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Overselectivity And Anti-Game: Like Oil And Water

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Matador
on September 16, 2011 at 4:38 pm
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It’s a classic case of projection. Any warpig with a little fame or power will feel entitled to snag a top quality man. It’s like ugly female CEOs who call themselves alpha. No, bitch, alpha means attractive to the other gender, and therefore only beautiful young females are entitled to have a checklist (which will be flushed down the mental toilet if she meets an experienced seducer).

Anyway, the guy is to blame too. In the dating scene, there are very few excuses left for autistic social retardation.


  • Matador
    on September 16, 2011 at 5:34 pm
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    Maybe i was too harsh, the guy may have to work on his body language and inner game. But he’s not a desperate case.

    Naah, it’s not a lack of game. Maybe she’s just a cunt, or he did not return her calls.


    • YaReally
      on September 16, 2011 at 7:45 pm
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      Just keep in mind that everyone comes off more confident and secure and alpha when they’re talking about their passions. This is an interview about his Magic skills, so he feels awesome and badass. On a date with a girl where he might be worried she’ll think it’s nerdy, talking about “safe” subjects he isn’t as passionate about, his body language and all might be way worse.

      It’s called “situational confidence”. Like the bartender who can get laid as long as he’s partying in the bar he works in. Or the CEO who rules over an entire office but gets nervous making small-talk with a hot chick.

      No judgement on Finkel, I’m sure he’s a cool guy in general and I hope he finds a chick who likes his hobbies, but the Chateau explanation of “if you don’t turn her on, she’ll actively hunt out reasons to reject you that she would’ve thought were cool if you had game” is very accurate so I’d guess this was a case of situational confidence.

      Also props to Finkel for handling it like an alpha, he hasn’t talked smack about the chick at all. After this incident he should have no problem getting laid left and right haha


    • YaReally
      on September 16, 2011 at 7:49 pm
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      Another possibility is that he wasn’t into her, so she looked for reasons to reject him first to save face. The guy is a zillionaire, top celebrity of his craft, good looking, etc. He might have just sensed she was a crappy human being who has no idea she’s crappy, and not been interested. This happens a lot too. “How could he NOT be into me?? He plays MAGIC!! I wouldn’t want anything to do with him ANYWAY!! I’m gonna write an article lol”



YaReally
on September 16, 2011 at 8:00 pm
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Great article. Very accurate. This is really common, and it extends not just to not being ashamed of your hobbies, but to your sense of humor, topics you discuss, the way you dress, the job you have, etc. If you have game, girls will not just accept all of that, but think it’s cool. If you don’t have game, they’ll use it as ammo to reject you.

I have a buddy who talks about class 6 hurricane formations and shit with girls. He’s passionate about that stuff and has game, so they love it.

The over-entitled chick in the article reminds me of this fan Joe Rogan runs into. Watch these for an excellent display of a guy with a strong frame not doing what the over-entitled princess wants, and the way she 180s into calling him names and being insulted and completely re-writing events in her head to justify it all, just because he won’t do what she says.

This is the modern American under 25 chick in action:

Joe Rogan is awesome. He has amazing frame control and stands up for what he thinks is right and wrong, watch his other interviews. He’s 100% congruent because he’s being 100% honest and tears through other people’s bullshit. It’s great.

And just to pre-empt the people who can read the subcommunications in the situation in the videos above: Yes, he CAN absolutely fuck this chick, even at the end when she’s calling him a bitch, he can turn it around at any time. But he knows it right off the bat and isn’t interested. The guy parties with pornstars and shit, a girl like this is bottom of the barrel for him. This could be similar to what happened with Finkel and the nerd girl. He may not have been interested, so she looks for reasons to think he’s a loser and types up an article to assuage her bruised ego.



Why Chicks Dig Egotistic Men, &c.

