compiled by

YaReally Archive

Comment Of The Week: Game, Distilled

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 30, 2013 at 12:25 pm
Original Link

On a similar vein, my fav way of describing sexual escalation comes from Gambler, which is basically: “Is what you’re doing with her something that you would do with a male friend? No? Then you’re creating sexual tension.” So it’s kind of a continuation of the “do with her the shit you wouldn’t do with your buddies” idea.

Are you talking about what she does for a living and if she comes there often? No sexual tension, you’d do that with male friends. Are you standing 2 feet away? No sexual tension, you’d do that with male friends. Is your hand on her lower back? Sexual tension, you wouldn’t touch your bro that way. Are you up close, staring into her eyes and down at her lips as she talks? Sexual tension, you wouldn’t do that to your bro.

Anyway, massive value-dump for y’all over here:

  • Anonymous
    on July 30, 2013 at 2:06 pm
    Original Link

    Great value. Are you Tyler himself?

    I see it’s great that you’re respecting the experience of 55 year old millionaires.

    But don’t tell me that a 55 year old alpha will have no sugar babies in his harem. “Leading with your money is wrong because she’ll leave you when you don’t have it anymore” is not something an alpha worries about when he knows the sugar babies, among his regular harem, need replacing every six months because they grow old so fast.

    You don’t have to love and be loved back by every hot girl in the harem.

    I previously had the idea you rejected richer older guys because you had such a thing against men dating outside the US. Now you seem to be saying you respect the millionaires who stick around (and pay lots of taxes). If you could only lose that nonsensical disrespect for the international men of mystery. ;)

    • YaReally
      on July 30, 2013 at 9:00 pm
      Original Link

      You’re not an international man of mystery. You’re a guy who buys hookers lol

      • Anonymous
        on July 31, 2013 at 3:47 am
        Original Link

        Sugar babies are not hookers and you can have them and non-mercenary marriageable girlfriends at the same time.

        You seem to be Tyler himself spending a lot of time here trying to earn money and get customers for RSD. Are times so tough?

        You are the same age and write the same way. He’s short and acts like he’s trying to compensate. You seem to have the same issues. At the least you’re an affiliate on commission for traffic from this blog and a few others.

        You should be disclosing your financial incentive to be here.

        And you are stuck in the false assumption that guys here aren’t better than you are at game.

        We don’t go hungry at night clubs cuz they won’t let us go back in if we eat.

        I do go out and collect a lot of numbers without going hungry. My regular girlfriend and 3 sugar babies really are hard to top, however, so I often don’t call for second dates. I don’t dump anyone though. I’ll still gladly listen to what Tyler has to say about kissing girls instead of getting their numbers. I tend to just get their numbers and go on traditional dates. I’m all ears for good advice but not the fake beginners pablum you keep repeating.

        You just wrote a long rant about how you admire Hugh Hefner who has been paying for sex since 1959. Obviously, you know the difference between sugar babies and hookers.

        You would also know that finding good sugar babies requires opening them and gaming them and, thus, doesn’t threaten the advice products you sell. So you don’t have to qualify your man love for Hefner by saying it’s because he’s over 80.

        Instead of reading faggy Paul Coelho books, why not read up on Hefner.

        Hugh Hefner has had sugar babies since the 1950s. Don’t try to lie and say that you’re giving him a pass now because he’s over 80. You would have given him a pass in 1959.

        Hookers have had more partners than your average night club chick. A good sugar baby has had none or much less than the girls you troll for in clubs.

        If you admire Hugh Hefner, you admire me. My girls are better looking however. Real breasts for starters.

        But then you’ll say you admire him for becoming a famous left winger. Well, you have me there.

        RSD isn’t threatened by men acting life Hefner did in his forties. They will still have to open women, possibly kissing them in night clubs like Tyler says he does, in order to recruit for themselves. They are still your market if you don’t get your panties in a bunch for no reason and try to insult them.

        Meanwhile, remember that you aren’t being threatened by the manosphere concept that some foreign countries are better to live in and date in. Expats could be your customers as well if you didn’t go out of your way to show that they make you feel insecure and hostile.

        • YaReally
          on July 31, 2013 at 5:24 pm
          Original Link


          “You should be disclosing your financial incentive to be here.”

          For the record and as I’ve said before, I’m not Tyler and I don’t work for RSD in any way. I recommend any product from any pickup company that will explain whatever I’m talking about or will help whoever I’m helping.

          Yes, surprise, surprise, some people just help other men because they want to help them fix their lives the way other men helped them fix their own, instead of for financial incentive or to get e-props. The PUA community was built on this concept of men helping eachother, before it got commercialized.

          RSD just puts out the most free content and Tyler is a freak of nature who’s able to break down and teach social dynamics in easy-to-understand videos. Other companies do a good job of rehashing already understood game concepts, but the RSD guys are pushing the limits and breaking new ground.

          And if you think there weren’t girls lined up to fuck Heff just for the chance to say they’ve fucked Heff (up till he became a wrinkly old raisin), then you haven’t been paying attention to this site. Maybe you’ve been too busy fucking hookers to pay attention lol

          Got a Day 2 with a 22yo super-feminine esthetics industry chick tonight. She’s cooking me breakfast in the morning. Total $ spent? $0. Because she likes me and I don’t have to pay her to pretend she does. Hooker-fucker. Lol

The Script

Original Link

via Rational Male

on July 30th, 2013 at 1:43 am
Original Link



The Script

Original Link

via Rational Male

on August 5th, 2013 at 4:12 am
Original Link

lolololol this made my night. Now I’m the rich boogeyman with a staff of thousands employing puppets to fake marriages and destroy the entire manosphere lol. This is awesome. You are my favorite hater ever and I hope you keep going with this so I can see what comes next. But I wish you wouldn’t waste Rollo’s comment space on it.

For the record, as I’ve said before:

1) I heart Rollo. I never talk smack about him. His blog and CH’s are my favorites and I like that Rollo focuses on a deeper overall long-term game discussing bigger over-arching concepts VS the more surface-level pickup stuff CH tends to focus on. But xsplat was an alcoholic hiring 3rd world prostitues and Roosh can’t get laid in North America because his game is too sloppy/weak to survive any kind of obstacles…he’s basically using Fool’s Mate as his primary game.

If Roosh worked on his game and tightened it up, instead of just making excuses and blaming external things for his lack of self-development, I would fully support him. I posted on xsplat’s blog trying to help him learn that you don’t need alcohol to be social and have fun because it was a crutch to him, but I think he deleted it or insulted me or something, I don’t really remember…or care lol. I call out guys who are full of shit when I see it and I have enough experience to spot it because I regularly meet hundreds of guys who are full of shit out in the field. I regularly give kudos to the guys who I can tell are legit.

2) I don’t recommend bootcamps or paying for any material. I was in the PUA community before it commercialized back when all the information was shared for free. There is more than enough free information out there for any guy to learn and excel at game through it and everything I link to or recommend is free except in extreme cases (like Blackdragon’s eBooks on mLTRs because that’s an obscure subject and he knows his shit and it’s cheap). I’m not affiliated with anyone and in fact I actually probably lose money when I spend time writing my comments to help guys because that’s time I could be spending working and earning money lol but the PUA community was started by men helping other men to all better ourselves and that’s the mindset I still believe in.

I only link to RSD videos a lot because they have literally hundreds of free videos on YouTube that cover almost every aspect of game and explain the concepts really well. I link to videos/articles from other companies as well…all I care about is whether the information is legit and helpful or not and I’ll always go out of my way to dig up free articles/videos over paid to recommend guys.

I will be more than happy to link to your extremely value-giving free videos, avd. Where are they? What’s that? You haven’t made any? Well you have in-field videos of you successfully doing cold-approach pickup like the RSD guys right? No? Well shit…I guess I’ll have to link to that evil asshole Tyler who actively encourages people to pirate RSD’s DVD products (anyone reading this, go download Foundations for external game and Blueprint for internal game, both are full of value and worth the watch).

3) Before you criticize me, ask yourself what value you’re bringing to the table and Manosphere. Are you bringing ANY?

On a completely unrelated note, and on the topic of this article, I for one am glad to see that Rollo is keeping up his skepticism on the whole thing till he has photo/video evidence. I have zero investment in the whole shit-show myself (tho I have my opinions on it), but I’m glad there’s SOMEONE calling for actual evidence and considering the possibility of a setup.

Also: the Hugo story just keeps getting better and better. It’s like Christmas has come early lol I’m dying for Jezebel to address it, but there’s no way they will.

on August 5th, 2013 at 4:17 am
Original Link

Also for anyone who doesn’t read CH and doesn’t know, if you click my name on my comments you’ll be taken to the YaReally archive that Lumpy put together. It’s fully searchable and really well made (entire conversation threads are saved so you can see the context of my comments) and grabs my posts from CH and here. In fact this very post will be in it…this is like Inception lol

Anyway, there are thousands of pages of free content from me there on all sorts of different game related subjects. Feel free to link to it if you have a blog, it’s the closest thing I’ll ever get to having an actual blog/site.

Left Behind

Original Link

via Rational Male

on July 30th, 2013 at 12:30 am
Original Link

With regards to the OP, from my archive:

““Oh wow you’ve only been with one guy? That’s really impressive, most girls have to sleep with a few guys before they figure out what they really like in be. You’re so lucky that the first guy you slept with is perfect in bed. Oh? It’s not perfect? Well I’m sure he’s trying, I mean you guys have role played right? No? Well he lets you have toys doesn’t he? Oh he’s jealous of those? Huh…I don’t know, I mean personally I think we should all explore our sexual sides before we commit to someone so that we know that person is the right one for us. I don’t mean you and I, I’m totally not the kind of guy you’d want to sleep with…you saw those other girls that i was kissing, I’m not the commitment type and you’d never hear from me again after tonight, even your friends wouldn’t know about us playing around you wouldn’t want to be stuck with a big secret like that.”

And then I fuck her. And she never tells you. And you continue to think your Madonna isn’t like “those whores” while I show the naked pics she sent me to my buddies.”

Find a cool chick, of whatever age/history, that you click with and have good chemistry in and out of the bedroom with, and then focus on always being the best you can be and growing as a man in general, so her Hypergamy sees you as the highest value man for her. Stuff like “if she’s had 4 cocks in her it makes pair-bonding chemicals less blah blah” is like a dress code for bars: it only applies to ugly low-value people.

Beta Male Move Of The Day

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 29, 2013 at 4:00 pm
Original Link

The epitome of cool…Playboy’s Penthouse 1959.

Check out the contrast between Hugh Hefner and Lenny Bruce.

Bruce in this seems try-had, nervous, approval-seeking.

“I was kind of rude, I was talking to those chicks and they kind of were floating around….there are some pretty chicks….”

Watch how Hef speaks slowly, deliberately.

They both seem a bit awkward perhaps because it’s a new medium, but the contrast between Hef and Bruce is.

  • YaReally
    on July 29, 2013 at 8:46 pm
    Original Link

    While he wasn’t a super flawless ultimate alpha male or anything, old-school Hefner WAS pretty alpha.

    Both in his body language (slow deliberate speaking, pausing before answering questions, keeping calm, cool and collected even against hostile interviewers/critics, lots of breaking rapport tonality and making statements instead of asking questions, approval-giving rather than approval-seeking, etc), and his inner-game, in sticking to his convictions and holding his frame against overwhelming social pressure. He had his set of beliefs on sex, equality, rights, how to run his magazine, etc. and he stuck to them no matter what shit-tests people threw at him.

    He’s also always had an excellent positive frame of loving women in general, not being judgemental about sexuality, enjoying women for what/who they are, etc. Contrast that to a lot of bitter “American women are all evil cunt bitches” manosphere guys and it’s not really a surprise why one type of guy was able to run an empire based around getting pussy while the other guy is writing angry bitter rants online. Sure, at 80+ Heff has to pay his girls, but 1) in his 30s-50s guaranteed he was getting shitloads of hot free pussy just based on his status, social-proof, high-value, etc, and 2) the MGTOWs and half the MRA/Manosphere advocates paying a foreign girl to stick around anyway so it’s not like they can judge lol

    Plus he gives a shit-load of value, throwing parties were other men can meet gorgeous women, doing charity work, all that shit. He wants everyone to have fun and enjoy life, rather than seeing it as a competition of who’s the most successful and being overly cut-throat and hostile to other men. As a result he’s respected and well-liked by other men of high-value…again contrast that with the stereotypical bitter Manosphere type who hates going out and hates being social and hates other men and sees everything as a battle and competition for who’s the best and who, in reality, only has a few close (usually also bitter) friends to go out with and doesn’t make new friends when he’s out because under the surface he loathes everyone and sees them all as pathetic compared to his superiority. Heff has the benevolent alpha vibe men should be aiming for.

    I recommend watching the “playboy, activist, rebel” documentary on him. He did a lot of cool stuff that I think a lot of people (especially his critics) don’t realize. Also his Girls Next Door reality show is a good watch because 1) titties lol, 2) you get an inside look at how Hef runs the mansion (curfews/rules, letting his girls have their fun time, how he expects them to behave when they make an appearance with him, his overall positive fun attitude toward the girls, how much they legit seek his approval, etc) and 3) you can piece together how he runs his harem, in terms of having a Primary girl, Secondary girls, and Randoms. I’ve written about this in more depth before, and a lot of how I do it comes from stuff I picked up on watching Heff’s show:

    Even now, while he’s slipped up here and there with the marriage and all (like I say he’s not a perfect ultimate alpha male), people make fun of him as a creepy old skeleton-man but he’s still living it up in a mansion full of hotter higher-quality chicks than any of his critics have ever stuck their dick in, throwing parties that tons of high-value people/celebs/etc are dying to go to, has tons of friends who love and care about him, and all with not a single fuck to give about whether anyone approves or not.

    I think Heff can say “top that, motherfuckers” without it coming across as cringe-worthy lol

  • Matthew King
    on July 30, 2013 at 12:27 pm
    Original Link

    Hefner is a half-faggot train-wreck of a man who enabled feminism to become preeminent, so long as he had his groovy turntables, silk pajamas, and choice scotch. His “epitome of cool” lifestyle is a fantasy fabrication designed to enthrall adolescents with all the class of Quagmire on Family Guy.

    I understand his appeal to the South Park generation, which must haphazardly strive to become men in this culture devoid of role models — like skinny hipsters who grow beards in compensation for their general femininity. But the results are in, and his goatish elderly desperation is the end-state of any masturbatory philosophy like his. It’s astonishing how little such blind idolators understand so basic a notion as cause and effect.

    Do nothing great, be nothing great, leave nothing great. Just an endless pursuit of the feelies. Teenagers might get wrapped up in those sensual goals; it’s understandable, since they’re encountering them for the first time.

    But which experienced man, after discovering the ease of acquiring such superficialities, dedicates his life to the circular attainment of the same thing over and over and over? Only the inexperienced man does, because he is not yet familiar with the ennui; or the experienced man does, who has no better option but to subject himself to the ennui, hoping for some undiscovered novelty, until his life is blessedly snuffed out.

    This is why “The Hef” now watches gay porn to get it up for a bedful of 19-year-old bunnies.


    • YaReally
      on July 30, 2013 at 12:33 pm
      Original Link

      He seems to be doing alright, but I’m sure your disapproval of him keeps him up at night.

      “Do nothing great, be nothing great, leave nothing great.”

      So what IS it that you’re leaving behind exactly? I’m sure I’m not the only one curious about what such a great wise badass man is doing with all his ennui. What are you doing to shape the future of the world and all that? It must be something amazing.

      • Anonymous
        on July 30, 2013 at 1:50 pm
        Original Link

        This is an interesting discussion and I’m in the middle of you two here.

        I have to say, first of all, that I’m pleasantly surprised that YaReally is showing respect for, and calling a man alpha who is paying sugar babies $4K per month each. Hef is being given a mulligan for being over 80.

        But who died and made the PUA coaches kings of who gets to decide at what age men can have sugar babies like that and still be “alpha”?

        The same type of teenager who has sex with a professional baseball player (and takes $100 for a taxi home) will take $100 from you for an extended massage because you met her on the street, established comfort and she likes you. Who is the alpha between you and the baseball player? Both of you exploited a typical late teen desire to sell herself to someone who offers value. Both of you got someone who is very low count. Both paid the same amount of money. Does it count against you because $100 means more to you than it does to the famous rich guy?

        How about a man paying $200 per month to (what were) virgin sugar babies at age 55?

        Does he get the same mulligan as Hef?

        Wouldn’t you think Hef has an easier time recruiting? Isn’t he selling possible fame, contacts and acting contracts and screen tests? Isn’t it tougher to recruit a virgin to take $200 per month and be loyal to a guy who isn’t famous?

        Why then, would you lionize Hef more than the normal guy in his fifties who gets a similar quality harem for much less money?

        And once you accept that, why bother having any problem with a 33 year old, like you, who augments his regular harem with some 18 year old college freshwomen who don’t want to date anyone but will come over and give him a massage for $50, which leads into her first sexual encounter ever? Then she becomes a slut and gives night club gamers sloppy twenty seconds so they can call themselves alpha. ;)

        I’m only busting your chops here because the regular game videos you link to are great material for learning key game skills every guy needs no matter what his wallet looks like.

        But, why bother making the unnecessary bullshit comment about foreign girls as if they are inferior lay material or are being exploited by us right wing manosphere types (the commie writer DH Lawrence saw exploiters as somehow impotent) or as if you can pull them away from their manosphere boyfriends because they’d find you more interesting?

        You’re clouded by the feminist mindset, YaReally, when you hate manosphere guys so much. Feminists like to spread the bullshit around that men who don’t prefer American women are losers. You may want to cut your hate for the manosphere and read enough not to have to keep making unnecessary digs on behalf of the fembot crowd.

        BTW, I read your long advice rant to a 38 year old youngster who didn’t have his act together. You are only 5 years younger so it was weird watching that. You were basically giving your own contemporary advice. Good for you on that.

        • YaReally
          on July 30, 2013 at 8:51 pm
          Original Link

          “Why then, would you lionize Hef more than the normal guy in his fifties who gets a similar quality harem for much less money?”

          Because Heff has created a fucking EMPIRE lol. The dude revolutionized how society looks at sexuality. You not having to court a girl thru her father and date 3 months before getting a kiss is because of him. He’s also 80+ and was getting free sex his entire life. Bill Gates paying for sex is not the same as Heff.

          A 55yo living in his sister’s basement who can’t keep a job buying cheap hookers doesn’t get the free pass Heff does.

          “why bother having any problem with a 33 year old, like you, who augments his regular harem with some 18 year old college freshwomen who don’t want to date anyone but will come over and give him a massage for $50, which leads into her first sexual encounter ever?”

          Because that’s pathetic. Like I get that you don’t understand that and you have to rationalize it all in your head, but you’re seriously advocating paying for sex which is just sad. If you have game you should still be able to lay 18-25yo poon in your 30s.

          You’re like the guy who’d go buy a baseball trophy and go “well who cares if I can’t play and had to buy this, I’m the same as the famous athlete that won one!!”

          “Feminists like to spread the bullshit around that men who don’t prefer American women are losers”

          I don’t care what Feminists say lol. Guys who have to pay for sex are losers. If you can’t win a Major League Baseball game on your skills, buying a trophy doesn’t make you a badass, it makes you pathetic.

          • YaReally
            on July 31, 2013 at 5:37 pm
            Original Link

            lol these rants are amazing. I would like you to work in accusing me of trying to bring dinosaurs back to life like Jurassic Park in your next strange conspiracy rant. plzthxkbi

on July 29, 2013 at 5:10 pm
Original Link

Okay I think CH needs to clarify; are we talking about kissing, or head nodding?

[CH: Nodding. Not kissing.]

  • YaReally
    on July 29, 2013 at 7:53 pm
    Original Link

    We’ve used pecking to mean leaning in since The Game so that’s probably part of the confusion for a lot of people:

    Plus the pecking = quick/light kiss thing.

    Need a different animal for this “overly enthusiastic nodding” lol. Bobble-head doll is a better description/image.

    I nod slowly now and then, occasionally with an “mmm.” to acknowledge that I’m listening but I had to practice that to break my original bad bobble-head body language habits. I’ve met people who go “uh-huh, yes, mmhmm, uh-huh” like every 2 seconds while other people talk, as they bobble-nod furiously…it’s always funny to me because they don’t realize they’re doing it as much as they are lol

B. Ess
on July 29, 2013 at 6:16 pm
Original Link

Even after looking trough the comments I cannot picture what this “pecking” looks like. Call me retarded. Whatever.

  • YaReally
    on July 29, 2013 at 8:50 pm
    Original Link

    Highly HIGHLY recommend watching Liam’s whole seminar that this is from (it’s on YouTube for free so it’s easy to find).

The Myth Of Effortful Game

Original Link

via Heartiste

Holden Caulfield
on July 26, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Original Link

From what I see on here, you can break down a lot of the commenters into:

a) actually goes out and engages socially
b) doesn’t go out, doesn’t engage socially, or both

The commenters in the b) category can’t conceptualize or apply the teachings here because they literally have no framework or experience (from being out socially) with which to identify with a fact or described situation that is under the heading of “game”. They refuse to learn the very social skills which would help them and have the benefit of socially skilled posters trying to help them. They flail and wail and bitch instead, while quality posters, like YaReally, are offering sound advice. Its too bad, because women love love love socially skilled charming males and as science and CH have pointed out, these behaviors can be learned.

  • ate the red pill.
    on July 26, 2013 at 3:06 pm
    Original Link

    I work in a very social setting (bartender). I get what you mean. A lot of these guys are socially inept. I see it every day… sad really, these bumbling beta pussies that think a line their dad taught them and a drink will get women to like them.

    I know it is a low-status, subservient job, but the service industry taught me so much about social interaction. A year of restaurant work is like 10 years of just going out to the bar. Social interaction is my life, and I still needed game to step it up to higher quality women.

    • YaReally
      on July 26, 2013 at 5:22 pm
      Original Link

      I highly recommend guys learning game and learning to break out of their introvert shell take a job in the service industry. Bartending is great, work in a clothing store, get a part-time job as a salesman in a mall…basically anything that forces you to interact with a lot of people.

      You’re just teaching your brain that it’s okay to talk to strangers and helping it learn to improvise conversations and building reference experiences for new social habits.

  • YaReally
    on July 26, 2013 at 5:18 pm
    Original Link

    Yep. Like I’ve said before, guys who go out and legit push their skills at this all come to the same general conclusions. If a guy disagrees with me (and by extension the rest of the PUA community), he’s just mentally masturbating theory because we would be the FIRST to tell everyone “go get 6-pack abs and become a millionaire” if that’s what was required to slay hot vag.

    Field experience is king and the backbone of the entire PUA community. A lot of guys who get into it now just see it as a commercialized industry with a mix of legit guys and scammers…but they don’t realize that there was a time (back when I got into it) where a bootcamp “fee” was “let Tyler crash on your couch” because we were all sharing this information for free with eachother as we unravelled and tested the main concepts.

    Like Tyler says in this video, if you posted “here’s an idea I think would work” everyone would make fun of you and tell you to go fucking try it. Try it 10 times, in a good mood and bad, on different types of girls. THEN you can share it and we’ll all go try it like that too.

    Always a fan of this vid:

    • avd
      on July 26, 2013 at 7:04 pm
      Original Link


      You don’t bring me flowers (RSD videos) anymore. What’s up? Your fans expect more.

      You’re the self-imposed boss of this community. We bow before you, but we expect more. Instead of telling us how to be a loser monkey dancing in social situations, why don’t you tell us how to bond a female to us so intensely that they want to—beg for—our seed to impregnate their eggs—not only to have our babies, but to raise them into children, as fathers, into men, and ultimately, people?

      Didn’t think so.

      Gentlemen, including my most favorite crush in the whole wide world, Immoral Gables, if you want a female to lust for your children, you must do more such that she longs for your progeny. YaReally isn’t teaching that to you, is he, little boys? YaReally teaches you how to sniff butt. You want to do that for the rest of your lives?

      There is nothing so sublime as having a female BEG you to bear her children, something YaReally can never teach you, because he’s never known the feeling.

      I support the male readers of the Chateau, but NOT the pussies of the Chateau… you scrubs can fuck off.

      Your loving admirer, avd

      • Pole
        on July 28, 2013 at 12:32 pm
        Original Link

        AVD: Yareally generally preaches “Cool, Confident, Fun” kind of game rather than the dark “the more women I manipulate the better” kind of game. I can see how through your tinted glasses going to clubs for any other reason than pulling pussy, interacting with other human beings without there being an ulterior motive other than for fun and actually enjoying yourself could be “pussy game”, but it’s a great alternative for people who lack the stomach for being a sociopath. Personally having as much sex with women as I can doesn’t take precedence over my morality or me living life how I want to live it, so I use his and RSD’s version of game over generally what Heatiste would say to do. That said, the information from blogs like this is invaluable in understanding how females really work and why what works works and what doesn’t doesn’t. Hate to involve myself in an internet argument but dissin’ someone because they use a different type a game.

        • avd
          on July 28, 2013 at 2:51 pm
          Original Link


          Check this out: I agree with everything you just wrote, except for your closing sentence: “dissin’ someone because they use a different type a game.”

          Of all the infinite characters in the MS, I dog on one only: YaReally. Why do I do that? Because of his extreme disrespect for all of us. Do you think I agree with all the commenters’ various styles of game, or even the proprietors? I don’t. Not at all. But I also feel no need to counter them on every point of disagreement. Why? Because they are men, sharing their life experiences with us in an open and honest way—something that is very difficult to come by in the non-internet world. Do I dog on Ya for his style? No, of course not. To each his own.

          I dog on little boy Ya because he is so disrespectful to the community. There are many men in this community who have been royally fucked by females (I’m not one of them, though I have friends who have suffered on that anvil.) When these damaged and broken men express their truths and realities in a most humble and open way in this community, I say a silent prayer for them, and respect them for sharing. I would NEVER, in a million fucking years, roll up on some hurting man’s comments in this community and slap him with an “lol,” as if I were better than him.

          We’re all on this trip, and it’s not always easy. I try to treat this community as sacrosanct—the only fucking place in the world where men can express themselves as men, without fear of female shaming tactics (lol). My comments are caustic to make a point, and that point is that perhaps in this one sacrosanct place in our lives, we should allow everyone free expression, sans the fictional need to AMOG one another.

          As was quite obvious in a recent Ya post-fest, he believes in the entire concept of the (for profit driven PUA community) concept of the AMOG. Well, he brings that worldview and attitude with him in every comment that he posts (and infects young/inexperienced men with it). But, whatever. I’m happy to let him share his worldview, SO LONG AS HE ALSO RESPECTS THE WORLDVIEW OF OTHERS, including men who are not as “advanced” as him.

          Pole, do you find that disagreeable?

          I believe that YaReally is exactly what he has presented himself as being, and I have attempted with generous patience to abide his expression. I could give a fuck what he teaches. The reason he raises my ire is because he disrespects the wide spectrum of men in this community… and actually that is a sure sign of insecurity. Note this, Pole: have you ever seen me dis anyone BUT Ya and his gay little followers? No, you haven’t. And why? Because I respect the very wide spectrum of life experiences that are expressed in the MS. I LEARN FROM THEIR SHARING. What Ya’s faux attempts at being the alpha boss of this community accomplish, is muzzling men from sharing their true life experiences… life experiences that we all learn from, even if we don’t share them. His social dynamic muzzling denies all of us from an open sharing. That matters.

          In fact, I’ll extend this olive branch to Ya right now. Ya, recant from your dissing of commenters in the MS, and you will never hear from me again. Post all of the RSD videos you want… it doesn’t bother me in the least.

          Reading some man’s honest expression of his life experience, followed by your inane lol attempt at framing yourself to be “alpha”, beneath this honest guy’s expression of his life… that fucking irks me. And I will hound you and expose your weaknesses until you grow the fuck up and allow everyone to work out their own path in their own sweet goddamned time.

          And this is for the proprietors, all of you: allowing Ya and his ilk to run roughshod over your communities has DIMINISHED the quality of the conversation. It has fostered a culture where young/inexperienced men feel entitled to come here and snipe, snark, bitch, moan and whine. This in no way serves any of us—even the little bitches themselves. They would be far better off led by commenters who express their arguments in the language of logic. Otherwise, they will go through life thinking that it’s ok as a man to express oneself via female language—shaming, framing, solipsism, strawmen, emotion (lol) and the like.

          Ok, time to wrap up. To Ya and his followers: pursue whatever path works for you; I honestly give not one single motherfucking shit. However, be respectful toward the community, and understand that YOUR way is not THE way. By adhering to this one little precept, you will never hear from me again… which should be ample incentive.

          • YaReally
            on July 30, 2013 at 12:35 am
            Original Link


            I left you a long in-depth reply over at Rational Male:


            I hope you’ll give my counter-points some deep thought and consideration. I look forward to making amends with you.

          • YaReally
            on July 30, 2013 at 11:49 am
            Original Link

            “When you decide to settle down, finally, you *will* face the same problems every married man has faced….she just gets older and more boring and sees you as the same.”

            That’s why I’m learning how to handle multiple-LTRs, open-LTRs, and harems (not the paid hooker kind Anonymous seems to love lol) and how to manage a relationship without marriage being involved, etc.

            I’m liking the Primary GF, Secondary Fuckbuddies/Mistresses, and Tertiary Randoms system so far (I’ve written about it in my archive). There are other PUAs experimenting with non-traditional relationships and avoiding marriage (while still having/raising kids, etc.). We’re attempting to find a solution using our own lives as guinea pigs instead of pissing & moaning about how unfair life is and how shitty our marriages are.

            We figured out pickup/seduction. We’ll figure out better long-term relationships and family arrangements too…even while you insult us lol

    • Anonymous
      on July 27, 2013 at 5:14 pm
      Original Link

      Congrats to Kate and Mark. I don’t know what she looks like but I was at a wedding last night where I met a 40 year old married 9 who looked better than her teenage daughters. I actually felt left out when the daughters wanted to dance with me all evening and competed with each other by texting me afterwards. I wanted the mother. Mark may have found another such exception to the rule in Kate. The genes of an older terrific woman will have long telemeres, making her more ideal to reproduce with than someone under 21 who may have genes that cause her and your potential daughters to hit the wall at 22.

      If a guy disagrees with me (and by extension the rest of the PUA community)

      Wow. Just wow. While you write a lot of good material here, that Freudian slip might explain, YaReally, why you also feel you can dogmatically write about things you wouldn’t know anything about, such as what it’s like to look middle aged and out of shape and still game women 20 years younger, how unfair it is for men to have to pay taxes, etc. ;)

      Because you tend to belong to the Purist Absolutist PUA faction, you’d go batshit if CH reposted such classics as “When it’s OK to Fib” and “It’s Not Necessarily Beta to Pay for Sex”. Your disagreement would apparently place him outside the mainstream of the PUA community.

      To be fair, we all know the PUA community is split along a dozen or more fault lines, including differing experience patterns between age groups, income groups, IQ ranges. For instance PUAs close to the average IQ are going to score more of the fat part of the bell curve because those with similar IQs attract each other, but these same men will lose with the high self-esteem high GPA college girls. Rules of the game, and especially the theories behind them, would end up differing slightly between these PUA factions.

      One big fault line among PUAs is the type of women various factions target such as virgins, bar sluts or still-beautiful and low-count red pill women like Kate. The Darkside goes for the virgins, the Lightside goes for the Kates and the seemingly pro-feminist PUA coach industry types teach men and convince themselves to go for the more “challenging” bar sluts.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Jizzabel writes an article soon embracing the fact that the PUA coach industry artificially raises the overall SMV (demand) for the more challenging, enlightened, entitled women in the American bar scene.

      Another fault line is the infamous conflict of interest between PUA coach types and those fellow PUA practitioners they see as potential male customers. CH wrote a great post about this. The way many see it, a coach will want to convince men that a man’s money is so unimportant to women in dating that he may as well give away all of his disposable income for coaching services. The potential coaching market would also be mass warned not to travel to any foreign countries or else the offending disposable income spenders will be called an epithet like “beta”.

      Cults do the same thing by saying “give us all your money because you won’t need it to establish your goal of being happy and satisfied”.

      This type of marketing is counterproductive for the coaching industry because the type of men who earn significant incomes, weren’t born yesterday when it comes to recognizing the above conflict of interest.

      Unfortunately, this marketing tactic is also in line with feminist ideology because it artificially raises the SMV (demand) for the carousel riding American women and, based on the myth the PUA coaches spread that using money or travel will fail to boost an alpha’s sex life above what an alpha will otherwise get, it helps feminists convince younger men to vote Democrat and be OK with spending 30% of their allegedly useless future incomes on taxes that bring about a wealth transfer to the same women they may want to seduce; without so much as a blow job in return.

      Older PUAs, who aren’t in the coaching industry, have a different POV and they’re just waiting for the Young Turks and their young clients to grow up or start paying taxes themselves, so they’ll realize the value of money and how smart men really don’t want an equal distribution of wealth between single men and women.

      • YaReally
        on July 30, 2013 at 1:08 am
        Original Link

        “Wow. Just wow. While you write a lot of good material here, that Freudian slip might explain, YaReally”

        There’s no Freudian slip there. I’ve spent a good chunk of my life involved in the PUA community, and I’ve studied more different styles of game than a lot of people realize even exist. I happen to have an extremely good memory, so I’m basically a walking encyclopedia of PUA information. The shit I talk about is backed up by shit-tons of experience by thousands of PUAs from the last 10+ years. I’m fully qualified to say that if you disagree with what I’m saying, then you’re disagreeing with the PUA community’s findings/experiences in general and you’re free to disagree, but you sure as fuck better bring some compelling evidence to the table beyond “trust me, when you’re MY age…” or “I think it’s all a scam” or “the same type of game won’t work on this type of girl”, because we have guys shitting all over those limiting beliefs daily.

        “why you also feel you can dogmatically write about things you wouldn’t know anything about, such as what it’s like to look middle aged and out of shape and still game women 20 years younger”

        I can write about this because the PUA community has a fuck-ton of middle aged out of shape men gaming women 20 years younger. I can link you to hundreds of thousands of Field Reports over the last 10 years if you feel like doing some light reading. Also if you ARE middle-aged and out of shape, get in shape and take care of your body/health and grooming. You should look like you give enough of a shit about yourself to take care of yourself, but you don’t have to be hot.

        Every bootcamp instructor in the world gets older guys attending and takes them out in the field to approach girls.

        “how unfair it is for men to have to pay taxes,”

        I’ve never commented on this.

        “Your disagreement would apparently place him outside the mainstream of the PUA community.”

        Yes. CH isn’t a part of the PUA community, and I don’t think he tries to be or cares, or even really considers himself a “PUA”. On PUA message boards, we aren’t linking Rollo, or RooshV and discussing their shit…not because their writing isn’t quality or anything, but because with anything related directly to picking up girls, we’re already light years ahead of the Manosphere.

        I’ve called out CH on his writing before, when it doesn’t gel with PUA knowledge, and in fact my first post in the Manosphere ever was on an article CH wrote about how BradP’s Horse Girl opener doesn’t work, where I explained how/why it does work, in the right context. CH has no problem with my writing, even when we disagree.

        This whole chunk of your post here:

        “For instance PUAs close to the average IQ are going to score more of the fat part of the bell curve because those with similar IQs attract each other, but these same men will lose with the high self-esteem high GPA college girls. Rules of the game, and especially the theories behind them, would end up differing slightly between these PUA factions.

        One big fault line among PUAs is the type of women various factions target such as virgins, bar sluts or still-beautiful and low-count red pill women like Kate. The Darkside goes for the virgins, the Lightside goes for the Kates and the seemingly pro-feminist PUA coach industry types teach men and convince themselves to go for the more “challenging” bar sluts.”

        This is all nonsense from a fantasy world inside your head. There’s no difference in the types of women. Hot intelligent low-count lawyer chicks in the daytime respond to game the same way ditzy bar sluts at night respond, when you’re good and congruent. I’m sorry if this shits on your reality, but you should base your reality around going out and gathering field experience instead of building silly theories in your head.

        The PUA coach industry convinces men to go for the girls they want, regardless of what type of girl that is, because all women respond to game so we don’t care what type you go after, as long as you’re going for it out of desire rather than scarcity and lack of skill.

        “the PUA coach industry artificially raises the overall SMV (demand) for the more challenging, enlightened, entitled women in the American bar scene.”

        Most bootcamps involve daygame as well as nightgame. And there are some coaches who run daygame bootcamps exclusively. You are just making retarded shit up.

        “Another fault line is the infamous conflict of interest between PUA coach types and those fellow PUA practitioners they see as potential male customers.”

        You are an idiot. There are hundreds of thousands of pages of free game related content out there to learn from. RSD puts up multiple free videos every week. There is a TON of free information out there. I specifically DON’T recommend bootcamps to people BECAUSE there’s so much free information out there that you can learn game on your own. A bootcamp can help you learn faster because a guy who’s experienced at game and teaching it can spot your sticking points easier because he’s seen and helped guys fix them a thousand times, but you don’t need to do it.

        You are like someone saying “personal fitness trainers just want you to think you need to lift weights to build muscle so that you’ll buy gym memberships! It’s all a scaaaaam!!” Like, no, you’re stupid. You can just go lift a heavy box if you want and you’ll get in shape. There’s no grand conspiracy here.

        You would know this if you went out. Because guys who go out and approach and bang a lot of women come to the same conclusions. Again, you’re just rattling off nonsense from your fantasy world in your head of how you assume things work, the same way feminists ramble about how they want Nice Guys and not assholes. That’s just not how it plays out in the real world.

        “based on the myth the PUA coaches spread that using money or travel will fail to boost an alpha’s sex life above what an alpha will otherwise get”

        Money and travel are both good, and they can afford you opportunities to MEET higher-quality women (ie – I’m not getting into the same parties Leonardo Dicaprio is partying at)…but they aren’t attractive in and of themselves, they aren’t necessary to attract women, and at the end of the day it will still come down to being one on one with the woman and whether you have enough game to seduce/bang her and keep her around.

        “Older PUAs, who aren’t in the coaching industry, have a different POV”

        Yes, they have the POV of guys who don’t go out. They have the POV of guys who’d rather piss & moan instead of fix their shit. They have the POV of this guy:

        Where they just make up excuses and rationalize away their problems. Here’s my reply to that guy:

        And here’s another guy, a 38yo divorcee with 2 kids responding about how he has none of the same problems the other guy has:

        Why? Because his inner game is tight and he’s not making excuses and living in a fantasy land where he’s a victim.

        “so they’ll realize the value of money and how smart men really don’t want an equal distribution of wealth between single men and women.”

        Who the fuck said anything about that? I have no idea what tangent you went off on toward the end of your rant lol.

      • YaReally
        on July 30, 2013 at 4:15 am
        Original Link


        “Cults do the same thing by saying “give us all your money because you won’t need it to establish your goal of being happy and satisfied”.”

        Ya man, look at this asshole Tyler trying to scam MORE money out of everyone. What a bastard, you’re right there’s totally a conspiracy to just make money off poor saps, Tyler practically says it flat out right here in his grand money-making scheme to charge you thousands of dollars for his products:

        Back in the day CAMERAS were too expensive and so the only way we could afford to RECORD videos was to do DVDs and sell them.

        These days cameras are CHEAP and we can give away everything for free.

        The only only only thing that irritates me a bit is when guys are like “Give away HOT SEAT” for free. It’s like FUCK OFF we give you every damned thing for free, I’d love to give away Hot Seat and someday in another 5 years when I can think of a way to keep RSD successful without Hot Seat I plan on doing so — like maybe when I have some new program of some sort. But for now until I see that lane open up for us there’s gotta be some sort of product in there somewhere, and HS is much better as a LIVE event regardless cause we can make it interactive.

        So as of now, yeah I want people to spend a bit of money, but do it on Hot Seat which is by far our best program anyway. Everything else just download it I don’t care at all — go watch Foundations and Blueprint, they’re GOOD!



        Go download Foundations and Blueprint and then tell me again what “Older PUAs, who aren’t in the coaching industry” have done to help men the way these evil horrible money-grubbing PUA coaches have.

        There was a time when the price of a bootcamp was “let Tyler sleep on your couch”.

        • Anonymous
          on July 30, 2013 at 6:09 am
          Original Link

          You can lookup the CH post on PUA Coach Hucksters, YaReally.

          I was talking about coaches going insane because they need to pay their own rent. But, if you want to say they go insane because they want to religiously proselytize their message, that’s even worse!

          There’s something gay about the idea that Tyler wanted to sleep on the coaches of other males.

          Religious proselytizers are almost always asperger’s victims. They can be right half the time and their words can be wise and useful, but they have to recognize where they are wrong half the time and keep an open mind while not fighting with all those who want to talk about the exceptions to the preacher’s rules. AVD just made a valid request to you about that and you sarcastically answered LOL as usual (which isn’t an AMOG or alpha move, it’s just weak).

          Your “enemy” Matthew King was a religious proselytizer when he first came on this board (Christianity instead of PUA Coach Fanatism), but he seems to have more quickly learned respect for his fellow commenters and, by respecting others, he has become one of the best commenters of all.

          AVD is only asking you to stop thinking you’re the only god here. Others here know as much or more as you do. Accept that.

          You spent your first year arguing with XSplat on this forum and didn’t learn anything from it. You probably thought you were cutting your teeth on dead wood. The only reason you may think you won your arguments with him (despite the fact that the blog host was impressed by the hotness of the harem concubines who cleaned his house and kept to a tight budget) was because of what Matthew King just wrote below, that CH will allow someone like you to spread a simplistic message for beginners and condemn advanced practitioners, because CH mistakenly thinks we should not confuse newbies here.

          Here’s some good advice

          1. Stop thinking that trying to AMOG other men works to win the respect of men toward your ideas. It doesn’t even work much to win the respect of women. If you recently wrote a comment promoting this tactic because it worked for you once or twice, you should take a course in statistics.

          Trying to AMOG other men makes it look like you’re insecure. And writing “LOL” compounds the impression that you are both insecure and full of hot air. Sarcasm doesn’t work that much either.

          2. Stop being an absolutist. PUA studies is not something dogmatic to religiously proselytize. There are many different strategies for getting hot women into bed, especially when guys like you want sluts and other guys want virgins.

          I could say “All women can be bought” and score a harem of sugar babies like XSplat as a result of my absolutism (and I have done this. Xsplat’s advice was golden). You can say the opposite, that “All women despise men who think they can buy them,” and you can BELIEVE that this is true because you’ve had sex with a few women who told you this about so-called betas who tried to buy them (if they succeeded and you fucked them as sloppy 22nds, then you were the beta.).

          (In fact, if any woman ever told you that she left a previous sexual relationship because “he thought he could buy me” you may not realize it but that’s the same as saying “he was a jerk”. Women love jerks, including those who succeed in buying them. If such jerks got there first, you are the beta in the equation, and no amount of “but they exploited her financial situation when she was young and needed to pay the rent” will change that. That only makes you look more like a beta feminist male).

          Regarding your absolutism expressed here so much, a smart guy would conclude that all women are not the same and different strategies work on different women. Farewell absolutism. Hello travel and trying out different venues and sub-cultures rather than staying, for instance, in the hip hop night club scene or trying to relive “A Night at the Roxy.”

          3. Remove the chip on your shoulder about wealth and power. You will be gray haired and middle aged in two short years. I’d advise you to start working on getting some wealth and power because game alone won’t cut it too much for you in 7 short years when you round forty (although lying about your age could win you 10 extra years).

          Admittedly I have know some homeless “Big Lebowski” types in their forties who could still tap the occasional college student while living on fumes.

          But they had to borrow my pad so they could fake it.

          When you can write an essay on how taxes are meant to keep men from expanding their harems, you’ll fit in better around here. The Marxist idea that men don’t need money in middle age, so it doesn’t matter if the State redistributes the wealth, is subversive.

          • YaReally
            on July 30, 2013 at 11:43 am
            Original Link


            lol, this is completely a waste of my time, but your rant was so surreal I had to reply:

            “I was talking about coaches going insane because they need to pay their own rent. But, if you want to say they go insane because they want to religiously proselytize their message, that’s even worse!”

            …what? Going insane? What are you even talking about?

            “AVD just made a valid request to you about that and you sarcastically answered LOL as usual (which isn’t an AMOG or alpha move, it’s just weak).”

            No, it’s me trying to get across to him that I don’t care about him or his weird obsession with my awesomeness lol

            “he has become one of the best commenters of all.”


            “AVD is only asking you to stop thinking you’re the only god here. Others here know as much or more as you do. Accept that.”

