has to be based on little reference experiences infield to slowly solidify.
That’s why half the RVF forum and Manosphere and PUA community and MRA community and MGTOWs and shit can all understand all this shit, but when I take them out infield 90% of them will chode out and do fuck and all. Because they talked a big game at the pre-game, until I put a pretty girl in front of them or made them have to approach one and then it all falls apart because they don’t regularly go out and push their comfort zones.
A measure of how good a guy’s internals are isn’t having him game in his favorite venue wearing his lucky shirt etc. It’s taking him out of his comfort zone and seeing whether he can still feel entitled to get the girl and 90% of the time that feel-good mindset stuff that’s based on nothing if he isn’t going out and following the process, falls apart completely.
It SHOULDN’T, theoretically, in an ideal world. But in execution that’s just what happens. AFC Scray can listen to me tell him his height doesn’t matter but he will NEVER fully believe it until he experiences little bits of success for himself and pieces together that same belief through field experience.
Again it’s the exact same dynamics of how half of what I say people either argue with it or THINK they believe it but don’t FULLY believe it, until they go try it for themselves and go “HOLY SHIT HE WAS RIGHT”. Like even the guys who BELIEVE me when I say “laser eye-contact will cause X reaction”, and fully believe 100% that I know what I’m talking about and that must be true, don’t TRULY believe it to their core until they go infield and actually EXECUTE lasers and FEEL it and get that reference experience in their brain and then come back going “OMG IT WAS AMAZING WOW!!”
“BUT you can do it the other way, too… change your externals to lead to a change in your internals/mindset… and in fact that’s the easier/faster/more robust way to do that… because it’s objectively measurable… AND taking action trumps ‘thinking’… BC it builds those references experiences that you need to consolidate those mindset ‘changes’, which WILL lead to a change in your internals/mindset…”
This. This is why I recommend a period of hyperfocus for newbies at the start. Because they need to be infield gathering reference experiences. It’s the fastest way they’re going to learn. And as long as we help them channel their success into “because I’m awesome and this technique helps me display that awesomeness” instead of “I’m still garbage but this magic technique is awesome”, they’ll slowly develop internals from taking external action.
“Your old…I doubt you went into the relationship for the first few years an emotionless drone”
If he wasn’t at some point attractive to her, he wouldn’t have been in a relationship, unless it was an arranged marriage or some kind of accidental pregnancy from a hammered one night stand. At some point he was attractive to her even if it slipped off fast. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been in a relationship TO fall off in lol
It’s like when guys say “I got her but I didn’t use any of that Mystery Method stuff”, no you DID use MM even if it wasn’t consciously, or you wouldn’t have gotten her in the first place.
“And buying her a drink would not appear alpha to her. She would see a very high value man doing something beta. Now a (former) Brad Pitt would have to do a heck of a lot of beta to overcome that initial, assumed high value, and she’d probably overlook (or more likely not notice) that one instance since it’s like taking a cup of water out of a pool.
Now, Brad Pitt gets down on both knees and with all his heart begs for sex…”
This. Like…Brad Pitt can blow himself out through beta behavior. What you guys are saying sounds like you think Brad Pitt can’t blow himself out. Him begging for sex is objectively inherently a beta behavior.
ANY guy, however alpha he is, if he takes up enough beta behaviors, will lose attraction. How is this even debatable? I’m not trolling I legitimately don’t understand where you guys are coming from on this lol
“The overlooking is easily explained as simply not perceiving HIM as beta. For some reason, you can’t, or won’t, separate the action from the man.”
This lol And this is the disconnect that leads to “WUT U SAID MARRIAGE IS BETA SO UR SAYING ROLLO IS BETA?!?!?! FUK OFF SCRAY U SHOULD BE BANNED FOR INSULTING ROLLO!!!” lol
Again feel free to ask questions. This is an important subject to clarify on and a big part of why the Manosphere does a lot of James Bond LARP’ing (“BRO U GOTTA JUST POST UP AT THE BAR AND NOT RISK MAKING A WRONG MOVE OR ELSE UR A BETA IF U MAKE A BETA MOVE!!!!”) so I’m happy to clarify the nuances. Again this is stuff that sorts itself out infield easier than in a discussion lol
“That’s your mindset you’re listening to.”
Like I say, the internal mindset we want Brad Pitt to have is different than the objective reality of how things work. Why is this getting lost on you guys lol
“Skittles guy performed one of the most egregious beta actions there is – he gave a girl candy. The girl perceived it as the ultimate evidence that he was an alpha asshole.”
Then if an AFC Chode gives her skittles tomorrow, she’ll fuck him? Because giving her candy is now alpha?
It’s not the act of giving the candy, that in itself is a beta move that will blow out AFC Chodes. It’s all the stuff AROUND that act that makes him alpha.
Or like othergrain says: “you’re missing all the little nuances of it.”
“Yea, buying her candy is a cute little beta move. But that’s not all he did. The candy was the “pull” to his beta-takeaway “push”. So it was a net alpha move.”
This. An AFC Chode giving her candy will just reinforce to her that he’s a chode. The candy move works for him because he has attraction already and is already aloof enough that the candy balances it out, and the gift he’s giving is flipping expectations (he’s giving a shitty little gift instead of an expensive impressive one) which adds a bunch of other dynamics to the equation.
It’s all the stuff around the actual act of giving her something. Otherwise we’d just tell AFCs to go buy girls candy and drinks.
Oh god where to start with THIS shit lol
“the actions are beta when they are done by the perceived BY THE ARBITER betas.”
Are you saying a DPA guy can never turn a girl off or get rejected or lose attraction? No matter how much he authentically, dynamically, and passionately begs for sex and fails all her shit-tests? This is why your DPA thing is dumb lol You keep trying to push your “system” that’s just an oversimplification of a bunch of internal stuff with a mystical woo-woo spin added to it.
