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Feminist Gets Pumped And Dumped By PUA

Original Link

via Heartiste

hepsas
on October 25, 2011 at 1:08 pm
Original Link

One point: it’s not clear that this is her getting pump and dumped.

She doesn’t say what the one text said, if she responded, etc. Maybe this guy is swimming in girls and doesn’t think he has time to fuck the same girl twice. But it seems likely he was hoping to turn her into a semi-regular hook up, but blew it by overdoing the aloofness.

[Heartiste: Um, no. It seems likely that he wasn't interested in seeing her again. Hence, the three day wait to send a tepid text. He probably felt bad about completely cutting off contact.]

I think there’s a lesson here, that if a girl fucks on the first date, and you want to fuck her again, from a purely selfish perspective you should be at least a *little bit* nice to her, to help her not feel like a slut.

[Or maybe he didn't want to fuck her again. You know, some girls are not hot enough to warrant a second fucking, let alone an LTR.]


  • shiva1008
    on October 25, 2011 at 5:06 pm
    Original Link

    I actually did that exact thing last week. I liked the girl but sent her a non-sequitur text 4-5 days after the date, and she didn’t reply. This after she told me to call/text at the end of the date. I’m fairly sure that I overdid it on the aloofness. Now both of us are too proud to reinitiate. Maybe I’ll try inviting her to one of my shows in a couple of months


    • Ripp
      on October 26, 2011 at 3:05 am
      Original Link

      IMO:

      If interested in repeat sessions or an LTR, you’ve got 3 days, MAX, to respond. After she leaves (or you leave), her ASD [Anti-Slut Defense] and hamster spinning regret [Buyer's Remorse] turn on full blast. If you give no response and day 4 has reached, you’ve basically said: “you’re a slut.” And she’ll either disapear, or you’re back in compliance attaining mode. [Game on].

      If she’s worth recycling, txt/call her within 3 days. Preferably within the first, with something very lightly validating “had fun w u” “get home ok?” And build from there. Even then she may not respond. Or will cling on like shit on a fly. Either way, you, playa, are in control. NEXT or next time, done and done.

      Chalk another one up for the good guys.


      • A.B. Dada
        on October 26, 2011 at 12:05 pm
        Original Link

        I disagree with this 100%. Here’s why:

        In my experience, the hamster of a woman is VERY good at controlling a woman’s outer brain actions after a date — whether or not sex is involved.

        If I go out with a gal on a “first date” and she doesn’t text me at the end of the night or at least the next morning that she had a great time, she’s out. Not because I’m not interested in her, but her hamster has basically told her outer brain to not send that important text showing the door’s open for another meet up.

        Did this NYC slut text him that she had a great night? I don’t see any proof of it. So he did ABSOLUTELY the right thing, even if he wanted more.

        Women give signals to their inner desires. The after date text is massively important for me. If I don’t get it, she’s basically told me she’s not interested.

        Sure, I might pursue her again for a casual banging, but I absolutely, positively will not invest further if she doesn’t do what women MUST do to show me that they want more.

        Alpha, beta, whatever: if a gal doesn’t take 30 seconds to say she had a nice time, she’s out of any relationship possibility but a random banging now and then.


        • YaReally
          on October 27, 2011 at 2:29 am
          Original Link

          “If I go out with a gal on a “first date” and she doesn’t text me at the end of the night or at least the next morning that she had a great time, she’s out.”

          Maybe you should be a more interesting date.

          lol no I’m just fuckin with ya, I couldn’t resist the opening.

          seriously tho, it sounds like you might be approaching things from a more “qualify her for relationship potential” frame than the guy in the OP or guys like Ripp and I. You’ve said yourself that you don’t really do the bar scene.

          A girl you pick up in the daytime or thru social circle who invests in an actual date with you has way less worry about you judging her than the “under 4 hours” one night stand girls. The former girls have a lot more safety/comfort built in (“I met him in the day, he seems nice”) so they’re less likely to fall into the buyer’s remorse hamster spinning that a girl who puts out an hour after meeting me is going to (“omg I don’t know anything ABOUT him I can’t believe I ditched my friends to fuck this random stranger I don’t even know his name!!”)

          So in conclusion I agree with both you and Ripp but I think you two are talking about different scenarios. :)



berg
on October 25, 2011 at 3:43 pm
Original Link

I would actually defend this woman, but it’s so simple to keep your pants on at least for the first date or several that I cannot do it.

What scares me (not me personally because none of this applies to me) is people like Roosh (assuming everything is not just 100% made up.)

Roosh talks about several girls who he sounds like he really cared for and actually dated. If you were one of those girls, are you a whore or did you get Really Badly Used?

See….this whole waiting for marriage thing is for the most part out, so there needs to be some rules to avoid Roosh-ville.

I think if you are a gamer u can play the one night stand feminists (even though you are still a rat and a man whore, and shitty marriage material – don’t kid yourself)….but if you go on a few dates with a girl and do something like this then you are pure evil.

And another thing I wonder…Does Heartsy with his long term gfs tell them upfront before they have sex that “I have no intention of getting married and you will not change that and this relationship has a George Clooney max 1-2 year time limit.” (George is so gay and has these girls under contract)

Because if he isn’t doing that then this is all just false advertising and abuse.

I mean there has to be Rules and Fair Play in all of this.


  • YaReally
    on October 26, 2011 at 12:27 am
    Original Link

    Experienced PUAs are up front about it. A buddy of mine texts other girls to set up dates while cuddling with the one that’s in his bed and tells them flat out he’s not going to be their boyfriend. I have an engaged chick coming over this week to fuck and she’s recommended restaurants for me to take my main mLTR to and knows not to come over and surprise me because I’ll probably have “company”.

    If you’re congruent and don’t fail shit-tests, girls will accept pretty much anything when they’re attracted. Even if you’re up front about not wanting anything serious though, you have to monitor how attached the girl is getting and cut her off if she’s starting to get too lovey dovey, or you’ll end up breaking her heart. Girls just naturally get attached over time.

    That’s also why you don’t see them more than once a week.

    Guys who don’t get laid often have to lie about who they are, what they do, or what they’re looking for, because they’re scared they won’t get laid if they fuck things up.

    An alpha doesn’t lie because he doesn’t care if the chick isn’t down with his situation…there’s another girl that looks just like her up the street.

    [Heartiste: So true. I think a lot of betas who have little experience with women can't even fathom how a guy can have a rotating stable of regulars who all know that he sees other women and are copacetic with it. But it happens. "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in the beta mind..."]


    • Anonymous
      on October 26, 2011 at 10:35 am
      Original Link

      “you have to monitor how attached the girl is getting and cut her off if she’s starting to get too lovey dovey, or you’ll end up breaking her heart.”

      Why the precautions? Just break her fucking heart. What was the dumb slut thinking?


      • YaReally
        on October 27, 2011 at 2:34 am
        Original Link

        Like Spider-Man taught us: With great power comes great responsibility.

        It’s not cool to treat people like shit when they haven’t done anything wrong.



YaReally
on October 25, 2011 at 3:45 pm
Original Link

She has Buyer’s Remorse because the guy didn’t make her feel special after. I assume she’s ugly or bad in bed and he just didn’t give enough of a shit to bother with it but if he wanted to avoid this situ and make her feel good about being a one night stand, all he had to do was txt her something flirty after she left his house at 3am instead of 3 days later. Even a simple “that was fun, get home safe. Sweet dreams” and she’d have thought it was the most romantic amazing wonderful night of her life and would have written an article about following your instincts into love blah blah blah.

THEN start tapering off contact with her because from his behavior it sounds like she was probably ugly or bad in bed. This is a good way to avoid any “he said she said” false “i regret my decisions so it was rape” accusations.

Kudos to the “boy” in the story. That was classic PUA 101, especially the “just one nightcap but then you have to go home” stuff.


  • Lord Valtrex
    on October 25, 2011 at 4:11 pm
    Original Link

    The “nightcap” gave her a mental out. So her hamster can tell her girl friend’s hamsters the sex “just happened”.


    • YaReally
      on October 26, 2011 at 12:10 am
      Original Link

      Yep. The “you can come in, but just for one drink, then you have to go” is an important part of it too. It’s like a false time constraint (“I can only stay for a minute but…”).


  • Anonymous
    on October 25, 2011 at 7:53 pm
    Original Link

    I may be wrong but your tone suggests that you’re slipping into the dark side. I like it because nothing is more annoying than white knight PUAs.


    • YaReally
      on October 26, 2011 at 12:08 am
      Original Link

      You have no idea.


  • Ripp
    on October 26, 2011 at 4:39 am
    Original Link

    Agree with YaReally.

    @ Anonymous: “white knight PUAs?” False analogy.

    Good & Evil is irrelevant terminology for the aspiring PUA. For the PUA is a hind-brain ninja pursuing the instinctual impulse to drain his balls in some slut.