            There are guys here who know their shit. I give them props when I see it. Then there are guys who are full of shit that get mad when someone calls them out on it.

            “You spent your first year arguing with XSplat on this forum and didn’t learn anything from it.”

            lol. XSplat was an alcoholic who couldn’t have fun without the sauce, who had a “harem” of poor 3rd world hookers he paid to be around him.

            “The only reason you may think you won your arguments with him”

            I don’t care about winning arguments. I’m just spreading how shit works.

            “Stop thinking that trying to AMOG other men works to win the respect of men toward your ideas.”

            lol. Seriously man, I don’t care about your respect. You’re not important to me, in general. Like I don’t know how to get that message across to my haters. These rants are cute and everything, but I’m not trying to gain anyone’s respect or be a “god” of the community. I’m just here explaining game and helping guys who are looking for help. The whole “who’s the most respected” and “but what if CH disagrees with you” and “who won that argument” thing is silly drama. The only reason I acknowledge it at ALL is that you guys spout a bunch of incorrect nonsense and assumptions about PUA teachings and game in general, and I like to correct that for the guys reading this stuff so you don’t waste their time sending them off on retarded tangents away from information that would help them improve their lives and understanding of women/social-dynamics.

            “If you recently wrote a comment promoting this tactic because it worked for you once or twice”

            I can pretty much guarantee I’ve spend more time socializing and applying these “tactics” than you, AVD, and Matt King combined. And that’s not counting the hundreds of thousands of PUA Field Reports from the last ten years that corroborate the success of certain tactics.

            It’s not my fault that you’re too lazy to go out or to read Field Reports and choose to believe the data isn’t out there.

            “Trying to AMOG other men makes it look like you’re insecure. And writing “LOL” compounds the impression that you are both insecure and full of hot air.”

            lol. I just don’t care, man. You’re not who my posts are for.

            “Stop being an absolutist.”

            Never. lol.

            “There are many different strategies for getting hot women into bed, especially when guys like you want sluts and other guys want virgins.”

            Game works on both sluts and virgins. Attraction is attraction.

            “I could say “All women can be bought” and score a harem of sugar babies like XSplat as a result of my absolutism (and I have done this. Xsplat’s advice was golden).”

            lol. Are you seriously bragging about buying hookers? Way to go, do tell me your secrets. Do I need to fold the dollar bills lengthwise like at the strip-club when I pay them to pretend they like me?

            “You can say the opposite, that “All women despise men who think they can buy them,””

            I COULD say that…but I’ve NEVER said that, so I don’t know what tangent you’re going off on here. Are you just so blind with rage that you’re swinging blind? lol

            “In fact, if any woman ever told you that she left a previous sexual relationship because “he thought he could buy me” you may not realize it but that’s the same as saying “he was a jerk”.”

            uhhh…what? No woman has ever told me she’s left a sexual relationship because “he thought he could buy me” lol. But then I don’t hang out with hookers like you seem to so maybe that scene is different…?

            “Women love jerks, including those who succeed in buying them.”

            lol…”succeed”. brb, I have to go succeed at taking a dump. Then I’m going to succeed at breathing air.

            “If such jerks got there first, you are the beta in the equation, and no amount of “but they exploited her financial situation when she was young and needed to pay the rent” will change that. That only makes you look more like a beta feminist male”

            uhhh, okay? lol…I think what I like about my haters is that they say such random things. I can’t even look away from this, I’m so curious where you’ll take it next. You make me miss Matt King because he can at least form coherent thoughts.

            “a smart guy would conclude that all women are not the same and different strategies work on different women.”

            Just to see if I’m getting your point right…does this whole “YaReally hates other strategies thing” you’ve built up in your head involve the two strategies being “learn to be attractive and pick women up” versus “pay for hookers”? Like, is buying hookers a strategy to you?

            “Hello travel and trying out different venues and sub-cultures rather than staying”

            Oh I game in all sorts of venues. I’ve picked up in malls, festivals, on the street, etc. And I’ve travelled, tho I plan to do some more in the future. I just focus on nightclub game right now because it’s convenient for me (I work during the week, and the women are done-up at their hottest at nightclubs, plus I like the challenge of all the chaos).

            “Temove the chip on your shoulder about wealth and power.”

            There’s no chip. If you have it, awesome. It won’t get you laid if you don’t have any game (unless you’re buying hookers), but good on you for achieving it. Just don’t slack off on learning game and going out and socializing and picking up chicks to earn more money or another percent less body-fat because it’s not going to automatically get you the girl.

            “You will be gray haired and middle aged in two short years.”

            nah, I’ve got a few more years before the gray hair sets in.

            “I’d advise you to start working on getting some wealth and power”

            Thanks, tips. I’m working on it, though replying to your weird rants is cutting into my work time. lol

            “because game alone won’t cut it too much for you in 7 short years when you round forty”

            I’ve got plenty of time.

            “(although lying about your age could win you 10 extra years).”

            lol, I don’t lie to girls. But I don’t pay for hookers either, so…

            “When you can write an essay on how taxes are meant to keep men from expanding their harems”

            lol what is with you and taxes? I’ve never talked about taxes. So fucking weird, I love it.

            “you’ll fit in better around here.”

            I think I’m doing alright. The only guys who hate me are the guys who are butt-hurt that I’m calling out their lack of Field Experience or shitty skill-set.

            “The Marxist idea that men don’t need money in middle age, so it doesn’t matter if the State redistributes the wealth, is subversive.”

            oooookay…? When was I talking about the state redistributing wealth again? Do you have me confused with someone else on the Internet that you’re angry with? lol.


          • YaReally
            on July 30, 2013 at 8:56 pm
            Original Link

            So yes, you ARE advocating buying hookers as game. Lol. Amazing.

            You can fancy it up with cutesy terms like sugar-babies…hell you can call them super dinosaur robot bananas if you want. But you’re still buying hookers.

on July 26, 2013 at 3:12 pm
Original Link

Great article and great points.

To defend Zombie Shane, I will say he might be saying if a woman doesn’t put out immediately (and some won’t, depending on the night, time in her cycle, etc) and that’s what you want, then move on to one that will. There is always one at the bar that is so horny she will put up far fewer mind games, at least of the cock-blocking variety, than others. However, it should never be “effort” to deal with any woman. That is the issue here.

Making it effortless is like Tiger Woods is with golf. He just does it. He walks up and does it. It doesn’t always work out perfectly, but it’s not effort. I walk up to most holes and it is work – every time. For him, it is what he does.

I chose the imagery of holes on purpose…pun intended. Women will play mind games, but someone with game in his core is just going to do what he does. A woman acts like a bitch at a club, or her friend cock blocks you…you just do what you do. You stay confident and charming, and stop interacting with them, when you feel like stopping. You move on to the next woman when you feel like it. It’s not “effort” even if one night you don’t get any action. It’s just what you do. It’s not a rejection, just part of what you do.

You have a girl you text on the side who isn’t biting for some reason??? You just do what you do. you text her when you feel like it, maybe to make a snide comment, or you respond to her half the time, if and when you feel like it. Eventually you will likely get laid because you are doing things right, but if not, she’s just some woman (among many) you text occasionally to have some fun with. If you want laid immediately, you have options, so just text the ones you know that are good for an immediate lay and deal with them.

A lot of this boils down to perspective as immoralgables mentioned above. Let’s say you got a number at a club, and made out, and she suddenly becomes regretful and won’t text back even if you do the right things. Then you just continue doing the right things. It only becomes “effort” if her and her mind games are not in the proper perspective. The beta goes crazy waiting for the next text and wondering what he did, etc. The alpha treats her no different than the other women he texts. She is just another woman, maybe with more walls than the dependable slut he can fuck anytime, but it is not “effort” to deal with her.

  • YaReally
    on July 26, 2013 at 5:22 pm
    Original Link

    This. Well said.

on July 26, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Original Link

Curious how you’d characterize Mr Brand’s performance here:

  • YaReally
    on July 26, 2013 at 5:31 pm
    Original Link

    This is what a really good PUA looks like…like what we call “state”. I’ve hit this level a few times where you just completely dominate a room like a rockstar. It’s not something I can do consistently, but every once in a while I’ll have a night where shit aligns and I’m on fire like this and take over the bar, completely unstoppable. This is like, game distilled into its purest form.

    It’s why when women are like “oh I’d know if a PUA ran game on me, I met this creepy guy once who asked for a female opinion and I could tell right away! And any guy who dared neg or tease me, I’d kick him in the balls and call him a loser!” It’s like no, no you wouldn’t. You would be HELPLESS to resist. And the “cool” James Bond guys posted up at the bar trying to look cool would be invisible to the women in the room.

    This YouTube comment describes it perfectly lol: “He convinced all of them to have sex with him. ALL. Of. Them.”

on July 26, 2013 at 5:27 pm
Original Link

Have fun enjoying the female coaches go at each others throats towards the end.

  • YaReally
    on July 26, 2013 at 6:02 pm
    Original Link

    lol’ed at this.

    “Fein: If you’re in a friend zone, find out what books she likes, what movies she likes, what turns her on.

    Lyons: No, that would push the friend zone further and make them more comfortable.

    Fein: No, women feel with their head. I had a guy that knew my favorite book was Gone With the Wind and he read it, and that made me fall madly in love with him.

    Lyons: What I’m saying is that only works if the woman is attracted to the guy already.

    Fein: No, no, I really wasn’t and then he read Gone With the Wind and I was like, “Oh my god!” I felt like Scarlett and he was Rhett. This was me in college.”

    Insert the male PUAs rolling their eyes. I can pretty much guarantee the PUAs went into this interview with 100% complete disregard for anything the women had to say. We all learned way back in the day that 99.99999% women are just incapable of comprehending this stuff. Any female coach is pretty much a PR stunt to try to get a more mainstream audience in. Some women are capable of understanding big chunks of it or certain concepts but it’s just a complete waste of time to bounce anything off them.

    The PUA community was a massive sausage-fest before it got more mainstream…but that’s why we were productive and got shit done. We didn’t waste time debating with silly solipsistic girls who give contradictory advice to the hundreds of thousands of experiences we were using as data.

    Also notice that the men all basically agree with eachother and are giving the same advice in general. But the women give contradictory advice from eachother and sometimes the men. Why? Because the men had to legit solve this shit and distill it down into consistent concepts that work for all men…the girls are just looking at it thru their own personal lens but people have praised them and built up their “I’m the next millionaire matchmaker!!” egos based on nothing but the “girls can be the best at anything” grrrrl power motto.

    You can tell Lyons is like “stfu, woman” in the interview lol thanks for the link it was an unintentionally funny read.

on July 28, 2013 at 2:18 am
Original Link

The most effortless type of game relies on preselection which is heavily reliant on being (or at least being perceived as being) “higher value” or of enough value to the female and having the “Game-Fu” knowledge and experience to deal with the female’s inevitable “Chick Jitsu”.
Then all you really need to do is not fuck it up.

Did Commenter Kate Meet Her Fiancé At Chateau Heartiste?

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 26, 2013 at 1:18 pm
Original Link

jesus…am I still drunk from last night?? lol

  • Jesus
    on July 26, 2013 at 1:27 pm
    Original Link

    Yes, son.

    • YaReally
      on July 26, 2013 at 1:39 pm
      Original Link

      lol. Tell your dad I apologize in advance for the girl shouting his name tonight.

Babe Freeze

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 25, 2013 at 2:12 pm
Original Link

I agree 100%. Silence and a knowing look is better than stumbling out something awkward and reactive.

On introverts:

“far from being a necessary punishment, socializing can actually lift the moods of you introverts.”

One of my fav quotes on this is from Mystery: “A guy asked me “how do I get into a good state for going to a party?” and I told him “the point of a party is to PUT YOU in a good state.”"

Tyler talks about this a lot too…clubs are supposed to be fun and relax your stress from working all week and pump you full of good emotions. They’re not designed to intimidate you (except some high-end exclusive places lol)…they’re designed to be a big playground of FUN. When you walk into a club and you’re out of state, let the club do what it’s DESIGNED to do and let it take over, get sucked into the vibe and the energy and use THAT to fuel your experiments in extroversion:

Socializing should be FUN, not work. If it feels like work to you, that outlook/mentality is the first thing you should focus on fixing before worrying about how to get a phone number or when to neg:

Dealing With Cutesy Chicks

Original Link

via Heartiste

Zombie Shane
on July 24, 2013 at 2:28 pm
Original Link

Honestly, I don’t know that these “mindgame” chicks are worth the effort.

[CH: There really isn't any effort expended once you get the hang of it. It's pretty much all upside to watch a girl's face brighten with newfound desire because you successfully pulled her limbic strings.]

Unless maybe you’ve gone full-blown nihilist and you’re determined to tap EVERY SINGLE god-damned piece of ass which crosses your path – bar none.

[Or maybe you just want to get better when you talk to girls, even if the total number of girls is low.]

But, again, in all honestly, I can think of a bazillion things I’d rather do than waste any calories pursuing a “mindgame” chick.

[Marathoners waste calories, but they still run, because they do it for the fun of it.]

Life is just too damned short.

[ blow prospects because of bad game.]

  • Lily
    on July 24, 2013 at 2:58 pm
    Original Link

    “Honestly, I don’t know that these “mindgame” chicks are worth the effort.”

    Those chicks are the most fun, and they’re good at flirting. If a girl is flirting with you, it means there is an open door or window for you. If you don’t like mid games you’re a bore, or probably don’t have good game. More confident men play along and end up getting what they want.

    “But, again, in all honestly, I can think of a bazillion things I’d rather do than waste any calories pursuing a “mindgame” chick.”

    You sound old and tired. You need to revamp. Must be that Frankenstein school wearing you out :D

    Anyway, this “babe” and “honey” stuff aren’t examples of mindgaming. A woman says it to a man she isn’t really interested in and feels comfortable around like a buddy (he’s not giving her gina and psyche tingles).

    Thus, I think reason 2 is right: She loves to flirt and she has a way about her. Yes, a way of interacting with men even if she isn’t attracted to them. However, she has no intentions of letting that guy pursue her seriously. So, don’t read too much into the “babe” and “honey” lingo, unless she sends other unmistakable signals.

    • bob
      on July 24, 2013 at 3:20 pm
      Original Link

      ” If you don’t like mid games you’re a bore, or probably don’t have good game. More confident men play along and end up getting what they want. ”

      Or, they give their attention to the cute girls who just don’t play mind games.

      But the real question here is: can a girl NOT play mind games? Is it only a matter of degrees in the mind game?

      • Zombie Shane
        on July 24, 2013 at 5:13 pm
        Original Link

        Look, maybe there’s a problem with here semantics.

        Or a difference of degree – a really big difference.

        When I saw the word “mindgame”, I was thinking of some chicks I’ve known who were simply “off”.

        Like a really badly “off”.

        Such a chick would be all goo-goo gah-gah friendly and flirty and sexy and seductive with you, but as soon as you started to move in for the, ah, “kill”, you’d suddenly realize that there was some giant gaping inhuman hole in her personality, where warmth and empathy and kindness simply didn’t exist – and that those big saucer eyes which had been staring at you so long, without blinking, were in fact the eyes of something reptilian.

        Or, as the kid said on Longmire the other night, “Shark Eyes”:

        Actually, I could see that bride-from-hell in the wedding thread possibly fitting the bill – a bitch who would lead you on and tease your dick and strangle up some blue balls in you and then when you leaned in for nothing more than a little friendly tongue action, she’d suddenly yank her head back and frown at you and step back as though she didn’t even know who the hell you were:

        Witches like that send a chill down my spine.

        Very much “steer a wide berth” and “DNFW”.

        But, again, if you guys are just talking about a sassy whore with a bad attitude who needs a good spanking, then I apologize for the misunderstanding.

        • Matthew King
          on July 25, 2013 at 9:04 am
          Original Link

          Women play no “mind games” worthy of the name. That is our turf. Their methods are standard and predictable and neutralized by a series of easily adopted techniques, otherwise known as “game.”

          A woman does not use her mind during the intersexual exchange, and if she does, she is in serious trouble: that means she is relying on turning one of her chief vulnerabilities into a strength. There is not ever an instance when a woman attempts to trick a man of any experience that he does not immediately recognize and manipulate the attempt to his own advantage — which she loves and tingles to and moistens for (cf. Lily above). They are kindergarteners attempting to outwit wizened gurus. What makes it “cutesy” is the transparency of their intentions despite their goofily innocent execution.

          Either that, or you are lowering yourself to the level of your competition, giving away the man’s chief advantage in flirting. And for what? To be more sporting?

          No, women have other qualities with which they mindlessly manipulate men.


          • YaReally
            on July 25, 2013 at 2:53 pm
            Original Link

            Good god, this is the worst flirting I have ever read lol I can’t look away, it’s like a trainwreck I just have to keep reading…I wish my brain was smart enough to keep up lolololz

    • YaReally
      on July 24, 2013 at 9:44 pm
      Original Link

      “If you don’t like mid games you’re a bore, or probably don’t have good game. More confident men play along and end up getting what they want.”

      This. These are usually the hottest and flirtiest girls. Ya, they play games, but:

      “[CH: There really isn't any effort expended once you get the hang of it. It's pretty much all upside to watch a girl's face brighten with newfound desire because you successfully pulled her limbic strings.]”

      This. These chicks steamrolled over me and frustrated me when I started out. Now I’m always 10 flirty steps ahead of them and they’re mind-blown by that because it’s rare to run into, especially from (by society’s standards) an average guy. You can learn to handle this stuff and then like CH says, it’s no effort expended.

      But ya, the “babe” and “honey” stuff is usually a signal that she’s good at push/pull and she knows how to string guys along, has a ton of orbiters, etc. She’ll make you think you have a chance, then flake, then sweet talk you, then do it all over again.

      The catch is that, like I say, they’re usually the hottest ones. Also, oddly enough, despite the flirty impression they give off I’ve found that they tend not to sleep with a ton of guys. Usually they have a regular (an ex or whatever, usually who treated them like shit and doesn’t orbit them) but most guys they meet get wrapped around their little finger so they lose attraction for them (those guys are failing their shit-test basically by eagerly jumping at the “honey” stuff) and won’t bang them (Hypergamy won’t let them) and just put them in the Orbiter category and use them for free shit and rides and dates and vacations and shit.

      I have one right now that I’m experimenting creating massive drama with. Really hardcore push/pull, starting full out “no fuck YOU” fights, pretending to be pissed off, going from massive attention to flat-out ignoring her, etc. It seems to be making progress, but I know going in that this’ll be a long slow game to get her to actually meet up and bang so I’m not investing much energy into it. Figure it could be a solid month to go still. But it’ll happen eventually, because I’m awesome. lol

      • Zombie Shane
        on July 24, 2013 at 11:04 pm
        Original Link

        > “I have one right now that I’m experimenting creating massive drama with. Really hardcore push/pull, starting full out “no fuck YOU” fights, pretending to be pissed off, going from massive attention to flat-out ignoring her, etc.”

        Like I said above, I don’t give a damn if the bitch is a Jayne Mansfield or a Raquel Welch or a Monica Belluci in their primes – I got better things to do with my life than play games.

        Either show me the damned pussy, or get the hell outta my way so that I can find me a chick who will.

        • Hugh G. Rection
          on July 25, 2013 at 12:12 am
          Original Link

          Some enjoy the chase.

          • YaReally
            on July 25, 2013 at 8:57 am
            Original Link


            5,000 words not needed:

            Intent + outcome dependence = Orbiter

            Intent + freedom from outcome = The Chase

            It’s really not as complicated as you imagine it. You’re just demonizing it because you’ve invested in a “hopeless romantic” type Identity. Which is fine if you’re happy. Some people just play touch football with their buddies instead of shooting for the NFL.

            Ultimately though, your choice of options is limited. That’s not a judgement of you as a person anymore than saying entering a store with $5 means your purchasing options are more limited than the guy entering with $50.

            Again if that doesn’t bother you, cool, best of luck. Some of us aren’t content with what we’re handed.

          • YaReally
            on July 25, 2013 at 1:25 pm
            Original Link


            Basically, yes. The same way buying a drink (intent, both guys are showing interest, they aren’t buying a homeless crackhead a drink) when you’re a beta (outcome dependent, I hope she likes me omg maybe if I buy her a drink she’ll have to talk to me and I can get some validation) has a different outcome than when an alpha (I feel like buying a drink, who gives a shit whether it makes her like me or not, I can bang any girl in this place and have 10 on the go txting me for sex as it is) does the exact same thing.

            Your internal frame of outcome dependence/independence changes all your actions/responses and your sub-communications which has a trickle-down effect to the girl because girls base how to feel off their environment and the stronger frame around them.

            So essentially yes, what you think in your head IS the difference between being an Orbiter and a Seducer.

            Now being a Keyboard Jockey on the other hand…well, I’ll let you fill us in on your area of expertise with that one.

        • YaReally
          on July 25, 2013 at 1:40 am
          Original Link

          Sure, that’s a method of approaching it. But it means you’re going to end up with a lot of average chicks. Which is fine…not everyone wants to climb Mount Everest. As long as you’re happy, you do your thing.

          But you’re not sticking your dick in this:

          …without playing a few games. And when you’re confident, socially savvy, and flirty, that’s all it is: a silly little game. Nothing to stress over or get all “I don’t care what that bitch looks like, don’t waste my life show me the damned pussy grrrrrr!!!!!!!” about lol

          Incidentally that girl and I now have a Day 2 lined up for next week. The games are too much for me for anything long-term, but I’ll probably make her a fuckbuddy.

          • YaReally
            on July 25, 2013 at 1:13 pm
            Original Link

            so much lol

            As I was googling for a pic to link, I thought to myself “self, why are you including a pic? You know the 2/10 pointy elbowers are just going to come out of the woodwork.”

            3 things:

            1) these chicks represent girls who’s job it is to sell sex. They have hundreds of guys a night trying to bang them and failing, blowing hundreds if not thousands on them just for their attention and the remote chance of sticking their dick in them, and they’re socialized, flirty, and surrounded by better looking and richer men than you’ll ever be. Now whether you like brunettes or girls wearing sweater-vests or getting 14yo girls preggers (dude, wtf was your creepy-ass reply about?), doesn’t really matter. The point is that these types of girls represent the types that you will never get near or be able to land in real life.

            2) it’s a random google image of random women, to make a point about how some of us are going for girls who don’t look as average or live in the same average world the completely average “10/10″ coffee shop girl (that you can see HUNDREDS of in any average bar on any given night). I’m not trying to link you your jack-off material for the evening lol

            3) the 3 people responding are a strange expat pedophile, Matthew King the eBadass, and a girl who thinks it’s easy to fuck hired guns because she’s a dude who’s banged a bunch of them and they obviously suck a bunch of cock in the bathroom on their breaks from work.

            Like I say, so much lol

          • YaReally
            on July 25, 2013 at 9:03 pm
            Original Link


            Your rants are surreal and amazing lol I don’t even have a response because there’s so much randomness packed into one comment. Please keep posting lol

on July 24, 2013 at 2:37 pm
Original Link

Cute bartenders & waitresses do this all the time, of course, and they’re ALL super flirts. It’s an easy way to build comfort with the customer (attraction is already there) and thereby increase tips. Also helpful since they don’t have to be as good at remembering names if you’re not a regular.

On the other hand, in the South, for example, this kind of thing is pretty routine. The old lady behind the counter at the diner calls everyone “sugar” or something like that. At some point, it’s just an automatic thing to say.

  • Mark
    on July 25, 2013 at 10:28 am
    Original Link

    Strippers also use “babe” and “honey” all the time, probably for the same reason. It builds rapport with the customer and she doesn’t have to remember names. Successful strippers are masters of using fake indicators of interest on guys they are trying to get money out of.

    • YaReally
      on July 25, 2013 at 1:38 pm
      Original Link

      “Strippers also use “babe” and “honey” all the time, probably for the same reason. It builds rapport with the customer and she doesn’t have to remember names.”

      These are the reasons I call all girls “babe” lol. Unless they earn a unique nickname, but usually I stick with babe (said in a very casual tone, like I’ve known her for years, VS a douchey try-hard tone).

      Treating a girl you’ve just met as if she was your girlfriend of 5 years has an interesting effect…”what you feel, she feels” and all. The downside is it encourages relationshippy behavior/ideas/expectations on her end so I calibrate using it to the girl’s personality and what my end-goal is.

      I’ve banged girls (one night stands and multiple bangs over a few months) without actually knowing (or in some cases even asking) their name lol. It’s really not that important.

on July 24, 2013 at 2:44 pm
Original Link

Muffinpants, you hit the nail on the head with this one.

  • CH
    on July 24, 2013 at 2:48 pm
    Original Link

    That’s studmuffinpants to you.

    • YaReally
      on July 25, 2013 at 1:40 pm
      Original Link

      I always think your profile pic is a badly MS-Paint drawn Batman logo at first glance lol

on July 24, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Original Link

I will just leave this here:

Direct link to video:

  • Matthew King
    on July 25, 2013 at 10:14 am
    Original Link

    The universal response:

    In contrast, the car-riding hubby was pussy for stoking the panic attack like a dickhead little brother (and a complete child for posting it to the world) rather than being the calming influence in the relationship. As Connery all but says, a single slap is the most potent medicine. It jolts her back to center, rather than spinning off like a top into outer space.

    It’s obvious that what started as mental anguish became physical in the young wife, and anyone who hasn’t encountered and learned to pivot that brand of hysterics into something healthy is a man of little experience and skill.


    • YaReally
      on July 25, 2013 at 1:46 pm
      Original Link

      “In contrast, the car-riding hubby was pussy for stoking the panic attack like a dickhead little brother (and a complete child for posting it to the world) rather than being the calming influence in the relationship. As Connery all but says, a single slap is the most potent medicine. It jolts her back to center, rather than spinning off like a top into outer space.”

      This. This is the oak tree squirrel thing. Learning to deal with stuff like this forges you into the kind of guy who goes “Shhhht.” and gives her “the look” and shuts her up because your frame of “No. This isn’t happening.” is stronger than hers.

      This guy got sucked into her drama. He let her set the frame and then while he didn’t try to appease her by taking her to the lake, the fact that he was even reacting to it and taking jabs and stoking the fire is all him being sucked into her frame of “drama is happening”.

      And because she’s been taught by his actions that “this is how to get attention and get what I want and get my emotional rollercoaster”, that’s how she acts and over time it escalates.

      Dog Whisperer teaches all this shit. Lol

Max from aust
on July 24, 2013 at 6:37 pm
Original Link

This happens to me regularly. Lately I have been instantly esculating kino and attempting a k close so she knows I am after her. If she blocks walk away like a gentleman. Next

  • YaReally
    on July 25, 2013 at 1:51 pm
    Original Link

    You’re not Next’ing them, they’re Next’ing YOU.

    Do the same thing you’re doing now, going for the kiss early, but learn how to calibrate and if she isn’t receptive, pull back, smooth it over, build more comfort/rapport, spike her attraction again, and then try going for the kiss again. Rinse, repeat until you get the kiss and are able to turn their initial rejections around faster and more efficiently and eventually not get the rejections at all.

    You’re just playing a numbers game if you walk away when she snubs you. Push for 5 snubs before you walk away lol

Marky Mark
on July 24, 2013 at 9:14 pm
Original Link


Wouldn’t you say that once a girl starts the mindgames she already considers you inferior? Or do girls also play mindgames with betas?

  • Scray
    on July 25, 2013 at 3:20 am
    Original Link

    Best to think of it as a shit test. A shit test that the woman is always and forever deploying on every man who crosses her path.

    • YaReally
      on July 25, 2013 at 5:12 am
      Original Link


      Basically the hotter she is, the more she needs to know that she can’t control you and that you are congruent to not giving a fuck about her silly tests. Because she can break 99.9% of the men in the world, if she’s hot enough…she can wrap them around her little finger. And if a silly little GIRL can wrap these guys around her finger, how the fuck are they supposed to handle the world for the two of them if he can’t even stand up to a girl?

      So when she meets the one guy she CAN’T control, that tells her this is a guy who can take on the world. But anyone can fake it once or twice…she needs to keep testing him to make sure that he’s that man.

      So in a way, whether her calling you “honey” means she’s into you or friend-zoned you, is irrelevant. It’s all a green light.

      The biggest mistake men make is thinking that their value remains where it was when they met the girl. Like they passed a few tests and now they’re “done”…but your value will fluctuate for the rest of your life. And if it gets low enough, her Hypergamy and opportunity will ensure she cheats on you.

      So build a strong foundation and don’t slack off. Don’t become the beer-belly couch potato “yes, dear… :( ” beta loser failing her tests will turn you into. Grow more solid as a man every day, and look at these tests as an opportunity to grow a stronger frame. Down the road if you meet a girl who doesn’t test as much, you will be that much more solid to her. You are the oak tree, she’s the little squirrel scurrying about.

Study: Dominance, Not Looks, Predicts Men’s Mating Success

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm
Original Link

Ok, so I’ve been a beta male for my entire life, taught from an early age (and religion) that I need to be the “nice guy” to get a woman and that women that don’t want a nice guy are usually psycho, and have massive self-esteem issues – and, should be avoided at all costs.

Experience is teaching me differently. While it’s true that women that are attracted to the “dark triad” are usually pretty messed up themselves and would make horrible long-term mates, even most regular women tend to want dominant personalities and some alpha traits. I’ve noticed the most reasonable women in good relationships will tolerate some beta-ness every now and then, but if it’s long-term then the gal is gone.

Alright, so I get it now. The problem is, at nearly forty years old, HOW DO I CHANGE? Make a post on that. Do I seek a behavorial therapist who specializes in teaching how to gain alpha traits? Does that even exist? Assertiveness training? Find a buddhist temple and meditate on this for a year?

Also, no, I don’t want to become some a**hole. I don’t think you need to be a d!ck to be dominant.

I want to do this right. Help?

  • YaReally
    on July 22, 2013 at 7:29 pm
    Original Link

    “Also, no, I don’t want to become some a**hole. I don’t think you need to be a d!ck to be dominant.”

    You are correct. But you also have to learn that some of the stuff you think is “assholish” now only seems that way to you because of how you’ve been socially conditioned. Dominance and assertiveness doesn’t blend with always being politically correct and allowing everyone around you to do anything they want with no ones feelings being ignored so everyone feels like a special snowflake.

    “Do I seek a behavorial therapist who specializes in teaching how to gain alpha traits? Does that even exist? Assertiveness training? Find a buddhist temple and meditate on this for a year?”

    You could do all these things, and they might help…but why not just admit you want girls and go right to a pickup bootcamp? If you wanted to get in shape you’d go to a personal trainer and hire a nutritionist to teach you proper diet shit, you wouldn’t go to a Tony Robbins seminar…so why dance around seeking direct help when it comes to success with women and finding a quality girl for a relationship?

    I pretty much never recommend taking bootcamps because they’re expensive and people already think I’m secretly an RSD employee lol and I think most guys can learn what they need to via a combo of the free game information on the net and going out a fuckton and collecting reference experience.

    But as an older guy who doesn’t have his 20s and 30s to spend learning on his own, if you have money to burn and want to really handle it, a bootcamp with Ozzie from RSD might be good for you:

    Dude’s teaching style doesn’t gel with me at all personally, but he’s an older guy who’s in his 40s now and gets a lot of older clients and he’d understand the kind of shit you need to rewire in your head and might be able to jumpstart you.

    A bootcamp won’t fix you. It’s not a magic pill. At best it’ll give you a roadmap to follow and open your eyes a bit to what’s possible. You can come back from one and go right back into your old habits and beliefs and continue down the path you’re on right now…you have to keep your momentum up and work at it on your own as well.

    You can absolutely fix your shit. 40 isn’t even old these days. But it’ll take a fuckload of work on your end. It’s not something you’ll fix in a weekend. You either want it or you don’t…nobody gives a shit if you fix yourself, you won’t get a report-card on your death bed. You’ll have a few years of hard work in front of you but you can do it if you want to. :)

    Also watch everything here:

    Good luck. :)

on July 22, 2013 at 4:05 pm
Original Link

Interesting. My gf of 8 months broke up with me because “it will never work”…

I was dominant and we constantly battled for control of the relationship.

She would act out on something, I would disappear. She would figure this out. Things were great…then the cycle would repeat itself.

Finally she asked to move in with me for 6 weeks because her crazy mom wanted to move into HER apartment. I said no. Two weeks later she broke up with me.

She would only say it would never work. But when she came to pick up her stuff, all she would say was “I love you, I love you…but it will never work”.

I didn’t say anything at this point but was physical, just held her, let her cry, told her I loved her and walked away.

I wondered, what was the rush. Two weeks, no discussions, just goodbye.

A few things: a woman’s logic and her emotional side (Forebrain and hindbrain) are in constant conflict.

Yes, they want a “dominant” man, but then after the age of 30 they want to betacize that man or have been socially conditioned to expect that their man will become a doting beta.

I think the idea that I wouldn’t let her move in rubbed against the “protector of women and children” aspect of attraction and she lost attraction,

So if women shit-test, that’s considered a “default” position.

But dominant men—guys who parry shit-tests, do their own thing, lead, assholeish…it works and at some point things will fall apart.

However….in EVERY cast this has happened to me….the girl has come back…

In EVERY case, I have moved on.

This study seems bang on. Guys just tend to cave in to the pressures of shit tests and feminist social conditioning to be “nice”…

  • YaReally
    on July 22, 2013 at 7:58 pm
    Original Link

    Incidentally because from your writing I’m not sure if you realize it:

    You’re in the middle of a large shit-test. Stop all contact with her entirely, don’t text or call her for anything, put a Z in front of her name in your phone so it’s way at the bottom of the list and you remember not to drunk text her.

    She’ll txt you to get back together within a year, probably under 6 months.

    This is called an LSTFNE. Read this:

    Of course by then you won’t want her. :)

    • YaReally
      on July 22, 2013 at 8:06 pm
      Original Link

      (just to clarify, the LSTFNE is relevant to your situ because while she’s not leaving you specifically for another existing guy, she’s leaving you for the theoretical imaginary guy who will do whatever she says that she THINKS she wants…so a few months of missing you and/or trying other guys and realizing they either won’t put up with her bullshit or if they do she loses attraction for them, and you’ll get a 2am “hey” txt or, following Blackdragon’s advice in that thread (seriously, read his whole post), you can throw out a feeler and re-stoke the fire)

on July 22, 2013 at 4:52 pm
Original Link

I need help Heatiste members,

Little background:
I discovered this about a year ago, with random women and over short periods of time I have become very succesful, usually though after pumping and dumping I have no interest I move on, these girls range from a plain 6/10 to stunning 8/10 but they aren’t quality material for LTRs

My problem comes with those I would consider for a potential LTR, In the last year there have been 2 memorable in particular, both I had limited short term success with but didn’t manage to seal the deal, both eventually went from attracted to ‘Only see you as a friend’ now I don’t get one-itis anymore so I carry on with my usual game of picking up girls.

The question is what could I possibly be doing wrong and how do I rescue a situation and push it onwards when this ‘only as a friend’ stuff happens?

  • YaReally
    on July 22, 2013 at 7:41 pm
    Original Link

    “both I had limited short term success with but didn’t manage to seal the deal”


    • Hunter
      on July 22, 2013 at 7:53 pm
      Original Link

      hey yareally, are you going to get to my FR’s anytime soon?

      • YaReally
        on July 22, 2013 at 9:33 pm
        Original Link

        Check your last one (where you talk about your sticking points and 30 day challenge) this week sometime. Gotta play catch-up at work lol

        • Hunter
          on July 22, 2013 at 10:30 pm
          Original Link

          Sweet! Thanks, man. Seriously thought you forgot…

          • YaReally
            on July 23, 2013 at 12:06 am
            Original Link

            Nah they just take a loooong time to write-up and I got rent to pay so work comes first lol

            plus a lot of it will sort itself out for you by being in the field a lot and you sound like you’re putting in the hours so I know by the time I get to some of your sticking points you’ll already have fixed them. :)

  • Lumpy
    on July 22, 2013 at 9:15 pm
    Original Link

    This is and followup comments are how to keep her in the kitty without getting friend zoned:

    > The question is what could I possibly be doing wrong

    Not treating them like your pump and dumps. Fuck them first—then worry about whether they are LTR material.

    • YaReally
      on July 23, 2013 at 12:34 am
      Original Link

      “Not treating them like your pump and dumps. Fuck them first—then worry about whether they are LTR material.”

      This lol The “Why?” question was going to be followed up with “And what do you think you’re doing different with these ones?”. You’re subconsciously treating them different because you’ve categorized them Madonna/whore style.

    • immoralgables
      on July 23, 2013 at 4:50 am
      Original Link

      Lumpy. Thank you so much for the new additions to the YR Archive.

      Announcement: Lumpy is a beast and made some tweaks.

      Comments from Ripp and The Shocker have been archived in chronological order. Also, all of Scray’s Field Reports and his subsequent break-downs by YaReally have gotten the same treatment.

      Seriously thanks so much man this is one of the coolest things I have ever seen,

      • Matthew King
        on July 23, 2013 at 2:19 pm
        Original Link

        Dude. Check your gushing. Effusive public hero worship is unbecoming a man.

        The lack of restraint in dick-sucking even a worthy idol like CH goes beyond positive feedback into creepo-obsessive fanfic. Superfans should be discouraged by their idols, not encouraged, if they care about their charges’ path to independence (or at bare minimum, their mental health).

        Does “Lumpy” have an entry on that phenomenon?

        • Lumpy
          on July 23, 2013 at 4:30 pm
          Original Link

          I’d suck CH’s dick if that’s the question… but only if I could spit out in your mouth.

          • YaReally
            on July 23, 2013 at 6:20 pm
            Original Link

            lol’ed hard at this. Wasn’t expecting that response at all lol

            It’s called gratitude, Matt. That’s what happens when you actually contribute useful shit that helps other people…you should try that sometime.

            Also Lumpy’s YaReally archive is fucking amazingly done. I hope it helps a lot of guys out…it’s made commenting a lot easier, being able to quickly link to shit I’ve already written about instead of repeating myself lol. Massive props for the hard work!

        • Matthew King
          on July 24, 2013 at 7:56 am
          Original Link

          Gratitude is different from gushing like a chick at a Tom Jones concert throwing her panties on stage.

          Try a simple nod, eye contact, hand shake, a word or two (not “ZOMGGGG!!!”), something brief. That’s how men communicate gratitude. When you overdo it, you make a genuine expression of manly respect impossible.

          Mostly it’s just unbecoming. It weirds me out to see dudes in a mutual masturbation circle, with some other dude happily aw-shucksing his way through the praisekkake.


          • YaReally
            on July 24, 2013 at 9:28 pm
            Original Link

            “It weirds me out to see dudes in a mutual masturbation circle”

            That’s weird, I thought that was your thing.

            Nobody cares about how you think men should act.

on July 22, 2013 at 6:58 pm
Original Link

Golly gee, I seem to remember someone mentioning this at some point. Oh ya, this guy here, about a million times lol:

It’s cute that science is finally catching up to what us PUAs have been telling everyone for years. Like I’ve said before, PUA is not based on “theories” or “ideas” or mental masturbation…it’s based on cold hard mass Field Experience followed by analyzing and cross-referencing that experience.

If looks or money were relevant, we would be the FIRST ones telling guys to go get a 6-pack and a 6-figure salary. It just doesn’t line up with reality. It’s brainwashed mass social conditioning at play.

Go out. See it all for yourself. The second you tell me looks matter is the second you give away how little Field Experience you have.

“Readers can issue a correction if this interpretation is wrong, but what this study result shows is that dominant men with good looks actually had LOWER mating success than dominant men with rougher looks.”

No surprise. Who’s more of a boss: a normal healthy adult male climbing Mount Everest or a guy with one arm and one leg? They both accomplished the same feat but one overcame a fuckton more challenges to do it…the guy missing limbs comes off as much more of a badass than the guy who we expected to be able to do it.

A short or fat or ugly guy being dominant and assuming attraction and being socially proofed by other women etc. is a mind-fuck to girls because its something they never run into and for that guy to exist means that he must be a badass to overcome his socially conditioned limitations and EXPECT to get hot chicks.

We all expect Brad Pitt I have girls on his arm…and if he DOESN’T, he looks even lamer. He has to be EXTRA dominant because girls just assume he should be naturally dominant. This is why girls get pissed/frustrated when they go up to a tall good-looking guy only to find out he’s a big sloppy vagina. They thought his externals meant his internals would be solid but 99% of the time they don’t (despite the myths, again go out in the Field) so it’s extra frustrating to them to be “duped” like that.

As I’ve said before, I routinely game in venues where the guys are all taller, buff/ripped, richer, driving fancy cars, etc and the girls are all legit 7+ (they don’t let ugly people in (“dress code” and all lol) so girls know to bring their hot friends). If I’m talking to a girl, other guys don’t exist unless my game is off and I drop the ball. And most of those guys are too chickenshit to approach, don’t know how to escalate when they DO approach, and end the night by either going home alone, hiring a hooker, or getting into fights lol

  • Scray
    on July 22, 2013 at 7:20 pm
    Original Link

    I was going to ask something along these lines. Like, I’ve noticed that this 7 really likes me. And she’s sure to dote and lovingly talk about every quirk. I wonder if playing against expectation actually reaps you larger rewards, in terms of long-term affection. It’s just a lot of ‘I’ve never done/thought/felt this before…’ So, if anything, getting into game with a handicap…if you can overcome the handicap…could be such a huge ROI.

    I’d analyze it closer by asking her questions about it but ehhhh most of my energy goes into not fucking up with her. (Srs, like I have to stop myself from just….looking at her….and shit lol)

    • YaReally
      on July 22, 2013 at 7:40 pm
      Original Link

      You’re on the right track. That’s why I said way back that your height can actually be an advantage. But most guys won’t believe me when I say that till they have a doting 7 chasing them around. ;)

      Think about it from her perspective: she’s found a secret diamond in the rough that other girls missed out on. She’s found a guy who breaks all the stereotypes she’s been fed by society, what kind of boss must that guy be to spit in society’s face and not accept the role they tried to paint for him? Then on top of it she’s mind-fucked by all the things you do that open her up to a whole new world where she’s just amazed and mystified that her preconceived notions and beliefs could all have been wrong and it was just that she hadn’t met a REAL Man(TM) yet. She looks at you the way you look at her…like a magnificent piece of art you stare at in wonder. :)

      And it’ll only get better from here. You’ve got your whole life ahead of you. Like I say, in 5 years you won’t even recognize Old Scray. And you EARNED it by putting in the work.

on July 22, 2013 at 10:37 pm
Original Link

somebody needs to beat yareallys ass… guys is fucking annoying

on July 23, 2013 at 1:17 am
Original Link

Related shit on looks:

At 6:55 in this video:

And allllll these other videos:

For more reference on this, go out and talk to girls. lol

Rollo Tomassi
on July 23, 2013 at 10:13 am
Original Link

How about this: Physical muscularity, stature and masculine physical attributes in men are evolutionarily selected-for sexual cues indicating male dominance for women:

Whether that dominance is confirmed in a man’s behavior or character is still up for interpretation once past the arousal phase, but the precursor to discovering if a man is legitimately dominant is being attracted to and aroused by his physical characteristics first.

  • YaReally
    on July 23, 2013 at 9:26 pm
    Original Link

    Didn’t read the study but by your description of it, this is what I mean when I say height, muscles to women etc are just like a slutty dress and push-up bra are to men: a very quick easy indicator of “this man is probably alpha high value” or “this woman is probably sexually high value”

    It’s like a shortcut. Sure the mousy girl with the glasses and frizzy hair might turn out to be sexy as fuck when she’s done up She’s All That style, and sure the fat short guy might be a dominant alpha badass, but that’s harder to see at first glance.

    This is why I say, the short far guy just needs to figure out how to demonstrate/display dominant alpha traits and he’ll get attraction, just like the mousy girl would if she did herself up on a night out.

    And it’s also why girls are disappointed to find out the tall good-looking 6-pack guy is a beta chode, the same way it’d be disappointing to a man to find out the sexy Megan Fox lookalike has herpes and 2 kids. Their outward “easy indicators” of their value were false.

    So again like I say, height muscles etc is all just external shit that allows a girl to, at first glance, assume you probably have attractive dominant/alpha traits…but if you’re a good-looking beta chode, you will still lose the girl (again see death row at 2am when these guys are hitting on 4/10s and hiring hookers or going home to jack off to porn), and if you’re an ugly dude who’s more dominant/alpha than the other guys, you’ll do just fine.