“The “pitch” of PUA as an equalist leveling device is one of the oldest and most seductive pitches of all time… language skill can be developed to an advanced degree but not the same degree among all… and some just don’t have an ear for it. PUAHate was full of recidivist practitioners for a reason. But this is a different issue altogether.”
lol no, anyone is capable of executing any of this stuff. If anyone plays Beethoven’s notes exactly the way he’s laid out, that person will execute the same song Beethoven wrote down. A lot of people might NOT play all the notes right, but that has nothing to do with the “pitch” that if you play the notes you’ll get the song being wrong lol
“all lost their shit over women at various times, despite their fluency.”
This is such a ridiculous oversimplification of a million dynamics that played into that stuff. If you get dumped can we say DPA doesn’t work? If Rollo gets dumped can we say all his writing was bullshit? lol
brb boxer got sucker-punched in the face in a bar, now boxing don’t real!
The early PUA guys don’t have the same understanding of some of the stuff Rollo’s written about. They’re simply missing pieces of the puzzle. A boxer not having a right arm doesn’t mean punches with the right arm don’t work.
“it’s an adjunct. As a DPA guy you can be happy and not get laid… women will be attracted to you regardless… drawn into your orbit.”
Nonsense feel-good fluff that guys who are way too up their ass about internal game spout because guys who are scared to take action will go “Ya man!! If I just be an alpha male bitches will fall from the sky!!” It just gives guys an excuse to go do a bunch of other shit thinking that they’re upping their magical draw them into his orbit shit so they can avoid the field and approaching and ego-protect.
Props on going out and challenging yourself. Like I say, you are putting in more effort than most guys who have WAY better logistics and environments and opportunities to work with that they completely take for granted. I have mad respect for that ’cause I had to hustle to get my ass to venues where I could approach for most of my pickup career until recently where I moved into the nightlife district to not have to struggle so much.
“chat up some bartenders. they all think I am cool from getting all the drinks.”
Man do I ever wanna see you sarging in a better city lol You have no idea how far ahead of the game you are compared to most guys starting out, when they have way more opportunity than you.
“I’ve got some fries I ordered.”
Props on trying to extract but if you get too much resistance then just eat fries with her, spike her emotions and try again after the fries lol
“fries come. everyone shares them. I get black girl to feed me a fry.”
“try to pull black chick again. she gets up, walks off. I follow her. she walks out the bar, passed the chairs outside, and then maybe 20 feet away from the bar. Interesting the she walked that far…usually a girl will walk the minimum distance and be like “okay, what do you want.””
She’s trying to make sure she has isolation so you can escalate on her. Right in front of the bar her friends will see her.
“So I put my back to a lamp post and chat her up…which wasn’t ideal since I should have had her facing away from the bar.”
Yup, step so that her back is facing the bar and she “forgets” about it, and at this point you should be up in her space instead of leaning back. Like the Liam Mcrae Rapid Escalation stuff…get up in her grill and escalate the sexual tension. ’cause sooner or later “nurse joy and charazard show up again and pull her away.”
“not quite two hours later I text black girl “Nurse joy didn’t pull out charazard’s pokeballs did she…” but heard nothing yet.”
Probably gonna be wood. Push for the SNL instead. Thinking back, what could you have done when you were outside together to get her to leave with you? Could you have escalated and moved her away, could you have taken her somewhere close where her friends wouldn’t find her, could you have engaged her friends when they came to get her, etc?
“I did the usual of letting my hand go more slack after we first shook — so she was free to take it back if she wanted. But she held it there for about 10 sec or so.”
Huge ioi. I do this a lot. Depending on the venue and how cockblocky her friends are, if she doesn’t take her hand back right away try putting it up around your neck so you end up in the slow-dance position with the space cut so you can laser easy and build tension etc, if you want to fuck around with more kino.
Either way just understand that that’s a signal that she’s comfortable with you and that’s something you can build on.
“pulling her back towards me, stroking her kneee and upper thigh, grabbing her necklace that was right by her boobs, and ofc at the last bar I rediscovered her she was sitting right on me just about, pushing into me”
Re-reading that does it smack you in the face how much attraction you had? lol We often miss or second-guess these things in the moment but when you type up an FR it’s like “…oh shit, I guess I could’ve just pulled her in and made out with her outside FUCK!!” lol
“I acted then like I didn’t remember her and made her tell me where we met.”
“Walked to a bigger costume party. I went to this in just a hoodie. But I just acted like I was in costume. Chatted up the girls at pay area about it. Made them guess, couldn’t figure it out.”
lol I did this a bunch. “What, you mean you can’t tell? Don’t you watch TV?” etc
“but part of it was he was a guy who gave bj’s at a glory hole, and he even scratched up his knees to make it more authentic.”
wow I didn’t expect anyone to dress up as Sentient for Halloween. (OMEGA GAMMA SHOTS FIRED PEW PEWW lol)
“I was the ONLY dude that bounced around between groups. Most people were fairly open to chat…but they weren’t interested in meeting new people really. They were there just to party with their own friends. This is pretty standard for this location…and why I hate it. You don’t really have anything like a bigger city where people go out to socialize. Here there is a very strong “stick to your own group” vibe here.”
Ya these are the toughest venues to do cold approach in. It’s funny how people work that way…like why not stay home and drink for cheap if you don’t want to mingle with new people etc When you do get to a bigger city you are gonna become a club rat ’cause you’ll be like “holy shit people coming out with just one friend, and open to talkig to new people?!?!” and will be in heaven lol
“Biggest issue with this is that no one is really ever out to hook up. There’s nothing like a singles bar or anything. I’ve only VERY rarely seen any girls/guys out alone, or girls night out girls looking to hookup. Pretty much everyone everywhere I go is already picked out someone before hand — they get someone somewhere else, and THEN come to the venues. But there is nothing like I see in all these RSD vids where girls and guys are out to mingle, hook up, and have fun.”