    @Lord Valtrex: “it just happened” “I didn’t plan on this” “I don’t usually do this” “how did this happen” “he like, tricked me” and on and on and on…the hamster spins…

    Bahahhahahahah


    • Anonymous
      on October 26, 2011 at 10:19 am
      Original Link

      I agree. “White knight” was a poor choice of words. I was just referring to the “leave her better than you found her” crowd. There are lots of them out there.
      I was mistakenly thinking that Yareally was one of them. But now i’m relieved.


      • YaReally
        on October 27, 2011 at 2:40 am
        Original Link

        No, I’m one of those. But leaving them better than you found them doesn’t mean you can’t approach it from a rational logical view, follow a specific set of steps and guidelines to ensure it, and have self-survival reasons for doing it on top of the feel-good reasons.

        My post still has the same end result of the guy not having to see her again, but that guy will have a dozen former hookups who hate him and write articles like this whereas you wouldn’t be able to find a single former hookup who hates me.



Tercules
on October 25, 2011 at 3:58 pm
Original Link

“I slept with an idea of a man. I slept with how that man made me feel. But that man didn’t exist, except in my mind. When I realized this, I felt……………………………………LIKE I SHOULD GO OUT THERE AND DO THIS AGAIN.”

p.s.- I would not have called a cab.


  • YaReally
    on October 25, 2011 at 8:58 pm
    Original Link

    I’d be curious to know if he actually paid for the cab. She says “He offered to pay for a cab to take me home afterwards” then “Afterwards, as promised, he called me a cab.”

    He didn’t promise to call her a cab, he promised to pay for it. I suspect she paid for it, since it sounds like he knew his shit. :)



Dunwannabebeta
on October 25, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Original Link

That man….is inspiring….just no words, they should have sent a poet!


  • Anonymous
    on October 25, 2011 at 7:49 pm
    Original Link

    Well, the scenario is pretty classic for anyone who partakes in game. I’ve read more fascinating field reports on PUA forums.

    The funny thing is her hamsterish drivel in front of the jizzebel fembot crowd.


    • YaReally
      on October 26, 2011 at 12:14 am
      Original Link

      Ya, the funniest part is that her and 99% of the Jezebel crowd would probably say “that game stuff would NEVER work on me!! I’d spot it a MILE away and shoot down ANY guy who showed up late or tried to move too fast or–” but you can see flat out all the little rationalizations and shit her hamster went through.

      For the PUA though, this was just another random “eh, this chick looks easy” routine internet one night stand. It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that the guy takes every chick he’s out with to the same bar, kisses them against the same wall, etc.



HLS
on October 25, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Original Link

Off topic question. Heading to Vegas with a group of guys. One of them is married, but wants to go out and have a good time, hit on the ladies. Which would be better for his luck: taking off the wedding ring for the trip, or leaving it on?

I told him to leave it on, as any girl that will be into quick action won’t care if he’s married — in fact, it will only increase his pre-selection “cred.” But I’d be interested to hear other opinions.


  • Firepower
    on October 25, 2011 at 9:17 pm
    Original Link

    Anyone who marries then cheats, is a fool who never should’ve gotten married in the first place. These are fools who do not know themselves.

    Anyone who hangs around and trusts such a person who’s willing to break a public vow – then expects to trust that same person – is a fool who does not know his friends.

    If you want to fuck around – stay single.


    • YaReally
      on October 27, 2011 at 2:49 am
      Original Link

      I actually agree with this even tho I’m a PUA and regularly hook up with married/engaged women so I should be all jaded about it.

      I have no problems with long term monogamy if that’s what works for the guy involved. But if the guy is off cheating, that’s a guy who doesn’t have the balls to break it off and wasn’t self-aware enough to know he wasn’t ready for commitment, and isn’t alpha enough or strong enough in his beliefs and views of the world to set things as an open relationship from the start.

      I actually have very little respect for guys who cheat. I think there’s nothing more beta and embarrassing than a guy who doesn’t understand himself and his beliefs and views. Sadly tho, society is full of these guys. They’re the same guys who have a mid-life crisis and buy a sports car because they didn’t have the balls, determination, or sense of drive to buy that car when they were younger.

      A real man knows himself, knows his boundaries, knows his own personal code of conduct, knows what he expects from other people, and knows what he expects from himself.



xsplat
on October 25, 2011 at 11:11 pm
Original Link

I seem to be the only guy in the world who has succesfully made girls with a long sexual history become head over heels in love/lust and a completely submissive and devoted love slave.

Granted, my idea of a long term relationship is a few years, with the option for more years as long as everything is still working out. But with that gypsy style definition of marriage – for as long as you are in love – bonding with a girl with a past has been proven to work for me.


  • Anonymous
    on October 26, 2011 at 1:01 pm
    Original Link

    Hey, no one said that sluts can’t fall in love. They can.
    They are just disgusting. Men have a genetically hardwired module to feel disgusted by female promiscuity. It is probably stronger in some more than others. But it’s an efficient evolutionary advantage to avoid investing valuable resources in a woman unworthy of trust, and more prone to cuckolding than average.

    Making a slut fall in love and even stay faithful is not an achievement. Any experienced womanizer can do it. It just doesn’t feel right… instinctively. Because thinking about sloppy hundreths, the gallons of cum she had to swallow… are striking blows to the masculine ego.
    Fembots will emphasize this part, and claim that it’s all about our ego, but 1-who cares about fembots and women in general and 2- It’s deeper than that, it’s genetic. The fact that it hurts our ego is just the tool of Mother evolution to warn us.


    • YaReally
      on October 27, 2011 at 2:58 am
      Original Link

      There’s no such thing as a slut.

      When you fully understand the depth/philosophy behind that statement to your core, you’ll understand why the innocent girl next door virgin is exactly the same as the pantyless drunk chick dancing on a bar speaker looking for a gangbang.

      The Madonna/Whore complex will only limit your potential as a man in the long run, with both “types” of girls.



Ex-Stripper Describes Her “Girl Game”

Original Link

via Heartiste

YaReally
on October 21, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Original Link

From experience, women who think they have “game” and are able to manipulate men and control the frame and “not be dominated” are the EASIEST women to lay lol My buddy and I show eachother txts and shit when girls try hitting us from the “I MAY allow you the privilege of taking me out, and my wallet does NOT exist, I know my mere presence is worth the cost of a steak dinner” frame and we just laugh and say “aw that’s cute.”

These ones will not just fuck the fastest (they’ll lead a beta through months of dating for sex, but if you pass all their shit-tests they’ll sleep with you the first night), but they usually want the most dominating/humiliating sex.

For men interested in an eye-opening look at “girl game”:

http://forum.stripperweb.com/forumdisplay.php?f=133

Yes, strippers have a forum where they discuss how to make the most money off men. They even discuss how to get a guy to keep coming back as a regular without having to put out, how to get him to go to the ATM repeatedly, how to handle cocky guys who try to run game on them, how to spot guys who won’t pay, etc.

And funnily enough, a LOT of their concepts line up dead on with PUA/Chateau concepts that us men use. :) It’s almost as if human psychology is universal and we’re not all beautiful and unique snowflakes, imagine that.

http://forum.stripperweb.com/showthread.php?t=164107 – Here’s their thread discussing this article haha



Revisiting AMOG Tactics

Original Link

via Heartiste

Matador
on October 18, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Original Link

The link on boyfriend destroyers is sociopathic stuff, just the way i like it.


  • King A
    on October 18, 2011 at 5:42 pm
    Original Link

    I don’t see the sociopathy. All I see is bad screenwriting and fantasy.

    The witty conversationalist gets the girl in the movies. Life is not a movie.

    Repartee is an important weapon in the arsenal, but posts like these overestimate its importance. They give off the impression that all you need to master a social dynamic is The Comedian’s Guide to Handling Hecklers.

    What ever happened to the deep PUA-community truth that recognizes women do not respond to conversational content so much as tone and demeanor?

    The old familiar truths are not dramatic or novel enough to constantly repeat in blog posts.


    • YaReally
      on October 19, 2011 at 10:33 pm
      Original Link

      “They give off the impression that all you need to master a social dynamic is The Comedian’s Guide to Handling Hecklers.

      What ever happened to the deep PUA-community truth that recognizes women do not respond to conversational content so much as tone and demeanor?”

      You don’t understand what’s going on. The “witty comebacks” and junk in his post aren’t for the girl’s benefit, they’re for the GUY. Guys are logical, we respond to content in situations like that, but girls are watching for the emotion and value battle taking place.

      So what happens is this:

      PUA: “Nice shirt bro!”
      AMOG: “…”
      GIRL: (no opinion)

      PUA: “I had one just like that in junior high it’s cool you still have yours lol”
      AMOG: “huh? but, no I just got this it’s new and–”
      GIRL: (AMOG is qualifying to PUA so PUA must be higher value)

      PUA: “no it’s cool man, it looks good on you, mine just emphasized how out of shape I am. Yours shows off your muscles like crazy, you’re like He-Man dude, that’s awesome, you must spend all your time at the gym!”
      AMOG: “what? um thanks? no I get out a lot, I’m not like those juice monkey–”
      GIRL: (AMOG still qualifying, PUA self-depreciating his own looks so he clearly has so much value he doesn’t care if he impresses us, etc.)

