via Rational Male
I don’t know/care about the fight going on so I’m just going to rant about the rating scale in general lol this isn’t aimed at anyone specific, I just skimmed the jist of the posts and have time to type some shit up right now about rating systems in general:
“uhhh if dudes are giving the attention associated with a 7 to her, then she’s a 7. you don’t get to be like NAH BRO SHE’S REAAAAAALY A 6.
Nah, if the market is moving her way, then the market has spoken. Sorry.
Now maybe the 2016 market is FUCKED UP or YOU WISH it were different to better comport with your PERSONAL SHIT…but the market is the market.”
“And tbh, 2016 SMV dictates all. The field rules all. The chicks getting treated like 7s are 7s. Sorry. The market has spoken. These appeals to mount Olympus are gay.”
“There are a ton of guys in the manosphere who bitch and moan and say shit like “bro this 3 SLORE wasn’t responding to me! WTF! SOCIAL MEDIA INFLATES THESE CHICKS PAST THEIR ACTUAL WORTH RAAAWR!” Nope. This is the wrong attitude to have. That “3” is a “7” in 2016.
I don’t give a shit why or how it got to be that way, it is what it is.
And when you equate your own personal platonic made up ideals to reality, well….
You’re gonna have a bad time. You’re not going to use the right game. You’re not going to be able to follow the number one rule of the PUA: be cool.”
All of this. The PUA community has gone through a bunch of rating systems because a lot of stuff is subjective (from the 0-1 system to the “anything above an 8 is subjective” system to the “rate her on looks and personality separately” etc etc). And the whole point of the rating for us is just so it’s clear why we’re doing what in our Field Reports (ie – if I say I negged an “HB6 who thinks she’s an HB9”, then my neg was probably calibrated and the FR can be analyzed from the right perspective VS if I say I “negged an HB6” which will sound like I wasn’t calibrated or I “negged an HB9” which would make you think I was gaming an HB9 and put a bunch of traits/labels on her that weren’t there because she was actually just an average chick)
But infield it all basically boils down to these 3 things (but only the 3rd one matters for pickup):
1) what YOU rate her personally based on your tastes
2) what SOCIETY rates her based on overall trends in society (including the thirstiness of guys on social media)
and 3) what SHE rates herself which is BASED ON the feedback/treatment she gets from society and her default internals (which is what Scray is describing when he says “It is the sexual market. Girls ping off their environment, meaning that they are getting POSITIVE FEEDBACK from social media, etc. and whatever else. It’s not just them dreaming it up.”)
Those 3 ratings can be WILDLY different. Some BBW lover can view a fatty as a 10 while society views her as a 2 and she views herself as a 6. You can have a smokeshow hottie you view as a 10, society views as a 10, but she views herself as a 6. You can have a fatty that you view as a 2, society views as a 2, but because of all the feedback she’s getting on social media plus her own delusional internals because she’s an SJW fully steeped in that insane fat = beautiful culture, she can view herself as a 10.
Your personal rating of her is great for telling stories to your buddies and giving eachother props and shit, but it’s COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in terms of how you game her.
Society’s rating of her is great for telling stories and shit, but it’s COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in terms of how you game her EXCEPT that you should be aware of what kind of feedback she’s getting (or likely getting) from society because that will help tell you the only rating that ACTUALLY matters:
How SHE rates HERSELF.
THAT’S the only rating that matters infield and what you calibrate your game to. Everything else is either mental masturbation (either positively, like for bonding with eachother like hank’s original post was probably for, or negatively, like holding guys back (I can’t approach her, she’s out of my league)) or just helps you determine what THIS rating is likely to be (ie – a smokin hot girl you know probably gets lots of positive feedback and probably doesn’t view herself as a 4 BUT YOU HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THE POSSIBILITY that she views herself as a 4 if that’s the behavior she exhibits once you interact with her…and an uggo probably gets negative feedback in society, except in 2016 a WHOLE BUNCH OF UGGOS are getting the same positive feedback a 10 gets, which is fucking everything up and making it so you have to treat an UGGO like an arrogant cocky 10 that needs to be negged etc because HER rating of herself is all that matters).
So in an environment where there are no actual hot girls, just a bunch of fatties, one of those fatties is going to be getting the social feedback and have better internals and view herself as the “hottest” fatty. You game her as if she’s a 10 (or, you know, go to a better environment why are you sarging a fat camp lol), and you game the other fatties as if they’re 4s or whatever, because those are how they view themselves.
“Like, dudes who believe that the “average” woman (OR WORSE) are the best they can do aren’t that uncommon — 80% of dudes.”