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YaReally
on September 14, 2011 at 8:03 pm
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“Women alone are better same night lay prospects, especially if you’re strong in the comfort stage, but women in groups offer more opportunity (via social dynamic pathways) to raise your value and build attraction in the early stages of pickup.”

Ya, dead on.

Remember that “away from her group” is as simple as turning her around so she can’t see them. All a girl fears is judgement, if she can’t consciously see her friends she doesn’t feel them judging her and will let loose as if she were alone.

If you and a wing chat up 2 girls, take a few steps to the side as you talk so yours turns to face you with her back to her friend. They both still feel safe ’cause subconsciously they know their friend is behind them but they focus on you and your buddy instead of worrying about peer-judgement and you can both get away with makeouts, phone numbers, etc. that you wouldn’t have if you and your buddy stood beside eachother as 2 guys facing 2 girls like I see SO many guys do.

It sounds dumb, I know, but there’s a lot of group psychology behind the concept to explain why it makes a significant difference. It’s similar to Mystery’s “approach someone head on and they feel scared, approach from the side and they feel comfortable” concept. These are little things but they make a difference.



A Test Of Your Game: The Judging

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King A
on September 13, 2011 at 4:56 pm
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No sour grapes, but does Hartiste have a mancrush on YaReally or what? They’ve been tickling each others’ balls with featured comments for weeks. Yes, we were all caught in a 2004 time warp before this alpha rogue swooped in to liberate us with his Secrets of the YaReallyBrotherhood. Please. Make your comment without feeling some urgent need to Demonstrate your contrived Higher Value against us wretched urchins of the combox.

The “test” was an essay exam with no correct answer. The scenario was too impressionistic to do anything with but lay out proper frame. Success chiefly depends on vibe — or “exigency” — and the only way to answer fully is to fabricate details that weren’t communicated.

The true test of game is improvisation based on strong principles and applied with courage. The precise formulation of what you say is hardly ever as important as how you say it. If I recall, “Just Say Something” was a blog post here once. I suspect if you had real time transcripts of our best interactions, we’d look at the words on the page and think, “Huh? How did that work?” But it does.

Sixty percent of all human communication is nonverbal, body language; thirty percent is your tone. So that means that ninety percent of what you’re saying ain’t coming out of your mouth.

(A fortune cookie of wisdom in a film that, like all attempts to portray game, ultimately devolved into the poo-poo platter.)


  • YaReally
    on September 14, 2011 at 4:45 am
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    “does Hartiste have a mancrush on YaReally or what?”

    lol

    “They’ve been tickling each others’ balls with featured comments for weeks.”

    ‘Cuz I’m awesome.

    “The scenario was too impressionistic to do anything with but lay out proper frame.”

    Not if you have a lot of experience. Quit KJ’ing and spouting theory and go out more and you’ll find you run into a lot of the same situations over and over and can extrapolate from “impressionistic” scenarios based on that experience.

    “The true test of game is improvisation based on strong principles and applied with courage. The precise formulation of what you say is hardly ever as important as how you say it.”

    Blah blah blah. This is true, but shit like this is why I “Demonstrate my contrived Higher Value against you wretched urchins of the combox”, ’cause you’re just mentally masturbating with this mentality. “90% of communication isn’t words, so I’m not going to work on words!!!” “I bet no one is smooth when they succeed, so I’m not going to work on being smooth!!!” “Looks don’t matter so I’m going to dress like a slob!!!” “Money doesn’t matter so I’m going to live like a bum!!!” “Game is overthinking, I’m just going to barrel in like a bull in a china shop and cross my fingers!!!”

    Ya, it can work here and there. But if you actually worked on all aspects of your game, you’d get more consistent results. That’s all PUAs strive for: consistent results.

    “I suspect if you had real time transcripts of our best interactions, we’d look at the words on the page and think, “Huh? How did that work?””

    Not if you understand the concepts of game. This goes back to what I said about the Horse Girl opener and watching the Simple Pickup guys. If you don’t understand game, it looks/sounds silly. If you understand game, you see a dozen consistent attraction concepts that form the structure of why the “silly thing” worked.