      The end result is that the girl is attracted and the AMOG is tooled. But she doesn’t care what you were saying. You could have said “purple monkey buttfuzz” as long as it gets the same qualifying reaction out of the AMOG.

      That’s why to get rid of guys at the bar you ask them logical boring questions, as guys we instinctively want to respond with logical answers and that bores the girls and the girls lose interest, then you spike their emotions/hamster and take them.
      :)


      • YaReally
        on October 19, 2011 at 10:38 pm
        Original Link

        P.S. Go out more. Try to take girls from guys. You’ll see it all play out in front of you the way his “imaginary conversations” play out. Not in the actual words, but in the jist of the emotional content and the way the value battle goes back and forth.

        It’s actually really exciting to see two good AMOGs go at it when you know what’s happening. The same way someone who studies chess in-depth sees a brilliant chess game playing out where others might just see “that game with the knights and pawns”.


      • King A
        on October 21, 2011 at 3:06 pm
        Original Link

        I find nothing to disagree with you about, except for the level of emphasis. Which is why the context of my quote was:

        “Repartee is an important weapon in the arsenal, but posts like these overestimate its importance. They give off the impression that all you need to master a social dynamic is The Comedian’s Guide to Handling Hecklers.”

        In fact, I’d say you’ve described the phenomenon very well. It comports with the higher-alpha tactic of enlisting the interloper as ally rather than unnecessarily creating (and thereafter neutralizing) a foe, which plays too much into the frame of the ballsy guy’s attack: he is essentially daring you, “See how audacious I am? I forced this insider to engage me on my level.”

        We differ as a matter of degree, not kind. The question becomes, however, what is the more practical advice for inexperienced conversationalists? I’m suggesting that game recruits adopt the highest level frame and constantly work toward making it second nature — man as master of all he surveys, neither over- nor under-reacting to threats, real or imagined, befriending those he can, neutralizing those he must. The confidence that comes with knowing “I can handle this guy” cannot be built on scripted witticisms. It has to be organically generated, and that is a side effect of proper frame. When choosing a point of emphasis, technique is important but frame is vital.

        But again, we’re rehashing old arguments over proper priorities.


        • YaReally
          on October 21, 2011 at 4:17 pm
          Original Link

          I prefer the question “What’s the highest form of mastery one can eventually achieve through hard work and training in this area?” not “What’s the bare minimum one can do to barely scrape by?”



A.B. Dada
on October 18, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Original Link

Dealing with AMOGs is vital if you’re in PUA mode, but if you’re not looking for a pump and dump, AMOGs can change from competitor to colleague for the better. One of my business partners is a previous AMOG who became a friend since I wasn’t looking to snatch his girl.

Game helps in way more than just picking up random sluts at bars — it helps with dealing with employers and co-workers, friends and family, and your wife and kids. Those are situations where you won’t face AMOGs typically, but being confident in yourself will allow others to admire you, even adore you, with no sexual goal in the needs department.


  • King A
    on October 18, 2011 at 3:58 pm
    Original Link

    Like A.B. says, confronting and neutralizing is good, but co-opting is better. Top-level mastery sublimates primitive pissing contests into true pack-leader assertion. You win the lesser conflict (which may be physical) by elevating it to a higher conflict (which is social).

    Neturalizing rather than co-opting competition is a common theme on this blog and elsewhere. Pick-up advice is too skewed in the direction of lone-wolf dynamics rather than pack dynamics. True alpha behavior does not just focus on gina tingles and the effects on women; it focuses on the overall social interplay, which includes other men. The alpha orders the chaotic community under his commanding presence.

    Deal with these conflicts by elevating them into an area of leadership in which they cannot compete. If you don’t know how to befriend a sloppy, hotheaded instinct-alpha sniffing around your pack, you are too vag-o-centric. A good example is the Swingers scene where Sue attempts resolving a challenge directly (with a gun), while the true alpha Trent co-opts the challengers (the technique is not shown, but the true-to-life results are).

    Mike: “What are they doing here?” ["They" being their former attackers now playing video hockey in their apartment]

    Sue: “Oh, no, no, it’s totally cool, man. We saw ‘em that night at Roscoe’s. Trent cleared it up. I apologized, bought ‘em some chicken and waffles. It’s totally fine. They fuckin’ love T, man. That boy can talk.”

    This obviously calls for a higher level of mastery, but it should be the end-goal for any alpha aspirant.

    The snarky cutesy sarcastic verbal-jousting suggested by Tyler Durden actually lowers you to the interloper’s level in a subtle way. Arm wrestling? The obvious joke doesn’t conceal your essential wussitude. It declares that you are about avoiding escalation and conflict, rather than addressing it squarely.


    • YaReally
      on October 19, 2011 at 10:47 pm
      Original Link

      Tyler’s tactics aren’t meant for handling your social circle of weak beta males and vague AMOGs to get the average cute girl that a couple quiet guys have a crush on and that you see every week when your group is hanging out at the bar together.

      Just be a cool chill guy for that, like you describe.

      His tactics are meant for walking into exclusive high-end nightclubs as a complete nobody and taking done up popular socially savvy super-confident chicks off of guys who buy them trips to Europe and invite them to after-parties at their mansions in Beverly Hills and are connected with half the city’s nightlife etc. These guys will try to tool you on your clothes, money, job, travel, etc.

      They’re also meant for taking the hottest girls in the club who are surrounded by meat-head jocks buying them drinks all night and scaring off their competition with headlocks and aggression. These guys will try to physically tool you.

      If you’re going for the lone 2 or 3 set that’s hanging out at the bar not really chit-chatting with anyone, awesome, you’ll get girls out of it with way less risk and there’ll be some decent ones in the batch.

      But if you haven’t run into actual AMOGs, then you haven’t left the bar at 2am with the hottest girl on your arm and tried to flag down a cab. :)


      • King A
        on October 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm
        Original Link

        YaReally wrote: “His tactics are meant for walking into exclusive high-end nightclubs as a complete nobody and taking done up popular socially savvy super-confident chicks off of guys who buy them trips to Europe and invite them to after-parties at their mansions in Beverly Hills and …” etc., etc.

        Right. His lessons are narrowly focused on a hyper-specific situation. I was speaking more broadly. Life is more than a parody of James Bond at the casino.

        Hey, you got me. What can I say? Pulling off a jewel heist is fun to think about and do and then exaggerate and brag about, but I won’t kid you: it’s not the focus of my life. If I spy an opportunity, I’ll take it with the skills I have; but I’m not seeking out a big game safari to impress internet blabberers with my collection of rhino heads. Those ashen-faced dudes at game workshops strike me as repulsively sorry creatures, completely unaware of the rigid limits that exist beyond their expensively purchased, contrived “frame.”

        I would think that most readers here are more interested in applicable advice, not just long-shot chances at the high-risk/high-reward holy grails of game. Or maybe they still dream about being an NFL walk-on, too. Each to his own.

        You’re falling into a bad rhetorical trap, though. The world that exists outside of your tinseltown imagination is not by definition a “social circle of weak beta males and vague AMOGs.” Part of the lazy critic’s M.O. is to imagine anyone who disagrees with him out to be the precise target for his counterpoint.

        What, say, Neil Strauss did (or what some Canadian Owen Cook does) is not rocket science. If that impresses you — or worse, if that’s what you assume must impress everyone interested in game — then you’ve consigned yourself to a very limited field of expertise against which I find it pointless to argue.


        • YaReally
          on October 21, 2011 at 4:40 pm
          Original Link

          “Part of the lazy critic’s M.O. is to imagine anyone who disagrees with him out to be the precise target for his counterpoint.”

          “but I’m not seeking out a big game safari to impress internet blabberers with my collection of rhino heads. Those ashen-faced dudes at game workshops strike me as repulsively sorry creatures”

          Are you reading what you write? lol

          “His lessons are narrowly focused on a hyper-specific situation.”

          It’s not hyper-specific if you don’t want it to be. That’s like saying a boxer trains for only a hyper-specific situation. But the boxer goes to gyms, signs up for fights, watches fights on TV, and overall trains a lot. It’s not a hyper-specific situation for him because he puts himself in that environment. You not wanting to get off the couch and put down the Doritos and hit a punching bag takes nothing away from his art.

          “but I’m not seeking out a big game safari to impress internet blabberers with my collection of rhino heads.”

          How about seeking out a big game safari to live up to your full potential as a man for yourself? How about striving to be the best version of yourself and crafting your life into something better than average normal people settle for? How about wanting to be the best you can be in all areas of life?