    Ideally, ya, be super good-looking and tall and rich and have a Ferrari and be a dominant badass alpha etc etc. but that relies on a lot of luck/flukes in the genetic lottery and quite frankly this combo is like 0.000001% of the population. Most of the guys who THINK they’re this, aren’t. I know cause I’m in the clubs with them every week lol worrying about them is silly.

Marriage Down, Ho’s Up

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 20, 2013 at 8:28 am
Original Link

OT: I wonder if gunslingergregi is dead.

  • Joe Sixpack
    on July 21, 2013 at 10:38 am
    Original Link

    Along those same lines…

    Does A.B. Daba = YaReally?

    • YaReally
      on July 23, 2013 at 12:52 am
      Original Link

      Fuck to the no. Good god. lol

      I just assumed he vanished along with the other full of shit guys once people who actually go out started posting in the Manosphere and made fun of them for carrying AK-47s in their man-purse or whatever it was lol

on July 22, 2013 at 1:30 pm
Original Link

Hey YaReally, Scray, Immoralgables, anyone else good with game, it’s been awhile so time for an update.

SPOILER ALERT: Haven’t gotten laid… yet.

Now onto the details.

I’ve been going out everyday for the last five days, so I decided to just go all the way and do a 30 day challenge (today is DAY 6). Have been out talking to girls since last Wednesday. At the most I’ll have one beer at the bar, but I prefer nothing at all cuz duh, it’s a more natural improvement of my game. I’ve been out to several bars, have been developing rapport with the staff at a couple of places so, yeah, pretty fun stuff.

Unfortunately, this hasn’t been getting me laid at all, which kind of puts a damper on the whole thing. I can talk to girls, get numbers and stuff, but… okay fine, I haven’t gotten THAT many numbers. There are quite a few sticking points that are annoying me.

1. I have trouble asking for the number… mostly because I forget…

This may not be a problem anymore, cuz just yesterday I asked every group I opened for contact info.

2. I eject when the girls don’t respond to me

This kind of annoys me cuz they’re not leaving, but they’re like ignoring me and then I get annoyed and leave.

This happened at the beach at some rooftop party thingy in the afternoon:

ME: Hey guys, hows it going?
Hot girls: Good.
ME: Who do you know here?
Hot girls: We’re here with our friends over there.
ME: Cool, I’m here with my friends too.
Hot girls: …
ME: (Situational thread about dancing dude) That guys pretty terrible lol.
Hot girls: Yup…
ME: Alright you guys are boring, have a good one.
Hot girls: See ya…

Cuz honestly in most cases the girls are either super receptive or need to be talked to more… but honestly I asked boring questions… I don’t blame ‘em lol… so I guess I figured out my problem while writing this, nevermind.

3. I haven’t gone on any Day 2’s

This is really just my fault because I haven’t been asking for numbers, like, at all until two days ago. Anyway, the girl I met at the club is extraordinarily busy. She responds really quickly and wants to meet up, just has some project her employer’s making her do. It seems like she’s down so fine with me. Literally every other text I’m pushing for the Day 2, leading the interaction. Again, receptive, but busy. Like, she knows I want to fuck her lol. We’ll see…

Also got FB’s for two foreign girls (they don’t have phones and just got here). One of them is a fucking model and the other’s like eh, an attractive blonde, it’s just that the brunette (model) is obviously prettier. How do I fuck the model? I feel like my value is too low or something cuz she’s only responded with an emoticon to my FB messages, whereas the blonde is way more up for building rapport (i.e. she responds to my messages). I only just met them so it’s no big deal. Trying to get them out to a club I know people at (free drinks, free cover, etc.).

And I guess I didn’t build enough rapport with the brunette. I approached her group, asked the guy how he knew the girls and they said they’re just friends. Then I talk to the girls and accidentally spend most of the time talking to the blonde and then I dance with the brunette for a couple of seconds and say we should go dancing. I was kind of grasping for straws near the end so I left and added them on FB on the spot (cuz you know thru the mobile app since they don’t have phones, they just got to America a week ago). So anyway, how do I build interest with the brunette? Judging by her fb pics, she’s some sort of model… i’ve sent her a few messages so far, but has responded minimally… sorry for repeating myself, just explaining the situation.

Lets see, and then one of the other nights I was gaming with this random dude I met at a pua seminar (it was a tyler rsd one actually, shook his hand i was starstruck lol) and we gamed the whole night. But for whatever stupid reason, I didn’t ask this fucking hot blonde chick who was so into me for her number. Promoter girl. Awesome body and face. Like a 9 or whatever.

Her: “OMG who are you guys?! lol”

Sorry had to throw that in there cuz that’s never happened to me before lol. But as you can tell theres a pattern going on here. This is all ego crap. It feels good mentally to know that I can kind of game girls, but I haven’t had any sex at all…

I’ve also gotten other numbers, but I never built a strong connection on the initial meet. I grind for 10 minutes, get their number and just go… 2 of these kinds of numbers haven’t been really receptive to my texting… especially since I forgot one of their names lol. So how do you bounce back over text from forgetting their name? And should I keep these numbers and just keep texting over time or what? Do you ever dispose of numbers guys?

Really the solution here might just be to get more numbers. Just so you know:

1. My texts are laid back, with a lot of lols and hehe’s
2. I make sexual jokes sometimes
3. I always push for fun adventures to be had and that we should meetup

I might just read some more text scripts cuz I’m just okay.

Other realizations

1. Approach anxiety has gone WAY done… like it only exists when I wait too long to approach

2. Every single conversation I have with anybody has improved significantly. Awkward pauses are gone or just comfortably felt by me cuz I don’t really care or I’l keep talking cuz I also like to talk about myself lol or just random shit. “Game the wall!” as RSD Julien said in a recent vid.

3. I’m more of a dick for sure, more or less…

I’ve realized this and I kinda like it :)

4. Attractive girls aren’t scary anymore lol

5. Girls assume I get girls automatically cuz of the way I speak/interact

Girl: “So you do this all the time… pick up girls lol”

ME: “Yup. All the time lol”

Girl: “Lol”

^^^^^Again this stuff feels good mentally but hasn’t led to any sex. Anymore thoughts for me guys? I’d have added more detail but I’m writing this at work lol. Time to get back to it so please let me know where I can improve. Story ideas? Scripts to read/practice? I’m heading out for maybe an hour today cuz I really can’t stay out too long every night, have shit to do.


  • YaReally
    on July 22, 2013 at 8:24 pm
    Original Link

    I’ll do up an in-depth reply for ya this week! Props on going out :D

    “so I guess I figured out my problem while writing this, nevermind.”

    This is why we write Field Reports. ;) A lot of time, just recapping your situ puts things into perspective in your own head or makes patterns in your behavior obvious and brings sticking points to the surface…even if nobody replies to your FR or you just keep a personal journal or private blog or text files on your computer, writing these things is important.

Measures Of Fuckability

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 18, 2013 at 3:09 pm
Original Link

Highlights from the Day 2 —

It’s a fun little bar where they have a lot of games to play (I crush her at darts and pool). She buys us a round of drinks. She does the formal apology thing. We have a lot of fun times (srs.)

Good comfort routine I think is talking about how the different primate males get female attention.

Me: See, we come from primates…so like, a lot of what we do comes from what they do. Like there’s one group who are just bigger than the females and they have harems and they use their physical dominance…they also have like, one inch dicks and sex is real quick for them. Then there’s another group that….just have huge dicks and everyone has sex with everyone else and whoever has the best sperm reproduces. Then, there’s another group that’s just perfectly monogamous forever, and they sing to one another. Then there’s this last group where, pretty much, you have to have a lot of friends. Whoever has the most friends gets the most women, and – -
Her: You’re like that one, with the friends!
Me ….whoa, whoa…I mean, think about it. I mean, physical dominance, huge dick, beautiful song, popular. I mean….
Her: Ya, no you’re the one who’s just talking to everyone and has a lot of friends
Me: I’m pretty sure I’m like the one with the physical dominance
Her: ….hahhaha noooooo….what the fuck, do you want like a harem or something?
Me: ….I’m actually just trying to prepare you for the fact that I have a one inch dick.
(she loves that, and we’re already sitting close…so then she takes my hand and shows me something — which I’m totally going to steal as another comfort routine)

Her: Give me your hand….(she grabs it anyway lol)
Me: This better be good
Her: See, hold my hand but with your index pointed outward along mine. Now, close your eyes and run your fingers over both your and my index…it’ll feel like one finger.
Me: All right. I’m trusting you.
….(does it)
Me: What the fuck are you talking about? That doesn’t feel like that at all!
Her: Really?! Nothing?
Me: What cad taught you this bullshit?!

So it’s going good. Lots of fun stuff, she counted the stars we could see in german….you know, one of those romantic souls. About to think of a way to bounce back to my place when I fuck up a little. We’re sitting in the outside area, close, but we are in a public place. I’m pretty nervous (ya even tho we’re holding hands and cuddling a bit and blah blah)….so, (stammeringly)…

Me: So….I was, uh….well you had this look in your eye….(Greaaaaaaat)
Her: hm?
Me: (must. follow. through)…..ya…I was just wondering….do you wanna kiss me?
Her: (complete shock and surprise) WHAT. NO! No. No. If I wanted to kiss you I would have done it. That’s how I am, and – -
Me: (Ugh. Ouch. I just kind of laugh at the humiliation)…okay, okay, relax, calm down. Caaaaaaalm down.
Her: Yeah, I’m the type of person who will just do it when I want to do it.
Me: (I just nod and let her spin her wheels a bit…must. plow. through)….
Her: Blah blah blah what kind of question is that blah blah blah ………..Why, did you want to kiss me?
Me: (I just give her a mild ‘duh’ look and smirk)….
Her: Well….I want to, I just….there’s a lot of people around, and…
Me: (I’m having enough trouble keeping my internals under control to think of something clever to say…I just nod and smile, and then progress to another topic..)

So I still get the bounce under the pretense of a movie. And then, we’re sitting on my couch….

Her: Yeah, this is nice. Unlike earlier when you were being LAME. So LAME. That is the lamest thing I’ve ever heard. Do you want to kiss me? I have never had anyone ask me a question like that. You just need to do it or not….so amazingly awkward, I mean, oh my gawd….soooooooo nerdy, I swear (seriously…she’s just going ONNNN AND OOOOONNNNN……)

I kind of recline a bit and look over at her

Me:……do you want to kiss me now?

And that was it.

  • YaReally
    on July 18, 2013 at 4:23 pm
    Original Link

    lol jeeze, gave me a heart attack. I’m in a rush today so I can’t write much but 1) congrats dude! and 2) told ya. ;)

    Quick notes:

    “We’re sitting in the outside area, close, but we are in a public place.”

    This is why you have a plan for “okay now how do we get from this public place to a more isolated place…even if that’s just the patio area, or a back corner booth, or out on a quiet street, or back to my place, or to the parking lot to move her car, etc.” Because with most girls their ASD won’t let them go too far in public, even if they really really want to.

    “Me: So….I was, uh….well you had this look in your eye….(Greaaaaaaat)
    Her: hm?
    Me: (must. follow. through)…..ya…I was just wondering….do you wanna kiss me?”

    Oh…oh Scray. lol Cringed hard reading this whole part. But on the flip side we’ve all been there, and I’m glad you got to hear right from the horse’s mouth: “So LAME. That is the lamest thing I’ve ever heard. Do you want to kiss me? I have never had anyone ask me a question like that. You just need to do it or not….so amazingly awkward, I mean, oh my gawd”

    ’cause you will *NEVER* forget her saying that to you lol. She’s giving you the blueprint right there…next time you think “should I kiss her?” you’ll remember this chick and be like “goddamn, I’m going to just do it.” and go for it. So in the end it’s good.

    The MM routine of “Do you want to kiss me?” is actually solid, but it’s done from a confident playful “I would be giving you value if I let you kiss me” frame VS a nervous “am I allowed to kiss you?” value-taking frame lol.

    But that’s fine, you got through it. Ultimately while it was shaky there, you DID listen to her “there’s a lot of people around, and…” signal, and you DID change the topic instead of dwelling on it, and you DID handle her objection by then isolating you two to get her alone, and then you DID push forward again once you were alone. So that’s good stuff. Some guys would get stuck trying to logically convince her to kiss them in public. Some guys would just chalk the date up as a write-off thinking “I guess she doesn’t like me”. Some guys wouldn’t figure out how to get her to their place to be isolated.

    So the lesson here is that a lot of seduction is picking up on the girl’s signals and calibrating to them…some of them we know are a given, like that she won’t fuck you on the table in a brightly lit busy restaurant, you need to isolate her to make her ASD chill, and you generally can’t ask her to come up to your apartment to suck your dick, you need a bullshit excuse for her to tell herself so she’s not admitting she wants sex and triggering her ASD…so we can plan for a lot of those things when we design our Day 2.

    But the other half of the battle is picking up on her little signals of what she needs you to handle/disarm/avoid for her to fuck you. That chick WANTED to bang you, she just needed you to provide isolation for it and to take the responsibility off her, so she signaled those things to you and you handled them, so then she’s free to fuck you.

    This is why routine-monkeys get stuck, because they don’t calibrate to what the girl is thinking/feeling and they can’t adapt their game and just stick to the routine…pickup is an art, it’s like water, it flows and adapts as the interaction goes on. It’s not a solid brick you throw at the girl’s head lol

    Anyway, props and congrats dude. Any after-thoughts on the whole thing, looking back?

    • YaReally
      on July 18, 2013 at 4:24 pm
      Original Link

      (the near heart attack was from the whole “ummm do you umm want to kiss me?” part lol I wasn’t sure if you’d recover or get sucked into logically trying to convince her to go against her ASD)

on July 18, 2013 at 4:03 pm
Original Link

7 hours.

Back in the early PUA days, we didn’t really look at it as number of dates. We looked at it as about 7 hours of spending time together to get the lay (for a solid attraction-based lay VS a fast fool’s mate lay…basically, her attracted enough to want to keep seeing you, but not overboard to where you’re in a dating frame).

Like the mindset was completely different…we called it “Speed Seduction”, but that wasn’t just a gimmicky name, it was because we were looking for the most efficient route to the lay.

So the IDEAL was cold approach a girl, and spend enough time with her to get the lay right then and there…so approach a chick at a bar around 8 or 9 and go through venue changes, partying, hang with her friends, drink, dance, build comfort/rapport, isolate, escalate, venue change for food, back to her place or yours, handle whatever friend-related obstacles are left, disarm some LMR, and have sex by 3 or 4am.

Or cold approach a girl in the day, say running daygame around 2pm and go on an insta-date, venue change, build comfort/rapport, grab food, go for a walk, grab a drink somewhere as evening rolls in, escalate, venue change, back to her place or yours, disarm some LMR, and have sex by 9pm or just in general that night for sure.

Now getting a phone number was actually a “failure” in that it was a last resort…if you HAD to, you’d get a number, because for whatever reason the logistics weren’t going to work to stick with her and bang her in the initial interaction (ie – you meet her on her lunch break and she has to go back to work, or you meet her at the bar but her friend is puking and she has to take her home, etc.). This is why we didn’t just collect phone numbers, we Time Bridged (ala Mystery Method), where the purpose of getting a number was to solidify plans to DO something. It wasn’t “give me your #, we should hang out sometime”, it was “give me your # and we’ll go see that thing we talked about on Tuesday.”

So ending up on a “Day 2″ was simply a consequence of not being able to seal the deal on the initial meet…it wasn’t a GOAL to go on a Day 2.

On top of that, the 7 hour rule doesn’t care how you divide it up. You can stretch the first interaction out for 7 hours and get the lay, or you could go on 7 one hour dates…but because it was SPEED Seduction we were going for the most efficient route, which is as few dates as possible, ideally none.

So most of the time it would look something like 2-4 hours together in the initial interaction, then a Day 2 that lasts a few hours and boom, that’s the 7 hours down and if your game was tight, she should be ready to bang by then.

It would be rare for it to take till a Day 3, and we would basically say “dude, your game needs serious work” if a guy was ending up on Day 4s and 5s. Like we could use this as a guage of “it takes me a solid 2 dates to get a lay every time” sticking points where we could say “post some Field Reports and we’ll figure out how to tighten your shit up ’cause it shouldn’t be taking that long”.

We can bang faster than 7 hours now, as RSD has shown, but I still feel like 7 hours is a good guide for a really solid pickup. Like I can go run a numbers game and find something to stick my dick in in under an hour who won’t remember my name the next morning, and that can even turn into a fuckbuddy/relationship situ now and then. But for the type of game we were running back in the day, the “art” part of “pickup artist”, where the girl felt like she had met her soulmate and like you knew her the way no one else in her life ever knew or understood her, and she would chase you and beg to hang out again etc. etc….7 hours is solid.

If you’re taking 3 dates to get the lay, you could be more efficient/tighter/creative. If you have tight game you SHOULD be having sex on your Day 2 or initial meet. If your Day 2 ends without sex, it means that you dropped the ball somewhere and your game could be tightened up.

That’s why I was encouraging Scray yesterday to have sex with his chick he had a date set up with. All the signs were there that she was into it, so if he hadn’t gotten the lay, I’d have said “okay, that’s not an outcome that should have happened…let’s look at where you dropped the ball. What were logistics like? What was your plan for getting back to your place? Did you miss signals she gave you? etc.” and helped him narrow down where he could’ve been more efficient.

It doesn’t matter if she’s hot. She could be smokin gorgeous and trying to play hard to get, but if her favorite rich handsome tall famous celebrity stud showed up and said “I want to whisk you away for a few hours on a date, blow your emotions through the roof, and then fuck your brains out”, she would fuck him. So if you’re not able to duplicate that, then it’s just a matter of not having high enough value to her, or not having a solid enough Day 2 plan that leads back to one of your bedrooms.

So ya, 7 hours. For the life of me I legit can’t even remember the last time I went out with a girl on a Day 3 without her having put out already lol.

I think game this days has evolved, but guys have also lost the cut-throat edge that we had in the early days…it’s a lot more “just have fun and it’ll happen eventually, who cares, you have other girls” VS “take her here, do this, do that, and push for the lay that night”. On the one hand that’s a good thing, because it’s an overall healthier “don’t give a fuck” mindset to build…but on the other hand, well, you can’t argue with results. It’s like going to the gym and randomly lifting weights until you’re “tired” VS going and purposely pushing yourself one rep further than last time and tracking your measurements etc. You’ll get in shape either way, but one way is efficient/fast and the other is less so.

  • Scray
    on July 18, 2013 at 5:43 pm
    Original Link

    Yeah, it was so helpful when you said yesterday to just get in the mindset of ‘just going out to shoot the shit,’ because I think it gets at this. 7 hours is a long time. I mean, we were there for like 2 hours or so before we even were sitting next to one another and kinda cuddling. And then like another hour after that before the incident. And then another hour and a half after that of full recovery lol. When we first met it was like about 30-40 minutes of talking.

    To me 7 hours is a long-assed time lol. But like, if you’re looking to actually DHV and stuff….that shit just takes awhile. All of my sets that have turned into something were longer interactions. Like, when you’re working just off your personality to DHV and shit…..that takes awhile (for me at least lol…I’m sure I can get tighter eventually).

    10-15 minutes —> social hookpoint (like, where they wouldn’t think it was weird if you went with them somewhere else in the venue or where you can lead them)
    ~40 minutes —-> solid A3

    Going back…most of my flakes are from interactions that were like 10-15 minutes long total.

    I do think that when I get tighter, maybe I’ll be able to shave off time to all of this. But, y’know…I’m just a person. I fuck up and have to recover lol. Sometimes I stumble on the opener. Sometimes my ‘imagined as awesome’ DHV routine falls flat, etc. etc. etc. etc.

    So really walking in there with a ‘I don’t expect anything, let’s just shoot the shit mindset’ may take care of a lot of this –> will try it tonight.

    • YaReally
      on July 19, 2013 at 1:25 pm
      Original Link

      I’m not a big fan of Alexander from RSD’s style/teaching but he puts it like “being at a bar is like you’re all in detention together. You’re all strangers trapped in the same room for a few hours. So be that guy in detention who makes a boring/awkward situation fun and shoots the shit and becomes the center of attention…they need that and you can provide it.”

      I like that outlook in general.

      Also compare our 7 hours to a normal guy. A normal guy spends weeks getting to know a girl in his social circle. Or maybe he flukes into a cold approach…then he goes on a dinner & movie date (4 hours) and gets a peck on the cheek and $100+ because he pays for both of them. Then a daytime date kayaking or skydiving to impress her, another 4 hours plus maybe a kiss plus $100. Then a couple more dinner dates, another 6 hours total there plus another $100. Then a DVD night to finally make the move, another 2 or 3 movies in a row as he works up the balls to do what she’s dying for him to do…so another 6 hours then finally sex.

      You spent 30 min with a girl, got her #, then spent like 5-7 hours goofing around and got sex. You could’ve even made her pay for her own drinks lol

      Compared to a normal guy, that’s pretty slick.

      I think part of why I grew to like women is that I looked at that 7 hours as fun instead of an obstacle. To me 7hrs was mind-blowingly fast compared to what people think so it was like lol sure lets go on a little adventure and tease eachother and okay show me your family photos when we’re at your place, oh cool so you’re into bla bla…like I know the sex will happen either that night or the next so fuck it, lets smile and have fun and people-watch together and let me drag her into the rain for a kiss and let’s pretend we’re brother & sister then weird people out by kissing and lets collect some funny stories and fuck it lets pop into the strip club and lets hit an arcade so I can kick her ass at a game and then let her win so she can do a victory dance, lets sneak up to the roof to slow-dance to songs on my iPod…

      Like man, it’s all fun. Esp when you’re with a cute girl you know you’ll be banging later.

      For normal guys (specifically the rich good looking ones who thought having $ and a 6-pack and nice car would = instant pussy), it can be frustrating like man I’ve spent $500 and it’s been a month of dates, where’s the return on my investment!! Or for bitter “women are all shit” Manosphere type PUAs the 7 hours is a chore like “ugh now I have to TALK to her…why can’t she just put out?? Women only say stupid shit anyway, fuckin bitches.”

      That’s all silly to me. Far as I’m concerned I’m making out like a bandit even if it takes me 9 hours instead of 7 lol

  • The Best Single Man Currently Living in the United States
    on July 19, 2013 at 7:32 am
    Original Link

    Bro do you have a job? How the fuck do you write 20 pages of comments here every day?

    • YaReally
      on July 19, 2013 at 1:28 pm
      Original Link

      I use my penis as a third finger for typing. Any typos are beaucse it’s so huge it just mashes clumps of keys all at once.

Chicks Dig Jerks: The Truth Is Breaching Containment Zone

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 17, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Original Link

They dig cads in comparison to betas, but it really seems like strong man of virtue > cad.

Still don’t think it’s because they are jerks. It’s because being a jerk is a manifestation of strength. Chicks dig strength. So, ya jerk is way better than supplicating nice guy because one is strong and the other is weak.

[CH: Whether the jerkiness itself is attractive to women, or the jerkiness is a signal for other traits that are attractive to women, the consequences and the lessons for men are the same: Act like a jerk, get pussy.]

  • YaReally
    on July 17, 2013 at 4:48 pm
    Original Link

    Betas = woman who looks average or ugly with no makeup in plain clothes

    Cads = woman who looks hot in makeup and a slutty dress

    Virtue = woman who looks hot with no makeup in plain clothes.

    Ya, the ideal is the last one, the chick who’s a 10 fresh out of bed on a Sunday morning, but she’s so rare that you’ll take the 2nd one in the meantime.

    Cad is just the fastest/easiest way to display attractive attributes, and women so rarely meet an alpha guy with virtue blah blah who’s ALSO good at seduction, that they’ll go for the cads cause what’s the alternative? Going for the beta or waiting for the unicorn to magically arrive?

    The problem is a lot of betas try jumping to the virtue route but it’s not because that’s who they are, it’s because they think that’s what women want and they’re doing it just to get in the girl’s pants…they aren’t genuinely spreading value or living up to their standards etc…thus the butt-hurtness when their offerings aren’t reciprocate.

    Someone who truly virtuously gives value to the people around him doesn’t care whether they thank him or reciprocate…he’s doing it because that’s who he is.

    But again this is rare. Usually guys like that are guys who’ve been thru a lot of self-discovery in their life and really solidified what they believe and who they are and how they act. We live in a culture that shuns self-analysis and tells us we’re all perfect no matter how shitty we are, and we make fun of people who get into self-help/development and bring them down like crabs in a bucket when they try to grow, so that we won’t be forced to confront our own lack of drive or success.

    So in the meantime, a cad is a convenient option for women. But men should strive to be more than that, for their own sake.

    • cryo
      on July 17, 2013 at 5:08 pm
      Original Link

      “The problem is a lot of betas try jumping to the virtue route but it’s not because that’s who they are, it’s because they think that’s what women want and they’re doing it just to get in the girl’s pants…they aren’t genuinely spreading value or living up to their standards etc…thus the butt-hurtness when their offerings aren’t reciprocate.”

      Either that or they interpret virtue as never acting out in a way that might offend someone or put others at unease. They think being virtuous is sticking to life’s script and never stepping outside of their innocuous public persona. Most Christian men are guilty of this. They lash out at the world but never seem to fathom how dreadfully boring they seem to women.

      • YaReally
        on July 17, 2013 at 6:14 pm
        Original Link

        Right, exactly. Religion-you-were-raised-with, political correctness, simply being hypnotized by your environment (walking into a swank ballroom party while you’re wearing sweatpants and work as a plumber)…these are all things that influence a man to believe in a set of values/beliefs he’s GIVEN rather than deciding them for himself. So if you’re being “good” to get in a girl’s pants or because god will strike you down or because you don’t want to offend people, you’re still living in reaction to external standards VS being good because that’s who you are.

  • Scray
    on July 17, 2013 at 4:54 pm
    Original Link

    Well, that’s true…but there could be something deeper than just ‘be a jerk.’ If there wasn’t something -deeper- we wouldn’t have to demarcate shit like ‘cheerful asshole’ vs. ‘bitter asshole.’ Aren’t both of them types of jerks?

    [CH: The degree of jerkiness isn't the distinction there; rather, it's the outcome dependence. (Outcome independent jerks are more desired than outcome dependent jerks.) But both are still better than being a boring niceguy.]

    There’s a crucial difference between the two types — one is still weak and the other is strong.

    [Conventionally, the jerk is the guy who's in control of his emotions (note that this doesn't mean he's a stone-faced unreadable totem). So his strength is implied. The guy who lets it all hang out and flies his butthurt flag high isn't a jerk so much as a creep, or a tool, or a loser.]

    What makes the ‘cheerful asshole’ strong is his unbreakable reality. You could call him a faggot and say he was ugly and blah blah blah and he’d still give a genuine smile and shrug —- because nothing you can say or do is going to shake him. His strong will is the key. That’s what’s cool…not really the fact that he’s a dick.

    [I wouldn't get too carried away with this "just stand there and do nothing when insulted" trope that this is supposed to be attractive to women. Nevertheless, sexy jerks often act in ways and say things that would be deemed impolite by other men, or by niceguys who can't understand why they don't get any action.]

    • YaReally
      on July 17, 2013 at 5:25 pm
      Original Link

      I heart both of you but the disconnect you guys are running into here is what I’ve said before about “if two of the same thing give you different results, drill deeper to find the diamond of a consistent principle”.

      CH is just looking more at the surface level of “what works” while Scray is trying to figure out “WHY does this work?” (because this is all a new/fascinating puzzle to him, I was the same way myself and attribute the drive to link concepts together as part of why I improved quickly)

      You guys technically aren’t disagreeing, you’re just looking at different levels of the concept/principle.

      The commonalities between the aggressive take-no-shit asshole and the laid back no fuck given agreeable asshole are knowing their own standards of what they tolerate from people and being congruent to that. They have different standards from eachother but the point is that they, personally, have those standards from within themselves. ie – when the aggressive assholish says “HEY. Cut that shit out.” he’s not doing that because he’s worried about what people will think, he’s doing it because it crosses his line. Same time when the chill guy is like “ya man you got me, there’s a dildo in my ass right NOW, that’s why I’m sitting funny”, he’s not doing it because he’s worried about what people will think, he’s doing it because it doesn’t cross his line.

      In both cases they’re congruent to their solid internal beliefs and acting from their own intentions rather than reacting to the world around them. Those are the diamond consistent concepts under the differing surface behaviors.

      …but it’s easier to just tell newbies to act like assholes because this is too deep for them. Then trust that they’ll dig for the diamond on their own down the road. Learning game is a life-long journey. :)

      • YaReally
        on July 17, 2013 at 5:31 pm
        Original Link

        To clarify further, on the “stand there and take it” “shrug & smile” thing, that’s generally my method when it comes to personal insults. But I’m not bottling up seething rage and just putting on a “no fucks given” front…I legitimately don’t care so I’ll shrug and smile. I’m congruently expressing myself.

        Same time a legit alpha who scolds someone isn’t doing it because he’s thinking “oops I don’t really care but it’s time to start some drama here” and acting…he’s congruently expressing himself.

        So regardless of which external act is performed, the diamond concept under the surface is congruently expressing yourself. That’s what’s attractive and why both methods can work

        Contrast that to the newbie PUA who’s starting drama as a routine but doesn’t have any intent backing up his pretend anger, or the angry fucker who’s putting on a fake smile pretending nothing’s wrong but clearly seething under the surface…neither of those guys is congruent or expressing themselves, and neither of them is attractive.

Reader Mailbag: A Mighty Fuck Given Edition

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 16, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Original Link

I dunno, 4.5′s-6.5s girls who think they are the hottest things to walk the earth normally have nastier attitudes (to guys and fellow gals) than 7s and ups. Could never figure out why.

Re: advice to the girl having alpha player dilemma, pretty much all heartiste said. I will place more emphasis in appearing more scarce and not too available via text e.t.c (while still being nice and sweet when he initiates contact). It doesn’t mean you will win him back or he would think of you more as a result, but you can at least try to salvage/save/preserve your dignity. Work on improving your physical appearance, there is always room for improvement and when you move back to town, do not directly let him know you are available. I am sure the news will somehow get to him. Wait it out to see if he initiates some contact and subsequently asks you out. If he doesn’t, count your losses and move on.

  • Scray
    on July 16, 2013 at 3:26 pm
    Original Link

    They’re more approachable. Guys from 3.5-8 gun for that range. They get a lot of attention. Whereas, an 8 is getting attention from 7-10 range guys. I mean, girls who are in that range know that they are in kind of a tough spot. A 3.5 girl IRL (online lol…fugghetaboutit) sort of knows she has to just settle for some 4-5 beta. A 5.5 girl? Ehhhhh…….she’s just on the cusp of greater things.

    That said, there’s nothing universal about that rule. There are plenty of slutty 7′s and plenty of chaste ‘good girl’ 5′s. An interesting subject is the nature of femininity….

    …like, you take a 5 and a 6 — the 5 is more classically feminine in appearance and the 6 has more of a mannish look. I’d probably prefer the 5 to the 6, even though I guess the 6 is more attractive. Then I’d wonder if this whole ‘who’s sluttier’ thing has more to do with who has more feminine/masculine features. It could just be that being hotter, as a woman, correlates with having more feminine features.

    • PetiteOlive
      on July 16, 2013 at 9:51 pm
      Original Link

      i hear ya. I just think a lot of mid level attractive girls have a more stuck up attitude than their hotter counterparts. It’s almost as if they have ‘something to prove’.

      • immoralgables
        on July 16, 2013 at 10:13 pm
        Original Link


        Your inclination is definitely correct. Here’s why:

        1) Once you get to a certain point where you feel that you can do better (or WANT to do better) than the mid-level attractive girls (ex: HB6s), this entitlement or want for better girls comes across in how you communicate with them.

        So, you might not be putting your whole effort or genuine energy into the sarge with the HB6 and she can pick up on that. I can’t really pin-point the sub-communications itself but since girls are notoriously astute at picking up the signals than people give off, they know that the PUA is not being genuine with his desire.

        If he’s not being genuine with his desire then the PUA doesn’t really like the HB6 for “her.”

        If the PUA doesn’t really like the HB6 for her, then he only wants to use her for sex.

        If the PUA only wants to use her for sex, then her ASD goes up and hence the more defiant behavior.

        Me personally, I’m in the stage where I’m trying to move on up from that girl. It’s mainly out of the following two:

        1) It’s my mission to get more attractive girls in my life than what I was used to. If not, I’m only wasting the girls time and also my time.

        2) Early on, I led a few of the mid-level girls astray and wasn’t fully honest with them. A couple got hurt as I gave off relationship signals and were more-so when I did this after sex. I’m not proud of it but hey I was learning.

        In regards to leaving girls better than you found them. It all makes sense now. If not, you perpetuate a vicious cycle with the HB6s.

        1) PUA seduces the HB6 but isn’t honest/genuine with her. HB6 ends up being jaded/damaged (yet she still prefers assholes.)

        2) HB6 hurts or turns down nice-guy/normal-guy. She is either attracted to jerks/PUAs now or she is jaded from the “courtship” dance.

        3) Nice guy is hurt. Discovers PUA; or even worse, just discovers the meaning of “Chicks dig jerks” and goes to the dark-side.

        4) Former nice guy seduces the HB6 but isn’t honest genuine with her…

        Anyways, I should have mentioned up top. But again, props to commenter “PimpinBlueStar” for eloquently stating why the true cuties/hotties are nicer than the mid-level girl. Link and relevant quote:

        1) The hottest are actually the sweetest, when you are genuine and straight up with them. Maybe it’s a self selecting thing that the girls I go after and get i intuitively know will probably like me back as well, but I don’t get nearly the harshness, coldness or excessive testiness I get when I cold approach somwhere between a 6 and 7.5. This is the complete opposite of what I would have guessed before I had emailed cajun about this stuff and he’s totally right.

        2) Hot girls are acutely aware of the attention that they get and the power that their pussy caries, and the 6′s and 7′s know this as well. Which is why, IMO, they can be more crass and testy towards a guy (such as yourself!) who approaches and hits on them. They don’t have the clout that their hotter sisters carry, and in the back of their minds they know it. They’re probably thinking when you approach them “Ok this guy just wants to fuck me and then go after someone hotter. I’m not going to get played, so I’m just going to tell him that he’s not my type.”

        • YaReally
          on July 17, 2013 at 3:43 pm
          Original Link

          Thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis. I agree with everything you said here. Solid solid comment.

          ESP this:
          “So, you might not be putting your whole effort or genuine energy into the sarge with the HB6 and she can pick up on that. I can’t really pin-point the sub-communications itself but since girls are notoriously astute at picking up the signals than people give off, they know that the PUA is not being genuine with his desire.

          If he’s not being genuine with his desire then the PUA doesn’t really like the HB6 for “her.”

          If the PUA doesn’t really like the HB6 for her, then he only wants to use her for sex.

          If the PUA only wants to use her for sex, then her ASD goes up and hence the more defiant behavior.”

          This started happening to me and it was frustrating because they’d try to pre-emptively reject me because they could sense I wasn’t really into them, then I would get pissed at THEM because I was thinking “wtf how am I getting rejected by a girl that I didn’t even want in the first place!!! FUCK this!!”

          The cure, of course, was to simply accept that I’d moved up and should be going after girls that genuinely spark interest in me so I’m congruent. Now I can chat with average girls but I keep my game low key with them and just be friendly and they don’t hate me now lol

Days of Broken Arrows
on July 16, 2013 at 1:55 pm
Original Link

About #1: Regardless of her numerical “rank,” women do not take well to be blown off and often will shut the door permanently if you reject them.

That means the following: if you had fucked her, then mistreated her twenty different ways, you’d have a MUCH better shot now. The worst thing you can do is rebuff the advances of a woman, even if it’s out of “respect” because you know you won’t really be into her.

I can’t explain why this is, but this is the way women behave. I discovered this when FB came into being. All the girls I screwed them blew off wanted to friend me, yet the ones I didn’t take advantage of completely ignored me. You’d think it would be the other way around but it’s not.

As Shakespeare said, “Hell hath no fury…”

  • YaReally
    on July 16, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    Original Link

    “I can’t explain why this is”

    It’s perfectly logical and congruent to women-logic lol:

    • RappaccinisDaughter
      on July 17, 2013 at 9:04 am
      Original Link

      Yeah, that’s about right, although I never thought of it as a “window.” It was more like:

      “I’m dropping hints that I’m interested and…oh. He’s either not picking up on them, which means he’s not looking for hints, which means he’s not interested—or, worse, he IS picking up on them and ignoring them because he’s not interested (and now he knows I was, how embarrassing)! Well, at least I get to get out of this with my dignity intact. But now I can hardly even look at him. This is excruciating; get me out of here.”

      And then more often than not, a few hours or days or months or YEARS later, I find out he was interested all along. And then I’m wondering, “How could he possibly have missed the message? What did he want me to do, send him a registered letter?” Because to me, it felt like I was being pretty blatant, almost past the point of plausible deniability.

      • YaReally
        on July 17, 2013 at 3:34 pm
        Original Link

        These are the same feelings the orbiting Nice Guy “he’s like a brother to me” goes thru which is why he lingers in the shadows for years hoping his one-itis finally chooses him.

        Conversation between myself and the drunk friend of a girl I picked up while my girl drove us all to their place after the bar:

        Other girl: “god I wanted to fuck that guy so bad he was so hot.”

        Me: “did you talk to him?”

        OG: “?? No. But I looked RIGHT AT him. All night!! God I’m so embarrassed I must’ve looked so desperate :(

        And she said it with complete frustration and belief that THAT is all she needed to do on her end AND that the guy was a jerk/snubbed her because he didn’t notice and come say hi, AND she felt like she acted like the sluttiest slut who ever slutted by trying to make eye contact with him lol

        My red pill mind level’ed up after that conversation lol

F. Nietzsche
on July 16, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Original Link

Its rough to see your parents doing stupid things. Even more difficult when you’ve surpassed them intellectually.

  • YaReally
    on July 16, 2013 at 6:30 pm
    Original Link

    On a personal note, one of the saddest things to me is that my parents will never get to see me own a nightclub like a boss and tear down pussy and socially dominate other men and have chicks up on me etc. I left home as a shy computer nerd hermit and didnt learn game till I was a few years on my own so it would be a complete mind-fuck to witness because of how engrained “that’s OTHER people’s kid who can do that, ours is a shy computer nerd must be”. I still visit and it’s clear I’ve changed and grown confident and I can flirt with a waitress when we go catch up at dinner, but I can’t like, drag my dad out to a nightclub to watch me pull poon lol. It’s a shame to me that he probably won’t get to see what his son was capable of all those years.

on July 16, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Original Link

Email #4, something stands out for me:

“and when he goes off radar”

I started doing this to the girl I was banging and just broke up with.

One thing she mentioned many times was that I would “disappear”.

This would very often be in response to some bullshit thing she did. I later learned it was called “Soft-nexting”.

My response is “I was busy”…

She would notice the lack of attention, realize it was associated with something and go mental about the lack of control she had.

Two points:

1) when girls mention a behavior like this it means you’ve sparked attraction or the hamster is spinning

2) yes, it drives them crazy

  • YaReally
    on July 16, 2013 at 5:20 pm
    Original Link

    lol ya, NEXT’ing isn’t theory, it’s powerful as fuck and pretty consistent. It’s also what naturals and guys with options instinctively do…ie – “ehh this girl is being dramatic or annoying. I’ll txt someone else.” and legitimately putting her on a mental back-burner.

    But you can only do this when you have high value to her. You can’t Soft NEXT a chick who doesn’t see you as high value or she’ll just shrug and not care.

    Of all the PUA skills a guy can learn, how and why to Soft (and Hard) NEXT is probably the most important skill necessary for guys interested in longer term relationships because they train shit behaviors out of the girl early on when you’re setting the frame of “this is how our relationship is going to be”.

    In a rush can’t find the link now but google for blackdragon’s “how to soft next” post for details if you don’t already understand it.

on July 16, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Original Link

whoa, weird txt exchange….7 flake —> ya, with all my flakes I try to figure out how to possibly save it, rebuild value, etc.

Me: (after she said she would get back to me about a day 2….no response, no nothing…it’s been a few weeks…I just figure ‘why not, fuck it’) ….welp, this is an awkward silence. like, if you’ve been kidnapped I rly think I dropped the ball in letting the authorities kno in a timely fashion. forgive, this is a new social situation for me.
Her: (hours later) lol! hey, how are you?! It’s good to hear from you.
(no response)
Her: Anyway, I owe you an apology, and I’d like to apologize to you in person :) let me know if that’s possible this week?
(I literally raised my eyebrow at that….wtf…………going…..awwwn….perhaps initial txt was kind of butthurt, must adjust)
Me: I’ve been good. An apology?
Her: Yeah :) I was supposed to let you kno about us hanging out but I flaked like a rude bitch (I was so tired from working that day that I passed out like an old lady!) and I was just too embarrassed to say anything about it.

My reaction —>

Not sure what angle this is. I just work off worst case scenario — something better came along and fell through, now she’s trying to get back in my good graces. Act accordingly.

Me: k u did a good job, but your punishment must be moar seveaah. (this is callback humor to when I met her….just talking about Bane, etc.)
Her: ok judge bane ;) (she remembers…..hmmmmmmmmmmm….)
Me: k u must dress sexy and buy me a drink. this is fair and just.
Her: I will ;) let me know which day works for you.

we’ll see what this chick is up to………….

  • YaReally
    on July 16, 2013 at 5:40 pm
    Original Link

    You should fuck her. That’s my advice. Lol

    Also lol at the suspicious “is this a prank?” face. I was the same way at first. Like I say, you came farther faster than you expected. If I got a txt like that these days I would be like “no shit you were a dickhead. I’m married with 3 kids now but my wife got fat so we can hang out on the side.” and just assume the sale.

    Three keys here:

    1) push for the meet-up ASAP. She wants your cock and it sounds like you have a clear path if she’s being so agreeable.

    2) she might flake again. Don’t be butt-hurt, that’s fine. But shoot for a low flake risk hangout like something casual (drinks at a quiet pub that’s not out of your way where you can just flirt with the bartender if she flakes and try to bang her or build social proof for future Day 2s) on an off night VS trying to coordinate her drunk friends and your drunk friends on a Saturday night.

    I think there’s a solid chance she won’t flake again because of how embarrassed she is about doing it before. Even if she DOES flake that’s fine, it gives you a chance to practice some dominant drama teasing by giving her some playful shit about it and playing harder-to-get to meet up the next time so that she’s less likely to flake the 3rd try. This is like when you tell a girl “gimme your number” “okay” “hmmm no wait you’re drunk. You won’t even remember me tomorrow.” “Yes I will!!” “I dunno. Drunk chicks are annoying, you might not even txt me back.” “I will I promise!! Txt me right NOW!! (grabs your phone)”. She might’ve flaked on the “okay” but teasing made it solid.

    3) most important: NO SEXY TALK. You have a Day 2 lined up and you were sexual enough telling her to dress hot. Getting all seductive over txts will get her horny but trigger her ASD and likely make her flake. A little innuendo flirting is okay, but put yourself in a “we’re just hanging out, no biggie, I’m too tired to even HAVE sex” mindset. She knows you have a penis, and she’s agreed to meet up, you’ve done enough groundwork to escalate it in person to sex.

    Also fuck it, 4) Come up with a plan. Don’t tell her “I’m free Wednesday.” and expect her to fill the rest in. She’s still a girl, they don’t know how to arrange a Day 2 and are nervous too and arranging it can trigger their ASD since its admitting wanting to meet up with a guy they know will fuck them. So instead be like “I’m free Wednesday. Dust off that dress, we’re going to Pub for drinks. What time are you off work?” If she says she can’t make Wednesday you go “That’s alright. I have plans with a friend thursday so that’s no good. How about Tuesday?” (some hamster-feed with the ambiguous “friend” there) and if she still says she can’t make that either, you to “lol busy girl. We’ll try again next week.” and Soft Next till Sunday or, if you DO talk to her, just don’t try to make any plans for that week, stick to your guns so she knows “when Scray offers, I better accept.” A Soft Next is better tho because she’s already missed you so it’s cat-string to have pulled away that month then dangle in her reach now then she can’t find time for you so you pull away again till next week when you dangle again where she’ll go “okay I’d better make some time for this!!”

    Good luck. :)

    • YaReally
      on July 16, 2013 at 5:50 pm
      Original Link

      Also don’t clean your place.

      “Sorry it’s messy, I wasn’t planning to bring you back here tonight. (awwwe what a non-player, he didn’t plan this or he would’ve cleaned his room, this must be “just happening” because we have such amazing chemistry) Plus I totally thought you’d flake again. ;) (asshole!!! lol lol giggle giggle) Speaking of, I still owe you that punishment. (bow-chika wow wowww)”

      Then next time you want to bang her you just go “I cleaned my room it’s amazing come see it.” Lol

      …yes I’m messy. I like having a clean room, I just hate cleaning.