If it helps, you’re not wrong in your observations at all. That doesn’t make the situation better, but like, you aren’t going crazy or making excuses etc This is a legitimate dynamic that happens especially in smaller towns. The solution is generally to work group theory (work your way in through the guys and work your way in over time and don’t set off any red flags etc) and social circle game so you can work your way into those circles and have access to the girls…the problem is that most of the time that’s not worth the effort ’cause the girls you’ll have access to won’t even be that great in your current city (VS Luke running social circle game in Vegas) so it feels like a lot of effort for not much reward.
“I just went around chatting with everyone, guessing their costumes and having them guess mine.”
If you were doing this in a better venue/city that wasn’t so cliquish/loud, you would be tearing shit up. You’re taking right action and building the right skillsets, you just don’t have good materials to work with right now. Like following a cake recipe but using poop instead of cake mix. So don’t beat yourself up about it.
How’s the job/moving situation looking?
“There was ONE group of people I met that was cool. More like the kind of people I run into more often at bars–more like the biker dude. We had a fun convo here, they had a great vibe. I actually went to get their numbers…and they just kept talking. I was gonna walk off, but we kept talking for like 10-15 more minutes. Got their numbers though so I can maybe meet up with them some other time. But its worth noting out of the 100+ people that were here that night, these were really the only cool sociable people there.”
lol that’s why I roll my eyes when people are like “BRO U WUD NEVER SARGE IN A BIKER BAR MY BADASS TOUGH BIKER GUYS WUD KNOW U WERE SOME CITY CHODE AND BEET U UP FOR TALKIN TO OUR GIRLS”. Yes, I would sarge those venues (cuz like hank I was working with a shitty city with a limited selection of venues so I was going to ANYWHERE I could get some experience at), and I have sarged them, and these big scary dudes are often the nicest dudes in the world if you’re just cool with them and treat them like normal people instead of putting on a shtick or pre-judging them as some stereotype. But the people who say that stuff are the people who picture PUA as being this in-your-face AMOG everyone and try to makeout with their girlfriend in front of them stereotype lol
“Very different from RSD where they were out in that outdoor area with all the palm trees, and that other venues with that side area where he was doing the hub thing — like there is an actual VENUE.”
Note that they PICK those venues FOR that reason, and they move girls to quieter areas of the venues on purpose etc. Again it’s like only having poop to make your cake with. Small tight venues, especially with live music, are tough to do anything in once they start getting crowded. In the summer there’s options like street game, smoking area game, patio game, etc at a lot of those venues, but as it gets colder it becomes a pain in the ass.
“This what was so depressing about it all. Jesus, I saw HUNDREDS of people that night…and there were maybe 10 max I would say were bangable for me. Its like, its halloween, everyone is out, everyone is dressed up and sexy, and there is basically fuck nothing.”
lol this is the stuff that will help you get to a new better city. Like it’s impossible that you’re going to live your whole life and die where you live right now. You’re GOING to get to a different city and it’s probably going to have some better options than this one when you do. And when you DO get there you’re going to destroy that city with the skillset you’re building. You’re basically training with massive weights on while other guys stand around and txt at the gym as their workout.
“Right after I was creeping back into being suicidal again, but I’ve been there enough that I pulled myself out.”
lol you’ll probably always creep back toward that after really bad nights. Your big problem right now is that a lot of this stuff is out of your control…you’re not CHOOSING to live there, or CHOOSING to go to venues that don’t have selection etc, so there’s a lot of powerless frustration. Plus you’re getting glimpses of positive results where you KNOW that in another city in another venue that shit would blow up huge…like the guy who’s on the bench but knows he can hit a homerun and the coach won’t let him play lol
This is the stuff that will force you into doing ANYTHING you can do to get to another city, even if it’s not ideal or means a lifestyle hit etc. Like the current city I live in, as soon as I saw it I knew it was perfect for sarging in, so I moved into a complete shithole dump just to get myself here and it took a couple months to get out of there into a better place and that move had a lot of conseqeunces that I’ve had to recover from that over the last couple years, but it was worth it because when I go out tonight I know I’ll be surrounded by hot girls lol
“***#1 THING**** I need more options on relocating. Any more options/suggestions on doing that? Companies to work for, especially something like a short time work you can go out to a new place for a bit and get a job? I just need to have a job available for a place I move to…I will probably have to use up just about all my money just to get there…I will MAYBE have enough to get housing, but will probably have to get family to help me out even then.”
Has anyone offered suggestions on this? Gotta figure on a red pill forum full of self-made men, someone would have some ideas for ya. And again as much as I make fun of the RVF forum, they might be able to help you with some of this. Same with the RSD Inner Circle for your area if there’s a forum section for it. Red pill guys, especially PUA types, understand what you’re trying to do…explain your situation (that you want to move to a better city to sarge) and ask them for advice and you never know what you’ll find.
Also befriending guys in the bar, like that band you befriended, follow that up and see where it leads. Travel to that other city to sarge and focus on just befriending guys there that might let you crash at their place for a couple months while you look for work at McDonalds etc. Someone somewhere sooner or later will be able to help you out, especially if you can give them value by wingmanning them and bringing good positive energy etc
“Also, kind of HAD to get the gestures down, since it was so loud. Later on, I was able to use good gestures to compliment my voice to kinda make up for the noise.”
This is the reframe for those loud venues…they give you a chance to work on your body language and subcomms/mannerisms. Sometimes I’ll literally just say nonsense jibberish to the girl because I know she can’t hear me but I’ll say it with different facial expressions and act like she said something offensive etc for fun lol It lets me practice giving off different vibes or creating a story for us (like where she offended me at one point but I forgave her etc) through just my expressions/mannerisms since we can’t hear what we’re saying.
But it’s not ideal lol ideally the venue has quiet areas somewhere that you can lead her to or stick to opening in.