          You, King A, are a dabbler. Your comments and overall attitude scream it:

          All you do is piddle around in something to get enough experience to wax philosophical on it and argue with people about it, and then you bail. Yellow belt in Karate (train till you’re a blackbelt), “learning verbal game is too hard for new people” (go out and get embarrassed by fucking up some conversations and learning to take social pressure), “mastering pickup is too hyper-specific and sad” (seek out and hit on hotter girls), “it’s not plausible to be witty in stressful situations” (take an improv class and go out more), “that’s too many balls to juggle in the air at once” (train enough that you gain unconscious competance and you’re no longer juggling balls the way you’re no longer thinking “breathe in, now breathe out”).

          You are completely satisfied with being mediocre and avoiding any tough challenges while rationalizing that you’ve mastered “enough” of it to “get it”, and most of what you do seems to be done purely for the benefit of appearances and coming across like you’re well-versed and knowledgable in a variety of subjects.

          But just like I can tell from your posts that you have no game and don’t go out and regularly pick up girls, a Karate blackbelt would be able to tell you don’t really know how to fight if you were on a blog about fighting and arguing what happens during a fight.

          You are inexperienced with pickup and gorgeous women and it radiates, but the worst part is that overall you appear to have surrounded yourself in walls of limiting beliefs, rather than addressing challenges and taking them on.

          I hope that one day you try chipping away at some of those walls, because every man has a ton of potential in them but men with your attitude and beliefs are people who end up wasting that potential.

          You could be so much more than you’re settling for. :)


        • YaReally
          on October 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm
          Original Link

          P.S. I liked your Natural State of Women front-page comment/article. :)



John
on October 18, 2011 at 1:26 pm
Original Link

How do you deal with other people laughing at you from the AMOG’s direct or indirect insults? I take a unreactive frame and say cool man when the AMOG is directly insulting me. This works great when noone is laughing because the AMOG gets angry youre brushing him off like a fool, and if he keeps insulting you he looks like a tryhard.

I’ve noticed this doesnt work too well when other people laugh at the AMOG’s insults. It’s as if he is getting support and my social status is dropping anyway. No matter how correctly I handle his AMOG attempts if other people are laughing it appears to cancel it out.


  • YaReally
    on October 18, 2011 at 4:45 pm
    Original Link

    Agree with what they say and exaggerate it. You gotta’ be witty and take it to uncomfortable levels.

    “dude that shirt is gay lol”

    “what? no it’s not, I mean, I didn’t have another shirt” (defending yourself)

    “It’s cool man, I accept you and your love of sucking cocks.” (he’ll just keep going)

    or

    “dude that shirt is gay lol”

    “no, the handjob I gave that homeless guy in the alley was gay.” (agree, exaggerate)

    What’s he supposed to respond to that? Battle over. :)

    “Cool man” is good but it’s for when the rest of the group doesn’t find him super funny.


    • Student
      on October 18, 2011 at 10:40 pm
      Original Link

      “dude that shirt is gay lol”

      “maybe that’s why you are so drawn to it”

      then you backturn and carry on.


      • YaReally
        on October 19, 2011 at 10:51 pm
        Original Link

        The trick is that with your response, now you’re starting a back and forth fight. You’re “zinging” him but you’re also prolonging the fight. Now that you’ve insulted him he HAS to come up with an insult to insult you back to protect his pride, and if he’s dumb (which he probably is) he’s going to fall back on aggression and now you’ve just gotten your head punched in.

        With the response I wrote, it’s self-depreciating and takes the wind out of his sales. What can he respond? “ya see? I SAID you were gay!!!11″ You’ve neutralized the back and forth game by agreeing with him. You can even turn him into a friend if you get him laughing with your agreeing/exaggerating. That’s how you befriend angry guys and cool the situation down.



maurice
on October 18, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Original Link

I’m not so sure about these. I remember Tyler Durden came across as underhanded in “The Game” (but then again, he’s the stock-villain of the book). Even if the pen-portraits of him using these tactics in that book are an exaggeration, the tactics themselves do seem kinda weaselly, and would probably be perceived as such by any group observing them, including the females. Of course, a lot depends on context- what the AMOG is doing, how aggressive, whether actually interloping or just taking part in the conversation. But far better imho just to be a mensch- be friendly, acknowledge him, keep a strong frame rather than react in this sort of passive-aggressive way to whatever he is saying or doing. I think any chicks observing that kind of interaction would be more impressed than by the “hahaha, are you picking a fight with me?” kind of thing.


  • YaReally
    on October 18, 2011 at 4:54 pm
    Original Link

    Tyler Durden trained his shit in massive sausage fests of players and AMOGs fighting over girls at 2am outside the bars. Like, you’re pulling your girl by the hand and 5 alpha guys are trying to get her attention and pull her away and tool you and such while you’re trying to hail down a cab to get outta there. Your girl’s all worked up and horny and wants to get fucked by SOMEONE, and she’ll take those guys as much as she’ll take you, if you can’t tool them and get out of there.

    He used to purposely try to take girls from alpha player types at the club, just to see learn how the guys would tool him so he could use those tactics himself.

    Most guys going to the SWPL bars will never have to deal with that kind of aggressive AMOGging so most of it is overkill. It’s way better to just make friends and most of the guys at bars these days are so beta and lame that they’ll be dying to be your friend and buy you drinks and shit.

    Here’s a video of an oldschool PUA in a quick AMOG battle. He fries the girl’s circuits at the end and they run off, but watch the way the black guys try to use their voice and “hold court” and how the skinny little PUA guy just turns their words around or ignores them and, once he’s hooked the girls, just completely shuts them out.

    It all happens in the blink of an eye but it’s there if you know what to look for.


    • Student
      on October 18, 2011 at 11:04 pm
      Original Link

      ..and yet the girls walked away (which apparently in england means she “wants sex”). its not much of an AMOG victory when the vanquished is a broke-ass birdman who the girls werent into anyway.


      • YaReally
        on October 19, 2011 at 10:57 pm
        Original Link

        They walked away because their buying temperatures shot through the roof too high and too fast and he fried their circuits. If you spike a girl’s attraction hard and fast enough she’ll get to a point like these girls where they can’t even respond, it’s all just shrieks and giggles. The one girl pulls the other away because girls try to protect eachother from having sex with random guys and she can see her temp is through the roof. That’s why the PUA laughs at the end, he wasn’t expecting the Powerpuff Girls thing to blow them sky-high. Odds are those girls have some in-joke about the Powerpuff Girls for it to register that hard.

        It’s actually a bad thing because as you saw, the girls run off. That’s why we call it frying the circuits. You have to spike a bit and then slow down and let them come off the attraction high, pushing and pulling.

        Quit being a KJ and go out more. Use some basic game to spike girls attraction as fast as possible for a month and you’ll run into this concept in action once you get the hang of it.



Spank
on October 18, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Original Link

Any ideas for what to do when the AMOG forces a physical interaction?

Once I was on a first date, and some muscle-head twice my size decided to put me in a headlock at the bar for 5-10 seconds, even though we had barely exchanged any words at all. Afterward he chuckled it off like we were “just joking around” so I acted the same way, having no better ideas. My date must have seen it, but never mentioned it, so neither did I and the seduction moved forward.

But what could I have done? Any ideas what to do when a stronger man forces a physical exchange that don’t make you get your ass kicked or look like a pussy?


  • YaReally
    on October 18, 2011 at 4:57 pm
    Original Link

    Calm and chill, even if you’re still in the headlock: “woaaahh hey there big fella. Buy me dinner before you cop a feel like that! Gay bar’s up the street man!” and laugh it off. He’ll back off because you didn’t freak out (bullies pick on people who react in a bullied manner to them).

    It’s all about keeping your cool and being unreactive. The second you react angrily or show frustration he slaps you on the back and goes “I was just JOKIN’ man lol lighten up” and you’re tooled.



King A
on October 18, 2011 at 4:25 pm
Original Link

This post is low-alpha stuff. Fine as far as it goes, but it’s not thinking far enough outside the box. (Or circle. See below.)

Peace through strength. You prevent conflict by signaling a credible capacity for conflict. You don’t end war by dismantling your military. You do it by having a demonstrably bigger army than the other guy.

The advice above asks us to deploy clever diplomats rather than gun-boats. With regard to physical or even overt-verbal conflict, you have to be prepared for ultimate escalation. Not that it will occur often in a civilized milieu, but your unpreparedness will be written all over your body-language, and your unconscious motive will be to flee the test rather than pass it.

It’s like carrying a concealed gun. You won’t have to use it in 999 out of 1000 instances, but knowing you have access to it helps you endure with aplomb the fifty or so close-brushes that do occur.

I’m not recommending you pack heat (though all men should; metrosexualized alphas are soft in this regard). I’m recommending you acquire the skills and tools necessary so that you have a full panoply of options available when conflict occurs: you instinctively embrace and deal with it, rather than avoid or flee it. This is the goal of martial arts training, as any trainer will tell you — not to simply turn your body into a weapon so much as prepare your mind for recognizing the necessity of using (or eschewing the use of) the weapon.