    • King A
      on September 14, 2011 at 1:31 pm
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      YaReally wrote: “I bet no one is smooth when they succeed, so I’m not going to work on being smooth!!!”

      Always work on being smooth. The silkier the better. But smoothness is more execution and state of mind than it is the choice of words. You implied as much in your Horse Girl opener commentary. So basic a lesson may seem obvious to you, but it’s apparently a big stumbling block for initiates.

      Yes, work on all aspects of your game — combining the right words with the right frame and the right tone is the holy grail. But in a pinch, we all prioritize. Until you develop a total facility with all facets of the game, concentrating on the essentials is your best bet. Forget practicing the 360 Gorilla Dunk if you’re having trouble with the dribble.

      Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. If repartee isn’t your forte, work on your je ne sais quois. (Eat my French, le Chateau.) The tingly intangibles are more vital than the quality of your script. The confidence and mastery that is conveyed by a sure delivery animates the tingle, not the words themselves. Often confidence is best conveyed laconically, or even in silence.


      • YaReally
        on September 14, 2011 at 7:04 pm
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        “Until you develop a total facility with all facets of the game, concentrating on the essentials is your best bet. Forget practicing the 360 Gorilla Dunk if you’re having trouble with the dribble.”

        I concur. I think we just have different definitions of which part are the essentials. Body language is more important than words for sure (Hitch’s 90/10 ratio I’d agree with), but words are a lot easier to get a newbie to fix than body language.

        For example: A newbie who walks into a bar standing up straight with his head up who knows to speak slowly and make eye contact when he talks to someone is still going to stand there not talking to anyone. He could go out a hundred nights and he’s still going to feel as socially akward as before.

        Reversed: A newbie who walks into a bar looking akward, but can open 10 chicks and tease/flirt to keep a conversation going for a few minutes is going to naturally start to feel less nervous about approaching or being in a social environment because he’s got a guideline to follow to throw himself into 10 interactions. A hundred nights later, he’s probably going to have a lot more confident body language and relaxed tone of voice.

        Environment counts too. James Bond doesn’t get laid at a nightclub, Stiffler does. But James Bond would rock less chaotic environments like daygame.


  • YaReally
    on September 14, 2011 at 5:04 am
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    Also, because you quoted Hitch:


    • King A
      on September 14, 2011 at 1:07 pm
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      This is the good part of Hitch, before he inexplicably turns into a herbly weirdo. I haven’t been able to revisit the movie since the last half shits all over the first and left me with the taste of dookie in my mouth. Thanks for the post, I had a dim memory of the good parts.

      But it also goes to my point. This is a great dialogue scene that presents pick-up in its ideal Platonic form — an artistic rendering of what you call “KJ’ing,” “spouting theory,” and “blah blah blah.” These conversations are only possible because one screenwriter is composing both sides of the exchange. The scene artistically approximates the feeling we get after a successful approach, but be totally honest — nobody talks like that. Nobody talks like Grace Kelly and Cary Grant in To Catch A Thief either. Or Romeo and Juliet, for that matter. Life is improv, and improv is not seamless. Better to internalize that truth and roll with it so that hiccups in your delivery don’t throw you completely.

      The long, involved third-person references, the rapid exchange of perfect witticisms, the eliciting of precise reactions from the mark — these things happen but never with such high gloss. That’s why most responses to “A Test of Your Game” were insufficient: commenters were playing screenwriter rather than the extemporaneous master of “exigency.”

      Or, to coin a phrase, “It rarely goes as smoothly as you think it will in your imagination.” That was Heartiste’s ultimate takeaway that strengthens real game — the practical skill set that comes in handy when you “go out more” — rather than wasting effort on a quixotic attempt to make the world into a movie in which you play the lead role.