A lot of the reason these venues HAVE loud music is because no one HAS anything to really say…make it hard for people to talk and no one has to feel insecure that they don’t know how to socialize with others and they can relax and not worry about that lol
“after I brought up the free beers story with biker dude, I told him about my job problems and the wrecks and issues. This was a good set up — funny energetic story up front, then go into more vulnerable story afterwards”
Do this strategy more, especially whenever you visit that other city. This is how you get people to 1) like you because you GAVE them value and good emotions at first, and 2) offer you solutions if they can help you because they like you and WANT to help you. Like whenever you’re in a set with guys who are receptive to you and you have them liking you, drop into your desire to move to that other city and difficulty finding a job there. Specifically those problems, ’cause they can’t help with your health or whatever, but they might know someone who can hook you up with work or a roommate etc
“The older black girl said “you remind me of a guy I know named Bob.” and I just smoothly added in “well bob must be incredibly handsome.””
lol we have the same sense of humor.
“She said, when the others had walked off, that the slutty girl had a husband who was there so I shouldn’t hit on her any more. I said “Im not hitting on her.” because I wasn’t”
lol they just see the attraction spikes in her subcomms whenever you walk away from her abruptly, and they assume you’re purposely doing something to cause those spikes aka hitting on her.
“Also did good with just giving her disapproving looks and blank stares like I did with the slut. Just stop talking and stare at her lol. So she’s have to fill in the space “What? What is it? It wasn’t that bad was it?””
lol now translate this to the loud venue where you can’t talk. Give those same blank stares and disapproving looks etc
“but she was resistant to hold hands, kind of barely shook. Issue here was just on her bf being just a few feet away lol.”
This lol. This is why I push so hard for guys to learn about lasers and tonality and innuendo etc Because you can build a ton of sexual tension but it’s all under the radar VS kino which is great but sets off a shitload of red flags. I can be talking to a guy’s wife right beside him and he doesn’t know what we’re doing but he can FEEL her being attracted to me, but can’t really pin it down to anything I’m doing because we’re just having a conversation.
“Much better there, sneak in that FTC right there.”
Good, the FTC SEEMS dumb, but it’s a mental hack that helps make people more receptive because they don’t have to immediately decide “do I want to spend my entire day engaging this person” where they’re more choosy/picky about who they engage…VS someone who’s just dropping in for a couple minutes and they can loosen up and not care, where you get more of a chance to connect with them and build a good vibe because they aren’t as on the defensive, and then you just ignore your own FTC if it’s going well.
““That’s cool. We’re just gonna get some coffee as all. 123””
Good place for Julien’s “don’t worry I’m her gay friend from years ago, I’m gonna take her shopping” etc disqualifiers to diffuse the friends.
“I keep saying “123…whats the rest…123” asian looks at her friend and back to me. She then tells me the rest of her number.”
lol this is why it’s like, you can HAVE attraction, but if you don’t know how to handle the other external dynamics like logistics, social pressure, group approval, etc it can fuck a good set up. She’ll probably have been scolded for it right after and flake.
“also would have helped a bit with friend if I could have said “No no, Sarah and I are friends. Just give us a minute. Just one minute. Real fast I promise.”
This. Julien also uses “okay fine, just let us say goodbye, we’re just saying goodbye, two seconds”. As he explains it: that tells them that you’re GOING to leave, which helps them back off because until then they don’t know if you’re trying to take their friend right then and there, and it lets them feel like they’ve won a little bit, and it lets them think you’re just saying goodbye when really you still get the number but more subtly lol
“Yeah I was the guy at the mall.”
Would have left this out. Just assume she knows who it is lol I’d have said “save my name as Jessica in your phone” or something, to help her sneak around on her boyfriend/cockblock friend, and create a conspiracy roleplay.
“Anyway, part way into this conversation when I was chatting with the other guy about girls she just says “Hank you have too many girls.””
lol what you’re doing is WAY OUTSIDE OF SOCIAL NORMS. Most people could never do it. That’s why you go to venues and all these cliques are just hanging out with the people they already know. They’re all scared to put themselves out there like you’re doing and their lives will generally be mundane and eventless because of it.
“It was good though in that it was a situation where it felt WEIRD *not* to open a girl. I’ve gotten to the point were I’ve rewired my mind like that.”
I have a buddy who opens constantly and he says that’s what it’s like for him. He did it enough that now it feels weirder NOT to open them. He feels more comfortable talking to ANYONE at a bar than he does NOT talking to anyone, whereas most people are the reverse because they don’t approach as much as he did.
“I’m also prepped now to open a girl going into a car…kind of like how I briefly opened the asian girl in the cafe…then the next time I saw a asian girl in a cafe a couple days ago I actually sat down next to her and ran game on her for a few minutes…and now I know how to turn that all into a pull.”
Reference experiences are king. It’s all baby steps and exposing yourself to these different situations. That’s why Tyler Julien etc can adapt to random circumstances infield, because their brains have seen enough similar circumstances to quickly piece together how to navigate that new situation competently.
“This works on everyone, but its especially good on guys.”
Guys are generally friendly and just as in their head scared to socialize as you are, or MORESO most of the time, because they don’t even HAVE a process-based skillset to fall back on when they’re nervous. It makes THEIR night better to engage them because it helps THEM loosen up and get more social in general.
When you walk into a venue, most of the time everyone there is just scared shitless to express themselves. When you can really see them that way, you almost just feel bad for them, and opening becomes almost about helping them express themselves more than taking something from them.
That’s why I introduce random girls to random guys and stuff, because I know I’m making everyone’s night better. And the guys usually give me free drinks. lol
“But the costume party/free beer are great stories that will help if you want to make friends with people fast.”
BECAUSE you’re out infield testing these stories out, the field is helping you naturally refine them into stories that have more impact or sound cooler or DHV you better or have harder hitting punchlines or rhythms etc This is why you can’t learn this stuff just reading and theorizing, just like a comedian has to go up and test his routines until he perfects them.