Bruce Lee put it well, as reported in Zen and the Martial Arts by Joe Hyams:

“When your opponent is inside your circle and you cannot or will not retreat any farther, you must fight. But until then, you should always maintain your control and distance.”

As my [Hyams'] martial arts ability increased, so did my confidence. I was able to stand calmly back and let an opponent wear himself out with feints or attempts at intimidation because I was confident that, if necessary, I could defeat him.

I soon had an opportunity to translate this attitude to my business life….

http://tinyurl.com/3bmd8pt

Unless you have mastery “inside your circle,” you will be reactive to the contingent forces outside your circle. People, especially women, can detect your preparedness or lack thereof.


  • YaReally
    on October 18, 2011 at 7:27 pm
    Original Link

    Not everyone is going to take a martial arts course or wants to get into bar fights and end up paralyzed for life because their head bounced off a bar stool or charged with manslaughter because the other guy’s did, over some retarded macho shit in a bar.

    What you’re saying about being prepared being written in your body language and the other person picking up on it is true, but that actually gets into a bigger concept called “frame control”. The frame you’re advising is basically “This can go to a fight, and if it does, I’m going to win it.”

    But another frame that works is “There’s no fight happening, that’s not a THING that can occur in this situation.” Like, the complete 100% belief that there’s no possibility of a fight.

    John Cusack demonstrates this really well in Grosse Pointe Blank, where the bully wants to fight him and he just cuts right into the guy’s reality through the guy’s drunken rage haze with 100% certainty:

    Martin Q. Blank: “Do you *really* believe that there’s some stored up conflict that exists between us? There *is* no us. *We* don’t exist. So who do you wanna hit, man? It’s not me. Now whaddya wanna do here, man?”

    In the movie the guy is all worked up but ultimately his reality is weak so he crumbles and reads him a poem lol. It’s like how people panic when they get pulled over by the cops even if they know they haven’t done anything wrong, the cop has a stronger frame. Most guys can’t pull this off because they have weak-ass frames and they assume angry drunk guys have strong frames. But if your frame overpowers theirs, they fall into yours.

    This is how you treat dogs too, if you go in with the fear that something COULD happen, all they pick up on is that you’re worried something could happen so their emotions escalate because of your frame and before you know it something DOES happen. Whereas if you treat them with calm assertive energy Dog Whisperer style, they relax.

    If a guy gets in your face and you think there COULD be a fight, he picks up on that and now both of your frames involve “there’s a possibility of this leading to a fight” so there’ll probably be one. There’s a reason some guys get into fights at the bar every weekend everywhere they go while others can interact with drunk angry guys and calm the situation down safely.

    It’s the same way you talk to a girl with the frame of “we’re going to have sex” and her reality is so weak that “what you feel, she feels” so she falls into your frame and hers also becomes “we’re going to have sex”. This is just on a much scarier (in the moment) scale with higher stakes because it involves violence.

    Again, most guys trying this will get their asses kicked. Even if they learn the tactic, they don’t have the experience to keep their frame. Don’t go out and be a dickhead and try to take guys’ girls away, find your own and make friends with guys. It’s way more productive and positive. But this stuff does work.


    • angryredbirds
      on October 19, 2011 at 11:43 am
      Original Link

      Having a frame that “100% a fight is not going to happen.” seems foolish and dangerous to me.


      • YaReally
        on October 19, 2011 at 11:00 pm
        Original Link

        So if you were mad at Mother Teresa or Ghandi, you could take the first swing? Even knowing that everyone else in the entire WORLD will think you’re a piece of shit for it and they’re doing nothing to provoke you at all except be friendly?

        You couldn’t punch them and they instinctively know it. Frame control.



YaReally
on October 18, 2011 at 4:27 pm
Original Link

If you’re small and scared of fighting, go the sneaky route: Turn the girls against the guy. At the end of the day you might not have a stronger frame than the AMOG, but you sure as shit have a stronger frame than a group of giggly girls.

Go to the girl’s friend, get her laughing and in a good state, then just say “Hey I really like your friend over there, we were having a really cool conversation, but that creepy guy keeps interrupting us and groping her. :( ” and the girls will run over and cockblock the guy for you and he’ll have no idea you had any part in it. You’re framing him as creepy, the friend wants her friend to hook up with you because you made her laugh so you’re higher value to her, etc. No risk of violence with this method because to the AMOG he just thinks he got cockblocked by her lame girlfriends.

Or directly to the girl I’ll say “I don’t think your boyfriend there likes me.” “My boyfriend?” “The guy that keeps groping you and glaring at me.” “Oh no he’s not my boyfriend!! We just met him!” “Oh, whew, good, ’cause he’s creepy as fuck, let’s get out of here.” No risk of violence because to the AMOG she just vanished or wandered off, he has no idea you did anything.

If you’ve built enough value, you can actually just give her a “well, I see you’ve made your choice, good luck with that!” shrug and backturn and either open some other girls or just chat with your friends. You’re forcing her to decide between the two of you. Without the backturn she’ll entertain the guy all night out of politeness figuring you’ll stick around, but as soon as you introduce the fear of loss, she goes “OMG noo come back I don’t like him at all he’s been following us all night!!!” No risk of violence because you’re not doing anything, you’re actively GIVING the girl to the guy, but she’s choosing you, the guy will get mad at the girl at worst, but not you.

AMOGs can’t do anything if the girl and her friends choose you in front of him. Like, there’s no more contest to fight about or compete over, all the guy can do is just make himself look worse and worse so he’s forced to back off or throw terrible hail-mary attempts that just play into the “that guy’s creepy” frame.



YaReally
on October 18, 2011 at 4:38 pm
Original Link

“The big bruiser with the hair trigger impulse control. This guy will take anything you say as an insult, and he has the size and sloping forehead to put a serious hurt on.”

Walk away. Let him have the girl. There’s another girl who looks just like her up the street. Not worth getting your head punched in by a psycho. Don’t you have 10 playboy models on call at any time? Or are you so desperate that you have to risk personal harm to get this one specific girl?

“The drunk. Alcohol releases all inhibitions, including those locked up in the fists. At least with the drunk you can easily avoid his wild swings.”

Drunks don’t fight unless you’re directly an asshole to them and they can justify it. At best they try to manhandle you a bit with an aggressive arm around the shoulders or whatever. Pussy > Fighting, as long as he thinks he has a chance with the chicks, beating you up is second priority, not first (unless you’re an asshole to him). Just humor him a bit with a smile on your face. Hell, introduce him to the girl and say “I’ll let you two talk. ;) ” with a wink to your girl. A drunk guy isn’t going to have any game, especially if the girl’s already into you and he’s trying to take her from you. Leaving her with him just lets him blow himself out with his beer breath and sloppy akward groping. Then go rescue her a few minutes later either by sending her girlfriends in or just saying “Hey man, you’re cool but this is actually my girlfriend and we have to get going now.” She’ll play along because she wants to be rescued.

“The egotistic player-savant. The guy who is smart enough to know when he is being played, and smarter still to turn the tables on you. Beware this guy, for although he is a rare breed, he can tool you in front of a girl.”

These situs are funny because the battle sounds retarded. “That’s a cool shirt man.” “Not as cool as your hair bro!” “Well I gotta make up for my tiny penis somehow!” “Talkin about penises with another dude in a bar, did I walk into a gay bar by accident? I thought it was up the street.” “Don’t play innocent, I’ve seen you wandering back and forth outside it at 2am.” “Well your mom was taking forever to get her coat from coat check.” etc. etc.

These are actually the guys that you end up being friends with haha You both recognize eachother’s game and decide fuck it, let’s pick up girls together.

AMOG battles are actually a lot like handling a girl who really shit-tests you hard. Agree and exaggerate, keep a rock solid frame, ignore anything that doesn’t help your goal, etc.



Anonymous
on October 18, 2011 at 5:43 pm
Original Link

This is one of the few times I dissagree with this blog. These responses are terrible. The only way you are getting away with any of these is if the AMOG is mentally handicapped. All of these basically tell you to make “inside” jokes with some group of whores that you herd around every night, while assuming the AMOG is too dumb to pick up on them, or too much of a sissy to knock the shit out of you. Both seem unlikely if the guy already has the balls to walk up and push you around, mentally or physically. Way to handle these guys is simple: treat them as if they pose no threat to you.


  • YaReally
    on October 18, 2011 at 7:00 pm
    Original Link

    Go out more instead of KJ’ing.



Ripp
on October 19, 2011 at 9:05 am
Original Link

Straight up: If you’re not getting AMOGed when you’re out at a busy venue with your date, she’s not that hot. Or the set you’re talking to isn’t that hot.

The best methodology I’ve ever come across regarding AMOG is credit to Asian Playboy:

-Befriend
-Ignore
-Tool

(In that order of priority).