      Le Chateau has endowed you with plenty of web cred to call out my criticisms, so get down with your bad self. My narrow point about the mutual scrote tickle was this: Your responses are strong — strong enough to stand alone without needlessly calling attention to the contrast. “Try-hard” put-downs of journeymen are beneath you.


      • YaReally
        on September 14, 2011 at 7:29 pm
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        “These conversations are only possible because one screenwriter is composing both sides of the exchange. The scene artistically approximates the feeling we get after a successful approach, but be totally honest — nobody talks like that.”

        No. YOU don’t talk like that. It takes a certain combination of personality types: The guy has to have sharp verbal wit, and the girl has to have a certain level of sarcastic shit-testing verbal wit, but it’s not some magical alignment of the planets.

        If your personality type is the “the less you say, the cooler you are” James Bond type, then you won’t have interactions like this. If your personality type is the over-the-top Stiffler party-caveman, then you won’t have interactions like this. But if your personality is more Ryan Reynolds, John Mayer, etc. dry/sarcastic wit, you’ll have tons of them.

        If the girl’s personality type is the “shy, quiet girl” type, you won’t have interactions like this. If her personality type is the “out-going friendly nice girl” type, you won’t have interactions like this. But if her personality type is the “confident, sarcastic shit-testing” type, you’ll have tons of them.

        This is why I call KJ theory on what you posted. You’re making absolutes about “that’s not how it really works” the way someone who hasn’t visited Africa says “they all live in mud huts”. If you had more experience socializing and meeting and befriending tons of different personality types, you wouldn’t make those absolutes. Notice that I’m not making an absolute saying that you’re wrong, I’m just saying you’re right but in a very small section of the puzzle and you don’t seem to have glanced over the rest of the puzzle yet.



So, Do the Zonk
on September 13, 2011 at 5:25 pm
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Since this is really a group blog now anyway (2 or 3 people posting?), the Chateau should get YaReally to be a regular poster right out on the blog. The guy’s advice is solid.


  • YaReally
    on September 14, 2011 at 4:53 am
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    lol I’ve just been around and know my shit. I like the Chateau, men in today’s society need a site like this. I only originally chimed in to clear up the Horse Girl opener. Now I’m in love with you all. But, you know, only in a gay way.



Leaving Her Better Than You Found Her? Not Likely

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YaReally
on September 9, 2011 at 6:25 pm
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Nah.

Your description’s flawed from the start. What’s best for a person isn’t always what makes them happy. If a kid steals cookies and you discipline him, is he gonna’ feel happy? Content with life? Filled with joy and whimsy?

No. But that doesn’t mean you let him take a cookie. Teaching him not to steal shit is making him a better person. He’s sad in the moment, but in the long-term he’s better off.

People who don’t understand what “Leave her better than you found her” means haven’t been in a lot of relationships. A PUAs abundance mentality, confidence, ability to read people, understanding of psychology and self-help concepts, ability to make tough decisions, etc. makes him well-equipped to positively influence a person’s life.

Take the scenario of picking up a MILF. PUA rules for that particular situation:

- Don’t tell a chick you love her just to get in her pants, you’re confident and can get laid elsewhere easy enough to not have to resort to that.

- Don’t string along older women and waste their prime child-bearing and husband-finding years, that’s not cool, you know you’re not her Mr. Right so don’t waste her time.

- Don’t meet her kids unless you want to become their dad, you could damage the kid’s psyche pretty bad.

When the PUA breaks up with her, there’s no damage to her kid, the MILF has had a fun confidence-boosting adventure and feels sexy again, and she’s back in the dating pool with plenty of time to meet some nice provider guy. Plus the PUA let her know it was just a fun time going in, so she wasn’t expecting him to settle down with her (even if she hoped it might happen).

Average guys would meet a MILF with a kid, lie about being in love with her to get in her pants since they’re desperate and need to get laid, meet her kids because they’re too weak-willed to say “no” or too desperate to risk losing sex that they have to cave, and if down the road they lose interest in the MILF they would keep dating her for years before finally growing the balls to end things because they’re too weak to man up and don’t have any other female options waiting for them.