“Chat up a guy who I *think* is a patron…but ends up he’s a bartender…The fact that he actually WORKED there was telling.”
These are the best accidental opens because those guys are used to people only engaging them because they’re behind the bar where they clearly have value (aka people trying to take value from them, free drinks, access to the venue, etc). So when you open them by accident off shift they’re like “hey this person is engaging me for ME as a human being, they don’t even realize I work here and could be giving him free drinks and shit”.
And if you want to make it “accidentally” happen more often, engage any guys/girls you see sitting alone near the end service area of the bar drinking or eating, like where the waitress punches stuff into the machine or collects trays of drinks or whatever, there’s always a spot at the bar where off-shift staff chills because it’s a bit out of the way and they can chat with their coworkers during slow periods. Sometimes this’ll be a little table right beside that spot depending on the venue. Post up beside them and just shoot the shit and you’ll find that most of the time they’re someone who just got off-shift or is starting their shift soon or who’s just dropped in to kill some time in a place they feel comfortable.
“He smuggles weed, drops acid, and is an overall irresponsible asswipe. I didn’t mind this at the time…but later on he gave me reason to.”
lol in the future you can tell these stories and just keep what bar he works at anonymous or say it was years back in another city etc so no one recognizes the guy, but like, even just this intro is like “what happens next???” captivating.
“they haven’t formed a circle they can lock you out of.”
Really this is the key. If they aren’t in that full circle exclusion mode, you should be able to mingle with them. Just keep things light, don’t get too kino aggressive blatant, feel out the dynamics and work the group and figure out who’s with who…the girls in the group are subconsciously paying attention to all of this to scope out your value in relation to their men (always seeking the Hypergamous best option). And classic group theory, lead the men and you’ll lead the women etc
““Yes, I have all the diseases.””
“So what I think happened here is our chat at first was neutral enough, but as we started chatting about dicks it got too sexual for her.”
This. If he wasn’t there, it would have probably been fine. But with him there it’s ASD/judgement/social pressure/drama/etc because he’s probably NOT a guy who ever has conversations like that with her.
“I simply take my hand, plant it on her face, and push her away.”
“Don’t remember how all this ended, I know though she put her hand on my face and pushed me in retribution. Later she just stared at me kinda blankly (she didn’t seem mad or anything) and we locked eyes for maybe 15 seconds then she walked off.”
Hint: she wasn’t MAD. 😉 I hope I don’t have to explain this one to you lol
“…and it still looks better than yours.””
“Redhead BLOWS THE MOTHERFUCK UP”
fucking lol Beautifully done. And note what it does to her emotions. This is what I’m talking about when I say EMOTIONAL IMPACT. Did she give a single fuck or notice whether your shoes matched your belt, or how expensive your watch was, or whether you have a six-pack or any of that other stupid shit guys worry about? No, in that moment when you’re giving her emotional IMPACT, none of that shit matters.
That’s why Krauser’s style of game falls apart outside of the one specific set of circumstances he approaches in, and it’s why he has to dress in his skull stuff at age 40, because his style of game itself doesn’t have a lot of emotional impact, it’s the bare minimum of it, so the girls end up taking in all that other stuff about him. Same with the RVF guys I make fun of too, who are concerned about their pocket squares and $300 shoes…that shit only matters if you aren’t making emotional impact.
When you properly make emotional impact it’s like an EMP nuke on her entire computer system, you take over her RAS completely and all that other shit becomes irrelevant.
“Very very different vibe…and nice to see another guy confirm it for me”
Ya, the thing you’re describing is a thing that legitimately happens. Like you are literally just in a shitty city for what you’re trying to do. You could move to almost any larger city and have much better opportunities. You’re not crazy or imagining it or making excuses. Some cities are worse for this than others.
“I later learn that night that he’s a musician in a band. Awesome. These are my peeps. The drummer at the venue where people bought me the beers was the same way. They are all super chill dudes. They are loners, don’t chat people up unless prompted, but they don’t look like losers at all. They are completely at ease being alone. They don’t look desperate or sad or anything. Very zen.”
’cause they put themselves up on stage in front of MASSIVE social pressure of the entire room watching and judging them, and then express themselves through their music. They’re doing something similar to what you’re doing, so it builds their internals.
“I think I’d like to go on tour with a band. Don’t really want to go into music but I know already I get along very well with musicians and they travel a lot like I would like to. So once I find the right people and get my shit together (read — health issues) I want to see if I can go gypsy and ride around the country for a spell. Regardless, I know now to hit up more music venues and try to hang out with more musicians. Also, musicians are an AMAZING source of stories and DHVs and shit.”
Ya man, go for it. Life is short lol Befriend dudes and that networking will help with a lot of problems, like finding places to stay etc. Like this guy you could come into his bar for a drink and shoot the shit and get him laughing and then be like “ya I been job hunting in Better City all day but can’t catch a break so I figured fuck it I’ll drown my sorrows in a beer. I gotta get outta this town!” etc You never know where that conversation is gonna lead.
“Through all this we had locked eye contact. I remember very clearly she did the thing that Julia Roberts did in that clip with James Franco, where her eyes dart back and forth between his eyes.”
James Franco’s lasers in that scene (and in his General Hospital scenes with the blonde chick) are epic. They seem over the top exaggerated to watch from a 3rd person perspective, but if you do what he’s doing to girls it’s HUGE. And remember the more you cut the space the more the sexual tension builds.
“I switch over to the others and guess their costumes.”
Anything you can think of that you could have done differently here? It sounds like you basically had a one on one isolated conversation with this girl (even if the isolation was just her back was facing her friends). How could you have taken this somewhere?
“Apparently, one guy actually DID whip out his dick. The girls are disgusted and leave.”
Sorry I was pretty hammered.
“Guy clearly isn’t gonna do it, but I have to go.”