BEFRIEND
I’d say the high majority of AMOGing can be accomplished by befriending (~80%), why? = most men are beta. Before I started studying game I use to call it “out nice-ing” the guy. This was during my college years and getiing AMOGed happened all the time. Simply I would befriend or “out nice” the threat by making friends. He’d end up liking me because I’d dominate the conversation and frame and get to know him, then be cool and say “cool to meet you man” then roll off with my chic. It’s very easy to make guy friends. If you can’t do this, you have much work to do before gaming hot women.

IGNORE
As it states. The AMOG doesn’t exist. Don’t look at him, don’t acknowledge him, at all. If logistics favor then turn your back to him so you are still facing the target. Don’t mention him to the target. Hold your frame with the target. If/when AMOG tries to interupt, slighty amplify your voice and hold frame, keep the target’s attention on you and your conversation. If you’re doing this right, the AMOG will blow himself out by akwardness.

TOOL
The last resort. Rarely have had the need to do this. But have, and it can be risky. But also it can be fucking hilarious. Mystery’s guy Matador has a good video of some tool moves on You Tube. I don’t feel like digging it up now, but it’s worth a search if you want to see some smooth AMOG gambits. Essentially you make fun of the AMOG so as long as it doesn’t hurt your game with the target and fleshes out the betaness of the threat (makes him flustered, frustrated, irritated, annoyed).

I’ll provide some recent stories in another post.


  • YaReally
    on October 19, 2011 at 11:16 pm
    Original Link

    “Straight up: If you’re not getting AMOGed when you’re out at a busy venue with your date, she’s not that hot. Or the set you’re talking to isn’t that hot.”

    Quoted for fucking truth lol There are a lot of “players” out there getting laid left and right by average to decent chicks at the bar, or picking up gorgeous chicks outside of the bar environment by doing day game or social circle game and not taking those girls all dolled up out to busy party venues.

    And that’s cool, good on ‘em for getting laid. But they’re not playing the same game some of us are. :)

    Nice to see someone else on here who actually goes out instead of argues KJ-theory.



Random reader
on October 19, 2011 at 11:27 am
Original Link

Luckily, most men — most people — are mediocre intellects and don’t have the mental acuity to think fast on their feet.

True, but it’s very possible to be smart as hell AND fumble with words when it comes time to deliver snappy repartee.

It’s also possible to be able to deliver hyperspeed conversation retorts without being a genius (although some brains are required, of course).

Question: what is a good way to develop the ability to think on one’s feet? Improv?


  • YaReally
    on October 19, 2011 at 11:17 pm
    Original Link

    Ya. Take an Improv class. It’ll do wonders for teaching you to think on your feet and not get flustered.



The Benefit Of Losing Your Cool (Sometimes)

Original Link

via Heartiste

YaReally
on October 18, 2011 at 5:38 am
Original Link

Tyler Durden (dude from The Game) would start a fight and dump his girlfriends when he had to travel for long periods of time so that their hamster would be so busy freaking out and obsessing over him and their relationship and how to get him back that they wouldn’t fuck other guys. :)



The Business Of Game

Original Link

via Heartiste

The Shocker
on October 13, 2011 at 2:23 pm
Original Link

Last weekend a rich-princess type was at my house for a party. As a fitness test, she asked me when I last got laid. It doesn’t matter what I said (“my pipes are good” or something)- she was looking for ‘one of those guys’ that gets fucked all the time.

Later that night in front of a club, another flooz with a vastly over-inflated sense of SMV would interrupt our conversation to state how badly she wanted to fuck the bouncer. Who she had never talked to.

Folks, good luck trying to find a woman who likes you for your vibe. It is abundantly clear hot American girls have embraced their basic states- they are going to fuck the quarterback.

The game community has vastly underestimated just how committed women are to fucking the guy at the very tippy top. Women aren’t just looking for “an alpha” guy. They are designed to disregard not just you and your friends at a bar, not just most of the football team, but literally every swinging dick except the guy holding the football, getting the attention, star of the show.

Heartiste has discovered very specific things that women look for and as time goes on he is proved right again and again. Bitches want Pantone 12-0752. Anything else, pick up lines, day game, etc., is Bush league.

For those of you who like to pontificate about the awesome alpha things you do, and I don’t care why you do it, YOU’RE NOT GETTING AS MUCH GRADE A TAIL AS YOU WANT TO BE and you fucking know it. And this is A-OK. You are forgiven. Fresh Start.

Either commit to being great and figure out how to get there, or shut the fuck up. Your mediocre, above-average wins might make you more successful than 90% of the male population, but the 90th percentile isn’t waking up next to these girls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paFUHjR8lxY

Game hobbyists have barely scratched the surface. So far game has described how to project normalcy with a touch of superiority. We need to be projecting supremacy. We know some of the signals chicks look for. We really have no idea how to respond.


  • YaReally
    on October 13, 2011 at 5:23 pm
    Original Link

    “When did you last get laid?”

    “Last night. But he gave shitty head.” (yes, “he”)

    Bouncers have situational confidence/value. They’re low on society’s status pole but king of the hill in the club. Does a girl’s brain realize “I’m in a shit-hole bar?” No lol Her brain just sees “other men supplicate to him, other girls want to fuck him, and his frame dominates everyone else’s”, so she’s attracted. These are the same traits game teaches you to demonstrate.

    If you think she has to talk to the bouncer to be attracted, or that she likes the quarterback because of his sports skill or muscles, or that when a celebrity walks into the club all the girls snub every other guy because the celebrity is rich or a good actor or handsome, you’re still looking at surface-level shit and you don’t understand how the bouncer, quarterback and celebrity are demonstrating attractive traits or how their jobs/fame influence their display of those traits.

    PUAs have already broken down how to directly compete with, tool, and take girls from these guys. We call it AMOG tactics:

    http://www.rsdnation.com/node/60063

    And if they’re dating, there’s boyfriend destroyers for sabotaging their relationship:

    http://www.rsdnation.com/node/61702

    The Chateau’s version of game is very toned down and socially friendly, which is ultimately a healthier outlook than seeing other guys as competition, but understanding the above two oldschool PUA posts allows you to take girls from the metaphorical quarterback.

    But most guys don’t have a strong enough frame or enough balls to successfully use this stuff, which is good because most of them would get their asses kicked trying it lol



The Pill And Female Mate Preference

Original Link

via Heartiste

YaReally
on October 11, 2011 at 6:15 pm
Original Link

Unfortunately the whole discussion and any analysis of data centers around whether or not the girls are ACTUALLY taking the pills responsibly (VS just saying they are or actually BELIEVING they are even though they’re not (“oh I missed a few days but that doesn’t matter”).

The amount of women out there “on the pill” who miss a few days here and there is scary. Especially when you get into the 25+ year olds who have the baby timer going. Any guy trusting a random chick to actually be “on the pill” when she says she’s “on the pill” in the heat of the moment, and who DOESN’T want a baby with that chick, is playing a seriously retarded game of Russian Roulette.



A Test Of Your Game: The Group Approach

Original Link

via Heartiste

Jake
on October 11, 2011 at 2:09 pm
Original Link

Good theories.

The problem with all of these things is the over-focus on ‘gaming’. Why not be the guy whose mere existence is such a force that it can not be ignored? Whose potential contribution to the girl’s life are so earth shakingly awesome that all this other talk is just that … talk?

I decided to divulge some of the real meaning of chick crack, lucky ya’lls. Feast your brains:

http://two.cedonulli.com/2011/10/real-chick-crack/


  • A.B. Dada
    on October 11, 2011 at 2:31 pm
    Original Link

    You have a reasonable point here. I own a hard production shop in Chicago that owns a lot of baffling equipment — laser engravers, embroidery machines, silk screen presses, etc. My guys are constantly making ridiculous clothing and accessories, and I’ll wear the stuff on occasion to promote the business.

    I’ve had quite a few women in the past month or so initiating conversation randomly to admire my AK-47 wooden necklace or my laser etched jeans or a crazy t-shirt design my designers whipped together in-house for promotional purposes.

    Still, there’s no need to go all crazy like Mystery and his jackass hats and eyeliner. I can’t stand that ridiculousness. I’m a man, love me for that reason, not for my makeup and fuzzy scarf.


    • Jake
      on October 11, 2011 at 3:22 pm
      Original Link

      Also, Mystery is a JOKE. Don’t take my word for it, see this YouTube video of his performance. It’s painful, and yet oh so funny:

      http://two.cedonulli.com/2011/10/mystery-aka-uber-dork/


      • YaReally
        on October 11, 2011 at 5:07 pm
        Original Link

        I think you got the link wrong:

        Ya, the guy is totally a joke. Hey where’s YOUR video where you’re making out with a bunch of girls at?

        I actually agree with your point about over-gaming. I just think you shouldn’t be trying to promote yourself by talking shit about a guy who’s done more for progressing the art of seduction for men in general than the rest of us combined.