      Anyway, she wants to fuck. You have enough value. All you need is enough value to get her to show up…get her laughing then pitch the day 2. Txt her the day OF and make her laugh etc. positive vibes positive emotions etc.

      All you need is enough value for her to show up in the same room as you…from there you escalate your value in person with your awesomeness and fuck her. There’s ZERO reason you shouldn’t get the lay that night if she DOES show up, unless you run into shit logistics you didn’t plan your Day 2 around to avoid in advance. ;)

    • Scray
      on July 16, 2013 at 5:53 pm
      Original Link

      All right. That all sounds real solid. Thanks Ya and immoral.

      • YaReally
        on July 16, 2013 at 6:17 pm
        Original Link

        No prob. Let us know how it goes.

        For your internals: it would LEGITIMATELY surprise me if you didn’t have sex with her. Like, the variables going on here, to me, are a done deal in terms of whether its possible to get the lay or not.

        I wouldn’t give you shit if you didn’t get the lay, I would legitimately be like “wow really? I’m surprised. Okay let’s look at what happened and where in your game we can tighten up because that SHOULD have happened so there must be a rusty screw somewhere we need to fix.”

        So if it helps, go in with the knowledge that to an experienced PUA, this is a situation you are 100% capable of closing. :)

Captain Jack
on July 16, 2013 at 5:04 pm
Original Link

For the girls: its fine to come here and read up on your adversary but do not think for one minute our techniques have applicability to your side of the equation because they do not.

For the last girl email: be hot, be nice, do not be crazy or high maintenance. You have the easiest job of all so stop trying to over think it.

A hot girl that is feminine, not crazy, approachable and kind to all is like man crack and will get more action thrown her way then she can stand. She is also a fucking unicorn. Be the unicorn.

  • YaReally
    on July 16, 2013 at 6:05 pm
    Original Link

    “For the girls: its fine to come here and read up on your adversary but do not think for one minute our techniques have applicability to your side of the equation because they do not.”

    This isn’t entirely true. A LOT of pickup is backward engineered from what women do. Go to a strip club and you’ll find the girls making the top money with the most repeat business are the girls running negs, cat-string, group theory, push/pull, etc. Why do you think your random AFC buddy Bob has one-itis for his crush…she’s sub-consciously running game on him. Game is also backwards engineered from Natural alphas. A really good Natural and a really hot chick actually have very similar looking game.

    The catch is that this stuff generally works on betas or the average guy, or even guys who are decent with girls but not stone cold alpha players yet. So an average girl will have 20 orbiters chasing after her driving her to the bar and buying her drinks and eating their heart out over her because her game works on them, but the legit alpha she wants has too many options to chase.

    So for a girl who wants the top dog, ya, be hot, feminine and sane and cross your fingers. But for a girl who’s into a nice normal dude, our game works just fine because we stole it from them lol

    Literally one example Mystery gives is “this stripper said such and such to me and it drew me in and I thought wait why did that draw me in and I figured out it was because (insert the discovery of push/pull)”

Comment Of The Week: When It “Does Count”

Original Link

via Heartiste

the latent sadist
on July 14, 2013 at 8:11 pm
Original Link


how would you handle a girl whos been subtly hinting for a relationship…after banging 4 times over the course of a month. Havent hung in two weeks.Last exchange i was trying to get her over as usual.

Me: “lets chill tnight”

Her: “and do what” (first i’ve ever heard this)

Me: “arts and crafts”

Her: “Haha sounds fun!”

Me: “Hmmm”

Me: “So?”

Her: “Not tonight. I’ve been feeling sick lately”

Me: “*Jimmy fever eh?” (*Not my real name)

then like 45 minutes later

Her: “too bad you cant come over. im watching movies alone :/”

i try to avoid overly beta response…something neutral.

Me: “ya too bad youre not up for it”

Her: “I dont want to have sex tonight…”

Me: “And?”

Her “And what?”

Me: “Are you inviting me over…”

Her “You cant come over.”

Me: “I know right.”

I had no fuckin clue what to say so i reverted to one of my default aloof responses. Though in hindsight i wish id have not responded at all.

The deal now is, i hit her up three days later and she completely ignored me. for the first time. IBeen goin out, gaming others yada yada.

Im not opposed to giving this girl signs of provider/LTR type of guy…assuming it wouldnt be a death knell after 4 bangs in a month. Up until this blow off, shes been reliable, submissive, shes young. Treats me well…sorta scared of my opinion of her, and can be sweet about trying to please me. Doesnt stir drama up in my life. I wonder if im not giving enough beta provider signals and going too much alpha. Cant say i really know how to navigate when a girl is feeling insecure about whether you truly want her or not….to keep the legs open and the hamster spinnin.


  • Scray
    on July 15, 2013 at 8:39 pm
    Original Link

    This seems to be a matter of trying to be all terse and shit when it’s clear you’re losing value to her.

    ‘Her: “too bad you cant come over. im watching movies alone :/”
    Me: “ya too bad youre not up for it”’”

    wtf. why did you say that lol
    In this situ I’d try to trojan horse it. ‘Ya I’ll come over and we’ll just chill and talk and cuddle’ – esque. I mean, in reality……we all know what would happen when I or you went over there.

    But honestly, I would have added stuff to the arts and crafts joke (she’s already behaving strangely at that point…which means she’s uneasy)….’arts and crafts — I’ve been practicing making balloon animals but they end up kind of looking like my dick if it were pink :(

    Let’s say she says same thing ‘sounds fun!’

    ‘Ya, let’s do it like around 9?’
    ‘Not tonight, been feeling a little sick lately’
    ‘o shit….I’ll bring u chicken noodle soup, but only if you give me a nice backrub and get me pizza’

    blah blah blah. point being, just whatever it takes to get you over there. Once you’re there, you’re -in-.

    I don’t even think it’s about beta provider v. alpha…I think it’s the fact that terseness/aloof only maintains value…but you do it long enough, and they start to wonder ‘wait, why am I here again?’ So then you demonstrate all of those traits again just as a reminder. Instead of alpha alpha beta —> awesome/ aloof/ awesome.

    • the latent sadist
      on July 15, 2013 at 9:52 pm
      Original Link

      i said it because i had hit her up to chill, and it was the first time shed ever balked like that. It was uncharacteristic. I had written the evening off so when she hit me up 45 mins later with that…i thought id call her bluff. The deal is that apparantly I cant go to her home (lives w parents). I never have. Every time weve chilled has been at my place. It has never even come going to this was out of left field. I took this as her like pseudo-inviting me over…because she wants some sort of commitment reassurance. Think bout it. I hit her up to chiull after weve casually boned over a the whole month…she says for the first time “And do what?” Immediately something is up here…uncharacteristic. I took it has her indirectly trying to see if i would be willing to see her w/out the sex (never have).

      So thats why i put the onus back on her…with the “too bad you aint down”. to call her bluff. And it did call her bluff, because she blurted that she didnt want to have sex. So it was female trickery…the motivations for i have no idea. I assumed it was a test for commitment. lol what the hell else could i have actively done? Id rather have just ignored the whole thing.

      • YaReally
        on July 15, 2013 at 11:30 pm
        Original Link

        “I took it has her indirectly trying to see if i would be willing to see her w/out the sex (never have).”

        This is what’s happening.

        “feed her hamster of not being a cum dumpster at least a little — she is a person….”

        This is why it’s happening.

        “I think it’s the fact that terseness/aloof only maintains value…but you do it long enough, and they start to wonder ‘wait, why am I here again?’ So then you demonstrate all of those traits again just as a reminder. Instead of alpha alpha beta —> awesome/ aloof/ awesome.”

        This is how to fix it.

        Basic cat-string theory. You’re the string too far out of reach so the cat gives up.

        You have too much of this shit clouding your head:

        “I dunno im just reluctant to be all “aw come over and ill take care of you” blah dee blah…i dont trust her or women in general”

        You’re dying to hit the radio silence button and she can tell you’re one and a half feet out the door. She has feelings and wants to know she’s more than a fuck hole, except that she isn’t, because you have too much baggage and you’re too worried about your ego and sounding alpha and aloof instead of actually liking the girls you’re with.

        This is essentially a long-term version of Buyer’s Remorse, where you’ve made her feel like you think she’s slutty (whether you actually think that or not, she FEELS like you do) by only wanting to bang and by being aloof, so she wants to do non-sex related things to see if she’s just another cum dumpster to you.

        If you want her, you don’t have to go to her house. Just do something non sex-related, like take her out on a date somewhere or cook dinner for her or even watch movies together at your place, and just don’t shoot for sex. Even disqualify it with something like “no babe I’m too sore from working out to fool around, I just want to watch some movies. Don’t be mad that I don’t put out tonight, I can barely move lol”. She’ll either escalate things and make it obvious she wants sex toward the end of the night when she realizes you’re not making a move, or she’ll go home and not feel like you just like her for the sex and the next time you hang you’ll likely bang.

        This is a completely salvageable situation.

        Of course having gotten INTO this situation means that you’ve already fucked up because you’ve just triggered the Ultimatum Countdown, where you have X amount of time/bangs left before she gives you the “either we’re BF/GF or I can’t do this anymore, I like you too much and it hurts too bad” Ultimatum where you’ll have to either be her BF or let her go (you can still salvage things from here, but then you start getting into some “dark game” psyche warfare that runs the risk of fucking her up long-term for relationships).

        You need to look into avoiding Buyer’s Remorse and disarming LMR to avoid this situation for longer. Also remember that if you give absolutely no beta provider hints at all, she won’t categorize you as possible BF material and you can avoid this (tho that comes with its own set of problems)…but that said, also remember that it depends on the girl’s personality type. The one you’ve got sounds like a generic Good Girl type who wants to have sex within a BF/GF relationship with you VS a casual bang.

        Also your txt game is pretty weak/uncalibrated but you got blindsided and it sounds like this hasn’t happened to you before so I won’t give you too much shit.

        For reference I would’ve turned it around at either of these two points:

        “And do what?”

        This is girl-code for “you just want sex don’t you? :( ” This is the optimal time to handle this if you end up in this situ. This tells me she needs to do something that isn’t sex-related so I would drop something like:

        “I want to go see Movie. Come with me.”

        or “I’m cooking us dinner.” (you can just order a pizza lol)

        or “lets go for a walk, there’s an awesome place I want to show you.”

        I would skip bars/drinking (like “let’s go out for a drink” because that = sex).

        And calibrating to her personality type, I would probably also know to throw in a sex disqualifier like “no sex tonight, I’m exhausted. I just want to hang out, haven’t seen you in a while.” or something that’s semi-ambiguous but hints that I might see her as more than a lay.

        If I fucked up and didn’t clue in and ended up at the second point:

        “I’m feeling sick”

        I would do what Scray said and tell her I’m bringing her soup (note I wouldn’t ask if she wants me to, I would tell her that’s what’s happening). If I didn’t want to risk a run-in with her parents I would either have her sneak me in to watch movies and eat soup together (then wait for her to initiate banging while we cuddle and she’s surprised I’m not making a move). Or I’d be a romantic baws and leave the soup on her doorstep and txt her to go look outside and head home lol. Score a jillion “awwwe” points for that one.

        Note that this is al beta gayness behavior, BUT also note that you’re only in this situ because you fucked up and let it get TO this situ…and the more down the fucked up path you let it get, the more beta you have to be to salvage it, and the more beta you have to be to salvage it the sooner you’re going to run into The Ultimatum which will generally end things.

        So yes, YaReally’s a big homo telling you to bring her soup and not escalate, but note that the responses to her first signal (“and do what”) are more alpha. It’s just a matter of how fucked the situation is.

        You’re dying to do radio silence because you don’t know how to recover and you can tell that the ways TO recover will involve being beta/lame and your ego has an Identity built around not acting beta and basically you would have to shit on your Identity…plus the general baggage toward women you’ve built up.

        I’m not saying any of that is necessarily a bad thing. I’m just telling you 3 + 1 = 4 so if you have 3 and want to get 4, you need to add 1. If you don’t want 4, that’s alright too…but understand that the formula is completely solvable, as long as adding that 1 in there is something you’re willing to do.

        • the latent sadist
          on July 16, 2013 at 1:52 pm
          Original Link

          ppreciate it. First thing thats most relavant here is that

          1.) she didnt reply three days later when i texted her after this exchange

          2.) last night i called her up. She answered quickly, and said she was mini golfing w family, she started blabbing to someone else and then returned and said can i call you back. which she didnt. lol retarded biznatch. so if you still maintain that this be salvagable…ok.

          ya for sure im willing to get the formula right haha thats why i write here. I agree its uncalibrated, and yes i agree bout the ego thing and i accept that im at that stage in my game. ALways improving. I will take your word on most things youve written, however i have to tell you this girl is not a chaste good girl. Shes had 10+ partners and shes 19. So initially when we started banging it out, i completely catagorized her as Non LTR. Plus she had a bf, who she ultimately dumped to hook up w me. Soo after she dumped him i started seeing these hints and signs of wanting more….and macho ego aside.. it was pretty flattering/endearing. Im a man what can i say…shed write me that she was thinkin bout me…and one time she was drunk but she like profusely apologized that she couldnt hang because she was w her sisters who she never sees…”Please dont be upset!”. Lol cmon…thats hard not to like. Shes so young and the age difference is such that i feel mega alpha to her lol. So while i agree with what you’re saying about ego-protection, i feel like there may be merit in my hesitancy since she is def kind of a slut.

          It sounds contradictory and i guess it is, since im writing bout how to handle it. I guess it comes down to what i want….and what i want(like any other guy) is a fuckin steady sexual outlet i can rely on and a reasonably low amount of drama. Would be nice to cruise the summer with a main girl, and this situation aside…id have no problems letting her be the main. Like i posted above somewhere, this is (as we all know) just female prerogative creating this situation…nothing legit changed on my end…not even my game…to my detriment, at the moment. So yes of course im willing to calibrate, but my distrust sort of toys w my judgement.

          • YaReally
            on July 16, 2013 at 2:36 pm
            Original Link

            If she’s had 10 partners at 19 then her BF might’ve called her a slut etc when she dumped him and/or she had some life changing girl-talk with her friend or just came to her own conclusion that she doesn’t want to be viewed/used like a slut anymore.

            This is pretty common too. It’s like a redemption thing, to see if she can get a guy to like her for something other than sex.

            Usually this is where girls will start acting this way and go run off and force themselves to date a Nice Guy. If she does this, she’ll let you know (usually in the form of an Ultimatum threat like “well you don’t want to date me and he does so…”), so you can’t just assume it. I call this “boyfriending up” and wish her the best and go radio silent (not the same as going radio silent now when you aren’t sure what’s going on…this is a calculated move AFTER she tells me she’s trying a different guy). Not surprisingly, she dumps him for being boring and not making her gina tingle, sometimes even before they’ve had sex lol so I get a 2am drunk “hey” txt within a year (usually just a few months) and escalate that to sex.

            So it’s possible she met a Nice Guy to date but I doubt it because she didn’t say that to you. If she DOES, wish her luck and go silent and you’ll probably hear from her again.

            But if she doesn’t, then just assume its still on. But you waited for her to reply to basically “want to come be a slut I don’t respect and be used for sex?” Wtf is she going to reply to that lol. And then you called at an inopportune time and she had to hang with her family.

            I would’ve txted/called her at night when you know she’s in her room alone in bed instead of the middle of the day where there’s interrupts. So keep that in mind for next time. I do most of my txting of new girls past 9pm on weeknights when they’re winding down for the night.

            But now that you’ve dug a hole, txting her this weekend is tricky because she’s going to assume you’re just trying to line up a booty call for after the bar unless you voluntarily give up a Fri/Sat night at the bar to go do something date-like/boyfriendy with her where it’s not “I’m out drinking with my bros and need to get laid so I look cool, come get drunk so I can bang you and high-five them” lol

            If you don’t eat to give up a Fri/Sat night, or if she has plans which at 19 there’s a good chance she does, I’d say just go radio silent from now till like, Monday. Then Monday night when she’s in bed, txt her and try to arrange hanging out the way I described before (do something gay and date-like for like Wednesday or Thursday, and disqualify yourself in advance from having sex that night (you might still end up having it, you’re just working around her ASD right now)).

            She might be done with you, it might be too late, but if she’s answering your calls/txts at all, that’s still a green light to me. She wouldn’t pick her phone up when she’s out mini golfing if you were a smelly gross homeless person lol

            So this is still salvageable to me…there are just a lot of dynamics at work and you’re in the Danger Zone that I try to avoid ending up in because of how complicated it can be to get out of it. But trust game logic…her ASD is being triggered right now, so you just need to disarm it.

            Also fix your internal thought loops. Your default headspace is “has she rejected me yet? How about now? Is it over yet? I think I’m shot down. She must be over me. Of course she’s over me. This is hopeless, look, she didn’t even txt me back, that’s done, can I move on yet? It’s too damaging to my ego/identity to keep trying on a girl who isn’t jumping to suck my dick immediately, I can’t handle embarrassing myself by not instantly NEXT’ing a girl who isn’t 100% responsive”. It comes thru in your writing.

            You want a headspace of “of COURSE she still loves me. Silly girl is just playing hard to get cause I messed up a bit. Why WOULDN’T she want me, that’s crazy. She can TRY to resist me but that’s futile on her end, it’s cute that she’d even try NOT to want me…I’m awesome, of course she still wants me. I’ll just crack this code and practice some new shit out and she’ll be chasing my cock all over again.”

            Here’s a Julien video on persistence, especially describing getting an unresponsive girl on the phone…but DON’T use that on your girl, don’t txt her “such a slut” lol, you’ll sabotage this. Just listen to his mindset of how basically none of the rejection shit is relevant to him or phases him:

            This one too, again look at his mentality not his actual words…”i suck at life. I take dildos up the ass. I’m going to kill myself.” “What??” “Hi, I’m Julien. :) ” Zero fucks given on whether he sounds beta or not, he just knows all he needs is to get her paying attention and alone and it’s on. So don’t tell your girl you’re going to kill yourself lol, but take this mentality of “all I have to do is get her on the phone or to respond to my txts. Then all I have to do I get her to meet up for any reason. Then all I have to do is get her alone somehow. Then it’s on.”:

on July 15, 2013 at 8:32 am
Original Link

So how is it that guys here actually believe that prettier (naturally or media) women are less promiscuous as a group? This has not been my observation at all. In my observation, the saying is true that there is no such thing as a single girl…

Every pretty girl I know who isn’t a virgin or extremely church/temple/ile under a protected head, is shagging someone. If it’s not you this week, it’s someone else.

Maybe it’s just that pretty girls get away with lower levels and therefore have more “doesn’t count” experiences than less pretty girls who have to put out at higher levels and/or appreciate their experiences more.

  • YaReally
    on July 15, 2013 at 11:45 pm
    Original Link

    “So how is it that guys here actually believe that prettier (naturally or media) women are less promiscuous as a group?”

    They’re fucking guys, but they tend to fuck the same guys over and over. ie – she’s banging her ex or a casual FB she’s had for a while.

    The hottest girls tend to be the most disappointed by guys, so they don’t WANT to suck random possible-losers’ dicks every weekend. Their Hypergamy makes them crave the top guys, so the 50 dudes a night that approach them and come off lame as shit get no poon while she txts her ex to hook up after the bar, because for him to BE her ex means that at some point he was high enough value to get her…so while she wants better/new, she can’t trade down only up, and will fuck him until she meets someone higher value.

    Of course the wannabe-alpha at the bar stumbling over his words isn’t going to treat her as insignificant as her ex who dumped her is, so naturally she ends up going back to her ex or whoever more than she’d like.

    The funny/sad part is that every time she fucks that ex, she regrets it…but she needs sex and she doesn’t have a better option because you (the metaphorical guy reading this) didn’t approach her at the bar with some solid game and attract her. :)

Dan And Nadine

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 12, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Original Link

OMG FIRST!!!! lol

This is totally how solid AMOGing comes off. In that friendly way where the guy CAN’T punch him, he’s complimenting his shot etc, but he’s out-alpha’ing him and making him react to him and the girls CHOOSE him.

That’s the key. Is making the girl CHOOSE you. If you hit on her and she rejects you and you keep going, her orbiter can punch you and rescue her and she might bone him. If you’re just cooler than him and trigger her Hypergamy and she’s choosing you, he CAN’T hit you because 1) he can instinctively sense it won’t get him the girl because she likes you, just like you can’t just punch a husband and walk off with his doting wife, and 2) he’s still secretly hoping that down the road she’ll realize he’s better than “those jerks” and will come around but knows she won’t if he punches out the guy she likes.

So he sucks it up, mutters a “yeah thanks… :( ” as he watches it all play out in front of him, and goes off to “make a phone call”.

This is how it plays out in real life. Even with your big scary MMA buddy.

  • YaReally
    on July 12, 2013 at 12:47 pm
    Original Link

    No first. :’(

    Also for Scray when you read this here’s that 30 day challenge breakdown:

    Have a good weekend all. Go try to get slapped by some chicks lol While you’re reading this, they’re getting their hair and nails done hoping to get laid tonight.

    • immoralgables
      on July 12, 2013 at 1:00 pm
      Original Link

      YaReally thanks for that write-up. It completely captured my mind-state after the 30 day challenge and it still does.

      I eject too early in sets where it’s going my way. And its a lot related to what you said, where my external game increased before my internals could catch up.

      I really took to hear the message about “Just manning up”. That’s the final barrier for me in these situations where my lack of history getting cute girls (on a consistent basis, not talking about the gfs I had where I got lucky or was at the right place and right time). It’s time just to fucking do it. That’s the only thing holding me back.

      • YaReally
        on July 12, 2013 at 1:03 pm
        Original Link

        The thing to keep in mind, and actually the lesson of this article too, is:

        If you don’t reach out and take what you want…sooner or later, someone else is going to want it.

        Good luck this weekend. :)

    • Scray
      on July 12, 2013 at 1:48 pm
      Original Link

      yaaaaaaaa…….thanks a lot. what’s strange is that you were telling me about my internals, and these last few times when I’ve been out….that’s exactly what I’ve kind of done. I mean it hasn’t been conscious ‘work on your inner game!’ It’s been like ‘maaaan phuck it, why put so much pressure on everything? Just take it one step at a time. Talk to chicks to shoot the shit, if it goes somewhere, it goes somewhere….if not, there’s lots more.’

      And I think I’m just in an awkward place b/c I can’t rely as much on the uggos anymore, but it’s not like I’m just making the hot girls explode with attraction instantly. So, for example, that hot girl in the heels….she had an uggo friend and a gigantor (like 6′ tall, srs) friend. Both of them were just hardcore active cockblocks.

      That thing about going out alone is so reassuring to hear, srs.

      I guess I’ll start trying to do some daygame.

      • immoralgables
        on July 12, 2013 at 2:04 pm
        Original Link

        Scray-dawg. Looks like we’re kind of stuck in the twilight zone lol.

        The HB6s and below know you subconsciously aren’t that attracted to them and are somewhat bitchy. Beyond that you yourself knows that you don’t want them that bad.

        The HB7s and up are harder to game and I think this will be a longer, arduous process to get up there and start seducing them successfully.

        It’s like if you’re in a pharmaceutical company where you’re selling a product competing against 499 other drug reps. If you start out the year in #487 out of 500, it’s relatively easy to put in the work and get to the number #200 spot. Getting into the top twenty is much, much harder.

        • YaReally
          on July 12, 2013 at 2:45 pm
          Original Link

          If it makes you guys feel any better, eeeeeevery PUA goes through this stage. And it’s exactly as frustrating as it feels lol…you pass that threshold where banging <6 just isn't an option anymore, like you couldn't force yourself to do it even with a gun to your head.

          But you're still chickenshit to go after the top girls AND there aren't as many 8+ chicks out there AND they're surrounded by more obstacles etc. so it's like "fuck, this feels harder and I've burned the boats on sailing back to the easy shit" lol

          Your only option is to wallow in frustration and misery, or sack up and tell yourself you won't leave the bar without approaching the 3 hottest girls there even if they shoot you down or the logistics are terrible.

          Also this is where you have to learn to enjoy the process like Scray mentions in his reply…like you have to have fun in approaching in general and going out and goofing around with people and making friends etc because if you only focus on the result, you're going to be in too shitty/needy a headspace to GET the result you want.

          Tyler describes this as "I just go out and fuck around and have fun, spin some girls, try to kiss them, laugh with my buddies, and by the end of the night there's just a hot girl up on me." Sure you can still apply conscious strategy and all that, which is important to improving (you don't go to the gym and just randomly fling heavy things around a random number of times), but you should take joy in the process itself and have fun.

          Also keep in mind that passing into this twilight zone means that you're progressing…your internals will no longer accept scraps. They think "no, we deserve better than this." So now your externals have to catch up to the internals. It's always this constant battle between the two lol but down the road the difference between them becomes smaller and smaller till you get to be someone like Russell Brand or Robbie Williams or Clooney where his internal sense of entitlement matches his external game.

          • YaReally
            on July 12, 2013 at 2:50 pm
            Original Link

            Also this:

            “Also this is where you have to learn to enjoy the process like Scray mentions in his reply…like you have to have fun in approaching in general and going out and goofing around with people and making friends etc because if you only focus on the result, you’re going to be in too shitty/needy a headspace to GET the result you want.”

            …is part of how I can tell who actually gets hot girls and who doesn’t when ePlayers talk big. Because if you hate people and hate socializing and it oozes out of you that approaching is work to you and that you think other people are beneath you and a waste of your time and girls are all cunts and bitches and guys are all assholes and chumps and bars are stupid and bouncers are dicks and women are sluts and EE girls are better and–

            …you just aren’t banging hot girls. Sorry. You can talk yourself up all you want and maybe you fluked into a pretty hot girl once by sheer luck or know one from high school you grew up with. But you aren’t regularly dating and banging them or even out partying with them. Because they don’t want to be around guys like that…no one DOES except other guys like that.

on July 12, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Original Link

Perfect post for the field report I have now.

Went out last night, and ran into two of my buddies, who are unfortunately both complete betas. But I joined them in hanging out with this group of what appeared at first to be three couples at one of the booths. But, one of the girls seemed to take a strong liking to me, notwithstanding the dude who almost constantly had his arm draped around her. The most attractive girl in the group was very outgoing and energetic, and she also seemed to be interested, although not quite as strongly. (The last girl was least attractive, and moreover showed little interest in me, so she’s irrelevant to the story.) I chatted up the girl who liked me most strongly and the arm-draper, hit it off with them, and then at some point, the girl got her phone out for pictures and asked me to take a picture of her and the arm-draper — which she emphasized as her “friend”. Ohhhh… burn. And Arm-draper didn’t seem to notice. I had her text a cool photo that she took of me to my phone, and got her number. She also gave me her full name and showed me her Twitter on her phone.

We bounced to two different venues before splitting for the night — one of my beta buddies left early, as he always does — during which time my other buddy confirmed that Arm-draper and the girl were not a couple, but that they “cuddled a lot”. At the last place, my other beta buddy got a pizza and shared it with the group, with the girls saying, “oh, you’re so niiice!” and that kind of thing. Arm-draper did once refer to the girl who liked me as his “girlfriend”.

Meanwhile, I and the other energetic girl, who is into fitness and lifts weights a lot, had some armwrestling matches with others in the group — I beat everybody, and the energetic girl was pretty surprised. She just then made it clear that the dude she had on her arm was not her boyfriend either — her real boyfriend was coming to give them rides soon. She appeared anxious to know if I was going to hang out with them tomorrow evening too, and since her phone was dead, I had her put her number in my phone.

So, it would appear, at least going by this experience last night, that beta cuddle-bitches, as opposed to real boyfriends, are much more common than I realized. I got home with two numbers and an invite to hang with them again.

  • immoralgables
    on July 12, 2013 at 1:14 pm
    Original Link

    Nice work Corvinus. So in your FR you had glaring, vocalized examples that the beta “bfs” were nothing more than white-knight arm candy for the girls.

    Over time, you will start to become much more in-tune with your PUA senses in picking up when a BF is not a BF. It won’t be so blatantly obvious and you’ll be able to tell through body-language and through the social dynamics of how he regards him.

    But, in the field, if you do run up to a guy who tries to act as the girls bf because he can sense you’re making a move and she might for it; or if he’s just being the protector. Here are some lines you might want to try.

    “Aw that’s so cute, he’s like your older overly protective brother. Can I pay you to go out with my sister tomorrow to make sure no guys hit on her?”

    “Boyfriend and girlfriend? Niccccce. I thought you two were brother and sister. How long have you been dating?”
    (If they hesitate to answer or give each other that eye contact like ‘What’s the right answer here?’, start busting on them and teasing them for being bad liars.”

    Stuff like that.

    • YaReally
      on July 12, 2013 at 1:34 pm
      Original Link

      These days I prefer to go thru the girl to avoid confrontation.

      ie – when I know she’s attracted, I’ll drop an “I don’t think your boyfriend here would approve of all this flirting, lady” like I’m scolding her.

      If its her boyfriend she’ll go quiet and he’ll laugh that I’m calling out the elephant in the room and I just laugh about it and make friends with the guy and back off on her.

      But if she’s attracted and he’s not her BF (or sometimes even if he is but he’s out of earshot and she’s looking for better lol), she’ll INSTANTLY go “who him?? Oh no!! He’s not my boyfriend we’re just friends!!” and make it blatantly clear, even as you hear the sound of his heart breaking, that he’s not competition.

      It’s a done deal from there, there’s NOTHING he can do about it because again, she CHOSE you. You didn’t sneakily trick her or anything, you just called the situ out for clarification and she gave you her answer.

      Doesn’t matter how long they’ve known eachother, whether they used to date, what he says about their relationship, what you’ve heard in the rumor mill, none of that means shit. She’s given you the green light and you found the info you need in a low-risk way.

  • Scray
    on July 12, 2013 at 2:28 pm
    Original Link

    I’m getting to the point where I can spot couples vs. non-couples and beta orbiter vs. alpha/natural friend.

    The coolest thing to do when you’re talking to a hot girl and her beta orbiter friend comes and sits down is to immediately ask “so are you guys together?” Make them verbalize that shit. Bonus points if the girl laughs in response — for you, I mean.

    This does a lot of things — most of which the beta orbiter remains unaware of. First, it seems to establish that you’re playing on the arena floor — I am a potential suitor or nothing at all. Like, when/if you get shot down later, the beta thinks ‘yaaaa nice, that fool is done’ because he doesn’t realize that he isn’t even in the game — he’s a spectator in the stands. Difference?

    You see the girl again, and you can play again — he really can’t play without some HUGE hail mary maneuvers.

    It’s awesome that you’re going out. Eventually, maybe we can start all tossing experimental routines/ideas back and forth to try out in the field

    • YaReally
      on July 12, 2013 at 2:33 pm
      Original Link

      Ya, in that situ I address the guy just incase it’s her BF to show respect but in a way that if he’s not her BF I get my same “oh he’s just my friend!!” result:

      “Oh sorry man, is this your girlfriend? My bad, dude I didn’t realize you two were dating.”

      If he’s her BF, he likes me because I showed respect and backed off when he arrived. If he’s her orbiter, she’ll go “oh no no this is just my friend!” and I have a green light, the brightness of which blocks out the sight of his poor heart shattering into a thousand pieces behind his sad smile lol.

on July 12, 2013 at 1:23 pm
Original Link

I’ll just leave this here:

on July 12, 2013 at 1:33 pm
Original Link

although i suck at approaching, IOI`s are starting to light up as well as AI` hopefully when I moveout of the shithole I am in I will have better

in other news
I was chatting up a gal at the wrong side of 30 when she broached the subject of fifty shades of grey and how she red the reviews and never read the book( yeah right lol). Peerantly she just used theord”sex” and my mind goes damn old school “If a girl talks about sx , shes thinking of fucking you”

  • YaReally
    on July 12, 2013 at 1:44 pm
    Original Link

    “mmm you HAVEN’T read it? That’s a shame. I like women who are sexually adventurous…everyone is always so worried about being prim and proper. I like when a woman is confident enough to let down her hair and leave her insecurities at the door so we can explore all our kinky fantasies.”

    She’ll either be turned off and stick to her guns in which case I’ll tease her with stuff like “You’re not a starfish in bed, are you? Just laying back and expecting the man to do all the work? I don’t get that vibe from you at all…I bet you’re actually a lot of fun, but you’re picky about who you have sex with. I bet most guys you meet disappoint you, don’t they? That’s alright, some people would call you a bitch for that, but I look at it as just having standards.”

    Then I’ll go into stuff like “Why are you so reserved about sex? We’re you raised in a strict household? I find a lot of people are ashamed to admit they like or even HAVE sex and it’s always a shame to me…life is so much more fun when we embrace our natures.”

    She’ll turn around eventually lol. I can go on like this for hours to warm her up. Of course after all this I would pull back and talk about normal non-sexual topics…I’ve shown I can cross the line and taken her out of her comfort zone, but I don’t need to stay across that line, because I’ll be back over it when I want to and I know it, so lets to back to comfort.

    And if instead of sticking to her guns, she qualifies herself after my first bit, and is like “oh well I WANT to read it I just haven’t gotten around to it!”, that’s her qualifying herself to me and changing her values to reflect mine which means she wants to have sex so I’ll drop some of the same “people are so ashamed to talk about sex and admit they enjoy it, it’s a shame to me” stuff but with this response I’ll head toward comfort-building sooner. And then again pull away and lighten the mood back.

    Either way, she’ll make sure she’s around me when it’s time to go home. :)

on July 12, 2013 at 2:14 pm
Original Link

Am I the only one who feels like there’s a missing punchline here? I keep waiting for CH to drop the other shoe with an update…especially given that enigmatic last paragraph. It reads like the voiceover introduction to a true-crime story…”Nightmare Next Door” or something similar.

  • YaReally
    on July 12, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    Original Link

    No, that’s partly the point. In the end, for most people shit will work out alright. It might not be amazing, it might not be the best they dreamed for themselves, but they’ll be okay and convince themselves that what they have is enough and they didn’t really want more anyway.

    It’s like in Hitch:

    Alex “Hitch” Hitchens: He’d be interested… but he would see that there was no way of possibly making her realize, that he was for real.
    Sara: Ah… he could be funny, and charming, and refreshingly original.
    Alex “Hitch” Hitchens: Wouldn’t help.
    Sara: Don’t ya hate it when that happens?
    Alex “Hitch” Hitchens: Not really… they’d probably both lead the lives they were headed toward, and my guess is… they’d do just fine. It’s a pleasure to have met you, Sara Melas.

    The whole point of game, really, is that if you WANT more and you WANT to control your destiny and your life, here are the tools and support network to help you learn to do that.

    If you don’t, well, I hope things work out for you…you’ll probably do just fine. Human beings have gotten by on “just fine” for thousands of years. But “just fine” isn’t enough for some of us, that’s all.

The Ideal Destination For The Single White Man

Original Link

via Heartiste

Four Aces
on July 11, 2013 at 11:12 am
Original Link

Hasn’t roosh written that Ukraine is pretty awful for cold-approach? I understood Russia was supposed to be much better.

  • Anonymous
    on July 11, 2013 at 12:07 pm
    Original Link

    Sadly true. Cold approaching is harder than anywhere in the USA in terms of the number who will coldly assume it’s OK to ignore a man and keep walking. You have to spit game more there. Married women can really be cold. They are super loyal to husbands and often feel they don’t even need to talk to another man.

    This is how traditional conservative countries apparently are. At least you can be more sure the wife you get won’t want to talk to other men so much.

    • YaReally
      on July 11, 2013 at 1:44 pm
      Original Link

      “At least you can be more sure the wife you get won’t want to talk to other men so much.”

      Whew, that’s reassuring. For a minute there I was worried I’d have to strive to grow and become a quality man that has higher value in her eyes than other men to keep her. I’m so glad I can continue to be a value-taking insecure piece of shit lurking in the shadows like Gollum coddling my preciousssssss…lol

      • immoralgables
        on July 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm
        Original Link


        Off-tangent but do you have anything similar to RSD’s The Blueprint Decoded that you may recommend. I finished it up (the audiotapes) last week and it was excellent.

        I’m looking for something similar to compliment my half hour commutes to and from work.

        • YaReally
          on July 11, 2013 at 5:08 pm
          Original Link

          Man, props on making it thru Blueprint lol. There isn’t much out there that goes as deep into psychology and social dynamics/conditioning than Blueprint. I loved it, but it’s definitely not mandatory for learning pickup, it’s for the analytical types who just enjoy delving in deep.

          On a side note, if you liked it, listen to it again in 6 months or a year. If you’ve been progressing, you’ll find you take new things out of it that weren’t relevant to you the first time you listened to it. I watch it like once a year and still find new things where I’m like “ohhh ya, shit, I get that, that’s like that thing I ran into earlier this year that I hadn’t run into before…”

          Most other seminars are highly game focused, but if you don’t mind getting your audio off YouTube I recommend basically everything on the RSD YouTube channels (RSDTyler, RSDJulien, RSDBrad, RSDfreetour, julienfreetour, etc.). Also there are some good seminars at the “21 Convention” on YouTube, but the topics vary pretty wildly so you kind of have to figure out what topic you want to listen to because they talk about more than just pickup, like lifestyle and health and exercise and making money etc.

          RSD Foundations is good and Julien’s Manifesto on YouTube both basically cover all you need for outer-game. But like I say, I’m a big fan of the free content RSD is putting out lately.

          Oh and Brad from RSD just put out a program (Evolutions), but I haven’t listened to it so I’m not sure what it’s like…I don’t really relate to Brad’s vibe (or Alexanders), but if those guys click for you it could be worth checking out.

          Also the oldschool Mystery Method DVDs are on YouTube (search for “Mystery Method – Volume 1 Part 1″ and go from there) and they’re as solid as they ever were…even tho the tech/routines are a little dated, the concepts underlying them are solid. On that same note, David DeAngelo’s Double Your Dating is a good seminar too.

on July 11, 2013 at 1:38 pm
Original Link


99% of the guys who move there will be just as unattractive to women and unable to get or keep a quality woman there as they are here, except the girls will hide that from them for the guy’s money.

Put me in a room with you and your lovely non-slutty new EE wife and she’ll be fucking me in the bathroom while you go gather her “allowance” you pay her to keep her around.

Some guys might not be bothered by that. If you’re 50+ and you suck shit with girls and have a bunch if money to burn an don’t care that she wouldn’t be with you in any other circumstances, cool, have a blast. Dig your head in the sand and enjoy the pussy.

But if you’re young, try fixing yourself first. It’ll do more for your life overall in the long run. “Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.”

Like John H says above, everywhere has hot high-quality girls. They just don’t show up on bitter Manosphere guys’ radar because they couldn’t get them. They’re literally invisible to them because it’s outside of their reality to approach them…all they see is the fatties and damaged girls because if they had to get a girl they know and resent that those shitty girls would be what they’d have to select from.

“Well there’s MORE in EE!!”

Doesn’t matter. Most of the guys moving there for the women will end up with mangled-tooth bipolar psychos unless they pay for better. Roosh wasn’t banging 10s out there lol. Guaranteed he wasn’t taking down or even approaching the hottest chicks he saw. A damaged 7 with bad teeth in EE is still damaged 7 with bad teeth.

“But it’s less WORK! I’d rather be surrounded by a dozen girls and beta men, than have to fend off 10 guys for the one hot girl”

It’s only work when you suck at it. Better lock that EE girl in your basement for the next 20 years to keep her away from your competition lol

Anyway, move there if you guys want. But move there because you’re interested in the culture and the language and like to travel, not because you think you’ll be slaying 10/10 poon.

  • YaReally
    on July 11, 2013 at 2:40 pm
    Original Link

    Just as a follow-up, you guys understand that PUAs run bootcamps in EE countries right?

    Like is that not common knowledge that RSD instructors fly across the world and visit all these prized little “beautiful innocent good girl” havens you guys jack off to? And they fuck the girls there just like they do here. Because they’re still girls and they still want to fuck attractive guys.

    Like read this again and try to fully take in: the madonnas do not exist in EE anymore than they exist here. That is an illusion, propagated by guys who can’t get quality pussy in North America. Your amazing EE fantasy woman will suck dick in the clubs just like your hated American women, if the right stimulus is presented to her.

    If EE girls were too proper and respectable and had morals so high they were harder to bang, RSD wouldn’t keep flying instructors out to run bootcamps and fuck women and help the men there fuck women because it wouldn’t be profitable and their reputation would tank.

    This should be such a huge slap in the brain to the EE-chasers but I know they’ll rationalize common sense logic away to keep their fantasy world together. Can’t convince a guy his one-itis is silly, especially when he has one-itis for an entire continent lol

on July 11, 2013 at 3:55 pm
Original Link

Bloody hell!
As some of you probably know already-I am actually from Ukraine!

You could not be more wrong.Honest.
Ukrainian men are extremely unhappy,the country has one of the HIGHEST divorce rates in the world (check the UN stats). And the reason is -women.
The balls cutting happend in Ukraine long before the west-together with the communism.

The country is not exactly poor.The average salary is about 400 euros for large cities.Ok,its not Switserland or even Poland but the point is -THE HOT GIRLS ARE WELL TAKEN CARE OF.Since there are quite a lot of rich people in Ukraine (those who s been there might have seen unproportional amount of expensive vehicles on ukrainian streets),real HBs 8+ are not for you guys.

Now,all the matchmaking logistics there is designed to milk a beta.And fucking with alphas does not really happen neither.Once a girl turns 18 she just skips the alphas and go on serial dating/marriage spree.Serial dating and marriage is CONSIDERED NORMAL there.Unless ofcourse she is a traditional religious chick from the countryside in the west-but you dont want those,they are too much into religion.
Also women apparently think its alright for them to work on “multiple projects simultaneously”(=cheating),while a man has no right.

You will bever have ONS there neither.

Its all about how much money you’ve got and how much energy you are ready to invest in that boring,anorexic,brown haired Yulia/Natasha/Tanya.

So basically the dating scene has all the disadvantages of the West (except the fact the the girls take care of their appearance in Ukraine more),WITHOUT the advantages (ONS,the alpha rights to pussy and so on).

I live in London now and I am much happier in terms of women than when in Ukraine.And I fuck here much more without spending much.
Ok,in Ukraine I could throw in their face my status which does not impress chikcs here..but I just hated this ukrainian is mambo jumbo before the sex,all this soul sucking and money draining,all the constant lying and cheating,all this passive attidude to men/life and so on.

And the sex with a Ukrainian btw is terrible too.Boring,selfish,passionless.Always feel like you ve been married for 20 years.

From what I can tell the marriages and men are actually better off in the west I live.I am 30 now and I can tell you-a lot of my peers in Ukraine who got married are either divorced or very very unhappy.The courts in Ukraine are very matriarchal,in 99% of cases children are given to women,properties are split.

Russia and Ukraine actually have the manosphere too.One of the most famous sites I guess is the “antibitch” forum ( .

And guess what-they complain exactly of the same things you complain here- matriarchate, manipulations, beta male society and so on.Dont believe me,ask this guy-

Seriously,a woman is a woman is a woman.Stop feeding yourself some fantasies of a country where women are like in 19 century.

  • YaReally
    on July 11, 2013 at 5:14 pm
    Original Link

    “And guess what-they complain exactly of the same things you complain here- matriarchate, manipulations, beta male society and so on.”

    Oh, weird. It’s almost like there isn’t a magical utopia over there. It’s almost like women are women, all around the world.

    But hey, don’t tell these guys…I mean, what would they have to look forward to if they didn’t think there was gold at the end of the rainbow? They’d have to shake their heads out of their fantasy dream and actually work on learning game.

    Like I say, an unattractive guy here is an unattractive guy there…except that there your money is worth more so they’ll hide their disgust for you better. But they’ll still be fucking assholes like me on the side…don’t worry, I’ll have left her covered in jizz early enough for her to have dinner on the table for you when you get home to keep up your fantasy. :)

    • Jay in DC
      on July 11, 2013 at 7:34 pm
      Original Link

      Real talk YaReally, I read you. Here, but nowhere else. You have the alpha and the game. But… are women the same “over there” as here? Are you sure? Have you BEEN over there? Don’t talk shit on things you do not understand sorry brah… Let me break it down for you a different way you can understand as you strike me as a younger swinging dick. If you have game for American bitches you will be like a fucking mesmerizing sorceror in some foreign nations. Roosh V… does he look like a young Brad Pitt to you?