Good choice. If your goal was just to get drunk you could do that at home for cheaper. If your goal is to get girls, especially when you find one you’re attracted to, you make that shit happen lol You can always get another beer (and knowing you, someone will probably buy you one lol)
“They walk off to the car. I ask for her number.”
If it’s any consolation the number would probably be wood anyway. The question to ask is is there anything else you could’ve done with this girl to change this outcome?
Could you have gotten her to stay behind when her friends left? Through group approval, through saying/doing something with her, through LYING if you have to (“oh my friends are showing up soon, keep me company for one drink”, etc), introduce her to other people so she’s locked into new conversations, introduce her friends to other people so they fuck off, etc
Like you HAD lasers, so you HAD attraction going…but can you see any way you could’ve gotten her to stick around while they go off?
“Head back in. Bartender said he was going to bring my beer in but I don’t see it. He just tossed it.”
lol no surprise. But you made the right choice chasing her down. Who knows you might run into her next week and be able to bust on her for not having the cool glowy eyes anymore so now you’re not attracted to her etc
“Not going to go into a long psychoanalysis of myself, but I’m pretty sure I’m wholly or partially a psychopath.”
lol a lot of this stuff will sort itself out when you have more control over your world. Stuff like the bartender being a dick is just so uncalled for and so unwarranted and so needlessly assholish, combined with him having status where you can’t really flip your shit at him and get him back (because it would ultimately be a net negative for you since you would lose a venue, maybe have to deal with legal issues, etc), so it’s like the ultimate frustration. I mean, you’re an adult, in an adult environment, and basically got “bullied” when you’re out there trying to give value to people and didn’t do anything wrong to this guy. What kind of bullshit is THAT lol
Down the road you’ll just feel bad for people like that, because you’ll have enough control over your life and have enough abundance and be coming from a place of value where stuff like that will just seem silly to you but not cause any real emotional reaction…you’ll look down on people like that but more in an “I feel sorry for you that you’re trapped in this low vibration headspace where you would do something like that” rather than in a “you’re dead to me you piece of shit” way lol But right now you don’t have any real control over most of your life and then this guy comes along and adds to it kicking you when you’re down, in the middle of the one area you’re finally starting to get a bit of control over, and it’s like man fuck this guy.
““Hey Its Hank.” she says.”
ioi. Not that she remembered your name ’cause she might just be good at it, but that she re-opened you when she didn’t have to and used your name instead of “oh uhh hey.”
““Are you taller than me?” I ask.”
Good. I use this a lot lol if a girl takes off a shoe to measure her height against me it’s a huge ioi (I mean look at that floor gross). I always just glance down blatantly at their shoes and simply say “You’re CHEATING.” They know what I mean and start to qualify themselves.
“I start to leave…but redhead isn’t bad for a redhead…hmmm…”
lol the better your game skills get, the more attraction you’ll get from girls, and the more variety of girls you’ll find go from “not my type” to “hmmm…” when you feel that sexual tension/attraction with them. You’ll probably always prefer a certain type of chick but you’ll be surprised at what you’re open to. My ACTUAL type of girl that really triggers my hindbrain isn’t the type I thought I liked back in my AFC days at all, it’s almost the exact opposite type lol But I wouldn’t have learned that without going out and meeting lots of different girls.
When you have these “hmmm…” moments, just run with them and don’t question it. Sexual attraction/chemistry/tension is fun, see where it goes.
“Go back in. There she is. She’s with her bf and the other couple playing pool. I go join them.”
“I’m not really good enough to poach the redhead from her bf now, but I decide to just stick in there and get some references.”
Good man. You could’ve gone home or not re-engaged this group and missed out on everything you’re about to learn in the rest of this report lol But you pushed yourself. The field is about gathering reference experiences. Julien’s motto is “I wonder what would happen IF…” Like “I wonder what would happen IF I went back into this set…”
“Redhead’s bf is standing in front of her, she’s sitting down behind him on a stool. I ask the bf”
Good man. Classic group theory: engage the guy instead of the girl. It lets her observe how he reacts to you and helps her sort out who’s the Hypergamous best option.
““We are. 25 to 0.””
That’s a hell of a pool score lol
““I also helped” the redhead says.”
Qualifying herself. ’cause of the emotional impact you made and your accent teasing etc. Plus she may have seen you lasering with the glowy eyes girl. Basically why WOULDN’T she be attracted to you? Look how lame her boyfriend is compared to the value you’ve displayed to her.
““ahh, so you are the cheerleader.” I say to the gf”
Good lol Her BF said a bit of a socially retarded spergy thing and you turned it into good fun feels and a bit of a roleplay.
“Redhead just happens to bump into me as she gets up to take a shot.”
ioi. She wouldn’t bump into a creepy old homeless man covered in garbage.
“However, when she leaned over, she also wiggled her ass around a bunch…which was NOT visible from where her bf was standing…but WAS visible to me standing behind her.”
lol not an accident. She knows her body and what it’s doing and she knows where the guys around her are.
“I realize bf looks like a movie star. I tell him this. I can’t remember the actor’s name but I describe the movies he is in. Bf doesn’t know. Bf leaves to go take a shot.”
lol guys with their girlfriends in bars are usually pretty lame. They’re either super friendly chodes or they’re super aloof paraoid every guy is hitting on their girl and can’t loosen up and have fun (outcome dependent/scarcity, go monogamy!).
Pool is funny because the guy HAS to keep leaving to take a shot, leaving you alone with his girl. You can bet every shot he took that game was frustrating as fuck to him because all he’s thinking is “fuck this guy is gonna keep talking to her!!” lol That’s probably part of why he panicked.
“Redhead sits down on a stool. I sit down next to her.”
Sitting down next to her was the big final trigger. Looks pro-active like you’re trying to hit on her. Whereas if you had naturally been sitting there already or stood somewhere and she stood/sat beside you, you could engage her with less triggering because that looks less gamey. Also he’s picking up little buying temperature spikes and subcomms and stuff and can FEEL something’s going on even if he can’t describe it.