This. And this doesn’t even have to do with what they WANT or are sexually attracted to. Their dick WANTS hotter, but they don’t think they can GET hotter because they’ve been socially conditioned to believe looks matter and they can only get girls in their “looks range” etc Just bullshit FI-conditioned nonsense to help weed out the guys who don’t have confidence to approach that hottie (that she wouldn’t be attracted to anyway) from the guys who do. SO a lot of the time they adjust their whole 1-10 scale based on their limiting beliefs. This is why I push guys to talk to HOT girls that they think are OUT of their looks range, so they can get positive feedback and start realizing that their limit isn’t anywhere near as low as society conditioned them to believe.
That’s why at no point in the above rating stuff did I talk about your own rating of yourself or society’s rating of yourself, because it doesn’t matter if you’re pro-actively running game and get your game skills tight like you should be working on. I don’t even know what my rating for myself would be, I’m basically average across the board, probably a 7 or something, I literally don’t even know, maybe a 6 or like a high 7 if you overlook the chub lol? It doesn’t matter at ALL to the point where it’s not even a thing I would invest actual thought into determining lol It’s just not relevant to anything infield.
Anyway Tyler’s infield at 1:30 (I still don’t like Luke’s game btw, he comes off too asexual to me and I rarely see girls actually give him what looks like legitimate sexual attraction, buuut he also runs a different style of game that’s 100% social circle focused where you don’t heavily game the girls in public you just be fun and then isolate a girl at the end of the party and do your “real” gaming in isolation where she has no reason NOT to fuck you and has discretion etc (at 36:40 he talks about leading social circle hangouts to isolation and gaming with Dan Bilzerian and a bit of Dan’s style and he makes good points about how hot girls WANT to talk about dirty sexual topics), but either way Tyler in the infield here is the one I want to make a point about):
At 1:30 Tyler (who’s been purposely getting fat all year (lots of carbs and no gym) so he can make a YouTube channel on fitness where he goes from being fat to in shape lol, so he’s late 30s, almost fully George Costanza balding at this point, 5’8″, nasally voice, retarded insane ginger beard like a homeless man, doesn’t dress in fitted suits with matching pocket-squares etc) pulls a girl that, regardless of where you’d place her on the 1-10 (“I don’t like fake bitches”, “she’s too skinny”, “she sounds dumb” etc) or where you’d place him (he’s not the Chad Thundercock ideal by any means), she is OBJECTIVELY a “hot” girl that’s “out of Tyler’s league”.
He SHOULDN’T be able to get her legitimately attracted to him if we go by what he’s objectively rated on a 1-10 Chad Thundercock scale VS what most of the guys in the bar that night would have rated the girl on 1-10 in the club that night (VS us watching from our computer chairs where we can critique her pointy elbows).
But she’s part of Luke’s social circle so Tyler has built in social proof and he has good subcomms/game/etc but he stresses that he barely has to actually DO anything because of his socially proofed VALUE (just having fun with her at the start (when he’s first dancing behind her you can tell she’s just attention whoring and isn’t really into him), then he focuses on spiking her emotions (A1) until she’s giving A2, tests for compliance with making her lick the other girl’s nipples etc and qualifies her (you can see him talking with her behind Luke and the other girl, clearly getting into more rapport, also lol at the brown guy hanging off Tyler trying to fuck with him lol I think that’s RSD Ryan a former instructor) so he’s building A3, and in the diner he focuses more on lasers and rapport/comfort/qualifying, standard Mystery Method structure in action).
Also lol at his sweaty gross back, bald spot, and being shorter than her as they leave the club at 3:05. Does Tyler look like the type of guy that ANYONE seeing this girl would EXPECT her to go home with? That that’s the natural “looks range” everyone would expect to see? Were there NO more physically attractive guys in the club than Tyler? He was the 10/10 at that venue? A Vegas nightclub where girls dress like that didn’t have any Chad Thundercocks in it?
But would he have gotten her if he passively sat around and played the “let the girl decide based on our looks” game like other good-looking guys in the club did when they saw her? No, she wouldn’t have even noticed him. She’d have done that “grind on Luke’s friend for the cameras” thing and then ignored him the rest of the night.
And he knows how SHE probably views herself on the 1-10 scale, and can narrow that down more accurately from interacting with her, so he games her based on THAT, not based on what he thinks she is or even what society thinks she is (because if she indicates that she’s actually low self-esteem then he would calibrate to her viewing herself as more of a 6, whereas if she acts cocky then he calibrates to her viewing herself more like a 10).