      The whole EE thing is not some magical utopia goofy kid. It is like this… Your exert work (X) to score pussy (Y), and the pool of hot women who are not total feminized cunts and somewhat approachable is (Z). Algebra, did you pass it American Education? Unsure… If X*Y=Z You have Americunts let us say…. If X*Y=Zⁿ (where N is a factor between 2 and 4, depending on the EE country). Did you pass algebra pretty boy? If so, you just squared, cubed, etc. your pussy gain for the same amount of work. Sorry but you are dead fucking wrong on this.

      That being said, HOWEVER, I don’t understand the love for Ukies being expressed here. I live in DC as you may have guessed. There was a time when EEs flooded this place, and there are still some here though nothing like the Golden Age of Hot EE Pussy from like 2003-2009 or so. Ukranian women are not so different than russians. If they are city girls, they are ruthless mercenaries looking for a payday, like their Russian counterparts. Country girls, different animal. Poles, Hungarians, and Slovaks are much less wordly in my experience. Czech girls are just like Ukes. Prague is like NYC now…

      tl;dr version- if you don’t have passport stamps, shut the fuck up.

      • YaReally
        on July 12, 2013 at 12:36 am
        Original Link

        Here’s an algebraic formula for you:

        If you have no game (X) and you surround yourself by any number of beautiful women (Y*n2) and you factor in the fact that you complain and whine like a bitch (B) you get:

        X*(Y*n2)*B = you are still a big vagina and will simply be able to get rejected by hotter women than you get rejected by here

        I forgot to factor in variable Q, which is defined by “you are still a low man on the totem pole and her Hypergamy will still force her to cheat on you when she comes in contact with a better man, a better man being ALL OTHER MEN because you took the easy route of buying desperate pussy instead of becoming an attractive man”.

        Man, who knew math class would come in so handy?

        • Anonymous
          on July 12, 2013 at 2:50 am
          Original Link

          You are thinking like a feminist YaReally in that you’re being an absolutist (as usual) about your prejudices in order to make a good point that’s getting old already. You love shaming the exact mentalities the feminists want to shame.

          There is nothing wrong with the mathetical explanation that a man is better off where the ratio of hot women to men is better and where feminism has taken less hold. It doesn’t matter how alpha you are. You always come across like the challenge is more important to you than the selection. Sure, feminists are more of a challenge, but some guys would be nauseated in the presence of a woman who thinks Obamacare is great. They aren’t betas because American leftoids nauseate them. I understand you’re a liberal politically. Obviously, you are OK sleeping with others of your kind.

          Do you have some sort of local RSD franchise and you don’t want local men to spend their money on travel, which competes with you? Is that where your interest lies in pulling the feminist shaming strategy about guys traveling? You are not a white nationalist so you don’t need to be protesting so much about men leaving the states and going to where there are more white women per capita (notice the irony in what I just said).

          Yes, it is clear that Ukrainian women expect men to be more alpha than ever.

          We understand that.

          We know this means that the beta male “bride seekers” who are actually going there less and less (because they’ve gotten the memo by 2013) don’t end up with anyone they couldn’t have gotten at home (this is arguable because these middle aged Ukrainian women often know nothing about feminism, but we’re talking about the betas getting single moms and 35 year olds in any case).

          We know now that one should go there only after becoming more alpha.

          We also know the USA, even with its feminism, may actually be a better place for dating, because Ukrainian country girls are not exactly the intellectual types you’ll find in Moscow.

          But there’s nothing wrong with a little travel.

          • YaReally
            on July 12, 2013 at 3:37 am
            Original Link

            “Is that where your interest lies in pulling the feminist shaming strategy about guys traveling?”

            My interest lies in men not being a bunch of pussies who turn tail and run for a promised land that doesn’t even exist and won’t benefit them because they haven’t developed themselves enough to handle it. They’ll go surround themselves with these magical unicorns and then end up getting raped because they’re still the same shitty beta guys that had to run away in the first place except they won’t see it coming because EE-junkies fed them a bunch of bullshit about how perfect and magical EE girls are. There are even guys from the Ukraine in this comment section telling you it’s the same shit as over here lol. But guys are so desperate to believe that it’s different elsewhere if they can just get there everything will be okay bla bla bla.

            It’s literally the same thing as hiring a hooker to be your wife. Ya, great, you got some poon, but you’re still the creeper from the strip club who has to pay girls to pretend to like you…you took the weakest way out possible and built a house of cards.

            They will end up with the same 6s they would’ve gotten here and she’ll cheat and divorce him just like she would here, not because she’s evil but because he’s still a shitty beta who just put a band-aid on a severed arm but believed the hype that in EE girls wouldn’t notice the missing arm. Except they’ll have wasted a chunk of their life they could’ve spent developing themselves, living in a false sense of security that will topple down on them down the road.

            If you love Ukrainian women and the culture and language and shit, awesome, go find one and good luck. If you’re going to the Ukraine because you think it’ll be easier, you are an idiot and should be fixing your outlook/game instead.

            “Sure, feminists are more of a challenge, but some guys would be nauseated in the presence of a woman who thinks Obamacare is great”

            Do you know how many feminists spouting about obamacare my friends and I have run into? Fucking zero.

            We’re not ninja flipping around their angry feminazi views and doing some awkward pass-the-bill shuffle for who pays for dinner and high-fiving over how we totally nailed a feminist. This just isn’t a thing.

            If you are getting into feminist discussions about shit, it’s because you are boring and are letting the conversation go there. Do you know what the last girl I banged’s view on feminism is? No? Me neither because who the fuck cares? Her feminist views are for the lame beta guys she isn’t letting grab her by the hair and fuck her throat.

            If we get into a long-term relationship, she’ll change her views to reflect mine because she’s a GIRL and I’m a man. If she doesn’t, cool, as long as she doesn’t give me hassle about it. If she does, she gets a Soft Next, and if she still doesn’t smarten up, she gets a Hard Next and I find another one.

            Like how is this horde of scary feminists happening to you? How does your pickup look? “Hey” “hi” “so I think we should go out and you should pay for half of dinner” “privilege!! Patriarchy!!!” Why are you even discussing this shit with them?

            Feminist shit-tests are just like dress codes at bars and screening guys based on their shoes or watch: they’re to weed out lame people. Once you’re inside, no one cares if you’re wearing sneakers.

on July 11, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Original Link

Nah. This is just ‘if only I were/had/could/blah blah……’ syndrome. And as David Lee Roth put it: “If you can’t do it in a white T-shirt and a pair of jeans under one white light bulb, you can’t do it!”

There are no shortcuts, dudebros.

on July 11, 2013 at 6:03 pm
Original Link

Ok. Let me get this straight….

Issue: Our White females are too spoiled and ruined, due to the actions of our White fathers and grandfathers.

1. Answer: Move to the Ukraine in hopes of dating and marrying economically disinfranchised (relatively poor) Ukrainian females.

2. Answer: Chase down Asian females, as they are a ‘sure bet’ for even the lamest of White males. Weak, demure, soft, child-like faces and bodies.

Ooooh Yeah! Super alpha white male strategy going on here. SMH!

  • YaReally
    on July 12, 2013 at 12:44 am
    Original Link

    lol this. Remember how Columbus was all “go discover America? I dunno man that sounds like a lot of work…” Sure hope you pussies reproduce cause then my sons will have zero competition for their choice of pussy.

Jazzy Hands
on July 11, 2013 at 7:42 pm
Original Link

I’d like to share an anecdotal caveat that echos the sentiments of a few of posters.

I know a man in his mid-fifties who married a mid-twenties Ukrainian lady after bad divorce and a custody battle. They had a whirlwind romance, got married, and she emigrated back. He’s an aging business owner with alpha like demeanor. She was the ingenue bumpkin. His interest was based more on her youth and beauty (HB 8.5), but three fold preconceptions of EE femininity, EE’s adherence to traditional gender roles, and a proclivity of sexual exploration.

Two years into the marriage, after his business prospects started to dim, she got “bored”, and he soon discovered her hypergamous inclinations. Perhaps living in a westernized first world country was the blame. Maybe fault can be found on her status as a traditional, but childless housewife. Maybe the ceiling mirrors/sex swings lost their appeal. I don’t know.

I was told she began to court local businessmen for a ticket to “greener” pastures. I don’t know if she rode on the alpha carousel. He never admitted as much. After a rocky couple of years of divorce talk and threatening to move out, they reconciled. My understanding is that she’s back with him when there appeared to be no takers.

I guess my point is love is never certain; you get what you give (if you’re lucky); and don’t marry.

But some must marry…So I posit a question to all you womanizers in CH land. Is it safe to assume that all women are back-stabbing whores, who to leave a first-world marriage at the first sign of marital discord? What tips or techniques do you use to “read” people?

Stayin’ Alive,

  • YaReally
    on July 12, 2013 at 12:49 am
    Original Link

    Be better than other men to her. Her Hypergamy will keep her faithful. It’s that simple.

Alpha Assessment: Terseness And Tingles Edition

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 10, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Original Link

Girl: That was the same night u made me give you my lunch money and ripped my bra and underwear
Guy: Who’s this?

  • Zombie Shane
    on July 10, 2013 at 4:55 pm
    Original Link

    I’m not understanding the thing about the vibrator.

    I mean, he is a dude, right?

    We’re not talking about dykes here, are we?!?

    • gaoxiaen
      on July 10, 2013 at 5:57 pm
      Original Link

      Reminds me of a cartoon I saw in Easyriders a long time ago. “I didn’t mind when you passed out on top of me, but then you pissed in my cunt.”

      • Zombie Shane
        on July 10, 2013 at 6:09 pm
        Original Link

        Well, except that he wasn’t in her cunt – the vibrator was in her cunt [unless I'm misunderstanding something here].

        If an Alpha can’t shoot his wad in a bitch’s birth canal, then what the hell is the point of being an Alpha in the first damned place?

        If Game Theory exists solely to teach a guy how to trick a girl into taking off her clothes so that he can then slide a vibrator into her [rather than his own erection], then Game Theory is a really grotesquely obscene form of utterly purposeless nihilism.

        [In which case I'd have to agree with FX's deservedly bitter rant downthread from here.]

        • Matthew King
          on July 11, 2013 at 10:39 am
          Original Link

          Contracepted sex is essentially masturbating into a cunt. Everything else is sodomy. Which can be fun and satisfying to while away one’s life, but then so are healthy bowel movements and launching a thick piss.

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 2:47 pm
            Original Link

            You sound like fun in bed lol

            Man you guys are terrible. No wonder I can get laid, if this is my competition in the bedroom lol

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 5:31 pm
            Original Link

            Is that the effect where I know how to find a clit and actually like women? lol.

on July 10, 2013 at 1:10 pm
Original Link

This post really disturbs me. I feel such sympathy for the girl and such disgust and anger towards whatever sociopathic slimewad brags about taking advtantage of someone’s feelings and degrading them.

Who cares if this can be an effective way of manipulating some women into doing whatever you want? How would it be if some woman started writing a blog about how to take advantage of men and then laugh at them while they break down and cry? “Chateau Girltiste- Hey girls, you should marry a nice beta provider and then nail a bunch of alpha guys on the side! You’ll get all the benefits of a nice dude and a jerk at the same time! Oh and then when you get tired of nice guy, you should divorce him and keep the house and alimony! Yeah! Pity all the poor girls that don’t know about this and actually try to be nice to guys.”

Yes, you can treat girls like garbage and get what you want our of it. You can also be a con artist and treat any gullible person like garbage and then take them for all their worth. So what? It’s a wrong way to treat peopl0,e and those who do it are disgusting.

And in the end, guys that sociopathic do not function well in the world. People who treat girls like this will somehow end up angering men too and even if women never take him down, at some men other guys will. I’ve seen guys like that and they end up imploding under their own narcicistic personality disorder as drunkards with no career or fired from their job because others hate them so much.

  • YaReally
    on July 10, 2013 at 2:25 pm
    Original Link

    This is why I’m honest with girls about my intentions and what I’m offering, and prefer sober girls. I like the girl to have consciously made the decision to fuck me based on the mutual attraction I’ve built up with her, VS just brow-beating her with psyche warfare into regretfully fucking me.

    I’m totally CAPABLE of that, and there’s plenty of “dark game” PUA material for that for the guys who want to use it or just understand the dynamics behind it…AND there are certain personality types of girls who NEED that drama in their life and will get bored of a guy who doesn’t dole out a little drama now and then…

    BUT, I prefer the good clean sober honest approach ideally. I love women and I don’t like making them feel shitty lol. But some of the guys I hang out with are on the other end of that and revel in the drama and manipulation…it totally works but I’ve seen the aftermath of damaged girls some of them have left in their wake and I just don’t want to be that guy. I still go by the oldschool “leave them better than you found them” PUA rule.

    • feministx
      on July 10, 2013 at 2:32 pm
      Original Link

      I respect you for that.

      This guy is not an example of what normal properly constructed men or women think a desired interaction is. People who have developed into complete human beings recognize that heterosexual people are supposed to love a member of the opposite sex. They are not just supposed to fixate on playing a game with the other person’s mind to take advantage of them so they can degrade them and then throw them away. The interaction noted here is about hate and despising someone for no reason, not love or caring or growing with each other. This is not what women secretly want in their hearts unless there is something wrong with them.

      This man in the OP is like the AIDS virus bragging about how good it is at infecting Africa. It’s a possibility of human nature, but anyone that aspires to this is a moral failure.

      • YaReally
        on July 10, 2013 at 3:31 pm
        Original Link

        It comes down to taking value VS giving value. You can take value, and still be successful. Like you can be a dickhead CEO making your employees work on xmas and you’ll be productive and make money etc. But you can also be a CEO and treat your employees well and make them feel appreciated so they volunteer to work on xmas for you.

        The PUA community started out way early on focusing on taking value because we were like “holy shit, we can GET these girls, we can trick them into banging us…they have no idea we’re nerdy and lame and they want to fuck us hahaha take that bitches!!” lol

        But now we’ve evolved and we focus a lot more on teaching new guys to give value and spread good vibes instead…even tho the taking value totally worked, it wasn’t a “clean” win the way learning to just be a cool guy who spreads value to the people around him is.

        • Matthew King
          on July 11, 2013 at 11:33 am
          Original Link

          Again, rewarmed Karmic claptrap. It ultimately will not avail you.

          Don’t get me wrong, though. It’s better than nothing and will do for now. And it is an order of magnitude better than the teenage-goth PUA idea of worshiping the “dark” this or the “evil” that.

          Cf. CH’s latest:

          Good things will come from great evil. Sorry, gotta include that great evil. Otherwise I’d get bored with the good good good all the time.

          Except that one doesn’t get “bored with the good good good all the time” so much as one becomes intellectually and aesthetically exhausted from the banality of evil. Eventually, a mature individual discovers the double-edged nature of evil, and how much he has been mutilating himself all the years he thought he was being independent. But evil is the opposite of freedom — of course it calls itself “freedom”! — evil is the equivalent of addiction, the drunk who has given over his will to death, and sobriety is no longer an option, just suicide. Fast or slow suicide, same ultimate destination.

          In reality, the good is infinitely variable and endlessly replenishing, an exhilaration that cannot be matched. Evil is mundane. But our generation believes the opposite, that villains are jaunty and clever and having just so much fun!!! because we were raised by life-despising Hollywood rather than a plain old mother and father who loved them more than they loved themselves.

          Confirm thy soul in self-control,
          Thy liberty in law.
          O beautiful for heroes proved
          In liberating strife.
          Who more than self their country loved
          And mercy more than life.


          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 5:30 pm
            Original Link


            “I interpreted what they said to mean that the act of approaching — with boldness and intent and strength — was impressive.”

            On that note, read this Comment and my response down below:


            Leaving off the “escape hatch” is the same concept and gets that same “wow he’s courageous, that’s hot!!” reaction. You get more points for going direct and being unapologetic and unashamedly sexual than a tall good-looking dude does because for YOU to do it, you’re busting out of the societal stereotypes and blowing their mind…whereas they EXPECT that from those other guys (who often disappoint them by NOT being like that lol).

            Like I say, your height is technically a “drawback” in society’s eyes, but when you understand how all these dynamics work, it really isn’t a big deal and in certain areas of pickup is actually BENEFICIAL and gives you an advantage.

            Like I have a 5’2″ buddy who’s just built very small and has a child-like face so he looks like he’s too young to be in the bar for sure…so when we walk into the bar, every head turns and guys mumble “lol ain’t it past yer bedtime” (perfect AMOG opportunity to demonstrate value with a quick comeback and a wink to that guy’s girl), and girls think he’s soooo cute and giggle when he drops some aggressive sexual innuendo at them and they become intrigued. All of this is handed to him by default everywhere he goes because he’s short, so on top of being peacocked by default, he also gets tons of practice socializing and handling AMOGs and handling social pressure.

            When *I* walk into that same bar? No one even notices me, because I look like just a generic random white guy…I have to actively do something to get attention, and even then I’ll only get half the attention he does and I’ll attract more negative attention because if I tool a guy the way my buddy does, with my buddy it’s cute and surreal because it’s so unexpected, with me I’ll get punched lol.

    • Me
      on July 10, 2013 at 3:18 pm
      Original Link

      I understand that you don’t revel in the “dark” aspect of game. Do you honestly think you’re leaving them better than you found them, though? In other words, once you’ve left them, are they really “better” emotionally/ mentally than they were before you met? Or do you think they’re saddened/ hurt? I’ve never been able to let myself off the hook so easy. Guilt is always there if I break off a relationship with a chick. You even said “I don’t like making them feel shitty lol” which to me implies you know the real score.

      • YaReally
        on July 11, 2013 at 12:51 pm
        Original Link


        But keep in mind that I take a pro-active approach to it because it’s important to me.

        The mistake a lot of guys make is that they rush in like a bull in a china shop, tear the place up, then go “okay how do I get the bull out of here without breaking any dishes?” My method is more “okay before we go in there, lets figure out how to keep this bull from destroying everything and lets bring a few extra plates as a gift to give the shopkeeper just because we have a lot of plates at home and we’re kind and generous that way. And lets make the shopkeeper feel good about themselves and their decision to let us bring a bull into their shop.”

        This is the same mistake guys make with setting up casual or open relationships. They go follow a traditional route and THEN ask “okay how do I make this a casual lay” when they should’ve been pro-active and laid the psychological groundwork for that from the start.

        Or in a bar fight situation. They get squared off with the guy and go “okay now what line do I use to avoid a fight?” when they should’ve been pro-actively avoiding the situation getting to that point in the first place.

        I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: my former lays LIKE me. I have Natural buddies who are bulls in a china shop and do massive damage to girl who are just messes by the end and hate them and ALL men etc. My girls have nothing but good to say about me (or neutral if we were just a one time fling). Because I didn’t hurt them and often helped them improve their lives or sort some of their shit out or kick bad habits or get the confidence to go for a guy they like or to trust men again or to embrace their sexy/slutty side in the bedroom that society told them to be ashamed of so they can overall embrace being more feminine, or just to have a bunch of mind-blowing toe-curling orgasms.

        It’s possible to do good in the world. You just have to WANT to, and you have to accept that sometimes you won’t get the girl or won’t want to get her because it won’t be a situation where you can do good for her. But that’s fine when you have an abundance mentality, there will be other girls.

        • RappaccinisDaughter
          on July 11, 2013 at 1:09 pm
          Original Link

          *clap clap clap*

          More like you, please.

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 3:29 pm
            Original Link

            “More like you, please.”

            That’s what I’m trying to create with my 400000 pages of comments I’ve written lol

            Pickup and Game is like martial arts. You can use it to be a bully, but a good teacher will try to instill a sense of morals in his students and encourage them to use it for good. Like even if I never talked to Scray or Immoralgables again, I know they’re going to spread some good and pay it forward in general. I’m not creating killing machines spreading death and despair leaving broken husks of damaged women in their wake like the Jezzies have painted PUAs lol

  • Orin
    on July 10, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Original Link

    You can’t deny results.

    Assuming the pictures from your profile are really you, and assuming you’re not a troll, acting like this is the only way to compete with your hypergamous instincts to desire an alpha male.

    I have no doubt that if I started giving you a disproportionate amount of dignity and respect at the expense of acting like “Nah-man” and “Skittles man,” you’d no doubt add me to the laundry list of beta orbiters you have at your disposal who will do your bidding on command and be grateful for simply getting a tiny amount of attention.

    Until you and the rest of your gender deny your biological instincts to accept and secretly desire being treated like this, I’m going to stick with what works.

    • Scray
      on July 10, 2013 at 5:46 pm
      Original Link

      This isn’t a result tho lol. it’s a mistake to say ‘o he must have value BECAUSE he used -nah- and was terse.’

      • cryo
        on July 10, 2013 at 6:26 pm
        Original Link

        Just because YOU can’t display value while being terse doesn’t mean it isn’t possible, Mr. Truth By Assertion. I pull nice ass with just a basic deployment of “indirect verbal, direct body language” and I hardly have to open my mouth.

        If you truly have “value” and aren’t just trying to front with mind games, it will come across in your demeanor, mannerisms, and even show in your eyes. Yes, you can’t just stand there like a statue and expect cunt to fall on your dick. But when you reach the state in which you have nothing to prove to anyone and are in touch with your core, the value is self-evident.

        • Scray
          on July 11, 2013 at 12:35 pm
          Original Link

          Ya ya ya… When I see someone in field not relying on looks/already established value to pull this ‘terse’ stuff off I’ll believe you.

          And I didn’t say display value…..I said HAVE value BECAUSE of the terseness. So all of that body language stuff you’re talking about =\= terseness.

          [CH: The general rule is that if you're speaking fewer words than the girl at all points across the seduction trajectory (except perhaps the very beginning when you have to capture her attention), you're doing it right.]

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 3:06 pm
            Original Link

            “So I don’t see how what I’m saying is inconsistent with the general rule.”

            It’s not, there just a miscommunication because you’re looking deeper into the pickup than other guys (probably because you’re short so for you you HAVE to be aware of how building/displaying value works, whereas a good looking rich tall guy thinks he “just says hello”).

            ie – these guys are just looking at after she knows he’s high value (however he demonstrated that) and how it works at that point. You’re looking at “but he has to have established that value first somehow for this to work”.

            You can say literally nothing and get the girl…if, when you walk in, you walk in with 2 girls on your arm, shake hands with a manager, dominate your social circle of alpha males, etc. you could just hand her your phone and she’d put her number in, but you’ve established high value with all this other stuff.

            Can a homeless smelly old man carrying a bottle of booze just hand girls a phone and get their number? No. Well what if he just doesn’t say any words either? Still no. So you HAVE to conclude that it’s not the “talking less than her” that’s attractive…and that’s “establishing high value”. Convince the girl that the homeless guy is secretly a millionaire adventure badass playboy who’s just researching an acting role and he can get her number with one word.

            Scray is noticing this disconnect because as a short guy he starts at a deficit based on society’s standards, so he’s like the homeless guy (lol no offense dude). He knows Jumbotron game won’t work for him on a cold approach because she doesn’t know he’s high-value yet. So he demonstrates it with his attitude, body language, dressing good, dominating girls around him, etc. THEN he can do Jumbotron game if he wants to, but if he just creeps silently out of the shadows as a low value schlub, Jumbotron won’t work.

            Literally the article’s txt message is the equivalent to me of a guy bragging about how he totally banged his wife last night. Like, there’s no game in there, he clearly already has value to her.

on July 10, 2013 at 1:34 pm
Original Link

Disagree. This isn’t an example of tight game IMHROOKIEO. The dude already has sky high value, and so he can say (or not say) anything he wants. So….I mean, it’s an example of not fucking up sky high value I guess.

The real art is to both BUILD value and pass the jumbotron test simultaneously ==>

Her: who is this? (ya, means I have low value to her…starting at deficit)
Me: hopefully nxt guy u regret sleeping with. hai.
Her: lol wat is ur name
Me: will johnson ;)
Her: lmao dumbass
Me: u should be nice to will johnson
Her: is this that guy from weds? (value building……)
Me: ya…WILL JOHNSON ffs dummy
Her: that’s not what you said your name was!
Me: …..o shit. who is THIS?
Her: lmfao cant keep ur girls straight
Me: (later) hey tomorrow u should tag along at venue x
Her: i dont get off work til 9 if thats ok
Me: fuck u call in
Her: i cant lol pushy
Me: ok u tried ur best. see u then.

I’m not saying this is PERFECT or THE BEST. But what I’m saying is that it got me a successful day 2 with that 6.5 and required actual value building. Just my 2 cents.

  • YaReally
    on July 10, 2013 at 2:00 pm
    Original Link

    “Disagree. This isn’t an example of tight game IMHROOKIEO. The dude already has sky high value, and so he can say (or not say) anything he wants. So….I mean, it’s an example of not fucking up sky high value I guess.”

    This. Was coming here to post this. If he doesn’t already have high value to the girl, that style of txting won’t work. It will go like this:

    Him: “hey”
    Her: “hi”
    Him: “How goes”
    Her: “Good”
    Him: “Cool”
    (then she just stops txting…2 days later he tries again):

    Him: “we should hang out”
    Her: “I’m kind of busy this week”
    Him: “gay”
    (then silence, followed by NEXT’ing her and bragging that he totally ditched that bitch and showed her who’s boss because she’s a frigid lesbian)

    You have to establish higher value specifically to HER first (vs just objectively to society being higher value by having money looks etc, doesn’t mean shit, SHE has to view you as high value). There are a ton of ways to do that, in person, in the initial pickup, over txt/phone, on a Day 2, etc.

    Anyway here’s my obligatory counter-argument to the Jumbotron. Note that I actually like txting lol so literally *I* would be bored having these Jumbotron conversations.

    • Scray
      on July 10, 2013 at 2:31 pm
      Original Link

      lol I only say it because I’ve TRIED it in the wrong situs and it DOESN’T work without the value hahaha. I mean, as I resolve this ‘flake’ situation, I’m getting really into trying to supplement/add value through texts…and I’m finding that longer/more fun texts are better for that purpose.

      • Cragsleeper
        on July 10, 2013 at 2:43 pm
        Original Link

        ‘u tried ur best’. haha like that framing. I do longer texts generally. I texted a 7 for awhile using long but spaced out texts. She was doing the same thing. Seemed to work fine, got her out twice and she was saying things like ‘hope I didn’t bore you too much’ but I botched it on 2nd night when I kissed way too long and she actually was the one to finally pull away – just plain dumb of me lol. I knew better I’m just a horndog sometimes. Needless to say I couldn’t get her out again.

        • Scray
          on July 10, 2013 at 3:00 pm
          Original Link

          ‘Seemed to work fine, got her out twice and she was saying things like ‘hope I didn’t bore you too much’ but I botched it on 2nd night’

          So, I notice this too….and tbh I legit think that sometimes they are giving you a hint to be more fun and engaging. Like, sometimes they legit just think you have super skyhigh value — but if they aren’t ramming their tongues down your throat, it’s possible that the *hint hint* be cooler *hint hint* could be tru.

          ‘Needless to say I couldn’t get her out again.’

          The fuck you can’t bro. It’s never over. I have a friend who has built a life out of non-cold approach puss-getting. It’s a constant stream of online messaging, texting, social circle gatherings, etc. He’s gotten several girls to go out again after a botched date or flake or whatever months later….even when they haven’t responded to like 10 consecutive texts (spaced out by hours, then days, then weeks, accordingly). Granted, he’s always getting new leads and farming them too, but…you get the point lol

          • YaReally
            on July 10, 2013 at 3:23 pm
            Original Link

            “He’s gotten several girls to go out again after a botched date or flake or whatever months later….even when they haven’t responded to like 10 consecutive texts (spaced out by hours, then days, then weeks, accordingly). Granted, he’s always getting new leads and farming them too, but…you get the point lol”

            This, also. At 10:30 in this super old Tyler seminar:


            The key part is where he doesn’t get the girl but is like “a few weeks later I called her again to see if I could turn it around…months later when she’s deleted my number, she picks up”. And then he just controls the frame and acts like nothing happened and just assumes attraction/value and builds attraction again, then is like “how come we never hung out, i never got that, you should come over.” and pushes for the close again.

            Granted your situ might be different/awkard, like that girl could be married to your brother right now or some shit lol. But if she’s a random, you had enough attraction to get her out and make out, and your game has probably gotten better since then, so feel free to give it another go and see if you can turn it around. Basically just act as if nothing went wrong and you had just met her this weekend and she was a fresh start. As long as you can give her good emotions and spike them and get her attracted etc, she’ll forget all about how raging horny you were lol

        • YaReally
          on July 10, 2013 at 3:16 pm
          Original Link

          “lol I only say it because I’ve TRIED it in the wrong situs and it DOESN’T work without the value hahaha”

          I know it for the same reason. :) Field Experience is king lol

          Like I always say, when you do something and get two different results with it, you have to drill down deeper to figure out why you’re getting two different results. So jumbotron txting works sometimes and not other times, and verbose txting works sometimes and not other times. So then drill down deeper and look at what commonalities are there when jumbotron works, and how do those cross-check with when verbose works.

          Keep digging and you produce the diamond of: it comes down to higher value. A distilled concept that we can universally apply, and look at other concepts to figure out how/where we can link them to this concept and where else we can apply it and how we can manipulate or capitalize on it.

          “I mean, as I resolve this ‘flake’ situation, I’m getting really into trying to supplement/add value through texts…and I’m finding that longer/more fun texts are better for that purpose.”

          Personally I enjoy it. I was a nerd growing up, so I was on IRC, ICQ, MSN, etc. all my life (even BBS’es before that for the old guys here lol). So to me txting is just like that. I have my phone with me 24/7 and just txt thru my day.

          One of my buddies and I, when we pre-drink and play xbox on fri/sat nights, we have to constantly pause the xbox because every 2-5 minutes one of our phones will go off and we have to just pop off a txt. It doesn’t annoy us because it’s happening to both of us and we just understand “gotta’ put some time in if you want pussy”…whereas buddies who don’t get laid or have girls txting them get mad at us for having to pause the game so frequently lol

          txting a lot is fine, as long as it’s going somewhere and as long as you’re banging her and can manage when to push/pull and run her through emotions and ignore her now and then (give her the gift of missing you) etc. Too many guys try to misapply being aloof jumbotrons and do it before they have value, or when she needs more (“my dad died today”), or right when they almost had her or could’ve had her they think “gotta’ back off and ignore her for 2 days” and the vibe is dead by then when they could’ve fucked her that night with a couple more txts etc. etc.

          “Seemed to work fine, got her out twice and she was saying things like ‘hope I didn’t bore you too much’ but I botched it on 2nd night when I kissed way too long and she actually was the one to finally pull away – just plain dumb of me lol. I knew better I’m just a horndog sometimes. Needless to say I couldn’t get her out again.”

          lol. Happens to all of us. Some shit to consider:

          1) if you can’t seal the deal that night (whether you don’t want to, or whether logistics are bad, or whether you think you’ll get way too much Last Minute Resistance to be able to pull it off because she needs more comfort/game, etc., don’t make out with her hardcore…just kiss her with a romantic kiss and be the first to pull away.

          2) you might not have moved fast enough if you didn’t try to seal the deal that night…ie – you had two dates where you’re already making out but if you didn’t figure out how to push it to sex then she might label you as “this guy doesn’t know how to make this happen, ughhhg frustrating” and not come out again.

          Just throwing those two things out there. :) I always try to fuck on the 2nd date at the latest. I’m actually messing with this next week for fun…I’m meeting up with a super hottie (totally my type looks-wise) and I know she WANTS to bang but she’s nervous about it and wants to “just have drinks, no funny business”. I CAN escalate to banging her that night, but for fun I’m going to just build as much sexual tension as possible and like, move in close for a kiss but then not quite actually kiss her, etc. and then at the end move in real close, cup her cheek with my hand, look her in the eyes, start to move in, then stop and go “well, I promised I’d be a gentleman, have a good night! :) ” and abruptly turn and walk away.

          She’ll either chase me down and jump my bones or send me a fuckton of angry horny frustrated txts and then demand I fuck her next time we hang out…either way is funny to me and a win, but I feel like slow-playing it just for the practice/entertainment.

          But notice that in doing this I’m following the rule above of not kissing her if I don’t intend to seal the deal that night, and it’s our first date so it should lead to sex within the 2 dates timeframe.

  • YaReally
    on July 10, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    Original Link

    P.S. that was solid-ass txting. Like you say you started from a deficit but you set a sexual frame and pushed towards an actual meetup (“pushy lol” she loves it), and plowed towards the meetup despite her working late, etc

    No surprise at all that it worked and ya, going from “who’s this?” to a date takes more game than going from “I want to fuck you” to “I still want to fuck you” lol

    That’s not to say there aren’t lessons to be learned from the OP’s screenshot, it’s a good example of how when you have value to the girl the lol or non-lol doesn’t matter, and how you should always be calibrating to “how much value does she think I have?”

    Like that’s a good lesson to take away. Sure you got her number but how solid is it? Did she see you with other girls and your entourage and shaking the managers hand? Or did you establish solid rapport and comfort? Or was it a 5 min #-close on your way to the bar? And even then did you do something in that 5 min to establish high value to her because the 5 min part is irrelevant, you can get a 5 min # with low value or high value, THAT’S the relevant part.

    And if your value is lower to her, even if you were on fire like a boss all night fucking playboy models in the bathroom, if she saw you pooped at the end in a McDonalds, she has no idea what a god you were because you ARE high-value but to her you haven’t DEMONSTRATED high-value yet (tho you’d probably ooze it from state after a night like that lol)…so then you have to ask yourself: “how can I build my value to her?”

    And that’s where game tactics come in.

on July 10, 2013 at 1:47 pm
Original Link

Deep Question:

If you have a 9-10 and slightly bi gf, do you go for the threesome? No woman wants to share an alpha, so this is a prescription for drama. Thoughts?

  • YaReally
    on July 10, 2013 at 2:04 pm
    Original Link

    Relevant part for your situ in the 2nd half of this video when he’s talking about li’l wayne & deadmau5:

on July 10, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Original Link

the acronym ‘lol’ gets too much hate from the manosphere. i find it invaluable for lightening up a conversation and providing a sense of playfulness and sexual mischief to what could otherwise be interpreted as an overly serious creepy comment.

  • RappaccinisDaughter
    on July 10, 2013 at 3:17 pm
    Original Link

    I’m not a fan of “lol,” but I’ll take it over “hehe” any day. Every time I see a “hehe,” I form a mental image of him giggling like a pretty pretty princess while pouring tea for his dollies.

    • YaReally
      on July 10, 2013 at 3:28 pm
      Original Link

      “I form a mental image of him giggling like a pretty pretty princess while pouring tea for his dollies.”

      What? Is that NOT your type? wtf am I gonna’ do with all these dolls now, fuck. hehe.

      On that note: I’ll sometimes calibrate to the girl. Some girls are heavy on the lols and winky faces and shit, and those ones I’ll lol and emoticon like normal…but now and then I’ll meet a girl who never uses any of that stuff and I’ve found that those girls tend to want their guy to not use any of that stuff either because it makes him seem girlier/gayer and less attractive to her…ie – she wants more of a jumbotron aloof style txting guy. When I notice she’s that type, I’ll drop that stuff even if I keep the rest of my txting the same.

      I’ve also noticed that those girls tend to be the less feminine girls. Still hot, but more “independent feminist” type personalities. I prefer bubbly cute girly-girls, personally. But ya, I calibrate my txting style a bit to stuff like that.

      • B. Ess
        on July 10, 2013 at 3:43 pm
        Original Link

        I have zero shame in admitting I’ve sent gay ass smiley kissy face emojis. Calibration is key.

        • Mitch Cumstein
          on July 11, 2013 at 2:13 am
          Original Link

          It really is futile what we use, isn’t it? Somewhere down the line, you will text something that does not pass the jumbotron test. As long as you are AWARE of your useage (how you come off to her, who is chasing who for value, etc.), then there shouldn’t be a problem. And after you get the lay, your emoji useage will go down dramatically anyway, right?

          YaReally uses “lol” like a scalpel, to great effect. He is the exception. In my eyes, 99.9% of guys using it come off like apologetic cunts. Unless you’re using it in an ironical sense, you look like you lack conviction in what you’re texting. “If I don’t put LOL, she may never respond to what I just said.” An emergency eject button in case you come off as terse.

          I prefer “Ha”. The other person doesn’t know if you went, “HA!” out loud, if you were unimpressed, but…there is interest to find out. Just my $.02.

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 12:33 pm
            Original Link

            This is an important point actually.

            I very consciously do not use “lol” in situations where I’m aggressively pushing forward in a way that she could shoot me down, which is where other guys use the “lol” as an eject button exactly how and why you described.

            So it would be something like:
            Me: “bla bla lol bla”
            Her: “lolol bla bla”
            Me: “You’re funny. You should come out tonight.” (no lol)
            Her: “Why?”
            Me: “Because I want to see you.” (no lol)

            Whereas other guys might do something like:

            “You’re funny. :) You should come out tonight!”
            “I dunno so we can hang out or something lol”

            Like, when I’m making a Statement of Interest or giving a “command”, I do it with just a period and wait for her response. I don’t care if she doesn’t respond for a week, I stated my intentions and I’m not backing off them or cushioning them inside an “eject lol”. That’s what that shoul be called lol, an “eject lol”.

            Anyway ya, this is something I consciously do. I liken it to how in a live pickup you might dick around and tease her and not be fully facing her etc, and then she says something interesting and you suddenly turn to her, stare her in the eyes with laser intense focus, step in her space, drop your voice into a serious tone, and calmly state your intentions or whatever. Like because I’m lol’ing all the time, when I DON’T it has that much more impact on what I’m saying.

            Good comment/analysis.

            [CH: Good points. This is the principle of "don't half-ass it" when you need to impress a girl with authentic alphatude. That "lol" can be dangerous when used as an escape hatch of plausible deniability when strong dominance is required.]

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 5:18 pm
            Original Link

            “[CH: Good points. This is the principle of "don't half-ass it" when you need to impress a girl with authentic alphatude. That "lol" can be dangerous when used as an escape hatch of plausible deniability when strong dominance is required.]”

            Right, and to extrapolate it into a normal live pickup: part of demonstrating high-value *IS* risking getting shot down. ie – going direct is, in itself, attractive, because you’re saying “I’m willing to risk not seeing you again, to make my intentions known” VS going indirect and trying to “avoid pain”. She might not bang you from that alone, of course…but I know when I drop a hard SOI with no lol via txt her first thought is “…isn’t he going to write a lol? No? oh wow…he’s being serious when he says he wants me, that’s fucking hot…”

            You can still go indirect, but there’s a point, like me stopping using lol’s at certain times, where you have to unapologetically go direct without an escape hatch.

Beta Of The Month: The Divorce House

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 8, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Original Link

There is a simple solution to the problems of marriage: Don’t get married. Have your own life instead of what your wife permits you.
If you must:
1. Pre-nups.
2. DNA testing.
3. Know the law. If you do, you might skip marriage.

About prenups. At one time they sounded crass. That was back in the day when two young and inexperienced people fell in love and married quickly to devote their lives to each other. Nowadays, marriage is almost in cold blood, especially for the woman. It is based on cold calculations including economic benefit, social benefit, and sexual pleasure. Love hardly enters into it. It is a joke. They laugh at the words, “Love, honor, and obey” during the marriage ceremony.

Being beta is one thing. The bottom 90% is beta by definition. The math is inescapable. So, most men will be betas. But, being tooled is an entirely different matter. You have to work to be an alpha, but you volunteer to be tooled.

And remember, women can get laid easily. Just because they can, is no reason why they should. Women should ask themselves why it is easy for them to get laid but not married. Men can get married easily. Just because they can is no reason why they should. Men should ask themselves why it is easy for them to get married but not laid.

So, betas, there is never, never a good reason to wind up in that guy’s shoes.

  • YaReally
    on July 9, 2013 at 1:58 pm
    Original Link

    Personally, as I get older and this stuff becomes more relevant (if not for myself personally, then for all my friends getting married around me), it would be nice if someone in the Manosphere with solid red pill and legal understanding, wrote up a guide to basically “The Safest Way To Get Married” that described all the precautions a man should take and how to execute them.

    Like a lot of guys think a pre-nup is solid but they don’t know the nuances like “she has to sign it way ahead of the wedding or she can claim she was under duress and get it thrown out” or “if the pre-nup mentions custody, the whole thing will get thrown out” etc. that guys don’t think about.

    Same with the DNA testing, what kind of pressures and from who the guy should expect to run up against (I’ve heard even the doctors rush/pressure the man to sign the birth certificate) and how to neutralize the “don’t you trust me??” arguments the girl will put forward.

    And some basic legal stuff that will help a guy avoid trouble (like if things start going downhill in the marriage, start documenting everything to avoid running into child abuse and false rape claims in a divorce).

    And lastly a section on “So you’re heading toward a divorce”, of stuff to watch out for and prep ahead of time to hopefully avoid being raped in the divorce. Based on both initiating the divorce or expecting it to happen down the road, and on an emergency plan for if you get blindsided with the divorce papers completely out of the blue.

    A book like THAT, would be fucking useful and worth a purchase and gifting around to male friends, as we enter this new red pill aware era.

    • Glengarry
      on July 9, 2013 at 2:33 pm
      Original Link

      It would be a hell of a more powerful red pill than the dating one. Like you can be put in jail for 14 years because the judge thinks you have hidden assets to be turned into alimony $$. Like you might be granted the privilege of paying child support to your wife and the real father of that child (yay!). And so on.

      • YaReally
        on July 9, 2013 at 5:05 pm
        Original Link

        Ya, I look at it like, we all KNOW this thing is a terrible deal, but there isn’t really a resource I can point my buddy to and be like “um dude, I know you like this girl, but just give this a quick read before you get married, k? I just don’t want you to take any chances ’cause you’re my bro.”

        As it is, all I can really do is warn him of anecdotes and vague random links to articles that he probably won’t spend the time to read, and point him to a bunch of whiny-ass manosphere commenters bitching about women, or men’s rights forums where everyone is labelled a mysoginist…not exactly convincing arguments for a guy who’s in love and saving up 3 months salary for a ring she doesn’t have to give back if she flakes on the wedding.

        Dunno, just saying, if anyone out there reading this has the time to put this kind of knowledge down into a nice concise non-bitter-sounding format, you could charge some $ for it and I can think of 3 or 4 guys I’d be handing it out to myself.

        That Men on Strike book by Helen Smith is awesome in terms of laying out the issues with marriage today, it’s not butt-hurt sounding or anything, all very logical and concise and addresses a lot of common “man up” arguments.

        But for a few more generations our friends, brothers, sons, etc. will still get one-itis for whatever possibly-shitty-quality-bipolar-psycho-chick they’re lucky enough to get to touch their penis, reject the red pill the way it’s presented here, and get sucked into the social conditioning brainwashing that they need to get married the traditional way.

        It would be nice to have a way to at least minimize the damage to those guys, if we can’t save them. And they sure as shit aren’t going to read this comment section lol

on July 9, 2013 at 2:58 pm
Original Link

This is an important point:

But that is a problem with you and your fatherless existence more than it is intelligent advice for young men searching for meaning.

If not, then what the fuck are we doing here, little girls? Hey, little bitches, do you think that we are here so that you can go out and plunder our women? Even Heartiste isn’t here for that. I think that all the ego=subsumed little bitches, including YaReally, forget that what the entire MS is about is scrapping, and scraping, and clawing, and fighting to generate “intelligent advice for your men searching for meaning.” All of you little bity pussies that fight for scraps of your own manhood should remember this: it’s about liberating men. Facepalm. Ungodly pussies.

  • YaReally
    on July 9, 2013 at 4:55 pm
    Original Link

    I *think* you might’ve insulted me in there, but I’m not sure wtf you just wrote lol

    Either way I support liberating men. That’s why I write about the things I write about.

Comment Of The Week: The Subtle Art Of The AMOG

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 7, 2013 at 9:37 am
Original Link

Girl i’m seeing is pissed with me. her crazy hoarder mother wants to move out of her own home and into the girl’s apartment. I asked why they don’t want to clean the place up but crazy lady wants daughters apartment.

Now this girl at time refuses to stay with me because she’s working. Or i’m working.

So she texts and says “its ok if you say not but my mom is going to live in my apartment for 6 weeks. Can I stay at yours?

Me: A few days is o, but not 6 weeks. I come and go at all hours.

Since then she’s been a total bitch to me.

She showed up at a party i had helped organize at venue I will use for a big event in September.

She told me it looks cheap and isn’t up to the artists’ level.

Then she sulked.

Then she left early without saying goodby and made a production out of leaving early.

Me: Goodbye, walked over to finish my chat with my mates.