““Don’t talk to my girlfriend again.” He says coldly”
lolol Really this is a compliment that he views you as a threat. When a year ago he probably would’ve disregarded you completely.
““Ah no man. We’re just talking. I talk to everyone. That’s all. My name’s Hank by the way.””
Good handling of it, with the name exchange and handshake. When you offer your hand out like that in a friendly way, he’s forced to shake it because if he doesn’t he looks like a chode to his girl. You’re putting him in a super frustrating position lol The irony is to his girl it looks like you have his approval, like you initiated a friendship and he reciprocated lol so this all just builds your value to her.
Like I always say: other guys make me look GOOD. So I don’t mind other guys at ALL. They’re just going to boost MY value to the girls because I’ll always be 0.00001% cooler than them.
“If you see a guy working on your girl, just walk up, put your arm around her, give her a passionate kiss real quick, then turn to the guy and introduce yourself. You should have enough control that just by *being* there the girl is 100% into you. He *tried* doing that a bit earlier, they were a little touchy feely, but it didn’t really work.”
lol ya. There’s a whole bunch of stuff behind this, from guys being uncomfortable with sexuality in general (FI-shaming) to not being dominant enough to make a move like that sexy to the girl instead of reactive, to not having good enough social skills and confidence to pro-actively engage another guy because he’s just some monoLTR guy who watches Netflix with her all evening instead of a guy who’s out shaking 100 strangers’ hands in a night.
It’s like Julien and Todd talk about: of COURSE you’re going to be more interesting than her Borefriend, if they aren’t early into the NRE stage. You’re out pro-actively working on your social skills and flirting skills and lasers and subcomms etc while he’s not. And in a tug of war with his girlfriend, YOU’RE the one with the outcome independence, he’s not. Like everything is stacked in your favor in those situations lol Being the single guy in a social circle full of couples is dangerous as fuck, you just naturally end up attracting their girlfriends (especially when alcohol is added to it and the girls get more blatant flirty) because you’re the single guy living an exciting mysterious adventurous life and their boyfriends are just these guys that they see all the time and already know everything about and who don’t go out etc
“Him having to TELL me to stop was him blinking first in our mental staring contest. He reacted first. I was completely calm and composed…but HE is reacting to ME.”
Yup. And her hindbrain picks up on that. He’s indicating to her that you’re a threat and because women ping off their environment for how to feel and use group consensus etc, she thinks “well he must know something I don’t know” and trusts his “judgement” and attributes value to you that you wouldn’t have if he hadn’t been outcome dependent and reactive.
But why WOULDN’T he be outcome dependent? He’s in a monoLTR, that’s his GIRLFRIEND. His ONLY source of sex. If he loses her to another guy he loses his only source of sex and good emotions and validation, so he HAS to be outcome dependent.
A guy with multiple girls on the go would let you flirt and think “finally she’s busy talkig to that guy, now I can mack this waitress I keep getting the eye from” and his chick would be paying more attention to him than you.
“Just ME being there, standing around, is so unconscionable that he has to tell me off. Here is insecurity, here is him reacting to me, here is all the building blocks I could use to tank his value in his gfs eyes and raise my value. If her knight in shining armor is getting antsy around me…what does that say about me?”
“The second deeper realization I had was…you can absolutely poach a girl right under her bf nose. Yes yes, I’ve heard guys chat about being able to work over a dude so well that he actually WANTS you to take his girl because you are so cool. Its different though to experience in person.”
This is my point on the “internal VS external” exchange with Rollo. I can TELL you this, and you can REALLY think you believe it…but when you actually get that reference experience, that’s when you TRULY believe it. Until you get that reference experience, it’s just theory and a weak theoretical mindset in your brain.
“it doesn’t ping “hitting on her” at all…subtle as a whisper…then there is the brief outside bit…”
A big part of negs is that they come off like you AREN’T interested in her, because you’re dissing her, which sparks her attraction and eases everyone’s guard because they’re like “lol he just made fun of her, so he must not be trying to get her, he’s doing all the wrong moves, if he wanted to get her he would compliment her!” lol
“work on bf more, I didn’t chat him up enough so I seemed like a stranger and a threat…but what if i had worked on him FIRST, get him to like me as much as the band guy did earlier…so now he sees me as a friend…he has no reason to get defensive…”
Right. Like visualize that whole situation then think back to how Mystery runs a group set. He opens the guys with something interesting, gaining their approval as he DHVs being slightly cooler than them from just being unreactive and winning them over, ignoring his target, and when she chimes in he scolds her with a “simmer down, missy I’m telling a story” or whatever, then does an “is she always like this? you can dress her up but you can’t take her anywhere lol” neg that makes her group lol at her, disarms them because he’s not trying to hit on her, but her attraction goes up and she feels the need to chase his validation, and when she initiates engaging him, guys can’t get mad at HIM because he’s not the one doing the pro-active engagement, SHE is. And then the more they react to that and try to get her away from him, the more value it gives him. etc etc
“what if I came in with two girls on my arms, so it looks like *I* am taken and so have no reason to poach his girl…and what if I used one of those girls or a wingman to run interference on him..maybe to get one of those quick alone time moments with redhead…”
You might be a crazy psychopath but you’re a smart one lol Your brain is starting to connect all the elements and see the chess strategies, because you’ve got the basic techniques/mechanics down. Like now that your brain doesn’t have to focus as much on “where do I aim my eyeballs?!?! What do I say when she says this?!” etc, that frees up more processing power to start connecting those things into a bigger overall strategy. That’s why this field experience is so key, even though you’re in a shitty environment, when you get to a better one you’re going to have all of this shit down and other environments in a better city will be like child’s play to you.
Again this isn’t stuff you can learn from just reading, you have to go out and gather all these little references so that your brain can small-chunk them into more unconscious competence behaviors etc so that it can start stringing them together into a more elaborate spiderweb.