“go out to clubs, try to break in VIP, deal with that shit, open the 21 y/o hotties, do so WITH A STARTING DISADVANTAGE (like yannow, being short lol)…”
lol see SCRAY would find a way to be macking the girls in Luke’s social circle infield there. Because Scray gets that if you’re just a normal dude and you want HOT girls you have to hustle and find ways to get TO them, while most guys wouldn’t even get INTO that club, let alone know how to befriend Luke and get access to those girls…they would just go to the shitty pub down the street with the average crowd and then cry about how women are all fat lol
This goes back to what I said in my Halloween rant which I’m gonna post again before Halloween, but you should ALL be approaching the hottest girls you can find on Halloween because they will be friendly by DEFAULT on Halloween because they’re out purposely trying to draw attention. Fuck whatever you want at the end of the night, but step up and approach the hottest girls and try to push those sets for a Same Night Lay and gather the reference experiences (and potential social connections) to where THOSE girls become a part of what you feel entitled to instead of just what you masturbate to on PornHub lol
Why do I harp on “pro-active” so much? 1:18 is an example from Madison (average height black dude with some crooked teeth):
Whatever you rate this girl and her friends, the ATTENTION they’re getting from decent/good-looking dudes is inflating their value (in that environment in that moment at least). Even the fatty has a tall decent looking dude making out with her. You can rate that girl a 1 if you want, she’s going to think that she can get guys like that and need to be treated based on how she rates herself based on this social feedback and her internals.
While that’s going on a taller better looking guy starts in on Madison’s girl at 2:25, so she’s got guys fighting over her. Again it doesn’t matter if she’s just an average chick to you, in THAT moment she may feel like she’s an 8. You read everything from how she acts, her body-language, how she responds to things, etc for how to calibrate your game.
Now for the pro-active part…that AMOG who comes in walks off looking at his phone so he probably just got her phone number instead of pushing for the Same Night Lay. Then the guy who was making out with the fatty hailed a cab for Madison’s girl and probably the fatty since fatty vanished, she’s probably in the cab too (meanwhile another average girl has two guys, one tall decent-shape lookin dude in the white shirt, still on her).
99% of guys would go “well that’s it, that’s done, they’re getting in a cab, and that guy will probably go with them”. Even that guy isn’t jumping right in. Madison gets her attention and then spikes her Buying Temp and the taller guy realizes he’s gaming her and tries to get her attention back but knowing how to spike a girl’s Buying Temp is how you keep her RAS focused on you and off other guys (which is why I stress learning to do it) and Madison gets the invite to jump in the cab and join them and instead of thinking it over or over-gaming or engaging the AMOG he just instantly jumps through the window of opportunity and they take off with the tall AMOG literally saying “What’s going ON here?!?” as you hear the girls saying “I love this guy (Madison)!!” through his mic lol
Madison is probably objectively not as good looking as some of those guys were. But as long as you’re pro-active that looks shit doesn’t really matter. It makes such an insignificant difference that it’s not worth worrying about.
“Game savvy I would expect his standards to be higher than they were while he was Beta.”
Unfortunately “game savvy” doesn’t equate to “actually having higher standards infield”😦 lol All comes down to the entitlement you develop (which comes from field experience pushing yourself to approach and game hot girls that are above your entitlement level).
“Are docs still marrying nurses these days”
Don’t know if they’re marrying them but they’re fucking the shit out of them lol And why wouldn’t they, they all work retarded hours cooped up in the hospital together and the doctor is basically acting like a boss and treated as high-value by everyone and has preselection as nurses ping off eachother for which guys are attractive etc In the environment those nurses are spending most of their time in, the outgoing cool doctors are basically the top of the hypergamy chain for them. On top of it they’re all going through ups and downs emotionally together with stressful work, long hours, losing patients etc so there’s a lot of fast comfort-building.
But it comes down to the same as always: the nerdy beta doctors are getting classified as potential providers at best or ignored completely and the alpha cool outgoing doctors have nurses jumping on their dick when they all party together (which they do a fuckton, like multiple times a week lol ’cause they have money to burn and can just buy rounds of drinks for all the nurses no fucks given and get them wasted and all go back to whoever’s fancy condo for the afterparty where they can hook up)
Also I’m only talking about young doctors working in dynamic/chaotic hospital environments with young nurses VS like, a 55yo doctor working in a small quiet clinic prescribing ear medication for kids lol That guy would probably have to deal with more legal risks like an office employee would.