Do I contact her and confront on tthis nonsense?

Do I freeze her out?

What would a game move be for a girl who’s passive aggressively passing on their anger against their other onto me? Then crapping over my idea instead of making suggestions to spruce up the decor.

All inputs are welcome.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:17 pm
    Original Link

    What would you do if she was 300lbs? Would you let her get away with any of this shit?

    You let a lot of shitty behavior go on for too long, so you might have to get tougher and when she comes back from a Soft Next, tell her flat out “I know you’re in a shitty situation right now, but don’t take it out on me. I won’t have that shit in my life.” and if she keeps bringing it, Soft Next again.

    You can Soft Next multiple times, as many times as is necessary to snuff out the bad behavior…if it’s not being snuffed out then ultimately a Hard Next might be necessary (ie – ditch her completely…a Soft Next is temporary punishment). You may ultimately lose her if she’s in her 30s because she may want to find a husband to have kids with soon and is partly venting that frustration on you, so be prepared for that and if she goes, she goes, wish her the best and hope she finds someone who’ll provide her with that if you’re not willing to.

    Ultimately though, she’s acting this way because you’re letting her act this way by not punishing it.

    • walawala
      on July 9, 2013 at 11:23 pm
      Original Link

      @YaReally… for me game is always a series of experiments.

      I had it out with my girl.

      The exchange was both of us just crashing on each other:

      Her: You think you know everything

      Me: and you? complain. criticize. pout. Princess


      Her: king

      Me; yup

      Her: bye

      I think…chicks love the drama of trying to get hand in these exchanges. I didn’t respond.

      They actually really get off on this more than sweet talk. All the research here is borne out in many of my own personal experiences.

      “Bye” is a way of trying to gain hand, of trying to enlist me to say “what do you mean?” or “sorry” or whatever.

      I think this is what she must be used to. She’s not used to a guy who constantly keeps her guessing, doesn’t take her crap, disappears, reappears, reveals parts of himself, then remains aloof.

      Your “soft-next” article was pure gold.

      I think the old pre-game me would have handled this exchange more softly, instead of clashing over frame control.

      • YaReally
        on July 10, 2013 at 12:24 pm
        Original Link

        Good stuff and ya it’s exactly like you’re reading it. The Bye is classic.

        The good side is that this is easy/predictable to handle. The downside is this means you have a girl who loves and gets off on drama…in the longterm you’ll want to decide how much drama is too much for you.

        With girls in this mood attacking me I’ll turn it around and go over the top on them:

        her: “you think you know everything”
        me: “all you do is criticize me”
        “I do not you’re the one who blah blah”
        “No you know what I’m getting sick of this shit. You always make me feel guilty for hanging with my friends”
        “I do not, fuck you”
        “No fuck YOU. I’m tired of this shit. If you want some lame fucker you can push around then find someone else”
        “Fine. Bye” (but here I’m leading her on a rollercoaster so I won’t let it go at Bye, I’ll just keep making drama by picking a hot button for her)
        “Every time I’m out you txt me shit trying to start drama with me and ruin my night. Like god forbid I actually have a fun night out with my buddies. You’re so fucking high maintenance”
        “Fuck you I am not!! I just blah blah” (and now she’s roped back in)

        Then after a while of this when emotions are running high ill switch gears into nice/sweet stuff like:

        “Whatever. You do it on purpose and it fucks with my night and makes me bitch to my friends about you and I hate that because I don’t want to be the guy complaining about his girl when I’m out I want to be the guy who’s bragging about her”
        “Well you just make me feel like blah”
        “Oh so only your feelings matter. I see. Fuck what I want.”
        “No that’s not it you just blah”
        “I just wish you’d txt me sweet thing when I’m out instead of bitchy shit. I LIKE when you txt me but not when you’re being a bitch.”
        “I’m not a bitch!!”
        “Whatever. Fuck this I’m done talking tonight. Later.” (now I’m pulling the “bye” move on her lol)

        Then the next day she’ll usually txt something innocent and I’ll act like the whole thing didnt happen. Or I’ll txt her in a few days with something innocent etc.

        Now this is all shitty and assholish and drama. And quite frankly it’s the same style abusive men/women use on their partners to break them down but keep them coming back for more. So it’s shitty to even have to use it.

        BUT…when you’re with a girl who’s exhibiting signs that she loves/needs drama, NOT providing drama like this now and then will actually turn her OFF and she’ll leave you for some abusive asshole who WILL give her the drama she needs lol. Like she’s shown you her blueprint and it’s up to you if you want to get involved in drama like this…some girls just need it once to know your capable of it, some need it every damn week.

        Why do you think housewives watch soap operas? That’s how they get their drama fix so their hubby can be a nice bland guy, they’ve already “exercised” their emotions being pissed happy and crying over their soaps earlier in the day.

        Try starting some drama with her in this situ. Just for the experience. Just remember to turn it around on her, then amplify it and go waaaaay over the top with it, then transition back into saying sweet things and how you hate being like that etc and then use a Bye to cut it off and see what happens in a few days.

        Personally I hate drama so I try to screen the high drama ones out, but often they’re the really hot ones cause people have allowed them to be drama all their lives lol

on July 7, 2013 at 10:49 am
Original Link

Man some times people need to be jacked.
As a swimmer and also being in the University team I pretty much get this attack from many guys. They should really think before using it there’s more in life than girls and bullshitting you with your hobbies is really a bad idea.
But thankfully after sometime I learned how to use their song to my favor. Their Grey whale song.

  • immoralgables
    on July 7, 2013 at 1:09 pm
    Original Link

    It sounds like you are reactive when guys come at you for your swimmers physique. This misses the point of the post, which says that if you attach your identity to something, it makes it easier for others to influence your internal state.


    Imagine a guy who prides himself on having a one-bedroom apartment in the west village (NYC). That’s his source of his strong identity. He thinks he’s the shit because none of his other friends have their own crib in the WV. All it could take to throw this guy out of state is one snarky/snide/sarastic/funny comment about his living situation.

    Me: West Village? Never heard of it. Isn’t that near the ghetto (smirk)
    Lameguy: (Starts qualifying himself)(Doesn’t matter what he says)(His body language betrays him here)
    Me: Hey it’s cool man, you don’t have to qualify yourself. We’re just messing with you the West Village is a dope spot.

    Same principal at play here. How cool is this lameguy if he allows someone to fuck up his internal state with an obviously sarcastic comment that compares his neighborhood to the Bronx?

    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 1:18 pm
      Original Link

      All of this.

      And especially this:

      “It sounds like you are reactive when guys come at you for your swimmers physique. This misses the point of the post, which says that if you attach your identity to something, it makes it easier for others to influence your internal state.”

      You’re in the wrong headspace from the start. You’re thinking like “no but you guys don’t understand, THIS situation is DIFFERENT.” It’s not, it’s just more relevant to you so you feel like it is.

  • Zombie Shane
    on July 8, 2013 at 6:49 am
    Original Link

    > ” I pretty much get this attack from many guys”

    I was asking upthread why anyone would wanna date a crazy chick.

    And again, I gotta ask, why would anyone wanna hang with dudes who “ATTACK” him all the damned time?

    You need friends like that the way you need a few more holes in your head.

    Life is just way too short to waste it on fucktards.


    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 1:20 pm
      Original Link

      Because you can’t choose the people around you 24/7. Sometimes you’re forced to deal with dipshits, whether it’s at school, work, in your social circle (your best buddy’s douchey friend, etc.), at the bar, in your swimming hobby, etc.

      You can keep shitty people from being a part of your very close inner-circle, but you can’t avoid interacting with retards 24/7, ESPECIALLY if you’re working on becoming more social or learning to approach women.

on July 7, 2013 at 10:58 am
Original Link

Excellent post. Is that confidence you project merely a veneer or something you have regardless of circumstance? Is alpha a state or an attitude? Is it “I’m an alpha. [period]“, or “I’m an alpha (only) because…”.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:25 pm
    Original Link

    Fake it till you make it. At first it’s bullshit, but over time with enough reference experience you realize that your worth really is internally based and you can change what it’s based on arbitrarily.

    Like “man, look at my black shirt, this is the best black shirt in the world, fuck I’m awesome.” or if it’s a shitty shirt “man, look at this shitty black shirt, on ME it looks amazing, I make everything look amazing, fuck I’m awesome.” lol If someone takes your shirt away, “man, I don’t even NEED that shirt, look at my belly, that’s a man’s belly right there, I didn’t get that from eating salads like a homo, chicks love this belly it means I can protect them with my bulk like a boss”.

    A lot of this comes down to frame control and building a strong frame until it’s strong enough that other people can’t fuck with it. This spills into a lot of other areas of success in pickup.

    More on this from RSD Julien:

moe jones
on July 7, 2013 at 12:04 pm
Original Link

Reframing is key, which is what YaReally did, packaged in the form of a compliment. It’s rare in that case that you’ll come across an AMOG like that who has the ability to reframe what YaReally said back at him.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:30 pm
    Original Link

    It’s the concept of the big scary guy who gets his ass kicked in a fight by a little guy because no one’s ever attacked him before so he didn’t know what to do.

    These guys don’t expect anyone to flip the frame on them like that, so they struggle and can’t recover. *I* could recover, because guys have tried to fuck with me a ton over my journey of going from hermit recluse to social butterfly. It’s like coming in with a counter-punch, if someone is used to that they can counter your counter and that can go back and forth for a while till someone slips up. But if you’ve never run into a counter-puncher you’re like “wtf was that?!” and swing wildly out of confusion/frustration and get counter-punched again and next thing you know you’re laying on the ground looking at the stars lol

    The problem is most guys put value on money, looks, etc. and believe women do, so when these guys approach their girls, they just GIVE them the girls. It’s retarded and self-defeatest. They go “well this guy is 6’4 and rich, so of course she’ll like him instead of me :( ” and get inside their heads and don’t hold the frame and back into the shadows and LET this other guy, who probably didn’t even have any game, HAVE the girl.

    Then they, and 10 other insecure guys who watched that go down, go online and go “YEP. Confirmed! Women like height and money, I saw this tall guy steal the girl from this short average guy, so now I can hide in my victim Identity instead of doing the hard work of building my internal sense of value…now I have a justification for all my shortcomings so I don’t have to work!!”

on July 7, 2013 at 12:19 pm
Original Link

If you’re getting AMOG’ed, or do the AMOGing, then you are completely lost. If you write multi-paragraphed treatments of how to live a life with AMOGs, you are most definitely doing it wrong. I have never been, nor ever been on the receiving end of, this fictional AMOG of which you speak. What reality are you living in? If you’re experiencing AMOGs, it’s because you’re putting forth that energy in your life. That energy is what you need to address, not the “AMOG.” Grow up.

Okay, for the noobs: this whole AMOG thing is a boogey man intended to keep you in the corral. AMOGs only exist for losers with over-active imaginations. Are other men competing with you for the genetically sound eggs of our species? Yes, they are. Does that make them AMOGs? No, it doesn’t. They are normal men living their lives, of which procuring genetically fit eggs is a part.

To elevate them to AMOG status is essentially a D&D self jerk. And to try to get other men to believe in the fiction of AMOGs to make you feel better about yourself, is just fucking low. [There’s a boogey man behind every corner, so follow me for your safety.]

With this post, we now see the MS beginning to retrograde. Comical.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:33 pm
    Original Link

    “If you’re getting AMOG’ed, or do the AMOGing, then you are completely lost.”

    No shit. This stuff is for guys who are learning game. The guys who are going out and are running into AMOGs and getting tooled BECAUSE they are lost and guys can tell they can fuck with them, because they don’t have the solid internals where guys don’t mess with them.

    When you train in martial arts, guys stop fucking with you physically because you carry yourself better and look like you’re not a guy to fuck with, so they pick on the scrawny nerd beside you and stuff him in a locker, because they know they can fuck with him.

    This advice is for the scrawny nerd. The guy who can handle himself doesn’t get fucked with as much, but if he does, he knows how to throw a punch.

    • Anonymous
      on July 8, 2013 at 3:13 pm
      Original Link

      It’s important to note that no matter what you do, you will never be able to completely deter every idiot out there. Especially when the booze flows freely. I was a college football player and so were the rest of my buddies I go out with. Every once in a while some drunk idiot (or even rarer, a group) will get all worked up and try to start trouble with the big guy(s) to look cool or whatever. And we usually just laugh it off and walk away. Yeah I know, “super totally non-Alpha broski,” but whatever, better than going to jail for beating someone up who’s half your size. Besides, often times the group is grateful that you didn’t stir up an unnecessary confrontation and buzzkill an otherwise fun night out. Comic relief bonus points if the other guy is actually half your size.

      • YaReally
        on July 8, 2013 at 10:00 pm
        Original Link

        Yep. I walk away from TONS of interactions that could go bad if I had a chip on my shoulder about looking manly to others. I just don’t care.

        There’s a really awkward CK Louis video from his TV show where he’s on a date with a girl and a young jock douche comes over and threatens him and he has to decide whether to get into a fight with the kid to save face or back down. And he knows he can’t win the fight, he’s an old man and the kid is psycho and he’s like “I’m not going to fight you, I have 2 kids at home to take care of, that’s ridiculous” and the guy makes him apologize and act like a bitch to avoid getting beat up.

        In the end he doesn’t get beat up, and he loses the girl…but he can go home to take care of his kids and provide for them, instead of being dead or in the hospital or jail.

        Was he “alpha”? Who the fuck cares. He made the smart choice even if guys like King would’ve made fun of him for it and called him a coward.

        “Besides, often times the group is grateful that you didn’t stir up an unnecessary confrontation and buzzkill an otherwise fun night out.”

        Also this.

      • YaReally
        on July 8, 2013 at 10:09 pm
        Original Link

        About 7 minutes in:

        Nothing wrong with walking away. The whole badass ass-kicker thing is great when you’re young and healthy and don’t have kids to look after or anything and the guys you’re up against are guys you have a chance with.

        Learning to handle other guys with social skills and calm situations down is something that will come in handy when you’re past your prime and you have people who are affected by you ending up in jail or the hospital, or dead, because you desperately needed to look like a “man” to save face or get the scarce pussy you’re desperate not to look lame in front of.

on July 7, 2013 at 12:34 pm
Original Link

While I tend to agree philosophically with many of the things on this site, it frustrates me a bit that all the anecdotal displays of alpha tend to be of the “lolz yeah bro fuck dude whatevs” type. Can we get some more variety? I can’t imagine Charles Bronson talking like a 20 year old frat boy, and he was alpha as fuck.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:37 pm
    Original Link

    The bros are the easiest to demonstrate examples for because we’ve all run into that and there are dozens of them in every bar every weekend so it’s more common. It’s rare to run into a Charles Bronson trying to take your girls so it’s not as useful for guys learning to read about that.

    That said, if you learn to handle the bros, handling Charles isn’t much different. The concepts remain the same. It’s like if you’re learning to fight, there’s a point where you can take out average people with no problem, but then you run into someone else who’s a lot more experienced and more tight/precise and he might own you, but all you have to do is start tightening up your moves and figure out how to be more efficient/etc.

    Generally by the time Charles types are your competition, you’ve got enough experience to figure out how to handle him pretty quick on your own.

on July 7, 2013 at 12:42 pm
Original Link

Interesting people-watching field report, from last Friday evening.

I was at a sports bar in town that has several attractive female servers. I’ve been there a few times before, but this evening was particularly interesting because of the older drunk beta and the alpha.

There was a dude there who was a few years older than me, and had apparently had several already, because he was slurring his speech and being a loquacious but semi-nonsensical drunk. First, he was talking to the cute blonde server, asking what she wanted to hear on the jukebox, she said “anything but country”, and he said he couldn’t decide and asked her to choose. I said, “You don’t like country?” and upon her answering in the affirmative, I said, “I love country. How dare you… (grumble)” in a mock indignant voice. She cracked up, and said, “well, except for some songs!” A bit later, she casually mentioned to her coworkers who were sitting not far from me, but so that I would hear, how she would be here all next year, but would be gone for the rest of the month, except for next Tuesday.

The drunk beta talked to me for a bit (so I knew how old he was), mentioned he was “separated”, pointed out all the cute girls there, but that they were “dumb as shit.” I replied, “well, they’re girls” — they don’t seem either smarter or dumber than normal. He then went over and bothered the blonde waitress again, then a couple of girls who came into the bar; I knew one of the girls and saw they were getting annoyed with him, although they were laughing nervously a lot, so after about five minutes, went over to distract him which gave them a chance to get away. (I hate cockblockers, but in this case, he was too drunk to do anything more than make a total ass out of himself.) The bouncer had also come by and was hovering over him to make sure he wasn’t getting too fresh.

Meanwhile, with the blonde waitress, I expressed confusion about the aluminum bottles that beer are sometimes sold in, and also gave her trouble for pouring a leftover pitcher of beer down the sink, saying, “Ermagerd, you’re so lame!” in an Eric Cartman voice. She cracked up and always sounds like a little girl when she talks to me. Contrast that with the drunk dude who asked her what she wanted to hear: “Either rap or hip hop,” she replied in a completely neutral voice. When she was clearing off one table, the drunk dude went over and talked to her for about a minute, and then left the bar. She came over and talked to her coworkers in a mildly embarrassed fashion about him, although I couldn’t hear what she was saying, unlike earlier when she laid out her future plans. I had by then gotten introduced to the rest of the staff there getting them straight in my mind.

A bit later, an alpha and his attractive but skanky wife (she always shows a lot of skin) showed up; they either run or work at a different club in town. After a smoke break when I hung out with the bartender, the alpha, the bouncer, the female bartender who was there but not working that night, and her boyfriend, we went back inside. He too went up to the attractive blonde waitress and was chatting her up and telling her some crazy story. But he obviously knew how to charm girls and didn’t seem to care that his wife was nearby waiting for their drinks — or, that it was their “date night”. (One thing I should point out: the skanky wife makes eyes at me and tries to get my attention as if she finds me attractive, but that could be happening for a number of different reasons, and think nothing of it.) Not long after that, I left for a different bar.

The interesting thing about all this, of course, is observing all these interactions through the lens of what I’ve learned here.

  • Matthew King
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:30 pm
    Original Link

    Hitting on waitresses is hitting on strippers. The pretty ones are too battle-hardened from constant attention and flirtation to react well to direct approaches. It’s like she’s being poked and prodded all night, and you’re thinking somehow your pokey little finger is distinguishable from the others.

    Same thing with skankwife. She’s so battle-hardened against her hubby’s extracurricular flirtation that she stopped fighting it and rather joined the swing lifestyle, which is why she made eyes with you.

    If your target is the blonde waitress, why not play off the skankwife’s advances? There’s your indirect path to the waitress (being charmed by her husband), once the flirtation smog clears and it’s time to get down to business. It draws the attention of both blonde and alpha to your skills, requiring alpha to bring his focus back to skankwife (which is what she wanted all along), leaving the blonde potentially alone with you, the alpha’s demonstrated equal, and with a shared experience to talk about — “What’s up with those old people? I think they were trying to pick us both up for a foursome.”


    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 1:52 pm
      Original Link

      “The pretty ones are too battle-hardened from constant attention and flirtation to react well to direct approaches.”

      Nah, it’s do-able, and pretty consistently…but it depends on your value to her and her standard of value is a lot higher because of the sheer number of guys she meets trying to impress her.

      But if you gain high-value in her eyes, it’s no biggie. Like the Denny’s manager fucking all his waitresses. But you can gain that status thru solid game/confidence/etc. I have a buddy who doesn’t have a job etc. who picks up waitresses/shooter-girls/beer-tub girls fairly often. His game is pretty complicated but it’s just something he’s been doing for a long time so it’s second nature to him. It involves working the room and building up social proof and jealousy plotlines fast.

      “She’s so battle-hardened against her hubby’s extracurricular flirtation that she stopped fighting it and rather joined the swing lifestyle, which is why she made eyes with you.”

      Yup. Plus there’s the social-pressure based need for validation, ie – she’s worried everyone else is staring at her getting tooled by this younger girl so she wants attention to re-enforce to herself that she’s still “got it” and deserves her man. There’s also the possibility of a jealousy thing where she wants to make him jealous, but it sounds like hubby is like this all the time so I’d agree she’s too battle-hardened for this dynamic to be at play there (ie – she wants the attention more for her own validation/self-worth than to make him jealous because she knows he won’t get jealous because she’s been with him long enough to know that).

      “If your target is the blonde waitress, why not play off the skankwife’s advances? There’s your indirect path to the waitress (being charmed by her husband), once the flirtation smog clears and it’s time to get down to business.”

      Yep. This would be a solid play. Skankwife would be receptive, even if she didn’t want to actually fuck you, because she’s craving attention while her hubby dicks around. He’s probably too alpha to really consider you a threat but at the least you might be able to make buddies with him and socially proof yourself. Either way it’s all good things. He’s not going to come over and punch your lights out for flirting with his wife a bit because he’s alpha and charming and that’s not how those guys react.

      “and with a shared experience to talk about — “What’s up with those old people? I think they were trying to pick us both up for a foursome.””

      Yep. This is setting an “us VS them” frame where you have a “conspiracy” with the girl and build a commonality of being “together” VS something else (the room, other people, the world, etc.). Oldschool MM game but solid because it works.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:41 pm
    Original Link

    The old creepy drunk bitter guy is what other people picture you’re doing when you say “I went out to the bar by myself.” Because that’s what THEY would do, so they picture that that’s what you’re doing. They can’t even comprehend that you could take over that bar and socialize and have fun by yourself, with or without alcohol.

    That old drunk guy can’t get good because he’s blaming external things (“these girls are all stupid”) for his failures instead of looking at his own shit.

on July 7, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Original Link

@YaReally (and Scray and whoever else reads these, thanks!),

Well I started sucking ass again at the club, which is weird cuz I was so awesome before. This really isn’t a field report (cuz really nothing new has happened besides going out 3 nights in a row and realizing a few things).

1. I’m basically alone out here.

That pua I told you about is just a dude that went out a lot and learned game on his own. He has connections and introed me to his friends who are also good at game, but they’re a lot less worried (or even interested) in getting laid than I am. So I feel like, while I am approaching and stuff, it’s really just all on me to take it somewhere. And to be honest, I spent most of the time following him around to see what he does, but for 2 of the 3 nights, its been pretty awful for all of us. But they’re like “yeah, whatever I’ve got this other bitch anyways lol” and I’m like “um, hey, remember me? haven’t gotten laid in over a year. Could use some help.” It’s whatever I guess.

One of the nights we were just barhopping (me, the pua, and one of his friends) and the pua opens these two girls (both of which were very cute, but one was a little more chubby around the waist… basically she’d be hot as fuck if she was skinny, but instead she’s just okay/cute). So he’s talking to them and I’m feeling awesome from that other night when I was a boss and I didn’t really care about getting either of these girls. I could tell they weren’t into my pua buddy but they were both giving me iois lol (which I guess doesn’t matter since i never took it anywhere). It’s really pathetic cuz I was like waiting for the pua dude to be like ‘ask her if she has a car and go fuck her” or “go dance with her” but instead I just stood there and the pua dude was like fuck it I don’t care, so the two girls ended up leaving.

ASIDE: The convo almost went boringly logical about school again so I just implied she was retarded cuz she went to a worse school than me. I also couldn’t hear her so I told her whenever I can’t hear you I’m just going to assume you’re saying “I think you’re awesome”. So I replied with “yeah, I’m awesome, thanks” a few times.

“There’s a dancefloor upstairs” she says as she runs her hand up my neck. And there was like, no one upstairs. She was basically asking to be isolated, but I stood there like a retard…

Then the other girl I asked her about this necklace she was wearing which apparently was very special to her. (“You actually want to hear about it?” And I’m like “Um yeah why not?” Then she was kinda just into me after that).

The thing is they weren’t sober. So should I just bang girls who aren’t sober? Sigh I dunno dude, I feel like I’m just waiting for someone to tell me what to do just so I can feel like it’s okay to do it.

2. I’m definitely a Thrill of the Hunt type of dude.

Nothing surprising here.

3. I need to do daygame.

Cuz nothing scares me more than approaching girls when I’m not supposed to.

4. Need more negs.

Opening with a neutral “hello” is boring for me and the interaction never gets charged/polarizing. When I open with negs, they’re always more exciting. So yeah, going to try to remember to open with negs next time.

Well anyway, that’s pretty much it. And as for the girl, things look like they’re on the right track. My texts were flirty, asked for a meetup and she said she’s traveling for the 4th of July but we should do something the following week. Didn’t respond to my last flirty text, so the pua dude said I should wait until Monday and then text her something else he told me to send (it’s been 4 days).

Oh and Scray, don’t worry, I still suck… I think… it’s really all just mental. I’m awesome one night, and hilariously bad the next 3.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:53 pm
    Original Link

    I’ll give this a breakdown later in the week (swamped with work). Also Scray I still owe a follow-up on that last 30 day challenge report, I’ll get that up this week too. Haven’t forgotten, just been busy lol

on July 7, 2013 at 2:55 pm
Original Link

Don’t get it twisted though, i know many dudes in real life that would give you a instant slap round the face for that shit.

  • immoralgables
    on July 7, 2013 at 2:56 pm
    Original Link

    No you don’t, and no they wouldn’t.

    Try again next week.

    - Everybody

    • bob
      on July 7, 2013 at 4:02 pm
      Original Link

      We’ve all seen this video where Tyler finally meets a real guy in some club’s bathroom. I hoped he would’ve AMOGed him too, but I guess he wasn’t “in state” or something, right?

      • immoralgables
        on July 7, 2013 at 4:29 pm
        Original Link


        No. I don’t have the energy to engage you tuff keyboard jockey’s but realize this. How you THINK you will behave in a crowded lounge and around lots of high-value people, is much different from how you ACTUALLY will behave when someone tries to AMOG you.

        Fights don’t happen as often as you think. A lot of situations are handled deftly when you don’t even realize your value is getting lowered. The same guys touting their MMA skills are usually to slow to counter-act the verbal ju-jitsu that goes down and takes milliseconds to successfully process. Why’s that? Because they spend all of their hours inside an MMA ring and not going out, Bob.

        But tuff-guy, before you start salivating over your keyboard, please read this comment first. Hopefully it expands your horizons a little bit; seeing that you don’t get it from going out:

        ^ This is on fighting.

        • YaReally
          on July 8, 2013 at 1:58 pm
          Original Link

          Every bar hires big scary-ass bouncers. But to upper management who wants everyone to have fun and keep spending money and keep his club’s reputation clean as a welcome fun environment, the best bouncers are the ones who can de-escalate a situation with smooth social skills and basic authoritative dominance before they get out of hand to where the big scary-ass bouncers have to start taking people down and bottles are flying.

      • YaReally
        on July 8, 2013 at 1:56 pm
        Original Link

        No, he has calibration. It’s what people who aren’t Aspergy have, where you read the situation and calibrate your actions to how the other person is feeling. In a situation like that where the guy is in a chaotic rage, you back off calmly (or even run away). Most situations aren’t there and don’t escalate to there if you’re good with your social skills and understand psychology.

        Why do you think cops don’t just jump out of the car guns blazing at every scene they get called to? They calibrate and try to keep things from escalating first.

        Fuck, it’s like I have to hold your dick for you so you hit the toilet.

    • liam
      on July 7, 2013 at 6:17 pm
      Original Link

      Oh i think they would. If they for 1 second thought you were trying to mug them it it would be curtains for you. I’m not talking about wannabes here i’m talking about serious dudes that do not play silly little games.

      • immoralgables
        on July 7, 2013 at 6:22 pm
        Original Link


        I know who you’re talking about. You’re not the first guy to come here with the tough talk about future scenarios that likely will not happen.

        It’s a common pattern I see so I’m not “surprised” by what you’re saying. We expect people like you to come here and give their two cents about how this shit doesn’t fly in the real-world.

        But when it does fly, and when there are multiple people who actually go out and who can actually back-up what OP says and not only that, but their own experiences jive with what’s being said, well, it doesn’t seem very likely that your fantasies are going to play out.

        I experience them to. I really do. I imagine these fake arguments in my head all the time and how I will always come out ahead. This usually happens in the shower or in the gym.

        • liam
          on July 7, 2013 at 6:29 pm
          Original Link

          I’m not saying it doesn’t fly in the real world you clown, i’m saying there will be scenarios when this shit will backfire. A waiter looked at my mates bird whilst out at dinner…….he went and stabbed him 16 times in the toilet. There will be times when this shit doesn’t work in real life…..i’m not saying all the time i’m saying sometimes. You think reality is 100% predictable… are delusional, get back to your crackpipe.

          • YaReally
            on July 8, 2013 at 2:03 pm
            Original Link

            “I’m not saying it doesn’t fly in the real world you clown, i’m saying there will be scenarios when this shit will backfire.”

            Yes, there are psychos out there. You avoid those psychos and you get away from the situation when you realize you’re around one. You learn to tell who these people are in advance by going out a lot and learning to read people’s body-language and attitude and calibrating to them and learning when someone is a psycho who’s going to stab you 16 times in a bathroom.

            This is why we don’t stress this AMOG stuff very much to newbies. The fucking Asperger dipshits like this will get themselves killed because they haven’t figured out that when someone says “IF YOU TALK TO MY GIRL AGAIN I’M GOING TO STAB YOUR FACE IN HALF AHAHGHGHGHGHGHAHGRHGRGHGHGHG” means you run away instead of trying to tell them “nice shirt bro, I had one like that in junior high!”

            “A waiter looked at my mates bird whilst out at dinner…….he went and stabbed him 16 times in the toilet.”

            More dynamics went on than that. Going by your post, you are probably too socially-inept to have noticed any of them though, so I won’t get into the dozens of little things that probably went down to lead to the stabbing or the dozens of ways the guy could’ve avoided it.

  • Matthew King
    on July 8, 2013 at 1:04 pm
    Original Link

    immoralgables wrote:

    No you don’t, and no they wouldn’t. Try again next week. – Everybody,

    No, not “everybody.” You are a group of self-reinforcing mythologizers, led around like puppies by

    Men do fight, and it’s not always out of insecurity, you post-masculine sell-out fairies. It’s fine that you hold your manhoods cheap — whatever. But this mythic superiority which you build up around your self-castration is risible. It’s to the point where you actively disbelieve in the possibility of men acting like men.

    I’ve seen boys rationalize away their cowardice, it’s almost understandable, especially in that “laugh[s] at honor.” But are you really such pussies that you have to make an entire ideology out of your back-down, chucklehead, sissy-runaway instinct?

    In a sort of ghastly simplicity we remove the organ and demand the function. We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and bid the geldings be fruitful.

    Moreover, it’s not about the fight so much as it is the ability to fight given the circumstance. Just as peace is negotiated through strength. Just as large militaries prevent war. Just as having access to firepower often obviates the need to use that firepower. That’s why Colt called its bestselling gun “The Peacemaker.” That guy looks like he can handle himself = fewer challenges to his authority. But when the spunky little-man syndrome boys do challenge his authority, he has to be able to back it up with something more than snarktastic rebuttals.

    I have never seen a group of “men” so spontaneously and systematically defend cowardice. It is positively puke-inducing. And if you think the sarcastic fleeing twerp is somehow attractive to women, then you’ve never in your lives truly confronted a man.


    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 2:10 pm
      Original Link

      “I have never seen a group of “men” so spontaneously and systematically defend cowardice.”

      Again, like I wrote to some other dude in another thread: your problem is that you think we care if you think we’re men or not. Like you believe you have this value and that when you say we’re fairies, sissies, pussies, cowards, blah blah blah, that we should be affected by that. Ultimately you’re simply socially conditioned into believing that men have to act a certain way to be considered men and it annoys you that none of us give a shit what you think.

      Here’s what I think when a guy wants to fight me over a girl in a bar: “I’ve just met this girl and barely know her or give a shit about her. I can meet 10 other girls who look just like her. This guy wants to cave my head in…maybe I can take him, maybe I can’t but either way I’m risking disfigurement, smacking my head on a stool if I go down, paralysis, lawsuits, jail-time, who knows I might accidentally kill him. On the plus side, some people I don’t know and will probably never see again will think I’m a “man”.

      Doing a quick little mathematical calculations on all this: Ya, I’mma walk away. You can have her bro. I’ll go to another bar now and talk to a girl who’s just as hot as her.”

      But you do what you like…you’re in your basement talking big about manliness from your armchair anyway, so it doesn’t really matter lol

      • Matthew King
        on July 8, 2013 at 2:23 pm
        Original Link

        … your problem is that you think we care if you think we’re men or not.

        Oh. No. I am quite sure you don’t care. You have all loudly confessed as much.

        • Scray
          on July 8, 2013 at 2:57 pm
          Original Link

          Well….my only question would be this: isn’t violence, esp in a public place, a man’s last recourse when he’s lost all other power? For example, if a low-value fuckwit were giving you a hard time….who cares? If the group believes he’s low-value, there’s no threat.

          But, when some high-value jerk comes over and tools you, then the group starts laughing at you. You try to nonreact/engage in banter to no avail. Then, when you’ve exhausted your options and been beaten on every possible level….you retaliate with violence.

          In a lot of ways, violence is the ultimate expression of powerlessness. You so desperately want the other person to react and acknowledge/validate you that you will literally beat it out of them.

          • YaReally
            on July 8, 2013 at 5:37 pm
            Original Link

            Scray is right. The guys who turn to violence are either unhinged legit psychos (like the weird homeless guy who stumbled into the bar and is drinking in a corner) or they’re guys who don’t have any better way to “win” so they resort to violence because they’re powerless and it’s the easiest way to vent that powerlessness and try to take power back.

            No, I don’t fight. I don’t have to. But I hang with guys who DO fight, regularly (in the ring and on the streets/bars, some of them literally believe that a night out drinkin should end in either fucking or fighting and pick fights if they don’t get laid), who are a lot tougher than half the eBadasses here, and the pattern is very blatant.

            This is also why a lot of good fighters don’t get into fights, because they know some bar brawl with a loser talking shit is beneath them.

            Matt and Greg live in a fantasy world.


            If you’re resorting to violence over what a man says to you, it’s because you hold his opinion higher than your own.

            And if you’re resorting to violence over a woman, it’s because you know you can’t go down the street and get another one just as good or better.

            Both of those come from insecurity and scarcity.

on July 7, 2013 at 3:36 pm
Original Link

going on a tirade that long about another man working out is just sad. there’s a difference between playing the dozens (male neg hits on each other) and completely ingratiating yourself in the offchance the guy is a greater beta and not the alpha he looks…… cause if you try to pull that on a real alpha he would just clown your ass.

in other words he would “too long; didn’t read” you and win the girls you two are so pathetically competing over.

but good point about the ego, sounds about right.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 2:15 pm
    Original Link

    “going on a tirade that long about another man working out is just sad.”

    You use as much as you need to. Some guys will cave when you just stare at them expressionless instead of saying anything, and then they start to stammer and fill in the silence because they were expecting you to fawn over their accomplishments and they can’t handle the social pressure of silence, and that’s all you need to do.

    Some guys are more aggressive and the dynamics with the girls you’re with are more chaotic and you have to spit a little more out. You stop when he’s reacting to you and you have higher-value to the girls.

    This is called calibration. It’s what separates social cool guys from weird Aspergies who go out and spout memorizes routines word for word regardless of their circumstances or the other person’s reactions.

    “cause if you try to pull that on a real alpha he would just clown your ass.”

    And then you learn from how he clowns your ass, so that the next time you’re in that situ, you can use it. That’s how this stuff was learned…this is all stuff that Natural alphas do, we’re just backwards engineering it.

    If you get into an AMOG battle with someone who’s good, it can go back and forth for a while. The irony is that usually if you’re both good, you end up respecting eachother instead of fighting because you’re both like “lol this guy’s a boss too, we’d get along good” and become buddies for the night.

    How do I know this? Because I’ve fucking done this a shitload and so have other guys who go out regularly.

on July 7, 2013 at 3:39 pm
Original Link

@YaReally: Ever since I read that comment, I really wanted to ask:

What are some of the things you did over time to get yourself more Internally-Validated & free from External-Approval-Seeking/Value-Vacuum?

I would be very interested to hear your process on this!

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    Original Link

    Got old. lol.

    No but seriously, you just challenge yourself. Spend a month going out without doing your hair but still approaching lots of girls. If you wear a suit normally, go out in a t-shirt and jeans. If you have a good job, tell girls you work at McDonald’s. etc. etc.

    You basically have to shit on your external Identity so you teach your brain “okay I thought I had to have a good job to get girls, but I’ve gotten laid like 5 times and all these girls think I work at McDonald’s so wtf?? I guess my job DOESN’T matter…” and then you re-watch Fight Club and you finally understand the message about “You are not your fucking khakis.” :)

    This is a long, slow process. And it’s a process that most people will fight against and society will try to pressure you into giving up at (“bro, where’s your suit?? we gotta’ wear suits tonight man, you can’t get girls without the suit! I’m wearing my suit, c’mon man don’t make me be the only suit guy!” or a TV commercial “buy the new Ferrari 5000 blah blah, look at this hot girl who’s crawling on it, hot girls only like guys with a Ferrari” etc. etc.).

    That’s why most guys don’t do it, and that’s why most guys are externally validated.

    You have to understand: These guys with the suits and the 6-packs and the money and shit…they THINK they’re winning. In their mind, they are achieving all these goals society set for them and told them that women were attracted to…they have NO idea how fragile their self-esteem actually is, so they don’t BOTHER learning to base their self-worth internally, because they have suits and money and nice cars, so they CAN base their self-worth externally because they have those external things. And around other guys stuck in the same rat race mindset, they beat those guys at that game.

    But their self-esteem is built like a house of cards. They lose their job, or gain 1% bodyfat or run into someone who isn’t impressed with their achievements, and it all comes crashing down. They don’t even understand the dynamics behind what just happened…their brain thinks “dammit I lost the girls, it’s because I still have that extra 1% of bodyfat, oh man i gotta hit the gym harder :( :( maybe if I work a few more overtime shifts and make some more $ for a nicer model of car, then this won’t happen!!” and run right back into the unwinnable race…

    They can’t comprehend the concept that they could just feel good and awesome all the time based on nothing, like that that could be their default state, because society conditioned them to believe that you can’t be happy until you have all this other external shit handled. It’s the same way girls are conditioned to believe they have no worth if they aren’t pretty…except that dynamic is a little different because technically in the sexual marketplace it’s true lol

    But it’s all the same concept in action, and one you can take advantage of when you understand it.

on July 7, 2013 at 3:50 pm
Original Link

Now to connect two seemingly distant dots:

YaReally proves why the USA can not and will not have a resurgence in manufacturing jobs (or any skilled job) for the immediate future.

No one will willingly pursue a job that requires years of investment when all it takes is a little frame control to tarnish it.

In the land of Protestant work ethic, the PUA is king. And in the land of feminism, men will not reappear.

What is worse: being a five year old and being made fun of for wearing red shoes? Or being 35 years old and being made fun of by another man for investing twenty years in personal achievement?

I hope Rooshvers and Return of King readers recognize that the advocacy of this post is not hitting the gym and working hard.

  • cryo
    on July 7, 2013 at 5:31 pm
    Original Link

    I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say here. That all male endeavors outside of pussy hounding will be rendered extinct?
    Believe it or not, there are achievements to be had in life that are far more rewarding than laying a harlot. The men with inspiration and drive will never be satisfied with a life of meaningless caddish behavior.

    • Matthew King
      on July 8, 2013 at 1:35 pm
      Original Link

      … there are achievements to be had in life that are far more rewarding than laying a harlot.

      Well said, but WRONG WEBSITE, brother. Even hinting at this possibility makes you an omega to the pua-pod-people.

      • yeahokcool
        on July 8, 2013 at 1:50 pm
        Original Link

        you have consistently suggested that these goals are mutually exclusive. that is simply not true. you can lay a harlot (or lots of them) while simultaneously pursuing academic or professional success.

        • YaReally
          on July 8, 2013 at 2:39 pm
          Original Link

          This. That’s our point. Bang girls now. Be happy now. Enjoy the journey.

          Don’t wait for the end before you can finally allow yourself to be happy and approach girls, because 1) there IS no end because you let society determine your values for you and 2) you will be unequipped to get/keep girls at that point because you didn’t go out and socialize and learn to attract women while you were working your way up.

          • YaReally
            on July 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm
            Original Link

            Tyler’s example at 3:05 into this video:

          • YaReally
            on July 8, 2013 at 5:48 pm
            Original Link


            lol always so short-sighted.

            ““Be happy now” and “enjoy the journey” is pseudophilosophy inherited from you know not where.”

            It’s inherited from: being happy feels good and I enjoy it and other people are happier when I’m around them being happy so we all feel good.

            But you feel free to stew and wallow in misery and self-loathing…your grandmother upstairs will be making dinner for you even if you feel like your life is a sad dark clown lol

            “Michael Phelps spent eight hours a day for a decade in the pool to swim a fraction of a second better than anyone on the planet, ever”

            Ask him if he enjoys swimming and if he liked the feeling of gaining each fraction of a second better as he trained. And ask Michael Jordan if he enjoyed being on the court even when he was a kid and not a pro yet.

            I’m really used to better arguments from you, you don’t have Greg writing your posts for you these days, do you?

            “If you had told yourself to “be happy now” at any point in your “journey” to accomplishment you’d have hit the bong and the HD-porn and the Xbox years ago.”

            I enjoy sticking my dick in girls, as well as their general company. You may feel different, and that’s cool too..I support your homosexual experiments with Greg and hope you two will be very happy together.

        • Matthew King
          on July 8, 2013 at 2:42 pm
          Original Link

          Direct my attention to the quotes wherein I “consistently suggested that these goals are mutually exclusive.”

          They only become “mutually exclusive” when you allow the lower instincts to dictate the higher ones. Or — since I know you are a man of letters who studied Plato — when you allow epithumia in concert with thumos to dominate nous.

          Insofar as you are focused on the demands of your groin and expecting that to translate into accomplishment, yes, “these goals are mutually exclusive.” Insofar as you are focused on accomplishment and expecting that to translate into a bounty for your groin, yes, you can have your cake and eat it.

          As someone we both respect once said, “You shall make your mission, not your woman, your priority.”


      • YaReally
        on July 8, 2013 at 2:38 pm
        Original Link

        One day I’ll just link a fuckton of videos from PUAs in every company where they’re all saying to work on your health, career, have goals, etc. in response to you posting stupid shit like this.

        You’ve been here for like 5 years. In that time you still haven’t done any kind of research into the subject you rant and rave about. It’s like you’re proud of being ignorant.

  • Scray
    on July 7, 2013 at 6:41 pm
    Original Link

    ‘No one will willingly pursue a job that requires years of investment when all it takes is a little frame control to tarnish it.’

    You mean people will actually have to learn to internally deal with adversity and follow their own path? No, anything but that.

    Ever since I’ve started working out, people have given me shit for it —-especially in the last two or three months because I’ve gotten insanely strict about my diet. Now that my face is starting to change — losing that bodyfat — I get more bullshit. And ya, I’ll get weird looks or someone trying to tool me when I order a salad at a restaurant. At first, it had the desired effect — blah blah qualify, blah blah.

    But I mean….one day it just clicked. lol….how the fuck could getting fit EVER be a bad thing? In WHAT world? lol. So ya, now if someone wants to make a fuss ‘o man ordering a salad in a restaurant…whaaaaaaat…lol, wow dude’ I just kind of shrug ‘hey, sometimes it’s lonely at the top, dudebros’ and leave it at that — no fucks beyond are given. They’ll try to keep needling you at first….but the best response is to just smile silently while they laugh, joke, ask you questions — it’s always ‘let me ask you this…..(some stupid bullshit trap question, the answering of which means you are qualifying)’….to which I just smile…’I'm glad you’re so curious about it. There’s a lot of info online.’ As if he’s your biggest fan.

    So ya, now apply that to the other shit — a career that you’ve built up for decades, a nice car, a nice watch, etc. In WHAT world can those possibly be bad? When you let a guy tool you, you’re saying ‘I don’t really deserve all of these nice things I have.’ When you just act like he’s a fan, you say ‘ya, I’m awesome THEREFORE I have all of these nice things.’ They can only be reframed if your frame about them is weak.

    I mean, sometimes there are AMOGs who are REALLY, REALLY, REALLY good at what they do, and they’ll get under your skin…but you know….that adversity builds you.

    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 2:46 pm
      Original Link

      “And ya, I’ll get weird looks or someone trying to tool me when I order a salad at a restaurant. At first, it had the desired effect — blah blah qualify, blah blah.