        • YaReally
          on October 11, 2011 at 6:07 pm
          Original Link

          Actually nvm my last paragraph there. I hadn’t read your link yet and didn’t realize your version of game was a complete lifestyle overhaul and massive time and money investment based ENTIRELY on supplicating to change your life into what you think girls will like by taking up dress making and trinket wearing and then trying to bribe girls into the sack with promises of free stuff, instead of simply embracing the Excel spreadsheet brick-laying guy you are and building attraction through solid social skills, charisma, and knowledge of what makes ginas tingle.

          You’re the same as the guy who thinks his Ferrari and expensive watch are the secrets to getting girls, except you’ve shrouded your nonsense in “being a creative force” to make it sound deeper. I’m sure you probably get laid, but it’s sure not an efficient or cheap route to it.



Anonymous
on October 11, 2011 at 2:37 pm
Original Link

While looking like you’re writing a text, ask the group if anyone speaks Spanish (or another language one of them is likely to speak and you’re not likely to know as well).

The hottest woman will assume that someone other than she has your thoughts (the person you’re writing to mainly and the volunteer translator secondarily). It’s an open ended question as well, but be prepared to have an amusing sentence to translate, or a mysterious one, or one that confers status without it being obvious what you’re doing. Or all three.

Often you’ll get the translation and sit back down at your spot while they go about their conversation. That’s OK. You’re now an old friend to them or at least a known quantity. Your status is higher as a result. You can reopen with a different sentence to translate or open with something else. You’ve got good guy cred at that point.

Cell phones are now one of the best props ever.

[Heartiste: This is a great disqualification/DHV opener. A+]


  • Wolverine Jesus (@WolverineJesus)
    on October 11, 2011 at 6:24 pm
    Original Link

    Start with: Do you know how to say “Where are you?” in xyz language?

    Then go with: How do I say, “what are you wearing?”


    • YaReally
      on October 11, 2011 at 7:01 pm
      Original Link

      WIN.



Scar
on October 11, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Original Link

Body language and style are both subconscious for the most part, it seems like if you’re lacking in those, it’ an ‘overall game’ issue. You can tell someone ‘what to do with their hands’ in a social situation, but unless it’s awkward it’s still going to look awkward.

An FTC sounds like it would work great in theory, but then you actually have to make a quick escalation. The last thing you want is a girl saying “Didn’t you have to get back to your friends?”.

I hate to duck out, but I’d much rather avoid picking up a girl in a group setting. When she’s alone – master that first.


  • YaReally
    on October 11, 2011 at 5:50 pm
    Original Link

    “An FTC sounds like it would work great in theory, but then you actually have to make a quick escalation. The last thing you want is a girl saying “Didn’t you have to get back to your friends?”.”

    No offense or anything, but don’t keyboard jockey, go out and actually TRY it for a couple months before you rule it out with KJ theory. There’s a reason the FTC has been stressed since the Neil Strauss days.

    When you DO go out and try it, you’ll find that if you’re cool, you don’t get an actual “don’t you have to get back to your friends?” comment because they don’t WANT to remind you you have to leave. If a smokin’ hot supermodel came up to you and said she had to get back to her friends but wanted to give you a BJ and she’s in the middle of unzipping your pants would you go “uhh, excuse me miss, didn’t you say you had to get back to your friends?”

    If the girl ISN’T interested or if you’re creeping the group out, she might bring it up. That’s when you socialize with other people and gain some social proof and then come back later when you have more value (Short Set Method).

    If a cockblock brings it up but you’re past the hook point with your target you just brush it off with a “eh, they’re fine, you girls are fun.” and keep going.



YaReally
on October 11, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Original Link

Use “Short Set Method”. It’s for both the “low-key bar full of regulars” and the “too loud to have a long conversation” situations:

- Make a funny/playful off-hand comment, tease, cold-read, etc.

- Bail and be social with other people

- Re-open later

Regulars aren’t used to people sitting down and taking over their group for the night and you should be socially competent enough to understand their perspective. When you say something funny/playful off-hand and bail they get curious about who you are and discuss with their group “what was that?? lol” and will notice you chatting up other groups and all the social proofy stuff you’re doing (because you’re doing social proofy stuff to DHV yourself, right? Waitresses are flirting and hugging you? Bartenders are shaking your hand? You’re making random groups of people smile and laugh?).

If they’re curious and confident, they’ll re-open you later. If they’re curious but shy, they’ll give you a chance to re-open them by standing near you later in the night. If they’re curious but shy and lazy, they’ll just be more receptive when you come back later. Even if a girl is completely rude to you, when she sees that everyone else likes you, often her attitude will 180 completely because now her hamster is going “Shit, everyone else likes this guy, who IS he?? Did I just tell a movie star to fuck off?? Those girls like him, what do they know that I don’t know?? Oh no I hope I didn’t mess up my chance…”

This method is a lot more work than just sitting down and zeroing in on her magically plowing through every obstacle like a super-ninja which it sounds like is the solution the guy in the article is hoping for…but this method is what actually CONSISTENTLY works, and consistency is the goal. If the girl loves you right off the bat by fluke, you can just sit down with her group but that’s just crossing your fingers and playing the numbers game and hoping you’re handed an opportunity on a silver platter.

Create your OWN opportunities with some strategic game.



Niceguys Lose… Again

Original Link

via Heartiste

YaReally
on October 4, 2011 at 6:16 pm
Original Link

It’s extremely easy to go from fuckbuddies to an LTR. You just see her more than once a week.

It’s extremely difficult if not impossible to go from the asexual friend zone to a sexual relationship.

Science is yet again backing up everything PUAs and now the Chateau have been decoding for years.

How do women justify the “date a beta but fuck an alpha” to their conscience? It’s not because they’re “evil” (wtf people, some of you creep me out). It’s because when a man has demonstrated that he’s 100% not a provider in any way, then fucking him simply doesn’t count in their mind. He’s a member of the “Secret Society”:

http://www.bristollair.com/2008/inner-game/nature-reality/secret-society/

Women want beta providers, not beta offspring. So for a woman it makes sense to lock down a beta provider that won’t leave her, but then fuck the alpha one night stand to get pregnant (and then have her hamster backwards rationalize it as “not counting”). She gets a baby with alpha genes and a secure future for it and the alpha gets the commitment-free fling he wanted, everyone wins.

…well, except the beta provider guy, but it’s not like he’ll complain or call her out on it if he suspects it, or not forgive her if he figures it out, or not begrudgingly provide for her anyways because his female friends and family guilt him into it, cause he knows he can’t get any other girls and his highest purpose in life is just to please everyone else.

I’d love for there to be some of these scientific studies on how many men are unknowingly raising other men’s children. I suspect the actual truthful numbers would be terrifying an disgusting to most people.


  • DiamondEyes
    on October 4, 2011 at 7:36 pm
    Original Link

    You really think it’s not evil to cheat on a guy who loves you, find out you’re pregnant and decide to keep it, cuckold your husband, trick him into investing love and resources into your whore-spawn, and then get him on the hook for child support if he ever does find out and wants to leave?

    Man, if that isn’t evil, I don’t know what is. She is destroying the guy’s chance at happiness for his crime of believing in the Golden Rule.


    • YaReally
      on October 4, 2011 at 11:56 pm
      Original Link

      Most of the time girls in these situations are just running on instinct, not planning these things out and executing them with malicious intent. Their hamster backwards rationalizes what happened so convincingly that they actually don’t believe they’ve done anything wrong, and society is currently in a state where she’ll have other women and beta males backing her decisions so she still feels like a special flower.

      A dog isn’t evil because it poops on your couch, it just doesn’t know better.

      Every man who gets a chick pregnant should be getting a test immediately before signing any papers that’ll lock them into 18 years of child support…but the woman, doctors, and society in general, will guilt trip him into not getting it done and the beta will cave. All these people think they’re doing the right thing telling the guy not to spray his couch with stain-guard because they don’t understand that dogs poop on couches.


      • DiamondEyes
        on October 5, 2011 at 12:00 pm
        Original Link

        Plenty of murderers, rapists, robbers backward rationalize as well. How many times have we heard it? “I did that home invasion robbery and beat the elderly woman to death to get her jewelry because I had to feed my baby daughter!”.

        But we don’t let them off the hook for their decisions do we? No because they are men. So are you a white knighter, or just trying to prove the point that women are brainless and irresponsible?

        Also, it deserves mention that this theoretical cuckolding whore is also deliberately deceiving her own child about who his father is, taking the evil to a whole ‘nother level.


        • YaReally
          on October 5, 2011 at 1:58 pm
          Original Link

          “So are you a white knighter, or just trying to prove the point that women are brainless and irresponsible?”

          The latter, I thought that was pretty clear with the whole dog pooping analogy but I guess that deeply intricate philosophical metaphor WAS pretty hard to understand.


  • Samson
    on October 4, 2011 at 11:23 pm
    Original Link

    I researched the stats on cuckoldry on google last year. There were several reliable studies, both contemporary n based on genetic analysis for the past several hundred years. Most of them pointed to the same number: 1 in 6 babies has a father other than the woman’s husband. No cites handy, but hopefully this won’t be too difficult to verify.