“Some people think it’s a waste of mental energy to even consider the first one”
I think Scray is just pointing out that like, a lot of this stuff is just a waste of mental energy and newbies can be affected by that stuff in a negative way, in that it doesn’t do a newbie any good infield to know that like, Scray thinks Jennifer Lawrence is a 10 (or whatever, I forget who said what lol), ’cause if he thought JLaw was a 7 now he’s gonna meet a JLaw and be like “oh man, she’s a 10” and pedestalize her when he shouldn’t. And if he thinks JLaw is a 10 but Scray says “naw she’s a 6 man”, he’s gonna be less proud of himself (and reap less internal entitlement rewards) when he gets her because he only got a 6 by other guys on a forum’s standards, etc etc
Like, I think he’s just pointing out that there’s no real practical benefit to it aside from guys shooting the shit on a forum. But I don’t care if guys are posting pics to rate for fun (which I think is what hank was doing), I have no dog in the fight on either side, I’m just dropping general rating systems related information, none of this is aimed at anyone specific.
“so you can’t choose the HIGH VALUE behavior in every situation unless you can ACCURATELY evaluate each situ, which includes having a good idea of the CURRENT value people place on you.”
Right, what we’re saying when I say “your rating doesn’t matter” isn’t really in conflict. I’m describing the guy who gets his skills to where he CAN accurately evaluate each situation. ie – Tyler walks into Luke’s party not caring whether he’s a 4 or 10, he just knows that he’ll have a certain level of high value by default to the girls by being friends with Luke, so he doesn’t have to do much compared to if he was out solo and crashing someone else’s VIP party where he would have to bust out a ton of game to DHV his way up to where they see him as the same level of high value as he’s seen at Luke’s party.
But to me none of that has to do with his looks rating, it has to do with his value rating to the people he’s interacting with moment to moment. Like whether he’s a 1 or a 10 doesn’t really matter, the 10 guy on Death Row has low value in that moment to the people around him and the 1 guy who’s friends with Luke and DHVs and has preslection etc has high value in that moment to the people around him.
I just always assume that while I’m obviously a 10 (lol), by DEFAULT I have zero value. I’ll HAVE 10 value to ALL of them, when I can DHV enough in front of them to HAVE that value, so my goal in gaming is just to DHV enough to have that value and get the girl. Nice and simple. My actual looks don’t matter. I can stand beside the super good-looking guy choding out on Death Row and we’re both invisible to the girl, and I can enter a set with an uglier guy than me but if he’s more fun and charismatic and sexual etc than me and can get the girls emotionally reacting to him and can get me reacting to him (him being 0.00001% cooler than me) then he’s going to take over the girls’ RAS and get the attraction.
Like, my actual looks rating doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is how these people in this moment perceive my value. My INHERENT value doesn’t even matter, a nerdy quiet doctor who saved a million lives and is rich as shit will still get ignored if he can’t DEMONSTRATE value to the girls and the girls don’t know all that stuff about him. But if I come along and brag for him about that stuff, that helps demonstrate his value to them.
And on the flip side I can be a complete wreck with nothing going for me but if I can demonstrate the things that I know, to this person, in this moment, calibrated to their value system, the environment, etc are “high value”, I’ll be high value. My objective looks rating doesn’t matter (picture the nerd girl rejecting the Chad Thundercock jock for the weird skinny artsy dude because in her value system he demonstrates more high value)
And what do girls value most across the board? More than a 6-pack or money? FEELS lol
“It hit me today that a lot of “counselling” both religious and not religious basically assumes attraction exists. Choreplay is one of their go-to things, at best that is Comfort. In fact, a lot of the stuff counsellors suggest is Comfort. So counselling is like a man running MM who tries to blow past all Attraction stages and cut right to Comfort, how does that work out?”
Yup. Just like “be nice and bring her flowers” is great when you’re so high-value that you intimidate her (aka the guy she pictures when you ask her how a guy can get her, she’s not picturing how can balding ugly Tyler get her), and she would want him to raise her up to his value with compliments pedestalization etc
“But MAP and Rollo’s books are more approachable for most married men.”
Agreed. Those things will make them do the things they’d naturally have been doing the whole time in a pLTR…wait why did they get married in the first place? 😉😉😉 LOLOLOL DONT SHOOT ME EVERY1.
“I can’t find any that I can afford”
Can you do a roommate situation, at least until you can save up for a better place?
Type “RSD LAIR (your city name)” into Google if you have no other options, you might be able to find a PUA who needs a roommate or can hook up a fellow newbie PUA with a place. A lot of us understand the crazy sacrifices we make to get to better cities to game in lol
Plan out how you can ask for an extension incase it comes to that, same as you’d plan out any other routine (put yourself inside their head, try to relate to them and relate your situation to them in a way where they’d understand, etc) VS just winging it.
Also try the RooshV Forum. Someone there might have a place or be connected and able to help you get a place. Use a different account name for all of this so no one can link “hank” to the guy asking for help in X City lol plus they all probably hate me so don’t mention me lol
Sedfast forum guys are good dudes but I don’t know where you could post on there to ask for help, they don’t have a forum for travel/cities/meetups/etc