When the average guy breaks up with her, her kid ends up with trust issues (both her dad AND her “new dad” have walked out on them), the MILF is old and withered and crushed because she thought for sure this was her chance but it’s years later and now she’s past her prime and no other guys want her, and she feels betrayed and used and bitter.

Which guy left her better than he found her?

Is she happy the PUA left her? No, of course not, she’d love to land him for good. But does she come out of it a better person? Especially compared to how the average guy would handle the situation? Hell ya.

Oldschool PUAs used to give eachother shit by quoting that “Leave her better than you found her” motto if a guy was doing something that would damage a girl. Modern pickup is so mainstream though that it’s like everyone has been given a loaded gun instead of just the responsible, trained police. Most newbie PUAs will never even hear that motto and will fuck up a lot of chicks, and that’s a shame.



Goading Girls Into Testing You

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askjoe
on September 8, 2011 at 4:30 pm
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Shit test received when peacocking one time, wearing light sunglasses indoors to a club, “it looks like youre trying too hard. ” Pre-heartiste, defended self, eventually took sunglasses off. Now? I suppose I should look at it as a challenge and not “helpful” advice.

[Heartiste: Yup. Hold onto your frame with your life. If you do, you'll keep them on and answer with something like this: "Barely trying. But you might want to try harder.]


  • YaReally
    on September 9, 2011 at 2:24 am
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    “It looks like you’re trying too hard.”

    “Ya. I have to make up for my extremely small penis.”

    Guaranteed she won’t have a clever response to that.

    And now you two are talking about your penis. The community used to follow something like that up with “It’s like a wet baby carrot. You’re going to be so disappointed when we get back to my place.” I would throw in something about not even being able to slap her across the face with it, but I can get away with that.

    Now you’re using future projection to imply that she’s going to be back at your place seeing your penis, you’re showing her your frame is un-fazed by her test, you’re showing humility and that you’re not outcome dependent or trying to impress her, and the conversation is sexual and mind-blowing to her compared to what she was expecting so her hamster is playing catch-up. All in the first 10 seconds of meeting a girl for the first time.

    That’s called game. :)



Alpha Delivery

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thrasymachus33308
on September 2, 2011 at 3:19 pm
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That’s the paradox of game. If you need it, it probably won’t work very well for you. If you can do it well, you probably don’t need it. If you can do this routine, you can probably get the same result by just talking to the girl.

[Heartiste: I'm sure the horse opener has some merit on its own, even for a veteran like bradp. Maybe he discovered that he gets better responses with this than with "hi". Like any self-improvement pursuit, you'll only get experience through practice. And body language and tonality can be learned just as much as canned openers.]


  • YaReally
    on September 3, 2011 at 6:51 pm
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    Horse Girl builds way more attraction than most openers because it actively goads the girl into shit-testing him and lets him display his alphaness. There are a lot of deep concepts fused into that opener that most guys reading can’t see because they’re still reading the surface level words and don’t really understand how attraction works…yet. :)



Blajard
on September 2, 2011 at 5:38 pm
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I’d say alpha sub communication (body language, tonality etc.) is 95% of game by itself. Alphas can get away with almost anything because its not so much what you do but how you do it. A alpha holding the door for someone is saying hurry up and come through and quit wasting my time when I’m doing you a favor. A beta doing this is saying youre better than me and I was meant to serve you. These messages are sent subconsciously through body language.

I also notice alphas arent tryhard and do what they want with no shame even if it wont make them fit in. If a alpha wants to wear a pink shirt he will do so without shame. If you make fun of him youre the one who will look stupid as you get no reaction from him and will not be able to make him crack under social pressure. Seems more like social norms, fads, etc. were made for betas by betas and alphas break them if they want without loss of social status because of their rock solid frame. A beta cant get away with this because his body language betrays hes not confident in breaking the social norm. .