When I’m doing this stuff I don’t have think about these strategies…I CAN think about them, and I can discuss and explain them to people, and if you show me footage I can break down every minute detail second to second, but in the moment a lot of this stuff is on auto-pilot for me because of my field experience. I KNOW how that guy is going to react, I KNOW what his girl is thinking, I KNOW how my value looks compared to his whenever he does XYZ and I KNOW the next move to capitalize on that is ABC. Because I have all those reference experiences in my head, like the ones you just collected, even if you didn’t get sex out of it.
“I walk past redheads group. I tell them I am leaving. I shake the bf’s hand first “See you later Daniel.””
lolol dick. 😀
“next, the redhead. I say only “Later” and leave off her name.”
Perfect. The more hooked she is, the less you do.
““Goodbye hank.” she says.”
She’ll remember you name a month from now lol
“Lol. Now I remember. He had a great Harley Quinn costume, complete with fake boobs lol. I ask him about the costume…ends up he has a tradition where he dresses up as the costume that most girls that year are dressing up as. He said the best one was when he dressed as a cat, and there were about 12 cat girls at the bar. A girl came up to him “Hey are you making FUN of me? I feel like you are.””
That’s a hell of a lot of work to get the same result he could get with a couple DHVs. But as long as he had fun lol
“I’m pretty good at this whole pissing people off then getting them to like me…or at least not fight me lol…should work on doing that with girls…only get them to fuck me lol.”
Welcome to my style of game lol and Julien’s. Just calibrate like a motherfucker and remember there’s no shame in owning your fuckup and sincerely apologizing if you go too far or cross a line with someone.
Props on heading out. Hope some of this helps. You’re on the right track entirely, literally all you need right now is girls you’re attracted to and these will be Lay Reports lol I have absolutely zero doubts that your FRs will be epic shit when you get to a better city. Like, zero doubt at all.
“In comes social conditioning that changes the context. So he gave her skittles (10 beta bucks points), but he also shit on social conventions (what an anniversary present should look like) and made fun of her (30 asshole points).”
My wording was bad with the neutral thing, I didn’t at all mean what you’re saying lol I meant what Scray’s talking about in his +/- trait example or like MrT’s example. I should’ve worded things better but I don’t really have to explain this concept very often because it’s not something anyone really questions.
“His Alpha or Beta status is weighted by a woman’s socialized and naturalized preconception of him before that guy behaves in any way. Those cues may be entirely inaccurate – a homeless guy wearing a borrowed Armani suit for instance – but the initial preconception weights his status to either side of neutral.”
Like I agree with this completely. The neutral scale thing was a bad metaphor on my end.
“Judging from the RSD instagram memes it would appear mindset is central to their pitch:”
“After perusing Owen’s and RSD’s Instagram you’d think it’s almost all about mindset.”
Like Scray says, you seem to have a way-off view of what we promote lol It looks like you seem to think we’re saying don’t ever focus on internal game and internal game is bad and PUA never teaches anything about internal game, just because we’re saying that objectively speaking you CAN get laid with JUST the externals and shitty internals.
I can post a dozen videos where Tyler makes fun of the guys who focus on internal woowoo too much and aren’t getting their dick wet because they don’t have technical skills, if that helps.
This is such weird behavior lol What are you trying to get at exactly?
Why can we not just make an objective simple observation that you don’t need good internals to get laid, and you guys all seem to take that as “WUT UR SAYING NEVER HAVE GOOD INTERNALS AND GOOD INTERNALS WILL MAKE YOU UNATTRACTIVE LOOK AT THIS TYLER INSTAGRAM POST HE TALKS ABOUT INTERNALS SO WUTZ UP WITH THAT!? CHECKMATE PUAS!!”
“Fuckin right? I’m overweight. I’m 6′ with a lot of muscle mass but im definitely carrying too much extra. Girls complain about fat guys to me all the time, even some that are simply not fucking fat.”
lol girls complaining about guys’ bodies to me is the funniest shit ever in my head.
“He was ripped when they got together. After she lost the attraction, even his positive attributes were now negative. They do this all the time.”
“This is why it makes no sense to say that the nature (alpha/beta) of a behavior depends on the mindset behind it. Because this is exactly what that leads to (ripped guys being fat, thin girls being fat, obese women being attractive, consensual sex being rape, and on and on), blatant contradiction and denial of reality.”
“The community just never insisted on the beta side (comfort, rapport etc.) since most guys are already doing this by default.”
We literally have a whole section of MM dedicated to that stuff lol It’s just that she doesn’t WANT those things from you UNTIL SHE’S ATTRACTED is all.
The stuff you do in Comfort/Rapport, if you do it BEFORE you have value/attraction with her, you repulse her. That’s WHY all these Nice Guys get blown out when they open and seek rapport immediately. We teach guys to do A1-A3 FIRST because those are where the girl gets attracted and then she WANTS your skittles lol
Skittles guy already HAS A2 and he gives a SHITTY gift, so those things balance out the beta’ness of giving her shit. A guy without A2 giving her skittles and flowers and presents doesn’t GET A2 because that supplication is inherently objectively beta behavior.
That doesn’t mean any guy who DOES that IS beta or BECOMES beta instantly the second he does it.
A beta behavior done before you’ve passed A2 is going to blow you out. A beta behavior done after you’ve passed A2 is STILL a beta behavior, but you have enough value that she’s okay with it or will look past it or will rationalize some of it in a positive way but that behavior is still objectively beta because if you keep doing it and do more of it, you will lose attraction…otherwise any guy who has attraction would never be able to lose it and that doesn’t make any sense lol
“Also, i’m laughing so hard at guys being butthurt at Scray “YOU SAYING THAT I’M BETA BRO”. This comment section is really a proof that guys are just as emotion driven as chicks.”
Blows my mind. I missed a few days and skimmed through and saw everyone flip their shit at scray and me when I wasn’t even HERE and it’s like wtf is going on lol