      But I mean….one day it just clicked. lol….how the fuck could getting fit EVER be a bad thing? In WHAT world? lol. So ya, now if someone wants to make a fuss ‘o man ordering a salad in a restaurant…whaaaaaaat…lol, wow dude’ I just kind of shrug ‘hey, sometimes it’s lonely at the top, dudebros’ and leave it at that — no fucks beyond are given.”

      This. Solid. Very solid. You’ve come a retardedly long way from your first posts where you’d get butt-hurt over people giving you shit. But you earned it because you’ve put in all the work to earn it. Good stuff dude.

      And yes, this basically describes it…one day the switch flips (sometimes it flips back depending on the environment and circumstances etc. and you have to keep flipping it again until it learns to stay flipped in those situs), and you just let go and realize that reacting is dumb and that literally the notion of determining your worth based on other people’s opinion of you is silly. It actually becomes a ridiculous notion to you, that anyone could make fun of your salad and expect you to take that seriously.

      This extrapolates to a ton of areas of game.

  • derthal
    on July 8, 2013 at 2:52 am
    Original Link

    What’s a problem? If someone complimenting you just take compliment and say “thank you”.

    - “wow man you’re ripped that awesome. You must spend all day in the gym hey, you must be going for a 2am workout after the bar tonight to stay that jacked lol I wish I had that kind of dedication but I’m a lazy fuck (pat my belly and make the girls rub it). I love good food too much, I have to get a steak when I’m at a restaraunt, I’d be embarrassed to order a salad lol you got way more balls than me man”
    - O, thank you. You seem to know a lot of about renaissance concepts.

    End of topic.

    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 2:52 pm
      Original Link

      Yep, this is pretty much the way to handle it. “Thanks man!” and even compliment them back. This can lead to funny situs where two guys are “fighting” over a girl by trying to out-compliment eachother, which is hilariously absurd to see when it happens, especially when you don’t understand the little sub-communication dynamics going on.

      The only reason you can end up needing more than a “Thank you!” to thwart what I’m doing is that the situation I’m doing it in is a chaotic club environment so you better have something fascinating as fuck to follow-up that “thank you!” with to keep the girls’ attention or you will fade into the background because you didn’t make yourself HIGHER value than me, you just made yourself NOT low value…but at the same time, I have a fuckton of chick crack to throw at the girls to spike their emotions and I know to isolate them from you and lead them around etc., so ya, you didn’t lose value, but I’m still skyrocketing my value with the girls and I will take them.

      In the daytime in a more chill environment, with some guy who doesn’t really have any game, and girls who aren’t going anywhere or girls in your social circle that you see a lot, ya, a simple “Thanks dude!” can be enough.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 2:35 pm
    Original Link

    “No one will willingly pursue a job that requires years of investment when all it takes is a little frame control to tarnish it.”

    Fortunately, most guys don’t WANT to be the jobless alcoholic bum anymore than you do, even if they can get laid doing that. We take this to extremes to expand the knowledge-base of human psychology and fully understand the extents of the art-form of seduction…but we aren’t the common man. Most guys DO want to do something with their lives, for their own personal validation.

    All we’re doing is showing that hey, instead of waiting until you’re a doctor and have 10% bodyfat, why not start approaching girls now and learning to flirt with them while you earn those things…because they WILL fuck you before you earn those things.

    “What is worse: being a five year old and being made fun of for wearing red shoes? Or being 35 years old and being made fun of by another man for investing twenty years in personal achievement?”

    lol this is actually the exact same feeling of social-pressure, and it’s why the 35yo guy feels “icky” and frustrated and wants to cry just like he did when kids made fun of his shoes at 5 years old. Most people don’t learn how to handle that social-pressure. I use this a lot in group dynamics if I have to “discipline” people…put social-pressure on them until they get uncomfortable and make sure they understand what actions led to that, and then lift it from them, rinse & repeat until they stop that behavior. This isn’t just for tooling guys or making bitchy girls be nice, it’s for like, calming your rowdy drunk buddy down, or getting someone to quit talking about negative subjects that bring the group energy down, etc.

on July 7, 2013 at 4:21 pm
Original Link

Interesting Observations from a weekend for the 4th of July:

We went out to this megabar in one of the nicer towns. It was me, my roommate and five of his fraternity brothers. This was one of the better frats at a large state school and based off my observations and the demeanor in which they carry themselves, I have no reason to think that they were losers at college or didn’t pull and hang around a lot of cute girls.

But check this out.

We were standing at this bar and the ratio was probably moreso in our favor. We were in a diff town than the one we lived in, were only there for a weekend and were all a little buzzed. Guess who did most if not all of the approaching?

At first of all us stood there and at this point I had really gotten into my head and was worried about getting rejected in front of my roommate and his buddies. Illogical fear that consumes you to the point where I had to first start-off by making small-talk in the smoking section and with an old man at the bar while I was ordering a drink. I knew the trouble that being socially rusty can cause so I spent 20 minutes warming up.

We decide to go downstairs where the action was at with me leading the crew.

1) First two-set HB6s arguing over something. I interrupt and ask them if they seem okay. I say it again and slowly, and at this point they’re intrigued because what could possibly be wrong. I tell them I’m asking because they seemed to not be getting enough male attention and I wanted to make sure they were alright. They laughed and responded and there was this brief window where I could have took the set and ran with it some more but I wasn’t mentally there yet.

2) Two-set but this time one is an hb6 and one an hb7. I come up and use the same line and they immediately smile and open and we chat for about three minutes and I’m running my usual routines. One lives a couple blocks away in NYC and the HB7 lives further downtown. “Oh what a shame, we wouldn’t workout…I don’t do long distance.” I then introduce them to my roommate but literally had to drag him to them as he was worried what his frat buddies would think. I would stop talking and the HB7 would engage me with her style of banter and there were a ton of IOIs. I’d go to get a water and when I come back they were happy to see me and I’d apologize for hurting them and leaving them (saying this sarcastically). I def missed a moment to escalate and/or get a number from both of them as I was still trying to chat everyone up.

3) This tall HB8.5 brunette walks through the room and eyes turn on her. My roommate makes a comment on how hot she is and he pivots himself accordingly to approach. He hesitates a second too long and as she almost walks by I grab her by the elbow and stop her. “Excuse me, this is totally random but you look just…like…my future ex-girlfriend.” She moves a step away then leans back in laughing with this huge smile. She asks me what i said and I repeat myself and at this point my brain was in full-retard mode.
I didn’t know what to say next as I didn’t expect this to go that far and my roomie was in shock too. She knew it as well but as she walked away she looked back and mouthed “bye” and there was the briefest window where she WANTED me to back it up with something more than the opener. It’s still a mind-fuck to me that it worked but mind you, I’m 5’8 and she was pushing 5’11. How many guys like me opened direct? Hmmm, the more “off the radar” you are with certain girls (let’s say HB8s and up), the more receptive they can be to you because it’s almost as-if value is assumed from the get-go. You have to have something going on if you approach directly like that. I’ve noticed this pattern from going out and from the ~5 positive interactions I’ve had from approaching about HB8+ directly.

Props to commenter “PimpinBlueStar” from this quote I’m stealing:

“The simple act of approaching a hot girl, not trying to show out or need anythign from her and just being totally self accepting that you are enough for her as is — this may be the highest value thing that one can do for themselves.”

The rest of the time at this venue I was opening sets, high-fiving girls when they took shots, coming back to mixed groups I had opened and just being social. Guess what the frat-stars were doing. I’m not hating on them though, all cool guys and I’m sure they were just trying to catch up and hang-out like normal social dudes.

The grand finale came at the end. There was this really cute, tan HB7 Asian standing in a 5-set of girls all HB6s and above. I could tell who the Queen Bee Alpha-chick was and as my roommate discussed how to approach the Asian, I told him to befriend the group first. I had no idea how-to but thought of some YaReally shit I’ve read in the past.

I opened the two least attractive ones closest to me indirectly and used some chick-bait about how them and there friends seemed like alpha girls and that they were probably mean if need be. The girls got what I was saying and then one of them deferred the “Alpha Chick” title to the girl who I thought was the Queen Bee. I told her to introduce and the Queen Bee was pretty incredible to try to tame. I talked to her at first using some cocky/funny but also alluding to how her friends told me that she was the Alpha Girl of the group and she totally ate it up.

The frat buddies were all watching this go down and I felt like the stakes were high. The Queen Bee (with her back-turned to her group) rattled off the names of the girls in the group and immediately I stepped to each girl (as they were standing in a circle) and called them by their names. One-by-one, as I said their names, their eyes lit up and they went buck-wild when I got one of them wrong at the end (4/5 ain’t bad). Still, I displayed some kind of social dominance and I made sure to high-five the girl whose name I slightly messed up.
The alpha-chick and I continue to talk and she starts qualifying me hard-core. I didn’t want to go into dancing monkey mode so I gave some serious answers in regards to where I live. When she asks age, I tell her to guess and if she gets it right she gets a kiss. She guesses it right and I playfully pull her in but she rebuffs me. I’d say 50% because in front of her friends and 50% because not enough comfort(?)/attraction(?). It really didn’t matter and if anything I think it helped.

But at one point I cut her off and tell her how it’s funny that it seems like she was conducting an interview. Her eyes lit up and she told me she likes to know if certain guys are with it or not. I just stop and stare at her and she busts out laughing, as if she couldn’t believe her own bs. From there, I tell her that her friends and my friends should meet-up later and I go to push for the number close.

Weird: As I’m number closing she tells me that she should take my number and she’ll decide if she’ll call me. I just stare at her blankly and she busts out laughing again like she couldn’t believe her own bullshit. Fellas, I’ve heard the “Hm, no, but let me take your number down line” and I know it doesn’t lead to anywhere positive. It’s either that by me being non-reactive and just staring, it tore down that wall of hers or she was kidding off the get-go. Interesting enough.

I take her number down, her friends had stepped to the other side of the bar and she goes to meet but I pull her in for a hug and some kino. No it wasn’t a “I’m trying to fuck you vibe” but she def was attracted and I was able to score a number of the Alpha Girl of the group, with the option to meet her and her 5 friends later if it panned out. It was very good vibes though as I left the venue and said bye to her. It was incredible.

I did this while the guys I came with stood in the corner, beers chest-high and joked among themselves.

One thing I notice, when you go out with people who are aware of how you try to pick up girls, you tend to not pick-up girls. You get inside your head, you have this identity you want to protect, and you’ll be damned if you put yourself on the line, get rejected and see that identity crumble to pieces.

I felt like the same thing was going on with the frat buddies. They didn’t want to take the first step. The same thing happens when I go out with guys in the NYC Lair, we have these personas we built up that we don’t want to damage. Realizing that made me push and become social at that bar this weekend.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 3:05 pm
    Original Link

    “I felt like the same thing was going on with the frat buddies. They didn’t want to take the first step.”

    You’ll find that a lot of Natural alphas won’t cold approach, but will HAPPILY jump in when YOU cold approach and try to take over your set and block you out with their body-language and keep the girl’s attention from you etc. lol I call this Vulture Game. It’s annoying but it’s funny because the underlying reason for it is that they’re too chickenshit to approach.

    “The same thing happens when I go out with guys in the NYC Lair, we have these personas we built up that we don’t want to damage. Realizing that made me push and become social at that bar this weekend.”

    Good. Perfect. This is the lesson to take away from this and this is an important lesson to always remind yourself. I actually go out with the intention of making an ass out of myself first because I know it’ll put me in a good headspace and it’ll give my group permission to risk getting shot down themselves because “hey, it can’t be as bad as YaReally lol”. It makes for a better night for everyone.

    I’ll break down your FR in more detail this week when I do Scray and Hunters, there’s a lot of cool little dynamics going on.

    You did great, good job on that all-girl set…I used to actually focus on those sets because I would go out solo a lot and I could build quick social proof by approaching and working a bachelorette party or birthday party…it meant I was regularly diving into 5-10+ sets of girls at the start of the night stone cold sober, but I learned a lot about how to work those groups (same way you did, figure out the leader and charm her so she allows you access to her girls). Even if I don’t bang any of the girls out of that group (which often is too hard to do because they don’t want to be slutty in front of their judgemental friends by going home with a guy etc.), all the guys in the bar think I’m a boss and all the girls are turned on and wondering who I am that I could rock a group like that…plus I walk out of it in an unstoppable state.

    AND the girls themselves have fun because I was the only guy who’d approach them sober, fun, charming, ballsy, spiking their emotions, teasing them, etc. that early in the night. I basically get their night started. So it’s win/win/win for everyone. This is spreading value. :)

  • Cragsleeper
    on July 9, 2013 at 1:56 pm
    Original Link

    Solid stuff, inspiring even. I like how you don’t let potential mental setbacks stall you out during the set and instead keep charging forward. Several times in your writeup I could see myself getting into a negative thought process and derailing things, a personal hurdle.

    Quick note from my own experience, the guys you’re hanging out with can really be a huge influence in either direction. I have too much experience with losers who huddle together in the bar talking only to each other and if one of us dares speak to a girl & gets shot down, the group makes fun of him for the rest of the night. Such self-defeating bullshit. However, by contrast I do have one true friend who watched me get shot down hard at the gym and he hasn’t busted on me once for it.

    Of course, what others think shouldn’t be important at all, but it’s still so much better if you’re out with guys who get how this works and support each other rather than acting like defeated betas. Before someone points out the obvious – yes, I have so much experience hanging with losers because I was one myself.

    • YaReally
      on July 9, 2013 at 2:07 pm
      Original Link

      “I have too much experience with losers who huddle together in the bar talking only to each other and if one of us dares speak to a girl & gets shot down, the group makes fun of him for the rest of the night. Such self-defeating bullshit. However, by contrast I do have one true friend who watched me get shot down hard at the gym and he hasn’t busted on me once for it. ”

      This is HUGE, especially when you’re starting out. Even now, one of my social circles has a lot of negative guys in it…they’re all super alpha and Naturals and shit, but they don’t cold-approach, only warm-approach, and they love to talk shit all night and tool eachother for getting shot down.

      They’re nice dudes overall, would give you the shirt off their backs, BUT when it comes to women, it’s a competition to them and survival of the fittest, and their attitude is completely detrimental to my making progress and having a fun night. So when I go out with them, I just go out to drink and dick around.

      The nights I know I’ll make the most progress and achieve some personal goals etc. are the nights when I’m out with my supportive friends who all talk eachother up and literally we’ll say stuff like “man, I feel bad for the other guys in the bar with us there, we’re too good looking, fuck!” to eachother and laugh off blowouts etc. with eachother and encourage eachother to push through bad headspaces.

      It’s really important, especially when you’re new, to be selective of who you hang out. It’s 1000x better to go out solo even if it’s scary as fuck at 34, or even go out with one lame buddy who’s not good with girls but has a positive attitude and will approach with you now and then, than to go out with negative people who will keep you down crabs-in-a-bucket style and don’t WANT you to get better than them.

      I’ve literally told friends of guys who are working on learning game “look man, you gotta’ quit talking shit to him about this ’cause he’s pretty serious about it and it’s important to him, and there’s a point where he’s going to cut all the negative people out of his life and only want to be around people who support him…if you want to still be his buddy down the road, you gotta’ get on the positive side of that line.”

on July 7, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Original Link

Your top commenter thinks too much about this. Therefore I think he is a homo.

  • itsme
    on July 8, 2013 at 9:54 am
    Original Link

    nah, i think it’s more like he runs into amogs so often that he already knows what responses work well with them. he doesn’t have to ‘think too much’ about it, any more than you have to ‘think too much’ about breathing in and out.

    • YaReally
      on July 8, 2013 at 3:08 pm
      Original Link

      4 stages of learning shit:

      1) unconscious incompetance
      2) conscious incompetance
      3) conscious competence
      4) unconscious competence

      I’m at stage 4 with this. But I started at stage 1 lol

      Michael Jordan didn’t just know how to shoot a basketball…he learned it step by step, put in hours of practice, learned all the little dynamics that the half-assing-it guys don’t figure out, put in more hours of practice, and then when he was playing for the Bulls he just “knew” how to shoot it and didn’t have to think of any of that.

      Exact same shit. But go ahead and make fun of Michael lol

      • Matthew King
        on July 8, 2013 at 3:16 pm
        Original Link

        Does not jibe with “Be happy now.”

        If you want to teach the kiddies, you need to think through your platitudes to the end. You have no idea when you’re giving contradictory counsel.

        But that would require you to let go of the fantasy that you’re “at stage 4 with this … lol.” So you are trapped in the spin cycle of your own intellectual vapidity.

        • YaReally
          on July 8, 2013 at 5:01 pm
          Original Link

          How does it not jibe?

          Do you think Michael didn’t enjoy shooting basketballs or enjoy learning to or enjoy playing when he was a kid? You should enjoy the journey, not just the end result.

          • YaReally
            on July 9, 2013 at 11:12 am
            Original Link

            Ya man, you’re nuts. The journey is half the fun. If you can’t find a way to enjoy the process then do something else. Even gettin blown out by girls is fun, who cares?

            Life is short…society’s gameplan, of being miserable till you retire and get to finally enjoy life when you can’t get your dick up anymore, and then have a heart attack a year later? That’s a recipe for a pretty depressing life, to me.

            But you do whatever you like, it’s your life.

          • YaReally
            on July 9, 2013 at 1:37 pm
            Original Link


            “Nor do you fool yourself and pretend a strict regimen of diet and exercise constitutes “happiness” along the “journey.””

            That’s weird, cause I could point you to the forums where there are thousands of guys who love dieting and exercising. They love the sweat dripping down and the sore muscles after a good workout and finding new recipes for clean healthy delicious food that fits their macros. The trick to happiness is taking something you enjoy doing and figuring out how to make money off of doing it. You don’t have to slave away at something shitty for the chance to be happy down the road. You’re thinking about this too binary, like “if some aspect of the journey isn’t considered fun by everyone at all times, then it can’t possibly be fun”.

            Do you think Tiger Woods just randomly picked golf? You think he was like “I think i’ll be the best at something, ehh, let’s go with golf, that won’t be an inconvenient hobby at all”? That he would’ve been just as good at swimming or basketball? He loved playing it and became amazing at it because he loved playing it.

            Do you have any hobbies? Talents? Or are you one of those people who just wasn’t really gifted at anything? Because that would explain your aspergy view on happiness…I’ve met people like that who just don’t really have any direction and I know it’s harder for them to understand what it’s like for passionate people who pour their energy into something. Actually, that would explain a lot about you lol I’m not even talking shit, I legit just kind of feel bad for you. Life must just be a constant battle with that mentality.

          • YaReally
            on July 11, 2013 at 1:08 pm
            Original Link


            …soooo that’s a “no”?

            I’m not trying to point you your deficiencies, you insecure dipshit lol.

            I’m saying if you don’t have things you’re passionate about that you pour energy into specifically because you enjoy the process of doing those things regardless of how good you are and you also enjoy the journey aside from the end result, then it would make complete sense that you have this aspergy view on happiness, because you literally don’t understand the emotions behind why people enjoy doing things they aren’t perfect at and why Bruce Lees body looked the way it did not because he wanted to impress everyone but because he legitimately loved pushing himself and his limits.

            Don’t worry, your deficiencies are plain for all to see as it is, I don’t have to go out of my way to point them out lol. All I’m doing here is looking for an explanation for why your viewpoint is so bleak and shitty…and I guess you explained why by not answering the question.

on July 7, 2013 at 5:31 pm
Original Link

The question then becomes: how DO you properly tool a theoretical YaReally right back?

I’m thinking something along the lines of: “wow man, you really put a lot of thought and imagination into my physique, workout regiment and diet. that’s pretty weird. do you always notice/compliment other dudes on their physique? strange.”

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 3:47 pm
    Original Link

    “The question then becomes: how DO you properly tool a theoretical YaReally right back?”

    Can’t tell you that, or I’ll never get laid! …lol.

    But ya, Scray’s post on it is solid, so is the other guy here who was like “just say Thanks man!” (tho I replied to that about why that might not be enough in bar/club situations)

    I actually wrote about how to defend against my shit way back but fuck me if I can find it in my giant-ass archive lol.

    The jist is just don’t react butt-hurt, kill me with kindness, and try to get me to react butt-hurt to you.

    “wow man, you really put a lot of thought and imagination into my physique, workout regiment and diet. that’s pretty weird. do you always notice/compliment other dudes on their physique? strange.”

    lol this would throw a lot of guys off so it’s solid because you’re turning the frame around and playing off their insecurity of worrying that people will judge them as being gay, so a lot of them will qualify themselves like “what? no man, I’m no fag I just–” and now they’re reacting to you. This is where you’d grab the girls’ attention and walk off with them…they’ll come with you because you have the value. So good stuff for the average AMOG.

    But it wouldn’t work on me, because this is actually a good example of what the article is talking about…you’re applying value to “not risking people thinking I’m gay” and using that to make me feel insecure, because you assume I put the same value on “not risking people thinking I’m gay” (like the guy I just described). But I don’t put value on that because I don’t care what people think, and on top of that, by feeding me that line you just inadvertently TOLD me what you put value on because you thought I would put value on it too…so in a way, you gave me the key to “defeating” you because I have ZERO investment in “not risking people thinking I’m gay” but for you to bring that up to use against me at ALL means that you likely have greater-than-zero investment in that.

    Ergo, it would look something like this:

    You: “wow man, you really put a lot of thought and imagination into my physique, workout regiment and diet. that’s pretty weird. do you always notice/compliment other dudes on their physique? strange.”

    Me: “Only when I want to suck their cock. I mean, not in a GAY way, just a little tongue action. This chick (point to one of the girls we’re fighting over) is thinking the same thing, I can tell. (she laughs because she probably was thinking that at some point lol) God, why are you such a pervert, girl? (as I wrap an arm around her waist and get in her space and turn her body away from you so her back is to you) How many cocks have you sucked tonight? How many! I bet it’s at LEAST 10.”

    You: (fade into the background and watch me make out with this girl, and settle for her uglier friend if I don’t walk them both away from you)

    All I’m doing here is taking what you fed me, using “agree & amplify” to take it back up over the top past the point you’re comfortable with (because again you told me that not risking seeming gay was a weak spot for you), and then when you’re stunned for a split second by the fact that someone would actually SAY something like that (because who the fuck says that? lol), I switch focus to the girls, pump their emotions, and get them away from you while I’m the center of attention and you’re left in my dust.

    For you to counter THAT would be pretty tough, because you would have to start by even getting the attention back on you again and I won’t let that happen…so you would need some SERIOUSLY tight game or some massively high default value to take them back, and even then it would be an epic battle between us because my internals are solid and I’ve done this kind of thing a lot.

    On the flip side, remember that I’m only saying the “you order salad at a restaurant” stuff because you came into my set and tried to take my girls, which is a hostile move to me and earns that. So if instead of trying to tool me AGAIN, you instead realized you were playing with fire and backed off and was just like “lol thanks man, either way these girls are lucky they’ve clearly met the two best looking guys in the bar”, I’d read that you’re making peace and being a cool guy and I’d drop back down into friendly mode too, and talk you up to the girls and you and I would take those girls home together and high-five over the breakfast they cook us and probably become good buddies that go pick up chicks together.

    If a guy is cool by default, and I’m entering HIS set, I’m just friendly and fun and spread value to him. Or even if a guy enters my set, but he’s cool about it and seems like a nice dude and he’s not specifically trying to go for the girl I’m after, or like if he backs off that girl when he realizes I had dibs, then hey, that’s cool, I’ll build up his value to the girls and we’ll all have a blast.

    You only use this stuff when it’s necessary, and you only use as much as you need to to stop the other guy’s shit behavior. It’s more self-defense than aggressive attacking.

    I always look at it like I’d rather everyone just has a good fun time together and we all have value…but if YOU want to turn it into a fight, we can do that, and I’ll fire a warning shot to let you know you bit off more than you can chew, and if you back off cool we’re all good again, but if you keep fighting, we can do that, and I WILL win, but I’d rather we didn’t get into that at all because c’mon, let’s all just have fun and bang some bitches lol

    The reason I have a lot of experience with guys trying this on me is because if you look at me I don’t appear to have any real objective value. I’m not a hideous freak or anything, but I’m average height, average looks, average body, average clothes (I don’t peacock), average job, etc. I actually have to work extra hard to get bouncers to remember me because I look like every other random Joe.

    On top of that, I go to all sorts of venues where I don’t “belong”. High-class places with women dressed to the nines and guys in suits, shit-hole rocker bars where everyone’s tattooed up and hardcore, college bars where everyone’s younger than me, country bars where I’m clearly the only city-boy and not as manly as them, etc.

    So when the guys in these venues see me talking to girls, by default they think that I’m going to be easy to take the girls from and they roll up real confident that they’re going to just steamroll me because I mean, they have an Armani suit and she’s dressed to the nines, of course she’s looking for a rich doctor like him…or they used to ride bulls and I don’t even have callouses on my hands, of course that girl is going to want a REAL man like them, etc. etc.

    So they try to tool me as they enter the set and I fire off a warning shot to let them know that my looks are deceiving. Some of them recognize that and back off and it’s all good from there. But a lot of them are cocky and develop egos and can’t stand the thought of a plain average guy like me coming into “their” territory and getting “their” girls, especially “winning” the girls FROM them…so they try to go head to head with me, but they are just wholly unequipped to deal with what I’m throwing out there.

    I’m not the best, I just THOROUGHLY understand these dynamics and I’ve been forced to gain a lot of experience manipulating them, compared to most people.

    But remember, allllllllllll of this was learned. Consciously. Through years of going out and approaching sets. I started out as a complete nerd with no social skills.

    • Scray
      on July 9, 2013 at 3:15 pm
      Original Link

      ugh. i hate when that happens. that’s the next AMOG issue I need to sort out. some dude comes in, tosses 9 sticks of dynamite in the shit, and then the girl turns her head away from me.

      it’s like ‘lol….well shit, it seems like im phucked no matter what now. if i say something to him, it seems like im trying to get his attention, and if i say something to her, it calls attention to the fact that i need to get her attention again….’

      • YaReally
        on July 9, 2013 at 11:31 pm
        Original Link

        Ya it’s a bitch and that’s the point of it, is it puts the other guy in a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” position.

        As far as a solution goes it’s a lot like “what’s the best way to escape a headlock?” “Don’t let yourself end up in one in the first place” lol.

        Like if you HAD to, you could throw some hail Mary’s out. Stuff like opening a set of girls right beside them and running massive chick crack material on them so they all burst out laughing and your previous girls notice this. You could try merging a set in via the friend the dynamite guy isn’t talking to, forcing an interrupt. You could stealth AMOG the guy to the friend (check my archives for details on this) by talking to the friend off to the side and getting her laughing and attracted then dropping an “it’s too bad your friend is stuck talking to that creepy guy, he hit on my friends last week…I’m sure he’s a nice enough dude but I dunno, I was having fun talking to Sarah…not many girls can make me laugh like that.” and lowering his value while raising yours and instigating her cockblocking him for you because she doesn’t want Sarah to miss out on a high-value guy etc. If your vibe is right for it, you could even forcefully bring her back to you. I’ve literally just gone “HEY.” and turned the girl to me then bent down and picked her up over my shoulder and walked off, but this is something you have to do instantly when you realize buddy is a threat, before she’s more attracted to him than you, and then get her away from him and facing away from him and spike her temp so she forgets about him. There’s also letting him build her buying temp up, then coming in and stealing her while her temp is high which is more for drunk horny girls after midnight but is totally do-able…she transfers her buying temp onto you from him. Tyler has an old article about this somewhere.

        But these are all hail-Mary’s and rolling the dice.

        IDEALLY what you want to do is be more aware of your surroundings and avoid this situation entirely, like the headlock. Learn to spot when guys are going to approach, and learn to deduce quickly how much game they have, lead your girls to another part of the bar before the guy even gets to your group, win the friends over in advance so they’ll help you cockblock, have good wingmen who can interrupt and keep the other guy busy for you, etc.

        This will come with field experience but it’s the same Reticular Activation System concept as bouncers/cops develop where they can tell which guys in a bar are angry and which can fight and which to keep an eye on etc. You’re just tuning your RAS to game related things.

        A lot of guys have talked smack about oh just be cool and no one will mess with you bro and oh this AMOG thing is for pussied blah blah and oh just don’t do anything only pussies react like that.

        The reality is: if you aren’t dealing with AMOGs then you aren’t cold-approaching the hottest girls in the bar. No, you’re not getting AMOGed when you pick up that 6/10 social circle girl that has a crush on you and has already told her friends she likes you. Way to go champ, you’re batting a thousand.

        But some of us are going for the top shelf pussy and the other guys who think they have dibs on that top shelf will try to mark their territory, ESPECIALLY if you’re cold-approaching and not from their social circle…you can stand there like James Bond on a warm approach in a low energy environment, but in a fun chaotic energy-filled club/bar, your top shelf girl is walking away with the shinier object because she has a dozen James Bonds chasing her everywhere she goes and you don’t stand out.

  • Matthew
    on July 8, 2013 at 4:43 pm
    Original Link

    “It’s all thanks to steroids. My nuts are the size of Jelly Bellys. Don’t go down that path, my friend.”

Who Me?
on July 7, 2013 at 6:47 pm
Original Link

I guess it depends on the guy’s mood or something. I’ve had guys try to knock me down in a subtle way like that for being “ripped” or whatever and I just usually say “I only eat mayonnaise sandwiches” or “I don’t work out, I was born this way” in a real disinterested, condescending tone then ignore them.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 3:51 pm
    Original Link

    Good stuff, this is a solid way to handle it and you handle it this way without really thinking because the notion that another guy could knock you down about your body is retarded to you.

    The only catch, if we’re in a set with girls in a club, is that if you don’t have any game to follow that up with to keep the girls, I’ll keep going while you stand there feeling alpha, and I’ll try to get them away from you ASAP lol But most guys don’t have the conscious PUA skills to do that or understand that you’re a threat.

on July 7, 2013 at 8:51 pm
Original Link

“wow man you’re ripped that awesome. You must spend all day in the gym hey, you must be going for a 2am workout after the bar tonight to stay that jacked lol I wish I had that kind of dedication but I’m a lazy fuck (pat my belly and make the girls rub it). I love good food too much, I have to get a steak when I’m at a restaurant, I’d be embarrassed to order a salad lol you got way more balls than me man”

I mean yea he is taking himself more seriously but don’t high value guys do that.

He could have easily been like
” Going to the gym isn’t for everyone” = Alpha

Wouldn’t have messed up my frame, in fact you would have just validated me.

Too be fair you did say

“like not being impressed about the thing they’re trying to impress myself and/or the girls with, or downplaying what they’re proud of to the girls so the girls stop valuing it as well.”

Witch if he had any sense at all he wouldn’t give a fuck about what you thought of him.
Also he could of flipped it into making you seem reactive to his success like a hater for not have a 6 pack abs and drawn the girls into his frame by believing he’s the shit.

It all depends on the person hence you were talking about a low value guy.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 3:58 pm
    Original Link

    Right, this is all calibration. The catch is that probably 90% of the time, whatever attribute the person is displaying is the attribute they earned BECAUSE at one point they were insecure about that attribute and decided they needed to earn it, and most of the time there are still tiny little niggling doubts in the back of their head about that attribute.

    So like a guy with a 6-pack is likely to be a guy who was insecure about his looks and dedicated himself to working out, so if I drop a comment that makes him feel like he looks perfect or like there’s more value in being fat than having a 6-pack etc., it triggers his old insecurities and throws him off.

    It’s very very very rare for guys to be confident in all categories of life…if he’s confident in his looks, he might be insecure about his money. If he’s confident in his looks and money, he might be insecure about his success with women. etc. etc. there’s usually SOMETHING to fuck with and meeting a lot of people teaches you that calibration.

    Again to me this is all negative energy and shitty in general and not how I like to spend my night. I’d rather compliment his body and be like that’s badass dude, I wish I had that kind of discipline and ask him for some workout tips and set him up with one of the girls I’m talking to and we all go home together. That’s a way more fun positive night.

    This stuff only comes out when the other guy provokes it. It’s like learning martial arts. You should use it for self-defense, not to be a bully.

first time caller
on July 8, 2013 at 12:14 am
Original Link

I only do Wii Fit and Zumba a few times a week to maintain this bitchin physique. Not too hard when you have perfect genes.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 4:02 pm
    Original Link

    lol this is a good response. This is the kind of response where I’d laugh and then just befriend you and we’d take the girls home together, because it tells me you’re confident and don’t take yourself seriously, that you’re a fun dude, and it’s not hostile or attacking me again, so in my mind you’re extending an olive branch of peace and I’d way rather be in a positive interaction than a negative fight.

on July 8, 2013 at 2:46 am
Original Link

i don’t think amoging the ripped guy is always a good idea. Kind of looks butthurt. At best in that situation you should ignore the guys physique as if it is not significant, or better yet have a physique that rivals it. Women don’t want men that notice when/if/that other men are better than them. Even less if they give away they are butthurt over it. I’m in good shape and if someone came at me with that i wouldn’t be impressed one bit. Most guys in shape, provided they have a few brain cells, would think of some kind of comeback, which would carry much greater weight, given that they DO actually look better than you. In otherwords if you pull that one off smoothly its totally down to the musclemans lack of game/intelligence, as oppose to the brilliance of your move to point oiut that another man is better than you and try and belittle him for it.

A better Amog would be to down your drink, and challenge the muscleman to an arm wrestle, without consideration for his physique or your levels of intoxication…..and win.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 4:20 pm
    Original Link

    “i don’t think amoging the ripped guy is always a good idea. Kind of looks butthurt.”

    That’s right, it’s not ALWAYS a good idea. You calibrate to the guy and the situation lol. This is an art, not a “one size fits all”.

    “At best in that situation you should ignore the guys physique as if it is not significant”

    This is fine too. Again this is just for if the guy tries to tool you and you want some ammo to buy you enough time to take the girls away. Also you’re technically doing the second thing I described, in not being impressed by the thing he thinks has value.

    “or better yet have a physique that rivals it.”

    As long as you work on getting the physique because YOU want it because your health and body are important to YOU, and not because you think it’ll get you girls, then ya, that’s cool too. But it doesn’t really make a difference in attraction.

    The girls aren’t going “well this guy is fun, but he has 14% bodyfat and this other guy has 16% bodyfat, so I’m going to bang the 14%.” That’s just not a thing that happens except in extreme fetish cases where like, the girl has a weird fetish for the lowest bodyfat she can find…like Jay Cutler has girls who are into his look, but they aren’t in any way the majority and most girls think he looks like a freak.

    “Women don’t want men that notice when/if/that other men are better than them.”

    Yep, I agree. It doesn’t register in my head that other guys could be better than me, that’s impossible to me. But I AM consciously aware that a guy who better fits SOCIETY’S view of who’s “better” will probably be insecure and reactive about that and it’s a button I can press if I need to.

    “Most guys in shape, provided they have a few brain cells, would think of some kind of comeback, which would carry much greater weight, given that they DO actually look better than you.”

    Nope. Mental masturbation here. Go out and tool a bunch of guys and see what kind of comebacks you get. Most guys aren’t prepared and can’t think fast and freeze up, and they either back off or get frustrated which turns to anger which turns to wanting to fight you (which is why you back off and befriend them and build their value up again for them, when they realize they’re outmatched).

    This is based on field experience. Lots of it.

    “A better Amog would be to down your drink, and challenge the muscleman to an arm wrestle, without consideration for his physique or your levels of intoxication…..and win.”

    Sure thing. While you two are arm-wrestling, I’ll be asking the girls why the guys here are all roided up with testosterone tonight and telling them they should quit being so hot, it’s making guys fight over them. And then I’ll walk them away from your arm-wrestling match while you compare who has a bigger dick lol

the strictness
on July 8, 2013 at 2:57 am
Original Link

lots of sex keeps you ripped bro, try it…..

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 4:25 pm
    Original Link

    “aw man, no wonder I’m fat, I’m still a virgin. (turn to the girls) Girls, will one of you help me get in shape tonight? I live in my parents’ basement so we’ll have to be quiet, but don’t worry, my cock is only an inch big so you won’t even need to scream. You’ll probably make more noise snoring. (pick the girl giggling the most) Do you snore? I can tell, you totally do. Shit, (pulling her in and turning her away from you so her back is to you) how are we going to have 30 seconds of disappointing sex that leaves you completely unsatisfied tonight at this rate?”

    On lots of guys, your line will work. But a good PUA would agree, amplify, then follow it up and work on getting the girls away from you ASAP.

the strictness
on July 8, 2013 at 3:25 am
Original Link

I’m not convinced that AMOGING the muscleman is such a good move. It’ll only work if he’s got no game, in which case nearly any AMOG would work. In fact if he has any half decent response, you’ve just set HIM up as the Alpha, because youv’e noticed something about him that is superior to you. Chicks don’t dig guys that are intimidated or impressed by other guys, which is what you’d most likely give away. Best to just ignore and proceed as if you are the alpha with something good about you, better yet down your drink, and challenge him to an arm wrestle with no regard for his physique or levels of intoxication. Then…..Win. Or if you’re really up on your game you can lose easily and still get the girls. But acting butthurt about a guy looking better than you just doesn’t seem like the way to go.

Besides i think we all know you can be ripped on nothin but pizza and chocolate, besides steak is pretty good for your physique, you can increase lean body mass by eating extra protein alone. Also, This Amog doesn’t really work if the guy just downed 10 beers, dudes a machine and everyone, including the girl likely knows it.

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 4:29 pm
    Original Link

    “Besides i think we all know you can be ripped on nothin but pizza and chocolate, besides steak is pretty good for your physique, you can increase lean body mass by eating extra protein alone. Also, This Amog doesn’t really work if the guy just downed 10 beers, dudes a machine and everyone, including the girl likely knows it.”

    Too logical. This is mental masturbation. No one gives a shit about any of this except the guys in the bodybuilding Misc forum. ESPECIALLY not girls at the bar/club running on emotions and gina tingles. All that matters is how the girls feel in the moment.

on July 8, 2013 at 11:08 am
Original Link

I suck at verbal warfare and it needs patching up b/c it’s tougher to fight an AMOG’s attacks off when I can’t come up with witty retorts on the spot. It’s not just those scenarios though; sometimes a guy just starts tooling out of the blue. I do try to keep YaReally’s sound advice in mind about how that’s usually just normal bro talk and shouldn’t be taken seriously but when I get ripped on with a good jab and the group’s having a laugh I lose ground when I can’t reply on the spot with something clever. Obviously any women witnessing me get tooled like that write me off but the worst part is that now the guys see I’m an easy mark it starts to avalanche. I’ve experienced it multiple times and I’m trying to learn from the abuse instead of hiding like I used to. I at least don’t respond with butthurt comments or with beta body language anymore but nothing substitutes for having a comeback ready after being ripped in front of the group. There’s that old poker saying about how there’s a sucker at every table and if you can’t spot them it’s you – well, in the past that’s usually me in social circles and I even had to abandon a group of guys I’d known for over five years because I was the punching bag of the group and didn’t have the skills to reverse that dynamic. I know that was running away but I feel like if I’m going to change I need to cut out those people who are going to hold me back. Besides, in hindsight I really did make a lot of socially retarded mistakes with them that I don’t think I’d ever overcome.

I should probably mention I used to pull really attractive g/f’s in high school/college back when it was effortless. I’d learn from others a pretty girl liked me, I’d then talk some to them and next thing I know we’re banging. I had to just be running on looks and luck b/c I was a video game-obsessed introvert with no social skills whatsoever. Looking back my only advantage was that since I found most women and conversation boring in general I never presented a supplicating/beta worship vibe. I was anti-social but also that quiet guy in the back of the classroom that only a few knew had been with many of the more desirable women on campus. Therefore I was thoroughly unprepared for my love life turning on its head post college. I am still a decently good looking guy, not balding or anything yet not that it would matter much, athletic build, dress well, bathe lol etc. so except for maybe presenting too clean cut an appearance I don’t think I’m doing anything to draw negative attention other than what I must be saying. After all while my body language is a work in progress I’ve been following what is taught here. I don’t lean in, I cut out that nervous leg bounce i used to do, I look people in the eyes more, etc. The results have been noticeable, I mean this stuff is for real lol.

I still struggle and an example of a specific remark I’ve encountered multiple times including recently (usually a girl does this though) is to say “I could say something here, but I won’t” while casting an obnoxious sidelong glance to the others. I haven’t nailed down the perfect response to that, any help? What I can come up with either sounds butthurt or too defensive/qualifying. What I’ve tried on the spot is smiling and trying to look amused saying something to the effect of “I’m a big boy I can take it” etc to try and get them to say the comment but they just keep playing like they’re doing me a favor by not deploying this super huge bomb on me lol which is brilliant in a way b/c they probably don’t have such a witty comment in mind to begin with but are tooling me anyways as if they did.

I’ve also had guys make the fool out of me with a good remark and then suddenly slap me on the back and say “I’m just messing with ya” which makes me think I must be showing some sort of butthurt with my body language, only I seriously don’t think I am anymore. I wish I could have someone film me but the only error I’m seeing is I’m stalling trying to come up with a reply and maybe they see I’m tongue-tied and are pulling that finishing move of sorts to go ahead and basically announce their victory to everyone in earshot. What should I be doing there?

I still feel like it’s a minefield out there b/c I’m just out trying to meet some people and try to have fun, working my way up to having women in my social circle again like old times but I never know when I’m suddenly going to be ambushed like that. I’ve come a long way on internal frame and not letting others define my self-view (YaReally commented on this well) and I honestly don’t think I’m showing a response anymore when people come at me, but I can be rock solid internally and the others still see me as a tool when I can’t keep up with the banter.

Now that I’ve typed this out I’m thinking all I really need is just more calibration out in the field taking my lumps until I can get this skill set down. I wasted my twenties with a negative mindset basically hating most people due to racking up shitty social experiences (including the post I made about one that YaReally was responding to) without anything to counterbalance them. It has to be me at fault, I realize that as I’m the only thing in common with all those experiences. My mindset then was that since it was only the undesirable women approaching me anymore it now must be the best I could do and since I didn’t want that for myself (Once you’ve had steak…) I retreated to the usual omega vices. I know now how flawed and self-defeating I had been; I wasted almost a decade of youth.

Anyways this has been way too much talking about myself and I’d never do that in a conversation lol just seeking assistance from those wiser than myself on these matters.

TL;DR I’m working on getting out more but keep getting tooled by guys when I can’t keep up with the repartee.

  • Matthew King
    on July 8, 2013 at 12:38 pm
    Original Link

    You are going too directly at the problem when you should be adopting a more Zen Buddhist frame of mind. This is one of the hardest difficulties to overcome because it is also the greatest virtue of white men. We have a nerdlord ability to hyperfocus on an issue and clamp down on the bone like a pit bull until it yields. But in this circumstance you must let go of your grip, and only in letting it go will it yield. That is the most efficient way to thrive amid the fluid estrogen culture you are attempting to (literally and figuratively) penetrate.

    YaReally himself is a probably unmatchable exemplar of the hyperfocus culture: cover every contingency, overwhelm with volume, leave no stone unturned, flood the space with options. An infinite if-then flow chart. If A then B, and if not B, then try C, D, E, F, and G. And while you’re trying C through G, think of H, I, J, K, elemenopea.

    See, you care about being AMOGged, and Mr. Amog knows you care, and the girls know you care, and you know that they know that you know that they know you care. It’s a vicious cycle that, as advised in the original post, should be diffused at step one: stop giving a shit, even if it takes a mental exercise of lying to yourself. Hence the worship of the Aloof above the virtuous on this site.

    Except, as other commenters note, this tactic makes a mockery of actually improving oneself. You can be fat rather than ripped because you can easily fool bimbos with an imitation of confidence that should accompany the outwardly healthy looking man. Except that confidence doesn’t work that way — the skinniest girls think they’re fat, the bodybuilders are often insecure, and the actor can transcend them all by putting on a display of self-assurance.

    By your own report, you seem to have enough virtues to make a go of it, if only you could find the right attitude.

    There is a third way above both beta insecurity and alpha mimicry, which is to acquire virtue and derive your confidence from actual assets, rather than doing the mental gymnastics of acting “as if.” YaReally faked it long enough until he developed a real asset (PUA skills), and he derives confidence effortlessly from a memory of results. But those skills are now real and not any longer the fake pose he advises insecure men to adopt, because it worked for him.

    CH rather puts it, Make your mission paramount, not women. The rest will follow. You are too focused on adopting tricks to thrive despite a pot belly (or whatever insecurity you may have), rather than adopting virtues and the confidence that should coincide with those virtues.