  • YaReally
    on September 3, 2011 at 6:29 pm
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    Ya. An alpha and a beta walk into a bar wearing ridiculous fuzzy hats. People make fun of both of them to their faces.

    The beta feels dumb and makes excuses for wearing his hat and ends up taking it off later in the night because he’s embarrassed.

    The alpha laughs and feels bad for anyone who makes fun of his hat because they obviously don’t understand how awesome it is, the poor fuckers.

    Peacocking, negs, Horse Girl openers, etc. are all just ways of goading girls into shit-testing you so you can demonstrate that their shit-tests don’t phase you, which is what builds attraction (if you don’t fail her shit-test, you probably don’t fail the rest of the world’s shit-tests). If you’re a nice guy, you don’t get shit-tested, so you don’t get to demonstrate whether they’ll fluster you or not, so you don’t build attraction and stand there wondering why the asshole keeps getting the girl.

    Once you fully understand this concept, pickup becomes a lot less complicated. …and a lot more fun. :)



YaReally
on September 3, 2011 at 6:18 pm
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“But my issue with the Horse Opener had more to do with the idea of foisting it on unready newbs in unwelcoming circumstances.”

It’s not supposed to be for total newbies, but that particular opener is BradP’s big claim to fame so it’s been spread around like crazy and newbies stumble onto it thinking it’s a magic opener the way a child stumbles onto his dad’s gun and plays with it because it wasn’t locked up. That same child will be able to handle the gun properly when it grows up.

“It’d be best to teach these guys the right nonverbal cues with a much simpler opener that won’t have them straining to recall all the details or rushing to get the words out and then crashing and burning in DLV dorkhell.”

That’s the direction the PUA community is heading now, focus on the internals and subcommunication instead of the externals. The external method still works and gets you to the same place, it’s just a lot more mental work to memorize a long opener than to go in with the advice of “just be cool”.

Two things to consider with long complicated openers though:

1) It gives you a ton of reference points to improve on. Horse Guy in that gym story can go back home and say “ok I lost her after this part of the story, what did I do there that BradP doesn’t do? Oh, okay, I was rushing it, next time I’ll make a mental note to slow it down…why does slowing down make a difference anyway?” and study that. Or if he runs the opener twice and one time it goes over awesome and the next it bombs he can look at it and go “I said the EXACT same words both times, but the results were way different…so what was I doing, thinking, feeling, speaking, etc. that was different between the two times because THAT’S where I should be focusing.

2) New guys tend to over-think. Often they’re computer nerds. As they’re talking to a girl they’re over-thinking everything and talking themselves out of continuing. Giving them something to occupy their brain keeps them from doubting themselves because they’re thinking “trust the opener, just keep talking, the punchline is coming” and they stick in a little longer than they would have if they were just going up and saying “Hi……..umm…” and they learn to deal with a little social pressure, they learn girls aren’t super scary and getting shot down isn’t a big deal, etc.

I think these days guys are looking for a quick guaranteed move where they can leap out of the shadows, say a magic line, have it work on the first go, and get the girl, but that’s like trying to become a boxer without taking a few punches in the ring on your way.

“Based on YaReally’s checklist, I can easily imagine how the aspiring PUA in the failed Horse Opener attempt blew his shot.”

Yep. You nailed them all. The girl in the story will just see him as “scattered” or “weird” and only remembers the vibe of the interaction, not the details of what he was saying, because his subcommunications were fucking him up from the start and drowning out anything he was saying. But when you know what to look for, even just from her description of the interaction you can tell where the guy went wrong and form a pretty accurate visual of how it probably went down.

Hot girls have amazing frame control, they develop it because the world works differently for them while they’re young and hot:

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/3895433/pov-hot-girl

Same way the former high school jock who was always good with girls has amazing frame control:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rly1ZZ076G8

Your chick-friend had better frame control than the guy approaching her, and she would never be able to articulate that because she didn’t consciously develop it.