    • YaReally
      on October 5, 2011 at 2:04 pm
      Original Link

      Awesome. Thanks for the stats. Doesn’t surprise me at all. The funniest and saddest part is most of the guys reading those stats will go “lol too bad for those suckers! I know I’M in the 5/6 because my girl is a special flower!”


  • rickb223
    on October 5, 2011 at 11:10 am
    Original Link

    “How do women justify the “date a beta but fuck an alpha” to their conscience? It’s not because they’re “evil” (wtf people, some of you creep me out)”

    Why do they creep you out? We’ve been called evil, playa, and a volume full of bullshit for the exact same thing.

    “Women want beta providers, not beta offspring. So for a woman it makes sense to lock down a beta provider that won’t leave her, but then fuck the alpha one night stand to get pregnant (and then have her hamster backwards rationalize it as “not counting”). She gets a baby with alpha genes and a secure future for it and the alpha gets the commitment-free fling he wanted, everyone wins.
    …well, except the beta provider guy”

    “So for a woman it makes sense to lock down a beta provider that won’t leave her, but then fuck the alpha one night stand to get pregnant”

    And you DON’T call that evil?


    • YaReally
      on October 5, 2011 at 2:11 pm
      Original Link

      Human nature, survival instinct, etc. Lots of them have no idea their brains are wired to do this. They’ll be fully in love with a beta consciously and subconsciously seek an alpha the way I described but their conscious minds will dress everything up in a way that doesn’t seem like what they’re doing is wrong. Thus the “it doesn’t count” and “it just happened” logic.



whiskey
on October 4, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Original Link

I think folks are forgetting a few things here. If Beta Males were so mal-adaptive, how come they are about 90% of all men? The answer is that until recently they were QUITE adaptive, particularly in Western Europe, with a population explosion. An Alpha Male (socially dominant, lots of women around) tended to attract the violent attention of other men, and end up dead. So too, his women, descendants, and so on. He was a bad bet, generally speaking, in evolutionary terms. Because the “NPV” of descendants was mostly negative. Examples would be Caesar, or King John, or Robspierre. Guys who hog all the resources, tick other men off greatly, create permanent enemies who absent massive social control (not really possible even now in Western Europe) get revenge … by killing said Alpha and any/all descendants.

Right now Alphas live in a fragile equilibrium. A temporary, Beta-male induced cessation of violence. Now, all those Beta Males may turn gay or immerse themselves into WoW or massive porn collections (not likely) or they’ll just go thug+plus, see the Zetas in Mexico. Want to be a Muy Macho Alpha? Then be prepared to have your head left in a public place, along with all your family, if you lose a power-struggle. That’s life for Alphas (and associates) in Mexico’s Cartel Wars. That, ultimately, is the destiny for everyone, a kill/be-killed constant war where society resembles nothing more than an avalanche of knives. That itself can perpetuate itself for a long time (West Africa, the Ghetto/Barrio) or result in social structures designed to stratify society and pacify the male losers by restricting women’s access to Alphas (Christian Feudalism, in other words, with enforced monogamy).

By reducing male friction, a society becomes more efficient, has massively greater resources, and is able to mobilize millions of men in unison against enemies vs. a few uncaring mercenaries / high-caste warriors. Slaves don’t fight hard for the Sultan’s harem. Of course the men are unsexy, but reproductive success is far greater for most women (the Beta Male advantage). Women are just playing a short-term game for advantage, which is likely to close down radically soon. What good is a sexy man when you (and your entire family) run the risk of being dead very soon?


  • YaReally
    on October 5, 2011 at 12:20 am
    Original Link

    “If Beta Males were so mal-adaptive, how come they are about 90% of all men?”

    Because if you take an alpha child and fill its life with beta male role models (a beta father raising it, beta male friends raised by other beta male fathers, beta male role models on TV and in film, etc.) and female role models (single mothers, sisters, female friends giving advice on how to woo girls, etc.), you get a beta male. It’s a big self-perpetuating cycle society has driven itself into.

    But the alpha potential in that child is still in there, it’s just layered under a ton of social conditioning. A beta male doesn’t necessarily not have an opinion, he just doesn’t share it with a group or defend it when confronted because he was taught not to risk offending anyone’s feelings. A beta male doesn’t necessarily not think girls do stupid shit sometimes, he just doesn’t call them out on it or tease them about it because he was taught that gentlemen don’t treat girls that way.

    That’s why game and the Chateau has such an impact on certain guys who are actually alpha in their core, but were socially conditioned to think and behave like betas. Once the concepts and experience with them remove those socially conditioned blockages, the alpha male that was underneath it all is finally free.

    A pretty common theme in “hidden alphas” who’ve been conditioned to be betas is that when they were little kids they were outgoing and yapping to everyone and leading their little group of friends and teasing girls and playing with everyone in kindergarten and talking to strangers etc. but looking at them as adults they appear to be complete betas. Those are the types that had all that alpha behavior snuffed out by social conditioning as they grew up, and those are the types that get the craziest results when they discover game. For them, game “clicks” and makes sense quickly because it matches up with what they experienced as children and eventually that same outgoing social personality they had as a child is essentially “returned to it’s rightful throne”.

    There are betas who are beta to the core and were quiet shy children. These ones generally have no choice but to “fake it till they make it” and consciously attempt to mimic the behaviors of a “bad boy” until way down the road it becomes natural to them (the “hidden alphas” can take that route too, but they have other paths they can take to get to the same end goal that the full betas would have much more difficulty with).


  • tzz
    on October 5, 2011 at 3:06 am
    Original Link

    @whiskey:
    You are right.
    Indeed, the Alphas are takers and the Betas are givers. A world full of takers collapses.


    • Desiderius
      on October 5, 2011 at 6:01 pm
      Original Link

      YaReally,

      That’s me (hidden alpha) exactly. I was the one all the girls chased on the playground, then slid so far that I was getting shot down with maximum harshness by 5′s five years ago. After discovering Roissy, etc… the change is unreal.

      Last week had a 9.5 squeal when I entered a room like I was John fucking Lennon. Two very viable LTR-prospects (my main interest these days) blushed noticeably. The social proof is like a runaway freight train.


      • YaReally
        on October 5, 2011 at 11:55 pm
        Original Link

        A lot of people rag on PUA stuff as putting on a fake personality and “eventually the ruse won’t last and she’ll see the REAL you and THEN WHAT huh?? THEN WHAT!!!” But what those people don’t understand is that the overall purpose of learning game is following a path to eventually unlocking the personality that was already inside you and just being repressed.

        When you learn to be confident in yourself and proud of your hobbies/interests, not apologize for your desires as a man, go for what you want, assert your opinions, make decisions for yourself, etc. you are actually more “yourself” than you were when you were taking girls on expensive dates pretending not to want sex from them, holding back your opinion when they said stupid stuff, taking up hobbies you knew she was into hoping she’d like you, etc.

        Props for turning your life around, most people will never have the balls to do the same. :)



Rollo Tomassi
on October 5, 2011 at 9:58 am
Original Link

Given the connectivity of the internet and the breadth of these social experiments, I think it’s a fairly well established principle now that decisive, self-interested, confident (bordering on irrationality) Bad Boyishness is a prime requisite in women’s breeding choices – in both the long and short term. As a woman’s capacity to attract that degree of Man diminishes, so too does her list of options begin to be reduced to beta Nice Guys with some Alpha tendencies, until all she’s left with is the “he’ll haffta do” guy.

Understanding this principle, a man is left with another question; why the grand ruse? Why is it that women, would consistently, publicly, perpetuate the notion that what they’re really interested in is ‘nice’ men? Men who treat them well, men who are sensitive to their concerns, men who will in no uncertain terms support and help empower her? Why? Why should women take this ruse to the point that it’s socially and personally internalized when it’s in such an amazing contradiction to their actualized interests?

Because it is a meta-shit test for the self-aware man. This social convention is a socio-evolutionary fail-safe mechanism meant to filter women’s selection process of less desirable men from more desirable (competition worthy) men. Women want a man who gets it on his own. Despite virtually every woman he’s ever known telling him to be the archetypical Nice Guy, he’s self-interested enough, and experienced enough to understand the dynamic appeal of the Bad Boy.

That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.

Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.

[Heartiste: And this pretty much cuts to the quick. At the root of it, the massive, subconscious, female-wide niceguy-badboy shit test is a test of a man's experience with women, and, thus, his preselection by women. A man with lots of pussy experience knows that women don't really want niceguys, and he acts accordingly, passing this universal shit test with ease. Since women are attracted to men whom other women love, an experienced man is an attractive man.]


  • YaReally
    on October 5, 2011 at 2:24 pm
    Original Link

    Good summary. That’s why alpha guys laugh when girls tell them they’re jerks and why those women then become attracted. Again this is why pickup and the Chateau are important, because nowhere else do men who have no game hear “hey you know that thing everyone is telling you? Guess what, it’s bullshit lol”