    But all things equal, if you can only have one, the (fake) confidence is more useful than the virtue because confidence more directly speaks to women than do the traits themselves. You are essentially daring her to make an issue of the incongruity between her eyes and your lies, which women rarely have the moxie to do. Especially when you are focused exclusively on short-term rewards. Over the long term, she becomes aware of the unsupported confidence, and so by that time the PUA recommends you find fresh targets to fool (“having options”).

    There is no quippy rejoinder to every AMOG remark. There is no list to memorize long enough to cover every contingency. So stop chastising yourself for not being an impromptu James-Bond screenwriter with a one-liner for every situation. Instead make a man of yourself and laugh at AMOG attempts not as a well-rehearsed act but rather as a natural expression of a man who understands his value.


    • Cragsleeper
      on July 9, 2013 at 10:05 am
      Original Link

      Letting go may be the hardest thing for me to do here but I’ll trust what you’re saying. I think on this subject constantly now but at 34 I know my time is running short before I start to be called ‘sir’ by the women I’m looking to date. Not that it can’t be overcome of course but the last thing I need is additional hurdles.

      Rereading my post I see the neediness and flat out whiny nature. “Waah, this is so hard to do, why are people mean to me’ could sum up much of it. A lot of frustration in youth was from others attacking me for reasons I could not fathom; I see I’m not as far removed from that as I’d thought. I avoid drunkenness because I’m an overly friendly drunk, as in walking around telling people how cool they are and we should hang & whatnot – an insight into my inner nature and something I should be aware of and guard against.

      I am keenly aware of the irony that as I obsess in an attempt to fix things I ultimately feed into the problem and make it increasingly formidable in my own mind. I should just let it go, as you say. Accept I won’t win every encounter and stop even thinking about interaction within that frame and instead focus on my mission as I go out and socialize. For years I’ve been one of those guys CH would say “checked out” as every day was work, then sitting at home. If I’m bumbling around out there at least I should rack up some good stories, anything better than what I’ve been doing.

      If I post here again I’ll stick to field reports. I think I’ve been pointed in the right direction so now it’s past time to man up and deal no matter how uncomfortable. I won’t even go into the issues I have with relationships; my goal right now is growing the social circle and interacting with desirable women again, in and out of the bedroom. The archives here have proven invaluable in that pursuit.

      It’s sad I had to find out so many crucial things every man should know from stumbling onto a website.

      • Scray
        on July 9, 2013 at 1:06 pm
        Original Link

        ‘I’ve also had guys make the fool out of me with a good remark and then suddenly slap me on the back and say “I’m just messing with ya” which makes me think I must be showing some sort of butthurt with my body language, only I seriously don’t think I am anymore.’

        “And now you can’t keep your hands off me — hot and cold.”
        I hate when dudes try to pat me on the back and shit. Naturally, it’ll happen…but I tend to try and tool them for doing it. And ya, some of that stuff is just good-natured ribbing…but some of it is just them being dicksplashes. It’s easy to tell the difference: could you do what they did to you back to them without them being a cunt about it? If so, then ya…just good-natured ribbing. But if you try to do the same thing and they get cunty — watch yourself, that’s an adversary.

        ‘TL;DR I’m working on getting out more but keep getting tooled by guys when I can’t keep up with the repartee.’

        Wrong mindset, I think. You don’t have to keep up with them. Once you gain the ability to be a rock in the middle of anything, nothing else matters — like, think that a dude tools you and three other people crack up and you just sit there, stone silent. I can play it out for you —>

        Joke 1, group laughs, you just ignore.
        Joke 2, group laughs cause they see he’s trying to get a rise out of you, ignore.
        Joke 3, group laughs a little less because they see he has NO effect on you, ignore.
        Joke 4, group doesn’t really laugh at all, ignore.

        You don’t have to “keep up” with shit. Just focus on being a rock and let him be the phaggot wave. Somewhere around Joke 3, the group will instinctively pick up “o wait…..this guy is making jokes because he WANTS the other guy to do something, and the fact that the other guy is doing nothing is making the other guy make more jokes….other guy must be higher value.”

        It’s hard to pull off (believe me)…but consistent practice (fake until you start making it) will yield the desired results. At first it’ll feel really weird and the social pressure will just make you feel so icky. But after while, it’s less and less of a thing. Just practice it. Practice shutting up and thinking of no witty comeback at all and just standing there. Then, when the laughter ends, proceed as if it didn’t happen and no fucks are given. When you pull it off, it’s like ‘ya who gives a shit about -repartee-….repar-gay.’

        Also, sometimes it’s hard if you have friends who are legit funny. Like, if you give them four cracks at the ball, it’s highly likely they will say something that’ll just make you involuntarily laugh. But that’s okay too, because then you can just be like ‘ok….THAT one was funny’ which is still high value => he’s a clown there to entertain you.

        • YaReally
          on July 9, 2013 at 1:44 pm
          Original Link

          “Joke 1, group laughs, you just ignore.
          Joke 2, group laughs cause they see he’s trying to get a rise out of you, ignore.
          Joke 3, group laughs a little less because they see he has NO effect on you, ignore.
          Joke 4, group doesn’t really laugh at all, ignore.”

          This is exactly how it plays out. That’s Field Experience talking right there.

          “But that’s okay too, because then you can just be like ‘ok….THAT one was funny’ which is still high value => he’s a clown there to entertain you.”

          Yep, also this.

      • YaReally
        on July 9, 2013 at 1:41 pm
        Original Link

        “It’s sad I had to find out so many crucial things every man should know from stumbling onto a website.”

        What would be sadder is finding the website, and then rejecting those things because they seem like too much work. ;)

        I’ve got a response to you but its sitting in moderation with a few others. :’( Is there no way for wordpress to auto-approve comments by certain regular posters?

  • YaReally
    on July 8, 2013 at 4:47 pm
    Original Link

    Lots to cover here, I’ll come back with some more later, I’ve blown all day writing shit as it is (figured I should with a whole article about me and how amazing I am and all lol).

    Matt’s advice is solid long-term advice, it’s what you want to work towards (the zen thing). The only problem with it is it’s slow as fuck and doesn’t get you pussy today which ya, ya the end-all be-all of life shouldn’t be pussy but fuck it, if you’re a dude out around hot chicks, you want to stick your dick in them. And that’s OKAY lol.

    Anyway, I’ll drop some more shit in here later but for this part:

    “I still struggle and an example of a specific remark I’ve encountered multiple times including recently (usually a girl does this though) is to say “I could say something here, but I won’t” while casting an obnoxious sidelong glance to the others. I haven’t nailed down the perfect response to that, any help?”

    Here are some “IF…THEN” responses that won’t build your overall lifelong zen master-plan, but they MIGHT help you not feel like a tooled piece of shit the next time you get this kind of tooling from people when you’re out:

    “”I could say something here, but I won’t” while casting an obnoxious sidelong glance to the others.”

    “Oh that’s alright, I wouldn’t listen anyway. I mean, you’re a woman, it’s not like you’ll say anything important. ;) ” (with a cheeky grin)

    “Oh thank god. You talk so MUCH…finally, a break. Shhhh, everyone, let’s enjoy this silence…ahhh…” (with a cheeky grin, and interrupt her with “shhh!! I’m enjoying the rare moment where you aren’t talking!” when she talks)

    “That’s alright, I assume whatever it was was a compliment, and you’re right I DO look ridiculously handsome tonight. You’re such a flatterer.” (with a cheeky grin, as always)

    As long as you say these in a fun tone of voice where you know you’re deliberately being offensive/ridiculous (VS a hostile tone of voice where you’re butt-hurt), you should get a fun reaction. The underlying idea behind them all is that 1) you don’t care what she was going to say anyway, and 2) you’re sure it was probably a compliment because you’re so awesome.

    This leads into the zen thing of just believing you’re awesome all the time and your game flowing from that. But again, “focusing on your mission” when you’re out at the bar and a cockblocking mother hen is trying to stop you from putting your dick in her hot little friend, won’t really do much to get her. It’s passive and hoping the universe throws you the pussy you want instead of taking what you want.

    • Cragsleeper
      on July 10, 2013 at 8:41 am
      Original Link

      Great responses, my favorite being the second one. It’s probably obvious to many but that’s better than anything I had in mind. It would have been perfect, especially considering the last girl who used that being such a loud windbag. Now that I’m ready for that line I’m sure I’ll never encounter it again lol but I feel better just knowing at least I’m not getting tripped up again by the same trick. I know Matt’s right and there’s endless crap I’m going to run up against and I can’t script it all out, and maybe with time I’ll start to develop improvisation skills. For now Scray’s advice is probably the best for a guy like me, just assume the posture of a man who really doesn’t care and let the group see it. Getting out there these past few months has shown me I just can’t keep up with a lot of guys on the quips and I’d let that bother me far too much. Considering I was a shut-in for most of a decade I should accept my social skills are going to be inferior to those who have been out doing this for years and charge forward with irrational confidence regardless lol.

      Recent changes I’ve made that have had a noticeably positive effect: not laughing so much, lots of eye contact, and trying to be more critical. I was just too nice in the past. I make an effort not to laugh unless someone has really earned it and instead of throwing out all kinds of positive supportive crap I really limit it now and even though it still doesn’t feel natural yet, I try to pick out flaws in what a person said and bring them up. I’m really just imitating what people do to me to be honest and I think with practice it’ll become second nature but for now it’s definitely a conscious effort. I still find myself slipping into the old me when I start to get too comfortable in a group. Change is difficult.

      • Scray
        on July 10, 2013 at 11:19 am
        Original Link

        and I think that’s how you can tell who on here is going out and who isn’t. A lot of the “solutions” or the “comebacks” ASSUME that guy B is on the same playing field as guy A, so they’re like ‘o ya, the content of this response is so good! yaaaa….’ What they miss is that no one is really giving your content a chance because they think guy A is higher value. So first thing’s first: break that perception. Then later, when they’re giving you a chance/actual attention….then you can bust out some good content (altho at that point it honestly won’t matter wat you say…).

        • YaReally
          on July 10, 2013 at 11:57 am
          Original Link

          “A lot of the “solutions” or the “comebacks” ASSUME that guy B is on the same playing field as guy A, so they’re like ‘o ya, the content of this response is so good! yaaaa….’ What they miss is that no one is really giving your content a chance because they think guy A is higher value.”

          Right, exactly, this is important. It’s the same concept as guys saying “oh this game stuff is all try-hard, you should just be like James Bond at the bar chilling and the hottest girls will want you”. It’s like ya they’ll love how James Bond you are when you’re dating but you won’t even be on her radar until you’re high value to her (thus why we use DHVs, social proof, negs/teasing, qualifying, approaching, etc) and the other guys chasing her will be trying to keep you OFF her radar because they’re on it.

          This is just the reality of cold-approaching hotties.

          I use witty comebacks because I’m quick with coming up with them. I’m able to flow like Russell Brand so it’s not hard for me to rattle off a bunch of clever stuff. If you’re not good at it, improv classes can help, study comedy and TV/movies with snappy dialogue, and just rack of tons of field experience lol

          Thing is tho is that it’s like Scray says, it’s the intent that matters more than the content. The quarterback doesn’t have to say anything witty to the cheerleader, she’ll giggle even if his “joke” is like “lol whatever bro you smell like poop” because he’s high-value to her and he thinks what he’s saying is all gold because he’s confident/cocky. Meanwhile the nerd who doesn’t understand the social dynamics is standing there going “wtf?? That wasn’t even FUNNY!!” as the cheerleader giggles and fawns over the quarterback.

          I COULD reply with “applesauce fuck giraffe” or just stare at her with a scolding look in my eyes and it would go over fine, because I already come off as high-value to girls so as long as that was entertaining to ME they’ll love it and think I’m a genius. But I prefer some clever wordplay stuff because I look at that as a little personal challenge, to improvise witty one-liners and innuendo and stuff, I think it’s fun lol and it’s something you improve on over time…writer’s get better the more they write, it’s the same thing.

          Part of giving the OP a line to say isn’t that it’s the best zinger ever…it’s exactly what the OP wrote that now he feels a little more equipped to handle himself and will be more confident if he runs into this situ in the future. And the fact that he’s more confident about that means that he probably won’t run into it again. We give guys training wheels so they learn not to be afraid of the bike…they can take those training wheels off later and bike with no hands if they want.

          The other thing is that you’ll run into the same situs over and over a lot in the field. Like the reason I can pop out comebacks for “I could say something but…” is because a ton of girls have said that (or similar) to me over the years lol so if you’re going to constantly run into the same situation, fuck it, come up with some witty responses.

          Like if you only have one arm, you know people will ask what happened to your arm, so why not come up with some clever/witty/sexual responses to “what happened to your arm?” Instead of winging it every time and getting frustrated. Take control, you know?

on July 8, 2013 at 1:15 pm
Original Link

YaReally: Kid grow up! a YaReally confident MAN dont gib a flying fuck about female or Male perceptions…he just walk the line… HIS line.

there are only Predators, Prey and Vultures. you now your place thats why you are so butthurt.

Options = Instability

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 3, 2013 at 3:01 pm
Original Link

I have a bit of an off-topic quandary. How do you deal with the BFF beta male orbiters of women you are banging? It seems that if I point out the BFF beta male orbiter’s implicit cockblocking behavior I come across as butthurt/jealous, but if I let it go then I obviously get cockblocked.

  • YaReally
    on July 3, 2013 at 3:39 pm
    Original Link

    Need more details. Specifically:

    1) Have you fucked her yet? More than once? No sex yet but at least made out? Or she’s into you but you haven’t kissed yet? Which stage you’re at with her changes the dynamics of how to optimally handle it.

    2) Are you friends with the guys? Are they a part of your social circle? Do you need them to like you to avoid drama in your day to day life? Are they big scary physically threatening dudes or gay effeminate annoyances?

    3) How do they cockblock you? Do they just hit on her on Facebook? Do they prevent you from taking her home (like by demanding they drive her home or purposely needing her attention and for her to drive them home (like they purposely get too drunk or start drama))? Do they ruin her mood? Do they tool you right in front of her in person and if so, what kind of tooling is it?

    4) To the best of your knowledge has she fucked any of them in the past? ie – are they her ex-boyfriend or ex-fuckbuddy or anything? Have they dated at all or tried it? Does it seem like she’s attracted to them? Or more like she feels she has to babysit them or can’t “go against” them because they’re BFFs and she doesn’t want them to be mad at her?

    • AlphaBeta
      on July 4, 2013 at 9:37 am
      Original Link


      I’ve been fucking this girl for over a year, and this is a guy I’m friendly with who is in our social circle. The problem is that he sort of ingratiates himself in situs where it should be just me & her… like some sorta lost puppy. Worse, he sorta expects to be given preferential treatment/time with her by his behavior. I want to be like “seriously dude? Fuck off” but since the guy is like her BFF and in my social circle I think that would not go over well lol (and I actually don’t know if they’ve fucked or anything in the past). Others have guessed that the BFF wants to be more than friends with her or is trying to protect her from me since I’m a “bad boy” lol. I’m certainly not her bf, even though that’s what she wants, so that factors in too.

      • YaReally
        on July 4, 2013 at 11:31 am
        Original Link

        Okay, so he’s the overprotective BFF with a crush on her, AND you’re stuck with him in your social circle. This type is annoying as fuck because you can’t befriend him (since you’re with his dream girl, and he thinks you’re scum, and probably thinks you’re hurting her by not being her BF), and you can’t tool him (since she clearly hasn’t told him to fuck off yet), and you can’t be rude to him and tell him to fuck off (since he’s part of the group), you can’t set him up with other girls because he wants her specifically, etc.

        Know two things:

        1) She doesn’t want to fuck him. If she did, she still would be. So he’s not really a “threat”, just an inconvenience.

        2) She’s caught in the middle because ditching you means no more good sex, and ditching him means losing a friend. If she had to choose between the two, as good as the sex is, bailing on her social circle BFF would cause too much drama (she’d have to admit she wants sex which makes her sound like a slut, plus all the other problems/losses) so there’s a pretty good chance she’d choose him, so don’t fall into giving her an ultimatum…you only give an ultimatum when you know you can win it lol. If he wasn’t a part of the group or didn’t know her well, you could do it.

        That said, you’ve been fucking her so you have a little pull to make some demands. So you have three options:

        1) Ignore it. I mean ultimately does he prevent you from fucking her? You don’t want to be her BF so do you *WANT* to spend time alone with her that doesn’t involve fucking? Because that’s going to make her even clingier and make her hit the “you have to be my BF or I can’t do this anymore it hurts too much because I love you” ultimatum a lot faster.

        So does he make it so you can’t fuck her, or do you still, at the end of the night, take her home, but you’re just stuck hanging with him all night and he bugs you because you know he’s trying to cockblock? Like if you really boil it down, is what bothers you about the situation just that he keeps relentlessly trying and won’t take a hint and you’re feeling kind of territorial? If he wasn’t into her and at the end of the night he was like “you two go have fun, I’ll drop you off at your place to hook up!” would him being around bother you? Are you into her more than you realize?

        Cause if he’s not stopping you from laying her, and your main grievance is that he’s trying to mess your game up, you getting annoyed by him is just some minor insecurity on your end. This is really the best route…he’s not ACTUALLY a threat, she’s not going to be like “oh BFF I want to bang you because you gave me a ride home” or “oh BFF you’re right this guy’s a jerk even tho he fucks my brains out, I’m going to throw that away”, so fuck it, why let it bother you? This is also the best route because it’s all internal on your end and doesn’t require you even bringing it up to either of them so there’s the least chance for drama or fucking her head up.

        2) Start being distant when he’s around. Be totally into her and fun and attractive and then when BFF shows up pull back and go talk to other people and even bail to another bar or head home early (on a night she’s expecting to hook up) without telling her. Then when she inevitably asks what’s wrong, you can be vague about it like “I dunno, I’m just tired of hanging out as a 3-some with BFF. He’s a nice guy and all, and I know he’s your friend, but the guy doesn’t really know when to leave and you don’t tell him it’s time to go…so when I’m looking forward to spending some time alone with you and he shows up it’s like ehh, I just don’t feel like competing for your attention.”

        If you want to play a risky emotional game that might fuck her up you can throw in “I guess lately I’ve just found I want to spend some more time alone together with you, but you don’t seem to want the same thing or you’d let him know to back off a bit…but that’s cool, we should probably keep things from getting too serious anyway…” and look off into the distance lol. This’ll make her go “OMG I might get him into a BF relationship if I tell BFF to fuck off a bit!!” but like I say, this will fuck her up if you have no intention of actually being her BF and keep stringing her along. This is why Option 1 is better than this…this is the selfish “I don’t want to work on myself so I’m going to lie and use people to get what I want” dark game Option…it works but a lot of people would consider you kind of a piece of shit for using it instead of manning up and just handling your internal shit like Option 1. :P

        3) Bring it up. After you rail her and you’re both laying there sweaty and in the after-glow of sex, tell her “look, this is fun and I like hanging with you, but I don’t think BFF approves of this at all and he’s getting less subtle about it. I’m not going to make you choose between us or anything, but him hanging around us constantly tagging along is getting to be annoying…you need to let him know when he’s overstaying his welcome.” This is the worst Option because while it can work, you’re flipping a 50/50 coin on what this is going to stir up in her…there’s a good chance it’s going to trigger her going “well you don’t want to be my BF anyway, so who cares? Or are you saying you want to be my BF now? I’m getting tired of us just having sex…I need something more, and if you can’t give it to me then I don’t know if I can do this anymore.” and running head-first into the ultimatum.

        So those are pretty much your best Options…and as you can see, the more of a fit you throw, the more chance you’ll spawn drama and/or a shitty outcome. So ideally you should figure out why exactly he bugs you and what exactly is the big deal ultimately if ya, he’s a douche, and ya he hangs out with you guys a lot, and ya he wants special treatment when he’s there, but at the end of the night you still take her home and fuck her.

        Handling your shit is always the best option.

    • Alex
      on July 4, 2013 at 11:40 am
      Original Link

      I call on CH to make an entire post that would cover every situation mentioned by YaReally in here. It would do great good.

      YaReally is also welcome to extrapolate on every situation he named here if he has time and will to do so.

      Thank you.

      • YaReally
        on July 4, 2013 at 2:21 pm
        Original Link

        Go learn it first-hand, it’s a Thursday night, plenty of girls out. ;)

on July 3, 2013 at 3:07 pm
Original Link

Shouldn’t it really be options at the same or higher SMV than one’s partner?

  • Scray
    on July 3, 2013 at 4:56 pm
    Original Link

    Okay, well then follow-up…in every LTR I’ve been in, the girls were convinced I had other options — using that definition, and of course, that was false. So, it just seems like when a girl is -truly- and deeply attracted to you, she’s already convinced that you have other options, regardless of contrary objective indicators: solipsism working in the man’s favor.

    • YaReally
      on July 3, 2013 at 5:09 pm
      Original Link

      “when a girl is -truly- and deeply attracted to you, she’s already convinced that you have other options, regardless of contrary objective indicators: solipsism working in the man’s favor”


      When I first started getting laid via pickup, girls would get mad at me when I honestly answered how many girls I’ve had sex with…they were attracted to me so fast (sex on the first meet or first date, thanks to PUA skills I was learning) that they wouldn’t accept that I had only been with 2 or 3 other girls and they’d get mad because they thought I was lying or being sarcastic because obviously if they were that attracted then other girls must be as attracted because the only other option is that no other girls would bang me and she has bad taste and just banged a beta and that’s unacceptable to her hamster.

      I thought it was fascinating from a psychology point of view…I ended up just lying and telling them what they wanted to hear, that I had been with lots of girls, even though I hadn’t, because they were legitimately getting pissed off at me when I wouldn’t “admit” it. It was so surreal to my rAFC mind lol

      Tyler makes a lot of points related to this in this video…if she’s attracted to you it’s ultimately in her best interest to enhance your good attributes and minimize your flaws, so in the end she envisions you as this badass perfect guy so logically of course other girls would want you. Such mental gymnastics…again, I find this kind of thing fascinating:

on July 3, 2013 at 3:13 pm
Original Link

She can have as many options as she wants…it doesn’t matter, I’m the best of them. She’ll never meet another man who makes her feel the rollercoaster ride of emotions she needs like I do, and her Hypergamy keeps her faithful even if (and in a way partly BECAUSE) she knows I’m exercising MY options.

So regardless of how many men are lined up at her door, she really only has ONE option: Me.

on July 3, 2013 at 4:36 pm
Original Link

“Peace of mind is not happiness.” TOO TRUE. Last weekend illustrated that point for me. On Saturday I went out with a chick I dumped for being too fat a while ago. I gave it another shot and she’s still nice, smart, easy talk to, etc. But being with her is just an inherently depressing drag. It’s like there’s this weight. (heh)

On Sunday, I went out with a slim and beautiful Japanese woman. Just the *feeling* of sitting across from a smiling and healthy woman was life-affirming beyond words. Never mind the sheer godlike bliss of having sex with a slim exotic woman who doesn’t have “the chip.”

They say “5 minutes of alpha man is worth more than a lifetime of loyal beta.” Well the corollary is “5 minutes of hot slim is worth more than a lifetime of loyal fatty.”

A man *can’t* be HAPPY with a heavy/ugly wife. Not possible.

  • YaReally
    on July 3, 2013 at 5:12 pm
    Original Link

    “A man *can’t* be HAPPY with a heavy/ugly wife. Not possible.”

    As the saying goes: “I could be happy being poor, if I had never been rich.”

on July 3, 2013 at 5:52 pm
Original Link

Abbot and Costello had this exchange:

Costello: When I get married, I’m going to marry an ugly girl

Abbott: Why?

Costello: If I marry a pretty girl, she might leave me

Abbott: But an ugly girl might leave you too

Costello: Yeah, but who cares?

  • YaReally
    on July 4, 2013 at 2:51 am
    Original Link

    lol’ed hard. Those guys were brilliant.

Be A “No, Dear” Man

Original Link

via Heartiste

on July 1, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Original Link

My only question is… Why would you ever go out shopping with a girl? I’ve never “had” to. Many have tried, but they all failed. It’s something I just don’t do. I do however, involve them intermittently in my own activities based on good behavior.

  • YaReally
    on July 2, 2013 at 9:33 am
    Original Link

    lol I don’t mind it. There’s a shit-ton of scenery at the mall and in chick clothing/makeup stores, and I just chat up the bored staff or goof around and try to embarrass my girl by dancing badly to the gay Justin Bieber music they play in the stores and talking loud to her from across the store and trying to sneak into the dressing room with her. Plus if I’m there I can veto shit like her buying a fedora and instead guide her toward buying the tight dress I want to bang her in instead.

    I even hold for the clothes she’s picking out for her while I do all this (no carrying her purse tho, that’s too far lol).

    Sure, guys watching me may think I’m lame, but every chick in the store is thinking “I wish I had a BF like that, he’s so funny and out-going and doesn’t care what anyone thinks!” and my chick can tell those chicks are thinking that. It’s all good in the end.

    Plus then we go eat at the food court. Fuckin’ love me some unhealthy food court food now and then ahhh…

    • Klem
      on July 3, 2013 at 6:18 am
      Original Link

      hey man, have you seen the latest Julian video about texting?
      I’d love to have your opinion on it

      • YaReally
        on July 3, 2013 at 8:15 am
        Original Link

        All solid stuff. No surprise since he’s in the field daily lol. Here are some of my notes on text game in general;

        And a post specifically on my own personal style of txting:

        Side-tangent: When I started with text game there weren’t many resources on it because the concept of txting and cell phones was still new…back when I started we were all about actually calling the girl on the phone, girls would even give out a home phone number lol. So most of my understanding of txt game comes from just txting a fuckton of girls over the years, but, like most game concepts, guys who all spend a lot of time in the field come to generally the same conclusions, so a lot of Julien’s advice gels with mine even if we both figured a lot of it out independently through experience:

        Some things to keep in mind with Julien’s advice:

        1) He builds a shit-ton of attraction in person when he first meets the girl. He’s not like “hey, cool, how’s it going, this is nice weather, oh you go to School? I go to that School too, we should hang out sometime…” zzzz…which is what most guys, even guys who are good at pickup, do. So when Julien does his jumbotron right to the point “What are you doing Saturday?” txts, he gets away with it because the girl remembers him and how amazing their interaction was and the roller-coaster of emotions he pushed her through etc.

        It’s that thing I’ve been saying where when you have high-value, THEN you can be the aloof laconic guy and stand at the bar sipping your martini or txt jumbotron txts, because she’s attracted so she’s curious about you. If you don’t have high-value (ie – you entered the club and then posted up leaning against the bar, not talking to anyone, just hoping your nice suit will be enough), she won’t give a shit or remember you.

        So if you’re making a massive impact on them like Julien does (watch his in-field vids on YouTube), then you can get away with what he’s talking about, but if you’re lower-key than him, expect to have to do some rapport/comfort building.

        2) I’m a lot more verbose in my txting than Julien and I do a lot of my comfort/rapport-building via txt, but that’s just my personality and I’m good at it, so don’t think that you have to do it my way either. Figure out what works for your vibe and calibrate to the girl and your relationship with her and how the pickup went down and her interest level etc.

        3) His rule about try the simplest most direct route first, THEN complicate things if that doesn’t work, is solid. He talks about it in another video (can’t remember which off the top of my head) where Plan A is the simplest direct route, B is more complicated, C is way more complicated, D is a shit-show of game…start with A, and only go to B if you have to, and then only if B doesn’t work go to C, etc. It’s a good principle to keep in mind in general with regards to pickup.

        4) Always be pushing for the meet-up. I’ve said this before, you’re not getting a # to just dick around and have a txt buddy. You’re getting it to push towards another meet-up…so do like he says and be pushing it forward toward meeting up, don’t get sidetracked into sending eachother gay pictures and talking about your day and not leading it anywhere.

        Anyway, it’s all solid advice, especially the little details like being discreet when you get her # (I’ve banged a few girls in secret where their friends NEVER would’ve let me get her # if they realized what I was doing) and using your name and txting an hour before the Day 2 etc. Everyone should give this vid a quick watch.

on July 1, 2013 at 2:11 pm
Original Link

One thing I’ve notice in the corporate world is that a way to indicate your value is the ability to break rapport with senior executives; either that OR showing an ability to not just be a yes-man that agrees with everything. This can manifest itself by having a sense of humor and knowing when to use it. This is just an extension to Heartistes post:

Example at a relatvely important meeting a while back with higher-ups:

When I say higher ups lets say that these guys manage budgets in hundreds of millions and run business lines for countries and continents

Tom the CFO: IG, how about the new coffee machines outside in the conference center? I had two press 6 buttons and answer ten questions just to get a cup.

Me: Tom, tell me about it. I just had to enter my social security number just to get a small espresso.

Tom the CFO: (laughs and walks back to seat at conference table)

Mind you, that’s a very mild example but the point is that the old me would have just agreed with some kind of bland statement as to avoid attention or to avoid saying the wrong thing. Yeah, it could be seen as agree and amplify but gaming and thinking quick on my feet allowed me to riff on the coffee machine with the guy. My position is very junior in comparison to his so being able to display some kind of sense of humor on the spot was a new reality for me.

Up to a certain point, senior execs don’t want brown-nosing, lapdogs to socialize with. You have to be able to act like you’re one of them which is not easy, but that example was a start. A mild one but okay.

One of my former colleagues was really good at breaking rapport with our supervisor and other colleagues if he didnt agree with them on something. Whether it was work related or not. Guess how much respect he got in comparison to most people who just agree so they can come across as agreeable.


[CH: Pro comment.]

  • Matthew King
    on July 1, 2013 at 2:32 pm
    Original Link

    I’ve notice[d] in the corporate world is that a way to indicate your value is the ability to break rapport with senior executives.

    Sounds to me like establishing rapport more than “breaking rapport,” but you’ll search a long time to find semantical sense in PUA etymology. You are assuming the natural “rapport” between a woman and a man is agreeable yes-men, which therefore must be “broken”?

    I love the idea of bringing game into the boardroom, something you should do from the start. But some concepts literally do not translate. My rapport with women is from higher to lower, or as my secretary feministx shrewdly observed, “condescension.” My rapport with men is peer to peer, or easygoing honesty. Executives are not used to straight talk from underlings, but the good ones appreciate it, as would any leader.


    • YaReally
      on July 1, 2013 at 8:49 pm
      Original Link

      “Seeking rapport” = being a yes-man or supplicating, hoping to build rapport from a place of lower value.

      “Establishing rapport” = having a mutually beneficial connection with someone.

      “Breaking rapport” = taking that connection away, from a place of higher value.

      So yes, immoral is actually establishing rapport with his joke. Old wussy immoral who didn’t say anything to avoid fucking up is seeking rapport. And if he told his boss “I didn’t have any problems with the machine.” in a tone of voice like “you’re an idiot for not being able to work the machine” he would be breaking rapport.

      It’s not complicated King, maybe you should have your secretary take better notes for you to skim thru on your way to your next pretend important business meeting to argue about things you’re too lazy to properly research.

      And yes, pickup concepts apply to the business world. Immoral’s example is solid. If I had a son, I would make sure he understood that having people/social skills is more important to getting a job and advancing his career than his actual grades in school. I know guys who’ve talked their way into jobs they’re completely unqualified for or pay raises they didn’t deserve just because they knew how to earn respect and admiration from the right people.

      An oldschool PUA saying (coined by Mystery if I remember right) is “Lead the men and the women will follow”. Tyler back in like 2003 was bragging about how he gets offered jobs all the time because he just establishes rapport with guys the same way he does with girls.

      You can apply game principles to more than the corporate and relationship worlds too. We don’t really harp on it because that stuff reveals itself in time to guys who put in the work/effort and start to realize how many aspects of life learning game is helping them in. It’s exciting to guys when, like Daniel-San realizing “wax on, wax off” had a bigger purpose, they first start realizing they’re learning more than just “how to get pussy” (which people who’s understanding of PUA only goes as far as what they read in a review of The Game (that’s you, King, and Aunt Giggles, and the ladies at Jizzibel etc) think is all PUA is about).

      • Zombie Shane
        on July 1, 2013 at 9:07 pm
        Original Link

        > “And if he told his boss “I didn’t have any problems with the machine.” in a tone of voice like “you’re an idiot for not being able to work the machine” he would be breaking rapport.”

        If I were his boss, and the little cunt talked to me in that tone of voice, then I would immediately pick up the phone, and call the computer geeks, to have him locked out of the corporate computer systems and to have his access card locked out of the building’s doors.

        Then I’d call security to have his ass physically escorted out the door, to the parking lot, and off the premises, never to be seen or heard from again.

        • YaReally
          on July 2, 2013 at 3:52 am
          Original Link

          Yes, it would make you feel bad and uncomfortable and your insecurities would cause you to overreact and throw a temper tantrum because someone dared to not kiss your ass and you need that validation to reassure yourself that you’re the big boss man.

          That’s what “breaking rapport” DOES. It puts the other person in an uncomfortable position where they fall back on base instincts. This is why when cops approach your car they don’t say “so hey? Just curious? Have you had anything to drink tonight? Just wondering lolol!!”, they say “You been drinkin tonight…?” in that downward-toned almost accusatory statement way. They want to shake your frame and make you feel nervous and panic and like you’re in trouble so that you stutter and stammer and answer with whatever rolls to your mind, and then they’ll let suffer some silence so you keep talking and possibly confess. “what? No I mean, well, I had one at a buddies house but it was hours ago…..(silence)…umm I mean, maybe it was two, but, you know we were watching the game and–” and now you’ve technically demonstrated that you lied to the officer about how many beers you’ve had and all he had to do was speak to you in breaking rapport and then just shut up and let you feel the social pressure to fill in the silence.

          Another way to use it is as an AMOGing tool to get rid of cockblocks and guys who are trying to take your girl. “I had a talking part in an episode of law & order once.” “Cool. (silence)”. “ummm and I got to work with blah blah” “Ya dude, that’s fascinating. (tone of voice like not a fuck is given)”. It makes him start feeling insecure about his accomplishment he was proud of because you’re not seeking rapport and he expected you to try to…so then ironically he’ll often start going “so um have you seen the show? Do you like it?” which is him filling the uncomfortable social-pressure silence with then seeking rapport with YOU, which is him reacting to you and qualifying himself to you, which is where the value levels have flipped to any girls listening and now you have higher value than the guy who was on TV.

          That’s actually a method of what I consider almos value-piggybacking…you don’t have to BE the owner of the nightclub, that’s a lot of work lol, all you have to do is get him seeking rapport with you and any girl seeing that will view you as having higher value than the rich social hard-working successful high-status socially-proofed waitress-poon-slaying owner of the nightclub. It’s like skipping the line and riding off other guys’ accomplishments.

          Another way to use breaking rapport is to snuff out behavior you don’t approve of, in men or women. The traditional 1940s father stereotype used this kind of thing. “And did you think that pushing jimmy at school was a good idea. (voice tone going down so it’s more of a statement like no, you KNOW that wasn’t a good idea, son)” and the son goes “…nooo :( ” while he looks down and shuffles his feet feeling the social pressure and lack of authority breaking rapport puts on him.

          On women, it’s good for all these same scenarios, but it’s also attractive to them because it pushes them thru an emotional roller coaster. The RSD guys are big on stopping girls by going “HEY. YOU. Who are you.” in breaking rapport the same way you would halt a criminal if you were a cop. The girls freeze up and panic and feel a rush of “omg am I in trouble???” emotions, and then the PUA releases the social pressure by switching gears from Push to Pull with stuff like “you’re cute, I had to meet you, my name is YaReally” and the girl is flooded with relief the same way you are when the cop finally drives off…

          You’re not attracted to the cop, and in fact you hate him usually, the same way you’d hate immorgables for not sucking your dick about the coffee machine because to you that person is the one who caused you to feel uncomfortable and you want revenge/justice.

          But to girls, who’ve grown up in a princess bubble where only their dad or older brother dared make them feel that, and their husband just makes them feel a bland mundane flatline of emotion like ______ you are providing her with /\/\/\/ which is attractive to women, again thus why they watch soap operas and Twilight and shit, to feel that /\/\/\/ of an emotional roller coaster.

          Wasn’t expecting this post to get that deep into it lol but there ya go.

    • Matthew King
      on July 2, 2013 at 8:37 pm
      Original Link

      All I can say is, look up the word “rapport” in the dictionary.

      “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

      I should have known better than to go into detail and provide impetus for the tangential manifestos.

      • YaReally
        on July 2, 2013 at 8:52 pm
        Original Link

        Okay. Dictionary dot com says:

        1. relation; connection, especially harmonious or sympathetic relation: a teacher trying to establish close rapport with students.

        Example sentences:
        1. Boost your social and communication skills, establish rapport and make friends.
        2. Yes, he found an appreciative biographer with whom he seems to have a warm rapport.
        3. Hence professors have an easy rapport with those who have the innate sense of how to study and grow knowledge.
        4. Rapport, once established, will make your sales almost effortless.
        5. So there was none of that familial domestic rapport she had with us.
        6. The theater of revolution is essentially participatory, requiring more than the usual rapport between actors and audience.
        7. Clearly they had developed a theatrical rapport that came through in the music.
        8. He didn’t have the luxury of building up a rapport with the nation’s elite prospects over several seasons.
        9. His ensuing road show tour to promote his populist agenda has showcased his rapport with voters.”

        Seems alright to me. Seeking, establishing, and breaking. 3 different stages/changes in rapport.

        But please, do continue to avoid admitting you’re wrong by giving other people busywork to do. God forbid you ever admit that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about when it’s clear as day for anyone reading that you don’t.

        It’s okay to be wrong, Matt. We won’t judge you, this is a safe space. Let it all out, you can cry on feministx’s shoulder. We’ll all help you get through this together.

on July 1, 2013 at 2:51 pm
Original Link

David D’Angelo, in his opus “Double Your Dating”, addresses this point about always using “no” in any interaction with a woman. I don’t have the manual in front of me, but he basically said that if a woman ever asked or suggested something, you should automatically reply with “no” and suggest something else. For instance:

- Her: “Should we sit at that table over there?”
- Him: “No…let’s take the booth in the corner. It’ll be more intimate”.

- Her: “What do you think about this necklace for tonight?”
- Him: “Hmm, I think you’d look more beautiful wearing the gold necklace”.

I couldn’t believe at first that a girl would actually like you always saying “no”, but holy crap does it work. I try to remember to use it all the time on my girlfriend, but I’m not perfect. Just using it once a day rekindles the flame of desire.

By the way, after I swallowed the red pill and starting getting more dates with girls, I would religiously read Double Your Dating right before the date would arrive. It offered poignant advice in a fun style that set my head straight for the date. Highly recommend it for guys who are still newbies to ace a date.

  • YaReally
    on July 1, 2013 at 9:02 pm
    Original Link

    One newbie exercise is to disagree with everything the girl says for the first few minutes after approaching her, on purpose and even if its obnoxious.

    You: “Where are you from?”
    Her: “Blah”
    “Oh I hate blah. What do you do for a living?”
    “Oh no, really? I can’t stand Job’ers. What are you drinking?”
    “Vodka cran, I don’t like beer!”
    “Oh that’s too bad, I LOVE beer.”

    It’s just to teach new guy’s that it’s okay to say no to a girl and disagree with her. You can also turn this into an exercise on push/pull and qualification by having the guy then pick a random thing she says and finally agree with her and escalate off that agreement as her “reward” for finally saying something right. ie:

    “Why did you move here?”
    “Oh man, I LOVE girls who Reason. Okay, I love you now, come here (hug)”

    The biggest blue pill bullshit in the world is that you shouldn’t make women upset…every fucking soap opera, movie, gay vampire story, etc is built around making women upset and then relieved then upset again then relieved again etc. that’s why they read 50 Shades of Grey and not a story about a Nice Guy husband who gives his wife massages and cooks a pleasant dinner and they live happy and conflict-free lives.

    • immoralgables
      on July 1, 2013 at 9:16 pm
      Original Link

      Thanks for the reminder. I just started another 30 Day Challenge today and it was humbling to say the least as I tried to approach girls near Times Square.

      The stuff you mentioned about disagreeing wasn’t even on my mind as I was trying to open girls on the street.

      I feel like I’ve started from the bottom again and that’s okay with me. Hopefully I can remember to incorporate your routine tomorrow as today made me feel like straight-up newb.

      • YaReally
        on July 2, 2013 at 5:49 am
        Original Link

        Good luck, take it slow & steady. You’re out for 30 days, you don’t have to improve everything at once. Focus on body language one day, on eye contact the next, on teasing the next, on kino the next, escalating the next, etc. etc. Down the road you can work on more in-depth stuff like, “okay I’m approaching 10 chicks a day, and that’s cool, but there’s no sexual intent behind it so now I’m going to focus on turning the conversation sexual with innuendo within the first minute”

        If you haven’t hit the gym hard in a while, you don’t have to lift the heaviest weights on day one. :) Have fun, and good on you for going out! Hit us with some updates as the challenge goes on and I’ll try to do up some feedback for you.

    • Matthew
      on July 1, 2013 at 11:08 pm
      Original Link

      I’ve been playing this with my daughter. It’s fun. She wants to tell me things she’s excited about, and I just shit all over them. New doll? “Oh, my that’s so ugly.” Fake retching. She loves it. “Nuh uh!”.

      • Southern Man
        on July 2, 2013 at 7:57 am
        Original Link

        For a recovering beta like me my teen daughters were a terrific proving ground for learning game. And it completely revolutionized my relationships with both of them.

        • YaReally
          on July 2, 2013 at 9:26 am
          Original Link

          Most of the best players I’ve met grew up with multiple sisters (older and/or younger) and got 1) a behind-the-scenes look at how silly girls really are and how bullshit the “bitchy club girl” facade they put on is (they aren’t that way around their family on xmas morning opening presents with no makeup on after shitting out xmas even dinner), and 2) used to teasing and making fun of their silly shit and not taking their ridiculous drama seriously.

          Both are skills that translated extremely well when they hit puberty and started being interested in girls. Compare that to the guy who grew up with no sisters and considers them magical unicorns he only sees on special occasions when they’re in full intimidating perfect unicorn mode lol

Holden Caulfield
on July 1, 2013 at 3:18 pm
Original Link

More insight for the beta boyz out there and a reminder for the rest of us:

“I see my extramarital affairs as a different nutrition. Just as I need extra minerals since I’m a mature woman, I need the affair as I am still beautiful and horny. Calcium for my bones and chrome and zinc… all of these are not provided in my regular diet, and so I need to take some additives to my food. My extramarital affairs are additives to my health, regardless of my activities with my husband.” A married woman

As CH has said before in the archives: The true nature of women revealed.

That excerpt was pulled from a Psychology Today article called “Is Junk Sex as Bad as Junk Food?”

  • YaReally
    on July 1, 2013 at 9:10 pm
    Original Link

    This is basically what I said when I was explaining to some concerned moral knights my views on women cheating in a recent comment section.

    If their guy provides all the minerals they need, they won’t seek them elsewhere. If he doesn’t, they’ll stray, and they will completely hamster-rationalize it to avoid guilt…and society will back them up on their Eat Pray Love adventures because deep-down they KNOW what they aren’t telling you.

    So learn some fucking game and don’t become stagnant in life as a man or some jackass like me will be going down on your girl while she answers your 10th call asking where she is and she’ll be trying not to cum as she tells you she’s with her BFF Sarah lol

Greatest Beta
on July 1, 2013 at 6:54 pm
Original Link

TL DR version: don’t be a wimp with women.

Due to my feminine hamster (hat tip whorefinder) I would pick fights with girlfriends for the lolz. My boys always thought I was batshit crazy for doing so as most of them avoid conflict. Me? I love a fight for fun just to stir the pot.

  • YaReally
    on July 1, 2013 at 9:14 pm
    Original Link

    Sounds like THIS alpha loves to fight!

    lol, sorry couldn’t resist. <3

on July 2, 2013 at 6:57 am
Original Link

Saying NO and MEANGING NO. If you compromise then it’s a discussion. If you want to compromise better to make a counter offer.

Her: I wanna go shopping

Me: Let’s meet up after you’re finished. Gives me time to go to the gym. Perfect

Her: blah blah blah

Take it or leave it.

Pre-game me would have negotiated.

I was gaming an 18 year old who told me she likes older guys because she doesn’t like making decisions and so wants to have a stronger older guy.

Then without any irony she shit-tested me by saying:

“Older guys are so stubborn”.

I never bothered replying to that.

  • YaReally
    on July 2, 2013 at 9:21 am
    Original Link

    “Saying NO and MEANGING NO. If you compromise then it’s a discussion.”

    This. Perfect. You’ve been dropping solid gold lately, you’re one of the usernames I search for when I read the comment section.